The renewable energy changes and policy

Sativied said:

Already over 33% of EU budget goes to agricultural subsidies. Which isn’t about feeding people but making profits. More subsidies for farmers is what we call cursing in a church, big no-no. Rather give those to steel factories or chemical industries, at least they create products we need. The effing cunt farmers will have to adjust just like anyone else. If they can’t run a viable or profitable 21st century business, someone else can.

Don’t know about Spain but rarely see a barn in Belgium, NL, Germany that’s not covered already with solar panels.

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Ya might have to strangle them slowly, rather than try to club them to death all at once like the EU appears to be trying! The result is the same in the end, technology and market forces might be their greatest foe in a few years and that can bring anybody down sooner or later. Food is a global business these days and are subject to global economic forces.

DIY-HP-LED said:

Ya might have to strangle them slowly, rather than try to club them to death all at once like the EU appears to be trying!

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That appearance can only be the result of seeing the overreactions of childish entitled cunt farmer vandals and doesn’t come near to describing reality. In no way are their actions useful as a measurement of what is asked of them. They literally had decades already to adjust and innovate. These type of european farmer protests are not a new phenomenon. Nor is governments giving in.

In this corner of europe nearly half of them are millionaires. It’s not about life or dead, not personally, not business-wise. They’re cunt farmers who think they can stop recognizing all laws and all authority when things don’t go their way. They ones you see don’t represent most of them either and many large farmer organizations denounce the violence, the vandalism, the burning of asbestos and tyres, excessive blocking of major roads, and threatening politicians with torches at their homes… just an example. They tested the limits too long, people, governments, are getting pissed and I expect new laws (no protesting in heavy agricultural machinery like tractors) and arrests soon. Which will cause things to escalate some more. Arrest one and the rest comes with a tractor stampede to demand his release. It’s pretty wild.

Sativied said:

That appearance can only be the result of seeing the overreactions of childish entitled cunt farmer vandals and doesn’t come near to describing reality. In no way are their actions useful as a measurement of what is asked of them. They literally had decades already to adjust and innovate. These type of european farmer protests are not a new phenomenon. Nor is governments giving in.

In this corner of europe nearly half of them are millionaires. It’s not about life or dead, not personally, not business-wise. They’re cunt farmers who think they can stop recognizing all laws and all authority when things don’t go their way. They ones you see don’t represent most of them either and many large farmer organizations denounce the violence, the vandalism, the burning of asbestos and tyres, excessive blocking of major roads, and threatening politicians with torches at their homes… just an example. They tested the limits too long, people, governments, are getting pissed and I expect new laws (no protesting in heavy agricultural machinery like tractors) and arrests soon. Which will cause things to escalate some more. Arrest one and the rest comes with a tractor stampede to demand his release. It’s pretty wild.

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I must say … if they can make asbestos burn, they have rare skills.

Sativied said:

That appearance can only be the result of seeing the overreactions of childish entitled cunt farmer vandals and doesn’t come near to describing reality. In no way are their actions useful as a measurement of what is asked of them. They literally had decades already to adjust and innovate. These type of european farmer protests are not a new phenomenon. Nor is governments giving in.

In this corner of europe nearly half of them are millionaires. It’s not about life or dead, not personally, not business-wise. They’re cunt farmers who think they can stop recognizing all laws and all authority when things don’t go their way. They ones you see don’t represent most of them either and many large farmer organizations denounce the violence, the vandalism, the burning of asbestos and tyres, excessive blocking of major roads, and threatening politicians with torches at their homes… just an example. They tested the limits too long, people, governments, are getting pissed and I expect new laws (no protesting in heavy agricultural machinery like tractors) and arrests soon. Which will cause things to escalate some more. Arrest one and the rest comes with a tractor stampede to demand his release. It’s pretty wild.

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We had a similar thing in Canada at the end of the pandemic with self-entitled morons blocking the capitol over nothing but stupidity and propaganda. Then they had a lot of young people with them, because 2 years is forever when you are 18 years old, time is expanded for them, and a lot of living happens in your late teens and 20s. They didn't understand, like the stupider older ones that highways and public health are provincial responsibilities, not federal ones and the border required US cooperation too.

Win in parliament and pass laws, that is it is usually how it is dealt with, meanwhile enforce the laws already on the books and make arrests and start issuing eye watering fines.

Sativied said:

That appearance can only be the result of seeing the overreactions of childish entitled cunt farmer vandals and doesn’t come near to describing reality. In no way are their actions useful as a measurement of what is asked of them. They literally had decades already to adjust and innovate. These type of european farmer protests are not a new phenomenon. Nor is governments giving in.

In this corner of europe nearly half of them are millionaires. It’s not about life or dead, not personally, not business-wise. They’re cunt farmers who think they can stop recognizing all laws and all authority when things don’t go their way. They ones you see don’t represent most of them either and many large farmer organizations denounce the violence, the vandalism, the burning of asbestos and tyres, excessive blocking of major roads, and threatening politicians with torches at their homes… just an example. They tested the limits too long, people, governments, are getting pissed and I expect new laws (no protesting in heavy agricultural machinery like tractors) and arrests soon. Which will cause things to escalate some more. Arrest one and the rest comes with a tractor stampede to demand his release. It’s pretty wild.

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When they spray shit on your streets and parliament, they are spraying shit on all of you which is what parliament stands for and represents.

Sativied said:

That appearance can only be the result of seeing the overreactions of childish entitled cunt farmer vandals and doesn’t come near to describing reality. In no way are their actions useful as a measurement of what is asked of them. They literally had decades already to adjust and innovate. These type of european farmer protests are not a new phenomenon. Nor is governments giving in.

In this corner of europe nearly half of them are millionaires. It’s not about life or dead, not personally, not business-wise. They’re cunt farmers who think they can stop recognizing all laws and all authority when things don’t go their way. They ones you see don’t represent most of them either and many large farmer organizations denounce the violence, the vandalism, the burning of asbestos and tyres, excessive blocking of major roads, and threatening politicians with torches at their homes… just an example. They tested the limits too long, people, governments, are getting pissed and I expect new laws (no protesting in heavy agricultural machinery like tractors) and arrests soon. Which will cause things to escalate some more. Arrest one and the rest comes with a tractor stampede to demand his release. It’s pretty wild.

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They have civil courts there? If someone sprayed pig shit on my street or property, I and my neighbors would sue the fucker for the expense of cleaning it up and for punitive damages, and even in Canada, it would break them, and they would have to sell the fucking farm.

Sure. Not a thing that seems to happen a lot though, farmers generally don’t bother regular civilians that much aside from creating unsafe situations by blocking roads. Usually public property they damage and if they get caught (based on camera footage for example, not like they carry ID and they often remove license plates) and do get a fine or bill they simply share the load. In the hypothetical scenario 1 farmer has to sell the farm, all the others would step in to prevent. There’s no other tribe with the same level of solidarity, and they’re willing to escalate to physical fighting.

Re: truckers, that's the type, but then a tad worse. It's a thing by itself in the media by now: ask a blocked trucker with steam coming out of ears, what he/she thinks of the farmers protesting and blocking the roads. Not to get a genuine opinion, just to test if he/she dares to criticize the farmers. Or better, to show they wouldn't dare.

Sativied said:

Re: truckers, that's the type, but then a tad worse. It's a thing by itself in the media by now: ask a blocked trucker with steam coming out of ears, what he/she thinks of the farmers protesting and blocking the roads. Not to get a genuine opinion, just to test if he/she dares to criticize the farmers. Or better, to show they wouldn't dare.

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The French don't fuck around, they are confiscating tractors and putting them in jail while they do it. The French are like that though.

DIY-HP-LED said:

The French don't fuck around, they are confiscating tractors and putting them in jail while they do it. The French are like that though.

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They’re jailing tractors?

cannabineer said:

They’re jailing tractors?

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One should have inferred the drivers driving the tractors were cuffed and led away.

DIY-HP-LED said:

One should have inferred the drivers driving the tractors were cuffed and led away.

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Yeah but one can never be certain when you say "the French are like that" I mean, French jailing tractors, I heard crazier things.

You'd both be fun at parties in your own signature way.

Side note: Quick search shows me the number of EV tractors and H2 tractors is about the same in NL, dozens, not hundreds. The hydrogen versions are "only" 50% more expensive than diesel versions.

DIY-HP-LED said:

The French are like that though.

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Nobody protests more than the French. It's funny, in most countries people talk first, then protest if talking doesn't work. In French, they start with the protest, and the bigger and badder it gets, the more negotiating power they have. They're overdoing it. Over recent years, with all the damage done, like with the Yellow Vests and retirement age changes, they too are fed up more quickly with vandalism.

Belgium pulled out the water cannons last week. Belgium! You know the number one cliché about Belgium? They are polite. (They also like fries with meat on top of it drenching and soaking the fries... I guess the simulation has only so much room for variation...). Anyway, like I said, it's not exactly a new phenomenon. It's as if they always get more leeway because of the stereotypes: dumb and uneducated and uncivilized backward. Right now, it's more like throwing tantrums. It seems to work more often than not.


Very strange situation. If a farmer gets sick after using glyphosate, he is entitled to compensation for the rest of his life.

"It's lying to the farmers to tell them that everything can be put on pause," she said.

And that lying and pausing has literally been going on for decades. So they're not treated unfairly, it was just the opposite of that for too long.

Basically if you want it your way, act like a pigeon playing chess.


So Von der Leyen killed it. It was part of the Green Deal, which is the brainchild of Frans Timmermans, who didn't get the position Ursula has, who left EU politics last year to return to national politics in NL, running as the leader of the green/labor coalition we hoped would defeat the right and then he would become PM (he still might, far-right + center-right formation collapsed yesterday).

Sativied said:

Basically if you want it your way, act like a pigeon playing chess.

Europe farmers protests: EU scraps plans to halve pesticide use

The announcement appears to be a concession to farmers who have been protesting tighter regulations.

www.bbc.com

So Von der Leyen killed it. It was part of the Green Deal, which is the brainchild of Frans Timmermans, who didn't get the position Ursula has, who left EU politics last year to return to national politics in NL, running as the leader of the green/labor coalition we hoped would defeat the right and then he would become PM (he still might, far-right + center-right formation collapsed yesterday).

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They might want to back off on the farmers for now or provoke them into stupidity and have public support turn against them and hope for the best with the next election. There are lots of things to clean up, road transport, power generation, industry and agriculture where you can.

I dunno about the rethinkX food report, but that Stanford economist Tony Seba has made a study of technological change, and he has been uncannily right about batteries, solar, and EVs. Which causes me to take his fantastical predictions on agriculture seriously, along with the timelines, and if he is right, those farmers are in for a rough ride over the next decade and especially after, as economic forces rock them.

Will The World Give Up European Cars For Made-In-China Electric Vehicles?
China emerged as one of the world’s top car exporters in 2023, powered by its massive push for electric vehicles. Buoyed by years of heavy government investments, subsidies, and manufacturing rebates, Chinese automakers have flooded overseas markets as global EV demand continues to rise. In Q4 2023, China’s BYD even outsold Tesla in sales volume for the first time.

Amid the advent of Chinese brands like NIO and Xpeng, the European Union launched an anti-subsidy investigation into China’s EV trade practices in late 2023. The move prompted swift retaliation from China, sparking concerns about a trade war.

DIY-HP-LED said:

One should have inferred the drivers driving the tractors were cuffed and led away.

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you know me … language is my plaything

cannabineer said:

you know me … language is my plaything

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Me too

DIY-HP-LED said:

Me too

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We all are sometimes.

You know EVs are going mainstream when the trade publicans and car magazines are dominated by EV news and reviews. Here is Motor trend.

Not just America is guilty of short sightedness and blaming China for stimulating their domestic market to go green is stupid. They are done with subsidies now, they did their job, as they would have in America and Europe, but conservatives don't like big government or planning of any kind, they like to take the shit full force in the face and blame others, because the super-rich need more tax breaks and business incentives for CEOs are quarter to quarter, instead of planning and investing for 5 years. If we had done solar, battery and EV subsidies earlier, we could be in the driver's seat now and not them. It's why Americans can't afford Trumps and republicans, or they will end up like the Russians, the Chinese got ahead with smarter policy and telling companies what to do, instead of being bought by them. Now that they are ready to export the subsidies have gone and market forces have taken over, first in their large domestic market with fierce competition and now in the global market.

They are coming in through Mexico and America itself and there is not much that can be done except to adjust the government incentives for new battery tech only, as market forces are about to take over. They are taking over alright, just not in the way a lot of magats think.


MOTORTREND INVESTIGATES China’s EV Takeover of Mexico