How to Read your Plants?

Danielsgb · Apr 27, 2011

boneheadbob said:
Is there anywhere on your threads that you discuss the issue more in depth.
I thought it was "relaxing" that you don't fret over your plants and light leaks. Growing should be rewarding to your mind and soul, not a constant worry in the back of your head.

I love IAm5toned's explanation of light leaks and hermies.
RM3, isn't it something like 3,000 lumens? I'm in the camp of not fretting about light leaks.
Daniels bongsmilie

IAm5toned said:
let me decide it for you man, not trying to be a smart ass about it either...

look out your window at night. is it pitch black? no.
lets pretend you can blame the fact its not pitch black on artificial light pollution (streetlamps, etc etc)
so lets head out into the wilderness... far far into the wilderness. is it pitch black at night? no.
lets head south to some of the tropical latitudes... you'll find that the closer you get to the equator, the brighter the night sky gets. this is really noticeable at sea. not like you'd be growing on a ship, but just for examples sake. you will find that in most of cannabis' natural habitat, the starlight combined with the moonlight is bright enough to read by.
hmmmmmm..... makes you wonder why you don't have hermies in nature occurring on a more regular basis, doesn't it....

hermies caused by light leaks is kind of a myth. but it does happen.
let me explain a little further... bear with me on my layman's terms as well, its just easier for me to explain things in layman's terms to avoid confusion or misinterpretation.
if your growing indoors, its not natural. the normal limiting factors that are present in nature are simply not there in your indoor op. weaker plants that would normally die off in the wild thrive, because you do your best to provide the perfect environment. more often than not, the 'perfect environment' is too much for the plants, its not natural. there's no times of drought or shitty light or extreme temp swings to harden them up. you could compare it to raising a retarded pig and a normal pig, side by side in a closet. both will thrive, because you provide everything for them. however in the wild, its obvious the retarded pig wouldn't make it very far at all... for various reasons.
what this means, is that your prize plant that looks so nice and smells so nice might have the weakest genetics in your entire crop... but you would never know, until something affects your 'perfect environment'... like a light leak... then, and only then, do the weaker genetics become apparent.

its not rocket science folks... its jr high level botany.

rasputin71 · Apr 27, 2011

Danielsgb said:
.... isn't it something like 3,000 lumens? ......

that is a lot of lumens, imo

Illumination · Apr 27, 2011

rasputin71 said:
that is a lot of lumens, imo

I agree as 3000 lumens will grow a plant so almost certainly it would wipe out the flowering hormone

Wolverine97 · Apr 28, 2011

Illumination said:
I agree as 3000 lumens will grow a plant so almost certainly it would wipe out the flowering hormone

Yeah, that number is not right. I found something a while back that explained how many foot candles it takes to break the dark cycle, I don't remember the number but I know it was a lot less than that...
Think of a full moon, that's about the maximum amount of light intrusion anyone should allow.

Danielsgb · Apr 28, 2011

I was hoping RiddleMe would chime in. I remember I also thought 500-1000 lumen was the range, then I was corrected with a good link. I know it seems high, and I asked as a question. I wish I remembered where I saw that, or even what thread.IDK Wolverine97, I agree I also think about moonlight & street lights for a comparison.
I thought it was based on a full moon's lumen, but I didn't look that up earlier. Does anyone know that one?
I remember looking up the photochrome that initiates flowering, but I'd have to re-read it. I just know I don't stress myself out on a tiny light leak.
Daniels

mr.smileyface · Apr 28, 2011

Read your envoirment before the plants. If it is to hot it will look like a N def. Or lights to close will bleach/leach. Hot or cold. to wet or to dry.
Once that is dialed in then look at your ph/ppm and nutrient solution. Too much/ to little. Ratios and etc.
Maybe you have hard water or a few plants are to close to the lights.
I use 1 additive at a time.
The more you knock out the less you have to look at to find out what is wrong. Its not also gonna be a straight pitch so you have to work around the curves.
Its like adding Co2 to your garden and not upping the nutrients. You will seem some defs.
Make a check list of things. write everything you did on paper. feedings and such. temps for that day. You learn much faster when doing this.

mr.smileyface · Apr 28, 2011

Danielsgb said:
I was hoping RiddleMe would chime in. I remember I also thought 500-1000 lumen was the range, then I was corrected with a good link. I know it seems high, and I asked as a question. I wish I remembered where I saw that, or even what thread.IDK Wolverine97, I agree I also think about moonlight & street lights for a comparison.
I thought it was based on a full moon's lumen, but I didn't look that up earlier. Does anyone know that one?
I remember looking up the photochrome that initiates flowering, but I'd have to re-read it. I just know I don't stress myself out on a tiny light leak.
Daniels

One time i relized my light was only on for 11.5 hours so i switched it to 12.12.. biggest mistake ever. Never do that. I could have started a seed bank. Another time my light timer gave out and didnt turn the lights off for three days.. It put them bak in veg and i got hermies.
A stressed plant is more likly to hermie. I mean if the plant is already stress. Light leaks do up stress because the plant doesnt know what to do. That strenght does matter. If your sleeping and a light gets turned on, even tho your asleep doesnt mean you dont know the light is on. If its a HPS or very bright light you will wake up because your like wtf. Hence sunlight wakes you up in the morning.
Dont make it a bad habbit.
Black and white poly and tuckt tape works well. I always go in my room when they are off to check for leaks. I run a flip and vent room to room to keep the plants warm at night. And then vent out of that room to reduce pressure on my doors. But with a smaller fan.
I rapp the ducting with black and white poly and i see a few specles but nothing near as much to hermie a plant.
If you cant see in your room then they cant. Stay in there for a few minutes and look around. If you cant see your hand then your all good.

riddleme · Apr 28, 2011

mr.smileyface said:
One time i relized my light was only on for 11.5 hours so i switched it to 12.12.. biggest mistake ever. Never do that. I could have started a seed bank. Another time my light timer gave out and didnt turn the lights off for three days.. It put them bak in veg and i got hermies.
A stressed plant is more likly to hermie. I mean if the plant is already stress. Light leaks do up stress because the plant doesnt know what to do. That strenght does matter. If your sleeping and a light gets turned on, even tho your asleep doesnt mean you dont know the light is on. If its a HPS or very bright light you will wake up because your like wtf. Hence sunlight wakes you up in the morning.
Dont make it a bad habbit.
Black and white poly and tuckt tape works well. I always go in my room when they are off to check for leaks. I run a flip and vent room to room to keep the plants warm at night. And then vent out of that room to reduce pressure on my doors. But with a smaller fan.
I rapp the ducting with black and white poly and i see a few specles but nothing near as much to hermie a plant.
If you cant see in your room then they cant. Stay in there for a few minutes and look around. If you cant see your hand then your all good.

as I have said many times I do it all the time, the 3000 lumen thing is the approximate minimum for active photosynthesis, though plants response is not actually measured in lumens

anything under 1000 lumens would not cause a reaction from a C3 plant that amount of light is just enough to sustain life (why I use 800 lumens for clones )

only time I ever got active hermies (balls) was when the temp dipped into the 40's and if conditions make the plant thinks it's dying nanners are a normal survival response, like Iam5toned said it's not rocket science

mr.smileyface · Apr 28, 2011

riddleme said:
as I have said many times I do it all the time, the 3000 lumen thing is the approximate minimum for active photosynthesis, though plants response is not actually measured in lumens anything under 1000 lumens would not cause a reaction from a C3 plant that amount of light is just enough to sustain life (why I use 800 lumens for clones )

only time I ever got active hermies (balls) was when the temp dipped into the 40's and if conditions make the plant thinks it's dying nanners are a normal survival response, like Iam5toned said it's not rocket science

Its just stress thats all.

Yeah Right · Apr 28, 2011

Topic shift of sorts. I'm using Smart Pots, the fabric pots designed to let roots breathe and do root pruning. A question or two came up on my journal and a light bulb went clicked on.

What affect, if any do you think squeezing or shifting the pots around to loosen the soil to help aerate? I'd think it might be really beneficial right before a watering. Would you risk damaging the roots. Would it toughen them up? Anyone thought of this?

To hug or not to hug......that is the question.

Wolverine97 · Apr 29, 2011

Yeah Right said:
Topic shift of sorts. I'm using Smart Pots, the fabric pots designed to let roots breathe and do root pruning. A question or two came up on my journal and a light bulb went clicked on.

What affect, if any do you think squeezing or shifting the pots around to loosen the soil to help aerate? I'd think it might be really beneficial right before a watering. Would you risk damaging the roots. Would it toughen them up? Anyone thought of this?

To hug or not to hug......that is the question.

don't do it. You'll tear your roots apart.

rasputin71 · Apr 29, 2011

Agreed, smart pots don't need any help aerating the soil assuming you didn't pack the soil tight when transplanting. The water still pours right through my rootball in my #3's that have been flowering for 50+ days.

Yeah Right · Apr 29, 2011

I don't pack the soil. We keep adding things to make it breathe better, that would be pointless. But.....I'm not so sure on the tearing the roots up. I don't know about the rest of you, but I squeeze the pot to loosen the everything up when I'm up potting. The plants recover fine from that.......

Beansly · Apr 29, 2011

Yeah Right said:
Topic shift of sorts. I'm using Smart Pots, the fabric pots designed to let roots breathe and do root pruning. A question or two came up on my journal and a light bulb went clicked on.

What affect, if any do you think squeezing or shifting the pots around to loosen the soil to help aerate? I'd think it might be really beneficial right before a watering. Would you risk damaging the roots. Would it toughen them up? Anyone thought of this?
To hug or not to hug......that is the question.

I use grow bags and I do it all the time. As long as you don't man handle the bag and aren't a retard about it, it's fine, but I usually only do it when the soil is tight and compacted after repeated waterings.

I can't beleieve were dicussing whether or not light leaks affect grow.
No serious grower allows light leaks in their flower room.
If you must work in the dark hours, get green t5's.
The star and moon arrangement is a moot point, because weed evolved for millions of years w/them, it didn't evolve with light bulbs. And besides, star/moon light isn't strong enough to effect growth.

kevin murphy · Apr 29, 2011

what litre can u get them smart pots in...

cowboylogic · Apr 29, 2011

I often have wondered why a 'light leak' is confused with a brief photoperiod interuption. In my opinion a 'light leak' is a continuous source of light entering an area where its not wanted. Photoperiod interuption is turning a light on during the 'lights off' cycle for a brief period. If the lights are bright enough, and left on long enough, can become a 'light leak'. Just a thought.....

cowboylogic · Apr 29, 2011

Beansly said:
The star and moon arrangement is a moot point, because weed evolved for millions of years w/them, it didn't evolve with light bulbs. And besides, star/moon light isn't strong enough to effect growth.

A full moon on a clear night is more than bright enough to interupt photoperiod. But is only full and bright enough for a few days in its monthly cycle to cause an interuption. Not long enough to cause a hormonal imbalance in the plant. Thats why the moon does not effect our outdoor grows.....

cowboylogic · Apr 29, 2011

[video=youtube;kYvOsnhV6ZY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYvOsnhV6ZY[/video]

Sometimes you just have to shake things up.............

TheLastWood · Apr 29, 2011

Yeah Right said:
I don't pack the soil. We keep adding things to make it breathe better, that would be pointless. But.....I'm not so sure on the tearing the roots up. I don't know about the rest of you, but I squeeze the pot to loosen the everything up when I'm up potting. The plants recover fine from that.......

Have you ever squeezed a regular plastic pot back and forth when you are NOT transplanting? The soil (in my case coco) will not expand again and there will be a crevice on the sides of the rootball that can go down to near the bottom of the pot.

Also, according to "public knowledge" air pockets in soil can create "dead zones" on your medium where roots can't grow because they dry out and die. This is one of those things you hear ppl saying and has become public belief, if its true or not, I don't know. I have no experience with this happening so I can't say for sure. But shifting soil around seems like a good way to create air pockets.

Beansly · Apr 29, 2011

cowboylogic said:
I often have wondered why a 'light leak' is confused with a brief photoperiod interuption. In my opinion a 'light leak' is a continuous source of light entering an area where its not wanted. Photoperiod interuption is turning a light on during the 'lights off' cycle for a brief period. If the lights are bright enough, and left on long enough, can become a 'light leak'. Just a thought.....

I thought that's what we were talking about. Continuous light leaking into a space it's not wanted.
There is a school of thought that believes interrupting the night cycle for an hour at night
produces more females. I read it on sannie's seeds grow help page. I don't have it off hand but if you
really want it I can look for it.

cowboylogic said:
A full moon on a clear night is more than bright enough to interupt photoperiod.

It's really not.
The moon just isn't bright enough on it's brightest night to effect photoperiod. It's been argued to death on a lot of forums...

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