Shrink Concludes that Liberals really are insane - shocking!

Yeah, especially the impossible ones. My dreams would be to have the money going to the government spent on the citizens instead of the military industrial complex. The one thing I liked about Paul the most was his stance on foriegn policy and his shrinking of the MIC. Just doing that would free up enough money to cover every citizen with Medical. Then when you start on the perks to corporations and the tax breaks for sending jobs overseas, all the citizens could be protected and fed and housed. If we are to be the "Greatest Nation On the Planet", we need to start showing the world how we take care of our own. "Charity starts at home"
 
Hidden Agenda said:
You guys throw the word liberal around so much that it means nothing anymore other than an attempted insult.

Rudy? Mccain? Do you think any true liberals would vote for people like them? Do you think fucking mccain could have taken the democratic nomination? To a real liberal, there is nobody in the race to support. Obama may be the closest thing.

What liberal is going to vote for a guy that says he would stay in iraq for 100 years? what liberal is going to vote for mr 9/11? the guy who would do his best this country orwellian? seriously. if you want to liberal bash, at least fucking be consistent and dont use that word every time you disagree with something. the world isn't so black and white.
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i'm using the word in the modern sense, meaning big government, big spending baboons. that's a modern liberal and it's also what the neo-cons are.






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medicineman said:
The only deduction I can make from your posts is that you are a right wing anarchist, and would like to see government go Bye-Bye. The wild wild west all over again, where everyone carries a gun and the baddest meanest quickest on the draw rule. Well, that my friend is not my idea of a perfect world. If I thought everyone was like me, I'd throw away my guns, problem is, they're not, and there are some mean badasses out there, and my .45 makes me equal, as long as I have it in my hand. Unfortunately, there is a need for government. I myself do not like the big brother aspect of it, never did. In fact, I have been pissed off at government for longer than you have been alive. I totally blame them for my younger brothers death at an early age, (Viet Nam). But in my view the prime reason to have a government is for it to take care of it's people. We pay in so we can assure our safety and well being. That includes such things as Medical and food and lodging for the underclass. If you make more from this wonderful Capitalism system you should contribute more to the running of the country that made it possible for you to accumulate this wealth. The current government is totally out of control however and needs revamping.
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Government should not run our lives. We the people need to start running the government again.
 
medicineman said:
Yeah, especially the impossible ones. My dreams would be to have the money going to the government spent on the citizens instead of the military industrial complex. The one thing I liked about Paul the most was his stance on foriegn policy and his shrinking of the MIC. Just doing that would free up enough money to cover every citizen with Medical. Then when you start on the perks to corporations and the tax breaks for sending jobs overseas, all the citizens could be protected and fed and housed. If we are to be the "Greatest Nation On the Planet", we need to start showing the world how we take care of our own. "Charity starts at home"
Click to expand...

i see red every time i hear about another 100 billion dollars being thrown away on AIDS in some backward country when we have people starving in our own borders. i can't stand that kind of disgusting public relations crap.




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7xstall said:
that sounds like someone who doesn't want to help people. :) could be left or right.





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Conservatism is a term used to describe political philosophies that favor tradition and gradual change, where tradition refers to religious, cultural, or nationally defined beliefs and customs. The term is derived from the Latin, com servare, to preserve; "to protect from loss or harm". (fuck you, I've got mine) Since different cultures have different established values, conservatives in different cultures have differing goals. Some conservatives seek to preserve the status quo or to reform society slowly, while others seek to return to the values of an earlier time, the status quo ante.
 
7xstall said:
that sounds like someone who doesn't want to help people. :) could be left or right.





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Click to expand...
Conservatism is a term used to describe political philosophies that favor tradition and gradual change, where tradition refers to religious, cultural, or nationally defined beliefs and customs. The term is derived from the Latin, com servare, to preserve; "to protect from loss or harm". (fuck you, I've got mine) Since different cultures have different established values, conservatives in different cultures have differing goals. Some conservatives seek to preserve the status quo or to reform society slowly, while others seek to return to the values of an earlier time, the status quo ante.
 
7xstall said:
that sounds like someone who doesn't want to help people. :) could be left or right.





.
Click to expand...
Conservatism is a term used to describe political philosophies that favor tradition and gradual change, where tradition refers to religious, cultural, or nationally defined beliefs and customs. The term is derived from the Latin, com servare, to preserve; "to protect from loss or harm". (fuck you, I've got mine) Since different cultures have different established values, conservatives in different cultures have differing goals. Some conservatives seek to preserve the status quo or to reform society slowly, while others seek to return to the values of an earlier time, the status quo ante.
 
what's that you say sonny boy?

lol, wow. 3 times!

protecting from loss or harm isn't the same as fuck you, i've got mine. that means you aren't wasteful. you conserve so you have something when needs arise. if you think conservatives aren't generous you need to get out more, the Southern Baptist convention gives more domestic disaster aid than every other private charity in the US, only the Red Cross gives more. they also top the international lists for aid. tell me about some of the top "liberal" aid groups... lol

also, i thought it was considered "reactionary" to want to go back in time/Amish??




.
 
7xstall said:
i'm using the word in the modern sense, meaning big government, big spending baboons. that's a modern liberal and it's also what the neo-cons are.






.
Click to expand...

granted they are both big spenders, but at least the true liberals have good intentions and are idealistic. even if their ideas will not work in our society


neo-cons are just there to grab power, take away rights and liberties, and push our agenda on the rest of the world

just because they are both differing from your beliefs does not make them the same. i can sympathize with a lot of liberal beliefs. in a perfect world they would be perfect. in our world, not so much. sad but true

I am staunchly FOR gun rights and very little to no gun control. i believe the 2nd amendment was put there to protect ourselves from tyranny, and i cannot understand why the liberal crowd isn't starting to open their eyes to this. after the past 8 years, i am surprised every left leaning person doesnt have a freshly stocked gun safe installed in their house.

that is where i started straying from my very left leaning beliefs. i believe that a lot of them really do think the world would be better. i do think the world would be great if weapons were not needed. once again, that perfect world mentality. Until the perfect world exists, ill keep myself protected from the chance of a very bad world.

Even Ron paul had good things to say about dennis kiucinich. he said even though they disagreed on a lot of policy, that he believed dennis was a great person and defended the constitution as best as he understood it.

It's not even about the issues for me anymore so much, as long as a few key things are in line with me and the words LIBERTY and CONSTITUTIONAL are there, all i look for is corruption. The system is fucked
 
Hidden Agenda said:
granted they are both big spenders, but at least the true liberals have good intentions and are idealistic. even if their ideas will not work in our society


neo-cons are just there to grab power, take away rights and liberties, and push our agenda on the rest of the world

just because they are both differing from your beliefs does not make them the same. i can sympathize with a lot of liberal beliefs. in a perfect world they would be perfect. in our world, not so much. sad but true

I am staunchly FOR gun rights and very little to no gun control. i believe the 2nd amendment was put there to protect ourselves from tyranny, and i cannot understand why the liberal crowd isn't starting to open their eyes to this. after the past 8 years, i am surprised every left leaning person doesnt have a freshly stocked gun safe installed in their house.

that is where i started straying from my very left leaning beliefs. i believe that a lot of them really do think the world would be better. i do think the world would be great if weapons were not needed. once again, that perfect world mentality. Until the perfect world exists, ill keep myself protected from the chance of a very bad world.

Even Ron paul had good things to say about dennis kiucinich. he said even though they disagreed on a lot of policy, that he believed dennis was a great person and defended the constitution as best as he understood it.

It's not even about the issues for me anymore so much, as long as a few key things are in line with me and the words LIBERTY and CONSTITUTIONAL are there, all i look for is corruption. The system is fucked
Click to expand...

"Good intentions" never fed a hungry child.:mrgreen: As for all your "hopes" (peace and love for all of humanity), they never accomplished anything, either. Peace is achieved after victory, which requires action.
 
medicineman said:
The only deduction I can make from your posts is that you are a right wing anarchist, and would like to see government go Bye-Bye. The wild wild west all over again, where everyone carries a gun and the baddest meanest quickest on the draw rule. Well, that my friend is not my idea of a perfect world. If I thought everyone was like me, I'd throw away my guns, problem is, they're not, and there are some mean badasses out there, and my .45 makes me equal, as long as I have it in my hand. Unfortunately, there is a need for government. I myself do not like the big brother aspect of it, never did. In fact, I have been pissed off at government for longer than you have been alive. I totally blame them for my younger brothers death at an early age, (Viet Nam). But in my view the prime reason to have a government is for it to take care of it's people. We pay in so we can assure our safety and well being. That includes such things as Medical and food and lodging for the underclass. If you make more from this wonderful Capitalism system you should contribute more to the running of the country that made it possible for you to accumulate this wealth. The current government is totally out of control however and needs revamping.
Click to expand...

Well, there's the difference between a liberal and a conservative/libertarian.

You, Med, consider yourself to be one of "government's people," while I, and others here in the forum consider ourselves to be OUR OWN PEOPLE. I/we are NOT owned by some imaginary vision called "Government," "The State," or "The Supreme Leader." I/we answer only to God and our own conscience. In case you didn't know ... its called liberty and freedom.

Continue to lick the hand of those who feed you Med. As for me, my family and my friends ... we opt not to live on the Federal Plantation as the slaves of bureaucrats in Washington D.C.

And by the way, on the Fair Tax ... do a little research on the subject so you won't sound so ignorant when speaking or writing about it.

Vi
 
medicineman said:
Yeah, especially the impossible ones. My dreams would be to have the money going to the government spent on the citizens instead of the military industrial complex.
Click to expand...
That would be the dream of every knowledable conservitve as well, with one small difference. The money now going to the Federal Gavernment to pay for the Military Industrial Complex and that would have to include most of the prison industry as well. would be retained by the citizens so they can provide for thier own needs in a free market society. We can not afford to police the world when we have people that need help in our own country.

The one thing I liked about Paul the most was his stance on foriegn policy and his shrinking of the MIC. Just doing that would free up enough money to cover every citizen with Medical.
Click to expand...
Just doing that would save enough money to end the IRS. All of the 'Income tax we pay is illegal. The constitutuion never consider wages as income. We have covered that before.

Then when you start on the perks to corporations and the tax breaks for sending jobs overseas, all the citizens could be protected and fed and housed. If we are to be the "Greatest Nation On the Planet", we need to start showing the world how we take care of our own. "Charity starts at home"
Click to expand...

Now you really need to take a step back and think about this for just a minute. If you pay folks to not work then you get people that can't find jobs. Period. We are not and never were the greatest nation because we take care of our own. We were a Great Nation because of the freedom we had to do what we wanted as long as we weren't harming any one else.
We had lots of area and lots of natural resources, or the indians did until we stole it from them. We built this country on cheap labor, starting with indentured servants and apprentices, graduating to slave labor, and the every Nationality you can name, Chinese, Japanese, Irish, Germans, Mexicans the list goes on.
We let the money people pass laws to protect themselves and thier interest at the expense of the masses, really starting with the railroads and the then debt of the 'Civil War'. The northern Industrialists made out like bandits, because thats what they were. Did you know we are the only country that ended slavery with a war. The other countries did it by changing laws.
The problem with government programs is simple, There is no profit motive. Now before you stop listening when I say that let me explain. Did you know the Bureau Of Indian Affairs spends more money in August and September than they soend the rest of the year, wanna guess why? Because they don't really need to buy anything, they do need to spend all of there budget or it will get cut. That would mean folks would actually have to work and earn thier money. 1/2 of the Medical care in this country is already paid for by 'The Federal Government'. Whenever you get ready to say what the federal government should pay for and provide, reach back and pat your wallet, thank yourself for being a good doobie that works and pays taxes, so many that all the money you earn goes to pay taxes until the end of May, almost 1/2 the year. And guess what, all of the money collected in income taxes won't pay the interest on tha National Debt that creates a false economy. Were do you think this $100,000,000,000.00 stimulus package is coming from, they are going to borrow the fookink money. YOU CAN'T BORROW YOUR WAY OUT OF DEBT. I hope we are learning at least that much from the 'Crisis' in the housing market and the fed is going to drop the interest rate??? If I wnet to Vegas and layed my accumulation on the crap table and lost it should anyone have to bail me out. Of course not. So why should I pay taxes to bail out a lender that made a bad loan and a home buyer that overspent thier income. Doing so cuts the supply available for me to purchase, so mine will cost more. You rolled the dice you lost, end of story. Let the price get cut in half. maybe I can afford one.
Why are government services being privitized. Because private industry with a profit motive can do it for less? Local government, local control, more accountablity. And who benefits under the current system?? Its not the average tax payer its the ones that had the money to loan. You and I quarantee they will get thiers. Bullshit. Stop sending my money to Isreal and the giving three times that amount of aid to the Arab countries. Like they really need our money. Dude American Business Interest doesn't feed my family. They gambled, they went to a foriegn country and invested thier money, they won for a long time and then the countries started to realize they were going to run out of resources and would need to have money to trade for what they needed. Of course the price of oil went up, that is what happens in a free market. I would rather pay $5.00 a gallon for gas and not have to pay to police the world. it would be much cheaper. Were do you think American Service Men stationed in friendly foriegn countries spend thier money? I would rather have them spend it in every town along the Us-Mexican border, than to patrol the boarder of Japan.

Now in case you need another example of what an idiot I can be let me put this one out there. You want to know why the so called 'health care' is so expensive? Because we have 'Health Insurance that 'pays for it'. When did the cost of Prescription Drugs go through the roof? When the Autoworkers negoitiated $3.00 Prescription co-pay. What the autoworkers got the Government Employees get, that's all Postal Employees, All Federal, State and County/ Municipality workers. All Corrections Department, Police, fire etc. etc. Control of abuse is a joke. Folks were getting hooked on uppers and downers, who cares the "Insurance Company is paying for it". THERE AIN'T NO FREE LUNCH. I don't mind paying for mine and once in a while I might even feed the kids, I don't think I should 'have to' feed anyone else's. Do you?
Who is the largest consumer of goods and services. The Federal Government. It costs me more to buy it because I have to compete with the government. I can't buy ad space because the federal government and the lottery and the casinos and drunk drivers and three million drug company ads have been sold and it costs too much. There is a radio ad I am helping to pay for know that asks me if I'm gonna use a clean needle and wear a condum. Why? Do I need to start using needles?
A few ideas.
You know the definition of a boat? Its a whole in the water you throw money in. Thats what more government involvment is like. We, as a country, have been led into TRILLIONS OF DOLARS OF DEBT to sustain Progams that are a complete waste of money.
We need to understand that the coorporation exist for one reason, that is to shelter income and avoid taxes. This 'Income' is what the founding fathers allowed to be taxed. The profits of doing business "is Income". You are making money off someone else's effort. Nothing wrong with that as long as I get to keep my wages. And you walking away with $30 or $40 Million dollars in wages because we are paying taxes on our wages, an illegal tax. That ain't right Homes. Do you see how insidious this is Med.
Do you realize how many jobs in this country are created by sole propiertorships. About 70%. What would it mean if all the corporations left. The vacuum would be filled by the competent displaced workers, they would start local companies. They will find a want and fill it.
We used to talk about American Enginuity, now we talk about our refi, and how the credit card companies are abusing us, putting us not just in debt but debt is all around us. OVERSPENDING IS THE PROBLEM. The Credit Card Debt is the result of an action taken by the card holder.
Is the IRS ruining your life? I always answer Yes. Now there is a way out. You have to owe over ....whatever... we have saved...blah, blah, balh. Not paying your taxes is ruining your life, the Irs and thier bullshit just compounds it. Who Pays for that savings. We do we accumulate more debt. And the bankers just laugh and count our money that they loaned us. You really need to look at the whole package. Any Monopoly as big as our Federal Government would be broken up by the courts. VV
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ViRedd said:
Well, there's the difference between a liberal and a conservative/libertarian.

You, Med, consider yourself to be one of "government's people," while I, and others here in the forum consider ourselves to be OUR OWN PEOPLE. I/we are NOT owned by some imaginary vision called "Government," "The State," or "The Supreme Leader." I/we answer only to God and our own conscience. In case you didn't know ... its called liberty and freedom.

Continue to lick the hand of those who feed you Med. As for me, my family and my friends ... we opt not to live on the Federal Plantation as the slaves of bureaucrats in Washington D.C.

And by the way, on the Fair Tax ... do a little research on the subject so you won't sound so ignorant when speaking or writing about it.

Vi
Click to expand...

You know, i agree with you guys on most issues. I am way for personal liberties and all of that. The fact of the matter is that the liberal crowd right now is WAY more fiscally conservative than the "conservatives" in power.

And believe it or not, a lot of the liberals, when they actualy hear your plans explained to them in well thought out complete ideas intending to show them that you do agree with them on a lot of things, instead of just going after them calling them ignorant liberal communists all the time.

Face it, the libertarians have more in common with the libs right now than the current conservatives. Im all for fiscal conservatism. i think it's great. however, socially, im liberal as all hell. dont impose your moral or religious beliefs on me. live and let live. LIBERTY. and the way i see things, the liberals are trying to restore more of our liberties than the "conservatives" are at this point.

give me a good choice, and ill make it.

huckabee wasnt a good choice, fair tax or not, actually coming off as eloquent or a real person, being for gun rights... the guy doesnt believe evolution is real, he probably doesnt believe photosynthesis occurs
 
The concept of a "trillion:" If you started a business the same year Christ was born and lost one million dollars a DAY, you'd still have 750 years to go before you lost a trillion dollars.

Vi
 
Well VV, maybe in an Ideal world we could stop paying taxes and everyone could live free, uhhh like in 1780 or so, but that is not reality and you will never get rid if the infernal IRS. So lets try and make the assholes quit spending the money on war and corporate welfare, and start by making sure all our "citizens" are taken care of, and that includes incentives for people to start businesses and put everyone available to work. I personally don't think there are enough jobs to go around, no matter what kind of incentives there are, with all the illegals, the imported h1b workers and the continous offshoring, the livable wage jobs are shrinking faster than a post orgasm hardon. And that is another thing. No-one can ever get on their own with a minimum wage job, it's a rediculous proposition. Those wages should only be for teenagers and not as a last resort for an unemployed steel worker, or Auto worker. The unemployment rate foisted on us by the government is a fucking joke. It's not 5-6%, but rather more like 25%, if you count all the displaced workers that haven't found jobs. Take a town like Youngstown Ohio. When the large steel and other industries shut down, where did those people go to find work? there are still some of them there living on the streets. I think the rest came to Vegas.., Now even Vegas, that great welcomer of all, has started to decline into this recession the precurser of the next great depression. New housing starts are falling like a rock and now even the illegals are losing their jobs. Home Depot parking lots look like a Mexican fiesta with 50-100 illegals all milling around and being parasitic, As I drove by about 30 of them were yelling at me to give them a job, wow, just because I drive a pickup, I guess. At least if the great depression comes, the illegal population will shrink, or they will all become Banditos. I think the capacity for that is there already.
 
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