LED Comparisons?

I love gpw...

Falls right in line with kiss

Gpw just told you that you need to fill your canopy more..lol. Or get a dimmer and run less watts when your canopy is less full

It's good for using as a yardstick for your own grow room and growing skills IMO, like how many gpw for a certain strain under a specific light or how many gpw do you get if you run these clones at 78F and then a new set of clones at 86F. Things like that it's great for but once you start to increase variables, different panels, different rooms, different strains, different medium, yada, yada, yada, then it gets fuzzy till the point of useless.

SupraSPL said:

Sounds like an awesome project, I think you will be happy with the 3000K Cree XML2s in the Onyx Bloom.

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Well since I will be keeping everything a constant expect for the lights and the fact room will be sealed to keep CO2 levels near 1500ppm.

I don't think the space will require a mini split don't anticipate that much heat, do plan on the need for dehumidifier since moisture will build up with air not cycling out or mini split to cool, so there is the lights, their fans, circulating fans (2) and dehumidifier and air scrubber fan. The heat generated in that space I am hoping to keep cool by keeping the room the sealed grow room is part cool by first running a smaller scrubber then exhausting into the attic, the attic should have enough ventilation with the multiple vents on the roof to let heat rise out and should help keep house warmer during winter.
Second since I will be sealing the window in the room and it will not be convenient to open close for fresh air, I have a 6 inch duct through the floorboard leading under the house where air is cooler to draw from. Don't worry I've got it screened with panty hose (not sure whose hose) so good there.

My backup is a portable air cooler in the adjacent room so soon I will learn what the temp has to be in veg room slash house to keep sealed grow room optimal. Since my only space I have ever had to grow in all these years was either a 2x2 or 2x3 this is like going from a studio apartment to a 5 bedroom 3 bath with basement house on a nice lot.

Can't wait to document and post project build, negotiation with re-seller has gone will have a little extra cash for some additional equipment needed... ie dehumidifier... and suggestions for that size space?

DankSwag
As of 20 after the hour I am now a proud owner of 4 yes 4 Onyx Bloom lights. Can't wait to deck out the grow room with them.

Awesome can't wait to see them in action!

Damm lights came today and I missed them, they weren't supposed to be here till tomorrow anywise. Well can't wait till tomorrow, hopefully they'll arrive before my afternoon entrepreneur class.

DankSwag

DANKSWAG said:

Damm lights came today and I missed them, they weren't supposed to be here till tomorrow anywise. Well can't wait till tomorrow, hopefully they'll arrive before my afternoon entrepreneur class.

DankSwag

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Well my lights are here and wow, bright as the sun. Took me a few moments baked to get how the hanging kit assembles. Very well crafted can't wait to put them to use.

Speaking of my room, it is coming along slowly as I am a one man band on this gig. Like it that way as in I will ensure it is up to my code and won't have to waste time convincing someone to do it the way I want it. Not to mention having to go back and redo poor craftsman ship.

So the room was a pile had to boot someone to get it but damm it is coming along.
I have cleaned and prepped the walls for fresh satin white paint. I sprayed mold remover and applied a product with crab chittin in it that is supposed to prevent mold on these walls as well and will get started painting after I post for the products have dried.

Now keep in mind as you look at pics, this is an 10.x10.5 with attached 2x4. From left to right (10.5L) at far right corner is entry door 3 feet wide 2.5 deep opening into space consuming 8sqft (urgh) well have to seal bedroom door from hall as this is where air exchange could happen lowering CO2 ppm. I have opted to employ the entire space as "SEALED" meaning not just the flower area of 5(l) x 10(w) that begins from far left and works toward middle of room where a panda sheet divider with frame will segment it off from the next 5.5 of length with 10 feet deep space. Looking from the door entry at right corner across the room in the middle of the wall that runs a 10.5 length is a window which will be sealed as well. At the right end of the wall is where the attached space of a former closet of 2x4 will be utilized in the veg\clone portion of this room.

Which works well for it allows me to place AC portable of which I will vent heated moisture through sealed duct work into some kind of catch to recycle the 02 and if need be vent heat elsewhere for use. In any fashion room should stay sealed for keeping air exchange out and CO2 levels high. The flower room will house the CO2 and will be delivered top down over canopy during light cycles. Two circulating fans will keep air flow moving, air filter and fan in flower room will exhaust out over the top of veg room where ac will be across from it to cool and dehumidify room. There were be air vents at the bottom of the panda sheet divider across it to allow cool air to come. Thus I may not need a dehumidifier but ordered one in case. The entire room with closet is 113 square feet so I am thinking the AC I have with its BTU rating should do the trick. Hopefully the entire grow area being in one room divided by a light barrier that allows exchange of air between spaces in the sealed room will provided consistent stable environment of which even the veg room will benefit from CO2 being used in divided space in same sealed room. Will that increase veg growth it may and I may have to recalculate cloning and mainline training to accommodate. I am hoping they will eat it all up first in the flower as it is dispersed before it enters veg space.

Warning pictures of crude room being formed together early stages. However confirmation of Onyx Bloom lights. 4 Going into a 5x10 space. I have them spaced at 19 and 3/16th spacing between units and edge of canopy lengthwise and centered at 30 inches of the 5 foot width. My plant footprint appears to be looking like 4 across 3 deep each light staggered off center of light, thinking of 5 across to get 15 but 12 in this space should do just fine I am thinking.
Yes a package of 4 --- FREAKING SWEET!

[/ATTACH]

Look familiar, Anyone? Oh boy I get to mount power supplies... (that's what she said) outside the flower room. Looks like I will use pvc as pipe conduit.
This is far left wall from which flower room will extend across 5 feet from.
Yes the sky blue with a hint of clouds will remain as I will paint this wall to start, tear out carpet bellow extending out to 5 and half feet to start working on ensuring sub floor will hold up to passive hydroponic reservoir system and will need to seal floor with anti mold bacteria fungal product before applying a 6 mil ply plastic. Notice on masking tape where I have marked off each unit and it spacing, you can tell there will be a hella lota light shining down on my babies. Can't wait to get flower room painted, sealed, with panda film framed for divider, reservoir system in with other environmental equipment then lights and then my babies.

DankSwag

Hey Supra,

What a day... okay you all have seen the room somewhat that is the left side wall that I will be measuring five feet out from to enclose in panda film and a divider frame from the rest of the room (5.5 x 10) with an open closet area attached next to right side wall near outside facing wall with window that is 10.5 feet long. You've seen the top where I had measured across the paint line where the 4 Onyx Bloom lights will be spaced evenly across 120 inches along that plane.

Well the walls needed cleaning, treating and painting. The carpet needed to be ripped out and sub floor treated (prepped using an shallec that will keep mold mildew bacteria at bay and examined to ensure sturdy enough before laying down 6 mil poly sheeting for the floor. I was thinking of putting that 3/8 insulator board down on top then a 1/4 inch plywood to provide insulated floor, not sure if any real benefit other then a little more comfy when walking on it. If I do any flooring it would have to be some sort of tile obviously laminante wouldn't hold up to water issues.

Well regarding the flower section of the room it is essentially ready for me to start putting in the poly for the walls and floor, just have to clean up and prep floor a little more. Once done and panda film up and divider in then all the equipment can be installed and setup to flower baby yeah groovy man!

ROOM PICS

Walls cleaned painting began while still removing carpet and pad. Still need to remove board on floor to make even for new flooring.

This back wall is 10 feet now painted and will be part of the 10 x 5 flowering room being created. Starting to come into shape.


Here is a look at the inside wall from the right corner to the other end where door is measures 10.5 feet. The first five feet from the right where carpet is removed will be work the 10 x 5 flower room. Coming together slowly but surely.



Here is a view from the door way looking into the room.

OKAY NOW FOR SOMETHING REALLY INTERESTING
PHOTOS of ONYX LIGHT and DORM GROW LIGHT IN SAME SPACE
VERY INTERESTING


ONYX BLOOM (250 watt) next to DORM GROW 450 (280 watt draw)
I paid much less for the ONYX then the DORM GROW and so far it appears to be the better light.

Looking at them from the other direction
Solo Dorm Grow 450

Solo Onyx Bloom...

This is going to be fun

DankSwag

Awesome 840W of Cree XML2, that ought to get you some nugs!

SupraSPL said:

Awesome 840W of Cree XML2, that ought to get you some nugs!

Click to expand...

Supra,

Shouldn't I be getting 1000w 4x250watts? Debating how to position these across the space for maximum coverage.
Right now I am thinking run the across the 10 feet length positioned 19 3/16th inches apart from wall edges and each other.
As you know the lights themselves are 6 x 13 inches. So I was going to placed them so longer side of light is perpendicular to wall that extends 10 feet.
That is the 13 inch of light will be centered at 30 inches covering the 5 feet width of flowering room.

Alternatively I could turn the lights so that the 13 inch length runs parallel to the long 10 feet wall and stagger them off center (30 inch mark of the 5 foot width) this would kind of look like two rows of two lights staggered of each other...

___________ ______________

--------------------------- ----------------------------

Anywise looking forward to this...

DankSwag

Yes power draw should be about 1000W but LED dissipation should be about 840W. HPS growers typically measure grams/W based bulb dissipation so when I calculate gr/W I go by LED dissipation also. I also use dissipation wattage converted to $/PAR Watts to compare the actual cost of each lamp.

Some LED drivers are only 85% efficient and some are up to 94% efficient. Same thing with HPS ballasts soe are 90% some are up to 95%. So for comparison purposes it makes sense to take the drivers losses and fan losses out of the equation (for now).

SupraSPL said:

Yes power draw should be about 1000W but LED dissipation should be about 840W. HPS growers typically measure grams/W based bulb dissipation so when I calculate gr/W I go by LED dissipation also. I also use dissipation wattage converted to $/PAR Watts to compare the actual cost of each lamp.

Some LED drivers are only 85% efficient and some are up to 94% efficient. Same thing with HPS ballasts soe are 90% some are up to 95%. So for comparison purposes it makes sense to take the drivers losses and fan losses out of the equation (for now).

Click to expand...

Supra,

What light meter would you recommend for measuring available light for photosynthesis?
Also is there a meter you'd recommend for measuring a device watt draw?

DankSwag

would be great if theses lights were a little larger...

Unfortunately most light meters within a reasonable price range are unable to report absolute values accurately because they cannot see all colors equally and the sensors are not reference quality. They can only be used for qualitative comparisons of light sources with the exact same spectrum. So you can go as cheap as $20 on eBay and get a decent meter for simple comparisons or to keep track of lumen depreciation of a lamp or bulb. But if you want a meter that can report actual photons from a variety of spectra, it starts at $5000 before I would trust the numbers.

@Greengenes707 might be able to add to that though.

For Watts, check these out:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E945SJG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A20H555M9MROEP

I havent tried that exact meter but I have one like it.

SupraSPL said:

Unfortunately most light meters within a reasonable price range are unable to report absolute values accurately because they cannot see all colors equally and the sensors are not reference quality. They can only be used for qualitative comparisons of light sources with the exact same spectrum. So you can go as cheap as $20 on eBay and get a decent meter for simple comparisons or to keep track of lumen depreciation of a lamp or bulb. But if you want a meter that can report actual photons from a variety of spectra, it starts at $5000 before I would trust the numbers.

@Greengenes707 might be able to add to that though.

For Watts, check these out:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E945SJG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A20H555M9MROEP

I havent tried that exact meter but I have one like it.

Click to expand...

Thanks Supra,

I got that watt meter in my cart from poking around on amazon after I posted my inquiry on what to get...LOL

So I screwed myself though I had enough panda film for the job, not so.now to decide to spend extra on shipping, yeah I freaking needed it yesterday.
Still got the floor in front of me needing to take out tack strips and staples for carpet mat in floor and final floor clean prep and use a shellac base primer to seal the sub floor to protect it, then lay down panda on the floor and tack with staples 8 inches off the floor up the wall, then border that in with 1x2 around the three existing walls then once divider wall framed in tack the floor poly to that and reinforce on divider with another 1x2 stretching down the tacked poly sandwiching the poly between them. Then I will cut out each panda sheet for each wall and seal seams with duck tape and tack 1x2 wood boarder down the seams in corners and build along top as well to provide a inner frame to work with for building out the room to accommodate equipment installation.

I am hoping to allow for design of scrog set up if I get tired of my current mainline technique

Right now my main concern is light orientation within the 10x5 space with these 4 6inch by 13 inch lead panels.
I want to ensure optimal coverage through out the space as I position 12 3 gallon buckets.

The panels have a great low profile and excellent rigging my height for room is at 92.5 inches, by my calculations I should be able to max plant height at 4 and half feet, this allows room for the planter, led panel with minimal ceiling clearance and 16 inches max from canopy, The container accounts for 1.5 inches, 7 inches for led fixture and minimal hanger distance, if i take off 18 inches instead of 16 for distance from canopy this leaves 54 inches or four and half feet of tree to grow. I may do better with a scrog something I will keep in mind as I build out this room.

DankSwag

Apogee mx-200. It is a PAR meter and measure photons in micro moles(intensity/ppfd)...but won't measure spectrum if that is what you want. It's basically the same to what a 5000$ spectroradiometer says for intensity. Some red blue panels can have a larger margin of error...but the white are the closest to the spectoradiometer.

Watts I just use a basic watt meter.

spazatak said:

would be great if theses lights were a little larger...

Click to expand...

Spazatak,

I am hoping in the space I have it, they will be large enough considering 4 of them will cover the landscape of 50 square feet (10x5 room)
DankSwag

DANKSWAG said:

Thanks SuperaSPL,

I am a frugal bastard and I think I saw your post on DIY LED. When have the time I'd very much like to build my own. I'm working on getting a used Area 51 SG160 cause I'd like to compare. I know I need to get a watt meter and light tools, just can't do that right now but would like to do so to compare watts. I certainly don't what to use more watts then necessary to obtain good yields and if my DormGrow is using electricity less efficiently then the makes you mentioned I will have no objection to replacing them.

But as you can see if my watt draw is truly at 246 or below this is damm good results in 2x2 tent. Harvest was just completed, awaiting for buds to dry, they are so damm sticky making trimming a bitch but ain't complaining about all the scissor hash. I will have dry weight to share by end of week.

DankSwag

Click to expand...

A 1000w hps will cover 4 x 4. 4 of those will cover a 4 x 4, using 984 watts. I'm not seeing the efficiency gain.

(4) Onyxs should outyield a 1000HPS significantly. The LEDs are dissipatiing 840W at 30% efficiency and the HPS is dissipating 1000W at 35% efficiency. Sounds like the HPS should win, but because of large reflector/glass losses and less than ideal HPS spectrum, the LED wins. That is how @Greengenes707 matched his 1000 HPS with the AT600. That is how I replaced 2400W of HPS with less than 1200W of LED.

How many sq ft will your canopy be DS? (Sry bad memory). If it is a 10X5 canopy, that gives you 17W/sq ft which is too low IMHO and will probably not give you an even spread either. With a 30% lamp I would recommend at least double that intensity.

Red1966 said:

A 1000w hps will cover 4 x 4. 4 of those will cover a 4 x 4, using 984 watts. I'm not seeing the efficiency gain.

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I am using four to cover two 4x4 areas within a 10x5 room.'

Essentially two sets of 6 plants under two of these lights each, four lights for 12 plants that is what we discussed weeks back before I got these. That I didn't have 4k for 2 AT600,

@Supra
I guess if I need to I can add another, but with these lights having 19 and 3/16th inches of distance between them across the room that would cover the space, so don't do math on 10X5 canopy that would be in a scrog situation which I am not prepared for. So with two sets of 4X4 that is 16 sq ft each for a total of 32 then dived that into the 840 watts total that is 26.25 watts per Square Foot which I think you'd agree is a great number right?

DankSwag