LED Comparisons?

Is there any guide for the consumer on how to compare LED panels to the next one.
Things to look for and to watch out for? Is there anyone that has compared a high end model such as Apache AT600 with a Dorm Grow 900 Full Spectrum at half the cost or anything like that.

I am a frugal bastard and won't spend a dime more then I need too if one LED light produces equivalent results for less money then a more expensive make and model.

Anywise would love to have thread on comparisons when it comes to LEDs I think we all know there are some out that can produce similar yields if not better trichome production compared to a 1000 watt HPS.

DankSwag

PSUAGRO. said:

http://cpl.usu.edu/files/publications/factsheet/pub__6441190.pdf

Click to expand...

The cost analysis is based of 5 years, I didn't get chance to check the formula if it including bulb replacement, degradation of HID lamps over time and cost to cool grow rooms when doing the cost analysis.

Based of GG side by side, yield per wattage used seems to indicate that LED is less expensive for power rates do not decline but increase over time.

I'm really looking for side by side of LED units to understand which ones provide the best results for the money.

Thank you though for that info, quite interesting.

DankSwag

In this setup DormGrow lights are being used in a 2x2 tent 5 feet high.
The light source consist of one 240W LED (actual draw 140w, cost $300) panel supplemented with a 90W LED UFO (draw 82watt cost $150) and two tertiary 12W Red (Bloom) (draw 12w cost $45 each) LED bulbs.

Total watt draw, 140+82+12+12=246 watts. Total cost in lights $530.

This is what they look like at 57 days into flowering, which is very impressive to me and leads the question to what could be possible with a DormGrow 900 at under 1K cost to own?




DankSwag

Strain^^^^???.....................then will know if it's impressive

PSUAGRO. said:

Strain^^^^???.....................then will know if it's impressive

Click to expand...

Blue Cheese for 3 of them, in the back right hand corner is a G13xAK47

DankSwag

DANKSWAG said:

Blue Cheese for 3 of them, in the back right hand corner is a G13xAK47

DankSwag

Click to expand...

Both are good strains for weight IMO............. Nice grow^^^, but you can do better runs with less wattage than dormgrow..............will cost more $$ initially though.

PSUAGRO. said:

Both are good strains for weight IMO............. Nice grow^^^, but you can do better runs with less wattage than dormgrow..............will cost more $$ initially though.

Click to expand...

Pray tell, what can I use at less then 245watts that would produce as good or better then this?

DankSwag

PSUAGRO. said:

Both are good strains for weight IMO............. Nice grow^^^, but you can do better runs with less wattage than dormgrow..............will cost more $$ initially though.

Click to expand...

A quick update about this grow .this is a setup I did for a patient I work with. I provided the genetics, mixed the soil, and provided lights and equipment and instructions. This grow is a result of my expertise and as mentioned setup provided, all my patient had to do was water and follow advise on pruning. No additional nutrients or other supplements added.

I pretty much comfortable using what I know about LEDs in small spaces. However I want to setup a grow that will have two flowering lights with 6 plants each under them so I am very interested in getting the best bang for the buck. I don't want to over pay for something that can be obtained for less and produce just as well and be just as reliable.

As I said I've only worked with the DormGrow product and haven't really needed something that would cover more then 4 square feet but that is all about to change that is why I am leaning to what I am familiar with, on paper looking at the cost of the Apache AT600 verses that of the DormGrow 900, the thought of saving 1k difference between the lights intrigues me to the point where I am hoping to converse with someone that has the DormGrow 900 and can tell me if that is an acceptable alternative or not.

That's what I was hoping GG or someone here in this forum has experience with DormGrow or is willing to do a side by side with their AT600 cause I can't afford both or I would do it.

DankSwag

DANKSWAG said:

Pray tell, what can I use at less then 245watts that would produce as good or better then this?

DankSwag

Click to expand...

Each run is different unless your using a mom, which you know obviously. If looking for ROI , and less chance of failure and less wattage use than cheap chinese encapsulated leds(like Dorm). Apache, A51, Hans, etc. will do that for you.

I'm a little biased towards Hans because it can cover the most area for least amount of watts due to his design.

I know of zero pre-built led panels that can cover a 4x4 with 260watts(4 panels) for $1000 shipped to the door.:

http://www.ledgrow.eu/Reviews.html first grow shows what you can do in a 4x4 with 4 panels, it's limitations are the height of the plants. It will not handle "trees", must be kept short for best results IMO.

PSUAGRO. said:

http://cpl.usu.edu/files/publications/factsheet/pub__6441190.pdf

Click to expand...

Sometimes ..
You get to be a bad ....

How I should put it ?

My intention is to praise your knowledge base ...

Sometimes ..
You get to be a bad mothafucka,brother .


That was a hit under the belt ,you gave me with that pdf ...

...

Keep up the great research & development ,brother ...

( I';ve to be so stoned lately ...
I can't find the fuckin' 'rep' button ...
While searching for it ,I always get stuck staring closely ,
the RGB .......
pixels of my LCD screen ....
Way weird ...)


Cheers.

PSUAGRO. said:

Each run is different unless your using a mom, which you know obviously. If looking for ROI , and less chance of failure and less wattage use than cheap chinese encapsulated leds(like Dorm). Apache, A51, Hans, etc. will do that for you.

I'm a little biased towards Hans because it can cover the most area for least amount of watts due to his design.

I know of zero pre-built led panels that can cover a 4x4 with 260watts(4 panels) for $1000 shipped to the door.:

http://www.ledgrow.eu/Reviews.html first grow shows what you can do in a 4x4 with 4 panels, it's limitations are the height of the plants. It will not handle "trees", must be kept short for best results IMO.

Click to expand...

My question was where can I use in my current grow space as in the pics I showed a 2x2 area using Dorm Grow at 246watts for under $550 that can produce flowers like I shown in those pics.

I've looked at some of your threads showing the Hans verses different lights and from what I can tell (and I realize strains make the difference) Hans doesn't seem to produce what I am producing with my Dorm Grow lights. But to be fair I'd like to do a side by side using same strain and environment with only difference being lights to quantify my statement that my Dorm Grow lights seem to produce better than what I have seen from your Hans grows. I could be wrong but only one way to find out is a side by side.

So pray tell where do I get a Hans panel like your using? I've check the internet seems like lot of imitator web sites selling Hans Led lighting. I want to be fair and do this with genuine Hans panel.

DankSwag

Those nugs look awesome DS. What was your total pull with that 246W?

The radiometric efficiency of the LEDs is what it all comes down to. Cheapo mystery LED panels are running at 15-20% efficiency and in some cases are running so hot that the LEDs actually fail. Quality prefab LEds like the A51, Apache and Onyx are running in the low 30s. The Onyx is the cheapest/dissipation Watt ($2.14/W) and it has known emitters and bins, Cree XML2 with 3000K spectrum.

The dorm grow 900 claims actual power draw of 546W so LED dissipation is about 460W. So that is $2.39/ dissipation W, more expensive than the Onyx. It claims to have the growing power of 1400W HID but in truth it may be less than a 400W HPS. I put it in the category of unknown bins and emitters, less than 20% efficiency meaning it creates almost twice as much heat/W as HID and is on par with fluorescent.

So the bottom line is, whatever you can do with generic LED, you can do 1.5X better with a 30% efficient LED. If you are truly a frugal bastard as you claim (like me) and you want the very best performance and up front cost, you can build a lamp and get 42% efficiency for about $1.5/dissipation W.

SupraSPL said:

Those nugs look awesome DS. What was your total pull with that 246W?

The radiometric efficiency of the LEDs is what it all comes down to. Cheapo mystery LED panels are running at 15-20% efficiency and in some cases are running so hot that the LEDs actually fail. Quality prefab LEds like the A51, Apache and Onyx are running in the low 30s. The Onyx is the cheapest/dissipation Watt ($2.14/W) and it has known emitters and bins, Cree XML2 with 3000K spectrum.

The dorm grow 900 claims actual power draw of 546W so LED dissipation is about 460W. So that is $2.39/ dissipation W, more expensive than the Onyx. It claims to have the growing power of 1400W HID but in truth it may be less than a 400W HPS. I put it in the category of unknown bins and emitters, less than 20% efficiency meaning it creates almost twice as much heat/W as HID and is on par with fluorescent.

So the bottom line is, whatever you can do with generic LED, you can do 1.5X better with a 30% efficient LED. If you are truly a frugal bastard as you claim (like me) and you want the very best performance and up front cost, you can build a lamp and get 42% efficiency for about $1.5/dissipation W.

Click to expand...

...A beautiful uppercut ,right onto the "DiscoLover" 's chin ...


Cheers..
..

Ding !!!

SupraSPL said:

Those nugs look awesome DS. What was your total pull with that 246W?

The radiometric efficiency of the LEDs is what it all comes down to. Cheapo mystery LED panels are running at 15-20% efficiency and in some cases are running so hot that the LEDs actually fail. Quality prefab LEds like the A51, Apache and Onyx are running in the low 30s. The Onyx is the cheapest/dissipation Watt ($2.14/W) and it has known emitters and bins, Cree XML2 with 3000K spectrum.

The dorm grow 900 claims actual power draw of 546W so LED dissipation is about 460W. So that is $2.39/ dissipation W, more expensive than the Onyx. It claims to have the growing power of 1400W HID but in truth it may be less than a 400W HPS. I put it in the category of unknown bins and emitters, less than 20% efficiency meaning it creates almost twice as much heat/W as HID and is on par with fluorescent.

So the bottom line is, whatever you can do with generic LED, you can do 1.5X better with a 30% efficient LED. If you are truly a frugal bastard as you claim (like me) and you want the very best performance and up front cost, you can build a lamp and get 42% efficiency for about $1.5/dissipation W.

Click to expand...

Thanks SuperaSPL,

I am a frugal bastard and I think I saw your post on DIY LED. When have the time I'd very much like to build my own. I'm working on getting a used Area 51 SG160 cause I'd like to compare. I know I need to get a watt meter and light tools, just can't do that right now but would like to do so to compare watts. I certainly don't what to use more watts then necessary to obtain good yields and if my DormGrow is using electricity less efficiently then the makes you mentioned I will have no objection to replacing them.

But as you can see if my watt draw is truly at 246 or below this is damm good results in 2x2 tent. Harvest was just completed, awaiting for buds to dry, they are so damm sticky making trimming a bitch but ain't complaining about all the scissor hash. I will have dry weight to share by end of week.

DankSwag

stardustsailor said:

...A beautiful uppercut ,right onto the "DiscoLover" 's chin ...

Cheers..
..

Ding !!!

Click to expand...

StardustSailor,

Not sure what you are reading, my post of been clear I want the best value for my money. I understand my Dorm Grow lights are not considered to be top shelf in this community, my grow though speaks for itself. So there is no fight or battle here from be saying my inexpensive LEDS are better in the terms of efficiency, which is what I want. The goal is use the least amount of watts to produce the highest yield possible from my strain. Currently I am getting what you should be able to tell great flowering results. But is doesn't matter if I am paying more in electricity and will be replacing these lights sooner than the highly touted expensive panels. It would be nice if you were a contributor to this thread instead of an instigator.

DankSwag

It just gets old when people see something then say there must be a cheaper on that can compare...
There isn't even an expensive light that is doing what the at600 has done.
If cheaper lights worked like that you would have no problem finding evidence because a shit ton of people would be doing it.

You keep saying what your dorm grow will do...it looks really good, but looks can be deceiving....final weight is all that matters. My BBK looked like 2lbs...barley 1 when all said and done.
Same with my recent grow.
So when you have an actual yield goal, we can recommend what should perform to your needs. Till then pics of an unfinished grow keep us in the dark as much as no pics.
Nice grow though

Hi Dank, I hear you, it's a tough decision and trying to get good comparison's is difficult. IMO DIY, if done right, looks like a good/better option but takes some effort and skills. Beyond that, from trolling this and other sites, the higher end (Apache, A51, and Hans)seem to be the most consistent at efficiency and output. I'm playing around with a lot of things this year but will eventually settle down and buy a higher end panel like the AT600. While efficiency is important, I'm in a location where I pay a very reasonable (7.1 cents/KWhr) rate off-hours when I run the majority of my lights, so I'm just throwing more cheap wattage at it until I settle on a happy medium, or get bored Right now it's experimenting and trying to establish consistent quality vs. efficiency or quantity, then I'll work on efficiency. But, this is a hobby for me so I don't mind spending some money on it, different angle/view than yours from the sounds of it.

DANKSWAG said:

StardustSailor,

Not sure what you are reading, my post of been clear I want the best value for my money. I understand my Dorm Grow lights are not considered to be top shelf in this community, my grow though speaks for itself. So there is no fight or battle here from be saying my inexpensive LEDS are better in the terms of efficiency, which is what I want. The goal is use the least amount of watts to produce the highest yield possible from my strain. Currently I am getting what you should be able to tell great flowering results. But is doesn't matter if I am paying more in electricity and will be replacing these lights sooner than the highly touted expensive panels. It would be nice if you were a contributor to this thread instead of an instigator.

DankSwag

Click to expand...

Oh ,No..
You probably thought that that " DiscoLover" was for you ?
Nahhhh ...
No!

It 's a whole "movement" ...

...
Contribute to what ?
(I do not see the need of any contribution ,really ..
I'm already seeing .....amazing ...things going on here ...!!!..)

DankSwag,there are plenty of led combos out there ....
I got to know couple of things ,though ....

And really ,trust me on those ,if you want /can ...

-Led lights do not grow plants ,just by themselves ....

-If you really wanted the best value for your money..
Well ...Then you certainly would have not started the thread like :

" Is there any guide for the consumer on how to compare LED panels to the next one.
Things to look for and to watch out for? Is there anyone that has compared a high end model such as Apache AT600 with a Dorm Grow 900 Full Spectrum at half the cost or anything like that.

I am a frugal bastard and won't spend a dime more then I need too if one LED light produces equivalent results for less money then a more expensive make and model."




Why ?

Think it over a bit .


You 're a "consumer " .....
Thus 'restricted' to a range of pre-selected (not by you ,of course ) designs,
starting from crap to what you are referring as high end devices ...

If you still think that I'm an instigator.,you're wrong ..
You haven't seen me -yet- "in mood " ...

BTW ,nice grow ....
If it's real ...
Cause most growers I'm aware of ,they' would need a K of HID ,
to have those juicy wonderful buds of yours ....

But then...
As I've already stated to you ...
-Led lights do not grow plants ,just by themselves ....

It might be the fact that you're an awesome grower ,too...
Or something else ...
Still ....
I've tried many different leds myself ....

And I got to know -be aware of -certain things ,by experience and only ...
Do not forget that ,please .

Welcome and take good care ..

Cheers.

Greengenes707 said:

It just gets old when people see something then say there must be a cheaper on that can compare...
There isn't even an expensive light that is doing what the at600 has done.
If cheaper lights worked like that you would have no problem finding evidence because a shit ton of people would be doing it.

You keep saying what your dorm grow will do...it looks really good, but looks can be deceiving....final weight is all that matters. My BBK looked like 2lbs...barley 1 when all said and done.
Same with my recent grow.
So when you have an actual yield goal, we can recommend what should perform to your needs. Till then pics of an unfinished grow keep us in the dark as much as no pics.
Nice grow though

Click to expand...

GG,

I can't help you with what gets old for you, this is new for me figuring out what LED is the best bang for the buck. Thanks for contributing to my quest.

DankSwag