This Is Why I Believe.

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
Greens easy on the eyes man, that's why I use it.

I multi quote so people know exactly what I'm talking about or referencing, trust me it makes it a lot easier that way.


†L† no, its not that, its that you wrote a short essay for one person, and it wasn't me... ;)
And yes, for kerri, that will definately make it easier to figure out which post your answering to with each post, understand that, but damn, an essay?!

though, while i didn't nearly read all of it, you can raise a kid athiest. All that is is telling your kid from day one, "kid, your gonna go to school, and they're going to feed you some bullshit about some old man in the clouds watching your every move, and they'll call this mystical thing 'god' its all bullshit, they're is no god, its a fairytale. in this house they're will be no such nonsense..." etc etc etc.

As for the rest of it, you could be right/wrong, my lazy stoner ass may never know. ;)
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
†L† no, its not that, its that you wrote a short essay for one person, and it wasn't me... ;)
And yes, for kerri, that will definately make it easier to figure out which post your answering to with each post, understand that, but damn, an essay?!

though, while i didn't nearly read all of it, you can raise a kid athiest. All that is is telling your kid from day one, "kid, your gonna go to school, and they're going to feed you some bullshit about some old man in the clouds watching your every move, and they'll call this mystical thing 'god' its all bullshit, they're is no god, its a fairytale. in this house they're will be no such nonsense..." etc etc etc.

As for the rest of it, you could be right/wrong, my lazy stoner ass may never know. ;)
I understand, I'll make my posts more concise in the future.

At one point, I had a discussion going with a guy that reached 29 pages long and took a week to respond to!
 

crackerboy

Active Member
Never once did I claim you claimed it was! Imagine that.


Like I said before, you've been taking the position of defending Christianity against the points I and MP have been making against it.



"meditation or mythology" - that's what you think "teaching your kid your religion" means?

Well fuck, there's the problem! There's absolutely nothing wrong with teaching a child meditation or mythology, which teaching any religion isn't.

When you tell a kid something in such absolute terms, ie. words like "eternity", "forever", etc. they take it as fact, they're not old enough to discern for themselves the difference between simple mythology and reality, especially if it's coming from a figure of authority who commands trust already, like a parent.



Human beings would not be able to be led to their deaths if they didn't believe the in the ridiculous things their religion promises them.

When was the last time you saw an atheist suicide bomber? :idea::idea::idea:



Which parts are and which parts aren't? How do you know? Why do so many Christians disagree about this simple question? Most of the Christians I know would say the Bible is inspired by the word of God and written by man, so it would contain errors. So how does someone figure out what the errors are and what the inspired from God parts are?



And I guess it went completely over your head or you're just too lame to admit you're wrong about that point you tried to make.

You said as an atheist I'd never be interested in someone devoutly religious. The point was proved wrong the moment you said it, as I explained, and after more thought, it was more like 1/3 because I was atheist, the other 2/3's were because I smoke weed and because she's moving away for college.

But you proved yourself to be an asshole with that attempt anyway, so moving on, again... ;)



Dude, at this point, I don't even think you know what you are... What's the name of the thread again... Oh yeah "this is why I believe...", so, why do you believe?

I suspect you haven't put it out there yet because you know we'd tear it to pieces. Prove me wrong.

Also, point out anyone in the thread whose not an atheist or a Christian. Anyone whose actually stated clearly what they believe that is.



We don't have time for that...



...dude, seriously, there's just not enough time, I'm sorry...



ROFL @ that! How is one "raised atheist"? "Henry!! Come in here!" "yeah mom..?" "You better not be believing in God in there!!" "I'm not mom..." "cuz Goddamnit you know you were raised ATHEIST!!"..

Give me a break. You aren't "raised atheist". You decide for yourself when you think past the bullshit that organized religion is. The entire concept of God and just about everything that goes along with is is simply impossible in logistical terms. If your God doesn't think in logistical terms, then he's not omnipotent. If he's not omnipotent, then he's not God.



Why are you holding out? Provide me with the evidence you were shown that made you change your mind.



That sounds like something you would hear George Bush say, holy shit..

"you have to ask questions and be skeptical, but you can't trust the answers to the questions" .. What??

You state shit like this and don't even realize the clear benefit the scientific method provides. That's why it's there. It takes the human error out of the equation.

Science win. Religion fail.

Science - test, observe, measure, track, record, test again, compare results, refine conclusions, understand the universe a little bit better

Religion - trust, believe, have faith, pray, pay, ask forgiveness



Wrong. The reason is because I know what you people would consider a "religious experience" isn't anything more than simple explainable bodily functions. It's really that fuckin' simple man, and it's amazing to me you can't see that.

See, what happens when I get a little tingle downstairs... I don't say "oh shit, was that Jesus touching my nuts?!"... I realize "hey, I GET tingles down there, I'm a biological creature with billions of moving parts, tingles are bound to happen...", and that's that.

I don't sit there and ponder for hours on end asking myself "what was that?!". I'm educated enough to realize that attributing every little thing to a god would be, frankly, retarded, not to mention inconsistent, which is another word the Christian "word of the day" calender makers should add to the list...



Nope, wrong again, you must love being wrong, damn...

I know it's not my right to make anyone believe anything, not to mention, not my fucking job. I think it is the individuals obligation and responsibility to educate themselves enough to realize this shit is the literal ball and chain around the ankle of humanities 21st century body. It's like a crackhead cousin who we love so much we can't send them to rehab. They drain all our resources and give us no respect, but fuck, we love the guy! And all you passive believers are the enablers. The people who see nothing wrong with what organized religion has done to our species. The people who think standing up for equal rights and defending science is somehow "atheist fundamentalism" or "Christian oppression". ROFL!



If you're a Christian or a Jew the 10 commandments apply to you. And I'm pretty sure Obama got the Christian right's vote, I mean, even though they think he's a Muslim, right...

I'll say it again, and you can deny deny deny till the end of the Earth, but I stand by this, tolerance for other religions aren't present in any of them. The 10 commandments attest to that with Christianity and Judaism, and I'm pretty sure Islam explains that point pretty clearly.

It is also obvious why. Because other religions are a threat. Proponents of Christianity didn't want anything else to compete with it, just like Muslims don't want anything to compete with Islam. It's exactly the same.




You can teach someone every single lesson religion provides without telling them they're going to be condemned to an eternity of torment if they don't play by the rules. When people do things for the wrong reasons they don't learn anything about making the right choices. We have the wealthiest country in human history, but are plagued by problems organized religion provides. It poisons almost every single issue we face in one way or another. This is why I take such a harsh stance against it, because it's literally everywhere, causing or perpetuating every single problem out there. You name it, I'll show you how.



crackerboy, first thanks for sharing the story. Gave insight into your reasons, which is the point of the thread. I think you're being honest about it and actually believe everything that happened to you the way it did.

With that said, my assessment of your post is probably going to offend you, I thought about it and there doesn't seem to be a way around it, so I hope you don't take it personally, because that's not how it is at all, I hope you understand that.

It sounds like you had a pretty laid back childhood with relatively lax parents who didn't hit the discipline button very much, which is why I think you didn't develop any real sense of right and wrong early on and also simply dismissed the entire aspect of consequences until after you did whatever you wanted to do and ended up facing them.

Your tale of finding Jesus in jail isn't uncommon at all. And everything you said, in my mind, can simply be marked up as explainable coincidence. At the time you were in a state of mind, as you were being given Bible readings and studying daily, to want to believe this stuff was real. I mean think about it, what actual evidence do you have? Does anyone ever have? Why is it always some kind of a feeling or emotion? Why not something tangible, something measurable, observable?

I know why. I've thought about why. There is only one answer why. It is because if there was something to measure, the measurement would come out wrong. If there was something to observe, we'd observe it differently. As we have done, as we DO do all the time.


Why are some people so susceptible to God but others not at all?

No offense taken man. Unfortunately your assessment is way off. I was in and out of Juvi most of my childhood. I actually grew up in a military home and had to move out of the county twice. But most of my childhood was spent in Tampa FL. Unlike most children now a days, I actually got spanked. Not only spanked but my dad had a special paddle for that ass. I was just that thick headed.
 

rzza

Well-Known Member
raising your kids athiest ....
this is a thread all in its own. ive always concidered teaching my son that god is the way, only because hes so bad and his mom is literally an absconder from jail and is like the worst person i know. i was thinking, put the fear of god in him because otherwise i see him becoming an absolute terror. i no longer think this is the right thing to do and i want him to be raised with morals yet without having to fear the consequences from GOD. he just started school this year and hes already coming home and talking about these things like the guy in the sky and stuff....i dont believe hes hearing it in lechtures but rather from his peers. and then how do i teach him that its all hooplah and expect him to not tell his friends their wrong, because there isnt a god....

when i turned about 24 i started questioning religion and thats when i became athiest. at first i hated my parents and society for allowing me to be blind to the situation for my whole life. i literally was sooo turned around and confused and mad at the world. i dont want my son to live a majority of his life as a believer and then start thinking for himself and be as CONFUSED and UPSET as i was. i just dont know what to do....
 

karri0n

Well-Known Member
Like I said before, you've been taking the position of defending Christianity against the points I and MP have been making against it.


I'm defending religion and spirituality and have denounced Christianity multiple times.



"meditation or mythology" - that's what you think "teaching your kid your religion" means?

Well fuck, there's the problem! There's absolutely nothing wrong with teaching a child meditation or mythology, which teaching any religion isn't.


Yes it is.
Just stop. You have absolutely no concept of the meaning of religion. You speak of nothing other than chrisitianity, and your grasp on that is weak as hell too. Protip: The bible is mythology.


Which parts are and which parts aren't? How do you know? Why do so many Christians disagree about this simple question? Most of the Christians I know would say the Bible is inspired by the word of God and written by man, so it would contain errors. So how does someone figure out what the errors are and what the inspired from God parts are?
Everything. It's a book of mythology and metaphor. Even in Jesus' time, his biggest problem was people failing to understand the simple points he was trying to make. Change the book around until it's nearly unrecognizable and add 2000 years to this and you get what we have today.



Dude, at this point, I don't even think you know what you are... What's the name of the thread again... Oh yeah "this is why I believe...", so, why do you believe?

I suspect you haven't put it out there yet because you know we'd tear it to pieces. Prove me wrong.

Also, point out anyone in the thread whose not an atheist or a Christian. Anyone whose actually stated clearly what they believe that is.
This is your problem. MOST people don't quantify their beliefs into a single label. You're completely stuck on labels and that's all you can think about. I even included one for myself, for your convenience.

I've stated multiple times, clearly, what I believe. It's not my fault if you lack the faculty to use google and look up the word "pagan".

As to why, the simple answer is because it works. "Tear that to pieces" please.

...dude, seriously, there's just not enough time, I'm sorry...
cop out much?

ROFL @ that! How is one "raised atheist"? "Henry!! Come in here!" "yeah mom..?" "You better not be believing in God in there!!" "I'm not mom..." "cuz Goddamnit you know you were raised ATHEIST!!"..

Give me a break. You aren't "raised atheist". You decide for yourself when you think past the bullshit that organized religion is. The entire concept of God and just about everything that goes along with is is simply impossible in logistical terms. If your God doesn't think in logistical terms, then he's not omnipotent. If he's not omnipotent, then he's not God.
Nice job with the totally unrelated misquote, but yeah as far as the actual point, this is full of shit. It's really as simple as a parent saying "Don't trust what the churches or bible tell you, it's not true".But deny the way I was raised, go ahead. I'm sure you were there and obviously know better than I do what my mother said to me.


That sounds like something you would hear George Bush say, holy shit..

"you have to ask questions and be skeptical, but you can't trust the answers to the questions" .. What??

You state shit like this and don't even realize the clear benefit the scientific method provides. That's why it's there. It takes the human error out of the equation.

Science win. Religion fail.

Science - test, observe, measure, track, record, test again, compare results, refine conclusions, understand the universe a little bit better

Religion - trust, believe, have faith, pray, pay, ask forgiveness
More bullshit about Christianity. Not all belief systems work this way.

Nope, wrong again, you must love being wrong, damn...

I know it's not my right to make anyone believe anything, not to mention, not my fucking job. I think it is the individuals obligation and responsibility to educate themselves enough to realize this shit is the literal ball and chain around the ankle of humanities 21st century body. It's like a crackhead cousin who we love so much we can't send them to rehab. They drain all our resources and give us no respect, but fuck, we love the guy! And all you passive believers are the enablers. The people who see nothing wrong with what organized religion has done to our species. The people who think standing up for equal rights and defending science is somehow "atheist fundamentalism" or "Christian oppression". ROFL!
"I think it's everyone's individual responsibility to be an atheist". Thanks for proving my point.

If you're a Christian or a Jew the 10 commandments apply to you. And I'm pretty sure Obama got the Christian right's vote, I mean, even though they think he's a Muslim, right...

I'll say it again, and you can deny deny deny till the end of the Earth, but I stand by this, tolerance for other religions aren't present in any of them. The 10 commandments attest to that with Christianity and Judaism, and I'm pretty sure Islam explains that point pretty clearly.

It is also obvious why. Because other religions are a threat. Proponents of Christianity didn't want anything else to compete with it, just like Muslims don't want anything to compete with Islam. It's exactly the same.
Buddhism, Taoism, daoism, hinduism, yoism, new age spirituality, paganism, wicca, druidism, Jedi, native american worship,

Just a couple of "labeled" religions that don't profess to be the one true way and have no reason to criticize others for their beliefs. It's painfully obvious that atheism doesn't make this list as ALL atheists do nothing but put others down for their own beliefs. See what I did there?

Also, 80% of the country (approximate, I don't have the actual figure) Identifies as Christian, so obviously 80% of the country voted Against Barack Obama, right? And he still got in? Wow this is even worse than the Bush elections!


You can teach someone every single lesson religion provides without telling them they're going to be condemned to an eternity of torment if they don't play by the rules. When people do things for the wrong reasons they don't learn anything about making the right choices. We have the wealthiest country in human history, but are plagued by problems organized religion provides. It poisons almost every single issue we face in one way or another. This is why I take such a harsh stance against it, because it's literally everywhere, causing or perpetuating every single problem out there. You name it, I'll show you how.
The same could be said for the corporate greed that permeates all of American society. It's also full of shit that organized religion is responsible for every single problem. Atheism is a pretty big problem and I don't see any organized religion promoting it.

Why are some people so susceptible to God but others not at all?
People are different. The same reason some people cry at movies and others do not, the same reason some people like olives and others do not.
 

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
raising your kids athiest ....
this is a thread all in its own. ive always concidered teaching my son that god is the way, only because hes so bad and his mom is literally an absconder from jail and is like the worst person i know. i was thinking, put the fear of god in him because otherwise i see him becoming an absolute terror. i no longer think this is the right thing to do and i want him to be raised with morals yet without having to fear the consequences from GOD. he just started school this year and hes already coming home and talking about these things like the guy in the sky and stuff....i dont believe hes hearing it in lechtures but rather from his peers. and then how do i teach him that its all hooplah and expect him to not tell his friends their wrong, because there isnt a god....

when i turned about 24 i started questioning religion and thats when i became athiest. at first i hated my parents and society for allowing me to be blind to the situation for my whole life. i literally was sooo turned around and confused and mad at the world. i dont want my son to live a majority of his life as a believer and then start thinking for himself and be as CONFUSED and UPSET as i was. i just dont know what to do....
Honestly, at that age, you can't. You can tell him, but he's gonna tell his friends, and they're will be many fights and he will be targeted by the other kids by that point, because they're all going to believe he's going to hell...my PERSONAL opinion? treat it like santa clause, play along until he's old enough. Not to many people resent their parents for telling the santa was real when they were a kid...
 

Babs34

Well-Known Member
....there is a God.
Although there isn't any physical proof of his existence, hear me out. I will not be bashing atheism or any one that doesn't believe.

My example, is Love. It is an emotion we all feel. An emotion we all NEED. It is present in every single persons life, whether they are being loved, or they are loving someone/something(i.e. their BUDS:leaf:). Now, with that being said, has anyone here seen Love? Physically seen it? Now, I could go on with different emotions, but that would just spread this out too much.

The reason I believe there is a God is because there is plenty of proof that there are things beyond us, beyond what we can physically see, but what we physically feel. I believe God can reach down and touch us, in ways we can't describe, but I like to call them (loosely) as goosebumps =)

Please feel free to shut this theory of mine down. :bigjoint::weed:
bongsmilie...rock on :clap:
The one entity known to creation is the lost soul who vehemently questions even the possibility of God...and the one who adamantly, with ferocity, denies that which is not "seen."


May God Bless us ALL. :bigjoint:
 

420God

Well-Known Member
†LHFAO† how encouraging....
Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Lol.

My family came from Asia, Europe, and America. I was raised around mixed religions and have chosen to be atheist.

My daughter will be given the choice of a bible or a physics book when she's older and she can decide for herself.
 

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
†LHFAO† choice between a bible and a physics book...that is fucking awesome...

I think they're is a god, ie, the sum of all matter in existence, but wether it even has a consciousness, let alone give a ratshit about us, I find harder and harder to stomach...lets face it, we use skin cells all the time, but we don't notice nor do we care....,
 

420God

Well-Known Member
†LHFAO† choice between a bible and a physics book...that is fucking awesome...

I think they're is a god, ie, the sum of all matter in existence, but wether it even has a consciousness, let alone give a ratshit about us, I find harder and harder to stomach...lets face it, we use skin cells all the time, but we don't notice nor do we care....,
That's the exact way my wife and mother feel. They're not religious but they know there's something more out there.
 

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
Well, its hard to buy "God wrote this book...no really, despite the change in sentence structure, the fact the council of men compiled it, but they just KNEW by the spirit of God that he had indeed written ever last word! Ignore what your common sense can teach you, only truth comes from the bible!!" Despite the fact that they're is less then proof to support it, and if they're is indeed a creating entity that wasted his time on a book, he also created everything else, making any lesson they have at least as valid...
 

karri0n

Well-Known Member
I started studying the occult at age 6 while being raised catholic (great stuff, being taught whats considered an abomination to the other group I'm being taught by) I know they're are forces we can't explain that we use in casting, but I firmly believe that a scientific principal has to be behind them that we don't understand, or they wouldn't work.
Precisely.

Though now I'm intrigued... can you elaborate on your practices
 

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
Precisely.

Though now I'm intrigued... can you elaborate on your practices
thats a pm conversation...there are witches who think I'm an abomination...(yea, wiccans usually, stuck up little pricks, as self-righteous as any christians I've ever met...) :|
 

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
†L† I know....it seems like every suppressed group that gets any freedom from their suppression look to suppress someone else...a vicious cycle...The only historical exception I can think of is the Quakers, and thats the only thing I know about them...
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
karri0n, I'm not responding to your bullshit anymore, you're just trolling this thread now, purposefully avoiding the points being made and it's obvious.
 

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
not that I know him/her well enought to declare s/he's not a troll, as we've been infested with them lately... (they're getting immune to troll spray)
but the last two post s/he made were towards me, so while yes, s/he was ignoring you, s/he wasn't, at the moment, trolling...
 
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