This Is Why I Believe.

Babs34

Babs34

Well-Known Member
djruiner said:
good night?...maybe i should try and run after each comment i make...my whole point was...just because you got better...does not prove science is wrong and listening to a soundless voice made you better.its like your saying since you got better..there has to be a god.*waves retardly*[/QUOTE]

Pleae don't insult retarded children.:sad:
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RavenMochi

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
djruiner said:
i thought it was..."why cant we all just get a bong"?
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That works to... :)
The point is at this point this conversation has disintegrated to the point where nothing good nor useful can come of it. None at all. This will not end well, thats just not in the options.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Babs34 said:
One quick addendum Mindphuk...your words here verbatim:
My goal is and always has been to defend science from ignorant and baseless attacks.

If man's "science" were truly so much more worthy than your notion of God, the world would indeed be without purpose.

You have no idea what you trust. I have been diagnosed with an assortment of disease, only to be "informed" by doctor after doctor that "just because I have these lists of terroristic 'diseases'........."does not mean there isn't "something else" wrong in addition to "their facts." I was the EPITOME OF HEALTH only a few short years ago mind you......until of course I relied on man's scientific notion for healing/medication......and no, I am not referring to only partaking of the medicinal qualities of MJ.

THAT SCIENTIFIC NOTION WAS KILLING ME!!!!

When I said God was BIGGER than "science"........that wasn't a mumbo jumbo Christian rant. Proof is in the pudding, and I AM that living proof. My being able to throw out "with proof" a mere "I told you so" will serve as no credit towards my being.

It's SCIENCE that has been KILLING ME.

It is GOD ALMIGHTLY bringing me from the depths of hell.

.....The End
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Why does it have to be an either/or proposition with you people? I say I defend science, mostly because that is what I'm trained in. I claimed to defend science against ignorance and never once implied because I believe it is superior to god. First of all, I will point out that medicine is not hard science in every case. Doctors make mistakes, but that does not invalidate germ theory. Not all western medicine works great and how we expect it, but it is often much better than the alternative, relying on a deity. Although the underlying principles of medicine are based on biology, the practice of medicine is not always as evidence-based as the hard sciences like physics and chemistry. Why do people live so much longer now? They were arguably more religious, shouldn't god have kept them alive? I can't say anything about your particular situation but there can be many rational, non-spiritual explanations with misdiagnosis being at the top of the list but a supernatural being that alters physical reality to help us is way down on my list of probable explanations for things in this world. I cannot disprove a god anymore than you can prove one.
In spite of what Babs claims, I never once claimed to disprove god and I challenge anyone here to find a quote where I said any such thing. I will attempt to challenge believers with skeptical thinking but more often than not, believers will criticize rational, logical thought as if it's a bad thing. Unfortunately, many people find that applying logic to their favored holy texts will invalidate much of what is said there. Many religious people can deal with it. Most people are able to look at many of the stories as allegorical. The truth is the majority of things claimed to be attributed to a god historically as well as currently, usually will have other more naturalistic explanations but believers will rationalize those away for various reasons, usually, the feeling of the presence of something. The thing is, a skeptical naturalist like me will always be critical of sloppy thinking and will speak up whether about religion or pseudoscience or nutty conspiracy theories. I don't hold religion to any different standard than any other unexplainable phenomenon. Science is and always has been about finding answers. Attributing things to a supernatural, unexplainable entity creates more questions than it answers. I'm okay saying I don't know/ we don't understand.
I'm glad you are better, that's the most important thing.
 
RavenMochi

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
Why does it have to be an either/or proposition with you people? I say I defend science, mostly because that is what I'm trained in. I claimed to defend science against ignorance and never once implied because I believe it is superior to god. First of all, I will point out that medicine is not hard science in every case. Doctors make mistakes, but that does not invalidate germ theory. Not all western medicine works great and how we expect it, but it is often much better than the alternative, relying on a deity. Although the underlying principles of medicine are based on biology, the practice of medicine is not always as evidence-based as the hard sciences like physics and chemistry. Why do people live so much longer now? They were arguably more religious, shouldn't god have kept them alive? I can't say anything about your particular situation but there can be many rational, non-spiritual explanations with misdiagnosis being at the top of the list but a supernatural being that alters physical reality to help us is way down on my list of probable explanations for things in this world. I cannot disprove a god anymore than you can prove one.
In spite of what Babs claims, I never once claimed to disprove god and I challenge anyone here to find a quote where I said any such thing. I will attempt to challenge believers with skeptical thinking but more often than not, believers will criticize rational, logical thought as if it's a bad thing. Unfortunately, many people find that applying logic to their favored holy texts will invalidate much of what is said there. Many religious people can deal with it. Most people are able to look at many of the stories as allegorical. The truth is the majority of things claimed to be attributed to a god historically as well as currently, usually will have other more naturalistic explanations but believers will rationalize those away for various reasons, usually, the feeling of the presence of something. The thing is, a skeptical naturalist like me will always be critical of sloppy thinking and will speak up whether about religion or pseudoscience or nutty conspiracy theories. I don't hold religion to any different standard than any other unexplainable phenomenon. Science is and always has been about finding answers. Attributing things to a supernatural, unexplainable entity creates more questions than it answers. I'm okay saying I don't know/ we don't understand.
I'm glad you are better, that's the most important thing.
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†sighs† just had to have the last word, didn't you...
First off 'defend science'. :| really? We'll be sure to give you a medal later, without your valiant efforts, science would have been killed, and we would be thrown back into the stone age. Our computers would have ceased to work, lights would have burst, and mobs would have roamed the country side looking for the witch that caused this latest recession...You have single handedly saved science and the world as we know it. Thank you.
Call me crazy, but had you never been born I don't think we would have fallen back to the dark ages.

Likewise, I think Babs will be okay. She doesn't need you to "rescue" her from her unscientifical explanations. How dare anyone try to explaing something without science, despite the fact that last I heard a bee breaks the laws of physics. The problem with always looking for a scientific answer is science is currently inadequate to explain many phenomenon. Not that one day it wont, I don't know, but its at a fail right now. Lets face it, at our current scientific level we are having serious issues just describing the human brain, individuality, etc. I'm all about critical rational thought, I want to understand everything. If there is indeed a God, I would love love to understand the very substance he is embodied in. If they're are indeed ghost, and some can materialize, I want to know what it is that constitutes that form. But right now, and most likely in my lifetime, we aren't they're yet. (I'd settle for just complete understanding of the brain, what happens when we can make prostethic ones, what is individuality, etc ad naseum)

Babs, I understand what your saying, but don't completely knock scientific notions, your using one right now. ;)

Now, come on...group hug.... :hug:
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
djruiner said:
good night?...maybe i should try and run after each comment i make...my whole point was...just because you got better...does not prove science is wrong and listening to a soundless voice made you better.its like your saying since you got better..there has to be a god.*waves retardly*
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dj, you shouldn't even get started on that point. I tried making the same point with Babs in the atheist thread months ago when she brought up the same thing.

Using her logic, one could dismiss anything science has ever accomplished because a handful of doctors failed (though here you are, with some self proclaimed debilitating disease and yet you're healthy enough to argue on RIU with atheists..) with treating her disease to her content.

It doesn't take a genius to see the obvious flaws in that train of thought..
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
RavenMochi said:
despite the fact that last I heard a bee breaks the laws of physics. The problem with always looking for a scientific answer is science is currently inadequate to explain many phenomenon. Not that one day it wont, I don't know, but its at a fail right now.
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Bees don't break the laws of physics.

Science is the best tool humanity has available. It was designed to have a fail safe, so that wrong science doesn't move forward as collected knowledge. We have built upon it since the 1600s and it's only getting better.

You know what's got a pretty shitty track record for provable claims?... Religious claims.

Science > Religion
 
djruiner

djruiner

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:

dj, you shouldn't even get started on that point. I tried making the same point with Babs in the atheist thread months ago when she brought up the same thing.

Using her logic, one could dismiss anything science has ever accomplished because a handful of doctors failed (though here you are, with some self proclaimed debilitating disease and yet you're healthy enough to argue on RIU with atheists..) with treating her disease to her content.

It doesn't take a genius to see the obvious flaws in that train of thought..
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ive noticed something....why is it people seem to "find god" right after something tragic happens...some bad disease...went to prison....near death experience...was assraped by a dolphin...seems like most people stumble into religion only after negative shit happens....why is that?i cant think of anyone that while sitting and eating corn flakes...just stand up and start screaming "i have seen the light!!"not too many just "find" god....so again...why is it people only seem to find god after negative shit happens.you have 2 types of religious people...ones that was brought up in a religious family and was forced to attend..or the ones that had something really bad happen to make them believe......maybe inside all that is the real truth
 
RavenMochi

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
:clap: congratulations, you are the stars of humanity. Lets use logic for a minute, as we are all fond of it. What is it your trying to achieve. Don't misunderstand me, I get your point, I've been to a county jail before, I've seen what your talking about. But what is it your looking for? For her to all of a sudden be like "oh, shit, you know, your right, god is a scam?" I think the phrase that fits this is "intellectual masturbation." If I'm wrong, please tell me how.
And don't act like your doing this for the sake of science, all three of us could fall of the earth now, and advancements will continue. As such, I can't help but think that the only purpose your actions serve at this point is to stroke your ego. If there really is a point, please, what is it again?

I can't help but notice that her sense of religion seems to actually anger you. Why is that?
 
djruiner

djruiner

Well-Known Member
RavenMochi said:
:clap: congratulations, you are the stars of humanity. Lets use logic for a minute, as we are all fond of it. What is it your trying to achieve. Don't misunderstand me, I get your point, I've been to a county jail before, I've seen what your talking about. But what is it your looking for? For her to all of a sudden be like "oh, shit, you know, your right, god is a scam?" I think the phrase that fits this is "intellectual masturbation." If I'm wrong, please tell me how.
And don't act like your doing this for the sake of science, all three of us could fall of the earth now, and advancements will continue. As such, I can't help but think that the only purpose your actions serve at this point is to stroke your ego. If there really is a point, please, what is it again?

I can't help but notice that her sense of religion seems to actually anger you. Why is that?
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i think i made my point with my statement...and by me pointing things out..that makes me stroking my ego?....it seems no matter the topic..you seem to pop in with your 2 cents...whether or not you agree or disagree with what the person says....who is trying to stroke their ego here?and just incase i didnt spell it out right....my point/question was...why do people only find god after negative shit happens....am i looking for her to renounce her faith...not at all..people can run with whatever superstition they want...but when someone says i got better because of god..end of story...i think i have the right to disagree with her...what part of my statement did you disagree with....none that i saw in your response...so your rebuttal was pointless...you even started by saying you get my point and have seen it first hand...so what is it...do you have a hard on for her?seems like your just defending her to make yourself look good to me
 
RavenMochi

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
†s† So angry still, why?
1) don't really know babs, let alone have a clue of what she looks like, nor do I care.
2) I didn't disagree with you. I was playing Switzerland and failing miserably...
in fact, come to think of it, I havn't taken a side.
Thought about getting laid? smoking a joint? so uptight. You realize this is the internet right? Why are you getting so worked up? c a l m d o w n....breathe.......its okay....
hard on...for someone probably thousands of miles away I've never seen. Is this a common occurrence for you? 'cause it sounds like its a good way to get blue balls to me...just sayin...
Going for personal attacks now? How pathetic. So much for reason...
 
djruiner

djruiner

Well-Known Member
RavenMochi said:
†s† So angry still, why?
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where are you detecting anger from?im buzzed...watching tv..laughing my ass off while typing all this.if your getting anger from that...thats you...i guess its the "getting the last word" thing you spoke of of someone else earlier...since you still cant rebuttal my last two comments
 
RavenMochi

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
djruiner said:
where are you detecting anger from?im buzzed...watching tv..laughing my ass off while typing all this.if your getting anger from that...thats you...i guess its the "getting the last word" thing you spoke of of someone else earlier...since you still cant rebuttal my last two comments
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How quickly you forget I defended you earlier in the thread. Again, I was playing switzerland....why am I going to rebuttal you? Is there a reason I'm supposed to care? But tell you what, go ahead and respond to this and get your precious last words, I'll leave this thread and the imaginary prize you so desperately long for to you... ;)
 
djruiner

djruiner

Well-Known Member
RavenMochi said:
How quickly you forget I defended you earlier in the thread. Again, I was playing switzerland....why am I going to rebuttal you? Is there a reason I'm supposed to care? But tell you what, go ahead and respond to this and get your precious last words, I'll leave this thread and the imaginary prize you so desperately long for to you... ;)
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what you dont get is...you ARE trying to rebuttal me...just poorly...and it seems you do care...or you would not have chimed in in the first place...and if i dont respond...ie "get my precious last words" then the thread kinda dies...and unless im wrong the purpose of these is to continue a discussion..or am i wrong there?
also..i need no one to defend me...i say what i mean and what i feel without any censorship.you can back up my points...but i dont need anyone defending me...freedom of speech...its a bitch isnt it?
 
djruiner

djruiner

Well-Known Member
RavenMochi said:
†s† So angry still, why?
1) don't really know babs, let alone have a clue of what she looks like, nor do I care.
2) I didn't disagree with you. I was playing Switzerland and failing miserably...
in fact, come to think of it, I havn't taken a side.
Thought about getting laid? smoking a joint? so uptight. You realize this is the internet right? Why are you getting so worked up? c a l m d o w n....breathe.......its okay....
hard on...for someone probably thousands of miles away I've never seen. Is this a common occurrence for you? 'cause it sounds like its a good way to get blue balls to me...just sayin...
Going for personal attacks now? How pathetic. So much for reason...
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since it also took you a few minutes to edit and redo this post...thought id finish it for ya...personal attacks.....and i quote
I think the phrase that fits this is "intellectual masturbation." If I'm wrong, please tell me how.
And don't act like your doing this for the sake of science, all three of us could fall of the earth now, and advancements will continue. As such, I can't help but think that the only purpose your actions serve at this point is to stroke your ego. If there really is a point, please, what is it again?
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yet im the one coming with personal attacks.your input was only given to try and under mind the points i made...since you could not come up with an argument against what i said....so speaking of the internet cat fights...not to sound like a 3rd grader but..."you started it"
 
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