Since this could help all the growers in Az

Discussion in 'Arizona Patients' started by HB DC, May 13, 2013.


    irieie Well-Known Member

    Sometimes it is beneficial to rip your own argument down from the perspective of your opposition in order to shore up your arguments. While I admire your ambition, maybe a more well planned and calculated approach should be considered before more legal precedent is set in favor of the opposition. Crazy is trying the same thing and expecting a different outcome. As we have seen saying we are right is not enough to convince anyone else and we definitely are not looking to convince each other. No offense but why should we blindly throw our money at this and expect it to be different that what just happened? I am asking this very seriously with the intentions of supporting a cogent and plausible solution to getting rid of the 25 mile rule.
    HB DC

    HB DC Active Member

    I understand my friend...

    I donated over $1k to the federal case knowing it would fail.. Why? Because we need to do something over doing nothing.

    I will say this folks. We have already won. I wish that I could explain it in terms that will not hinder what is to come.

    The qualifying patients that are getting arrested for engaging in the medical use of marijuana NEED to STOP plea bargaining for their lawyers sake and start fighting these issues to the end. Never will the Courts dimisiish your fundamental rights unless you agree (plea bargain) to it.

    We have gotten less than $2k from folks and that will not cut the costs. So we planned for this to happen since most folks will talk about doing something but never ever follow through(many many folks saying the have or will donate in public but have not done so).. Did I expect this? Ohh yes... And that is why we started off with $10k of our own money hoping someone would match it or support the cause but that effort has fallen short.. Regardless, we are pulling for all the patients in AZ because that is what is right to do.. And many of the patients we are fighting for truly can not afford the dispensary prices let alone donating to us to fight for their rights..

    This is my recommendation-
    Print the AMMA and take it to a lawyer and ask him how these laws apply to you as qualifying patient NOT registered as a qualifying patient due to your want to maintain and protect your doctor-patient priviledge which is enumerated in the Arizona Constitution and in the A.R.S. and that you would not be participating in the Arizona Medical Marijuana Program for those reasons. Get their advise... The AMMA is far more complicated than folks are lead to believe.

    Anyone that is truly interested may contact me and I can fill them in a bit more thoroughly on the lawsuit to come...(We have Leave to Amend our Complaint- it is NOT dismissed)

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

    We are guaranteed the "Pursuit of happiness" but not the "Happiness" from the pursuits outcome... If you are not pursuiting your happiness then it is not guaranteed.


    thecoolman New Member

    In what conceivable way?

    Now this sounds like a fast way into the county jail.
    Your also repeating the same argument that your lawyer had ruled as B.S.
    HB DC

    HB DC Active Member

    Did you read the "Under Advisement Ruling"?

    Here it is for you - Advisement Ruling.pdf

    The court is not an over night thing like many think it is... Especially in civil court. Had this been a criminal case - now that is a different story.

    Lack of jurisdiction over subject matter. So we have leave to amend and bring the right subject matter to the court.

    irieie Well-Known Member

    From the dec azdhs newsletter, it seems everyone else has a different take on the reality of this case.

    Recent Lawsuits Complaint about AMMA’s 25mile Rule Rejected by Judge Two individuals filed complaints in September 2013 arguing the Arizona Medical Marijuana Act (AMMA) 25-mile cultivation restriction is unconstitutional. The plaintiffs cited Proposition 106, a referendum passed by voters in 2010, the same election in which voters approved the AMMA. Proposition 106 expands Article 27 of the Arizona Constitution which provides for the “Regulation of Health, Safety and Welfare.” The plaintiffs claimed the purpose of this proposition was to prohibit anyone from being compelled or obligated to use a certain type of health system. The 25-mile rule, they argued, was doing just this, forcing patients to use the Stateregistered dispensaries. The judge rejected this argument. She explained that by using this logic, pharmacies would also be unconstitutional. Further, she noted that the Medical Marijuana Program is not compulsory; patients choose whether they want to participate. The case was dismissed; the court found that the AMMA’s limits on medical marijuana cultivation rights comply with the Arizona Constitution. The plaintiffs can file an amended complaint by December 16th if they choose. After the decision of an unrelated lawsuit, the Department announced it is in the process of rewriting rules that govern AMMA, including modification of the 25-mile rule. ADHS plans to establish the modified rules to the AMMA by the fall of 2014
    HB DC

    HB DC Active Member

    Well since the Director seems to be confused and the Court seems to be confused as well... (just an act)
    There is no prescription for the medical use of marijuana - it is a recommendation from the Doctor.
    Re[e]fer to page 3-5 of AZ AG Opinion -

    I don't follow the Director's blog with seriousness nor do I consider his newsletters valid.. They are quite Sage if you ask me. I hope to see all qualifying patients be able to recieve medical marijuana from a dispensary including the, Rule 501, unregistered qualifying patients. (hint)

    Here is the Under Advisement Ruling - Advisement Ruling.pdf
    Read it and understand it. The Plaintiffs (the patients) have standing but standing alone cannot win a case. We must present the correct Rule 12(b)(1).
    Rule 12(b)(1)= lack jurisdiction over subject matter. The courts found that our Article 27 arguement was not well-founded, which it was not. I highly highly recommend that if you are serious about what we are doing review ALL the transcripts and not just piece read. All the details are at - simply click on the '25 Mile Prohibition Lawsuit' tab and all the transcripts for the whole lawsuit will show up below the tab...

    Oral Arguement Oct. 18th (many important details to come) -

    What is Leave to Amend? Leave to Amend means that the plaintiffs have until Dec. 16th to amend their complaint to have the correct subject-matter in the lawsuit. The plaintiffs have standing and the plaintiffs do NOT have to exhaust their administrative remedies because this is not a review of a decision made by the ADHS.

    Here is an exmple of some Sage advise from the Director...
    Re[e]fer to page 2 -

    CWinAZ likes this.

    Chimone Well-Known Member

    From the sounds of it, and by all means I do not speak lawyer, that this was left open ended by the judge? Almost as a go fix yourself and come back sort of thing? Im just trying to simplify whats going on.
    HB DC

    HB DC Active Member

    In layman terms... Yes.

    thecoolman New Member

    My take of it is the judge ruled the 25 mile law was constitutional that's why I
    am surprised by you
    saying it is legal for a patent inside the zone without a card because of the constitution and its recent healthcare changes. That argument was specifically thrown out. Now the suit has been left open to amend so of course you can argue equal protection which the
    states attorneys discussed at the hearing and are ready for. The problem is this is a harder way to win than the the constitutional healthcare argument that was rejected.

    I do support the cause though and hope for success.

    PS- How much has that scurrilous Belinda Baker and her camp 420
    BS advocacy group donated if you mind me asking? Has this bitch
    even offered to introduce you at a market and solicit donations for you?
    HB DC

    HB DC Active Member

    It is a common law fundamental right called the Physician and doctor priviledge. In addition, Az has it in its state constitution and in the ARS.

    From what you wrote I don't beleive you are understanding what is going on.

    I wish folks would realize - the courts are not over night solutions. And we did not show all our cards simply because we thought we have better success the route we have taken.

    Like I said... We have won already.

    I have asked and advertised (on FB) that I am free to talk at any meetings or gatherings as long as I am invited... Invites-to-date -Zero!
    Have gotten more support from the MMJ Radio (based out of New Mexico) than I have from these folks...
    Have offered us a "free booth" but nothing else, which is not rational because these folks are suppose to be "farmers" at these "farmer markets."
    Talking about giving support is one thing but actually supporting us they have fallen short - like many. Same with NORML, which I have lost all hope and respect for... For very valid reason in which a better medium I could explain, like most things...

    irieie Well-Known Member

    So since you won ;-) I assume you are now growing your own medicine and use and possess your own medicine given your right and the recent ruling. And since you are on the correct side of the law there is no fear in semi openly discussing this here. So what strains are you growing?

    @dman New Member

    Why not take the free booth? So many patients go to the farmers market and what a perfect opportunity to network with them and perhaps get more donations. Also the 'farmers' at the market should have a vested interest in seeing that the 25 mile rule goes away. Those people absolutely LOATHE the dispensaries for the most part and also I have heard vendors talking about their grow rights expiring fairly soon. I don't see why the 'farmers' wouldn't support it and probably donate as there is mucho dinero flowing around there on market day.

    I just moved back to this state after having lived in two other medical states in the past 10 years (CA/WA) but one of the biggest issues that I have is that this state will fight tooth and nail to not allow certain things to happen with medical mmj. That is just a fact. I love to know what I am up against before I get into something. Stuff like edibles which are so important to some medical patients who can't smoke was just officially ok'd by the state? After a few years of the law being on the books? Still no concentrates allowed?

    The last thing the government in this state wants is for a California situation happening, growing everywhere, shops everywhere, everything is just sorta allowed by most law enforcement. This state is like the opposite, the government wanted to fight the law after the voters passed it and still rips the law apart to favor their agenda in how they perceive the law should be implemented. I'm just stating what in my mind we're up against as patients.

    I was involved in all sorts of activism and advocacy when I lived in San Diego in the early/mid 2000s. San Diego is a pretty conservative city and kept sending in the DEA who had a HUGE presence in Southern Cali back then to raid dispensaries. I was in TWO dispensaries as they got raided in less than a year there. Live Cameras Action! Back then it was so appalling because it was CALIFORNIA that this was going on in, which the law was so broad and allowed so much which was smart for those who got it into law. But cities fought back and San Diego still goes after dispensaries when they get too loud or just for the hell of it.

    The biggest thing for activism/advocacy for me was to be out in front and talking to people. Meeting/greeting people with fliers as they walk into the market or going to meetings which it sounds like you've done. I guess my only advice would be that if you are having such a hard time getting support, look at what you are doing and make adjustments. To me it just seems strange that this isn't talked about more at the market or various other AZ advocacy groups aren't supporting it with promoting it or with donations for legal fees. Maybe I'm mistaken.
    HB DC

    HB DC Active Member

    I respect your input my friend... You are 100% right.

    There are a few things I could do better to get the word out there but I am not your average "activist" - truly I don't see myself as one. I love the Creator, the Constitution, and the Cannabis plant (the 3 C's). It is my belief that the Creator endowed me with reason and logic. In addition, the plant was not endowed by man yet man has put his restriction on it... I do not respect the restrictions on the Great Creator's plant and I intend to defend all the Creators works no matter the feat or troubles.. I also value my freedom and do my best to balance my freedom with these feats. I am not a profiteer looking to make a quick buck - like so many that are playing the program (so they think) and it is hurting the folks that truly need this medicine. I do not want any of my fellow earth brothers to go without their medicine or treatment option or a better way of life. I have seen first hand what this plant can do for a cancer patient. I have seen first hand what this plant can do for an AIDS/HIV patient. I have seen what this plant does for patients with Crohns. I have seen this plant allow people to laugh and smile, even though their condition has put them in a dark place but with one toke of cannabis (flowers) that changes. I have seen this plant provide things that words just cannot explain.
    KAL EL

    KAL EL Well-Known Member

    Mothers milk is an awesome strain.

    str8sativa New Member

    \so are you still fighting this in court?
    HB DC

    HB DC Active Member

    And I quote...

    "I have a professional ethical duty to refrain from degrading the Judiciary. Fortunately I've never had to muzzle myself in Maricopa County. But this case is an exception. I was apparent from the scheduling that the Court was never willing to conduct an evdentiary hearing. That's why I consider the proceeding a sham and the Judgement void. The Court could still attempt to conceal its ineptitude by claiming clerical error, but that does not cure the lack of reasoning and judical authority for the conclusion."

    Azoned Well-Known Member

    got a couple of Q's
    1] Does the state expect the 4% that have grow rights to supply the rest?
    2] And how big will those grows have to be?
    3] And will the fed allow such?
    4] How do [or if] economics with prices and the "Uninterrupted Supply" clause play off ea other.
    HB DC

    HB DC Active Member

    Letter from M.Walz:


    thecoolman New Member

    Maybe but my patients are not into a milk smell...LOl
    HB DC

    HB DC Active Member


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