Led Growing Is The Way Of The Future My Friends

J

jdizzle22

Well-Known Member
Harrekin said:
Also saying a 400w HPS and a 600w HPS are similar is ludacris man, a 600w HPS puts out double the light of a 400w.

Also, Iv read alot of people saying they use like 200 3w LEDs but only pull like 280w of power...whats the point of the 3w LEDs then?

EDIT: Must be a shitty 1000w MH you have...
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Its because the diodes are reliably pulsed or something at a max wattage of say 1w or 2w or 3w. But you can't continuously run them at that wattage or they would very quickly burn out. 1w diodes are the most efficient with turning power into useable plant light and little heat waste, but they lack penetration. 3w diodes are what are used in the best now and they run anywhere from 50-75% of that 3w depending on what wavelength and diode/company used. A 3w diode may not be as efficient as 3 1w diodes, but it will have a better footprint/penetration than the 3 1w (this is why a panel of 3w is better than 1w). My 395w panel is about 18w into 6 fans and the rest into 252 3w diodes (several reds, couple blues, white, couple orange, whatever and it ends up to 12 wavelengths). It is definitely much better than my 400w Super HPS with digital ballast, and I imagine could spar with a 600w HID even.

I don't mean to say most HID light is useless, some wavelengths are not as useful as others, but it is true that a lot of the power going into MH/HPS is wasted as useless lumens/heat/wavelengths that are not useful to plants (and this is where LED can get better than HID because you can eliminate so much of that waste (75% less heat watt for watt as HPS it seems too, thats a lot of power going into light instead of useless lumens or heat like with HID).
 
Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
jdizzle22 said:
I don't mean to say most HID light is useless, some wavelengths are not as useful as others, but it is true that a lot of the power going into MH/HPS is wasted as useless lumens/heat/wavelengths that are not useful to plants (and this is where LED can get better than HID because you can eliminate so much of that waste (75% less heat watt for watt as HPS it seems too, thats a lot of power going into light instead of useless lumens or heat like with HID).
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Per watt, LED's might be able to compete or beat HID's, but when it comes to grams per sq ft, bud size, etc LED isn't anywhere close to being able to compete with HPS lights. Very few people have unlimited indoor grow space or plant limits. Considering the value of bud vs production costs using HID's, most people are still over all much better off using HID lighting. Power efficiency isn't the dominant variable when considering what is best for a grow in most cases, G's per sq ft is. As far as I'm aware, no LED can touch a 1000w HPS in terms of G's per Sq ft.
 
jamaicanskunk

jamaicanskunk

Active Member
manfish said:
Actually someone did a comparison between led's and mh & hps...identical grow rooms...identical plants...same light schedule...same nutes...EVERYTHING totally identical...there was no appreciable difference in plant size...quality or yeild...the big difference was cost of electricity for the mh and the hps versus the led's, and of course the price of the led grow lights
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I find that hard to believe since there is a big difference in lumens getting through. which means way less dense buds, which means less weight, which means not the same results
 
J

jdizzle22

Well-Known Member
jamaicanskunk said:
I find that hard to believe since there is a big difference in lumens getting through. which means way less dense buds, which means less weight, which means not the same results
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Lumens are not a good way to measure any light because lumens are for humans not plants. Lumens isn't a measure of how much light there is for plants is how much light there is for people to see, like candle power (candles are not very good for growing plants). You will get more lumens with HID watt for watt probably, but not as much useful plant light.
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
jdizzle22 said:
Its because the diodes are reliably pulsed or something at a max wattage of say 1w or 2w or 3w. But you can't continuously run them at that wattage or they would very quickly burn out. 1w diodes are the most efficient with turning power into useable plant light and little heat waste, but they lack penetration. 3w diodes are what are used in the best now and they run anywhere from 50-75% of that 3w depending on what wavelength and diode/company used. A 3w diode may not be as efficient as 3 1w diodes, but it will have a better footprint/penetration than the 3 1w (this is why a panel of 3w is better than 1w). My 395w panel is about 18w into 6 fans and the rest into 252 3w diodes (several reds, couple blues, white, couple orange, whatever and it ends up to 12 wavelengths). It is definitely much better than my 400w Super HPS with digital ballast, and I imagine could spar with a 600w HID even.

I don't mean to say most HID light is useless, some wavelengths are not as useful as others, but it is true that a lot of the power going into MH/HPS is wasted as useless lumens/heat/wavelengths that are not useful to plants (and this is where LED can get better than HID because you can eliminate so much of that waste (75% less heat watt for watt as HPS it seems too, thats a lot of power going into light instead of useless lumens or heat like with HID).
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How many years would you have to run it for to the save even the initial cost difference between a 600w HPS and your LED?

Let us see!

Unit price here is about 14c (€), 600w light is 0.6 of a unit per hour, so 14c x 0.6= 8.4c an hour to run. Multiply this by 12, then by 31 and we get €31.24 per month to run.

Your 395w panel with the above math costs €20.57 per month to run.

The difference between them is €10.67 a month.

Now it gets interesting... your panel cost $1100 which is approx €846. My 600w light cost €175.
The difference between them is thus €671.

So before you actually save ANY money with the LED, you need to use it for nearly 63 months before you save even a cent, thats 5 YEARS and 3 months.
(Initial cost difference divided by the electricity savings per month)

PLEASE try justify to me how the LED is worth it?

EDIT: Do people not actually check this shit out before they spend $1100 on something? No wonder we had a financial meltdown...
 
newworldicon

newworldicon

Well-Known Member
Harrekin said:
How many years would you have to run it for to the save even the initial cost difference between a 600w HPS and your LED?

Let us see!

Unit price here is about 14c (€), 600w light is 0.6 of a unit per hour, so 14c x 0.6= 8.4c an hour to run. Multiply this by 12, then by 31 and we get €31.24 per month to run.

Your 395w panel with the above math costs €20.57 per month to run.

The difference between them is €10.67 a month.

Now it gets interesting... your panel cost $1100 which is approx €846. My 600w light cost €175.
The difference between them is thus €671.

So before you actually save ANY money with the LED, you need to use it for nearly 63 months before you save even a cent, thats 5 YEARS and 3 months.
(Initial cost difference divided by the electricity savings per month)

PLEASE try justify to me how the LED is worth it?

EDIT: Do people not actually check this shit out before they spend $1100 on something? No wonder we had a financial meltdown...
Click to expand...
Please explain how buying LED's is tantamount to financial meltdown??
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Because noone obviously compared the actual saving to the implied saving that people seem to keep throwing around with "its so much cheaper on electricity", its complete fantasy...long story short, some people need to do a bit of research before they fling away (relatively) large sums of money on a whim.

LEDs at the moment are good as a "novelty" grow light or if you live in a desert, but they are WAY overpriced for their actual performance. Ill be the first to fill a room with them when they're priced for people with a bit more common-sense, but I think by then induction lighting will be taking off to be honest (and still be way cheaper than LED even by current prices).

EDIT: I mean can none of the LED users just keep their temps in check with HID and save nearly a thousand quid?!
 
snew

snew

Well-Known Member
Harrekin said:
Because noone obviously compared the actual saving to the implied saving that people seem to keep throwing around with "its so much cheaper on electricity", its complete fantasy...long story short, some people need to do a bit of research before they fling away (relatively) large sums of money on a whim.

LEDs at the moment are good as a "novelty" grow light or if you live in a desert, but they are WAY overpriced for their actual performance. Ill be the first to fill a room with them when they're priced for people with a bit more common-sense, but I think by then induction lighting will be taking off to be honest (and still be way cheaper than LED even by current prices).

EDIT: I mean can none of the LED users just keep their temps in check with HID and save nearly a thousand quid?!
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Have you considered increase cost of cooling, (and the cost of buying a bigger A/C), replacement of bulbs, more fans than the plants to keep the heat off of the plant. I ran extra power to my room, I would not have had I started with LED.
Have you ever worked a business plan. If you can recoup your cost 5 years and start saving money, most business borrow money to do that. I start looking at products that can recoup the up front in 2-7 years. The longevity of the product must be considered.
Electricity must be 1 cent a kilo-what if you run you HPS, fans, chiller and dehumidifier for $60. My calculations for my 1000w watt alone is $50 a month, (I get very, cheap electricity) now in the winter that light supplies heat to my house so I recoup a large amount of cost in heat during the winter. That same heat makes it unusable in the summer for me.
And do we get a tax credit for switching to LED? I think we should, all you LED users write you congressman and tell how we're being mistreated. Oh that right is illegal in most states. That's the other side for those who stealth is important, the smaller heat signature, and lower electricity cost are easier to hide. Decrease risk. Any risk assessment guys out there?
All costs need to be counted.
Every year the margins will get closer. Every year the switch will be wise for some for different reasons.
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Dude this isnt a "business" and if you wanna delude yourself cos you blew that much cash on a light that's just "ok" for its price, as opposed to a HPS which is "awesome" for its price then fire away, but until they come down in price theres very little advantage to them. You still have to ventilate and circulate the air in your room so you still need that gear, so I dont see your point?

As I said before, if growing with a HPS is impossible due to insane heat where you live, an LED is an option, but its a HUGELY overpriced option.

Its like they see growers coming sometimes.
 
newworldicon

newworldicon

Well-Known Member
Harrekin said:
Because noone obviously compared the actual saving to the implied saving that people seem to keep throwing around with "its so much cheaper on electricity", its complete fantasy...long story short, some people need to do a bit of research before they fling away (relatively) large sums of money on a whim.

LEDs at the moment are good as a "novelty" grow light or if you live in a desert, but they are WAY overpriced for their actual performance. Ill be the first to fill a room with them when they're priced for people with a bit more common-sense, but I think by then induction lighting will be taking off to be honest (and still be way cheaper than LED even by current prices).

EDIT: I mean can none of the LED users just keep their temps in check with HID and save nearly a thousand quid?!
Click to expand...
Thank god!!! For a second there I thought the new world order was behind the LED phenomenon....
 
IAm5toned

IAm5toned

Well-Known Member
jdizzle22 said:
You're a bit wrong and right there. Lets say we have a true 100w LED from a great company, and a 100w HPS from a great company. The 100w LED will wipe the floor with the 100w HPS because it has focused reflecting lens on every LED, light production is spread over a greater area, wavelengths are all targeted so no power is wasted on useless spectrums and lots of heat like with HID.

You can definitely grow more plant with less power using LED, I'd say half as much power as HID if you get it from one of the best LED companies. It also seems from people that go with the better companies for their LED panels, they report that their finished bud is of a higher quality. My 395w LED panel (252x3w LEDs + 6x3w fans), is definitely kicking more ass than my 400w Super HPS with digital ballast was doing (much better penetration, WAY more trichomes). I've never grown with a 600w HID but I imagine its at least as good as one with how much better it is than my 400. But the thing set me back $1100 (give or take $50), I don't mind because it will easily recoup its costs with the first harvest, and there is so much less heat (25% as much or less I'd say).

Unfortunately I won't be saving that much money because the panel uses 395w and I suppose a 400w + a digital ballast isn't that much more. I should have only gotten perhaps a 290w, because with the panel I have its 62w of uber LED per square foot and i probably only needed 35w which yeah works out to needing about half as much wattage with good LED as with good HPS
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do you even know what the inverse square law is?
 
newworldicon

newworldicon

Well-Known Member
@Harrekin....how does this personally affect your life???? Probably not in the slightest so let LED users go about there business and you go about yours....
 
IAm5toned

IAm5toned

Well-Known Member
snew said:
Have you considered increase cost of cooling, (and the cost of buying a bigger A/C), replacement of bulbs, more fans than the plants to keep the heat off of the plant. I ran extra power to my room, I would not have had I started with LED.
Have you ever worked a business plan. If you can recoup your cost 5 years and start saving money, most business borrow money to do that. I start looking at products that can recoup the up front in 2-7 years. The longevity of the product must be considered.
Electricity must be 1 cent a kilo-what if you run you HPS, fans, chiller and dehumidifier for $60. My calculations for my 1000w watt alone is $50 a month, (I get very, cheap electricity) now in the winter that light supplies heat to my house so I recoup a large amount of cost in heat during the winter. That same heat makes it unusable in the summer for me.
And do we get a tax credit for switching to LED? I think we should, all you LED users write you congressman and tell how we're being mistreated. Oh that right is illegal in most states. That's the other side for those who stealth is important, the smaller heat signature, and lower electricity cost are easier to hide. Decrease risk. Any risk assessment guys out there?
All costs need to be counted.
Every year the margins will get closer. Every year the switch will be wise for some for different reasons.
Click to expand...
i hate to burst your bubble... but induction lighting is nothing but a HO floro....the only difference between an 'induction' lamp, and a reg floro... is how the ballast operates.
good luck with that.
 
max316420

max316420

Well-Known Member
Well OP good luck on selling your LED's but you won't see me buyin them, I'll stick to what I KNOW works HPS... and anytime you wanna have a " grow off" your LED's vs. MY HPS... But I wouldn't wanna embarrass you and your lights lol..
 
snew

snew

Well-Known Member
Harrekin said:
Dude this isnt a "business" and if you wanna delude yourself cos you blew that much cash on a light that's just "ok" for its price, as opposed to a HPS which is "awesome" for its price then fire away, but until they come down in price theres very little advantage to them. You still have to ventilate and circulate the air in your room so you still need that gear, so I dont see your point?

As I said before, if growing with a HPS is impossible due to insane heat where you live, an LED is an option, but its a HUGELY overpriced option.

Its like they see growers coming sometimes.
Click to expand...
You right its not business for me, either. However, the model you know "cost evaluation" that businesses use "Is Applicable" . I'm not saying that I think it is a good chose in many situations, I use HPS when I can and prefer it. But you need to count the true cost and it involves the extra cooling, extra circulations, and if you run 1000w you have LARGER, A/C, vent, circulation, etc., unless your in a commercial building you ran extra electricity that can be a big up front cost. You cost evaluation IS off. YOUR COST EVALUATION IS OFF.
For many people using LED its not a chose of HPS or LED its florescent. For me the chose to try LED is this summer means I can grow.
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
newworldicon said:
@Harrekin....how does this personally affect your life???? Probably not in the slightest so let LED users go about there business and you go about yours....
Click to expand...
Iv no problem with people using LED's, but the amount of bullshit spread about them is unreal. You know why they are that expensive? Because thats what the gullible will pay, average light, hugely above average price.

And sorry IAm5toned, I ment Microwave Induced Sulphur Plasma lighting, not just Induction Lighting. Give the plasma lights 5 years, then all your LED panels will go to: http://www.willitblend.com
 
J

jdubman

Well-Known Member
Harrekin said:
Iv no problem with people using LED's, but the amount of bullshit spread about them is unreal. You know why they are that expensive? Because thats what the gullible will pay, average light, hugely above average price.

And sorry IAm5toned, I ment Microwave Induced Sulphur Plasma lighting, not just Induction Lighting. Give the plasma lights 5 years, then all your LED panels will go to: http://www.willitblend.com
Click to expand...
This is what I said earlier... LED's will never hit the price to performance ratio that it needs to be in order to be a option. Plasma lighting will be the next biggest thing.
Ask yourself this, The largest Cannabis market right now is SoCal. Look at the biggest online and storefront hydro supplier companies in that area. You won't find a single
LED light on their site. My good friend owns one of those companies and he knows the products, industry and hobby more than anyone.

Dub
 
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