Joe Biden's political missteps

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
"corporations direct political policy", said it right there in the post

Corporate interests run both the Republican and the Democratic party. Republicans largely don't care because many of them are single issue voters who really only care which candidate wants to murder babies and which doesn't. Democrats pretend like they don't, and gaslight and votershame. I don't see how you can expect to fix this problem without even acknowledging it first, and until you do, Republicans will continue to win elections.
"Democrats are why Republicans tried to dismantle the ACA and otherwise block single payer healthcare".

For the life of me, I can't understand how you could have allowed yourself to become so brainwashed.

If you want to see the policies you so loudly proclaim, vote for Democrats.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
"Democrats are why Republicans tried to dismantle the ACA and otherwise block single payer healthcare".

For the life of me, I can't understand how you could have allowed yourself to become so brainwashed.

If you want to see the policies you so loudly proclaim, vote for Democrats.
Textbook strawman argument

1590465996145.png

Corporations have owned American politicians since the beginning, and that's not exclusive to the Republican party. It's why more than 80% of registered Democrats support universal healthcare while fewer than a handful of Democrats in congress do. Biden doesn't incase you were wondering.
 

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
Textbook strawman argument

View attachment 4576713

Corporations have owned American politicians since the beginning, and that's not exclusive to the Republican party. It's why more than 80% of registered Democrats support universal healthcare while fewer than a handful of Democrats in congress do. Biden doesn't incase you were wondering.
Nope. One would think that you would know what a straw man argument is better than you do. Most of your prattle is in its form.
 
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Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Textbook strawman argument

View attachment 4576713

Corporations have owned American politicians since the beginning, and that's not exclusive to the Republican party. It's why more than 80% of registered Democrats support universal healthcare while fewer than a handful of Democrats in congress do. Biden doesn't incase you were wondering.
Wyden, Merkley and DeFazio all have good records of supporting progressive legislation. As good as St Bernie's. So,, what's your beef. Be specific. What have they done that causes you to say corporations own them.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
"corporations direct political policy", said it right there in the post

Corporate interests run both the Republican and the Democratic party. Republicans largely don't care because many of them are single issue voters who really only care which candidate wants to murder babies and which doesn't. Democrats pretend like they don't, and gaslight and votershame. I don't see how you can expect to fix this problem without even acknowledging it first, and until you do, Republicans will continue to win elections.


With liars like yourself spreading the bullshit you are trying really hard to help Republicans hold onto power. Everything about your character here is to troll the Democratic party.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
If you don't believe corporations influence legislation, you're too ignorant to hold a valid opinion of politics

You can't fix the problem if you deny it exists
Walk back your corporate 'run' the party to 'influence'?

Sure they influence politics. It doesn't mean that it is a bad thing. Corporations are not the enemy.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
If you don't believe corporations influence legislation, you're too ignorant to hold a valid opinion of politics

You can't fix the problem if you deny it exists
Be specific. All you are doing is reciting propaganda canards and sweeping generalities.
Referring to the propaganda techniques flash cards, yours is number two in the deck:

glittering generality
emotionally appealing words that are applied to a product or idea, but that present no concrete argument or analysis

Tell me specifically, what has any of my congressmen done that is corrupt? They rate highly in their support for progressive issues. Yet you call them corrupt. Explain with facts.

I can't fix a problem that is a propaganda trick.
 

potroastV2

Well-Known Member
Be specific. All you are doing is reciting propaganda canards and sweeping generalities.
Referring to the propaganda techniques flash cards, yours is number two in the deck:

glittering generality
emotionally appealing words that are applied to a product or idea, but that present no concrete argument or analysis

Tell me specifically, what has any of my congressmen done that is corrupt? They rate highly in their support for progressive issues. Yet you call them corrupt. Explain with facts.

I can't fix a problem that is a propaganda trick.

Well, even though padawan lives in California, his area must be a republican stronghold, because his Congressman is Kevin McCarthy!

That guy is republican scum!


:mrgreen:
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Well, even though padawan lives in California, his area must be a republican stronghold, because his Congressman is Kevin McCarthy!

That guy is republican scum!


:mrgreen:
Yeah, the rep in his area is Kevin McCarthy, a Republican. Yet Pad keeps droning on as if he were a Democrat.
 
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Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Be specific. All you are doing is reciting propaganda canards and sweeping generalities.
Referring to the propaganda techniques flash cards, yours is number two in the deck:

glittering generality
emotionally appealing words that are applied to a product or idea, but that present no concrete argument or analysis

Tell me specifically, what has any of my congressmen done that is corrupt? They rate highly in their support for progressive issues. Yet you call them corrupt. Explain with facts.

I can't fix a problem that is a propaganda trick.
I'm not referring to any one specific member of congress, I'm referring to congress at large, and I'll reiterate, you're unqualified to discuss anything political if you don't believe special interests, in this case, corporations, influence the policy of both political parties

Marco Rubio was asked about the money he received from the NRA and how that influenced his opinion on gun control legislation, his response was something like "How do you know the NRA doesn't support me because they support my position on gun control legislation?", highlighting the con being perpetuated; we don't - that's the idea. We don't know whether the NRA supports Rubio because of his position on gun control or if Rubio holds that position on gun control because the NRA supports him and donates to his campaign(s). It's purposefully kept vague and ambiguous to give his supporters wiggle room to claim the former while anyone with a functioning brain knows it's the latter.

Same thing with climate change, drug policy, healthcare, et al.





 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I'm not referring to any one specific member of congress, I'm referring to congress at large, and I'll reiterate, you're unqualified to discuss anything political if you don't believe special interests, in this case, corporations, influence the policy of both political parties

Marco Rubio was asked about the money he received from the NRA and how that influenced his opinion on gun control legislation, his response was something like "How do you know the NRA doesn't support me because they support my position on gun control legislation?", highlighting the con being perpetuated; we don't - that's the idea. We don't know whether the NRA supports Rubio because of his position on gun control or if Rubio holds that position on gun control because the NRA supports him and donates to his campaign(s). It's purposefully kept vague and ambiguous to give his supporters wiggle room to claim the former while anyone with a functioning brain knows it's the latter.

Same thing with climate change, drug policy, healthcare, et al.





We don't vote for Congress as a whole and by referring to "Congress", then saying "corrupt", you are reciting a Glittering Generality.

It is true that Republicans are well known to enter lobbyist-written legislation and get it passed into law without changing a word. It might be true that some Democrats are. I've gone through the records of my congressmen -- DeFazio, Merkley and Wyden -- looking for the kinds of things you refer to and I'm not finding it.

Your glittering generality breaks down when details are introduced into the argument.

In any case, what do you propose I do? Kick my Democratic reps out by voting for Republicans? How would voting for the Republican on the ticket in the fall do anything to further the goals your "Progressives" say they want enacted.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
It is true that Republicans are well known to enter lobbyist-written legislation and get it passed into law without changing a word. It might be true that some Democrats are.

 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I'm not referring to any one specific member of congress, I'm referring to congress at large, and I'll reiterate, you're unqualified to discuss anything political if you don't believe special interests, in this case, corporations, influence the policy of both political parties

Weren't you saying how corporations control all politicians? Nice walking it back to be able to pose a question that is correct, but has nothing to do with what you have been saying to try to paint it as 'both sides'.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member

Weren't you saying how corporations control all politicians? Nice walking it back to be able to pose a question that is correct, but has nothing to do with what you have been saying to try to paint it as 'both sides'.
You're not qualified to talk about politics
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member

So, a Florida politician who isn't even corrupt by the standards of that state is why I should vote for Oregon Republicans this fall in Oregon? Their diffferences on the issues that are important to me are huge. Oregonian Republicans support crushing latino communities, repealing abortion, repealing laws that protect the environment, not to mention their resistance to campaign finance reforms and actions to reduce carbon emissions. All of which my Democratic party congressmen support the opposite.

Come on, man. You are saying they ALL are corrupt. If that's true, then mine are. I can't find a single reference to back up that claim.

Again, my guys are all very good supporters for progressive issues. Are you saying I have to vote for Republicans because of Wasserman?
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
So, a Florida politician who isn't even corrupt by the standards of that state is why I should vote for Oregon Republicans this fall in Oregon? Their diffferences on the issues that are important to me are huge. Oregonian Republicans support crushing latino communities, repealing abortion, repealing laws that protect the environment, not to mention their resistance to campaign finance reforms and actions to reduce carbon emissions. All of which my Democratic party congressmen support the opposite.

Come on, man. You are saying they ALL are corrupt. If that's true, then mine are. I can't find a single reference to back up that claim.

Again, my guys are all very good supporters for progressive issues. Are you saying I have to vote for Republicans because of Wasserman?
You can carry on with your strawman as long as you want, I'm not going to entertain it

I said corporate interests influence political policy, and both parties are guilty of it, and members of blue MAGA like you deny it. Until you acknowledge it, you can't hope to fix it. So the idea that we need to vote for Democrats to fix things like income/wealth inequality, poverty, healthcare, etc. is wrong because the evidence shows most of them - enough of them - just support whatever interest is influenced by their corporate donors anyway. The only reason you support them is because they're measurably better on social issues, because economic issues don't matter to you, because they don't affect you. Viewing it through that lense disenfranchises millions of potential votes that would have otherwise gone to the Democratic candidate.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I said corporate interests influence political policy, and both parties are guilty of it, and members of blue MAGA like you deny it.
True, but only the Republicans have been shown to have been getting money funneled to them by the Russians through laundering companies like the NRA. Working through people like Butina to honey pot the dirty old GOP.



As much as I am not a fan of our political donations and election system, it is stopping the foreign money and dishonest trolls being used to spread the lies Dear Leader needs to get re-elected.


I still crack up at Bannan slipped up saying this was so obviously a plant that he had a clear answer so ready.

So the idea that we need to vote for Democrats to fix things like income/wealth inequality, poverty, healthcare, etc. is wrong because the evidence shows most of them - enough of them - just support whatever interest is influenced by their corporate donors anyway. T
And you do realize that those 'corporate donors' are not telling the congressional Democrats to keep people in poverty and not getting them healthcare right? That is just you making up something that sounds all edgy and 'them'.

The only reason you support them is because they're measurably better on social issues, because economic issues don't matter to you, because they don't affect you. Viewing it through that lense disenfranchises millions of potential votes that would have otherwise gone to the Democratic candidate.
"Marginal" has many degrees. It is a gigantic margin at the moment in how Democrats represent the entire countries needs vs the Republicans who are strictly focused on maintaining the Wealthy White Heterosexual Male Only agenda alive and strong.
 
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