Jack's 321 Questions

IMO, all salts will leach moisture from the air if possible.

I know this is a Jack's thread but does anyone have experience with Masterblend 4-18-38, calnit and epsom salts or perhaps can help me with understanding what tweeks it needs. Below is a print out of the analysis.

even if the salts do hold a small amount of moisture its not enough to throw your weights off to a degree that it would cause a change worth noting

shawnery said:

I know this is a Jack's thread but does anyone have experience with Masterblend 4-18-38, calnit and epsom salts or perhaps can help me with understanding what tweeks it needs. Below is a print out of the analysis.

Click to expand...

that mix ratio will work for late bloom
youll want to bump the Mg to 50ppm or to half the Ca

this formula works well for late bloom but, it does have a very high level of P proportionately

and the mix ratio you have is fine but the overall EC is going to be about 25% to high so id recommend diluting it so the ratio looks the same but with lower numbers

for example

75 N
75 P
150 K
75 Ca
40 Mg

EC 1.3 or 1.4 im guessing

personally id not run N that low or P that high in early bloom but its good for late bloom


heres what id shoot for in early bloom

85 - 90 N
50 P +/- 20ppm
140 K
75 Ca
40 Mg

What do I need to do for veg because that's what I'm using at this moment

shawnery said:

What do I need to do for veg because that's what I'm using at this moment

Click to expand...

Here is Master Blend, Cal Nite and Epsom targeted for mid veg. I saw that you had a bunch of other stuff in your quiver and I started to add some, but Hydro Buddy doesn't have fields for things like cobalt and nickle, plus chasing down the Density of liquid nutes I find to be a PITA, so I just whipped up a veg mix for the 3 part. If you want more, or want to tweak, retweak, reretweak etc, you'll have to get Hydro Buddy, read my tutorial, input all the details your self and get to tweaking. To figure out Density, you have to divide the net weight in kg, by the number of ml in that bottle.



https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/making-your-own-nutrient-concentrates.455187/

shawnery said:

What do I need to do for veg because that's what I'm using at this moment

Click to expand...

for veg I personally run (at full strength)

N 117
P 50 (high for veg but ive got hard water and im adding in my ph adjustment)
K 132
Ca 80
Mg 40

FYI, the numbers with 0% gross error, I did not give targets. I just targeted N-P-K-Ca-Mg-S

shawnery said:

I know this is a Jack's thread but does anyone have experience with Masterblend 4-18-38, calnit and epsom salts or perhaps can help me with understanding what tweeks it needs. Below is a print out of the analysis.

Click to expand...

While we don't use 4-18-38 ( + Cal/Nitrate/Mg.... we use something quite close.
Chem Gro...4-20-39. Also with Calcium Nitrate, and Epsom Salts

While its my buddy doing the mixing, he uses Promix BX as a Medium.

But in the earliest stages he uses basically 10%-15% of recommended dose per 5 gallons water, and feed each watering. As the seedlings get bigger, PPM goes up.
Im pretty sure he starts with 1/2 tsp per 5 gallons water for base nutrients, and Cal/Nitrate. And 40% of a TSP Epsom Salts. Feed each watering.

Heres the Chem Gro schedule, but like I said he uses a modified version, as ours is Promix BX, and will hold more fertilizer salts vs many other Hydr Type Mediums, so to compensate, we give much less food, but more often.
Its also a myth plants flowering need LESS NITROGEN. Exact Opposite is true.

All Nitrogen to a plant, is Protein. Humans eat meat/fish, beans/rice to get protein, and we turn it into Nitrogen, so its totally illogical to think when your doing your fastest growth, its logical to limit Nitrogen.
In a 8 weeks flowering strain, Nitrogen is needed all the way until the 6thweeks, and then are only Slightly cut back. Thing is back in the 80s a myth started that Nitrogen in flower will fuck with flowering, of which it 100% WILL IF you give it to much, or out of balance. It can totally stop flowering, but its still crucil for bud development.

As is P/K/Mag, and they all also keep going up in PPM until weeks 6.

In weeks 3-4 MPK is added for 2 weeks only. They don't need MPK after week 4, but, the base formula does still slightly increase. But you miss the window if you don't concentrate on MPK in weeks 3-4 in an 8 weeks flowering strain.

In weeks 5-6, Magnesium is greatly increased. Weeks 7-8, its slightly backed off of everything.

These people have been making Plant Specific fertilizer since the 60s, and use Tissue Analysis for their determinations.

They also offer a Tissue Analysis option.

Heres the guide we use.

4-20-39 Recipe 2017

Skybound420 said:

Here is Master Blend, Cal Nite and Epsom targeted for mid veg. I saw that you had a bunch of other stuff in your quiver and I started to add some, but Hydro Buddy doesn't have fields for things like cobalt and nickle, plus chasing down the Density of liquid nutes I find to be a PITA, so I just whipped up a veg mix for the 3 part. If you want more, or want to tweak, retweak, reretweak etc, you'll have to get Hydro Buddy, read my tutorial, input all the details your self and get to tweaking. To figure out Density, you have to divide the net weight in kg, by the number of ml in that bottle.

View attachment 4235290

https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/making-your-own-nutrient-concentrates.455187/

Click to expand...

try that again but raise the master blend up a pinch until the K is 135ppm and then lower the Calinte to bring the N back in range if needed

im4satori said:

for veg I personally run (at full strength)

N 117
P 50 (high for veg but ive got hard water and im adding in my ph adjustment)
K 132
Ca 80
Mg 40

Click to expand...

Here's MB 3 part with these targets

By adding in the Dyno-Gro and other products you have, Hydro Buddy will be able to better refine everything to get you much closer to your targets. FWIW, as far as I know, the micro ranges I have for bloom can also be used for Veg if you want to target any of them. When I mix, aside from targeting Iron, I also target my Zinc to 0.2ppm, and the app figures out the best ratio of Jack's - GH Flora Micro (or whatever supplemental source of micros used).

Why is my calculator giving me slightly different numbers but close on most of it? My plan is to add 4g of masterblend, 16g of Cal/Nit and 14g of epsom salt. That will get me to the doses supplied on the analysis sheet below if I add the above to my 24/24/16 per 20gal already mixed. Is there something I'm missing or am I seeing this right?

Then my plan is to replace half the nutrient solution in my system with distilled(waiting for ro filters) to better match my ec to high pressure aeroponic and should be around 350 or so.

shawnery said:

Why is my calculator giving me slightly different numbers but close on most of it? My plan is to add 4g of masterblend, 16g of Cal/Nit and 14g of epsom salt. That will get me to the doses supplied on the analysis sheet below if I add the above to my 24/24/16 per 20gal already mixed. Is there something I'm missing or am I seeing this right?

Then my plan is to replace half the nutrient solution in my system with distilled(waiting for ro filters) to better match my ec to high pressure aeroponic and should be around 350 or so.

Click to expand...

I just checked the math
theres something wrong with that calculator your using

veg

4-18-38 mix 1.5 grams per gallon
calcium nitrate 1.75 grams per gallon
magnesium sulfate 1 grams per gallon
magnesium nitrate 1 gram per gallon
N 117
P 31
K 125
Ca 88
Mg 52

early bloom

4-18-38 mix 1.75 grams per gallon
calcium nitrate 1.75 grams per gallon
magnesium sulfate 1.5 grams per gallon

N 90
P 36
K 148
Ca 88
Mg 38

late bloom

4-18-38 mix 1.75 grams per gallon
calcium nitrate 1.4 grams per gallon
magnesium sulfate 1.5 grams per gallon

N 75
P 36
K 146
Ca 70
Mg 38

You can figure the ACTUAL amount of P by multiplying the label# by 0.44 and the K amount by 0.83.

Thanks!

I I got to redo my math,

I HATE MATH!

shawnery said:

Thanks!

I I got to redo my math,

I HATE MATH!

Click to expand...

Download Hydro Buddy. It does all the math.

So I went by the veg numbers and added,

6g to 24g of fert to make 30g or 1.5g per gal for 20gal.
11g to 24g of calnit to make 35g or 1.75g per gal for 20gal.
4g to 16g of epsom to make 20g or 1g per gal for 20gal.

Ended with a 459ppm, .5 scale, which is still a bit on the high end for aero but atleast the percentages are better. Hopefully this will help with the purple branches and streaking on the stem.

Thanks guys!

shawnery said:

So I went by the veg numbers and added,

6g to 24g of fert to make 30g or 1.5g per gal for 20gal.
11g to 24g of calnit to make 35g or 1.75g per gal for 20gal.
4g to 16g of epsom to make 20g or 1g per gal for 20gal.

Ended with a 459ppm, .5 scale, which is still a bit on the high end for aero but atleast the percentages are better. Hopefully this will help with the purple branches and streaking on the stem.

Thanks guys!

Click to expand...

I didn't follow or figure your math on the weights

but on the 459ppm on 5 scale

that's a conversion of EC 0.9 which is usually low for a full sized and or established plant in veg

id expect your magic number to be somewhere around EC1.2ish for aero

treat your reservoir with these rules and keep a daily log or journal so you can see the changes over a long time span

EC goes up and or PH goes down = over feeding or root disease

EC goes down fast and ph goes up fast = under feeding

ideal;
EC goes down slowly and ph drifts up slowly over time

the speed at which these changes take place are also directly related to your reservoir size... an under sized or over sized reservoir can be a big factor in how fast the reservoir changes