Jack's 321 Questions

Skybound420 said:

I've been making a shit load of headway thanks to the knowledge and wisdom that @im4satori shared with me and just wanted to link my feed charts and 7 components I'll be using (also linked in the post).

http://www.rollitup.org/t/jacks-jr-peters-nutrients.850683/page-35#post-14501526

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Where are you at with this bud. I just re read through all this and saw you transition to an understanding and I’m in the same process currently.
After the initial switch I had 1 strain go slightly Ca Deficient, but I can tell my plant are already as high on Nitrogen as I’d like to take it. I added Cal-Mag Plus @ 2ml a Gallon and am ordering the Calcium EDTA. Working on understanding how to use the HydroBuddy as well. My RO water Ph is about 6.2. After adding @ 2.4 A/ 1.6 B/ 0.8 C my ph was 5.1 then brought to 5.8. After 2 days the largest plant ppm dropped around 200ppm and and ph raised to 6.4. Redropped today to 5.8.

I made a post on my home forum on how to use HydroBuddy. I have a bunch of notes too, but I collected and shared them here as well. Here's the HB thread,

https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/making-your-own-nutrient-concentrates.455187/

Skybound420 said:

I made a post on my home forum on how to use HydroBuddy. I have a bunch of notes too, but I collected and shared them here as well. Here's the HB thread,

https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/making-your-own-nutrient-concentrates.455187/

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Thank you.

Didn't see this mentioned here, so I thought I'd chime in.

Users of calcium nitrate need to be aware that this salt really likes to collect water from the air, so much so that it throws the weight off. You end up using less calnit than is called for. One way around this is to weigh the Jack's, then use an equal amount by VOLUME of calnit. This will get you very close to the 3/2 ratio. Weighing the calnit will leave you lacking.

shimz said:

Didn't see this mentioned here, so I thought I'd chime in.

Users of calcium nitrate need to be aware that this salt really likes to collect water from the air, so much so that it throws the weight off. You end up using less calnit than is called for. One way around this is to weigh the Jack's, then use an equal amount by VOLUME of calnit. This will get you very close to the 3/2 ratio. Weighing the calnit will leave you lacking.

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It's my experience that all salts will pull moisture from the surrounding air, but that was a good point to make. I notice epsom salt likes to clump up in the bag too. I store all my dries in a tote with desiccant packs and that helps some. If I feel that the desiccants aren't helping enough, I'd spread the salt on a cookie sheet and bake on low for an hour or two. I once built a compressed air dryer that used silica and I had to do this to dry that material, and also need to do this with 3D printer filament in the humid months. I think baking salts would be a safe and viable way to reconstitute the weights.

Skybound420 said:

I think baking salts would be a safe and viable way to reconstitute the weights.

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Agreed. Once happy with the dried weights, one can go by volume afterward and not have to worry about the extra water weight.

shimz said:

Agreed. Once happy with the dried weights, one can go by volume afterward and not have to worry about the extra water weight.

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I’m going to have to measure how much it takes to get the ec/ppm I require per gallon and just multiply from there see how far off it is.

Yep, another good method is to mix to EC targets and forgo weighing and volume measuring entirely.

i keep my salts in gamma seal buckets, this has done me well so far

Jacks 321 all the way!

The only problems I’ve had with jack are N and calcium but after reading the previous post about dry weights I adjusted. Ph swings were a pain to get under control. I read this article about Ammonium nitrogen and nitrate nitrogen and the affects they have on ph. And that the positive and negatives affect ph and how they react with your water. I just raise from 4.6 to 5.4 next day I’m 5.8 wait for it to drift to 6.1. Drop to 5.8 and It sits flat 5.8-6.1 for the next 3-4 days till change.

Nice plants...321 blast off!

Purpsmagurps said:

Jacks 321 all the way! View attachment 4233404

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I have mixed feelings about Jack's Hydro, as well as both versions of 321. Using Jack's the way I do, with cal nite, mag nite, mkp, calcium, epsom and micros, I am able to better target all elements, and even using the higher end of the range of P that I found in another thread, I still contracted a minor P deficiency with the rust spots on old larger leaves, red/purple stems, mild blotches and a bit of bluishness in the green. For the record, Jack's 321 has 41ppm of phosphorus, what I am currently using has 65ppm, and tomorrow when I change my res, I'm bumping that up to 70 ppm.

This Triple Cheese is looking lovely, but I still notice minor P def creeping in and the last thing I want to do in mid bloom is deprive her of her P.

Skybound420 said:

View attachment 4234972

I have mixed feelings about Jack's Hydro, as well as both versions of 321. Using Jack's the way I do, with cal nite, mag nite, mkp, calcium, epsom and micros, I am able to better target all elements, and even using the higher end of the range of P that I found in another thread, I still contracted a minor P deficiency with the rust spots on old larger leaves, red/purple stems, mild blotches and a bit of bluishness in the green. For the record, Jack's 321 has 41ppm of phosphorus, what I am currently using has 65ppm, and tomorrow when I change my res, I'm bumping that up to 70 ppm.

This Triple Cheese is looking lovely, but I still notice minor P def creeping in and the last thing I want to do in mid bloom is deprive her of her P.

View attachment 4234977

View attachment 4234973

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Have you tried supplementing mpk at 1 gram per gallon? The most successful recipe I have so far is:
For a 9 Week Strain sized at (1x1) 4 plants in a 4x4 space

Week 1
Jacks 3.6/2.4/1.2 at 75% Strength usually pretty loose with the Calcium Nitrate it’s more like 2.7 per gallon.

Week 2-6
Jacks 321 @ 50%, Diy Terpinator 50% (2ml per Gallon), DIY Hammerhead 2ml per Gallon

Week 7-8
Jacks 321 @ 50%, DIY Hammerhead 2ml per Gallon, DIY MOAB 1 gram per gallon.

Week 9
Flush

I’ll plug the numbers as soon as I can. I was going to pick up jacks trace elements and calcium chloride as well. I’ve been addin about a gallon of tap to my Ro Rez But my tap ppm is 170. Want to up the calcium without going any higher on nitrogen and notice the flora Micro has trace elements not in the 321 formula such as cobalt hence the need for jacks most.

I essentially use jacks hydro, calcium nitrate, magnesium sulfate, Monopotassium Phosphate/ monoammonium phosphate, potassium sulfate, dark brown sugar, and hydroguard in flower. But will have to change again once I add the Jacks MOST and Calcium Chloride. If I decide to that is, this recipe has been quite successful. To much Nitrogen for Sativa though I’ve been having to supplement cal-mag plus at 2 ml per gallon for my Super Lemon Haze plants and keep 321 @ 50 percent for the first week. It’s to much nitrogen not enough calcium.

Have you read capulators thread on Jacks?

I've never had my calcinit absorb water.

I made the mistake of leaving the Jack's out and that clumped up.

Maybe I should check on the 16# I have left that's just sitting their ziptied up

firsttimeARE said:

I've never had my calcinit absorb water.

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Yes you have, it's not that obvious. Try this: weigh an amount of calcinit before and after warming to 200F for 30 minutes.

I first began trying to rev engineer various products, but then after discussing mixing various things with @im4satori I quickly learned that all of these various nutrient lines all use the same building blocks that we already are using so it then seemed redundant to make a nutrient, then try to build a feed regimen based around the constraints of that nutrient. My current approach is merely to pinpoint the ideal elemental range for all macros and micros/trace elements and so far am seeing great results.

I too had some difficulty with Cal Nite, but found another more refined source of calcium in a product called Biomin Calcium Powder sold at CustomHydro. It is still cal nite, but it has 15% chelated calcium and only 5% N. This product alone enables me to jack the Ca way up without affecting the N levels too much. At the end of it all though, Hydro Buddy does all the math for me and outputs the weights/doses of each component I have, just by the targets I input. So when I aim for 85PPM of N, 65PPM of P and 150PPM of K, I get exactly that much. If I were to begin with GH Flora Whatever, or Hammerhead, or Botanicare This/That, I would be locked inside the constraints of each, and the results would likely be far away from my targets. IMO, Hydro Buddy is more valuable to my grow than the nutrients I use as I can pretty much use any brand, wet or dry to hit my targets nearly spot on. Then it's just a matter of tweaking my targets like I'm about to do to my P later today. Here are the results of FH Flora line at full strength, 70% strength, Jack's 3.6/2.4/1.1 next to Jack's 3/2/1 for comparison. IMO, both are P deficient, but the levels of the micros produced from Jack's at 3 grams per gallon are near ideal as best I can tell, so I guess that's the trade off, great micros, but lacking P. My goal is to mitigate the tradeoffs where possible.

shimz said:

Yes you have, it's not that obvious. Try this: weigh an amount of calcinit before and after warming to 200F for 30 minutes.

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I would think anything holding moisture would lose weight after being in an oven. Does anyone know what the 'true' percentage of water content the Cal Nit is supposed to have? Dry Ca is very hygroscopic, and I suppose leaving it out uncovered for a prolonged amount of time would cause it to pull the water out of the ambient air. A test would be to fill a small container with Cal Nit and weigh it. Then leave said container of Cal Nit uncovered and weigh it each day to see if it gains weight. Long story short; proper storage is essential.

CannaCountry said:

I would think anything holding moisture would lose weight after being in an oven. Does anyone know what the 'true' percentage of water content the Cal Nit is supposed to have? Dry Ca is very hygroscopic, and I suppose leaving it out uncovered for a prolonged amount of time would cause it to pull the water out of the ambient air. A test would be to fill a small container with Cal Nit and weigh it. Then leave said container of Cal Nit uncovered and weigh it each day to see if it gains weight. Long story short; proper storage is essential.

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The point of baking the CalNite is to lose weight so that our measurements on the scale are more accurate. I forget who first raised the question, or which thread, but that guy noted that our doses are likely less accurate due to the added weight of absorbed water. So what my scale tells me is a gram, it doesn't know that maybe 25% of that is water leaving me only 75% cal nite. I think this makes for a better case to make concentrates, so the user doesn't have to bake the Cal Nite every week before weighing.

Sorry but I just started reading this,

What about the weight of epsom salts then?