Jack's 321 Questions

CannaCountry said:

Skybound420...I almost forgot. Do you have a pic of your 'redesigned' pump part? I use a fountain pump and the inlet to it is on the side of the pump, so I generally end up with about 3 gallons of feed that can't be pumped out of the reservoir. Not that this 3 gallons is wasted; I have vegetable gardens, orchids and potted plants that all enjoy it, so there's no waste. But if a modified part could be slid over the inlet on my pump that would allow me to pump darn near all the feed out of the reservoir...well, that would be great! Anyhow, you have my curiosity.

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I don't have a pic now bu can get you one in a half hour when Veg wakes up. My needs were identical to yours in that the ActiveAqua pump inlets from the side as well. So I pulled the twist in bung that centers the drive shaft and impeller, and I rev engineered that, added a 90º elbow to it and put a baseplate on with 2 holes for the rubber feet to be inserted. In this image, you can also see the groove for the Oring, and I also added some ribs to the inlet that catches any large debris, such as the Grodan mini cubes I use with my system. Prior to having this upgrade, I would use the feed pump to move the spent nutes right into the house drainage lines and suck off what my pump couldn't discharge, with a Super Soaker. I did this for better than a year before I got the idea to design this part. Now I can use my regular feed pump to completely empty my reservoirs right into the the house drainage lines.

Atomizer said:

MKP stands for Mono Potassium Phosphate, it has nothing in common with NPK and doesnt contain N

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Ok thanks, I just wanted to make sure that the naming of the product doesn't conflict with the listing of product ratios.

Very ingenious my friend! Kudos to you. Now you have me thinking about 3d printers; damn you! haha. Thanks for the picture, the conversation and now the demented thoughts I'm having on being a 3d engineer. Ha! Have a great Holiday weekend!

CannaCountry said:

Very ingenious my friend! Kudos to you. Now you have me thinking about 3d printers; damn you! haha. Thanks for the picture, the conversation and now the demented thoughts I'm having on being a 3d engineer. Ha! Have a great Holiday weekend!

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Engineering came easy to me thanks to the very basic code skills I picked up doing the other thing in the video. Most people that design things to print use point and click software like Fusion 360, but I found it easier to jump into the app most people frown upon, the one that uses code to define the object being designed. It's all just XYZ dimensions applied to basic shapes, and moving them around or deducting one from another. The good thing about my designs is that they're easily editable. I just need to alter the basic dimensions and I can output a different file to be used for printing. Same deal with my custom drip ring. I made that to sit inside of the small one gallon pots. Also notice the red bracket holding some dosing syringes, also made a dumb bracket to mimic a pocket to hang meters from. IMO, every serious grower needs a printer to make that which the market simply does not have. I'm also trying to recreate a ball valve to be controlled with servos, but so far that's a bust.

All that aside, you can get a Creality Ender 3 for $150 from China or $230 on Prime, and of all the cheap Chinese printers I've seen on the market, this one is easy to assemble and produces great prints right from the start. FWIW, I have a Tevo Tarantula which came out before the Ender, but mine was and still is a royal pain in the ass for the same price.

Skybound420 said:

Yeah, the tech stuff is definitely an uphill battle. Circuit building and coding are definitely not my strong suit, but I seek to make my grow autonomous so that I can solely focus on the plants and never have to deal with the typical concerns of hyrdo growers. I even redesigned a part for my ActiveAqua 160gph pump so it sucks out damn near every drop of water from my res. That thing works flawlessly. All of that aside though, I too seek simplicity. I placed an order for 1 pound of each, part A 5-12-26, part B cal nit, MKP, and a fulvic/humic/kelp blend. Aside from still needing to get Epsom salt, is there anything else I need to get started?

Is the NPK value correct for MKP? Because 'KP' in MKP is spelled in reverse of nPK, that leads me to believe that the PK values may have switched places.

Also, would I be fine if I switched out the nutes I'm using mid grow? Like if a plant has been eating GH in bloom for 5 weeks, then start right in with Jack's for week 6?

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npk value for your mkp (KH2PO4) is correct. im pretty sure mkp is shorthand and reflective of the pronunciation rather than the chemical formula. if you got it from customhydronutrients.com, you can email them with questions. ive hit them up a few times with questions and always got a reasonably prompt and detailed response. i also run growsil amorphous silica (also from customhydro) at .05g/gal, but this is not essential. i run a bunch of microbial stuff, you might want to look into that unless you intend to run a sterile res.
i switched nutes mid run when i got my new stuff in. no adverse effects, and i think it was a major contributor factor in saving that run
got any easily digestable links regarding 3d printing? printer recommendations? i am curious about this and its application to growing

thenasty1 said:

npk value for your mkp (KH2PO4) is correct. im pretty sure mkp is shorthand and reflective of the pronunciation rather than the chemical formula. if you got it from customhydronutrients.com, you can email them with questions. ive hit them up a few times with questions and always got a reasonably prompt and detailed response. i also run growsil amorphous silica (also from customhydro) at .05g/gal, but this is not essential. i run a bunch of microbial stuff, you might want to look into that unless you intend to run a sterile res.
i switched nutes mid run when i got my new stuff in. no adverse effects, and i think it was a major contributor factor in saving that run
got any easily digestable links regarding 3d printing? printer recommendations? i am curious about this and its application to growing

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I too use bennies, Recharge now but plan to go back to Heisenberg Tea, this time maybe with some of that P rich bat guano, or something like that. I'm also using silica currently, and have read that silica conflicts with Terpenator. I tried Terp, but didn't notice any sweetening, so I switched to GH Flora Nectar and my smoke is super sweet now. I suppose I'll have to try other dry sweeteners or even plain ole molasses?

As far as 3D printers are concerned, there's 2 general approaches and each is determined by your budget. That said, the cheap Chinese models range from $100 up to about $800. Anything more pricey will likely fall into the Proprietary category. The quality is usually somewhat better, but the major markup is usually due to the brand and the private firmware.

I'm a cheap fuck, so I of course have the Chinese model. All of these ones are based from the same open source design called "i3". The 3 major names in Chinese "i3" printers are Creality, Tevo, Anet and the other popular brand names escape me at this time. Off course, each of those brands have various models, each offering slightly larger "build volume", and some with extended functionality. I forgot to mention that another brand of "i3" that is not Chinese is the "Prusa i3". Prusa invented the i3 design and chose to make it open source. Prusa printers come mostly assembled and are known to be in a class of their own. The Prusa Mk2 and Mk3 I think start at $800, but those models are amazing and there's plenty of content on YouTube.

I suggest also researching youtube for Tevo, Creality, and Anet and see what you learn. For me, the Tevo Tarantula arrived completely disassembled and assermbly took me a very long time, and if not for all the tools I have, I wouldn't have finished the build successfully. I chat privately with another grower that I convinced to get a printer and his research lead him to get a Creality Ender 3. That model requires about 10 minutes of basic assembly and right off the gate his printer produces better results than mine. It's my opnion that Creality gave more thought to their models than Tevo did.

Once you boil it down to which possible models you're interested, you can then search facebook for a 3d printer group for the specific model(s) you're thinking about buying and join each. Once approved, you can then ask actual owners for opinions of their printer and suggestions for other models if they're not satisfied. In the Tarantula group, there are well over 50,000 members, and the same thing in the Creality CR10 group, Creality Ender3 group etc etc etc. Your questions will never fall on deaf ears.

Model ----------------------- volume ---------- price range
Anet A8 --------------------- 220x220x240 -- $200~
Tevo Tarantula ------------ 200x200x200 -- $200~
Tevo Tornado -------------- 300x300x400 -- $300-500~
Creality Ender 3 ---------- 220x220x280 -- $200~
Creality CR10 ------------- 300x300x400 -- $300-500~

Here's a link to one of my Thingiverse accounts and the designs I've shared there. I plan to soon share the pump mod design, as well as some of the other random things I designed for the hobby. My other account is just for Tarantula upgrades I've designed, but those would be useless here.

Skybound's Things

M = mono
K = potassium
P = phosphate

It's a nutrient double salt.

Its NPK value is 0-52-32

N = nitrogen
P = phosphate
K = potassium

This really isn't difficult but it is to the advantage of water bottle nutrient makes to confuse things so they can charge uneducated people outlandish amounts of money for basic nutrients.

Then those very same people wonder why real farmers don't take them seriously.

Does anybody have a link to the table Green Gene uses in his video to illustrate the ratio differences between basic 321, Gene's 321, Lucas Formula etc?

I got the basics, 5-12-26(A). 15-0-0 CalNit (B), Epsom Salt (C), as well as a Fulvic/Humic/Kelp blend, soluble Seaweed powder, Ancient Forest and the remaining contents to make Heisenberg Tea. I got the 2 part and Epsom yesterday, so I went ahead and mixed up a single 10 gal res for week 3 of bloom. When I went in today to add some of the blend, I noticed many splotches floating on the water. I guess some nutes bonded as I mixed the salts into the res instead of premixing a concentrate. So I cycled while adding in the blend (1.5 TSP for 10 gals) and corrected the pH and I'm confident the acids will help break apart any bonds.

I also tested 321 last night and the ppm seemed pretty high, almost 1000 ppm for just adding together the result of each component per gallon, and I didn't even do 3.6, 2.4 and 1.2. I've since mixed up a gallon of concentrate of each part @3.6, 2.4, 1.2. 200 grams per each gallon, and I'll use those to mete in the respective dose. I can then adjust the numbers if needed, not have to worry about breathing dust or potentially have another bonding session in the reservoir. I should be able to mix around 8 bloom weeks before needing to mix up A again. I also discovered when pouring the part A into the RO that the heavy particles sink fast and create a lot of heat, so much that the jug was beginning to soften. I would estimate 150º F, maybe 175º hot. Thankfully I didn't decide to put more than 200 grams in there. I mean next time I will, but I'll do so in a location suitable should something go awry.

I'm asking for educated guesses here, but I bought the Seaweed because I read on MaxYield that someone linked to another thread that seaweed and humic acid make an auxin encouraging foliar spray at 5 parts humic to 2 parts seaweed, but my humic is also mixed with kelp and fulvic acid, so I want to ask for an educated guess how to mix up a batch as I have 2 in veg that are plenty tall and wide, but need to fill up. Also, what PPM should I mix to for a foliar spray? Only for veg only.

Skybound420 said:

Does anybody have a link to the table Green Gene uses in his video to illustrate the ratio differences between basic 321, Gene's 321, Lucas Formula etc?

I got the basics, 5-12-26(A). 15-0-0 CalNit (B), Epsom Salt (C), as well as a Fulvic/Humic/Kelp blend, soluble Seaweed powder, Ancient Forest and the remaining contents to make Heisenberg Tea. I got the 2 part and Epsom yesterday, so I went ahead and mixed up a single 10 gal res for week 3 of bloom. When I went in today to add some of the blend, I noticed many splotches floating on the water. I guess some nutes bonded as I mixed the salts into the res instead of premixing a concentrate. So I cycled while adding in the blend (1.5 TSP for 10 gals) and corrected the pH and I'm confident the acids will help break apart any bonds.

I also tested 321 last night and the ppm seemed pretty high, almost 1000 ppm for just adding together the result of each component per gallon, and I didn't even do 3.6, 2.4 and 1.2. I've since mixed up a gallon of concentrate of each part @3.6, 2.4, 1.2. 200 grams per each gallon, and I'll use those to mete in the respective dose. I can then adjust the numbers if needed, not have to worry about breathing dust or potentially have another bonding session in the reservoir. I should be able to mix around 8 bloom weeks before needing to mix up A again. I also discovered when pouring the part A into the RO that the heavy particles sink fast and create a lot of heat, so much that the jug was beginning to soften. I would estimate 150º F, maybe 175º hot. Thankfully I didn't decide to put more than 200 grams in there. I mean next time I will, but I'll do so in a location suitable should something go awry.

I'm asking for educated guesses here, but I bought the Seaweed because I read on MaxYield that someone linked to another thread that seaweed and humic acid make an auxin encouraging foliar spray at 5 parts humic to 2 parts seaweed, but my humic is also mixed with kelp and fulvic acid, so I want to ask for an educated guess how to mix up a batch as I have 2 in veg that are plenty tall and wide, but need to fill up. Also, what PPM should I mix to for a foliar spray? Only for veg only.

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It’s toward the end just pause.

You could make a 1 gallon solution and measure E.c of each component to understand levels that should be added to your reservoir. As for as the spray I’m doing a lot of reasearch on building your own rooting compound. The tea itself encourages root growth. I’ll post clear results on my test w/ recipes and dosage ratios. I’ll start in a few weeks and run 20 recipes at a time using 4 week gauges on clones, seedlings, & vegging plants.

Kami Samurai said:

It’s toward the end just pause.

You could make a 1 gallon solution and measure E.c of each component to understand levels that should be added to your reservoir. As for as the spray I’m doing a lot of reasearch on building your own rooting compound. The tea itself encourages root growth. I’ll post clear results on my test w/ recipes and dosage ratios. I’ll start in a few weeks and run 20 recipes at a time using 4 week gauges on clones, seedlings, & vegging plants.

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I've watched Gene's video a few times and believe I'm on page with him more or less. In the video, he stated to stick with our PPM levels as like with other nutes, just to keep the ratios of the components which I am doing. I am just adjusting the concentration levels of each part into a gallon of water so I can then use that gallon of water respectively according to the recipe.

I have a sketchy memory, but I could've sworn it was you that linked to MaxYield on another thread regarding the topic of Fulvic/Humic Acids. Anyway, in that article which I've also read several times, it states that Fulvic, Humic, Kelp and/or Seaweed combos add auxins which stimulate root growth. I mixed up 5 parts of THIS Fulvic/Humic/Kelp Blend with 2 parts Soluble Seaweed into a quart of RO. Each part is 1/4 TSP. My plan is to use some of that mixed with RO to use as a foliar spray for Veg plants to encourage growth where applied, but in my years growing, I've never really got into mixing foliar sprays and I don't know what would be a safe range to mix to. Do you think 100-200 ppm would be good for foliar sprays?

The 5:2:quart mix is 1430ppm, 8.86pH

Edit - I added 10ml of the above blend to a quart of RO and that went to 40 PPM @ 7.65pH. The color is pretty dark, maybe a little darker than Heisenberg Tea or Recharge, so I just left it at that. If someone believes I can add more, I will, but just to have something to experiment with, I'll stay there. I sprayed two clones that are yet to root since 8/25, and also the lowest branch of one the moms. I hope to see changes in a week or so.

Skybound420 said:

Hi, I'm new to RIU, but have been growing and blogging on 420 for a few years. I'm looking to get into making my own nutes to better learn what I've been giving my plants, but also to have the ability to make minute adjustments to the ratios so as to get out ahead of the minor deficiencies I've been plagued with for a about a year now. I'm growing Kush, and have been using GH Flora series and all of their supplements, minus Diamond Nectar. I learned the hard way that both Liquid Koolbloom and Flora Blend can become moldy and unusable which is really sad seeing as how I'm paying for mostly water anyways. Still though, I need to get ahead of things like that.

I found GreenGene's YouTube page, and also noticed that he posts here too, but I was hoping to maybe gather still more info on top of what Gene shared in his video on this topic. For starters, I'd like to view the 321 recipe, but also have the popular supplements used with that line. I'd also like to know if anybody has created some baseline recipes for specific strains?

And finally, from what I've read or saw thus far, Jack's 321 is worth it's own thread IMO.

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His 40 min video didn't answer all your questions?

Ryante55 said:

His 40 min video didn't answer all your questions?

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For the most part it has.

Skybound420 said:

I've watched Gene's video a few times and believe I'm on page with him more or less. In the video, he stated to stick with our PPM levels as like with other nutes, just to keep the ratios of the components which I am doing. I am just adjusting the concentration levels of each part into a gallon of water so I can then use that gallon of water respectively according to the recipe.

I have a sketchy memory, but I could've sworn it was you that linked to MaxYield on another thread regarding the topic of Fulvic/Humic Acids. Anyway, in that article which I've also read several times, it states that Fulvic, Humic, Kelp and/or Seaweed combos add auxins which stimulate root growth. I mixed up 5 parts of THIS Fulvic/Humic/Kelp Blend with 2 parts Soluble Seaweed into a quart of RO. Each part is 1/4 TSP. My plan is to use some of that mixed with RO to use as a foliar spray for Veg plants to encourage growth where applied, but in my years growing, I've never really got into mixing foliar sprays and I don't know what would be a safe range to mix to. Do you think 100-200 ppm would be good for foliar sprays?

The 5:2:quart mix is 1430ppm, 8.86pH

Edit - I added 10ml of the above blend to a quart of RO and that went to 40 PPM @ 7.65pH. The color is pretty dark, maybe a little darker than Heisenberg Tea or Recharge, so I just left it at that. If someone believes I can add more, I will, but just to have something to experiment with, I'll stay there. I sprayed two clones that are yet to root since 8/25, and also the lowest branch of one the moms. I hope to see changes in a week or so.

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Maybe, I have a few post on the subject. I wouldn’t worry about e.c./Ppm too much they’re organic components that would throw off your reading. I’d start with 1/4 recommended dose and move up from there. You can alway do multiple feedings.

I do 2.4g Jack's, 1.6g CaNO3 and don't use Epsom (my plants never miss it)

In mid flowering I've been reducing CaNO3 levels

I incorporate MKP from weeks 2-5. Then potassium sulfate I've been using to increase terps and bulk later flower. From weeks 6 and on.

firsttimeARE said:

I do 2.4g Jack's, 1.6g CaNO3 and don't use Epsom (my plants never miss it)

In mid flowering I've been reducing CaNO3 levels

I incorporate MKP from weeks 2-5. Then potassium sulfate I've been using to increase terps and bulk later flower. From weeks 6 and on.

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I'll have to order PotSul, I only have MKP for now. What is the reason for switching out MKP with PotSul? I admit being novice, but my studies suggest that P is most important in late bloom for fattening. Is this incorrect?

Do you have a mix for rooting clones? I'm thinking some Fulvic/Humic/Kelp blend with a small amount of MKP. When using GH, I'd mix FloraBlend (acids) and Flora Bloom equally to about 300ppm and that gave me 100% success, though took 14 days steadily. I'd like to speed that up with a better mix if I can.

K is most important in late flower.

There has been research suggestion sulfates increase smells (terpenes) in plants.

I have read to reduce phosphates late flower and wanted to try it out. The idea being improved burn and taste. But I'm still testing to see if it's a load. So far my plants haven't missed it.

Plus the mix has some

firsttimeARE said:

K is most important in late flower.

There has been research suggestion sulfates increase smells (terpenes) in plants.

I have read to reduce phosphates late flower and wanted to try it out. The idea being improved burn and taste. But I'm still testing to see if it's a load. So far my plants haven't missed it.

Plus the mix has some

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Thanks for the intel. Some quick added research on the topic also shows my error in understanding.

During heavy fruit and flower production, the plants continue to need higher levels of phosphorus to help provide energy for the developing fruit, but higher levels of potassium are also important for increased carbohydrate metabolism. Generally speaking, phosphorus and potassium are both important during the fruiting and flowering stage, but increased phosphorus is particularly beneficial during the early generative stage, while increased potassium is particularly beneficial during the final stages of fruit and flower production.

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firsttimeARE said:

K is most important in late flower.

There has been research suggestion sulfates increase smells (terpenes) in plants.

I have read to reduce phosphates late flower and wanted to try it out. The idea being improved burn and taste. But I'm still testing to see if it's a load. So far my plants haven't missed it.

Plus the mix has some

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Terpinator is suppose to be potassium sulfate and Dark Brown Sugar. I actually just got a 5lb bag, You’d be adding your sulfate with that (p.sulfate) instead of using Epsom which is (Mag. sulfate)
Sweet raw is suppose to be magnesium sulfate and cane sugar.
I was going to drop Epsom 50% and add 5ml of a 10% diy terpinator solution.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-correct-homemade-terpinator-resinator-formula.915401/

In place of just MPK powder I’ll make my own Moab with MPK and a bit mono-ammonium. And a homemade Hammerhead

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/hammerhead-0-9-18-making-my-own.76527

Since Hammerhead is just MPK/ P.Sulfate/ & Epsom I’ll have to figure out ratios and drop terpinator on weeks with Hammerhead.

I tried Terpenator a few months back and was not impressed, but mostly because of the high price, but it smelled so good I was tempted to drink it, lol. I'll give it another go DIY style. After I stopped with that, I switched to GH Flora Nectar Fruit-n-Fusion and I definitely noticed the influence in taste of my smoke. I'd like to one day recreate this product. It has 1%K2O, 0.5%M, 0.5%S, 17.5% Kane Sugar and 5% molasses. I'm inclined to believe that it also has raspberry esters in it because it smells like raspberry iced tea.

I have one in early bloom with the standard 321 mix, and another in late bloom that I'll finish up using firsttimeARE's 2.6/1.4/0 and see how that goes. I'll have to use MKP in place of Potassium Sulfate, so maybe I'll still have to use some epsom to get elevated sulfur?

FWIW, I'm using 5-12-26 Jack's which has about twice the Mg and S as 5-11-26, so maybe I could get away with no Epsom?

Skybound420 said:

I tried Terpenator a few months back and was not impressed, but mostly because of the high price, but it smelled so good I was tempted to drink it, lol. I'll give it another go DIY style. After I stopped with that, I switched to GH Flora Nectar Fruit-n-Fusion and I definitely noticed the influence in taste of my smoke. I'd like to one day recreate this product. It has 1%K2O, 0.5%M, 0.5%S, 17.5% Kane Sugar and 5% molasses. I'm inclined to believe that it also has raspberry esters in it because it smells like raspberry iced tea.

I have one in early bloom with the standard 321 mix, and another in late bloom that I'll finish up using firsttimeARE's 2.6/1.4/0 and see how that goes. I'll have to use MKP in place of Potassium Sulfate, so maybe I'll still have to use some epsom to get elevated sulfur?

FWIW, I'm using 5-12-26 Jack's which has about twice the Mg and S as 5-11-26, so maybe I could get away with no Epsom?

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I used to use the 5-11-26 and needed Epsom with it. But there's enough Mg in the 5-12-26 where plans haven't missed it.

I've reduced the CaNO3 to 1.2 around week 5 and 0.8 at week 7. First time I'm doing it. Just experimental. I did run into some Ca deficiencies. I picked up some calcium sulfate (gypsum) to get a source of calcium in late flower when I'm trying to reduce nitrogen levels but the folks at JR Peter's tells me it's only partially soluable in hydro. So I'm back to the drawing board on how I can reduce N levels but still maintain proper Ca levels.

My plants are finally being cropped with light to mid green leaves instead of dark green. Just chopped a few days ago so I'll see in a week if it helps taste

firsttimeARE said:

I used to use the 5-11-26 and needed Epsom with it. But there's enough Mg in the 5-12-26 where plans haven't missed it.

I've reduced the CaNO3 to 1.2 around week 5 and 0.8 at week 7. First time I'm doing it. Just experimental. I did run into some Ca deficiencies. I picked up some calcium sulfate (gypsum) to get a source of calcium in late flower when I'm trying to reduce nitrogen levels but the folks at JR Peter's tells me it's only partially soluable in hydro. So I'm back to the drawing board on how I can reduce N levels but still maintain proper Ca levels.

My plants are finally being cropped with light to mid green leaves instead of dark green. Just chopped a few days ago so I'll see in a week if it helps taste

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Would something like this straight calcium work? I looked up calcium sulfate and it said it can't be mixed in a storable solution and is only soluble to 2 grams per liter. I don't fully understand that yet, but it does give me a sense of concern because I'm using a recirculating system and will need something that can be available for about a week at least, but ideally (for me), I hope to settle on a recipe that allows me to liquefy everything into concentrates.