Jack's 321 Questions

Discussion in 'Hydroponics / Aeroponics' started by Skybound420, Aug 29, 2018.

  1.  
    Skybound420

    Skybound420 Well-Known Member

    Hi, I'm new to RIU, but have been growing and blogging on 420 for a few years. I'm looking to get into making my own nutes to better learn what I've been giving my plants, but also to have the ability to make minute adjustments to the ratios so as to get out ahead of the minor deficiencies I've been plagued with for a about a year now. I'm growing Kush, and have been using GH Flora series and all of their supplements, minus Diamond Nectar. I learned the hard way that both Liquid Koolbloom and Flora Blend can become moldy and unusable which is really sad seeing as how I'm paying for mostly water anyways. Still though, I need to get ahead of things like that.

    I found GreenGene's YouTube page, and also noticed that he posts here too, but I was hoping to maybe gather still more info on top of what Gene shared in his video on this topic. For starters, I'd like to view the 321 recipe, but also have the popular supplements used with that line. I'd also like to know if anybody has created some baseline recipes for specific strains?

    And finally, from what I've read or saw thus far, Jack's 321 is worth it's own thread IMO.
     
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  2.  
    mmjmon

    mmjmon Well-Known Member

    I thought there already was a thread.
     
  3.  
    rkymtnman

    rkymtnman Well-Known Member

    that's probably what's causing issues.

    the flora or the maxi series are all you really need. you start adding cal/mg and pk boosters and that usually causes lockout or toxicity as it messes with the NPK ratios.
     
  4.  
    Skybound420

    Skybound420 Well-Known Member

    I searched, this and other forums and only found scattered bits on the topic.

    My deficiencies are very minor, but still noticeable. I've tweaked my feed to a minor degree, but it's difficult to isolate a specific component that you want elevated. I'm looking for more precise control. For a few years, I've been working on a growroom automation system and built and coded a fairly reliable dosing system with peristaltic pumps. I'd like to be able to tweak for instance phosphorus, or maybe magnesium. Assuming that each component can be liquefied and stored in that state, I'll be able to dose it out in very small quantities or save recipes in memory like a preset or set of presets, stuff like that.

    As it relates to Maxi, has someone taken the time to build it out the way Jack's 321 has been? If I understand correctly, Jack's 321 has a standardized recipe and depending Veg or Bloom will dictate which supplements are added, much like regular hydro nutes.
     
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  5.  
    rkymtnman

    rkymtnman Well-Known Member

    i've been using just maxi bloom from start to finish. i'm going to try to mess around with maxi gro for more of veg and transition. end up with a mix of the two.

    i just add a powdered kelp, fulvic, humic and micro mix as my one supplement. other than a root rot preventative
     
  6.  
    Kami Samurai

    Kami Samurai Well-Known Member

    You run jacks @ 321 all the way through and greengene has a video that he breaks down ratios and puts his own modified formula up as well as his formula plus MOAB.
    I have a log on my Kens GDP where I go over what additives I’ll be using with jacks 321. You’ll need at least 2 injectors as well or you’ll end up with gypsum.



    If this doesn’t make sense you should read more into dry nutrients (fatmans guide) and ratios. He goes Over ratios pretty well in this video

    Silica and a Rooting enhancer are all that’s missing and you can supplement Fulvic/Humic depending on media.

    Rooting enhancers are a subject on their own there are several products available but mostly products are made with enzyme fermentation of organics such as kelp or extraction methods like cold pressing. Other subjects on Rooting are Cytokins, IBA, etc.

    I’m also going to be making my own sweet raw for a flavor enhancer.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
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  7.  
    Skybound420

    Skybound420 Well-Known Member

    I believe it was Fatman's guide that I tried to read through, but the content was either too long, I was too stoned, or a mixture of the two gave me a headache and I tried searching other leads. I comprehend the ratios, I use my own ratios to convert GH's feed schedule to a canna friendly regimen that tops out @850ppm. As for clone juice, I just mix a ferment (Flora Blend) and regular GH bloom nutes (0-5-4) equally to 250ppm and I get 100% success. It's slow, but works every time. None the less, I've done my best with GH and I still seem to not get things quite right and I just want to try something else that's much cheaper and also more controllable. I'm watching Gene's video for the 3rd time now. Any chance you can link me to the comparison chart he's using (32:00)? Also, just so I know, J321 is a 2 part solution. 3 and 2 combine into Part A and 1 is Part B?

    Is anybody using sweeteners such as molasses or Terpinator? I'd like to keep using Flora Nectar till I'm done with the Kush in a few months. I'm growing Triple Cheese next. IDK if molasses will complement cheese the way it does Kush.
     
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  8.  
    Kami Samurai

    Kami Samurai Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  9.  
    CannaCountry

    CannaCountry Well-Known Member

    When using Jacks 321, you mix the base nutrient first (Part A) until it's completely dissolved, then add your Epsom (Part C) and mix this until it's completely dissolved and then add the Calcium Nitrate (Part B). GreneGenes explains this pretty clearly in his video, not to mention the directions on the label note the same as does Peter's website.
     
  10.  
    Skybound420

    Skybound420 Well-Known Member

    The other videos I saw for mixing had just 2 buckets and that's what's confusing me as there are 3 main ingredients. So, if I understand you correctly, Part A is added to RO and mixed thoroughly. Then the Epsom is added to that Part A mix? Then Part B is made with RO by itself and the two stay apart until being mixed with more RO in the res?

    Thanks, I'll start in on your thread now!
     
  11.  
    CannaCountry

    CannaCountry Well-Known Member

    I don't use RO water so I can't speak in terms of that. Simply put, I put tap water in a bucket, add part A, mix this until it's completely dissolved, then I add my Epsom to the same bucket of water (now containing part A) and mix until the Epsom (Part C if you will) is completely dissolved, then I add the Calcium Nitrate (Part B) to the same bucket (now containing Part A and Part C) and mix until dissolved. Then I pH it and I'm off to the races.
     
  12.  
    Skybound420

    Skybound420 Well-Known Member

    Thanks @CannaCountry I think I get it, but I'm guessing that's your weekly mix. I'm wanting to make concentrates to be used to change out 4 weekly res changes for my 3 bloom rooms and veg closet.
     
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  13.  
    thenasty1

    thenasty1 Well-Known Member

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  14.  
    CannaCountry

    CannaCountry Well-Known Member

    Skybound420...I mix up nutrient to last me @ 4 days at a time. I've gone as long as 7 days, but find algae begins to form at this point, so I've opted for less time between reservoir changes, unless it becomes absolutely necessary to go longer. I can't speak in terms of making a 'concentrate'. I simply mix it as directed and go. Sounds like you have a pretty healthy operation going; mine is small and for my personal use only, anything larger is out of my league if you will. I'm sure you could mix up a 'concentrate' and then dilute it back with water when you're ready to use it, though I don't know how well the 3 parts to this formula will mix the more concentrated you get. Perhaps someone here can chime in with some experience. Anyhow, good luck my friend; I'm sure you'll work it out.
     
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  15.  
    Skybound420

    Skybound420 Well-Known Member

    Yes, I aim to make concentrates to replace the GH line. Assuming the parts can be mixed and be able to remain stable while being stored, that's my intention. Here's a video from a year ago that should show my need for liquid nutes. With my pumping system, I could set the machine to draw precise doses from any of various liquid sources, so essentially, I can draw from a concentrate, pump it to a res of plain RO and mix it, then add in the next part, mixit and so on. Since I made this video, I got a 3D printer and have designed new boxes for the relays and outlets, as well as the housing for the pumps. I've also printed a shit load of other cool stuff for the grow and IMO, every grower should get a cheap $150 printer.

     
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  16.  
    CannaCountry

    CannaCountry Well-Known Member

    Skybound420...yeah, you're on a completely different level than I. Kudos to you for your set up and your tech savvy skills. I'm old and slow and tend to keep things a bit more simple for this brain...haha. You're obviously pretty competent so I'm sure you'll work things out. Have a great Holiday weekend.
     
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  17.  
    Skybound420

    Skybound420 Well-Known Member

    Yeah, the tech stuff is definitely an uphill battle. Circuit building and coding are definitely not my strong suit, but I seek to make my grow autonomous so that I can solely focus on the plants and never have to deal with the typical concerns of hyrdo growers. I even redesigned a part for my ActiveAqua 160gph pump so it sucks out damn near every drop of water from my res. That thing works flawlessly. All of that aside though, I too seek simplicity. I placed an order for 1 pound of each, part A 5-12-26, part B cal nit, MKP, and a fulvic/humic/kelp blend. Aside from still needing to get Epsom salt, is there anything else I need to get started?

    Is the NPK value correct for MKP? Because 'KP' in MKP is spelled in reverse of nPK, that leads me to believe that the PK values may have switched places.

    Also, would I be fine if I switched out the nutes I'm using mid grow? Like if a plant has been eating GH in bloom for 5 weeks, then start right in with Jack's for week 6?
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
  18.  
    CannaCountry

    CannaCountry Well-Known Member

    I can only tell you that I use the 5-12-16, the Calcium Nitrate and Epsom. I don't use anything else in my grow at this time. Unfortunately I can't speak in terms of the MKP or switching nutrients mid stream; I have no experience with either. If I had to surmise and really it's just my thoughts; switching nutrients in general shouldn't hurt anything. I don't think the plants care about manufacturer, packaging or the like. Give them what they want regardless of who made it and I would think they'd be fine.
     
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  19.  
    CannaCountry

    CannaCountry Well-Known Member

    Skybound420...I almost forgot. Do you have a pic of your 'redesigned' pump part? I use a fountain pump and the inlet to it is on the side of the pump, so I generally end up with about 3 gallons of feed that can't be pumped out of the reservoir. Not that this 3 gallons is wasted; I have vegetable gardens, orchids and potted plants that all enjoy it, so there's no waste. But if a modified part could be slid over the inlet on my pump that would allow me to pump darn near all the feed out of the reservoir...well, that would be great! Anyhow, you have my curiosity.
     
  20.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    MKP stands for Mono Potassium Phosphate, it has nothing in common with NPK and doesnt contain N ;)
     
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