How a Police IR helicopter functions?
- Thread starter Ax3
- Start date
SableZen
Well-Known Member
I agree - sleep easy when it comes to non-FLIR imaging techniques. We do have blanket constitutional protection from law enforcement using the newer imaging technologies as of right now (considered invasive).About those See Through Wall radars, heres some more evidence that they dont like metal, from http://pubs.drdc.gc.ca/PDFS/unc36/p518404.pdf
"Solid metallic walls are completely opaque to the radar frequencies of interest. The radar signals are completely blocked by a thin aluminum foil such as that used in insulating houses...
Solid metallic walls are much thicker than a few microns. Hence, they are opaque to radar signals. Even a thin aluminum foil, which is about 200 microns thick, is opaque to the radar frequency of interest since most energy is attenuated within the first 8 microns..."
sleep easy
But check out pictures of commercial GPR (Ground Penetrating Radar) resolution like this one:
http://www.dearborncos.com/images/gpr.jpg
And consider that a similar (though more powerful) radar unit could theoretically be used either from an aircraft platform or even a satellite platform (?)... and you have yourself a way to remotely look through roofs and gain a 3D model of all the metallic objects in the house as well as where the voids (rooms) are.
Of course, this is off-topic from FLIR and is currently illegal for law enforcement to use on residences - it is an interesting topic though.
jsntexas
Member
So true, it's an unfortunate reality. Peace
2ill4u
Well-Known Member
very true, but at least they could not use it as evidence. not that it will do you any good if you are in this position.
the insulation in your house
If youre really worried you could always try a tin-foil hat too 
Now you wont be able to hide the bunker in the backyard, that thing will show up, even if you line it with foil, it will appear as a radar dead spot and the software can model it based on refelections recieved from the surrounding area. It will draw attention(why all the metal under the backyard?). If you dont line it, they will be able to see the cleared area and objects in it.
However radar dead spots on suburban homes will be everywhere coz of the widespread use of foil insulation. Therefor not out of the ordinary so doesnt draw attention.
As far as privacy goes, the imaging these things produce at range is pretty awfull too. Well, when comparing to traditional imaging methods anyway.
Mr. StankyFingas
Well-Known Member
Did anyone else here actually watch this video?? Apart from the imaging contrast it was actually pretty fuckin crazy..
Straight up G
New Member
Ha ha, do not take advice from this man.
Straight up G
New Member
##Correct.
Straight up G
New Member
And then buy some red rock, right? loli love it... all three sites say no we can not see through walls.....if anyone is worried about it go spend some money and build a false wall with a small space in between the walls of your grow room.... air condition that space, its that easy...500 dollars and 15-20 hours, or an asshole more torn than a wet piece of tissue paper.....
Straight up G
New Member
Straight up G
New Member
I'm not reading all this but if you are saying rickwhite is right you are also wrong, this was an iscolated incident the premises would not dissipate heat as efficiantly and in the regualted way a house would.You are right - a wood burning stove can appear to be a possible marijuana grow to police using FLIR:
Police raid suspected cannabis factory - and find wood burning stove
Police raided a property after heat-seeking cameras identified a suspected cannabis factory only to discover nothing more sinister than a wood-burning stove.
By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
Published: 2:29PM GMT 27 Feb 2009
Colin Rowe with the door the Police smashed in at his work shop
Photo: ROSS PARRY
Officers obtained a search warrant and broke through a door at Colin Rowe's workshop in Huddersfield, Yorks, after an infra-red police helicopter camera picked up unusual heat patterns from the house.
They looked high and low for the cannabis plants, even breaking a flowerpot in the process, but found that the heat source was simply a stove used to warm the garage workshop where Mr Rowe restores cars in his spare time.
The 41-year-old college technician was furious when he returned home to find the damaged door and the warrant, which had been posted through his letterbox without an apology.
Mr Rowe said: "I find it quite disturbing that Wild West Yorkshire Police can do what they want. I think it is disgraceful, I didn't think the police would treat anyone like this without good reason," he said. "My dad was a police officer for 40 years and he's disgusted about this."
It appears Mr Rowe's crime prevention measures may have also heightened the police's suspicions. Bars on windows at the back of his property - which he fitted to keep burglars out - were seen as a sign that he could be a cannabis "farmer" keen to protect his illegal crop.
Mr Rowe, 41, who has no previous convictions, said: "I think it's a pretty poor way for them to behave given that I'm not the sort of person who's known to the police."
Commenting on the damage, he said: "There was a big hole in the door which was large enough to get your arm through, the hinges were bent, there were bits of wood on the floor and one of my plant pots was broken.
"There was a brush and shovel right by the door so, if they'd had any compassion, they would have at least swept up the mess.'
Mr Rowe went to his local police station in Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, to complain and spoke to the policewoman who applied for the warrant. She said a police helicopter "had noted the heat source from my home."
He added: "She said they sent a patrol to my house and found I had bars on the windows at the back. That's to prevent burglary - I don't think it's excessive.
"I've been given a form to claim compensation and I hope the police will pay for the damage."
A West Yorkshire Police spokesman confirmed officers executed a drugs warrant at 9.45 am last Friday. "During the execution of the warrant a door to an external building was forced. Officers located no drugs and arrangements were made for the door to be left secure.
"No entry was made by officers into the main house itself. It is standard policy that we will pay for repairs in such circumstances and we would be happy to discuss any concerns Mr Rowe has."
Mr Rowe shares the house with wife Beth, a 40-year-old health visitor. The door has cost £200 to repair and he has had to take time off work because of the police raid.
Yes - example cited above. I'm not a lawyer but this is how I understand the law with FLIR use: Law enforcement in the US does not require a warrant to use FLIR in most cases. There is no 'reasonable expectation of privacy' from aircraft looking at your neighborhood/house/yard/outdoor property, nor is there any legal reason law enforcement can't look at the heat your house and others are emitting to the outside. Similar to the rulings that law enforcement officers do not require a warrant to look at anything 'in plain view' inside of your car.
If you've read that FLIR can see through several feet of dirt and concrete - cite the source for us here. I'm betting that at best, someone has just given anecdotal opinion without the least understanding. Because IR can't see through anything - it simply shows radiated surface heat from the most external object. FLIR is passive just like your eyes, it cannot see through things; unlike x-rays, millimeter wave technology, radar, etc which are all active systems and can 'see through' objects. FLIR just doesn't work that way even with active IR systems that use an IR spotlight for better resolution.
Again though, never argued people aren't or can't get busted. But reality is that FLIR can't/hasn't been able to even catch a small fraction of all the grows going on out there because so many of them are just smaller personal grows (under ~2,000w'ish of lighting) which produce relatively very little heat as far as a house is concerned. But even less people would get busted by FLIR if there was more understanding and less paranoia. Yes, big commercial grow ops in a residential neighborhoods... there's a good chance that LEO will take an interest if they see the house standing out unusually from the others around it. Otherwise, your biggest worry should be how/where you exhaust.
Put it through a common sense test. It would be a different story if FLIR could see through feet of dirt/concrete, make out individual grow lights, squirrel cage fans, people, etc. inside of buildings... this site likely wouldn't even exist if that were the case (except maybe the outdoor growing section) as a majority of us would be in jail. Don't know what else to say.
Start an op in a tin can shitbox and expect the same yourself.
doc111
Well-Known Member
I am a retired firefighter and a bit of an expert in thermal imaging and FLIR. This technology CANNOT see through walls, period. There may be some technology which I am unaware of but the current technology used by law enforcement can't see through walls. It reads surface temps and makes an image based on the differences in the surface temperature of the item being scanned. I have extensive knowledge on this subject and wouldn't tell anyone not to worry if there was cause for it. With adequate insulation and aircooled lighting there is almost no chance of getting spotted by FLIR. If you are a small personal grower (Under 2000w) you are not going to be picked up by FLIR. Only larger ops or people who don't take any precautions and are careless need worry about FLIR. 
Straight up G
New Member
I know this and know to trust any info you give on IR/FLIR good to let others know too though.I am a retired firefighter and a bit of an expert in thermal imaging and FLIR. This technology CANNOT see through walls, period. There may be some technology which I am unaware of but the current technology used by law enforcement can't see through walls. It reads surface temps and makes an image based on the differences in the surface temperature of the item being scanned. I have extensive knowledge on this subject and wouldn't tell anyone not to worry if there was cause for it. With adequate insulation and aircooled lighting there is almost no chance of getting spotted by FLIR. If you are a small personal grower (Under 2000w) you are not going to be picked up by FLIR. Only larger ops or people who don't take any precautions and are careless need worry about FLIR.
Doc111 FTW.
doc111
Well-Known Member
No problem. Just trying to keep the people informed and stop some of the scare tactics. This is one of them. Smell, traffic, idiotic behavior, suspicious items in trash; these are the things growers should be concerned with......they should be concerned about police helicopters also but it is way down the list.
Gwarthegreat
Member
so what if you have a bunch of low watt lights in a well vented room what are the chances that would show up?
doc111
Well-Known Member
You've got to be more specific. FLIR isn't magic. It cannot see through walls. It measures variations in surface temp and translates this into an image. If your house is well insulated and you don't have like 10 1000w hps, you're probably fine.
2000tranzam
Well-Known Member
So would you say having a sealed room that vents into a hole in the attic would be sufficient? Meaning would that venting create an even amount of heat there or would it signature a hot spot coming from out of that hole?
Gwarthegreat
Member
thank you thats what i was looking for and i dont got anything big i got 4 t5sYou've got to be more specific. FLIR isn't magic. It cannot see through walls. It measures variations in surface temp and translates this into an image. If your house is well insulated and you don't have like 10 1000w hps, you're probably fine.