Help needed any suggestion??

your math is wrong obviously not to be mean bro but you need to rethink your set up your plants look under lighted whispy, whorled, under watered and very much near the permanent wilting point if they look like that at four weeks flowering you need to evaluate your enviroment
I agree...my first grow turned out somewhat like this one, basically i didn't have enough light, air circulation or knowlegde period. So i agree with starting over if you can too. Take what you learned and apply it now to your next grow bro...good luck:leaf:
 

laserbrn

Well-Known Member
its a copy and paste. i have a few of those saved already too. lol. but i only copy and paste the stuff that needs to be said usually.like plant issues and stuff. still a good post tho. but hey we are generally all good peeps. altho a few of the jack offs on this site should choke and die on an tranny hookers penis. lmao. no offence to anyone that loves tranny hookers. lol.

i aerate my water overnight. speeds up the process and burns up a lot of un useful ppms. plus if i add the orca to my shit right off the bat the chlorine will kill it.
My post was not a copy and paste. I was just getting ready this morning and got caught up rattling off the details that I think are most basic and important. Writing them repeatedly will help you to always remember them as well. I do use copy/paste at times, but I always cite a source. Any other way is bullshit.

I aplogize if it was too much to read. I enjoy this shit and sometimes I get caught up. If there's a 50% chance that just 1% of that is useful to 1 in 100 people who read it...it was worth the time to write it. Even if it's someone remembering "ah, leave the tap water out to evap chlorine", it's worth it. On the off chance TwoToke looks at it and says..."I know good quality soil is important, but what is good quality soil? What should I be looking for?" and we discuss it for 2 pages, it was worth it. I don't care if it provides a question or an answer, it took maybe 5-10 minutes to write, I enjoy it, and there's a slight chance it'll save someone alot more time than that. If not, oh well, I spent 10 minutes on a weed forum..
 

TwoTokeSmoke

Active Member
Laser, Again I greatly appreciate it. Now on to the good stuff LOL.
So the seeds I planted 3 days ago are starting to break soil. If you or anyone can point me into the direction on the arsenal of the following I am going to need in the near future. More so what brands and types. I am really looking for something that is the most stable as for soil and nutes, something that produces decent results but is also user friendly. Not looking for the most expensive but something decent.

1. Soil for when they are "ready" to be transplanted from the Red cups they are in now.
2. Nutes Early Veg Nutes if any before they get transplanted.
3. Nutes Late Veg Nutes after they are transplanted.
4. Nutes Early Flower nutes.
5. Specialty items PH Up/Down, Cal/Mag, bone meal, anti Stress items etc....
6. Testing equipment ??????????
I currently do not have any nutes or soil picked out.
What I do have is some Epsoma garden lime, Molasses, H2O2, Epsom salt. For equipment I have a Temp/Rh meter, A cheap PH/Moisture meter, CFL's & Floros for Veg Lights, 400w HPS for flowering, Exhaust fan, Circulation fan. Just so you know I will be using Rain/Snow water, If this is not available which it should always be I will use city water and let it sit out 24 hours.
If anyone has any suggestions on items 1-6 or any items I may be missing please feel free to let me know.
Thanks.
 

wheels619

Well-Known Member
My post was not a copy and paste. I was just getting ready this morning and got caught up rattling off the details that I think are most basic and important. Writing them repeatedly will help you to always remember them as well. I do use copy/paste at times, but I always cite a source. Any other way is bullshit.

I aplogize if it was too much to read. I enjoy this shit and sometimes I get caught up. If there's a 50% chance that just 1% of that is useful to 1 in 100 people who read it...it was worth the time to write it. Even if it's someone remembering "ah, leave the tap water out to evap chlorine", it's worth it. On the off chance TwoToke looks at it and says..."I know good quality soil is important, but what is good quality soil? What should I be looking for?" and we discuss it for 2 pages, it was worth it. I don't care if it provides a question or an answer, it took maybe 5-10 minutes to write, I enjoy it, and there's a slight chance it'll save someone alot more time than that. If not, oh well, I spent 10 minutes on a weed forum..
oh no man it was a bangin post just lots of reading. lol. i probably should get a basis for growing l;ike u did i just never thought to put it down. its all in my bhead and i just post as i remember and it pops up. lol.
 

wheels619

Well-Known Member
Laser, Again I greatly appreciate it. Now on to the good stuff LOL.
So the seeds I planted 3 days ago are starting to break soil. If you or anyone can point me into the direction on the arsenal of the following I am going to need in the near future. More so what brands and types. I am really looking for something that is the most stable as for soil and nutes, something that produces decent results but is also user friendly. Not looking for the most expensive but something decent.

1. Soil for when they are "ready" to be transplanted from the Red cups they are in now.
2. Nutes Early Veg Nutes if any before they get transplanted.
3. Nutes Late Veg Nutes after they are transplanted.
4. Nutes Early Flower nutes.
5. Specialty items PH Up/Down, Cal/Mag, bone meal, anti Stress items etc....
6. Testing equipment ??????????
I currently do not have any nutes or soil picked out.
What I do have is some Epsoma garden lime, Molasses, H2O2, Epsom salt. For equipment I have a Temp/Rh meter, A cheap PH/Moisture meter, CFL's & Floros for Veg Lights, 400w HPS for flowering, Exhaust fan, Circulation fan. Just so you know I will be using Rain/Snow water, If this is not available which it should always be I will use city water and let it sit out 24 hours.
If anyone has any suggestions on items 1-6 or any items I may be missing please feel free to let me know.
Thanks.
in all honesty i could never pick up using soil. i tried it and always ended up with nute burn or not enought nutes. so i would say stay away from time released stuff. i personally use coco so i can avoid all the nuting issues. i use xnutrients for my growing now. have used cutting edge along with technaflora and a few others and for the cost xnutrients has made it worth it for me. the growth is the same as the more expensive brands and they have a basic 3 part and a more advaced line up after if u wanna take it that far. its just some food for thought. if u stay with soil pick a good soil to work with stay away from miracle grow till u are a more educated grower. its hard to work with sometimes. also a soil ph tester and a water ph tester is a good buy. maybe a ppm meter. try to get an all in one meter if u can. it will cost u more in the beginning but u wont have to fork out all the money for 4 diff testers so u end up saving. wishin u the best cuz im on a good jager and northern berry fade. :) lol. so i may edit this tomorrow when completely sober. lol. but its the basics u will need to look into.
 

wyteboi

Well-Known Member
well we got two choices with soil setups. 1. soil and instant food (chems) or 2. soil an organics.

if using chems you can get away with any soiless mix like promix or sunshine mix. (both are very cheap at the farm store) just mix with some perlite for extra drainage an let the food do its job.

if using organics then you should get a real dirt to start with. i like roots organic , but fox farm ocean forest or happy frog are good ones too. you need something thats not peat based.
For food , the 2 easy organic ones i can think of are fox farms 3 part , or pro blend pro 2 part. they are real easy to use.
Or you could use meals an guanos to feed with. (you adjust your own nutes to fit the stage in life) with organics you wont need any specialty items. no meters , no ph up or down.


we'll go from here .......





soil
 

laserbrn

Well-Known Member
Are you certain you want to grow in soil? Let's start with Soil v Hydro. I have experience with both and I believe that hydro is the hands down winner. My current soil grow looks very promising, but I'm yet to have a soil grow that rivals my hydro grows. Nobody who has smoked my stuff has ever even asked if it was growin in hydro or soil, they can't tell the difference. I can't tell the difference. I have grown the same strain both ways, same shit at the end. Soil is still a bit voodoo magic to me. I am on my 5th ot 6th soil grow and I still can't keep my plants as green and as happy as I can in my hydro grows. Don't get me wrong, it works and if I'd never grown hydro I would think it was the nuts, but I've seen the other side (muahahaha).

A lot of new growers want to start in soil because they think hydro is scary and daunting, but in reality, it's SO much easier than soil. When your PH is out of whack in your reservoir (hydro), you just adjust it. If you overfert your plants, just feed them 3 days of fresh water from a fresh reservoir and add nutes back slowly. No flushing out your soil and drowning your plants trying to take drastic measures to get them back in order. I feel like in hydro if you make a mistake, it's easily rectified and in soil sometimes it can be a lot more difficult if not downright impossible to recover from.
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
I am always willing to help anyone who is serious about growing. I tend not to help those that are way off track and have unrealistic expectations about what this hobby is. So far you've shown you are one of the good ones. Given some time and experience you'll be succusseful at this. I've been around doing it for 6 or 7 years now (hopeless before I found forums and which books to read) and I've learned a lot over my many grows. I've assisted others with many many grows in real life sorts speak, and I have a pretty good understanding of the "mentality" of the peopel who are generally succussful vs. those that don't get it, and will never get it.

Growing a plant indoors is in general not a difficult task, but there are a lot of details that you have to pay attention to and if all of those details are adhered to, leave it alone and don't try to play God. This is the basic list of details that are important. If you don't have a good understanding or you'd like some informaiton on any of these sections, please ask and we'll make sure you've got it down.

1) Temperature/Humidity/Ventilation

2) Light. Lots of it, used efficently during lights on. None of it, absolute darkness during lights out.

3) Containers - Proper color, proper drainage, maximize size for your space for the # of plants that you want to grow. More rootspace = bigger healthier plants.

4) Soil - A good quality soil save you a lot of trouble down the road. I use FFOF with Fox Farms nutrients and honestly, not that happy with them. But then, I'm going back to hydro after this grow. My last 3 or 4 have been soil as I've been trying to find the right "recipe" and while my plants are doing well, hydro has been more productive for me. I didn't want to leave a big gaping hole in my growing knowledge so I tried to put a legit amount of time into being a dirtfarmer. I believe it's a total of 5 grows in soil for me and that's enough.

5) Water(ing) - Your water source should be good clean water. Some people can get away with using tap water. As such most nutrient manufacturers do not add Cal and sometimes Mag (depends on lineup in my experience) because it's found in tap water. If you live somewhere with particularly hard water (high ppm) you should avoid using tap water. If your water is relatively soft (200ppm or less) then it's generally better to go ahead an use the tap water. If tap water is used, let it sit out for 24 hours with the lid off to evaporate chlorine

If you use distilled water or water that has been purified (generally through Reverse Osmosis) then you will certainly need to add Cal/Mag and I prefer a product from Botanicare called Cal Mag Plus. I add it to RO water because I find it gives me consistency no matter when I move or what the water is like, I start from zero PPM. I started in hydro so I think it's just a thing now for me.

The watering schedule and practices are also very important. The plants should be watered only when the container is dry. This is generally a longer duration during the early days and shorter near the end. Do not water just the center or just the edge of the container. If this soil is allowed to become very dry the water will find paths to follow and you'll notice that it drains very quickly. Simply dumping around the edges will allow the water to pass straight through, out the drainage holes and never have a real chance at resaturating the soil. Apply the water at a pace that allows the soil to absorb it. Spread the water evenly between center and edges. You do want the entire pot moist as best as possible as it encourages healthy root growth and ensures that you are using as much of the rootmass as possible. It took all that time to grow it, use it!

6) Feeding Schedule and nutrients - With good quality soil you won't need nutrients until about 6 weeks into it. The most important tidbit that I can offer on this subject that is so damned vast, is that nutrients do not make your plants grow faster, bigger, or have larger yields.
If your plant has adequate access to the nutrients that it needs it will grow as fast as your lights and it's genetics will grow. If it is lacking access, it will show symptoms as it begins to use its own stores to continue on. If it has an abundance it will burn or it will suffer from toxicity.

7) Pests. There are lots of them. I have addressed this problem by bug bombing twice during every grow. Once at the beginning of the last week of veg and again at the end of the first week of flower. Using this regimen I have never had to deal with spidermites, thrips, aphids, or any of the other crapola that is out there. If you don't want to use pesticide just make sure that you are doing something to fight this fight before it becomes a problem. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure (or however that goes). After I see "crowns" on my plants it is to me, to0 late to use pesticides without risking having residue on or in the final product. That's why I get it done before the planst have "flowered" at all and it has prevented any late flowering problems for me.

Good luck...If you have any problems or questions feel free to ask. There is a lot of information on this forum on every subject imagineable so don't be scared to use the search function. I'm not sure if the growFAQ is still up, most of it is pretty outdated, but the plants grow the same way so it's still valid. I realize that you know alot of this information, but in case you missed something or had a question about something I just want to make sure you've got ALL of the basics that you need to get to the end with a successful crop. There are more details in between, but they can be addressed during the grow if they come up, this is a good start. If you've got all these things, you've got a good start.
And there it is yet again, another unsatisfied FF customer. Earlier in this thread, you mentioned that MG was suitable for growing plants. In my experience, MG is good for growing tomatoes/peppers but not weed. I started with MG 10 years ago, and found out real quick the only way to use it was diluted. And it appears Fox Farm can now be classified the same, it's of little wonder why they sell a flush. And now you are going back to a water medium b/c your soil medium didn't work.

May I make a humble suggestion here for both you and the OP?...go organic with 4 simple ingredients. I found an entire pallet of organic potting soil at Lowe's home improvement. I used that as a base, then added worm castings, mushroom compost, and perlite. For less than $20, I made almost 40 lbs. of blended medium. The only other nute I use is molasses tea, every other watering right up to chop.

I don't feel that there are many people here that suck at growing things. I hear it a lot, but don't really believe it b/c I blame the products/and their labeling instructions.
 

laserbrn

Well-Known Member
And there it is yet again, another unsatisfied FF customer. Earlier in this thread, you mentioned that MG was suitable for growing plants. In my experience, MG is good for growing tomatoes/peppers but not weed. I started with MG 10 years ago, and found out real quick the only way to use it was diluted. And it appears Fox Farm can now be classified the same, it's of little wonder why they sell a flush. And now you are going back to a water medium b/c your soil medium didn't work.

May I make a humble suggestion here for both you and the OP?...go organic with 4 simple ingredients. I found an entire pallet of organic potting soil at Lowe's home improvement. I used that as a base, then added worm castings, mushroom compost, and perlite. For less than $20, I made almost 40 lbs. of blended medium. The only other nute I use is molasses tea, every other watering right up to chop.

I don't feel that there are many people here that suck at growing things. I hear it a lot, but don't really believe it b/c I blame the products/and their labeling instructions.
I mentioned that MG CAN grow plants. I worded it that way for a reason. If I make a statement such as you just made, 35 people will post defending MG, show pics of their plants, we'll have a huge debate about it and we'll be completely off topic for 2 1/2 pages. I don't recommend MG for marijuana. I can't really recommend Fox Farms either. The soil is great for veggin' plants, but through flower it does always seem to be a bit of a struggle. After 5 grows I've sorta worked it out now, but even then, not perfect and I still feel like it's a struggle to keep thinks in balance. It sure should be simpler than this. I may try an organic in the future, but I'm switching back to hydro for my next grow. I miss my timers and pumps, lol.
 

TwoTokeSmoke

Active Member
Yes, I believe I am going to take the dirt road.... I understand from where you are coming from on the Hydro and have read a lot about it but at the present time I want to grow in soil. Please don't get me wrong I really like the idea of hydro and may switch to that down the road but I would prefer to continue with soil as I have already started there and want to get this down first. Never been one to just give up or try to take they "easier" way out.

I believe I may go the Organic route this go around. From what I have researched and heard about it I think that may be my direction.
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
Yes, I believe I am going to take the dirt road.... I understand from where you are coming from on the Hydro and have read a lot about it but at the present time I want to grow in soil. Please don't get me wrong I really like the idea of hydro and may switch to that down the road but I would prefer to continue with soil as I have already started there and want to get this down first. Never been one to just give up or try to take they "easier" way out.

I believe I may go the Organic route this go around. From what I have researched and heard about it I think that may be my direction.
In that case, I would recommend locating your nearest garden supply center. I would call ahead first b/c this time of year stocks are very limited. I got lucky with organic potting soil at Lowe's(of all places), it was a leftover from last Summer. Also, I'm sure it's somewhere in this thread already but check the bags for any holes and try to avoid purchasing anything stored outdoors.

The best person here to talk to is farmerjoe down in the organics section...he either works in or owns a commercial greenhouse co. I believe.

Edit:
https://www.rollitup.org/organics/495542-what-am-i-missing.html

Good luck!
 

laserbrn

Well-Known Member
I have to comment Sunbiz1 after the aweful week I had on this forum last week. I like the suggestion to use organics and I like that he gave references, and did NOT pretend to be an absolute expert and present himself as something that he is not. His link to his own thread inquiring about organics is fantastic. If we had more members like this instead of posers who feel inadequate if they don't have EVERY answer and can't present themselves as an absolute expert on all things.

I personally haven't attempted an organic grow, although I believe that if I do ever go back down the dirt road I will likely start there. I haven't been terribly happy with Fox Farms lineup/soil combo, so perhaps a start in that general direction is better. I can't offer much help in that department, but there is a lot of good documentation available here about it. If you do go organic, please, please leave a full journal. I'd like to follow along and follow the information and guidance that you get and see how it turns out.
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
I have to comment Sunbiz1 after the aweful week I had on this forum last week. I like the suggestion to use organics and I like that he gave references, and did NOT pretend to be an absolute expert and present himself as something that he is not. His link to his own thread inquiring about organics is fantastic. If we had more members like this instead of posers who feel inadequate if they don't have EVERY answer and can't present themselves as an absolute expert on all things.

I personally haven't attempted an organic grow, although I believe that if I do ever go back down the dirt road I will likely start there. I haven't been terribly happy with Fox Farms lineup/soil combo, so perhaps a start in that general direction is better. I can't offer much help in that department, but there is a lot of good documentation available here about it. If you do go organic, please, please leave a full journal. I'd like to follow along and follow the information and guidance that you get and see how it turns out.
There is a sales rep in my area from Fox Farm, he keeps calling on a local nursery I buy supplies from. Last week I finally had a talk w/the manager there. They only have so much indoor room to stock during Winter, and I don't want FF products replacing the ones I purchase there. Let the local hydro shop charge 18 bucks a bag, then try and sell people on a feeding schedule that is overkill IMHO. If I can take a plant, throw it in unamended soil(well almost)in the middle of nowhere and be successful...I see no reason why everyone cannot be successful growing organically in a controlled environment. I did nothing special, simply allowed nature to finish the job I started. It's when I try and improve upon nature I get myself into trouble. Last Summer I decided to overdo a plant on molasses in-ground...lost 30% of my fan leaves and a QP less upon harvesting it.

Speaking of grow logs, I have 2 herijuana and 1 jackberry kush just out of the ground. I'm too lazy for grow logs though, but certainly would be willing to follow along with the OP.
 

laserbrn

Well-Known Member
Outdoor organic and indoor organic or "potted organic" to me are two different world. I have an organic garden outdoors in my backyard and it damn near works itself. In a potted environment it doesn't seem quite so straightforward. I have had pretty good success with soil growing, just not exactly what I am looking for.

I agree the Fox Farms Feeding schedule is out of control. It flat out doesn't work unless you want to burn and mame your plants. If you cut it in half, you have a good start. I don't mean start it half strength, I mean aim to finish at half strength. Some strains a little more, some a little less.
 

laserbrn

Well-Known Member
Laser, Again I greatly appreciate it. Now on to the good stuff LOL.
So the seeds I planted 3 days ago are starting to break soil. If you or anyone can point me into the direction on the arsenal of the following I am going to need in the near future. More so what brands and types. I am really looking for something that is the most stable as for soil and nutes, something that produces decent results but is also user friendly. Not looking for the most expensive but something decent.

1. Soil for when they are "ready" to be transplanted from the Red cups they are in now.
2. Nutes Early Veg Nutes if any before they get transplanted.
3. Nutes Late Veg Nutes after they are transplanted.
4. Nutes Early Flower nutes.
5. Specialty items PH Up/Down, Cal/Mag, bone meal, anti Stress items etc....
6. Testing equipment ??????????
I currently do not have any nutes or soil picked out.
What I do have is some Epsoma garden lime, Molasses, H2O2, Epsom salt. For equipment I have a Temp/Rh meter, A cheap PH/Moisture meter, CFL's & Floros for Veg Lights, 400w HPS for flowering, Exhaust fan, Circulation fan. Just so you know I will be using Rain/Snow water, If this is not available which it should always be I will use city water and let it sit out 24 hours.
If anyone has any suggestions on items 1-6 or any items I may be missing please feel free to let me know.
Thanks.
Your nutrient lineup and soil go hand in hand. If you are going to go fully organic then it's just a matter of ammending the soil properly and having enough to make it to the end. I believe that some growers will "brew" some teas that they can use if their soil isn't working it out, but I believe that the goal for the most part is to go all the way to the end with the soil life you have going on. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
Outdoor organic and indoor organic or "potted organic" to me are two different world. I have an organic garden outdoors in my backyard and it damn near works itself. In a potted environment it doesn't seem quite so straightforward. I have had pretty good success with soil growing, just not exactly what I am looking for.

I agree the Fox Farms Feeding schedule is out of control. It flat out doesn't work unless you want to burn and mame your plants. If you cut it in half, you have a good start. I don't mean start it half strength, I mean aim to finish at half strength. Some strains a little more, some a little less.
That soil in your yard is gold, and there are ways to control the gnats if the problem should arise. LOL, by the end of the day I might just change your mind. That soil is already full of microbes, add some molasses and it really gets the ball rolling.

I can understand the hydro argument, it is less work. Although, there was some guy in another thread the other day who was about to flush his entire system with molasses water...hope he didn't actually do it.
 

laserbrn

Well-Known Member
That soil in your yard is gold, and there are ways to control the gnats if the problem should arise. LOL, by the end of the day I might just change your mind. That soil is already full of microbes, add some molasses and it really gets the ball rolling.

I can understand the hydro argument, it is less work. Although, there was some guy in another thread the other day who was about to flush his entire system with molasses water...hope he didn't actually do it.
I have actually found hydro to be quite a bit of work. I hear people say all of the time that it's easier, but I went to soil because to me it was a lot easier. The absolute BEST hydro grow I've had I did with a method that is NOT fun and IS a lot of work. I tried lots of ways and unfortunately on my next grow I'm going back to the "hard way". My yield was bigger, the buds were bigger, just lots of things better about it. The only thing not better....the work.

2-3 large bags of hydroton that all need to be cleaned. I live in a house now so it's much easier, but doing it in the bathtub of an apartment was a real PITA. No really I just need a furniture dolly and some big trashcans with hole in the bottom or a mesh screen. Not nearly the same amount of hassle. It seems though that if that taproot never finds and "end" it'll keep growing like crazy and the rootmass gets enormous which in turn means enormous plants. Any kind of container seems to limit its size. So...back to just a tray full of hydroton.
 

TwoTokeSmoke

Active Member
I have to comment Sunbiz1 after the aweful week I had on this forum last week. I like the suggestion to use organics and I like that he gave references, and did NOT pretend to be an absolute expert and present himself as something that he is not. His link to his own thread inquiring about organics is fantastic. If we had more members like this instead of posers who feel inadequate if they don't have EVERY answer and can't present themselves as an absolute expert on all things.

I personally haven't attempted an organic grow, although I believe that if I do ever go back down the dirt road I will likely start there. I haven't been terribly happy with Fox Farms lineup/soil combo, so perhaps a start in that general direction is better. I can't offer much help in that department, but there is a lot of good documentation available here about it. If you do go organic, please, please leave a full journal. I'd like to follow along and follow the information and guidance that you get and see how it turns out.
I fully intend on keeping a journal this go around. I do have a questions maybe someone here could help me out on?? How do you post the link to your journal in your signature for quick reference for everyone to find it???
 

laserbrn

Well-Known Member
I fully intend on keeping a journal this go around. I do have a questions maybe someone here could help me out on?? How do you post the link to your journal in your signature for quick reference for everyone to find it???

Copy the address for the first page of your journal.

Click on "My Rollitup" --> (left hand side) Edit Signature --> Insert a hyperlink.

You can just paste the link in your signature, but it will come out ugly. I type the words, then highlight them, then click "Insert Hyperlink". Sometimes I make it colorful, but this time I was too lazy.
 
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