Get a Harvest Every 2 Weeks

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Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Suffering from nutrient lockout due to broken pH meter. [...]
Time for a new meter, eh?

Any advice would be appreciated. Specifically, what to do now. (Sitting in tap water w/pH about 7.6-I THINK, no chems of any kind, at the moment.)
Don't leave them sitting in water for any length of time (ie more than 15 mins max). Will drown the roots- and you think you already had problems!

Speaking of the pHup/down, in the winter just a touch was sufficient, lately it takes A LOT.(Which led me to believe the pH meter was broke...that and the fact it read 5.7 but with barley ANY nutes looked like Pics*)
Tapwater pH can vary seasonally and also after heavy rains in some areas. Heavy rain may wash pathogens out of catchments and into reservoirs, requiring additional treatment at the water plant.

What did the meter say when you put it in your 4.0 & 7.0 calibration solutions?
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
1 Fan Swamp Chiller
i've seen them used in hardcore Canadian Medical Grow ops.
ah, swamp coolers. Not useful in grow ops, regardless of how many you have seen used in them. Patently unwise. They cool air only slightly by evaporating water. This will cause a huge spike in humidity. High humidity will encourage mould, powdery mildew, etc. Swamp coolers- nyet!

If your temps are too high and the air you have available for intake is below your target range of 24-26C, increase the ventilation throughflow. Use a bigger exhaust blower, install an intake blower, install cooltubes (highly effective for reducing temps) or otherwise improve the efficiency of the ventilation system. If ambient air available to pump through the op is warmer than 24-26C, aircon is unfortunately the only way to go.
How often does your exhaust system run while the both cooltubed 1000w lights are on?
Hard to say. Varies tremendously depending upon the intake air temp. Now that we're in the cooler part of the year, with intake air at 16-18C, the exhaust doesn't have to run long nor often to hold the room at 25C +/- 1C, perhaps 4-5 mins a couple of times an hour, if that much.
 

firsttimegrowerr

Well-Known Member
Hi Al, Iv been busy catching up on the thread. And in 3 pages of reading I learn more then 50 different articles. =)

I bought the GH Florea Nova Grow( 7-4-10) and Bloom (4-8-7). Do I just add nutes and match the ppm to your ppm and that would give me the same amount of nutes as you use? Also I read somewhere that h2o2 can be only added to tap water because it reacts with the nutes. How and when do you add it?

THANKS AL! id be so lost without you
 

cmak40

Well-Known Member
you must be lost with him then to because these answers are here to...look for your specific nute chart and foolow that chart. al uses canna nutrients which will probably have a diff feeding schedule. h2o2 is harmful for ORGANIC nutrients which have LIVING microorganisms and chemical nutrients do not have these propertise so they are not harmed by the peroxide...

al can you add a poll to see how many people are actually attempting this grow. i have followed this to a T since february and about 6 weeks from ACTUAL PERPETUAL growth. I HAVE READ ALL OF THIS THREAD AND COME BACK EVERYDAY TO FIND THE SAME QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. i would like to see how many people are actually using this info...
 

firsttimegrowerr

Well-Known Member
Im acutally on page 85 of this thread trying to read every one. This is my first time ever growing so i just wanted to clear a few things up.

And i understand that diff nutes have different feeding sheduals but my question was can i just use the same ppm and will it work?

Sorry if these seem like stupid questions im still learning THanks
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
I bought the GH Florea Nova Grow( 7-4-10) and Bloom (4-8-7). Do I just add nutes and match the ppm to your ppm and that would give me the same amount of nutes as you use?
Sorry, I really can't help you much with GH's stuff, I've never used it. I've always thought anything more than 2-part nutes are just too complex. 3-part nutes might be highly configurable, but do you REALLY need all that monkeying around? I've seen the GH/Lucas method discussed- and I think I'd rather blow my brains out than go to that level of stuffing around. However, as you said, it stands to reason that if you mix for 1400ppm, you ought not to get in any trouble.

Also I read somewhere that h2o2 can be only added to tap water because it reacts with the nutes. How and when do you add it?
H2O2 will only react with organic based nutes. It will break down organic nutes straight away- you can watch the foaming action while it's happening, too! 'Chemical' based nutes are fine with H2O2.

When I mix a fresh tank, I fill each tank about halfway, add 125ml H2O2, then add the parts A&B of my nutes (450ml each these days) to get 1400-1560ppm per my Truncheon meter. About 10-15ml of pHDown is needed in each 125L tank (with the present pH of my tap water, 7.1 right now) to set the pH at 5.8. The nutes alone will get it to about 6.1.

al can you add a poll to see how many people are actually attempting this grow. i have followed this to a T since february and about 6 weeks from ACTUAL PERPETUAL growth. I HAVE READ ALL OF THIS THREAD AND COME BACK EVERYDAY TO FIND THE SAME QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. i would like to see how many people are actually using this info...
The problem is that the thread is SO LONG that most people don't try to read it all the way through (big ups to everyone who has put in the time & effort!). Like I've said before, I have a lot of sympathy for anyone trying to use this thread as a reference. That's the main reason I keep getting asked the same stuff over and over and over. I do answer most questions out of courtesy, but it's nice when folks have clearly put in the time to read what I have put in quite a lot of time writing- and I do notice when someone has done the backgrounding.

Over the past year, I have seen a lot of folks make mention of having a go at the perpetual SoG, but there's surely just as many lurkers, quietly reading and just doing it. To be deadly honest, it's not so important for me to know how many people have implemented my scheme. My ego's not really that overdeveloped. ;) I just want people to be able to run an op that makes the best use of their time and effort. I've fucked up just about everything you can fuck up in this style of op and I'm always learning something new, so there's a lot of learning curve spinouts that folks can avoid if they are paying attention. Remember that I'm a stoned slacker who could fuck up an anvil with a rubber mallet, so if there's a fuckup to be found, I've surely found it. :D

Im acutally on page 85 of this thread trying to read every one. This is my first time ever growing so i just wanted to clear a few things up.

And i understand that diff nutes have different feeding sheduals but my question was can i just use the same ppm and will it work?
Nutes are really small potatoes in the general scheme of things. Far FAR too much is made of nutrients in hydroponic growing. I feel particularly sad for folks who have invested fat cash in a bunch of different magic sauces, most which are of totally dubious benefit. If I had to put figures on it, I'd say that 80-90% of a good grow is conditions in the op, not the nutes.

The vast majority of what you need to do is get the lighting, ventilation and watering all right. If you set your nute strength to 1400ppm, that's all you need to do, regardless of the brand of nutes. Try the very cheapest nutes you can buy. Often, that's some house-branded sauce, mixed up in the back room at Ye Olde Hydroe Shoppe. The downside is that small batch nutes are never as consistent as those from large, well-known nute makers- but they almost certainly will work.
 

DrGreenFinger

Well-Known Member
you must be lost with him then to because these answers are here to...look for your specific nute chart and foolow that chart. al uses canna nutrients which will probably have a diff feeding schedule. h2o2 is harmful for ORGANIC nutrients which have LIVING microorganisms and chemical nutrients do not have these propertise so they are not harmed by the peroxide...

al can you add a poll to see how many people are actually attempting this grow. i have followed this to a T since february and about 6 weeks from ACTUAL PERPETUAL growth. I HAVE READ ALL OF THIS THREAD AND COME BACK EVERYDAY TO FIND THE SAME QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. i would like to see how many people are actually using this info...
dont let it bother you, its a small thing to a giant. :peace: :joint:
 

dertmagert

Well-Known Member
3-part nutes might be highly configurable, but do you REALLY need all that monkeying around? I've seen the GH/Lucas method discussed- and I think I'd rather blow my brains out than go to that level of stuffing around.
jeez.. u act like its rocket science.. the lucas formula is GH flora's 3 part nutes minus 1 part (the gh flora grow) is not needed in using this formula because there is enough nitrogen in the gh flora micro.. .

all u do is use 5ml flora micro(per gallon), 10ml flora bloom for veg
and 8ml flora micro, 16ml flora bloom for flower... i found this to be quite simple.. dont know why u would result to blowing your brains out over something of this caliber, taking into consideration the amount of effort you put into your grow op..
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
jeez.. u act like its rocket science..
Keeping in mind that I'm a stoned slacker, by comparison to remembering a single measurement for nutes (450ml 'A' + 450ml 'B' in a tank) and just repeating it, forever- it IS rocket science! :lol:

Has anyone here yet worked out that I don't actually like growing dope that much? I'm always working out a way to do less, remember less or otherwise. I just want the dope to grow and let me know when it's ready to be smoked! :lol:
 

DrGreenFinger

Well-Known Member
Keeping in mind that I'm a stoned slacker, by comparison to remembering a single measurement for nutes (450ml 'A' + 450ml 'B' in a tank) and just repeating it, forever- it IS rocket science! :lol:

Has anyone here yet worked out that I don't actually like growing dope that much? I'm always working out a way to do less, remember less or otherwise. I just want the dope to grow and let me know when it's ready to be smoked! :lol:
for sure!!! :blsmoke:
 

GoodFriend

Lumberjack
Keeping in mind that I'm a stoned slacker, by comparison to remembering a single measurement for nutes (450ml 'A' + 450ml 'B' in a tank) and just repeating it, forever- it IS rocket science! :lol:

Has anyone here yet worked out that I don't actually like growing dope that much? I'm always working out a way to do less, remember less or otherwise. I just want the dope to grow and let me know when it's ready to be smoked! :lol:

... so your saying it doesn't still bring a smile to your face walking into the room and being surrounded by beautiful buds????????????


:mrgreen::blsmoke::blsmoke::blsmoke:
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
... so your saying it doesn't still bring a smile to your face walking into the room and being surrounded by beautiful buds????????????
It never HAS brought a smile to my face! When I look in a grow op, I'm looking more for what's going wrong than what's right. It is a task. I don't hang out in my grow op for shits and giggles.
 

RisingStock

Active Member
Hey Al....

Thanks for the input...as far as drowning the roots, I doubt it...it's a Deep Water Culture Op (DWC)....so it WAS sitting in tapwater, but after reading how to 'flush' is now in pH'd water (old fashioned droplet checker) of about 5.8-6.0. Going to do this for 3-4 more days and then slowly re-introduce nutes. I'm afraid the bloomers ar shot, but still hope for the moms....I HOPE!! (Or it's back to the proverbial drawing board.)

Frustrating thing was it was a very weak nute solution, and pH meter read at a perfect 5.7.....but either that was totally wrong OR I'm missing something else. The unknown is far scarier.......and frustrating.

Which all leads to my next question. How much does relative humidity affect plants. As a for example, how about a plant with pH 5.5 and a plant with 6.3, both in a dry room? (A post I read lead me to believe this can actually be a very BIG deal(?))


Thanks Al
 

GoodFriend

Lumberjack
It never HAS brought a smile to my face! When I look in a grow op, I'm looking more for what's going wrong than what's right. It is a task. I don't hang out in my grow op for shits and giggles.

... that's kinda sad....

that would make this so much harder if i didn't love what i was doing... huh


to each their own! smoke on brother!
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Hey Al....

Thanks for the input...as far as drowning the roots, I doubt it...it's a Deep Water Culture Op (DWC)....so it WAS sitting in tapwater, but after reading how to 'flush' is now in pH'd water (old fashioned droplet checker) of about 5.8-6.0. Going to do this for 3-4 more days and then slowly re-introduce nutes. I'm afraid the bloomers ar shot, but still hope for the moms....I HOPE!! (Or it's back to the proverbial drawing board.)

Frustrating thing was it was a very weak nute solution, and pH meter read at a perfect 5.7.....but either that was totally wrong OR I'm missing something else. The unknown is far scarier.......and frustrating.

Which all leads to my next question. How much does relative humidity affect plants. As a for example, how about a plant with pH 5.5 and a plant with 6.3, both in a dry room? (A post I read lead me to believe this can actually be a very BIG deal(?))


Thanks Al
Ah, OK, lights are on now, thanks. :)

A weak nute soln can be 5.7 as can be one that is so strong as to kill your plants outright.

What was your pH meter reading in your 4.0 & 7.0 calibration solutions?

Might be a real good time to do a batch of cuttings, if the mums aren't too cooked yet.

I wouldn't have thought there was any relationship at all between RH & pH, except for that one pesky letter 'H'. :lol:

... that's kinda sad....

that would make this so much harder if i didn't love what i was doing... huh
Well, I'm afraid it's like work to me, most days anyway. It's most like work when I'm trying to sort out a persistent problem. I'd rather be having a coffee, smoking a cone and fucking around on the net. :lol:
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
AL B. FUCT,

I stole part of one of your posts and copied it here -- https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/73464-water-cooled-lights-liquid-lumens.html#post845345
PLEASE HAVE A LOOK!
I don't see where you credited my writing in your post. That IS theft.

You've also failed to reflect my whole opinion of these water cooled cooltubes:
If you absolutely cannot remove heat via an air cooling system, the "Fresca Sol" water cooled light will do very well, for sure.

Keep in mind that the makers say you need 50gal (189L) of water per 1000W light. I simply would not have room in my op for 378L worth of tanks for cooing lights.

However, the complexities and necessary maintenance of a water cooling system make it a 2nd best choice to air cooled cooltubes. Air cooled tubes need dusting once a year or so- that's about it.
Also, who is BUDGI and why do most of that user's posts spam up these water cooled tubes?
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Holy sales pitch, Batman!

No Bulb Heat
After a few hours running, the glass on the bottom of a typical 1000W air-cooled set up is usually between 120 and 130 degrees F. With the Hydroflector Hybrid, after 8 hours of running continuously with water chilled to 65 degrees F, the inner surface of the glass won’t exceed 80 degrees F.
What crap. My air-cooled cooltubes' surfaces- ABOVE the lamp- don't exceed 28C. I can lay my hand on them all day long.



Chiller Downtime
While a ¼ HP chiller draws about the same amount of power as a typical 8” fan (3.6A for the chiller vs. 3.8A for the fan), the fan runs continuously while the chiller’s compressor only comes on periodically. Every minute the chiller’s compressor doesn’t run is a minute you’d have been paying for the fan to run.
Where the hell are they getting the idea that a cooltube blower takes 3.8 amps (456W on 120V) to run?! The Allvent A60 pushing air through my tubes draws 35W- that's 0.145A (145mA) at 240V or 0.291A (291mA) on 120V. A "1/4 HP chiller" which draws 3.6A @ 120V is consuming 432 watts! That's enough for a 400W HPS!

Don't believe every sales pitch you read!
 

GrowBigOrGrowHome

Well-Known Member
Holy crap. I made it to the end of this marathon (even though the finish line kept moving further away.) Thank you so much for donating all of your time to this thread and all the info Al. I think I need to read it again and take notes this time.

I had a couple of questions about the AAW reflectors (sorry if I missed 'em.) Do you know why the adjust-a-wings come in two different sizes based on wattage? Wouldn't that have to do more with how much spread you want or is it that the higher wattage bulbs are physically bigger in size?

Thanks again. I really appreciate your level headed, results driven philosophy towards growing, the minimal effort you want to put into it so you aren't married to your grow all the time and all the advice about the gimicky crap that we don't need to buy in order to grow great bud!
 
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