Chemical Trails????

F

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
BCtrippin said:
Nice post. I like that one that curves around, Id love to hear someone explain how vapor can do that.




:peace:
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the curved one was a U-turn. dude must have forgot something. he came from the north and did a complete 180. i watched him until he disappeared. i'm on the west coast. he was heading to the bay area, i assume. then he turned around. he didn't turn and go to hawaii, he turned around and went back due north. a huge jet. :-?:-|

i just found it odd. i have no idea what it was about.
 
BCtrippin

BCtrippin

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
Well then did you open the thread up with questions like: "anyone have any ideas?"
"anyone know anything about this?"

I am more than willing to take a step back and start over again from the beginning. All I ask is that you do the same and give me the same courtesy by providing actual evidence and scientific explanation that contradicts the information I and others have offered, rather than just your opinion that we're wrong.
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I dont think I said your opinion is wrong. Im trying to look at the differences, Iv seen all kinds of pics of vapor trails, Im not looking for more info on vapor.

Questions are just questions. Someone answering a question for me once shouldnt change my beliefs. Im not passing off what you say, I appreciate the input, but if Im still unsure about something Im going to keep asking quesitons, and talking to different people.


Your asking me to just accept everything you say as fact and that chem trails do not exist? Well Im not gonna do that. I will keep an open mind. Like I said many times in this thread, I dont know if they do exist or not, But Im not gonna throw everything under the Vapor Trail category and let it go. Im going to keep researching the subject till I am satisfied with my beliefs.

Theres been lots of stuff posted by me and other members, go through the thread and check it out.



:peace:
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
BCtrippin said:
The J.A.N.E.T. terminal in Las Vegas that flys to Area 51. Private airport with all private jets. Just Another Not Existent Air Terminal. Look it up, go to Nevada and see it for yourself, its very real and not conspiracy BS.
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Nope, you're right, no conspiracy here. Just a way to bridge between "white" and "black" worlds.
Janet flights are certainly for real. In order to understand Janet flights, you have to understand a bit about air traffic control. How does one fly to a “place that doesn’t exist?" most Janet flights shuttle between Palmdale, Edwards Air Force Base, Las Vegas, the Tonopah Test Range, and Groom Lake (Area 51). All of these places, with the exception of Groom Lake (which is so “black” that it “doesn’t exist”) have international airport codes issued by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO). Palmdale is KPMD, Edwards is KEDW, Las Vegas is KLAS, and the Tonopah Test Range (a somewhat “grey” facility) uses the code KTNX.

Air traffic is coordinated at several levels, from the local to the regional. At the smallest scale, each airport directs the air traffic coming in and out of a given airport. For example, LAS controls all the aircraft that want to either take off or land at Las Vegas’ McCarren Airport. But once aircraft have departed from a given airport and enter the high-altitude air traffic lanes, they come under the control of regional air traffic centers (there are eleven of these centers).

So, how does all of this work for a Janet flight from Las Vegas to Groom Lake? The answer is a makeshift system of “nudges and winks” and “cover stories” between the Janets and the regional control centers. A routine Janet flight will take off from LAS with a flight plan filed for TNX (Tonopah Test Range) using the callsign “Janet.” Once in the air, the plane is handed off to the regional control center, which is Nellis Center. Again, the callsign remains “Janet.” What happens next depends on whether the Janet is actually flying to the Tonopah Test Range, or whether its destination is actually Groom Lake. If the real destination is TNX, then the plane will operate under the control of Nellis until it’s handed off to the local air traffic controller at TNX, who will clear the plane to land at the air base, again using the callsign “Janet.” Interestingly, however, when this hand-off from Nellis to TNX occurs, the Nellis controller will not issue the Janet a specific frequency for the TNX approach, as is the custom with other destinations. But, if the actual destination is Area 51, something else happens. Once the Janet enters military airspace near Groom Lake, Nellis Center will simply clear the Janet for handoff to something called simply “control.” Nellis center approves a frequency change to the new controller, but doesn’t issue a frequency – with a nudge and a wink, the Nellis Control says in effect “I know where you’re going, and you know that I know where you’re going, and you already have the frequencies you need.”

Now, if you have a scanner, a good antenna, and you know the civilian air traffic frequencies for Groom Lake (I can supply some of them for you if you want), you’ll hear something unusual happen. An airplane (the Janet) will come to life on the Area 51 approach frequencies using a code name like “Foxy,” “Bones,” “Racer,” or “Hawk” – the code name changes every month. The unnamed “control” (Area 51) will clear the plane to land at the “non-existent” air base. An interesting tidbit: until the mid 1990s, the anonymous Groom Lake control tower used the enigmatic name “Dreamland” to identify itself.
 
BCtrippin

BCtrippin

Well-Known Member
fdd2blk said:
the curved one was a U-turn. dude must have forgot something. he came from the north and did a complete 180. i watched him until he disappeared. i'm on the west coast. he was heading to the bay area, i assume. then he turned around. he didn't turn and go to hawaii, he turned around and went back due north. a huge jet. :-?:-|

i just found it odd. i have no idea what it was about.
Click to expand...
That is weird. Yeah Im on the west coast as well, about 2 miles north of the Bellingham, Washington border. Thats why I started this thread, I was sitting at my computer and noticed the jet, so I had to take some pics for once.


I always see jets flying over Washington state/Canada border when they leave trails. They always fly up from the south, leave the trails roughly along the border for a few miles and take off down south.

It wouldnt be so wierd if the airliners and all the other jets flying around on the same day were leaving trails, but they dont. Its always on the bright clear days, and its always appears to be a jet doing something out of the ordinary, they never appear to be doing anything productive or going anywhere in a hurry.


:peace:
 
NewGrowth

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
Nope, you're right, no conspiracy here. Just a way to bridge between "white" and "black" worlds.
Janet flights are certainly for real. In order to understand Janet flights, you have to understand a bit about air traffic control. How does one fly to a “place that doesn’t exist?" most Janet flights shuttle between Palmdale, Edwards Air Force Base, Las Vegas, the Tonopah Test Range, and Groom Lake (Area 51). All of these places, with the exception of Groom Lake (which is so “black” that it “doesn’t exist”) have international airport codes issued by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO). Palmdale is KPMD, Edwards is KEDW, Las Vegas is KLAS, and the Tonopah Test Range (a somewhat “grey” facility) uses the code KTNX.

Air traffic is coordinated at several levels, from the local to the regional. At the smallest scale, each airport directs the air traffic coming in and out of a given airport. For example, LAS controls all the aircraft that want to either take off or land at Las Vegas’ McCarren Airport. But once aircraft have departed from a given airport and enter the high-altitude air traffic lanes, they come under the control of regional air traffic centers (there are eleven of these centers).

So, how does all of this work for a Janet flight from Las Vegas to Groom Lake? The answer is a makeshift system of “nudges and winks” and “cover stories” between the Janets and the regional control centers. A routine Janet flight will take off from LAS with a flight plan filed for TNX (Tonopah Test Range) using the callsign “Janet.” Once in the air, the plane is handed off to the regional control center, which is Nellis Center. Again, the callsign remains “Janet.” What happens next depends on whether the Janet is actually flying to the Tonopah Test Range, or whether its destination is actually Groom Lake. If the real destination is TNX, then the plane will operate under the control of Nellis until it’s handed off to the local air traffic controller at TNX, who will clear the plane to land at the air base, again using the callsign “Janet.” Interestingly, however, when this hand-off from Nellis to TNX occurs, the Nellis controller will not issue the Janet a specific frequency for the TNX approach, as is the custom with other destinations. But, if the actual destination is Area 51, something else happens. Once the Janet enters military airspace near Groom Lake, Nellis Center will simply clear the Janet for handoff to something called simply “control.” Nellis center approves a frequency change to the new controller, but doesn’t issue a frequency – with a nudge and a wink, the Nellis Control says in effect “I know where you’re going, and you know that I know where you’re going, and you already have the frequencies you need.”

Now, if you have a scanner, a good antenna, and you know the civilian air traffic frequencies for Groom Lake (I can supply some of them for you if you want), you’ll hear something unusual happen. An airplane (the Janet) will come to life on the Area 51 approach frequencies using a code name like “Foxy,” “Bones,” “Racer,” or “Hawk” – the code name changes every month. The unnamed “control” (Area 51) will clear the plane to land at the “non-existent” air base. An interesting tidbit: until the mid 1990s, the anonymous Groom Lake control tower used the enigmatic name “Dreamland” to identify itself.
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That's wild
 
BCtrippin

BCtrippin

Well-Known Member
It is crazy, and all very true. Great post, very informative.

Area 51 technically "doesnt exist" even though it has been admitted, but there is a much less know bunker in the mountain to the north. I believe its called P4 or S4, and its an even Less know site. Apparently its an experimental aircraft hanger right in the side of the mountain. I always found this kinda weird. If thats the experimental aircraft hanger, WTF is going on down at the actual Area 51 base?



:peace:
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
BCtrippin said:
Your asking me to just accept everything you say as fact and that chem trails do not exist? Well Im not gonna do that. I will keep an open mind. Like I said many times in this thread, I dont know if they do exist or not, But Im not gonna throw everything under the Vapor Trail category and let it go. Im going to keep researching the subject till I am satisfied with my beliefs.
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You are absolutely correct in not accepting anything I say as fact. That's the first principle of critical thinking, don't accept someone's word.

I can't prove that chemtrails don't exist but I generally ascribe to the principle of Occam's Razor. I can't prove Santa Claus or the extraterrestrials don't exist either, but my point is that I have provided quite reasonable explanations backed by science for the phenomena you were questioning.

I'm a skeptic at heart and respect you for being likewise skeptical, but I don't cling to a hypothesis that doesn't have any evidence to support it. So far I haven't seen anyone present anything that demonstrates these can't be normal contrails. I've looked at all of the evidence presented here as well as quite a bit on some of the 'chemtrail' sites and there is nothing I have seen that supports that theory. That's not to say I couldn't be proven wrong in the future, as is the nature of science, but at this junction, I have to accept the most reasonable explanation, that these are normal contrails, nothing more.
 
molasses420

molasses420

Active Member
yes they are chemical trails from the cheaper fuel used in jets, it is very harmful for atmosphere happens all over not just west coast
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
mindphuk said:
And your point is?
Did you skip over the explanation of what is creating the contrails? The physics are identical regardless of the type of engine.
Heat and water vapor is produced by the combustion of fuel in jet, piston, as well as liquid and solid rocket fueled engines. In fact, the more efficient the engine is, the more water vapor is produced. Turbine engines have been becoming more and more efficient with advances in technology, so the amount of water vapor produced by modern aircraft is actually more than those older style piston engines.
Have you ever seen a space shuttle launch? Depending on the conditions, those contrails can last for hours as well and spread just like persistent "chemtrails".
Here's a remnant of a persistent vapor trail from the Space Shuttle Atlantis.


Another (not sure which shuttle mission this was):


Can you answer the question why some naturally formed clouds linger and others dissipate quickly? Since a contrail is merely a cloud of ice particles, it stands to reason that depending on the conditions in the troposphere, that some will persist while others vanish quickly.

Here's a nice view from aboard a 747-451 over Alaska. This photo was taken from an ordinary citizen. The aircraft above is Northwest B747-400 turning right to join the photographer's air route. The one below is a Singapore Airlines B777 on the same route.


Med,
Believe it or not, I'm in full agreement with you when it comes to not trusting what people in the government tell us. There is no doubt in my mind that there is and have been clandestine operations going on, some of which may have been directed against civilians without their consent. My problem with this is that the science doesn't support the claim. Being in the field of science myself, I find these meritless claims very disturbing. The quality of science education in this country is already dismal enough without perpetuating this kind of pseudoscience as fact.

If chemtrails exist, fine, show me some real evidence, not just conjecture and speculation. Let's get some samples and analyze them. The means to do actual scientific inquiry into this phenomena is not out of our reach. I'm sure with the number of 'chemtrail' advocates out there, a group could pool resources and use high altitude weather balloons or charter an airplane to go up and take air samples. Is the commercial aviation industry in on the conspiracy? If not, what type of plane produces chemtrails? Why don't we see pictures of these special aircraft. It's not like high powered telephoto lenses aren't available. Why haven't any general aviation pilots reported anything unusual?

I also have yet to hear any reasonable explanation as to what the purpose and the composition of these chemtrails are. After 40+ years of these things, shouldn't we (or the chemtrail producers) have seen an effect by now? Also, if it is a clandestine operation, why make them so visible and at such high altitude? Any chemical dispersed that high up has a very low chance of reaching the ground. If Skunkworks can design stealth aircraft that eliminates real contrails, don't you think these black ops folks would use the same tech to hide their chemtrails?
You can believe I am drinking the government Kool-Aid if you want, but I would have to disregard too much logic and science for me to believe in chemtrails.
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I read someplace That they were for bringing rain, but I lnow not the chemical make up. It was proffered that it was silicate of aluminum??? I really don't know what caused these clouds, but it sure appears to be airplanes in an otherwise blue sky. Since there is an airplane either ingressing or egressing this city avery minute, why are these standout con/chemtrails, who knows, eh? I sincerely believe the Government Black ops. could care less about the citizens and are only for furthering the goals of the PTB.

BTW in this photo, there are criss=crossing contrails. Does this seem normal when a space launch is scheduled?
 

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mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
I read someplace That they were for bringing rain, but I lnow not the chemical make up. It was proffered that it was silicate of aluminum??? I really don't know what caused these clouds, but it sure appears to be airplanes in an otherwise blue sky. Since there is an airplane either ingressing or egressing this city avery minute, why are these standout con/chemtrails, who knows, eh? I sincerely believe the Government Black ops. could care less about the citizens and are only for furthering the goals of the PTB.

BTW in this photo, there are criss=crossing contrails. Does this seem normal when a space launch is scheduled?
Click to expand...
I've read everything from aluminum, barium and boron to various bacteria but to what end? It would be much easier and much less noticeable to tamper with water supplies then general spraying. Also, if 'chemtrails' are the result of black op experiments, they can't have very good scientists working on the program since the ubiquitous nature of these things eliminates the possibility of a control group. Also, if there was anything dangerous in 'chemtrails' they would be putting everyone at risk from their own families as well as the PTB themselves.

I'm not quite convinced that people involved in black ops for our government are necessarily bad and/or have evil intentions for our own citizens. Sure, they get involved in fucked up things but my guesss is most probably think of themselves as patriots. Of course that doesn't rule out the possibility they use human guinea pigs, but 'chemtrails' are too indiscriminate to be very useful IMO.
 
BCtrippin

BCtrippin

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
I've read everything from aluminum, barium and boron to various bacteria but to what end? It would be much easier and much less noticeable to tamper with water supplies then general spraying. Also, if 'chemtrails' are the result of black op experiments, they can't have very good scientists working on the program since the ubiquitous nature of these things eliminates the possibility of a control group. Also, if there was anything dangerous in 'chemtrails' they would be putting everyone at risk from their own families as well as the PTB themselves.

I'm not quite convinced that people involved in black ops for our government are necessarily bad and/or have evil intentions for our own citizens. Sure, they get involved in fucked up things but my guesss is most probably think of themselves as patriots. Of course that doesn't rule out the possibility they use human guinea pigs, but 'chemtrails' are too indiscriminate to be very useful IMO.
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I understand what your saying. Its just when people say "its easier to tamper with water supplies" I always find that a bit off topic because no one here has claimed any government is trying to dose people with anything harmful. The argument has always been the possibility of weather modification. IMO Geoengineering is something the government would be interested in, and would want to know as much about as possible.

Its not like we are saying the government has a program in place that steadily runs chemtrails for a specific purpose. For all we know they could be testing different things in different locations under different conditions just to learn more.

Not all government testing is going to be approved by the general public, Area 51 is the perfect example. They are working on stuff they dont want the general population or other countries to know about. Just because we dont know everything about something doesnt mean its not happening.



:peace:
 
misshestermoffitt

misshestermoffitt

New Member
People, please, jets left those trails 30 years ago when I was a kid. It's not some conspiracy, it's just the wake the jet leaves behind. Sometimes they dissipate faster because the wind is blowing harder.

OMG, no wonder the rumor is that pot makes people paranoid.........
 
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