Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
if your using bags instead of pots, you can gently press the sides to break up the compact dirt
Changes the Way you Think about Drainage
- Thread starter Beansly
- Start date
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Ditto.
There will be no sitting water if you use pots with drain holes and understand the basics. Sure doesn't belong in Advanced.
UB
Beansly
RIU Bulldog
I think if your putting anything in your pots beside soil, even chunks of foam or "small layer of perlite," then your wasting space for soil for your roots. Your right that proper soil building and solid fundamentals means you don't have to worry about these problems, but this thread wasn't for pro's to gloat about how good their soil is. It's to help the people who are still having problems figuring it out.
You don't have to believe the ICmag POV (which sounds to me like you have more of a bias against icmag than the idea...just because it's from a site you don't like doesn't mean it's wrong), I've seen it with my own eyes. Sometimes when I'd transplant I would notice a very saturated layer of soil above the "drainage layer" that if I squeezed, water would pour out, even though the plant wasn't exhibiting signs of salt build up or over-watering
If it was that simple, there would be no replies to this thread, except for insecure people trying to feel better about themselves by being nonconstructive and mean to people that know less than they do.
And tbf, this is kind of advanced for this site.
Besides, a lot of people are still using a drainage layer and I wanted everyone to know that it's not necessary. How that a waste?
deprave
New Member
exactly Jerry, if you are adding 'drainage' layer at the bottom then you are trying to fix the wrong problem, adding a drainage layer imho is very silly, get better dirt and your problem will go away. I have only seen amateurs and/or people whos methods are not based in science advocate for a drainage layer(I.E. Jorge Cervantes) while the real scientist, the botanist and horticulture professionals preach against it. It is important to keep an open mind and understand everyone's opinion on a given issue but I think on this topic the coffin is nearly nailed shut.
So while it may seem to the above poster that the veterans like UB are being arrogant on this topic, I think the reality of this topic is that its a closed case here and its not arrogance but frustration that this myth is still being perpetuated when its been debated time and time again and the conclusion is always that 'drainage layers' or 'rocks' at the bottom of your pot does more harm then good.
So while it may seem to the above poster that the veterans like UB are being arrogant on this topic, I think the reality of this topic is that its a closed case here and its not arrogance but frustration that this myth is still being perpetuated when its been debated time and time again and the conclusion is always that 'drainage layers' or 'rocks' at the bottom of your pot does more harm then good.
Beansly
RIU Bulldog
Topics on forums are brought up over and over again. It's an inherent trait of online boards. If that disturbing or new to you, maybe you shouldn't be on one.
And if it was a closed case, it wouldn't have been debated again.
there are ways to tell someone they should have known something with tact. Sayings things like "gimmick", and "that's just me" give off a know-it-all attitude. I like UB and I think he's smart, but I'm just tired of the rudeness and arrogance on-line. You shoulda seen the response by collective gardener (in 20000 watt grow blah blah blah thread) to a troll who burst in after reading only the first page (of like 90 or something) and assumed he knew it. Completely wrong and totally rude about it. True dumbass. Nobody would have been mad at collective gardener for going off on this guy, but instead he apologized to the troll for being inaccurate, and gave him a clear-headed response. It inspired me to stop being rude to people that knew lee than me even if they attack me. Snide quips, and clever remarks are nonconstructive and don't help anyone.
It's different when your trying to be funny. I'm not suggesting that nobody joke ever. It's just stupid to dismiss a topic and everyone talking about it because you already know. If anything you should be giving an unbiased argument as to why you disagree.
Impassioned, fact-based, unbiased arguments do more to sway peoples opinions than off the cuff thoughts.
Idk, I'm ranting now. See what you bastards do to me? lol
growinhound
Member
hey beansly just curious,does your avatar represent you some how? partyin ol dude. dont get pizzed .keep up the good work
Beansly
RIU Bulldog
I'm just trying to help people grow better pot man. I hate negative people.
Yeah in a way my avatar does represent me. I'm like that tho. I wouldn't have picked it if it didn't.
I'm only 28 but I've got an "old soul" as they say.
I like to keep things old school, and I don't like new trends, idk,
but yeah just a hard partying, stumblin' OG (old guy).
Thanks for good words man, I appreciate it.
Beanz
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
You obviously haven't put down a layer of gravel at the bottom of a pot and then inspected the root zone after all is said and done. Roots will spin out in that medium, which is filled with organics and other particulates from above.
Has little to do with "how good the soil is". Has to do with basic plant culture.
Then you done screwed up having very poor root health and root tissue bulk.
No, a drainage layer is not necessary. In fact, it's a bit silly. Doesn't mean it will do the plant any harm however.
IC Mag is full of noobs who have not yet figured it out. Commercial growers do not put any kind of crap in the bottom of their pots as they know that a well grown plant will wick off excess moisture, water. If that's what this person who seems to have rediscovered the wheel is espousing, then all I have to say is "duh".
Like I said....... for the sake of convenience, I use chunks of foam to plug the 6 drain holes found in commercial black pots which is all I use. It has nothing to do with drainage layers.
UB
Jerry Garcia
Well-Known Member
I still don't understand what causes this problem. How does water come to just sit at the bottom layer of a pot?
You're trying to compensate for excess moisture (because you overwatered) rather than just watering properly.
And frankly your soil and containers should be porous enough that once it has absorbed all it can the rest will drain out the bottom. A "perched water table" should never happen in a container with quality soil and amendments. Why do you think runoff exists?
You're trying to compensate for excess moisture (because you overwatered) rather than just watering properly.
And frankly your soil and containers should be porous enough that once it has absorbed all it can the rest will drain out the bottom. A "perched water table" should never happen in a container with quality soil and amendments. Why do you think runoff exists?
cowboylogic
Well-Known Member
Ya advanced would be growing without drain holes altogether...........
Wolverine97
Well-Known Member
You know, for a Buckeye you're not so bad...
its called "mudding up" and can occur in hydro or soil. i use hydroton at the bottom and get FAT healthy white roots, in soil.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Hydroton is fine. I just potted up an avocado tree yesterday received by FedX. "My secret" potting technique was using a homemade, very rich, composty soil with alfalfa, local horse manure compost, perlite, sand, peat, etc. and at least a 1" layer of perlite in the bottom of the pot. Oh yes, and the 5 gal. pot was scrubbed well and then coated with Griffin's Spin-out paint to further increase root efficiency.
UB
i had problem with SEVERAL types of plants, tomatoes, peppers, strawberries, okra, berries, etc..
all drainage and watering problems were fixed with something at the bottom.
perlite, hydroton, all works the same. rocks would even work.
naturally in the EARTH it is not just dirt 100 feet down....
all drainage and watering problems were fixed with something at the bottom.
perlite, hydroton, all works the same. rocks would even work.
naturally in the EARTH it is not just dirt 100 feet down....
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Okra in pots? Wow, that's a first. FWIW, it likes heat and not much water.
fatality
Well-Known Member
i concur , my buddy told me to use rocks at the bottom of my buckets, but something inside me wasn't allowing it, i guess it could have been god now that i think of it because he didnt want want me to hinder his creations as my atheist friend was doing...
beanz,
good luck convincing people... From some of the responses here you can see that people have beliefs that they will hold on to no matter what.
Just because someone has healthy plants doesn't mean there is no room for improvement. Yet many will site there great growth as proof that there argument is right. You are dealing with true believers not scientists...
good luck convincing people... From some of the responses here you can see that people have beliefs that they will hold on to no matter what.
Just because someone has healthy plants doesn't mean there is no room for improvement. Yet many will site there great growth as proof that there argument is right. You are dealing with true believers not scientists...
@Beansly, that was an interesting read, thank you.
Ignore the noise (sadly, not only from the ignorant).
I've seen the PWT myself, and it did worry me (but my plants did not seem to mind it).
I use tall pots wich are narrower at the bottom, I wonder how that affects the PWT. After reading this, I decided to drill a lot of tiny holes in my pots - why not, can't hurt.
Ignore the noise (sadly, not only from the ignorant).
I've seen the PWT myself, and it did worry me (but my plants did not seem to mind it).
I use tall pots wich are narrower at the bottom, I wonder how that affects the PWT. After reading this, I decided to drill a lot of tiny holes in my pots - why not, can't hurt.
DrFever
New Member
one would think having narrower pots on bottom will only heighten your chances of having root problems if you like tall pots why not go to 20 litre pails and drill holes on bottom