Astir Grow Led Panel Project...

MrFlux · Jan 9, 2014

The formula that I use is

LER = 683.0*sum(cie * spectrum) / sum(spectrum)

with cie an array with CIE 1931 data and spectrum the array with spectral data; summation is over all wavelengths.

Richelsdorfite · Jan 9, 2014

MrFlux said:
The formula that I use is

LER = 683.0*sum(cie * spectrum) / sum(spectrum)

with cie an array with CIE 1931 data and spectrum the array with spectral data; summation is over all wavelengths.

I apply the same equation so the problem come from our lumens to watt computation.

Richelsdorfite · Jan 9, 2014

To find radiant flux (Watt) from lumen, I use this equation:

lumens = 683.002 x Sum ( Vi x Pi x di)

With :
Vi = Photopic CIE 1931
Pi = Relative radiant spectrum
di = delta nanometer

I first normalized the Relative Radiant Power between 300 and 800 nm

I compute the area under this curve for 1 nm delta, register these values in an array. PxArea
I multiply each point of the RRP curve by the photopic value at the wavelength used and then compute the array under the curve for 1 nm delta and register the value in an array VxPxArea
Then I sum all the PxArea from 300 to 800 nm = SumOfPxArea
Same for the VxPxArea = SumOfVxPxArea
Then I can compute the Radiant Power (Watt) using : RadiantFluxWatt = LuminousFluxLumens * SumOfPxArea / (683.002 * SumOfVxPxArea)

MrFlux · Jan 9, 2014

I have made a spreadsheet using your data and your way of calculating. The LER is still 204.... Perhaps the CIE data is different? You can check everything in the attached spreadsheet.

guod · Jan 9, 2014

LER verification
View attachment 2957235

ups!

Chronikool · Jan 9, 2014

Hey Guod....cant PM you. Where do i find that spectrum site where you can input your LED types?

guod · Jan 9, 2014

^^-^^

http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/

some hints for japuse
https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/547085-diy-modular-led-light-14.html#post8738861
https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/547085-diy-modular-led-light-14.html#post8739598
https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/547085-diy-modular-led-light-15.html#post8740329

-------------------------------------or
http://www.ledspecs.com/

MrFlux · Jan 9, 2014

I have checked the CIE data that I am using and it turns out it is the wrong set. Instead of CIE 1931 data, I've been using the Sharp-Stockman 2005 data :wall:

This picture from Wikipedia shows the differences:

The solid black curve is the correct one and I've been using the dotted black curve. The difference looks minimal but becomes pronounced for blue and red emitters. Especially for XP-E2 blue the efficiency was totally underestimated, it now looks to be about 65% efficient. For whites the efficiency becomes a bit higher. Most of the graphs that I have posted in the various threads would be affected somewhat but remain qualitatively the same.

Richelsdorfite glad you showed up here...

The updated set of all emitters:

Code:

XML2 2600K
Power in        : 1.99 W (2.85V x 0.70A)
Luminous flux   : 250 lumen
Efficacy        : 125 lumen/W
LER             : 338 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 37.1%
Radiant flux    : 0.74 W
Photon flux     : 3.63 umol/s (1.82 per Watt)
Blue            : 7% power, 6% flux
Red             : 26% power, 28% flux


XML2 3700K
Power in        : 1.99 W (2.85V x 0.70A)
Luminous flux   : 296 lumen
Efficacy        : 148 lumen/W
LER             : 329 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 45.1%
Radiant flux    : 0.90 W
Photon flux     : 4.11 umol/s (2.06 per Watt)
Blue            : 24% power, 20% flux
Red             : 13% power, 16% flux


XML2 5000K
Power in        : 1.99 W (2.85V x 0.70A)
Luminous flux   : 341 lumen
Efficacy        : 171 lumen/W
LER             : 319 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 53.5%
Radiant flux    : 1.07 W
Photon flux     : 4.76 umol/s (2.39 per Watt)
Blue            : 30% power, 25% flux
Red             : 10% power, 12% flux


Vero 3000K, 97 CRI
Power in        : 9.34 W (26.70V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux   : 755 lumen
Efficacy        : 81 lumen/W
LER             : 273 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 29.6%
Radiant flux    : 2.76 W
Photon flux     : 13.75 umol/s (1.47 per Watt)
Blue            : 9% power, 7% flux
Red             : 30% power, 33% flux


Vero 3000K
Power in        : 9.34 W (26.70V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux   : 1120 lumen
Efficacy        : 120 lumen/W
LER             : 320 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 37.4%
Radiant flux    : 3.50 W
Photon flux     : 17.28 umol/s (1.85 per Watt)
Blue            : 8% power, 6% flux
Red             : 27% power, 30% flux


Vero 4000K
Power in        : 9.34 W (26.70V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux   : 1180 lumen
Efficacy        : 126 lumen/W
LER             : 325 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 38.8%
Radiant flux    : 3.63 W
Photon flux     : 17.47 umol/s (1.87 per Watt)
Blue            : 13% power, 10% flux
Red             : 23% power, 25% flux


Vero 5000K
Power in        : 9.34 W (26.70V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux   : 1305 lumen
Efficacy        : 140 lumen/W
LER             : 337 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 41.5%
Radiant flux    : 3.88 W
Photon flux     : 17.88 umol/s (1.91 per Watt)
Blue            : 22% power, 18% flux
Red             : 15% power, 17% flux


XBD 2600K
Power in        : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux   : 114 lumen
Efficacy        : 114 lumen/W
LER             : 325 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 35.1%
Radiant flux    : 0.35 W
Photon flux     : 1.70 umol/s (1.71 per Watt)
Blue            : 11% power, 9% flux
Red             : 25% power, 27% flux


XBD 3700K
Power in        : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux   : 130 lumen
Efficacy        : 130 lumen/W
LER             : 327 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 39.8%
Radiant flux    : 0.40 W
Photon flux     : 1.88 umol/s (1.89 per Watt)
Blue            : 17% power, 14% flux
Red             : 19% power, 22% flux


XBD 5000K
Power in        : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux   : 139 lumen
Efficacy        : 139 lumen/W
LER             : 322 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 43.3%
Radiant flux    : 0.43 W
Photon flux     : 1.94 umol/s (1.94 per Watt)
Blue            : 28% power, 23% flux
Red             : 11% power, 13% flux


XTE 2200K
Power in        : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux   : 123 lumen
Efficacy        : 123 lumen/W
LER             : 309 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 39.8%
Radiant flux    : 0.40 W
Photon flux     : 1.99 umol/s (2.00 per Watt)
Blue            : 7% power, 5% flux
Red             : 31% power, 33% flux


XTE 2600K 85-CRI
Power in        : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux   : 100 lumen
Efficacy        : 100 lumen/W
LER             : 324 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 31.0%
Radiant flux    : 0.31 W
Photon flux     : 1.51 umol/s (1.52 per Watt)
Blue            : 9% power, 7% flux
Red             : 26% power, 29% flux


XTE 3700K
Power in        : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux   : 130 lumen
Efficacy        : 130 lumen/W
LER             : 324 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 40.2%
Radiant flux    : 0.40 W
Photon flux     : 1.91 umol/s (1.91 per Watt)
Blue            : 17% power, 14% flux
Red             : 21% power, 24% flux


XTE 5000K
Power in        : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux   : 160 lumen
Efficacy        : 160 lumen/W
LER             : 313 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 51.3%
Radiant flux    : 0.51 W
Photon flux     : 2.29 umol/s (2.30 per Watt)
Blue            : 31% power, 26% flux
Red             : 11% power, 13% flux


XTE Royal Blue
Power in        : 1.08 W (3.10V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux   : 17.9 lumen
Efficacy        : 16 lumen/W
LER             : 33 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 50.6%
Radiant flux    : 0.55 W
Photon flux     : 2.07 umol/s (1.91 per Watt)
Blue            : 97% power, 97% flux
Red             : 0% power, 0% flux


XPE red
Power in        : 0.77 W (2.20V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux   : 73.9 lumen
Efficacy        : 96 lumen/W
LER             : 180 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 53.3%
Radiant flux    : 0.41 W
Photon flux     : 2.16 umol/s (2.81 per Watt)
Blue            : 0% power, 0% flux
Red             : 88% power, 89% flux


CXA 3000K, 93 CRI
Power in        : 3.76 W (9.40V x 0.40A)
Luminous flux   : 317 lumen
Efficacy        : 84 lumen/W
LER             : 276 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 30.5%
Radiant flux    : 1.15 W
Photon flux     : 5.64 umol/s (1.50 per Watt)
Blue            : 12% power, 9% flux
Red             : 26% power, 29% flux


CXA 3000K
Power in        : 3.76 W (9.40V x 0.40A)
Luminous flux   : 423 lumen
Efficacy        : 112 lumen/W
LER             : 328 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 34.3%
Radiant flux    : 1.29 W
Photon flux     : 6.29 umol/s (1.67 per Watt)
Blue            : 10% power, 8% flux
Red             : 24% power, 27% flux


CXA 4000K
Power in        : 3.76 W (9.40V x 0.40A)
Luminous flux   : 490 lumen
Efficacy        : 130 lumen/W
LER             : 323 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 40.4%
Radiant flux    : 1.52 W
Photon flux     : 7.11 umol/s (1.89 per Watt)
Blue            : 19% power, 16% flux
Red             : 17% power, 20% flux


CXA 5000K
Power in        : 3.76 W (9.40V x 0.40A)
Luminous flux   : 527 lumen
Efficacy        : 140 lumen/W
LER             : 324 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 43.3%
Radiant flux    : 1.63 W
Photon flux     : 7.50 umol/s (2.00 per Watt)
Blue            : 24% power, 20% flux
Red             : 14% power, 17% flux


Oslon SSL 2700K
Power in        : 1.12 W (3.20V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux   : 82 lumen
Efficacy        : 73 lumen/W
LER             : 271 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 27.0%
Radiant flux    : 0.30 W
Photon flux     : 1.53 umol/s (1.36 per Watt)
Blue            : 6% power, 5% flux
Red             : 33% power, 36% flux


XP-E2 Blue
Power in        : 1.01 W (2.90V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux   : 45.7 lumen
Efficacy        : 45 lumen/W
LER             : 69 lumen/W
Radiometric eff.: 64.8%
Radiant flux    : 0.66 W
Photon flux     : 2.57 umol/s (2.54 per Watt)
Blue            : 84% power, 84% flux
Red             : 0% power, 0% flux

SupraSPL · Jan 9, 2014

Hey that is great news Mr Flux, the whites are better than we thought. Updating my spreadsheets tonight. Cleared out my inbox too sry I missed your msg.

SupraSPL · Jan 10, 2014

Richelsdorfite said:
A made some computation with DIY software.
I use :
- 4 LR-CP7P drive 700mA => 108.5 lm each Pc=1.73W
- 12 XTE White 2200K CCT drive 700mA => 167 lm each Pc=2.13W
- 2 XTE White 2600K-3700K drive 700mA => 203 lm each Pc=2.13W
-6 XTE White 5000K-8000K drive 700mA => 217 lm each Pc=2.13W

Compute the radiometric power from datasheet curve and :

Radiant flux = 13 W and 62.3 umol/s
Total Pc = 49.5W + Driver (93%) + Power Supply (90%) = 60W

Efficiency = 21.66%

I like the way you are thinking. I believe that the best way to judge a lamp is by its overall radiometric efficiency and then of course looking at the SPD to make sure it is appropriate.

Normally I don't include driver losses in the initial evaluation of a lamp because drivers can be swapped out and because competing light technologies have ballast losses that are similar to driver losses. Many AC-DC constant current drivers achieve an overall efficiency of 88%, which is similar to high quality electronic ballasts used for fluoro tubes and digital ballasts used for HPS.

For the calculation above, what Tj are you using? I noticed that your Hans panels calculation was using a Tj 50c. Unless I am misunderstanding the design, I was very skeptical about its cooling ability when I evaluated it.

I use the XTE 3000K R3 bin but nowadays I recommend DIYers to use XML2 3000K T5 bin which is about 25% more efficient. The bigger WW COBs are also on par with the XML2 so unfortunately it seems like the XTE became outdated before I even had a chance to install all of mine lol.

Richelsdorfite · Jan 10, 2014

For all the calculation I use Tj=50°C

Richelsdorfite · Jan 10, 2014

XBD 2600K
Power in : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux : 114 lumen
Efficacy : 114 lumen/W
LER : 325 lumen/W > 324.09
Radiometric eff.: 35.1%
Radiant flux : 0.35 W > 0.3517 W
Photon flux : 1.70 umol/s (1.71 per Watt) > 1.71 umol/s
Blue : 11% power, 9% flux
Red : 25% power, 27% flux

XBD 3700K
Power in : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux : 130 lumen
Efficacy : 130 lumen/W
LER : 327 lumen/W > 320.3
Radiometric eff.: 39.8%
Radiant flux : 0.40 W > 0.406 W
Photon flux : 1.88 umol/s (1.89 per Watt) > 1.89 umol/s
Blue : 17% power, 14% flux
Red : 19% power, 22% flux

XBD 5000K
Power in : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux : 139 lumen
Efficacy : 139 lumen/W
LER : 322 lumen/W > 320.38
Radiometric eff.: 43.3%
Radiant flux : 0.43 W > 0.434 W
Photon flux : 1.94 umol/s (1.94 per Watt) > 1.95 umol/s
Blue : 28% power, 23% flux
Red : 11% power, 13% flux

XTE 2200K
Power in : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux : 123 lumen
Efficacy : 123 lumen/W
LER : 309 lumen/W > 361
Radiometric eff.: 39.8%
Radiant flux : 0.40 W > 0.34 W
Photon flux : 1.99 umol/s (2.00 per Watt) > 1.67 umol/s
Blue : 7% power, 5% flux
Red : 31% power, 33% flux

XTE 2600K 85-CRI
Power in : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux : 100 lumen
Efficacy : 100 lumen/W
LER : 324 lumen/W > 0.365
Radiometric eff.: 31.0%
Radiant flux : 0.31 W > 0.274 W
Photon flux : 1.51 umol/s (1.52 per Watt) > 1.31 umol/s
Blue : 9% power, 7% flux
Red : 26% power, 29% flux

XTE 3700K
Power in : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux : 130 lumen
Efficacy : 130 lumen/W
LER : 324 lumen/W > 365
Radiometric eff.: 40.2%
Radiant flux : 0.40 W > 0.356 W
Photon flux : 1.91 umol/s (1.91 per Watt) > 1.71 umol/s
Blue : 17% power, 14% flux
Red : 21% power, 24% flux

XTE 5000K
Power in : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux : 160 lumen
Efficacy : 160 lumen/W
LER : 313 lumen/W > 322
Radiometric eff.: 51.3%
Radiant flux : 0.51 W > 0.497 W
Photon flux : 2.29 umol/s (2.30 per Watt) > 2.19 umol/s
Blue : 31% power, 26% flux
Red : 11% power, 13% flux

XTE Royal Blue (Peak 448 nm)
Power in : 1.08 W (3.10V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux : 17.9 lumen > 17.71
Efficacy : 16 lumen/W
LER : 33 lumen/W > 32.19
Radiometric eff.: 50.6%
Radiant flux : 0.55 W
Photon flux : 2.07 umol/s (1.91 per Watt) > 2.08 umol/s
Blue : 97% power, 97% flux
Red : 0% power, 0% flux

XPE red
Power in : 0.77 W (2.20V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux : 73.9 lumen
Efficacy : 96 lumen/W
LER : 180 lumen/W > 179.28
Radiometric eff.: 53.3%
Radiant flux : 0.41 W > 0.4122 W
Photon flux : 2.16 umol/s (2.81 per Watt) > 2.17 umol/s
Blue : 0% power, 0% flux
Red : 88% power, 89% flux

Richelsdorfite · Jan 10, 2014

I think we don't use exactly the same charts for the XTE White 2200 K to 3700 K

Richelsdorfite · Jan 10, 2014

For the others it's good :-P

SupraSPL · Jan 10, 2014

Yes you must be using different graphs. Those are very significant differences hopefully we can sort out the cause. Can you link us to the ones you are using?

The Cree Spec sheet for the XTE royal blue provides radiometric data. At .35A 50C it is 60.7% efficient (The Q04 top bin).

I am shocked that the XPE2 blue (470nm?) can reach those levels of efficiency. That is very helpful because we can spread out our blue peak.

SupraSPL · Jan 10, 2014

I would love to see the results of Metal Halide VS CMH vs HPS in terms of LER and radiometric efficiency. I have not seen any solid data on that. The only number I have had to go by is that the big HPS are 40% efficient (PAR watts) and that does not include ballast losses.

These technologies drop fast from 100% to 65% in terms of output but they continue to consume the same amount of power. That is one of the major advantages of LED of course. I use my HPS bulbs until they burn out which can take 18-24 months of nonstop use in some cases.

Standard HPS - 2200K - 140000 initial lumens - 1000W

Ceramic Metal Halide - 4000K - 34800 initial lumens - 400W

Metal Halide - 4000K - 36000 initial lumens - 400W

Richelsdorfite · Jan 10, 2014

Find me a good MH & HPS Relative Radiant Power Chart and I will do the job

SupraSPL · Jan 10, 2014

Thanks! I edited the charts into the previous post. Hopefully they are usable.

Richelsdorfite · Jan 10, 2014

My XTE White charts were false ! So with the good values :

XTE 2200K
Power in : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux : 123 lumen
Efficacy : 123 lumen/W
LER : 309 lumen/W > 305
Radiometric eff.: 39.8%
Radiant flux : 0.40 W > 0.403 W
Photon flux : 1.99 umol/s (2.00 per Watt) > 2.02 umol/s
Blue : 7% power, 5% flux
Red : 31% power, 33% flux

XTE 2600K 85-CRI
Power in : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux : 100 lumen
Efficacy : 100 lumen/W
LER : 324 lumen/W > 323
Radiometric eff.: 31.0%
Radiant flux : 0.31 W > 0.309 W
Photon flux : 1.51 umol/s (1.52 per Watt) > 1.52 umol/s
Blue : 9% power, 7% flux
Red : 26% power, 29% flux

XTE 3700K
Power in : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux : 130 lumen
Efficacy : 130 lumen/W
LER : 324 lumen/W > 322
Radiometric eff.: 40.2%
Radiant flux : 0.40 W > 0.403 W
Photon flux : 1.91 umol/s (1.91 per Watt) > 1.97 umol/s
Blue : 17% power, 14% flux
Red : 21% power, 24% flux

XTE 5000K
Power in : 1.00 W (2.85V x 0.35A)
Luminous flux : 160 lumen
Efficacy : 160 lumen/W
LER : 313 lumen/W > 313
Radiometric eff.: 51.3%
Radiant flux : 0.51 W > 0.511 W
Photon flux : 2.29 umol/s (2.30 per Watt) > 2.29 umol/s
Blue : 31% power, 26% flux
Red : 11% power, 13% flux

So I will recompute all the Leds design made with Cree XTE from my previous posts.

Sorry !

Richelsdorfite · Jan 10, 2014

SupraSPL said:
I would love to see the results of Metal Halide VS CMH vs HPS in terms of LER and radiometric efficiency. I have not seen any solid data on that. The only number I have had to go by is that the big HPS are 40% efficient (PAR watts) and that does not include ballast losses.

These technologies drop fast from 100% to 65% in terms of output but they continue to consume the same amount of power. That is one of the major advantages of LED of course. I use my HPS bulbs until they burn out which can take 18-24 months of nonstop use in some cases.

View attachment 2958004 Standard HPS - 2200K - 140000 initial lumens - 1000W

View attachment 2958005 Ceramic Metal Halide - 4000K - 34800 initial lumens - 400W

View attachment 2958018Metal Halide - 4000K - 36000 initial lumens - 400W

I will compute the Radiant Flux, umol/s, LER this evening.

As Photopic Curve min = 360 nm and max = 830 nm these calculations will not be as accurate as I want

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