Astir Grow Led Panel Project...
- Thread starter stardustsailor
- Start date
thestickyickyicky
Member
I've not etched any PCB's since uni a few years back, thinking it may be time to relearn how 
.
Stardustsailor... what are your current thoughts on 660nm/far red LED's? I read a little about pr/pfr and its quite confusing... are they as damaging as first thought?
.Stardustsailor... what are your current thoughts on 660nm/far red LED's? I read a little about pr/pfr and its quite confusing... are they as damaging as first thought?
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Well ,my opinion ,always ...
While vegging ( aka 'protein production phase'
) :
Try to avoid using much power of either / both of those (Deep/cherry/hyper reds 640- 670 nm & Far red 700-750 nm )
Far red radiation will cause uncontrollable stretching.
(specially if any white leds are used along ..~40% green wls of white leds + Far Red = heavy Shade Avoidance Syndrome effects )
Hyper Red radiation will favor main root elongation.
( not actually needed in indoor artificial growing ,no need for the plant to 'search deeper' for water )
Hyper red radiation will favor also carbonhydrate biosynthesis.
(Not needed exclusively in vegging .
If in excess power , Hyper reds will form a type of canopy with few,thick -due to starch stored/photosaturation/high power PS system A in action - and small leaves .
Not good.)
Amber/Red leds 600-640 nm,blue leds 440-470 nm ,CW 6000K & NW 5000 can provide a superb 'vegging' spectra if combined wisely.
While mid/late flowering ...(after -at least-the two first weeks of flowering )...
Hyper reds become a 'must ' ,at this case ...
At least if dense & non-leafy buds are what is most wanted...
There's no need for Far red leds ....
Instead you can utilise some WW 2700 K of high CRI ( Caution: SOME .. )
Lot's of green-yellow -amber radiation will aid to achieve good to massive yields* .
( those wls activate accessory pigments which protect from photo inhibition/saturation caused by lots of hyper red leds-so that the 'show will go on' for 12 hours ...,
Do provide some usefull to flowering (reproductive mechanism ) phyto-hormonic action ,
as also do provide the needed photon energy to the deeper parts of both canopy and individual leaves .
I like using NW 5000K & WW 3000K white leds ,to supply those wls ...
A bit (just a tiny bit ) of blue/violet/UV radiation will strongly enhance 'crop quality'.
( ^^^^^^^ : If in excess those wls ,in flowering ,will impact yield ,most probably .
Airy ,elongated ,leafy buds ..But way resinous ...)
Hope I helped ,a tad ....
[video=youtube;982In2bofZs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=982In2bofZs[/video]
While vegging ( aka 'protein production phase'
) :Try to avoid using much power of either / both of those (Deep/cherry/hyper reds 640- 670 nm & Far red 700-750 nm )
Far red radiation will cause uncontrollable stretching.
(specially if any white leds are used along ..~40% green wls of white leds + Far Red = heavy Shade Avoidance Syndrome effects )
Hyper Red radiation will favor main root elongation.
( not actually needed in indoor artificial growing ,no need for the plant to 'search deeper' for water )
Hyper red radiation will favor also carbonhydrate biosynthesis.
(Not needed exclusively in vegging .
If in excess power , Hyper reds will form a type of canopy with few,thick -due to starch stored/photosaturation/high power PS system A in action - and small leaves .
Not good.)
Amber/Red leds 600-640 nm,blue leds 440-470 nm ,CW 6000K & NW 5000 can provide a superb 'vegging' spectra if combined wisely.
While mid/late flowering ...(after -at least-the two first weeks of flowering )...
Hyper reds become a 'must ' ,at this case ...
At least if dense & non-leafy buds are what is most wanted...
There's no need for Far red leds ....
Instead you can utilise some WW 2700 K of high CRI ( Caution: SOME .. )
Lot's of green-yellow -amber radiation will aid to achieve good to massive yields* .
( those wls activate accessory pigments which protect from photo inhibition/saturation caused by lots of hyper red leds-so that the 'show will go on' for 12 hours ...,
Do provide some usefull to flowering (reproductive mechanism ) phyto-hormonic action ,
as also do provide the needed photon energy to the deeper parts of both canopy and individual leaves .
.....
I like using NW 5000K & WW 3000K white leds ,to supply those wls ...
A bit (just a tiny bit ) of blue/violet/UV radiation will strongly enhance 'crop quality'.
( ^^^^^^^ : If in excess those wls ,in flowering ,will impact yield ,most probably .
Airy ,elongated ,leafy buds ..But way resinous ...)
Hope I helped ,a tad ....
[video=youtube;982In2bofZs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=982In2bofZs[/video]
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Personally I'm 'withdrawing' back to a simpler design...
Back to the familiar Astir panels .....
Same spectra for both vegging and flowering ....
1) 640-650 nm red leds ...
It's not the 'amber red' (620-630 nm ),so beloved to the ChB...
It's not the 'deep red' (660-670 nm ),so beloved to the ChA...
It kinda covers both ...
And makes no 'trouble' while vegging ...
While still providing superb flowers ...
2) WW 3000K ,75-80 CRI leds ....
My ....solid state tiny HPS-like friends ....
3) NW 5000K ,75-80 CRI leds ....
My ....solid state tiny MH-like friends ....
( For my needs ) Those three types of leds ,do the job ,as I wish it to be done ...
And that's more than enough ....
Back to the familiar Astir panels .....
Same spectra for both vegging and flowering ....
1) 640-650 nm red leds ...
It's not the 'amber red' (620-630 nm ),so beloved to the ChB...
It's not the 'deep red' (660-670 nm ),so beloved to the ChA...
It kinda covers both ...
And makes no 'trouble' while vegging ...
While still providing superb flowers ...
2) WW 3000K ,75-80 CRI leds ....
My ....solid state tiny HPS-like friends ....
3) NW 5000K ,75-80 CRI leds ....
My ....solid state tiny MH-like friends ....
( For my needs ) Those three types of leds ,do the job ,as I wish it to be done ...
And that's more than enough ....
Positivity
Well-Known Member
Yah, I agree with all of that. Nice summary of the state of led spectrum.
My current grow follows that color roadmap quite closely and the results are as good or better than any other light of similar wattage that I've used. Only problem was too much far red from my 740nm leds causing major stretch. I like the idea of just a few high cri ww to take care of that in a more balanced fashion.
My current grow follows that color roadmap quite closely and the results are as good or better than any other light of similar wattage that I've used. Only problem was too much far red from my 740nm leds causing major stretch. I like the idea of just a few high cri ww to take care of that in a more balanced fashion.
thestickyickyicky
Member
Thank you stardustsailor for your input 
and nice tune, sounds like a funky chiptune from an app crack lol. I suppose i'll start playing on http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/ and see what I can come up with in regards to what quantities of lights I might try!
and nice tune, sounds like a funky chiptune from an app crack lol. I suppose i'll start playing on http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/ and see what I can come up with in regards to what quantities of lights I might try!
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
nice tune, sounds like a funky chiptune from an app crack...
LOL...Bad Style...
But it makes people wanna seriously vibrate the dancefloor ....
LOL...Bad Style...
But it makes people wanna seriously vibrate the dancefloor ....
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
As I understand it, equal number of 3000K + 5000K= 4000K, more or less. Yes 3000K is less efficient.
If ~80 CRI 4000K engines can be located , then DIY should be simplified.
Say ~80% 4000K with 10% @ 3000K & 5000K, each on separate o/o switches to be employed as needed
Sailor?
If ~80 CRI 4000K engines can be located , then DIY should be simplified.
Say ~80% 4000K with 10% @ 3000K & 5000K, each on separate o/o switches to be employed as needed
Sailor?
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
WW die: Usually at ~455 nm
NW die: Usually at ~445 nm
Here for more ...
As for the reds 640-650 nm ..
http://www.led1.de/shop/lng/en/winger-wepdr1-s1-power-led-star-deep-red-650nm-1w-25lm.html
http://hkled.en.alibaba.com/product/497292485-200607920/_font_b_RED_b_font_font_b_LED_b_font_font_b_640nm_b_font_.html
thestickyickyicky
Member
Hi. I'm planning my first LED panel and I would like to hear some input from others if you don't mind.
I was going to use two of these drivers:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Constant-Current-Driver-for-14-18pcs-3W-High-Power-LED-AC85-265V-IP66-Waterproof-/321225072695?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aca81a037
By my calculations they should be able to drive 42 LEDs without problems. My plan is to have half of them for the vegetation state and then turn on both for the flowering. The LEDs I have selected for the vegetation part is:
12X 620-630nm
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10002098/1151300-osram-lr-w5am-3w-620-630nm-70-80lm-red-led-emitter
7X 460-465nm
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10001894/1136400-osram-3w-30-50lm-blue-led-emitter-with-16mm-base
2X 6000-6500K
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10001896/1136402-osram-3w-6000-6500k-160-180lm-white-led-emitter-on
And for the flowering add-on:
17X Either 660-670nm or 650-660nm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Free-Shipping-20PCS-LED-3W-Red-660-670NM-Stimulation-Promotion-Plant-Growth-/261342146223?pt=US_Lighting_Parts_and_Accessories&hash=item3cd934aeaf
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-3W-RED-80lm-650nm-660nm-LED-Plant-Glow-Light-/321088886684?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac263979c
4X 3000-3500K
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10001893/1136401-osram-3w-3000-3500k-160lm-warm-yellow-led-emitter
I would attach them to a plate of aluminium, maybe 3 or 4mm thick. Hopefully it would be enough to cool the LEDs.
The idea to have a separate flowering panel is to hopefully have a more compact/short/bushy plant while still having good flowers in the end.
I was going to use two of these drivers:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Constant-Current-Driver-for-14-18pcs-3W-High-Power-LED-AC85-265V-IP66-Waterproof-/321225072695?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aca81a037
By my calculations they should be able to drive 42 LEDs without problems. My plan is to have half of them for the vegetation state and then turn on both for the flowering. The LEDs I have selected for the vegetation part is:
12X 620-630nm
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10002098/1151300-osram-lr-w5am-3w-620-630nm-70-80lm-red-led-emitter
7X 460-465nm
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10001894/1136400-osram-3w-30-50lm-blue-led-emitter-with-16mm-base
2X 6000-6500K
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10001896/1136402-osram-3w-6000-6500k-160-180lm-white-led-emitter-on
And for the flowering add-on:
17X Either 660-670nm or 650-660nm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Free-Shipping-20PCS-LED-3W-Red-660-670NM-Stimulation-Promotion-Plant-Growth-/261342146223?pt=US_Lighting_Parts_and_Accessories&hash=item3cd934aeaf
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-3W-RED-80lm-650nm-660nm-LED-Plant-Glow-Light-/321088886684?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac263979c
4X 3000-3500K
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10001893/1136401-osram-3w-3000-3500k-160lm-warm-yellow-led-emitter
I would attach them to a plate of aluminium, maybe 3 or 4mm thick. Hopefully it would be enough to cool the LEDs.
The idea to have a separate flowering panel is to hopefully have a more compact/short/bushy plant while still having good flowers in the end.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Replace the 660-670 with 640-650 and you should have a very high spectrally balanced panel
I don't feel comfortable purchasing from Alibaba/Aliexpress, and the german shop is a lot more expensive compared to the other options.
I'm trying to keep the cost down as this will be my first time working with a soldering iron, and I'm not completely confident in my ability to succeed, at this point.
But as I understand it, the main reason to go with 640nm is that it won't disturb the plant in the vegetation state.
This wouldn't be a problem in my case, as the 650-670 would be for flowering only.
I'm sorry if all this should have been in a different thread.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Due to the facts that :
1) Leds keep evolving all the time...
2) Knowledge about growing with leds evolves along ...
3) There's not enough money around ,for building led DIY projects ,with high quality (and expensive ) parts and materials...
I'm going back to the cheap and 'comfy' asian 1-watters ....
Their relatively low-cost (note : vastly differing quality between brands/manufacturers,for the same price !!! China-Way),along with their
easy soldering /mounting abilities ,allow the DIYer to use them in large numbers (pieces)...
Since they run @ ~ 350mA ,they are easy to keep cool ...
Since they are used in large numbers ,they offer the ability of evenly distributed light power ...
Their 120-130 ° emission angle ,is great for 'close encounters' with plant's canopy ...
They are easy to find/buy/replace ...
As for their efficiency ....
Well ,let's just say ,that it gets better and better ..
(Rather slower ,than the high -quality branded ones ,though...)
...I've used Astir panels before ,I know they do the job .....
(At least as good or even better than a 400 Watt HPS,for 144 pcs of 1-watters => ~ 130-140 Watts ,at plug ,with cheapo CC drivers included)
....
Now ....
I've read that guy's project a bit ....
(Not a mj grower ... )
http://www.sevengens.com/index.html
Some interesting parts :
LedEngin horti leds ...
http://www.sevengens.com/id98.html
His build :
http://www.sevengens.com/id97.html
http://www.sevengens.com/id90.html
http://www.sevengens.com/id113.html
http://www.sevengens.com/id85.html
And his Wavelengths page...
http://www.sevengens.com/id75.html
And my notes about it (in red ... )
* 200-280nm or UVC radiation is harmful to plants.
^^^^^^^^This is the UVB range.Yes ,harmful if more than ~500mW / sp.m...
Otherwise,it promotes anti-oxidants biosynthesis ..And many more ..
(At least to plants that are exposed in UVb radiation when cultivated,to their natural habitats.
MJ is one of those ... )
.* 315 380nm is the UVA range.* 320-340nm MAY have effects on cryptochrome.*365nm a "wavelength of interest" .
* 410nm LED have no effect that we know of.
( I disagree with that ...At least regarding mj )
.* 439nm the blue absorption peak of chlorophyll A.* 450nm Royal Blue is a readily available LED wavelength, commonly used to excite the remote-phosphor in LED lamps and is absorbed by one of the peaks in beta-carotene 450nm .* 469nm the blue absorption peak of chlorophyll B.> Chlorophyl both a and b have very wide absorption in the blue, between 430nm and 470nm is pretty much equally effective. You'll need a lot of this.
.
No, you need less than 15-20% of total power ,and thats while vegging .In flowering even less ...Regarding mj ...
*480-485nm second absorption peak of beta-carotene
.
* 525nm this is a phototropic activator our researchers are still trying to find the chromophore of.... It is apparent the plants are gaining direction and environmental signals from it... it effects internodal distancing in ways which most folks may find confusing! 525nm is also the wavelength of GaN or InGaN green LEDs commonly used in RGB displays, or mixed with red and blue to get white light.
* 590nm Carotenoid Absorption... carotenoids are both starch storing, structural compounds and nutritional compounds.
Jeffery Bucove increased the harvest bulk of his plants some 3 time by adding this wavelength.
Smells like HPS ,here ...
.
* 590nm phycoerythrin single absorption wavelength
.
* 625nm phycocyanin single absorption peak
(Does he grow sea-weeds ??? !!!! )
.
* 642-645nm is the peak absorption point of Chlorophyl-B.* 660nm Super-red LED wavelength --readily available sub for 670nm, multiple manufacturers, 1, 3 and 10W .
* 666-667nm this is actually the peak red absorption point for Chlorophyl-A
Actually is 662 nm when in solution ....
.
* 700nm light is to be avoided. It confuses the Phytochrome recycling systems in green plants
??? How,I wonder ,really ?
Emerson effect ,says opposite ,nevertheless...
.* 730nm for phytochrome recycling: needed for all kinds of morphogenic processes. A few minutes of 730nm light treatment after the full light cycle is over will revert the Pfr (activated) to the Pr (inactive) form of the phytochrome chromophore. This resets the chemistry for another lights-on cycle, and MAY be useful in shortening the classic dark side of the photo-period, fooling flowers and fruit into feeling a 24 hour day even though they got less hours of darkness than they 'think' they did...
.
And can induce all sorts of stretching effects,also ...
* 735nm is the closest available standard LED wavelength to the above 730nm
So .....
My next six ( ~130 Watts altogether) Astir panels ,are going to be (something )like that ....
10x 640-650 nm Reds : Main PS engine for both A & B photosystems (Perfect for neither of them ,but good enough for both ..) .
8x WW 3000K 80CRI : For activation of (crucial ) photo-protective accessory pigments .( Yellow-Amber-lower red wls )
4x NW 5000K 75 CRI : Green wls needed ...
1x Blue 460-470 nm : Main engine for blue wls ..(Stomata have to stay open ,you see ...)
1x Violet 400-410 nm : Some anti-oxidant biosynthesis ' light push ' ..For extra quality ....
1) Leds keep evolving all the time...
2) Knowledge about growing with leds evolves along ...
3) There's not enough money around ,for building led DIY projects ,with high quality (and expensive ) parts and materials...
I'm going back to the cheap and 'comfy' asian 1-watters ....
Their relatively low-cost (note : vastly differing quality between brands/manufacturers,for the same price !!! China-Way),along with their
easy soldering /mounting abilities ,allow the DIYer to use them in large numbers (pieces)...
Since they run @ ~ 350mA ,they are easy to keep cool ...
Since they are used in large numbers ,they offer the ability of evenly distributed light power ...
Their 120-130 ° emission angle ,is great for 'close encounters' with plant's canopy ...
They are easy to find/buy/replace ...
As for their efficiency ....
Well ,let's just say ,that it gets better and better ..
(Rather slower ,than the high -quality branded ones ,though...)
...I've used Astir panels before ,I know they do the job .....
(At least as good or even better than a 400 Watt HPS,for 144 pcs of 1-watters => ~ 130-140 Watts ,at plug ,with cheapo CC drivers included)
....
Now ....
I've read that guy's project a bit ....
(Not a mj grower ... )
http://www.sevengens.com/index.html
Some interesting parts :
LedEngin horti leds ...
http://www.sevengens.com/id98.html
His build :
http://www.sevengens.com/id97.html
http://www.sevengens.com/id90.html
http://www.sevengens.com/id113.html
http://www.sevengens.com/id85.html
And his Wavelengths page...
http://www.sevengens.com/id75.html
And my notes about it (in red ... )
* 200-280nm or UVC radiation is harmful to plants.
^^^^^^^^This is the UVB range.Yes ,harmful if more than ~500mW / sp.m...
Otherwise,it promotes anti-oxidants biosynthesis ..And many more ..
(At least to plants that are exposed in UVb radiation when cultivated,to their natural habitats.
MJ is one of those ... )
.* 315 380nm is the UVA range.* 320-340nm MAY have effects on cryptochrome.*365nm a "wavelength of interest" .
* 410nm LED have no effect that we know of.
( I disagree with that ...At least regarding mj )
.* 439nm the blue absorption peak of chlorophyll A.* 450nm Royal Blue is a readily available LED wavelength, commonly used to excite the remote-phosphor in LED lamps and is absorbed by one of the peaks in beta-carotene 450nm .* 469nm the blue absorption peak of chlorophyll B.> Chlorophyl both a and b have very wide absorption in the blue, between 430nm and 470nm is pretty much equally effective. You'll need a lot of this.
.
No, you need less than 15-20% of total power ,and thats while vegging .In flowering even less ...Regarding mj ...
*480-485nm second absorption peak of beta-carotene
.
* 525nm this is a phototropic activator our researchers are still trying to find the chromophore of.... It is apparent the plants are gaining direction and environmental signals from it... it effects internodal distancing in ways which most folks may find confusing! 525nm is also the wavelength of GaN or InGaN green LEDs commonly used in RGB displays, or mixed with red and blue to get white light.
* 590nm Carotenoid Absorption... carotenoids are both starch storing, structural compounds and nutritional compounds.
Jeffery Bucove increased the harvest bulk of his plants some 3 time by adding this wavelength.
Smells like HPS ,here ...
.
* 590nm phycoerythrin single absorption wavelength
.
* 625nm phycocyanin single absorption peak
(Does he grow sea-weeds ??? !!!! )
.
* 642-645nm is the peak absorption point of Chlorophyl-B.* 660nm Super-red LED wavelength --readily available sub for 670nm, multiple manufacturers, 1, 3 and 10W .
* 666-667nm this is actually the peak red absorption point for Chlorophyl-A
Actually is 662 nm when in solution ....
.
* 700nm light is to be avoided. It confuses the Phytochrome recycling systems in green plants
??? How,I wonder ,really ?
Emerson effect ,says opposite ,nevertheless...
.* 730nm for phytochrome recycling: needed for all kinds of morphogenic processes. A few minutes of 730nm light treatment after the full light cycle is over will revert the Pfr (activated) to the Pr (inactive) form of the phytochrome chromophore. This resets the chemistry for another lights-on cycle, and MAY be useful in shortening the classic dark side of the photo-period, fooling flowers and fruit into feeling a 24 hour day even though they got less hours of darkness than they 'think' they did...
.
And can induce all sorts of stretching effects,also ...
* 735nm is the closest available standard LED wavelength to the above 730nm
So .....
My next six ( ~130 Watts altogether) Astir panels ,are going to be (something )like that ....
10x 640-650 nm Reds : Main PS engine for both A & B photosystems (Perfect for neither of them ,but good enough for both ..) .
8x WW 3000K 80CRI : For activation of (crucial ) photo-protective accessory pigments .( Yellow-Amber-lower red wls )
4x NW 5000K 75 CRI : Green wls needed ...
1x Blue 460-470 nm : Main engine for blue wls ..(Stomata have to stay open ,you see ...)
1x Violet 400-410 nm : Some anti-oxidant biosynthesis ' light push ' ..For extra quality ....
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Vegging with almost 'all-whitey' leds ....
..
It's just amazing ,the way leds affect photomorphogenesis (and not only ) of plants ...
Here ,an experiment going on ...
( Details omitted ...
)...
2x Astir ASLV 24 vegging panels ( 4x 640-650 red leds ,8x NW 5000K ,12 x WW 3000K-all driven @~320mA )
And in the middle a custom Guod-Stardustsailor panel (Oslon SSL leds ) with 12 x NW 4000K CRI 95 & 24x WW 3000K CRI 85 -all driven @600mA )
And yes ...
I'm pretty sure by now,that some (just few ) blue leds are needed ,for properly grown mj ...
1 blue for every 8-10 red leds ....Approx ....
And since 'excitation dies' from white leds fall somewhere at 445-455 nm range ..
Then ,probably it is wise to use 460-470 nm blue leds ...
..It's just amazing ,the way leds affect photomorphogenesis (and not only ) of plants ...
Here ,an experiment going on ...
( Details omitted ...
)...2x Astir ASLV 24 vegging panels ( 4x 640-650 red leds ,8x NW 5000K ,12 x WW 3000K-all driven @~320mA )
And in the middle a custom Guod-Stardustsailor panel (Oslon SSL leds ) with 12 x NW 4000K CRI 95 & 24x WW 3000K CRI 85 -all driven @600mA )
And yes ...
I'm pretty sure by now,that some (just few ) blue leds are needed ,for properly grown mj ...
1 blue for every 8-10 red leds ....Approx ....
And since 'excitation dies' from white leds fall somewhere at 445-455 nm range ..
Then ,probably it is wise to use 460-470 nm blue leds ...
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Well-well ....
A new ' school ' is emerging here ?
Monocromatics as main engine ( Red +Blue )
And/or other ' effects' ...( Like with Violet / UV leds or FR /NIR leds )
And whites as ' fillers ',for those 'secondary' -but crucial- wls ,like ambers & greens...
...Instead of using monocromatic ones ,like in many scientific -and expensive- 'multichannel ' led lights ...
Hmm...
(Song devoted to fellow greek people suffering ,from 'crisis'.)
[video=youtube;P8JgwT7VSU8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8JgwT7VSU8[/video]
The ' results ' ,will confirm or not ,the success of this ...'school'...
I'm eager to find out ....
A new ' school ' is emerging here ?
Monocromatics as main engine ( Red +Blue )
And/or other ' effects' ...( Like with Violet / UV leds or FR /NIR leds )
And whites as ' fillers ',for those 'secondary' -but crucial- wls ,like ambers & greens...
...Instead of using monocromatic ones ,like in many scientific -and expensive- 'multichannel ' led lights ...
Hmm...
(Song devoted to fellow greek people suffering ,from 'crisis'.)
[video=youtube;P8JgwT7VSU8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8JgwT7VSU8[/video]
The ' results ' ,will confirm or not ,the success of this ...'school'...
I'm eager to find out ....
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
......
.....
...
[video=youtube;9d8SzG4FPyM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d8SzG4FPyM[/video]
.....
...[video=youtube;9d8SzG4FPyM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d8SzG4FPyM[/video]
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Here-hear.
How many times, in a bunch of DIY led threads over the last 18-24 months, have i recommended the need for multiple o/o switches, to be able to slide the RB as needed for veg then flower? But that was before the most recent advances to CW/NW/WW whites.
I contend that the average grower will not miss the extra switches and spectrum enhancers.
How much of an increase over a simple NW panel will us nerds get... 10%, 15%, I think 20% would be a stretch, of course I could be wrong.
So that leaves potency, which is highly subjective. Keep in mind many are getting awesome results using HPS. I have come to believe that ~ 300w of a quality led panel/s will outperform my Quantum BB 8 bulb 432w, which provides some very very fine medicine, though less efficient lw v lw.
I mixed a variety of 8 hot5 bulbs from the aquarium industry, creating a semi monochrome spectrum. After 4 grows of plugging in/out throughout the grows, Late in this grow I went back to mixing 6500/2900 1:3 in flower probably the opposite in veg. It's simple and effective. And now ZooMed makes a Tropical Wave which is ~ 5000K. If you already own the fixtures and are a personal use grower, and you can afford the extra electrical consumption, but but I think it is under-performing. Coming out the other end of this long and deep rabbit hole...
I have 4 clones under 2 ufo 90s, one is 5000K the other 3000K, all white diodes, so far I am very happy with how much fuller the clones are then when I was using a bunch of A19s for cloning, but ~ 115w vs ~ 180w is huge. My observation is that > 150w+ will provide awesome veg/clones. Once buds set in, I think mj wants less 450 and more 640-650, with the rest being all NW
How many times, in a bunch of DIY led threads over the last 18-24 months, have i recommended the need for multiple o/o switches, to be able to slide the RB as needed for veg then flower? But that was before the most recent advances to CW/NW/WW whites.
I contend that the average grower will not miss the extra switches and spectrum enhancers.
How much of an increase over a simple NW panel will us nerds get... 10%, 15%, I think 20% would be a stretch, of course I could be wrong.
So that leaves potency, which is highly subjective. Keep in mind many are getting awesome results using HPS. I have come to believe that ~ 300w of a quality led panel/s will outperform my Quantum BB 8 bulb 432w, which provides some very very fine medicine, though less efficient lw v lw.
I mixed a variety of 8 hot5 bulbs from the aquarium industry, creating a semi monochrome spectrum. After 4 grows of plugging in/out throughout the grows, Late in this grow I went back to mixing 6500/2900 1:3 in flower probably the opposite in veg. It's simple and effective. And now ZooMed makes a Tropical Wave which is ~ 5000K. If you already own the fixtures and are a personal use grower, and you can afford the extra electrical consumption, but but I think it is under-performing. Coming out the other end of this long and deep rabbit hole...
I have 4 clones under 2 ufo 90s, one is 5000K the other 3000K, all white diodes, so far I am very happy with how much fuller the clones are then when I was using a bunch of A19s for cloning, but ~ 115w vs ~ 180w is huge. My observation is that > 150w+ will provide awesome veg/clones. Once buds set in, I think mj wants less 450 and more 640-650, with the rest being all NW
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Pet ,you're a crazy farmer,my brother ....Here-hear.
How many times, in a bunch of DIY led threads over the last 18-24 months, have i recommended the need for multiple o/o switches, to be able to slide the RB as needed for veg then flower? But that was before the most recent advances to CW/NW/WW whites.
I contend that the average grower will not miss the extra switches and spectrum enhancers.
How much of an increase over a simple NW panel will us nerds get... 10%, 15%, I think 20% would be a stretch, of course I could be wrong.
So that leaves potency, which is highly subjective. Keep in mind many are getting awesome results using HPS. I have come to believe that ~ 300w of a quality led panel/s will outperform my Quantum BB 8 bulb 432w, which provides some very very fine medicine, though less efficient lw v lw.
I mixed a variety of 8 hot5 bulbs from the aquarium industry, creating a semi monochrome spectrum. After 4 grows of plugging in/out throughout the grows, Late in this grow I went back to mixing 6500/2900 1:3 in flower probably the opposite in veg. It's simple and effective. And now ZooMed makes a Tropical Wave which is ~ 5000K. If you already own the fixtures and are a personal use grower, and you can afford the extra electrical consumption, but but I think it is under-performing. Coming out the other end of this long and deep rabbit hole...
I have 4 clones under 2 ufo 90s, one is 5000K the other 3000K, all white diodes, so far I am very happy with how much fuller the clones are then when I was using a bunch of A19s for cloning, but ~ 115w vs ~ 180w is huge. My observation is that > 150w+ will provide awesome veg/clones. Once buds set in, I think mj wants less 450 and more 640-650, with the rest being all NW
A-ha ....
....( But not half as crazy as this one :
[video=youtube;0aPbHFVyf78]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aPbHFVyf78[/video]
)
Seriously....Throw some WW in there ....
Richelsdorfite
Well-Known Member
A made some computation with DIY software.
I use :
- 4 LR-CP7P drive 700mA => 108.5 lm each Pc=1.73W
- 12 XTE White 2200K CCT drive 700mA => 167 lm each Pc=2.13W
- 2 XTE White 2600K-3700K drive 700mA => 203 lm each Pc=2.13W
-6 XTE White 5000K-8000K drive 700mA => 217 lm each Pc=2.13W
Compute the radiometric power from datasheet curve and :
Radiant flux = 13 W and 62.3 umol/s
Total Pc = 49.5W + Driver (93%) + Power Supply (90%) = 60W
Efficiency = 21.66%
I use :
- 4 LR-CP7P drive 700mA => 108.5 lm each Pc=1.73W
- 12 XTE White 2200K CCT drive 700mA => 167 lm each Pc=2.13W
- 2 XTE White 2600K-3700K drive 700mA => 203 lm each Pc=2.13W
-6 XTE White 5000K-8000K drive 700mA => 217 lm each Pc=2.13W
Compute the radiometric power from datasheet curve and :
Radiant flux = 13 W and 62.3 umol/s
Total Pc = 49.5W + Driver (93%) + Power Supply (90%) = 60W
Efficiency = 21.66%