Are we entering the Post-Cognitive Age?

DiogenesTheWiser

Well-Known Member
I didn't mean it as an absolute, and the future (now) is better than ancient Rome's.
Yeah, but the 500s, 600s, 700s, and on and on really sucked for all those Europeans.

As for absolutes, the NOW is a wash. Better in some ways, worse in others. I think any historical time period could be compared to previous eras in such fashion.
 

jonsnow399

Well-Known Member
Yeah, but the 500s, 600s, 700s, and on and on really sucked for all those Europeans.

As for absolutes, the NOW is a wash. Better in some ways, worse in others. I think any historical time period could be compared to previous eras in such fashion.
Not hardly, If I had lived over 100 yrs ago I wouldn't have lived to be 50 years old. If my aunt would have been born 30 yrs later she would be alive now. Eternal life is right around the corner. Sure, some things are arguably worse but on average we are vastly better off.
 

DiogenesTheWiser

Well-Known Member
Not hardly, If I had lived over 100 yrs ago I wouldn't have lived to be 50 years old. If my aunt would have been born 30 yrs later she would be alive now. Eternal life is right around the corner. Sure, some things are arguably worse but on average we are vastly better off.
My grandfather lived to be 95 years old. His sisters, two of them, lived to be 98. From their 80th year to their deathbeds, quality of life sucked balls. My grandfather for years in his eighties said he wished he'd die.

Only fools would want to live forever.
 

jonsnow399

Well-Known Member
My grandfather lived to be 95 years old. His sisters, two of them, lived to be 98. From their 80th year to their deathbeds, quality of life sucked balls. My grandfather for years in his eighties said he wished he'd die.

Only fools would want to live forever.
You don't get it, the same advances that give eternal life will give a healthy life, I don't think I would want to live forever,... but I want the option.
 

DiogenesTheWiser

Well-Known Member
You don't get it, the same advances that give eternal life will give a healthy life, I don't think I would want to live forever,... but I want the option.
Shit I don't. I want to die at 70. Every 70+ year old I know says everything hurts all the time, and they have less ability to understand the changes to society that they've experienced. Not only that, but 70 years of dealing with people is enough.

And if it's a libertarian society 20 years from now, I'll surely want to die. Fuck that!
 

jonsnow399

Well-Known Member
Shit I don't. I want to die at 70. Every 70+ year old I know says everything hurts all the time, and they have less ability to understand the changes to society that they've experienced. Not only that, but 70 years of dealing with people is enough.

And if it's a libertarian society 20 years from now, I'll surely want to die. Fuck that!
didn't really read my post did you? If they make these advances there won't be pain and alzheimers. Damn, I thought I was negative, if you're tired of people why don't you kill yourself now?
 

DiogenesTheWiser

Well-Known Member
didn't really read my post did you? If they make these advances there won't be pain and alzheimers. Damn, I thought I was negative, if you're tired of people why don't you kill yourself now?
Assuming there'll be those things. Chances are, despite not knowing your age, I'll be 70 before you are 50.

Anyway, you didn't read my post either. Why the fuck would anyone want to have to deal with people for 70+ years? 70 years of dealing with assholes is enough for me.
 

jonsnow399

Well-Known Member
Assuming there'll be those things. Chances are, despite not knowing your age, I'll be 70 before you are 50.

Anyway, you didn't read my post either. Why the fuck would anyone want to have to deal with people for 70+ years? 70 years of dealing with assholes is enough for me.
I was making the assumption but it doesn't matter you and I won't see it but my kids probably will, I'm over 60 so I'm probably older than you. when you're retired you don't have to deal with people unless you want to. If you are too fragile to deal with people seek help.
 

DiogenesTheWiser

Well-Known Member
I was making the assumption but it doesn't matter you and I won't see it but my kids probably will, I'm over 60 so I'm probably older than you. when you're retired you don't have to deal with people unless you want to. If you are too fragile to deal with people seek help.
There's no retirement for folks my age!! I spend just about all my income on housing, food, and insurance.

And my grandpa who retired at 65 still had to deal with people.
 

jonsnow399

Well-Known Member
There's no retirement for folks my age!! I spend just about all my income on housing, food, and insurance.

And my grandpa who retired at 65 still had to deal with people.
I rarely deal with anyone I don't want to, and I live a comfortable retirement. tip, save your money, and live within your means and you can too.
 

DiogenesTheWiser

Well-Known Member
I rarely deal with anyone I don't want to, and I live a comfortable retirement. tip, save your money, and live within your means and you can too.
I don't make enough money to save and it's pointless anyway. I don't want to retire. I'll work until age 70 and then blow my brains out.
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
My post is not about whether people want to think or desire thinking and there'll be fewer of those in the future. Rather, my post is that technologically speaking, thinking is about to become obsolete just like learning to bridle a horse has become obsolete, just like beating clothes against a washboard has become obsolete, just like typing will become obsolete through voice recognition word processing software.

Think back to the 1970s or early 1980s and the calculator. It made memorizing multiplication tables obsolete at the same time that I was memorizing them. Why on earth do I need to know them now? I don't. Same shit for algebra--and all the countless hours I spent trying to graph a parabola. Today, a computer program can do this for you.

Similarly, with 3-D printing, eventually machines will cut on us to take our ruptured appendix, or our inflamed tonsils. All that will be needed is some tech, minimally trained, to watch the machine.

Eventually, this post-cognitive age will lead to a breakdown in society as we all retreat to our enclaves. This is why the libertarians are a very vocal group today. They don't want to think, don't have to think, and they want their own home to be a sovereign nation unto itself.

I know my idea here isn't well developed yet, but I'm developing it, so this post and the previous ones are a work in progress. But essentially, tech makes various things in human society obsolete. I'm arguing that our smart technology and computing capabilities will render a future society in which thinking is obsolete. In many ways, that movie Idiocracy is coming true, but it wont' take 500 years to get there.
Very true. I see it with my kids already. As a parent I have to stay on top of this. Aside from their safety and general well being, encouraging kids to pick up a book, or pick up a guitar, or anything that forces them to use their brain has to be a priority. It's so easy to let them fiddle with computers, phones, tablets, etc. Our schools even asign a laptop and/or tablet to every student. I really worry about what you're touching on here, and the consequences of it down the line...
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
you don't know different, I'm optimistic.
I'm a born optimist; we are wired to be.

Then I grew up, got an education and learned about the world, how it came to be and the direction of current trends.

Many of those trends are terrifying from a standpoint of building a better future; pollution, global warming, growing population, conflict, runaway wealth inequality, etc.

And yet, I'm STILL an optimist because I believe it's still possible to have a better future for us and our children- the difference is that now we must work much harder at it. It's now a question of whether those with the most power can be persuaded to help in time to prevent the consequences of current trends from destroying us and our planet.

As I said above, nothing is guaranteed.
 
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ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I didn't mean it as an absolute, and the future (now) is better than ancient Rome's.
I highly recommend you get a copy of Collapse, by Dr Jared Diamond. He's also the author of the highly acclaimed Guns, Germs & Steel, also recommended, which in fact serves well as a primer for Collapse.

History is littered with the bones of failed societies. The modern one we live in today is only different in terms of its technology and global reach- neither of which guarantee a better fate than those that came before.

Believe me when I tell you how optimistic one has to be to believe we even can avoid a Great Collapse ourselves. It now remains to convince everyone on Earth that it's in their best interest to participate in the solution- something of a long shot.
 

jonsnow399

Well-Known Member
I highly recommend you get a copy of Collapse, by Dr Jared Diamond. He's also the author of the highly acclaimed Guns, Germs & Steel, also recommended, which in fact serves well as a primer for Collapse.

History is littered with the bones of failed societies. The modern one we live in today is only different in terms of its technology and global reach- neither of which guarantee a better fate than those that came before.

Believe me when I tell you how optimistic one has to be to believe we even can avoid a Great Collapse ourselves. It now remains to convince everyone on Earth that it's in their best interest to participate in the solution- something of a long shot.
Yellowstone could erupt tomorrow, we could get hit by an asteroid. There are countless ways for society to be destroyed. Don't worry about what you have no control over.
 

tampee

Well-Known Member
You completely lost me on the wizards of Netflix I can't ever find anything good to watch on that shit.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Yellowstone could erupt tomorrow, we could get hit by an asteroid. There are countless ways for society to be destroyed. Don't worry about what you have no control over.
Read the book. You'll find that precious few of the examples listed failed through no fault of their own.

We DO have control over all those factors most likely to destroy us, which are human caused. Climate change, overpopulation, soil depletion, war and conflict are all human caused and much more likely to be the causes of our demise.

Beyond that, we are indeed developing the capability to find and deal with asteroids before they crash into the Earth. Yellowstone is survivable with planning, some of which has already been done.

What's lacking is the vision, as evidenced by the attitude you're displaying right now among others, and the will to make the necessary changes.

We all now live in the ancient Chinese curse, 'may you live in interesting times'.
 

jonsnow399

Well-Known Member
Read the book. You'll find that precious few of the examples listed failed through no fault of their own.

We DO have control over all those factors most likely to destroy us, and we are indeed developing the capability to find and deal with asteroids before they crash into the Earth. Yellowstone is survivable with planning, some of which has already been done.

What's lacking is the vision, as evidenced by the attitude you're displaying right now among others, and the will to make the necessary changes.

We all now live in the ancient Chinese curse, 'may you live in interesting times'.
What "planning" you gonna do for yellowstone? Asteroid interception? good luck with that.
 

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
I'm just saying that post-cognition is where we're headed. People don't want to think. It's human nature to not want to have to think. Go teach college classes and you'll hear from all these 18-24 year olds that "I don't want to have to think..." And many of them accused me of making them "think too much" when I was a college prof. I then asked "What are the consequences of thinking too much?" Usually, they couldn't answer that question with the exception of a reluctant "I guess there aren't any...but it' 'hurts' to have to think."

Just to be clear, I don't support our society's move toward post-cognition. I'm just saying that higher ed is basically obsolete now and will become much more so in the next 10-15 years. i'm saying that the average american worker doesn't need to think to perform their jobs, and most jobs out there punish creative thinking or innovative thinking (result of American anti-unionism). Even our political representatives capitalize on a non-thinking society. This is why we get pithy campaign slogans instead of reasoned debate and ideas. Even on social media, people post comments without even thinking because social media encourages non-thoughtful comments. Social media, likewise, will fundamentally change the English language to be more suitable to the post-cognitive American. We're already doing that with our lettering and LOL-ing. I'm just saying this is where we're headed barring unforeseen calamities that knock smart tech off its perch like nuclear war or solar flares.
Where does it start?
My youngest daughter used to ask me what time it was -- even though there was a clock on the wall right in front of her face. It was an "old fashioned" clock with hands, and she preferred digital. When I figured out she was just lazy, I'd point at the clock every time she asked.
Fast forward 15 years and she graduated cum laude from a prestigious college.
Go figure... :roll:
 
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