Are we entering the Post-Cognitive Age?

DiogenesTheWiser

Well-Known Member
I must not be human then, I love to think. My problem is my mind races too much but I can't concentrate on any one subject too long.
I like to think as well and I think on everything. The reason why I'm displeased in my society is because too few other people like to think or want to have to think. I don't get along well with those folks.

This is why I like working with prisoners. All they do is think. It's a cockeyed world when all the free folks you meet don't think and don't want to, and all the imprisoned people you meet are some of the best thinkers out there.
 

DiogenesTheWiser

Well-Known Member
at some point the machines will monitor the machines.
I haven't yet figured out how a post-cognitive society will grow food given that machines can't quite do that and probably won't be able to in the foreseeable future. My guess is that most people will be farmers in the post-cognitive age. And to learn to do it, they'll consult a Wiki on "growing beets."

The middle ages was a non-cognitive society, so yes, my anticipation thereof falls in the category of dystopia.
 

jonsnow399

Well-Known Member
I haven't yet figured out how a post-cognitive society will grow food given that machines can't quite do that and probably won't be able to in the foreseeable future. My guess is that most people will be farmers in the post-cognitive age. And to learn to do it, they'll consult a Wiki on "growing beets."

The middle ages was a non-cognitive society, so yes, my anticipation thereof falls in the category of dystopia.
Why would most people be farmers, when farm employment has steadily dropped for years? This trend will only continue.
 

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
I like to think as well and I think on everything. The reason why I'm displeased in my society is because too few other people like to think or want to have to think. I don't get along well with those folks.

This is why I like working with prisoners. All they do is think. It's a cockeyed world when all the free folks you meet don't think and don't want to, and all the imprisoned people you meet are some of the best thinkers out there.

I agree about society and how and if they think. But the Bell Curve has been around a lot longer than electronic devices.

And prisoners may think often. They have nothing but time. But I don't think you can call most of them the best thinkers.

Are they not there for being the worst thinkers?
 

jonsnow399

Well-Known Member
I agree about society and how and if they think. But the Bell Curve has been around a lot longer than electronic devices.

And prisoners may think often. They have nothing but time. But I don't think you can call most of them the best thinkers.

Are they not there for being the worst thinkers?
He's talking about quantity, not quality.
 

DiogenesTheWiser

Well-Known Member
Why would most people be farmers, when farm employment has steadily dropped for years? This trend will only continue.
Because people have to feed themselves. Farmed foods include crops and livestock. This is what people will be concerned with mostly in the post-cognitive age. Well that and their online "identities," which are quickly replacing real time identity.

Think of the teenager or 21 or 22 year old that you know and how they can only experience things through their devices. For example, I saw the Brian Jonestown Massacre last summer. Among the old fuckers in the crowd, our phones were in our pockets. But for the teenagers and 20-somethings, they were watching the band through their phones.This is because their device is a surrogate for their cognitive abilities...a surrogate for experience.

To answer another query or issue, the prisoners I work with are some of the most logical thinkers I've encountered lately--but you have to consider the caveat that I'm in the Deep South where most folks don't think at all--so the benchmark for thought is rather low given the pork rinds-addicted, lotto culture here.
 

jonsnow399

Well-Known Member
Because people have to feed themselves. Farmed foods include crops and livestock. This is what people will be concerned with mostly in the post-cognitive age. Well that and their online "identities," which are quickly replacing real time identity.

Think of the teenager or 21 or 22 year old that you know and how they can only experience things through their devices. For example, I saw the Brian Jonestown Massacre last summer. Among the old fuckers in the crowd, our phones were in our pockets. But for the teenagers and 20-somethings, they were watching the band through their phones.This is because their device is a surrogate for their cognitive abilities...a surrogate for experience.

To answer another query or issue, the prisoners I work with are some of the most logical thinkers I've encountered lately--but you have to consider the caveat that I'm in the Deep South where most folks don't think at all--so the benchmark for thought is rather low given the pork rinds-addicted, lotto culture here.
There will still be a decrease in farm workers. Meat will be grown in vats.
 

DiogenesTheWiser

Well-Known Member
There will still be a decrease in farm workers. Meat will be grown in vats.
That's assuming that there'll be distribution networks in the post-cognitive society. Logistics requires thought. So in the absence of these items at stores, humans will have to grow/raise them on their own. It's called survival.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
That's assuming that there'll be distribution networks in the post-cognitive society. Logistics requires thought. So in the absence of these items at stores, humans will have to grow/raise them on their own. It's called survival.
That will be the case only after a complete social collapse, which would wipe out the cognitive replacement scenario you're suggesting.

I'm thinking the social collapse will come sooner rather than later.
 

jonsnow399

Well-Known Member
That's assuming that there'll be distribution networks in the post-cognitive society. Logistics requires thought. So in the absence of these items at stores, humans will have to grow/raise them on their own. It's called survival.
You're talking apocalypse now, you're off topic. The distribution network will be a no brainer., warehouses will be automated, drones or delivery trucks will be robotic.
 

DiogenesTheWiser

Well-Known Member
You're talking apocalypse now, you're off topic. The distribution network will be a no brainer., warehouses will be automated, drones or delivery trucks will be robotic.
But to get real food, one will have to grow it themselves. Also, you're assuming that there'll be currency through which to pay for these deliverables. In the dystopic society that's post-cognition, people will have to grow their own food because there'll be no jobs, no currency. Yes, dystopia is where we're headed, just like the Romans experienced dystopia after collapse of the Western Roman Empire. Societies do indeed regress--that means shit gets worse--and that's where we're headed as we humans try to figure out how to recreate a society in which thinking has been rendered obsolete because of our reliance on machines.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
But to get real food, one will have to grow it themselves. Also, you're assuming that there'll be currency through which to pay for these deliverables. In the dystopic society that's post-cognition, people will have to grow their own food because there'll be no jobs, no currency. Yes, dystopia is where we're headed, just like the Romans experienced dystopia after collapse of the Western Roman Empire. Societies do indeed regress--that means shit gets worse--and that's where we're headed as we humans try to figure out how to recreate a society in which thinking has been rendered obsolete because of our reliance on machines.
It sounds like you weren't clear about the timing of all this:

First, you're suggesting smart devices start doing all our thinking for us, so it doesn't matter if we think brown cows make chocolate milk or hamburgers come from the grocery store.

Then you're implying a crash of civilisation somehow, based on the insult of proper to think for themselves.

Then finally a dystopia where those who are left have to scratch out a living from what's left.

Please correct me, I'm trying to rephrase what I think you're saying?

The flaws in this scenario are that due to a highly mechanized global society, there won't be anywhere 'else' to relocate and start over. In addition, the conflict implied in the crash of civilisation will very likely include the use of nuclear weapons, thus all but guaranteeing a no survivors future.

If some are 'lucky' enough to survive, they'll suddenly be forced to think for themselves or they'll die.

I wonder if such a future is inevitable...
 

DiogenesTheWiser

Well-Known Member
It sounds like you weren't clear about the timing of all this:

First, you're suggesting smart devices start doing all our thinking for us, so it doesn't matter if we think brown cows make chocolate milk or hamburgers come from the grocery store.

Then you're implying a crash of civilisation somehow, based on the insult of proper to think for themselves.

Then finally a dystopia where those who are left have to scratch out a living from what's left.

Please correct me, I'm trying to rephrase what I think you're saying?

The flaws in this scenario are that due to a highly mechanized global society, there won't be anywhere 'else' to relocate and start over. In addition, the conflict implied in the crash of civilisation will very likely include the use of nuclear weapons, thus all but guaranteeing a no survivors future.

If some are 'lucky' enough to survive, they'll suddenly be forced to think for themselves or they'll die.

I wonder if such a future is inevitable...
In the event of solar flares knocking out telecommunications and combustible engines or a nuclear conflict doing that would derail the dystopia associated with a society that doesn't have to think anymore (because it's obsolete). Instead, we'd have another kind of dystopia altogether.

What I'm saying will happen will happen gradually, not all at once. This has been occurring. I'm old, pushing 50. When the television was relatively new right before my birth, people were heralding it as a panacea for education. Then the fights over educational television ensued while the soap opera and game show won over proponents of education. By the time I was a youngster with only four television channels, my parents bemoaned my brother and I "rotting our brains" on cartoons and silly game shows.

In short, the television was one of those gadgets that has, over the long term, contributed to a non-thinking society.

Then came computers--again, heralded as a panacea for education and educators--and today the most popular sites are porn. Today's teenager is amazed when I pull up a great piece of literature like Of Mice and Men and it's all free on google books. They say things like "I just thought the internet was where I consumed ESPN, shopped, or communicated with my friends...I didn't know you use it for THAT!"

Then came smartphone technology that's linked to our computers or tablets, and then there's this cloud thing that save all your data when one of your gadgets crashes, dies, and cannot be recovered. We don't even have to think about how to save our most prized information because the cloud does it for us.

These shifts in the way and level and frequency of human thought are gradual, instead of all at once. Right now, we can argue that roughly 60 or so million Americans cannot think past the "great" in the MAGA slogan. All they hear is the superlative, and that's good enough for them. They haven't thought about how "great" varies in its definition, depending on context. For example, Alexander the Great was great because he was a thieving murderer. Army was great at college football in the 1930s and 1940s. and the USA has a great supply of natural resources. What kind of great are the MAGA types talking about? Idk, let's google it--let's do anything but have to think about it.

This can be said about lots going on in our society right now that gives me reason to believe we're headed for further non-thought. Whenever I argue with assholes on twitter, a larger section of people are always talking about facts vs. lies. Back when we Americans thought more, we didn't characterize any issue in terms of facts vs. lies. Rather, we examined gray areas where the facts were kind of slippery, as were the lies.

I'm not the first one to criticize this in a civilization. Plato did the same in Athenian society. He considered the Sophists to be basically intellectual prostitutes who cared not for truth, but instead to control the way people thought. This is why he created the Academy to train people to think rationally...because he was well aware that the most properous and powerful Athenians among him were idiots who could barely think past their nose without the help of a Sophist rhetorician to do it for him.

Today's Sophist is our reliance on smart tech and the Internet. It's only going to get worse. And human nature is at play here as well. When given the chance, we won't think and will resist it. This is why TV and the entertainment choices on the Internet beat out its educational purposes.
 

DiogenesTheWiser

Well-Known Member
Have I mentioned the alterations of English, which are already occurring. The LOL-ing and other shorthand devices we've created so as to maximize our time on social media and using our smart phones will become standard English. From its very appearance, this newer version of English is conducive to a non-cognitive society. Eventually, emojis will replace the English altogether.

On the Mike Judge movie Idiocracy, the 21st century time traveler goes to a hospital, where the attending ER staff has a panoply of pictograms that indicate what might be wrong with somebody. That's what I mean about a non-thinking society--that's kind of what it will look like.

Why read when a society doesn't have to anymore? Language as we know it will become obsolete in the post-cognitive society. We aren't there yet, but by the time I'm nearing death in 25 years, it will be even closer.
 

Attachments

jonsnow399

Well-Known Member
Have I mentioned the alterations of English, which are already occurring. The LOL-ing and other shorthand devices we've created so as to maximize our time on social media and using our smart phones will become standard English. From its very appearance, this newer version of English is conducive to a non-cognitive society. Eventually, emojis will replace the English altogether.

On the Mike Judge movie Idiocracy, the 21st century time traveler goes to a hospital, where the attending ER staff has a panoply of pictograms that indicate what might be wrong with somebody. That's what I mean about a non-thinking society--that's kind of what it will look like.

Why read when a society doesn't have to anymore? Language as we know it will become obsolete in the post-cognitive society. We aren't there yet, but by the time I'm nearing death in 25 years, it will be even closer.
reading is an inefficient way to gather info, in the future knowledge will be implanted. you're mourning the past, the future will be better not worse.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
reading is an inefficient way to gather info, in the future knowledge will be implanted. you're mourning the past, the future will be better not worse.
You don't know that.

The best we can do is hope and work for it.

Many, many times in the past disaster has befallen large numbers of people, even entire nations and civilisations.

There is nothing guaranteed about the future, other than that it will be the result of what we do today.
 

jonsnow399

Well-Known Member
You don't know that.

The best we can do is hope and work for it.

Many, many times in the past disaster has befallen large numbers of people, even entire nations and civilisations.

There is nothing guaranteed about the future, other than that it will be the result of what we do today.
you don't know different, I'm optimistic.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Education needs to be reformed to give people the ability to learn, not fill their head with useless garbage.

Or teach kids that bullying is an acceptable means to an end, which is the present message put out by government schools.
 

DiogenesTheWiser

Well-Known Member
reading is an inefficient way to gather info, in the future knowledge will be implanted. you're mourning the past, the future will be better not worse.
It's not a given that the future will be better than the past. For example, residents of Roman Gaul and Italy lived for decades in a cosmopolitan society that included robust trade, knowledge dissemination, security, and stability. After the sacking of Rome in 410 by the barbarii, Romans had to flee to the Catholic Church for help. And the stability and security never returned, trade slowed to a trickle. Western Europe didn't come out of the middle ages until the 1500s or 1600s.

It's not a given that the future will be better than the past. And I'm not mourning anything. I'm merely speculating on the implications of the digital revl
 

jonsnow399

Well-Known Member
It's not a given that the future will be better than the past. For example, residents of Roman Gaul and Italy lived for decades in a cosmopolitan society that included robust trade, knowledge dissemination, security, and stability. After the sacking of Rome in 410 by the barbarii, Romans had to flee to the Catholic Church for help. And the stability and security never returned, trade slowed to a trickle. Western Europe didn't come out of the middle ages until the 1500s or 1600s.

It's not a given that the future will be better than the past. And I'm not mourning anything. I'm merely speculating on the implications of the digital revl
I didn't mean it as an absolute, and the future (now) is better than ancient Rome's.
 
Top