4 Kessil H350 - 600W HID Comparison; the highlight reel

justjim said:

1. Kessil says purple for veg, magenta for flower so that's what I followed.

2. You spent $2,500 without research? Damn. Lol. That's a valuable lesson!

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That is a good point, but I actually spent months on end of research before deciding to take the plunge. The information I could gather suggested that LED's could come close to the performance of HPS lighing during bloom at about half the energy use.

I can say that the Veg/Bloom combo LED lights I have are doing an excellent job in veg. However, the 200w (165 actual) Solar Flare Bloom Booster lights do not appear to be adding much to my 600w HPS lights (I placed one Solar Flare at each end of two 600w HPS lights in two separate 4x5' rooms). Of course, these are just my gross observations and do not come anywhere near the relatively scientific experiment you conducted. I do plan to experiment with various combinations of HPS/CMH/LED lights in the near future to see if they might somehow compliment each other and hopefully surpass the 1 gram per watt ideal. It seems that the dark leaf color that the LED's promote might somehow contribute to more light absorption when used together with HPS or CMH lights, but I may be entirely full of shit.

Plantus Maximus said:

... but I may be entirely full of shit.

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Not quite, at least no more than the rest of us. Experience is king. What someone else can do with your equipment is different than what you can do. Experience is king.

Yo Jim,
I too have only used Biobizz (since I started this whole endeavor a couple years ago). I do use a couple of non-biobizz products - like Budswell, Purplemaxx, Gravity, & Hygrozyme. I do notice a better taste in my buds than other dispensary purchased buds. I am a big fan of vaporizing, so taste is huge with me.

I would definitely say that the quality (strength) of the buds with the LEDs vs HPS is no different for sure. They are just as resinous & trichome covered.

I would love to see pics of your new setup. I would love to show you pictures of mine, but I think I have location data embedded in my photos (although i'm not too educated on that whole thing).

I am pretty sure I will increase the yield and density with more lumens, thus the (2) new H350s and the VHO T5 unit.

Most importantly, thank you for this thread. The information out there on LEDs is so biased, its nice to see some actual data!!!!

I would like to see the pictures of the plants before they where chopped. I know you probably already did but because of the hijack they where lost. BTW +REP

Great review ! Thanks for sharing
+rep

This grow journal is great. I'm really looking into LED's at the moment and was thinking about going for California Light Works Solar Flare 200w unit. I like the ability to move these around more and set your footprint better though. Maybe I'll just get two of these instead! FYI, I was going to get my 200w unit from here, but they also have Kessil's for way less than the $375 that was paid for these: http://www.growershouse.com/kessil-h350-led-grow-light-350-magenta.html

Still around, Jim?

Snafu1236 said:

Still around, Jim?

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Yeppers. I still use the Kessils for supplemental lighting right now. I'd like to do a small grow, maybe 3x3, using all 5 Kessils to see if pouring on the light makes a big difference. But that's a project for some time down the road.

Interesting. I have four Kessil H350 Magentas myself along with other lighting...came across this journal and was intrigued to see what you progress has been with them since you posted last.

My appreciation for your response!

Thanks for the great thread BTW.

-Snafu

Beefbisquit said:

About 95W each. 4 combined would be about 380W...

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Actualy they only draw about 61 watts

justjim, I'm growing with 4 H350 magenta H350s and a spectral spinner. I've built some auxiliary diy LED lighting fixtures to add to the spinner. When I grew with the H350s, I also had fluorescent side lighting and I got some very nice results. The aim of these small fixtures (about 20watts each) is to give not only a little more light but hopefully more spectrum appropriate for each stage of growth. I've built a royal blue fixture, a white fixture and a couple of deep reds (with Philipps luxeon es chips, stevesled drivers and nice large heatsinks from usaheatsink). I've also built a couple of diy led strip lights white Cree XML WWs and CWs for some white side lighting to replace the fluorescents that I had been using. I'm thinking that I'll be able to grow very well over a 4 x 4 space with that. I really think that Kessil had some great ideas with their lights and one should treat it a little more like a system with the spinner and some smaller fixtures to change the spectrum over time. I considered using their 30 watt red and blue lights but I like diy and then I know the quality of every part that went into it - although Kessil does have some of the best build quality out there. Coverage is greatly enhanced with the spinner and the "melding" of the spectrums should give better results;guess I'll find out.

Senorvaldez said:

Actualy they only draw about 61 watts

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They're definitely rated for 90W.

That they are def rated for 90w but they only draw 61w from the wall, I'm not downing them at all , I own 6

Senorvaldez said:

That they are def rated for 90w but they only draw 61w from the wall, I'm not downing them at all , I own 6

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Yep....my meter from wall draw for an H350 is 62 watts.

_snafu

Kambo said:

Jim,

I've been a long time follower of other grows on this forum and I must say your journal is one of the most unbiased and exciting journal I've followed. I have seen Kessil lights for sale on horticulture websites before but never bothered to do any research on them due to their size + output. Like everyone else, I figured they were just supplemental lights which I kind of still think BUT a few of these in bunches will have substantial lumens, enough to provide a full grow cycle(veg+bloom), using exclusively these lights, given both the dark purple and megenta spectrums are used.

You've inspired me enough that I'm seriously considering adding 12 or so of these to my grow in the near future(2-3 months).

My lighting setup: 24 plants ( *** some stuff I have some stuff I will be purchasing *** )

(1) ProSource 350W Pro-Series Illuminator
(4) Hydrogrow 336X X2 LED Panels
(4) Fluorgrow T5HO 4ft x4 bulbs per fixture
(12) Kessil H350 LED
----(6) Magenta
----(6) Deep Purple

Is this setup superior to 1000W HID?
Will there be a surplus/excess light wasted or will it all be put to use?
Does anyone think this is overkill?

I'm thinking........... More light = More Buds

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You are going to be running WAY more wattage than 1000W.... You will hit diminishing returns. What size area do you need to illuminate?

Kambo, seriously a spinner for the Kessils. Coverage is important and you'll be blending spectrums over an area if you purchase (or make) different fixtures. You can use fewer fixtures because you are leveraging their use more effectively.

...and maybe it's overkill...or not...really depends on your space as beef was asking above.

Beef, JCMJRT, I'm using a 20x10x10 grow tent for 24 plants. I'm unsure which layout setup would be most effective & efficient. I was planning on using the (4) Hydrogrow 336X LED panels as the top lighting and T5's set up to point upwards at a slightly tilted angle to provide supplemental lighting for the lower portion of the plants. As for the Kessil lightings I'm still stumped as to where they should be placed for an even spread w/o blocking any light from the top lighting. I'll draw up a diagram in the next a or two to illustrate what I mean.

Any suggestions would be gladly considered for a set up since this is just what I came up with and it's not set in stone.

Hydrogrow panels and Kessils are extremely overpriced IMO...

I'd use many, smaller panels as opposed to fewer, large panels. Let's you customize your footprint more easily than large panels too. You sound like you have a serious garden, you will want the ease of customization, especially if you run multiple strains.

Beefbisquit said:

Hydrogrow panels and Kessils are extremely overpriced IMO...

I'd use many, smaller panels as opposed to fewer, large panels. Let's you customize your footprint more easily than large panels too. You sound like you have a serious garden, you will want the ease of customization, especially if you run multiple strains.

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If you pay full retail on Kessils, I'd have to agree about them being overpriced but growershouse.com has H350s for $251 and at that, I think they are very reasonably priced as they work and last...which is probably why I ended up with 4 and a spinner. I haven't seen a better build quality LED yet other than some diys.

Multiple smaller units is the way to go...or larger on a light mover is OK too.

Now as to the size of your space...big grow there! You need roughly 30 - 45 watts/ft2 (LED light but this varies up or down depending on the quality of the light, coverage, etc) but at least rough planning...20 x 10 = 200 ft2 200 x 35 = 7000 watts HID is roughly 50 to 65 watts/ft2 so 200 x 55 = 11000 watts...so you'd need 11 thousand watt HID units to adequately light your space...or 7000 watts equivalent in good LED. Since you've got 10 foot of height, I'd guess that you want some tall plants so you should be looking at high wattage LED chips 5W or larger so you get penetration.

I really like both T5HO and LED lighting but one limitation on them both is they grow well only what is almost directly under them. Take the size of the actual panel and add 2 - 6 inches/side...so add 4 - 12 inches to the dimensions given and that's how much they will actually cover for good flower. Additionally, T5 needs to be kept close to the plants (inches) as the penetration is limited compared to HID...so smaller plants are in order...3 footers maybe...and LED usually does better with smaller plants/even canopy as well although the higher wattage LEDs will penetrate well. Make a scale drawing of your space and panels and see what you think. You could always add some cheaper HID (HPS & MH) and the T5/LED lighting will help keep the heat down or grow a few less plants the first time round. Another thought is looking at CMH; I haven't checked it out closely as I'm firmly on the LED path but some people are having excellent results with CMH.