Balls to the Wall grow, Riddleme Gets Serious

DaveCoulier said:

I came across that link earlier when googling .

Im not sure where I mentioned heat in that post you quoted. Plus infrared does generate heat, or were you referring to near infrared?

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skunkushybrid01 said:

Infra red is heat. Infra red is quite literally just another name for heat. when we say... oh, it's hot today... what we actually mean is that we are receiving lots of infra red from the sun.

I wrote a thread a few years ago now on how blue light is actually preferred by plants than red. Each blue photon is worth more to the plant than a red one is. Blue photons are more potent, each blue photon will give a plant far more energy than a red one.

Plants have never preferred red light to flower, indeed plants had to evolve a relationship with chlorophylls to harvest the red light as they do not do it naturally. Chlorophylls are also adept at handling blue light too, it is believed that plants only gained this symbiotic relationship with the chlorophylls (nobody knows exactly where the chlorophylls came from) as the sun puts out a lot of red light. red light is weak, but plentiful... so plants adapted to harvest it too. Doesn't mean they prefer it... just means that there is more red light in the plants natural habitat.

a 400w MH is of more value than a 400w HPS photon for photon... the only difference from our perspective is that a MH lamp puts out more heat and the bulbs don't last as long. The thing to remember is that blue light equals light quality, red light equals light quantity. Red has more lumens but they are much weaker lumens.


at the end of the day though.. a photon is a photon... and so long as the plant is getting enough for optimum growth then it will grow optimally, no matter if it is red, blue or a mixture. However, i would suggest that some green light is needed as it has been proven that seedlings grow better with supplemented green light. The green light apparently offsets completely the slight irradiance caused by the effects of blue and red light, either or. Of course this irradiance is normally counteracted by the benefits of photosynthesis, but it is still an irradiance that makes a difference on growth.

Of course i'm now steeled, ready for all the newbs at this site to start screaming that i don't know what i'm talking about.

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gumball said:

Very interesting post! I would not say you don't know what you are talking about, as I don't know either!! But the "newbs" should not either and shouldn't call u out on it. What your post did do is get the minds of us open minded growers that are not afraid of going against the grain to thinking about how accurate your post is. The CMH bulb and its use for the full life cycle gives your post a little more credence because it has a lot more blue (from what I have seen), puts off more energy, and provides as good of results as the red lighted HPS while producing less light output, but yet more "useable energy" for the plant. The green light really intrigued me. I could run a test of a seedling undder nothing but green, and one under blue and see the difference, would be interesting.

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We report on the response of dry plant seeds to their irradiation with intense green light applied at biostimulatory doses. Red and near-infrared light delivered by lasers or arrays of light emitting diodes applied at such doses have been shown previously by us to have effects on mammalian cells. Effects include cell proliferation and elevation of cell vitality, and have practical applications in various biomedical fields. Growth processes induced by photoreceptor stimulation (phytochromes and cryptochromes) in plant seeds with green light were described so far only for imbibed seeds. In this paper, we show that irradiation of dry cress, radish and carrot seeds with intense green light (laser or arrays of light emitting diodes), applied at biostimulatory doses, resulted in a significant increase in biomass—14, 26, and 71 days after seeding, respectively. In the case of radish and carrot, the irradiation led to important changes in the root-to-foliage surface ratio. Seeds with a potential to grant growth acceleration could be of special interest in agricultural applications, and could even compensate for shorter growth seasons caused by climate change.

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skunkushybrid01 said:

Infra red is heat. Infra red is quite literally just another name for heat. when we say... oh, it's hot today... what we actually mean is that we are receiving lots of infra red from the sun.

I wrote a thread a few years ago now on how blue light is actually preferred by plants than red. Each blue photon is worth more to the plant than a red one is. Blue photons are more potent, each blue photon will give a plant far more energy than a red one.

Plants have never preferred red light to flower, indeed plants had to evolve a relationship with chlorophylls to harvest the red light as they do not do it naturally. Chlorophylls are also adept at handling blue light too, it is believed that plants only gained this symbiotic relationship with the chlorophylls (nobody knows exactly where the chlorophylls came from) as the sun puts out a lot of red light. red light is weak, but plentiful... so plants adapted to harvest it too. Doesn't mean they prefer it... just means that there is more red light in the plants natural habitat.

a 400w MH is of more value than a 400w HPS photon for photon... the only difference from our perspective is that a MH lamp puts out more heat and the bulbs don't last as long. The thing to remember is that blue light equals light quality, red light equals light quantity. Red has more lumens but they are much weaker lumens.


at the end of the day though.. a photon is a photon... and so long as the plant is getting enough for optimum growth then it will grow optimally, no matter if it is red, blue or a mixture. However, i would suggest that some green light is needed as it has been proven that seedlings grow better with supplemented green light. The green light apparently offsets completely the slight irradiance caused by the effects of blue and red light, either or. Of course this irradiance is normally counteracted by the benefits of photosynthesis, but it is still an irradiance that makes a difference on growth.

Of course i'm now steeled, ready for all the newbs at this site to start screaming that i don't know what i'm talking about.

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DaveCoulier said:

Yeah, you'll probably be labeled a heretic for saying plants use green light, but its true folks!

I came across an excerpt from a study recently that documented chloroplasts actually reorienting themselves towards a green light source after it was moved from over head to along side the leafs.

I think a buddy did a writeup about green light, but unfortunately its only available at a site that is very strict on who can become a member. If I can get a copy of it from him, I will share it with you.

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skunkushybrid01 said:

Yeah that'd be great. I only bother with 2 sites now and this is the second one. Are you talking about canna cabanna? I had an account with those years ago but i can't remember the handle there now. Back then they were trying to hide unsuccessfully from google. i didn't really participate at the site much though. so maybe they just deleted my account when they had the shake up.

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BIGDAVE said:

subscribed. Riddleme, I have been following your "I make it rain" posts and have gainded a wealth of knowledge. Thanks

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Rocky Mountain High said:

Right on for the update. Damn runts !

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riddleme said:

Well I'll leave em go another few days, to see if anything happens???

and it's not easy getting an update with all the conversations going LOL

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