sharing my modified subcool super soil recipe

Sunny Organics

Well-Known Member
well, the original recipe on page one is a smaller batch i believe. only 2 bags of soil. i think the subcool is 8 bags? cant remember..

but here is the latest revised version that i was running:



I've done a lot of learning about plants, salts, and various other things related to growing. so here's my opinion as of today.

epsom salt, which is magnesium sulfate, (a completely water soluble form of just magnesium and sulfur), is not needed in the soil mix.

you're using a complete base soil in roots original... epsom salt being completely water soluble is available immediately and does nothing at all for long term release. the base soil alone has enough magnesium and sulfur and no more is needed.. if some was needed down the road it would be long gone from the epsom salt added in the mix by the time that time came.

I don't even think the potassium sulfate is needed honestly.. now, TODAY, knowing what I know now, I'd run something like this:
1 bag roots organic, 1 cup fish bone meal, 1 cup bat guano (high p, such as happy frog, or any high p guano that is fine texture, not pellets), 1 cup blood meal, and 1 cup of azomite... then just give them a microbial tea once a week brewed with EWC, Alaska Humus (ancient forest), like a large pinch of each is good. and a little sucanat (like 1 tsp per 2 gallons of water).

that's what I'd use. it'll get the job done.

but to simply answer your question about epsom salt.. magnesium and sulfur addition isnt really doing anything at the beginning of flower.. it'd be most beneficial if at all at the end of flower. both magnesium and sulfur help improve flavor, but you can easily throw off the nutrient ratio balance using a fully soluble raw salt such as epsom salt. and that'd be counter productive.

I think subcool's mix he based it off someone elses.. and I think he just sort of did a gumbo mix of ingredients that a lot of people use, and it worked for him so that's what he uses.. it doesn't mean that everything is necessary..

in my opinion roots original ALONE, can carry the plant at least through the first month of flower in a large 7gal pot. adding a little extra that breaks down slowly will carry it the rest..
Hey man how's the fading on the plants during flower with your most recent soil? I tried one of your recipes and i noticed some strains did yellow a bit earlier than expected. Maybe it was my teas? Other than the fading, everything came out super dank!!!

my most recent flowers with one of your recipes - Church Og different phenos that i got.

My favorites -
Pheno 1 Very OG like with a fuely smell, caked up and super dense. - http://puu.sh/kMEN4/de795983fc.jpg
Pheno 2 Didn't have a smell to her but she was the most caked up out of all of them and pretty dense, started fading purple at the end!! - http://puu.sh/kMEKf/0283fb3f98.jpg http://puu.sh/kMHd4/7d4bd495bc.jpg

Pheno 3 Had a fruity smell, dense, caked up, sativa dom. - http://puu.sh/kMEAC/4dacb4e281.jpg
Pheno 4 She was an outdoor plant that i moved back in, fluffy, not too caked up, looked like a hybrid and the high was decent. - http://puu.sh/kMEEw/71e37dcdf7.jpg

I had some Sour Ds but they outgrew everything, very tall and branchy i guess the soil was too hot. They started burning up so i just cut them down and moved some Bubba Gift that i just harvested.

Bubba Gift came out with a chocolate bubblegum smell, FIRE super caked up. It wasnt an indica for sure sativa dom, tall and branchy, pretty heavy yield. It's supposed to have a low flowering stage but i let it go 2 weeks longer. Freebie by Humboldt Seed Organization if im correct. Worth getting, it's fire. She also seemed to burn up earlier than the rest, all my sativa phenos did. Haven't taken pics yet, falling from the weight haha :bigjoint:... - http://puu.sh/kMFxf/580a383a86.jpg

More to come soon, hope you guys like them. :blsmoke:
 
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sidewing

Well-Known Member
How early is the yellowing happening?
You can top dress with more mix half way through or use a bigger pot.
What ingredients are you using to brew your tea? I found molasses to induce some early yellowing.
Now a days I've been running my raw salt hydro formula in dwc. So I go full strength all the way through.
 

Sunny Organics

Well-Known Member
How early is the yellowing happening?
You can top dress with more mix half way through or use a bigger pot.
What ingredients are you using to brew your tea? I found molasses to induce some early yellowing.
Now a days I've been running my raw salt hydro formula in dwc. So I go full strength all the way through.
Yeah those were my guesses too. i used 5 gallon pots im now using 10 gallons. lots of fuckin molasses, i started feeding teas 2 weeks in between and everything went smooth from there. i did top dress as well at their early stages of veg and flower to give them that push, but i don't think that was an issue at all it was the pots for sure and prob the sugars. the sativas started yellowing around week 4 if im correct.
 
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banker

New Member
How early is the yellowing happening?
You can top dress with more mix half way through or use a bigger pot.
What ingredients are you using to brew your tea? I found molasses to induce some early yellowing.
Now a days I've been running my raw salt hydro formula in dwc. So I go full strength all the way through.
My SS soil is cooking and I noticed some white mold growing on the top is this something to worry about. What are the best ingredients and how much should I use to brew a tea for flowering.
 

sidewing

Well-Known Member
The white stuff is fine just mix the soil briefly before use. If you're gonna use tea just use an aact tea. In dwc I brew with ro water, a tablespoon of ewc, tablespoon of Alaska humus, and a tablespoon of sucanat (dehydrated molasses).. Usually brew with a couple gallons of water and I dump the extra onto my mother soil plants in veg. I keep my mother plants in soil because in dwc things can go wrong really fast if something happens.. I've had plants die in 36 hours. Soil is more forgiving and typically rapid death does not occur.

The raw salts are considered natural. It's hard to get a lot of things certified organic.. The main difference is soil amendments typically need to be broken down by bacteria in soil before they become available to the plant.. Raw salts are typically water soluble and fully readily available in their current form..
So essentially as far as the plant is concerned it's the same thing, it's just salts work immediately because they're in their broken down form.. Amendments need to be broken down.. But once their broken down, it's the same chemical makeup as the salt, the plant doesn't see a difference in the two. As long as your salt source is pure, it can actually be considered cleaner than organic soil..
I just like dwc because Its cleaner and easier to maintain because I don't have to lug and mix heavy bags of soil which hurt my back condition. Plus you're controlling everything that is going into the plant at the precise amounts that you want.

I don't log on this site. I keep a journal on another private sure that is invite only and I don't believe I have permission to invite. But I have a thread on here called "hydrobuddy" where I put the recipe I use in there.
 
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elkamino

Well-Known Member
I don't log on this site. I keep a journal on another private sure that is invite only and I don't believe I have permission to invite. But I have a thread on here called "hydrobuddy" where I put the recipe I use in there.
Thanks for sharing sidewing! I'll check the hydrobuddy thread but appreciate all you've shared here!:joint:
 

banker

New Member
The white stuff is fine just mix the soil briefly before use. If you're gonna use tea just use an aact tea. In dwc I brew with ro water, a tablespoon of ewc, tablespoon of Alaska humus, and a tablespoon of sucanat (dehydrated molasses).. Usually brew with a couple gallons of water and I dump the extra onto my mother soil plants in veg. I keep my mother plants in soil because in dwc things can go wrong really fast if something happens.. I've had plants die in 36 hours. Soil is more forgiving and typically rapid death does not occur.

The raw salts are considered natural. It's hard to get a lot of things certified organic.. The main difference is soil amendments typically need to be broken down by bacteria in soil before they become available to the plant.. Raw salts are typically water soluble and fully readily available in their current form..
So essentially as far as the plant is concerned it's the same thing, it's just salts work immediately because they're in their broken down form.. Amendments need to be broken down.. But once their broken down, it's the same chemical makeup as the salt, the plant doesn't see a difference in the two. As long as your salt source is pure, it can actually be considered cleaner than organic soil..
I just like dwc because Its cleaner and easier to maintain because I don't have to lug and mix heavy bags of soil which hurt my back condition. Plus you're controlling everything that is going into the plant at the precise amounts that you want.

I don't log on this site. I keep a journal on another private sure that is invite only and I don't believe I have permission to invite. But I have a thread on here called "hydrobuddy" where I put the recipe I use in there.
sidewing:
My SS has been cooking for 2 weeks and there are flies all over it. They don't look like Fungus Gnats,
they are yellowish and black with wings much smaller then their bodies. Do you know what they are and how to get rid of them. Once again thank you for all your help.

Banker
 

sidewing

Well-Known Member
Don't know what they are. You can try spraying them with azamax and putting the yellow sticky traps all around to trap them.
 

whitey78

Well-Known Member
sidewing:
My SS has been cooking for 2 weeks and there are flies all over it. They don't look like Fungus Gnats,
they are yellowish and black with wings much smaller then their bodies. Do you know what they are and how to get rid of them. Once again thank you for all your help.

Banker

I dont know if its been said or not but I use nemetodes on the regular when I'm mixing soil, especially with a new batch seeing all soil is usually blessed from where ever its been made, warehoused, and stored on retail store floors where they usually have half dead plants showing off their lights/tents/growing systems that are also usually covered in bugs along with whatever other growers track into the grow stores and/or nurseries with them.. so they usually come loaded with some kind of bugs... but the nemetodes seem to help the situation... If I get any kind of break out its usually right after a transplant and within a week they're no longer around once the adults die because the neme's kill the eggs or larvae before they fly... in my case anyhow, everyone has different issues... I dont know exactly what kind of bugs your talking about but most soil born bugs will succumb to the nemetodes as well as whats brought in with good compost and vermicompost...
 

Sunny Organics

Well-Known Member
I dont know if its been said or not but I use nemetodes on the regular when I'm mixing soil, especially with a new batch seeing all soil is usually blessed from where ever its been made, warehoused, and stored on retail store floors where they usually have half dead plants showing off their lights/tents/growing systems that are also usually covered in bugs along with whatever other growers track into the grow stores and/or nurseries with them.. so they usually come loaded with some kind of bugs... but the nemetodes seem to help the situation... If I get any kind of break out its usually right after a transplant and within a week they're no longer around once the adults die because the neme's kill the eggs or larvae before they fly... in my case anyhow, everyone has different issues... I dont know exactly what kind of bugs your talking about but most soil born bugs will succumb to the nemetodes as well as whats brought in with good compost and vermicompost...
wow i never thought of that, thanks man haha. cheers! :bigjoint:
 

jstro420

Member
QUOTE="budman678, post: 7785168, member: 419637"]FFOF usually has gnats....sux. im fucking with gnats right now[/QUOTE]
I'm on my first grow now using OF and def got gnats I figured its cause I'm a noob and been over watering have since been treating soil with DE food grade of course and mosquito bits and gnats are slowly dying off but def dit some damage to my girls
 

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banker

New Member
I got rid of all my gnats in my SS while it was cooking by putting a dish with apple cider vinegar and
a little dish washing soap. it was amazing the flies went right to it and died. The larva which are super small came out of the soil and right into the vinegar killed them dead. there were thousands upon thousands of larva. By eye they look like tiny hairs in the vinegar but if you look at them through a digital microscope you can see them clearly. You might try the vinegar and soap on the floor in a dish and spray a small amount right on the soil for the larva. Hope this helps it worked for me.
QUOTE="budman678, post: 7785168, member: 419637"]FFOF usually has gnats....sux. im fucking with gnats right now
I'm on my first grow now using OF and def got gnats I figured its cause I'm a noob and been over watering have since been treating soil with DE food grade of course and mosquito bits and gnats are slowly dying off but def dit some damage to my girls[/QUOTE]
 

jstro420

Member
I dont know about it choking out oxygen but over doing it with molasses will put to much magnesium into the mix... Then combine that with a cal/mag product, lime.... you get the point, you wanna stop any and all cal/mag, molasses etc... by the time your 2 weeks from estimated finish, if possible the last sugar application around day 45... I've never heard the thing about it causing lack of O2... but I imagine way way over doing it may cause some headaches.. as long as you stay within the 1TBS per gallon of water range and put a watering without it between uses, you'll be fine... You can apply compost teas every time but its not practical and from what I've read its not gonna provide them with anything more or whatever... I suggest taking it easy with the teas once you start getting into weeks 2-3-4 in 12/12 and stick with the watering only if you are using suggested pot fill amounts..... What I did by using 50% in the pot and applying teas was cause the food to last much longer and is definitely not what you want... This current round of girls I have going I had just enough SS to maybe put an inch of SS on the bottom of each pot so I used compost teas every 3rd watering and when they started fading a little to hard, every other watering which kept them from fading a little to early, 1 still faded a little to quick and my yield is gonna hurt from it but it will be primo smoke thats for sure, but having to much is even worse honestly I say after my last round where I used to much... Having them go to long is gonna make the smoke taste like shit, and more than likely you'll be into weeks 10 and 11 on an 8 week strain before you finally say screw it and chop them anyway which is literally what I did last time.. Once the end of life nanner factory's went to work I chopped even though they werent "done"...

Hygrozyme.... Its ok... I cant say its something I would spend that kind of $ on anymore... I'd have to see some actual data to prove it does something aside from the "secret sauce" label on it, I know it does something because if you keep applying it past week 6 in 12/12 your plants will never finish so it does assist in breaking down whatever it breaks down... But can it justify $35 a liter... not really, I dont think so.. I have used it in the past, I actually used a bottle not to long ago but I didnt really see anything special going on to warrant continued use of it... My roots seem to look the same when they're dead if I used it or not... I'd say if your serious about using it, and I said this to someone here yesterday, do a side by side with it... see if you can see a difference on 2 plants from clone that otherwise are the same... that'll tell you everything... theres actually a pretty decent home grower article on THCfarmer (I think his name was "bayarea") where a commercial soil grower did some testing with a whole slew of bottled organic nutrients with and without hygrozyme, down to stem weight and circumference etc..... however I have yet to see anything done with supersoil or any just add water type of growing and hygrozyme.... I think most growers are thinking that the point of going to a "just add water" type of grow is to kinda leave the bottled shit alone..

Endo/ecto products like oregonism xl are getting wasted if you are putting it in your teas from the beginning, you can get some use out of it if you put it in your tea right before applying it but myco products arent gonna survive without live roots to attach to... mycorrhizae is the relationship between fungi and roots by definition. I'm not sure if oregonism is soluble, if it is I'd suggest putting it in water and applying it rather than putting it in a tea where its probably gonna become food.... Its like burning $ if you are brewing it in a tea and it only needs to be applied once at transplant and once or twice more throughout the life cycle of a plant...

OG mix... I just meant subs original/most recent mix... Nothing special thats all. I've just got into the supersoil myself my past few go rounds and I have not tried any others, for now I just wanna get a base down and work with a few of the same strains for a bit slowly working in a couple here and there... Since I've started growing, my methods and all that have been in constant change, when your constantly adjusting without a baseline, your never gonna know whats better, worse, or just the same... Thats how I feel anyhow, or how I started to feel as of recently...

As far as the strapped being cheaper... I have no idea but I'm thinking along the lines of it being whipped senseless with some water to thin it out... Its a sugar and derived from black strap molasses, thats the only info on the label... I havent had any of my teas go anaerobic on me yet which is what happens when there isnt enough sugar to keep the good bene's reproducing, once the sugars run out the bad bene's start eating the good ones and the tea will start to smell like sewage... and you'll know if you apply one thats for sure.. But if it doesnt smell sweet or earthy, and starts to get a shitty stink to it, throw it out...
I have a question if you wouldn't mind answering. for the humic its powder form correct? And would it be the humaplex? I'm looking and have most on ebay decent priced and free shipping but they only have granular humic red box it also shows acidic in blue box has ore in it looks like blueberrys on the box. If anyone can help thanks. I'm using kindsoil.com for my ss but wanted to try subcools method out but costs upfront I can't afford right now this will run close to $220 (thanks btw sidewing for this very valuable and informative thread much appreciation!!!) I'm a noob trying to grow my own meds. I bet for everything .subcools would be probably well over $500. I got pic of my frist grow still in veg very bushy but am just getting rid of gnats I used FFOF n happy frog for topsoil won't do that again lol.
 

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jstro420

Member
I got rid of all my gnats in my SS while it was cooking by putting a dish with apple cider vinegar and
a little dish washing soap. it was amazing the flies went right to it and died. The larva which are super small came out of the soil and right into the vinegar killed them dead. there were thousands upon thousands of larva. By eye they look like tiny hairs in the vinegar but if you look at them through a digital microscope you can see them clearly. You might try the vinegar and soap on the floor in a dish and spray a small amount right on the soil for the larva. Hope this helps it worked for me.

I'm on my first grow now using OF and def got gnats I figured its cause I'm a noob and been over watering have since been treating soil with DE food grade of course and mosquito bits and gnats are slowly dying off but def dit some damage to my girls
[/QUOTE]
Thank you very much for the reply I'll def give that a try right on my plant soil if they decide to live thro the diatomacious earth and mosquito bits!!!!
 

jstro420

Member
ta2drvost: 9300824 said:
Here are a few from last weekend.
They all look amazing!!! I just bought everything for this except waiting on fish bone meal (shop was out) yea my intown grow shop has literally everything and he's a very nice guy kinda fckn awesome lol only thing I had to get that was different was potassium sulfate instead of 0-0-50 I got DTE'S 0-0-22 so my question is if anyone wouldn't mind helping me out should I double the amazing and end up with a 44? Close enough to the 50 right? I know I'm a noob I just want to make my own soil and grow my meds n not hav to use snake oils that could possibly hurt me or ppl I donate to thanks for your reply anyone!!!!!! I put up a pic of current first grow in veg bout 1mnth n 1week in most recent is in my other comments lol
 

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jstro420

Member
Thanks bro. I have also heard greensand takes a while to break down. I would still think it must have some benefit along the way. Why else would Roots Organic put it in their soil?

I read neem meal has small bit of NPK, all the micros and some trace elements. Helps roots and foliage. Supposed to help against root rot, powdery mildew, gnats and more. I would be happy if it just helped with the gnats.
I know greensand Is in at the very least one of the items I bought and it is a DTE brand well most of the stuff is all DTE anyhow
 

jstro420

Member
[QUOTE="sidewing, post: 9742600, member: 2030]heres a couple of pics of phantom cookies (phantom = gdp x cherry pie.. and the cookies is: bay 11 x platinum cookies). this strain was popped from seed that i bought from the GDP collective in the bay area. it is my new favorite strain. it retains the smell of phantom, taste almost like phantom but with a touch of the og/sour from platinum and a little more sweetness from the bay 11 and cherry pie (ive had all these strains individually so i know what traits they carry). it yields better than blue dream (which eveyrone knows is a high yield) and is almost all bud with very little leaves. frosty as all hell and rock hard dense as can be. the high is pretty clear, it can get intense on heavy use but its great daytime smoke. also useful for evening smoke, i reserve something else for right before bed though. i never thought i'd find a strain i liked more than kens GDP.. but this one is right there with it.
View attachment 2867312
above is the top
View attachment 2867313
the above is right below the top (the top on the first pic is at the very top of this pic)
View attachment 2867314
heres some first round cut outdoor of girls scout cookie s1. it was grown with just hose water in the ground, where i dump my old soil.

to answer some questions that were on the past few pages:

i am still using rice hulls (for silica and also better drainage). neem also, and since using neem ive noticed it handles everything gone wrong in the garden. i had some mold/fungus growth on the bottom of the cups and on the soil. hit it with neem and sprinkled some neem around the base on the water saucer.. gone within a week. i had some mushroom spores in my bagged soil that started growing on the vegging plants. neem killed em. fungus gnats i do see 1 or 2 here and there. but the neem keeps them WAY under control. i had some larvae (maybe thrips?) on the bottom of some leaves in veg, i gave the plants neem as a top dressing and sprayed the leaves with azamax, one time.. they are gone now.

i did want to note to anyone using bottled silica to be careful because they tend to be high in salt content and can cause ph issues and lockout issues if used too frequently. i'd just use rice hulls. they are cheaper and work just as well.

i never ph my water.. ever, not even in my ez cloner. my tap water is hard too. ph ranges from 8.5 to 9. and over 200ppm

i dont use any bottled nutrients anymore. straight tap water all through flower.. its easier. i dont have as much time in my schedule so i did it for convenience at first, but results are still great so ill stick with it.

soil mix is final, no reason to change it anymore, its perfect for me. i just wish i didnt have to mix it haha.

here is the final soil mix:

FLOWERING SOIL RECIPE
(cook moist soil in covered garbage can for 1 month minimum)



  • 2 large bags - roots natural and organic soil large bag (1.5)
  • 1.5 cu - EB Earth Worm Castings
  • 16 red cups (about 1kg) – organic rice hulls
  • 420g fish bone meal (down to earth 3-16-0)
  • 420g bat guano (happy frog 0-5-0)
  • 420g blood meal (down to earth 12-0-0)
  • 100g neem seed meal (down to earth)
  • 80g potassium sulfate (0-0-50)


  • 200g ancient forest alaska humus (general organics)
  • 200g xtreme mycorrhizal granules
  • 200g azomite


  • 100g sea kelp (algamin 1-0-2)
  • 70g dolomite lime (30% cal 3% mg or 75/12)
  • 50g alfalfa meal (down to earth 2.5-1-1)


  • 20g humic acid powder (down to earth)
  • 8g Epsom salt

then i usually put aprox 8 tablespoons of neem as a top dressing when i move them into flower, mostly for gnat prevention. doesnt have to be exact, just a dusting across the top layer.

oh and also i did want to note its important to not use pot size too small if you want to maximize your results and the soil performance. i think i use 10gal pots, its been so long since i bought them. basically what subcool recommended in his mix is what i use (i think it was #7 nursery pots which were 10gal pots)[/QUOTE]
Hello sidewing and THANK YOU!!!! I do have 2 questions if you wouldn't mind helping me complete I got the DTE brand potassium sulfate 0-0-22 should I double the recommended amount as it calls for 0-0-50? Also I got garden lime and dnt have a pic of it on me but will post it asap n was wondering if you could tell me if it will work? Thank you for your time and your knowledge sidewing very appreciated!!!!!!!
 
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