sharing my modified subcool super soil recipe

MongolianMonkeyNuts

Well-Known Member
in your first post of this thread, back in ... May 8th, 2012, (goddamn!) you listed the measurement of Epsom Salts at 8grams instead of Subcools orginal 45grams. was that a typo? if not, why did you greatly reduce the Epsom Salts?
 

sidewing

Well-Known Member
well, the original recipe on page one is a smaller batch i believe. only 2 bags of soil. i think the subcool is 8 bags? cant remember..

but here is the latest revised version that i was running:

1 large bag - roots natural and organic soil large bag (1.5)
half of 1.5 cu - EB Earth Worm Castings
8 red cups – organic rice hulls
200g fish bone meal (down to earth 3-16-0)
200g bat guano (happy frog 0-5-0)
200g blood meal (down to earth 12-0-0)
50g neem seed meal (down to earth)
40g potassium sulfate (0-0-50)
100g azomite
I've done a lot of learning about plants, salts, and various other things related to growing. so here's my opinion as of today.

epsom salt, which is magnesium sulfate, (a completely water soluble form of just magnesium and sulfur), is not needed in the soil mix.

you're using a complete base soil in roots original... epsom salt being completely water soluble is available immediately and does nothing at all for long term release. the base soil alone has enough magnesium and sulfur and no more is needed.. if some was needed down the road it would be long gone from the epsom salt added in the mix by the time that time came.

I don't even think the potassium sulfate is needed honestly.. now, TODAY, knowing what I know now, I'd run something like this:
1 bag roots organic, 1 cup fish bone meal, 1 cup bat guano (high p, such as happy frog, or any high p guano that is fine texture, not pellets), 1 cup blood meal, and 1 cup of azomite... then just give them a microbial tea once a week brewed with EWC, Alaska Humus (ancient forest), like a large pinch of each is good. and a little sucanat (like 1 tsp per 2 gallons of water).

that's what I'd use. it'll get the job done.

but to simply answer your question about epsom salt.. magnesium and sulfur addition isnt really doing anything at the beginning of flower.. it'd be most beneficial if at all at the end of flower. both magnesium and sulfur help improve flavor, but you can easily throw off the nutrient ratio balance using a fully soluble raw salt such as epsom salt. and that'd be counter productive.

I think subcool's mix he based it off someone elses.. and I think he just sort of did a gumbo mix of ingredients that a lot of people use, and it worked for him so that's what he uses.. it doesn't mean that everything is necessary..

in my opinion roots original ALONE, can carry the plant at least through the first month of flower in a large 7gal pot. adding a little extra that breaks down slowly will carry it the rest..
 

MongolianMonkeyNuts

Well-Known Member
wow. dude. thanks a lot for replying to such an old post. Also, can you overcook a super soil? I know it calls for a 30 day cook off, but what if you leave it longer, like the entire summer?
 

sidewing

Well-Known Member
no, the longer you cook it the more stuff breaks down and becomes available. all soil amendments are not immediately available for the plant to use, they need to be broken down by soil bacteria first. that's what the cooking does. so it'll work better and you'll have less chance of burning your plants like you can possibly do if you overapply without 'cooking'. I've personally used my mix with no cook before in a pinch and everything was fine for a mature well rooted plant. but 30 days is just a ball park figure. soil is not like hydro, ball park figures are all that matters.. nothing needs to be precise unless you're using raw salts that are immediately available and water soluble.. like epsom salt for example.
 

sidewing

Well-Known Member
certain things take longer than others. finely ground guano can be available in a week or less. and get used up within a couple weeks. pellet guano takes longer to break and and lasts longer. bone meals take longer to break down.. they are usually the slow release sources that the plant uses mid to late in flower.
 

Organja

Well-Known Member
This is a great thread! It should be re awoken with what we have above, new ideas on an old topic. Time has passed, things have evolved, and recipes change.

I am working on my own super soil using down to earth products. I am planning to use their bio-live and AACT in a 10 gallon, cover-cropped super soil!

Good work here side-wing, thanks for sharing and revisiting an old topic!

What AACT are you using?
 

sidewing

Well-Known Member
I just use ewc and Alaska humus. It's cheap and has all the diversity you need. A large pinch of each, 4 gallons of ro water, and 2tsp of sucanat. Then bubbled for 24-36 hours.

That's if it's going in soil. If it needs to be clean of clumps and debris I'll use a half tsp of mycogrow soluble powder in place of the ewc/humus.
 

sidewing

Well-Known Member
I'm a fan of dte products also. Great company. Now I'm growing under t5 with a 2 foot plastic planter that I put 4 plants per container. And I just use roots original, then top dress with a half cup of each per bed of high p bat guano, blood meal, fish bone meal, kelp, alfalfa meal, and 1 cup of azomite.

I retired the high intensity lights and I'm strictly a personal grower now. I only smoke like a gram a week. So if I harvest an ounce a month, that's plenty
 

Organja

Well-Known Member
I'm a fan of dte products also. Great company. Now I'm growing under t5 with a 2 foot plastic planter that I put 4 plants per container. And I just use roots original, then top dress with a half cup of each per bed of high p bat guano, blood meal, fish bone meal, kelp, alfalfa meal, and 1 cup of azomite.

I retired the high intensity lights and I'm strictly a personal grower now. I only smoke like a gram a week. So if I harvest an ounce a month, that's plenty
Sounds legit man! Why not mix the bone, kelp, azo, and alfalfa into the soil to begin with? Most of them need a bit of break down time. Blood and guano are more readily avail. Not knocking your style! Do what works for you! I just like discussions! It's what I do!

Are you familiar with kelplex from DTE? .5-0-17? Water soluble kelp and pot ash.
 

sidewing

Well-Known Member
No I'll have to look into it.

The roots organic has enough alone to carry them for a month. The additives are for the final month of flower.

I know the bone meals take a while, the others in my opinion don't take longer than a week or so
 

banker

New Member
No I'll have to look into it.

The roots organic has enough alone to carry them for a month. The additives are for the final month of flower.

I know the bone meals take a while, the others in my opinion don't take longer than a week or so
No I'll have to look into it.

The roots organic has enough alone to carry them for a month. The additives are for the final month of flower.

I know the bone meals take a while, the others in my opinion don't take longer than a week or so
Sidewing, is your original recipe good for autoflowers and how much water do you use to cook it.
 

dbossmanfl01

Active Member
heres a couple of pics of phantom cookies (phantom = gdp x cherry pie.. and the cookies is: bay 11 x platinum cookies). this strain was popped from seed that i bought from the GDP collective in the bay area. it is my new favorite strain. it retains the smell of phantom, taste almost like phantom but with a touch of the og/sour from platinum and a little more sweetness from the bay 11 and cherry pie (ive had all these strains individually so i know what traits they carry). it yields better than blue dream (which eveyrone knows is a high yield) and is almost all bud with very little leaves. frosty as all hell and rock hard dense as can be. the high is pretty clear, it can get intense on heavy use but its great daytime smoke. also useful for evening smoke, i reserve something else for right before bed though. i never thought i'd find a strain i liked more than kens GDP.. but this one is right there with it.
View attachment 2867312
above is the top
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the above is right below the top (the top on the first pic is at the very top of this pic)
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heres some first round cut outdoor of girls scout cookie s1. it was grown with just hose water in the ground, where i dump my old soil.

to answer some questions that were on the past few pages:

i am still using rice hulls (for silica and also better drainage). neem also, and since using neem ive noticed it handles everything gone wrong in the garden. i had some mold/fungus growth on the bottom of the cups and on the soil. hit it with neem and sprinkled some neem around the base on the water saucer.. gone within a week. i had some mushroom spores in my bagged soil that started growing on the vegging plants. neem killed em. fungus gnats i do see 1 or 2 here and there. but the neem keeps them WAY under control. i had some larvae (maybe thrips?) on the bottom of some leaves in veg, i gave the plants neem as a top dressing and sprayed the leaves with azamax, one time.. they are gone now.

i did want to note to anyone using bottled silica to be careful because they tend to be high in salt content and can cause ph issues and lockout issues if used too frequently. i'd just use rice hulls. they are cheaper and work just as well.

i never ph my water.. ever, not even in my ez cloner. my tap water is hard too. ph ranges from 8.5 to 9. and over 200ppm

i dont use any bottled nutrients anymore. straight tap water all through flower.. its easier. i dont have as much time in my schedule so i did it for convenience at first, but results are still great so ill stick with it.

soil mix is final, no reason to change it anymore, its perfect for me. i just wish i didnt have to mix it haha.

here is the final soil mix:

FLOWERING SOIL RECIPE
(cook moist soil in covered garbage can for 1 month minimum)



  • 2 large bags - roots natural and organic soil large bag (1.5)
  • 1.5 cu - EB Earth Worm Castings
  • 16 red cups (about 1kg) – organic rice hulls
  • 420g fish bone meal (down to earth 3-16-0)
  • 420g bat guano (happy frog 0-5-0)
  • 420g blood meal (down to earth 12-0-0)
  • 100g neem seed meal (down to earth)
  • 80g potassium sulfate (0-0-50)


  • 200g ancient forest alaska humus (general organics)
  • 200g xtreme mycorrhizal granules
  • 200g azomite


  • 100g sea kelp (algamin 1-0-2)
  • 70g dolomite lime (30% cal 3% mg or 75/12)
  • 50g alfalfa meal (down to earth 2.5-1-1)


  • 20g humic acid powder (down to earth)
  • 8g Epsom salt

then i usually put aprox 8 tablespoons of neem as a top dressing when i move them into flower, mostly for gnat prevention. doesnt have to be exact, just a dusting across the top layer.

oh and also i did want to note its important to not use pot size too small if you want to maximize your results and the soil performance. i think i use 10gal pots, its been so long since i bought them. basically what subcool recommended in his mix is what i use (i think it was #7 nursery pots which were 10gal pots)
Hey how are you was wondering the soil you are using whats the name of it...also the ingredient used whats the brand i mto try a grow using super soil thanks...
 

dbossmanfl01

Active Member
Wow, really? It must be the Roots Organics "707". That is 3 c.f. Description says less perlite and pumice, so greater water holding capacity. I would be careful with that.

The Roots Organics "natural & organic" is the version used in the recipe on page 1 of this thread. Unless I`m mistaken, the biggest bag available is 1.5 c.f.

I like a loose, easy drain soil myself. I feel it lets the roots grow and breathe better. I may have to water more often, but I never worry about soggy water logged roots. It all just comes down to personal preference, and what`s available. Good luck either way bro. Keep us posted on how it goes.
Question are we adding these amendments to this roots organic natural
...it has alot of stuff in it do we still put the ingrediants in it still....
 

banker

New Member
The latest revision is at the top of this page.
sidewing:
I live in a hot humid state can I cook my super soil outside in a covered plastic container or should I leave it inside.

you added neem seed meal to your new recipe, what does that do for the soil.
 
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sidewing

Well-Known Member
Question are we adding these amendments to this roots organic natural
...it has alot of stuff in it do we still put the ingrediants in it still....
Yes, the purpose is to give it enough to carry through at least 2 months of flower with no deficiencies. Roots original will carry it for a month at best.

sidewing:
I live in a hot humid state can I cook my super soil outside in a covered plastic container or should I leave it inside.

you added neem seed meal to your new recipe, what does that do for the soil.
Yes that's how I do mine, outside works best.
Neem will help protect your soil from pests (just like neem oil sprayed on plants). It also adds some diversity to the microbial aspect.

If you want to run with a bare minimum mix which is fine just add fish bone meal, high p guano, blood meal, and azomite. The base soil has enough for the first month alone. Fish bone meal adding long release phosphorus and a little nitrogen, high p guano is faster acting phosphorus and also used up faster for the first month of flower, blood meal is slow release nitrogen for the 2nd month of flower, and azomite is just awesome stuff that supplies everything else, all the micro nutrients.. You can even top dress with a little more azomite going into the 2nd month if you want.
 

banker

New Member
Yes, the purpose is to give it enough to carry through at least 2 months of flower with no deficiencies. Roots original will carry it for a month at best.


Yes that's how I do mine, outside works best.
Neem will help protect your soil from pests (just like neem oil sprayed on plants). It also adds some diversity to the microbial aspect.

If you want to run with a bare minimum mix which is fine just add fish bone meal, high p guano, blood meal, and azomite. The base soil has enough for the first month alone. Fish bone meal adding long release phosphorus and a little nitrogen, high p guano is faster acting phosphorus and also used up faster for the first month of flower, blood meal is slow release nitrogen for the 2nd month of flower, and azomite is just awesome stuff that supplies everything else, all the micro nutrients.. You can even top dress with a little more azomite going into the 2nd month if you want.
I'm growing auto's from start to finish in 3 gal fabric pots under 14 (23 watt cfl's) How much SS should I use for each pot.
Thanks for all your help. Banker
 

sidewing

Well-Known Member
Fill it up. It might be a little hot for a freshly sprouted seed, so start the seed in plain roots originals then transplant at least a couple weeks after sprout
 

banker

New Member
Fill it up. It might be a little hot for a freshly sprouted seed, so start the seed in plain roots originals then transplant at least a couple weeks after sprout
Everything I've read about autoflower cannabis says, not to transplant because of the short lifespan.
auto's flower in about 21 days and the stress of transplanting might stunt them. You know more about growing then me, I just wanted to double check.
 
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