# Does anyone want to receive Spiritual Enlightenment?



## New Age United (Apr 14, 2013)

Ok so it's real late where I'm at and I'm about to go to bed, but real serious, does anybody out there want to receive Spiritual Enlightnement, and by this I mean does anyone want to live in complete Peace in Paradise. Now keep in mind that I haven't done any psychadelics in a long time lmfao, I haven't even smoked a j in quite awhile, but I gaurantee you, I can bring you into the promised land lmfao. It might seem like a practical joke but trust me I can do it. So if anyone's interested in this shit let me know.


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## Padawanbater2 (Apr 14, 2013)

I'm interested, how am I to receive this spiritual enlightenment?


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## Beefbisquit (Apr 14, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Ok so it's real late where I'm at and I'm about to go to bed, but real serious,* does anybody out there want to receive Spiritual Enlightnement,* and by this I mean does anyone want to live in complete Peace in Paradise. Now keep in mind that I haven't done any psychadelics in a long time lmfao, I haven't even smoked a j in quite awhile, but I gaurantee you, I can bring you into the promised land lmfao. It might seem like a practical joke but trust me I can do it. So if anyone's interested in this shit let me know.


If this somehow invloves FinShaggy, I'm out... lol


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## Chartreuse Spruce (Apr 14, 2013)

I'm interested in what you have to say about it.


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## Natural Gas (Apr 14, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Ok so it's real late where I'm at and I'm about to go to bed, but real serious, does anybody out there want to receive Spiritual Enlightnement, and by this I mean does anyone want to live in complete Peace in Paradise. Now keep in mind that I haven't done any psychadelics in a long time lmfao, I haven't even smoked a j in quite awhile, but I gaurantee you, I can bring you into the promised land lmfao. It might seem like a practical joke but trust me I can do it. So if anyone's interested in this shit let me know.


All through recorded history humanity has been awaiting your arrival...Sorry to read you are further delayed because it is past your bedtime...FWIW


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 14, 2013)

We are all awaiting your instructions young master.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Apr 14, 2013)

enlighten me oh enlightened one


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## Heisenberg (Apr 14, 2013)

[video=youtube;fu-fVwNrMzU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu-fVwNrMzU[/video]


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## Chartreuse Spruce (Apr 14, 2013)

Well, if that guy don't come back, I'm going to teach it! lol


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## mudminer (Apr 14, 2013)

no. if he dont come back we are all doomed. hes the one. DOOMED I TELL YA! fuckin tease.


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## New Age United (Apr 14, 2013)

LMAO, ok, bare with me, I am no prophet, and I wouldn't exactly call myself Enlightened, I still have quite the ego lol!!! I am not trying to exalt myself here this is some very practical stuff and it has helped many many people, so that's why I asked. That actually is a good vid heisenburg, ya I don't believe in law of attraction and have absolutely no interest in the age of aquarious and all that crap, I don't identify as anything, all things are fleeting. What I can do is give you a glimpse of Enlightenment, and to anybody who has already begun to Awaken I can accelerate your Enlightenment. Ok it's about to get real deep and spiritual up in here, this is gonna be long so if you're not interested in it then just leave the page, this I know for certain, it is really not important, yes the survival of humanity is dependent on Awakening, but I have very good news, even the survival of humanity itself is not important, death is nothing to be afraid of, it is very peaceful, like sleep.

Read very slowly and pay very careful "Attention" to what is being said

I am not a prophet, "prophet" is just a word, I am the way and the Truth and Life, I am the Light of the world and so are you, ok now let's be honest, I am not the way not nearly, like I said I still have quite the ego, I'm a work in progress so bare with me lmao, what you have to realize is that this is not about me, it is about you, "everything that I have told you is not for me but for you yourself" Muhammad, "If I err, I err only against my own Soul, for in the Light I know Allah's will as my own will" Muhammad, ya it's not easy to control your ego, trust me it's hard. Yes Muhammad was a warrior, what you have to realize is that good and evil do not exist, the Torah begins with the warning "do not eat from tree of the knowledge of good and evil", please believe me when I tell you that is one very bad apple, they are just perspectives in your mind but they have the power to torment your Soul.

I will give you an eye opener, the big bang is not actually where the universe begins, there is no actual thing &#8220;Time&#8221;. Time is the illusion created by the motion of Energy. The space-time continuum(Space bending in on itself and creating the illusion of light in the Quarks-boson) actually begins at the base particle(Quarks-boson). The source of all Life Energy is really nothing more than Space bending in on itself(the four forces of physics) and creating the motion of time, which absolutely undeniably is being performed by a higher conscious that is Aware and Alive. If you work your way up from the Quarks-boson you will eventually discover that you are the Immortal Light of God expressing itself in Space-time at this very moment. 

Religion, like all of the perspectives and ideas in your mind are false, but the Truth to which the prophets were pointing to remains as solid as it will always be. "What is Truth" asks the Pilate to Jesus just before the crucifixion, but Jesus doesn't answer the question, he just stands there unwavering. Perhaps Jesus realizes that the Truth is not an answer to a question but is something much bigger. If you want to know the Truth all you have to do is open your eyes. What is Real, what is True? When all of the thoughts and emotions in your Soul stop, what is left unwavering, You, Awareness, the Light, and what do you behold, the Earth is not hell, it is actually a very peaceful Paradise, it is Heaven indeed Jesus, such a Glorious Kingdom is Eternity. 

Time is an illusion but the Earth is very Real, that is true Enlightenment, and if you do not understand the Truth then you are no where near Wise, but that's okay because in Truth nothing is important, not even wisdom. 

If you are attached to ideas and ideologies such as God and religion you should let go of that attachment if you truly want to attain Enlightenment, the Dali Lama actually said recently that now is the time for humanity to abandon religion, the Dali Lama is very Enlightened. 

Always be Aware of Space - The Space in the Present Moment, the Eternal Sea, that which is not fleeting
Time is an illusion but the Earth is very Real - Just open your eyes
All things come and go but the Light remains Eternal - You are literally Immortal, untouched by time, you are the Light

If you understand this then you are now in Paradise, welcome to Eternity, welcome to the Kingdom of Heaven, it is your home and you will never leave it, you are Eternal Life and you will always be Eternal Life, untouched by time, you are the container of all Space-Time, you are what allows the universe to exist, you are as much God/Goddess as words could ever say. 

If you want to learn more about this I would highly recommend the book "A New Earth" by Eckhart Tolle, if you are suffering and you need help with it you can feel free to contact me. 

Ok now that's enough I hate how serious I get when I talk about this stuff lol!!!

I will give you this though, this seems to help people, Magnum Opus is a lifelong journey, it is not something that just happens it has to evolve. The Homeric hymn dedicated to hermes states that he is the bringer of knowledge from the Immortal world to the Mortal world, judging by the vast amount of Truth and Wisdom portrayed in both the Illiad and the Odyssey, two of the first recorded texts in western history, it is my assumption that Homer himself is the original author of the tablet.

The Philosophers Stone
The Emerald Tablet by Hermes

1: This is the Truth, the entire Truth, the absence of illusion

2: As above so below, and as below so above, with this balance alone can you truly Love the world, for the worker of all wonders is Space

3: All things exist in and emanate from Love which is the ultimate Cause, and as all things are from the One, by means of the meditation of the One, thus all things were born from the One, by means of adaptation, and all things sprang from this essence through a single projection, how marvelous is its work, it is the principle part of the world and its custodian

4: The Sun is your Father the Moon is your Mother

5: The wind carried you in her belly; the Earth nourished you and guarded you

6: You are the Father/Mother of all things; perfect is the power that reveals the Light

6a: Love is the cause of all perfection; the Eternal will is contained in you

7: On Earth your power is perfected

7a: It is a fire that became our earth, separate the Earth from the fire, the densest from the faintest, and you shall adhere more to that which is subtle than that which is coarse, that which is Light than that which is dark, through care and wisdom

8: Rise above the world and art in Heaven, extract the Light from the Eternal Sea and be here on Earth containing the power of the Heavens above and the Earth below for you are the purest Light, therefore the darkness flees from you

9: The world will be illuminated and confusion will fly from you, thus you will have the Glory of the world, regardless of an abject fate

10: It is power, strong with the strength of all power, for it will penetrate all mysteries and dispel all ignorance, the mortal soul will flee and the Heavens, and the Sky and the entire Earth will be known as it truly exists

11: This was the means of the creation of the world; the structure of the microcosm is in accordance with the structure of the macrocosm

12: And from it are born wonderful adaptations, of which the way is given here

13: That is why I have been called Hermes Tristmegistus, having the three elements of all Wisdom: logic, conscience and the Immortal Truth

14: Thus ends the revelation of the work of the Cosmos, the work of the Sun and the Moon, and the wind and the Earth

The Eternal will is Love, not the sappy emotional Love, the Love of which I speak is a very light and easy thing, it should take an effort that is not there to hold it back, there is no seriousness in Paradise, life is very easy, effortless, you are just making it hard on your self. 

The one on his left spat at him and cursed his name, at once a crow swept down and plucked out both his eyes, the one on his right said I accept thee, may I enter the Kingdom with you, and Jesus said, then come and dine with me in Paradise. That is the choice that is given to all, whoever denies Eternal Life will suffer blindly, whoever accepts Eternal Life will live in Peace in Paradise. Forgive them father for they know not what they do, that is true Love, unconditional, even in the face of his death, now I gotta be honest I don't know if I will ever be capapable of such Love, but I do know this, that guy knew what he was saying.

Peace, Bliss, laughter and Love
Michael


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## Chartreuse Spruce (Apr 14, 2013)

Yes! The Emerald Tablets. I found myself speaking the chants trying to gain access to the hall of halls! The halls of Amenti. I felt after a while like I was maybe getting closer to the dark rather than the light. I think that perhaps Thoth built the Great Pyramid. With all that you said above, assuming that you know that all this is the Truth the light and the way, are you aware of all pyramid facts and know of its previous in history as a machine? And I don't mean what we have been told by Egyptologist. Thanks for posting all of that.


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## New Age United (Apr 14, 2013)

I am aware of the perfect placement of the Cosmos, if that's what you are getting at Chartreuse, how the pyramids are calculators for cosmological events such as the age of aquarius, I don't know quite what you mean by it being a machine is that what you mean, perhaps Thoth was involved in its construction but I don't think he built it himself. It's no problem talking about this stuff if you are interested in it. Sometimes you have to go into the darkness before you can assend into the Light.


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## tyler.durden (Apr 14, 2013)

Hey, OP! I love your enlightened avatar. Once I saw that, I just knew you had some answers


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## New Age United (Apr 14, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Hey, OP! I love your enlightened avatar. Once I saw that, I just knew you had some answers


LMFAO, don't be too serious bro, it will kill ya


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## yellowpackTOPman (Apr 14, 2013)

hey man i think i want to become more knowledgable of this enlightement, i feel my life is almost to fall apart. today i was almost going to start walking from new mexico to california. because i need to leave my house


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## yellowpackTOPman (Apr 14, 2013)

New Age you there ?


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## Beefbisquit (Apr 14, 2013)

He can't hear you. He's on the Astral Plane.


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## New Age United (Apr 14, 2013)

Ya Topman I'll talk to ya about it, gotta head out right now, but will def talk to ya about, think it will help ya a bunch.


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## yellowpackTOPman (Apr 14, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Ya Topman I'll talk to ya about it, gotta head out right now, but will def talk to ya about, think it will help ya a bunch.


alright thanks man, i think i do need it because, my family starts arguements about me and me not having a door knob, or me being afraid of spiders. i think if i went up to my dad and said, the word, "man" he would probably start arguing with me, i really need to leave my house. i cant live here any longer. someone help.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 14, 2013)

> If you are attached to ideas and ideologies such as God and religion you should let go of that attachment if you truly want to attain Enlightenment


It seems as if you, yourself, are attached to a certain idea of enlightenment, or an idea of how to be saved. This is contradictory to your thinking. Talk about ego... you are the one regurgitating your egotistical opinion of how to achieve enlightenment, and you are doing a shitty job of it... we need instructions, exact, to the point, without contradictions and doubt, and you provide us with nothing of that sort. 




> If you understand this then you are now in Paradise, welcome to Eternity, welcome to the Kingdom of Heaven, it is your home and you will never leave it, you are Eternal Life and you will always be Eternal Life, untouched by time, you are the container of all Space-Time, you are what allows the universe to exist, you are as much God/Goddess as words could ever say.


I wonder what the hundreds of thousands of starving children and parents in 3rd country regions around the world would have to say to that...

To me, that sounds very unkind, and tediously disgusting, especially taking into consideration the pain and suffering of half of the worlds population around this miniscule planet.





It's easy to spout unproven ideas and opinions when you aren't starving to death or struggling to survive... when your every moment isn't concentrating on survival... but you wouldn't have any idea of how that feels, and neither do i. _*WE HAVE THE FUCKING INTERNET.*_


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## Chartreuse Spruce (Apr 14, 2013)

yellowpackTOPman said:


> hey man i think i want to become more knowledgable of this enlightement, i feel my life is almost to fall apart. today i was almost going to start walking from new mexico to california. because i need to leave my house


are you ok?


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## Chartreuse Spruce (Apr 14, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> It seems as if you, yourself, are attached to a certain idea of enlightenment, or an idea of how to be saved. This is contradictory to your thinking. Talk about ego... you are the one regurgitating your egotistical opinion of how to achieve enlightenment, and you are doing a shitty job of it... we need instructions, exact, to the point, without contradictions and doubt, and you provide us with nothing of that sort.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No. He is on the right track. There's more to the enlightenment part. I feel a whole other side to the meaning and the story.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 14, 2013)

Chartreuse Spruce said:


> No. He is on the right track. There's more to the enlightenment part. I feel a whole other side to the meaning and the story.


This explains nothing to me but your desperation that your beliefs and ideas be true... when the possibility will always exist that you, my friend, may be wrong about what you think is right, which is the exact case in every human animal on the planet.

The hardest thing for any human animal to accept, is that we may be wrong... lol


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## yellowpackTOPman (Apr 14, 2013)

Chartreuse Spruce said:


> are you ok?


na man i need help, i really do. if im thinking that i can walk from new mexico to california, dont you think that sounds like a person who is not ok.


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## Chartreuse Spruce (Apr 14, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> This explains nothing to me but your desperation that your beliefs and ideas be true... when the possibility will always exist that you, my friend, may be wrong about what you think is right, which is the exact case in every human animal on the planet.
> 
> The hardest thing for any human animal to accept, is that we may be wrong... lol


 I called you mean in that other post before and got deleted. Case and point. I guess she deleted me because I said to get your head out of your ass. It was quick and flip and funny. I didn't think it was worth of delete but whatever-not my call. If you don't like what I say why not take your negativity somewhere else. If you can't say something nice, start a thread where all you do is put other's post that you don't like into the gutter. Maybe that will make you feel better about yourself.


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## sunni (Apr 14, 2013)

Chartreuse Spruce said:


> I called you mean in that other post before and got deleted. Case and point. I guess she deleted me because I said to get your head out of your ass. It was quick and flip and funny. I didn't think it was worth of delete but whatever-not my call. If you don't like what I say why not take your negativity somewhere else. If you can't say something nice, start a thread where all you do is put other's post that you don't like into the gutter. Maybe that will make you feel better about yourself.


actually i didnt delete it the religion mod did.


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## Chartreuse Spruce (Apr 14, 2013)

sunni said:


> actually i didnt delete it the religion mod did.


Sorry for the trouble. He is being so rude and in more threads than this one. A real bully. I have a quick temper when people's ideas get insulted. omg. I had a filter on that one too...it just is not right. But I'll behave. I can kill someone with kindness.


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## sunni (Apr 14, 2013)

Chartreuse Spruce said:


> Sorry for the trouble. He is being so rude and in more threads than this one. A real bully. I have a quick temper when people's ideas get insulted. omg. I had a filter on that one too...it just is not right. But I'll behave. I can kill someone with kindness.


haha the thing with bullies is to just ignore


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## Kervork (Apr 14, 2013)

So god comes down slaps you on the forehead and explains the reason for your suffering. Then he leaves. You still suffer, but now you know why. Any improvement there for you?
Year after year you will struggle with that answer wondering why the fuck it doesn't alleviate your suffering nor give you the direction in life you hoped it would.

It takes ten years to get over the stench of enlightenment. 

The answers give no solace, only the reason. Why would you expect knowing why to suddenly make your life fucking wonderful?

And as far as walking from New Mexico to California... I knew a homeless man in town. He used to walk all over the place. He walked the length of the appalachian trail. A minor feat considering he had to walk 2000 miles to get to the trailhead.


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 15, 2013)

Don't be so sensitive Chart. Zaehet is not the one for ad hominem attacks or personal insults. You're taking things personally. I don't recall him ever being "mean" to you or being a "bully". Crying foul is a common tactic by people that don't have solid ground to stand on. Saying someone is wrong and pointing out inconsistencies in thought is not being a bully. It's not about being right or wrong, it's about arriving at the best possible answer. It's really team work if you think about it.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 15, 2013)

Kervork said:


> So god comes down slaps you on the forehead and explains the reason for your suffering. Then he leaves. You still suffer, but now you know why. Any improvement there for you?
> Year after year you will struggle with that answer wondering why the fuck it doesn't alleviate your suffering nor give you the direction in life you hoped it would.
> 
> It takes ten years to get over the stench of enlightenment.
> ...


I think you make an extremely valid point, and i don't want your comment to go unnoticed. 





Also, i'm sorry if i came off as being mean... i know i do that sometimes. But how can you tell people to let go of their attachment to their ideas when you yourself can't? It seems preposterous to me to hold a double standard like that.

It also sickens me, when humans attempt to say that "if you would only believe in this idea, your life will be complete and you can attain peace and happiness" when there are people in the world in this exact moment who are in extreme amounts of pain and suffering... who are dying of thirst and starvation. No idea is going to help anyone unless they have enough food and clean water to drink. 

The world isn't as happy and comfortable for everyone as our country would like you to believe, it is full of misery and terror, greed and unfairness, pain and suffering. Just because we have warm beds to sleep in at night, does not mean that everyone does. This is not the case at all. 

Most of us in wealthy countries have the time to worry about what we can do differently to make us happy, how we can be happy with accepting different ideas and ideologies while we have fucking full stomachs, we can buy anything we want with enough money, we can drive around in cars, see places we've never seen and go places we've never been. And we STILL complain, we still say our life is incomplete and try to give ourselves excuses to believe in some idea that will give us hope in a world that is not complete. Most people do not have access to any of these things, nor do they have any of those privileges. They are worrying about survival, whether or not they are going to eat today, or get sick from the water they drink. It is wise, in my opinion, to never forget this.

Maybe if we remember these things, we'll stop being so damn selfish and try to do something about the pain, suffering and inequality in the world... rather than accepting the world the way it is and pretending everything will be ok if only we believe in a certain idea.


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## Heisenberg (Apr 15, 2013)

Chartreuse Spruce said:


> Sorry for the trouble. He is being so rude and in more threads than this one. A real bully. I have a quick temper when people's ideas get insulted. omg. I had a filter on that one too...it just is not right. But I'll behave. I can kill someone with kindness.


Sad and useless is the idea which shrinks from scrutiny and employs the hurt card. If you can not separate your ideas from your person, then you probably shouldn't be hanging out in the philosophy section. People are provided this forum and protected from personal abuse, their ideas however, enjoy no such protection. If your ideas are too fragile to endure comments then maybe you shouldn't declare them publicly until you take the time to strengthen them.


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 15, 2013)

...Heis, amuse this hypothetical: do you figure a God would have to follow His own laws?


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## Chartreuse Spruce (Apr 15, 2013)

I didn't declare anything publically. Nor did I post anything about people letting go of their ideas. That wasn't me. I don't claim to know certainty of anything. I don't want to push my view or fight with someone on their beliefs or criticize them for what they think and feel. Live and let live. This was not my posts or my thread. All I said was the OP was on the right track. As for my whole thing with getting my panties in such a bunch yesterday...it was in another thread where I mentioned something, only biblical or historical scholars know. I was ridiculed. It pissed me off. Big deal. But just because you have never heard of something does not make it untrue. Just because someone has a different view from mine does not give them the right to put mine down. And I don't need to make my beliefs more solid before I speak of them. I just wont share anything else here. The end. who cares? no one.


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## New Age United (Apr 15, 2013)

Zaehet and Kervork, you are some serious people, serious serious people, "you will recieve the kingdom like a child or you will not recieve it all", it is tragic that so many people are starving around the world, but I don't think Enlightenment is to blame for that, I think unconsciousness is to blame, living in a material world where selfeshness and greed is your master, it's ok, it's ok. 

Attatchment to an idea, this is not about ideas it is about letting go of idealogy, yes that is a very good point Nietzsche, it is about arriving at the Truth and it is most definately about teamwork, I am no messiah. "The point of an argument is not to win the argument it is to seek the truth" Plato, "if you were to lose a gold coin, do you think I would not try to help you find it" Plato


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## Heisenberg (Apr 15, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...Heis, amuse this hypothetical: do you figure a God would have to follow His own laws?


Sure, but you would first need to define "God" and "law".


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## New Age United (Apr 15, 2013)

I like that Heisenberg, and I like the signature, both prove good points. Strictly my opinion, even the Truth is not actually important, the Truth is the Truth and nothing more. The fact that things do evolve reveals to humanity that there is a higher consciousness at work in the universe. "All man came from the germ cell" The Quran


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## Heisenberg (Apr 15, 2013)

New Age United said:


> I like that Heisenberg, and I like the signature, both prove good points. Strictly my opinion, even the Truth is not actually important, the Truth is the Truth and nothing more. The fact that things do evolve reveals to humanity that there is a higher consciousness at work in the universe. "All man came from the germ cell" The Quran


http://bit.ly/ZWYE5a


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## New Age United (Apr 15, 2013)

Very good point, I can always argue against myself, you can always go with Newtons clockwork universe, that makes sense too, it very well could be a dead universe, but I prefer to just open my eyes and see what is right infront of me, this Paradise is just full of Life and Energy.


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 15, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> Sure, but you would first need to define "God" and "law".


...cool, thanks. "God" being the creator of all that is observable through inner and outer senses. "Laws" are those which are observable in the material universe as we know them. All that pertain to the governance of systems in nature.


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 15, 2013)

The Qu'ran doesn't actually say that... it's an apologetic translation; though I will admit is says something similar. Yes there are many things in the Qu'ran that seem to point to an all knowing supreme being... but it actually doesn't. Just because a book had a few facts correct, doesn't mean it was sent from Allah.

LMAO Heis!


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## Heisenberg (Apr 15, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Very good point, I can always argue against myself, you can always go with Newtons clockwork universe, that makes sense too, it very well could be a dead universe, but I prefer to just open my eyes and *see what is right infront of me*, this Paradise is just full of Life and Energy.


Perhaps you should broaden your view to see past confirmation bias.


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## New Age United (Apr 15, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> The Qu'ran doesn't actually say that... it's an apologetic translation; though I will admit is says something similar. Yes there are many things in the Qu'ran that seem to point to an all knowing supreme being... but it actually doesn't. Just because a book had a few facts correct, doesn't mean it was sent from Allah.


The Quran repeatedly speaks about the germ cell uniting and creating the man, Surely Allah is hearing, seeing, Knowing, Nigh very close in Space and Time, so close that you are one, not a supreme being, just Allah


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 15, 2013)

The more I learned in university about neuroscience.... the more I studied philosophy.... the more I began to see that there was no such thing as free will. Most of the geniuses of the last century believed free will doesn't exist.


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## New Age United (Apr 15, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> Perhaps you should broaden your view to see past confirmation bias.
> 
> View attachment 2617810


I always wonder why people believe the creator to be good when every instinct in you tells you that God is evil, God very well could be a sick sadistic being who created humanity to watch them suffer, but that would require you to believe that God is a sumpreme being who exists outside of your True Self


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## New Age United (Apr 15, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> The more I learned in university about neuroscience.... the more I studied philosophy.... the more I began to see that there was no such thing as free will. Most of the geniuses of the last century believed free will doesn't exist.


And neither do I, very good point


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 15, 2013)

&#1576;&#1575;&#1585;&#1603; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1601;&#1610;&#1603;


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## New Age United (Apr 15, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> &#1576;&#1575;&#1585;&#1603; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1601;&#1610;&#1603;


LMAO, I don't even wanta know what it means


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## Heisenberg (Apr 15, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...cool, thanks. "God" being the creator of all that is observable through inner and outer senses. "Laws" are those which are observable in the material universe as we know them. All that pertain to the governance of systems in nature.


Okay, so scientific law and personal deity God. It comes down to omnipotence. If God is all powerful then he can change laws and work miracles, he has limitless influence and authority. If God is the type who 'evolved' into the universe, if she sacrificed herself to birth reality, then maybe it had influence in the beginning but not now that things are in motion. Perhaps to circumvent this she decided to make consciousness and evolve it to the point of gaining control. The metaphysical inner-verse is not restricted by such laws by design so that it's not necessary to break the physical. Maybe science was part of the plan, an impeccable method of gaining control over nature, and in the meantime we are also intended to find a way to commune with nature so that the control we exert will coincide with her plan.

Or this could simply be a random unfalsifiable narrative I strung together in the last 30 seconds.


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 15, 2013)

New Age United said:


> LMAO, I don't even wanta know what it means


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Barakallah+Fik+English+meaning 

Nod to Heis.


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## New Age United (Apr 15, 2013)

That's brilliant Heisenberg actually, never thought of that, similar to Newton proposing the possibility that God is the creator of the clock and set it in motion


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## Heisenberg (Apr 15, 2013)

New Age United said:


> That's brilliant Heisenberg actually, never thought of that, similar to Newton proposing the possibility that God is the creator of the clock and set it in motion


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandeism


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## Kite High (Apr 15, 2013)

New Age United said:


> LMAO, ok, bare with me, I am no prophet, and I wouldn't exactly call myself Enlightened, I still have quite the ego lol!!! I am not trying to exalt myself here this is some very practical stuff and it has helped many many people, so that's why I asked. That actually is a good vid heisenburg, ya I don't believe in law of attraction and have absolutely no interest in the age of aquarious and all that crap, I don't identify as anything, all things are fleeting. What I can do is give you a glimpse of Enlightenment, and to anybody who has already begun to Awaken I can accelerate your Enlightenment. Ok it's about to get real deep and spiritual up in here, this is gonna be long so if you're not interested in it then just leave the page, this I know for certain, it is really not important, yes the survival of humanity is dependent on Awakening, but I have very good news, even the survival of humanity itself is not important, death is nothing to be afraid of, it is very peaceful, like sleep.
> 
> Read very slowly and pay very careful "Attention" to what is being said
> 
> ...


Do what thou wilt is the Whole of the Law


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## mudminer (Apr 16, 2013)

hey everybody. a little while back some of you were talking about free will being a false concept. would you please elaborate on that a little. it certainly "seems" to me that i have a choice in what i do or do not do. is the course of our lives predetermined? if so by who or what? thanx


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## tyler.durden (Apr 16, 2013)

mudminer said:


> hey everybody. a little while back some of you were talking about free will being a false concept. would you please elaborate on that a little. it certainly "seems" to me that i have a choice in what i do or do not do. is the course of our lives predetermined? if so by who or what? thanx


Hey, Mudminer! The concept of free will was one of my favorite, and was very hard for me to doubt, much less give up. A lot of philosophy doubts the concept, a really good, short read on the subject is Daniel Dennett's _Elbow Room: The Varieties of Free Will worth Wanting_. I think there's been some interesting threads in this sub-forum that address the subject, you could do a quick search and read through them. A lot of the latest neuro-science shows that we become aware of our decisions quickly after making them. _After._ Physics also points in this direction. Take the concept of_ now_, relativity shows that now happens at different times for each of us, and is influenced by distance and motion. This short Nova clip shows more about the now concept, and how it is affected by motion - 

[video=youtube;j-u1aaltiq4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-u1aaltiq4[/video]

If physics shows that the past, present and future already exist (Hawking asks, 'why can we remember the past, but not the the future?'), where is there room for free will? By traveling toward us from Andromeda looking at the Earth, one would see far into our future. I could go on for pages, but the way I think of it is like this: If the past, present and future exist, we are like conscious characters in a book that's already been written. The characters in this book, under the illusion of linear time, think that they are making choices, but since the book is finished this couldn't be so. My buddy likes to point out that although the future is determined, it is not determinable to us, so the illusion of choice and free will will have to do...


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## Heisenberg (Apr 16, 2013)

[youtube]pCofmZlC72g[/youtube]

[youtube]aKLAbWFCh1E[/youtube]


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 16, 2013)

I don't believe in free will. My views also differ slightly from Mr. Durden's (or at least it seems they do) as I also don't believe in fatalism/fate or in any sort of plan or end goal. We are slaves to our brains i.e. our biology and genes. We also live in a universe where nothing* happens in a vacuum. Therefore everything is effected by some prior cause no matter how minute. I suggest reading the book Chaos by James Gleick... I believe is his name. As humans we like to/ need to organize our world into patterns. Often there is so much "chaos" and "white noise" in our world that we can't pick up on patterns; sometimes they may not even exist at all. Sometimes we pick up on false patterns and superstitions arise... I'm getting sidetracked, lol.

Anyway, I don't believe we can call it FREE will if everything we do is effected by something else even by the slightest degree. There are experiments that supposedly prove that our mind has already decided what choices we will make before we are even aware that a decision has been made. Does this prove we have no free will? Possibly, but I'm not totally convinced by the interpretation of this research. But, you really don't need that research to understand that point I'm hopefully making. You are asked to choose between a red ball and a green ball. It seems you can pick either one.. and you can. But you pick a certain one and there are certainly underlying reasons as to why you picked that one and not the other.

Moreso, when we look at the behaviour of serial killers and people with impulse control we can see, once again, that even though we know something is wrong and we don't want to do it... we can't always control ourselves; we don't have the free will to stop an action or change our course. Take J. Dahmer, he knew killing was wrong, he didn't want to do it, and he felt bad about it. He wanted to stop, but he couldn't. Same with drugs and alcohol sometimes.

There are many medical cases you can read about if you're interested where people's minds made them do weird things. There was a man that developed an attraction to children. We was a good man and had never done anything like that before. He got arrested for child molestation and rape. While in prison they discovered a brain tumor. When they removed it, these desires for children stopped immediately. later he started having them again and the doctors found that they had missed some of the tumor and it had grown back. Once again they removed it and he went back to normal. Also there are many accounts of people having personality changes after a serious brain injury. Their likes and dislikes changed, their entire personality. Researchers and doctors have found, not so recently, that you can manipulate someones actions, what they see, hear, sense, even give them "psychic abilities" by introducing electrodes into their brains or simply by applying magnetic waves to the skull. 

Cause and effect make it impossible for our will to ever be completely free. If we aren't completely free, in this respect, then we aren't free.


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 16, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> Okay, so scientific law and personal deity God. It comes down to omnipotence. If God is all powerful then he can change laws and work miracles, he has limitless influence and authority. If God is the type who 'evolved' into the universe, if she sacrificed herself to birth reality, then maybe it had influence in the beginning but not now that things are in motion. Perhaps to circumvent this she decided to make consciousness and evolve it to the point of gaining control. The metaphysical inner-verse is not restricted by such laws by design so that it's not necessary to break the physical. Maybe science was part of the plan, an impeccable method of gaining control over nature, and in the meantime we are also intended to find a way to commune with nature so that the control we exert will coincide with her plan.
> 
> Or this could simply be a random unfalsifiable narrative I strung together in the last 30 seconds.


...would've been cool to see what you'd have come up with in 30 years 

...I don't believe in things like 'the secret', most of that marketed stuff is more like 'the secrete'. Anyway, would thought (imagination) and evolution grow an arm back?


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## Mister Sister (Apr 16, 2013)

Free will vs. determinism seems like North Pole vs South Pole. Keep traveling North, and eventually you're heading South anyways.

The chicken _is_ the egg, ya dig?

Kinda like that pic of the butterfly next to the pic of the starving kid. It's not fair to say that you can't see 'god' in both. Both are but a miniscule snapshot of a much longer story that runs through the past present and future. They represent one moment of infinite.

Spiritual enlightenment, I'll take all the help I can get. Come find me in the garden!


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## Mister Sister (Apr 16, 2013)

I've watched The Secret and I can say it never rang very true for me.

What seemed the most true to me is the location in which one keeps their subconscious mind. Certainly spending time outdoors surrounded by natural intelligence in a very pure form will lend a fellow different subconscious symbols or 'instructions' than spending most of your time taking subconscious hints from the Television or any similar mind-altering devices...


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## New Age United (Apr 16, 2013)

Mister Sister said:


> Spiritual enlightenment, I'll take all the help I can get. Come find me in the garden!


Brilliant, some people are not needing of Enlightenment "you do not send a physician to those who are healthy"

Very good points from all of you on free will, philosophy at its finest


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 16, 2013)

Chartreuse Spruce said:


> Yes! The Emerald Tablets. I found myself speaking the chants trying to gain access to the hall of halls! The halls of Amenti. I felt after a while like I was maybe getting closer to the dark rather than the light. I think that perhaps Thoth built the Great Pyramid. With all that you said above, assuming that you know that all this is the Truth the light and the way, are you aware of all pyramid facts and know of its previous in history as a machine? And I don't mean what we have been told by Egyptologist. Thanks for posting all of that.


http://youtu.be/1oUqXdG7Xi4?t=43s


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 17, 2013)

Mister Sister said:


> The chicken _is_ the egg, ya dig?


Scientists believe that the egg probably preceded the chicken because of reproduction. When chickens reproduce, sperm from the rooster fertilizes an ovum from the hen, forming a new cell called a zygote. This zygote then reproduces, eventually forming all of the cells that make up a baby chick. This is why all of a chick's cells have exactly the same DNA. Before there were chickens, there were other nonchicken species, which evolved to form the modern chicken. However, any changes to the nonchicken that evolved into a chicken had to occur in the zygote. Therefore, what probably happened is that two nonchickens mated and their zygote mutated into a chicken cell, and then multiplied. Eventually, a full chicken was ready to hatch. This means that the egg probably is the answer to the age-old question of which came first. Of course, this happened millions of years ago, and chickens weren't domesticated until about 7,000 years ago


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## Heisenberg (Apr 17, 2013)

"Just to settle it once and for all: Which came first the Chicken or the Egg? The Egg &#8212; laid by a bird that was not a Chicken."

&#8212; Neil deGrasse Tyson


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 17, 2013)

Ditto, the egg.


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## Rockster (Apr 17, 2013)

New Age United said:


> LMAO, ok, bare with me, I am no prophet, and I wouldn't exactly call myself Enlightened, I still have quite the ego lol!!! I am not trying to exalt myself here this is some very practical stuff and it has helped many many people, so that's why I asked. That actually is a good vid heisenburg, ya I don't believe in law of attraction and have absolutely no interest in the age of aquarious and all that crap, I don't identify as anything, all things are fleeting. What I can do is give you a glimpse of Enlightenment, and to anybody who has already begun to Awaken I can accelerate your Enlightenment. Ok it's about to get real deep and spiritual up in here, this is gonna be long so if you're not interested in it then just leave the page, this I know for certain, it is really not important, yes the survival of humanity is dependent on Awakening, but I have very good news, even the survival of humanity itself is not important, death is nothing to be afraid of, it is very peaceful, like sleep.
> 
> Read very slowly and pay very careful "Attention" to what is being said
> 
> ...


 That was 10 minutes of reading new age white noise. Sorry, you've brought _nothing_ to the party.

I'm not trying to offend you but your grasp of science is laughable and referring to bronze age slave owning genocidal child rapist goat herder mythology makes this a dish of fail served with lashings of fail sauce.

I hope it makes you happy though 


peace

Rockster ( in Realityland )


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## PetFlora (Apr 17, 2013)

_4: The Sun is your Father the Moon is your Mother_

Sorry, no. Earth is our Mother. The moon is an artificial construct. I believe it was placed there after the great floods, by beings who want to control humans (sheeple). It altered the rhythmic cycle throwing us off- confusing us, making us easy to manipulate 

I'm sure there is a lot more I can toss grenades at, but basically, New Age was brought to you by the very same controllers who invented religion, which many like myself back in the mid 50s realized was total BS. Their goal is to keep us looking outside ourselves for help, thereby giving up our personal power. Focus on that and you will become enlightened.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 17, 2013)

PetFlora said:


> _4: The Sun is your Father the Moon is your Mother_
> 
> Sorry, no. Earth is our Mother. The moon is an artificial construct. I believe it was placed there after the great floods, by beings who want to control humans (sheeple). It altered the rhythmic cycle throwing us off- confusing us, making us easy to manipulate
> 
> I'm sure there is a lot more I can toss grenades at, but basically, New Age was brought to you by the very same controllers who invented religion, which many like myself back in the mid 50s realized was total BS. Their goal is to keep us looking outside ourselves for help, thereby giving up our personal power. Focus on that and you will become enlightened.


[video=youtube;55h1FO8V_3w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55h1FO8V_3w[/video]


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## New Age United (Apr 17, 2013)

Rockster said:


> That was 10 minutes of reading new age white noise. Sorry, you've brought _nothing_ to the party.
> 
> I'm not trying to offend you but your grasp of science is laughable and referring to bronze age slave owning genocidal child rapist goat herder mythology makes this a dish of fail served with lashings of fail sauce.
> 
> ...


Pure Ego

I just wanted to add my two cents here on freewill. I am not a part of this world, nor am I apart from this world, simply a witness, however I must add that "the Witness" is the Knower of all things, "Allah is the Knower of all things", I am the Knower not the known, and that does have a tremendous effect. You all contain an Immortal genius, intuition is a marvel, Homer, Gautama, Jesus, Muhammad, DaVinci, Shakespeare, Newton, Einstein, the list goes on and on, I'm sorry I can not call Stephen Hawkings a genius, he most certainly is a brilliant physicist but I can not see the genius. 

"There are three types of people in this world, those that see, those that see when they are shown, and those that do not see, oh wretched mortals open your eyes" DaVinci

Wretched mortal is strictly his opinion, I prefer the beautiful people.

I will add on to this thread when I have some time for anybody that is interested, if there is anybody interested, I am always open to debate.


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 17, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Scientists believe that the egg probably preceded the chicken because of reproduction. After that they said that love is not from God, and that "Oh my science that chicken at lunch was fckn awesome!".


.................


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 17, 2013)

Throw a spiritual/religious person into a 3rd world country for a year and the will soon learn that positive thinking and beliefs hold absolutely no merit when survival is top priority.

Also, i did some baaad shit the other day... and today i had the best day at work of my life. Where the fuck you at karma? Lil biiiitch, come and get me. lol


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 18, 2013)

Lol, glad you had a great day Zaehet. Have fun, but remember your responsibility to not hurt others. It's natural and as a moral nihilist... I don't care, lol. Live your life as it was "meant" to be lived.


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## Beefbisquit (Apr 18, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Pure Ego
> 
> I just wanted to add my two cents here on freewill. I am not a part of this world, nor am I apart from this world, simply a witness, however I must add that "the Witness" is the Knower of all things, "Allah is the Knower of all things", I am the Knower not the known, and that does have a tremendous effect. You all contain an Immortal genius, intuition is a marvel, Homer, Gautama, Jesus, Muhammad, DaVinci, Shakespeare, Newton, Einstein, the list goes on and on, *I'm sorry I can not call Stephen Hawkings a genius, he most certainly is a brilliant physicist but I can not see the genius. *
> 
> ...


Luckily, your opinion on Stephen Hawking's intelligence is irrelevant and he will remain to be a genius regardless of how you feel, or your opinion of him. 

Logic and philosophy, when studied in depth, show that intuition is frequently wrong.


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## New Age United (Apr 18, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Throw a spiritual/religious person into a 3rd world country for a year and the will soon learn that positive thinking and beliefs hold absolutely no merit when survival is top priority.


Throw an Enlightened person into a third world country and there will be change, I've seen it with my own two eyes, throw you into a third will country and there will be suicide


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## New Age United (Apr 18, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Luckily, your opinion on Stephen Hawking's intelligence is irrelevant and he will remain to be a genius regardless of how you feel, or your opinion of him.
> 
> Logic and philosophy, when studied in depth, show that intuition is frequently wrong.


It's ok it is just my opinion it really is, I honestly don't think you actually know what intuition is, I would highly recommend "The Republic" by Plato


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## 420neverforget (Apr 18, 2013)

The enlightened does not think in terms of first and third world.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 18, 2013)

420neverforget said:


> The enlightened does not think in terms of first and third world.


Because we get to eat food and drink clean water every day...lol.


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## Beefbisquit (Apr 18, 2013)

New Age United said:


> It's ok it is just my opinion it really is, I honestly don't think you actually know what intuition is, I would highly recommend "The Republic" by Plato


I have a degree in Philosophy. Thanks for the first year reading material though.


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## MellowFarmer (Apr 18, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Ok so it's real late where I'm at and I'm about to go to bed, but real serious, does anybody out there want to receive Spiritual Enlightnement, and by this I mean does anyone want to live in complete Peace in Paradise. Now keep in mind that I haven't done any psychadelics in a long time lmfao, I haven't even smoked a j in quite awhile, but I gaurantee you, I can bring you into the promised land lmfao. It might seem like a practical joke but trust me I can do it. So if anyone's interested in this shit let me know.


There are but there are many more haters here so you are in the right place to try to teach if you love a challenge! There was a Lightworkers thread a while back. I just bumped it for you.


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## MellowFarmer (Apr 18, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Throw an Enlightened person into a third world country and there will be change, I've seen it with my own two eyes, throw you into a third will country and there will be suicide


Ghandi predicted the British would leave peacefully and they all laughed at him until they left peacefully.


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## New Age United (Apr 18, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> I have a degree in Philosophy. Thanks for the first year reading material though.


See that's exactly what I'm saying, I think you must have forgotten exactly what intuition really is. Of course intuition can be wrong, there are all sorts of counter-intuitives, you can not even find the Truth without running into atleast one paradox, but once you do find the Truth it absolutely must be completely intuitive, that is exactly how you confirm the Truth, that is how you "recollect" things, that is how your mind works. Now you recollect that don't you. 

There would be no philosophy, no math, no science without it, it is literally the key to all intelligence, it truly is a marvel.


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## New Age United (Apr 18, 2013)

MellowFarmer said:


> Ghandi predicted the British would leave peacefully and they all laughed at him until they left peacefully.


Ghandi was perhaps the most enlightened person of the last few centuries


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 18, 2013)

I knew I liked you for some reason Beef, lol. Philosophy grad here as well. 

We all had to start with Plato, so I guess it is new and earth shaking for some. New Age, I'd really suggest you read Philosophical Investigations by Wittgenstein, It's probably the most important book of the 20th Century. It will scramble your brains, but that just means you're actually reading it. Quine, Tarski, and Frege are good "contemporary" philosophers to read as well. Stay away from Searle though, I had him as a professor and he was a tool; very over-rated in my opinion.

Maybe I'm just absent minded, but I don't really recall intuition being a big topic in Republic.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 18, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Of course intuition can be wrong


Then how are you supposed to tell if your intuition is 100% certainly correct?... there is a flaw in every new ager's mind, it is that they could be wrong, but they don't want to think about that possibility so they ignore it and pretend it isn't there.

I think it wise to find humility in the face of the contemplation of reality... rather than spout your pride and ego telling everyone you have found the truth, the way and the light.


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 18, 2013)

I don't even know what we are talking about. On which page is the truth of spiritual enlightenment?


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## 420neverforget (Apr 18, 2013)

It's on page 10.


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## MellowFarmer (Apr 19, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Ghandi was perhaps the most enlightened person of the last few centuries


Yes, he sure was! I try very hard to follow his ways but it is difficult!


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## tyler.durden (Apr 19, 2013)

^^ I hope that doesn't include his awful racism...

http://www.gandhism.net/southafricanblacks.php

*Ghandi and Blacks*
*
The Durban Post Office*
One of Gandhi's major "achievements" in South Africa was to promote racial segregation by refusing to share a post office door with the black natives.

*Sergeant Major Gandhi*
Learn how Gandhi became a Sgt. Major in the British Army and eagerly participated in the 1906 British war against the black Zulus.
*Gandhi and South African Blacks* - http://www.gandhism.net/southafricanblacks.php

Gandhi wrote extensively about his experiences with the blacks of South Africa. He always termed them "Kaffirs" and his writings reveal a deep-seated disdain for these African natives.

*Introduction*
Gandhi is idolized by people of all political stripes around the world, and his life is popularly considered a model for the American Civil Rights Movement.
U.S. Senator Harry Reid called Gandhi &#8220;a giant in morality.&#8221; Former U.S president Ronald Reagan signed a bill creating a &#8220;National Day of Recognition for Mohandas K. Gandhi.&#8221; South African leader Nelson Mandela called Gandhi &#8220;the archetypal anticolonial revolutionary&#8221; whose &#8220;nonviolent resistance inspired anticolonial and antiracist movements.&#8221; African-American Senator Obama reportedly keeps a picture of Gandhi in his office.
Martin Luther King, Jr. associated Gandhi with the African-American struggle against inequality, segregation, and racism. Reverend King believed Gandhi was &#8220;inspired by the vision of humanity evolving toward...peace and harmony.&#8221; When the Indian government paid to place a statue of Gandhi at the Martin Luther King, Jr. Memorial Center in Atlanta, Mrs. King spoke about her husband's admiration for Gandhi, saying, &#8220;It is gratifying and appropriate that this statue is installed in this historic site.&#8221;
Unfortunately, these people were never acquainted with the real, historical Mohandas Gandhi, who was a virulent racist.
Gandhi was hired to work as an attorney for wealthy Indian traders in South Africa. He moved there in 1893 and soon helped establish the Natal Indian Congress. The goal of this Congress was to &#8220;promote concord and harmony among the Indians and Europeans residing in the colony [of South Africa].&#8221; Instead of concord and harmony with the blacks, however, Gandhi promoted racial segregation. The major achievement of the Congress was the successful attempt, spear-headed by Gandhi, to fix the Durban post office &#8220;problem.&#8221; This issue is discussed in-depth here.
In 1904, Gandhi founded _The Indian Opinion_, a newspaper which he used as a political tool to promote his personal views. It is in this paper, which Gandhi edited until 1914, that we find a record of his extensive anti-black activism and opinions. A list of anti-black quotes from his writings, in which he invariably refers to the South African natives as &#8220;Kaffirs,&#8221; can be found here. Gandhi's opinion of the native is best summarized when he calls them people &#8220;whose occupation is hunting, and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with and, then, pass his life in indolence and nakedness.&#8221;

Finally, in 1906, Gandhi cheered on the British as they waged a war on the black Zulus. He then volunteered for military service himself, attaining the rank of Sgt. Major in the British Army and assisting the war on blacks in every way he could. You can learn more about this here.
One of the best-known heroes of the American Civil Rights Movement was Rosa Parks, the black lady who refused to sit at the back of the bus. While Gandhi is upheld as a champion of equality, the truth is that he probably would not even have allowed Mrs. Parks on the bus in the first place. He proudly said that among South African Indians, the &#8220;co-mingling of the coloured and white races...is practically unknown.&#8221; Gandhi also boasted, &#8220;If there is one thing, which the Indian cherishes, more than any other, it is the purity of type.&#8221;
People remember Rev. King for his most famous speech, in which he said: &#8220;I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.&#8221; To associate Martin Luther King, Jr. with Mohandas Gandhi, whose dream was to clear the way for Apartheid in South Africa, is an insult to the memory of Rev. King.


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## Beefbisquit (Apr 19, 2013)

New Age United said:


> See that's exactly what I'm saying, I think you must have forgotten exactly what intuition really is. Of course intuition can be wrong, there are all sorts of counter-intuitives, you can not even find the Truth without running into atleast one paradox, but once you do find the Truth it absolutely must be completely intuitive, that is exactly how you confirm the Truth, that is how you "recollect" things, that is how your mind works. Now you recollect that don't you.
> 
> There would be no philosophy, no math, no science without it, it is literally the key to all intelligence, it truly is a marvel.


No, I don't see; and I know exactly what intuition is, we specifically covered intuition and the metaphysical; the topics are anything but intuitive. What makes you, you? Is time travel possible, what would be the ramifications if it's possible? Can two things share all the same properties and be distinct? At what point does a piece of plastic stop being a piece of plastic and start being a cup, or container? Does it lose its original identity, or does it have separate identities?

What paradox do you run into when finding out the truth about 1+2?

Everything you've written is just an assertion, with zero basis in reality.

What is intuitive about ethics and morality?

Read 'the trolley problem' and all its varieties, Phillipa Foote and her proponents make some great arguments, some of which are very difficult to 'intuit'.


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 19, 2013)

Sounds like a lot of people simply go with the last opinion they've heard. I'm growing tired of the platitudes and banal musings on enlightenment. 

It bothers me that people equate the word "intuition" with psychic abilities. Gandhi was hardly enlightened, he was an activist. If you want enlightened, go to the library and check out a book by Alan Watts.


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## PetFlora (Apr 19, 2013)

It's hard to make any sense out of an artificial construct like a matrix run by AI. The only way out is to first awaken to it, realize you chose to be here for over-soul lessons, and stay true to your true higher self and move on/out of the third dimension when it's time


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## Beefbisquit (Apr 19, 2013)

PetFlora said:


> It's hard to make any sense out of an artificial construct like a matrix run by AI.



Artificial construct? What basis do you have for believing we're in an artificial construct? What proof do you have for another reality?



> The only way out is to first awaken to it, realize you chose to be here for over-soul lessons, and stay true to your true higher self and move on/out of the third dimension when it's time


You haven't proven there's anything to awaken from yet, you've just asserted it to be true with no basis. Where is my higher self? Is it floating above me? I've yet to see any proof that we exist as anything other than our physical selves. 

Are you suggesting time travel? The fourth dimension is often thought of as time, so it would seem to me, you are suggesting that we can time travel. 

Good luck with that....


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 19, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Are you suggesting time travel? The fourth dimension is often thought of as time, so it would seem to me, you are suggesting that we can time travel.


...just read something yesterday that I thought was pretty cool. Time is the rhythm of the process of observation...something like that.

...


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## PetFlora (Apr 19, 2013)

What is proof? You won't find it here, or in a book. It's inside... your higher self, which is neither your physical body, nor your physical experience

17th century Galileo was ostracized by science and church for saying the earth revolved around the sun. What proof did he have, or they for believing otherwise?


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 19, 2013)

PetFlora said:


> What is proof? You won't find it here, or in a book. It's inside... your higher self, which is neither your physical body, nor your physical experience


WTF! You got my attention with the first sentence, then made me roll my eyes with the others. I don't even want to visit this thread anymore... I think I might start a thread on epistemology. Who's with me?


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## Harrekin (Apr 19, 2013)

Can someone tell me what my "higher self" is made of, ie what base material is it made from?

Same with the soul, what is it comprised of?


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## Beefbisquit (Apr 19, 2013)

Harrekin said:


> Can someone tell me what my "higher self" is made of, ie what base material is it made from?
> 
> Same with the soul, what is it comprised of?


We've yet to discover the 'soul particle'. lol


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## tyler.durden (Apr 19, 2013)

Harrekin said:


> Can someone tell me what my "higher self" is made of, ie what base material is it made from?
> 
> Same with the soul, what is it comprised of?


Hey, Harrekin! I hope all is well. I haven't seen you around for a LONG time, glad you're back in this sub-forum...


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## Beefbisquit (Apr 19, 2013)

PetFlora said:


> What is proof? You won't find it here, or in a book. It's inside... your higher self, which is neither your physical body, nor your physical experience
> 
> 17th century Galileo was ostracized by science and church for saying the earth revolved around the sun. What proof did he have, or they for believing otherwise?


Nonsense. Galileo tracked the movement of stars and planets, and proof, is by definition, tangible not some mystic woo-woo that is completely un-falsifiable.


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## New Age United (Apr 19, 2013)

That's good people your counter arguments are more than welcome, that can help anybody reading this thread to determine what is Truth.

I just wanted to add on to Intuition here, it is very important(relatively) that you understand exactly what Intuition really is. 

Intuition is never wrong, never ever ever ever, never. A parodox. It is actually your Intuition that recognizes counter-intuition, it is Intuition that Knows to go beyond the paradox and seek the Truth, and it always Knows when it has arrived at the Truth, the thing is you just don't trust it. 

Answer the following questions. 1. 1+1=2 T or F 2. 1=1=3 T or F If you answered T to the first question and F to the second then you are trusting your intuition. 

Another question. If humanity does not have faith in God he will become angry and destroy humanity, for he is one to be feared T or F If you answered T you are not trusting your Intuition. 

This is how I can tell that Stephen Hawkings is not a genius, he does not speak of Truth, he is imagining pie in the sky ideas, logical possibilities yes, brilliant most certainly, but completely useless, exercise for the mind but that's all, however I must add that he is fulfilling a great purpose, to show people that which is not Truth. 

The Theory of Relativity may never be proven but it will never be disproven either, that's because it is the Truth, I have gone over every counter possibility and it is the only thing that makes absolute sense(Intuition). Now it is "quite" a good possibility that he and I both slipped up at the same time and that someone else may recognize a flaw or flaws that need to be corrected, but in general it is Truth and will never be disproven. 

Humanity is approaching the end of it's evolution, the perfect placement of the Cosmos, the clockwork universe, however I must add that at every single little tick there is consciousness involved, there absolutely must be a "Knowing" involved. "Do not look at the universe as a machine" Newton. This universe is very Alive, just open your eyes and see. 

Believe it or not there is an end to all knowledge and we are approaching that end. "when humanity finally finds the answer to all of lifes questions it will be very simple" Einstein

"Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated" Confucious 

"Simplicity is the unltimate sophistication" DaVinci

Please trust your Intuition, it is a genius, it "Knows" the Truth, you just have to "recollect" it.


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## Heisenberg (Apr 19, 2013)

The Dunning-Kruger effect occurs when incompetent people not only fail to realize their incompetence, but consider themselves much more competent than everyone else. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Argument by assertion is the logical fallacy where someone tries to argue a point by merely asserting that it is true, regardless of contradiction. While this may seem stupid, it's actually an easy trap to fall into and is quite common. 

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_by_assertion


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 19, 2013)

Lol, I'd forgoteen about Dunning-Kruger. When I first found out about it, I became so paranoid and pretty much convinced myself that I knew nothing. One must avoid hubris.


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## mindphuk (Apr 19, 2013)

My intuition tells me that New Age United is a sexual deviant and likes to be beat and pissed on while wearing lace panties. It must be TRUTH because intuition is never wrong.


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## Heisenberg (Apr 19, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> Lol, I'd forgoteen about Dunning-Kruger. When I first found out about it, I became so paranoid and pretty much convinced myself that I knew nothing. One must avoid hubris.


I think of it as the American Idol syndrome. No matter how many people say that you suck and no matter how little you progress at a skill, you still think you're destined for fame. You can also see the D-K effect in just about any episode of Kitchen Nightmares/restaurant impossible. The only way the chefs/owners know they are failing is the fact that they are losing money, but they never think it's because of management, service or food quality, even after it's pointed out.


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 19, 2013)

It's like me and my mj growing skills! Who knew I'd gain enlightenment from this thread after all?! Thanks Heis!


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## tyler.durden (Apr 19, 2013)

New Age United said:


> See that's exactly what I'm saying, I think you must have forgotten exactly what intuition really is. *Of course intuition can be wrong,* there are all sorts of counter-intuitives, you can not even find the Truth without running into atleast one paradox, but once you do find the Truth it absolutely must be completely intuitive, that is exactly how you confirm the Truth, that is how you "recollect" things, that is how your mind works. Now you recollect that don't you.
> 
> There would be no philosophy, no math, no science without it, it is literally the key to all intelligence, it truly is a marvel.





New Age United said:


> That's good people your counter arguments are more than welcome, that can help anybody reading this thread to determine what is Truth.
> 
> I just wanted to add on to Intuition here, it is very important(relatively) that you understand exactly what Intuition really is.
> 
> ...


The bolded red above? One of us is missing something really basic here. 

Intuition is not required nor desired when doing math. We don't arrive at correct answers by intuition, but by rational methodology and proofs.

*in·tu·i·tion*

_noun_ \&#716;in-tü-&#712;i-sh&#601;n, -tyü-\
*Definition of INTUITION*

1
*:* quick and ready insight 

2
_a_ *:* immediate apprehension or cognition 
_b_ *:* knowledge or conviction gained by intuition 
*c : the power or faculty of attaining to direct knowledge or cognition without evident rational thought and inference *


Attempting to gain knowledge without the effort of rational thought is tempting, but I find it's always better to do the work to come to effective, 'true' answers...


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 19, 2013)

I deem it extremely unwise to take spiritual advice from anyone who contradicts themselves so plainly. I don't think anyone here is trying to be mean to you N/A... though some are harsh with their words, we are just trying to help you observe your thoughts. It's very hard for some people to be wrong, even more so to accept it, but those who do here in the SS&P forums gain much congratulations when we admit our faults and apologize, for that you will gain admiration and respect rather than the scrutiny and criticism of your contradictory ideas.


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## New Age United (Apr 19, 2013)

I'm sorry but the Truth is just beyond you, it just is, I'm sorry but explaining this to those that do not see is like trying to explain physics to a monkey, I'm sorry but it is

This is the pilosophy section right, there must be a philosopher around

If anyone would actually like to debate about something I would be more than open, this is not about me or you, this is about the Truth and nothing more, if you show me respect I will show you the upmost respect. The most important thing in philosophy is to leave the ego at the door, never attack your opponent, there are no opponents in philosophy, this is about the Truth, not about who is right or wrong, that is completely useless. The Truth is not important, but it can be very very valuable. These are not philosophers, they are just playing games in their minds. 

The best way to start a debate is to ask a question or simply to give your opinion on a certain subject. If you are not familiar with philosophy that's ok, I can very easily teach you. Intuition is the ability to use memory and logic to come up with the correct answer to a practical question, it is also called recollection. 

If you understand this you are free to speak, just ignore these guys they'll be alright


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## mindphuk (Apr 19, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Intuition is the ability to use memory and logic to come up with the correct answer to a practical question, it is also called recollection.


No no. I'm sorry but you cannot just give words any definition you feel is appropriate. Words have meaning and ignoring them to float you personal agenda is dishonest. 

Attacking an interlocutor's _*position *_is not the same as 'attacking an opponent.' Inferring that your knowledge about truth somehow equates to physicists knowledge compared to monkeys is quite laughable -- and painting your opponents as the monkeys right before you tell others to not attack your opponents is sad. Considering your contradictions and use of weak metaphors and trite sayings, you expose yourself as either a self-deluded wannabe or a fraud.


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## Beefbisquit (Apr 20, 2013)

New Age United said:


> I'm sorry but the Truth is just beyond you, it just is, I'm sorry but explaining this to those that do not see is like trying to explain physics to a monkey, I'm sorry but it is


More like someone who is delusional failing at attempting to persuade critical thinkers.



> This is the pilosophy section right, there must be a philosopher around


With the faculties demonstrated thusfar, you've clearly demonstrated you're not one. 



> If anyone would actually like to debate about something I would be more than open, this is not about me or you, this is about the Truth and nothing more, if you show me respect I will show you the upmost respect.


I'm not convinced you are actually looking for the truth. Seems to me you are looking for reassurance in your beliefs.



> The most important thing in philosophy is to leave the ego at the door, never attack your opponent, there are no opponents in philosophy, this is about the Truth, not about who is right or wrong, that is completely useless.


If two sides are arguing, or debating to find out who is proposing the true statement, it absolutely matters who is right and who is wrong. That's the basis for finding out the truth, how can you say it doesn't matter? It's _the _most important aspect. 



> The Truth is not important, but it can be very very valuable. These are not philosophers, they are just playing games in their minds.


You just said this was 'all about the truth', and now you're saying it's not important - yet it's very, very, valuable.... are you fucking with us? Because your inconsistency is maddening.



> The best way to start a debate is to ask a question or simply to give your opinion on a certain subject. If you are not familiar with philosophy that's ok, I can very easily teach you. Intuition is the ability to use memory and logic to come up with the correct answer to a practical question, it is also called recollection.


No, it's not. Intuition is your subconscious making conscious decisions, without a basis in logic. If you use logic to come to a conclusion, you didn't need intuition because you reasonably came to a conclusion. 



> If you understand this you are free to speak, just ignore these guys they'll be alright


I thought you wanted a debate? 

Here's an excerpt from a book by a Professor of Psychology from The Beckman Centre at the university of Illinois;

"Most students and professors have long believed that, when in doubt, test-takers should stick with their first answers and &#8220;go with their gut.&#8221; But data show that test-takers are more than twice as likely to change an incorrect answer to a correct one than vice versa."


*This is part of an article written by Dr. John Grohol, PsyD,** who is the CEO and founder of Psych Central. He is an author, researcher and expert in mental health online, and has been writing about online behavior, mental health and psychology issues -- as well as the intersection of technology and human behavior -- since 1992. Dr. Grohol sits on the editorial board of the journalCyberpsychology, Behavior and Social Networking and is a founding board member and treasurer of the Society for Participatory Medicine.




Six years ago, Malcolm Gladwell released a book entitled Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking. In his usual style, Gladwell weaves stories in-between descriptions of scientific research the support his hypothesis that our intuition can be surprisingly accurate and right.


One year ago, authors Daniel J. Simons and Christopher F. Chabris, writing inThe Chronicle of Higher Education not only had some choice words for Gladwell&#8217;s cherry-picking of the research, but also showed how intuition probably only works best in certain situations, where there is no clear science or logical decision-making process to arrive at the &#8220;right&#8221; answer. For instance, when choosing which ice cream is &#8220;best.&#8221;


Reasoned analysis, however, works best in virtually every other situation. Which, as it turns out, is most situations where big life decisions come into play.
Gladwell also argues that intuition is not always right. But it&#8217;s an argument that employs circular reasoning as exemplified in the last chapter, &#8220;Listening with your eyes.&#8221; In it, he describes how orchestra auditions moved from being un-blinded (meaning the people judging the audition saw people perform their musical pieces) to blinded (meaning the judges did not view or see who played what piece).


The argument Gladwell makes from this example is that the judge&#8217;s intuition was influenced by previously-unrecognized factors &#8212; the gender of the performer, what type of musical instrument they were playing, even their race. But that intuition was eventually corrected, because we can change what our intuition tells us:**
Too often we are resigned to what happens in the blink of an eye. It doesn&#8217;t seem like we have much control over whatever bubbles to the surface from our unconscious. But we do, and if we can control the environment in which rapid cognition takes place, then we can control rapid cognition.
*​*But this is circular reasoning. We often don&#8217;t know our intuition is wrong until long after the fact, or unless we conduct a scientific experiment that shows how truly wrong it is. For hundreds of years, conductors and other judges trusted their intuition about how to choose their orchestra players and for hundreds of years, they were horribly wrong. It was only through a freak accident of chance that they learned how wrong they were, as Gladwell describes it.


We don&#8217;t know when to trust our intuition in the future, because we have only hindsight in which to see whether we were right or not.


This hardly seems like something you can hang your hat on, that you can look to always (or even ever) reasonably &#8220;control the environment&#8221; where you&#8217;re making intuitive judgments.
As Simons and Chabris &#8212; authors of the book, The Invisible Gorilla: And Other Ways Our Intuitions Deceive Us &#8212; note, trusting your intuition can have serious consequences and even put other people&#8217;s lives at jeopardy:

**Flawed intuitions about the mind extend to virtually every other domain of cognition. Consider eyewitness memory. In the vast majority of cases in which DNA evidence exonerated a death-row inmate, the original conviction was based largely on the testimony of a confident eyewitness with a vivid memory of the crime. Jurors (and everyone else) tend to intuitively trust that when people are certain, they are likely to be right.*​


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## PetFlora (Apr 20, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Nonsense. Galileo tracked the movement of stars and planets, and proof, is by definition, tangible not some mystic woo-woo that is completely un-falsifiable.


and yet, neither church nor science would accept it. So, for them, the proof was meaningless. That, and they had a population to control


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## Beefbisquit (Apr 20, 2013)

PetFlora said:


> and yet, neither church nor science would accept it. So, for them, the proof was meaningless. That, and they had a population to control


The fact that the paradigm shift wasn't instant doesn't make the catalyst, the evidence, meaningless. It completely altered how we look at our solar system, and the universe. It was the evidence that made it happen.


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## mindphuk (Apr 20, 2013)

PetFlora said:


> and yet, neither church nor science would accept it. So, for them, the proof was meaningless. That, and they had a population to control


The Church would not accept it because it contradicted dogma. Science is not a group or organization. Science neither accepts or rejects ideas, people do. Science was the method that Galileo used to come to his conclusions, which were by no means proof of anything, because the scientific method does not try to prove things, only explain to the best of our ability. Proofs are for math and spirits, not science. 

Copernicus' heliocentrism fit Galileo's observations better than the geocentric models of the day. One of the dogmatic conclusions of the geocentrists (Ptolemaic system) was that EVERYTHING orbited the earth. The fact that observations told Galileo that some things do not, specifically the moons of Jupiter. He also reasoned that the phases of Venus and the motion of sunspots were inconsistent with the Ptolemaic system.


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## New Age United (Apr 20, 2013)

Nobody recognized it, "Intuition is the ability to use memory and logic to come up with the correct answer to a practical question, it is also called recollection" This is a mistake, it is counter-intuitive, you may have saw it but you just did not trust your Intuition, it should read "Intuition is the ability to use memory and logic to come up with the correct answer to a
practical question, this is called recollection" but you just did not trust your intuition, you had the chance to prove a genius wrong but only a genius can do that, only one who trusts their Intuition can do that. 

I know that I know nothing, now lets find the Truth

"I think, therefore I am" Descartes - False, the one who says I think is not the one that says I am, "I think" (Awareness), "therefore I am" (Ego)

"I am, that I am" The Torah - Truth

That is Philosophy, I don't know what they told you in school but they just filled your head with a bunch of garbage, clear it out, you are just standing in your own way, get out of it

"What is Truth" Perhaps Jesus just didn't feel like answering the question lmfao!!!!!!!!

It's ok people, it is really nothing important at all, not at all, just go back to sleep

Laugh my fucking face off sorry sorry sorry I'm done I'm done


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## tyler.durden (Apr 20, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Nobody recognized it, "Intuition is the ability to use memory and logic to come up with the correct answer to a practical question, it is also called recollection" This is a mistake, it is counter-intuitive, you may have saw it but you just did not trust your Intuition, it should read "Intuition is the ability to use memory and logic to come up with the correct answer to a
> practical question, this is called recollection" but you just did not trust your intuition, you had the chance to prove a genius wrong but only a genius can do that, only one who trusts their Intuition can do that.
> 
> I know that I know nothing, now lets find the Truth
> ...


That's not the Torah, that's Popeye...


----------



## Heisenberg (Apr 20, 2013)

[video=youtube;2TstJ9sM_F8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TstJ9sM_F8[/video]


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 20, 2013)

[video=youtube;l8-8WJxA-cI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8-8WJxA-cI[/video]

Heis's video reminded me of this one, thought I'd share. Hopefully someone else will get a kick out of it too.


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 20, 2013)

[video=youtube;yRujuE-GIY4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRujuE-GIY4[/video]

And this one just because it's fn funny.


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 20, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> The Church would not accept it because it contradicted dogma. Science is not a group or organization. Science neither accepts or rejects ideas, *people do*.


...while holding the science (etc) banner over their heads - same way believers hold their banners. Sht, nothing's fckn changed, ever


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## kinetic (Apr 21, 2013)

let me help you with all the semantics and mumbo jumbo.

Just learn to meditate and do it daily. Don't worry about torahs and hall of halls and tablets.


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## tyler.durden (Apr 21, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Brilliant, some people are not needing of Enlightenment "you do not send a physician to those who are healthy"
> 
> Very good points from all of you on free will, philosophy at its finest





New Age United said:


> Nobody recognized it, "Intuition is the ability to use memory and logic to come up with the correct answer to a practical question, it is also called recollection" This is a mistake, it is counter-intuitive, you may have saw it but you just did not trust your Intuition, it should read "Intuition is the ability to use memory and logic to come up with the correct answer to a
> practical question, this is called recollection" but you just did not trust your intuition, you had the chance to prove a genius wrong but only a genius can do that, only one who trusts their Intuition can do that.
> 
> I know that I know nothing, now lets find the Truth
> ...



How did we fall so far so quickly?


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## PetFlora (Apr 21, 2013)

IF YOU UNDERSTAND HOW REALITY IS MANIFESTED,YOUR 'DESTINY' WILL NO LONGER BE IN THE HANDS OF THE ELITE .. WATCH


http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=274643

Those who are awake (or ready to awaken) will get it


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## Beefbisquit (Apr 21, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Nobody recognized it, "Intuition is the ability to use memory and logic to come up with the correct answer to a practical question, it is also called recollection" This is a mistake, it is counter-intuitive, you may have saw it but you just did not trust your Intuition, it should read "Intuition is the ability to use memory and logic to come up with the correct answer to a
> practical question, this is called recollection" but you just did not trust your intuition, you had the chance to prove a genius wrong but only a genius can do that, only one who trusts their Intuition can do that.


Intuition has nothing to do with logic. Regardless of how many times you mislabel something, it
doesn't make it correct. If you are going to have rational discourse with rational people, we need to use the terms we're throwing around correctly. 



> I know that I know nothing, now lets find the Truth


Thanks, Socrates. You didn't care to put that one in quotes? 



> "I think, therefore I am" Descartes - False, the one who says I think is not the one that says I am, "I think" (Awareness), "therefore I am" (Ego)


Both of those aspects of your consciousness are still both 'you'. Descartes was talking about the fact that you are even thinking means you have to exist. You can doubt your body, your friends, your family, but it's not possible to doubt your own inner dialogue. 



> "I am, that I am" The Torah - Truth
> 
> That is Philosophy, I don't know what they told you in school but they just filled your head with a bunch of garbage, clear it out, you are just standing in your own way, get out of it


I don't know what New age bullshit you've been letting your self get sucked in by, but you're a whack job.



> "What is Truth" Perhaps Jesus just didn't feel like answering the question lmfao!!!!!!!!
> 
> It's ok people, it is really nothing important at all, not at all, just go back to sleep
> 
> Laugh my fucking face off sorry sorry sorry I'm done I'm done


I think it's more likely Jesus didn't know the answer, if he even existed.


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## New Age United (Apr 21, 2013)

I am sorry people I really am, that was pretty stupid, that is true stupidity, I try to keep the Ego out of this as much as possible but it is hard it really is, do you see just how counter productive the Ego really is, that is why it is so important to keep it out of Philosophy. 

I am only trying to Enlighten you, I am only trying to Awaken the Genius in You, I Know it IS there, YOU are the KNOWER of all things, you really are, you just forgot, you just have to remember who you are, you are an Immortal Genius, you just are.

"Everything that I have told you is not for me but for you alone"

Peace,Bliss, laughter and Love that is all that fills you, let everything else just fly away, get outta here lol!!!!!!

If the Light does not have the power to change the world then nothing does


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 21, 2013)

New Age United said:


> I am sorry people I really am, that was pretty stupid, that is true stupidity, I try to keep the Ego out of this as much as possible but it is hard it really is, do you see just how counter productive the Ego really is, that is why it is so important to keep it out of Philosophy.
> 
> I am only trying to Enlighten you, I am only trying to Awaken the Genius in You, I Know it IS there, YOU are the KNOWER of all things, you really are, you just forgot, you just have to remember who you are, you are an Immortal Genius, you just are.
> 
> ...


You will awaken only when you realize this one important yet very simple thing...

You Could Be Wrong...


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## Rockster (Apr 21, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> You will awaken only when you realize this one important yet very simple thing...
> 
> You Could Be Wrong...


 Well there is no 'could' about it.

New Age United, for your info, you've come across as new age wishy washy twat, a magical thinker who talks utter rubbish and is arrogant with it but everybody is laughing at you and some may even feel a little sorry for you too.

And that's not an ad hominem but an empirical observation. I'm being honest, it's best thing I can give you, my honesty.

You've told everybody they are fools and make yourself out to be some oracle of wisdom but you are talking shite man, just so you know.

You claim to have some kind of esoteric knowledge and knowledge is demonstrable but all you've furnished is white noise.


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## Beefbisquit (Apr 21, 2013)

New Age United said:


> I am sorry people I really am, that was pretty stupid, that is true stupidity, I try to keep the Ego out of this as much as possible but it is hard it really is, do you see just how counter productive the Ego really is, that is why it is so important to keep it out of Philosophy.


I'm not convinced you understand what Philosophy is.



> I am only trying to Enlighten you, I am only trying to Awaken the Genius in You, I Know it IS there, YOU are the KNOWER of all things, you really are, you just forgot, you just have to remember who you are, you are an Immortal Genius, you just are.


First, you need to prove enlightenment exists. Then you need to prove you are enlightened. After you've done that, you need to prove that there is a 'genius' in everyone. Then you need to prove that everyone actually 'knows everything' and has only forgotten. Then after all those feats, you would have to prove your schtick about immortality. 

Only then, will anyone with any form of critical thinking faculties lend any credence to what you say. 




> "Everything that I have told you is not for me but for you alone"
> 
> Peace,Bliss, laughter and Love that is all that fills you, let everything else just fly away, get outta here lol!!!!!!
> 
> If the Light does not have the power to change the world then nothing does


----------



## Heisenberg (Apr 21, 2013)

[video=youtube;AtB-t4kBItM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtB-t4kBItM[/video]


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 21, 2013)

The Ego is why 95% of people get out of bed everyday. It's not necessarily a bad thing, it does have the potential to become repellant to others though; depending on your definition.


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## Padawanbater2 (Apr 21, 2013)

Being esoteric is what is bad, not acknowledging the ego


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 22, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Being esoteric is what is bad


...how so?


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## Heisenberg (Apr 22, 2013)

[video=youtube;g0B-cUSX57Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0B-cUSX57Q[/video]


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## New Age United (Apr 22, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> You will awaken only when you realize this one important yet very simple thing...
> 
> You Could Be Wrong...


I very well could be, that is a very good point, but even if I was, still it would not be important, but that is a very good point

"This is how I can tell that Stephen Hawkings is not a genius, he never speaks about the Truth, pie in the sky ideas, logical possibilities yes, brilliant most certainly, but completely useless, however I must add that he is fulfilling a great purpose, showing people that which is not Truth"

If Stephen Hawkings heard this, all he would do is laugh, then he would shed a tear for humanity and get back to work lol!!!!!!!

If you are familiar with his work you should be able to prove me wrong in the blink of an eye 

The answer is very simple, it always is


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## Heisenberg (Apr 22, 2013)

New Age United said:


> I very well could be, that is a very good point, but even if I was, still it would not be important, but that is a very good point
> 
> "This is how I can tell that Stephen Hawkings is not a genius, he never speaks about the Truth, pie in the sky ideas, logical possibilities yes, brilliant most certainly, but completely useless, however I must add that he is fulfilling a great purpose, showing people that which is not Truth"
> 
> ...


You are only making assertions, not arguments. All that is needed is a counter assertion.

"This is how I can tell that Stephen Hawkings is a genius, he speaks about the Truth, important ideas, logical possibilities yes, brilliant most certainly, and completely useful, however I must add that he is fulfilling a great purpose, showing people that which is Truth"

You've just been proved wrong to the same degree as you proved yourself right.


"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them." -Thomas Jefferson


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 22, 2013)

Dear New Age,

Well, there is a difference between a theory and an assertion of "truth". Philosophy plays a big part in the sciences. You really, in my opinion, can't have one without the other. It seems to me that some of the greatest scientists, politicians, theorists of any kind, could also be considered philosophers as well. You can't develop a theory without understanding logic; your logic has to be based on the best information that we have at the present time. You can develop theories about anything really, but unless it's based in some observable reality... it won't be given much credence and is almost certainly bound to be wrong. 

*I really think you'd enjoy and get a lot out of reading some works by Karl Popper.* He was not without his criticisms, and I disagree with a few of his "larger" views, but I do think it would be a great introduction to the Philosophy of Science, Epistemology, and Philosphy of Religion for you since many of your views... at least from my point of view, do not seem to be at odds with much of what he believed. Even though he has his critics, he still is respected in the field of philosophy and could most certainly help you build a framework for your ideas. 

Anyone else have any recommended reading? I'm interested myself.


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 22, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> [video=youtube;g0B-cUSX57Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0B-cUSX57Q[/video]


...I have a question. He says in the beginning of the video 'spookiness'. Why is supernatural always associated with spooky? Something other than natural seems spooky?


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 22, 2013)

*Spook
*Noun
1. Informal. a ghost; specter. 

*Ghost·ly* Adjective 1. of, characteristic of, or resembling a ghost; phantasmal; spectral. 
2. Literary. Spiritual. 

I believe he is meaning "spookiness" as synonymous with "spiritual" not as in eerie or scary.


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 22, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> I'm not convinced you understand what Philosophy is.


Most people have the wrong idea about philosophy because they've only been exposed to "sitcom" philosophy or the Intro to Philosophy class in college which, as I'm sure you'll agree, barely resembles the "real" philosophy classes you get into AFTER taking the intro class. I think Logic, Ethics, Religions, and Scientific Method should be required classes for EVERYONE in order to graduate HIGHSCHOOL.


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## Heisenberg (Apr 22, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I have a question. He says in the beginning of the video 'spookiness'. Why is supernatural always associated with spooky? Something other than natural seems spooky?


Because most people find that which they don't understand to be unnerving. The term they often use to describe the feeling happens to be "spooky". Some would simply say "startling". 

Can you think of an example of the supernatural which doesn't seem spooky or startling?


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 22, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> Because most people find that which they don't understand to be unnerving. The term they often use to describe the feeling happens to be "spooky". Some would simply say "startling".
> 
> Can you think of an example of the supernatural which doesn't seem spooky or startling?









...be right back 







...just one more sec


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 22, 2013)

...k, phew.

...I think spooky is caused by a state of mind in most instances. Spooky has varying effects according to the day a person's had. But, for every positive is there a negative? Do we know the answer intuitively? Day follows night, etc... There are delights and there are horrors, no denying that. I think it follows that there are unknowns that will always be unknown. I think our minds are powerful enough to create spooky scenarios for us to learn from - not to run from.

...here is what some believers call supernatural. Turning water into wine. The water is 'sex' and the wine is 'no longer seeing sex as a purely instinctual activity'. Nowadays this IS a supernatural feat.

-------

*thaumaturgy is a whole other story.


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## New Age United (Apr 23, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> Dear New Age,
> 
> Well, there is a difference between a theory and an assertion of "truth". Philosophy plays a big part in the sciences. You really, in my opinion, can't have one without the other. It seems to me that some of the greatest scientists, politicians, theorists of any kind, could also be considered philosophers as well. You can't develop a theory without understanding logic; your logic has to be based on the best information that we have at the present time. You can develop theories about anything really, but unless it's based in some observable reality... it won't be given much credence and is almost certainly bound to be wrong.
> 
> ...


Very respectful, not against anyone, you very well could be the most enlightened person on this thread including myself

I am sorry people I know that this may seem like white noise to some, some people just do not see, I don't know why they just don't, plain and simple they just don't

Pie in the sky ideas, he is literally the driving force of physics, if he had enough time he could complete the book, he has to go through all of the possibilities, that is the only way to find the Truth, it is all about recognizing the counter-intuitive, and finding the Intuitive, that is where the Truth lies, and he Knows that, he trusts his Intuition, that's because he is a Genius

Trust your Intuition

Logic without Intuition is a wormhole, it will lead you so far away from the Truth that you don't even know what Truth is anymore. You can spend the rest of your life chasing the thoughts inside your mind, rationalizing, reasoning, following this logic or that logic, or you can just open your eyes and see

The rational mind does not trust Intuition, the rational mind can not find the Truth, only a belief, only the Knower can Know the Truth

Logic without Intuition is very dangerous, it has you trapped inside a dream, your mind is full of garbage, clear it out, this dream it will destroy you humanity, Awaken, just open your eyes and see

"The greatest obstacle to the Truth is to believe that it does not exist" Me, I said that JK... seriously I'm kidding Ego

But it is True, the greatest obstacle to the Truth is to believe that there is no Truth


The intuitive mind is a Sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Einstein

I never made one of my discoveries through the process of rational thinking Einstein

Out of clutter, find simplicity. Einstein

"Truth is ever to be found in simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things" Newton


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## mindphuk (Apr 23, 2013)

Sounds like special pleading combined with begging the question to me. "oh, you just can't understand that's why you think I'm spouting bullshit, but in reality, if you were enlightened, you would understand how to become enlightened." 

Your capitalizing "Truth" implies unique and special knowledge, and not your mundane, objective, truth such as what Einstein and Newton were referring. If you think there is one unique "truth" you should be able to demonstrate it without your contradictory, psuedo-spiritual nonsense. You can't even use consistent definitions of words. In spite of requests, you have yet to demonstrate anything like you claim actually exists. No one's ideas need to be taken seriously on their word alone. 

You also seem to have a bone to pick with Dr. Hawking. The interesting thing is you haven't been specific but talk in circles about his supposed philosophy. You haven't even demonstrated he holds the views you attribute to him with any valid quotes or reference to _any _of his published work. The things is, he is one man. Though some may agree with his views, many may not. What's the point of attacking him in threads that haven't even mentioned him? Start a thread on Hawking if you want, but your attacks seem disjointed and out-of-place in the discussions where I have seen you make them. 

I'm sure some of this may be due to smoking a lot before posting, but I wonder if sometimes you forgot to take your other meds. That wasn't meant as a cheap shot either but an honest appraisal based on people I know very well.


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## Beefbisquit (Apr 24, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Very respectful, not against anyone, you very well could be the most enlightened person on this thread including myself
> 
> *I am sorry people I know that this may seem like white noise to some, some people just do not see, I don't know why they just don't, plain and simple they just don't*
> 
> ...



As MP stated, for someone who claims to have achieved enlightenment and wants to show other people the way, you know very little about it, why it works, how it works, and what is taking place, etc. You can't even explain why some people _are _and some people _aren't _enlightened, yet you expect people to drink your Kool-aid without so much as a hiccup? If that's what you expect you are not living in reality.

What do you intuit from these two scenarios?

A train, its brakes failed, is rushing toward five people. The only way to save the five people is to throw the switch sitting next to you, which will turn the train onto a side track, thereby preventing it from killing the five people. However, there is a stranger standing on the side track with his back turned, and if you proceed to thrown the switch, the five people will be saved, but the person on the side track will be killed.

A train, its brakes failed, is rushing toward five people. The only way to save the five people is to throw the switch sitting next to you, which will turn the train onto a side track, thereby preventing it from killing the five people. However, there is a 12-year-old boy standing on the side track with his back turned, and if you proceed to throw the switch, the five people will be saved, but the boy on the side track will be killed.

Would you flip the train to the side tracks, or allow the five people to die?


Now ponder this scenario;


A brilliant transplant surgeon has five patients, each in need of a different organ, each of whom will die without that organ. Unfortunately, there are no organs available to perform any of these five transplant operations. A healthy young traveler, just passing through the city the doctor works in, comes in for a routine checkup. In the course of doing the checkup, the doctor discovers that his organs are compatible with all five of his dying patients. Can the surgeon take the life of the healthy young traveler to save the five other people?

To claim something is intuitive is to claim there is a definitive right or wrong answer, which is simply not the case in many thought experiments. If ethics were intuitive then everyone would feel the same way about abortion, or gay marriage. We clearly don't, and ethics are clearly not intuitive.


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 25, 2013)

...interesting tidbit on intuition. The heart sends more information to the brain than the brain sends to the heart.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 25, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...interesting tidbit on intuition. The heart sends more information to the brain than the brain sends to the heart.


Contrary to popular belief... the heart is merely a hollow muscular organ that pumps blood through the circulatory system by rhythmic contraction and dilation. It is a pump... nothing more, nothing less.

Actually, a few months ago some new ager was trying to explain to me just how exactly the heart was responsable for many different emotions, until i showed and explained to him this... (in which case he had no idea this even existed)



As i continued on asking him just how an artificially made heart could make you feel emotion, and also if you did get one... if you would stop feeling emotion.

It all ended with him getting very upset with me, and blocking and deleting me. Lol!

Ohhhh new agers, why you do dis?!


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## Mister Sister (Apr 25, 2013)

We're all in this ship together. We are all wrong and we are all correct. Our thoughts and ideas are only a pinpoint snapshot of a much grander story. Does it matter who's wrong now, if that person is right later? If you are correct right now, does that mean you'll still be correct in the future?

Yet we all see another person's opinion and dismiss or ridicule it. I believe there is strength in our differences, and I challenge everyone reading this thread, myself included, to take an argument you disagree with and find truth in it. Fresh baked cookies for all.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 25, 2013)

Mister Sister said:


> We are all wrong and we are all correct.


I do not agree with that. lol! 

I think most of us humans like to think we are correct... and that some people are and some aren't. In the totality of our brief existence on this planet, hopefully on others, as the universe gets older and older and starts to cool...inevitably our race is destined to die out, nothing REALLY matters lol. So no i don't think it matters who is right or wrong about questions that no one can provide us with an answer to begin with. But it does matter once we get into ideas that will effect our well-being and health. Such as faith healing or crystal healing etc.

I don't think everyone here is dismissing and ridiculing ideas and opinions, i think a lot of people here have a lot to offer. Some really neat ideas and concepts, they give us more opportunities to learn from each other and widen our horizon of thought. 

I do agree though, that there is strength in our differences. Our differences make us unique to one another, how boring would it be if we all thought the same way, right?


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## New Age United (Apr 25, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I do not agree with that. lol!
> 
> I think most of us humans like to think we are correct... and that some people are and some aren't. In the totality of our brief existence on this planet, hopefully on others, as the universe gets older and older and starts to cool...inevitably our race is destined to die out, nothing REALLY matters lol. So no i don't think it matters who is right or wrong about questions that no one can provide us with an answer to begin with. But it does matter once we get into ideas that will effect our well-being and health. Such as faith healing or crystal healing etc.
> 
> ...


Very well said, and I am not trying to change anybody, but some people are suffering and this stuff really does help them, some people don't feel comfortable enough to be themselves. Yes our differences are a very good thing.


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## New Age United (Apr 25, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> To claim something is intuitive is to claim there is a definitive right or wrong answer, which is simply not the case in many thought experiments. If ethics were intuitive then everyone would feel the same way about abortion, or gay marriage. We clearly don't, and ethics are clearly not intuitive.


Genius, true genius, it really is, I agree completely that ethics is not intuitive, it is not part of the intellect.


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## Beefbisquit (Apr 25, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> As MP stated, for someone who claims to have achieved enlightenment and wants to show other people the way, you know very little about it, why it works, how it works, and what is taking place, etc. You can't even explain why some people _are _and some people _aren't _enlightened, yet you expect people to drink your Kool-aid without so much as a hiccup? If that's what you expect you are not living in reality.
> 
> What do you intuit from these two scenarios?
> 
> ...



I'm actually hoping for an answer on these, btw...

What would you do, and why?


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## New Age United (Apr 25, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I have a question. He says in the beginning of the video 'spookiness'. Why is supernatural always associated with spooky? Something other than natural seems spooky?


"The world is full of weariness, a man can not utter it" The Torah

What are you afraid of, there is nothing to be afraid of, pain comes and goes and death is very Peaceful


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## New Age United (Apr 25, 2013)

kinetic said:


> let me help you with all the semantics and mumbo jumbo.
> 
> Just learn to meditate and do it daily. Don't worry about torahs and hall of halls and tablets.


I do understand what you're saying and that does help many people so that is an avenue that you may want to explore, another thing you may want to try is accupuncture, but make sure that it is performed by a Chinese Traditionalist or someone who has studied it, it is not a science it takes a very keen sense to be Aware of what is going on in the Chi.

There is no hall of halls, this is not Valhalla, Odin's wrath will be unleashed if you do not listen to me people I swear it will lol!!!!!

It's ok people don't you ever worry about me, I am in Paradise, why aren't you in Paradise I don't get it, this place is beautiful, it is absolutely perfect, everywhere you look perfect, I am the richest man in the world, I have a Glorius Kingdom I really do, I'm not trying to change anybody, rather just ease your suffering by showing you what I see

But I do not use meditation I get 6-10 hours a night and that is plenty enough for me.


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 25, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Contrary to popular belief... the heart is merely a hollow muscular organ that pumps blood through the circulatory system by rhythmic contraction and dilation. It is a pump... nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> Actually, a few months ago some new ager was trying to explain to me just how exactly the heart was responsable for many different emotions, until i showed and explained to him this... (in which case he had no idea this even existed)
> 
> ...


...bah, does it or does it not send more info than vice-versa?


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## New Age United (Apr 25, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...bah, does it or does it not send more info than vice-versa?


The Heart in your sense is a strictly Spiritual thing, and let me give you my opinion, keep in mind that at least one half of Enlightenment is purely Spiritual and not Philisophical. 

The Soul is the individual human form, and is of course "Mortal", you have a Heart(sub-conscious) and a mind(conscious), and the sub-conscious is the faculty of all emotion, and thus does have a tremendous effect on the conscious, in fact anything that is not intellect is effected by the Heart, ie Ethics, your morality is very much governed by your "emotional intuition", love/hate, right/wrong, kindness/meaness, good/evil, these things all exist in the Heart, but they most certainly can have a great effect on the mind, they can take complete control of your mind and thus control your "will", in fact the majority of human action is controlled by the Heart. 

Basically anything that does not take place on an intellectual level is influenced by the Heart, it is an absolutely vital part of the human experience. 

"A sword will pierce even your own Soul, to the very end, so that the Thoughts from many Hearts may be revealed" The New Testament

"I swear oh lord, their eyes you have closed, to this day you have not opened them, this people's Heart is waxed, and their ears are dull from hearing, lest at anytime they should hear the word, and see with their eyes, and "KNOW" with their Hearts, and I shall heal them"

The Spirit is YOU, Awareness, pure Awareness, untouched by time, you are Eternal, you are One with Space, NO FORM, Indestructible, the Light does not die, Immortal Spirit, Mortal Soul.

"I will clear a Space for you in the darkness and fill it with Light, where you will shine for all Eternity" Jesus, not his exact words, I do that sometimes and there is a reason. 

"If anyone adds or takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away that person&#8217;s share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book"

The very end of The New Testament, the reason why it says this is because the Roman Empire is trying to gain control over the minds of the masses in the 4th century AD, it doesn't want anyone messing with it and revealing the Truth to which Jesus was trying to convey.

Cause and effect, trust your Intuition, it is a genius.


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## New Age United (Apr 25, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> I'm actually hoping for an answer on these, btw...
> 
> What would you do, and why?


In the case of the train, Silence, no action.

In the case of the surgeon no I would not take the travelers life, murder is not just in my "opinion"

Actually you know what, I can't honestly say that, in the case of a serious situation, such as Hitler, murder is justified.


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 25, 2013)

New Age United said:


> The Heart in your sense is a strictly Spiritual thing, and let me give you my opinion, keep in mind that at least one half of Enlightenment is purely Spiritual and not Philisophical.
> 
> The Soul is the individual human form, and is of course "Mortal", you have a Heart(sub-conscious) and a mind(conscious), and the sub-conscious is the faculty of all emotion, and thus does have a tremendous effect on the conscious, in fact anything that is not intellect is effected by the Heart, ie Ethics, your morality is very much governed by your "emotional intuition", love/hate, right/wrong, kindness/meaness, good/evil, these things all exist in the Heart, but they most certainly can have a great effect on the mind, they can take complete control of your mind and thus control your "will", in fact the majority of human action is controlled by the Heart.
> 
> ...


...for me the key thing is the fact that, in terms of 'hierarchy', the heart is in the middle of a person's structure. Below that is the motor-instinctual; above the two is the conscious bit. The middle is the mediator, it's that point between something and nothing. Think of how much info there is in the blood. Then think about how it communicates to the brain.

When someone calls your name do your point at your house or car and say "who, me?" Nope, you point at your chest when that happens. Must be mind control


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## New Age United (Apr 25, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...for me the key thing is the fact that, in terms of 'hierarchy', the heart is in the middle of a person's structure. Below that is the motor-instinctual; above the two is the conscious bit. The middle is the mediator, it's that point between something and nothing. Think of how much info there is in the blood. Then think about how it communicates to the brain.
> 
> When someone calls your name do your point at your house or car and say "who, me?" Nope, you point at your chest when that happens. Must be mind control


You are a Spiritually Intuitive person, and trust me that is much more valuable than everything else combined it really is. Another thing you may notice is that when you are being honest you will hold your hand to your chest(Heart), but when you lie you will throw your hands away from you, as if you are pushing the lie away from you.


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## New Age United (Apr 26, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> Sounds like special pleading combined with begging the question to me. "oh, you just can't understand that's why you think I'm spouting bullshit, but in reality, if you were enlightened, you would understand how to become enlightened."
> 
> Your capitalizing "Truth" implies unique and special knowledge, and not your mundane, objective, truth such as what Einstein and Newton were referring. If you think there is one unique "truth" you should be able to demonstrate it without your contradictory, psuedo-spiritual nonsense. You can't even use consistent definitions of words. In spite of requests, you have yet to demonstrate anything like you claim actually exists. No one's ideas need to be taken seriously on their word alone.
> 
> ...


Ok mindphuk, I have found the one who wants to prove me wrong, congrats, I give you this challenge, PROVE ME WRONG. No Ego, whatsover, there are counter-intuitives placed in my logic, find them, but prove me wrong and I will call myself a fool and you a genius.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 26, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Ok mindphuk, I have found the one who wants to prove me wrong, congrats, I give you this challenge, PROVE ME WRONG. No Ego, whatsover, there are counter-intuitives placed in my logic, find them, but prove me wrong and I will call myself a fool and you a genius.


1. How do you know with certainty... that your ideas are true?

2. How do you know with certainty that this is not a dream?

The truthful answer to those two simple questions is that _you don't know, you can't be sure_. But i am sure you will come up with something to avoid acknowledging the right answer. 

It's not anyone's responsibility to prove _YOU_ wrong, it's your responsibility to prove _YOU_ right. 






How can you be so sure of your ideas.. if you can't even figure out whether or not this is a dream?

.../sigh


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## New Age United (Apr 26, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> 1. How do you know with certainty... that your ideas are true?
> 
> 2. How do you know with certainty that this is not a dream?
> 
> ...


Life is a dream, I am the dreamer not the dream, but I do take your point to heart, it is exactly that, my responsibility, unfortunately I have absolutely no interest in proving my point to those who can not see what I am saying. 

I am sorry people I have failed you, this is not Paradise it is hell, it is hell I tell you, this is a dead universe tick tick tick. We are just germs crawling on a rock, over evolved monkeys

Oh people just open your eyes lol!!!!!


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## *BUDS (Apr 26, 2013)

> this is not Paradise it is hell, it is hell I tell you, this is a dead universe tick tick tick. We are just germs crawling on a rock, over evolved monkeys


 You are a typical brainwashed religious ratbag.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 26, 2013)

New Age United said:


> this is not Paradise it is hell, it is hell I tell you, this is a dead universe tick tick tick. We are just germs crawling on a rock, over evolved monkeys


So if that's the case... what is the point of it all?


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## mindphuk (Apr 26, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Ok mindphuk, I have found the one who wants to prove me wrong, congrats, I give you this challenge, PROVE ME WRONG. No Ego, whatsover, there are counter-intuitives placed in my logic, find them, but prove me wrong and I will call myself a fool and you a genius.


So typical of the mindset of the 'believer,' misrepresent any and all criticism of your position as a desire to prove you wrong. Where in my post did I insinuate that was my intended goal? Why can't you just man up and answer the questions like what specifically about Hawking do you dislike? 
When people make a claim, it is up to the claimant to convince others that what they are saying has merit. It is not up to those listening to have to prove that what is said is wrong. If you want people to listen to you, you should be offering compelling reasons to do so, and that includes supporting your position with reason and evidence, or at the very least, convincing arguments, otherwise it is just rambling, white noise. 

I have an invisible, pink unicorn in the trunk of my car. Prove me wrong. 

Holding onto an untenable idea because others cannot prove it wrong does not make it right or truth or even worthy of expression on a pot growing website. Logic 101. Asking me to prove you wrong rather than you taking the time to answer questions and support your position tells me all I need to know about your 'logic' and the merits of your opinions.


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## Beefbisquit (Apr 27, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> So typical of the mindset of the 'believer,' misrepresent any and all criticism of your position as a desire to prove you wrong. Where in my post did I insinuate that was my intended goal? Why can't you just man up and answer the questions like what specifically about Hawking do you dislike?
> When people make a claim, it is up to the claimant to convince others that what they are saying has merit. It is not up to those listening to have to prove that what is said is wrong. If you want people to listen to you, you should be offering compelling reasons to do so, and that includes supporting your position with reason and evidence, or at the very least, convincing arguments, otherwise it is just rambling, white noise.
> 
> I have an invisible, pink unicorn in the trunk of my car. Prove me wrong.
> ...



Summed up very succinctly. +Rep!


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## New Age United (Apr 27, 2013)

*BUDS said:


> You are a typical brainwashed religious ratbag.


I am not religious, and if we were face to face you would get knocked


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## New Age United (Apr 27, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> So if that's the case... what is the point of it all?


I was being sarcastic


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## New Age United (Apr 27, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> So typical of the mindset of the 'believer,' misrepresent any and all criticism of your position as a desire to prove you wrong. Where in my post did I insinuate that was my intended goal? Why can't you just man up and answer the questions like what specifically about Hawking do you dislike?
> When people make a claim, it is up to the claimant to convince others that what they are saying has merit. It is not up to those listening to have to prove that what is said is wrong. *If you want people to listen to you,* you should be offering compelling reasons to do so, and that includes supporting your position with reason and evidence, or at the very least, convincing arguments, otherwise it is just rambling, white noise.
> 
> *I have an invisible, pink unicorn in the trunk of my car. Prove me wrong. *
> ...


Very well said, and I have absolutely no interest in having you listen to me or to convince of things you do not want to be convinced of, that would be egocentricity, the original question was "Is there anyone who would like to recieve Spiritual Enlightenment", it looks like the answer is no lol!!!!

It's ok people it is really not important


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## Padawanbater2 (Apr 27, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Accepting Jesus Christ is the true path to enlightenment
> 
> John 8:12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
> 
> Just say "Jesus save me" and believe and receive true enlightenment and gain eternal life in paradise


Organized religion teaches hate and creates division, we would be thousands of years ahead without it


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## mindphuk (Apr 27, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Very well said,and I have absolutely no interest in having you listen to me or to convince of things you do not want to be convinced of, that would be egocentricity, the original question was "Is there anyone who would like to recieve Spiritual Enlightenment", it looks like the answer is no lol!!!!
> 
> It's ok people it is really not important


Thank you for the compliment, but it's really just a version of Carl Sagan's dragon in my garage from Demon Haunted World - http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Dragon_in_My_Garage

I do want to be convinced of cool things like magic and life after death. There are certainly some gods that I would think would be cool if they were real. I would like spiritual enlightenment, that's the point of all of the initial criticism. You claim to offer it but really don't. You have made attempts to possibly explain what you have done but in a way that makes absolutely no sense. It's as if the words you choose mean something else to you at times than how most people use them. You have been given examples. The courteous nature in which you reply at times is definitely a trait that you should strive to keep, it really is a nice change from some of the regulars here. It actually would be great if you get your patience and friendliness from your spirituality, it would make wanting to learn something from you enticing. 

I guess what I would love to hear from you is an honest examination of the criticism you have been given and to see if you can try to rephrase and/or expand on some of these concepts. You really have yet to address most of the questions and criticisms. Hopefully, there's enough there that you should find something constructive. 

I would like to suggest a book, _Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. _Have you read it? 

And for meditation, I really liked _Wherever You Go There You Are._ 
http://www.amazon.com/Wherever-You-There-Are-ROUGH/dp/1401307787


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## New Age United (Apr 27, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> Accepting Jesus Christ is the true path to enlightenment
> 
> John 8:12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
> 
> Just say "Jesus save me" and believe and receive true enlightenment and gain eternal life in paradise


Has Jesus truly saved you, Jesus was nailed to a cross long long ago, in his words lies salvation, but he will not come down from Heaven and lift you up, his words were meant to give you Eternal Life, but have you truly found it. I mean no offense and if you wish to go this road, then perhaps that is the road you should go.


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## New Age United (Apr 27, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Organized religion teaches hate and creates division, we would be thousands of years ahead without it


From my book. "Religion and capitalism are perhaps the two most severe and productive evils on the face of the planet, both must fall if humanity is to reach its full potential", we can learn great lessons from both religion and capitalism, but we need to do away with both. "religion and capitalism is not the problem, it is in your Hearts humanity, it is your nature, and if used properly both could work wonders for you"


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## New Age United (Apr 27, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> Thank you for the compliment, but it's really just a version of Carl Sagan's dragon in my garage from Demon Haunted World - http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Dragon_in_My_Garage
> 
> I do want to be convinced of cool things like magic and life after death. There are certainly some gods that I would think would be cool if they were real. I would like spiritual enlightenment, that's the point of all of the initial criticism. You claim to offer it but really don't. You have made attempts to possibly explain what you have done but in a way that makes absolutely no sense. It's as if the words you choose mean something else to you at times than how most people use them. You have been given examples. The courteous nature in which you reply at times is definitely a trait that you should strive to keep, it really is a nice change from some of the regulars here. It actually would be great if you get your patience and friendliness from your spirituality, it would make wanting to learn something from you enticing.
> 
> ...


When I get some time I will go over some of the responses and try to give an ego free analysis of them, I have been pinched and will try to give more insight into the subject, and your opinions are always welcome, I do still have quite the ego, as I mentioned at the start, I try to keep it out as much as possible, it can be detrimental to the message.


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## New Age United (Apr 27, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> I would like to suggest a book, _Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. _Have you read it?
> 
> And for meditation, I really liked _Wherever You Go There You Are._
> http://www.amazon.com/Wherever-You-There-Are-ROUGH/dp/1401307787


I noticed two great Truths expressed here, Zen and the art of motorcycle mechanics, and yes I am speaking about the state of Zen, "No Thought", "No Soul", which may sound very dark to some, but is actually the freedom from darkness. Do not think of Immortality and genius as grandiose things, it is vital if you want to attain Enlightenment to let go of those ideas, it is nothing grandiose at all. "he who exalts himself will be humbled and he who humbles himself will be exalted" Jesus
I am pure country, I work on my truck all the time and can't wait to get another bike, and mechanics or any other skill is much more effecient when practiced in the state of Zen, the Ego is detrimental to anything. 

The other great Truth I noticed is, "whereever you go, there you are"

Here's an eye opener for you, a monkey is enlightened, you can not insult a monkey, if you want to learn Enlightenment kids are very good teachers, animals are even better teachers, plants are better teachers still, but the greatest teacher of all is a rock, just Be


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## New Age United (Apr 27, 2013)

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. ~Carl Sagan

This is the Truth for me aswell, there is no point in bs, but the Truth always has a purpose, but you have to chew it up real good because it can be hard to swallow, but this I can say from experiece, it will set you free.


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## tyler.durden (Apr 27, 2013)

New Age United said:


> I noticed two great Truths expressed here, Zen and the art of motorcycle mechanics, and yes I am speaking about the state of Zen, "No Thought", "No Soul", which may sound very dark to some, but is actually the freedom from darkness. Do not think of Immortality and genius as grandiose things, it is vital if you want to attain Enlightenment to let go of those ideas, it is nothing grandiose at all. "he who exalts himself will be humbled and he who humbles himself will be exalted" Jesus
> I am pure country, I work on my truck all the time and can't wait to get another bike, and mechanics or any other skill is much more effecient when practiced in the state of Zen,* the Ego is detrimental to anything. *


The Ego was necessary for most of the progress mankind has made. Scientists, philosophers, artists, engineers, architects - their work was/is not driven mainly by altruism, but for their own satisfaction, i.e. their egos. The fact that we benefit from their work is incidental. Of course, too much ego or an ego out of balance isn't healthy... 



> The other great Truth I noticed is, "whereever you go, there you are"


C'mon, dude. I wouldn't consider this a great truth, this is a Mr. Brady bit (at :45 seconds in) - 

[video=youtube;3LYO1LMVmO4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LYO1LMVmO4[/video]

In fact, a lot of your advice sounds similar to that...



> Here's an eye opener for you, a monkey is enlightened, you can not insult a monkey, if you want to learn Enlightenment kids are very good teachers, animals are even better teachers, plants are better teachers still, but the greatest teacher of all is a rock, just Be


If this is your idea of enlightenment, I don't see any rational people choosing to attain it. By your logic, you'd be more enlightened after shooting yourself in the head. Why not explain _how_ plants and rocks are enlightened and good teachers?



New Age United said:


> For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. ~Carl Sagan
> 
> This is the Truth for me aswell, there is no point in bs, but the Truth always has a purpose, but you have to chew it up real good because it can be hard to swallow, but this I can say from experiece, it will set you free.


It hurts me when you use Sagan in an attempt to legitimize your position. Sagan was a scientist, and 'The Universe as it Really Is' means something entirely different to him than it does to you. He employed the scientific method and empirical evidence to form his beliefs, while you apparently studied something you liked and decided that it was true. You are not even able to adequately explain why you hold your beliefs, much less why anyone should consider them...


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## New Age United (Apr 28, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> The Ego was necessary for most of the progress mankind has made. Scientists, philosophers, artists, engineers, architects - their work was/is not driven mainly by altruism, but for their own satisfaction, i.e. their egos. The fact that we benefit from their work is incidental. Of course, too much ego or an ego out of balance isn't healthy...


Most certainly, the ego is a great driving force and it is a balance, you nailed that on the head, however it is becoming less necessary and can be quite counter productive, the Ego will always be a necessary part of the mind, it is important not to be a coward or to take shit off of people, it does have it's purpose, the thing is it is out of balance and is much more destructive that it is productive, in my "opinion".

I can tell you are a very intelligent person just by this response


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## New Age United (Apr 28, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> The Ego was necessary for most of the progress mankind has made. Scientists, philosophers, artists, engineers, architects - their work was/is not driven mainly by altruism, but for their own satisfaction, i.e. their egos. The fact that we benefit from their work is incidental. Of course, too much ego or an ego out of balance isn't healthy...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's hilarious actually lmfao!!!!, hey man you can find wisom in the oddest of places, how the hell do you know that lol!!!!!!


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## New Age United (Apr 28, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> If this is your idea of enlightenment, I don't see any rational people choosing to attain it. By your logic, you'd be more enlightened after shooting yourself in the head. Why not explain _how_ plants and rocks are enlightened and good teachers?


They have no Ego, they have no need of superiority, very good point about being more enlightened after shooting yourself in the head, as a matter of fact you would be lol!!!!!!!!!!!, it's ok you can always choose your own path, I am not trying to force anything on anybody


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## New Age United (Apr 28, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> It hurts me when you use Sagan in an attempt to legitimize your position. Sagan was a scientist, and 'The Universe as it Really Is' means something entirely different to him than it does to you. He employed the scientific method and empirical evidence to form his beliefs, while you apparently studied something you liked and decided that it was true. You are not even able to adequately explain why you hold your beliefs, much less why anyone should consider them...


Why does it hurt you lol!!!!!, what is so important in this world that this would hurt you, just wait until you lose a loved one, that is true pain. I am a scientist as well, and no it means the exact same, the universe as it is and not as we imagine it to be, just open your eyes, he found truth and that destoyed his beliefs, I do not have any beliefs, my eyes are wide open, and I really could care less if you or anyone else should consider what I see


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## New Age United (Apr 28, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> In fact, a lot of your advice sounds similar to that...


Ego, you kept it to a minimum, you are already enlightened, you do not need my help


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 28, 2013)

New Age United said:


> I do not have any beliefs


So... are you telling us the truth? That you don't know what happens when we die? That you aren't sure if we continue to exist in an afterlife or cease to be? Because if you are, that's a pretty big step.


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## New Age United (Apr 28, 2013)

It is a pretty big step, and I understand your speculation, and it is strictly my opinion, but my intellectual intuition tells me that it is just like sleep, loss of consciousness, but that does not mean that who you are ceases, it simply means that the material world, sense perception has left you. If you are very alert, you can actually sense your own Awareness, even during a deep sleep, a counter intuitive, how are you very alert during sleep, it is relative, if you are alert enough, but therein lies the Truth, and I thank you for this because I have never thought of it, perhaps that little bit of Awareness goes out in death, and thus we cease to exist, but that is not the Immortality of which I speak to begin with, you(Awareness) are not fleeting as the things and events of this world are, another paradox, the rock was hear before you came and will be here long after you go, but you are not form, you are formless, you are One with the whole of Space, you are what allows the universe to exist, you are not touched by time, you are the timeless which allows time to exist, you are One with the totality, you are Eternity itself. By opinion I mean uncertaintity, but by belief I would mean something that I hold as absolute Truth.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 28, 2013)

So.... in you last reply you state "i do not have any beliefs"

and then you go into great detail to explain your beliefs....

Seems legit, lol!

Wouldn't you think, believing with certainty that you continue to exist after you die is a tad bit egocentric and conceited?


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## NietzscheKeen (Apr 28, 2013)

OMG I will kill everyone in the world!


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 28, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> So.... in you last reply you state "i do not have any beliefs"
> 
> and then you go into great detail to explain your beliefs....
> 
> ...


Its just as egotistical to claim that its impossible to know these things that you find so silly, then try to force others to accept this core belief of yours...

You were starting to express this idea as an opinion rather than fact, what happened?


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## Beefbisquit (Apr 29, 2013)

Certainty, in terms of a scientific experiment, doesn't exist. Only probability. 

Certainty, in terms of general everyday discussion is different. I'm 'certain' that when I drop a book, it will fall. I shouldn't have to tell you that there's actually a 99.999, ad infinitum, percent chance of it falling. 

I'm not scientifically certain that god doesn't exist, it's not possible to check everywhere in existence at the same time; but I've seen absolutely zero events that couldn't be explained by something else more likely than 'god'.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 29, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Certainty, in terms of a scientific experiment, doesn't exist. Only probability.
> 
> Certainty, in terms of general everyday discussion is different. I'm 'certain' that when I drop a book, it will fall. I shouldn't have to tell you that there's actually a 99.999, ad infinitum, percent chance of it falling.
> 
> I'm not scientifically certain that god doesn't exist, it's not possible to check everywhere in existence at the same time; but I've seen absolutely zero events that couldn't either be explained by something else more likely than 'god'.


Exactly my point, thank you very much Beef


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## New Age United (May 1, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Certainty, in terms of a scientific experiment, doesn't exist. Only probability.
> 
> Certainty, in terms of general everyday discussion is different. I'm 'certain' that when I drop a book, it will fall. I shouldn't have to tell you that there's actually a 99.999, ad infinitum, percent chance of it falling.
> 
> I'm not scientifically certain that god doesn't exist, it's not possible to check everywhere in existence at the same time; but I've seen absolutely zero events that couldn't be explained by something else more likely than 'god'.


I agree 100%, I am, I exist, that is the only thing I am absolutely certain of, I always feel like saying "strictly my opinion" before I say anything but that would get pretty annoying, even to myself. For everything else I must trust my Intuition to tell me what is true, what is right and wrong, and I do, absolutely, I wouldn't be able to function without it, I know that you are Aware just as I am, I just Know, even though it is a possibility that you are not, I just Know you are, I was born with that knowledge. We may never be able to prove the Theory of Relativity, but it makes absolute sense to me, and that is good enough, no God, no Supreme Being at all, it is hard to explain my opinion when it is not derived from the usual context of what God and Spirituality is, some people do understand quite clearly, some people trust there own opinions more than mine, and I have no problem with that whatsoever, it is not my responsibility to change your mind, I am simply offering my view of things, perhaps you would call that a belief, there you go, I have beliefs, I will still call them opinions, I prefer the universe as it is and not as I want it to be.

What is Truth? Maybe Jesus didn't know how to answer, maybe he had an opinion but just didn't feel like giving it, perhaps the Truth is not important.

Or perhaps the Truth is not an answer to a question at all, but is something much bigger. Try to imagine heaven, try to imagine absolute perfection, wow law of attraction, I just opened my eyes and what do you know, I see Heaven, I see perfection, it could not possibly get any better than this, this is Paradise

What do you know, the universe as I imagine it could not come close to the universe as it actually is, I can have faith in Jesus and God all I want, I can believe in Truth and Immortality all I want, but it will not get me any closer to Paradise than I am right now

I do not need a million dollars, who the hell needs a million dollars, I can't say that if I won the lotto I wouldn't be happy as hell, but I'm not gonna dream of the future, I would rather just live in Paradise right Now


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## New Age United (May 1, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> So.... in you last reply you state "i do not have any beliefs"
> 
> and then you go into great detail to explain your beliefs....
> 
> ...


I can understand how it would come off as egocentric and conceited, but I am not forcing anything on you, I am simply giving you my opinion, you are always free to think for yourself, but if not for the millions that came before us, we would be thinking like mokeys, and I have been enlightened and humbled by many of the responses I have read. Ego is conceited, when someone does not respect your opinions just bc they are not the same as yours, it is a natural reaction to not respect their either, and that is why the ego is so counter productive in philosophy. When the Johavas Witness' come to my door I always talk to them for a good half hour about their beliefs, I know that they have a rock hard shell against any oposition, so I don't even bother, when they say that the world is getting worse and worse and these are the end times, I always feel like saying when was the last time you heard of someone being nailed to a stick, when was the last time you heard of people being thrown into the Coleseum to be torn apart by lions and gladiators, I actually have to remind them that according to their own beliefs Armageddon is not actually the end of the world. I can understand their position, there is still a ton of evil taking place in the world, perhaps evil is rising and this is only the beginning, but in my "opinion", completly uncertain and not "believing" in that which I can not be certain of, Armageddon is a necessary evil, a very necessary evil, blessed are the meek for they shall inherit this Earth, strictly my opinion. My opinions do change, I am open to change, I can accept uncertaintity, but that does not mean I will change my opinion everytime I hear another one, and neither should anybody, that is not egocentric or conceited.


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## New Age United (May 1, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Its just as egotistical to claim that its impossible to know these things that you find so silly, then try to force others to accept this core belief of yours...
> 
> You were starting to express this idea as an opinion rather than fact, what happened?


I understand your position, and as I believe Nietzsche mentioned earlier in the thread, "there is a big difference between a theory and an ascertaining of Truth", and it is a theory, but one that makes absolute sense to me. It is derived from Intuition, just as Calculus is derived from Intuition, anyone who knows Calculus knows how important recognizing the counter-intuitive and finding the Intuitive is, it has to make absolute sense in order to be taken as a fact. But as mentioned by beefbisquit certainity in science does not exist, only a probability, my theory can not possibly be proven, but I am absolutely certain of what I see with my own eyes, just as I know that the book will fall, so to do I know that this is Paradise.


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## Zaehet Strife (May 1, 2013)

Edit: When i use the term "belief" i am strictly speaking of supernatural beliefs.

If you can't prove with certainty that, for example "the devil" isn't giving you these experiences and ideas in order to trick you into believing something, or your brain isn't just accepting the ideas that you find most comforting, or whether or not this is a dream or some sort of computer simulation...

how can you be sure that your beliefs are certain at all, if the possibility exists that you could be wrong? This seems extremely dishonest.

I think, in order to be honest with yourself... you must never be too overconfident about your beliefs, because they always contain the possibility of being wrong.... if you have the courage to think deep enough about it.




Now i can understand having a belief, and believing in it because that is what you feel is right and because it's what makes you feel good. The thing i don't get is... the whole pretending that it is certainly true, when you know deep down that it could be wrong. _This is where the fear comes in, the fear of beliefs being wrong... makes you pretend that they are certainly right._

When the more courageous and less egotistical standpoint would be; 

"Honestly, i don't know if my beliefs are true or not, but i am going to believe in them regardless. If you don't... whatever, i still do because it's what i want to do." <--- now THAT... is honesty, and is something i truly admire in a person... although it is extremely rare to find.




Note:
Maybe it's only those of us burdened with the ability to remember our dreams so vividly that sometimes we cannot discern the difference between dream and reality...where one begins and the other ends, who can truly entertain the idea of reality being different from what we want it to be, or what we think it is. But i don't know, there could be others... i've just never had the privilege of meeting them.


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## Heisenberg (May 1, 2013)

None of us has all the information. We are constantly getting new information. New scientific info, new experiences, new perspectives, and new context. This alone should cause a person to, at least periodically, evaluate their beliefs. Those who hold onto old beliefs without ever updating stand a greater chance of being wrong as time passes. Without evolving our certainties, beliefs become prejudices or superstitions. This may seem like common sense but it happens every day. 


&#8221;For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise.&#8221; &#8211;Ben Franklin


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## Beefbisquit (May 2, 2013)

New Age United said:


> I understand your position, and as I believe Nietzsche mentioned earlier in the thread, "there is a big difference between a theory and an ascertaining of Truth", and it is a theory, but one that makes absolute sense to me. It is derived from Intuition, just as Calculus is derived from Intuition, anyone who knows Calculus knows how important recognizing the counter-intuitive and finding the Intuitive is, it has to make absolute sense in order to be taken as a fact. But as mentioned by beefbisquit certainity in science does not exist, only a probability, my theory can not possibly be proven, *but I am absolutely certain of what I see with my own eyes,* just as I know that the book will fall, so to do I know that this is Paradise.


Do you know how easy it is to deceive the eyes? Incredibly. 

What your eyes see is an interpretation of photons hitting receptors, it's pretty easy to disrupt those signals in various ways via drugs, or electromagnetic stimulation. Dr. Michael Persinger has the ability to make you see, and feel, all sorts of visuals and emotions over a wide range spanning from the deepest joy and sense of belonging with the universe, to dread and ultimate fear. He can make you feel or even see, 'god' or 'the devil'.

Your senses can be manipulated quite easily by interference; in fact there's no way to intuit or tell if we're in a simulation right now. What you're seeing and touching, interacting with could all be fake and you'd have no way of knowing,


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 2, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Edit: When i use the term "belief" i am strictly speaking of supernatural beliefs.
> 
> If you can't prove with certainty that, for example "the devil" isn't giving you these experiences and ideas in order to trick you into believing something, or your brain isn't just accepting the ideas that you find most comforting, or whether or not this is a dream or some sort of computer simulation...
> 
> ...


Cool ideas and opinions, bro.


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## New Age United (May 2, 2013)

Now we are not enemies, we are seekers of the Truth, let us remain, let us be Philosophers, I respect your opinions to the fullest, please respect mine.


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## New Age United (May 2, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Edit: When i use the term "belief" i am strictly speaking of supernatural beliefs.
> 
> If you can't prove with certainty that, for example "the devil" isn't giving you these experiences and ideas in order to trick you into believing something, or your brain isn't just accepting the ideas that you find most comforting, or whether or not this is a dream or some sort of computer simulation...
> 
> ...


Never assume too much, a very important piece of Wisdom, as I said I can accept uncertainty, I do not need to know the absolute Truth, but I can still have opinions on it. It could be a computer simulation, a dream, it is all calculated to perfection, the "clockwork universe", my opinion, the "Devil", "Satan", "Lucifer", is a personification for the human Ego, but do not be decieved, it is everything you were told it was, it is the master of deception, the bringer of darkness and evil into this world, all things evil in this world come forth from the human Ego. 



Zaehet Strife said:


> Now i can understand having a belief, and believing in it because that is what you feel is right and because it's what makes you feel good. The thing i don't get is... the whole pretending that it is certainly true, when you know deep down that it could be wrong.


I do not believe it because it is comforting, not at all, it is Intuitive, I wrote a book a few years ago, and it started with the question, what is Truth?, it ended 300 pages later with an answer, but the answer is only the conclusion, the Intuitive, the Truth is in the 300 pages, but that is not necessary for all, but it has nothing to do with what I want to believe, but what Intuition tells me, it has an entire chapter "Of Space and Time" devoted to Physics, it is about the Truth and nothing but the Truth, that was my only concern. Anything can be wrong, there are so many possibilities that you can not possibly be certain of what is true, but deep down we Know what is Truth, just as we know that the book will fall, so too do we know what is True and what is False, the thing is we like to defeat our Intuition with what we want to be true. 



Zaehet Strife said:


> _This is where the fear comes in, the fear of beliefs being wrong... makes you pretend that they are certainly right._


You nailed it right on the head, Spiritual Intuition.



Zaehet Strife said:


> When the more courageous and less egotistical standpoint would be;
> 
> "Honestly, i don't know if my beliefs are true or not, but i am going to believe in them regardless. If you don't... whatever, i still do because it's what i want to do." <--- now THAT... is honesty, and is something i truly admire in a person... although it is extremely rare to find.


It is admirable, and I have seen this in many people, and that is the freedom of choice, but I must add that I do not want to hold my opinions as Truth, they are most certainly uncertain.




Zaehet Strife said:


> Note:
> Maybe it's only those of us burdened with the ability to remember our dreams so vividly that sometimes we cannot discern the difference between dream and reality...where one begins and the other ends, who can truly entertain the idea of reality being different from what we want it to be, or what we think it is. But i don't know, there could be others... i've just never had the privilege of meeting them.


Time is an illusion but the Earth is very Real, that is the only ultimate Reality to me, but I must say, it is Paradise.


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## New Age United (May 2, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> None of us has all the information. We are constantly getting new information. New scientific info, new experiences, new perspectives, and new context. This alone should cause a person to, at least periodically, evaluate their beliefs. Those who hold onto old beliefs without ever updating stand a greater chance of being wrong as time passes. Without evolving our certainties, beliefs become prejudices or superstitions. This may seem like common sense but it happens every day.
> 
> 
> For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise. Ben Franklin


Genius, without evolving our cetainties, beliefs become prejudices or superstitions, true genius, what seems like common sense is exactly what we have often forgotten, it is common sense that we must remember.


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## New Age United (May 2, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Do you know how easy it is to deceive the eyes? Incredibly.
> 
> What your eyes see is an interpretation of photons hitting receptors, it's pretty easy to disrupt those signals in various ways via drugs, or electromagnetic stimulation. Dr. Michael Persinger has the ability to make you see, and feel, all sorts of visuals and emotions over a wide range spanning from the deepest joy and sense of belonging with the universe, to dread and ultimate fear. He can make you feel or even see, 'god' or 'the devil'.
> 
> Your senses can be manipulated quite easily by interference; in fact there's no way to intuit or tell if we're in a simulation right now. What you're seeing and touching, interacting with could all be fake and you'd have no way of knowing,


Here is a very deep Truth from Gautama the Buddha, "One has not attained Enlightenment until they realize that everything is an illusion", but if the illusion is Paradise, that is plenty good enough for me, these words are only pointers to a much deeper Truth, "The finger pointing at the moon is not the moon" Buddhism, when asked what is Enlightenment, all Siddhartha could reply is, "the end of suffering". It is a simulatation, but it is the only Reality, a very deep Paradox, calculated to perfection, the entire universe is just Space bending in on itself and creating the illusion of Time(form, Energy, motion).


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## New Age United (May 2, 2013)

The Jahovas Witness' always start their speel with "God has a name, and his name is Jahova, and it is very important that we know his name", I always feel like saying, oh really, why is that important, if you were to call a rose by any other name would it not still be a rose, but they come to you with a smile on their face, they let you know that they are very passionate about their beliefs, they are only trying to do good in this world, and I can not think of anything more Enlightened than that.


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## tyler.durden (May 3, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Here is a very deep Truth from Gautama the Buddha, "One has not attained Enlightenment until they realize that everything is an illusion", but if the illusion is Paradise, that is plenty good enough for me, these words are only pointers to a much deeper Truth,* "The finger pointing at the moon is not the moon"* Buddhism, when asked what is Enlightenment, all Siddhartha could reply is, "the end of suffering". It is a simulatation, but it is the only Reality, a very deep Paradox, calculated to perfection, the entire universe is just Space bending in on itself and creating the illusion of Time(form, Energy, motion).


[video=youtube;CwPWDMvT21E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwPWDMvT21E[/video]

Don't concentrate on the finga, or you wiw miss all dat heavanry grory...


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## Beefbisquit (May 3, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Here is a very deep Truth from Gautama the Buddha, "One has not attained Enlightenment until they realize that everything is an illusion",* but if the illusion is Paradise, that is plenty good enough for me,* these words are only pointers to a much deeper Truth, "The finger pointing at the moon is not the moon" Buddhism, when asked what is Enlightenment, all Siddhartha could reply is, "the end of suffering". It is a simulatation, but it is the only Reality, a very deep Paradox, calculated to perfection, the entire universe is just Space bending in on itself and creating the illusion of Time(form, Energy, motion).



You sound like an alcoholic trying to rationalize his drinking to an AA group. 

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." 
- Carl Sagan

[video=youtube_share;Z7BuQFUhsRM]http://youtu.be/Z7BuQFUhsRM[/video]
"Whatever you want, Mr. Reagan..."


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## Zaehet Strife (May 3, 2013)

> I do not believe it because it is comforting, not at all, it is Intuitive,


Is it not ironic... that whomever i talk to who confirms that their intuition about their supernatural beliefs is correct, it is EXACTLY what they want and EXACTLY what makes them feel good and gives them comfort? Never in my life have i ever heard anyone exclaim that their intuitive supernatural beliefs are something that they don't want, or makes them fearful or uncomfortable.



> there are so many possibilities that you can not possibly be certain of what is true, but deep down we Know what is Truth,


In the same sentence you assert that we cannot be certain of what is true, yet claim deep down we know what is truth. That seems to me that you are saying "deep down, the truth is... that we don't know the truth" which seems very reasonable and honest to me. 



> just as we know that the book will fall, so too do we know what is True and what is False,


There is quite a difference between knowing how the laws of nature will react to matter within this reality, and pretending to know whether or not our supernatural ideas are true.



> the thing is we like to defeat our Intuition with what we want to be true.


Like i said before, isn't it ironic that our intuition about supernatural beliefs is always what we want to be true, never what we fear?




> It is admirable, and I have seen this in many people, and that is the freedom of choice, but I must add that I do not want to hold my opinions as Truth, they are most certainly uncertain.


It takes courage to admit to ourselves and others that we aren't certain if our supernatural beliefs are true. I admire that a lot.


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## tyler.durden (May 3, 2013)

^^ That's a great point, Zaehet. It seems to always be the case that those that hold supernatural beliefs choose the ones that they like or the ones that comfort them. Similarly, people are convinced that the religion they believe is true just happens to be the one in which they were raised. Funny how that works. Now, if just once someone held supernatural beliefs that they didn't like or made them uncomfortable, or a born christian was convinced that muhammed was right and islam is the true faith, I'd sit up and take more notice of what they had to say...


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## New Age United (May 3, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> You sound like an alcoholic trying to rationalize his drinking to an AA group.
> 
> "It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
> - Carl Sagan
> ...


It makes a good point though, why would you not enjoy the meal, when you eat a meal do you actually think to yourself, this is an illusion, I am not actually enjoying the meal it is just an illusion, I can not enjoy this meal bc I know it is just an illusion, you sound like a nihilist, and I respect that if you are there's nothing wrong with that at all, but I will not live my life like that, I always wonder, what is the point in living if there is no point, if there was no point in living I would not live. Lol!!!!! Now that you say that it actually does sound like an acaholic trying to make excuses that's hilarious.


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## New Age United (May 3, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Is it not ironic... that whomever i talk to who confirms that their intuition about their supernatural beliefs is correct, it is EXACTLY what they want and EXACTLY what makes them feel good and gives them comfort? Never in my life have i ever heard anyone exclaim that their intuitive supernatural beliefs are something that they don't want, or makes them fearful or uncomfortable.


Whoever you talk to who confirms their intuition on supernatural beliefs does not realize what intuition is, the direct perception of Truth, a Supreme Being is not Intuitive. 



Zaehet Strife said:


> In the same sentence you assert that we cannot be certain of what is true, yet claim deep down we know what is truth. That seems to me that you are saying "deep down, the truth is... that we don't know the truth" which seems very reasonable and honest to me.


I can not possibly prove that you are Aware, it is a possibility that I am the only Aware being in the universe, but I "know" that you are, I just know, I would not even be able to function without that "Knowing". Intuition happens so fast and naturally that you are not even Aware of it. 



Zaehet Strife said:


> There is quite a difference between knowing how the laws of nature will react to matter within this reality, and pretending to know whether or not our supernatural ideas are true.


There is nothing supernatural about Enlightenment, it is quite natural, there is something very unnatural about viewing the universe as a lifeless machine, and it is quite the illusion that logic has played on you, you are imagining the workings of the universe but you are not actually Aware of the universe as it truly exists, you can not possibly think about the universe as it truly exists, you can only be Aware of it right Now. 



Zaehet Strife said:


> Like i said before, isn't it ironic that our intuition about supernatural beliefs is always what we want to be true, never what we fear?


You miss understood, there is no Intuition about the supernatural, supernatural comes from wishful thinking, people defeat their Intuition(What they know is Truth) with what they want to believe, just as you know damn well what I am saying about the Earth being Paradise, you want to dismiss my opinion as being supernatural, even though it is nature itself that I am speaking of. 



Zaehet Strife said:


> It takes courage to admit to ourselves and others that we aren't certain if our supernatural beliefs are true. I admire that a lot.


Keep in mind that I was not refering to myself when I said it is admirable, I was referring to others I have met, I have absolutely no interest in admiration, but yes it is admirable in those people who possess that quality.


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## New Age United (May 3, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> ^^ That's a great point, Zaehet. It seems to always be the case that those that hold supernatural beliefs choose the ones that they like or the ones that comfort them. Similarly, people are convinced that the religion they believe is true just happens to be the one in which they were raised. Funny how that works. Now, if just once someone held supernatural beliefs that they didn't like or made them uncomfortable, or a born christian was convinced that muhammed was right and islam is the true faith, I'd sit up and take more notice of what they had to say...


One thing I can not agree with, the Abrahamic religions do not always hold beliefs that are comforting, how is Armageddon comforting, how is God judging you and casting you into hell comforting. My parents were both Catholic but chose not to raise me religious, they did not want to force it on me, however I did have faith in Jesus and God throughout my childhood, I looked at it as an absolute truth, I read the Quran and saw the Truth in those words, and realized that Allah is not a supreme being at all, and that Paradise was the Earth itself, Shatan is the energy that causes evil, I read the Bible again and it made a lot more sense. 
But seriously people I have no interest in convincing you of things that you do not want to be convinced of, I know many Christians and I do not speak to them about this stuff, I respect their beliefs so long as they do not use them against people.


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## Zaehet Strife (May 4, 2013)

> Whoever you talk to who confirms their intuition on supernatural beliefs does not realize what intuition is, the direct perception of Truth, a Supreme Being is not Intuitive.


Do you realize that intuition is merely a thing that one knows or considers likely from instinctive feeling rather than conscious reasoning. And the difference between your intuition of what your belief of reality is to the intuition of someones belief in the doctrine of christianity...is nothing, there is no difference. The only difference is that you go with what you have been taught, what you have learned within the boundaries of your environment and within the society you were raised in, what feels the best to you and what you like the most... the same goes for everyone else.



> I can not possibly prove that you are Aware, it is a possibility that I am the only Aware being in the universe, but I "know" that you are, I just know, I would not even be able to function without that "Knowing". Intuition happens so fast and naturally that you are not even Aware of it.


This reminds me of something that happened to my little brother and i about a year ago. I'll try to make this short. My little brother and i were upstairs in his bedroom late at night, we had been chilling all day, completely sober as well. I was sitting on the bed and he was sitting on his computer chair, we had been talking for an hour or so when we just stopped talking for some reason, not suddenly... it was just after we had completed a conversation and just hadn't started another one up again. We were both staring in each others eyes when suddenly something happened.

A feeling started to take over my body, and i knew what it was almost as soon as it started but i didn't even think about it, i couldn't really think at all because it was so intense. It felt exactly like what it feels like when you are in a dream, and all of the sudden something happens and you realize you are dreaming within the dream. The ultimate WOW, and ultimate rush and realization. My eyes never left his, and his never left mine. Then as the feeling became more and more intense we both started to cry, though it wasn't a sobbing cry, it was just that our eyes started crying by themselves as tears ran down our cheeks. Everything in the room that i could perceive with my peripheral vision was moving like visuals do when you have a hard trip on mushrooms or acid, objects going in and out of focus, moving up and down, forward and backward ever so slowly...

The feeling became so intense i couldn't take it anymore so i came up with my first thought, the one that was in the back of my mind the whole time but wouldn't surface, i managed to lean forward and i said in a concerned voice "Drake... is this a dream???" He didnt say anything, he was still just staring at me, so i said again "dude Drake is this a fucking dream???" he seemed to snap out of it with a slight shake of his head and stuttered "Z...Zac, i don't know..." As we slowly both came out of it, the feeling left slowly as well leaving both our hands shaking and wiping the tears from our faces. 

We talked about it for hours, making sure we experienced the same feelings in the same ways, as i taught Drake how to lucid dream 2 years prior to the event he could empathize with the feelings of awakening within a dream. We shared our ideas on what we thought this "spiritual" experience may be, and we came up with a conclusion...

But as the days passed, i couldn't get it off of my mind, i couldn't stop thinking about it and how we both gave meaning to the experience. As weeks passed one day i had an epiphany, i realized what i was doing. 

I was attempting to give my own subjective meaning to an experience i had that i didn't understand. That is exactly what i was doing. I realized that giving my own meaning to this experience did not make that the truth about what it was. That my conclusion may be wrong, that it could be something completely different than what i thought it was. What happened is that i had an unexplainable experience, and if i am honest with myself... i don't really know what happened that night and i never will. The only way i can give myself an idea of what happened, is to make it up... but i can't live my life on pretend ideas when i know deep down that i don't know what really happened that night, that would just be too easy. I don't know what happened and that is the truth of the matter, and no matter how hard i try to give meaning to that experience it won't mean anything at all, because i would know that I'd just be pretending i knew what happened.

And i am oh so tired, so tired of pretending...


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## tyler.durden (May 4, 2013)

New Age United said:


> One thing I can not agree with, the Abrahamic religions do not always hold beliefs that are comforting, how is Armageddon comforting, how is God judging you and casting you into hell comforting. My parents were both Catholic but chose not to raise me religious, they did not want to force it on me, however I did have faith in Jesus and God throughout my childhood, I looked at it as an absolute truth, I read the Quran and saw the Truth in those words, and realized that Allah is not a supreme being at all, and that Paradise was the Earth itself, Shatan is the energy that causes evil, I read the Bible again and it made a lot more sense.
> But seriously people I have no interest in convincing you of things that you do not want to be convinced of, I know many Christians and I do not speak to them about this stuff, I respect their beliefs so long as they do not use them against people.


This is a great point, that not all of the Abrahamic religions beliefs are comforting. As a child, my best friend used to get very frightened during thunderstorms, and he would imagine the end of the world was at hand (he was brought up evangelical christian), so he would call loved ones to see if they were still on Earth or were they taken in the rapture. A kid of six worrying about this shit is child abuse. Part of the dogma may cause unease, but over all they take great comfort in the overall belief that they are part of the 'saved' and 'chosen', and doing A will get you B. They delude themselves that they have the answers to life and beyond, and that is very comforting. Believe me, I used to be right there with them...


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## Heisenberg (May 4, 2013)

It is a comforting feeling to have answers replace confusion or ignorance even if those answers suggest uncomfortable realities. Those that believe the apocalypse is coming are still comforted by the idea that God himself warned them. The whole idea behind Christianity is to offer a safe way through. The concept of being saved actually becomes more comforting if the alternative is eternal torment.


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## Beefbisquit (May 4, 2013)

You talk about seeking the truth, yet you'll willfully wallow in an illusion as long as you're happy.

What does your intuition tell you about seeking the truth inside a lie?


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## Zaehet Strife (May 4, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> This reminds me of something that happened to my little brother and i about a year ago. I'll try to make this short. My little brother and i were upstairs in his bedroom late at night, we had been chilling all day, completely sober as well. I was sitting on the bed and he was sitting on his computer chair, we had been talking for an hour or so when we just stopped talking for some reason, not suddenly... it was just after we had completed a conversation and just hadn't started another one up again. We were both staring in each others eyes when suddenly something happened.
> 
> A feeling started to take over my body, and i knew what it was almost as soon as it started but i didn't even think about it, i couldn't really think at all because it was so intense. It felt exactly like what it feels like when you are in a dream, and all of the sudden something happens and you realize you are dreaming within the dream. The ultimate WOW, and ultimate rush and realization. My eyes never left his, and his never left mine. Then as the feeling became more and more intense we both started to cry, though it wasn't a sobbing cry, it was just that our eyes started crying by themselves as tears ran down our cheeks. Everything in the room that i could perceive with my peripheral vision was moving like visuals do when you have a hard trip on mushrooms or acid, objects going in and out of focus, moving up and down, forward and backward ever so slowly...
> 
> ...


I shared this with my little brother last night and asked him if there was anything he would like to add, or that i may have missed. This was his reply. 

"It's fine man, no worries. Definitely an experience worth sharing. Except for me, it felt like the moment shattered the instant we dropped eye contact, although there was a "coming down" period of about a minute or so. That moment certainly made me question the authenticity of waking life as being considered "real life." As I've come to think, the biggest difference between waking life and dreams is that the plot is more consistent, the experience lasts longer, and physics have more domain. Other than that, dreams are just as real to me as waking life, which is a more descriptive term than "real life" in my opinion."


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## eye exaggerate (May 4, 2013)

...just read a few posts here re: intuition. Something done intuitively is something that is natural to a person. For example: someone who excels in something completely naturally is said to do so intuitively.

...munch-munch


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## New Age United (May 4, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Do you realize that intuition is merely a thing that one knows or considers likely from instinctive feeling rather than conscious reasoning. And the difference between your intuition of what your belief of reality is to the intuition of someones belief in the doctrine of christianity...is nothing, there is no difference. The only difference is that you go with what you have been taught, what you have learned within the boundaries of your environment and within the society you were raised in, what feels the best to you and what you like the most... the same goes for everyone else.
> 
> And i am oh so tired, so tired of pretending...


Zaehet Strife, please, let me reason with you. You have absolutely no idea what Intuition really is, I'm sorry but you don't, you just don't. It is not probability, it only appears that way to someone who doesn't trust their Intuition, why do you think Stephen Hawkings bases his entire lifes work off of The Theory of Relativity, because he can clearly see that it is Truth, even though it is just a "theory" to the rest of the world, something that remains unproven, he Knows that it is Truth, because he trusts his Intuition, he can see the Truth, he perceives the Truth directly, Intuition, Genius. He does not waste time in his mind chasing this logic or that logic, he "Knows" what is Truth, just as you do, you just don't trust it. Everything else in this post tells me that you are taken by your thoughts and emotions very seriously. If you Truly want to stop pretending, you are absolutely free to talk to me, let down your gaurd, just surrender, give up, I will help you find the Truth, I'm being completely serious with you, it is no problem at all. I am not trying to embarass you at all, seriously if you want to learn Enlightenment, all you have to do is read these words slowly, and pay very close Attention to what I am saying. Read this thread again and pay Attention to what I am saying about Intuition.


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## New Age United (May 4, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> This is a great point, that not all of the Abrahamic religions beliefs are comforting. As a child, my best friend used to get very frightened during thunderstorms, and he would imagine the end of the world was at hand (he was brought up evangelical christian), so he would call loved ones to see if they were still on Earth or were they taken in the rapture. A kid of six worrying about this shit is child abuse. Part of the dogma may cause unease, but over all they take great comfort in the overall belief that they are part of the 'saved' and 'chosen', and doing A will get you B. They delude themselves that they have the answers to life and beyond, and that is very comforting. Believe me, I used to be right there with them...


I used to be right there aswell, and I understand exactly what you are saying, they feel like having faith is enough to save them from the rapture and that anyone who doesn't have faith is damned, this is what I mean by using their beliefs agains others.


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## New Age United (May 4, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> It is a comforting feeling to have answers replace confusion or ignorance even if those answers suggest uncomfortable realities. Those that believe the apocalypse is coming are still comforted by the idea that God himself warned them. The whole idea behind Christianity is to offer a safe way through. The concept of being saved actually becomes more comforting if the alternative is eternal torment.


Spiritual Intuition, you are reading the Soul, the Heart of people, we are all good at that, we just have to trust it. You nailed it right on the head.


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## New Age United (May 4, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> You talk about seeking the truth, yet you'll willfully wallow in an illusion as long as you're happy.
> 
> What does your intuition tell you about seeking the truth inside a lie?


You think too much, this is a Paradox, and I understand your position, a truth inside a lie, but when the lie falls down all that remains is the Truth. Stop thinking, logic has you trapped inside a dream, a dream within a dream. "To be or not to be, that is the question" "Perchance to dream", that is the answer, but not to dream of things that may never come, but simply to be Alive. 

The lie is logic, the Truth is what remains when you stop thinking. This may be impossible for a Nihilist.


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## New Age United (May 5, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I shared this with my little brother last night and asked him if there was anything he would like to add, or that i may have missed. This was his reply.
> 
> "It's fine man, no worries. Definitely an experience worth sharing. Except for me, it felt like the moment shattered the instant we dropped eye contact, although there was a "coming down" period of about a minute or so. That moment certainly made me question the authenticity of waking life as being considered "real life." As I've come to think, the biggest difference between waking life and dreams is that the plot is more consistent, the experience lasts longer, and physics have more domain. Other than that, dreams are just as real to me as waking life, which is a more descriptive term than "real life" in my opinion."


I am sorry Zaehet, I honestly don't mean to intrude on the experience you had with your brother, that may have been a very deep connection that you had and I can respect that to the fullest, don't let anyone take that away from you, that is between you and him.


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## Beefbisquit (May 5, 2013)

New Age United said:


> You think too much, this is a Paradox, and I understand your position, a truth inside a lie, but when the lie falls down all that remains is the Truth. Stop thinking, logic has you trapped inside a dream, a dream within a dream. "To be or not to be, that is the question" "Perchance to dream", that is the answer, but not to dream of things that may never come, but simply to be Alive.
> 
> The lie is logic, the Truth is what remains when you stop thinking. This may be impossible for a Nihilist.


You would have to prove to me with 100% certainty, that your intuition is accurate 100% of the time. 

You are unable to do this, so your intuition is not 100% accurate, therefore it's not the truth as 'the truth' is true, _all the time._


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## New Age United (May 5, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> You would have to prove to me with 100% certainty, that your intuition is accurate 100% of the time.
> 
> You are unable to do this, so your intuition is not 100% accurate, therefore it's not the truth as 'the truth' is true, _all the time._


You know what, I'm gonna take a good piece of wisdom from Heisenberg "if we do not evolve our certainties they will become prejudices or superstitions", and you make a good point, the Truth is always true, our Intuition is only an attempt to find that Truth, and as history proves time and time again, it can be wrong. I just want to make a point though, you mentioned earlier that what you see is just photons of light hitting your receptors and signaling the brain, now I agree completely, that is completely Intuitive, but you must have perceived this information at some point, you must have determined that this information was correct, but you did not have to go through the entire book of physics in order to confirm that fact, you did not have to reason for hours in order to confirm that fact, you were able to confirm that fact simply by Intuition, you perceived the Truth directly, because it makes absolute sense (Intuition)


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## cochroach (May 5, 2013)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I'm interested, how am I to receive this spiritual enlightenment?


Just ask Jesus to come into your life. It's easy.


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## New Age United (May 5, 2013)

cochroach said:


> Just ask Jesus to come into your life. It's easy.


If it is that easy for you then I respect that to the fullest.


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## New Age United (May 5, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...just read a few posts here re: intuition. Something done intuitively is something that is natural to a person. For example: someone who excels in something completely naturally is said to do so intuitively.
> 
> ...munch-munch


Any athlete knows the importance of maintaining Presence, to be completely Aware of the Present Moment, to let go of anything else and just be right here, right now. But there are many different definitions of Intuition and I must digress from these "instinctive" meanings of Intuition. I once saw a bull charge a dog, the dog buried his face in the ground and covered its eyes, as if to say if I can't see it it's not happening, you could still see every muscle in the dogs body tense up bracing for impact bc it obviously knew that it was still happening, it was bracing for impact, luckily the farmer had some real serious balls and ran over scooped the dog up and got out of there. This is instinct, the direct knowing of reality but not what I am talking about when I say "Intuition". If a car was speeding towards you it would be a natural reaction to move out of the way, that is instinct, and you are confusing this with Intuition.


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## Zaehet Strife (May 5, 2013)

When anyone tries to tell me they have the truth, or they are certain of their beliefs... it merely defines their desperation that there beliefs be true regardless of the fact that they may not be. Fear is the cause, and pretending to know is the effect. Nothing we can say or do will ever be able to make them think past their own egotistical ideas, they are set and unwavering, unmoving... which i think is very unwise. Because everything must change, that is the law of the universe, everything changes, nothing stays the same... accept for those who are too scared to think about things in a different way, to think of things in a different light or a different perspective. If you have no doubt... you've lost yourself to the lie of certainty, and nothing can save you from that but yourself.

My intentions are not to offend, merely to help understand the self.


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## New Age United (May 5, 2013)

My mother is a dog trainer, she is very keen in the pschology of dogs, she understands them completely. She made a very good point awhile ago, dogs are not very keen like cats are, cats are perhaps the most keen of any animal, cats and dogs represent two different parts of the human psyche, the dog is completely controlled by its environment, whereas the cat is in complete controll of its environment. A human being is half controlled by their environment, and half in control of their environment.


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## New Age United (May 5, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> When anyone tries to tell me they have the truth, or they are certain of their beliefs... it merely defines their desperation that there beliefs be true regardless of the fact that they may not be. Fear is the cause, and pretending to know is the effect. Nothing we can say or do will ever be able to make them think past their own egotistical ideas, they are set and unwavering, unmoving... which i think is very unwise. Because everything must change, that is the law of the universe, everything changes, nothing stays the same... accept for those who are too scared to think about things in a different way, to think of things in a different light or a different perspective. If you have no doubt... you've lost yourself to the lie of certainty, and nothing can save you from that but yourself.
> 
> My intentions are not to offend, merely to help understand the self.


I understand your postition completely Zaehet, and your opinions are always welcome here bc I can see that you are a very intelligent person, Fear is the cause, and pretending to know is the effect, that is an insight of Genius, please do not look at my ideas as egotistical, I know that is a natural response but I am open to change, as I have already displayed from the wisdom of Heisenberg, Intuition is not always correct, lets take and example, the sun rises in the morning and sets in the night, is this absolutely true, even though this is what Intuition tells us, no. It is only true to an observer on the face of the Earth, it is completely relative. It is very unwise to assume that you are absolutely correct, and I am humbled by that statement, you have just defeated me with your intelligence. 

"If you have no doubt, you've lost yourself to the lie of certainty" Genius


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## Zaehet Strife (May 5, 2013)

I'm not a genius, im a simple 27 year old man, living a simple life. I am living just above being poor, a waiter at applebees, trying my best to be happy just like everyone else. I just love to think, to learn, and to think about why i think about the things i do..... genius? Nah, just a normal man trying to make sense of an existence that doesn't really make any sense at all... just like everyone else in the world. The only difference between me and most other people, is that i don't pretend to have the meaning nor the answers.. i understand that i have to make it up myself if i want them.

I can create my own meaning, but if im honest with myself, i know... that i will never have the answers that i truly desire. But i try not to let that bum me out too much.


If this next sentence hits you like a brick, then you have a greater grasp on existence than most others, in my humble opinion;

"Who am I?........." "I am whoever i pretend to be..."


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## New Age United (May 5, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I'm not a genius, im a simple 27 year old man, living a simple life. I am living just above being poor, a waiter at applebees, trying my best to be happy just like everyone else. I just love to think, to learn, and to think about why i think about the things i do..... genius? Nah, just a normal man trying to make sense of an existence that doesn't really make any sense at all... just like everyone else in the world. The only difference between me and most other people, is that i don't pretend to have the meaning nor the answers.. i understand that i have to make it up myself if i want them.
> 
> I can create my own meaning, but if im honest with myself, i know... that i will never have the answers that i truly desire. But i try not to let that bum me out too much.
> 
> ...


"There is great differecne between who I am and who the world perceives me to be" Enstein
I am a carpenter, I work on my own vehicles to save me money, I am not pretending to be anybody. I worked with an old man at a call center once, he made a very good observation, he said you know we are all actors, we are just acting in the play of life. But I am not pretending, I am simply observing, I am who I am, and I will be my own Self to the very end, no matter what the world tells me, I truly Love the world, I am not pretending I truly do, it took a lot of Light for me to realize that humanity is so Sacred that I would gladly give my life for her. My friend once told me in a drunken statement, we are all hiding, hiding from ourselves, we hide ourselves from the world, I said brother, take an example from the rock, Just Be, who cares, is it really that important, do not be so consumed by your self that you can not enjoy your life, that is true stupidity.


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## Zaehet Strife (May 5, 2013)

I would then ask you this... 

How can we be anybody, unless we pretend to be them in the first place?

We can't be anybody, we can't be an individual, unless we pretend we are. Yes, it's just as real as anything else... yet, who are we??? We must make ourselves. And we make ourselves in every moment, of every day of our lives, and we do it because we pretend to be who we want ourselves to be... there is no other way around it.


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## New Age United (May 5, 2013)

Seriously Zaehet, I respect you completely, I do not mean any offense, you are a human being, that is all that matters to me.


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## New Age United (May 5, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I would then ask you this...
> 
> How can we be anybody, unless we pretend to be them in the first place?
> 
> We can't be anybody, we can't be an individual, unless we pretend we are. Yes, it's just as real as anything else... yet, who we are??? We must make ourselves. And we make ourselves in every moment, of every day of our lives, and we do it because we pretend to be who we want ourselves to be... there is no other way around it.


All I have to say is, who said you cannot be your Self, if the world can not accept you, then fuck the world.


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## New Age United (May 5, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> and we do it because we pretend to be who we want ourselves to be... there is no other way around it.


Are you being who you want to be or are you being who the world wants you to be, just be your Self.


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## Zaehet Strife (May 6, 2013)

Who we are is merely the construct of who we want to be, which is all dependent on how we were raised, the society we grew up in and the environment we grew up in. Who we are is dependent on all of those factors, no one is exempt from that... so in order to be who we choose to be, we have to pretend we are that person. 

There is no inherent "who we are". We must choose who we are, everyone of us on this planet. And in order to do that, we must pretend, to one extent or another, just exactly... who we want to be.......


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## New Age United (May 6, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Who we are is merely the construct of who we want to be, which is all dependent on how we were raised, the society we grew up in and the environment we grew up in. Who we are is dependent on all of those factors, no one is exempt from that... so in order to be who we choose to be, we have to pretend we are that person.
> 
> There is no inherent "who we are". We must choose who we are, everyone of us on this planet. And in order to do that, we must pretend, to one extent or another, just exactly... who we want to be.......


Zaehet that is a brilliant observation and I agree completely that our upbringing determines to a great extent who we are, no one is exempt from that, but I noticed a great counter-intuitive here, do we really have a choice, and if we do not have a choice, are we actually pretending, or are we just being ourselves. Do we actually pretend to be who we want to be, or do we just be who we are?


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## Beefbisquit (May 6, 2013)

New Age United said:


> You know what, I'm gonna take a good piece of wisdom from Heisenberg "if we do not evolve our certainties they will become prejudices or superstitions", and you make a good point, the Truth is always true, our Intuition is only an attempt to find that Truth, and as history proves time and time again, it can be wrong. I just want to make a point though, *you mentioned earlier that what you see is just photons of light hitting your receptors and signaling the brain, now I agree completely, that is completely Intuitive, but you must have perceived this information at some point, you must have determined that this information was correct, but you did not have to go through the entire book of physics in order to confirm that fact,* you did not have to reason for hours in order to confirm that fact, you were able to confirm that fact simply by Intuition, you perceived the Truth directly, because it makes absolute sense (Intuition)



It's not intuition, it's called peer-reviewed science. There's no requirement for use of intuition here, just careful observation and experimentation. 

Our intuition tells us that the earth is flat, and the stars revolve around us; it took careful observation and lots of time to map the paths of celestial bodies to determine we are not flat, and the stars do not revolve around us. No intuition required, much like experimentation with the eyes.


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## Heisenberg (May 6, 2013)

The scientific view of intuition is much like its view of anecdotal evidence. It can be an indication of where to begin study, or in the complete absence of direction, can offer a hint of where a theory could go. It can be useful in the beginning of the scientific method which is why the steps which filter out things like intuition and anecdotal evidence come later in the process. The problem is that intuition is highly prone to error and different perspectives can produce intuitive answers which contradict each other. Intuition can be very hard to resist and often times in science finding accurate answers means embracing counter-intuitive thinking. Intuition is not instinct or insight, and has about as much value to science as a paperweight or bookmark.


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## Zaehet Strife (May 6, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Zaehet that is a brilliant observation and I agree completely that our upbringing determines to a great extent who we are, no one is exempt from that, but I noticed a great counter-intuitive here, do we really have a choice, and if we do not have a choice, are we actually pretending, or are we just being ourselves. Do we actually pretend to be who we want to be, or do we just be who we are?


(other than biological diversity and mental retardation) Isn't who we are merely the sum of the free choices we make? We have gathered insight from everyone who we have ever been in contact with our entire lives from birth until the present time. We are a collection of the free choices we decide in retrospect to how other human animals act, what we have either been taught or deem ourselves which is right, and wrong... what we want to keep, or throw away... the ideas and behaviors that we barrow from others, or decide that we don't want a part of. Yet still, a substantial part of what makes us, us.. is how we were raised, the environment we grew up in and the society we were thrown into. The older we grow, the ideas and behaviors we choose to like most tend to stick with us, as the ideas and behaviors we don't like tend to fade away or get pushed aside. This will continue to happen until the day we die, as we continue to make ourselves every moment of every day.

We act, pretend, or make believe we are ourselves to give us a sense of uniqueness, of identity. But in essence all this really is, is an attempt to make ourselves. All of us do it. 

I understand that there are some aspects about ourselves that we cannot change because of the way our brains have grown, and our genetic inheritance, but those can only go so far in an existence where our free choices do have the ability dictate who we are more powerfully than a biological difference... and yet who we are is still all tied into who we act like we are, who we pretend to be, or who we make ourselves believe we are.

All my opinion of course.


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## mindphuk (May 6, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> It's not intuition, it's called peer-reviewed science. There's no requirement for use of intuition here, just careful observation and experimentation.
> 
> Our intuition tells us that the earth is flat, and the stars revolve around us; it took careful observation and lots of time to map the paths of celestial bodies to determine we are not flat, and the stars do not revolve around us. No intuition required, much like experimentation with the eyes.


I said very similar things earlier in this thread. Prepared to be ignored.

I chuckle when I read that he thinks general relativity is intuitive. It is IMO decidedly NOT intuitive, which is why it took someone with the genius of Einstein to break through. Even knowing all I do about relativity, it still is highly non-intuitive. Who would have thought that just by moving through space, we are also changing the speed of our personal clocks? NAU might believe it is intuitive to him NOW, but I would suspect had he not first gone through the process of LEARNING, that it would not be so intuitive. How about the fact that gravitation is really just a pseudo-force, much like centrifugal force, and not a primary force of nature? Black holes, a direct consequence of relativity, is so non-intuitive that many scientists doubted they could actually exist in nature until one was found. And now we find out that the entire universe is filled with them and virtually every galaxy has one at its center. Now if he can still say this is all intuitive, I will just say bullshit and put him on ignore.


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## Heisenberg (May 6, 2013)

[video=youtube_share;5YPiVSdh-RY]http://youtu.be/5YPiVSdh-RY[/video]


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## Beefbisquit (May 6, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> [video=youtube_share;5YPiVSdh-RY]http://youtu.be/5YPiVSdh-RY[/video]


I believe people can have a certain sensation, sometimes, when someone actually is staring at them from behind. I also believe that people can have that same sensation when no one is starting at them from behind. I don't believe there is any causation between someone actually staring at you from behind, and the feeling. It seems like another selection bias, where people remember the hits, and forget the misses. This translates into people saying they 'feel ghosts' behind them when they get the feeling and no one is there. They remember 
when the had the feeling and mistakenly attribute the feeling with someone staring at them, instead of realizing the feeling was a fluke and there's no one behind them. The feeling was essentially false.

I see/read people falsely mistaking correlation and causation all the time. 

Great video, Heis.


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## New Age United (May 6, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> It's not intuition, it's called peer-reviewed science. There's no requirement for use of intuition here, just careful observation and experimentation.
> 
> Our intuition tells us that the earth is flat, and the stars revolve around us; it took careful observation and lots of time to map the paths of celestial bodies to determine we are not flat, and the stars do not revolve around us. No intuition required, much like experimentation with the eyes.


We are lost in translation, direct perception of the Truth, careful observation, using memory and logic to come up with the correct answer to a practical question, yes the rational mind is a necessity in this process. "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant" Einstein


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## New Age United (May 6, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> The scientific view of intuition is much like its view of anecdotal evidence. It can be an indication of where to begin study, or in the complete absence of direction, can offer a hint of where a theory could go. It can be useful in the beginning of the scientific method which is why the steps which filter out things like intuition and anecdotal evidence come later in the process. The problem is that intuition is highly prone to error and different perspectives can produce intuitive answers which contradict each other. Intuition can be very hard to resist and often times in science finding accurate answers means embracing counter-intuitive thinking. Intuition is not instinct or insight, and has about as much value to science as a paperweight or bookmark.


That was a back and forth read, it is absolutely vital to the entire scientific method, and counter-intuitives are an absolutely vital part of finding the Intuitive. Intuition is not insight, it has as much value to science as a paperweight? But I actually do like the bookmark comment, that actually is a good observation.


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## New Age United (May 6, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> I said very similar things earlier in this thread. Prepared to be ignored.
> 
> I chuckle when I read that he thinks general relativity is intuitive. It is IMO decidedly NOT intuitive, which is why it took someone with the genius of Einstein to break through. Even knowing all I do about relativity, it still is highly non-intuitive. Who would have thought that just by moving through space, we are also changing the speed of our personal clocks? NAU might believe it is intuitive to him NOW, but I would suspect had he not first gone through the process of LEARNING, that it would not be so intuitive. How about the fact that gravitation is really just a pseudo-force, much like centrifugal force, and not a primary force of nature? Black holes, a direct consequence of relativity, is so non-intuitive that many scientists doubted they could actually exist in nature until one was found. And now we find out that the entire universe is filled with them and virtually every galaxy has one at its center. Now if he can still say this is all intuitive, I will just say bullshit and put him on ignore.


Again, the counter-intuitive is a necessity, especially in Relativity, yes it took someone with Einstein Intuition to break through and find the Intuitives, what is not intuitive must be made intuitive, yes LEARNING is absolutely vital, you can not make sense of things without learning, I am not saying that the rational mind is not necessary. Now that we have found black holes they make a lot of sense don't they, they fulfill a great purpose in the order of things, as Physics progresses they are becoming more and more Intuitive. Say bullshit and hit that ignore button lol!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously bud you're opinions are welcome here, I think I have learned more on this thread then anyone, and maybe I am wrong, but I have a very good understanding of Relativity, and I know damn well that I would not have such a good understanding without Intuition, it is very very simple it really is, and if you do not think so you are way overthinking it, in my opinion.


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## New Age United (May 6, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> [video=youtube_share;5YPiVSdh-RY]http://youtu.be/5YPiVSdh-RY[/video]


This would be that "instinctive" definition of Intuition.


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## New Age United (May 6, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> (other than biological diversity and mental retardation) Isn't who we are merely the sum of the free choices we make? We have gathered insight from everyone who we have ever been in contact with our entire lives from birth until the present time. We are a collection of the free choices we decide in retrospect to how other human animals act, what we have either been taught or deem ourselves which is right, and wrong... what we want to keep, or throw away... the ideas and behaviors that we barrow from others, or decide that we don't want a part of. Yet still, a substantial part of what makes us, us.. is how we were raised, the environment we grew up in and the society we were thrown into. The older we grow, the ideas and behaviors we choose to like most tend to stick with us, as the ideas and behaviors we don't like tend to fade away or get pushed aside. This will continue to happen until the day we die, as we continue to make ourselves every moment of every day.
> 
> We act, pretend, or make believe we are ourselves to give us a sense of uniqueness, of identity. But in essence all this really is, is an attempt to make ourselves. All of us do it.
> 
> ...


I respect your opinion completely and I can see how that is Intuitive to you, always trust your own Intuition before anyone else that is exactly the point here, you may have an insight that I do not have and therefore you are correct and I am wrong. I do not actually believe in free will, in my opinion even the control we have over our environment is only the effect of a previous cause and therefore is actually an illusion, the illusion of free will, but that is strictly my opinion and I am not suggesting you take on this perspective, this is where the relative to the observer comes in, your opinion is completely Intuitive, but so is mine, perhaps elements from both could be applied. 

In my opinion it is not that we are acting, pretending or making believe we are ourselves, but I do understand what you are saying, and we all do this from time to time, for instance if you do not like your job you must act as if you do in order to keep your job, if you do not like a certain person you may act as if you do in order to avoid confrontation, but we are who we are, and trying to be someone you are not, trying to live up to an idea of who you want to be is not authentically you, you may be able to do this from time to time but trying to do this repeatedly would become very tiring, that is not to say that we can not evolve as conscious human beings and better our selves through self observation and as you say free choice.


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## Heisenberg (May 6, 2013)

New Age United said:


> That was a back and forth read, it is absolutely vital to the entire scientific method,


Intuition has limited value at the very beginning of the scientific method, but as you approach the truth, that value becomes negative. This has been the case in all of scientific discovery. Suggestions that it is vital to the entire method are actually suggestions that you do not understand the method or the philosophy behind it. You should learn to recognize the times when you are redefining the world to fit within your framework. Intuition is simply what we are inclined to do or think without analysis. 



> and counter-intuitives are an absolutely vital part of finding the Intuitive.


You are shifting qualities here. You are using "intuitive" to mean one thing at the beginning of the sentence, and something completely different at the end. It looks like you are trying to say 'thinking outside the box is vital to finding truth', but it comes across as a contradiction, 'non-inclinations are vital to finding the inclination', and the only way to make sense of it is by a contortion of logic, namely equivocation. 



> Intuition is not insight, it has as much value to science as a paperweight? But I actually do like the bookmark comment, that actually is a good observation.


Instinct is very similar to intuition, while insight is completely different. Instinct is about a primal urge, such as sex drive or the desire to pair-bond. It does not depend at all on prior experience. Instinct can drive intuition, but intuition can also extend to things that aren't instinctual, like having a 'green thumb' at farming. Intuition can also be achieved by practice. Some Asian children learn to manipulate an abacus so proficiently as to not need a physical one in front of them, which allows them to intuitively perform some math operations in the same way that your brain understands words or recognizes numbers without conscious effort. Logic can also become intuitive if practiced enough.

Insight is fleeting and can't be practiced. It is not helped by instinct because insight involves seeing a problem in a way that you never have before, in a way that is not inspired by your current methods of thinking. Instinct and intuition are based on prior narrative and genetic information, while insight is when you gain perspective without those things. Insight is not about the solution becoming obvious through subconscious processes, it's about realizing a non-obvious solution through subconscious process. The best way to encourage insight is to have new experiences; expose the brain to thrills and stimuli it has never known before. You don't actually have to learn or practice anything, just inspire the mind to think bigger, to think outside of and beyond things like intuition.


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## Heisenberg (May 6, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Seriously bud you're opinions are welcome here, I think I have learned more on this thread then anyone, and maybe I am wrong, but I have a very good understanding of Relativity, and I know damn well that I would not have such a good understanding without Intuition, it is very very simple it really is, and if you do not think so you are way overthinking it, in my opinion.


So simple even Einstein could figure it out, and he over thought it for decades and left it unfinished because, well, anyone could just come along and unify it later.

So what does your intuition tell you about string theory vs loop quantum gravity? And don't over think it!


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## New Age United (May 6, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> So simple even Einstein could figure it out, and he over thought it for decades and left it unfinished because, well, anyone could just come along and unify it later.
> 
> So what does your intuition tell you about string theory vs loop quantum gravity? And don't over think it!


Heisenberg I respect that you are very well educated person, I had to educate my self, and I am grateful for that bc I have a very simple view of things, and I will always keep it that way. I respect that you have a much different understanding of Intuition and that you may see many flaws in my understanding. I do not even want to bother with string theory or loop quantum gravity, "do not fill your head with things that you can look up", and I will not give an opinion on something I am completely ignorant of. My field is Enlightenment, I only know as much about Physics as is practical to me. Of course Einstein couldn't figure it out and over thought it for decades, this was completely original, he had to make sense of that which did not make sense, and there is only so much time in the day, if Hawkings had the time he could complete the book of Physics, but he does not have that time no one does. 

This is my understanding of Intuition, and this may seem completely far-fetched from yours. It is your Intuition that recognizes the counter-intuitive, it is your Intuition that Knows to go beyond the Paradox and seek the Truth, and it always Knows when it has arrived at the Truth. It is a natural process that takes place all of the time, it is literally how your mind works. You, the "observer", the "insightful one", the "witness", the "Knower", you are the Intuitive Mind, the process of your thinking is the rational mind, "the thinker", the faithful servant. Yes of course insight is fleeting, all things are fleeting except for Awareness, you are Still, Unwavering, you are the medium that allows the Thinker to exist. 

I do respect that you may want to ignore this completely, that is fine I have no interest in convincing you of things, but I will keep this understanding bc it serves me quite well.

"out of clutter find simplicity"
"Truth is always to be found in simplicity and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things"

If your understanding of Intuition is practical to you then just keep it that way, there is no need for you to addopt this perspective, you are very intelligent and you function just fine without it.


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## eye exaggerate (May 6, 2013)

...gents, I think we're trying to apply intuition to math - or math to intuition? The intuition happens before the math and after math has been used intuition is used yet again to advance math until intuition is used once more to...


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## eye exaggerate (May 6, 2013)

...the proof is in the grey pudding


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## New Age United (May 6, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...gents, I think we're trying to apply intuition to math - or math to intuition? The intuition happens before the math and after math has been used intuition is used yet again to advance math until intuition is used once more to...


The bookmark, exactly, but it takes place sub-consciously everyday, once the process has been learned it becomes natural. 

I will let go of Intuition now, if I mention it again it is simply out of habit. I will get into the Ego next, the Thinker. If anybody is interested, and I really do appreciate your opinions people like I said I have learned a bunch from this, I am always learning.


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## Heisenberg (May 6, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Heisenberg I respect that you are very well educated person,* I had to educate my self, and I am grateful for that bc I have a very simple view of things,* and I will always keep it that way. I respect that you have a much different understanding of Intuition and that you may see many flaws in my understanding. I do not even want to bother with string theory or loop quantum gravity, "do not fill your head with things that you can look up", and I will not give an opinion on something I am completely ignorant of. My field is Enlightenment, *I only know as much about Physics as is practical to me.* Of course Einstein couldn't figure it out and over thought it for decades, this was completely original, he had to make sense of that which did not make sense, and there is only so much time in the day, if Hawkings had the time he could complete the book of Physics, but he does not have that time no one does.


I am not traditionally educated. I have a high school GED. I am an autodidact. To the bolded: You seem to be confusing genuine ignorance with willful ignorance. Not having a formal education is no excuse for only exposing yourself to that knowledge which is advantageous to your preconceived ideas. A few posts ago you claimed you understood relativity just fine and considered it simple, now you say here that you have only learned what you wanted, and it's natural to spend a lifetime studying it without understanding it. Something is wrong if you can contradict yourself so easily in the span of two posts. You need to work on either your thinking skills, or your communication skills, because you appear to be saying random things without consistency, aka talking out of your ass.




> This is my understanding of Intuition, and this may seem completely far-fetched from yours. It is your Intuition that recognizes the counter-intuitive, it is your Intuition that Knows to go beyond the Paradox and seek the Truth, and it always Knows when it has arrived at the Truth.


But as pointed out, intuition doesn't know when it has arrived at truth. Intuition tells us the earth is flat and it stops there. Watching the sun rise and set everyday, the intuitive mind tells us that it revolves around us. Intuition is happy to never look beyond this "truth" until the addition of careful observation. Your definition of intuition fails to account for an obvious property of intuition, that it is often wrong. When previously confronted with this fact you performed cognitive acrobatics to get around it, similar to this below.



> *It is a natural process that takes place all of the time*, it is literally how your mind works. You, the "observer", the "insightful one", the "witness", the "Knower", you are the Intuitive Mind, the process of your thinking is the rational mind, "the thinker", the faithful servant. *Yes of course insight is fleeting*, *all things are fleeting* except for Awareness, you are Still, Unwavering, you are the medium that allows the Thinker to exist.


Earlier you implied that intuition and insight were the same thing. Here you admit that intuition happens all the time, while insight is fleeting. You state this in a way that seems completely unaware that you just said something different a few minutes ago, which seems to be a theme with you.



> I do respect that you may want to ignore this completely, that is fine I have no interest in convincing you of things, but I will keep this understanding bc it serves me quite well.


I see you use this disclaimer often. The idea that if your arguments, which you took the time to share, aren't good enough then that's fine. If you are satisfied with faulty arguments and misconception then why should anyone else listen to you? How do you expect to teach other people stuff when everything you know is tailored to you? When you decide to keep understandings because they serve you quite well, you also decide to give up any value those understandings can have to other people.



> If your understanding of Intuition is practical to you then just keep it that way, *there is no need for you to addopt this perspective*, *you are very intelligent and you function just fine without it.*


So the wisdom you want to share with others is only valuable to those who are not intelligent? You seem to be suggesting that fantasy is fine for those dumb enough to find comfort in it.


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## Beefbisquit (May 7, 2013)

*in·tu·i·tion*

/&#716;int(y)o&#862;o&#712;iSH&#601;n/


Noun



The ability to understand something immediately, without the need for conscious reasoning.
A thing that one knows or considers likely from instinctive feeling rather than conscious reasoning.





How does your definition of intuition fit these already established definitions _*AND *_explain everything you've said? That's what you need to do, not just tell us a new definition of intuition (that we have no evidence for).

You need to show how you can explain _everything,_ and I mean _everything, _about how intuition fits into psychology, neuroscience, etc. *AS WELL AS* how it explains everything you've described to us as well. That's what a new theory has to do, it needs to account for everything the old theory accounted for, as well as filling in all the gaps that it claims it's addressed.


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## eye exaggerate (May 7, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> *in·tu·i·tion*
> 
> /&#716;int(y)o&#862;o&#712;iSH&#601;n/
> 
> ...


...I know this post is for nau, but I feel the need to respond. In neuroscience intuition is unconscious decision making. As an evolutionary lot, we can recall long lost memory through intuition and NOT get eaten by something and live to propagate another day  Who takes the time to calculate the need for either fight or flight? (f.e.)

...insofar as how psych fits in, even the mention of the word unconscious is enough to see where is has its place.

...so, in the evolutionary sense, who would have advanced without intuition being the basis for nearly every decision - albeit unconscious?


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## Beefbisquit (May 7, 2013)

My psychology Professor gave me this anecdote....

The person at the watering hole that runs as soon as the long grass moves, goes thirsty.
The person at the watering hole that ignores the long grass move, is lion food.
The person at the watering hole who sees the grass move but carefully decides whether or not it's the wind or a lion, usually drinks and lives.


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## eye exaggerate (May 7, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> My psychology Professor gave me this anecdote....
> 
> The person at the watering hole that runs as soon as the long grass moves, goes thirsty.
> The person at the watering hole that ignores the long grass move, is lion food.
> The person at the watering hole who sees the grass move but carefully decides whether or not it's the wind or a lion, usually drinks and lives.


...heheh, nice.

...question: how did he (watering hole person) gain that knowledge? To carefully decide one must have the building blocks to base a decision on.

*sips some water after smoking some of the grass*


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## Beefbisquit (May 7, 2013)

Could be from watching others, it could be that he went thirsty a few days in a row and decided to risk it a bit more the next time. Maybe he did wait too long, but his 'friend' who also waited too long got eaten instead. 

Doesn't really matter; the only way to gain _knowledge _is from experience, be it your own, or someone else's.


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## eye exaggerate (May 7, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Could be from watching others, it could be that he went thirsty a few days in a row and decided to risk it a bit more the next time. Maybe he did wait too long, but his 'friend' who also waited too long got eaten instead.
> 
> Doesn't really matter; the only way to gain _knowledge _is from experience, be it your own, or someone else's.


...that's it right there for me. I just happen to think that some of that knowledge comes from within - from experiences long stored (stowed?) away in the collective memory of the _pep_pol


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## Beefbisquit (May 7, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...that's it right there for me. I just happen to think that some of that knowledge comes from within - from experiences long stored (stowed?) away in the collective memory of the _pep_pol


Should have stated 'demonstrable' experiences. 

E.g. Saying you've been to the astral plane, but not being able to prove it with any information that couldn't have been gathered elsewhere, doesn't count!


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## eye exaggerate (May 7, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Should have stated 'demonstrable' experiences.
> 
> E.g. Saying you've been to the astral plane, but not being able to prove it with any information that couldn't have been gathered elsewhere, doesn't count!


...lol - our own existence is a demonstrable experience...plus, you have led's don't you? You know damn well where that idea came from


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## Beefbisquit (May 7, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...lol - our own existence is a demonstrable experience...plus, you have led's don't you? You know damn well where that idea came from


Yes, it is. It is physically demonstrable to other people. I can take a picture of you, or video and prove that you exist. I could shake your hand, and other people can do the exact same thing, under the exact same conditions; that's to say that shaking your hand is a demonstrable, repeatable, experiment. 

Idea for LED's? No, why?


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## mindphuk (May 7, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Again, the counter-intuitive is a necessity, especially in Relativity, yes it took someone with Einstein Intuition to break through and find the Intuitives, what is not intuitive must be made intuitive, yes LEARNING is absolutely vital, you can not make sense of things without learning, I am not saying that the rational mind is not necessary. Now that we have found black holes they make a lot of sense don't they, they fulfill a great purpose in the order of things, as Physics progresses they are becoming more and more Intuitive. Say bullshit and hit that ignore button lol!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Seriously bud you're opinions are welcome here, I think I have learned more on this thread then anyone, and maybe I am wrong, but I have a very good understanding of Relativity, and I know damn well that I would not have such a good understanding without Intuition, it is very very simple it really is, and if you do not think so you are way overthinking it, in my opinion.


You're just changing the meaning of intuition from one second to the next. There is no discussing this with you because you have come to a conclusion about what intution actually is, even if it disagrees with the most common used definitions. There may be something you are trying to represent and explain but it is not intuition in the normal sense. Words have meaning, and you are choosing to avoid and/or change those meanings. I am not putting you on ignore, but I am also not spending any more energy trying to explain how what you are saying is still bullshit.


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## GregS (May 7, 2013)

Sure. I'll take it if it comes with beer.


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## tyler.durden (May 7, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Could be from watching others, it could be that he went thirsty a few days in a row and decided to risk it a bit more the next time. Maybe he did wait too long, but his 'friend' who also waited too long got eaten instead.
> 
> Doesn't really matter; the only way to gain _knowledge _is from experience, be it your own, or someone else's.


Reminds me of my kid's favorite joke - Two friends are camping in Yellowstone, when suddenly they see a huge grizzly bear running right for them. One guy takes off immediately without putting on his shoes, while the other calmly bends down to put his on. The running friend yells, 'what are you doing? We need to outrun that bear!' The second friend yells back, 'I don't need to outrun the bear, I just need to outrun _you_!'


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## Heisenberg (May 7, 2013)

Fractal wrongness is the state of being wrong at every conceivable scale of resolution. That is, from a distance, a fractally wrong person's worldview is incorrect; and furthermore, if you zoom in on any small part of that person's worldview, that part is just as wrong as the whole worldview. Debating with a person who is fractally wrong leads to infinite regress, as every refutation you make of that person's opinions will lead to a rejoinder, full of half-truths, leaps of poor logic, and outright lies, that requires just as much refutation to debunk as the first one. It is as impossible to convince a fractally wrong person of anything as it is to walk around the edge of the Mandelbrot set in finite time.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fractal_wrongness


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## GregS (May 7, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> Fractal wrongness is the state of being wrong at every conceivable scale of resolution. That is, from a distance, a fractally wrong person's worldview is incorrect; and furthermore, if you zoom in on any small part of that person's worldview, that part is just as wrong as the whole worldview. Debating with a person who is fractally wrong leads to infinite regress, as every refutation you make of that person's opinions will lead to a rejoinder, full of half-truths, leaps of poor logic, and outright lies, that requires just as much refutation to debunk as the first one. It is as impossible to convince a fractally wrong person of anything as it is to walk around the edge of the Mandelbrot set in finite time.
> 
> http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fractal_wrongness


Is consciousness fractal in nature? Chaotic sure, and there are certainly strange attractors. Great stuff. But don't you think that the infinitude of the distance from point to point along the edge of the set is the same as the infinitude of points along a straight line? Despite that, we are able to arrive at point b from point a, unless you can't get there from here. Can it be described or expressed in or with nonlinear differential equations?


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## tyler.durden (May 7, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> Fractal wrongness is the state of being wrong at every conceivable scale of resolution. That is, from a distance, a fractally wrong person's worldview is incorrect; and furthermore, if you zoom in on any small part of that person's worldview, that part is just as wrong as the whole worldview. Debating with a person who is fractally wrong leads to infinite regress, as every refutation you make of that person's opinions will lead to a rejoinder, full of half-truths, leaps of poor logic, and outright lies, that requires just as much refutation to debunk as the first one. It is as impossible to convince a fractally wrong person of anything as it is to walk around the edge of the Mandelbrot set in finite time.
> 
> http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fractal_wrongness


I can't wait to start using this one: "Dude, you aren't just wrong. You're _fractally_ wrong!"



GregS said:


> Is consciousness fractal in nature? Chaotic sure, and there are certainly strange attractors. Great stuff. But don't you think that the infinitude of the distance from point to point along the edge of the set is the same as the infinitude of points along a straight line? Despite that, we are able to arrive at point b from point a, unless you can't get there from here. Can it be described or expressed in or with nonlinear differential equations?


??? I think one of us didn't understand what Heis was getting at...


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## eye exaggerate (May 7, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Yes, it is. It is physically demonstrable to other people. I can take a picture of you, or video and prove that you exist. I could shake your hand, and other people can do the exact same thing, under the exact same conditions; that's to say that shaking your hand is a demonstrable, repeatable, experiment.
> 
> Idea for LED's? No, why?


...I've read that the idea came from 'aliens'. Sorry man, just joking around.

...sooo, are you saying that you've never shaken hands with anything ethereal??


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## GregS (May 8, 2013)

What? Who?


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## PetFlora (May 8, 2013)

Got your spiritual upload right here 

This part 3 so go to part 1 first

Caution you brain will be tasked/taxed

My first wife's grandfather worked /lived at Swananoa, WRs home 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=dnFdoVLTos4


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## Heisenberg (May 8, 2013)

https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-intuition-13238

"These definitions are very useful because they remind us that intuition need not refer to some magical process by which answers pop into our minds from thin air or from deep within the unconscious."

"On the contrary: intuitive decisions are often a product of previous intense and/or extensive explicit thinking. Such decisions may appear subjectively fast and effortless because they are made on the basis of recognition."


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## eye exaggerate (May 8, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-intuition-13238
> 
> "These definitions are very useful because they remind us that intuition need not refer to some magical process by which answers pop into our minds from thin air or from deep within the unconscious."
> 
> "On the contrary: intuitive decisions are often a product of previous intense and/or extensive explicit thinking. Such decisions may appear subjectively fast and effortless because they are made on the basis of recognition."


..._pattern_ recognition, Heisy?


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## Zaehet Strife (May 8, 2013)

I wonder, if those who are so certain of their beliefs, would allow an idea to entertain their minds at least for a second or two if some sort of alien came down and claimed another idea of truth... or would you bludgeon that off as nothing and wrong just as you do with every other idea that conflicts with your own mind... as we have offered you countless times?


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## GregS (May 9, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-intuition-13238
> 
> "These definitions are very useful because they remind us that intuition need not refer to some magical process by which answers pop into our minds from thin air or from deep within the unconscious."
> 
> "On the contrary: intuitive decisions are often a product of previous intense and/or extensive explicit thinking. Such decisions may appear subjectively fast and effortless because they are made on the basis of recognition."


...or precognition that is the expectation that springs from prior recognition?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 9, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I wonder, if those who are so certain of their beliefs, would allow an idea to entertain their minds at least for a second or two if some sort of alien came down and claimed another idea of truth... or would you bludgeon that off as nothing and wrong just as you do with every other idea that conflicts with your own mind... as we have offered you countless times?


Like the belief that its impossible to know if god exists?


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## mindphuk (May 9, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Like the belief that its impossible to know if god exists?


Short of a deity actually revealing himself (herself?) to us, do you think it's possible to know if gods exist?


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## eye exaggerate (May 9, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I wonder, if those who are so certain of their beliefs, would allow an idea to entertain their minds at least for a second or two if some sort of alien came down and claimed another idea of truth... or would you bludgeon that off as nothing and wrong just as you do with every other idea that conflicts with your own mind... as we have offered you countless times?


...maybe part of the problem is that some folks would benefit from seeing that an explanation doesn't provide an answer. The answer is purely subjective and might only provide a sense of direction. It takes a sht load of work to get to the middle of it all...no one can do it for you.


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## Zaehet Strife (May 9, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Like the belief that its impossible to know if god exists?


Nah, say aliens came down far more advanced than us, and told you that gods certainty do exist, and that they have found exactly 13 different gods that have an effect on our existence... 

Would you believe it, or just shrug it off and keep pretending your ideas are the right ones?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 10, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Nah, say aliens came down far more advanced than us, and told you that gods certainty do exist, and that they have found exactly 13 different gods that have an effect on our existence...
> 
> Would you believe it, or just shrug it off and keep pretending your ideas are the right ones?


Besides creating the universe we exist in, I think gods have little to no effect on our existence anyways , unless you see some traditional shaman and drink some ayahuasca, or something of that other worldly nature. I'd be skeptical of the aliens because according to the crazy abductees, a lot of them are not nice lol. 

Just trying to make you realize that the belief of it being impossible to know if gods exist is just that, a belief, idea, opinion, nothing more, and Im gunna bug ya about it every time you try to express that belief as absolute truth


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## ParkourMarkus (May 11, 2013)

Why would "God" even have anything to do with an idea like "effect"? The idea of an effect is a human one to explain a finite phenomenon, which has nothing to do with any so called "god" I would imagine.


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## Beefbisquit (May 11, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Besides creating the universe we exist in, I think gods have little to no effect on our existence anyways , unless you see some traditional shaman and drink some ayahuasca, or something of that other worldly nature. I'd be skeptical of the aliens because according to the crazy abductees, a lot of them are not nice lol.
> 
> Just trying to make you realize that the belief of it being impossible to know if gods exist is just that, a belief, idea, opinion, nothing more, and Im gunna bug ya about it every time you try to express that belief as absolute truth


Unless god were to show itself or provide demonstrable proof, it would be virtually impossible to know of its existence. Can you search everywhere in existence simultaneously? I sure can't, and unless _you can,_ it's impossible to know if god exists.

Gods and non-existent things share so many properties, that without being some form of 'Laplacian demon', (arguably a god himself) you don't possess the abilities to show that invisible/immaterial things, or things in other dimensions, exist.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 11, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Unless god were to show itself or provide demonstrable proof, it would be virtually impossible to know of its existence. Can you search everywhere in existence simultaneously? I sure can't, and unless _you can,_ it's impossible to know if god exists.
> 
> Gods and non-existent things share so many properties, that without being some form of 'Laplacian demon', (arguably a god himself) you don't possess the abilities to show that invisible/immaterial things, or things in other dimensions, exist.


Cool opinion man. 

Of course I dont have the abilities to show that Gods exist, thats silly, its not my motivation to do that. Though it seems when skeptics get questioned about their core beliefs, the answers you guys provide just have to be the truth and you vigorously try to force it onto theists that you guys so obviously look down upon. "Its impossible to know if god exists... Astral projection is just a diluted form of lucid dreaming... You didnt see a ghost!". If you put "*I think*" in front of each of those statements then it would be cool. You accuse us of being egotistic and arrogant about our beliefs yet its you guys who strut around like you found the holy grail, the secrets to the universe, the truth that every man, woman, and child should know. Its silly. 

I got a feeling a band is getting together to once again play "The song that never ends". I dunno if I feel like clapping my hands to the tune this time, its all sooo repetitive .


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## Aceking131 (May 11, 2013)

What if when you realize the meaning of life, you die


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 11, 2013)

Aceking131 said:


> What if when you realize the meaning of life, you die


You mean after you die? 

I dont think the meaning of life is a divine secret. Just learn to love life and the people in it. Always try to seek to improve yourself. 

Joe has a nice way of putting things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAeQg_RomNo


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## tyler.durden (May 11, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Cool opinion man.
> 
> Of course I dont have the abilities to show that Gods exist, thats silly, its not my motivation to do that.


Well, you used to try to prove supernatural claims to others here, but I think you've learned there's no way to do that...



> Though it seems when skeptics get questioned about their core beliefs, the answers you guys provide just have to be the truth and you vigorously try to force it onto theists that you guys so obviously look down upon.


It seems to me that the skeptics are rarely asked about, or offer, their core beliefs. Instead they are often busy dissecting outrageous claims made by others to see if they hold any merit. Most often, these claims fall apart after only cursory questioning, and the skeptics are then accused of being assholes, close-minded, ignorant, or arrogant. The lines of thought from these skeptics are usually based on logic, reason and critical thinking, and the information put forth is based on the most current scientific understanding (as opposed to 'truth'). I rarely see them look down upon theists: they may look down on their unsupportable beliefs or childish behavior, but that's not about the person themselves...



> "Its impossible to know if god exists... Astral projection is just a diluted form of lucid dreaming... You didnt see a ghost!". If you put "*I think*" in front of each of those statements then it would be cool.


"It's impossible to know if god exists" is out of context, it was in conjunction with, "Unless god were to show itself or provide demonstrable proof." Astral projection and ghosts have been seriously investigated, and each time there was no evidence that there was any merit to either phenomena. That's not to say it's impossible for these things to exist, it's just their existence has never been demonstrated. It's not that some 'think' they haven't been demonstrated to exist, they actually haven't...



> You accuse us of being egotistic and arrogant about our beliefs yet its you guys who strut around like you found the holy grail, the secrets to the universe, the truth that every man, woman, and child should know. Its silly.


It seems that they are saying the opposite: that humanity _hasn't _found the holy grail or the secrets to the universe, and that includes the folks claiming they have (found gods, secret knowledge, special powers, reading minds, or anything supernatural). Most people with access to modern knowledge _should_ know that we haven't yet found these things, as opposed to deluding themselves that we have. We can only make rapid progress when we admit the current limits of knowledge: how can we get where we want to go if we don't know where we are?



> I got a feeling a band is getting together to once again play "The song that never ends". I dunno if I feel like clapping my hands to the tune this time, its all sooo repetitive .


The tune is a duet, they couldn't sing it without your participation...


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## Beefbisquit (May 12, 2013)

*

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tyler.durden again.





*



Saved me a response, my man.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 12, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Well, you used to try to prove supernatural claims to others here, but I think you've learned there's no way to do that...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know its a duet, Im the clapper, and phew! I was afraid I was gunna start clapping again to the repetitive tune of "science doesnt know, so neither do you". 

This discussion started because I wanted Z to accept his idea for what it is, an idea. Can you entertain the idea that its possible to know if Gods/souls/the after life exists without using the scientific method? Things like these have been demonstrated to people through experiences, and I guess its still subjective even if a large number of people get positive, consistent results. Please save me the "fallible mind" lecture and everything that goes with it, I think thats drilled into everyones heads by now...

When I said you guys act like you know the secrets to the universe, I meant you act like you found the absolute truth that there is no truth because science has yet to reach that far. You guys say theres no such thing as certainty yet you are certain that these "supernatural" things can only be proven with science. 

I think its impossible to reply to this without regurgitating the "fallible mind" talk once more lol.


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## Beefbisquit (May 12, 2013)

God could reveal himself to you, personally - but that's not evidence, it's personal revelation. If God(s) exists in a literal, physical, tangible sense, then there should be some way to test for _something. _Now, whether we'll ever know how to perform that test is another matter not worth speculating on, but things that exist have some root in reality or else they are completely indistinguishable from the nonexistent, and should be treated as such.


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## Heisenberg (May 13, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I know its a duet, Im the clapper, and phew! I was afraid I was gunna start clapping again to the repetitive tune of "science doesnt know, so neither do you".
> 
> This discussion started because I wanted Z to accept his idea for what it is, an idea. Can you entertain the idea that its possible to know if Gods/souls/the after life exists without using the scientific method? Things like these have been demonstrated to people through experiences, and I guess its still subjective even if a large number of people get positive, consistent results. Please save me the "fallible mind" lecture and everything that goes with it, I think thats drilled into everyones heads by now...
> 
> ...


I'm disappointed that you don't remember the next verse. The same personal demonstration that tells us ghosts and gods exist also leads us to believe in alien abduction, sea hags, mummies, demonic possession, thetans, fairies, gremlins, subliminal advertising, unicorns, mermaids, Mormonism, leprechauns, time travel, psychic surgery, evil eye, homunculi, automatic writing, feng shui, orgone energy, palmistry, phrenology, shadow people, ley lines, electro-sensitivity, auras, chakras, spirit-animal guides, GMO and vaccines causing autism, akashic record, zombies, medical intuitives, Bigfoot army, vitalism, body snatchers, angel therapy, werewolves, astrology, karma, dowsing, graphology, neuro-linguistic programming, past-life regression, biorhythms, ghost trains, ghost ships, ghost cars, voodoo, facilitated communication, law of attraction, crystal power, meridian points, dianetics and that Oprah is a good talkshow host.

What criteria do you recommend we use to distinguish among all the different beliefs that can be demonstrated by personal experience? Or are they all equally valid?


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> I said very similar things earlier in this thread. Prepared to be ignored.
> 
> I chuckle when I read that he thinks general relativity is intuitive. It is IMO decidedly NOT intuitive, which is why it took someone with the genius of Einstein to break through. Even knowing all I do about relativity, it still is highly non-intuitive. Who would have thought that just by moving through space, we are also changing the speed of our personal clocks? NAU might believe it is intuitive to him NOW, but I would suspect had he not first gone through the process of LEARNING, that it would not be so intuitive. How about the fact that gravitation is really just a pseudo-force, much like centrifugal force, and not a primary force of nature? Black holes, a direct consequence of relativity, is so non-intuitive that many scientists doubted they could actually exist in nature until one was found. And now we find out that the entire universe is filled with them and virtually every galaxy has one at its center. Now if he can still say this is all intuitive, I will just say bullshit and put him on ignore.


"Mindphuck", seriously buddy I am fucking with you, I understand what you are saying, I understand your understanding, but we have two very different views on Intuition thats all, and I will always keep societies notion in mind but I will never change mine bc it does serve me quite well. It is not simple, and it takes a lot of deduction and inference to understand it, it would not have been possible to derive it from Intuition alone.


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> I am not traditionally educated. I have a high school GED. I am an autodidact. To the bolded: You seem to be confusing genuine ignorance with willful ignorance. Not having a formal education is no excuse for only exposing yourself to that knowledge which is advantageous to your preconceived ideas. A few posts ago you claimed you understood relativity just fine and considered it simple, now you say here that you have only learned what you wanted, and it's natural to spend a lifetime studying it without understanding it. Something is wrong if you can contradict yourself so easily in the span of two posts. You need to work on either your thinking skills, or your communication skills, because you appear to be saying random things without consistency, *aka talking out of your ass. *


Ego in bold, pointless, but hey I do it too, I just try to keep it out of this stuff. It's not that I am purposely ignoring it, it's just that I've read so much material that I want to kind of take a break and collect my thoughts, I actually did take a look at string theory and quantum loop gravity and I have to say that I highly prefer QLG, that is what I am going to devote my attention to next. I know I am saying things without consistency, I do that purposely to show what I mean by Intuition. "It is your Intuition that recognizes the counter-intuitive, it is your Intuition that knows to go beyond the Paradox and seek the Truth", there is a reason I have kept capitalizing Paradox, to catch your "Attention", the Knowing faculty of your mind(Intuition)This is a counter-intuitive, this is not logical, a paradox and a counter-intuitive are not synonamous, a counter-intuitive is broken logic, there is either a flaw there that needs to be corrected or it needs to be recognized as false. A paradox is something that seems to be counter-intuitive but actually contains an element of truth, it is a counter-intuitive that is intuitive, a paradox in itself. 

It is your intuition that recognizes the flaw in logic, it is your intuition that recognizes the truth in a paradox, it is your intuition that knows it has arrived at the truth in anything you are trying to grasp, it is the key to all understanding, it is the Knowing faculty of your mind, it is what Plato referred to as a devine insight, you are that divinity, you are the insightful one, the Knower, the one who understands.



Heisenberg said:


> But as pointed out, intuition doesn't know when it has arrived at truth. Intuition tells us the earth is flat and it stops there. Watching the sun rise and set everyday, the intuitive mind tells us that it revolves around us. Intuition is happy to never look beyond this "truth" until the addition of careful observation. Your definition of intuition fails to account for an obvious property of intuition, that it is often wrong. When previously confronted with this fact you performed cognitive acrobatics to get around it, similar to this below.


The sun revolves around the Earth, this is actually counter-intuivive, it is not logical to our understanding of the universe, at one time it was completely intuitive, so yes it most certainly can be wrong, it is only as good as the knowledge your mind contains.



Heisenberg said:


> Earlier you implied that intuition and insight were the same thing. Here you admit that intuition happens all the time, while insight is fleeting. You state this in a way that seems completely unaware that you just said something different a few minutes ago, which seems to be a theme with you.


I do not ever recall saying that intuition happens all the time, there is a faculty of Knowing that is Aware all of the time, but Intuition is only necessary in the process of thinking. Believe it or not it actually is possible to stop thinking, it takes a lot of Awareness. Think outside the box, did you ever think that maybe the box was logic itself, now I am not saying here that we should just throw away all of our knowledge, but somethings cannot be conveyed through logic, some things can only be conveyed through expression, Homer, Shakespeare, they were genius' of expressing that which is beyond logic, the metaphysical, if you ignore the metaphysical aspect of life, you are being willfully ignorant. 



Heisenberg said:


> I see you use this disclaimer often. The idea that if your arguments, which you took the time to share, aren't good enough then that's fine. If you are satisfied with faulty arguments and misconception then why should anyone else listen to you? How do you expect to teach other people stuff when everything you know is tailored to you? When you decide to keep understandings because they serve you quite well, you also decide to give up any value those understandings can have to other people.


I am trying to convey this to the best of my ability, both logically through Philosophy and metaphysically through Spirituality, some people do see what I am saying quite clearly, and that is why I take the time to share my views and opinions, some people refute it, and that is fine by me I am not trying to force anything on anybody, but keep in mind that I am not the only one with a rock hard shell. I can only give you my opinions, I can only let you find Truth and understanding for your self, and I wouldn't want it any other way, I would never want people to simply accept what I am saying, that is not true Enlightenment, if you are to understand anything, you must find that understanding for your self. 



Heisenberg said:


> So the wisdom you want to share with others is only valuable to those who are not intelligent? You seem to be suggesting that fantasy is fine for those dumb enough to find comfort in it.


Enlightenment is not an ideal to be strived for, that is not authentic at all, it is simply something to be realized, to be understood, to understand yourself and the world in which you live, if you feel you have a good enough understanding then I have no need of sharing anything with you, I can see the genius in everyone, and I can reveal that genius to some, some are already there, and I can tell by your intellect that you are already Enlightened, you have given me more wisdom than I have given you, I am always learning, if we do not evolve our certainties they will become prejudices or superstitions, trust me I took that to Heart. It is not fantasy, it is a very simple reality, to just open your eyes and live in Paradise, some people prefer the darkness. 

I am, that I am, and I am in Paradise only the sensual is unquestionably certain, as clear as the sun" Hegal

For everything else I must trust my Intuition to tell me what is Truth and what is not, and I do, absolutely, now don't get me wrong, I do not throw caution to the wind and neglect deductive reasoning and inference, it is the Knowing faculty of the mind, it is what allows me to understand the world, and I am well aware that Intuition can be wrong, it is only as good as the knowledge your mind contains, which is exactly why I never stop learning. 

By intuition I do not mean belief in the uncertain testimony of the senses or the deceptive judgment of the disordered imagination, but the conception of a clear and attentive mind so simple and distinct that we feel no doubt about what we are thinking. Or, what is the same thing, the firm conception of a clear and attentive mind, engendered only by the natural light of reason and which, thanks to its simplicity, is more reliable than deduction itself Descartes

Think outside the box, you do not have to go by dictionaries and encyclopedias, that is what Philosophy is all about, that is what Enlightenment is all about, finding your own understanding, trusting your own intuition, your own reasoning, in order to understand the world we must be knowlegable in the worlds understanding, but that does not mean we have to conform.


----------



## Beefbisquit (May 13, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Ego in bold, pointless, but hey I do it too, I just try to keep it out of this stuff. It's not that I am purposely ignoring it, it's just that I've read so much material that I want to kind of take a break and collect my thoughts, I actually did take a look at string theory and quantum loop gravity and I have to say that I highly prefer QLG, that is what I am going to devote my attention to next. I know I am saying things without consistency, I do that purposely to show what I mean by Intuition. "It is your Intuition that recognizes the counter-intuitive, it is your Intuition that knows to go beyond the Paradox and seek the Truth", there is a reason I have kept capitalizing Paradox, to catch your "Attention", the Knowing faculty of your mind(Intuition)*This is a counter-intuitive,* this is not logical, a paradox and a counter-intuitive are not synonamous, a counter-intuitive is broken logic, there is either a flaw there that needs to be corrected or it needs to be recognized as false. A paradox is something that seems to be counter-intuitive but actually contains an element of truth, it is a counter-intuitive that is intuitive, a paradox in itself.


I know you're not a fan of using words as they're actually defined, but counterintuitive is not a noun, it's an adjective. 



> It is your intuition that recognizes the flaw in logic, it is your intuition that recognizes the truth in a paradox, it is your intuition that knows it has arrived at the truth in anything you are trying to grasp, it is the key to all understanding, it is the Knowing faculty of your mind, it is what Plato referred to as a devine insight, you are that divinity, you are the insightful one, the Knower, the one who understands.





> The sun revolves around the Earth, this is actually counter-intuivive, it is not logical to our understanding of the universe, at one time it was completely intuitive, so yes it most certainly can be wrong, *it is only as good as the knowledge your mind contains.*


"The sun revolves around the earth" is completely *intuitive. *Without careful observation and analysis there is no way to intuitively *know *that the opposite is actually true. There is literally zero intuition required. 




> I do not ever recall saying that intuition happens all the time, there is a faculty of Knowing that is Aware all of the time, but Intuition is only necessary in the process of thinking. Believe it or not it actually is possible to stop thinking, it takes a lot of Awareness. Think outside the box, did you ever think that maybe the box was logic itself, now I am not saying here that we should just throw away all of our knowledge, but somethings cannot be conveyed through logic, some things can only be conveyed through expression, Homer, Shakespeare, they were genius' of expressing that which is beyond logic, the metaphysical, if you ignore the metaphysical aspect of life, you are being willfully ignorant.


Metaphysics? Metaphysics is like trying to fuck a hot girl on a TV set.... you get all hot and bothered watching her, thinking about what amazing things you could do with her, but when you try to have some form of physical contact or interaction with her you end up really disappointed, with a bottle of hand moisturizer.

That's to say, metaphysics are great to discuss and can be very though provoking, but that's as far as they go because we have absolutely zero way of testing any metaphysical premise. Otherwise, they'd be physical. 

You've clearly never studied metaphysics in much detail, otherwise you would already know how un-intuitive some metaphysical concepts really are. 


> I am trying to convey this to the best of my ability, both logically through Philosophy and metaphysically through Spirituality, some people do see what I am saying quite clearly, and that is why I take the time to share my views and opinions, some people refute it, and that is fine by me I am not trying to force anything on anybody, but keep in mind that I am not the only one with a rock hard shell. I can only give you my opinions, I can only let you find Truth and understanding for your self, and I wouldn't want it any other way, I would never want people to simply accept what I am saying, that is not true Enlightenment, if you are to understand anything, you must find that understanding for your self.
> 
> 
> Enlightenment is not an ideal to be strived for, that is not authentic at all, it is simply something to be realized, to be understood, to understand yourself and the world in which you live, if you feel you have a good enough understanding then I have no need of sharing anything with you, I can see the genius in everyone, and I can reveal that genius to some, some are already there, and I can tell by your intellect that you are already Enlightened, you have given me more wisdom than I have given you, I am always learning, if we do not evolve our certainties they will become prejudices or superstitions, trust me I took that to Heart. It is not fantasy, it is a very simple reality, to just open your eyes and live in Paradise, some people prefer the darkness.
> ...


If by conforming, you mean accepting demonstrable evidence as true until otherwise shown, I guess I'm a conformist.


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## mindphuk (May 13, 2013)

New Age United said:


> but we have two very different views on Intuition thats all, and I will always keep societies notion in mind but I will never change mine bc it does serve me quite well


This just tells me that you are using the word intuition as a placeholder for another word for a concept you have in mind but does not have a word for it. This is an improper use of words. The only way that words (and hence your posts) can mean something to other readers is if we are all in agreement on a definition. We don't need a dictionary but we do need accession.


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> "The sun revolves around the earth" is completely *intuitive. *Without careful observation and analysis there is no way to intuitively *know *that the opposite is actually true. There is literally zero intuition required.
> 
> Metaphysics? Metaphysics is like trying to fuck a hot girl on a TV set.... you get all hot and bothered watching her, thinking about what amazing things you could do with her, but when you try to have some form of physical contact or interaction with her you end up really disappointed, with a bottle of hand moisturizer.
> 
> ...


I am going to take mindphuk's advice, I will have to adapt, by Intuitive I mean Understandable, Knowable, without that Knowing faculty nothing could be Known, nothing could be understood, I will just say logical or understandable from now on. 

Lmfao!!!!!!, ok that's a Nihilist perspective, and I will never take on that perpective, but hey I respect that, but honestly if you need logic to understand Love/Hate, pain/pleasure, suffering/peace, then you will never understand what I mean by Paradise, the Earth itself, that is what it is to me, and if you do not agree then you do not agree. I actually use the term Spiritual Intuition for understanding the metaphysical, the mind, the ego, the Heart the Soul, I will have to find a way to convey this to the Nihilist persona, I realize that some people have absolutely no interest in Spirituality, I really don't know how to express it any other way. I have focused on the metaphysical and now I am going to focus on the physical, I will keep the Nihilist perspective in mind.


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> *in·tu·i·tion*
> 
> /&#716;int(y)o&#862;o&#712;iSH&#601;n/
> 
> ...


I do understand exactly what you are saying, it's just that there is some great Truth expressed in Plato's definition, now I know that is way outdated, but that doesn't mean that the Truth he was trying to convey does not still hold true, this is where the ancient wisdom comes in. I do realize that my theory is no where near complete, I have to learn here, and I realize now the absolute importance of Physics, I think it will be a great tool for revealing the genius within to people, and that is the key to understanding, people have to trust there own Knowing and understanding, everyone is unique and that is absolutely vital, I am not trying to change anyone, just make life easier for them, it does help a lot of people, and I will try to understand the Nihilist perspective.


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-intuition-13238
> 
> "These definitions are very useful because they remind us that intuition need not refer to some magical process by which answers pop into our minds from thin air or from deep within the unconscious."
> 
> "On the contrary: intuitive decisions are often a product of previous intense and/or extensive explicit thinking. Such decisions may appear subjectively fast and effortless because they are made on the basis of recognition."


Yes most certainly Heis, the rational mind and pondering are absolutely vital, and Plato expresses this as well, it is the recognizing that's exactly it, it's not that you can just pull the truth or the understanding out of thin air, you have to be able to see the whole picture.


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I wonder, if those who are so certain of their beliefs, would allow an idea to entertain their minds at least for a second or two if some sort of alien came down and claimed another idea of truth... or would you bludgeon that off as nothing and wrong just as you do with every other idea that conflicts with your own mind... as we have offered you countless times?


I'm sorry Zaehet it's just that I do not believe in free will, it's as simple as that, and like I say I don't think anbody should take on a perspective that they don't want to, I can still take wisdom from free will, I still enact my own free will, I do not constantly say I have no free will, it just I realize that my own reasoning is the result of a previous effect, life is just cause and effect taking place to me, that is what makes it so effortless, there are some perspectives that I cherish, I have worked hard to gain them, and I won't just let them go, and I don't suggest you do either, we are each our own person, and I do know exactly what you mean by pretending, yes we all do it, we do pretend to be who want to be sometimes. If an alien came down and started speaking about Truth, all I would do is listen, but I would still trust what I know, I would not just throw it away bc this alien says I should, and neither should anyone.


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Like the belief that its impossible to know if god exists?


Strictly my opinion, I tried to understand a supreme being for years, and couldn't grasp the purpose, but I can not deny that there is a good amount of wisdom that can be taken from the idea of supreme being, and I can not deny the possibility that one does exist, but I hold no beliefs about a supreme being.


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...maybe part of the problem is that some folks would benefit from seeing that an explanation doesn't provide an answer. The answer is purely subjective and might only provide a sense of direction. It takes a sht load of work to get to the middle of it all...no one can do it for you.


That is exactly my point, thank you, you said it better than I could, I can only give you my opinions, and I can only take yours into consideration and I do, but we must find Truth and understanding for ourselves.


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

ParkourMarkus said:


> Why would "God" even have anything to do with an idea like "effect"? The idea of an effect is a human one to explain a finite phenomenon, which has nothing to do with any so called "god" I would imagine.


Ya that's exactly it I just can't understand why one would be necessary.


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Cool opinion man.
> 
> Of course I dont have the abilities to show that Gods exist, thats silly, its not my motivation to do that. Though it seems when skeptics get questioned about their core beliefs, the answers you guys provide just have to be the truth and you vigorously try to force it onto theists that you guys so obviously look down upon. "Its impossible to know if god exists... Astral projection is just a diluted form of lucid dreaming... You didnt see a ghost!". If you put "*I think*" in front of each of those statements then it would be cool. You accuse us of being egotistic and arrogant about our beliefs yet its you guys who strut around like you found the holy grail, the secrets to the universe, the truth that every man, woman, and child should know. Its silly.
> 
> I got a feeling a band is getting together to once again play "The song that never ends". I dunno if I feel like clapping my hands to the tune this time, its all sooo repetitive .


I completely respect your beliefs and I know how important they are to some people, and I have to take some advice from this aswell, I have to take the atheist perspective out of my understanding, I will take an agnostic approach from now on. Sometimes I do get egotistical, I think we all do, once the ego starts up its hard to let go of it.


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Well, you used to try to prove supernatural claims to others here, but I think you've learned there's no way to do that...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You make some extremely good points here, and I know I speak about what I hold to be true but it is just my understanding, my view of things, no one has to accept it.


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> I'm disappointed that you don't remember the next verse. The same personal demonstration that tells us ghosts and gods exist also leads us to believe in alien abduction, sea hags, mummies, demonic possession, thetans, fairies, gremlins, subliminal advertising, unicorns, mermaids, Mormonism, leprechauns, time travel, psychic surgery, evil eye, homunculi, automatic writing, feng shui, orgone energy, palmistry, phrenology, shadow people, ley lines, electro-sensitivity, auras, chakras, spirit-animal guides, GMO and vaccines causing autism, akashic record, zombies, medical intuitives, Bigfoot army, vitalism, body snatchers, angel therapy, werewolves, astrology, karma, dowsing, graphology, neuro-linguistic programming, past-life regression, biorhythms, ghost trains, ghost ships, ghost cars, voodoo, facilitated communication, law of attraction, crystal power, meridian points, dianetics and that Oprah is a good talkshow host.
> 
> What criteria do you recommend we use to distinguish among all the different beliefs that can be demonstrated by personal experience? Or are they all equally valid?


Strictly my opinion, I don't believe in demonic possession, but I know some people who definately have some demons, and by this I mean they have no self control, a contradiction, see there are a lot of paradoxes I use aswell, they don't even have the effect of free will, they are completely consumed by their thoughts and emotions, they are reckless. I don't know about subliminal messaging but they can be persausive to the ego, especially if a person lacks self control, that's how Maserati's and Nike shoes sell, I think psychologists and psychiatrist can be very very intuitive to their patients needs, I can become aware of the Chi in myself directly, but I don't hold any importance on it, but yes the rest is a complete fiction, and you may hold the same for my perspective, that's fine, I don't hold too much importance on anything, that is one of the perspectives that I have worked hard to attain, the denial of the importance of material things, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the material things, it's a balance.


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

GregS said:


> Sure. I'll take it if it comes with beer.


Nothing wrong with cold beer, bbq, pussy, and weed, nothing wrong with enjoying your life, that's the whole point.


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

You guys are simply not the Spiritual type, I will have to try and find a way to convey my opinions and understanding to people who have no interest in Spirituality, just psychology and physics. Until then I think that's about all I can tell ya. I really did learn a lot and I appreciate it.


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> Fractal wrongness is the state of being wrong at every conceivable scale of resolution. That is, from a distance, a fractally wrong person's worldview is incorrect; and furthermore, if you zoom in on any small part of that person's worldview, that part is just as wrong as the whole worldview. Debating with a person who is fractally wrong leads to infinite regress, as every refutation you make of that person's opinions will lead to a rejoinder, full of half-truths, leaps of poor logic, and outright lies, that requires just as much refutation to debunk as the first one. It is as impossible to convince a fractally wrong person of anything as it is to walk around the edge of the Mandelbrot set in finite time.
> 
> http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fractal_wrongness


I understand exactly what you are saying Heis, and I respect your opinions, but I don't put too much importance on anything, not even the Truth, I enjoy my life to the fullest, and I don't understand why other people don't, I do but I don't, I know a contradiction, is it really that important, there is the truth.


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

A couple dollars falls out of my pocket everyday, and I know that not everyone can afford it, but if you can why not give it to the kids in the third world, give a little Love a lot

Life is meant to be a joyous occasion - Jesus

If you do want to learn more about this I would highly recommend the book A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle


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## Zaehet Strife (May 13, 2013)

You should watch this video Newage. It's only about 4 minutes. It may help you understand the mind set of many people on this forum in a simple, beautiful, short and easy to understand way. 

[video=youtube;1vNPInkeqg4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vNPInkeqg4&amp;feature=watch_response[/video]


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

Thank you Zaehet, that just shows our common humanity right there, the wonder, the beauty of science, and I am not afraid of not knowing, it is my not knowing that inspires me to understand, and what would we be with out that. We all try to grasp the uncertain, and I have taken great wisdom in what you have said about uncertainty.


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

I know what you are saying now Mindphuk, I think, the word I was looking for is You, it is You that recognizes the flaw, it is You that seeks the Truth, it is You that never finds the Truth, but still You keep on looking.


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## tyler.durden (May 13, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> You should watch this video Newage. It's only about 4 minutes. It may help you understand the mind set of many people on this forum in a simple, beautiful, short and easy to understand way.
> 
> [video=youtube;1vNPInkeqg4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vNPInkeqg4&amp;feature=watch_response[/video]


Wow, Z. That was really beautiful, thanks so much for posting...


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## tyler.durden (May 13, 2013)

New Age United said:


> I know what you are saying now Mindphuk, I think, the word I was looking for is You, it is You that recognizes the flaw, it is You that seeks the Truth, it is You that never finds the Truth, but still You keep on looking.


Hey, Newage. I was curious about who your greatest influences were in forming your perspective and your ideas. Your ideas, the terms you use, and their vagueness seem a lot like Chopra's, and I've seen you mention Tolle a couple of times. Just wondering...


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## New Age United (May 13, 2013)

I have read a few of Chopra's books, the 7 keys, Jesus and Muhammad, but my greatest infuence would have to be Tolle himself, but I must say the sriptures made it crystal clear for me, and although they are idealized as prophets, I can clearly see that they were philosophers, seekers of the truth. I think it is time for me to explore the physics, I think I will develop a much different philosophy in time, just physics and metaphysics.


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## MellowFarmer (May 14, 2013)

New Age United said:


> I have read a few of Chopra's books, the 7 keys, Jesus and Muhammad, but my greatest infuence would have to be Tolle himself, but I must say the sriptures made it crystal clear for me, and although they are idealized as prophets, I can clearly see that they were philosophers, seekers of the truth. I think it is time for me to explore the physics, I think I will develop a much different philosophy in time, just physics and metaphysics.


I have recently discovered metaphysics and it is blowing my mind to where I can only say I know it makes sense and rings so much more true than what we have been programmed to believe but I am still having difficulty explaining why it should make so much sense-

Who is aware that matter is energy reduced to a low vibration and pattern? Everything is energy, the vibration and pattern of the energy waves make up its physical form. Our physical bodies are not us, they are vehicles and tools. The brain is part of this physical tool, it is not who we are. We are awareness, we are One, from Source Energy otherwise known as Love.

There are infinite realities going on in the same time and space, another thing they didn't teach us about Einstein in school was his insight on all these dimensions and realities happening.


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## Selah (May 14, 2013)

Metaphysics is very similar to philosophy, they both use words in a way that makes us feel better. Sadly physical reality only abides to natural laws, regardless of how our words behave. A suggestion would be to study general semantics before an in-depth study of physics. It's important to keep interpretations at a minimum otherwise you won't do any justice to the science attached to it.

I understand your enthusiasm but metaphysics is a gross vulgarization of scientific discoveries.


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## eye exaggerate (May 14, 2013)

Selah said:


> Metaphysics is very similar to philosophy, they both use words in a way that makes us feel better. Sadly physical reality only abides to natural laws, regardless of how our words behave. A suggestion would be to study general semantics before an in-depth study of physics. It's important to keep interpretations at a minimum otherwise you won't do any justice to the science attached to it.
> 
> I understand your enthusiasm but metaphysics is a gross vulgarization of scientific discoveries.


...hi, Selah. How did you come to the conclusion that metaphysics are bastardizations of scientific discovery? The study of consciousness has been around a lot longer than the 'practice' of science has been.


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## Heisenberg (May 14, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Strictly my opinion, I don't believe in demonic possession, but I know some people who definately have some demons, and by this I mean they have no self control, a contradiction, see there are a lot of paradoxes I use aswell, they don't even have the effect of free will, they are completely consumed by their thoughts and emotions, they are reckless. I don't know about subliminal messaging but they can be persausive to the ego, especially if a person lacks self control, that's how Maserati's and Nike shoes sell, I think psychologists and psychiatrist can be very very intuitive to their patients needs, I can become aware of the Chi in myself directly, but I don't hold any importance on it, but yes the rest is a complete fiction, and you may hold the same for my perspective, that's fine, I don't hold too much importance on anything, that is one of the perspectives that I have worked hard to attain, the denial of the importance of material things, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the material things, it's a balance.


The post you are responding to was aimed at Chief. I don't believe what you are saying is as unrealistic as the things I listed. I think your ideas are much less coherent and understandable than any of those things. I can not even decipher a claim or concept being made by you, because your ideas change form in mid sentence an appear not to build on or extend from each other. It seems that you just say whatever random words happen to fall out of your brain and wrap them in arrogance.

I will say this. I like the way you conduct yourself when dealing with others. You do not present yourself as hostile and you do not take offense to being told you are wrong. Now if you could just learn to argue instead of assert and have some sort of consistency among your words and ideas, you might get somewhere. One of your problems is listening to Deepak, who also makes up shit as he goes along and defines words to have meanings advantageous to his ideas regardless if that definition actually means something to someone else. If you have ever heard Deepak give his account of Game of Thrones, you'll see that he barely even describes the show. Get's almost everything wrong. It's as if he's only watched the first 15 minutes of every episode and makes up the rest. This is a good demonstration of how he 'studies' quantum physics. He gets maybe 15% right and the rest is mental dysentery.

http://www.forgoodreason.org/victor_stenger_the_search_for_cosmic_consciousness


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## Beefbisquit (May 14, 2013)

Selah said:


> Metaphysics is very similar to philosophy, they both use words in a way that makes us feel better. Sadly physical reality only abides to natural laws, regardless of how our words behave. A suggestion would be to study general semantics before an in-depth study of physics. It's important to keep interpretations at a minimum otherwise you won't do any justice to the science attached to it.
> 
> I understand your enthusiasm but metaphysics is a gross vulgarization of scientific discoveries.


Metaphysics is a branch of philosophy and basically covers anything that doesn't have tangible evidence. 

I, like you, do find metaphysical concepts full of semantics; for example, when does a piece of plastic stop being a sheet of plastic and start being a bottle? When it's pressed? At what exact point during the pressing does it become a bottle? Does it retain the quality of being a sheet of plastic or does it lose it? lol... fucked up questions.... but when you really think about them, they're really un-intuitive.


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## tyler.durden (May 14, 2013)

I find this endlessly amusing, Chopra's random wisdom generator - http://www.wisdomofchopra.com/. I think Heis first posted this. Try it, it's fun and sounds just like him. An algorithm that provides 'enlightenment', hilarious...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 14, 2013)

MellowFarmer said:


> I have recently discovered metaphysics and it is blowing my mind to where I can only say I know it makes sense and rings so much more true than what we have been programmed to believe but I am still having difficulty explaining why it should make so much sense-
> 
> Who is aware that matter is energy reduced to a low vibration and pattern? Everything is energy, the vibration and pattern of the energy waves make up its physical form. Our physical bodies are not us, they are vehicles and tools. The brain is part of this physical tool, it is not who we are. We are awareness, we are One, from Source Energy otherwise known as Love.
> 
> There are infinite realities going on in the same time and space, another thing they didn't teach us about Einstein in school was his insight on all these dimensions and realities happening.


How have the hounds not pounced on this yet? I have a feeling someone will let the dogs out soon enough... Lol in all seriousness I agree with everything you said, great post. Im curious about Einsteins views on other realities, I never knew he pondered about that stuff. I've been lazy lately and havent got inspired to find out more stuff about reality, I should get on that...


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## MellowFarmer (May 15, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Metaphysics is a branch of philosophy and basically covers anything that doesn't have tangible evidence.
> 
> I, like you, do find metaphysical concepts full of semantics; for example, when does a piece of plastic stop being a sheet of plastic and start being a bottle? When it's pressed? At what exact point during the pressing does it become a bottle? Does it retain the quality of being a sheet of plastic or does it lose it? lol... fucked up questions.... but when you really think about them, they're really un-intuitive.


I believe the bottle is still plastic and therefore it would be vibrating at the same frequency and pattern. For example wood has a different vibration frequency and pattern than glass but plastic is still plastic. This is taken from http://dbem.ws/psi_world.html written by a researcher from Cornell University who believes he has shown proof of metaphysics, or psi, but it really began

Contemporary psi research is usually considered to have begun in 1927, when Joseph Banks Rhine and his wife/collaborator, Louisa, arrived in the psychology department at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina. Rhine's experiments, which tested for ESP with decks of cards containing geometric symbols, became well known to the general public in 1937, when he published New Frontiers of the Mind. The book received widespread press coverage and became a Book-of-the-Month Club selection. Even today, many Americans know of Rhine's work.

Also worth noting is

In 1983, Honorton and colleagues had initiated a new series of 11 ganzfeld studies, studies that complied with all the guidelines he and Hyman later published in their joint communiqué. They are called autoganzfeld studies because a computer controlled the experimental procedures, including the random selection and presentation of the targets and the recording of the receiver's ratings. These studies were published by Honorton in the _Journal of Parapsychology_ in 1990, and the complete history of ganzfeld research was resummarized by Bem (the author of this article) and Honorton in the January 1994 issue of the _Psychological Bulletin_ of the American Psychological Association.
The autoganzfeld studies confirmed the results of the earlier, less sophisticated studies, obtaining virtually the same hit rate: about 35 percent. These studies also reconfirmed several other findings from other research. For example, it has often been reported that creative or artistically gifted persons show high psi ability. The autoganzfeld studies tested this by recruiting twenty students from the Juilliard School in New York City to serve as receivers. Overall, these students achieved a hit rate of 50 percent, one of the highest hit rates ever reported for a single sample in a ganzfeld study. The autoganzfeld studies also found that significantly higher hit rates were obtained when the targets were videotaped film sequences than when they were still pictures.


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## Heisenberg (May 15, 2013)

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/the-power-of-replication-bems-psi-research/



"Needles to say, these results were met with widespread skepticism. There are a number of ways to assess an experiment to determine if the results are reliable. You can examine the methods and the data themselves to see if there are any mistakes. You can also replicate the experiment to see if you get the same results." *

Replicating Bem*

"Bem&#8217;s studies have not fared well in replication. Earlier this year Ritchie, Wiseman, and French published three independent replications of Bem&#8217;s 9th study, all negative. Of further interest is that the journal that originally published Bem&#8217;s article had declined to publish Ritchie et al&#8217;s paper claiming that they don&#8217;t publish replications. This decision (and editorial policy) was widely criticized, as it reflects an undervaluing of replications."


"It&#8217;s good to see that the journal has relented and agreed to publish a replication. Galak, LeBoeuf, Nelson, and Simmons should be commended, not only on their rigorous replication but their excellent article, which hits all the key points of this entire episode."


http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4348
_The new ganzfeld studies show a near-zero effect size and a statistically nonsignificant overall cumulation... The autoganzfeld results have not been replicated by a "broader range of researchers."  The ganzfeld paradigm cannot at present be seen as constituting strong evidence for psychic functioning._

​"With the death of Charles Honorton in 1992, interest in ganzfeld has declined somewhat, though psi researchers such as Dean Radin have continued to support it. The best lesson to be learned from ganzfeld experimentation is not so much that the technique has failed as evidence for psi, but rather that it is indeed possible for skeptics and believers to work together in a productive, positive, and collaborative way to find the truth. Hyman and Honorton showed us that the mainstream and the fringe need not always be squared off with an us-vs.-them mentality, and reminded us that the best researchers, whether they're right or wrong, embrace their critics and work with them to improve the state of our knowledge."


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## 420IAMthatIAM (May 15, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Ok so it's real late where I'm at and I'm about to go to bed, but real serious, does anybody out there want to receive Spiritual Enlightnement, and by this I mean does anyone want to live in complete Peace in Paradise. Now keep in mind that I haven't done any psychadelics in a long time lmfao, I haven't even smoked a j in quite awhile, but I gaurantee you, I can bring you into the promised land lmfao. It might seem like a practical joke but trust me I can do it. So if anyone's interested in this shit let me know.


you don't receive spiritual enlightenment you go after it


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## mindphuk (May 15, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> Hyman and Honorton showed us that the mainstream and the fringe need not always be squared off with an us-vs.-them mentality, and reminded us that the best researchers, whether they're right or wrong, embrace their critics and work with them to improve the state of our knowledge."


^^
This!

Those that have never participated in scientific research probably don't realize the intense scrutiny and sometimes overtly hostile confrontations that occur between scientists clamoring to outdo one another. The criticisms leveled at psuedoscientists and believers of weird is often framed in such a way to equate the criticism with arrogance and being unduly harsh when in fact it is business as usual. I think most lay people would be amazed at what it takes to defend a dissertation. A thick skin must be acquired to be a research scientist. If one has a pet theory or idea that is likely to be overtly criticized, whether you are a scientist or just a regular Joe that believes something that is not consistent with the laws of nature as we know them, one should be prepared to vigorously defend the idea with evidence and sound reasoning and not take critiques personally.


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## Heisenberg (May 15, 2013)

http://bit.ly/19tUOqb

What is a Good Study? Questions You Can Ask, Written by Kyle Hill 

"In becoming a science-based person, I can imagine a process that involves three tiers. First, you decide that you are going to get your information from reputable sources like scientific journals and then decide that any other claims that you find should have a similar backing. Second, pushing past the veneer of scientific legitimacy, you decide to look into the claims for yourself. This involves not only getting your information from sources based on scientific journal articles, for example, but also going through the study yourself to determine whether it is a &#8220;good&#8221; study. Lastly, after having navigated scientific sources for some time, you are able to evaluate claims base on methodologies and procedures that you would expect the offered evidence to have if it were indeed credible. Because most of us are not scientists and find it hard to invest in the education it would require to reside comfortably in the third tier, I will try to offer some help with the second."


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## cannabineer (May 18, 2013)

Beefbisquit said:


> Metaphysics is a branch of philosophy and basically covers anything that doesn't have tangible evidence.
> 
> I, like you, do find metaphysical concepts full of semantics; for example, when does a piece of plastic stop being a sheet of plastic and start being a bottle? When it's pressed? At what exact point during the pressing does it become a bottle? Does it retain the quality of being a sheet of plastic or does it lose it? lol... fucked up questions.... but when you really think about them, they're really un-intuitive.


Slightly dissenting opinion. Metaphysics treats of things that do not have complete physical evidence to support them, but otherwise hews to natural principles to the extent that we can apply or understand them. Physics and scientific natural philosophy are the world of "what can be shown". Metaphysics is the wider world of "what if", of inference and imagination but without the overt invocation of magic. Jmo. String theory and many-worlds hypothesis are prime examples of metaphysics to me.

When you leave the world of the plausible, of the at least inernally consistent, you'ver exceeded the bounds of metaphysics. 

Alternative, grad students + alcohol = metaphysics! cn


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## New Age United (May 30, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> The post you are responding to was aimed at Chief. I don't believe what you are saying is as unrealistic as the things I listed. I think your ideas are much less coherent and understandable than any of those things. I can not even decipher a claim or concept being made by you, because your ideas change form in mid sentence an appear not to build on or extend from each other. It seems that you just say whatever random words happen to fall out of your brain and wrap them in arrogance.
> 
> I will say this. I like the way you conduct yourself when dealing with others. You do not present yourself as hostile and you do not take offense to being told you are wrong. Now if you could just learn to argue instead of assert and have some sort of consistency among your words and ideas, you might get somewhere. One of your problems is listening to Deepak, who also makes up shit as he goes along and defines words to have meanings advantageous to his ideas regardless if that definition actually means something to someone else. If you have ever heard Deepak give his account of Game of Thrones, you'll see that he barely even describes the show. Get's almost everything wrong. It's as if he's only watched the first 15 minutes of every episode and makes up the rest. This is a good demonstration of how he 'studies' quantum physics. He gets maybe 15% right and the rest is mental dysentery.
> 
> http://www.forgoodreason.org/victor_stenger_the_search_for_cosmic_consciousness


Ok Hiesenburg, I am trying to argue, but it is a natural response to assume that I am just asserting my arrogant rock hard postition. If you are a truly intelligent person, you will not try to defeat me with your ego, you will try to defeat me with your intelligence, deduction, inference, reasoning, logic, nothing more, any topic, ask a question or give an opinion, I will reason with you, we will seek the Truth. "the point of an argument is not to win the argument, it is to seek the truth" Plato


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (May 30, 2013)

You'll soon find that Heis is always right, according to Heis... lol


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## New Age United (May 30, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> ^^
> This!
> 
> Those that have never participated in scientific research probably don't realize the intense scrutiny and sometimes overtly hostile confrontations that occur between scientists clamoring to outdo one another. The criticisms leveled at psuedoscientists and believers of weird is often framed in such a way to equate the criticism with arrogance and being unduly harsh when in fact it is business as usual. I think most lay people would be amazed at what it takes to defend a dissertation. A thick skin must be acquired to be a research scientist. If one has a pet theory or idea that is likely to be overtly criticized, whether you are a scientist or just a regular Joe that believes something that is not consistent with the laws of nature as we know them, one should be prepared to vigorously defend the idea with evidence and sound reasoning and not take critiques personally.


Very good point Mindphuk, I feel this way often, people equate my opinions with arrogance when really it is just business as usual, I think it is a natural reaction to assume that a differing opinion is angst, when in fact it very well could be the truth and expose the err of your own reasoning, people just refute it bc it goes against what they hold to be true. I must admit though, I am not prepared to vigorously defend my position, nor will I take critiques personally, bc I hold absolutely no thing to be important, that's bc no thing is important: Truth

If you disagree with me, please reason with me and explain the importance of things. What is important? Why is it important?


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## tyler.durden (May 30, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Very good point Mindphuk, I feel this way often, people equate my opinions with arrogance when really it is just business as usual, I think it is a natural reaction to assume that a differing opinion is angst, when in fact it very well could be the truth and expose the err of your own reasoning, people just refute it bc it goes against what they hold to be true. I must admit though, I am not prepared to vigorously defend my position, nor will I take critiques personally, bc I hold absolutely no thing to be important, that's bc no thing is important: Truth
> 
> If you disagree with me, please reason with me and explain the importance of things. What is important? Why is it important?


Hey Newage. A quick question, if nothing is important why did you spend so much time and effort into the attempt to 'enlighten' people? It certainly seems like that was important to you, why?


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## New Age United (May 30, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> Hey Newage. A quick question, if nothing is important why did you spend so much time and effort into the attempt to 'enlighten' people? It certainly seems like that was important to you, why?


Very good point tyler.durden, to me the meaning of life is Love, if Love is the "ultimate cause" then all things are of relative importance in comparison, Love is really the only true meaning in this world, but keep in mind that the Love of which I speak is not a heavy emotional sappy thing, it is a very ligth and easy thing, it is very natural, it is a part of every interaction between people that is not superseded by the Ego. I have seen this selfless Love in every human being, it is the much preferred way of things, but the Ego has such a strong force in the mind that it is hard to overcome "self importance", and thus the true ease of things becomes neglected and the struggle for self preservation becomes paramount in a persons life and life becomes a struggle instead of just an easy life of Peace, Bliss, laughter and Love in Paradise.


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## Zaehet Strife (May 30, 2013)

I wish i could believe the above statements, but two weeks ago, as i sat in a court room in Grand Rapids for a week, watching my older brothers trial, it was apparent to me that what you say is far from the truth... as it was found beyond reasonable doubt that he physically abused an 8 month year old baby girl to the point where it almost died, having to have part of its skull taken out and frozen because the swelling of her brain which would have led to an ischemic stroke, and inevitably death. He was found guilty by the jurors, he will get 11 years to life in prison, sentencing will be in four to six weeks.

Unfortunately, this planet is full of monstrous people. Sociopaths like my brother, who feel no guilt, no empathy, nor pain. Some people's brains just do not work in the same way as others, neither love nor compassion reside in some people. Life is not the fairytale we all dream it out to be. I think it is a very wise thing to do, to never forget that.

There are people out there who just want to hurt you, just because they want to hurt you. Some people just want to watch the world burn.


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## tyler.durden (May 30, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I wish i could believe the above statements, but two weeks ago, as i sat in a court room in Grand Rapids for a week, watching my older brothers trial, it was apparent to me that what you say is far from the truth... as it was found beyond reasonable doubt that he physically abused an 8 month year old baby girl to the point where it almost died, having to have part of its skull taken out and frozen because the swelling of her brain which would have led to an ischemic stroke, and inevitably death. He was found guilty by the jurors, he will get 11 years to life in prison, sentencing will be in four to six weeks.
> 
> Unfortunately, this planet is full of monstrous people. Sociopaths like my brother, who feel no guilt, no empathy, nor pain. Some people's brains just do not work in the same way as others, neither love nor compassion reside in some people. Life is not the fairytale we all dream it out to be. I think it is a very wise thing to do, to never forget that.
> 
> There are people out there who just want to hurt you, just because they want to hurt you. Some people just want to watch the world burn.


Wow, Z! That is the heaviest shit I've ever read on this site, thanks for sharing. It must be so fucking hard on you and your family, all the conflicting feelings of love and horror. Good luck, my friend. PM me if you ever need to talk...

Can't give you any more rep right now...


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## New Age United (May 30, 2013)

MellowFarmer said:


> I believe the bottle is still plastic and therefore it would be vibrating at the same frequency and pattern. For example wood has a different vibration frequency and pattern than glass but plastic is still plastic. This is taken from http://dbem.ws/psi_world.html written by a researcher from Cornell University who believes he has shown proof of metaphysics, or psi, but it really began
> 
> Contemporary psi research is usually considered to have begun in 1927, when Joseph Banks Rhine and his wife/collaborator, Louisa, arrived in the psychology department at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina. Rhine's experiments, which tested for ESP with decks of cards containing geometric symbols, became well known to the general public in 1937, when he published New Frontiers of the Mind. The book received widespread press coverage and became a Book-of-the-Month Club selection. Even today, many Americans know of Rhine's work.
> 
> ...


I completely respect your opinions mellowfarmer, and I can see that you have a good understanding of what I am saying, some just do not understand. I must infer however that we are not on the same page as far as Metaphysics is concerned, it is simply the things that can not be understood by logic, beauty, Love, Peace, Bliss, Paradise, these are things of expression, they are actually the much more important(relatively) things in life. 

"the vast majority of people on this planet do not inhabit a living universe, but a conceptiualized one" Tolle

All thoughts come and go in the blink of an eye, but the Ligth remains Eternal


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## New Age United (May 30, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I wish i could believe the above statements, but two weeks ago, as i sat in a court room in Grand Rapids for a week, watching my older brothers trial, it was apparent to me that what you say is far from the truth... as it was found beyond reasonable doubt that he physically abused an 8 month year old baby girl to the point where it almost died, having to have part of its skull taken out and frozen because the swelling of her brain which would have led to an ischemic stroke, and inevitably death. He was found guilty by the jurors, he will get 11 years to life in prison, sentencing will be in four to six weeks.
> 
> Unfortunately, this planet is full of monstrous people. Sociopaths like my brother, who feel no guilt, no empathy, nor pain. Some people's brains just do not work in the same way as others, neither love nor compassion reside in some people. Life is not the fairytale we all dream it out to be. I think it is a very wise thing to do, to never forget that.
> 
> There are people out there who just want to hurt you, just because they want to hurt you. Some people just want to watch the world burn.


There most certainly are people suffering from Psychopathy, I have seen many. I am actually working with a local psychologist and one in Romania, I am co-writing a book on Psychology. It most definately is important to recognize these traits in people and never forget it, this is where intuition can come in handy, sometimes we should trust those gut feelings we have about people. It is very unfortunate that these things have transpired, but you can not blame me or my opinions for that, what I am saying is that the material is not important, and that the pain has already come and gone, that evil does not truly exist outside of the human perspective. "Do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil"The Torah, they have the power to torment your Soul, your Heart, your emotions. Good is the "devils trick" Hamlet. Do not fight against the darkness that is the darkness. "Resist not evil" Jesus


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## mindphuk (May 30, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Very good point Mindphuk, I feel this way often, people equate my opinions with arrogance when really it is just business as usual, I think it is a natural reaction to assume that a differing opinion is angst, when in fact it very well could be the truth and expose the err of your own reasoning, people just refute it bc it goes against what they hold to be true. I must admit though, I am not prepared to vigorously defend my position, nor will I take critiques personally, bc I hold absolutely no thing to be important, that's bc no thing is important: Truth
> 
> If you disagree with me, please reason with me and explain the importance of things. What is important? Why is it important?


NAU, I have to say, although you and I have disagreed, you have never been disagreeable. You take criticism very well and it is refreshing to see that people can strongly argue against your position yet you have never really acted like you took anything personally. Great to have you on this forum.


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## New Age United (May 30, 2013)

If you resist evil, you are only torturing your self, this comes from a man who allowed himself to be nailed to a stick, for no other reason than the Love he had for all Humanity.


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## New Age United (May 30, 2013)

mindphuk said:


> NAU, I have to say, although you and I have disagreed, you have never been disagreeable. You take criticism very well and it is refreshing to see that people can strongly argue against your position yet you have never really acted like you took anything personally. Great to have you on this forum.


Thank you mindphuk, much appreciated seriosly brother, much respect


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## MellowFarmer (May 30, 2013)

New Age United said:


> Very good point tyler.durden, to me the meaning of life is Love, if Love is the "ultimate cause" then all things are of relative importance in comparison, Love is really the only true meaning in this world, but keep in mind that the Love of which I speak is not a heavy emotional sappy thing, it is a very ligth and easy thing, it is very natural, it is a part of every interaction between people that is not superseded by the Ego. I have seen this selfless Love in every human being, it is the much preferred way of things, but the Ego has such a strong force in the mind that it is hard to overcome "self importance", and thus the true ease of things becomes neglected and the struggle for self preservation becomes paramount in a persons life and life becomes a struggle instead of just an easy life of Peace, Bliss, laughter and Love in Paradise.


Yes and if you notice he asked who wanted enlightenment? He is not forcing you into his belief of enlightment but is happy to speak on it with you.

+rep


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## MellowFarmer (May 31, 2013)

New Age United said:


> I completely respect your opinions mellowfarmer, and I can see that you have a good understanding of what I am saying, some just do not understand. I must infer however that we are not on the same page as far as Metaphysics is concerned, it is simply the things that can not be understood by logic, beauty, Love, Peace, Bliss, Paradise, these are things of expression, they are actually the much more important(relatively) things in life.
> 
> "the vast majority of people on this planet do not inhabit a living universe, but a conceptiualized one" Tolle
> 
> All thoughts come and go in the blink of an eye, but the Ligth remains Eternal


I am only discovering metaphysics so I should not speak too deeply on the subject but I find it to be in complete agreement to what you believe. Or not? Do you understand about how we are all energy interacting with energy? That positive energy is always more powerful than negative energy and that even our thoughts are energy? 

Don't you ever walk into a room and just know some hate went down? You then hear about something like a fight or worse that you just missed? It feels heavy in the air doesn't it? That is the negative energy or yin imho and when the opposite occurs and you are around positive people who are happy and full of love, that is the positive, or yang energy. 

I believe I can send Light and Love to those who need it and if I am wrong so be it lol have I not gotten to the not so chill parts of this vast study?

Hey Zaehat! So Sorry! May I send you, your brother, and especially that girl's family some light and love? It at the very least feels good to know others do care enough to do our silly rituals. It may just make us feel better but we believe positive only attracts positive. Peace and Love.


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## New Age United (Jun 15, 2013)

MellowFarmer said:


> I am only discovering metaphysics so I should not speak too deeply on the subject but I find it to be in complete agreement to what you believe. Or not? Do you understand about how we are all energy interacting with energy? That positive energy is always more powerful than negative energy and that even our thoughts are energy?


Speak as deeply as you like, I find that it is through your own error that understanding most often comes, the truth is often revealed by falsehood, whether it is by contemplation or by someone else pointing it out to you. Yes it is energy that is the Life of the universe, otherwise it would just be empty Space. My opinion, yes our thoughts are energy, vibrating at their own frequency and there are positive and negative, positive thoughts and emotions are always much more productive, however the negative does fulfill a purpose of its own, whether to for self reflection or simply as a means of destruction, the decay of matter is just as important as the production, it is a balance. That is not to say that we should be consumed or fueled by negativity, the thing is that the mind can become so out of balance that it is in the end the means of the destruction of its self, like a cancer that does not realize that by consuming the organism it is in fact bringing about its own demise. 


MellowFarmer said:


> Don't you ever walk into a room and just know some hate went down? You then hear about something like a fight or worse that you just missed? It feels heavy in the air doesn't it? That is the negative energy or yin imho and when the opposite occurs and you are around positive people who are happy and full of love, that is the positive, or yang energy.


Most definately, our thoughts spark emotion, and emotion is very radiant, it is as if our nervous system has sensors that can detect this vibration, it actually plays a very important role in our interactions with people, this is one of the meanings of intuition, an instinctive response, it is especially noticeable during a confrontation, it grabs right on to people and directs all focus to it, and yes it is most certainly an energy that lingers even after the fact, it is really a chain reaction that remains active in the Heart and spreads like wildfire from person to person, it is a cause that has a continual effect. 


MellowFarmer said:


> I believe I can send Light and Love to those who need it and if I am wrong so be it lol have I not gotten to the not so chill parts of this vast study?
> 
> Hey Zaehat! So Sorry! May I send you, your brother, and especially that girl's family some light and love? It at the very least feels good to know others do care enough to do our silly rituals. It may just make us feel better but we believe positive only attracts positive. Peace and Love.


Resist not evil, that is true Enlightenment. It is this chain reaction that is the cause of all conflict in the world today, it began long long ago, and if only this conflict were to meet the Light, we would see a true change in the world, if from one Heart to another there was nothing but Love, then you would see all darkness flee in the blink of an eye. Of course it is not that easy, the darkness is a force that has great momentum, and the Light is but a sapling pushing its way to the surface of the Earth, it must be made strong by the wind and the rain, but I have great faith that one day the Light will be like a mighty Oak, and the darkness will be but fig that withers and dies.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Jun 15, 2013)

no just fuckin no


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## New Age United (Dec 5, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> The scientific view of intuition is much like its view of anecdotal evidence. It can be an indication of where to begin study, or in the complete absence of direction, can offer a hint of where a theory could go. It can be useful in the beginning of the scientific method which is why the steps which filter out things like intuition and anecdotal evidence come later in the process. The problem is that intuition is highly prone to error and different perspectives can produce intuitive answers which contradict each other. Intuition can be very hard to resist and often times in science finding accurate answers means embracing counter-intuitive thinking. Intuition is not instinct or insight, and has about as much value to science as a paperweight or bookmark.


Genius Heisenberg, pure Genius, I understand this completely now, your view of Intuition as an instinctive impulse, it can lead to curiosity, a wondering, is your impulse correct or is it deception, is your Intuition sharp enough to discern the truth without Knowing, and of course this impulse can and often is wrong, but the Knowing facutly, it is this faculty which not only seeks the truth, but Knows the truth when it has found it, it is this of which I speak when I speak about Intuition.


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## Zaehet Strife (Dec 6, 2013)

I don't think i want to be enlightened by anyone who has an avatar that says "oh look, your moms dildo arrived".


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## New Age United (Dec 6, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I don't think i want to be enlightened by anyone who has an avatar that says "oh look, your moms dildo arrived".


It's funny Zaehet but you don't look like such a serious person in the pic, I accept you brother your good shit.


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## Zaehet Strife (Dec 6, 2013)

I'm just a happy go lucky kinda guy, just sayin bro, no way. lol.


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## New Age United (Oct 29, 2014)

I took a quick read through this thread and a couple of things caught my Attention, so I’ve decided to revive this thread in case anybody is interested. The last time was a great learning experience for me and I got to help just a few people. If you are interested in Enlightenment or if you just like Philosophy and want to state you opinions and arguments then you are more than welcome, mature adults only please. If you are suffering and need help you can pm me.

I noticed that a few people earlier in this thread were saying that Ghandi was not Enlightened, that is like saying that Nelson Mandela is not Enlightened because he was once an extremist, what you have to realize is that Enlightenment has to be practiced and given great Attention, many disillusionments must be faced, the Ego has tremendous momentum in the mind, and it first has to lose that momentum.


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## New Age United (Oct 29, 2014)

Harrekin said:


> Can someone tell me what my "higher self" is made of, ie what base material is it made from?
> 
> Same with the soul, what is it comprised of?


The higher self is formless, nothingness, One with the whole of Space, but not the fabric of the space-time continuum, the Space which is the container of all space-time. You are Space, that is where You art, that is your seat in the universe, your Awareness is a focal point in space-time, a frame of reference. You are the Light, both within and without, the Light is formless, Space, nothingness, emptiness, a very negative idea to the mind, I am nothing, a very deep Truth which only your Intuition can grasp, which only the Knower can grasp, which only You can grasp.

You are the higher Self, your True Self, Awareness. The Mortal Soul exists in your mind, which is comprised of energy, just as all things are energy. The movement of soul energy throughout your body has long been referred to as the Chi, it is emotional energy, it sits in the Dandian which is located just below the naval in the abdomen, if you are highly Aware of the inner body you can feel the latent energy in the Dandian, and you can feel the movement of emotional energy along the pathways of the Chi, you can feel that energy evading the mind and ultimately controlling your thoughts and actions, your Soul. The Soul is the individual human form, and thus is mortal, the True Self actually is Immortal, Space, Eternity itself, how can you destroy nothing.

The Mortal Soul is the perspective of a mortal human being living in Time, the Ego, but if you can snap out of the illusion of Time and come fully into the Present Moment, then your mind will come to a stand still and everything that I am saying will be completely Intuitive.


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## New Age United (Oct 29, 2014)

Zaehet Strife said:


> So if that's the case... what is the point of it all?


Is it ok if there is no point, is it ok if life is completely meaningless, is it ok just to be Alive, to be at Peace, to be full of Bliss, and to truly Love the entire world, all you have to do is open your eyes, come and dine with me in Paradise people.


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## Skuxx (Oct 29, 2014)




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## New Age United (Oct 29, 2014)

Very good video, thanks for sharing, this will come in handy I'm glad I found. Thanks a bunch


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## insidagain (Oct 29, 2014)

Yes, anyone who has died on the table and returned will attest to their enlightenment.


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## New Age United (Oct 29, 2014)

mindphuk said:


> Sounds like special pleading combined with begging the question to me. "oh, you just can't understand that's why you think I'm spouting bullshit, but in reality, if you were enlightened, you would understand how to become enlightened."
> 
> Your capitalizing "Truth" implies unique and special knowledge, and not your mundane, objective, truth such as what Einstein and Newton were referring. If you think there is one unique "truth" you should be able to demonstrate it without your contradictory, psuedo-spiritual nonsense. You can't even use consistent definitions of words. In spite of requests, you have yet to demonstrate anything like you claim actually exists. No one's ideas need to be taken seriously on their word alone.
> 
> ...


Sounds like special pleading combined with begging the question to me- a misconception, the mind is very good at that. I do understand how to become enlightened, but being enlightened is not important at all. If it is necessary for me to state that I am enlightened I will, I am whatever I need to be in the moment I need to be it.

Psuedo-Spiritual nonsense- what if the nonsense actually was the Truth, as we have already been through before mindphuk, blackholes, what was once unintuitive becomes intuitive, intuition is never wrong, a counter-intuitive in itself.

I wanted to address you mindphuk because you seem to be the most neutral, weighing ideas as opposed to just throwing them out there, but still you must be more open minded if you want to attain Enlightenment, again it is not important.


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## New Age United (Oct 29, 2014)

The Truth absolutely must be completely Intuitive, it must make sense, it must be whole, it must ring as True in our Hearts and in our Minds. The Knower, You, literally is an Immortal Genius.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 29, 2014)

New Age United said:


> I took a quick read through this thread and a couple of things caught my Attention, so I’ve decided to revive this thread in case anybody is interested. The last time was a great learning experience for me and I got to help just a few people.


You say that the last time was a great learning experience for you, would you mind elaborating on what exactly you learned? It seems like you are spouting the same new-age, vague drivel that you were in 2013. Also, who exactly did you help, and how so?



> If you are interested in Enlightenment or if you just like Philosophy and want to state you opinions and arguments then you are more than welcome, mature adults only please. If you are suffering and need help you can pm me.


How are you qualified to help someone who is suffering? You are again setting yourself up as some teacher or guru, but we haven't seen you answer any of the criticism that was aimed at your ideas over a year ago. You haven't been able to answer the serious questions in this thread, how can you be considered a teacher? Why would anyone take you seriously until you do so?



> I noticed that a few people earlier in this thread were saying that Ghandi was not Enlightened, that is like saying that Nelson Mandela is not Enlightened because he was once an extremist, what you have to realize is that Enlightenment has to be practiced and given great Attention, many disillusionments must be faced, the Ego has tremendous momentum in the mind, and it first has to lose that momentum.


Yes, I brought that up. My point was that while Ghandi had good ideas in some respects, he held hateful and ignorant racist ideas (that he backed up with horrible actions), as well. You haven't even given a concrete definition of what you mean by enlightenment, and capitalizing the word seems like a cheap, dime-store advertisement (Enlightenment!™).



New Age United said:


> The Truth absolutely must be completely Intuitive, it must make sense, it must be whole, it must ring as True in our Hearts and in our Minds. The Knower, You, literally is an Immortal Genius.


Another assertion with no backing or support. This is simply your opinion, not objective reality. I see no growth since you've started this thread, and you seem to share delusional traits with our resident messiah, Nevaeh420. He actually offers more support of his position that he is christ than you do of being enlightened. That's unnerving...


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## New Age United (Oct 31, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> You say that the last time was a great learning experience for you, would you mind elaborating on what exactly you learned? It seems like you are spouting the same new-age, vague drivel that you were in 2013. Also, who exactly did you help, and how so?


I learned not to insult those who do not see, it is really not their fault, their minds are just too active, the Ego has too much strength over the will. I honestly do not believe that I have enough Ego left to react in such a way again, there are still remnants of my Ego, it still pops up every once and a while. I helped 3 members who I would never tell you there identity by pm, also a few members messaged me to thank me and + rep me, did you notice how during that time my rep meter kept going up. 


[QUOTE/]How are you qualified to help someone who is suffering? You are again setting yourself up as some teacher or guru, but we haven't seen you answer any of the criticism that was aimed at your ideas over a year ago. You haven't been able to answer the serious questions in this thread, how can you be considered a teacher? Why would anyone take you seriously until you do so?[/QUOTE]
I know that can help people transcend suffering because I've done it at least a hundred times, I do it everyday, I don't stop teaching Enlightenment, even in a regular conversation with people I am teaching Enlightenment, I am a servant to a higher power, my life has become completely effortless. I got a lot of responses the last time and could not find the time to respond to all of the criticism, I like to take my time and way my thoughts before I put them out there, sometimes if an answer doesn't come to me then I simply give up and realize that ultimately it is not important, I'm not going to just spurt out any response that comes to mind. 



[QUOTE/]Yes, I brought that up. My point was that while Ghandi had good ideas in some respects, he held hateful and ignorant racist ideas (that he backed up with horrible actions), as well. You haven't even given a concrete definition of what you mean by enlightenment, and capitalizing the word seems like a cheap, dime-store advertisement (Enlightenment!™).[/QUOTE]
I will give a definition of what I am referring to when I say Enlightenment in my next post.



[QUOTE/]Another assertion with no backing or support. This is simply your opinion, not objective reality. I see no growth since you've started this thread, and you seem to share delusional traits with our resident messiah, Nevaeh420. He actually offers more support of his position that he is christ than you do of being enlightened. That's unnerving...[/QUOTE]
Yes it is my strictly my opinion, Time is an illusion(subjective) but the Earth is very Real(objective). The universe as it exists in Space, space-time existing in Eternity, that is Ultimate Reality.
I never asserted my position of being Enlightened and I have no need to prove that I am.


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## New Age United (Oct 31, 2014)

Can someone tell me how to properly quote lol


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## New Age United (Nov 1, 2014)

“Why does he eat with the sinners and the tax gatherers?”

“I came eating and drinking, and they will call me a gluttonous and a drunkard, this is why they will not believe that I am there messiah”

"they will not recognize their messiah"

What is Enlightenment?

How can you recognize it if you don’t even know what it is. When Siddhartha Gautama was asked what is Enlightenment all he would reply is “the end of suffering”, but how do we get to that state, how do we transcend suffering, how do we go about our own Enlightenment.

Enlightenment is a state of being in which you are able to separate your Self from the Thinker inside your Mind and recognize your True Self as pure Awareness. If you are able to maintain this state of being you will eventually be able to stop the over activity of the Mind and bring Balance to your life.

In this state of being you are completely free of Fear and Desire, that does not mean you can not take precaution to guard yourself from danger, nor does it mean you can not enjoy the fruit of the garden, you can still have sex, you can still eat your favourite foods, you can still smoke pot and drink beer, in fact as your Awareness rises and you become more alert to your senses you will be able to enjoy these things even more.

I was sitting in a bar teaching Enlightenment and I said to a guy – I have no desire

He said – you just bought a beer

I said- yes I just bought a beer, that just happened, I bought a beer, things happen

I took the beer and took a good pallet filling gulp, I paid direct Attention to the beer, I prefer Budweiser because it is more full flavoured than other beers, as long as I can pace myself to one beer every half our I can maintain a pleasant buzz without getting too loaded.

In the state of being which is Enlightenment you will also be more Loving, more caring for all beings on this planet. You are more Loving because you are at Peace, you are full of Bliss, and free from suffering. The Bliss of which I speak is not an overwhelming emotion, it is a very light and easy thing, just as the Love of which I speak is not an overwhelming emotion but a very light and easy thing.

Here is a counter intuitive, if you can stop thinking your mind will become sharper, but it is true, by giving your mind a break from the constant stream of thinking it will become much sharper when you do have to use it. In the state of Enlightenment you will find that your Thoughts become much wiser, the Truth comes to you with great ease, you will gain insights that otherwise would not be possible.

In this state of Enlightenment you will find that you are much more successful at manifesting your intentions and by paying greater Attention to things a much greater quality will go into everything you do, you will accomplish things with much greater ease, your life will be completely effortless, you will not have to strain to succeed.


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## New Age United (Nov 1, 2014)

Another important disillusionment, the unimportance of all things.

Relative Importance. If you are building a house it is very important that you lay the foundation first, but when you realize that the construction of the house itself is not actually important then the laying of the foundation loses its significance as well. If humanity is to survive for any great length of time the vast majority of human beings on this planet will have to attain Enlightenment, they will have to Awaken to the Immortal Truth, so in this case Enlightenment is very important, but when you realize that even the survival of humanity itself is not important, again the attainment of Enlightenment loses its significance.

Importance is just another one of the many concepts in your mind, it is subjective not objective, the key to Enlightenment is to find the Balance between the subjective and the objective, between form and formless, between the world and Space.


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## tyler.durden (Nov 1, 2014)

New Age United said:


> Another important disillusionment, the unimportance of all things.
> 
> Relative Importance. If you are building a house it is very important that you lay the foundation first, but when you realize that the construction of the house itself is not actually important then the laying of the foundation loses its significance as well. If humanity is to survive for any great length of time the vast majority of human beings on this planet will have to attain Enlightenment, they will have to Awaken to the Immortal Truth, so in this case Enlightenment is very important, but when you realize that even the survival of humanity itself is not important, again the attainment of Enlightenment loses its significance.
> 
> Importance is just another one of the many concepts in your mind, it is subjective not objective, the key to Enlightenment is to find the Balance between the subjective and the objective, between form and formless, between the world and Space.


By your logic, teaching enlightenment and/or learning enlightenment is ultimately meaningless and unimportant. You can now stop wasting your time by posting here...


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## New Age United (Nov 1, 2014)

Yes it is meaningless, pointless, but only to the few, I have great news, humanity is doing well, people are much more conscious these days, we are coming to the end of our evolution.


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## New Age United (Nov 1, 2014)

Are you afraid of the Truth perhaps Tyler Durden


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## tyler.durden (Nov 2, 2014)

New Age United said:


> Are you afraid of the Truth perhaps Tyler Durden


I don't know, I'm not sure if I've run across it yet. Are you afraid of facts?


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## thepenofareadywriter (Nov 2, 2014)

New Age United said:


> Are you afraid of the Truth perhaps Tyler Durden


why would anyone be afraid of truth...the lie is one you should fear...question...when did you stop believing in Santa clause?


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## New Age United (Nov 3, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> I don't know, I'm not sure if I've run across it yet. Are you afraid of facts?


I'm not afraid of the facts and I'm not afraid of being wrong, I've been wrong many times before and many times again, I am always glad to be corrected, the truth is not important but it can be very valuable. I'm not afraid of the lie either, there is no fear in me, and it could be the same for you. 
When reading my words try slowing down and paying more Attention to what I am saying, it just might start making more sense to you, you just might find a truth you can be certain of. Keep in mind that I am not against you, I am not trying to defeat you.


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## New Age United (Nov 3, 2014)

thepenofareadywriter said:


> why would anyone be afraid of truth...the lie is one you should fear...question...when did you stop believing in Santa clause?


Someone would be afraid of the truth because it may be what is considered bad or evil, they are afraid that the truth may be an unwanted thing, such as is the case when a parent loses a child, they don't want to accept that the truth is their child is dead.They may also fear the truth because it could destroy their own beliefs, the mind, the Thinker, holds great pride in its beliefs, the truth could hurt the ego. 
I was 4 or 5, I can still remember the disappointment, but the disillusionments only get harder we age, from santa Clause to the ultimate disillusionment when we have to face death.


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## tyler.durden (Nov 3, 2014)

New Age United said:


> I'm not afraid of the facts and I'm not afraid of being wrong, I've been wrong many times before and many times again, I am always glad to be corrected, the truth is not important but it can be very valuable. I'm not afraid of the lie either, there is no fear in me, and it could be the same for you.


By not answering thoughtful questions and criticisms throughout this thread, it seems as if you are either afraid of or hiding from something, or your beliefs are not clear enough or strong enough to defend and explain. Take your words above, "the truth is not important but it can be very valuable." If something is valuable, it OBVIOUSLY important. Words have distinct, concrete meanings that many new age philosophies, such as yours, attempt to twist and misuse in order to obscure the critical thinking of the reader. It is obvious and easy to detect for the trained mind. Perhaps you are afraid of giving up this 'enlightened' belief system - it is often difficult for people who have invested years in specious belief systems to admit that they have wasted time on a dead end, and instead keep defending the charade in an attempt to continue fooling themselves...



> When reading my words try slowing down and paying more Attention to what I am saying, it just might start making more sense to you, you just might find a truth you can be certain of.


Unless obviously for the sake of humor, whenever I post a reply, it is always through thoughtful effort after carefully considering the ideas presented. I've been through this entire thread, and you only present a few ideas reworded differently. For example, it has been asked of you to support one of your central ideas (that the truth must be intuitive) which you have yet to do, you have also been shown examples where the truth is actually counter-intuitive. You state that you agree, then revert to uttering the same tired line. You are either very confused, or you are being deceptive. Even when something you say is shown not to be true, you keep right on with the idea as if it didn't happen. That is delusional, so I can't imagine finding any certainty here...




> Keep in mind that I am not against you, I am not trying to defeat you.


Of course not - we don't know each other. The only thing we know are the ideas presented. You seem to post here to spread your ideas and philosophy, I am here to attempt to verify if it is credible and in line with objective reality. So far, I have been unable to do so...


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## thepenofareadywriter (Nov 3, 2014)

New Age United said:


> Someone would be afraid of the truth because it may be what is considered bad or evil, they are afraid that the truth may be an unwanted thing, such as is the case when a parent loses a child, they don't want to accept that the truth is their child is dead.They may also fear the truth because it could destroy their own beliefs, the mind, the Thinker, holds great pride in its beliefs, the truth could hurt the ego.
> I was 4 or 5, I can still remember the disappointment, but the disillusionments only get harder we age, from santa Clause to the ultimate disillusionment when we have to face death.


I think that would just be bad news...but to say someone is afraid of everyday truth ummm... and I think most people are comfortable with the fact that they know that they will die one day, might not like it but it is an acceptable fact...as far as religious truth or spiritual enlightenment, will that's a whole different story, what might be truth to me might be total nonsense to someone else...


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## New Age United (Nov 4, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> Unless obviously for the sake of humor, whenever I post a reply, it is always through thoughtful effort after carefully considering the ideas presented. I've been through this entire thread, and you only present a few ideas reworded differently. For example, it has been asked of you to support one of your central ideas (that the truth must be intuitive) which you have yet to do, you have also been shown examples where the truth is actually counter-intuitive. You state that you agree, then revert to uttering the same tired line. You are either very confused, or you are being deceptive. Even when something you say is shown not to be true, you keep right on with the idea as if it didn't happen. That is delusional, so I can't imagine finding any certainty here...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very good response. I will try to take more time and respond to questions and arguments. Before you find the truth you almost always will run in to at least one counter-intuitive, but that does not mean that the truth itself is not intuitive, I have been trying to give examples of how what was once unintuitive becomes intuitive. 
Please give me an example of where one of my opinions was shown to be not true, and then we can start an official debate from there.


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## New Age United (Nov 4, 2014)

thepenofareadywriter said:


> I think that would just be bad news...but to say someone is afraid of everyday truth ummm... and I think most people are comfortable with the fact that they know that they will die one day, might not like it but it is an acceptable fact...as far as religious truth or spiritual enlightenment, will that's a whole different story, what might be truth to me might be total nonsense to someone else...


Have you ever lost a loved one, the bad news creates a lot of suffering, you are comfortable with the idea of death until death approaches, then it becomes a time of great fear and suffering, see you are actually avoiding the truth with simple affirmations, but one day you will have to face truth, the reality, and not just the thought of pain and death.

If it is the truth it should be understandable by the majority of human beings, just as the avg person could easily understand relativity if they had the proper instruction.


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## New Age United (Nov 4, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> Take your words above, "the truth is not important but it can be very valuable." If something is valuable, it OBVIOUSLY is important


You could have said that both importance and value are subjective constructs of the mind, and that would have blew this little conundrum to pieces. I use that to show people that the truth can be very useful and of relative importance, it can be very important to succeeding at anything, but remember that ultimately even success is not important. You must find the perfect balance between objective and subjective.


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## Ceepea (Nov 4, 2014)

New Age United said:


> Very good response. I will try to take more time and respond to questions and arguments. Before you find the truth you almost always will run in to at least one counter-intuitive, but that does not mean that the truth itself is not intuitive,


That is the exact opposite definition of intuitive. If everything was intuitive, it'd be easy to find the truth without ever having to run across something counter-intuitive. What you're claiming doesn't even make sense. If 'truth' were always intuitive, you couldn't run into a counter-intuitive problem.

That's like saying, "while walking through a field of all red flowers, you might see blue flowers"..... well, no you won't, or it's not a field of red flowers... Much like if you encounter truths that are counter-intuitive not all truths can be intuitive.

If the truth was always intuitive you'd know the answer to everything without any external stimuli, e.g. experience. 



> I have been trying to give examples of how what was once unintuitive becomes intuitive.
> Please give me an example of where one of my opinions was shown to be not true, and then we can start an official debate from there.


You said humans are 'coming to the end of our evolution'. That's patently false as genetic mutation never stops.

In post #366 you say that you've been wrong many times. I don't think you know what you're actually saying when you state things like 'the truth is intuitive'.....


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## thepenofareadywriter (Nov 4, 2014)

New Age United said:


> Have you ever lost a loved one, the bad news creates a lot of suffering, you are comfortable with the idea of death until death approaches, then it becomes a time of great fear and suffering, see you are actually avoiding the truth with simple affirmations, but one day you will have to face truth, the reality, and not just the thought of pain and death.
> 
> If it is the truth it should be understandable by the majority of human beings, just as the avg person could easily understand relativity if they had the proper instruction.


I


New Age United said:


> Have you ever lost a loved one, the bad news creates a lot of suffering, you are comfortable with the idea of death until death approaches, then it becomes a time of great fear and suffering, see you are actually avoiding the truth with simple affirmations, but one day you will have to face truth, the reality, and not just the thought of pain and death.
> 
> If it is the truth it should be understandable by the majority of human beings, just as the avg person could easily understand relativity if they had the proper instruction.


I am 63 years old, so yes I have lost many...and seen much misery...but the older I get the clearer life becomes...I would not want to die today, nor in the near future, because I do enjoy life as it is...but fear death, nope...not me and I am sure many people feel the same as I do, it is just a part of life, death will come and shit happens


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## New Age United (Nov 5, 2014)

thepenofareadywriter said:


> I
> 
> I am 63 years old, so yes I have lost many...and seen much misery...but the older I get the clearer life becomes...I would not want to die today, nor in the near future, because I do enjoy life as it is...but fear death, nope...not me and I am sure many people feel the same as I do, it is just a part of life, death will come and shit happens


You may already be Enlightened. Let not the focus be on being enlightened, that can lead to a false perspective of self, ego. Let the focus be 90 the state 90 being which is enlightenment.


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## New Age United (Nov 5, 2014)

Ceepea said:


> If the truth was always intuitive you'd know the answer to everything without any external stimuli, ie experience


Genius

There is still a deep truth in every truth being both counter-intuitive and intuitive, it is a paradox, I have yet to explain this by deduction.

Can you tell me how you Know that genetic mutation will never stop.


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## tyler.durden (Nov 5, 2014)

New Age United said:


> Genius
> 
> There is still a deep truth in every truth being both counter-intuitive and intuitive, it is a paradox, I have yet to explain this by deduction.


There is a deep truth within every truth? This makes no sense to me. Kindly explain that statement. "'There is a deep blue in every blue". Well, duh. Of course, it's _blue_, after all! Also, there are some truths that are simply intuitive without being counter-intuitive, and some that are counter-intuitive without being intuitive. So, we can see that your statement above that all truths are always both intuitive and counter-intuitive is obviously incorrect...



> Can you tell me how you Know that genetic mutation will never stop.


This question shows that you know very little about evolution by natural selection (EBNS). Genetic mutation is not only a integral part of the gene copying process, but it occurs with highly-predictable frequency. This process of mutation, which is the adding of new genetic material onto the existing genetic material, is why there is such vast variety of life on this planet and why it is always evolving. From Wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

*Mutation*
Further information: Mutation

Duplication of part of a chromosome.
Mutations are changes in the DNA sequence of a cell's genome. When mutations occur, they can either have no effect, alter the product of a gene, or prevent the gene from functioning. Based on studies in the fly _Drosophila melanogaster_, it has been suggested that if a mutation changes a protein produced by a gene, this will probably be harmful, with about 70% of these mutations having damaging effects, and the remainder being either neutral or weakly beneficial.[72]

Mutations can involve large sections of a chromosome becoming duplicated (usually by genetic recombination), which can introduce extra copies of a gene into a genome.[73] Extra copies of genes are a major source of the raw material needed for new genes to evolve.[74] This is important because most new genes evolve within gene families from pre-existing genes that share common ancestors.[75] For example, the human eye uses four genes to make structures that sense light: three for colour vision and one for night vision; all four are descended from a single ancestral gene.[76]

New genes can be generated from an ancestral gene when a duplicate copy mutates and acquires a new function. This process is easier once a gene has been duplicated because it increases the redundancy of the system; one gene in the pair can acquire a new function while the other copy continues to perform its original function.[77][78] Other types of mutations can even generate entirely new genes from previously noncoding DNA.[79][80]

The generation of new genes can also involve small parts of several genes being duplicated, with these fragments then recombining to form new combinations with new functions.[81][82] When new genes are assembled from shuffling pre-existing parts, domains act as modules with simple independent functions, which can be mixed together to produce new combinations with new and complex functions.[83] For example, polyketide synthases are large enzymes that make antibiotics; they contain up to one hundred independent domains that each catalyse one step in the overall process, like a step in an assembly line.[84]


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## New Age United (Nov 5, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> There is a deep truth within every truth? This makes no sense to me. Kindly explain that statement. "'There is a deep blue in every blue". Well, duh. Of course, it's _blue_, after all! Also, there are some truths that are simply intuitive without being counter-intuitive, and some that are counter-intuitive without being intuitive. So, we can see that your statement above that all truths are always both intuitive and counter-intuitive is obviously incorrect...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Words are such tiny things, they are only pointers to a much deeper Truth.

Can you give me an example of a truth which is counter-intuitive but not intuitive?

Very good read but still this does not explain to me how the process of evolution will not one day stop. Did you ever conceive of a perfection that natural selection is trying to attain?


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## New Age United (Nov 5, 2014)

For instance, how do either of you know that the universe will not come to an end completely.


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## Ceepea (Nov 5, 2014)

New Age United said:


> Words are such tiny things, they are only pointers to a much deeper Truth.
> 
> Can you give me an example of a truth which is counter-intuitive but not intuitive?
> 
> Very good read but still this does not explain to me how the process of evolution will not one day stop. Did you ever conceive of a perfection that natural selection is trying to attain?


Natural selection can't attempt anything because it's not sentient. Natural selection favours mutations that increase survivability.... or whatever the driving mechanism of the environment is.

Evolution won'y stop because genetic mutation won't stop. Evolution doesn't always benefit, it can be a detriment too.



New Age United said:


> For instance, how do either of you know that the universe will not come to an end completely.


We don't. No one does. 

Evolution will stop if all life on the planet ceases to exist. But as long as the type of life that we know exists, exists; cells will replicate, and mutations will occur.


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## tyler.durden (Nov 5, 2014)

New Age United said:


> Words are such tiny things, they are only pointers to a much deeper Truth.


This is incorrect. Words (when used rationally) are very distinct and important building blocks of concepts, which are the building blocks of consciousness. We observe that the more distinct and advanced the language other creatures utilize, the closer that species is to consciousness/self-awareness (dolphins and bonobos are prime examples). The primary importance of words is not communication, but conscious thought. Much of our thought process is dominated by using language for self-dialog and to form each concept that we act upon. That is why a well developed vocabulary is so important, it ultimately leads to clearer thinking with a secondary benefit of clearer communication...



> Can you give me an example of a truth which is counter-intuitive but not intuitive?


I'm glad you asked, here is my favorite - The Monty Hall Problem






I had to have the truth of this problem explained to me many times before I finally got it (this video does a very good job imo). Even after I understood it intellectually, to this day it still does not_ feel_ right, i.e. counter-intuitive. This is true with much of probability: if you study physics you will run across hundreds of examples of counter-intuitive truths about our universe. The reason that such things are counter-intuitive is because humans did not evolve in an environment in which they had to deal with such large numbers, or very tiny and very gigantic objects. Our environment is in a proverbial Goldilocks zone, where most of what we need to deal with are of relatively small numbers and medium-sized objects. Thus, most things in those categories are intuitive to us. I actually ran the Monti Hall test 100 times in a row simply to see the results for myself (I did this with my young so who was bored to tears after the first few minutes), and of course the numbers came out just as my intellect knew they would. Still felt strange. That is the fantastic thing about science; it allows us to find the facts of objective reality that we would never intuit. It allow us to go beyond bias, preconceived notions, intuition and just plain bullshit to understand how the cosmos _really_ works...




> Very good read but still this does not explain to me how the process of evolution will not one day stop.


The genetic mutation process of EBNS is vital to life as we know it. The only way to end that process is to end life...



> Did you ever conceive of a perfection that natural selection is trying to attain?


Ceepea addressed this: assuming nature is trying to attain something is a fallacy entitled Begging the Question. Nature is not trying to attain anything. You feel that you are a special creature that's close to nature's Goal, this is a good example of your ego getting in the way of truth


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## Raphael Mechoulam (Nov 6, 2014)

^^ Excellent post, Mr. Durden. Hard to debate material like that!


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## New Age United (Nov 6, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> This is incorrect. Words (when used rationally) are very distinct and important building blocks of concepts, which are the building blocks of consciousness. We observe that the more distinct and advanced the language other creatures utilize, the closer that species is to consciousness/self-awareness (dolphins and bonobos are prime examples). The primary importance of words is not communication, but conscious thought. Much of our thought process is dominated by using language for self-dialog and to form each concept that we act upon. That is why a well developed vocabulary is so important, it ultimately leads to clearer thinking with a secondary benefit of clearer communication...


The truth, but still importance is subjective, just as all concepts are subjective, they don't have an reality out there, outside of your mind, in the objective universe. I will respond to the rest later, still have yet to watch the video, it should be interesting if it's as hard as you say it is I may just give up lol!!!
Do not assume that is my ego, trust me I am a seeker of truth. 
"The point of an argument is not to win the argument it is to seek the truth"
"If you were to lose a gold coin do you think I would not try to help you find it"
Plato


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## New Age United (Nov 6, 2014)

In the meantime let's start an official debate focused on just this topic. 

The universe is infanetly intelligent and nature does intend things. 

Did you ever begin an argument knowing that you are wrong. The truth is most often revealed by falsehood, by recognizing the illusion the reality is unveiled.


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## tyler.durden (Nov 6, 2014)

New Age United said:


> In the meantime let's start an official debate focused on just this topic.
> 
> The universe is infanetly intelligent and nature does intend things.


How can we effectively debate a notion that has absolutely no empirical evidence? It is simply speculation, not a concrete topic for debate. You would have to post links to credible, peer-reviewed sources that support this idea, otherwise it's dead in the water. 'That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence'...



> Did you ever begin an argument knowing that you are wrong.


I haven't done this for a decade or more, it is a waste of time and stifles the learning process. 



> The truth is most often revealed by falsehood, by recognizing the illusion the reality is unveiled.


This thread is a good example of this: it seems that we are getting to the truth regarding objective reality by recognizing your illusions...


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## Ceepea (Nov 6, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> How can we effectively debate a notion that has absolutely no empirical evidence? It is simply speculation, not a concrete topic for debate. You would have to post links to credible, peer-reviewed sources that support this idea, otherwise it's dead in the water. 'That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence'...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great post, TD.

Love the quote regarding evidence. Hitch is the man!


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## thepenofareadywriter (Nov 6, 2014)

New Age United said:


> You may already be Enlightened. Let not the focus be on being enlightened, that can lead to a false perspective of self, ego. Let the focus be 90 the state 90 being which is enlightenment.


*lol...*


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## New Age United (Nov 7, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> This thread is a good example of this: it seems that we are getting to the truth regarding objective reality by recognizing your illusions...


Exactly mister Durden.
The truth can be found be found simply by using logic, that is true philosophy. "If you can not explain it to a child you do not understand it yourself" Einstein


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## New Age United (Nov 7, 2014)

A better way to put it- did you ever conceive of a perfection that natural selection will attain?


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## New Age United (Nov 7, 2014)

Can you stop your mind completely. Stop thinking all together, behold, all illusions disappear and objective reality is revealed. 

See the thing about words, thoughts, is that logic can actually lead to illusion.


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## New Age United (Nov 7, 2014)

Forget all about the truth, stop analyzing, stop judging, be Still, just Be. Once you have stopped thinking, and only once you have stopped thinking, see if you can grasp what I am trying to convey.

Always be Aware of Space

Time is an illusion but the Earth is very Real

All things come and go but the Light remains Eternal

If you understand this you are now in Paradise


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## New Age United (Nov 8, 2014)

"You will receive the kingdom like a child or you will not receive it at all"

Their is no seriousness in Paradise, the goal is for life to become a very light and easy thing.


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## New Age United (Nov 8, 2014)

The Monty Hall Problem, very good example 90 how "if the truth was always intuitive you'd know the answer to everything without any external stimuli ie experience" Yes the video does a great job at explaining it, without it I would be lost. 

But still, and try to "feel the truth", once you understand the problem does it not feel right, does it not make perfect sense ie intuitive.


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## New Age United (Nov 8, 2014)

Let me try to explain. On your way to the truth you are liable to run in to things that do not make sense(counter-intuitive); when you find the truth it should make perfect sense(intuitive)


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## New Age United (Nov 9, 2014)

tyler.durden said:


> How can we effectively debate a notion that has absolutely no empirical evidence? It is simply speculation, not a concrete topic for debate. You would have to post links to credible, peer-reviewed sources that support this idea, otherwise it's dead in the water. 'That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence'...
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't done this for a decade or more, it is a waste of time and stifles the learning process.


Your no fun mister Durden, your just no fun at all.

As you say, that which can be presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, that is where you simply have to trust you Intuition. TRUST YOUR INTUITION





Millions of years ago two massive rocks collided and brought about the perfect balance for life to form, those rocks are our Earth and our Moon. Without the moon the gravity of the Earth would have never allowed the essential salts to form as studies have proven(I don’t have the link but it is out there). When you take into consideration the Vastness of Space, and the fact that two objects of the perfect mass and density collided, it now becomes completely “obvious”, “intuitive”, that nature intended this to happen.





False, the universe is so vast and energy is so Infinite(mathematical definition not the philosophical definition) that this co-incide-ence was bound to happen. You are looking at the world like the universe is a systematical computer, that god is an extreme genius who is calculating and coordinating an infinite number of possibilities at once, but the fact is that an infinite number of possibilities is simple taking place, it is not a systematic computer it is more like a chemical reaction, but rather than chemicals it is a reaction of forces, space-time bending and unbending( it is my personal “belief” that all 4 forces are caused by the bending of space-time and that unaffected forces do not exist). There are indeed an infinite number of possibilities and the perfect balance for life has most likely been achieved numerous times throughout the cosmos. The laws of space-time prevent alien encounters but it is most likely that an intelligent species exists elsewhere, they would have most likely evolved in a similar way to us and would greatly resemble human beings on Earth. That is how vast and infinite the universe is.

The Truth, presented simply by using memory and logic, simply by using your own mind, that is true Philosophy, INTUITION IS A MARVEL.

“The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant, we have created a society that honours the servant and has forgotten the gift” Einstein



OK, what about the opposable thumb, did nature not know that this would allow the species to take a better grip on things? and what about the fact that the testes are in the scrotum outside of the body, did nature not intend to keep the sperm cells cooler? and what about the beauty of nature, did nature not intend to be beautiful, did it not know that a subject, a Witness, would come to behold its beauty? You say that natural selection will choose whatever increases survivability, therefore does it not intend to increase survivability?

Does anyone wish to continue this argument?


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## New Age United (Nov 11, 2014)

From the emerald tablet. "It will penetrate all mysteries and dispel all ignorance"

I love how the tablet, which is believed to be nearly 3000 years old, gives an accurate description of both evolution and the big bang. Trust your Intuition, You are a Genius.


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## New Age United (Nov 11, 2014)

The tree elements of all Wisdom- Logic, Conscience, Intuition


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## New Age United (Nov 11, 2014)

This question was proposed to me on Yahoo Answers 3 years ago.

Do you think the socialist party was the best thing to happen to Germany?

This was my response.

Strictly my opinion and is neither serious nor important.

The socialist party was formed and backed by nations such as Britain and France and possibly the United States, Japan, China and Russia, they did this in accordance with Hitler’s already rising popularity and the fact that he was obsessed with Arian superiority, which was a minority and would create lots of space. They plotted the night of the long knives so that Hitler could take power and enact the plan which would lead Germany and the rest of the world out of the great depression, WW2.

Mass unemployment, of which Germany was the hardest hit. War creates both industry and population reduction. If humanity approaches its boundaries again it is going to create mass unemployment, this is going to lead to a global economic depression, if this happens the leaders of the world super powers are going to devise a plan to plunge humanity into WW3, they will do this because they realize that it is now humanities only hope for survival.

Unfortunately when you open Pandora’s Box it releases all of the evils of mankind, leaving only hope inside, it very well could unleash Armageddon, the guns those armies hold are massive, they could bring a fire that would scorch the entire Earth.


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## New Age United (Nov 11, 2014)

Did you Know? That at the Center of every human being there lies a Fearless Warrior, did you Know You are a Fearless Warrior, did you Know you are IMMORTAL, a commander in the universe. I am the creator of my fate; I am the master of my destiny.

I want you to Know that you are a Fearless Warrior, because if Armageddon is to be faced by humanity you will Witness all of the evils of mankind spewing forth into this world; your Hearts will shatter and your children will cry in terror, if you can not stand the thought how will you ever handle the reality. But let it be Known that You are a Fearless Warrior, and the greater good shall prevail. WW3 may very well be a necessary evil. I’m sorry but that is not my choice. Will humanity receive Enlightenment?


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## New Age United (Nov 11, 2014)

As you said mister Durden, you have a young son, and so without any need of rational thought you Know just how precious and Sacred Life really is.

Let me speak completely out of Conscience. Why do I do this? Why am I trying to teach Enlightenment? Why did Jesus go to the cross? Because he truly Loved the entire world, he taught Enlightenment and was well aware of the fact that it could lead to his crucifixion, but he Truly and Honestly Loved the world, and he Knew that without Enlightenment humanity would ultimately succumb to the evils in their Hearts, and Armageddon would be inevitable; the battle between good and evil most stop, or it will destroy you humanity. Find the objective; there is no such thing as good and evil, now find the Balance; we do not want to have to face the evils of Armageddon and we certainly do not want our loved ones to face it either.

It is estimated that 5% of the human population is psychopathic, what does that mean? It doesn’t necessarily mean that the person wants to hurt others; it means that they are able to defeat their conscience at any given moment(it is my firm belief that the conscience is still there, it is hard to be certain because they have the tendency to be very intelligent and very good at masking their psychopathy, I’m not certain but I would say that about 90% of psychopaths have some insight, ie they are aware that they are a psychopath or at least that they are more fearless and careless). I hate to be so honest but the psychopath actually is a stronger breed of human, they are the wolves and you are the sheep, they are the remnants of a necessary stage in our evolution when humanity had to be able to defeat its fear and able to defeat its conscience as a matter of survival(War). Any person is capable of harnessing psychopathy, and the seed of every evil lies in every Heart, it is only by nourishing those seeds with care and Attention that those seeds grow and conquer the Soul, so yes the both the born psychopath and the budding psychopath is more likely to commit acts of evil, because their conscience is just too easily defeated. If another world war breaks out they will find each other and band together(as they always do in war, their fearlessness becomes evident and that is the easiest way to recognize a psychopath or someone who is in the state of psychopathy). it is also possible for a permanent state of psychopathy to be achieved even in someone who is not a born psychopath, the “budding psychopath”, and war will most certainly cause this effect in many people, so put it all together we have psychopathy spreading around the world, the rape and torture of men, women and children will increase a thousand fold. “woe to those who nurse babes in those days”TNT “They will hurdle the babies from the high walls”The Illiad

I do this out of Conscience, I do this because humanity is very Sacred, I do this because I know that the seeds that I am sowing in the Hearts of the people I reach will one day grow, and the seed of Enlightenment will then be passed from one Heart to another. The Enlightened will literally conquer this world, or it will fall and burn, this time I am afraid that a new world will not rise from the ashes.

Death is nothing to be afraid of, it is the loss of consciousness, it is a deep and peaceful sleep, let us be together in Heaven, right Here, right Now, for all Eternity we are One, you and your loved ones will always art in Heaven, in death you will be united, you are united as One, just open your eyes and Know the Truth.

On this day let us remember our fallen brave, and the ones who came back and made sure to inflict the reality of war as best they could on us all, let us never have to realize what they went through.

“men are haunted by the Vastness of Eternity, will our names live throughout the ages, will people look back and know how bravely we fought, how fiercely we loved” The Illiad


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## New Age United (Nov 11, 2014)

This man contains tremendous power, the likes of which the Earth has never seen

Power beyond power

Born without fear

In all of Eternity he is the Fearless One

He is the tamer of demons

He is literally the beginner, the leader of Armageddon

Believe me it began long long ago, 10,000 years if not more

I am a Warrior

And nothing but a Warrior

A Warrior to the death

Fearless to the core

A Warrior for all humanity


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## New Age United (Nov 11, 2014)

"Surely We have created man from the dust of the ground, We mean to try him" 

Yes that is correct Muhammad, We mean to try him, and if it ends badly then still it was more than worth all of the pain, just to be Alive.


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## New Age United (Nov 14, 2014)

"Intuition is that little voice inside your head that tells you the truth about things whether you like it or not" Dr. Judith Orloff


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## New Age United (Nov 14, 2014)

Intuition is never wrong, only your memory and logic can be wrong, intuition is only as good as the content of your mind ie experience


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## New Age United (Nov 14, 2014)

You must find the Balance between the rational and the intuitive. Intuition without logic is hit or miss; logic without intuition is lost completely.


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## New Age United (Nov 14, 2014)

Plato's explanation of recollection is still the best, you actually recollect that you already knew that, thereby proving his theory. The best way to describe intuition is that it should feel like you are recollecting what you already know, as if you were born with that knowledge.


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## New Age United (Nov 18, 2014)

Intuition is never wrong, a paradox. Is this the truth, is there even a hint of Inference. No this is false. Sometimes what may seem like the truth, what may seem completely obvious, what may make perfect sense, is actually false, but then when we find the truth it always makes perfect sense, usually even better sense, as we learn our Intuition evolves and everything becomes more and more Intuitive, as we piece together the deduction of space time, it becomes undeniably certain of many truths which are both counter-intuitive and intuitive, almost all truths are both. So there, the true paradox of the truth being both counter-intuitive and intuitive explained by simple deductive reasoning with simple intuition as my guide. Did I mention only by Inference that You are an effortless Genius. The truth will come to you with great ease, here is a great counter-intuitive, even though intuition is so frequently wrong you should always trust it, it is both the seeker and the Knower of that which is Truth and that which is false, the rational mind is just serving it's natural purpose, as is the Devine Insight of Intuition, without which logic would never be able to find a definitive answer, the presentation of direct evidence to an observing human conscious can only give birth to Inference by way of Intuition, Intuition is the unexplainable ability to use memory and logic to come up with the correct answer to a practical question, it is literally the key to all intelligence, it is your Intuition that is making sense of these words and understanding their meaning, it is your Intuition that knows the Truth which has just been proven by direct evidence within your mind, if this post is not completely Intuitive to you, if it does not make complete and perfect sense, if you do not understand and Know the Truth that it contains, then you are completely lost in your own logic and the Sacred gift has been forgotten.

You are that Divinity, the Insightful One, you are literally an Immortal Genius, how else can I prove it to you other than with your own rational and intuitive mind, you must find the Balance, SPACE, "You shall adhere more to that which is subtle than that which is coarse, through care and wisdom"


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## New Age United (Nov 19, 2014)

Intuition is never wrong, a paradox. 

The truth is almost always both counter-intuitive and intuitive, a paradox. 

Only one of them is true, and if you are perceptive then you should be able to choose the correct one without any doubt, it should already be proven in the blink of an eye. If you can not tell which is Truth and which is false then you are not trusting your Intuition, trust your Intuition, it already Knows the Truth, you just have to recollect it.

If you can not figure it out read the previous post.


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## Honeycomb Bong.com (Nov 19, 2014)

Hello spiritual warriors. 

Nobody can receive spiritual enlightenment, because everybody is already spiritual enlightened. 
All is just consciousness but we are not aware of this. and most people belief strongly in there fictional identity, like: i'am a stoner, i am daughter/ son, etc. Ones you strip alle the layers of false beliefs away, then that simple truth becomes apparent. People that reached that stage call them self enlightend for lack of a better word. but there can never be such a thing as a enlightened person.

If you want to know more about this subject I recommend to read Jed Mckenna's books.


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## New Age United (Nov 19, 2014)

Honeycomb Bong.com said:


> Hello spiritual warriors.
> 
> Nobody can receive spiritual enlightenment, because everybody is already spiritual enlightened.
> All is just consciousness but we are not aware of this. and most people belief strongly in there fictional identity, like: i'am a stoner, i am daughter/ son, etc. Ones you strip alle the layers of false beliefs away, then that simple truth becomes apparent. People that reached that stage call them self enlightend for lack of a better word. but there can never be such a thing as a enlightened person.
> ...


"The hardest thing for them to understand is that they are already enlightened" Siddhartha

Yes, we were all born enlightened, "You will receive the kingdom like a child or you will not receive it at all". We fell from Grace, we lost ourselves to the darkness, but I am here as a Witness to the Eternal Flame, the Light can be found again and Enlightenment, for lack of a better word, can be attained in this very lifetime.


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## New Age United (Nov 19, 2014)

Intuition tells us that the Earth is flat and that the sun and the cosmos revolves around the Earth, and is therefore wrong, but it is only wrong for lack of evidence, the only observation we begin with is that of an observer on the surface of the Earth, now we Know that the Earth is round and that it is spinning, which explains the false intuitive and actually makes more sense, now the true intuitive has been found and a far more rational understanding has been achieved.


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## New Age United (Nov 19, 2014)

It is your Intuition that recognizes the counter-intuitive and must explain it by deduction, it wants to find an intuitive and rational explanation. It is your Intuition that once evidence has been observed it gives birth to Inference, it says ok, the Earth is a massive sphere relative to an observer on the surface of the Earth, that is why it appears to be flat, it says ok, the Earth is spinning, that is why it appears that everything is revolving around it. Trust your Intuition, it will recognize the false and find the Truth. It already Knows what false and what is Truth.


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## New Age United (Nov 19, 2014)

Intuition is what allows you to trace the cause of any given effect, it's the Devine Insight that magically connects the dots, the book mark, but trust me it is no paperweight, it is what allows you to deduce or infer anything, it is the very basis of all reason.

It is the Knowing faculty of your mind, without which nothing could be understood, find the Knower not the known, find the one who understands and Knows the Truth, that's You, you are the Intuitive Mind (Awareness) not the rational mind (the Thinker), you are the Knower without which nothing could be known, you are an Eternal, Unwavering, Immortal Genius.


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## New Age United (Aug 8, 2017)

Harrekin said:


> Can someone tell me what my "higher self" is made of, ie what base material is it made from?
> 
> Same with the soul, what is it comprised of?


Wow lol, looking back on this I was an ignorant ass. I wish these guys were around so I could thank them for their views and opinions. Just thought I would bump this thread in case there is someone out there who would like to read this thread and possibly find the wisdom and ignore the ego.

The true self is comprised of Space, nothing but empty space, You are literally nothing, no thing, a very unsettling thought to the ego, a very deep truth that can only be realized by You, Awareness, the true self.

Your soul is comprised of energy, just as all things are energy, your thoughts and emotions which are energy.


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## DIY-HP-LED (Oct 5, 2017)

For a dose of reality and enlightenment (been there) Come have a look here. I'm writing a course here and will reorganize on another thread when complete, just got going, so some sections might look a bit rough. Evidence based practice can help you cut to the chase and avoid superstitious bullshit. Here are the basic facts, learn and shorten your path, altered state aren't really that important, even the 4th jhana, while nice and rare too, only really builds mindfulness and connects us more fully to our senses. Floating sensations and other perceived phenomena are just mental garbage, as the brain morphology changes in response to mental exercise. To learn of these things go here:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/mindfulness-meditation-for-medical-users.950536/

Selflessness means putting others before ourselves constantly, if you can do this you are spontaneously happy and will die with out fear. You can do this because you don't have too much of an ego to defend or protect, so not much to worry about, you're no pig deal in the scheme of things. If you are selfish and full of yourself you will die in fear like an animal. Death has no power if you are not afraid to die, because nobody gets out of life alive, and they don't put luggage racks on hearses.

Nirvana mean the snuffing out of existence, not eternal life in heaven, but the end of karma and samsara, the ultimate end of suffering. Rebirth is not seen as a good thing either, but as a failure to attain.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 6, 2017)

DIY-HP-LED said:


> Selflessness means putting others before ourselves constantly, if you can do this you are spontaneously happy and will die with out fear.


If I put others before myself constantly, it doesn't make me happy. It makes me feel like a doormat. It's nice to do something for someone, but it has to be reasonable. 

Selflessness, to me, means putting others before ourselves _within reason_.


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## DIY-HP-LED (Oct 6, 2017)

Padawanbater2 said:


> If I put others before myself constantly, it doesn't make me happy. It makes me feel like a doormat. It's nice to do something for someone, but it has to be reasonable.
> 
> Selflessness, to me, means putting others before ourselves _within reason_.


Just be clear of the reasons, motives and intentions are everything. I don't live like a monk, but modestly, I try to find the middle way, or balance and it is a constant thing with everybody, meditator or not. It's the difference between need and greed. Exercise your brain and you will discern the balance much easier as those parts concerning such things grow and change, as does one perspective. Eight weeks of training tied to work routines, will produce profound changes in most folks, you keep progressing though. Gotta sit for a bit after responding to messages.


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## New Age United (Sep 4, 2019)

Padawanbater2 said:


> If I put others before myself constantly, it doesn't make me happy. It makes me feel like a doormat. It's nice to do something for someone, but it has to be reasonable.
> 
> Selflessness, to me, means putting others before ourselves _within reason_.





Padawanbater2 said:


> If I put others before myself constantly, it doesn't make me happy. It makes me feel like a doormat. It's nice to do something for someone, but it has to be reasonable.
> 
> Selflessness, to me, means putting others before ourselves _within reason_.


Yes indeed Padawan within reason, our own survival is naturally the most pervasive reason.


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## New Age United (Sep 4, 2019)

If anyone is willing to recieve the light I will speak

@cannabineer @curious2garden just thought you two might be interested in reading the beginning of this thread and engaging in debate.


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## beernutz (Sep 16, 2019)

Oh shit

I thought you said enlargement


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## snarfs24.7.365 (Sep 27, 2019)

New Age United said:


> Ok so it's real late where I'm at and I'm about to go to bed, but real serious, does anybody out there want to receive Spiritual Enlightnement, and by this I mean does anyone want to live in complete Peace in Paradise. Now keep in mind that I haven't done any psychadelics in a long time lmfao, I haven't even smoked a j in quite awhile, but I gaurantee you, I can bring you into the promised land lmfao. It might seem like a practical joke but trust me I can do it. So if anyone's interested in this shit let me know.


Interested in letting go of earthly anxieties...


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## New Age United (Sep 27, 2019)

snarfs24.7.365 said:


> Interested in letting go of earthly anxieties...


Ok you can feel free to message me


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## DIY-HP-LED (Sep 27, 2019)

*DYI *will be in this section soon, My purpose the relief and ending of suffering
*If you need help PM a friend, me*
See my thread in the politics section On ethics, Morality, Society....

Those here who know the truth, will know my name.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 5, 2019)

New Age United said:


> If anyone is willing to recieve the light I will speak
> 
> @cannabineer @curious2garden just thought you two might be interested in reading the beginning of this thread and engaging in debate.


Lol. I don't think they have that kind of time to waste. It would certainly be entertaining, though. I see this useless thread is the same as when I left it in 2014. What a stale, masturbatory mess. I'll once again leave you to it...


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## DIY-HP-LED (Oct 6, 2019)

New Age United said:


> Ok you can feel free to message me


*How's the cookies working? Wanna clone?*

Addresses to another post on this thread...
hose here who know the truth, will know my name. 
Check my post history and go to my threads, have a look fur yer self, before passing judgement. |Slow down and have a close look, as you rush ahead jerking off into the future....
Ethics, morality, society.... in politics too. Also look at my post history, last 30 post too. respond, don't react. Your spiritual journey is beginning...


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## New Age United (Oct 6, 2019)

DIY-HP-LED said:


> *How's the cookies working? Wanna clone?*
> 
> Addresses to another post on this thread...
> hose here who know the truth, will know my name.
> ...


I haven't had a chance to cook yet just been smoking the odd joint it's pretty decent. Ya you are free to send a clone my way.


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## New Age United (Jan 3, 2020)

@tyler.durden can you tell me that your objective thinking is actually physical, the truth is not to be found by thought, the truth is out there, beyond your head, that is the only "real" reality. I wanted to say this bc I respect your intellect and want to hear your opinion. It may seem like common sense, but isn't that the truth, common sense, isnt that what we forgot we already knew?


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## New Age United (Jan 3, 2020)

@Heisenberg @tyler.durden have you ever thought 9f the possibility that Mans purpose is to create the next universe? 8s there a name for that theory? I personally believe that black holes are like seeds for new universes, an infinitely dividing and expanding universe, getting smaller but larger all at once, eternity, the only conclusion I have is that both space and time absolutely must be infinite, it just doesn't make sense that there would be a beginning and an end, maybe you know more about space-time than me and can explain???


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## Rob Roy (Jan 10, 2020)

New Age United said:


> I personally believe that black holes are like seeds for new universes,


Yes. Universal recycling. 

On a cosmic scale, a black hole draws in the raw material to impregnate itself, so that it can eventually "birth" another galaxy.

That's why it's known as the "big bang" theory. 

The universe is banging all the time, and the things which get drawn into black holes are "the dicks" of creation. That is the final role of mankind and "our" solar system" (to become proxy dicks) .


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## Aussieaceae (Jan 13, 2020)

I kind of feel like a black hole's density eventually becomes so great, that it explodes.
Maybe that is how the big bang happened, I often wonder also.

Time's an odd one for me. I believe time is effectively light itself and is travelling further ahead, to where it hasn't been. At least time that we perceive.
I'm not personally sure there is such a thing as time, nor necessarily a future, only what happens in a given moment. I believe what happens and has happened, sets the course of events for the future. Whether in the beginning or now, everything has had an effect on the future in some way.
There may be billions upon billions of possibilities or outcomes, but I believe those possibilities are set in stone.

I do believe our universe is ever expanding. I also believe, that every other universe and galaxy is all part of the same space. Though space itself is infinitely large.

Spirituality and enlightenment is meaningless imho.
Whatever it may be, I perceive it as something mechanical, systematic and utterly chaotic at the same time.


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## New Age United (Jan 13, 2020)

Aussieaceae said:


> I kind of feel like a black hole's density eventually becomes so great, that it explodes.
> Maybe that is how the big bang happened, I often wonder also.
> 
> Time's an odd one for me. I believe time is effectively light itself and is travelling further ahead, to where it hasn't been. At least time that we perceive.
> ...


It's not about meaning or anything that can be contemplated it is much bigger than that.


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## beernutz (Jan 13, 2020)

Is it like a big set of great looking tits ?


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## Aussieaceae (Jan 13, 2020)

New Age United said:


> It's not about meaning or anything that can be contemplated it is much bigger than that.


You may have misunderstood what I said, that is exactly what I mean.

I'm definitely philosophical I guess.
Spirituality and Enlightenment are meaningless imvho, non existent, but popular with a lot of people for sure.

Not to take anything away from people practicing, or believing in something. For all anyone knows they could be right after all.


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## wolsinyourarea (Jan 28, 2020)

As long as you call me grasshopper lol


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## rcpilot04401 (Jan 31, 2020)

I'm WAY to high to read that shit...but let me give you a little insight...there is a God...Jesus was only a man...the bible should not be thought of as "text book" because not everything in there is fact. If we all tried to treat one another right, the world would be in a better place.


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## Rick_420 (Feb 16, 2020)

Op have you ever heard of qigong? or practiced it?


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## New Age United (Feb 16, 2020)

Rick_420 said:


> Op have you ever heard of qigong? or practiced it?


Yes I have, I read Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body while in the hospital, I found it very effective for the time that I practiced but I almost had a relapse in psychosis while doing a brain scan so as the author suggested I stopped practicing.


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## Rick_420 (Feb 16, 2020)

If practiced incorrectly can kill you, but with the correct knowledge can begin the path of enlightenment.


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## Rick_420 (Feb 16, 2020)

Through my practice of Qigong and the study of Science, Mathematics, the tablets, the words of the Nazarene, the Nag Hammadi scriptures, and other wise ones. I have come to understand and believe, one will never reach enlightenment or reunion with the source without practicing Qigong and knowledge of the Truth.


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## New Age United (Feb 16, 2020)

Rick_420 said:


> Through my practice of Qigong and the study of Science, Mathematics, the tablets, the words of the Nazarene, the Nag Hammadi scriptures, and other wise ones. I have come to understand and believe, one will never reach enlightenment or reunion with the source without practicing Qigong and knowledge of the Truth.


Enlightenment is not some great important thing, it is not necessary to study scripture or practice qigong, although those things can accelerate Enlightenment, all that is necessary is that you stop thinking, and that you have the ability to stop thinking at will, that is peace, the mind is suffering.


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## Rick_420 (Feb 16, 2020)

Yes the state of no-mind becoming aware of being. I oppose you on the opinion of the importance of enlightenment, I see it to be something humanity desperately needs and should strive for.


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## New Age United (Feb 17, 2020)

Rick_420 said:


> Yes the state of no-mind becoming aware of being. I oppose you on the opinion of the importance of enlightenment, I see it to be something humanity desperately needs and should strive for.


As I have said on this thread even the survival of humanity itself is not important, nothing is important, Enlightenment is not a goal to be achieved in the future, as long as you are striving for it you will never have it.


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## Just Be (Feb 17, 2020)

I always thought that humility went hand in hand with enlightenment.


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## Moldy (Feb 17, 2020)

New Age United said:


> LMAO, ok, bare with me, I am no prophet, and I wouldn't exactly call myself Enlightened, I still have quite the ego lol!!! I am not trying to exalt myself here this is some very practical stuff and it has helped many many people, so that's why I asked. That actually is a good vid heisenburg, ya I don't believe in law of attraction and have absolutely no interest in the age of aquarious and all that crap, I don't identify as anything, all things are fleeting. What I can do is give you a glimpse of Enlightenment, and to anybody who has already begun to Awaken I can accelerate your Enlightenment. Ok it's about to get real deep and spiritual up in here, this is gonna be long so if you're not interested in it then just leave the page, this I know for certain, it is really not important, yes the survival of humanity is dependent on Awakening, but I have very good news, even the survival of humanity itself is not important, death is nothing to be afraid of, it is very peaceful, like sleep.
> 
> Read very slowly and pay very careful "Attention" to what is being said
> 
> ...


Did you have an NDE?


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## New Age United (Feb 17, 2020)

Just Be said:


> I always thought that humility went hand in hand with enlightenment.


Forget all your preconceived notions about Enlightenment, that's not it. Don't pay attention to who I am this is not about me it is about you and who you truly are.


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## Just Be (Feb 17, 2020)

I already know who I truly am but thanks for the suggestion.


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## New Age United (Feb 17, 2020)

Moldy said:


> Did you have an NDE?


I've had a few, but it wasn't until I came very close to suicide till I got my first real feel for Presence, I had to reach rock bottom, so much suffering that my ego collapsed under the pressure. That was 12 years ago and still to this day I am not completely free of ego and pain, but I've come a long long way


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## New Age United (Feb 17, 2020)

Just Be said:


> I already know who I truly am but thanks for the suggestion.


And who are you? If you start with a name you do not know.


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## Just Be (Feb 17, 2020)

I am beyond words.


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## New Age United (Feb 18, 2020)

Just Be said:


> I am beyond words.


Yes you are very real, much bigger and not fleeting like all these little tiny words, they are only pointers to the truth.


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