# How to setup a vertical HPS?



## Tillinah (Jun 14, 2013)

So I feel stupid for asking about this as I've been searching around for a while. The space I have is kind of small, and I want to hang a 150 watt HPS in the center. 

I have found some guides on how to make one from a flood lamp and how to hang them, but the guide seems a little out of date. 

Can someone tell me the easiest way to get a 150 watt HPS with a ballast? I want the ballast to be remote and outside of the box. 
Can I just buy a light like this and reassemble it so I can have the ballast outside? 

If anyone knows the best way I can do this and can be specific please let me know. Thanks!


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## Chronic Masterbator (Jun 14, 2013)

Kinda hard to set up a vert grow with that lamp. Try cfls for very if your space is too small. As soon as I get my new spot vert is the route I'm going . good luck


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## Tillinah (Jun 14, 2013)

Chronic Masterbator said:


> Kinda hard to set up a vert grow with that lamp. Try cfls for very if your space is too small. As soon as I get my new spot vert is the route I'm going . good luck


What is so different from a 150 compared to other sizes?


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## Prawn Connery (Jun 14, 2013)

You need something more like this: http://www.amazon.com/Grow-Light-Reflector-Digital-Ballast/dp/B009HVVLOM/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1371267235&sr=8-13&keywords=150+watt+hps

Just unscrew the light socket from the hood and you're good to go. What are the dimensions of your space? If you have enough room, a 250w hps would be much better than a 150w bulb.


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## 1itsme (Jun 14, 2013)

Tillinah said:


> What is so different from a 150 compared to other sizes?


the ballast is attatched to the hood. there was a thread about how to convert wh hid lights to remote ballasts a couple years ago i'll see if i can find it. pc's way is alot easier tho.


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## Ilovebush (Jun 14, 2013)

You can do it many ways...I like the vertical cool tube setup if its a tight space. Cool the hood with extractor fans venting out the top and in through the bottom and then you can add an in line centrifugal fan with a scrubber for the aroma.


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## Tillinah (Jun 15, 2013)

Ya I'm basically just trying to figure out how to setup the bulb in the first place. I like Prawn Connery's idea I just feel like that is a little overpriced? Maybe not though, I don't know enough about them. I'm trying to find the easiest, and somewhat cheapest way to setup a vertical HPS in a compact area.


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## Prawn Connery (Jun 15, 2013)

You need at least four plants to really take advantage of growing around a vertical bulb - one on each side - and 150w just doesn't have the light penetration. It can be done, but the results are likely to disappoint. A 250w HPS with a remote ballast doesn't emit that much more heat and can be used on a footprint as small as 2' x 2'. I've grown decent buds with a 250 (many years ago). You will need to ventilate it, though.

As for the expense, it will pay for itself first harvest.


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## Tillinah (Jun 15, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> You need at least four plants to really take advantage of growing around a vertical bulb - one on each side - and 150w just doesn't have the light penetration. It can be done, but the results are likely to disappoint. A 250w HPS with a remote ballast doesn't emit that much more heat and can be used on a footprint as small as 2' x 2'. I've grown decent buds with a 250 (many years ago). You will need to ventilate it, though.
> 
> As for the expense, it will pay for itself first harvest.


Ya I figured 250 would be better, I was kind of just using that one as an example. What is the best way I can start setting it up? Can I technically get all the parts from homedepot or lowes and build it or would just be easier to take apart a grow light?


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## Prawn Connery (Jun 15, 2013)

I'm not in America, so I'm not sure what's available to you. But I just went to my local hydro store and bought a ballast, chord/plug and lamp - and that was it. It might be cheaper to buy a kit like the one above and remove the reflector, or you might find the ballast, chord/plug and bulb cheaper.


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## 1itsme (Jun 17, 2013)

hd doesnt have the stuff in store. online, hydro store, or craigslist crap shoot.


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## Prawn Connery (Jun 17, 2013)

Yeah, 250s are pretty cheap anyway. Get yourself a HPS ballast or a HPS/MH combined ballast and you can run a metal halide bulb (or retro MH bulb with the HPS-only ballast) during veg and a HPS bulb during flowering. 250 watts is the minimum I'd run with a vertical grow. 400w gives pretty good results in a small set-up, while 600w is ideal. Once you start going any bigger, you're better off running two bulbs hanging in line; either 2 x 400w or 2 x 600w (which I do). 1000 watters create a lot of heat from a single source, so it's better to split the heat/light up into two 600s, one 600w and one 400w, or two 400s.


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## Tillinah (Jun 17, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Yeah, 250s are pretty cheap anyway. Get yourself a HPS ballast or a HPS/MH combined ballast and you can run a metal halide bulb (or retro MH bulb with the HPS-only ballast) during veg and a HPS bulb during flowering. 250 watts is the minimum I'd run with a vertical grow. 400w gives pretty good results in a small set-up, while 600w is ideal. Once you start going any bigger, you're better off running two bulbs hanging in line; either 2 x 400w or 2 x 600w (which I do). 1000 watters create a lot of heat from a single source, so it's better to split the heat/light up into two 600s, one 600w and one 400w, or two 400s.



My space is pretty small, I'm basically just upgrading from a PC thats vegging the plants to a cabinet that will take over when it's finished. 

How much hotter do the 400 run from 250? I only plan on having 2 plants since this cabinet is not very big.


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## Prawn Connery (Jun 17, 2013)

A 400 is a fair bit hotter than a 250 when comparing the two, but it mostly comes down to ventilation and how warm your environment is. How big is your cabinet? I have a friend who grows in a 2' x 2' x 2.5' cabinet using a 400 hps, but he has a good fan and lots of ventilation. Even then, he has trouble growing in summer due to the heat. But it can be done. My own opinion is a 250 is more suited to that sized chamber for year-round growing, but a 400 will produce almost twice as much as a 250 and is better suited to vertical growing.

With two plants, you may be better off running a horizontal light first and then switching to a vertical setup when you have a few more plants to put around the bulb. Like I said, small vertical grows do better with about four plants - one in each corner around the bulb.

What are the dimensions of your cabinet? That's probably the best place to start.


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## Tillinah (Jun 17, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> A 400 is a fair bit hotter than a 250 when comparing the two, but it mostly comes down to ventilation and how warm your environment is. How big is your cabinet? I have a friend who grows in a 2' x 2' x 2.5' cabinet using a 400 hps, but he has a good fan and lots of ventilation. Even then, he has trouble growing in summer due to the heat. But it can be done. My own opinion is a 250 is more suited to that sized chamber for year-round growing, but a 400 will produce almost twice as much as a 250 and is better suited to vertical growing.
> 
> With two plants, you may be better off running a horizontal light first and then switching to a vertical setup when you have a few more plants to put around the bulb. Like I said, small vertical grows do better with about four plants - one in each corner around the bulb.
> 
> What are the dimensions of your cabinet? That's probably the best place to start.


Right now it's 2ft wide, 28in high (can be 4ft if I add the second cab under it), and 1ft depth. Look in my sig thread if you want to see some pictures of it.


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## Prawn Connery (Jun 17, 2013)

Yeah, that's pretty small. Just had a look at your thread and I'm still thinking you might be better off with a horizontal lamp, as there's very little footprint to drop a vertical light down the middle and still leave enough room either side to grow.

I see you're also growing in soil, so will need room for pots. With that cabinet you could get a nice rectangular shaped soil pot to fit the bottom, put both plants in side-by-side to maximise your rootzone, and then use your cool tube reflector idea to keep the whole cabinet . . . er, cool. Or put the two cabinets together, remove the floor/roof so it becomes one cabinet with 4" of head height, and then you could get away without a cool tube as long as you have good ventilation.

Either way, I'd say a 250hps is the biggest lamp you should contemplate - but I would certainly choose that over the 150. One of my very first indoor grows was in a cabinet of similar dimensions with a 250w hps and soil. Prior to this I had tried about 200w of CFLs in the same space and the 250hps blew those grows away. I didn't have a cool tube, but I had a bit more head height (about 32"). The whole cabinet measured 2.7' x 1.5' x 2.7' with passive induction and an exhaust fan. That was many, many years ago but it was a great introduction to indoor growing!


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## Tillinah (Jun 17, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Yeah, that's pretty small. Just had a look at your thread and I'm still thinking you might be better off with a horizontal lamp, as there's very little footprint to drop a vertical light down the middle and still leave enough room either side to grow.
> 
> I see you're also growing in soil, so will need room for pots. With that cabinet you could get a nice rectangular shaped soil pot to fit the bottom, put both plants in side-by-side to maximise your rootzone, and then use your cool tube reflector idea to keep the whole cabinet . . . er, cool. Or put the two cabinets together, remove the floor/roof so it becomes one cabinet with 4" of head height, and then you could get away without a cool tube as long as you have good ventilation.
> 
> Either way, I'd say a 250hps is the biggest lamp you should contemplate - but I would certainly choose that over the 150. One of my very first indoor grows was in a cabinet of similar dimensions with a 250w hps and soil. Prior to this I had tried about 200w of CFLs in the same space and the 250hps blew those grows away. I didn't have a cool tube, but I had a bit more head height (about 32"). The whole cabinet measured 2.7' x 1.5' x 2.7' with passive induction and an exhaust fan. That was many, many years ago but it was a great introduction to indoor growing!


Thanks a lot for the help, I'll probably try and set it up a few different ways and see what ends up working best. 

How much did you yield with the hps in your space with how many plants?


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## BIZARRE (Jun 17, 2013)

go bare bulb


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## Tillinah (Jun 18, 2013)

BIZARRE said:


> go bare bulb


I think that is what I plan on doing with a decent size fan in the middle blowing air up and out of the exhaust.


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## Prawn Connery (Jun 18, 2013)

BIZARRE said:


> go bare bulb


Have you seen his footprint? It's 2' x 1'. If you can drop a bare bulb in-between two plants - with a floor fan in the middle - and still leave enough room to grow either side, then good luck!

Tillinah, don't let me put you off - try a vertical bulb if you wish - but you will likely find that the bulb will need to be hung high to give yourself enough room to grow, which will defeat the purpose of growing vertically. With vertical growing, you really need the bulb to be hung about two-thirds the way up the plant to take advantage of the 360-degrees of light. Hanging a bare bulb above the plant is actually less efficient than a horizontal bulb with a reflector.

Heat will also be an issue, so a horizontal cool tube reflector (you know the type - they're a cool tube with reflective material on one side) will help with heat while also giving you lots of light.

As for my yields growing with a horizontal 250, it's so long ago (15 years) that I can't recall. I usually had six small plants growing 3x2 and my yields probably would have been around five-six ounces. These days I grow with 1200w of vertical light and consistently yield 3-3.5lb. Check my signature and you'll see my set-up.


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## Tillinah (Jun 18, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Have you seen his footprint? It's 2' x 1'. If you can drop a bare bulb in-between two plants - with a floor fan in the middle - and still leave enough room to grow either side, then good luck!
> 
> Tillinah, don't let me put you off - try a vertical bulb if you wish - but you will likely find that the bulb will need to be hung high to give yourself enough room to grow, which will defeat the purpose of growing vertically. With vertical growing, you really need the bulb to be hung about two-thirds the way up the plant to take advantage of the 360-degrees of light. Hanging a bare bulb above the plant is actually less efficient than a horizontal bulb with a reflector.
> 
> ...


5-6oz per plant or total? I checked out your current setup pulling pounds, it's pretty awesome! Is it all for personal use? I wish I had the space where I could do that. For this grow I may end up going the horizontal route until I get a bigger spot to grow in. I'll probably go with one of the hps + cooltube kits that don't have the ballast built in so I can always swap to vertical later.


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## Prawn Connery (Jun 19, 2013)

LOL! No, total. Anyone who can pull 30-36oz from a 250w is God!

Yes, get a remote ballast, as this will keep the heat down in the grow chamber. With a HPS ballast, you can also run a metal halide retro bulb during veg and HPS during flower. Some ballasts allow you to switch between the two (MH/HPS), so are handy.

Alternatively, see if you can get a 250w ceramic metal halide with matching HPS ballast, as this will offer the best of both worlds (good mix of red and blue spectrums for alround growing).

And do I grow for personal? Sure do. Obviously I have a bit left over - which only goes to my circle of friends - but I primarily grow for myself. That means I'm not growing for yield, but variety. If I monocropped for yield, I'd get a bit more. But usually I have four or five different strains going at any one time. I also do lots of different seed runs for clone mothers, which don't always yield well.

Once you get right into growing, you'll find variety is the spice of life!


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## Tillinah (Jun 19, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> LOL! No, total. Anyone who can pull 30-36oz from a 250w is God!
> 
> Yes, get a remote ballast, as this will keep the heat down in the grow chamber. With a HPS ballast, you can also run a metal halide retro bulb during veg and HPS during flower. Some ballasts allow you to switch between the two (MH/HPS), so are handy.
> 
> ...


Your friends must love coming to visit you haha! 
I've done a little research on the CMH bulb but not enough, is it basically a mix of the red and blue spectrum so you can run it during the whole grow or is it just for flowering? Also I thought I read something that they don't work with every electronic ballast?


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## Canon (Jun 20, 2013)

Tillinah said:


> Right now it's* 2ft wide, 28in* high (can be 4ft if I add the second cab under it), and *1ft depth*. Look in my sig thread if you want to see some pictures of it.


Quite honestly,,, you'd do better with vertical CFLs in there. Drop a 50 ish watter down the middle and surround with 4 droppers in the 25 watt range. You'll be smiling and cool!


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## Prawn Connery (Jun 21, 2013)

HID lights are actually more efficient than CFLs. Would you believe CFLs produce more heat per watt than HPS or MH lights? It's true. The heat is spread more evenly along the CFL element than it is in a metal halide (which has a smaller element in comparison), but the total heat is more, and will actually create more heat in your grow chamber.

In addition, CFLs have built-in ballasts which also create heat - HID lights can run on external ballasts that keep some of the heat outside the chamber.

The OP's original vertical 150w HPS idea would be a better compromise than a vertical CFL, in my opinion.

Trust me, a long time ago I grew with about 200w of CFLs before switching to a 250HPS and the difference in yield was phenomenal. The difference in heat wasn't.


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## Prawn Connery (Jun 21, 2013)

Tillinah said:


> Your friends must love coming to visit you haha!
> I've done a little research on the CMH bulb but not enough, is it basically a mix of the red and blue spectrum so you can run it during the whole grow or is it just for flowering? Also I thought I read something that they don't work with every electronic ballast?


Yes, everyone loves coming to my place. I make great coffee, too 

I don't run CMH bulbs (they don't make them bigger than 400w at the moment), so I'm not talking from experience. But from what I've researched, most will run on a HPS ballast (you will need to double check before purchasing, obviously) and can be beneficial for both vegging and flowering, as they produce a wider spectrum of PAR (photosynthetically active radiation - light is radiation) which the plant can use.

The old style of thinking was MH in veg - when the plant needs more blue/green spectrum - and HPS in flower - when it needs more red/orange. Think about nature: in late spring/summer the sun is higher and the sky is bluer. In late autumn/winter, the sun is lower and sky is redder. That's how most flowering plants have evolved.

But plants still need all the colours of the rainbow to grow efficiently - just in different ratios at different times.

And that's why growers started adding metal halide lights to their HPS grows at a usual ratio of 2HPS to 1MH to add more blue/green spectrum. Ceramic metal halide bulbs are supposedly the best of both worlds.

I say "supposedly" because I only form concrete opinions when I try something myself! So I would love to hear from those who are doing it themselves and hear their opinions. But again, from what I've read, they do seem to be more beneficial during flowering. Certainly I have not read many reports of people being disappointed with them. I would try CMH bulbs in a heartbeat if they made them in 600w.


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## DownUnderDoper (Jun 23, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Yes, everyone loves coming to my place. I make great coffee too


As I recall the same principle applies to both. ... Start with good beans


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## Prawn Connery (Jun 24, 2013)

For real. You make a pretty good coffee yourself. 

^ DUD is the guy I was talking about earlier in this thread who grows in a small cabinet using a vertical 400w HPS.

Hope I got the dimensions of your cabinet right, mate. If there's any other advice you can offer these guys, now's ya chance! (When you have time, that is.)


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## DownUnderDoper (Jun 24, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Yes, everyone loves coming to my place. I make great coffee, too
> 
> I don't run CMH bulbs (they don't make them bigger than 400w at the moment), so I'm not talking from experience. But from what I've researched, most will run on a HPS ballast (you will need to double check before purchasing, obviously) and can be beneficial for both vegging and flowering, as they produce a wider spectrum of PAR (photosynthetically active radiation - light is radiation) which the plant can use.
> 
> ...





Prawn Connery said:


> For real. You make a pretty good coffee yourself.
> 
> ^ DUD is the guy I was talking about earlier in this thread who grows in a small cabinet using a vertical 400w HPS.
> 
> Hope I got the dimensions of your cabinet right, mate. If there's any other advice you can offer these guys, now's ya chance! (When you have time, that is.)


Close, 3w x 3h x 2d. The only thing I'd add is even with mass ventilation you can still only let the plants get about 6 or 8 inches from the 400w globe Or it just bleaches all fuck out of what should be your best buds.


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## Tillinah (Jun 24, 2013)

DownUnderDoper said:


> Close, 3w x 3h x 2d. The only thing I'd add is even with mass ventilation you can still only let the plants get about 6 or 8 inches from the 400w globe Or it just bleaches all fuck out of what should be your best buds.


Nice! Do you have any pictures or a thread up on your setup? You haven't considered using CMH?


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## DownUnderDoper (Jun 25, 2013)

I must revise those measurements, my metric conversion is off a bit. Should be 4' x 4' x 2' (1.2m x 1.2m x .6m)
I can probably put up a couple of pics of the cabinet in here if you like, it's tragically empty at the moment. I'll start a grow thread once I'm up and running again. 

I haven't really given much thought to CMH, I usually veg to about 40 - 50cm under flouros in a separate cabinet, fairly weak lights to induce a bit of stretch, then into the flower box. I'm not sure if I would benefit greatly from the extra light spectrum CMH gives, but I guess it couldn't hurt.


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## iFreeSki420 (Jun 26, 2013)

Where can I get a socket to screw my 1000w HPS bulbs in without getting a whole hood? Does one come with the ballast?


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## Tillinah (Jun 27, 2013)

iFreeSki420 said:


> Where can I get a socket to screw my 1000w HPS bulbs in without getting a whole hood? Does one come with the ballast?


I still haven't bought one but I think these would work? http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=hps socket&sprefix=hps+so,aps&rh=i:aps,k:hps socket


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## Tillinah (Jun 27, 2013)

DownUnderDoper said:


> I must revise those measurements, my metric conversion is off a bit. Should be 4' x 4' x 2' (1.2m x 1.2m x .6m)
> I can probably put up a couple of pics of the cabinet in here if you like, it's tragically empty at the moment. I'll start a grow thread once I'm up and running again.
> 
> I haven't really given much thought to CMH, I usually veg to about 40 - 50cm under flouros in a separate cabinet, fairly weak lights to induce a bit of stretch, then into the flower box. I'm not sure if I would benefit greatly from the extra light spectrum CMH gives, but I guess it couldn't hurt.


Ya I'd love to see some pics.


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## Prawn Connery (Jun 27, 2013)

Ask your local hydro shop or light store. Anywhere that sells HID lamps and ballasts should also sell separate sockets and chords that plug into the ballast.


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## Tillinah (Jul 20, 2013)

Someone want to take a look at the vert I have setup right now? A few questions in my last post. I ended up getting the 250 watt with cooltube and electronic ballast. Already had to go get a new ballast but all is working now.

https://www.rollitup.org/stealth-micro-cab-growing/665519-finished-building-pc-grow-box-3.html


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## Purpsdro420 (Jul 20, 2013)

If you didn't already purchase a light I would buy this setup

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005HKS7GM/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?qid=1374355502&sr=8-5&pi=SL75


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## Tillinah (Jul 20, 2013)

Purpsdro420 said:


> If you didn't already purchase a light I would buy this setup
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005HKS7GM/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?qid=1374355502&sr=8-5&pi=SL75


That's exactly what I got except cheaper, http://www.ebay.com/itm/iPower-250w-250-watt-HPS-MH-Grow-Light-System-Set-Kit-cheaper-than-400w-400-watt-/160660676488?var=&hash=item25681f5f88. Here is the setup I've got going.


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