# Help me devise a 12 plant perpetual vert grow



## merdamerda (Apr 11, 2014)

I have a 12 plant limit here and was looking to plan out a perpetual grow with a harvest every month. 4 in veg 8 in flower with 2 cycles in flower about a month apart. Im looking to pull 2 lbs per cycle with 1000 watts using 4 plants. Is that possible with vertical? There is roughly 2 months of veg maybe a little more. I've looked into vertical scrog and it looks like thats the best route since stadiums and coliseum style vert don't go good with only 4 plants.


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## killemsoftly (Apr 13, 2014)

you could grow 2 trees per light. Lotsa people having success doing trees, just hang a light vertically (by a chain, not its cord) and boom, with the right varietal, you have tree.


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## ttystikk (Apr 13, 2014)

merdamerda said:


> I have a 12 plant limit here and was looking to plan out a perpetual grow with a harvest every month. 4 in veg 8 in flower with 2 cycles in flower about a month apart. Im looking to pull 2 lbs per cycle with 1000 watts using 4 plants. Is that possible with vertical? There is roughly 2 months of veg maybe a little more. I've looked into vertical scrog and it looks like thats the best route since stadiums and coliseum style vert don't go good with only 4 plants.


Been there, built that. If you want to grow four plants around one thouie, build a silo like my 4x4; use 4' tall mesh fencing (I suggest Home dePot for their 2"x4" mesh, in 4'x50' rolls are $35 ea.) and then use enough to make a silo between 4 and 5 feet in diameter, or 12.5'-16' feet in total circumference. From personal experience, I think four plants will fill this space more easily than two will.

One silo in grow room A and another in room B, both in bloom, one a month ahead of the other in its cycle, four plants in veg to fill the next silo coming open Aaaaaaaand voilá! With time and dialing in, you could reasonably expect FOUR pounds per crop around either one thouie- or here's an insider's recommendation; two Gavita Proline 600W bulbs. Those would kick serious ass in there, you'd want the larger diameter silo.


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## Nuikala (Apr 25, 2014)

.......and now i think i have to do a vertical grow....i have a 4x4x7, and a 4x3x7 grow space......i still have yet to get a pound per crop under my 600hps/ t-8 setup.


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## redzi (May 15, 2014)

If some breeder told me he has a strain that yields 1/2 pound off 600w and a few T8s I would say he is lying or doing it outside with a little help from this thing called a sun.


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## ttystikk (May 16, 2014)

redzi said:


> If some breeder told me he has a strain that yields 1/2 pound off 600w and a few T8s I would say he is lying or doing it outside with a little help from this thing called a sun.


And I'd think he's sandbagging, because I've watched people pull well over a pound a run from 600W setups, no problem, over and over.


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## BenFranklin (May 16, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> And I'd think he's sandbagging, because I've watched people pull well over a pound a run from 600W setups, no problem, over and over.



VERY dependent on strain......


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## weed nerd113 (May 16, 2014)

that is similar to my set up. 12 plants 3 harvested every 3 weeks with a 45 day veg.4 x8 flower tent with 3 6000w hps. it is possible depending on strain and co2 enrichment but i say you will be close to that but it is all strain specific. one of my strains no way but one of my money makers sure.


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## ttystikk (May 17, 2014)

BenFranklin said:


> VERY dependent on strain......


Not really, as long as you're willing to wait until the strain you've chosen has filled in the canopy area under the bulb well enough.

Honestly, unless you're running an autoflower strain, you should have no trouble vegging your cannabis plant to be as big as you desire, no matter what strain it is. That certainly includes getting it big and well shaped enough to do well under a little 600.


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## BenFranklin (May 17, 2014)

I disagree and will leave it at that.


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## ttystikk (May 18, 2014)

BenFranklin said:


> I disagree and will leave it at that.


I respect your opinion, but I'm here to tell you from personal experience that the only strain I can't get to grow SIX FEET TALL is an autoflower. That's not heresay; I've done it. More than once. Name your classic short season indica dominant strain and it's probably had a turn...


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## BenFranklin (May 18, 2014)

You can grow it 6 feet tall, but if the genetics are not there to pull a pound on a 600 watt light, it won't, PERIOD. You can respectfully disagree, you can claim vast experience, but, science doesn't budge.


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## Red1966 (May 18, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> I respect your opinion, but I'm here to tell you from personal experience that the only strain I can't get to grow SIX FEET TALL is an autoflower. That's not heresay; I've done it. More than once. Name your classic short season indica dominant strain and it's probably had a turn...


Can you do it with one month in veg and two in flower?


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## ttystikk (May 18, 2014)

Red1966 said:


> Can you do it with one month in veg and two in flower?


No. It takes rooted clones two months to be bloom ready.


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## Red1966 (May 18, 2014)

Well, I hear of people going straight to 12/12 with no veg, so it can be done. This guy is trying to get 1 harvest every month with a 3 month total growing time for each, with never more than 12 plants. It can be done, but he's going to get small harvests. Certainly no 6 ft. tall plants. I wonder if they count cuttings as "plants". They do here, for prosecutorial purposes.


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## hydrolyzed (May 29, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> No. It takes rooted clones two months to be bloom ready.


I guess all the people who flower rooted clones are doing it all wrong, and yielding nothing every harvest, and just keep doing it for the lulz?


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## ttystikk (May 29, 2014)

hydrolyzed said:


> I guess all the people who flower rooted clones are doing it all wrong, and yielding nothing every harvest, and just keep doing it for the lulz?


The question was asked specifically about my own approach and that's the vein in which I answered it. That's how long I do it for my method- which is meant to fill in a six foot tall by four foot wide trellis with one plant. That won't happen overnight, for lulz or any other reason.

At the other extreme, I know people who espouse a 12/12 cycle from seed, so it's pretty much undeniable the plants can tolerate a lot and still thrive. You do what works for you, I'm not here to tell you different.


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## ttystikk (May 29, 2014)

Having a reread of the thread, I can see the confusion; I was answering the question about how to harvest a respectable crop monthly and stay under twelve. I was not limiting myself to the assumed timeline of one month veg, two months flower, rather, I was suggesting that he use fewer plants and veg them longer than that. Vegging longer means they get bigger and bigger means more yield at the end of bloom, provided you account for their size and growth in your grow room design.

What's wrong with growing such that you pull only one or two trees a month, anyway? If you're getting several pounds per plant, that should last you, pay your bills, provide for hash, etc etc. I'm just thinking out of the box a bit... you know, instead of square, I'm thinking cylindrically...


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## BenFranklin (May 30, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> No. It takes rooted clones two months to be bloom ready.



That's just wrong.... I root my clones in 7 - 10days and in 2 weeks they can go into budding, for a total of 14 days.

This method is also used in sea of green in which you take a single plant, remove as many clones as you can, put them in to rooting for 7 - 10 days, and immediately start budding when they start showing roots, you end up with a massive amount of little 1/4 to 1/2 ounce kolas.

In fact from seed to finish on this same strain is 90 days. I don't bud until I see hair, within 4 weeks of sprouting.

And as for pounds per plant on an indoor grow??? BULLSHIT! (When you eliminate all other factors such as growing environment, nutrients, etc etc, the determinate factor for harvest weight is GENETIC. If the genetic is not there for a plant to produce POUNDS, it won't, PERIOD, you can piss on it with your golden magical super thrive grow juice, and it won't up it's production unless that genetic is there. You're just pissing in the wind.)

Apparently you have a difficult time understanding that a 6 foot tall plant, may or may not produce a pound.... You seem to have this fantasy that if a plant grows 6 foot tall then it MUST produce POUNDS.. It's just simply NOT true. The genetic to produce a pound must be PRESENT!

In fact, after reading through more of your posts, welcome to my ignore list, you're so full of shit that it's amazing that no one has called you on it yet.


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## MrMeanGreen (May 30, 2014)

BenFranklin said:


> That's just wrong.... I root my clones in 7 - 10days and in 2 weeks they can go into budding, for a total of 14 days.
> 
> This method is also used in sea of green in which you take a single plant, remove as many clones as you can, put them in to rooting for 7 - 10 days, and immediately start budding when they start showing roots, you end up with a massive amount of little 1/4 to 1/2 ounce kolas.
> 
> ...


When you take away environmental issues and grow style, your yield is directly proportionate to light quality, root mass and active green matter (Leaf gettin good light). The more you veg, the more root and leaf matter is produced, it is as simple as that. I just pulled 9oz each of 2 plants veg for 1 month and i made a few errors along the way. What will a plant vegged for 2 months produce, assuming roots and leaf have developed accordingly.


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## ttystikk (May 30, 2014)

I love it when people call me stupid. Usually that means they'll be stealing my ideas in six months- and trying to take the credit for it.


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## ttystikk (May 30, 2014)

MrMeanGreen said:


> When you take away environmental issues and grow style, your yield is directly proportionate to light quality, root mass and active green matter (Leaf gettin good light). The more you veg, the more root and leaf matter is produced, it is as simple as that. I just pulled 9oz each of 2 plants veg for 1 month and i made a few errors along the way. What will a plant vegged for 2 months produce, assuming roots and leaf have developed accordingly.


Exactly.


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## BenFranklin (May 30, 2014)

Ohh, ok, then I will just throw away the past 30 years of experience, along with all the other peoples experience like Greg Green, Ed Rosenthal, Jorge Cervantes, and many other SCIENTISTS who grow other things like vegetables and fruit, that all have claimed and proven scientifically, that GENETICS ARE THE MAIN DETERMINING FACTOR IN PRODUCTION AND HARVEST! 

You folks can sit here and argue that it's all your magic growing abilities and amenities all you want, You can have the best grow room in the world, if the strain is genetically inferior, it will produce INFERIOR RESULTS. This isn't bullshit, this is SCIENCE.

You can continually make claims that your plants pulled off 9 ounces, well thats good, I am glad to know that your plants have the genetics to do this, without those genetics, your plant would be HEMP!..


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## TryN (May 30, 2014)

BenFranklin said:


> ... This isn't bullshit, this is SCIENCE. ...


When I read "... this is SCIENCE." All I heard in my head was Thomas Dolby ...


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## BenFranklin (May 30, 2014)

This will be easy..... Genetically, which plants are the best to grow indoors user lights in a short ceiling environment, Sativa, or Indica?

Knowing this, what plants would you rather grow indoors? INDICA or HEMP?

GENETICALLY YOU'D HOPEFULLY PICK INDICA!

Not all plants produce pounds of buds, if they are genetically able to do this, they will, if not, they won't.

If your genetics call for you to have a tail, you're getting a tail.

In fact in the Hemp market, you don't want plants with massive buds, instead, you want a plant that genetically produces long straight branches and very little resin or buds, so that post harvest production and rendering will be made much easier on both the handler and the equipment. It also makes a superior stem product because the genetics were picked to make heavy strong LONG stems, rather than short fat juicy buds.


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## MrMeanGreen (May 30, 2014)

Listen grumpy arse, you have backed yourself into a corner and trying to dig yourself out. Of course you can't put a square peg in a round hole and u can't polish a turd ( actually you can polish a turd) but botanical science says exactly what I said earlier, bigger plants = more fruit. You proved that point yourself with SOG. Chill and lick a zoot.


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## BenFranklin (May 30, 2014)

Uh, what????

There is nothing to defend, there is nothing to back into a corner, you can continue to be ignorant and argue against SCIENCE FACT all you want.

And calling bullshit on "pounds of weed per plant" is not being grumpy, it's calling BULLSHIT. I am sorry that your perception of your own reality leads you to believe that I am "grumpy" or "angered" by your ignorance, maybe you should get that checked out.

It's part of the problem these days, is people with ignorance having access to a keyboard.

(P.S. I'd have to take you seriously to be angered by you, I stopped taking both of you seriously, from the first post. Your 9 ounces although an average harvest, is nothing to write home about. Even a lb is not unheard of, 3 lbs wet, dries 2/3rds, but, making claims of POUNDS per plant and claiming that genetics are not the determining factor, is really, REALLY funny, it's LAUGHABLE, do you understand??) LOL!

Do you also understand that BOTANICAL SCIENCE(whatever the fuck that is) also says that the GENETICS FOR MAKING BIGGER PLANTS MUST BE PRESENT? IF the GENETICS FOR BIGGER PLANTS IS NOT PRESENT, they will NOT make BIGGER BUDS, regardless of how much of Santa's magic dust you use.

(Apparently this won't be easy)... LOL!


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## purplehays1 (Jun 5, 2014)

watts r weight in my experience, you should be getting a minimum of a 1/3 lb per month in your cycle, so 2/3 to 1 lb per light per 2 months. Assuming u have genetics that can be done in 2 months.

And SOG relies not on big plants, actually it relys on SMALL single cola plants and is only a viable option if you can have a SHITLOAD of plants in a small area, which not everyone can.

Also 1 lb/plant is not impossible, it is common!!!! But this is not done with a 2 month turn around.


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## BuzzD2Kill (Jun 21, 2014)

Of course genetics have a lot to do with yield, and quality. That being said some can up yields a little with skillz etc, anyone willing to veg and train a plant that long deserves that extra bit of nugg. Dont hate the guys just accept it, bigger yields more time, smaller yields less time, usually, so no one is right, we all get nugg. Lets smoke and share smilez.


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## ttystikk (Jul 6, 2014)

This isn't bullshit 'I read it somewhere' or hearsay, so listen up; I've grown everything from pre '98 Bubba Kush to Bubble Gum- and dozens of different hybrid and sativas- and I am here to tell you that unless it's an autoflower, I can make it yield well over an elbow. And chances are good that I already have with something similar.

Any blowhard who wants to dispute that with me is basically telling me that all my friends are blind, stupid and can't use a scale.


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## Flagg420 (Jul 10, 2014)

IMO: If you wanna go vert (for the space saving purpose) and are sure you can keep the temps down, the best setup I've seen so far for your needs is to drop a bulb (or 2 when funds allow, stacked) Then surround your "light column" with a small wire fence (this ones for your safety really) Put each plant from seedling/clones straight to the flowering pot, then after a week or 2 of vegging n training, cage it with the same fencing (that nice green coated wire fencing from lowes) with each plant having an independent cage you surround the "light column" with plants, and... (worst part) rotate rotate rotate rotate...... if you cant automate this (cuz it wont be cheap or super simple, but can be done) this will make you insane... like every 1-2hrs while its on, turn them all..... Oh, if ya got spare floro's, stand them vertically opposite the main lights so the plants get surrounded by light...

Why go thru all this nonsense? (aside from the reasons of vert grow to begin with)

With a 12 plant limit and wanting to run non-stop, you have to run 2 rooms..... (I mean you COULD run from seed 12/12, but to fill a screen youd want 6 at a time, and thats not what your after here)
This allows the plants to be independently mobile.... and the light penetration of 1000w from the side, and on ALL sides of each plant.... 


If thats too much, scrog it... My last 400w 2'x2' single plant scrog dropped 472g and made me wanna weep with joy....


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## JackHererSki (Jul 19, 2014)

redzi said:


> If some breeder told me he has a strain that yields 1/2 pound off 600w and a few T8s I would say he is lying or doing it outside with a little help from this thing called a sun.


at 1 gram per watt thats 21 ozs... TOTALLY feasible


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## ttystikk (Jul 20, 2014)

Flagg420 said:


> IMO: If you wanna go vert (for the space saving purpose) and are sure you can keep the temps down, the best setup I've seen so far for your needs is to drop a bulb (or 2 when funds allow, stacked) Then surround your "light column" with a small wire fence (this ones for your safety really) Put each plant from seedling/clones straight to the flowering pot, then after a week or 2 of vegging n training, cage it with the same fencing (that nice green coated wire fencing from lowes) with each plant having an independent cage you surround the "light column" with plants, and... (worst part) rotate rotate rotate rotate...... if you cant automate this (cuz it wont be cheap or super simple, but can be done) this will make you insane... like every 1-2hrs while its on, turn them all..... Oh, if ya got spare floro's, stand them vertically opposite the main lights so the plants get surrounded by light...
> 
> Why go thru all this nonsense? (aside from the reasons of vert grow to begin with)
> 
> ...


Nice job! That's the most I've heard from a 400W light source!


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## ttystikk (Jul 20, 2014)

WTF is up with all the people wanting to rotate plants in vertical grows? How often do you turn your ScrOG upside down?!

I do NOT rotate my plants. Ever. They're clipped onto a screen that faces the same way the entire grow. Yes, there are bare branches in the back. So what? It's dark back there, the light is all inside!

I'm getting great yields, my trellis fills in, etc etc. I see no reason whatsoever to rotate plants in a vertical ScrOG setup.


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## ttystikk (Jul 20, 2014)

BenFranklin said:


> That's just wrong.... I root my clones in 7 - 10days and in 2 weeks they can go into budding, for a total of 14 days.
> 
> This method is also used in sea of green in which you take a single plant, remove as many clones as you can, put them in to rooting for 7 - 10 days, and immediately start budding when they start showing roots, you end up with a massive amount of little 1/4 to 1/2 ounce kolas.
> 
> ...


My six foot tall pre '98 Bubba Kush- a low yielding pure indica known for growing nothing but popcorn buds- just produced over a pound.

The reason your grows aren't getting better is because you are far too close minded to entertain new ideas.

Plenty of people 'call me out'- and then get a pic.

I know what I'm doing. Do you? From the sound of things, I'm beginning to doubt it.


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## BuzzD2Kill (Jul 21, 2014)

I usually veg for monthish, get my plants to 3 foot then 12-12, getting anywhere from 2oz - 5 oz plant. That being said I totally see you getting a grip of nuggs for bigger plants, that just makes sense.


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## ttystikk (Jul 21, 2014)

BuzzD2Kill said:


> I usually veg for monthish, get my plants to 3 foot then 12-12, getting anywhere from 2oz - 5 oz plant. That being said I totally see you getting a grip of nuggs for bigger plants, that just makes sense.


I veg rooted clones for a total of eight weeks, to end up with trees o' bud six feet tall.


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