# Why is my grow tent so hot?



## nickwin (Jan 15, 2012)

I'm in the final stages of getting my first grow room set up and I am struggling to keep the temperature down. Let me start out by saying I know this is a very common issue and I have read just about everything I could find of heat control ventilation ect. over the past few months and I honestly thought I wasn't going to have a problem with it.

This is my set up: I have a 4x4x6.5 grow tent inside a room that is approx. 8x12x8. Knowing heat was going to be an issue I went with a bigger fan than I thought I would need, a Tjurlund 6" inline rated at 500cfm. This is my only ventilation fan and it set up like this; 6x24" Phat filter -> Inline fan (pulling through filter) -> 600w HPS 6" air cooled reflector (Xtrasun) ->out of the tent and out a nearby window through a 6" louvered dryer vent. The window I exhaust out of is the type that swing out on hinges kind of like a door, I have the window cracked about 2-3" and its about 30" tall. For intake into the tent I am relying on two passive vents, one 6" duct and one 14x10 vent. Intake into the room that the tent is in is also passive, with just the gap under the door (approx. 3/4"x24") and the a heat vent in the room. I also have a nice size circulating fan in the tent.

I finally ran the light and fan for a few hours yesterday for the first time and was shocked at how hot it got under the light. I was taking the temp in two ways, with a digital thermometer and a IR thermo. The air temp in the tent up by the ceiling leveled off at about 74-76F, but directly under the light got a LOT hotter. The digital thermo was reading about 80-84 directly below the light with a 18-24" gap between the light and the probe. Using the IR thermo I was getting reading as high as 90F on a green t-shirt that I was using to simulate a plant at about 18". Not what I wanted to see. The air temp in the room that the tent is in is around 70F but got up to 74 with everything running for a few hours.

So now the real question, why is it getting so damn hot under the light, and what can I do to get the temp down 5 or so degrees? I honestly am not sure what the problem is at this point. I thought my fan would have plenty of CFM for my set up, at its rated CFM it would exchange the air in my room like 4x a minute, but maybe with all of the obstructions, turns, and lack of active intake. Am I just not getting enough CFM to cool the light? I have seen some people who claim they can put there air cooled 600w as close as 4-6" from there plants, how is that possible? Is it just a matter of having enough CFM through the light? It seems like my problem is the radiant heat from the actual light, not the actual air temp (convection) in the tent, will more air flow be able to do much with that kind of heat? Two possible solutions I can think of would be to add another fan for an intake into the tent, or possibly swap out the Xtrasun hood for a Cooltube. If there is a cheaper solution that would obviously be ideal. I am a renter and I don't want to have to make any major alterations to the house itself, so cutting a whole in the door and things like that are not options for me.

The first thing I tried was to remove a piece of white speaker cloth that I had over the duct behind the louvered exhaust vent. The speaker cloth made the vent less noticeable visually from the outside, but removing it did seem to noticeably increase air flow. Unfortunately not enough to have much effect on the temp. The temp probably went down a degree or two, but its still in the 80s under the light. Any thought/advice/tips would be awesome, I was hoping to have some girls in the room within the next couple weeks. Thanks!


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## bigmanc (Jan 15, 2012)

i run a 1000whps in my 4x4 with a 4' inline fan and i can keep my light 1ft from my plants, your setup looks fine! you could even put a 1000w in that tent and make it cool.

WHAT YOU NEED TO DO!!! (my trial and error experience)

Take that friggin venting out of the hole. Close the Hole. Safety pin up one of the flaps.

Yes you will have a "light leak" but you wont have fluffy buds due to heat.

Whats happening.

You need negative pressure to force the hot air out, your filter will suck out the hot air before it drops with the help of your oscilating fan. Heat rises and thats why your filter is there. Hot air carries odours. In the hottest temps of summer, you open your freezer the cold air forces the hot from around your head and cools you down. Consider the flap as your freezer and the cooltube as your head.

Hope that helps.


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## nickwin (Jan 15, 2012)

bigmanc said:


> i run a 1000whps in my 4x4 with a 4' inline fan and i can keep my light 1ft from my plants, your setup looks fine! you could even put a 1000w in that tent and make it cool.


This is exactly the kind of statement that makes me think _something_ is off in my set up. It seems like it should not be getting as hot as it is, and this is with the light at least 18" away. When you say open one of the flaps, do you mean the rectangular ones at the bottom? I actually have one of those open already, my plan was to use that plus the 6" duct during veg and close the flap and add another 6" duct intake to keep the light out, by my room is actually dark enough that I could probably get away with leaving the vent open during flowering. Unfortunately if that's what you were talking about, its already open (look in the third pic, the vent on the left is open) and the temp is still to high.


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## Ringsixty (Jan 15, 2012)

I see you have chosen to filter the air and then send it to you reflector. I just have a silly question. Is there a exhaust fan pulling the hot air away from your reflector and exhaust the hot ?


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## Tmac4302 (Jan 15, 2012)

Low to mid 80's isn't bad man. The plant will adjust to whatever environment you give her as long as it is CONSTANT. The only times you will start seeing problems, imo, is when temps are up and down all the time. Plus, if you have fans blowing over the top of the canopy/across the plant, the temps will lower around your plants "bubble". You can lower it a good 2-4 degrees that way and the plants LOVE it. Also, you might be having problems with the heat if your ambient temps outside the tent that are being sucked in through negative pressure are a little warm. It seems like you have a few bends in your ducting as well. That can cause a pretty noticeable decline in CFMs. Hope you get it figured out man.


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## dbuffet (Jan 15, 2012)

Also make sure your hood is sealed so your not getting any leaks. Feel around the glass for leaks and seal them with duct tape. I also push my hot air to another room and pull cold air in through my window. Good luck.


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## bigmanc (Jan 15, 2012)

Ringsixty said:


> I see you have chosen to filter the air and then send it to you reflector. I just have a silly question. Is there a exhaust fan pulling the hot air away from your reflector and exhaust the hot ?


LOLOL i cant believe i didnt notice this!!! dude, take your fan and connect it closer to the exit. Inline fans are designed to suck air out. Not push air through probably 6ft of ducting. Dont listen to whoever told you to do that, or it could be a honest mistake.

This is mysetup and im running about 77f with a 4inch


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## nickwin (Jan 15, 2012)

dbuffet said:


> Also make sure your hood is sealed so your not getting any leaks. Feel around the glass for leaks and seal them with duct tape. I also push my hot air to another room and pull cold air in through my window. Good luck.


I do have a pretty good seal on the hood. When I first ran it the lens kind of bulged out in the middle from the positive pressure, and was leaking MAJOR air. I put that duct tape on there as you can see in the pic and that pretty much took care of it. I wonder if the fact that the lens bulged out that much was a sign that I have to much positive pressure in my ducting, in other words the exhaust outtake is so restricted?


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## bigmanc (Jan 15, 2012)

^^^ REEEAAAAADDDD MYYYYY PPPPOOOOOSSSSSSSTTTTTT lol  ^^^


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## nickwin (Jan 15, 2012)

bigmanc said:


> LOLOL i cant believe i didnt notice this!!! dude, take your fan and connect it closer to the exit. Inline fans are designed to suck air out. Not push air through probably 6ft of ducting. Dont listen to whoever told you to do that, or it could be a honest mistake.
> 
> This is mysetup and im running about 77f with a 4inch
> View attachment 1999388


Interesting, I kind of wondered it I was asking to much of the inline pushing through that many turns and whatnot after the fan. But I have read from multiple sources that its good to have positive pressure in your ducting to keep it open. Also, how many watts is your light? And it is a Cooltube, so it may naturally run cooler than my Xtrasun? If moving the inline would actually reduce the temp a few degrees that would be an easy solution for sure.


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## Dank Hands (Jan 15, 2012)

I have an aircooled hood in my tent but i dont even have ducting plugged into it right now. I just have my inline blowing air outside from the top of the tent, and a CF attatched to the side of the inline that is sucking air. perfect temps


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## grobofotwanky (Jan 15, 2012)

Ringsixty said:


> I see you have chosen to filter the air and then send it to you reflector. I just have a silly question. Is there a exhaust fan pulling the hot air away from your reflector and exhaust the hot ?


I agree. I think this is part of your problem


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## nickwin (Jan 15, 2012)

grobofotwanky said:


> I agree. I think this is part of your problem


First of all, thanks for the help guys... I guess the next question is, will moving the inline I have to the end of the chain (right before it vents outside) be enough, or am I going to have to leave the one I have where it is and add another at the exit? Keep in mind the fan I have is rated at 500CFM in a 100 cu/ft tent, so I would think it should be enough. Obviously not doing the trick in its current set up though.


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## Ringsixty (Jan 15, 2012)

All I can say @ this point. is why don't you just move the fan to the other end of your setup. Just for shits and giggles...  Never know till you try.


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## Ringsixty (Jan 15, 2012)

500 CFM fan should be able to pull the air through your system.


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## jondamon (Jan 15, 2012)

Any bend in ducting is efficiency lost from your fan. 

15% lost for every 90degree bend. 

15% lost for every 10ft of ducting. 

20% lost from adding a carbon filter. 

Which of these three is the only one you can't live without?

Right your carbon filter! 

Remove any 90degree bends and try to replace with nothing smaller than 120degrees. With a 120bend you only loose around 5% efficienc. 


Your 500cfm fan with attached filter and 2 90bends reduces down to around 250-300cfm. 




J


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## grobofotwanky (Jan 15, 2012)

I say there will be a big difference.


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## bigmanc (Jan 15, 2012)

Move your fan, trust me. Read everyones post. There saying "Pull" and not "Push". Fuck i had a 6'' before it blew a barring and i had to buy a inline fan dial to turn it all the way down. I have a 1000w hps w/ digital ballast.


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## nickwin (Jan 15, 2012)

jondamon said:


> Any bend in ducting is efficiency lost from your fan.
> 
> 15% lost for every 90degree bend.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, with the way the vents are in the tent, there is no way for me totally get rid of the bends and still be able to move the light up and down. 

Another question though, even if I am only getting 250cfm, shouldn't that still keep my room cooler than what I am seeing. Seems like the CFM would have to be even lower to get the temps I am seeing. I am going to follow all your advice and the first thing I am going to try is to move the inline to the end of the chain and see what that does. Now I am wishing I wouldn't have used so much foil tape lol. Going to be a real pain to move the fan. I'll post an update after I make the change.


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## bigmanc (Jan 15, 2012)

Ive seen 2 - 600ws ran in a 4x4 with 1 6'' fan going full force.


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## Ringsixty (Jan 15, 2012)

nickwin said:


> Unfortunately, with the way the vents are in the tent, there is no way for me totally get rid of the bends and still be able to move the light up and down.
> 
> Another question though, even if I am only getting 250cfm, shouldn't that still keep my room cooler than what I am seeing. Seems like the CFM would have to be even lower to get the temps I am seeing. I am going to follow all your advice and the first thing I am going to try is to move the inline to the end of the chain and see what that does. Now I am wishing I wouldn't have used so much foil tape lol. Going to be a real pain to move the fan. I'll post an update after I make the change.


..........


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## nickwin (Jan 15, 2012)

Well I've been working all day on rearranging my ventilation setup. I now have the 6" inline outside the tent pulling air through the whole system and blowing it out the window. I really hoped it was going to drop my temp down 5-6 degrees, but it didn't seem to make much of a difference. I've got the light about 18" above my digital thermometer and I am reading 80-82F. With my IR thermo the surface temp of the t-shirts is 88-92F while the surface of the thermometer probe is about 84 (I think its cooler because its white and reflects more light). The surface temp of the reflector hood is about 80-84 on the top and sides. I honestly have no idea why its getting so hot at this point. The only thing I can think of air flow wise is the duct in the first picture on the left seems to be a little restricted. I'm thinking maybe using a 90 degree elbow there would help? I feel like something is seriously wrong though, when people have the same set up with more watts are putting the light a foot closer and are getting temps 8 degrees cooler. WTF?


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## bigmanc (Jan 15, 2012)

wow... no idea whats going on then, whats the temp in the bedroom outside the tent?


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## Ringsixty (Jan 15, 2012)

What is the ambient air around the tent?


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## Ringsixty (Jan 15, 2012)

Do you have a fan pushing air into the tent?


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## Dank Hands (Jan 15, 2012)

Take the ducting and plug both sides of your reflector to the ports(without being plugged into the CF or fan). PLug the CF and the fan together pumping hot air at the top of the tent to the outside of the room. If you only have 2 ports in your tent, dont have your reflector plugged into any ducting.
thats all


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## nickwin (Jan 15, 2012)

bigmanc said:


> wow... no idea whats going on then, whats the temp in the bedroom outside the tent?


You and me both! Ambiant temp in the room is 70-72.

I'm using passive intake, so no intake fan.


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## nickwin (Jan 15, 2012)

Dank Hands said:


> Take the ducting and plug both sides of your reflector to the ports(without being plugged into the CF or fan). PLug the CF and the fan together pumping hot air at the top of the tent to the outside of the top to the outside of the room. If you only have 2 ports in your tent, dont have your reflector plugged into any ducting.
> thats all


I do have more ports I can use, its just everything I read and have been told was that this one fan would be enough to both cool the light and vent the room. I'm kind of confused about what your saying. Wont the room get hotter if I use the same fan with just the CF but without cooling the light?


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## Dank Hands (Jan 15, 2012)

In my experience, no. As long as air is moving in your tent and its not completely stale, the hot air should rise. I think your problem is suction and will be solved with having the fan directly plugged into the CF. Should vaccum out almost all of the heat from the tent.


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## Dank Hands (Jan 15, 2012)

Do you know what I mean by having the ducting plugged into the ports and the reflector with no fan involved with the reflector?


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## nickwin (Jan 15, 2012)

Dank Hands said:


> Do you know what I mean by having the ducting plugged into the ports and the reflector with no fan involved with the reflector?


Not exactly. Are you saying to just have the reflector by itself, with nothing attached to either port, and have the CF connected directly to the fan with ducting running directly out of the tent?

As you can see in my OP I originally had the fan connected directly to the CF. The fan was pulling air through the CF and blowing it through the light and out of the tent via ducting. Are you saying that this was too much resistance on the fan, and I will get better air flow without going through the light? It seems like the extra CFM from this wouldn't effect the temp as much as as running the air though the light on the way out of the room, but I could be wrong. As I said, I've done a lot a research, but this is my first set up.

Also, the CF does seem to be sucking the hot air away from the ceiling of the tent, its only 72F at the ceiling and on the surface of the CF. Its the radiant heat from the light that seems to be the problem, as the surface temp in the direct light is as high as 92.


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## Dank Hands (Jan 15, 2012)

nickwin said:


> Not exactly. Are you saying to just have the reflector by itself, with nothing attached to either port, and have the CF connected directly to the fan with ducting running directly out of the tent?
> 
> As you can see in my OP I originally had the fan connected directly to the CF. The fan was pulling air through the CF and blowing it through the light and out of the tent via ducting. Are you saying that this was too much resistance on the fan, and I will get better air flow without going through the light? It seems like the extra CFM from this wouldn't effect the temp as much as as running the air though the light on the way out of the room, but I could be wrong. As I said, I've done a lot a research, but this is my first set up.


well, imo that was your best option if you had no other ports.(2nd best) I would do that, but then plug the reflector into the sides of your tent with the ducting. Your first setup I think didnt work because of the ducting plug ins and bends(it was just reverse from your 2nd setup, but same prob).


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## Dank Hands (Jan 15, 2012)

so basically with this setup I am describing, most of your reflector heat is in your ducting and in your room that the tent is in. Then the hot air at the top of the tent is sucked out(at the best rate) and pushed outside of your house.


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## nickwin (Jan 15, 2012)

I'm trying to kind of step back here and look at the big picture to figure out what is going on with this. Does it seem normal that the air/surface temp up by the ceiling is only 72 and 18" under the light is in the mid 80s? Is it normal for it to be that much hotter under the light than up by the ceiling?


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## Dank Hands (Jan 15, 2012)

72 at the ceiling inside the tent or the room the tent is in?


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## nickwin (Jan 15, 2012)

Dank Hands said:


> 72 at the ceiling inside the tent or the room the tent is in?


In the actual tent itself


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## Dank Hands (Jan 15, 2012)

You are gonna need some nice fan action in the tent to blow on the girls/move the air around.


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## Dank Hands (Jan 15, 2012)

several tiny problems added up= temp problem for you


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## nickwin (Jan 15, 2012)

Dank Hands said:


> You are gonna need some nice fan action in the tent to blow on the girls/move the air around.


I do have a circulating fan in there now. Ceiling temp is currently 71, surface temp of the tshirt 18" under the light is reading 88F, and that's with the fan blowing up from the floor across the reflector. Is is possible that I am just getting bad thermo readings? Like maybe the plants will reflect more heat than the tshirt or my thermo probe and therefore will not absorb as much radiant heat?


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## nickwin (Jan 15, 2012)

Ok, with my circulating fan blowing right at the thermometer probe, the temp went down to 77-80. So maybe like you say I just need to have the fan blowing over the canopy


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## Dank Hands (Jan 15, 2012)

not sure about your thermometer. If you re-setup your design and wait a while im sure it will improve.


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## Dank Hands (Jan 15, 2012)

in my tent I have the inline fan( setup same as decribed), then i have 2 large stationary fans set on low, then i have 1 small 6in oscillating clip on fan.


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## nickwin (Jan 16, 2012)

I've got one more thing I can try to increase air flow and hopefully reduce temperatures. I am going to put a solid right angle duct piece where the ducting goes out of the tent on the left. As you can see in the picture the flexible ducting gets kind of restricted there. Then I am going to try to shorten the amount of ducting going to the light and try to get it straighter and more stretched out. If that doesn't help I have no idea what to try next.


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## skunkd0c (Jan 16, 2012)

bigmanc said:


> i run a 1000whps in my 4x4 with a 4' inline fan and i can keep my light 1ft from my plants, your setup looks fine! you could even put a 1000w in that tent and make it cool.
> 
> WHAT YOU NEED TO DO!!! (my trial and error experience)
> 
> ...



do you have any pictures of this 1000w hps being cooled by only a 4inch inline fan, 1ft from your plants that sounds crazy me , hope its true and not just hot air lol ?


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## bigmanc (Jan 16, 2012)

skunkd0c said:


> do you have any pictures of this 1000w hps being cooled by only a 4inch inline fan, 1ft from your plants that sounds crazy me , hope its true and not just hot air lol ?


No pics with the temp . . . but my plants wouldnt look the way they do if i had issues. This is my current journal.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/499458-4-white-rhino-under-1000w.html#post6856016


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## Tmac4302 (Jan 16, 2012)

bigmanc said:


> LOLOL i cant believe i didnt notice this!!! dude, take your fan and connect it closer to the exit. Inline fans are designed to suck air out. Not push air through probably 6ft of ducting. Dont listen to whoever told you to do that, or it could be a honest mistake.
> 
> This is mysetup and im running about 77f with a 4inch
> View attachment 1999388


Yeah, that should increase his CFM and do the trick.


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## nickwin (Jan 16, 2012)

Tmac4302 said:


> Yeah, that should increase his CFM and do the trick.


I actually tried that and that alone had little effect on the temp. I left the inline at the end of the system and today worked on streamlining my ducting and that appears to have helped. I've had the light and the and the fan on for about 40 min and I'm getting 77 deg 18" under the light. Thank god lol. The fan seems to be running quieter also which is another plus. I'd love to get my temps down another 2-3 deg, but I think I will be alright how it is.


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## flowamasta (Jan 17, 2012)

very interesting, im also having troubles with my tent, damn summer 40 degree days!! i like the idea of only having 1 bottom vent open to create negative pressure, i think thats where my problem lies, my zip broke on my tent, so it doesnt seal real well, im using a velcro strip, but there is leaks. i put newspaper over 2 of the 3 vents on the bottom vents, to see if it will create more negative pressure, it kinda makes sense in my head, 

i'm using a 6 inch 500cfm centrifugal fan, usually with 6 foot of ducting, blowing through the carbon filter on the outside of the tent, im experimenting at the moment, going down tomoz to look at evap coolers for the room, to bring ambient 28 degree down......hopefully


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## nickwin (Jan 17, 2012)

flowamasta said:


> very interesting, im also having troubles with my tent, damn summer 40 degree days!! i like the idea of only having 1 bottom vent open to create negative pressure, i think thats where my problem lies, my zip broke on my tent, so it doesnt seal real well, im using a velcro strip, but there is leaks. i put newspaper over 2 of the 3 vents on the bottom vents, to see if it will create more negative pressure, it kinda makes sense in my head,
> 
> i'm using a 6 inch 500cfm centrifugal fan, usually with 6 foot of ducting, blowing through the carbon filter on the outside of the tent, im experimenting at the moment, going down tomoz to look at evap coolers for the room, to bring ambient 28 degree down......hopefully


Flowamasta, if you are only using one fan and its blowing air out of the tent and are relying on passive intakes you will always have negative pressure in your tent. Restricting the passive intakes will only decrease your CFM. The bigger the passive intakes the more air flow you will get (up to a certain point at least), and your going to need that CFM!. I got a 550CFM fan for a 105 cubic foot grow tent thinking I'd have no worries but I was wrong.

My problem has been radiant heat from the light. The air temp in my tent is only gets up to around 72-73 (out of direct light), but if I put my thermometer right under the light and have its face pointing at the light it will get up to 80-82F 18" under the light. Surprisingly my reflector only gets up to the high 70's and even the lense feels pretty cool to the touch.


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## lokie (Jan 17, 2012)

Me thinks thou doth protest too much.


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## ogt192 (Jun 8, 2012)

nickwin said:


> Flowamasta, if you are only using one fan and its blowing air out of the tent and are relying on passive intakes you will always have negative pressure in your tent. Restricting the passive intakes will only decrease your CFM. The bigger the passive intakes the more air flow you will get (up to a certain point at least), and your going to need that CFM!. I got a 550CFM fan for a 105 cubic foot grow tent thinking I'd have no worries but I was wrong.
> 
> My problem has been radiant heat from the light. The air temp in my tent is only gets up to around 72-73 (out of direct light), but if I put my thermometer right under the light and have its face pointing at the light it will get up to 80-82F 18" under the light. Surprisingly my reflector only gets up to the high 70's and even the lense feels pretty cool to the touch.


Hey, how did this turn out? I'm having the same problem.. except hotter temps and smaller tent. I have a 20"x36"x60 (25 cubic feet) with a 600w MH light right now in a aircooled tube. I'm using a 190cfm inline fan sitting on top of the tent pulling the air through and a CF on the floor of the tent. So it goes CF > aircooled tube > top of tent > 190 cfm fan. My temps with the light at 75% and about 14 inches above the plant are about 91.

All these threads talk about having big lights and having a cool room, but I don't see how it's possible to get the temp lower.


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## BlueBalls (Jun 8, 2012)

bigmanc said:


> Inline fans are designed to suck air out. Not push air through probably 6ft of ducting.


Sorry for being critical but this is a popular misnomer.

Fans are designed to blow higher amounts of air at moderate pressures. 
Blowers are designed to blow moderate amounts of air at higher pressures.

Inline centrifugal fans are blowers. That doesn't mean you can't use them to vacuum. 
The vacuum at the intake is the result of the fans designed physical action of blowing.


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## n31 (Jun 11, 2012)

Any updates? I'm currently going through the same in a 4x4x6 with a 600w mh. Temps are ridic!


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## lordjin (Jun 11, 2012)

You might also want to consider that real plants give off moisture which cools the air somewhat... unlike green tee shirts.

If the suggested solutions are not working for you, here is the last resort. It'll cost you, but it'll work.

Hook your light up to a completely enclosed ducting system. Meaning that you're gonna be giving your light its own atmosphere completely apart from the grow room's atomsphere. A big-ass inline fine is either pushing or pulling the room's air through your light hood (intake opening and exhaust opening through duct -- no sucking grow tent's hot air over hotter bulb). Then you get a second fan and run your filter out another hole for exhaust. Either that or air conditioning. When it comes to managing the heat of an hid, there's no 'magical trick' I'm afraid.

Good luck.


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## 808killahz (Jun 11, 2012)

personally i dont think low to mid 80's is a big deal. So long as temps dont pass 90 degrees you should be fine. Also air temp and radiant temp are two different things. Kinda like if i was going to the beach in 70 degree weather and come home sun burnt. If you reading 72 degrees at the top of the tent and low/mid 80s at the bottom your good. just use that oscilating fan to blow over the plants and your cherry. Or, as lordjin suggested, you can always run your lights on its own cooling system using one fan and your tent exhaust on another fan. that will minimize the bends and allow better effieciency from your fans.

Or you can just run flourescents... lol.


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## bertiswho (Jun 15, 2012)

your pulling hot air through the hood too, so that is gonna decrease the cooling of the light you could be getting if you ran the hood cooling seperatly


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