# VERTiGO



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Jan 13, 2015)

Welcome


I have been running a 4000 watt grow for awhile now. Recently I tried an experiment by changing all 3 flower bulbs to MH. While I enjoyed the _frostiest_ buds I have _ever_ seen, my yields plummeted.

This led me to change the bulbs back to HPS and hit RIU for some research. I ended up reading whodat's thread and then all the other 6 or 8 vertical threads going. I realized my 3000 watts air cooled on a commercial mover covering a 6' x 8' canopy was a complete waste of a 1000 watt bulb and ballast.

I became inspired to turn this


Into this



It is a 6' x 6' x 9' 3" tall. I built it out of Styrofoam sheets with a reflective side, though that is not why I bought that material. I also used 3" deck screws, 2" x 2" long boards, duct tape, construction adhesive, tie wire, and black plastic. The plastic was only required because I did not buy the right styrofoam sheets and light would come through.




I borrowed whodat's hazy susan idea so I didn't need a 10' x 10' room around this. There's an 8" exhaust on the top and 2 x 6" intakes on the bottom. The wire screen measures 16' 3" around by 5' high creating just over 81 square feet of canopy space.



I put a 1000 watt MH in for now and I also installed a piece of light mover track so I can go down that road if I want to. I put a root ball from a recent harvest down first, and then a fresh 15gal ROLS pot on top for a total of 30gal of soil.

The root balls were left in darkness for a couple days and then when I opened up the room I got s great shot of the visible part of the micro-herd



I added a box fan in the middle blowing upward on low that is not pictured. I also had to cut in another 8" intake hole because the 2 x 6" holes were not allowing enough air in. The exhaust fan is a simple Active Air inline fan.

I almost forgot the strains! One is Kosher Tangie from fem seed and the other is a Sour Lemon OG clone. both were topped. I've already realized I should have vegged them quite a bit longer than I did, but I was too excited to get it going. Because of this progress will be slow, but if that's my worst mistake I'll be fine.

Updates to come, thanks for checking it out.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 18, 2015)

I'm very interested in the lazy Susan idea and how it's working out.


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Jan 18, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I'm very interested in the lazy Susan idea and how it's working out.


So far it is working well. I purposely built it with as little as I thought I could get away with since I usually do it the other way around.

So far I see no reason it wont work all the way through, though I think I'd beef it up a little bit for the next run.

I also have to say again that it was not my idea, I got it from whodatnation.


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Jan 18, 2015)

WEEK 1

The plants are both growing well now. It took a few gallons of water go get them soaked to the bottom the first time.

The air flow was inadequate so I changed the back intake from 6" to 8". Now there is no negative pressure at all.
I also placed a humidifier at the intakes. The room runs about 9-10 degrees above intake temp and humidity is 50%.




Kosher Tangie


I'm guessing another 4-6 weeks veg at least. It will be worth the wait.


----------



## pilsung (Jan 19, 2015)

nice looking op you got going, captn. everything clean and well thought out.
my only criticism would be to ask, why only two plants? seems to me you would get alot more a lot faster if you had six or more girls in the circle.
with only two in the cage it looks like a thunderdome or ufc style mach up, next round you should make it a battle royal with a half dozen girls locked in the cage of bloom. 

good luck with the rest of your grow, hope they fill up the screen fast.


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Jan 26, 2015)

pilsung said:


> nice looking op you got going, captn. everything clean and well thought out.
> my only criticism would be to ask, why only two plants? seems to me you would get alot more a lot faster if you had six or more girls in the circle.
> with only two in the cage it looks like a thunderdome or ufc style mach up, next round you should make it a battle royal with a half dozen girls locked in the cage of bloom.
> 
> good luck with the rest of your grow, hope they fill up the screen fast.


Thanks man.

I only put 2 plants in there because I can only have a total of 12 plants with no more than six flowering. My horizontal grow continues, so this is for learning. I wanted to see if I like this style of growing. I guarantee the next run will start with 4-5' tall plants.


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Jan 26, 2015)

*WEEK 2*

This week as I observed more, I noticed the temps hanging out around 80-81f. While not out of control that is just a couple degrees hotter than I wanted it, so I changed the 8" inline fan to an 8" centrifugal fan. I also brought the exhaust tube to within about 1 foot of the bulb. I took some old panda film and wrapped the white side out around my pots so the black wouldn't absorb and emit heat.
Now the room is running about 77-78f, perfect for me. The humidity is 35% yet the plants are growing well.



Kosher Tangie



Sour Lemon OG



Here's my horizontal grow.


I also moved the bulb up some more to about 1/3 down from the top of the screen.
Thanks for stopping by.


----------



## Soulkipper (Jan 26, 2015)

only thing i can say is they look heavy.. just from researching on RIU the plants look like they should be pruned a little. watering schedule might need to lax a little otherwise and should achieve similar results.. the leaves will get thinner like on a diet and will perk up all the way.


----------



## a senile fungus (Jan 26, 2015)

Soulkipper said:


> only thing i can say is they look heavy.. just from researching on RIU the plants look like they should be pruned a little. watering schedule might need to lax a little otherwise and should achieve similar results.. the leaves will get thinner like on a diet and will perk up all the way.



Thanks for your wise advice . have you finished your harvest yet?


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Jan 26, 2015)

Soulkipper said:


> only thing i can say is they look heavy.. just from researching on RIU the plants look like they should be pruned a little. watering schedule might need to lax a little otherwise and should achieve similar results.. the leaves will get thinner like on a diet and will perk up all the way.


Thanks for the advice friend. You are sure right about the pruning - I spent an hour and a half this morning un-tangling and doing a bit of pruning. I had fallen way behind and realized that shoots were heading the wrong direction and such. Now they are headed the right way, I chopped a few branches off and got the temps right.
There is definitely a learning curve here.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 27, 2015)

CaptainCAVEMAN said:


> Thanks man.
> 
> I only put 2 plants in there because I can only have a total of 12 plants with no more than six flowering. My horizontal grow continues, so this is for learning. I wanted to see if I like this style of growing. I guarantee the next run will start with 4-5' tall plants.


You'll like those results.

Meanwhile, don't be afraid to run lights above the ladies while they veg, as it keeps them growing in the right direction.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 27, 2015)

CaptainCAVEMAN said:


> Thanks for the advice friend. You are sure right about the pruning - I spent an hour and a half this morning un-tangling and doing a bit of pruning. I had fallen way behind and realized that shoots were heading the wrong direction and such. Now they are headed the right way, I chopped a few branches off and got the temps right.
> There is definitely a learning curve here.


You're not kidding- I've been climbing the damn thing for years and there's no end in sight!


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Jan 28, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> You'll like those results.
> 
> Meanwhile, don't be afraid to run lights above the ladies while they veg, as it keeps them growing in the right direction.


Good idea man. I've already got the bulb up as high as I can get it. Seems like I should just put some shop lights on top and turn off the MH, but that might be a little too little.



ttystikk said:


> You're not kidding- I've been climbing the damn thing for years and there's no end in sight!


Yea, I'd better get some good climbing gear. Hahahaha


----------



## pilsung (Jan 31, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> You're not kidding- I've been climbing the damn thing for years and there's no end in sight!


my fear of heights has made made my progress very slow...


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 31, 2015)

pilsung said:


> my fear of heights has made made my progress very slow...


I'm trying to network with this guy named Jack. I hear he's got an awesome beanstalk...


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Feb 1, 2015)

*WEEK 3*

Not too many changes this week.
I started letting them dry out a bit on top. One problem with this setup is it's pretty hard to figure out when they need water.
I think I'd be better off if I had put the 15g smart pot into a 30g instead of on another 15g. I also think the plant would like a wider pot more than a deep pot.

The kosher Tangie is growing well.


The Sour Lemon OG is not growing so well though I don't blame the plant, I blame my lack or pruning experience.
With my horizontal grow I don't prune anything except some really low shoots early in flower.
With this vertical grow they must really be trimmed right. I just chopped off 2 large branches off the backside that simply couldn't be worked into the spreading plant - they were just choking air flow and using the plant's power to grow.
Had these been removed 2 or 3 weeks ago all that energy would have been represented on the screen instead of as mulch.


At work the other day I found these at a moving company. They are for sliding furniture easily. They work great under these posts which had started grinding kinda hard and catching on a crack as I turn the screen.
The reason I didn't put another set of wheels under the posts as well was due to the slope of the garage floor - 4 wheels would have had the whole screen rocking back and forth a lot at the top. 2 wheels works well though.


Sort of lousy room shot. 


That's it till next week.


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Feb 9, 2015)

*WEEK 4*

The plants are still filling in. Considering how low the humidity is I guess they're not doing too bad. I've realized that the only way to get the humidity up where I want it is to have the grow room inside a sealed room with an AC and humidifier. That is on the way but will sill be awhile.
I got frustrated this week and almost gave up on vertical because of the humidity issue and the slow growth, but then I decided to accept the challenge and I doubled down.
I tore out the tiny coat closet that was behind the couch and unused. It had a million nails and 3 layers of drywall. There's a shoulder high pile of wood and drywall in the backyard until I can get it out of there. Damn guys didn't even pour the whole garage floor so I did.
Now the area is ready to start building a second room next to the first one. I figure the best way to perpetually grow these is with one room more than I intend to flower - that way one has a long veg while the other flowers.



Kosher Tangie

Sour Lemon OG

I like this pic - it's starting to look like a wall of weed! It's about halfway to the top now.


----------



## MartaStuart (Feb 13, 2015)

It;s beautiful man!


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Feb 17, 2015)

MartaStuart said:


> It;s beautiful man!


Thanks Marta! Live long and prosper.


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Feb 17, 2015)

*Week 5*

This post is running late but better than never.
The plants are still growing well I'd say. It takes me about an hour to an hour and a half to go through both plants and untangle, tie down, prune, tuck and water these. I'm still learning technique and still need to prune more aggressively.

Kosher Tangie


Sour Lemon Og


I've realized the question isn't if this is possible, the question is if it is more productive than the way I was growing.

I read ttystick's post about how he thinks it'd be easier to clip the plants to the front of the cage instead of the traditional way of thinking about trellising with the plant underneath (or behind) the screen. The more I do this it seems he might be right and will try this on the next room.

The reason I had a circle that could turn was because I was copying another members design, though his used 600w instead of 1000w. I think my second room will be different. I want to have an opening in the screen about 2' wide so I can enter and work it from the inside.I'm also thinking about more like big soil planters 2' x 3' x 2'deep on either side of the room so I can still fit in the middle. I'm also considering 3 plants instead of 2 though I'm still undecided on that one, I need to produce and use better starter plants before I decide if 2 plants can do this or if I'd be better off with 3.

Oh yea, correction-


NOW it is ready to start building the second room.


----------



## elkamino (Feb 18, 2015)

Good for you experimenting! Thanks for bringing us along.


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Mar 1, 2015)

elkamino said:


> Good for you experimenting! Thanks for bringing us along.


Thanks for checking it out. I hope this thread helps someone else get where they want to go.


----------



## elkamino (Mar 1, 2015)

I'm about to switch from horizontal to vert myself, and what you're doing looks a lot like the grow I'm planning... so thank you for posting this.

Flip to 12-12 yet?! 



CaptainCAVEMAN said:


> Thanks for checking it out. I hope this thread helps someone else get where they want to go.


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Mar 2, 2015)

*Week 6 *

Apologies for taking so long to post week 6. I've been busy trying to find a new job and building the new room.

Kosher Tangie


KT


Sour Lemon OG


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Mar 2, 2015)

elkamino said:


> I'm about to switch from horizontal to vert myself, and what you're doing looks a lot like the grow I'm planning... so thank you for posting this.
> 
> Flip to 12-12 yet?!


You're welcome friend.

I had to get some new duct to get it light tight, but I just changed the timer to 12/12. I'll switch the bulb to HPS in a week or two.

Good luck going vertical!


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Mar 2, 2015)

*WEEK 7*

End of week seven marks the end of veg and the beginning of flower. I flowered it even though it's not a full circle because I think I've learned all I can from these 2 plants and the Sour Lemon OG really isn't cooperating. I want a do over!

The humidity has slowly improved as the canopy grew. Now it stays about 40-45% RH at around 75-77F.
I put a few inches of worm castings on top and watered a couple gallons each. The Kosher Tangie has nice crisp white roots poking out of the bottom into the hydroton! Nice thick stalk too. These plants will still produce quite a bit of bud.



Kosher Tangie


Sour Lemon OG



I have a Critical Jack Herrer and a Punky Lion vegging for the next chamber. The CJH is about 3 feet tall and the PL is only half that, but isn't topped. I'll put them in the vert room when the CJH is 4' tall.

With the left room I decided to use panda film to make a tent. It was much cheaper and much easier to build. Tent's usually suck in my opinion, but I had 3 hard walls to work off of so I think it'll be ok.

Drywall strips worked well when I ran out of wooden pieces. I still have to build the hazy susan and put in the duct work. I did put up 2 corner posts screwed to the floor and ceiling, That way I can run all the intakes through the 1' gap between the rooms.



Thanks for checking out my vert grow.


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Mar 15, 2015)

*FLOWER WEEK 1*

Been awhile since I flipped to flower. I'm calling this end of week one even though its more like day 12. I like to use weeks instead of days.
I changed the bulb to HPS at about a week into flower. As soon as I changed the bulb the room started running about 5 degrees cooler than the MH. I did not know they run cooler.
The buds are starting to set nicely. Nothing but water every couple days or so.
I can't really get a picture of the whole KT without the bulb. I need to quit being lazy and move the bulb and maybe also use fluorescent's for pics.

Kosher Tangie


Sour Lemon OG


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Mar 16, 2015)

*LEFT ROOM*

I finally finished the left room. Left room / Right room doesn't seem very creative. Any Ideas?

I built the hazy susan much more stout this time. I used the 2x2 side rails to connect 2 boards that were shelves in the closet I tore down. That worked out well because then I didn't even have to attatch the rollers to the boards.



This time I used 30g smart pots. It turns easily, though I can't turn it by pushing the vertical posts.



The roots of this Critical Jack Herrer are ready for more room.







Now that's what I'm talking about!

Just got a job at a dispensary! can't finish post WOOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!


----------



## grapefruitmarmalade (Mar 16, 2015)

Congrats man!!!


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Mar 16, 2015)

Thanks man! I'm so stoked!


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Mar 25, 2015)

*RIGHT ROOM FLOWER WEEK 2*

Not much to note here. Nothing but water. Oh yea, it's starting to smell pretty good in here.

Kosher Tangie


Sour Lemon OG



*LEFT ROOM VEG*

The Critical Jack Herrer is already at the top of the cage. The Punky Lion I left in horizontal veg trying to let it grow up but it was just doing the Christmas tree thing instead of growing up. Proper strain selection is really important to get a great performance with this vertical cage.

Critical Jack Herrer - left side


CJH - right side


Punky Lion



The job I got is at a dispensary that has a clone room, 3 veg rooms and 7 flower rooms, all indoor. The veg rooms vary from t-5's to MH. The flower rooms are 21,000w overhead air cooled hoods each. It's like working in heaven!


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Apr 1, 2015)

*RIGHT SIDE - FLOWER WEEK 3*

These are looking great. They only need to be watered every 3 or 4 days. I'm going to start a slow and regular defoliation of older largeer fan leaves blocking bud from light.

KT


SLOG


KT frosting up nicely


I can't wait to have pics of a whole ring full of bud!


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (May 11, 2015)

1st vertical harvest

Kosher Tangie - about 30 sq.ft. of canopy


Sour Lemon OG - about 16 sq.ft. of canopy



I concluded that to fill the whole ring I'd really need to use 3 or four plants.
After harvest, I immediately refilled the left vertical this time with three plants - Critical Jack Herrer, Silver Kush, and Martian Kush.
I'll post some weights soon, but I now know that I really needed to keep it from jungling. Live and learn, this run will be much better weight wise. Quality wise both strains are just incredible - it takes quite a bit for me to say that.


----------



## elkamino (May 11, 2015)

CaptainCAVEMAN said:


> 1st vertical harvest
> 
> Kosher Tangie - about 30 sq.ft. of canopyView attachment 3416073
> View attachment 3416063
> ...


I LOVE your style. Congrats on the harvest and best of luck on the next round. Will you keep journaling?


----------



## greasemonkeymann (May 11, 2015)

CaptainCAVEMAN said:


> 1st vertical harvest
> 
> Kosher Tangie - about 30 sq.ft. of canopyView attachment 3416073
> View attachment 3416063
> ...


I am beyond fuckin impressed!
this is the most impressive vert grow I've seen in a looooong time, maybe the most impressive period.
BUT
man oh man....
my hands are cramping just thinking of the trimming...
WOW.
You are gonna pull a good 10-12 oz or *more* off that big girl


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (May 11, 2015)

elkamino said:


> I LOVE your style. Congrats on the harvest and best of luck on the next round. Will you keep journaling?


Thank you elk. Yes I'll keep updating from time to time.



greasemonkeymann said:


> I am beyond fuckin impressed!
> this is the most impressive vert grow I've seen in a looooong time, maybe the most impressive period.
> BUT
> man oh man....
> ...


Thanks man I appreciate the kind words.
This right side did take a long time to trim - my old job wouldn't give me another day off to trim so I quit and got a part time job. Now I have plenty of time to trim! HAHAHA!


----------



## greasemonkeymann (May 11, 2015)

CaptainCAVEMAN said:


> Thank you elk. Yes I'll keep updating from time to time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well shit man... it's a good thing you have time now... cuz you are gonna be busy...


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (May 15, 2015)

greasemonkeymann said:


> well shit man... it's a good thing you have time now... cuz you are gonna be busy...


Lol, it did take me awhile to trim those. I didn't do those right so it was a bunch of tiny buds - 367g. Now I know I need to thin them out better. I also think a light mover is the way to go to eliminate shading - I'll definitely be investing in those.

I want to mention that the materials I chose to make the rooms out of I would not recommend. Just get 2x4's, a door and drywall. Also, I have decided that if I want a FULL ring of bud I should use 3 or 4 plants.

Here's the left vertical that still only has 2 plants. While they are both huge, the ring still isn't full. This one is 2 weeks into flower. Critical Jack Herrer is pictured, and it's almost impossible take pics of the Punky Lion.



Here's the right vertical which is vegging now. Left is Martian Kush, center is Critical Jack Herrer, right is Silver Kush. The Martian Kush is already growing more compact than I'd like, so that will probably one of my mistakes this run. This is my first time running it and I should've run it through the horizontal first to see it's growth pattern. Maybe it'll turn out well yet. The sticky trap is only for detection, not a current problem.


----------



## ttystikk (May 15, 2015)

Just caught up with your journal, very nice!


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (May 19, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Just caught up with your journal, very nice!


Thanks man! Some of what I learned was in your thread, so double thanks!


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Jun 4, 2015)

Left Vertical is about 4 weeks into flower. this room only has 2 plants so I hooked up a bamboo stake and wire to move the bulb a few inches either way every other day. I hooked an oscillating fan up to it, but it burned the fan out in only 2 days. Now that I'll be running more plants this wont work.
Critical Jack Herrer



Punky Lion 

Right Vertical


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Jun 4, 2015)

Last post froze while posting. Right Vertical is 1st pic- Critical Jack Herrer right, Silver Kush left
Second pic is Martian Kush


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Jun 15, 2015)

Punky Lion


Critical Jack Herrer


Its really hard to get good pictures with the way these are set up.

I've also noticed that these frost up very nicely without any supplemental lighting - in my horizontal grow I put some MH with the HPS, I planned to do that with the vertical grows but I don't think I need to. Maybe because there is no glass to block the light.


----------



## elkamino (Jun 15, 2015)

CaptainCAVEMAN said:


> I've also noticed that these frost up very nicely without any supplemental lighting - in my horizontal grow I put some MH with the HPS, I planned to do that with the vertical grows but I don't think I need to.


I don't really understand- Are you saying you think your buds are frostier because the setup is barebulb? And that they get frostier with MH? Thanks.


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Jun 16, 2015)

elkamino said:


> I don't really understand- Are you saying you think your buds are frostier because the setup is barebulb? And that they get frostier with MH? Thanks.


I had always read a mixed spectrum was the best way to go, at a ratio of 2HPS/1MH

I guess when I started growing I went all out with as many lights and movers and as much co2 as I could buy and operate.

So this vertical is the first time I've grown with only HPS in flower and I'd say it's working just fine without MH added.

I've seen just how much stuff you CAN use to grow and now I'm being amazed at how well it can be done with just how little.


----------



## elkamino (Jun 19, 2015)

CaptainCAVEMAN said:


> I had always read a mixed spectrum was the best way to go, at a ratio of 2HPS/1MH
> 
> I guess when I started growing I went all out with as many lights and movers and as much co2 as I could buy and operate.
> 
> ...


Right on. I've just switched to vert myself and am excited to watch the girls take shapr


----------



## CaptainCAVEMAN (Jun 19, 2015)

Right on man! I hope you like it as much as I do. Got a journal for it?


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 27, 2015)

CaptainCAVEMAN said:


> I had always read a mixed spectrum was the best way to go, at a ratio of 2HPS/1MH
> 
> I guess when I started growing I went all out with as many lights and movers and as much co2 as I could buy and operate.
> 
> ...


I've found that 860W CDM lamps work as well as MH, have similar or even better spectrum, save a little power and last a lot longer. Downsides; vertical operating position only and magnetic ballast only.

A far as frost production goes, I think they produce on par with HPS thouies. I hang them up high if I'm running mixed lamps, the plants really like to aim for them.


----------

