# Hydroponics Question and Answer NewGrowth Style



## NewGrowth (Sep 21, 2008)

I have reading a lot of confusion with hydroponics systems, nutrients,ect. It is often difficult to answer people's questions about hydroponics after a thread has been hijacked and false information has been posted.
I thought I would start a thread where people could ask hydroponics questions. No question is dumb and if it is well I'll tell you. I will also not tolerate any myths or false information.
I'm certainly no expert but I have been growing for years with hydroponics and have set-up and help manage grow operations in quite a few places. One of the best ways for me to continue to learn is to answer your questions so POST AWAY!!


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## Secret Grower (Sep 22, 2008)

Is a TDS meter really important if your changing out your nutes every 2 weeks?


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## Phinxter (Sep 22, 2008)

what are the outside dimensions of a 900mm x 900mm ebb & flow tray in its stand ?
my tent is 990.6mm X 990.6MM X 2 meters LWH and i need to be sure the 
900mm X 900mm tray will fit in its stand.
and on a side note if i know how big it is over all i will know how much black berry jam and molasses to order to really make my buds superdankelicious
LOL sorry NG had to toss a couple myths in there


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## NewGrowth (Sep 22, 2008)

Secret Grower said:


> Is a TDS meter really important if your changing out your nutes every 2 weeks?


Yes a TDS or EC meter is important to accurately determine nutrient levels in your reservoir. Changing nutes every two weeks reduces the risk of pathogens in your reservoir and also allows you to maintain proper levels of N/P/K and micronutrients. Top off with fresh Ph adjusted fresh water between changes. Never add nutes between changes doing so can cause problems with nutrient lockout.



Phinxter said:


> what are the outside dimensions of a 900mm x 900mm ebb & flow tray in its stand ?
> my tent is 990.6mm X 990.6MM X 2 meters LWH and i need to be sure the
> 900mm X 900mm tray will fit in its stand.


They sell aluminum stands that fit right under the trays. I'm not sure if the 900mmx900mm measurement is inside or outside because there is a 1" lip that is used to support the trays in the stand. I would think with you tent measurements the trays with stands would fit fine, the tent walls are flexible too.



> and on a side note if i know how big it is over all i will know how much black berry jam and molasses to order to really make my buds superdankelicious
> LOL sorry NG had to toss a couple myths in there


I'll take a blackberry jam and bud sandwich on wheat. I think they sell those toasted at Quizno's its actually called the "Superdankelicious"


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## Secret Grower (Sep 23, 2008)

Are the correct levels usually printed on the nute bottles or is there a standard number to go by? I've been a dirt-bag for too long and am new to the hydro.

Thanks for all your input.


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## NewGrowth (Sep 23, 2008)

Secret Grower said:


> Are the correct levels usually printed on the nute bottles or is there a standard number to go by? I've been a dirt-bag for too long and am new to the hydro.
> 
> Thanks for all your input.


There are usually recommended levels printed on the bottle. Sometimes they provide good guidelines but often they don't for all strains, growing conditions, ect. It's a better practice to find a brand you like and stick with it.
I would recommend using the manufacturer recommended levels at 1/4 strength and slowly upping them depending on plant tolerance and growth rates ect.


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## Secret Grower (Sep 24, 2008)

Any nute recommendations for a newbie.

Do you recommend additives such as bcuzz?


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## NewGrowth (Sep 24, 2008)

Secret Grower said:


> Any nute recommendations for a newbie.


 You will find a different opinion on which nutes are the "best" from every hydro grower. I prefer two part nutrient systems (easier to mix) and I personally have used "Ionic" nutrients for years with great results.



> Do you recommend additives such as bcuzz?


 The only other additive I use is H202 35% 1.7mL/L. I have used humic acid additives and some bloom boosters before. I found that humic acid just left a residue in my reservoirs and bloom boosters caused burning early in flowering. If you want to use bloom boosters I would recommend their use only late in flowering (last 2 weeks). Don't use lots of additives however most are marketing scams and combining a lot of additives tends to cause more problems.


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## sllik (Oct 1, 2008)

My Babys are 3 weeks old
i didnt use nutes yet
Light : 18/6 under 430W Hps
Temperature: 81F
RH : 48%

My question is when do i start the 1/4 strengh Nutes ?


Thanks for the Thread


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## NewGrowth (Oct 1, 2008)

sllik said:


> My Babys are 3 weeks old
> i didnt use nutes yet
> Light : 18/6 under 430W Hps
> Temperature: 81F
> ...


 You can start now if you like, run 500 ppm and see how that works for you. They look good nice compact growth. What kind of nutes are you using?



> Thanks for the Thread


Thank you for smoking!


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## sllik (Oct 2, 2008)

Hi NewGrowth Thanks for the Advice and im gonna use 

Botanicare ure Blend (pro grow) 3-1.5-4
Botanicare ure Blend (Pro Bloom) 2.5-2-5


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## NewGrowth (Oct 2, 2008)

sllik said:


> Hi NewGrowth Thanks for the Advice and im gonna use
> 
> Botanicare ure Blend (pro grow) 3-1.5-4
> Botanicare ure Blend (Pro Bloom) 2.5-2-5


I'm not a fan of organic nutrients, I tried them in the past ended up with root rot, and lots of algae growth. After finding the right mix I found that they clogged my pumps, misters, ect. quickly and made cleaning more difficult. I switched back to Ionic and have never looked back. I prefer a nice sterile reservoir. I think organic belongs with soil not hydro. Make sure you are measuring your nutrient strength with a PPM/EC meter. Let me know how the organic hydro works out for you.


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## sllik (Oct 2, 2008)

ill put the 500 ppm tomorow


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## flipsidesw (Oct 2, 2008)

Sup dude!!

I have 9.0/ 250 ppm tap water. Would you use it?

I have thought about Ionic nutrients before.. I like the idea that u adjust ur NPK for diff stages. The only reason i never did was the guys a the hydro shop said they wont read on tds meters.. Nature netcar i think is the brand.

Have you ever used the Lucas formula?

For real dude i got an ass ton info i need to bounce off someone. This weekend im planning on build an aero cloner, 5x5 aero table, and a homemade nebulizer for constant fog in tha table. It would be hella easy if fog alone would work. It may even but i dont know so i am still planning on misters in the table.

I was thinking about just using lucas formula for gh and h2o2 @ 35%. No sauces.. Well liquid karma may sneek its way in there. Im kinda sold on it but i would like to know what gh alone can do.

Im hoping to get max yield out of 1000w hps with least amount of cost. I just dont have alot of experience. This will be my 4 time around. 

Ur thoughts on different watering systems?


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## flipsidesw (Oct 2, 2008)

U need to get the soil formula too. U need the superphosphates in the soil formula. It kinda stupid they did it like that but it IS a must.. U will lose lots of taste without it. Ur bud will still grow nice and fat with out it but it will be bland. O yea FYI their soil formula is actually made for hydro too. Doesnt make alot sense but it is what it is...


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## racer3456 (Oct 2, 2008)

How do you feel about adding a little h202 (capfull of the store grade 3%) every 3 days to a dwc system?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 2, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> Sup dude!!


Lots of stuff, I harvested my Arjan's Haze #1 and I am planing a small indoor for the winter with some Trainwreck from Greenhouse seeds. My California project is on track as well. 


> I have 9.0/ 250 ppm tap water. Would you use it?


I am surprised your tap water is so alkaline! Make sure you are reading the Ph correctly. I would still use that water the PPM is still pretty low and you can adjust the Ph.



> I have thought about Ionic nutrients before.. I like the idea that u adjust ur NPK for diff stages. The only reason i never did was the guys a the hydro shop said they wont read on tds meters.. Nature netcar i think is the brand.


Ionic reads fine on my bluelab truncheon.



> Have you ever used the Lucas formula?


Never used it sorry


> For real dude i got an ass ton info i need to bounce off someone. This weekend im planning on build an aero cloner, 5x5 aero table, and a homemade nebulizer for constant fog in tha table. It would be hella easy if fog alone would work. It may even but i dont know so i am still planning on misters in the table.


The fogger will work fine I have used them successfully with aero/DWC set ups. I made a couple for some med patients too. With clones the only requirement for root formation is high humidity and warm temps. An over saturated stem will rot. I think the fogger set up without misters will work just fine. Make sure you use the right size fogger however. I use this company myself. Ultrasonic Water Fogger-The Mist Maker



> I was thinking about just using lucas formula for gh and h2o2 @ 35%. No sauces.. Well liquid karma may sneek its way in there. Im kinda sold on it but i would like to know what gh alone can do.


Sounds like a good plan, I don't use additives myself and H2O2 does a great job at keeping you reservoir sterile. I use 35% @ 1.7ml/L in my reservoir.



> Im hoping to get max yield out of 1000w hps with least amount of cost. I just dont have alot of experience. This will be my 4 time around.
> 
> Ur thoughts on different watering systems?


Not sure what you mean, lots of ways to do hydroponics and each way has its pro's and con's. What kind of set-ups have you used in the past?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 2, 2008)

racer3456 said:


> How do you feel about adding a little h202 (capfull of the store grade 3%) every 3 days to a dwc system?


Good idea but probably not very effective at such low concentrations. I use 35% @ 1ml/L and add it every two weeks when I change out the reservoir.


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## flipsidesw (Oct 2, 2008)

U think a fogger be used soley in the 5x5 table? Wouldnt heat build up too high?

My run with MJ was in soil. Last 2 time was dwc. all where successfull. The last dwc was nice tho.. I got 5 oz of 2 plants vegged 3 weeks.. First dwc grow idid yielded around 3 but crackled when smoked and never really cured out right. 

Well ill tell you what i want from a system. First thing no media at any stage... Fastest grow rate with the least maintence. I liked dwc alot but aero seems like the way ill end up. Once i saw how easy it is to make a nebulizer out of fence post ive been hooked on the idea.. 

Do you know of a cheaper nutrient than gh flora? Have you ever messed with house and garden?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 2, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> U think a fogger be used soley in the 5x5 table? Wouldnt heat build up too high?


Ok bear with me here I've been smoking some haze 
Foggers don't add much heat from my experience. Yes I think the fogger alone would be more than effective. Did you look at my link?



> My run with MJ was in soil. Last 2 time was dwc. all where successfull. The last dwc was nice tho.. I got 5 oz of 2 plants vegged 3 weeks.. First dwc grow idid yielded around 3 but crackled when smoked and never really cured out right.
> 
> Well ill tell you what i want from a system. First thing no media at any stage... Fastest grow rate with the least maintence. I liked dwc alot but aero seems like the way ill end up. Once i saw how easy it is to make a nebulizer out of fence post ive been hooked on the idea..
> 
> Do you know of a cheaper nutrient than gh flora? Have you ever messed with house and garden?


Never even heard of house of garden, I really have been an Ionic guy for a while now. . . .
Ionic is pretty cheap though usually a better deal than Gh products.


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## flipsidesw (Oct 2, 2008)

How is that Arjan's ? I almost ordered some but im scared to grow haze. lol doesnt seem very grower friendly..

Do u use that nature nectar ionic nute?

Yea i already have one of those. And i did notice that it warms up after being on for awhile. 

Have you ran one before?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 2, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> How is that Arjan's ? I almost ordered some but im scared to grow haze. lol doesnt seem very grower friendly..


 I grew it outdoors, it was about seven feet at harvest time, I don't think I would grow this strain indoors.



> Do u use that nature nectar ionic nute?


No I use this 
The Ionic Hydro - Growth Technology 



> Yea i already have one of those. And i did notice that it warms up after being on for awhile.
> 
> Have you ran one before?


Yes I have run several foggers, the heat is minimal though.


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## flipsidesw (Oct 2, 2008)

Oh man your running foggers uh... How many foggers do you use? Nodes? Are they on timers? Or just run24/7... Do you recirculate? If so how? Drain to waste?

Do you have a pic or ur table?


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## flipsidesw (Oct 2, 2008)

You said ur where planning an indoor grow soon. What method do you plan to use?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 3, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> Oh man your running foggers uh... How many foggers do you use?


Last time I used foggers I built a small set-up for a med patient. It was a 30gal rubbermaid, an air stone, 12 3" net pots and one small fogger.


> Nodes? Are they on timers? Or just run24/7... Do you recirculate? If so how? Drain to waste?


Not sure what you mean by "Nodes?" I run the foggers 24/7. No recirculation, just a rubbermaid tub it is more of a DWC/aero cross, see above post.



> Do you have a pic or ur table?


I wish I had a pic, currently I am not running an indoor grow. I have done a wide range of hydro grows though. From small closet set ups to large indoor set ups. My favorite set up was VERY similar to Al B's in Manhattan. Four flood tables for a perpetual harvest. Two 1000w hps.



flipsidesw said:


> You said ur where planning an indoor grow soon. What method do you plan to use?


Very small indoor grow. I just finished an outdoor grow and it yielded 6.5 lbs dry. I am going to be moving again soon so i don't want anything large. My small winter grow will be Trainwreck from Greenhouse. I am just going to use a homebox xs and stick with soil and a air cooled 400w HPS. My hydro equipment is still packed in boxes in one of those POD's and I don't want to spend the money to have the POD delivered because I can't even make use of all that equipment with my current living conditions. 
BTW if you ever need to move a large grow these thing make it easy! PODS - Reinventing Moving and Storage > Home


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## flipsidesw (Oct 3, 2008)

Do you think there is gonna be yield diff between say ebb and flow and fog/aeroponic? assuming they where both under the same conditions. Say u wher gonna run 5 1ks horizontal. What hydro system would you build for it. 

I was gonna do something similiar to AL's. I still may. Well actually the only thing i may do diff is watering system. 

Im reall baked so srry this is so choppy.


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## NewGrowth (Oct 3, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> Do you think there is gonna be yield diff between say ebb and flow and fog/aeroponic? assuming they where both under the same conditions.


If set up and managed properly there should be no difference in yield between systems. Aeroponic systems make it hard to achieve the same plant density you can in an ebb and flow, the benefit is the increased vigor you get with aero.



> Say u wher gonna run 5 1ks horizontal. What hydro system would you build for it.


 I really like flood tables for their ease of use, but if you want to grow trees check out the bucket system.



> I was gonna do something similiar to AL's. I still may. Well actually the only thing i may do diff is watering system.


Still not sure what you mean by watering system but nothing beats a flood table as far as simplicity and ease of operation.



> Im reall baked so srry this is so choppy.


No worries bro I've been smoking that haze myself


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## flipsidesw (Oct 3, 2008)

By watering systems i mean different i mean dwc, aero,nft, ebb and flow etc. 

I just want the best yeilding hydro system under a 1000w horizontal.

how many plants do you think you could fit on 3x3 flood table? Do you think if i went for 36 which is 4 per sq ft, do you think i could get an oz off of each? What smallest pot size i can use for flowering clones on a flood table?

Thanks for the help bro.!


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## NewGrowth (Oct 3, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> By watering systems i mean different i mean dwc, aero,nft, ebb and flow etc.


Ok I got you now 



> I just want the best yeilding hydro system under a 1000w horizontal.


I prefer flood tables myself, yield will be more dependent on plant size (veg time), strain, and how well you manage your grow.



> how many plants do you think you could fit on 3x3 flood table? Do you think if i went for 36 which is 4 per sq ft, do you think i could get an oz off of each? What smallest pot size i can use for flowering clones on a flood table?


Depends on the size of the plants, I think you could easily get an oz off each plant. The smallest "pot size" I would recommend would be 6" rockwool cubes placed directly on the table and covered in plastic. The downside to doing this is you can not move your plants once the roots become entangled. If you used 8" pots you should be able to fit at least 20-22 plants on a 3x3 table. If you are doing smaller clones you can go with higher plant numbers and get a higher over all yield. If you use larger clones you can have less plants and get more yield per plant (probably closer to the oz pre plant you are looking for). Trade offs with each . . .



> Thanks for the help bro.!


For sure bro


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## flipsidesw (Oct 3, 2008)

Well roots becoming entangled doesnt scare me too much because i wouldnt really need to move them once they are that big.

Ok this is where i got lost with another grower.. Wtf happens to the roots once the rockwool is overgrown. I mean wont they be sticking out the bottom and end being exposed to my lighting? Can i do this with out clay pebbles.


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## NewGrowth (Oct 3, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> Well roots becoming entangled doesnt scare me too much because i wouldnt really need to move them once they are that big.
> 
> Ok this is where i got lost with another grower.. Wtf happens to the roots once the rockwool is overgrown. I mean wont they be sticking out the bottom and end being exposed to my lighting? Can i do this with out clay pebbles.


Yes that is why I cover the cubes with panda plastic and just cut holes for the stems. No need for hydroton, did an ak-47/white widow grow with the 6" cubes. You will have to run string between the plants to tie them for support however because the rockwool cubes will not support them very well past 1ft of growth.


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## flipsidesw (Oct 3, 2008)

Panda plastic?

Im still leaning toward aero or nft type systems. I just dont want have to buy new media for every grow. I guess i would sacrifice one or two less plants to achieve. This is what i meant by cheapest grow under 1000w. More initial start up but once built it should be self sufficient. Only thing to run out of is nutrients.. Maybe replace some misters but thats about it. I wouldnt have to get pots or nothing.


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## growinman (Oct 3, 2008)

Hey there, NewGrowth!! Great thread you've started---and I am learning a lot from your conversation with flipsides!

Can you tell me how many times you'd flood the table your talking about-- I mean I know it would vary due to growth, etc., but isn't overwatering the rw hard to not do? That's what really scared me away from rockwool is the overwatering risks in any situation.... I have rooted clones right now in rw plugs I was going to put inside hydroton in net pots for an AF20.....but now I am starting again and rooting in a dwc cloner, then to the hydroton.......
My original plan was to use just rockwool, in an AF20 and a table---just scared of overwatering and not being able to keep fresh nutes and o2 available....

Thanks


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## NewGrowth (Oct 3, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> Panda plastic?


Just a thick plastic used to line grow room walls, floor, ect. It is black on one side and white on the other to prevent any light penetration. 
Hydroponic Extras - Accessories and fittings



> Im still leaning toward aero or nft type systems. I just dont want have to buy new media for every grow. I guess i would sacrifice one or two less plants to achieve. This is what i meant by cheapest grow under 1000w. More initial start up but once built it should be self sufficient. Only thing to run out of is nutrients.. Maybe replace some misters but thats about it. I wouldnt have to get pots or nothing.


Go for it bro. There are trade offs with each system, aero/NFT systems tend to get clogged a lot and have to be closely monitored, also if you have a power failure your plants could die within hours if not hand watered.



growinman said:


> Can you tell me how many times you'd flood the table your talking about-- I mean I know it would vary due to growth, etc., but isn't overwatering the rw hard to not do? That's what really scared me away from rockwool is the overwatering risks in any situation.... I have rooted clones right now in rw plugs I was going to put inside hydroton in net pots for an AF20.....but now I am starting again and rooting in a dwc cloner, then to the hydroton.......
> My original plan was to use just rockwool, in an AF20 and a table---just scared of overwatering and not being able to keep fresh nutes and o2 available....


You are correct rockwool holds a lot of water and can easily become over saturated. Once the plants get larger and the roots migrate out of the rockwool cubes it becomes less of a problem. For small clones in rockwool only I flood the table once a day right after lights on and only flood to about 1/2" up the cubes. When the plants get larger up to twice a day during lights on only and still just 1/2" up the 6" cubes. It also depends on the number of plants in a 4x4 tray for the AK-47/White Widow grow we packed close to 50 plants onto a 4x4 tray with 6" cubes. When the plants matured we were flooding much more often and for longer periods as the plants quickly sucked up the water. I prefer to run pots with hydroton and rockwool however because you can move your plants around. I am going to look into using fytocell next time around though.


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## flipsidesw (Oct 4, 2008)

Hey what up man!!

I got a question for ya. OK i have a reflector to 5' of venting to my 270cfm fan to 2' more venting to exhaust port. Can i stick a carbon filter on the other side of the exhaust port? Can carbon filter work in conjunction with light cooling or is that to much? Hope this makes sense.


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## NewGrowth (Oct 5, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> Hey what up man!!
> 
> I got a question for ya. OK i have a reflector to 5' of venting to my 270cfm fan to 2' more venting to exhaust port. Can i stick a carbon filter on the other side of the exhaust port? Can carbon filter work in conjunction with light cooling or is that to much? Hope this makes sense.


Depends on the fans static pressure. Some fans such as duct boosters have low static pressure and can only push air through short lengths of duct. Blower type fans have a higher static pressure and can move air through longer lengths of duct work. CFM rating alone is not enough to determine. I have found carbon filters work better when you pull air through them rather than push.


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## flipsidesw (Oct 5, 2008)

I dont know what the static pressure is.. Its a 6'' Can Fan. 

I wanna try this skunk #1 but i heard it stinks more than most. So im getting something get rid of the smell. I dont really have the space for another fan and a scrubber.. 

Any advice on odor control?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 5, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> I dont know what the static pressure is.. Its a 6'' Can Fan.


 Here is a good chart Can Fan - Inline Fans the problem is I am not a mechanical engineer and I have no idea how to estimate how much static pressure is created by your filter and all that duct work. I can tell you that from that chart can fans are able to handle pretty high levels of static pressure (.5" is getting high) without too much reduction in airflow. Your 270 cfm fan only drops to 185 cfm at .5". With that knowledge (once agin not a mechanical engineer here) I would assume that your fan would be effective in cooling up to two 1000 w lights even with the filter and all that duct work attached. Just a semi-educated guess though 



> I wanna try this skunk #1 but i heard it stinks more than most. So im getting something get rid of the smell. I dont really have the space for another fan and a scrubber..
> Any advice on odor control?


Your carbon filter alone will not handle the smell? Carbon filters are by far the most effective means of eliminating odors. Ozone is close behind.


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## caddyluck (Oct 5, 2008)

Hey New Growth! I'm on my first hydro grow and am 35 days into flower. My PPM is around 1300, what is a "typical" PPM # for flowering? I'm using GH 3-part Flora Series using the "agressive bloom" dose. They vegged for 6-7 weeks and did well under the "agressive growth" dose @ 1600PPM. Also, would it be worth it on my next grow to use Liquid Koolbloom? Thanks!


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## flipsidesw (Oct 5, 2008)

I dont have the scrubber yet. Didnt wanna throw down the cash unless i had a better feeling that i would work. The guy at hydro shop said it wouldnt work but I honestly felt he didnt know what he was talking about. Also he was charging 310 for 6'' can with scrubber. Anyways Ozone is my last resort. 

Do you know of any cheap places for carbon scrubbers?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 5, 2008)

caddyluck said:


> Hey New Growth! I'm on my first hydro grow and am 35 days into flower. My PPM is around 1300, what is a "typical" PPM # for flowering? I'm using GH 3-part Flora Series using the "agressive bloom" dose. They vegged for 6-7 weeks and did well under the "agressive growth" dose @ 1600PPM.


Can be very strain dependent, some strains like AK-47 are nutrient sensitive while others like more. I would say the max I have seen is around 1800 PPM. A good way to see if your plants are utilizing the nutes is to monitor your PPM level ever day or so. 
Here are some general rules:
1.Water level drops PPM goes up: Drop your nutrient strength in relationship to the PPM rise. 
2. Water level drops PPM stays the same: You may be able to fine tune you nutrient strength, if growth is vigorous leave it alone.
3. Water level drops PPM drops: Raise you nutrient strength in relationship too PPM drop.
Like I said these are only general rules always monitor your plants growth and look for tell tale signs of nutrient burn like deep green fan leaves and yellow leaf tips. Nutrient deficient plats will usually yellow from the bottom up. Keep a journal,this will help you fine tune, waste less nutrients and improve your grow next time around.



> Also, would it be worth it on my next grow to use Liquid Koolbloom? Thanks!


I'm not a fan of lots of additives, you can try it though. My experience with GH nutes is limited, I have used Ionic for a long time now and am kind of stuck in my ways.



flipsidesw said:


> I dont have the scrubber yet. Didnt wanna throw down the cash unless i had a better feeling that i would work. The guy at hydro shop said it wouldnt work but I honestly felt he didnt know what he was talking about.


Ask him why it would not work, if he can't give you a good answer ask his return policy. If they have a good policy then just buy it if it does not work return it.  Dayton or other blower type fans are more capable of moving air through duct work however so you might look into using one of them. 



> Also he was charging 310 for 6'' can with scrubber. Anyways Ozone is my last resort.
> Do you know of any cheap places for carbon scrubbers?


Look up DIY scrubbers, activated carbon is pretty cheap and I have seen a few good designs online. The other possibility is to make your own corona discharge type ozone generator.


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## growinman (Oct 5, 2008)

NewGrowth said:


> You are correct rockwool holds a lot of water and can easily become over saturated. Once the plants get larger and the roots migrate out of the rockwool cubes it becomes less of a problem. For small clones in rockwool only I flood the table once a day right after lights on and only flood to about 1/2" up the cubes. When the plants get larger up to twice a day during lights on only and still just 1/2" up the 6" cubes. It also depends on the number of plants in a 4x4 tray for the AK-47/White Widow grow we packed close to 50 plants onto a 4x4 tray with 6" cubes. When the plants matured we were flooding much more often and for longer periods as the plants quickly sucked up the water. I prefer to run pots with hydroton and rockwool however because you can move your plants around. I am going to look into using fytocell next time around though.


I dont know if I thanked you the other day for your quick reply. THANKS very much and just what I am going to do this first run-----

growinman


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## NewGrowth (Oct 5, 2008)

growinman said:


> I dont know if I thanked you the other day for your quick reply. THANKS very much and just what I am going to do this first run-----
> growinman


No problem! Keep us updated, good luck!


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## mayan (Oct 5, 2008)

Hi NewGrowth...this is a wonderful service for all of us. Really informative thanks!!

My seedlings are about 11 days old, growing in rapid rooter plugs. I just put them under 400w yesterday. The roots are getting well established. My question is whether it's ok to put them into the reservoir system at this point. I have a DWC system that has a 14 hole tray that sits on top of two reservoirs that continually circulates the nutes. It will take some days, probably for the roots to work through the netpots and hit the res. If they are ready to go in, should I have 1/4 strength nutes for when the roots hit? Or will it still be too soon? Again, thanks for your sage wisdom. Or haze wisdom.


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## NewGrowth (Oct 5, 2008)

mayan said:


> Hi NewGrowth...this is a wonderful service for all of us. Really informative thanks!!


The more people that have the info the better! Grow more pot and overgrow the government! Plus I'm learning too so its all good!



> My seedlings are about 11 days old, growing in rapid rooter plugs. I just put them under 400w yesterday. The roots are getting well established. My question is whether it's ok to put them into the reservoir system at this point.


Go for it! You may still have to hand water a bit but try to keep it to a minimum this will encourage your roots to migrate downward seeking out water.



> I have a DWC system that has a 14 hole tray that sits on top of two reservoirs that continually circulates the nutes. It will take some days, probably for the roots to work through the netpots and hit the res. If they are ready to go in, should I have 1/4 strength nutes for when the roots hit? Or will it still be too soon?


Is this one of those so called "bubbleponics" set ups with the combined drip/DWC system? Try running the nutes at 500 ppm and see how your plants respond. You should be safe at these levels. 



> Again, thanks for your sage wisdom. Or haze wisdom.


Not a sage for sure, I still have plenty to learn and grow.


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## mayan (Oct 5, 2008)

Hey NewGrowth...thanks so much!!

This is my first grow in about five years and I'm trying to relearn whatever knowledge I scrimped together the first time.

The hyrdro system that I use is basically two reservoirs stacked on top of one another and the 14 hole tray that sits on top of the upper reservoir. A pump in the bottom res continually pumps liquid into the top res and a drain hole in the top continually regulates the height. Hence, there is nute solution at all times in both reservoirs. If I remember correctly, the nute levels are kept right below the bottom of the net pots. And the roots are in...hopefully...well oxygenated water for the entire grow.


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## NewGrowth (Oct 5, 2008)

mayan said:


> Hey NewGrowth...thanks so much!!
> 
> This is my first grow in about five years and I'm trying to relearn whatever knowledge I scrimped together the first time.
> 
> The hyrdro system that I use is basically two reservoirs stacked on top of one another and the 14 hole tray that sits on top of the upper reservoir. A pump in the bottom res continually pumps liquid into the top res and a drain hole in the top continually regulates the height. Hence, there is nute solution at all times in both reservoirs. If I remember correctly, the nute levels are kept right below the bottom of the net pots. And the roots are in...hopefully...well oxygenated water for the entire grow.


Ok its more of a drip/NFT system then kind of like a bucket system. Sounds good let me know how it works out for you.


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## mayan (Oct 5, 2008)

Actually isn't it more of a deep water culture because the roots are always sitting in a tub of nutes? Of course, I don't know my ass from elbow around some of this nomenclature. I should add that 5 years ago I did about three grows. Each one was better than the next. So I think this system works well as long as the pump holds out , the roots don't clog any of the drains, and I can resist getting too fancy. Of course, alot of my knowledge has evaporated like the dew on summer grass. Alas. But it's coming back quick.


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## NewGrowth (Oct 5, 2008)

mayan said:


> Actually isn't it more of a deep water culture because the roots are always sitting in a tub of nutes?


A DWC (Deep Water Cultivation) is not recirculating it is simply an aerated nutrient solution that contains the root mass, this system requires no seperate reservoir. An NFT (Nutrient Film Technique) is a constantly recirculated nutrient solution, the solution is aerated by constant recirculation and an air pump is often incorporated into the reservoir. The roots are always kept in the solution in a NFT or timers may be used to increase root zone oxygenation. A drip system usually incorporates an absorbent media and pumps are timed at specific intervals to water the plants.
A dutch bucket system incorporates both drip and NFT techniques usually to allow for larger plants. Your system sounds more like something along these lines.
Do you have an air pump in your primary reservoir? If not it may be advisable to add one to further oxygenate your nutrient solution.


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## mayan (Oct 5, 2008)

Yes...I have the pump capacity for six airstones although I am lately led to believe that this may be overkill. Apparently, the water can only oxygenate just so much via the airstones, or something like that...and the recirculation also provides oxygenation. I may cut down to two in each tank.

BTW, what is the "film" in NFT? Aside from my not understanding what that is, what you describe seems spot on.


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## NewGrowth (Oct 6, 2008)

mayan said:


> Yes...I have the pump capacity for six airstones although I am lately led to believe that this may be overkill. Apparently, the water can only oxygenate just so much via the airstones, or something like that...and the recirculation also provides oxygenation. I may cut down to two in each tank.
> BTW, what is the "film" in NFT? Aside from my not understanding what that is, what you describe seems spot on.


Don't hold me to this but I believe the term "film" is used because in these systems part of the root mass is suspended in air and the rest is submerged in a thin "film" like layer of recirculating nutrient solution. You could test different methods with you system to achieve maximum root zone oxygenation. You could try putting you pump on a timer and running it at intervals. H202 works well for both sterilizing and oxygenation. Lots of air stones is good, a turbulent reservoir tends to discourage pathogen and algae growth further. I don't know if you would really need 6 stones depends on the size of your reservoir.


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## mayan (Oct 6, 2008)

Hey NewGrowth, thanks for the explanation. You've given me food for thought. I don't mean to spam your thread here but I have a couple of more questions, one that stems from your recent description. The other is a bit more generic.

1) Do you think it makes a difference how much of the root is in the water and how much is exposed to air? My recollection from five years ago is that most of the root - except for maybe an inch or two - was in the nutrient stock. There were about three or four airstones keeping them company. I think that's what the system was designed for although it is probably a Model T compared to some of the Ferraris that I've seen discussed here. Root growth was prolific and the plants were, for the most part, healthy. At the same time, if exposure to more air would be helpful, I'd contemplate modifying my grow.

2) At this point, my seedlings are about 11 or 12 days old. The roots are established. They have been under the 400w for two days. It is currently about 2feet above their tops...I can feel no heat with my hand. Do you have any suggestions for lowering the light? Should I do it in one swell foop or should I lower the height to top ratio gradually? About how high above the top should the light be when all the dialing in is over. I know about the hand test...I just want to get a sense of what the average distance should be. It's a PL reflector and is not air cooled. 

(Aww, hell...as long as I'm one stop shopping maybe you could also remind me as to whether the valves in the piping from the airpumps are supposed to go in the water or whether they just kinda hang there, out side of the res. I've plumb forgot.)
Thanks so much!!!


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## NewGrowth (Oct 6, 2008)

mayan said:


> Hey NewGrowth, thanks for the explanation. You've given me food for thought. I don't mean to spam your thread here but I have a couple of more questions, one that stems from your recent description. The other is a bit more generic.
> 1) Do you think it makes a difference how much of the root is in the water and how much is exposed to air? My recollection from five years ago is that most of the root - except for maybe an inch or two - was in the nutrient stock. There were about three or four airstones keeping them company. I think that's what the system was designed for although it is probably a Model T compared to some of the Ferraris that I've seen discussed here. Root growth was prolific and the plants were, for the most part, healthy. At the same time, if exposure to more air would be helpful, I'd contemplate modifying my grow.


Has not been to much change in hydro systems designs and I would say if it is not broken don't fix it. The suspended roots should provide more than enough oxygen. It should not matter much how much of the root mass is suspended as long as they are kept in a high humidity environment so they don't dry out. Its a bad sign if the roots get woody, this will happen to some extent with the larger tap roots but the smaller roots should develop little "hairs".



> 2) At this point, my seedlings are about 11 or 12 days old. The roots are established. They have been under the 400w for two days. It is currently about 2feet above their tops...I can feel no heat with my hand. Do you have any suggestions for lowering the light? Should I do it in one swell foop or should I lower the height to top ratio gradually? About how high above the top should the light be when all the dialing in is over. I know about the hand test...I just want to get a sense of what the average distance should be. It's a PL reflector and is not air cooled.


Without an air-cooled hood the light will need to be a bit further away. I will put an air cooled 1000w HPS 14" away from the tops. I would do as you said and slowly lower your light do you don't overheat your young seedlings. I'm sure you could safely get an uncooled 400w HPS within 14" of the plant tops when they are more mature.



> (Aww, hell...as long as I'm one stop shopping maybe you could also remind me as to whether the valves in the piping from the airpumps are supposed to go in the water or whether they just kinda hang there, out side of the res. I've plumb forgot.)
> Thanks so much!!!


Leave the valves outside, the only thing you need in the reservoir is the air stone.


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## mayan (Oct 6, 2008)

Great! Thanks!! I'm sure I'll be seeing ya in a bit. You've been exceedingly helpful.


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## sllik (Oct 6, 2008)

Hi NewGroth i have a little question
should i put some hydroton around my nets
to protect the roots from the light and heat ?

they seem to burn once they try to go out from the net...
i hope you understand me


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## NewGrowth (Oct 7, 2008)

sllik said:


> Hi NewGroth i have a little question
> should i put some hydroton around my nets
> to protect the roots from the light and heat ?
> they seem to burn once they try to go out from the net...
> i hope you understand me


Might be a good idea or you could put those pots in larger regular pots. I use regular pots (as opposed to net pots) on the flood table for this reason.


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## swishatwista (Oct 10, 2008)

Hey NewGrowth, Thanks for opening the new thread, its been real helpful. Iv been planing my 1st grow for about 2 weeks now and i plan to start it in about 10 days when i get my seeds from the mail. At first i was going to do a soil grow, but hydro just seems alot more sensible. I plan to grow out enough clones to do a sog, but im not quite sure how to start them off. I plan to do a sog table with a DWC, but im not sure the materials id need, you think you could shed some light on my situation?
Thanks


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## NewGrowth (Oct 10, 2008)

swishatwista said:


> Hey NewGrowth, Thanks for opening the new thread, its been real helpful. Iv been planing my 1st grow for about 2 weeks now and i plan to start it in about 10 days when i get my seeds from the mail. At first i was going to do a soil grow, but hydro just seems alot more sensible. I plan to grow out enough clones to do a sog, but im not quite sure how to start them off. I plan to do a sog table with a DWC, but im not sure the materials id need, you think you could shed some light on my situation?
> Thanks


Are you building your own DWC set up? There are many ways to do this so it is difficult to answer your question without writing at least a page. This link provides a good basic overview of different hydroponics systems. Simply Hydroponics - System types

Check this one out too:
put together a homemade hydroponics system that works

Provide me with more details such as:
1. Size of grow space
2. Number of plants
3.Budget

Do a little more research and come back with some more specific questions. I will be happy to answer them for you.


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## swishatwista (Oct 11, 2008)

o, yea sorry NG, ill be growing in a total space about about 4.5 ft by 3.5.(Its gonna be a box, about 5 ft tall. I wouldnt mind growing 16 plants each grow with sog and hope/plan on getting about an oz each plant. Im going to be using a Flouro, or CFL( i had the impression that they're the same kind of light) and will be using a 600w hps to take the clones into flowering when they root. I'm going to be using a DWC grow, with a reservior, and air pump. I probably wouldnt be able to get 16 plants with the average rubermade container, but i think i might try to either make my own combining two and just bonding them together some how, or try to find one bigger then the normal ones. I am on a budget but i think i can afford all the essentials for the grow. I'm going garage saling tomorow in hopes to find some good hydro materials. As for ventalation, i plan on having 4 or 5, 6'' fans. One is gonna be pushing air in and one will be sucking air out. im probably gonna have a carbon filter attacked to the fan sucking out. And the other 2 or 3 fans will be circulating air inside the box? I also think im going to cool my lighting by having a reflector with a hole( i may cut the hole myself) and have the fan sucking out attacked to it via some small vent. tubing. I have a few other details about nutes, but i also have some questions about using h2o2 to keep the reservoir sterile. What do you think HG?
And also, do you think i 
Should i grow in 8'' Rockwool?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 11, 2008)

swishatwista said:


> o, yea sorry NG, ill be growing in a total space about about 4.5 ft by 3.5.(Its gonna be a box, about 5 ft tall. I wouldnt mind growing 16 plants each grow with sog and hope/plan on getting about an oz each plant. Im going to be using a Flouro, or CFL( i had the impression that they're the same kind of light) and will be using a 600w hps to take the clones into flowering when they root.


So flouros for your mothers and 600W for flowering?



> I'm going to be using a DWC grow, with a reservior, and air pump. I probably wouldnt be able to get 16 plants with the average rubermade container, but i think i might try to either make my own combining two and just bonding them together some how, or try to find one bigger then the normal ones.


Not sure on the dimensions of rubbermaids you might want to find out to see what you can fit into that space. I put 12 plants in a 30 gal before, it was a tight fit though.



> I am on a budget but i think i can afford all the essentials for the grow. I'm going garage saling tomorow in hopes to find some good hydro materials. As for ventalation, i plan on having 4 or 5, 6'' fans. One is gonna be pushing air in and one will be sucking air out. im probably gonna have a carbon filter attacked to the fan sucking out. And the other 2 or 3 fans will be circulating air inside the box?


Good luck, you live in Canada? I have yet to see hydro equipment at a garage sale but you might find something, let me know what you find. Probably only need one or two fans to circulate air in that space. For exhaust/intake you should only need one or two fans rated at least 80cfm (higher if pulling through a carbon filter or you have a lot of duct worK) for your estimated 78 cubic foot grow space.



> I also think im going to cool my lighting by having a reflector with a hole( i may cut the hole myself) and have the fan sucking out attacked to it via some small vent. tubing.


Cool tubes are more efficient, air cooled reflectors tend to radiate heat back into the grow space. Check out making you own for the budget minded pick up a "bake around tube" on e-bay or if you are lucky you will find one at a garage sale.



> I have a few other details about nutes, but i also have some questions about using h2o2 to keep the reservoir sterile. What do you think HG?


Ask away . . .



> And also, do you think i
> Should i grow in 8'' Rockwool?


Not in a DWC set up, the rockwool mill become over saturated and cause root rot. Use 1" cubes for your cuttings in net pots with hydroton for a DWC system.


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## ovechkin8 (Oct 11, 2008)

Hi newgrowth my question is how long do the roots grow before the seedling will pop up when growing from seed?

my roots are like 2 inches long with no seedling yet?


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## swishatwista (Oct 11, 2008)

Yea, fluro's for my mothers and the hps for my clones. Should i start out my clones with the fluro until the root and i take them into flowering? 
But about the fans, i always heard that circulation is very important, but ill take your advice and subtract one or two from the plans. And i may also just do 9-12 plants on the rubermaid, but again im not sure if im gonna just try to find a bigger one or try to combine two, it'd be a bitch though. But no i live in the US, but i have a good local flea market close by now that i think about it, so ill hit it up looking for air pumps, containers, and other potential growing materials. I plan on using the "ionic" brand hydro nutes. Iv heard good things about them so it should work for me


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## protopipe1 (Oct 11, 2008)

Hey NewGrowth! 
I have a question regarding nutes. I am using Dutch Master Advance Grow (A & B) and Zone in my hydo steup. I also foliar feed every other day with Liquid Light. I have 2 fem Seedism BLZ Bud seedlings and 2 fem Barney's Farm Red Diesel seedlings that got their first light nutes last week. I put 30ml of Advanced Grow A & B (each) and 5ml of the Zone. My tap water tds is 210 with a ph of 7.2. 
I have read that you like Ionic nutes in your posts. Should I switch to Ionic for the Fogponic/bubbler set up? I can use the Dutch Master nutes in a 10 gallon drip hydro set up that I also have in my Homebox S tent. I am growing 6 auto Lowllife fem AK47s in the 10 gal set up, under a 400 watt MH/HPS. The other set up in my tent is under 6 Grow CFLS w/30,000 lumens. I have the 400 watt exhausted into my closet attic with a 442 CFM fan. 
Sorry so much info, but I am a detail freak! I am growing the 6 AK 47s and when I finish with harvesting, I want to take clones from the BLZ Buds and Red Diesels (I have an 8 site Daisy cloner). I will flower the 8 clones in the 10 gallon set up, and flower the other 4 plants in the 6 gallon set up. 
Well, I know the more you know about my grow the easier it is to give an answer. Thanks again for all of your help, NewGrowth! I see you are growing some Trainwreck seeds out next! Sounds like a wild ride! I just ordered 5 fem Dutch Quality White Shark seeds and 5 Mazari Skunk seeds, along with 5 fem C9 Jack seeds. I will be growing the White Shark and Jack (I like their 7 week flowering period). Well if you get a chance let me know about Ionic nutes! protopipe1


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## NewGrowth (Oct 11, 2008)

ovechkin8 said:


> Hi newgrowth my question is how long do the roots grow before the seedling will pop up when growing from seed?
> my roots are like 2 inches long with no seedling yet?


How deep did you plant them? What did you plant them in?



swishatwista said:


> Yea, fluro's for my mothers and the hps for my clones. Should i start out my clones with the fluro until the root and i take them into flowering?


Yes its a good idea to start clones under flouros, check out the cloning info in the grow FAQ too. Lots of methods to choose from . . . .



> But about the fans, i always heard that circulation is very important, but ill take your advice and subtract one or two from the plans.


You are correct ventilation is very important to maintain a healthy grow environment. But one fan with an adequate CFM rating makes more sense than 3-4 fans.



> And i may also just do 9-12 plants on the rubermaid, but again im not sure if im gonna just try to find a bigger one or try to combine two, it'd be a bitch though.


Go for it!



> But no i live in the US, but i have a good local flea market close by now that i think about it, so ill hit it up looking for air pumps, containers, and other potential growing materials. I plan on using the "ionic" brand hydro nutes. Iv heard good things about them so it should work for me


I use Ionic nutes myself, one of the few people that does. They have worked great for me though.



protopipe1 said:


> Hey NewGrowth!
> I have a question regarding nutes. I am using Dutch Master Advance Grow (A & B) and Zone in my hydo steup. I also foliar feed every other day with Liquid Light. I have 2 fem Seedism BLZ Bud seedlings and 2 fem Barney's Farm Red Diesel seedlings that got their first light nutes last week. I put 30ml of Advanced Grow A & B (each) and 5ml of the Zone. My tap water tds is 210 with a ph of 7.2.
> I have read that you like Ionic nutes in your posts. Should I switch to Ionic for the Fogponic/bubbler set up?


I have no problem with other nutrient brands, I'm not a spokesman for Ionic. They are just what I have used and am comfortable with using. With a fogger you definitely want a nutrient that dissolves well and has no organic components. Sediment from certain nutrients will build up on the fogger disc as will organic matter. If you are comfortable with Dutch master nutes stick with them. 



> I can use the Dutch Master nutes in a 10 gallon drip hydro set up that I also have in my Homebox S tent. I am growing 6 auto Lowllife fem AK47s in the 10 gal set up, under a 400 watt MH/HPS. The other set up in my tent is under 6 Grow CFLS w/30,000 lumens. I have the 400 watt exhausted into my closet attic with a 442 CFM fan.
> Sorry so much info, but I am a detail freak!


Its all good so am I when it comes to growing! Plus its very hard to answer vague questions like: "Whats wrong with my plant? The leaves are yellow!" I almost always leave these questions alone when I find them.



> I am growing the 6 AK 47s and when I finish with harvesting, I want to take clones from the BLZ Buds and Red Diesels (I have an 8 site Daisy cloner). I will flower the 8 clones in the 10 gallon set up, and flower the other 4 plants in the 6 gallon set up.
> Well, I know the more you know about my grow the easier it is to give an answer. Thanks again for all of your help, NewGrowth!


No problem bro, I'm a big fan of diesel I grew Sour Diesel for a bit in NYC.



> I see you are growing some Trainwreck seeds out next! Sounds like a wild ride! I just ordered 5 fem Dutch Quality White Shark seeds and 5 Mazari Skunk seeds, along with 5 fem C9 Jack seeds. I will be growing the White Shark and Jack (I like their 7 week flowering period). Well if you get a chance let me know about Ionic nutes! protopipe1


Actually they sent me K-train seeds instead of the Trainwreck So now I'm growing them. I want to try out white shark myself . . .
Once again not a spokesman for Ionic, they just work for me. If you have any specific questions about them I would be happy to answer though.


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## protopipe1 (Oct 12, 2008)

Your answers were just what I needed. I like your open minded approach to growing...very positive way of looking at things (which is my way too!).
I will stay with the Dutch Master nutes for now, but I think when they run out I will try an experiment and use DM in one hydro and Ionic in the other. I am definitely the scientific type who likes to try different methods (like you!). To me that is the only way to gain true insight. Some people get set in there ways and anything that goes against their way is wrong to them! They need to keep an open mind!
I think you will enjoy the K Train, couch-locked all day! I will keep you updated on my growing (I would start a journal, but I still haven't figured out how to download pics to the site as I am a lttle tech challenged!). Have a great day NewGrowth! protopipe1


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## NewGrowth (Oct 12, 2008)

protopipe1 said:


> Your answers were just what I needed. I like your open minded approach to growing...very positive way of looking at things (which is my way too!).
> I will stay with the Dutch Master nutes for now, but I think when they run out I will try an experiment and use DM in one hydro and Ionic in the other. I am definitely the scientific type who likes to try different methods (like you!). To me that is the only way to gain true insight. Some people get set in there ways and anything that goes against their way is wrong to them! They need to keep an open mind!


Glad to hear proto, there are a lot of myths an opinions in the growing community. The best thing to have is a critical/scientific mind. Let me know what happens when you use these two nutes side by side.



> I think you will enjoy the K Train, couch-locked all day! I will keep you updated on my growing (I would start a journal, but I still haven't figured out how to download pics to the site as I am a lttle tech challenged!). Have a great day NewGrowth! protopipe1


Yeah I kind of did not want a couch lock strain, that is why I am not a big kush fan but oh well . . . I still have plenty of Haze and I can't judge the smoke before the seedlings have even sprouted!


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## ovechkin8 (Oct 12, 2008)

i planted it like 1 cm deep in teh sponge foam that the Aerogarden thing comes with


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## NewGrowth (Oct 12, 2008)

ovechkin8 said:


> i planted it like 1 cm deep in teh sponge foam that the Aerogarden thing comes with


Rapid rooters? Do you have a light on? Sometimes that will encourage the sprout to come on up. You should be seeing them pretty soon . . .


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## swishatwista (Oct 13, 2008)

Hey NG, i just have a few more uncertainys(hopfully a word), for one, im going to need a cool tube for my either 400/600w hps, and im wondering if a cool tube is going to be needed, and if so, im going to ahve to have a carbon filter so all the smell stays within the box, so im kind of uncertain about the set up that those 3 are going to have( the light, the cool tube, and carbon filter). And my other concern is that im not quite sure what size bulb to use. At first i was thinking 600w, but im probably only going to be growing 12 plants from sog and going straight into flowering from root. So what'da think NG?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 13, 2008)

swishatwista said:


> .Hey NG, i just have a few more uncertainys(hopfully a word), for one, im going to need a cool tube for my either 400/600w hps, and im wondering if a cool tube is going to be needed, and if so, im going to ahve to have a carbon filter so all the smell stays within the box, so im kind of uncertain about the set up that those 3 are going to have( the light, the cool tube, and carbon filter)


Yes for lights of that size you will need a cool tube. I'm Jammin . . . .
Especially considering the size of your grow space.



> And my other concern is that im not quite sure what size bulb to use. At first i was thinking 600w, but im probably only going to be growing 12 plants from sog and going straight into flowering from root. So what'da think NG?


For that few plants you can get away with 400w however if you want to grow really big plants 600w. The larger light requires a higher fan speed however to run the cool tubes. Resulting in higher cost. peace out son


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## KillaCam420 (Oct 14, 2008)

This has been a very informative thread. I had a few questions for you though. I am a noob preparing for my first grow. I recently just purchased a cool cab by sunlightsheds. I do not know if you are familiar with the product, but it is a turn key self automated system. It comes with everything you need. Specifically though it comes with a 14 plant hydroflora system, and i was wondering how many plants you actually think i would be able to fit in the system without over crowding the plants. here is the link

Cool Cab

I have the choice of choosing from 3 different strains, Master Kush, Big Bang, and KillaWatt. I am going for maximum yield. Also the cab probably has about 4 and a half feet of grow space height wise, and i was wondering what technique do u think should be used for maximum yield. Whether that be standard or traditional, or a SCROG or SOG grow. Your suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks and any other suggestions on what to watch for or do on my first grow would be awesome.


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## NewGrowth (Oct 14, 2008)

KillaCam420 said:


> This has been a very informative thread. I had a few questions for you though. I am a noob preparing for my first grow. I recently just purchased a cool cab by sunlightsheds. I do not know if you are familiar with the product, but it is a turn key self automated system. It comes with everything you need. Specifically though it comes with a 14 plant hydroflora system, and i was wondering how many plants you actually think i would be able to fit in the system without over crowding the plants. here is the link
> 
> Cool Cab


I purchased a PC grower from them years ago and was not impressed. I would like to see the cool cab in operation however. I would guess half that number of plants and there is no way you would get dense buds with plants of any height in that space, without side lighting. I think it looks cool but will not work out as well as a home made comparably priced set up. or even a closet . . . I also have a feeling it is not quite "turn key" and may need modifications to operate effectively. 



> I have the choice of choosing from 3 different strains, Master Kush, Big Bang, and KillaWatt. I am going for maximum yield. Also the cab probably has about 4 and a half feet of grow space height wise, and i was wondering what technique do u think should be used for maximum yield. Whether that be standard or traditional, or a SCROG or SOG grow. Your suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks and any other suggestions on what to watch for or do on my first grow would be awesome.


I would suggest a SCROG in such a narrow space, you will not be able to grow bushy plants in there but a well trimmed SCROG might work out well and increase yield considerably. The trick is to thread healthy bud site into each hole of the netting. Trim anything below 1.5 feet also, keep the light as close as possible.


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## protopipe1 (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi there! I went ahead and got the Ionic line.
I got 1 gallon of Ionic Grow, 1 gallon of Ionic Bloom and 1 quart of Ionic Boost. I got it online at 4hydro and the bloom and grow gals. were only $24.95 each! 
I am going to conduct an experiment with these nutes and Dutch Master. I wll use the Ionic nutes in the 6 gal bubbleponic set up to veg 2 Paradise seeds fem. Opiums, and 2 Quality Dutch fem. White Shark seeds. I am growing 7 autos in my 8 gal. set up, and when they get down to 10 days left, I will take clones off my Opium and White Shark plants. After harvest, I will flower the clones and 4 plants w/Ionic nutes. Then I will repeat the same grow with the Dutch Master nutes and see what my yields look like! I will keep you in the loop! protopipe1


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## NewGrowth (Oct 14, 2008)

protopipe1 said:


> Hi there! I went ahead and got the Ionic line.
> I got 1 gallon of Ionic Grow, 1 gallon of Ionic Bloom and 1 quart of Ionic Boost. I got it online at 4hydro and the bloom and grow gals. were only $24.95 each!


Yeah cheap too huh!? I love these nutes, you can get twice as much for half the cost . . .



> I am going to conduct an experiment with these nutes and Dutch Master. I wll use the Ionic nutes in the 6 gal bubbleponic set up to veg 2 Paradise seeds fem. Opiums, and 2 Quality Dutch fem. White Shark seeds. I am growing 7 autos in my 8 gal. set up, and when they get down to 10 days left, I will take clones off my Opium and White Shark plants. After harvest, I will flower the clones and 4 plants w/Ionic nutes. Then I will repeat the same grow with the Dutch Master nutes and see what my yields look like! I will keep you in the loop! protopipe1


Awesome! Can you give us a price comparison on the Dutch Master nutes compared to Ionic too?


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## swishatwista (Oct 14, 2008)

Hey NewGrowth, im growing some kush in about a week and i planned on using the DWC, but iv heard that growing in soil gives it more a purple color if it is capable of it. i was wondering about your overall opinion on whether it'd be more benefitial to grow using soil or the dwc, air pump, system. 
Another question, first i would have to grow mothers out of seeds to make clones. Do you think i should put those seeds straight into good soil after they crack? Thanks


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## NewGrowth (Oct 14, 2008)

swishatwista said:


> Hey NewGrowth, im growing some kush in about a week and i planned on using the DWC, but iv heard that growing in soil gives it more a purple color if it is capable of it. i was wondering about your overall opinion on whether it'd be more benefitial to grow using soil or the dwc, air pump, system.


Purple and red colors are often the result of a phosphorous deficient plant. The reason plants turn purple in cold weather is that the cold can cause phosphorous lockout. Very few plants actually have a purple phenotype, much of what is sold are just poorly cared for buds or buds forced to turn purple. I think kush is often shown purple because of the region it comes from. It can get very cold up in the mountains causing a purple plant.
Nothing like the taste of organic soil grown bud, but a DWC will probably give you better results/yield if you have never done much with soil. If you are interested in organics check out Oshogreen's threads he is a true organic master.



> Another question, first i would have to grow mothers out of seeds to make clones. Do you think i should put those seeds straight into good soil after they crack? Thanks


Yes once the crack go ahead and put them into good soil.


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## KillaCam420 (Oct 14, 2008)

thanks for your advice. I was planning on probably doing a 6 plant SCROG. Probably gonna use the Master Kush for my first try cuz i hear it is an easy strain for beginners to grow. I was thinking about installing some lights on the side of the cab to increase growth of the side branches and get more light to all the bud sites. If i were to do this what type of light do u think i should use on the sides? and what wattage? because i don't want them to get too hot with the plants being so close to the light. and if i were to do a scrog how far above the plants when they are vegging should i install or place the screen. I dont know if the distance the screen is from the initial growth of the plants has any impact on the yield in a SCROG.

Yes i have also heard bad things about the PC Planter, but i have heard numerous good things and good reviews about the cool cab. Hopefully it all works out for me. Thanks for your help again!


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## protopipe1 (Oct 14, 2008)

The prices for Dutch Master Advanced Grow A & B, and Advanced Bloom A & B are $45.00 on cheahydroponics.com. That is for a 5 liter bottle, which makes it much more expensive than Ionic. The Liquid Light is $40 which is cheap compared to the retail price of $59. So it will be interesting to see if there is any difference in yield. Take care. protopipe1


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## NewGrowth (Oct 14, 2008)

KillaCam420 said:


> thanks for your advice. I was planning on probably doing a 6 plant SCROG. Probably gonna use the Master Kush for my first try cuz i hear it is an easy strain for beginners to grow. I was thinking about installing some lights on the side of the cab to increase growth of the side branches and get more light to all the bud sites. If i were to do this what type of light do u think i should use on the sides?


Im reeeealy high right now 
Flouroecent tubes would work best, no high heat lamps for side lighting. Also a fan to circulate air under the canopy. 
If you do a SCROG correctly you should not need side lighting.



> and what wattage? because i don't want them to get too hot with the plants being so close to the light. and if i were to do a scrog how far above the plants when they are vegging should i install or place the screen. I dont know if the distance the screen is from the initial growth of the plants has any impact on the yield in a SCROG.


Tubes run at a pretty low temperature so heat build up would be minimal in a small cab. I'm more used to larger rooms where HID's are used for side lighting.

The higher you place the screen the more budsites you should be able to thread into it. The trade off is your veg time is increased. There is a maximum set point but it is unique to each grow space and strain.



> Yes i have also heard bad things about the PC Planter, but i have heard numerous good things and good reviews about the cool cab. Hopefully it all works out for me. Thanks for your help again!


Yeah keep us updated bro


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## NewGrowth (Oct 14, 2008)

protopipe1 said:


> The prices for Dutch Master Advanced Grow A & B, and Advanced Bloom A & B are $45.00 on cheahydroponics.com. That is for a 5 liter bottle, which makes it much more expensive than Ionic. The Liquid Light is $40 which is cheap compared to the retail price of $59. So it will be interesting to see if there is any difference in yield. Take care. protopipe1


So $25 compared to $45, What I'm interested in finding is even if Dutch Master nutes provide a slightly higher yield, is it still worth the initial investment? Or maybe I'm just stoned . . .


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## protopipe1 (Oct 15, 2008)

Yeah, I wonder too! I really doubt that there would be that big of difference! And I am just a doing a personal grow so I don't really care about huge yields...I just want huge, dense, and powerful buds. My Ionic nutes are being delivered tomorrow! How is your grow going, NewGrowth? 
Well, smoke and pass!! protopipe1


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## NewGrowth (Oct 15, 2008)

protopipe1 said:


> Yeah, I wonder too! I really doubt that there would be that big of difference! And I am just a doing a personal grow so I don't really care about huge yields...I just want huge, dense, and powerful buds. My Ionic nutes are being delivered tomorrow! How is your grow going, NewGrowth?
> Well, smoke and pass!! protopipe1


These seeds are not very good . . . . took a while to germinate and I had to crack two to them to get them to pop. I'm not impressed however this is my second time using Greenhouse seeds. Maybe its just this strain. Very poor seed viability has been reported recently with Greenhouse however. This Arjan's Haze #1 was nice though. I ordered some White Widow from nirvana, I have always had great success with their product. I just feel like every time I want to grow something "new" I wind up trashing it and going back to the same old strains. White Widow, Northern Lights, Skunk, ect.


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## protopipe1 (Oct 15, 2008)

You know, I had issues with seed viability with 10 Church feminized seeds that only 2 popped, and they died quickly. I think that is why they are so cheap...they are unstable! You are so right about going with the tried and true stains. I like vigorous and easy to grow plants like Skunk and White Widow, I am going to give Northern Lights a go too! protopipe1


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## NewGrowth (Oct 15, 2008)

protopipe1 said:


> You know, I had issues with seed viability with 10 Church feminized seeds that only 2 popped, and they died quickly. I think that is why they are so cheap...they are unstable! You are so right about going with the tried and true stains. I like vigorous and easy to grow plants like Skunk and White Widow, I am going to give Northern Lights a go too! protopipe1


Yeah I just have grown those strains so much I wanted to try something different. Since this is a personal grow, I did order trainwreck seeds too not K-train. Oh well enough ranting I have trusty nirvana seeds on the way can't go wrong with them.


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## racer3456 (Oct 15, 2008)

how do u feel about clearex over old-fashioned flushing for a week? I know earl likes to use it for 2 days before the chop.


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## NewGrowth (Oct 15, 2008)

racer3456 said:


> how do u feel about clearex over old-fashioned flushing for a week? I know earl likes to use it for 2 days before the chop.


I don't know I've never used it. I just flush the old fashion way . . . let me know if you find anything else about it though. I'm cheap so my operations run with minimal additives, I have yet to find an additive that is worth the additional cost for a commercial grow, besides H202.


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## bca21 (Oct 15, 2008)

Im using pvc with 10 holes and 10 misters threw hydro/aero system. I dont want to use rock wool or anything really. Since im using aeroponics, can I just put the germinated seed in the midle of cup of hydroton rocks instead. In other words, put the seed in the middle of the rocks were the rock wool should be? I figured that way, there will be no chance for algie and root rot with over watering. Im testing the system with bag seeds to try the system....


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## zacattak (Oct 15, 2008)

I Have A Few Questions...
When Do You Place Rockwool In Hydroton Filled Net Pots?
How Much Hydroton Needs To Be In Net Pots?

Whut Type Of Lighting Do You Recommend For A 3ftX3ft Space For Autoflowering Plants? (IM TRYING TO SAVE AS MUCH ENERGY AS POSSIBLE)

How Much Energy Will I Be Using With 250W HPS (18hrs For 60days)


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## NewGrowth (Oct 16, 2008)

bca21 said:


> Im using pvc with 10 holes and 10 misters threw hydro/aero system. I dont want to use rock wool or anything really. Since im using aeroponics, can I just put the germinated seed in the midle of cup of hydroton rocks instead. In other words, put the seed in the middle of the rocks were the rock wool should be?


You are smoking too much man. The large spaces between hydroton will not support a small seedling. You need a media to start your seeds if you don't want to use rockwool look into rapid rooter plugs.



> I figured that way, there will be no chance for algie and root rot with over watering. Im testing the system with bag seeds to try the system....


Algae can be solved my covering your media with something lightproof. Root rot can be avoided by properly aerating your nutrient solution., maintaining a sterile solution i.e using H202, and not over saturating absorbent media (rockwool). 
If you get anything out of this, you need a starting media.




zacattak said:


> I Have A Few Questions...
> When Do You Place Rockwool In Hydroton Filled Net Pots?


When roots begin to grow out of the rockwool.



> How Much Hydroton Needs To Be In Net Pots?


Enough to fill them to the top
Ok I'm a smartass, I like to place the cubes a little below the tops of the pots and cover it with some rockwool to help promote root growth and prevent algae growth.



> Whut Type Of Lighting Do You Recommend For A 3ftX3ft Space For Autoflowering Plants? (IM TRYING TO SAVE AS MUCH ENERGY AS POSSIBLE)



Lots of debate on this one. I like to shoot for at least 6,000 lumen per square foot. If possible I always provide as much light as possible, regardless of the space. So with that estimate for 6 sq foot space you would need a minimum of a 400w HPS. Now I would reccomend the 600 or 1000w systems if you can properly cool them and incur the increased set up costs for fans, ect. They will result in denser buds, increased growth rates, and higher yields ever ytime however.



> How Much Energy Will I Be Using With 250W HPS (18hrs For 60days)


Simple math 1kw=1,000watts. A 250watt X 18hrs X 60 days = 270,000watts or 270 kilowatts. If you want to know the cost of electricity just look up your electric companies price per kw hr, it may change in "off peak" times. But lets assume you kilowatt per hour cost was $.05. The 270 kwhr X $.05= $13.50 total cost to run that light for 60 days on an 18 hour schedule.
All this and I'm stoned out of my mind.


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## grownavy1091 (Oct 16, 2008)

Hey NG, I'm also new to the grow game I just ordered some top 44 from Nirvana today so wish me luck!! I'll be using the supercloset deluxe to get started I'm not sure if your familiar with the system or not, but it's on supercloset.com. I've got the bread to burn cuz I just got out the navy so I'm blowin it, before I venture out and start building my own like the rest of you mad scientist out there! lol so in the meantime, I'm just reading up and doing my homework. Once the seedlings hatch out of the rockwool and outgrow it how do I transport it to a bigger cube? do I cut a hole and drop her in? or is there another way?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 16, 2008)

grownavy1091 said:


> Hey NG, I'm also new to the grow game I just ordered some top 44 from Nirvana today so wish me luck!! I'll be using the supercloset deluxe to get started I'm not sure if your familiar with the system or not, but it's on supercloset.com. I've got the bread to burn cuz I just got out the navy so I'm blowin it, before I venture out and start building my own like the rest of you mad scientist out there! lol so in the meantime, I'm just reading up and doing my homework. Once the seedlings hatch out of the rockwool and outgrow it how do I transport it to a bigger cube? do I cut a hole and drop her in? or is there another way?



I't says ebb and flow on their website for that thing. I'm guessing you are growing right in the rockwool cubes? Are you sure it does not come with net pots and hydroton? That would be more common. If you are using rockwool only the cubes are manufactured to fit with holes already made to place a small cube into a larger one.


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## grownavy1091 (Oct 17, 2008)

Actually the bottom chamber is auroponic, but it doesn't mist. there's just red nozzles that shoot a stream of water to the plants, and your right, they do use net pots and hydroton for the rock wool in the bottom chamber. But up above is ebb n flow. check out JonnyBlunt88's grow journal, he's got the same set up, thanks for the info though, just trying to get all the basics worked out before I germ anything. I'm trying to find someone else with the same setup, but I don't think that guys on RIU anymore, I can't view the pics from photobucket either, (not sure why ). so i'm guessing that once they go into 4'' or 6'' cubes (whichever ones come with it) I won't have to change them out anymore? they just added a new feature as well which is the CO2 Injection. I'll be doing it in the garage of my house so I'm thinking about copping that as well. (not to fond of opening the doors all the time.) thanks for the input and advice. anything else that I need to know please don't hesitate to add input. I've been reading through a lot of everything, but your thread is helping me out alot. thnx


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## NewGrowth (Oct 17, 2008)

Probably comes with 1" rockwool starter cubes these can be placed directly in the net pots and covered with hydroton. No need for larger rockwool cubes in that set up.


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## iceburn (Oct 17, 2008)

This will be my first post. I have searched but really having a hard time finding any info about a question I had concerning LED growth. Looking at using a 55w LED Panel, at first was planning on just using the LED. 
What I will be working with: Aerogarden, small space could be considered a small closet, 55w LED (red and blue lights), FoxFarm line of nutes.

Not sure if I covered all the basics. My question is: Is it possible to use other light mediums in conjunction with LED? My main reason for using the LED is because of the stealthy'ness, low heat, low power consumption. 

From what I have read so far, I understand LED's do have their pro's and con's. I do have a light fixture from an old reef aquarium it is a HelloLights product and the lights are 10,000K at least that is whats printed on the bulbs. This is the ballast (2x 55W ARO CF Ballast Kit - Straight Pin - 48005) 

Would pairing the LED up with that ballast and some new bulbs (which type of bulbs would be best?)

Sorry if I am rambling, I have been thinking and searching about this a lot and cannot come up with any info, mostly all I could find are people growing with just the LED, no combinations? 

To summarize, Is it possible/worth it to add any other type of light to an LED setup (While keeping in mind a stealth setup)


Thanks!!!!


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## NewGrowth (Oct 17, 2008)

iceburn said:


> This will be my first post. I have searched but really having a hard time finding any info about a question I had concerning LED growth. Looking at using a 55w LED Panel, at first was planning on just using the LED.
> What I will be working with: Aerogarden, small space could be considered a small closet, 55w LED (red and blue lights), FoxFarm line of nutes.


Check out non-organic nutes for hydro you will get better results, hydro and organic don't mix very well.



> Not sure if I covered all the basics. My question is: Is it possible to use other light mediums in conjunction with LED? My main reason for using the LED is because of the stealthy'ness, low heat, low power consumption.


Yes you can add it to other lights. LED's are quite expensive and from what I have seen don't add any more bud density than flouros. You will likely be disappointed.



> From what I have read so far, I understand LED's do have their pro's and con's. I do have a light fixture from an old reef aquarium it is a HelloLights product and the lights are 10,000K at least that is whats printed on the bulbs. This is the ballast (2x 55W ARO CF Ballast Kit - Straight Pin - 48005)


That light kit is pretty expensive for flouros but if you have it go for it. It is nice to remove the ballast from the grow area. With that heat should not be an issue, the ballasts on flouros gets hotter than the bulbs.



> Would pairing the LED up with that ballast and some new bulbs (which type of bulbs would be best?)


I would highly recommend HID lighting if at all possible, I really think you will be disappointed in bud density with LED's and Flouros.



> Sorry if I am rambling, I have been thinking and searching about this a lot and cannot come up with any info, mostly all I could find are people growing with just the LED, no combinations?


I am have been trying to follow and LED/HID combo thread, I think the guys user name is Multan. Try a search on it.



> To summarize, Is it possible/worth it to add any other type of light to an LED setup (While keeping in mind a stealth setup)
> Thanks!!!!


Yes its is possible to combine LED's with other lighting systems, good luck keep us posted.


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## iceburn (Oct 17, 2008)

Thanks a lot! The whole lighting question has been playing on my mind for a while. With knowing that information, and what I have (I own an LED panel and that Ballast setup) Not wanting to spend any more money. If I by chance only had one maybe 2 baby's, would the lighting be sufficient to make it worth it? Keeping in mind not wanting to spend more money on lighting (but make it a goal for future).

Thank You!


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## NewGrowth (Oct 17, 2008)

iceburn said:


> Thanks a lot! The whole lighting question has been playing on my mind for a while. With knowing that information, and what I have (I own an LED panel and that Ballast setup) Not wanting to spend any more money. If I by chance only had one maybe 2 baby's, would the lighting be sufficient to make it worth it? Keeping in mind not wanting to spend more money on lighting (but make it a goal for future).
> Thank You!


Go for it it's your first grow and if you have the passion for growing you will want better lights. And bud you grow yourself is ALWAYS better.


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## iceburn (Oct 17, 2008)

There are different types of bulbs for my ballast setup, which bulb type do you think would be the best (you can follow the earlier link, and it allows you to choose a few different bulb types) I'm guessing either the 10,000 or a full spectrum type?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 17, 2008)

iceburn said:


> There are different types of bulbs for my ballast setup, which bulb type do you think would be the best (you can follow the earlier link, and it allows you to choose a few different bulb types) I'm guessing either the 10,000 or a full spectrum type?


Try both to get both the red and blue spectrum.


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## flipsidesw (Oct 18, 2008)

Sup Man!!

I just upgraded my grow room!! Its really sweet now. Fyi you were right about the advice u gave me about my fan being able to cool my 1k and a pull plenty of air through the carbon filter. I could easy add another 1k...

Im still trying to find the right system for my 4x3 aera. I wanna find a medialess system where its easy to change res and only need to adjust solution by weekly. I still may go ebb and flow but im trying to avoid bying stock in rock wool. Just seems like a waste of money to me. What ever system i choose the res will need to be beneath the plants so i can get the most canopy space for my area. Any guidance would be appreciated.

Do u think T-5's are worth it? They seem so expensive for florecents.. 

Peace FL!p


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## NewGrowth (Oct 18, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> Sup Man!!
> 
> I just upgraded my grow room!! Its really sweet now. Fyi you were right about the advice u gave me about my fan being able to cool my 1k and a pull plenty of air through the carbon filter. I could easy add another 1k...


So now you can upgrade to 2k when you get a larger space.
Thats my count^^



> Im still trying to find the right system for my 4x3 aera. I wanna find a medialess system where its easy to change res and only need to adjust solution by weekly. I still may go ebb and flow but im trying to avoid bying stock in rock wool. Just seems like a waste of money to me. What ever system i choose the res will need to be beneath the plants so i can get the most canopy space for my area. Any guidance would be appreciated.


If you want a pereptual harvest like you said before you will need ebb and flow. Unless you have cash to spend on multiple Aero/DWC/NFT set ups. The problem is you can not obtain the same plant density you can with flood tables.
You could one large harvest in that space with an aero stadium however.



> Do u think T-5's are worth it? They seem so expensive for flouros.


Wow I was really confused by that one 

No T-5's will never produce dense buds like HID's and even for veging will not provide the same rigorous growth rates as HID's.



> Peace FL!p


Listening to Marley here just blazzzzzzed


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## flipsidesw (Oct 19, 2008)

I was just gonna use the T-5's for seedlings and clones instead of the 400w mh. I just love how fast my veg is with it. Costs me 20 bucks more a month tho... 

Lol no floro flowering here.


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## NewGrowth (Oct 19, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> I was just gonna use the T-5's for seedlings and clones instead of the 400w mh. I just love how fast my veg is with it. Costs me 20 bucks more a month tho...


Yeah that should be fine but I don't think T5's are worth the additional costs for clones and seedlings.



> Lol no floro flowering here.


Good to hear bro


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## flipsidesw (Oct 19, 2008)

Ok so if i were to do a flood system do think if i used the 4x4x4cubes i would need to use slabs too? Flowering smaller clones...

I was hoping just the big cubes packed a tight as possible. Good till harvest you think?

Im gonna save the media less system for when i have more time space and money.

Im also thinking about using a deep rubbermaid for the res and a shallow rubbermaid tub for the flood tray. Do you think i could just put a peice of pvc on the outlet of the pump and drill a hole so the pvc sticks out of the shallow tray for the flooding. This way at least im thinking i could just lift of the flood tray of the res and set in on the floor and move my res out for changes and maintence. See any problems with this?

Im gona need a special timer for flooding arent i?


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## holmes (Oct 19, 2008)

Hi everyone
can someone explain what the lucas formula is please.


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## flipsidesw (Oct 19, 2008)

8ml micro 16ml bloom gh flora


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## flipsidesw (Oct 19, 2008)

Actually here read this.......http://http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm


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## iloveit (Oct 19, 2008)

Hi NewGrowth,
Im having a silly newbi problem, after germination I place the seeds in rockwool and they always die why am I doing wrong?

At first I discovered I was watering (PH at 5.8 & no nutes) too much then I tried misting but there were no changes the temp in my heated propagator is at a constant 28C & humidity is at approx 75-99%
Now my newly germinated blueberry seed is in root riot and would like any advise, opinion or otherwise which will help grow this seed.


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## NewGrowth (Oct 19, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> Ok so if i were to do a flood system do think if i used the 4x4x4cubes i would need to use slabs too? Flowering smaller clones...
> 
> I was hoping just the big cubes packed a tight as possible. Good till harvest you think?


It's hard to get that kind of plant density in a small space unless you have C02. Use 1gal pots (not net) and hydroton without C02. With cubes you will not need slabs unless your plant height exceeds 12". Then you can anchor them with string to prevent them from falling over.



> Im gonna save the media less system for when i have more time space and money.


The cost difference is quite large. 



> Im also thinking about using a deep rubbermaid for the res and a shallow rubbermaid tub for the flood tray. Do you think i could just put a peice of pvc on the outlet of the pump and drill a hole so the pvc sticks out of the shallow tray for the flooding. This way at least im thinking i could just lift of the flood tray of the res and set in on the floor and move my res out for changes and maintence. See any problems with this?


Yes but you will have to line the top rubbermaid so that there is no drainage in between the spaces of the rubbermaids.




> Im gona need a special timer for flooding arent i?


Yes but if you have multiple flood trays you can wire them to a single multi tap timer. Pumps do not pull a heavy amperage load like lights so they can be wired to a single timer.



holmes said:


> Hi everyone
> can someone explain what the lucas formula is please.





flipsidesw said:


> Actually here read this.......http://http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm


What he said 



iloveit said:


> Hi NewGrowth,
> Im having a silly newbi problem, after germination I place the seeds in rockwool and they always die why am I doing wrong?


Could be many factors starting with most likely: 1. Rockwool was over saturated
2. Rockwool was not properly prepared ie sterilized and soaked to PH adjust.
3. Environmental conditions, high or low temperatures ect. 



> At first I discovered I was watering (PH at 5.8 & no nutes) too much then I tried misting but there were no changes the temp in my heated propagator is at a constant 28C & humidity is at approx 75-99%


Sounds like the rockwool was not sterilized with H202 prior to planting



> Now my newly germinated blueberry seed is in root riot and would like any advise, opinion or otherwise which will help grow this seed.


Sounds like a rootzone pathogen you may still be over saturating the rockwool. Maintain your humidity at or below 40% and allow the rockwool to dry a bit between waterings. Remember to pre-soak your rockwill with a Ph corrected H202 solution. If this does not solve your problem you might look into sanitizing your growspace before re-planting.


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## hamburger (Oct 21, 2008)

Good thread.. Only thing im a little confused on is measuring the ppm... Well I know how to measure it with my tds, but as in measuring the amount of nutrients.

When I measure, do I measure the ppm of the water before adding nutes, than after adding nutes and subtract the ppm of the base water from the new ppm from the nutes?

E.g Base water ppm = 250ppm... I add my nutes and the new nuted water ppm = 750ppm.... so 750ppm - 250ppm = 500ppm... 500 ppm being my amount of nutes to moniter, or do I moniter the entire 750?

Any help is appreciated


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## NewGrowth (Oct 21, 2008)

hamburger said:


> Good thread.. Only thing im a little confused on is measuring the ppm... Well I know how to measure it with my tds, but as in measuring the amount of nutrients.
> 
> When I measure, do I measure the ppm of the water before adding nutes, than after adding nutes and subtract the ppm of the base water from the new ppm from the nutes?
> 
> ...


Yes subtract the beginning PPM from the total to get nutrient PPM.


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## Secret Grower (Oct 23, 2008)

Nice! I just learned something. Thanks for the input NG.

Why does the waters ppm not come into play?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 23, 2008)

Secret Grower said:


> Nice! I just learned something. Thanks for the input NG.
> 
> Why does the waters ppm not come into play?


Little to no nutrient value in tap water the PPM reading is mostly due to calcium.


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## hamburger (Oct 23, 2008)

Ok thats what I started doing right when I got my meter, however my ppm went up after a day, this would mean add less nutes to the water?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 23, 2008)

hamburger said:


> Ok thats what I started doing right when I got my meter, however my ppm went up after a day, this would mean add less nutes to the water?


Took me forever to find this I was to lazy to type it again 
1.Water level drops PPM goes up: Drop your nutrient strength in relationship to the PPM rise. 
2. Water level drops PPM stays the same: You may be able to fine tune you nutrient strength, if growth is vigorous leave it alone.
3. Water level drops PPM drops: Raise you nutrient strength in relationship too PPM drop.


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## hamburger (Oct 23, 2008)

Cool, I just went from 1/4 strength to 1/2 strength, guess they werent ready yet. 

Btw: I am running a top feed system with hydroton and I have my pump turning on for 10 minutes every hour to hour and a half.. Is this suitable.


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## NewGrowth (Oct 23, 2008)

hamburger said:


> Cool, I just went from 1/4 strength to 1/2 strength, guess they werent ready yet.
> 
> Btw: I am running a top feed system with hydroton and I have my pump turning on for 10 minutes every hour to hour and a half.. Is this suitable.


This is fine just monitor plants for any visible signs of overwatering. And never water during lights off or right before lights off.


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## hamburger (Oct 23, 2008)

Ok great, I am running my lights 24/7 at the moment so no worries there  I will probably be back for more help sometime. Thanks.


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## flipsidesw (Oct 23, 2008)

Sup NewGrowth!!

Just ordered a 3x3 botanicare flood table! I got a 396 gph pump with 3/4 fittings and tubing. I haven't decided on a res yet. The botanicare one is too pricey. I was thinking just a 20 gallon rubbermaid. I wanna flood 5-6 times a day. Do you think ill see much drift with this size? I dont wanna check every day!! im gonna run 1300ppm whole bud stage. Gh lucas formula with H202 @ 35% Kool bloom powder 6th week..

I wanna use grow bags with hydroton. Planned on using 1/2 gall bags. I think the bags will give me slightly more room for roots than the tapered 6" square pot... Thoughts?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 23, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> Sup NewGrowth!!
> 
> Just ordered a 3x3 botanicare flood table! I got a 396 gph pump with 3/4 fittings and tubing. I haven't decided on a res yet. The botanicare one is too pricey. I was thinking just a 20 gallon rubbermaid. I wanna flood 5-6 times a day. Do you think ill see much drift with this size? I dont wanna check every day!! im gonna run 1300ppm whole bud stage. Gh lucas formula with H202 @ 35% Kool bloom powder 6th week..


One liter per plant is a good rule that Al B put out there, I did not even know I was doing that when building my set ups. I would just estimate the reservoir size from past experience. When I looked at may journals I found that I was running about 1L per plants. 



> I wanna use grow bags with hydroton. Planned on using 1/2 gall bags. I think the bags will give me slightly more room for roots than the tapered 6" square pot... Thoughts?


Never used grow bags with hydro, unless you use coco-coir. I would not use coco on a flood table though. I would think a grow bag not stablize the roots as well as a standard pot. I just use standard one gallon black nursery pots. A plant of one foot in a SOG should not have any problem in a 1 gal pot.


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## flipsidesw (Oct 23, 2008)

I was gonna "pack" the table with bag. I just poured some hydroton in one of the bags now. I do see what ur saying. Im gonna check again once my table get here. Im getting the bags for free sooo... 

You can aslo put alot more pebbles the bag since u can control how much you fold the bag. You can make em nice an tall. I was hoping for a lil more room for roots. Hopefully once the bags are packed in the table i get more stability.

Do you know anything about the liquig version of the kool bloom?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 23, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> I was gonna "pack" the table with bag. I just poured some hydroton in one of the bags now. I do see what ur saying. Im gonna check again once my table get here. Im getting the bags for free sooo...
> 
> You can aslo put alot more pebbles the bag since u can control how much you fold the bag. You can make em nice an tall. I was hoping for a lil more room for roots. Hopefully once the bags are packed in the table i get more stability.
> 
> Do you know anything about the liquig version of the kool bloom?


Yeah let me know how the bags work out, If you pack them you might not be able to move the plants though . . .

Don't use Gh products so nope never used kool bloom, I think my buddy gave me some though  I just put it in storage.


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## flipsidesw (Oct 23, 2008)

What products are you partial too? Why no gh?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 23, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> What products are you partial too? Why no gh?


I use Ionic brand, I like the two part formula. Gh only has a two part with organic components. Ionic is completely inorganic and works well with H202. Its also cheap and I have not seen any reason to switch.  Just me though use what ever nutes work for you is what I say . . .


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## flipsidesw (Oct 23, 2008)

Yea you told me about the ionic before my bad for the reduntancy. I can use h202 with gh flora series right? I thought it was completely synthetic?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 23, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> Yea you told me about the ionic before my bad for the reduntancy. I can use h202 with gh flora series right? I thought it was completely synthetic?


Flora nova has humic acid extracts that react with H202. The regular 3 part flora series does not have any organic compounds and will work fine with H202.


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## hamburger (Oct 26, 2008)

Ok Im back lol... Ive been reading some more and people are saying to start at like 500ppm etc etc.. Do you know how much ppm the water is going to be at from previous measurements? Is there a way to measure how much ppm you are adding to the water before you add it? Or just alot of math im assuming?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 26, 2008)

hamburger said:


> Ok Im back lol... Ive been reading some more and people are saying to start at like 500ppm etc etc.. Do you know how much ppm the water is going to be at from previous measurements? Is there a way to measure how much ppm you are adding to the water before you add it? Or just alot of math im assuming?


Yeah to much math for me . . .

You subtract initial PPM from the total. For example: tap water is 250 ppm, after nutrients it is 1500. Actual ppm is 1500-250= 1250 ppm.

Just measure out doses and measure the corresponding ppm. You will be able to estimate how much to add after you do it a couple times.


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## JayDoe71 (Oct 29, 2008)

NewGrowth said:


> I have reading a lot of confusion with hydroponics systems, nutrients,ect. It is often difficult to answer people's questions about hydroponics after a thread has been hijacked and false information has been posted.
> I thought I would start a thread where people could ask hydroponics questions. No question is dumb and if it is well I'll tell you. I will also not tolerate any myths or false information.
> I'm certainly no expert but I have been growing for years with hydroponics and have set-up and help manage grow operations in quite a few places. One of the best ways for me to continue to learn is to answer your questions so POST AWAY!!


Hey New,

Have you ever harvested weed that cures brown in any of your many growth operations?


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## NewGrowth (Oct 29, 2008)

JayDoe71 said:


> Hey New,
> 
> Have you ever harvested weed that cures brown in any of your many growth operations?


No But I do have a picture>


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## doogleef (Nov 5, 2008)

I've got about 5 sq ft and am debating between 400 and 600 cooltubed on a closed circuit (ABF style) hps. 600 would be 120w per sq/ft. Too much?

Thanks in advance.


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## mightyboogie (Nov 5, 2008)

hallo
i have 6 mother plants under flourescent in clay pebbels pots.they are almost 8 weeks old and i noticed that roots comming out of the pots are drying...
i top feed them 3 times a day...
should i feed them more times to avoid the roots to dry or 3 times a day is fine???
tnx


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## flipsidesw (Nov 5, 2008)

Sup NewGrowth!!

Got a quickie for ya, Do you think 15000 lumens per sqft could compensate for an uneven canopy?

I was hoping to put clones at various stages on the same flood table...

FLip


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## CeFx (Nov 5, 2008)

Im using an ebb n flow hydro system. Ive got 5 plants about 3 weeks into veg. Im currently:

Watering 5 times/day with 600ppm Flora Nova Nutes in the resevoir
24/0 Light Cycle

Some Questions I would kill to have answered:

Am I over watering?
Whens the time to up the ppm?
4 out of 5 are beautiful. One has yellow leaves on the outer rims (chlorisis?)
Is it better to have the room at about 70 at night 75 during day?
Anything else that would help me oh masta of mary jane?


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## NewGrowth (Nov 5, 2008)

mightyboogie said:


> hallo
> i have 6 mother plants under flourescent in clay pebbels pots.they are almost 8 weeks old and i noticed that roots comming out of the pots are drying...
> i top feed them 3 times a day...
> should i feed them more times to avoid the roots to dry or 3 times a day is fine???
> tnx


You will need to feed them more often hydroton does not retain water well. What kind of set up do you have?



doogleef said:


> I've got about 5 sq ft and am debating between 400 and 600 cooltubed on a closed circuit (ABF style) hps. 600 would be 120w per sq/ft. Too much?
> Thanks in advance.


The 600w light will provide denser buds, higher yield, an more light penetration. The trade off is heat but if you are using a cool tube it should be fine.



flipsidesw said:


> Sup NewGrowth!!
> 
> Got a quickie for ya, Do you think 15000 lumens per sqft could compensate for an uneven canopy?


Possibly depends on the type of light too, higher wattage lamps provide superior penetration.



> I was hoping to put clones at various stages on the same flood table...
> FLip


You may be disappointed in the result, when plants are crowded so closely at varied heights the smaller plants are often stunted and yield is reduced.



CeFx said:


> Im using an ebb n flow hydro system. Ive got 5 plants about 3 weeks into veg. Im currently:
> 
> Watering 5 times/day with 600ppm Flora Nova Nutes in the resevoir
> 24/0 Light Cycle
> ...





> Am I over watering?


Depends on the medium you are using. Do your plants look overwatered?



> Whens the time to up the ppm?


Here is a guide:
1.Water level drops PPM goes up: Drop your nutrient strength in relationship to the PPM rise. 
2. Water level drops PPM stays the same: You may be able to fine tune you nutrient strength, if growth is vigorous leave it alone.
3. Water level drops PPM drops: Raise you nutrient strength in relationship too PPM drop.



> 4 out of 5 are beautiful. One has yellow leaves on the outer rims (chlorisis?)


Would have to see the plant



> Is it better to have the room at about 70 at night 75 during day?


Night and day temps are not really important. I try to keep my rooms between 70-78 as long as you can maintain those temps growth will be vigorous.



> Anything else that would help me oh masta of mary jane?


Buddha is the master of mary jane not me


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## flipsidesw (Nov 5, 2008)

Well i have 1k and was gonna do like 8-9 cuttings every other week and put them in a rotatation Alb style but on one 3x3 table. So be more of a staggered canopy. Make sense? Thoughts?


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## NewGrowth (Nov 5, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> Well i have 1k and was gonna do like 8-9 cuttings every other week and put them in a rotatation Alb style but on one 3x3 table. So be more of a staggered canopy. Make sense? Thoughts?


Yeah I understand, it is a small perpetual grow. The crowding might cause some of the smaller plants to grow slower. That is why you want to be able to rotate plants on a table, the ones in the center with more light grow faster so you rotate them to the outer edges to maintain an even canopy. I think you will see reduced yield with that type of crowding. An even canopy is key to high yield in a SOG. You may be more satisfied with a larger harvest every 8 weeks if you are limited to one table.


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## CeFx (Nov 5, 2008)

> Depends on the medium you are using. Do your plants look overwatered?



We are using volcanic rock pebbles. Pretty sure they are pH neutral. The plants seem to be perfect. Just maybe what to look out for incase of overwatering might help me out more?


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## NewGrowth (Nov 5, 2008)

CeFx said:


> We are using volcanic rock pebbles. Pretty sure they are pH neutral. The plants seem to be perfect. Just maybe what to look out for incase of overwatering might help me out more?


Overwatering is characterized by drooping "heavy" looking leaves, can look similar to under watering in some cases. Volcanic rock can effect reservoir pH if not rinsed properly to dislodge any sediment.


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## smoke? (Nov 5, 2008)

I have a question for you I am setting up a flood table and I'm going to grow white widow and kc 33 what type of medium is the best to use


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## NewGrowth (Nov 5, 2008)

smoke? said:


> I have a question for you I am setting up a flood table and I'm going to grow white widow and kc 33 what type of medium is the best to use


Hydroton provides excellent root zone aeration, the draw back is that it must be flooded more often than some more absorbent media such as rockwool.


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## mightyboogie (Nov 6, 2008)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mightyboogie*
> _hallo
> i have 6 mother plants under flourescent in clay pebbels pots.they are almost 8 weeks old and i noticed that roots comming out of the pots are drying...
> ...


well i use a top feed system (6 pots with clay pebbles on a hydro tray...but i use this only in the veg room for mother plans.
i have another room with an aero flo 20)
so should i start feeding my mother plants more times a day?
tnx


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## Bullethead21 (Nov 6, 2008)

Hi there! Awsome thread! 

I got one for ya. My plants are ranging from 2 to 4 inches and have roots through to the bottom on the net pots and some roots are hanging in the water even on most all of the plants. This is a Bubbleponic type system. Feed tube going to net cups and airstones for oxygen. 

My question is I started these plants in rock wool cubes and then buried them in hydroton rocks leaving the rock wool cubes just a little below the top level of the net pot......and since my plants seem to have a decent root system now, how and when can I loose the stinky rock wool cubes? 

Cant i just use the hydroton rocks? How do I get the cubes out without disturbing root system very much? Is there a method or can I just pull out the soggy rockwool in pieces? I think or it looks like if I remove a few or most of the rocks I could get to the cube really easy and using a blade and some needle nose carefully pull the rock wool cubes out....is this bad idea?

Thanks in advance!

Also, could you kindly describe the exact steps of cracking the seed in a wet, warm dark paper towel all the way to putting the cracked seed in a rock wool with hydra rocks (like how long or how far cracked before moving seedling from paper towel to rw cube and rocks in the system, and then steps during, & after the seedling pops his little head up through the wool..LOL)

Im pretty sure I got this part down, I have been practicing on cheap seeds getting them to crack and I can do that part just dont know all the "other" details and would like to hear it from someone with experience that has done it before. This would be my actual first time so technically Ive never done it yet on this new system..just a few practice runs to make sure everything works and I can take measurment and PH stable my water ect..ect..

This is all new really .Ive have been reading and reserching for months, even taking notes ...lol Me and the wife always grew our gardens outside in the backyard, even growing up...best tomatoes still to date grown by my dad using garbage and stuff as fertilzers out in the backyard garden....but Ive always wanted to venture into growing hydroponics..so I leaped and this is my new hobby now! 

This thread has answered so many questions already that I have had. I am about to go actaully buy some real seeds so I wanna make sure this time I do everything properly and correct, which is why I was posting asking about the steps to take with the seeds. I want to get off to a good start right off the bat.! Thanks so much again !

PS-Im also working on a little "pocket seed cracker" Im experimenting with making for less than 20 dollars, maybe even 10 or less if I can figure out the slight getting heat issue im having in design, so to speak. So far it works really well, I just need to work out some minor kinks and I will post and share.

REP++


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## NewGrowth (Nov 6, 2008)

mightyboogie said:


> well i use a top feed system (6 pots with clay pebbles on a hydro tray...but i use this only in the veg room for mother plans.
> i have another room with an aero flo 20)
> so should i start feeding my mother plants more times a day?
> tnx


If they are showing signs of needing more water then yes. I flood hydroton every 2-2.5 hours and not before lights out.



Bullethead21 said:


> Hi there! Awsome thread!
> 
> I got one for ya. My plants are ranging from 2 to 4 inches and have roots through to the bottom on the net pots and some roots are hanging in the water even on most all of the plants. This is a Bubbleponic type system. Feed tube going to net cups and airstones for oxygen.
> 
> My question is I started these plants in rock wool cubes and then buried them in hydroton rocks leaving the rock wool cubes just a little below the top level of the net pot......and since my plants seem to have a decent root system now, how and when can I loose the stinky rock wool cubes?


Why do you want to remove the cubes? I've been smoking but I can not think of a reason the cubes would need to be removed.



> Cant i just use the hydroton rocks? How do I get the cubes out without disturbing root system very much? Is there a method or can I just pull out the soggy rockwool in pieces? I think or it looks like if I remove a few or most of the rocks I could get to the cube really easy and using a blade and some needle nose carefully pull the rock wool cubes out....is this bad idea?


Still not sure why you want to remove the cubes . . .



> Thanks in advance!


I guess . . .



> Also, could you kindly describe the exact steps of cracking the seed in a wet, warm dark paper towel all the way to putting the cracked seed in a rock wool with hydra rocks (like how long or how far cracked before moving seedling from paper towel to rw cube and rocks in the system, and then steps during, & after the seedling pops his little head up through the wool..LOL)


This one I can answer . . .
1. Place seeds between two layers of damp paper towel
2. Place this is a plastic bag to retain moisture
3. Place in a warm spot 
4. As soon as the seeds crack usually 24-48 hours place them in the pH adjusted rockwool cubes
5. Ensure the cubes are damp not wet
6. Seedlings should show in 24-48 hrs some plants are slower . . .



> Im pretty sure I got this part down, I have been practicing on cheap seeds getting them to crack and I can do that part just dont know all the "other" details and would like to hear it from someone with experience that has done it before. This would be my actual first time so technically Ive never done it yet on this new system..just a few practice runs to make sure everything works and I can take measurment and PH stable my water ect..ect..


Sounds good, just don't over wet the rock wool keep the seeds and seedlings warm and moist until they begin to develop their first set of true leaves.



> This is all new really .Ive have been reading and reserching for months, even taking notes ...lol Me and the wife always grew our gardens outside in the backyard, even growing up...best tomatoes still to date grown by my dad using garbage and stuff as fertilzers out in the backyard garden....but Ive always wanted to venture into growing hydroponics..so I leaped and this is my new hobby now!


If you are a gardener you will catch on really easy, hydroponics is very simple. I love to garden myself, nothing like growing your own fruits, vegetables, herbs, ect.



> This thread has answered so many questions already that I have had. I am about to go actaully buy some real seeds so I wanna make sure this time I do everything properly and correct, which is why I was posting asking about the steps to take with the seeds. I want to get off to a good start right off the bat.! Thanks so much again !


Sounds good keep us posted 



> PS-Im also working on a little "pocket seed cracker" Im experimenting with making for less than 20 dollars, maybe even 10 or less if I can figure out the slight getting heat issue im having in design, so to speak. So far it works really well, I just need to work out some minor kinks and I will post and share.
> 
> REP++


I would like to see that


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## Bullethead21 (Nov 7, 2008)

Thanks for answering all those questions. I dunno why, I just thought for some reason the rock wool should come out at some point...gonna have to re position one or 2 of them a lttle higher so they dont get so wet...there is a feed tube pumping in the water so at some point they are gonna be soaked on the bottom where the feed tube comes in....thats the part I dont like so much so far about this sytem...

SH told me the tube should but up agaisnt the bottom of the rw cube in the net cups.......


That sound about right?

That an already I am seeing slight little brown formation buildup of some sort around the inside of the tank where my 6 gallon water line mark is....guess thats algea growing? Anyway to treat that other than draining tank and cleaning and refilling or is that about it?

Thanks again!


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## liltree1 (Nov 7, 2008)

I am using the aerogarden, i have a relly nice setup, i removed the hood and set up some clamp lights, with cfls and started flowering, they are about 3 weeks in and they are doing great, i had to scrap a male plant, but i have 2 fems, i see buds everywhere, is there any way to speed up the flowering process


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## NewGrowth (Nov 7, 2008)

Bullethead21 said:


> Thanks for answering all those questions. I dunno why, I just thought for some reason the rock wool should come out at some point...gonna have to re position one or 2 of them a lttle higher so they dont get so wet...there is a feed tube pumping in the water so at some point they are gonna be soaked on the bottom where the feed tube comes in....thats the part I dont like so much so far about this sytem...
> 
> SH told me the tube should but up agaisnt the bottom of the rw cube in the net cups.......
> 
> ...


Is this a top feed system? On a flood table the water level should only come to about an 1.5"-2" below the the bottom of the cube.



> That an already I am seeing slight little brown formation buildup of some sort around the inside of the tank where my 6 gallon water line mark is....guess thats algea growing? Anyway to treat that other than draining tank and cleaning and refilling or is that about it?
> 
> Thanks again!


Algae is not brown that is bacterial build up. You need to add H202 to your rez to prevent that. The bacteria compete with the roots for oxygen and can promote root rot. A sterile nutrient solution is ideal.


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## Bullethead21 (Nov 7, 2008)

This is not a top feeder its on eof those Bubbleponics. Its a 10 gallon tank I think, and I use 6 gallons of water in it. The pump pupms the water through tubes up to each net pot. Then there are airstones in the tank also. 

I wonder if I should drain completely your saying and fill it back up with h202 solution and just water or should I add back the nutes also?

I have to add about 1/6 tsp per gallon of water..thats seems like alot....I have 6 gallons of water in the tank......


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## NewGrowth (Nov 7, 2008)

Bullethead21 said:


> This is not a top feeder its on eof those Bubbleponics. Its a 10 gallon tank I think, and I use 6 gallons of water in it. The pump pupms the water through tubes up to each net pot. Then there are airstones in the tank also.
> 
> I wonder if I should drain completely your saying and fill it back up with h202 solution and just water or should I add back the nutes also?
> 
> I have to add about 1/6 tsp per gallon of water..thats seems like alot....I have 6 gallons of water in the tank......


I don't measure nutes in tsp/TSP or H202. The correct concentration of 35% h202 is 1.7ml/L. Add the h202 nutes all together. The problem with those bubbleponics and rockwool it they have those top dip feeds. Remove the drip feed it will promote root rot and over saturate the rockwool. It also does not encourage downward root growth.


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## Bullethead21 (Nov 7, 2008)

Ok, so basically your saying get rid of the pump pumping the water through the feed tubes into each net pot? I have 3 large airstones all with thier own air pump in a 10 gallon tank so its bubbling like crazy in there anyhow, That would solve my rock wool getting to wet issue also. Most all the roots of the plants are in the water anyhow and the ones that are not are so close to water at this point that they are getting splashed by bubble water for sure so this sounds logical to me.

Thanks for your information and help!

Oh onm the h202 mix...Im not sure what your mean. I have 3/5 solution and 6 gallons of water. Your saying use 35% with a 1.7ml to one liter ration of h202 to water correct?

Sorry Im a newb there and not usndertanding the mix part.


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## NewGrowth (Nov 7, 2008)

Bullethead21 said:


> Ok, so basically your saying get rid of the pump pumping the water through the feed tubes into each net pot? I have 3 large airstones all with thier own air pump in a 10 gallon tank so its bubbling like crazy in there anyhow, That would solve my rock wool getting to wet issue also. Most all the roots of the plants are in the water anyhow and the ones that are not are so close to water at this point that they are getting splashed by bubble water for sure so this sounds logical to me.
> 
> Thanks for your information and help!


Yep I don't know why they made those systems with a drip feed. The pump heats up the nutrient solution too.



> Oh onm the h202 mix...Im not sure what your mean. I have 3/5 solution and 6 gallons of water. Your saying use 35% with a 1.7ml to one liter ration of h202 to water correct?
> 
> Sorry Im a newb there and not usndertanding the mix part.


Yep the ratio is 1.7ml H202 per liter of nutrient solution


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## racer3456 (Nov 7, 2008)

hey i was browsing last night on some other cannabis boards and i came across someone talking about these nutrients. have you heard of them, and if so, are they really better than the competition? 
Great lakes garden supply


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## Bullethead21 (Nov 7, 2008)

Thanks again NewGrowth bud! I got it now!

Didnt even think about the heat generated by the pump...Duh! No wonder my tank level temps rise for no apparent reason after just 2 days after I just changed the tank..its back up to 72F to 75F.....

Hey about these Ionic nutrients you swear by, will they work in a Bubbleponic system like mine? I would like to try these nuts since you have been using them for so long with such good results, I also like the fact you change the N-P-K during stages deal.......


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## Bullethead21 (Nov 8, 2008)

Hey NewGrowth bud and others;

Im devisng/converting a water cooling PC system from a PC ( happen to be a system engineer by trade and have worked on PC's for 25 years now) to cool the tank water in a DWC system or a Bubbleponic system.

It could be mounted eiteher externally on the outside of the tank or say on a nearby shelf or something. Just so your close enough by max 6 feet.

The pump is 12Vv DC so any cheap 12V (300 to 800mA) DC output wall adapters like chargers can be used. YOu just splice two wires together and presto you can plug in your water cooling pump to any househole 110 outlet. SO that solves getting power easily and cheaply to the pump.

The other part is mounting the small radiator that these PC cooling kits come with and a 12v DC fan thats mounted to the back of the radiator to cool the water pasing through it, the fan im using is a nice 4.5 inch thermaltech fan. Same deal on wireing, can be mounted on the outside of the tank or on a nearby shelf that max 6 feet away. If you have a pc cooling kit you will have everything you need beside the cheap 12v DC adapters (you will need 2, one for the fan and one for pump). If you dont and are peicing this together, and 120mm pc fans will work. The larger the better to cool the small radiator, which you might have to order most likelt but they are cheap. Buying a complete PC ware cooling kit might better cheaper..will ahve to doa cost comparison of buying a kit or building from parts.....hmmmm 

So now you just run the tubes, You got instake tube that sucks water in from the tank, runs and cools the water through the raditaor, then out the other side of the radiator and back into the tank wit the chilled down water. Put the pump on a timer or whaterv leave it runnig 24/7 to see how your tank temps do.

Should take about an hour to install.

I can povice specidif details if anyone is interested in trying someting like this. AllI am needing is some tubing which Ill pick up today have a demo running by later tonight is the plan.

Peace!


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## Bullethead21 (Nov 8, 2008)

Sorry never heard of them...wasnt really to impressed by there site honestly but that dont mean alot I guess....




racer3456 said:


> hey i was browsing last night on some other cannabis boards and i came across someone talking about these nutrients. have you heard of them, and if so, are they really better than the competition?
> Great lakes garden supply


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## NewGrowth (Nov 8, 2008)

racer3456 said:


> hey i was browsing last night on some other cannabis boards and i came across someone talking about these nutrients. have you heard of them, and if so, are they really better than the competition?
> Great lakes garden supply


Hey racer, I checked out those nutrients. It seems like everybody in the growing community will tell you a different brand of nutrients is the "best". I think people should just use what works for them.
In my opinion organic and hydro don't mix, I have tried organic nutrients in the past and they are just not worth the hassle for these reasons:
1. Not compatible with h202
2. Often organic compounds are not fully water soluble and leave sediment that clogs drip lines, air stones ect
3. Higher risk of malignant bacterial growth, that can result in root rot



Bullethead21 said:


> Thanks again NewGrowth bud! I got it now!
> 
> Didnt even think about the heat generated by the pump...Duh! No wonder my tank level temps rise for no apparent reason after just 2 days after I just changed the tank..its back up to 72F to 75F.....


That is still an acceptable range for your reservoir temperature above 78 is a concern.



> Hey about these Ionic nutrients you swear by, will they work in a Bubbleponic system like mine? I would like to try these nuts since you have been using them for so long with such good results, I also like the fact you change the N-P-K during stages deal.......


Ionic nutes should work in any system. I just built a small 10 plant DWC system yesterday and am running Ionic. I'll be growing a feminized white strain.



Bullethead21 said:


> Hey NewGrowth bud and others;
> 
> Im devisng/converting a water cooling PC system from a PC ( happen to be a system engineer by trade and have worked on PC's for 25 years now) to cool the tank water in a DWC system or a Bubbleponic system.
> 
> ...


Post the link this sounds interesting! I have used home-made water chillers in larger operations but this might be a good way to control temps in a smaller reservoir.


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## .:SEXISTONER:. (Nov 8, 2008)

hi i am having a problem with one of my babies the leafs are turning white around the out side there is only one plant that is doin this and they are all the same strain. i already moved it away from the rest of them but y could this be happening


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## NewGrowth (Nov 8, 2008)

.:SEXISTONER:. said:


> hi i am having a problem with one of my babies the leafs are turning white around the out side there is only one plant that is doin this and they are all the same strain. i already moved it away from the rest of them but y could this be happening


Have any pictures? Need more info.
Soil or hydro? 
Fertilizers?
Soil/Rez pH?
Room temperature/humidity ect.

But a picture speaks a thousand words, hope I can help


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## .:SEXISTONER:. (Nov 8, 2008)

ok i got the pic how do i upload it to this site


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## .:SEXISTONER:. (Nov 8, 2008)

any way its not hidro they are basically house plants i took the males for a friend and he has no idea whats goin on wit it. it was in a room till a couple days ago when we discoverd its male and none of the females that where in the same room are doing that


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## NewGrowth (Nov 8, 2008)

.:SEXISTONER:. said:


> ok i got the pic how do i upload it to this site


Click "manage attachments" and upload your pics.



.:SEXISTONER:. said:


> any way its not hidro they are basically house plants i took the males for a friend and he has no idea whats goin on wit it. it was in a room till a couple days ago when we discoverd its male and none of the females that where in the same room are doing that


Then no problem right? Unless you want seeds . . .


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## .:SEXISTONER:. (Nov 8, 2008)

its not a very good pic and i already took of most of the damaged leafs


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## GypsyBush (Nov 8, 2008)

Hey NG...

I am always lost anyways, so I figured I'd tell you that I Love You...

And thanks for doing this....

I've been watching from day one...

Kick ass man... thanks!!!

Gypsy...


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## NewGrowth (Nov 8, 2008)

.:SEXISTONER:. said:


> its not a very good pic and i already took of most of the damaged leafs


Yellowing moving up the plant? Likely nitrogen deficient. If the leaves are not eventually turning yellow completely then is could be something else. From your pic the leaves are developing chlorosis (yellowing) in between the veins, if that is the case then you could be looking at a micronutrient problem. Don't run off and buy epson salts yet though! MOST micronutrient problems are caused by a pH problem preventing proper uptake. What is your water and soil pH?



GypsyBush said:


> Hey NG...
> 
> I am always lost anyways, so I figured I'd tell you that I Love You...
> 
> ...


I love you too Gypsy, thanks. I really should get a camera. I don't have pics of my previous ops for obvious reasons. But when I set up my next indoor I want to do a full photo documentary for RIU. From grow room construction to harvest.


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## Bullethead21 (Nov 9, 2008)

Hey NewGrowth-

YOu remember you gave me this advice a few days ago...

This one I can answer . . .
1. Place seeds between two layers of damp paper towel
2. Place this is a plastic bag to retain moisture
3. Place in a warm spot 
4. As soon as the seeds crack usually 24-48 hours place them in the pH adjusted rockwool cubes
5. Ensure the cubes are damp not wet
6. Seedlings should show in 24-48 hrs some plants are slower . . .


Welp, just to let ya know it worked like a champ!

I was wondering if you would post step 7 and continue please sir....

I have a cracked seedling in a rw cube all snug in hydroton rocks in the net basket in the Bubbleponics. I have a few other plants in there so I have the baby covered with a lid made of thick cardboard and reflective duct tape to keep him in the dark. 

He has now stuck his little head up through the rw cube and is about to unfold those first 2 leaves.

Should I leave him in the dark for a few days? Or should i put a dome over him for a few days now? If so about how long ya think?

Thanks a bunch!


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## NewGrowth (Nov 9, 2008)

Bullethead21 said:


> Hey NewGrowth-
> 
> YOu remember you gave me this advice a few days ago...
> 
> ...


Go ahead a put it under your lights. You can remove the humidity dome too. Just make sure the rockwool does not get too dry while you plants are small.


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## Bullethead21 (Nov 9, 2008)

Even though they are HID lights? Not sure I ever specified or if it will even make a difference anyhow, One 400w HPS and one 400w MH each with thier own ballast in a 10 sq foot area. Half the room is soil and the other half is a Bubbleponics "side" so to speak though it is not official by wife just yet, but we are close I think...lol

We grow veggies in soil and herbs also in the Bubbleponics and I want to try other seeds varieties as well.

Thanks again NewGrowth!


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## NewGrowth (Nov 9, 2008)

Bullethead21 said:


> Even though they are HID lights? Not sure I ever specified or if it will even make a difference anyhow, One 400w HPS and one 400w MH each with thier own ballast in a 10 sq foot area. Half the room is soil and the other half is a Bubbleponics "side" so to speak though it is not official by wife just yet, but we are close I think...lol
> 
> We grow veggies in soil and herbs also in the Bubbleponics and I want to try other seeds varieties as well.
> 
> Thanks again NewGrowth!


Seedlings will do fine under HID light. Just make sure the lights are far enough away not to burn them.


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## Bullethead21 (Nov 9, 2008)

Thanks bud!

Got some Pure Blend Pro "Grow" and the "Liquid Karma" and the Pure Blend "Bloom" kit. It was a small 8oz bottle of each so since Im new I thought i would try at least some of this stuff.

Anyone use this stuff before or have any feedback?

What do you use again New Growth? As for nutrients?


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## NewGrowth (Nov 9, 2008)

Bullethead21 said:


> Thanks bud!
> 
> Got some Pure Blend Pro "Grow" and the "Liquid Karma" and the Pure Blend "Bloom" kit. It was a small 8oz bottle of each so since Im new I thought i would try at least some of this stuff.
> 
> ...


I use Ionic brand nutrients. The Pure Blend product line contains organic compounds that are not compatible with h202.


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## Bullethead21 (Nov 9, 2008)

Thats go to know, Thanks! I wonder if this Physon 20 is any better and kinda does the same thing but better that h202? Have any evperience with that stuff?

I was hoping to get the wife to try the Pure Blend products on her soil plants ( I read a journal here where that is all the guy used and his plants and they turned out awsome!). Im trying to wing her off the MG time release crap with the little balls of death in them....I mean nutrients that are suppose to be time release. She promises to not use it anymore so Im getting her some clean fox farm soil or something...she will do soil and Ill do Hydro maybe....hehe


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## NewGrowth (Nov 9, 2008)

Bullethead21 said:


> Thats go to know, Thanks! I wonder if this Physon 20 is any better and kinda does the same thing but better that h202? Have any evperience with that stuff?
> 
> I was hoping to get the wife to try the Pure Blend products on her soil plants ( I read a journal here where that is all the guy used and his plants and they turned out awsome!). Im trying to wing her off the MG time release crap with the little balls of death in them....I mean nutrients that are suppose to be time release. She promises to not use it anymore so Im getting her some clean fox farm soil or something...she will do soil and Ill do Hydro maybe....hehe


I have never used that product I have used other enzyme based products. They are not nearly as effective as H202. I reserve organic gardening to soil, hydroponics is best suited for chemical nutrients. A good chemical nutrient will dissolve readily in water, provide a superior pH buffer, and be readily available for plant uptake. With chemical nutes the reservoir can also be sterilized with H202 reducing the risk for root disease, and aerobic bacteria robbing roots of available oxygen.
It just makes sense chemicals for hydro
Organics for soil.


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## Bullethead21 (Nov 9, 2008)

Sounds logical to me....the SH nutrients and h202 combo seems to be working well so far. Its slowly clearing up the browness in the root of that one plant. I did drain and clean and steralize the tank twice then went back with regular ph'd water, then added 1/4 nuts strength and about 1/6 teaspoon of 3% peroxide per gallon of water(6 gallons total).

SHe has been running on that since last night. So far so go, got a little plant growth on top and rot growth on bottom and everything looks nice and green (knock on wood)!

Thanks bud!


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## .:SEXISTONER:. (Nov 11, 2008)

hey thnks for ur help but i found out that is it just a diffrent kind of plant. cause now it looks healthy but the whole thing is turning a lighter color. we have a few females that are doing the same thing and the ph levels are normal.


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## flipsidesw (Nov 11, 2008)

Hey NewGrowth,

After getting my botanicare 3'x3'x7" flood table and thier 6" pots (3.338 euro gal.) I notice that i can only flood about 4" of the pot, a lil less than half the height of the pot. Is that normal? I understand that the nutrients will wick up the clay pebbles.


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## NewGrowth (Nov 11, 2008)

flipsidesw said:


> Hey NewGrowth,
> 
> After getting my botanicare 3'x3'x7" flood table and thier 6" pots (3.338 euro gal.) I notice that i can only flood about 4" of the pot, a lil less than half the height of the pot. Is that normal? I understand that the nutrients will wick up the clay pebbles.


Not really a problem unless you have small clones. If you are concerned just put your clones a little lower in the pots and fill around them with hydroton. Water level should come to about 2" below the cube.


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## flipsidesw (Nov 11, 2008)

o well than im set.Thanks for the info..


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## Secret Grower (Nov 13, 2008)

Hey NG. I'm using Ionic Growth right now my plants are 2 red diesels and 2 blue cheeses they are 2.5 weeks old. My ph is 5.8 and ec is 2.6 my tap water has a ppm of 550. The lower leaves had some heat stress at first as well as some nute burn I think. I have changed my reservoir at 2 weeks when the ph rose to 6.3. I hear you talking about a two part ionic series. Do you mean the Ionic Growth and the Ionic Bloom? Do you use the Boost?

Any comments on the plants would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks man you ROCK!!!!


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## marchold (Nov 13, 2008)

I have a question for you NG,
I have about 15 plants growing in coco in a ebb/flow tray under a 400w HPS. I also have 5 55w LED panels and 200w of CFL. I let my plants veg a little extra long to get a better yield. Right now several of my plants are growing up along side (above) the HPS light. I have been bending the plants as much as I can. I have a screen about 1' from my light which is behind glass with a slow air flow from computer fans. 
My question is should I cut back the plants that are too big. Right now I have been adding a few 20w or 40w CFL's in the corners of the closet. I also added a 90w UFO to grow plants under the air duct. I will be harvesting in about 1 1/2 months. I can try and bend them a bit more under the 400w HPS but if I cram too many plants under it the screen becomes a solid mass of leaves and blocks the light from the farher plants. It seems like the best thing is to let them grow and I will get good dense buds under the HPS and some not so good stuff under the rest. I am not sure if the whole batch will be less potent and maybe I would produce more THC by cutting back my plants so they fit under the 400w?

I also have an unused 4 4ft T5 hood that is not used now. But adding it seems like too much light for a 3x4x5 closet.

Thanks


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## NewGrowth (Nov 13, 2008)

Secret Grower said:


> Hey NG. I'm using Ionic Growth right now my plants are 2 red diesels and 2 blue cheeses they are 2.5 weeks old. My ph is 5.8 and ec is 2.6 my tap water has a ppm of 550. The lower leaves had some heat stress at first as well as some nute burn I think. I have changed my reservoir at 2 weeks when the ph rose to 6.3. I hear you talking about a two part ionic series. Do you mean the Ionic Growth and the Ionic Bloom? Do you use the Boost?
> Any comments on the plants would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks man you ROCK!!!!



Your e.c is WAY too high!!! 2.6=1820 ppm! Those plants are WAY too small for such high nutrient concentrations. I also hear that cheese is one of those coiunisuer "sensisitive strains". Back you ppm down to 500 and go from there . . .
1.Water level drops PPM goes up: Drop your nutrient strength in relationship to the PPM rise. 
2. Water level drops PPM stays the same: You may be able to fine tune you nutrient strength, if growth is vigorous leave it alone.
3. Water level drops PPM drops: Raise you nutrient strength in relationship too PPM drop.

I highlight that because that is your plants literally telling you how many nutes they want. You can achieve maximum nutrient economy (don't have to buy as many nutes) this way and at the same time achieve maximum plant growth and yield. 

I have use boost mid flowering with some high yielding "bumper crop" type strains that benefit from the extra P-K. Most of the time it is not needed. 



marchold said:


> I have a question for you NG,
> I have about 15 plants growing in coco in a ebb/flow tray under a 400w HPS. I also have 5 55w LED panels and 200w of CFL. I let my plants veg a little extra long to get a better yield. Right now several of my plants are growing up along side (above) the HPS light. I have been bending the plants as much as I can. I have a screen about 1' from my light which is behind glass with a slow air flow from computer fans.
> My question is should I cut back the plants that are too big. Right now I have been adding a few 20w or 40w CFL's in the corners of the closet. I also added a 90w UFO to grow plants under the air duct. I will be harvesting in about 1 1/2 months. I can try and bend them a bit more under the 400w HPS but if I cram too many plants under it the screen becomes a solid mass of leaves and blocks the light from the farher plants. It seems like the best thing is to let them grow and I will get good dense buds under the HPS and some not so good stuff under the rest. I am not sure if the whole batch will be less potent and maybe I would produce more THC by cutting back my plants so they fit under the 400w?
> 
> ...


If you can add the T5 the plant will benefit trust me. Do you have any pics of this crazy plant under all these lights? I would just let it grow use the little buds for making a shit load of bubble hash. Don't cut back for sure this plant is a work of art.


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## Secret Grower (Nov 13, 2008)

wouldn't that equal 1,00 ppm with the waters ppm being subtracted.


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## pipefitter248 (Nov 13, 2008)

can i put my seeds right into the hydroton clay i am going to be growing in a 30 gal tote with sprayers or should i use rockwool


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## NewGrowth (Nov 13, 2008)

Secret Grower said:


> wouldn't that equal 1,00 ppm with the waters ppm being subtracted.


Multiply ec by 500 so 2.6 x 500= 1300 this is a standard measurement using the electrical conductivity of salt (NaCl). Nutrients salts are a bit more conductive so I used another conversion chart and your ppm is somewhere between 1300-1800. Way to high for those small plants, back it down to 500 ppm and monitor drop to determine the correct nutrient concentration.  



pipefitter248 said:


> can i put my seeds right into the hydroton clay i am going to be growing in a 30 gal tote with sprayers or should i use rockwool



You need a starting media if you don't want to bother with rockwool rapid-rooter plugs are a good alternative.


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## mayan (Nov 13, 2008)

Hey New Growth!! Long time no see. Well, I'm happy to say that things are coming right along. Plants have been under 12/12 for about 23 days now and...well...I guess I'm dreaming of that blessed day, around Dec. 24, when the harvest grows nigh. 

So...a couple of questions. I'm using Pure Blend Pro Bloom and Liquid Karma. Are you a believer in flushing plants at the end. In my case, not so much for the taste, as for the leaching of sugars, etc?

Also, have you heard of Sweet by Botanicare? If so, any thoughts? I just heard about it tonight and find it intriguing.

Thnaks!


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## NewGrowth (Nov 13, 2008)

mayan said:


> Hey New Growth!! Long time no see. Well, I'm happy to say that things are coming right along. Plants have been under 12/12 for about 23 days now and...well...I guess I'm dreaming of that blessed day, around Dec. 24, when the harvest grows nigh.
> 
> So...a couple of questions. I'm using Pure Blend Pro Bloom and Liquid Karma. Are you a believer in flushing plants at the end. In my case, not so much for the taste, as for the leaching of sugars, etc?


I advocate flushing your plants on your first recorded run with that strain set-up ect. After you have optimized your ppm levels however it becomes unecessary as plants are only recieving what they need in terms of nutrients meaning no excess nutrient salt are being held by the plant to effect taste.

It is more of a commercial thing to not flush because you are trying to maximize yields and are not as concerned about taste. I think some un-flushed buds taste better than flushed buds sometimes. It really has to do with he skill of the grower I think.



> Also, have you heard of Sweet by Botanicare? If so, any thoughts? I just heard about it tonight and find it intriguing.
> 
> Thnaks!



I think organic additives provide for better tasting bud and I would NOT recommend flushing good organic buds. The availibility of increased micronutrients and complex organic compounds allow the buds to create more essential oils (terpenes) creating a more exotic taste, smell, and high.

The trade off is that organics and hydro don't mix well but you can not match the vigor you get with hydroponics. It's really all a trade off . .. good to hear from you mayan.


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## mightyboogie (Nov 15, 2008)

hallo
im using an aeroflo 20 and chemical ferts from GH.im changing my solution weekly.should i use the water filter or its recomended only for organic ferts???
tnx


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## NewGrowth (Nov 15, 2008)

mightyboogie said:


> hallo
> im using an aeroflo 20 and chemical ferts from GH.im changing my solution weekly.should i use the water filter or its recomended only for organic ferts???
> tnx


You should have some sort of filter(usually a foam insert) over the pump intake to prevent sediment or debris from entering the pump and damaging it. For an aeroponic system it is even more important as debris can quickly clog your misters.


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## mightyboogie (Nov 15, 2008)

this foam over the pump i have, but i also have a filter that you should put in the water tank with some white magic powder(some micro organism that sould kill the algae ang bacteria in the water) and some stars... from general hydroponics...is this necesary?


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## NewGrowth (Nov 15, 2008)

mightyboogie said:


> this foam over the pump i have, but i also have a filter that you should put in the water tank with some white magic powder(some micro organism that sould kill the algae ang bacteria in the water) and some stars... from general hydroponics...is this necesary?


Not sure what they are giving you there I assume they sent it as a kit. The only thing needed to keep your reservoir sterile is H202 35% @ 1.7mL/L.
If there is an additional pre-filter I would use it to prevent sediment from blocking the misters.


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## mightyboogie (Nov 16, 2008)

tnx a lot!you make growing lot easier
cheers


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## NewGrowth (Nov 16, 2008)

mightyboogie said:


> tnx a lot!you make growing lot easier
> cheers


Hydro is simple it just requires a basic knowledge of how the systems work and plant physiology and you will have high consistent yields in a relatively fast period of time.

Here is a basic lesson:

Important plant organs:

Roots
Need-Oxygen, Correct environment pH and temperature, Moisture, Nutrients, stabilizing medium, pathogen free environment

Leaves
Need- Light, Co2, temperature control, proper humidity, pathogen prevention

Buds
Need-Light, Co2, temperature control, lower humidity, pathogen prevention

A properly constructed grow room and hydro system will provide each of these needs at the perfect levels. This means you can achieve high yields in smaller spaces, hence the benefit of hydro with a SOG, SCROG grow is enormous.


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## hamburger (Nov 19, 2008)

Okay, so yesterday I was outta town, the plants im growing im growing at a friends house for personal reasons. He decided to get a new tray for our plants to sit in. He's not the chemist in the op so when I get back the the house I check out the ph, tds etc etc. Everything checks out fine. 12 hours later I go back and check the plants and they are drooped over like they are getting no water. The first thing that I noticed is that most of the silicone that was used to seal the drain plugs in now is the nute res for he did not allow the proper dry time. Im not sure if my water pump became temporarly plugged from this, but usually if i switch it on and off it ends up shooting water out again. <--- Im not sure if my partener did this before I arrived, so I have no previous knowledge if this is from underwatering. So my plants are now getting water so in a few hours I will most likely know there fate.

My question is are my plants just lacking water or is the silicone having somekind of intense effect on them. Im of course still changing out the water, should I just flush them out with some distilled before watering with a fresh res, this is if they survive? lol

Any good news on the silicone disolve in the water effecting them would be great about now, Im really hoping the silicone didnt have some type of chemical reaction with the plants roots? Maybe I'm just over reacting lol.. 

Plants of looked super great before this, 1 fem and 2 unknown ww at 18" after 1 month of veg. and I took my first chance at the diy walmart easy cloner, so far so good for my first grow and clone. 

Thanks in advance for your previous help and any input you can appropriate me with on this situation.


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## NewGrowth (Nov 19, 2008)

hamburger said:


> Okay, so yesterday I was outta town, the plants im growing im growing at a friends house for personal reasons. He decided to get a new tray for our plants to sit in. He's not the chemist in the op so when I get back the the house I check out the ph, tds etc etc. Everything checks out fine. 12 hours later I go back and check the plants and they are drooped over like they are getting no water. The first thing that I noticed is that most of the silicone that was used to seal the drain plugs in now is the nute res for he did not allow the proper dry time. Im not sure if my water pump became temporarly plugged from this, but usually if i switch it on and off it ends up shooting water out again. <--- Im not sure if my partener did this before I arrived, so I have no previous knowledge if this is from underwatering. So my plants are now getting water so in a few hours I will most likely know there fate.
> 
> My question is are my plants just lacking water or is the silicone having somekind of intense effect on them. Im of course still changing out the water, should I just flush them out with some distilled before watering with a fresh res, this is if they survive? lol


Yeah check the pump impeller for air-bubbles this can cause the pump to stop working, just upen it up clean it out an run it. i doubt its the silicone unless some came of and gunked up the pump.



> Any good news on the silicone disolve in the water effecting them would be great about now, Im really hoping the silicone didnt have some type of chemical reaction with the plants roots? Maybe I'm just over reacting lol..


 Yeah silicone is pretty inert I doubt it hurt your plants



> Plants of looked super great before this, 1 fem and 2 unknown ww at 18" after 1 month of veg. and I took my first chance at the diy walmart easy cloner, so far so good for my first grow and clone.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your previous help and any input you can appropriate me with on this situation.


Yeah just check the pump and see if there is air in the line or impeller, check you filters too.. Good luck


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## cocojimbo4925 (Nov 19, 2008)

Hey I have a question for you if you dont mind....I just got a general hydroponics 8 bucket setup from a friend.I have all tubes hooked up but have not filled it up yet.I just dont understand how gravity makes the drip system work.


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## NewGrowth (Nov 19, 2008)

cocojimbo4925 said:


> Hey I have a question for you if you dont mind....I just got a general hydroponics 8 bucket setup from a friend.I have all tubes hooked up but have not filled it up yet.I just dont understand how gravity makes the drip system work.


Your res needs to sit lower than the buckets in the 'dutch' bucket system. This can be accomplished by placing the buckets on bricks or milk crates. Bricks are good if you are growing larger plants. A bucket system is also made to grow fewer but larger plants.

The pump runs the drip emiters at the tops of the buckets and the nutrient solution runs out the bottom of the buckets through tubes back to the res.


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## magikal chronik (Dec 17, 2008)

*1. Is their anything i can get to help keep my temps down in my res.?Besides a fan. 

2 What's a good temp. for my plants to be in ? I got a therm lol. so i thought i'd have it at a good temp. *

*3. When should i move the AG lights up? When they just grow up to the light ? lol. *

*I have my grow in my sig. It's my first grow.*


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## marchold (Dec 17, 2008)

I have been growing in coco in an ebb-flow system. I have a 50gal reservoir that fills 2 trays a 2'x2' for veg and a 2'x3' under a 400w HPS. I use canna coco nutrients and beneficial fungi, sweet citrus, and this ooze bloom stuff. My plants look good for the most part but my PH goes up a lot. Like from 5.8 to 6.2 overnight then 6.5 by 24hours. So I just PH down each day. My tap water starts out at ph 8 and ppm less than 100. People say too much PH down is bad. It would be nice to not have to muck with it each day if nothing else. Any suggestions or ideas?


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## NewGrowth (Dec 17, 2008)

magikal chronik said:


> *1. Is their anything i can get to help keep my temps down in my res.?Besides a fan. *


*

Hey man, yes you can make your own water chiller, just pick up 1/4" copper tubing and make a coil. Fit garden hose to either end by attaching fittings and using hose clamps. They sell all this stuff at the hardware store. Then attach one end to running cold water. The cool water flowing through the copper tubes will cool your solution. Someone in here was also looking into using a liquid computer cooling kit to drop res temps as well.

2



What's a good temp. for my plants to be in ? I got a therm lol. so i thought i'd have it at a good temp.

Click to expand...

*74 F is optimal for growth and flowering of marijuana. Anything within the range of 68-85F will grow plants but try to keep it around 74 F



> *3. When should i move the AG lights up? When they just grow up to the light ? lol. *
> 
> *I have my grow in my sig. It's my first grow.*


Yeah I would let them just grow and touch those little flouros not much heat there.


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## NewGrowth (Dec 17, 2008)

marchold said:


> I have been growing in coco in an ebb-flow system. I have a 50gal reservoir that fills 2 trays a 2'x2' for veg and a 2'x3' under a 400w HPS. I use canna coco nutrients and beneficial fungi, sweet citrus, and this ooze bloom stuff. My plants look good for the most part but my PH goes up a lot. Like from 5.8 to 6.2 overnight then 6.5 by 24hours. So I just PH down each day. My tap water starts out at ph 8 and ppm less than 100. People say too much PH down is bad. It would be nice to not have to muck with it each day if nothing else. Any suggestions or ideas?


It must be those nutes and that semi-organic set-up you have going. Sounds like yummy buds though.
But seriously it sounds like you are running a heavy salt solution and your plants roots are not using it all. How is the PPM flux in your res? Why not use a drip system with coco? Try flushing out the system with water and then adjusting your nutrient solution strength. The key is the plants use water and nutrients at the same rate, if your PPM levels do not show this adjust nutrient strength accordingly. Getting this just right will stabilize your Ph.



curious.george said:


> cool thread, subscribe...


Welcome


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## magikal chronik (Dec 18, 2008)

NewGrowth said:


> Hey man, yes you can make your own water chiller, just pick up 1/4" copper tubing and make a coil. Fit garden hose to either end by attaching fittings and using hose clamps. They sell all this stuff at the hardware store. Then attach one end to running cold water. The cool water flowing through the copper tubes will cool your solution. Someone in here was also looking into using a liquid computer cooling kit to drop res temps as well.
> 
> 2
> 
> ...


Thanks bro a lot ! 
I'm going to invest and an HPS/MH for my next grow. 
These are my plants at like 2 and a half weeks.


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## onthedl0008 (Dec 18, 2008)

NEWGROWTH! Nice thread bro.. I was curious ive seen and heard alot of things and im really tightening down my grow. My question is what are the actuall ppm levels people should strive for in the different stages especially latter stages of flower?
Any help would be appreciated


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## curious.george (Dec 18, 2008)

note: marchold and curious.george are both me. I just changed to a cooler forum handle.



NewGrowth said:


> It must be those nutes and that semi-organic set-up you have going. Sounds like yummy buds though.


So you think its all the beneficial fungi and bacteria eating the sugars and upping the PH? 



NewGrowth said:


> But seriously it sounds like you are running a heavy salt solution and your plants roots are not using it all. How is the PPM flux in your res?


My PPM stays amazingly stable. I use 1000 ppm or 1200 ppm and the PPM does not drift more than 100ppm in 2 weeks. It almost seems hard to believe that when there is only 10 gallons left it is still at 1250ppm.




NewGrowth said:


> Why not use a drip system with coco?


because drip emitters can get clogged an I like to keep it simple. Would drip be better? I read somewhere that when coco dries it ups the ph? Is this why? 




NewGrowth said:


> Try flushing out the system with water and then adjusting your nutrient solution strength. The key is the plants use water and nutrients at the same rate, if your PPM levels do not show this adjust nutrient strength accordingly. Getting this just right will stabilize your Ph.


Hmm... Is it not already right?

Thanks! 

I was thinking of stopping with the beneficial fungi and doing my next grow with h2o2. 


As to the drip system.


----------



## NewGrowth (Dec 18, 2008)

onthedl0008 said:


> NEWGROWTH! Nice thread bro.. I was curious ive seen and heard alot of things and im really tightening down my grow. My question is what are the actuall ppm levels people should strive for in the different stages especially latter stages of flower?
> Any help would be appreciated


Nutrient concentration is dependent on plant strain, size and many other environmental factors. For example Ak-47 will not tolerate the same nutrient levels as White Widow. Here is a good guide to determine what nutrient concentration you should be running.
*1.Water level drops PPM goes up: Drop your nutrient strength in relationship to the PPM rise. 
2. Water level drops PPM stays the same: You may be able to fine tune you nutrient strength, if growth is vigorous leave it alone.
3. Water level drops PPM drops: Raise you nutrient strength in relationship too PPM drop.*


curious.george said:


> note: marchold and curious.george are both me. I just changed to a cooler forum handle.
> So you think its all the beneficial fungi and bacteria eating the sugars and upping the PH?


Maybe, I have not worked with coco myself and have limited experience with organic hydro, it was just too frustrating and unpredictable to me.

Daylight photosynthesis produces hydrogen ions which can cause the nutrient acidity to increase (lowering the pH). At dusk photosynthesis stops and the plants increase their rate of respiration and this coupled with the respiration of micro organisms and the decomposition of organic matter uses up the hydrogen ions so the acidity of the solution tends to decrease ( pH rises )

Can you up the nitrogen ratio in you res a bit? See if that helps, I think the microbes are using up nitrogen faster than the plants and upping your Nitrogen content may help stabilize your Ph. Maintain the same PPM but add more nitrogen.



> My PPM stays amazingly stable. I use 1000 ppm or 1200 ppm and the PPM does not drift more than 100ppm in 2 weeks. It almost seems hard to believe that when there is only 10 gallons left it is still at 1250ppm.


Well eliminate that possibility




> because drip emitters can get clogged an I like to keep it simple. Would drip be better? I read somewhere that when coco dries it ups the ph? Is this why?


Its possible but I always thought quality coco-coir was treated and was a rather inert media.




> Hmm... Is it not already right?
> Thanks!
> I was thinking of stopping with the beneficial fungi and doing my next grow with h2o2.


Sounds right to me . . .
H202 will not work well with coco, it breaks down too quickly.



> As to the drip system.


I was just wondering, keep the flood table if its working!
Good luck man! I'll see if I can find some more info about coco, I think a buddy of mine is using it I'll ask him.


----------



## onthedl0008 (Dec 18, 2008)

THanks new growth thats about where im at...lol u deffinately if anything just kinda gave me a boost of confidence tho. And maybe some ego to.


----------



## Ramon66 (Dec 18, 2008)

I need to know which nute work best for a flood and drain system. I am currently using GH micro and grow.
I was running PH at 6.5, but getting what appears to be just slight nitrogene def at tips and edges. clones were 2" whenarrive, 3weeks and 3 days later most are around 12" some a bit bigger some a bit smaller. over all look very good and healthy just trying to get everything perfect before swtching to bloom.

oh I dropped PH to 6 today, to see what happens nutes are at full now, but this has been a problem since the start when nute where at 1/2.


----------



## Ramon66 (Dec 18, 2008)

just incase here is what I am working with. flood and drain.
co2, 1700ppm avarage.
heat 88.
RH 64.
fans on every 1/2 hr for 15 min.
exuast and intake every 12 hrs. was more freequent but exuast removes the co2 way too fats. fans are fine.
grow medium hydroton clay
gh micro
gh grow
and gh bloom when switching. I flush every 2 weeks. will flush on sunday again.
problems lower leaves some yellow all others green with tiny bit of yellow on some and tips slightly currled.

plans.
add bushmaster manually once a week for 2 weeks, 2 weeks into flower.
use gravity till final flush.
add molasses for final 2 weeks in plain water.


----------



## NewGrowth (Dec 18, 2008)

Ramon66 said:


> I need to know which nute work best for a flood and drain system. I am currently using GH micro and grow.


The best nutrient brand is the one that works for you. I use Ionic brand nutrients myself. General Hydroponics gives good results.



> I was running PH at 6.5, but getting what appears to be just slight nitrogene def at tips and edges. clones were 2" whenarrive, 3weeks and 3 days later most are around 12" some a bit bigger some a bit smaller. over all look very good and healthy just trying to get everything perfect before swtching to bloom.


You Ph should be 5.8 in hrdro



> oh I dropped PH to 6 today, to see what happens nutes are at full now, but this has been a problem since the start when nute where at 1/2.


Do you have a PPM meter?




Ramon66 said:


> just incase here is what I am working with. flood and drain.
> co2, 1700ppm avarage.
> heat 88.
> RH 64.
> ...


There should be no need to flush the system every two weeks if you are running correct nutrient concentrations. Just change out you solution every two weeks and top of with fresh water between changes. 
I would not use molasses either.


----------



## Ramon66 (Dec 18, 2008)

NewGrowth said:


> The best nutrient brand is the one that works for you. I use Ionic brand nutrients myself. General Hydroponics gives good results.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


whats wrong with molasses?

and thanks for the info.


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## flipsidesw (Dec 19, 2008)

Sup NewGrowth!

My hydro guy started carrying that ionic stuff youve been talking about. He also started carrying that Cutting edge solutions. The ces is ultra cheap. 10 bucks a quart. IM trying to find the easiest nutes to use for the cheapest. I know you like that ionic. I was just curious about that Ces. You know anything about it?

Do you run any bloom boosters at all?


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## Ramon66 (Dec 19, 2008)

ok went and bought a 3 in 1 PH PPM and temp meter.
reduced my PH to 5.6 figured it will leach up by tomarrow.
set my PPM to 1500 in full veg. but my res temp was 82F.
my room temps are 88-90 lights on 74-76 lights off with 1500-1700PPM co2 and 64-66RH. co2 off when lights are off.
I drainned half the water and added fresh water but temp only came dow to 75. it will go up quick. is this too high, and if so, how do I reduce water temp?
should I put res outside room?


----------



## NewGrowth (Dec 19, 2008)

Ramon66 said:


> whats wrong with molasses?
> and thanks for the info.


Molasses works by providing beneficial microbes with food. Works very well in organic soil grows. In hydro you are asking for trouble, gunked up pumps and microbial nasties taking over. Just keep it clean and simple with H202.



flipsidesw said:


> Sup NewGrowth!
> My hydro guy started carrying that ionic stuff youve been talking about. He also started carrying that Cutting edge solutions. The ces is ultra cheap. 10 bucks a quart. IM trying to find the easiest nutes to use for the cheapest. I know you like that ionic. I was just curious about that Ces. You know anything about it?
> 
> Do you run any bloom boosters at all?


Never heard of Ces, do you have a link? At ten bucks a quart why not try it out though. If it suck you can always use it on your house plants.
No bloom boosters here, Ionic boost if I feel they need it. Just nutrients and H202 for me 
Glad to se you still lurking bro! 



Ramon66 said:


> ok went and bought a 3 in 1 PH PPM and temp meter.
> reduced my PH to 5.6 figured it will leach up by tomarrow.
> set my PPM to 1500 in full veg. but my res temp was 82F.
> my room temps are 88-90 lights on 74-76 lights off with 1500-1700PPM co2 and 64-66RH. co2 off when lights are off.
> ...


Hey man, yes you can make your own water chiller, just pick up 1/4" copper tubing and make a coil. Fit garden hose to either end by attaching fittings and using hose clamps. They sell all this stuff at the hardware store. Then attach one end to running cold water. The cool water flowing through the copper tubes will cool your solution. Someone in here was also looking into using a liquid computer cooling kit to drop res temps as well. (I posted this earlier). If you are on a budget freeze a bunch of water bottles and drop them in your res. And yes 82 is too high, the higher the reservoir temps the less oxygen your nutrient solution will hold. These means root rot , not good.

Sounds like you need some heat control too 90F is pushing the limit.


----------



## Ramon66 (Dec 19, 2008)

NewGrowth said:


> Hey man, yes you can make your own water chiller, just pick up 1/4" copper tubing and make a coil. Fit garden hose to either end by attaching fittings and using hose clamps. They sell all this stuff at the hardware store. Then attach one end to running cold water. The cool water flowing through the copper tubes will cool your solution. Someone in here was also looking into using a liquid computer cooling kit to drop res temps as well. (I posted this earlier). If you are on a budget freeze a bunch of water bottles and drop them in your res. And yes 82 is too high, the higher the reservoir temps the less oxygen your nutrient solution will hold. These means root rot , not good. so even when its a flood and drain? the roots stay sitting in clay with no water just air, then get wtaer for 20min and drain again.they are feeding 4 times a day. so they get about 5+ hrs inbetween feeding with just air. hydroton doesnt hold any water.
> 
> Sounds like you need some heat control too 90F is pushing the limit.


 I have read that as long as co2 is at 1500-1700, temps can reach 95 with no detrimental effects. infact they say to run higher temps 90-95 with higher humidity as high as 95%. the humidty seems high to me so I keep it in the mid 60s. I will drop the temps to 84-88
I can control just about everything in this room. except water temp.
I am going to do like you said and freez bottles. add at night and in the am.

and thanks again for all the help.


----------



## NewGrowth (Dec 19, 2008)

Ramon66 said:


> I have read that as long as co2 is at 1500-1700, temps can reach 95 with no detrimental effects. infact they say to run higher temps 90-95 with higher humidity as high as 95%. the humidty seems high to me so I keep it in the mid 60s. I will drop the temps to 84-88
> I can control just about everything in this room. except water temp.
> I am going to do like you said and freez bottles. add at night and in the am.
> 
> and thanks again for all the help.


You are correct I forgot you had a flood a drain with hydroton. You can have higher temps with CO2 yes. Slightly higher temps with CO2 80's seem to give even better growth as well. Its interesting . . .

The only concern with the high rez temp could be bacterial growth. Are you using H202? It seems if you can maintain a sterile rez with H202 temps will not be much of a concern.

Lower humidity is better especially in flowering, it promotes better bud density and reduces the chance of moldy buds.


----------



## Ramon66 (Dec 19, 2008)

well after reading all your posts, I realized I needed h2o2. so I ordered a couple gallons. I will suppliment tomarrow with the 3% till the 35% comes in.
and I will be dropping down to 50s RH when I see bud. I am going to stay in the 80s from now on with temp. thanks so much for all the help. I will let you know how things progress.


----------



## NewGrowth (Dec 19, 2008)

Ramon66 said:


> well after reading all your posts, I realized I needed h2o2. so I ordered a couple gallons. I will suppliment tomarrow with the 3% till the 35% comes in.
> and I will be dropping down to 50s RH when I see bud. I am going to stay in the 80s from now on with temp. thanks so much for all the help. I will let you know how things progress.


Sounds good man I have a feeling things are going to progress very well


----------



## greenacres (Dec 21, 2008)

excellent thread NG learned alot thanks


----------



## Secret Grower (Dec 21, 2008)

Secret Grower said:


> Hey NG. I'm using Ionic Growth right now my plants are 2 red diesels and 2 blue cheeses they are 2.5 weeks old. My ph is 5.8 and ec is 2.6 my tap water has a ppm of 550. The lower leaves had some heat stress at first as well as some nute burn I think. I have changed my reservoir at 2 weeks when the ph rose to 6.3. I hear you talking about a two part ionic series. Do you mean the Ionic Growth and the Ionic Bloom? Do you use the Boost?
> 
> Any comments on the plants would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks man you ROCK!!!!


OK NG here I was just over a month ago and here I am today 2.5 weeks into flowering at the time of the photo. 

Questions: How often do you add 35% h2o2 I have been adding it 1 a week but here I need to add it twice a week... Yes/No?

I'm using Ionic nutes at 980 ppms into the 3 week of flowering. Should I bump that up to about 1500? 

400W HPS DWC 4 plants 2 red diesels 2 blue cheeses avg temp 79 f. ph 5.8 

Thanks again!

Here they are at 2.5 weeks into flowering.


----------



## Secret Grower (Dec 21, 2008)

Oooops my bad...


----------



## magikal chronik (Dec 22, 2008)

*Hey NG, *

I have a quick question. Whats the best way to "flush my AG res.? It's been almost 3 weeks and I need to flush it I believe, to make sure nothing is clogged up or anyhting growing in their. Thanks


----------



## NewGrowth (Dec 22, 2008)

Secret Grower said:


> OK NG here I was just over a month ago and here I am today 2.5 weeks into flowering at the time of the photo.
> 
> Questions: How often do you add 35% h2o2 I have been adding it 1 a week but here I need to add it twice a week... Yes/No?
> 
> ...


I just add it when I change my rez every two weeks. If I run into serious problems high concentrations can help clean out the rez 10ml/L but notmally its just 35% @ 1.7ml/L everytime I change the rez out. You can add it every week if the roots look unhealthy. 

Bump up your nutes to 1200 PPM and see how they respond. Watch the PPM drop, if they like it bump them up a bit more.



Secret Grower said:


> Oooops my bad...


Nice looking plants.



magikal chronik said:


> *Hey NG, *
> 
> I have a quick question. Whats the best way to "flush my AG res.? It's been almost 3 weeks and I need to flush it I believe, to make sure nothing is clogged up or anyhting growing in their. Thanks


I'm not sure what you mean. Change out your nutrient solution completely every two weeks and top off with fresh PH adjusted water in between changes.


----------



## MistyXMountainXTop (Dec 22, 2008)

I'm in an aerogarden, using FoxFarm- grow big, tiger bloom and big bloom. I'm 2 or 3 weeks into flowering. The biggest of my two girls has been showing sex longer than the other, but her leaves are kinda saggy and curly. My book says saggy leaves in hydroponics either means over feeding or under feeding. But My other plant isn't reacting the same way, and it's like 1/3 of the size. 
I used like 1 tspn of grow big, 1 1/2 tspn of tiger bloom, and a little more than 2 tspn of big bloom. Why would only one, and the bigger one at that, be sagging? Sorry I'm rambling, Stoooned. Thanks ahead of time. Later on.


----------



## GypsyBush (Dec 23, 2008)

MistyXMountainXTop said:


> I'm in an aerogarden, using FoxFarm- grow big, tiger bloom and big bloom. I'm 2 or 3 weeks into flowering. The biggest of my two girls has been showing sex longer than the other, but her leaves are kinda saggy and curly. My book says saggy leaves in hydroponics either means over feeding or under feeding. But My other plant isn't reacting the same way, and it's like 1/3 of the size.
> I used like 1 tspn of grow big, 1 1/2 tspn of tiger bloom, and a little more than 2 tspn of big bloom. Why would only one, and the bigger one at that, be sagging? Sorry I'm rambling, Stoooned. Thanks ahead of time. Later on.


Sorry to butt in...

Would this help??

They do make cheaper ones too....



GypsyBush said:


> In my opinion, and I AM A NEWB... the best way to regulate your nutes is with a TDS/EC meter...
> 
> It will give the PPM (Parts Per Million) of your solution, allowing you to fine tune your solution to your plant's specific needs...
> 
> ...


----------



## Eharmony420 (Dec 23, 2008)

new growth, senor,

ever grow in 4 inch rockwool cubes? I have a grow going 2 weeks into flower. Looking awesome. 

If you have any experience you can share with them or little things learned I would appreciate it as the girls in flower are the only good or fixable part of my grow. dont ask.

I dont want to ask a lame yeild questiom but can i hope to see a good running from my girls in 4 in cubes or do I need bigger pots? I am getting a paranoic worry that the cubes may be a sog thing! Ahhh. 

3 in flower (dont ask) and ebb and flow. 

Gh 3 part with flora micro hardwater. I have hydroguard, kool bloom, big bud, and bloombastic. I have yet to add any enhancers. Doing that tonight. I cant mix bigbud and bloomblastic I know, said the hydro shop, but any advice on kool bloom and bloomblastic. I am thinking no, as bloomblstic is a 0-20-21 and wow that is high. Organic too. 

I switched from h202 to hydroguard for organics.

ty for letting me share my grow, thanl you for any response.


----------



## erickw1822 (Jan 21, 2009)

Im using an ebb and flow system.. my 6 girls are about 3 weeks old and i accidentally stretched them... but now they are doing ok.. the stems got some stength to them and they arn't leaning anymore... but my leaves are starting to curl under and one of the tips on one of the plants is turning brown... i was thinking i was over watering so i changed it from (15min every 3 hours) to (15 min every 4 hours). the Nutes are at 420, the ph is a high 5, and the lights are 400w 24/7.. what should i do.. any help out there?


----------



## NewGrowth (Jan 21, 2009)

MistyXMountainXTop said:


> I'm in an aerogarden, using FoxFarm- grow big, tiger bloom and big bloom. I'm 2 or 3 weeks into flowering. The biggest of my two girls has been showing sex longer than the other, but her leaves are kinda saggy and curly. My book says saggy leaves in hydroponics either means over feeding or under feeding. But My other plant isn't reacting the same way, and it's like 1/3 of the size.
> I used like 1 tspn of grow big, 1 1/2 tspn of tiger bloom, and a little more than 2 tspn of big bloom. Why would only one, and the bigger one at that, be sagging? Sorry I'm rambling, Stoooned. Thanks ahead of time. Later on.



Those aerogardens are DWC I believe. If not gypsy can correct me. Drooping leaves usually indicate a root-zone problem. Possibly root zone pathogens or improperly aerated roots. What did you use as a starting media? Rockwool Rapid rooters? Make sure that media is not over wet if you have small plants. Adding some h202 to the res might help as well (maybe an extra air stone for larger plants?).
Good Luck! Any pics?

Ps- Gypsy is right pick up a tds an ph meter or test kit, hannah makes good stuff but bluelab is the best. Measure your nutes in ML makes it easier to measure and is a more precise measurement.



Eharmony420 said:


> new growth, senor,
> 
> ever grow in 4 inch rockwool cubes? I have a grow going 2 weeks into flower. Looking awesome.
> 
> If you have any experience you can share with them or little things learned I would appreciate it as the girls in flower are the only good or fixable part of my grow. dont ask.


Yeah if you grow your plants to any height be sure to anchor the cubes and support the buds, plants like to topple when they get tall and top heavy.



> I dont want to ask a lame yeild questiom but can i hope to see a good running from my girls in 4 in cubes or do I need bigger pots? I am getting a paranoic worry that the cubes may be a sog thing! Ahhh.


No need for bigger pots, the roots will grow out into the tray, cover the root zone with black and white poly. The benefit of hydro is roots don't have to be as big so you can pack more plants in a smaller space. Not sure of your yield though that is kind of a fortune teller question. Depends on to many factors.


[QUOITE]3 in flower (dont ask) and ebb and flow. 

Gh 3 part with flora micro hardwater. I have hydroguard, kool bloom, big bud, and bloombastic. I have yet to add any enhancers. Doing that tonight. I cant mix bigbud and bloomblastic I know, said the hydro shop, but any advice on kool bloom and bloomblastic. I am thinking no, as bloomblstic is a 0-20-21 and wow that is high. Organic too. 

I switched from h202 to hydroguard for organics.

ty for letting me share my grow, thanl you for any response.[/QUOTE]


I don't use any additives just Ionic, Bloom, Grow, and Boost. H202 and that is it. The bloom boosters are meant for mid to late flowering when bud growth reaches its peak. You have to time them right from what I have seen. I add boost in the last two weeks then flush for a few days.



erickw1822 said:


> Im using an ebb and flow system.. my 6 girls are about 3 weeks old and i accidentally stretched them... but now they are doing ok.. the stems got some stength to them and they arn't leaning anymore... but my leaves are starting to curl under and one of the tips on one of the plants is turning brown... i was thinking i was over watering so i changed it from (15min every 3 hours) to (15 min every 4 hours). the Nutes are at 420, the ph is a high 5, and the lights are 400w 24/7.. what should i do.. any help out there?


What media are you using hydroton, rockwool floc, ect? Sounds like and overwatering issue, how fast does you table drain? Flooding less often and making it drain a bit slower can help to draw oxygen into the root zone. Adding h202 can also help with rootzone problems.


----------



## erickw1822 (Jan 21, 2009)

im using rockwool....


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## NewGrowth (Jan 22, 2009)

erickw1822 said:


> im using rockwool....


Water half as much, every six hours and add some h202 to your rez.


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## mightyboogie (Jan 22, 2009)

hallo Newgrowth
my plants are in the last 2 weeks of flowering.i 'm using a hydro bucket system.i'm using clean water now for flushing...how often shuld i change it?(previous week when still using ferts i was changing the water every 4-5 days).


----------



## NewGrowth (Jan 22, 2009)

mightyboogie said:


> hallo Newgrowth
> my plants are in the last 2 weeks of flowering.i 'm using a hydro bucket system.i'm using clean water now for flushing...how often shuld i change it?(previous week when still using ferts i was changing the water every 4-5 days).


I change my reservoir every two weeks. Are your buckets hooked to a reservoir or are they independent?


----------



## GypsyBush (Jan 23, 2009)

You got it... DWC with a POURER instead of a dripper...

As soon as my roots touched the water i disconnected the (over)water pump and left the airstone to do it's job...

Have you noticed that the new AG mopdels have no (over)water pump and now incorporate an airstone instead...????

On a different note... I am dabbing in a bit of ebb n flow...

and I see scary posts about over watering... and people flooding their tables once a day 2x max...

Shit man... I have been flooding for 15 min EVERY HOUR.... and my plants seem to LOVE it... 

What gives...????

My res cool, I have not added H2o2, I have 2x 10" airstones for a 50 gal res...

Hydroton filled 1 gal pots and rapid rooters... other than a new batch that went in rockwool... yuck...

I keep both RW and RR well above flood level...

Why are my plants not dying from over watering????

I mean, why is everyone else's plants suffering from something I (over) do every day 12 x a day...?!?!?!?

Anyways.. I'm high... the Indica is kicking my ass... gotta move...lol...

Take care Brother!!!!


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## NewGrowth (Jan 23, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> You got it... DWC with a POURER instead of a dripper...
> 
> As soon as my roots touched the water i disconnected the (over)water pump and left the airstone to do it's job...
> 
> ...



People are using different media that hold more water thats all. You can flood hydroton a lot more often than rockwool. You also keep your cubes 1/4" or more above flood level, this is important to prevent rot as well.


----------



## mightyboogie (Jan 23, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> People are using different media that hold more water thats all. You can flood hydroton a lot more often than rockwool. You also keep your cubes 1/4" or more above flood level, this is important to prevent rot as well.





> Are your buckets hooked to a reservoir or are they independent?


i have 6 buckets connected to a 70 liter reservoir.


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## onthedl0008 (Jan 23, 2009)

NG ... Been having problems with heat issues lately in my hydro set-up.. Got my res consistently around 70-74 during the day and the room temps are around 78-82.. Need to get an upright ac unit i know.. But what would u say is the hottest room temps ur room can get before ur grow is in jeopardy? I know the lows but have been faced with all kinds of new heat issues lately. Determined to get my grow back inline!
And havent been able to get any str8 up answers anywhere as a matter of fact bro.


----------



## Matty10 (Jan 23, 2009)

Help!!! This is my first grow.

I just bought 4 clones from a Co-op and got them started 3 days ago. I am using a drip system with rockwool and hydroton. I have 2 OG, 1 jack the Ripper, and 1 White Widow. I asked the hydro store guys and they told me to water 1 X a day for 30min. My leaves felt dry so I talked to a friend. This is the guy that gave me most of the stuff for my setup. He told me that I need to water for 15min every 3 hrs. So I tried that... my leaves are turning yellow. I stopped watering them so the rockwool can drain. The guy I know, also told me that my light was too close, so I raised it. Do you think that might have been the problem the whole time? I want to know what you guys think. I just want to make sure that I am not have a nuet problem.

Also I was debating on purchasing a air pump and some air stones. I have a 15 gal rez but only use 10 gal of water. What kind of pump do you think I can get by with for 10 gallons of water? I really don't have a lot of money so I was hoping it will be cheap.

Pic #1 Jack the Ripper
Pic #2 Og

Thank You

Matt


----------



## NewGrowth (Jan 23, 2009)

onthedl0008 said:


> NG ... Been having problems with heat issues lately in my hydro set-up.. Got my res consistently around 70-74 during the day and the room temps are around 78-82.. Need to get an upright ac unit i know.. But what would u say is the hottest room temps ur room can get before ur grow is in jeopardy? I know the lows but have been faced with all kinds of new heat issues lately. Determined to get my grow back inline!
> And havent been able to get any str8 up answers anywhere as a matter of fact bro.


Hydroponic plants can tolerate higher temperatures. A reservoir temperature of 74 F is not really a problem, near 80 and total dissolved oxygen drops dramatically and anaerobic bacteria start moving in. Your room temps sound fine, cannabis plants can easily survive temperatures above 90 F as long as they are not exposed to high temps for prolonged periods. 



Matty10 said:


> Help!!! This is my first grow.
> 
> I just bought 4 clones from a Co-op and got them started 3 days ago. I am using a drip system with rockwool and hydroton. I have 2 OG, 1 jack the Ripper, and 1 White Widow. I asked the hydro store guys and they told me to water 1 X a day for 30min. My leaves felt dry so I talked to a friend. This is the guy that gave me most of the stuff for my setup. He told me that I need to water for 15min every 3 hrs. So I tried that... my leaves are turning yellow. I stopped watering them so the rockwool can drain. The guy I know, also told me that my light was too close, so I raised it. Do you think that might have been the problem the whole time? I want to know what you guys think. I just want to make sure that I am not have a nuet problem.


It sounds like your flood level is set too high it should be a 1/4" below the rockwool cube. The rockwool should be moist not soaked.



> Also I was debating on purchasing a air pump and some air stones. I have a 15 gal rez but only use 10 gal of water. What kind of pump do you think I can get by with for 10 gallons of water? I really don't have a lot of money so I was hoping it will be cheap.
> 
> Pic #1 Jack the Ripper
> Pic #2 Og
> ...


A small air pump can be purchased new at the pet store for like $5. Those small fish tank pumps should be fine for your small reservoir. Good luck!


----------



## Matty10 (Jan 23, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> A small air pump can be purchased new at the pet store for like $5. Those small fish tank pumps should be fine for your small reservoir. Good luck!


Great thanks... Do you recommend using one?

Thank You

Matt


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## NewGrowth (Jan 23, 2009)

Matty10 said:


> Great thanks... Do you recommend using one?
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Matt


Anything to help root zone aeration is good.


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## onthedl0008 (Jan 23, 2009)

How do u grow NG? Soil, hydro? What method bro? Alot of the things u say makes sence to my style just curious how ur growing bro OUT


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## NewGrowth (Jan 23, 2009)

onthedl0008 said:


> How do u grow NG? Soil, hydro? What method bro? Alot of the things u say makes sence to my style just curious how ur growing bro OUT


I have grown using Flood Tables, Aeroponics, and DWC. Right now I have an Aeroponic set up and a DWC set up for growing out my mothers which is what I am currently doing.

I'll be building an aeroponic fog set up and posting pics in a month or so. I agreed to buy a camera in exchange for some scooby snacks.


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## onthedl0008 (Jan 23, 2009)

Cool man U prolly did the whole dwc thing in the past haha. Looking forward to ur grow man sounds like it will be pretty insane im sure. Anyways thanks for ur help. It all actually makes me feel better.


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## cheddar97008 (Jan 24, 2009)

You want to get your water temp down; ideally well below 80..


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## Pirate420 (Jan 24, 2009)

Quick question guys. I'm using a DWC Setup it may seem obvious but I just don't want to screw it up. If i'm germinating in rockwool and go to transplant it into a net with clay I should wait until the roots reach the bottom of the rockwool and then transplant right? And also should I put the cube as far down as possible? I know the roots are supposed to reach down in a DWC System but do I keep watering from the top until that point? Also... Once the roots reach, I keep the water level at the top? The roots are supposed to be sitting in the water hence hydroponics? Just want to make sure this is right.


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## racer3456 (Jan 24, 2009)

Wait for a few set of roots to come through the bottom of the rockwool. Then put a single layer of hydroton on the bottom of the net pots. Then put your rock wool w/ seedling on top of that. You can feed your roots though the holes in the net pots, but it doesn't really matter. Then fill the rest of the net pot with hydroton. You were asking about your water level as well: Before you do any of the aformentioned procedures I just desribed, you basically want to fill up your resevoir to the correct water level. To do this, put your net pot in your system (bucket, rubbermaid, etc.) and fill it up with water through the netpot until you see the water BARELY touching the bottom. A safe way would be add enough water until you are about 1/2-1/4 cm below the bottom of the net pot. Now, position your air stones directly underneath it and the bubbles will splash up into the net pot and the water will basically get whicked up into the rockwool. You don't want your rockwool to get soaked, and this is the good way to make sure it won't. As the plant grows, the water will evaporate and also get used up by the plant. That's what you want! You can let the water level get about 3-4 inches below the bottom of the net pot (if there are roots long enough dangling in the water) before you fill it back up. But once the plant is bigger, don't fill it up as high as you did in the beginning. Always leave at least 1" of airspace between the top of the water level and the bottom of the net pot. And of course, you may have to pH it every time you add water as well as add half-strength nutrients to keep your nutrient ppm where you want it.


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## NewGrowth (Jan 24, 2009)

onthedl0008 said:


> Cool man U prolly did the whole dwc thing in the past haha. Looking forward to ur grow man sounds like it will be pretty insane im sure. Anyways thanks for ur help. It all actually makes me feel better.


I am growing ten mother plants right now in a DWC and it has been a pain in the ass I should have just put my mothers in soil. I'll probably throw this thing out when I'm done with this round of mothers. 



cheddar97008 said:


> You want to get your water temp down; ideally well below 80..


His water temperature is well below 80 F



Pirate420 said:


> Quick question guys. I'm using a DWC Setup it may seem obvious but I just don't want to screw it up. If i'm germinating in rockwool and go to transplant it into a net with clay I should wait until the roots reach the bottom of the rockwool and then transplant right?


Yeah it is best to hand water at first and wait for some healthy root growth outside the rockwool.



> And also should I put the cube as far down as possible?


The bottom of the rockwool should be at least 1/4" away from the max water level.



> I know the roots are supposed to reach down in a DWC System but do I keep watering from the top until that point?


Just monitor your water level closely at first some hand watering may be needed at first with small plants



> Also... Once the roots reach, I keep the water level at the top? The roots are supposed to be sitting in the water hence hydroponics? Just want to make sure this is right.


Maintain you water level as constant as possible. Only top off with fresh Ph adjusted water between reservoir changes. Never add nutrients to a reservoir between changes.



racer3456 said:


> Wait for a few set of roots to come through the bottom of the rockwool. Then put a single layer of hydroton on the bottom of the net pots. Then put your rock wool w/ seedling on top of that. You can feed your roots though the holes in the net pots, but it doesn't really matter. Then fill the rest of the net pot with hydroton. You were asking about your water level as well: Before you do any of the aformentioned procedures I just desribed, you basically want to fill up your resevoir to the correct water level. To do this, put your net pot in your system (bucket, rubbermaid, etc.) and fill it up with water through the netpot until you see the water BARELY touching the bottom. A safe way would be add enough water until you are about 1/2-1/4 cm below the bottom of the net pot. Now, position your air stones directly underneath it and the bubbles will splash up into the net pot and the water will basically get whicked up into the rockwool. You don't want your rockwool to get soaked, and this is the good way to make sure it won't. As the plant grows, the water will evaporate and also get used up by the plant. That's what you want! You can let the water level get about 3-4 inches below the bottom of the net pot (if there are roots long enough dangling in the water) before you fill it back up. But once the plant is bigger, don't fill it up as high as you did in the beginning. Always leave at least 1" of airspace between the top of the water level and the bottom of the net pot. And of course, you may have to pH it every time you add water as well as add half-strength nutrients to keep your nutrient ppm where you want it.


Good advice except one point.

Never add nutrients in between reservoir changes it can cause lots of problems. Also monitoring the PPM drop or rise in your reservoir will help you determine correct nutrient concentrations.


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## GypsyBush (Jan 27, 2009)

Hey NG... need your input on this one...



TOKEMASTERFLEX said:


> just depends on the strain....gdp takes 3000 no sweat...you will add more of the base nutes to get a higher ppm...all recomendations from any nute supplier is just that a recomendation or a starting point...if your plants are lookin really good up the dosage a little at a time then back off when you see nute burn...drop it just a little from that point and youll be good to go





GypsyBush said:


> Huh... I thought the best way to have them is *just above* a deficiency... as weak a solution as possible, without lacking anything...
> 
> I'll do some more research and check back with you guys...


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## NewGrowth (Jan 27, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Hey NG... need your input on this one...


Where is that from Gypsy? 3000 PPM!!? I have never run that much, even if the plants tolerate that much it seems like a waste of nutrients. Maybe in a Co2 enriched room you could pull it off but why waste the nutrients they are not cheap! Also it should be remembered that nutrients are in the form of salts, at a certain point the concentration gets too high which will prevent osmosis and you will have a crispy dried out plant.

Kinda like trying to quench your thirst by drinking Sea Water.


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## Eddie McPot (Jan 27, 2009)

Damn another hydro thread kewl!


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## GypsyBush (Jan 27, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Where is that from Gypsy? 3000 PPM!!? I have never run that much, even if the plants tolerate that much it seems like a waste of nutrients. Maybe in a Co2 enriched room you could pull it off but why waste the nutrients they are not cheap! Also it should be remembered that nutrients are in the form of salts, at a certain point the concentration gets too high which will prevent osmosis and you will have a crispy dried out plant.
> 
> Kinda like trying to quench your thirst by drinking Sea Water.


Thanks man... I kinda knew what the answer was going to be... click on the red square by the quote and it will take you to the conversation... kinda pointless though...

Oh! and I hear that TRUE areoponics can handle nearly twice the nute load of hydro or soil... that is crazy...

Peace and Love..

Gypsy...


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## NewGrowth (Jan 27, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Thanks man... I kinda knew what the answer was going to be... click on the red square by the quote and it will take you to the conversation... kinda pointless though...
> 
> Oh! and I hear that TRUE areoponics can handle nearly twice the nute load of hydro or soil... that is crazy...
> 
> ...


Other way around. Aero usually needs less nutrients to get the same results. The plants use nutrients so efficiently in aero that they don't need excess. Aeroponics is like hydroponics at high speed, plants grow REALLY fast.

You want to run your PPM as close as possible to only what the plant needs. Plants have no need for excess nutrients, that is why they are excess. A good hydro grower with well dialed in nutrient concentrations will have no need for a flush. Monitor your PPM levels and record them in a journal. Save nutrients, save money, grow bigger bud!

Thought I would post this again for anybody that wants to adjust their nutrient concentrations:

1.Water level drops PPM goes up: Drop your nutrient strength in relationship to the PPM rise. 
2. Water level drops PPM stays the same: You may be able to fine tune you nutrient strength, if growth is vigorous leave it alone.
3. Water level drops PPM drops: Raise you nutrient strength in relationship too PPM drop.


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## iloveit (Jan 27, 2009)

Hi their New Growth first of all I must say Thank you for answering all my previous question in past threads.
I have only 1 question which has bamboozled me.

1) My Blueberry mother plant was giving off signs of magnesium deficiency so I fed it Epson salt (3 tablespoons to 4 litres of water) with BioBizz (grow @ 1/4 dosage) PHed @ 6.5 for soil, what puzzled me was the fact that the Nutrient meter read the PPM at 3500. The tap water was left out for 24hrs & never has the PPM ever come close to 3500 even after adding nutrients at full dosage. 
IS IT BECAUSE OF THE EPSOM SALT? 
By the way the mother plant is looking healthier but can the high rate of PPM have a negative affect on the plant or soil?


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## NewGrowth (Jan 27, 2009)

iloveit said:


> Hi their New Growth first of all I must say Thank you for answering all my previous question in past threads.
> I have only 1 question which has bamboozled me.
> 
> 1) My Blueberry mother plant was giving off signs of magnesium deficiency so I fed it Epson salt (3 tablespoons to 4 litres of water) with BioBizz (grow @ 1/4 dosage) PHed @ 6.5 for soil, what puzzled me was the fact that the Nutrient meter read the PPM at 3500. The tap water was left out for 24hrs & never has the PPM ever come close to 3500 even after adding nutrients at full dosage.
> ...



PPM is measured via electrical conductivity of a solution. Pure water without dissolved minerals and salt is not very conductive. When you add salts the water becomes conductive. Magnesium is a very good conductor so magnesium in the salt form will make a very conductive solution.

I'm unsure of the proper dosing for epsom salts but I have seen a lot of growers add too much and cause major lockout. Be careful a high PPM is not necessarily indicative of what is actually in the solution so you might be fine.

I would however re-check your sources for epsom salt dosing, remember they call these "micro" nutrients for a reason. The plant only needs VERY small amounts of them. More often micronutrient problems are caused by Ph imbalance or excess salt build up in your medium causing lockout.

Good Luck!


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## Eddie McPot (Jan 27, 2009)

New Growth, I have a question about meters. Do you know of a combo meter that is woth buying? Something that I could hang in the cabinet? Or do you recommend the LED stick?


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## NewGrowth (Jan 27, 2009)

Eddie McPot said:


> New Growth, I have a question about meters. Do you know of a combo meter that is woth buying? Something that I could hang in the cabinet? Or do you recommend the LED stick?


Bluelab makes the best products by far. Pricey but worth it. I personally would not get a combo meter the Bluelab trucheon (or LED stick) is by far the best. They do make a Bluelab combo meter that uses the same technology as the trucheon so it never needs to be calibrated but the Ph meter does. I have a cheap Ph pen that is fine by me, I don't need to check Ph that often so even indicator drops work fine if I feel the pen is off.


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## Eddie McPot (Jan 27, 2009)

Thanks man, you are the 2nd to tell me that. Just getting input before I get one. I got a cheapie PH tester that never stays calibrated. Got what I paid for I guess.


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## NewGrowth (Jan 27, 2009)

Eddie McPot said:


> Thanks man, you are the 2nd to tell me that. Just getting input before I get one. I got a cheapie PH tester that never stays calibrated. Got what I paid for I guess.


Yeah and drops are $5 and work fine


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## lemons842659 (Jan 28, 2009)

when gernimating a seed for going into a hydro system, should I put the cracked seed in the wet rockwool and leave it in the dark? should I cover it over with something or just leave the seed visible? is it best hot or cold dark or light? and should I water the rockwool again or just leave it?


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## lemons842659 (Jan 28, 2009)

sorry it is my first grow and I really don't want it to go wrong!!!


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## Eddie McPot (Jan 28, 2009)

Mine germinated by placing in rockwool, putting into a small cup, then covering with plastic wrap. Keep em warm, a few days they sprouted. Transferred rockwool and plant out of cup into netpot when 4 leaves came on. Drop it in the DWC and Bam!

I had 5 outta 6 make it from bag seed!


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## B EAZIE (Jan 28, 2009)

New to bubbleponics-just got a 5 gallon bucket and a 8" net pot that serves as a lid also, i know ur supposed to use smaller pots for cuttings, but is there anyway i can use this setup? Cuz i got a nyc diesel in soil that for some reason is starting to look droopy and i dont want to lose the strain


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## NewGrowth (Jan 28, 2009)

lemons842659 said:


> when gernimating a seed for going into a hydro system, should I put the cracked seed in the wet rockwool and leave it in the dark? should I cover it over with something or just leave the seed visible? is it best hot or cold dark or light? and should I water the rockwool again or just leave it?


Seeds germinate faster when kept warm (around 70-75), it is hard to do that if you just stick them in the rockwool unless you have a heat mat. Rockwool only needs to be moist and is really easy to oversaturate so less is more. 



lemons842659 said:


> sorry it is my first grow and I really don't want it to go wrong!!!


Good luck, and have fun with hydro!



Eddie McPot said:


> Mine germinated by placing in rockwool, putting into a small cup, then covering with plastic wrap. Keep em warm, a few days they sprouted. Transferred rockwool and plant out of cup into netpot when 4 leaves came on. Drop it in the DWC and Bam!
> 
> I had 5 outta 6 make it from bag seed!


This is a good way to do it if you are using rockwool.



B EAZIE said:


> New to bubbleponics-just got a 5 gallon bucket and a 8" net pot that serves as a lid also, i know ur supposed to use smaller pots for cuttings, but is there anyway i can use this setup?


You can use the larger pot for a small cutting but it will probably need to be hand watered until roots establish. 



> Cuz i got a nyc diesel in soil that for some reason is starting to look droopy and i dont want to lose the strain


Drooping usually indicates a root zone problem. Usually under or over watering.


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## onthedl0008 (Jan 28, 2009)

Hey NG check this out.. Noticed a lil discoloration on some of my fan leaves and was told it was prolly a deficiency..Got some cal/mag and added it to the mix over the weekend. Whats it look like to u? If it is a a deficiency do the damaged leaves come back green? It wasnt real bad and corrected it soon as i seen it.
Also, Ho do u use the cal/mag.any input would be great thanks.


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## NewGrowth (Jan 28, 2009)

onthedl0008 said:


> Hey NG check this out.. Noticed a lil discoloration on some of my fan leaves and was told it was prolly a deficiency..Got some cal/mag and added it to the mix over the weekend. Whats it look like to u? If it is a a deficiency do the damaged leaves come back green? It wasnt real bad and corrected it soon as i seen it.
> Also, Ho do u use the cal/mag.any input would be great thanks.


It's really hard to tell from your pics, the HPS kinda washes them out. I tell this to everyone: Micronutrient def is VERY rare and is usually caused by Ph imbalance or nutrient lockout from over fertilizing. Damaged leaves will never heal, new growth is the best indicator of current plant health.

Do you have a grow journal? I can check it out if you would like, might give me a little more back round info on what you are doing.


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## onthedl0008 (Jan 28, 2009)

Yea man right here..I did have a ph problem as well my pen needed calibration for who knows how long.. My nutes have never reached over 1500 in flower.Anyways check it out.
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/144924-stealth-dwc-perpetual-sog.html


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## NewGrowth (Jan 28, 2009)

onthedl0008 said:


> Yea man right here..I did have a ph problem as well my pen needed calibration for who knows how long.. My nutes have never reached over 1500 in flower.Anyways check it out.
> https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/144924-stealth-dwc-perpetual-sog.html


I looked through it I think its just a low light situation. You are running a 150W HPS? Also how far are you into flowering?


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## onthedl0008 (Jan 28, 2009)

I got 2 150's over the tub..I had them really close to the tops for too long and heat stressed alot of my cola fan leaves. I know its not much light.Then on top of that my ph meter was jacked up for awhile.. I moved things around and got the lights about 8 inches from the tops..I started out horribly..The tubs a lil less than 3 sq.ft.. I dunno.
Since i raised the lights and got my ph in check the NG is nice.. No more bumpy crooked leaves.. I flowered them directly from root growth so they were all about 5-7 inches when started..
Ive been thinking its a deficiency cause of the amount of plants i got in the tub.
Who knows tho.


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## NewGrowth (Jan 28, 2009)

onthedl0008 said:


> I got 2 150's over the tub..I had them really close to the tops for too long and heat stressed alot of my cola fan leaves. I know its not much light.Then on top of that my ph meter was jacked up for awhile.. I moved things around and got the lights about 8 inches from the tops..I started out horribly..The tubs a lil less than 3 sq.ft.. I dunno.
> Since i raised the lights and got my ph in check the NG is nice.. No more bumpy crooked leaves.. I flowered them directly from root growth so they were all about 5-7 inches when started..
> Ive been thinking its a deficiency cause of the amount of plants i got in the tub.
> Who knows tho.


Deficiently is obvious just follow my guidelines:
1.Water level drops PPM goes up: Drop your nutrient strength in relationship to the PPM rise. 
2. Water level drops PPM stays the same: You may be able to fine tune you nutrient strength, if growth is vigorous leave it alone.
3. Water level drops PPM drops: Raise you nutrient strength in relationship too PPM drop.

I saw the old deformed leaves and thought Ph but you said you already corrected that. 

Micronutrients could have been locked out of some of the growth you are seeing necrosis. Possibly just the result of your previous Ph issues.

Don't worry too much just monitor it for now. 
__________________


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## onthedl0008 (Jan 28, 2009)

Thanks brotha.. I am watching it closely.
Im currently using Bot. pro grow and flower nutes..cal-mag,fulvic acid and kool bloom..
ive noticed that cal-mag brings the ppm up considerably. and was curious how u would administer the other 2..should i use more backbone nutes and supplement a lil kool bloom.just trying to put my finger on the deficiency. what nutes will better supply the plants with what they need at this stage.


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## NewGrowth (Jan 28, 2009)

onthedl0008 said:


> Thanks brotha.. I am watching it closely.
> Im currently using Bot. pro grow and flower nutes..cal-mag,fulvic acid and kool bloom..
> ive noticed that cal-mag brings the ppm up considerably. and was curious how u would administer the other 2..should i use more backbone nutes and supplement a lil kool bloom.just trying to put my finger on the deficiency. what nutes will better supply the plants with what they need at this stage.


If you are using three part nutes your base should always be the majority of the nutrients you add. Bloom is added more as the more flowering progress'.

I don't like three part nutrients thats why I use Ionic. They also have boost which is good for adding weight later in flowering. Simplify your nutrient package and it will be a little easier to diagnose deficiency and monitor PPM levels.


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## lemons842659 (Jan 28, 2009)

I have another question about hydro. I was going to have 3 plants over the reservoir and have a canstant sprincle of water going into the plant pots and dripping back into the reservoir. would a constant water supply kill them and if so how can I get arount this with out buy much more stuff as I am running low on money.


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## lemons842659 (Jan 28, 2009)

lol at the amount of typos in that question


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## NewGrowth (Jan 28, 2009)

lemons842659 said:


> I have another question about hydro. I was going to have 3 plants over the reservoir and have a canstant sprincle of water going into the plant pots and dripping back into the reservoir. would a constant water supply kill them and if so how can I get arount this with out buy much more stuff as I am running low on money.


Depends on how you set it up. If you use rockwool for example the drip will have to be periodic so you don't overwater. If you are using hydroton you can run a continuous drip but you will need a drip ring to promote even root growth.



lemons842659 said:


> lol at the amount of typos in that question


It's ok . . . I understand


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## Matty10 (Jan 28, 2009)

So it has been a week since I bought clones and put them into my drip system. I was given a lot of wrong info about the feeding schedule, but figured out that I was over watering. I stopped watering and quickly noticed a difference. I now have several roots poking out the bottom of my rock wool and my plants look to be growing. 

Now that they have been growing I am challenged with a new problem. My roots are turning purple. My PPM for the first week was around 300. I just set up me next rez and my PPM is around 540, but have not fed them yet. I think the PPM should be higher. What does every one think?

Thank You

Matt


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## NewGrowth (Jan 28, 2009)

Matty10 said:


> So it has been a week since I bought clones and put them into my drip system. I was given a lot of wrong info about the feeding schedule, but figured out that I was over watering. I stopped watering and quickly noticed a difference. I now have several roots poking out the bottom of my rock wool and my plants look to be growing.
> 
> Now that they have been growing I am challenged with a new problem. My roots are turning purple. My PPM for the first week was around 300. I just set up me next rez and my PPM is around 540, but have not fed them yet. I think the PPM should be higher. What does every one think?
> 
> ...


Have any pictures of the roots? What type of nutrients are you using? Any additives?


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## Matty10 (Jan 28, 2009)

Sorry... I said that my roots were turning purple, but what I meant to say is that my stems are turning purple. I am using Advanced Nutrients Sensi Grow A & B, Dr. Horby's Tarantula (also by Advanced Nutrients), Dark Energy, and Hygrozyme.

Thank You

Matt


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## NewGrowth (Jan 28, 2009)

Matty10 said:


> Sorry... I said that my roots were turning purple, but what I meant to say is that my stems are turning purple. I am using Advanced Nutrients Sensi Grow A & B, Dr. Horby's Tarantula (also by Advanced Nutrients), Dark Energy, and Hygrozyme.
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Matt


Purple stems is not a big deal but it can indicate a Phosphorus def. I would just watch it for now since you said your cuttings just rooted.


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## Matty10 (Jan 28, 2009)

Ok thank you.

Matt


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## Matty10 (Jan 28, 2009)

Another quick question. Awhile back I trimmed off the leaves that were yellow and nothing has grown back. Why is this happening? I looked at the places that I trimmed and they are kind of brown. Before I trimmed the leaves off I cleaned my scissors with some alcohol rubbing pads. Finally, where should I trim the leaves off at? I cut some leaves of right at the base of the leaf. So now I have empty stems.

Thank You

Matt


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## NewGrowth (Jan 29, 2009)

Matty10 said:


> Another quick question. Awhile back I trimmed off the leaves that were yellow and nothing has grown back. Why is this happening? I looked at the places that I trimmed and they are kind of brown. Before I trimmed the leaves off I cleaned my scissors with some alcohol rubbing pads. Finally, where should I trim the leaves off at? I cut some leaves of right at the base of the leaf. So now I have empty stems.
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Matt


You have to trim closer to the axial growth tips to promote growth. Cut that stem off and you should get some new growth.


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## B EAZIE (Jan 29, 2009)

THANKS MAN, BUT AFTER ALL THIS TIME OF WORRY....

Haha!!!! So after work i went to a local hydroponics store and asked if i could use my hydro nutes on my soil grow and explained that i was phasing out soil and thats y i didnt have any soil nutes and he said it would b alright. So i went home, made my mixture, poured it in, left for 5 hours, and when i came back it was like i had 2 completely different plants!!! Theyre all perky and happy now!! Thats all i needed the whole time? Man i feel like a jackass, but im glad i didnt kill my babies while i was trying to figure it out. Now that theyre healthy, im taking a cutting from each, and starting my flowering stage

woohoo!!!!


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## B EAZIE (Jan 29, 2009)

Also i noticed i have a few spider mites that i thought i had gotten rid of. Anyone know a cheap and easy way to get rid of em? I was told to just kinda rub lightly on the leaves where they are to squish em, and make sure u spray the underside of the leaves cuz they dont like wet areas, but apparently that didnt get all of them


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## Eddie McPot (Jan 29, 2009)

Matty10 said:


> Sorry... I said that my roots were turning purple, but what I meant to say is that my stems are turning purple. I am using Advanced Nutrients Sensi Grow A & B, Dr. Horby's Tarantula (also by Advanced Nutrients), Dark Energy, and Hygrozyme.
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Matt


I'm using AN also, I love them!


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## NewGrowth (Jan 29, 2009)

B EAZIE said:


> THANKS MAN, BUT AFTER ALL THIS TIME OF WORRY....
> 
> Haha!!!! So after work i went to a local hydroponics store and asked if i could use my hydro nutes on my soil grow and explained that i was phasing out soil and thats y i didnt have any soil nutes and he said it would b alright. So i went home, made my mixture, poured it in, left for 5 hours, and when i came back it was like i had 2 completely different plants!!! Theyre all perky and happy now!! Thats all i needed the whole time? Man i feel like a jackass, but im glad i didnt kill my babies while i was trying to figure it out. Now that theyre healthy, im taking a cutting from each, and starting my flowering stage
> 
> woohoo!!!!


Glad to hear



B EAZIE said:


> Also i noticed i have a few spider mites that i thought i had gotten rid of. Anyone know a cheap and easy way to get rid of em? I was told to just kinda rub lightly on the leaves where they are to squish em, and make sure u spray the underside of the leaves cuz they dont like wet areas, but apparently that didnt get all of them


Tobacco tea is super cheap to make, just boil a bunch of cig butts, strain the water through a coffee filter, let it cool and spray it on your plants a couple times a day. Adding a bit of dish soap to the mix will help it coat the leaves and the mites.

If you want to buy something, neem oil works great for spider mites too.Good luck!


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## B EAZIE (Jan 29, 2009)

newgrowth said:


> glad to hear
> 
> 
> 
> ...


much appreciated

ill try it out tonight, or whenever i collect some butts (i stick to the wacky tobaccy, hehe)


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## chicagokushman23 (Jan 29, 2009)

hey ng they say not many nutes is needed for auto strains.i have a middle layer of mg organic time released nutes so is that cool? they are thriving so i plan to use no nutes. is it ok to start using lasses every other feeding now? it made 3 weeks the 26th so they have showed and i want to jus use lasses? is that cool?


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## NewGrowth (Jan 29, 2009)

chicagokushman23 said:


> hey ng they say not many nutes is needed for auto strains.i have a middle layer of mg organic time released nutes so is that cool? they are thriving so i plan to use no nutes. is it ok to start using lasses every other feeding now? it made 3 weeks the 26th so they have showed and i want to jus use lasses? is that cool?


Yeah they should be fine. Max PPM I've had to run with auto flowers in hydro was 700 so the def don't need much in the way of nutes to grow strong. I'm sure the molasses would not hurt.


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## chicagokushman23 (Jan 30, 2009)

thx bro. is 2400 to 2600 watss of light cool for 50 auto flowers. i was thinkin of bringing the number of plants down so i can get a better bud. more dense instead of airy


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## NewGrowth (Jan 30, 2009)

chicagokushman23 said:


> thx bro. is 2400 to 2600 watss of light cool for 50 auto flowers. i was thinkin of bringing the number of plants down so i can get a better bud. more dense instead of airy


I hope so  Depends on you space. More light equals denser buds though.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 2, 2009)

I had some stem rot problems recently due to over wet rapid root plugs in my hydro system. I thought I should post the remedy that I used. It was given to me by a fellow RIU member Leilani Garden.

Gentian Violet is available over the counter at the pharmacy. It cost me $2.05, cheap too. I painted the stem lesions with the Gentian Violet to seal them and prevent further rot. I then treated them at the root zone with Physan 20 and all purpose fungicide, virucide, and bactericide. Be careful Physan 20 creates a lot of foam so if you add it to you reservoir its a good idea to turn off the air pump. 

The normal survival rate from stem rot is 5-15%. So far all the treated plants with the overwatering problem corrected have survived.


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## billgame (Feb 2, 2009)

this is my first hydro grow in a aeroflo 36.i just transplanted 18 of the 2 week old clones from the ez clone into the aeroflo and i filled my my resovoir with fox farms big bloom and grow big hydro.My problem is i went off the fox farm feeding schedule that says to have my ppm from 1160 to 1280.So i recently done more research and found that it needs to be closer to 500 ppm.what should i do?


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## NewGrowth (Feb 2, 2009)

billgame said:


> this is my first hydro grow in a aeroflo 36.i just transplanted 18 of the 2 week old clones from the ez clone into the aeroflo and i filled my my resovoir with fox farms big bloom and grow big hydro.My problem is i went off the fox farm feeding schedule that says to have my ppm from 1160 to 1280.So i recently done more research and found that it needs to be closer to 500 ppm.what should i do?


Not a big deal just change out your reservoir or remove some of the solution you already mixed up and dilute it then re-adjust your Ph.


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## B EAZIE (Feb 4, 2009)

Ok so anyone know how long its supposed to take for a plant to start recovering from being topped?

I know ur not supposed to do it right before flowering, but i didnt find that out till too late

its been about 2 weeks and there are no signs of re growth


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## NewGrowth (Feb 4, 2009)

B EAZIE said:


> Ok so anyone know how long its supposed to take for a plant to start recovering from being topped?
> 
> I know ur not supposed to do it right before flowering, but i didnt find that out till too late
> 
> its been about 2 weeks and there are no signs of re growth


About two weeks unless you topped an immature plant. Don't top plants under 30 days of age.


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## erickw1822 (Feb 4, 2009)

PPPLLLLEEEEAAAASSSEEE HELLLLPPP


Hey Everybody... This is my 2nd grow.. but my first grow w/ multiple plants..


My leaves are all drooping down and curling under... I have pics posted.. Im not sure what to do.. I can't find any other people that are having this problem... 

I have 6 plants.. various strands..
They are set in Rockwool w/ Clay Pellets
And I am using a 10 Gallon Ebb and flow system..

250w HPS Light and Ballast
2 Florescent Grow Lights 
SET @ 24/7....

Watering Schedule is On for 30 minutes
every two hours.

I just bought a bubble stone for the resivoir today.

The PH is between 5 & 6. 
Im Using Fox Farm Nutes.. 420 PPM

The Temp Stays between 60-80 deg.
The Humidity stays between 40-70%

The light is exactly 30 inches about the plants, and the plants are 8-10 inches tall...

If you can help me, or give me any guidance let me know!!! THANK YOU!


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## NewGrowth (Feb 4, 2009)

You are just overwatering, try flooding half as often.


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## erickw1822 (Feb 4, 2009)

Is there anything else that it could be... there are little brown spots on a few of the leaves...


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## NewGrowth (Feb 4, 2009)

erickw1822 said:


> Is there anything else that it could be... there are little brown spots on a few of the leaves...


Nope that is classic overwatering. Droopy leaves, yellowing followed by spotting necrosis moving up the plant. Exactly what you describe and what your pictures show. Cut back on your watering you should see improvement in a couple days.


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## erickw1822 (Feb 5, 2009)

Thanks alot newgrowth... they look better already... how tall should they be before you flower them? any certain specs... ?


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## NewGrowth (Feb 5, 2009)

erickw1822 said:


> Thanks alot newgrowth... they look better already... how tall should they be before you flower them? any certain specs... ?


Good to hear. It is best to flower your plants once they have reach maturity. A mature plant is indicated by alternating nodes and or pre-flowers (most strains mature in about 30 days). You can flower earlier if you have height restrictions however expect a reduction in yield and increased time to induce flowering.


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## GypsyBush (Feb 7, 2009)

Hey NG...

Hope all is groovy in your patch....

Here is a roaming update...

I had not posted pics for a while.. so .. sorry about the hijack but here is progress...lol...



GypsyBush said:


> This is an update by GypsyBush
> 
> Maintaining with Gypsy tradition, I have decided not to have a fixed journal...
> 
> ...


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## NewGrowth (Feb 7, 2009)

Thanks Gypsy looks like you are having fun. I love that one tiny plant with the little nug.


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## GypsyBush (Feb 14, 2009)

Things are pretty quiet around here eh?!?!

Let's try an change that....

Go get a bowl.. I'll fetch another ridiculous upgrade..

How does that sound..?


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## GypsyBush (Feb 14, 2009)

Here you go NG...

I would appreciate any criticism...

Cheers...



GypsyBush said:


> Well... here goes another Photo Update....
> 
> We'll start out with the TOOLS of the TRADE....  this is how I managed to not make eleventeen trips up and down the stairs, with my leg in a cast...
> 
> ...


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## Matty10 (Feb 15, 2009)

Ok... so I bought clones a roughly 4 weeks ago. I am growing in a hydro drip fees system and I am going through so much distilled water. It seems everyday that I must add more distilled water to dilute my ppm. According to my ppm chart my ppm for the start of the 4th week should be around 1200, but after I did that the following day it was around 1350. So I lowered my ppm to 1150, sure enough the following day my ppm was at 1290. Why am I having so much trouble? Is there a way to figure out how much I need to lower my ppm? or do I gradually continue lowering it until it stops changing?

Thank You

Matt


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## curious.george (Feb 15, 2009)

New Growth, I was hoping you had a comment on the question I posted in marijuana plant problems.

Here is a copy
I have these brown spots on my lower leaves. 

The plants look fine other than that but I am worried they will spread to the forming buds. 

Abut the spots:
They appear to be a substance on the back of the leaves, or at least they start out that way. I used a 30x microscope to look at them, in one case I was able to move one so that it was mostly dangling off the leaves, it looked like a tiny piece of granite crystal. They seem to be whitish with a black ring on the outside of them when I look through a microscope. The leaves eventually turn totally brown and crispy starting at the tips. The spots seem to be near the veins of the leaves. None of the new growth has spots and the buds look fine so far.
Here is a leaf that just started to have them, no spots on the top of the leaf only a few on the bottom, 
and the spots through a microscope


and here is where I picked the leaf


Here is some leaves that look bad

and where I picked them



The whole garden photo


About the garden:
coco coir ebb-flow hydro using canna coco nutes at 1000ppm. I use H202 to control slime mold that gets in my reservoir, I used to have PH problems long ago due to pathogens, h2o2 solded that. Nothing else in my res. I spray safer sulfur once in a while to try an prevent bud mold. Also some x-clude pyrenthrum spray to control for fungus gnats, also on the bottom half of the plant. I get grey mold on plant debris in the grow room, so those spores are there. PH is checked often. The light is 2 150w hps and 4 55w t5 tubes. I live where its cold and humid outside.

hopefully with these better photos and better description someone has an idea. It seems it can not be a nutrient deficenticy because the things come off and I use good nutes. Also I see no movment so I dont think its bugs. I am thinking its either a mold or from my sulfur spray. If its mold I need more sulfur, if its sulfur I need less sulfur.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 15, 2009)

Matty10 said:


> Ok... so I bought clones a roughly 4 weeks ago. I am growing in a hydro drip fees system and I am going through so much distilled water. It seems everyday that I must add more distilled water to dilute my ppm. According to my ppm chart my ppm for the start of the 4th week should be around 1200, but after I did that the following day it was around 1350. So I lowered my ppm to 1150, sure enough the following day my ppm was at 1290. Why am I having so much trouble? Is there a way to figure out how much I need to lower my ppm? or do I gradually continue lowering it until it stops changing?
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Matt


Here is the guidelines to find proper PPM:

1.Water level drops PPM goes up: Drop your nutrient strength in relationship to the PPM rise. 
2. Water level drops PPM stays the same: You may be able to fine tune you nutrient strength, if growth is vigorous leave it alone.
3. Water level drops PPM drops: Raise you nutrient strength in relationship too PPM drop.

Lets do some quick math with your readings start 1200 end 1350. 1350-1200= 150 total change ( a minor rise but still significant in only 24 hours)

Ok 1150 to 1290= 140 total change. An change of 50 ppm is giving you a 10 ppm flux in PPM drift. So 14 times 50 is 700. Does not necessarily tell you exactly how much to drop your PPM but give you a ballpark, I would drop by half that about 350 PPM. See how your plants respond and measure the drift like you have been. That would be 800 ppm you might have to go up a bit from there but it gives you a solid starting point.



curious.george said:


> New Growth, I was hoping you had a comment on the question I posted in marijuana plant problems.
> 
> Here is a copy
> I have these brown spots on my lower leaves.
> ...


Hey george great post.

I have never used a sulfur burner but according to Al B too much can burn the plants. How often do you run your burner? Al was running his burner for fifteen minutes once every eight hours to prevent mold.

The symptoms of your necrosis indicate a root zone problem, spotting necrosis followed by yellowing leaves moving up the plant. I can't think of why however you set up seems fine. Sometimes an enzyme treatment can help in organic media. H202 is not very compatible with organic media. The enzyme will eat away any dead organic mater so that food sources for damaging bacteria are eliminated.

The other possibility is low-light necrosis, the lights you are using have poor canopy penetration so sometimes the lower leaves will spot yellow any die.

Good luck man


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## curious.george (Feb 15, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> I have never used a sulfur burner but according to Al B too much can burn the plants. How often do you run your burner?


it is actually a bottle of safer brand sulfur spray. What do you use to prevent bud rot? I started using it after reading the al. b faqt and not having $120 for the burner.

root zone, good to know.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 15, 2009)

curious.george said:


> it is actually a bottle of safer brand sulfur spray. What do you use to prevent bud rot? I started using it after reading the al. b faqt and not having $120 for the burner.
> 
> root zone, good to know.


I live in a very dry climate. My veg space has a humidifier but the natural climate in my area runs at about 30% humidity at most so mold is not much of a problem. Maybe stop spraying the sulfur and see if the problem improves. Keep us updated.


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## Matty10 (Feb 16, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Here is the guidelines to find proper PPM:
> 
> 1.Water level drops PPM goes up: Drop your nutrient strength in relationship to the PPM rise.
> 2. Water level drops PPM stays the same: You may be able to fine tune you nutrient strength, if growth is vigorous leave it alone.
> ...


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## erickw1822 (Feb 16, 2009)

Would someone take a look at these and give me some advice???

I would like to start flowering soon but i would like to fix the current problem... 

THANKS!!!

EAZY FO SHEEZY!!


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## hatchbacknation (Feb 16, 2009)

how long should i flush my system before harvest


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## NewGrowth (Feb 16, 2009)

Matty10 said:


> NewGrowth said:
> 
> 
> > Here is the guidelines to find proper PPM:
> ...


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## Matty10 (Feb 17, 2009)

Thanks New Growth, nice formula. I understand now.

Thank You,

Matt


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## NewGrowth (Feb 17, 2009)

Matty10 said:


> Thanks New Growth, nice formula. I understand now.
> 
> Thank You,
> 
> Matt


NG "fuzzy" math 






Let me know how it works out.


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## Matty10 (Feb 18, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> NG "fuzzy" math
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here is a question, or two, for you. What does it mean when you have small leaves? Again, my plants are 4 1/2 weeks old and are between 11'' to 1'3". I have 2 OG, 1 Jack the Ripper, and 1 white Widow. My Jack the Ripper is the second tallest and has small leaves. I remember reading somewhere that it is a sign on something negative, but cannot find where I read 
this.

Also, I am growing in 6" Rock Wool cubes and it seems that my roots are not growing down into my hydroton. Any ideas? I mean roots are poking out of the bottom of the Rock Wool, but they stop there. My roots do not continue growing. Is there something wrong?

Thank You,

Matt


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## Matty10 (Feb 18, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> NG "fuzzy" math
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok so the other day we discussed PPM. I followed your directions and lowered the PPM down to 820. Today I checked the PPM and it has risen up to 960. So that is a difference of 140.
140/10 = 14
14*50 = 700 (these just so happen to be the same numbers we had earlier)
700/2 = 350

So now according to the math I should subtract 350 from my 820 PPM? If this is true then my PPM will be at 470. Not to mention that my tap water is around 310 PPM. Also according to my PPM chart for this past week I should be around 1200 PPM. Doesn't 470 seem extremely low for plants that started out as clones and have been growing for about 5 weeks now? Do you think may be my roots have locked out my nuets and that is why the PPM increases everyday? I NEED HELP, this is getting frustrating.

Thank You,

Matt


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## karlt2005 (Feb 18, 2009)

this thread is awsome keep up the good work NEWGROWTH, im just starting my new hydro garden now as my first grow was in soil and i didnt care for soil much ill be checking here daily. hopefully ill have some pics for you guys soon! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK DUDE!!!!!


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## NewGrowth (Feb 18, 2009)

Matty10 said:


> Ok so the other day we discussed PPM. I followed your directions and lowered the PPM down to 820. Today I checked the PPM and it has risen up to 960. So that is a difference of 140.
> 140/10 = 14
> 14*50 = 700 (these just so happen to be the same numbers we had earlier)
> 700/2 = 350
> ...


Well some drift is to be expected. I agree 470 ppm would be very low for plants five weeks old. How much water are they using? The drift is consistent which is a good sign. How do the plants look? Is the growth healthy? I would run 820 and watch the rise over a few days, it might stabilize at some point. Do you have any Ph flux? 



karlt2005 said:


> this thread is awsome keep up the good work NEWGROWTH, im just starting my new hydro garden now as my first grow was in soil and i didnt care for soil much ill be checking here daily. hopefully ill have some pics for you guys soon! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK DUDE!!!!!


Cool man keep us updated.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 18, 2009)

Matty10 said:


> Here is a question, or two, for you. What does it mean when you have small leaves? Again, my plants are 4 1/2 weeks old and are between 11'' to 1'3". I have 2 OG, 1 Jack the Ripper, and 1 white Widow. My Jack the Ripper is the second tallest and has small leaves. I remember reading somewhere that it is a sign on something negative, but cannot find where I read
> this.
> 
> Also, I am growing in 6" Rock Wool cubes and it seems that my roots are not growing down into my hydroton. Any ideas? I mean roots are poking out of the bottom of the Rock Wool, but they stop there. My roots do not continue growing. Is there something wrong?
> ...


Just saw this one too. If your rock wool is over saturated it could be causing this. Any light getting to the rootzone can also stunt root growth. Are you pre-soaking your rockwool? Not sure what you mean by small leaves but deformed leaves indicate Ph imbalance. Do you have any pictures matty?


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## karlt2005 (Feb 19, 2009)

quick question i have a 400w mh for my veg, as soon as i see a sprut would you recommend putting the seedling under the mh or cfl? if cfl what wattage? im really unclear on this way to start my babies!


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## smartbadguy (Feb 19, 2009)

how do you determine the amount of water you need of the x ammout of plant? like say i wanna put 10 site how much liter i need for the res


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## NewGrowth (Feb 19, 2009)

karlt2005 said:


> quick question i have a 400w mh for my veg, as soon as i see a sprut would you recommend putting the seedling under the mh or cfl? if cfl what wattage? im really unclear on this way to start my babies!



You can put them under the 400w just make sure it is far away so you don't burn your young seedlings. 



smartbadguy said:


> how do you determine the amount of water you need of the x ammout of plant? like say i wanna put 10 site how much liter i need for the res


About one liter per plant is a good rule, more for larger plants.


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## karlt2005 (Feb 19, 2009)

i have the mh about 2 ft at the min any good or closer?
i also need to know what ppm to start them at? i was going to start at 300ppm for the first 2 weeks and then bump them up! what do you recomend?


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## NewGrowth (Feb 19, 2009)

karlt2005 said:


> i have the mh about 2 ft at the min any good or closer?
> i also need to know what ppm to start them at? i was going to start at 300ppm for the first 2 weeks and then bump them up! what do you recomend?


When they get their second set of true leaves you should be able to start them off at 350-500 ppm. Two feet should be fine, a little higher if you are in a tight space.


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## karlt2005 (Feb 20, 2009)

thanks newgroth your a really big help!!! just one last question lol sorry to bother you my ph mas was at 5.6 some time yesterday afternoon i have just checked it at 8am the next day and its now 6.0 is this bad? should i put it back down to 5.6? i red some where to leave it for 3 days then alter it back to what it was, but there again i know big ph jumps can be bad what do you think?


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## Matty10 (Feb 20, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Well some drift is to be expected. I agree 470 ppm would be very low for plants five weeks old. How much water are they using? The drift is consistent which is a good sign. How do the plants look? Is the growth healthy? I would run 820 and watch the rise over a few days, it might stabilize at some point. Do you have any Ph flux?
> 
> 
> 
> Cool man keep us updated.


Again I appreciate this!!!

The plants look great. I am just a worried papa. This being my first grow ever, I have been asking every possible question. I guess the only thing I can say is that I kind of expected them to be taller by now, but oh well right. (Unless I am doing something wrong in that regards.) Although, i did find 2 leaves that look bad on 1 of my OG plants. I did my best to take some photos, but my camera is not that good. 

About the stabilization, that is a great idea, I did not know I can do that. Lets say that it eventually stabilizes around 1400, does that mean I should feed them at that ppm?

My ph flux is very minimal.

Finally, I did pre-soak my rock wool before placing the clones into them. What I think my problem was that maybe light was getting to the root zone. I have one of those grow tubs and I filled it with hydroton then placed the rockwool on the tops of the rocks. I did this so i could lift them to examine whether or not the cubes were ready for watering again. I just recently dug out all the rocks and and placed the cubes near the bottom of the tub and spread the rocks around them.

Pics:
#1 all 4 of my children
#2 my girls
#3 White Widow
#4 OG (my smallest)
#5 OG (my largest)
#6 Jack the Ripper
#7 Leaf problem on largest OG
#8 Leaf problem on largest OG

Thank You,

Matty


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## karlt2005 (Feb 20, 2009)

im no expert dude but is that a zinc def? is your ph high?


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## locknarstone (Feb 20, 2009)

Hello all. Ok so i have a plant growing in my closet in a little nook i have. i have a totaly home made hydro set up never done it befor. I saw my friends setup and said to myself (Hey i can do that for half the price with household items) so i tryed it and this is what i have gotten sofar. im useing 2 35 gal cat litter pails stacked in eachother the one on the inside of the first pail has drip holes for all water to leach back into the bottom pail and then i have a return line to the *reservoir* . (pick to follow) i also have a towl wrapped around the buckets to keep the light out. i have nutes in my *reservoir* 1/2 tsp per gallon right now of flora nova in a 4 gallon bucket. i have a 250w growlight on (16 on & 8 off) to flower. im not sure hot to set my drip timmer,(need help). my roots are alittle dark and need help with that too.. any advice i can get would be great


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## doniawon (Feb 20, 2009)

12/12 to flower 12 on 12 off.. your plants pretty big you should use the recomended dose of the nova GROW.. although i think your using BLOOM. cut your light cycle up the nutes and get some more LIGHT.. red spectrum if possible.. 
you could oh just bought a 5 and 3 gallon bucket and made this alot easier.. the gaps on the side of that bucket are pobably light poisoning and drying out your dangling roots.. they do look a little brown.. nova makes em' a little darker but???????


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## locknarstone (Feb 20, 2009)

karlt2005 said:


> im no expert dude but is that a (zinc def?) is your ph high?


 
Dont understand (Zinc Def)??? can you be more specific?? ph is about 5-6


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## doniawon (Feb 20, 2009)

actually the 250 is fine just lower it and use a fan... hope this helps 

looks good for a first time.. keep them wheels turnin'


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## locknarstone (Feb 20, 2009)

I do have white cardboard slats that i put over the the tope of the plant to keep the light from going in they just arnt in the pics


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## locknarstone (Feb 20, 2009)

i also have a fan set up to that you also dont see in the pick.. its at a constant 79-80 degrees in my little nook.. thanks for input any more would be great


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## NewGrowth (Feb 20, 2009)

karlt2005 said:


> thanks newgroth your a really big help!!! just one last question lol sorry to bother you my ph mas was at 5.6 some time yesterday afternoon i have just checked it at 8am the next day and its now 6.0 is this bad? should i put it back down to 5.6? i red some where to leave it for 3 days then alter it back to what it was, but there again i know big ph jumps can be bad what do you think?



Some Ph drift is fine, let it all drift for a few days as long as it is not major or extreme then let it go. 




Matty10 said:


> Again I appreciate this!!!
> 
> The plants look great. I am just a worried papa. This being my first grow ever, I have been asking every possible question. I guess the only thing I can say is that I kind of expected them to be taller by now, but oh well right. (Unless I am doing something wrong in that regards.) Although, i did find 2 leaves that look bad on 1 of my OG plants. I did my best to take some photos, but my camera is not that good.
> 
> ...


Hey Matty your plants look pretty good, very dense look like they have been topped.

How often are your drip lines running? When I grow in the big rockwool cubes I like to flush them with fresh water every couple of weeks because they can collect nutrient salts after a while which can also cause Ph drift and PPM flux. I would also cover the root zone with panda plastic to stop algae growth, and prevent light in the root zone. This will also require you to water less often because water will not evaporate so readily.



karlt2005 said:


> im no expert dude but is that a zinc def? is your ph high?


Possible but unlikely, micronutrient problems are rare and usually caused by Ph problems.



locknarstone said:


> Hello all. Ok so i have a plant growing in my closet in a little nook i have. i have a totaly home made hydro set up never done it befor. I saw my friends setup and said to myself (Hey i can do that for half the price with household items) so i tryed it and this is what i have gotten sofar. im useing 2 35 gal cat litter pails stacked in eachother the one on the inside of the first pail has drip holes for all water to leach back into the bottom pail and then i have a return line to the *reservoir* . (pick to follow) i also have a towl wrapped around the buckets to keep the light out. i have nutes in my *reservoir* 1/2 tsp per gallon right now of flora nova in a 4 gallon bucket. i have a 250w growlight on (16 on & 8 off) to flower. im not sure hot to set my drip timmer,(need help). my roots are alittle dark and need help with that too.. any advice i can get would be great


I would add some H202 to your rez to help with the brown roots. 35% @ 1.7ml/L. I would try a drip cycle of 15 on 15 off since it seems like you system drains well. What is it set at now? Plant looks healthy.

What strain are you growing? Most commercial strains will flower with a 16 hour on light cycle but some require a longer dark cycle, indicas in particular.



locknarstone said:


> Dont understand (Zinc Def)??? can you be more specific?? ph is about 5-6


He was talking about Matty.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 20, 2009)

doniawon said:


> 12/12 to flower 12 on 12 off.. your plants pretty big you should use the recomended dose of the nova GROW.. although i think your using BLOOM. cut your light cycle up the nutes and get some more LIGHT.. red spectrum if possible..
> you could oh just bought a 5 and 3 gallon bucket and made this alot easier.. the gaps on the side of that bucket are pobably light poisoning and drying out your dangling roots.. they do look a little brown.. nova makes em' a little darker but???????


I just noticed that too.


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## doniawon (Feb 20, 2009)

newgrowth great answers and nice great thread ill give you dubs on the props.. ++rep

my question.. Which are better? short clones or longer clones .. i know longer clones are are better for the height and time factor.. but it seems that shorter clones get tighter spaceing between nodes???what length do you use and prefer.. im going for sog 1 oz plants and in this setup which has 2 gals. but are being switched to 1's for SOG..


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## NewGrowth (Feb 20, 2009)

doniawon said:


> newgrowth great answers and nice great thread ill give you dubs on the props.. ++rep
> 
> my question.. Which are better? short clones or longer clones .. i know longer clones are are better for the height and time factor.. but it seems that shorter clones get tighter spaceing between nodes???what length do you use and prefer.. im going for sog 1 oz plants and in this setup which has 2 gals. but are being switched to 1's for SOG..


Depends on what you are doing. I like larger clones because as soon as they root I put them in flower. Also in a SOG the taller clones allow for some air-flow under the canopy. My clones are about 5-6"


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## doniawon (Feb 20, 2009)

what is the average yeild of the bi-weekly or weekly etc.. lot you pull per plant??? 
i have always grown for big trees and i am realizing that i coulb possibly get another # or 2 from a SOG.. so im wanting to make the switch.. ???


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## locknarstone (Feb 20, 2009)

the strain im growing is a clone of ether Vortex Or Space Queen gottem mixed up when my buddy gave it to me so its eatherone lol (I DONT KNOW)!!!!!!!!!!!


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## NewGrowth (Feb 20, 2009)

doniawon said:


> what is the average yeild of the bi-weekly or weekly etc.. lot you pull per plant???
> i have always grown for big trees and i am realizing that i coulb possibly get another # or 2 from a SOG.. so im wanting to make the switch.. ???


We will see right now I am testing out a new vertical aeroponic set up. I have some stuff on order as well I just bought a camera and I'm going to build a scaled down system for a closet. The closet set up will not be vertical but it will be similar, I have set up a couple for med patients and gotten great results.

With flood tables under 1000w I have been able to pull 1-2oz per plant. Aeroponic yield has been even better. Twelve plants SOG under a 1000w in aero got one patient over a pound dry weight. 

Check back here in a week or so, I'll post a link to the construction journal once I get started.


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## doniawon (Feb 20, 2009)

another question ?? can you use 1" rockwool cubes in an ezcloner?? i have one and have never used it, i like the old school method i guess.. but for a SOG i was thinkin i could clone and veg in the ez cloner up to 6-8" as per ur suggestion.. and go to the 1 gallons to the bloom room in the 1 gallon pots.. 
im just so use to rockwool or oasis for cloning .. i think im scared of this ezcloner.. every use one any tips>???? 

vertical aeroponics sound intrestin


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## NewGrowth (Feb 20, 2009)

doniawon said:


> another question ?? can you use 1" rockwool cubes in an ezcloner?? i have one and have never used it, i like the old school method i guess.. but for a SOG i was thinkin i could clone and veg in the ez cloner up to 6-8" as per ur suggestion.. and go to the 1 gallons to the bloom room in the 1 gallon pots..
> im just so use to rockwool or oasis for cloning .. i think im scared of this ezcloner.. every use one any tips>????
> 
> vertical aeroponics sound intrestin


I don't know you might be better off with rock wool plugs my main concern would be over saturating the rock wool and rotting stems.


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## doniawon (Feb 20, 2009)

hmmm. stick with what works huh.. i like your style.. 

anyone want a 30 site ezcloner.. yeah it alot less work when you know all thats involved .. cloneing is sort of a delicate thing, to me i think ill stick to what im good at. 


what do you think i would pull off of 4 plants a week with 32 6-8" clones "as per your request" in two 4x4 flood tables and 3000 watts hps.. that would be 32 total at 4 plants in and out per week.. you know what i mean i hope...


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## Matty10 (Feb 20, 2009)

Thanks NewGrowth...

I feed my plant 3 times in a 24 hrs. for 15 min each time. I have rinsed my rock wool once already. I used Brita Filtered water to rinse it out with, is that ok? 

what did you think of that leaf problem i have? I added a picture on page 34.

Thanks

Matty


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## NewGrowth (Feb 20, 2009)

doniawon said:


> hmmm. stick with what works huh.. i like your style..
> 
> anyone want a 30 site ezcloner.. yeah it alot less work when you know all thats involved .. cloneing is sort of a delicate thing, to me i think ill stick to what im good at.
> 
> ...


I guess we will see . . . seems like you could get away with less light or more plants. 



Matty10 said:


> Thanks NewGrowth...
> 
> I feed my plant 3 times in a 24 hrs. for 15 min each time. I have rinsed my rock wool once already. I used Brita Filtered water to rinse it out with, is that ok?
> 
> ...



I saw that, just that one leaf? I would just monitor it for now, don't water during lights off either.


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## doniawon (Feb 20, 2009)

this is a lil off topic .. can you make bubble hash with out the bags??


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## NewGrowth (Feb 20, 2009)

doniawon said:


> this is a lil off topic .. can you make bubble hash with out the bags??


Yeah check out the gumby method you should find it all over with a quick google search


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## doniawon (Feb 20, 2009)

thank you +rep.. 
what r your top 5 strains for hydro.. ??


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## NewGrowth (Feb 20, 2009)

doniawon said:


> thank you +rep..
> what r your top 5 strains for hydro.. ??


Hmmm this is just personal preference:

1. White Widow
2. Northern Lights
3. Sour Diesel
4. Ak-47
5. Big Bud

Right now I have
White Widow and Hijack


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## doniawon (Feb 20, 2009)

that hijack looks fuckn' awesome.. thanks new..


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## karlt2005 (Feb 22, 2009)

my ph is stable now dude thankyou im putting it back down today, quick question when can i start lowering my 400w mh i dont want my seedlings streching they have there first set of leafs just waitng for the set of second leafs so i can start on the nuitreints cheers and keep up the good work!!!!!!


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## doniawon (Feb 22, 2009)

gumby treated me good New... thanks for the ref.. also i spread my lights from 3 light s on two tables, to one per 4x4 table.. thanks for your imput +reps..


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## NewGrowth (Feb 22, 2009)

karlt2005 said:


> my ph is stable now dude thankyou im putting it back down today, quick question when can i start lowering my 400w mh i dont want my seedlings streching they have there first set of leafs just waitng for the set of second leafs so i can start on the nuitreints cheers and keep up the good work!!!!!!


You should be able to slowly start lowering it. Lower it slowly and see how they respond, it really sucks to burn little plants when you get the light too close. How much are they stretching?



doniawon said:


> gumby treated me good New... thanks for the ref.. also i spread my lights from 3 light s on two tables, to one per 4x4 table.. thanks for your imput +reps..


Awesome gumby hash is cool real simple. Looks good man!


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## karlt2005 (Feb 23, 2009)

there about 2inc tall i dont know if this is ok???? like i said before this is only my second grow so im a newbie,but thanks to this thread im learning loads!!!!! what is the highest that marijuana can grow at my veg is 80c and im struggeling to get it any lower,unless i turn the light off, will this affect my final yeild?


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## GypsyBush (Feb 23, 2009)

smartbadguy said:


> how do you determine the amount of water you need of the x ammout of plant? like say i wanna put 10 site how much liter i need for the res





NewGrowth said:


> About one liter per plant is a good rule, more for larger plants.


Hey NG.. did you mean to say 1 gallon?

I am not here to question you, on the contrary.. but I have always heard 1 gallon per plant...

Did you really mean 1 liter?

Thanks...!


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## NewGrowth (Feb 23, 2009)

karlt2005 said:


> there about 2inc tall i dont know if this is ok???


Sounds a little stretched.



> like i said before this is only my second grow so im a newbie,but thanks to this thread im learning loads!!!!! what is the highest that marijuana can grow at my veg is 80c and im struggeling to get it any lower,unless i turn the light off, will this affect my final yeild?


You mean 80F? That is not too bad as long as it does not go much lower. Heat problems usually result in longer internode space and fluffy buds rather than dense nugs.





GypsyBush said:


> Hey NG.. did you mean to say 1 gallon?
> 
> I am not here to question you, on the contrary.. but I have always heard 1 gallon per plant...
> 
> ...



One liter is a minimum for smaller plants (around 2ft) usually for a SOG. Larger plants require more. I have gotten away with the one liter minimum many times. I like to have larger reservoirs if possible. Small reservoirs are prone to fast Ph, PPM, and temp flux.

Question away Gypsy! I am always up to learn, thanks for stopping by.


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## mightyboogie (Feb 24, 2009)

hallo
my clones are 3 weeks old and they look like this:

























the water ph is 5.9-6.0.i use general hydroponics fertilizers.what do you think might be the problem?


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## doniawon (Feb 24, 2009)

they look rooted already... have you removed the dome or cracked it to adjust them to a lower humidity level... after a week or so the humidity needs to come down with each passing day just a little bit... 90% for the first week then 80.. 70 .. on down to 50..
also how much nutes .. clones really just need the rooting compund and a good "cloning solution" ..


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## NewGrowth (Feb 24, 2009)

mightyboogie said:


> hallo
> my clones are 3 weeks old and they look like this:
> 
> 
> ...





doniawon said:


> they look rooted already... have you removed the dome or cracked it to adjust them to a lower humidity level... after a week or so the humidity needs to come down with each passing day just a little bit... 90% for the first week then 80.. 70 .. on down to 50..
> also how much nutes .. clones really just need the rooting compund and a good "cloning solution" ..



I agree with don, no nutes for clones. Lower the humidity and don't over saturate your rockwool.


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## mightyboogie (Feb 24, 2009)

tnx guys!


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## CannabisCuban (Feb 25, 2009)

im gunna be using a hydrofarm megagarden. i wanted to know how i should have them in my tray. in pots with rock wool and hydroton or just big 4"x4" rockwool blocks just in the tray, till the roots get too big and i would put them on coco slabs


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## NewGrowth (Feb 25, 2009)

CannabisCuban said:


> im gunna be using a hydrofarm megagarden. i wanted to know how i should have them in my tray. in pots with rock wool and hydroton or just big 4"x4" rockwool blocks just in the tray, till the roots get too big and i would put them on coco slabs


Either way will work both media's have positive and negative attributes. Hydroton will need to be flooded more often but if you get the schedule right it will provide superior rootzone aeration. Rockwool and hydroton are also compatible with H202 Coco coir is not. Large rockwool blocks will hold more water for longer periods requiring them to be flooded less often. Coco coir provides superior air/water ratio and is near impossible to overwater. The organic material will often break off and clog up pumps in a flood system.

Hydroton in pots will also allow you to move your plants around and prevent root entanglement. With coir and large block you can achieve higher plant density if you are going for a SOG. 

So it is really dependent on your style, personal preferences and what you are comfortable with. Good luck!


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## doniawon (Feb 27, 2009)

NWGRWTH, ?? I AM GOIN GOING TO BE SETTING UP A 20 FT BY 10 FT SPACE, IN A FRIENDS HOUSE AND HE DOESNT SMOKE AND HAS NEVER GROWN ANYTHING.. 
i WANTED TO SET UP THE EASIEST MATIENCE FREE ROOM POSSIBLE.. SO I WAS THINKING THE EBB AND GRO SYSTEM AND FLORA NOVA NUTRIENTS.. HAVE YOU HAD ANY EXPERIENCE WITH THIS SYSTEM?? AND DO YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS ON AN EASIER SYSTEM WITH GOOD RESULTS..


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## NewGrowth (Feb 27, 2009)

doniawon said:


> NWGRWTH, ?? I AM GOIN GOING TO BE SETTING UP A 20 FT BY 10 FT SPACE, IN A FRIENDS HOUSE AND HE DOESNT SMOKE AND HAS NEVER GROWN ANYTHING..
> i WANTED TO SET UP THE EASIEST MATIENCE FREE ROOM POSSIBLE.. SO I WAS THINKING THE EBB AND GRO SYSTEM AND FLORA NOVA NUTRIENTS.. HAVE YOU HAD ANY EXPERIENCE WITH THIS SYSTEM?? AND DO YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS ON AN EASIER SYSTEM WITH GOOD RESULTS..


Lowest maintenance? Why not just do with soil? Or if you are insistent on hydro, use coco-coir in grow bags.


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## GypsyBush (Feb 27, 2009)

Hi NG...

How goes it...?

Just stopping by to share what RIU has allowed me to achieve...

Here is a current look at things...

























An Indica that made it's way in with the Sativas...







And the Veg area with the moms, clones and a few edibles...





​


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## NewGrowth (Feb 27, 2009)

Looks great gypsy! Big jump from that original AG.


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## GypsyBush (Feb 27, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Looks great gypsy! Big jump from that original AG.


Thanks... It's been hard, with my leg all fucked up and all... and I am not done yet... there is a lot of tweaking to be done still...

But my blood, sweat, tears and PAIN have paid off...

The Gypster is HAPPY...!!!! ​


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## GypsyBush (Feb 27, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Looks great gypsy! Big jump from that original AG.


I'd say...lol...


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## doniawon (Feb 27, 2009)

gypsy,,,, you keep on keepin on .. your sog is way on point and your love for it is asperational.. (yah probably didnt spell that right).. your gonna win me over i think no doubt.. 
New i just bought the ebb and gro with two add on's.. 24site.. ill post pics in about a month on that one.. got the flora nova and meters .. hydro is all i know so??? had to do it.. did see the new hydrofarm coco bags 2 gal.. just scared of the trial and error of soil (soilless) wanted the growth rates.. thanks for the sug.. also i got a bunch of stuff free from the hydro store today for the donation.. i got 30 + 3.5 net cups and i was thinking of converting a rubbermaid underbed storage conainer into a dwc aero combo.. would this work .. any suggestions on the design .. i have never used aero or dwc and have never really made one..

any and all info apprecihhhhhd


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## NewGrowth (Feb 27, 2009)

I tried to build a "low profile" DWC system with one of those under bed storage containers. It was problematic, maintaining correct water level was tricky and the small reservoir size caused a lot of flux in Ph, PPM, ect. For homemade stuff I would stick with the larger tubs.


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## doniawon (Feb 27, 2009)

what would you do with these net cups?? i use hydroton and i use 30 plants per cycle.. i only see my room once a week so i need low maint.. room size is 8x8 8ft. ceilings>>> what are some of the problems with dwc in large tubs?? some things to look for etc..


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## karlt2005 (Feb 28, 2009)

hi newgrowth keeping up the good work i see! i have added nutrients to my seedlings lowered the light they are looking really good, i was just wondering when should i bump my ppm? its at 400 now but i dont know what to do! should i raise it slowly or just put it upto say 800 what do you recomend i do? cheers man keep up the good work!!!


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## NewGrowth (Feb 28, 2009)

doniawon said:


> what would you do with these net cups?? i use hydroton and i use 30 plants per cycle.. i only see my room once a week so i need low maint.. room size is 8x8 8ft. ceilings>>> what are some of the problems with dwc in large tubs?? some things to look for etc..


I would install a battery back-up to run air pumps incase of a power out especially since you will only see the room once a week. I would also install float valves attached to a larger reservoir to maintain proper water levels this is vital for smaller plants. I just don't think DWC is well suited for large scale ops. Something close would be a dutch bucket system but this is more suited for LARGE plants not a SOG.





karlt2005 said:


> hi newgrowth keeping up the good work i see! i have added nutrients to my seedlings lowered the light they are looking really good, i was just wondering when should i bump my ppm? its at 400 now but i dont know what to do! should i raise it slowly or just put it upto say 800 what do you recomend i do? cheers man keep up the good work!!!


We were discussing this earlier, just monitor your ppm levels and growth rates and follow these rules. Best indicator is ALWAYS plant health and vigor. No need to waste nutrients 

1.Water level drops PPM goes up: Drop your nutrient strength in relationship to the PPM rise. 
2. Water level drops PPM stays the same: You may be able to fine tune you nutrient strength, if growth is vigorous leave it alone.
3. Water level drops PPM drops: Raise you nutrient strength in relationship too PPM drop.


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## karlt2005 (Mar 5, 2009)

cheers pal that makes so much sense now, another question i have been watering 3 times a day during the day light hours my babies look over watered how often should i water? my rock wool is always dripping when i pick it up i know this is too much water and can cause problems, there on 18/6 whats the best watering schedule????????? again ty and keep up the good work............


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## NewGrowth (Mar 5, 2009)

karlt2005 said:


> cheers pal that makes so much sense now, another question i have been watering 3 times a day during the day light hours my babies look over watered how often should i water? my rock wool is always dripping when i pick it up i know this is too much water and can cause problems, there on 18/6 whats the best watering schedule????????? again ty and keep up the good work............


Depends on the size of the plants and rockwool. If your rockwool is always soaked cut back to two times or even one for large cubes. A little drying is good it draws oxygen into the rootzone and promotes downward root growth.


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## karlt2005 (Mar 6, 2009)

the rockwool is 4x4x2 and the plants are only 2 weeks old, so ill try once a day and just watch they dont dry too fast thanks dude


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## CannabisCloset (Mar 6, 2009)

i have used gh 3 part (and monsterbloom for most of flowering) several times had pretty good results with it and i just started using ionic grow and greenfuse and i am going to try the ionic bloom greenfuse. Also


ebb 2x 6 gal res
ph 5.8 to 6.4
640 w hps 
3ft x 3ft x 8ft

i want what every one whats better yield

so first can i use monsterbloom AND ionic bloom AND greenfuse or should i only use both ionic products 

any sugestions on beefing up my flowers?

and i havent been able to put an end to myth or truth about 

koolaid ?? = flavor is so when how much so on

molasas ?? flavor? smell? taste? when and how much

also H202 is that just good for plants in general or roots flowering veg?

thank you for any or all reaplies


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## gassman55 (Mar 6, 2009)

do you find that hydro is better than dirt


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## karlt2005 (Mar 6, 2009)

also dude i have just ordered a humidifier online but it wont come till monday my humidity is low im misting my young ones to keep the moisture up but i know its way too low. i dont know what my humidity is because my electronic temp/humidity meter the humditity does not read for some reason? to cut a long boarning story short lol what tips have you got to keep my humidity up!!! cheers man


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## NewGrowth (Mar 6, 2009)

CannabisCloset said:


> i have used gh 3 part (and monsterbloom for most of flowering) several times had pretty good results with it and i just started using ionic grow and greenfuse and i am going to try the ionic bloom greenfuse. Also
> 
> 
> ebb 2x 6 gal res
> ...


I'm sure you could but, why? Seems like a waste, plants can only utilize so many nutrients using extra just costs money.



> any sugestions on beefing up my flowers?


Clones or seed? I plant 20-30 seeds and select a few mothers out of that only the best are kept. Fast and dense growth means more buds.



> and i havent been able to put an end to myth or truth about


Ok here we go . . .



> koolaid ?? = flavor is so when how much so on


Myth, save the koolaid for drinking



> molasas ?? flavor? smell? taste? when and how much


Please leave this out of hydro, just causes problems



> also H202 is that just good for plants in general or roots flowering veg?


Yep 35% @ 1.7ml/L will keep your reservoir nice and clean it will also provide more oxygen to the rootzone. It can be used throughout your grow however it is not compatible with anything organic.



> thank you for any or all reaplies


For sure, thanks for stopping by 



gassman55 said:


> do you find that hydro is better than dirt


No, depends on what you like. Hydro is generally faster so plants grow faster and die faster. Hydro gives you a bit more control but is also less forgiving.



karlt2005 said:


> also dude i have just ordered a humidifier online but it wont come till monday my humidity is low im misting my young ones to keep the moisture up but i know its way too low. i dont know what my humidity is because my electronic temp/humidity meter the humditity does not read for some reason? to cut a long boarning story short lol what tips have you got to keep my humidity up!!! cheers man


Humidifier is best but misting works and so does containers of water just sitting out. If you live in a climate as dry as mine you will not be able to get it much over 38-40%. Not a huge deal a low humidity is actually desirable during flower.


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## Ramon66 (Mar 6, 2009)

hey NEWGROWTH. I got a quick question for you. I have learned a ton with your help along with trial and error.
my question is this. is it possible to achieve 5-6' plants using 3gal buckets with hydroton. I have them staked just in case they want to lean, but will there be enough room for root development for a plant that size?


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## NewGrowth (Mar 6, 2009)

Ramon66 said:


> hey NEWGROWTH. I got a quick question for you. I have learned a ton with your help along with trial and error.
> my question is this. is it possible to achieve 5-6' plants using 3gal buckets with hydroton. I have them staked just in case they want to lean, but will there be enough room for root development for a plant that size?


I doubt a 6 foot plant would do to well in a three gallon bucket. Check out dutch bucket systems for larger plants.


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## GypsyBush (Mar 6, 2009)

In the middle of all these words... how about a calyx... ???


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## karlt2005 (Mar 7, 2009)

i was ask for my veg room, the humidity in there is ment to be higher right? anyways thanks for the advice!


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## doniawon (Mar 8, 2009)

NEW?? i treated my plants with bushmaster and it burned the shit out of them.. now im getting the new growth after I flushed... the "new growth" has tiny leaves that are really skinny and they are curling at the tops.. i will get some pics up tonight... but im pissed cause .. well youll see later.. .what is the reason for the skinny tiny leaves ??? i think the curl if from overwatering? i cut the drip cycles down .. any help appreciated


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## NewGrowth (Mar 8, 2009)

doniawon said:


> NEW?? i treated my plants with bushmaster and it burned the shit out of them.. now im getting the new growth after I flushed... the "new growth" has tiny leaves that are really skinny and they are curling at the tops.. i will get some pics up tonight... but im pissed cause .. well youll see later.. .what is the reason for the skinny tiny leaves ??? i think the curl if from overwatering? i cut the drip cycles down .. any help appreciated


From what I have heard bushmaster is really strong and should be used in much lower doses than those recommended on the bottle. I would assume the deformation is also due to the bushmaster. The other possibility is a Ph problem. Hope they get better, good luck bro.


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## polishfalcon420 (Mar 9, 2009)

hey newgrowth great thread lots of great info. I am planning an ebb and flow setup. I was looking at the bigfoot lowprofile setup. any thoughts on what is capable with this setup? number and plant size? my ceilings are only 6.5ft tall. what do you suggest for lights? I have a 1000w hortilux mh and hps but Im not sure about using them with the height issue. I only want to grow like 10-15 plants if possble. I will have to start from seed. is the 1000w overkill?


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## doniawon (Mar 10, 2009)

still no pics sorry.. always forget my damn camera... but them things broke out of it and shot up half a foot it seems in overnight!!!!!!!!!!! the new growth is lime green and proper sized finally .. this is my first time with co2 and i can see the difference finally.. yea.. doubt ill mess with bushmaster again


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## Bublonichronic (Mar 10, 2009)

Yo NewGrowth ima total Idiot but i was thinking about trying a cheap hydro grow next what do you think the best DIY set up for me is and do you think you could give me a quick run down on exactly how it works


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## NewGrowth (Mar 10, 2009)

doniawon said:


> still no pics sorry.. always forget my damn camera... but them things broke out of it and shot up half a foot it seems in overnight!!!!!!!!!!! the new growth is lime green and proper sized finally .. this is my first time with co2 and i can see the difference finally.. yea.. doubt ill mess with bushmaster again


Nice glad to hear. From what people have told me bushmaster works best as a mild foliar spray and only at certain times. I just have not personal experience with it.



polishfalcon420 said:


> hey newgrowth great thread lots of great info. I am planning an ebb and flow setup. I was looking at the bigfoot lowprofile setup. any thoughts on what is capable with this setup? number and plant size? my ceilings are only 6.5ft tall. what do you suggest for lights? I have a 1000w hortilux mh and hps but Im not sure about using them with the height issue. I only want to grow like 10-15 plants if possble. I will have to start from seed. is the 1000w overkill?


I don't think 1000w is overkill what are the dimensions of your space? I have never heard of bigfoot do you have a link?



Bublonichronic said:


> Yo NewGrowth ima total Idiot but i was thinking about trying a cheap hydro grow next what do you think the best DIY set up for me is and do you think you could give me a quick run down on exactly how it works


I would go with a simple DWC set up. A google search on home made DWC should give you some good examples. 

DWC (Deep Water Culture) means the roots are suspended in an aerated nutrient solution. Is consists of a tub and an air-stone.


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## polishfalcon420 (Mar 11, 2009)

I found the bigfoot low pro setup on 4hydroponics.com in the ebb n flow section. my room dimensions are 6x6 with 6.5 ceilings. I could make the room larger but the ceilings are my drawback. I like heaths vert grow setup but think its a lot of work for the low number of plants.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 11, 2009)

polishfalcon420 said:


> I found the bigfoot low pro setup on 4hydroponics.com in the ebb n flow section. my room dimensions are 6x6 with 6.5 ceilings. I could make the room larger but the ceilings are my drawback. I like heaths vert grow setup but think its a lot of work for the low number of plants.


I have done 1000watts in a small space like that. The major problem is heat control. It is impossible to do without a cool tube and some good fans pulling air through the space. Vertical set-ups are nice I like Heath's too, maybe you could pack more into that space doing that . . . .


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## polishfalcon420 (Mar 11, 2009)

on the DWC subject I have seen people that just airate the nute solution and others that do this also with a water pump running the solution to the medium in the net pot. is it beneficial or necessary to do this. I was looking at the bucket style with just the air pump. is it efficiant and how much of a pain is it to maintain? I am new to the hydro thing and dont want things to get to complicated. it seems that maintaining water level and resevoir changes could be a pain, or is it simpler than I am suggesting?


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## NewGrowth (Mar 11, 2009)

polishfalcon420 said:


> on the DWC subject I have seen people that just airate the nute solution and others that do this also with a water pump running the solution to the medium in the net pot. is it beneficial or necessary to do this. I was looking at the bucket style with just the air pump. is it efficiant and how much of a pain is it to maintain? I am new to the hydro thing and dont want things to get to complicated. it seems that maintaining water level and resevoir changes could be a pain, or is it simpler than I am suggesting?


THe additional drip lines are a marketing scheme and are unnecessary, unless you are referring to dutch bucket system which is not really DWC.

Buckets with just the air pump are simple and very easy to maintain. Reservoir changes are made easy by the lids that fit right into any 5gal bucket. All you have to do is mix up a solution in a spare bucket, pull out the plant and air stone, transfer to the new bucket.

Often VERY large plants are grown in buckets.


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## polishfalcon420 (Mar 11, 2009)

could you fit 6 smaller plants in like a 20g tub without issue? then I could just setup 2 tubs with 6 each. how tall would the said bucket or tub have to be for proper root growth? by the way man thanks for the info.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 11, 2009)

polishfalcon420 said:


> could you fit 6 smaller plants in like a 20g tub without issue? then I could just setup 2 tubs with 6 each. how tall would the said bucket or tub have to be for proper root growth? by the way man thanks for the info.


Yes you could do this. I have done it for a med patient, it was a perpetual SOG using four 18g rubbermaid totes with 10 plants each. Roots space is not much of an issue, I suppose the tubs are about 24" tall give or take. Clones were flowered at 6-8".

The set-up was not pure DWC but a aeroponic fog/DWC cross. The tubs were filled a little over half way with nutrient solution and a floating fogger was placed in each. Growth rates were amazing in that fog.


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## polishfalcon420 (Mar 11, 2009)

sweet, what size air pump did you use in the 18g? and how did you divide the light cycle in the sog? did you have plants in both the veg and flower stage in the same area or did you seperate them? probably sounds stupid but just thought I would ask.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 11, 2009)

polishfalcon420 said:


> sweet, what size air pump did you use in the 18g? and how did you divide the light cycle in the sog? did you have plants in both the veg and flower stage in the same area or did you seperate them? probably sounds stupid but just thought I would ask.


I used those submersible air-pumps. I started him off with a batch of auto flowers, I made his other closet into a space for clones and to keep mothers on 18/6 light cycle.


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## TheSalesman (Mar 11, 2009)

I too would like to know what air pump is recommended for a 18 gallon res. I am just waiting on my seeds, but I got a pump rated for 20 gallon with a dual outlet going to two 1' airstones and a smaller pump rated at 15 gallons pushing a small 6" stone.

Not sure if that will be enough. If not, will attaching the stones to the side of the container do better?

Also, what do you recommend for preparing tap water. I've read leave it out for a week and maybe throw some peroxide in.


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## polishfalcon420 (Mar 11, 2009)

well I think Im going to give the dwc bubblponics a try when I get around to it. if you got any advice on nutes that would be great. have you ever used Iguana juice? is an all organic nute ok to use in this setup? if not what do you recommend I want to keep the mixing simple to start with. I dont really want to do something like add this much of this and that much of that o' and dont forget to add this too.


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## doniawon (Mar 12, 2009)

here are my plants after 4 days of burn and terrible growth using half the recomended dose of bushmaster IN the resivoire... now i need stretch master


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## NewGrowth (Mar 12, 2009)

TheSalesman said:


> I too would like to know what air pump is recommended for a 18 gallon res. I am just waiting on my seeds, but I got a pump rated for 20 gallon with a dual outlet going to two 1' airstones and a smaller pump rated at 15 gallons pushing a small 6" stone.
> 
> Not sure if that will be enough. If not, will attaching the stones to the side of the container do better?
> 
> Also, what do you recommend for preparing tap water. I've read leave it out for a week and maybe throw some peroxide in.


The more air the better, I think you will be fine with what you have.

Tap water should be initially tested for Ph and total dissolved solids. Most tap water will work just fine. Some areas have highly chlorinated tap water.

I would just try it out unless you know you have bad water in your area.



polishfalcon420 said:


> well I think Im going to give the dwc bubblponics a try when I get around to it. if you got any advice on nutes that would be great. have you ever used Iguana juice? is an all organic nute ok to use in this setup? if not what do you recommend I want to keep the mixing simple to start with. I dont really want to do something like add this much of this and that much of that o' and dont forget to add this too.


I use Ionic brand nutrients and no additive except H2O2 and in some systems hygrozyme in place of H202. I have never tried Iguana Juice. My recommendation is to stick with what you are comfortable with.



doniawon said:


> here are my plants after 4 days of burn and terrible growth using half the recomended dose of bushmaster IN the resivoire... now i need stretch master


They don't look too bad, I see those mini leaves you were talking about. 

 stretch master, maybe they will sell that for outdoor growers when legalization comes around. Imagine a marijuana privacy hedge


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## Ramon66 (Mar 14, 2009)

hey new growth. have another question for you.
I have 30 plants on a 5'x20' table. each plant is in a 3gal bucket using hydroton. I have 3 1000 watt cool tubes with dual spectrum bulbs. I use a 35gal tub for water and nutes. I run water lines to each plant. water drains back to tub. now I have 2 plants that reached 18" the first 3 weeks of veg. I have been topping them weekly to let the others catch up. the others are between 12 and 15 inches, very healthy and bushy. it is now week 8 of veg, the 2 tall plants are at 20" and I do not want to top anymore. what would be causing the slow growth with the other plants, if there is no nute burn and all other things seem perfect? do I need to prune the plants to get them to grow taller? the stalks are thick and branches thick to. should I just turn them to flower or prune and wait till they catch up? I dont want to be impatient, but 8weeks of veg is nuts. the others came a week later and I have been slowing them to try and even things out. they would be close to 3' if I would have let them go. whats the deal.

any help would be fantastic thanks again. oh and they are all grand daddy purps if that helps, and running General hydro micro and grow with some super thrive H202 never any funk and change res once per week. have been keeping PH at 5.2-5.8 daily. was told to start at 5.2 and let it go up to 6.5 to allow for better absorption of N, P and mag. have not been doing this, but started today.
sorry for the length of the question. thanks.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 14, 2009)

Ramon66 said:


> hey new growth. have another question for you.
> I have 30 plants on a 5'x20' table. each plant is in a 3gal bucket using hydroton. I have 3 1000 watt cool tubes with dual spectrum bulbs. I use a 35gal tub for water and nutes. I run water lines to each plant. water drains back to tub. now I have 2 plants that reached 18" the first 3 weeks of veg. I have been topping them weekly to let the others catch up. the others are between 12 and 15 inches, very healthy and bushy. it is now week 8 of veg, the 2 tall plants are at 20" and I do not want to top anymore. what would be causing the slow growth with the other plants, if there is no nute burn and all other things seem perfect? do I need to prune the plants to get them to grow taller?



Some plants just grow slower are they different strains? Have you sexed the plants yet? They should be showing pre-flowers by now, males grow taller and faster most of the time. 



> the stalks are thick and branches thick to. should I just turn them to flower or prune and wait till they catch up? I dont want to be impatient, but 8weeks of veg is nuts. the others came a week later and I have been slowing them to try and even things out. they would be close to 3' if I would have let them go. whats the deal.


I would not prune during flower at all, just let them grow out some LST might be in order to help even out the canopy. 




> any help would be fantastic thanks again. oh and they are all grand daddy purps if that helps, and running General hydro micro and grow with some super thrive H202 never any funk and change res once per week. have been keeping PH at 5.2-5.8 daily. was told to start at 5.2 and let it go up to 6.5 to allow for better absorption of N, P and mag. have not been doing this, but started today.
> sorry for the length of the question. thanks.


It really sounds like you are doing great, don't be too hard on yourself nature runs its course.


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## Ramon66 (Mar 15, 2009)

yes they are all the same strain, but from different mothers. all female clones from a club near by. I went ahead and thinned them out so they get full light to all branches, and set my timers for 12/12
going to go ahead and flower. most ar 15" . if all goes well they should double in size. thanks for all the help.


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## bonham1989 (Mar 18, 2009)

Hey NewGrowth 
I am starting to look into setting up an ebb/flow system. I will probably be doing continuous harvest SOG and using 4-15W/225 LED blue/red mixed spectrum lights and some t8 fluorescents. The questions I have are: how do you use nutrients in an ebb/flow system? do you ever give the plants straight water or is it always a nutrient solution before flushing? also when putting plants into an early flowering do you ever use veg nutes or just bloom nutes? what kind of nutes do you recomend for this type of sytem?
Sorry for so many questions but you seem to be the best person to ask.
-Peace


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## NewGrowth (Mar 18, 2009)

bonham1989 said:


> Hey NewGrowth
> I am starting to look into setting up an ebb/flow system. I will probably be doing continuous harvest SOG and using 4-15W/225 LED blue/red mixed spectrum lights and some t8 fluorescents.


Cool LED's! I would like to see more of these grows.



> The questions I have are: how do you use nutrients in an ebb/flow system?


Same as any other hydro with some minor adjustments depending on the medium used. I just run nutrients and H202.



> do you ever give the plants straight water or is it always a nutrient solution before flushing?


This is medium dependent, I will flush rockwool with fresh water avery two weeks to prevent any salt build up. I have found this to be mostly unnecessary when using hydroton. Usually my final flush before harvest is only for a day or two unless I have been having problems.



> also when putting plants into an early flowering do you ever use veg nutes or just bloom nutes?


That is really dependent on the situation. Sometimes if flowering is rapid I will give them a little nitrogen boost early on. Late in flower I run strictly bloom nutes, sometimes in the last few weeks I will add a little Ionic Boost if flower formation is still vigorous. 



> what kind of nutes do you recomend for this type of sytem?


Nutrients are a personal choice, I do not recommend "Organic" hydro however. I use Ionic for its low cost, two part, because I am comfortable using it, dissolves well, and has excellent Ph buffers.
My best advice would be to use what works well for you.



> Sorry for so many questions but you seem to be the best person to ask.
> -Peace


Ask away! I'm happy to answer questions. Good luck! Send some pics of your LED buds my way


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## bonham1989 (Mar 18, 2009)

Thanks for all that good info. I'll be getting a camera soon and get pics of the L.E.D. bud. It has been working good with my soil set up so far.
Thanks again.
Peace


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## CannabisCloset (Mar 21, 2009)

what kind of system and how many site to yield 6-8 lb i was thinking about using t8s for the whole life of of the plants i have a large room prob 12 ft. by 16 ft. and my concerns are if i would use 600w hps it would be pretty expensive to run and cooling would be a problem i have about 3k to build this room and system


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## doniawon (Mar 21, 2009)

6-8 lbs with t-8's.. lol..


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## CannabisCloset (Mar 21, 2009)

doniawon said:


> 6-8 lbs with t-8's.. lol..



really mature i ask a question and you post something pointless laughing like your something special, if you are something special then i think you might have responded with advice from experience but i really wasnt asking you was i.


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## doniawon (Mar 22, 2009)

sorry bro .. well i just spent 3000 and finished the set up today .. ill post some pics of my 3000 dollar set up.. im expecting 5.5 lbs.. maybe this will help you better.. i just couldnt imagine a t-8 set up doing much .. at all.. so i chuckled a bit.. watch for some pics tonight on here..you dont have to be special to grow weeds..


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## SpruceZeus (Mar 22, 2009)

CannabisCloset said:


> what kind of system and how many site to yield 6-8 lb i was thinking about using t8s for the whole life of of the plants i have a large room prob 12 ft. by 16 ft. and my concerns are if i would use 600w hps it would be pretty expensive to run and cooling would be a problem i have about 3k to build this room and system


https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/174170-zeuss-how-grow-dope-q.html
Growing dope is pretty expensive, there are certain things you just can't skimp on (light, ventilation) but if you can figure out cheaper ways to do it with equal effectiveness, all the power to ya!!!






While i'm here,
Newgrowth, I'm currently doing ebb and flow in a 2x4 table (soon to be 2) 
I'm going straight from my aerocloner to hydroton without using RW. currently i have 21 netpots on my table. However i've been told that these are the wrong pots for the job. I've yet to experience any difficultys but ominous warnings to confuse and confound me.
My question basically is, If i continue to grow in the netpots will i run into trouble with my roots coming into the light or will they just be air pruned without issue?




Using Holland secret 3 part at 1.4 EC as well as 35% H202 at about 3ml to the gallon. Under a cooltubed 1000.
Ignoring the almost dead ones (poorly rooted, never really had a chance) Does this look like problems waiting to happen?
The roots are starting to creep up the channels of the table, is it okay to leave it as so or should i do something about it? 
maybe
-Take a piece of black and white poly and cutting holes for the plants lay it across the whole table.
or
-Fill in all the gaps with more hydroton.
-(god forbid) take some sciscors and snip the stray roots?

Thanks and peace to you.


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## hendry (Mar 22, 2009)

Is a whiper 40 air pump enough for an 18 gallon dwc? Its hooked up to a tee with two 6" airstones.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 23, 2009)

CannabisCloset said:


> what kind of system and how many site to yield 6-8 lb i was thinking about using t8s for the whole life of of the plants i have a large room prob 12 ft. by 16 ft. and my concerns are if i would use 600w hps it would be pretty expensive to run and cooling would be a problem i have about 3k to build this room and system


I'm sure you could get 6-8lbs with t8's but it would probably end up costing you more in the long run. You would have to buy A LOT of t8's If you can't afford proper ventilation then you may want to scale down your ambitions a bit. With 3k you could easily set up a small perpetual harvest system running 1-2 air cooled 1000w HPS and have another space for mothers and clones under a smaller HID or flouros. 
To put things into perspective estimate 1oz per plant so you would need to flower about 96 small plants. To do this under t8's would require quite a few of them. The lumen/watt output is much greater for HID's making them more efficient. Hope this helps with your planning, trust me there is a good reason growers use HID lighting. 



SpruceZeus said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/174170-zeuss-how-grow-dope-q.html
> Growing dope is pretty expensive, there are certain things you just can't skimp on (light, ventilation) but if you can figure out cheaper ways to do it with equal effectiveness, all the power to ya!!!


Thanks man I'll have to read more of your thread I really like your set-up. Your cost saving DIY stuff is great!



> While i'm here,
> Newgrowth, I'm currently doing ebb and flow in a 2x4 table (soon to be 2)
> I'm going straight from my aerocloner to hydroton without using RW. currently i have 21 netpots on my table. However i've been told that these are the wrong pots for the job. I've yet to experience any difficultys but ominous warnings to confuse and confound me.
> My question basically is, If i continue to grow in the netpots will i run into trouble with my roots coming into the light or will they just be air pruned without issue?


They will probably prune themselves both because of light and drying.



> Using Holland secret 3 part at 1.4 EC as well as 35% H202 at about 3ml to the gallon. Under a cooltubed 1000.
> Ignoring the almost dead ones (poorly rooted, never really had a chance) Does this look like problems waiting to happen?
> The roots are starting to creep up the channels of the table, is it okay to leave it as so or should i do something about it?
> maybe
> ...


The roots are going to migrate out of your pots, especially where they are protected from light and where moisture is trapped. I think you best option is to cover them with something like panda plastic. You could fill the gaps with more hydroton but from a practical standpoint hydroton is heavy and will need to be washed and sterilized between harvests. The poly will also help reflect light and make it easy to un-clog your drains if needed.
Next time just go with regular cheap nursery pots, the ones you have are more suited for a dutch bucket set-up.

Everything else looks awesome man good work.



hendry said:


> Is a whiper 40 air pump enough for an 18 gallon dwc? Its hooked up to a tee with two 6" airstones.


The more air the better, the surface of the water should be turbulent with bubbles.


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## doniawon (Mar 23, 2009)

my new 3000 dolla system.... hope she gets it done


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## NewGrowth (Mar 23, 2009)

Nice don you're gonna have some bucket monsters


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## motif (Mar 24, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Nice don you're gonna have some bucket monsters


during the last 2-3 weeks of flowering, should i be trying to achieve maximum nutes without strong nute burn? Would a high P-K be good? What are some tricks of the trade near harvest, to fatten up and really BOOM your flowers?

also i have heard of using brown sugar during the flush period. the molasses gives it a good taste i believe. Would you recommend this? How much brown sugar (if this is whats chosen) would you use per gallon?

These are the current nutes and dosages of them im using per gallon, *WEEK 8 FLOWERING

25 ml of BC Boost/Bloom
3.0ml of MagiCal
3.0 ml of Thrive Alive B1 Red
20 ml of Botanicare Sweet
4 ml of Bloombastic


*My "Recipe for Success" (bundle of nutrients package with directions guaranteed to grow your shit) suggests during the last 7 days flushing to do this: First 3 days = 2.5 ml of Magical and 40 ml of Botanicare Sweet. The next 4 days just straight pH adjusted water. These two products suggests a high amount of Magnesium, Sulfur, and Iron (Botanicare Sweet 0-0-0) and Calcium, Magnesium, and Iron (Magical 2-0-0).

Are these few ingredients the secret to increasing your bud flowers during late weeks of flowering??


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## NewGrowth (Mar 24, 2009)

motif said:


> during the last 2-3 weeks of flowering, should i be trying to achieve maximum nutes without strong nute burn?


You should always be trying for this. I don't think I would say "maximum" nutes though. You are looking really only to provide what the plant will use and avoid excess.



> Would a high P-K be good? What are some tricks of the trade near harvest, to fatten up and really BOOM your flowers?


There are different things being sold to "BOOM" flowers. I feel the majority of these products make exagerated claims. I'm sure some of these products do work but the only way to know would be to try them out yourself. I like to keep it very simple and just add Ionic Boost during the last three weeks. Rapid bud growth occurs during these weeks and the plant will often use the
"extra" P-K.



> also i have heard of using brown sugar during the flush period. the molasses gives it a good taste i believe. Would you recommend this? How much brown sugar (if this is whats chosen) would you use per gallon?


This is a myth. Molasses is an old gardening trick that has appeared on the pot scene for some reason. Molasses will increase soil bio-activity by providing "food" for microbes. It also provides a small amount of NPK. The effectiveness of Molasses becomes greatly reduced when using chemical fertilizers. It is a good addition to your organic garden or compost pile however.

In hydro using molasses is just asking for trouble. Would you put sugar in your gas tank? Think clogged up pumps not to mention all the food you would be providing for microbial growth. 

Now for the taste part, I agree that organic soil grown pot has a better flavor. However I believe the average smoker could not tell the difference and there are many more factors that go into taste.



> These are the current nutes and dosages of them im using per gallon, *WEEK 8 FLOWERING
> 
> 25 ml of BC Boost/Bloom
> 3.0ml of MagiCal
> ...


*

Wow that is a lot of stuff. Here are mine:

1,400 total PPM Ionic Bloom/Boost
1.7ml/L H202 35%

Uhh some Ph down and thats it . . . .


*


> My "Recipe for Success" (bundle of nutrients package with directions guaranteed to grow your shit) suggests during the last 7 days flushing to do this: First 3 days = 2.5 ml of Magical and 40 ml of Botanicare Sweet. The next 4 days just straight pH adjusted water. These two products suggests a high amount of Magnesium, Sulfur, and Iron (Botanicare Sweet 0-0-0) and Calcium, Magnesium, and Iron (Magical 2-0-0).
> 
> Are these few ingredients the secret to increasing your bud flowers during late weeks of flowering??


There are no secrets . . . Increased yield has more to do with genetics and growing conditions. I also factor in cost, why buy all that stuff when I can get the same results without it?

I would not recommend high Calcium, Mg, or Iron. These are called micronutrients for a reason adding too much will cause lockout.

Good luck


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## motif (Mar 25, 2009)

thanks for the input newgrowth, www.hidhut.com i got all those nutes plus lots more for only $29.95 ^_^


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## smoote1987 (Mar 25, 2009)

Hey new growth, i tried starting a thread to get my hydro questions answered but no such luck yet. Since you're offering up advice on anything hydro i thought that i'd just ask you the questions directly. 


I am using DWCS. 

Here's what i have:

 Tap Water, ph adjusted to 5.8 from 6.8

Powder Nutrients

 Potassium Nitrate (KNO3, 250g)
 Potassium Sulphate (K2SO4, 250g)
 Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4, 250g)
 Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4, 250g)
 Plantex CSM+B (1.5% Magnesium (MG), 1.5% Magnesium (cheleted),0.10% Copper (Cu),7.0% Iron (Fe - cheleted), 2.0% Maganese (Mn - Cheleted), 0.06% Molybedenum (MO), 0.40% Zinc (Zn - cheleted), +B is an extra addition of Boron. Don't know how much.

The reason that i have these nutrients is because i also grow aquatic plants in my aquarium. It works great for them, they grow fast and lush. Also in the aquarium world potassium is the key to limiting algae growth. The fine details are a little fuzzy but it works by algae not using it and the plants using it very efficiently, thus the plants out compete the algae for nutrients. I follow PPS PRO a tried and true formula and dosing regimen with the nutrients.

So that brings me to my question, I got to thinking one day before i set up my hydro while researching nutrients and thought why not just use the nutrients i have for the aquarium? I mean they dissolve very readily in water, I probably have enough powder nutrients to fertilize a small pond, and they're made to limit algae growth, major perks right?

So, this is where i'm at, i don't know where to go from here. How much of each should i use? Are there any of the nutrients that i don't have to or need to use? How would you use these nutrients? I read somewhere that having more potassium in your nutrients will produce more males from seed than females, is that true? that Any help will be greatly appreciated

As a side note: I also have the water quality report for my area and would like to adjust the nutrient solution to work with the contents of the tap water but have no idea what to look for on it, like what the hell are chloramines... SUPER CHLORINE. Eventually after a few grows i am hoping to have the nutrients tailored to each strain i have trough testing but right now i'm mainly looking for a general hydroponic nutrient formula for veg and flower.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 25, 2009)

smoote1987 said:


> Hey new growth, i tried starting a thread to get my hydro questions answered but no such luck yet. Since you're offering up advice on anything hydro i thought that i'd just ask you the questions directly.
> 
> 
> I am using DWCS.
> ...


Sounds like a cool experiment. I'm not sure how you would mix those nutes for marijuana. It seems there would be a lack of Ammoniacal Nitrogen in you mix however.

Here is what is in Ionic grow:
Calcium Nitrate
Potassium Nitrate
Phosphoric Acid
Nitric Acid
Potassium Sulfate and
Ammonium Nitrate

Maybe check the ingredients and ratios for General Hydroponic's dry nutrient mixes and see if you could come up with your own from what you've got. Basically you are formulating your own simple nutrient formula, I have never done this so keep me updated!


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## smoote1987 (Mar 25, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Sounds like a cool experiment. I'm not sure how you would mix those nutes for marijuana. It seems there would be a lack of Ammoniacal Nitrogen in you mix however.
> 
> Here is what is in Ionic grow:
> Calcium Nitrate
> ...


Thanks for replying so quick. Thanks for leading me in the right direction as well. 

Ok so i went and looked around the generalhydroponics website and various other hydro sites. I found that Maxi Grow/Bloom are their most common dry hydroponic nutrients. I saw from the image of the packaging that the ratios for Maxi Grow and Bloom are 10-5-14 and 5-15-14 respectively. The image also showed the package weight, 1kg (2.2 lbs). So therefore for Maxi Grow there is 100g (0.22) lbs nitrogen, 50g (0.11 lbs) phosphorus, and 140g (0.308 lbs) potassium. Maxi Bloom then would contain 50g (0.11 lbs) nitrogen, 150g (0.33 lbs) phosphorus, and 140g (0.308 lbs) potassium. Right? Because aren't the N-P-K ratios the percents of that nutrient contained in the fertilizer?  Huh, Thats well under 1kg of nutrients wonder what the rest of the 1 kg is?

The only thing that i can't find is their exact ingredients. After i know that i should be able to mix my solutions and follow the fertilizer schedule from the generalhydroponics website. So if you know where i could find that info or know of anyone who may be using these nutrients and could give me the rest of the information from the package that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for you help.

Thats funny that you mentioned the Ammoniacal Nitrogen as it was specifically left out of the PPS Pro Aquarium fertilizers because it is provided by the fauna (fish and etc.) in the aquarium. Also from the water quality report for my area i saw that it contains 3.5 ppm Nitrate already. Could this be enough to supplement the Ammonium Nitrate? I doubt it though.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 25, 2009)

smoote1987 said:


> Thanks for replying so quick. Thanks for leading me in the right direction as well.
> 
> Ok so i went and looked around the generalhydroponics website and various other hydro sites. I found that Maxi Grow/Bloom are their most common dry hydroponic nutrients. I saw from the image of the packaging that the ratios for Maxi Grow and Bloom are 10-5-14 and 5-15-14 respectively. The image also showed the package weight, 1kg (2.2 lbs). So therefore for Maxi Grow there is 100g (0.22) lbs nitrogen, 50g (0.11 lbs) phosphorus, and 140g (0.308 lbs) potassium. Maxi Bloom then would contain 50g (0.11 lbs) nitrogen, 150g (0.33 lbs) phosphorus, and 140g (0.308 lbs) potassium. Right? Because aren't the N-P-K ratios the percents of that nutrient contained in the fertilizer?  Huh, Thats well under 1kg of nutrients wonder what the rest of the 1 kg is?
> 
> ...



Ammonium nitrate is one of the most available sources of nitrogen for plant uptake. That is why it is used in much smaller quantities on chemical fertilizer regiments (think dog pee on a lawn). I doubt the available nitrogen in your tap water will be enough. 

Your ratios are correct however they only list the available percentages on most bottles. The other Kg is unavailable "byproduct". The chemical runoff from farms is polluting groundwater.

You may be able to find more exact formulations by request. I'm kinda baffled on this one large commercial vegetable growers mix their own fertilizers often. Small growers and hobby growers usually just buy them.


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## smoote1987 (Mar 25, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Ammonium nitrate is one of the most available sources of nitrogen for plant uptake. That is why it is used in much smaller quantities on chemical fertilizer regiments (think dog pee on a lawn). I doubt the available nitrogen in your tap water will be enough.
> 
> Your ratios are correct however they only list the available percentages on most bottles. The other Kg is unavailable "byproduct". The chemical runoff from farms is polluting groundwater.


I did not know that about Ammonium Nitrate or about the byproducts. I guess i'll have to look into that more to see what the actual "byproducts" are, i love learning things like that. I figured it wouldn't be enough in the water either, thanks for confirming. 



NewGrowth said:


> You may be able to find more exact formulations by request. I'm kinda baffled on this one large commercial vegetable growers mix their own fertilizers often. Small growers and hobby growers usually just buy them.


I think i'll send a request to GH, and maybe a few other companies that have dry hydro ferts. Maybe give a few different ratios a try. Haha yea i know. if it starts to get as confusing as it was for the aquarium i think i may just give in and buy some traditional hydroponic nutrients. I just thought it would be nice to use what i already have and the possibilities for customization are extremely tempting. Thanks again you've been very helpful. If you think of anything else... just keep 'em coming.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 25, 2009)

smoote1987 said:


> I did not know that about Ammonium Nitrate or about the byproducts. I guess i'll have to look into that more to see what the actual "byproducts" are, i love learning things like that. I figured it wouldn't be enough in the water either, thanks for confirming.
> 
> 
> 
> I think i'll send a request to GH, and maybe a few other companies that have dry hydro ferts. Maybe give a few different ratios a try. Haha yea i know. if it starts to get as confusing as it was for the aquarium i think i may just give in and buy some traditional hydroponic nutrients. I just thought it would be nice to use what i already have and the possibilities for customization are extremely tempting. Thanks again you've been very helpful. If you think of anything else... just keep 'em coming.


Good luck man you need a chemistry degree for some of this stuff  I just know the basics from College chemistry courses which I hated . 

Let me know what you come up with though.


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## detriumls (Mar 25, 2009)

I am learning alot. Thank you for the info.


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## motif (Mar 25, 2009)

do the homemade co2 (yeast/sugar in water shaken up) work well? what doses would you use for a 12 fl oz bottle?

is this too risky of getting mold to try?


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## doniawon (Mar 25, 2009)

i want to try that to suppliment


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## smoote1987 (Mar 25, 2009)

motif said:


> do the homemade co2 (yeast/sugar in water shaken up) work well? what doses would you use for a 12 fl oz bottle?
> 
> is this too risky of getting mold to try?


NewGrowth i hope you don't mind if i try to give motif some info on the yeast co2 method, i have a lot of experience using them to supplement co2 for my aquariums and have a very long-lasting and very productive recipe. However i cannot comment on whether or not it will be enough to maintain the optimum levels of co2 (which i think is 1200- 1500 ppm co2 but don't quote me on that) as i have never tried it or have the equipment to measure it. But if i were ever going to try to supplement co2 with a yeast co2 reactor this is the recipe i would use.

Ok motif, the formula that i use was developed to be long lasting and produce alot of co2 by Tarah Nyberg. If you search "Nyberg, yeast, co2" in google you will find quite a few hits. The first of which is a powerpoint presentation explaining about yeast and how the process works and etc. Its a short read and very informative.

Here is her recipe: 

_Improvise at will, but here is a good start:
2 tblsp yeast
Use 1 cup sugar per 2L luke warm H20 (tank water is great or dechlorinated tap -- chlorine, but not ammonia, kill yeast. ) (they like ammonia)
Add 1-2 tsp of a protein drink mix
(optional) 
Add 1 tsp of ammonium sulfate, otherwise use 1 T mollasses. (or both)
1 tsp baking soda is also nice to keep the pH from crashing (they like it >pH3-4)
Leave yeast from previous mix in the bottom. _

I used everything that was in that recipe and it worked great, i made a few adjustments and it worked even better for me. Originally i only used yeast, sugar and water but with the addition of the ammonium sulfate (syrup) and protein mix the longevity of the recipe and quantity of co2 doubled. With just the basic formula the co2 production would last about 2 weeks, and had a very bell curve production rate meaning slow to start, peak at the middle, slowly falls to nothing. This was not good for aquarium use as it is important to maintain consistent water parameters or you can stress out and harm your fish. The Nyberg recipe on the other hand starts out fast in production and then plateaus as the cultures of yeast are being kept very healthy, then it tapers off slowly and quickly ends. This was much better as the amount and production of co2 was more consistent. 

I tried adjusting the recipe every so often and found that 2 cups of sugar for 2L of water lasted about 3-4 weeks. Another thing to take account for is preparing the yeast before you add it to the mixture. 

This is a very much over looked practice but pays off greatly when done properly. I used regular bakers yeast that you find at the grocery store in the baking aisle. I happened to come across two kinds from red star i think one was regular yeast, and the other was highly active. I chose the highly active of course and it was the better choice. The yeast is dry when you buy it so it needs to be rehydrated to start the process of making co2. This being said most just pour the yeast into the mixture shake it up and let it go. When i did this i waited a full 12 hours before i saw my first bubble of co2 in the bottle. This was because by adding them straight to the mixture you end killing off a large portion of the yeast. 

What i do to ensure that more of the yeast bacteria survive the journey into the sugar mixture is add the 2 tblsp of yeast to a small glass of luke warm water with sugar. I then oxygenate the water through aeration by whisking it with a fork. This essentially wakes up the yeast bacteria and rehydrates them. I do this for about 5-10 mins stirring off and on making sure i'm creating bubbles as that ensures i am causing enough turbulence to cause a gas exchange to occur. I then add the yeast mixture to the sugar mixture and give it a little shake. When i did this i usually saw the first bubbles of co2 in 30 mins to an hour. 

*Some other things that i did to improve the whole process:*

attribute for the yeast mixture when creating the sugar mixture. I over flowed the bottle once and learned my lesson. 

A good funnel is a god-send. 

Adding a second bottle to function as a bubble counter to i could have at least some gauge of what was being produced was helpful. Basically it was yeast bottle outlet to bubble counter bottle, bubble counter has its own outlet. The outlet from the yeast bottle is inserted into the bubble counter bottle so that it is near the bottom of the bottle and then the outlet from the bubble counter was inserted just barely into the cap of the bottle. The bubble counter bottle is then filled with water. The co2 then bubbles up through the water and out of the shorter outlet hose. This also functions as a check valve for the yeast bottle as it sometimes can leak out a bubbly goo. 

Ummm the vitamin water bottles in 12 fl oz and 32 fl oz worked well as the bubble counter bottle and yeast bottle respectively. 32 fl oz is one liter so just cut the recipe in half. 

When making the holes in the caps of the bottles to insert the airline hose i used an awe, a screwdriver that come to a sharp point. It goes through the plastic caps easily when twisted and forced through with pressure and doesn't crack them. This allows you to not have to use a power drill or some other means. Also make sure the hole that you make in the cap is smaller in diameter than the airline hose you use so when you thread the hose through it forms a pressure seal and eliminates the need for bulkhead fittings or sealants. 

When threading the hose through the small holes in the caps it helps to cut the air line hose to have a point. You can then shove quite a bit of the point through the small hole and use pliers to pull it the rest of the way through.

Keep a spare cap that fits on your yeast bottle because you can't very well shake up the mixture with the air line outlet cap when you make the following batches. It saves you from getting a sticky hand when you realize thats the only way you're going to be able to cap the bottle to shake it.

 keep your yeast cold it will last longer

 Last but not least you'll eventually realize that its a bitch to have to change and mix all that crap up and replace it every three weeks and will spring for a nice co2 tank and regulator with a solenoid valve that hooks up to a co2 meter. Thats what i ended up doing at least well actually i still went on the cheaper side and started using a 20 oz paintball tank ($16 on ebay) and a paintball regulator, and needle valve combo ($34.99 from thatfishplace.com). A solenoid valve and meter would be really nice though. Let me know if you have any questions, i hope i didn't step on your toes here NewGrowth.


----------



## NewGrowth (Mar 25, 2009)

Thanks man well done


----------



## smoote1987 (Mar 25, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Thanks man well done


Haha ok good, only slightly worried. Didn't want to offend you answering a question on your advice thread. Yea alot of my knowledge for growing is from my aquarium. It was funny all my friends were trying to talk me into growing hydroponically in my aquarium i just laughed because little did they know what i already had growing hydroponically in the closet behind the aquarium


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## smoote1987 (Mar 28, 2009)

Hey Newgrowth,

So i've been scrounging around the internet still trying to find a dry fertilizer recipe as i wait for the replies to my emails and i finally came across a few valuable websites. The first two are examples of dry fertilizer recipes, and the third is a link to a research website that has several articles about hydroponic research experiments involving wheat. I read the whole site in one sitting. It was very informative and i thought you may be interested in taking a look as well. 

Oh if you could please take a look at the two nutrient recipes and give me some feed back of which one you would use, is anything missing, and what do you think about the article "ph monitoring and control" from the third website? I thought it was interesting that they maintained a 4 ph nutrient solution and the reasons why were well explained and documented.

1. http://www.hydroponics-at-home.com/plant-nutrients.html

2. http://members.tripod.com/~busiweb/hydro/juice.htm

3. http://www.usu.edu/cpl/research_hydroponics3.htm

Thanks again for your help.

Ha, and yea something else that i was thinking about the other day was... Do you think it makes a difference whether i use potassium nitrate, sodium nitrate, calcium nitrate, or etc. to act as the source of nitrogen in the hydroponic nutrient solution? Meaning other than the obvious difference between the nutrients mentioned above and what they're bonded with (sodium, potassium, calcium) do you think that their would be a drastic difference in results if the proper percentage of either of the minerals was used to supplement for nitrogen? The reason why i have been thinking this is because i have realized that there are many different mineral compounds that contain the nutrients of N-P-K that could be used for plant growth and it would be nice to know if there were certain minerals that are better than others to supplement for the N-P-K. What do you think or do you have any knowledge of why certain minerals are more commonly used than others? Don't worry if you cannot answer this last question i am more interested in what you think of the three links provided and i realize how complicated and abstract of a question it is . Thanks again!


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## NewGrowth (Mar 28, 2009)

smoote1987 said:


> Hey Newgrowth,
> 
> So i've been scrounging around the internet still trying to find a dry fertilizer recipe as i wait for the replies to my emails and i finally came across a few valuable websites. The first two are examples of dry fertilizer recipes, and the third is a link to a research website that has several articles about hydroponic research experiments involving wheat. I read the whole site in one sitting. It was very informative and i thought you may be interested in taking a look as well.
> 
> ...


Ok I'll check them all out later I only have a few minutes now looks interesting though.


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## HOHO (Mar 28, 2009)

hey ng i was wondering if you could tell me about using the 35% h2o2..i have been using the 3% for a while but decided to purchase the good stuff but the directions are not that good.. i'm using about 20 gallon res' and i'm a little unsure how to mix could u help?


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## NewGrowth (Mar 28, 2009)

HOHO said:


> hey ng i was wondering if you could tell me about using the 35% h2o2..i have been using the 3% for a while but decided to purchase the good stuff but the directions are not that good.. i'm using about 20 gallon res' and i'm a little unsure how to mix could u help?


The ratio for 35% IS 1.7ml/L. I just add it every two weeks when I change my res. 

PS- Not blowing you off 1987 just been busy lately and I want to look through your links well.


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## smoote1987 (Mar 29, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> PS- Not blowing you off 1987 just been busy lately and I want to look through your links well.


No problem, same here. 

I decided to try out the first links recipe as its ratios seemed to be close to a veg forumla, and i will be trying this out on my freshly transplanted clone. Plus my plant was really hurting for nutes and i couldn't wait any longer for a reply from the hydro companies. I guess from here i'm just going to watch my plants and see if there become any deficiencies and then adjust the recipe accordingly. Should be a nice learning experience. I guess after i get the process down i could very easily repeat it if any of the variables change such as new source of water, new strain and etc.

i should probably start a journal, shouldn't i? Better start buttering up the girl so i can use that digital camera she's got. I'll just ask her when were high .


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## NewGrowth (Mar 29, 2009)

smoote1987 said:


> No problem, same here.
> 
> I decided to try out the first links recipe as its ratios seemed to be close to a veg forumla, and i will be trying this out on my freshly transplanted clone. Plus my plant was really hurting for nutes and i couldn't wait any longer for a reply from the hydro companies. I guess from here i'm just going to watch my plants and see if there become any deficiencies and then adjust the recipe accordingly. Should be a nice learning experience. I guess after i get the process down i could very easily repeat it if any of the variables change such as new source of water, new strain and etc.
> 
> i should probably start a journal, shouldn't i? Better start buttering up the girl so i can use that digital camera she's got. I'll just ask her when were high .


Yeah start a journal and send me a link. I think experience is really the best teacher when it comes to growing. I would like to see what you come up with. Cool stuff man thanks or dropping by 

I would love to see some tested "home made" nutrient recipes for cannabis. I suppose you could always go to BC and try to find a VERY large grow-op. There are plenty and those guys mix their own often.


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## smoote1987 (Mar 29, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Yeah start a journal and send me a link. I think experience is really the best teacher when it comes to growing. I would like to see what you come up with. Cool stuff man thanks or dropping by
> 
> I would love to see some tested "home made" nutrient recipes for cannabis. I suppose you could always go to BC and try to find a VERY large grow-op. There are plenty and those guys mix their own often.


Will do on the journal. Im planning it when i harvest this current batch in a month. By then the clone that i'm trying things out on will be moving into the flower room so it wont be a good subject for a journal anymore. The cuts i took a little while ago will be ready for my dwc buckets in the veg chamber though. Hopefully i will have learned some from this current clone and the second batch of clones will be a good candidate for a journal. That will also be a good test for the timing of my perpetual harvest schedule as well. Trying to keep it efficient you know. 

I also just switched my grow from being horizontal scrog/lighting to vertical scrog/lighting and this will give me some time to practice and get my technique down. Well thanks again for your help i really appreciated. Keep it green .

Oh whats "BC"?


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## NewGrowth (Mar 29, 2009)

smoote1987 said:


> Will do on the journal. Im planning it when i harvest this current batch in a month. By then the clone that i'm trying things out on will be moving into the flower room so it wont be a good subject for a journal anymore. The cuts i took a little while ago will be ready for my dwc buckets in the veg chamber though. Hopefully i will have learned some from this current clone and the second batch of clones will be a good candidate for a journal. That will also be a good test for the timing of my perpetual harvest schedule as well. Trying to keep it efficient you know.
> 
> I also just switched my grow from being horizontal scrog/lighting to vertical scrog/lighting and this will give me some time to practice and get my technique down. Well thanks again for your help i really appreciated. Keep it green .
> 
> Oh whats "BC"?



British Columbia Canada, never heard of "BC" Bud?


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## smoote1987 (Mar 29, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> British Columbia Canada, never heard of "BC" Bud?


Haha yea ok i thought british columbia. Second guessed myself. Its on the other side of the country for me but i can dream.


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## Sgrios (Mar 30, 2009)

A few questions for you NewGrowth..

For my first build, I'd like to grow two plants. However I plan to grow up to six after I have my first grow under my belt. 

What Hydro method would you recommend for six plants? (I know you like flooding.)

Any PPM meter and or pH meter that you'd recommend?

 [FONT=&quot]Would a HydroFarm 1000W Convertible MH/HPS Ballast be over kill for six plants? I also plan to use a HydroFarm [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Dual Air Cool Tube - 48. What Grow light bulbs would you recommend?

What are your thoughts on Ultraviolet (UV) sterilisation?

[/FONT]Ionic Hydroponic nutrients, would you buy them in a gallon or five gallons?[FONT=&quot]

Thank you. 
[/FONT]


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## NewGrowth (Mar 30, 2009)

Sgrios said:


> A few questions for you NewGrowth..
> 
> For my first build, I'd like to grow two plants. However I plan to grow up to six after I have my first grow under my belt.
> 
> What Hydro method would you recommend for six plants? (I know you like flooding.)




I would do DWC buckets and grow big plants with all the light you have.



> Any PPM meter and or pH meter that you'd recommend?


Bluelab Truncheon is hands down the best PPM tester. Hannah makes a good ph pen.

[


> /SIZE]





> [FONT=&quot]Would a HydroFarm 1000W Convertible MH/HPS Ballast be over kill for six plants? I also plan to use a HydroFarm [/FONT


] 
Not if you grow them big, hydro farm is a good idea.

[


> FONT=Verdana][FONT=&quot]Dual Air Cool Tube - 48. What Grow light bulbs would you recommend?




Anything other than cheap chinese bulbs. Hortolux bulbs are worth the extra if you've got it.



> What are your thoughts on Ultraviolet (UV) sterilisation?


For what? Many Ozone generators use UV.




> [/FONT]





> [/FONT]Ionic Hydroponic nutrients, would you buy them in a gallon or five gallons?[FONT=&quot]




If you can afford five get it but you may not use them so that is up to you. I think for your size grow one gallon will work just fine.



> Thank you.





>





> [/FONT]


 No prob


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## Gmaccin6 (Mar 30, 2009)

hey newgrowth how do these ladies look and wat can i expect im in week 2 of flowering and wat about the clone u think ill get much? and can i jus use the res water to water the soil


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## GreenGold (Mar 30, 2009)

Great thread!
I am running FoxFarms GrowBig for veg and Sensi bloom 2 part for flowering.
Anyways has anyone every heard of a SOG specific nute regime?
Seems like someone would have posted something of this nature?


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## Sgrios (Mar 30, 2009)

[FONT=&quot]What are your thoughts on Ultraviolet (UV) sterilization?

For root sterilization. 

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Coralife Super Luft Pump Sl-38 High Pressure Air Pump 

Over kill for a air pump? 

Thoughts on the [/FONT] Bluelab Combo Meter?
[FONT=&quot]
Thanks again [/FONT]NewGrowth.


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## trombon84 (Mar 30, 2009)

1. What is the difference between a plant that is flushed with plain water in the last week of flowering and one that has nutrients till the end?

2. Does a bloom booster make such a big difference? does it worth it? (i use Hydroponics nuts)


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## NewGrowth (Mar 30, 2009)

Sgrios said:


> [FONT=&quot]What are your thoughts on Ultraviolet (UV) sterilization?
> 
> For root sterilization.




Never heard of it, seems like UV would damage the roots. H202 works best to keep things sterile.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Coralife Super Luft Pump Sl-38 High Pressure Air Pump 

Over kill for a air pump? [/QUOTE]

Water can only hold so much dissolved oxygen, hard to go overkill with an air pump though. You may want to expand later . . .



> Thoughts on the





> [/FONT] Bluelab Combo Meter?
> [FONT=&quot]
> Thanks again [/FONT]NewGrowth.


Works great, I've used it and was VERY happy with it.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 30, 2009)

trombon84 said:


> 1. What is the difference between a plant that is flushed with plain water in the last week of flowering and one that has nutrients till the end?


Flavor of final product, if you have the nutrients dialed in well then there is little to no difference.



> 2. Does a bloom booster make such a big difference? does it worth it? (i use Hydroponics nuts)


I answered this question earlier more in depth. The short version is some may work, many are marketing scams, and I don't use them personally.


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## trombon84 (Mar 30, 2009)

thank you.

so do you always cut the nutrients in the last week? is that not a to big stress ?


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## NewGrowth (Mar 30, 2009)

trombon84 said:


> thank you.
> 
> so do you always cut the nutrients in the last week? is that not a to big stress ?


I just scale down the nutrients and flush for a day or two with fresh water. The only exception is if I burn the plants and over fert, in that case I prefer a week flush with plain water.


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## Gmaccin6 (Mar 30, 2009)

Gmaccin6 said:


> hey newgrowth how do these ladies look and wat can i expect im in week 2 of flowering and wat about the clone u think ill get much? and can i jus use the res water to water the soil


hey wat about me


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## NewGrowth (Mar 30, 2009)

Gmaccin6 said:


> hey newgrowth how do these ladies look and wat can i expect im in week 2 of flowering and wat about the clone u think ill get much? and can i jus use the res water to water the soil


Sorry I've been vaping some really good weed. Your grow is awesome it reminds me of my third grow. I had a closet with 1000W a hydro tub with twelve plants and two monster bag seed plants in five gallon buckets on either side of it. I used left over res water on them too. 

Your plants look great, very healthy. I hope you have some headroom. I think you will be very happy with your harvest.



GreenGold said:


> Great thread!
> I am running FoxFarms GrowBig for veg and Sensi bloom 2 part for flowering.
> Anyways has anyone every heard of a SOG specific nute regime?


Never heard of it. I don't know what you would change.



> Seems like someone would have posted something of this nature?


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## Sgrios (Mar 30, 2009)

Ionic Hydroponic nutrients, what is your nutrient ppm? I remember seeing it earlier in the thread but could not find it again.

How much H202 per gallon are you using when you flush?

Thanks NewGrowth


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## NewGrowth (Mar 30, 2009)

Sgrios said:


> Ionic Hydroponic nutrients, what is your nutrient ppm? I remember seeing it earlier in the thread but could not find it again.
> 
> How much H202 per gallon are you using when you flush?
> 
> Thanks NewGrowth


Nutrient strength varies depending on how far along my plants are and the strain.

I use 35% 1.7ml/L H202


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## Sgrios (Mar 30, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Nutrient strength varies depending on how far along my plants are and the strain.
> 
> I use 35% 1.7ml/L H202



I'm thinking White widow (Fem.) and G-13.
Just looking for a ballpark really, can always go higher.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 30, 2009)

Sgrios said:


> I'm thinking White widow (Fem.) and G-13.
> Just looking for a ballpark really, can always go higher.


WW I run 1400 ppm at most.


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## GreenGold (Mar 31, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Sorry I've been vaping some really good weed. Your grow is awesome it reminds me of my third grow. I had a closet with 1000W a hydro tub with twelve plants and two monster bag seed plants in five gallon buckets on either side of it. I used left over res water on them too.
> 
> Your plants look great, very healthy. I hope you have some headroom. I think you will be very happy with your harvest.
> 
> ...


It would seem smaller SOG style plants would require less nute strengths and formulations that would encourage faster development since the goal is to flower and move as many plants as possible

I guess what Im saying is that it seems someone would have figured out " Hey using this at week ??? makes my plants mature a week faster"

I dont know though, u r the hydro expert


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## NewGrowth (Mar 31, 2009)

GreenGold said:


> It would seem smaller SOG style plants would require less nute strengths and formulations that would encourage faster development since the goal is to flower and move as many plants as possible
> 
> I guess what Im saying is that it seems someone would have figured out " Hey using this at week ??? makes my plants mature a week faster"
> 
> I dont know though, u r the hydro expert


Yeah but growth and development are effected by to many factors, nutrient strength is only one part. So each grow may have slightly different requirements.

For example a room with four flood trays 30 plants per tray under 2000W will have different nutrient requirements than 2000W in aeroponic PVC set-up.

Just use this and you will find the "sweet spot" you are looking for 

Here are some general rules:
1.Water level drops PPM goes up: Drop your nutrient strength in relationship to the PPM rise. 
2. Water level drops PPM stays the same: You may be able to fine tune you nutrient strength, if growth is vigorous leave it alone.
3. Water level drops PPM drops: Raise you nutrient strength in relationship too PPM drop.
Like I said these are only general rules always monitor your plants growth and look for tell tale signs of nutrient burn like deep green fan leaves and yellow leaf tips. Nutrient deficient plants will usually yellow from the bottom up. Keep a journal,this will help you fine tune, waste less nutrients and improve your grow next time around.


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## hendry (Mar 31, 2009)

i have black spots in the middle of my bottom leaves any idea what that could be?


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## NewGrowth (Mar 31, 2009)

hendry said:


> i have black spots in the middle of my bottom leaves any idea what that could be?


Black spot possibly it is a mold. Have any pictures? You can treat it by removing the affected leaves, lowering your humidity, and spraying with a fungicide or even milk works.


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## hendry (Mar 31, 2009)

my humidity is real low usually right around 25% I was thinking it is some kind of defincency


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## NewGrowth (Mar 31, 2009)

hendry said:


> my humidity is real low usually right around 25% I was thinking it is some kind of defincency


I would have to see some pictures


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## hendry (Mar 31, 2009)

ill try to get some thanks


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## motif (Mar 31, 2009)

got any links to some DIY simple ass clone bubblers? like DWC, stick clones in water style, no medium


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## Hash Lover (Mar 31, 2009)

Great thread NewGrowth, +rep. I just saw your post on ppm levels and the up and down rise. I'm new to hydro and had been thinking about how that could be read. If it would be telling me about how it likes the nute levels. And how to adjust the ppm levels to try to hit the sweet spot. But I'm guessing that spot will change through the course of the plants life and will have to be adjusted along the way. Great job on this thread.


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## motif (Mar 31, 2009)

motif said:


> got any links to some DIY simple ass clone bubblers? like DWC, stick clones in water style, no medium


what kinda nutes do oyu use in the water too??


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## NewGrowth (Mar 31, 2009)

motif said:


> got any links to some DIY simple ass clone bubblers? like DWC, stick clones in water style, no medium


Here is a great site its the old OG FAQ and there are a couple cloners in the cloning section. 


motif said:


> what kinda nutes do oyu use in the water too??


http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/GrowFAQ Basic Topics.htm

I use Ionic nutes.


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## Leilani Garden (Mar 31, 2009)

Popping in to say hello. 

That's all.


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## NewGrowth (Apr 1, 2009)

Leilani Garden said:


> Popping in to say hello.
> 
> That's all.


Hey LG here


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## hendry (Apr 2, 2009)

Any suggestions where they would sell a ppm meter besides the internet. I don't like to order stuff over the net.


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## erickw1822 (Apr 2, 2009)

I have 5 plants that are flowering now and on day 45... how long should you keep them on 12/12 ?? I bought a pack 10 random feminized seeds so im not sure what the strain is.. they are on an ebb and flow w/ a 250hps light... I just switched the water to nute free to flush the plant... should i add nutes for another week or so... I need a little help... thanks...


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## NewGrowth (Apr 2, 2009)

hendry said:


> Any suggestions where they would sell a ppm meter besides the internet. I don't like to order stuff over the net.


Hydro shop is really the only other place I could think of.



erickw1822 said:


> I have 5 plants that are flowering now and on day 45... how long should you keep them on 12/12 ?? I bought a pack 10 random feminized seeds so im not sure what the strain is.. they are on an ebb and flow w/ a 250hps light... I just switched the water to nute free to flush the plant... should i add nutes for another week or so... I need a little help... thanks...


Now they stay on 12/12 until flowering is done and you harvest 

Hard to tell when you should do your flush would have to see pictures and see how ripe your buds are.


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## doniawon (Apr 2, 2009)

hendry said:


> Any suggestions where they would sell a ppm meter besides the internet. I don't like to order stuff over the net.


www.zerowater.com water filter sold in america at HOME DEPOT... comes free with the purchase of their product.. cost is 59.99 but you get a pretty bad ass filter and water dispenser with it .. read about it


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## jonjonblazezany808 (Apr 2, 2009)

O.k. I finally took some pic's of the space i want to use its small and was wondering what would be the best for me to use and if its even possible in such a lil space The measurements are as follows 

Depth: 23 1/4"
Length: 51 3/4"
Height: 23 1/2"

and here's some pics 










Any and all help wanted from lighting to dro set up or pots just let me know ill make it how you guys tell me but most of all i want New Grow help thanks ery body lol


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## thefeast (Apr 2, 2009)

Newgrowth,

what size water pump do i need? im pumping water into a manifold that is kind of a grid thats about 6' long and would be three sections wide(as in sort of a honeycomb grid) of the 1/2" pvc...hope im explaining it well enough...it will aslo have to pump it up lets say 3ish feet..from a 5gal bucket or similar tub.


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## NewGrowth (Apr 2, 2009)

doniawon said:


> www.zerowater.com water filter sold in america at HOME DEPOT... comes free with the purchase of their product.. cost is 59.99 but you get a pretty bad ass filter and water dispenser with it .. read about it



Nice dude. Good looks



jonjonblazezany808 said:


> O.k. I finally took some pic's of the space i want to use its small and was wondering what would be the best for me to use and if its even possible in such a lil space The measurements are as follows
> 
> Depth: 23 1/4"
> Length: 51 3/4"
> ...


I would use flouro's in such a small space it can be very difficult to control heat. T5's would probably be good you could put a couple on the back wall as well.

If you want to do hydro a DWC set-up would probably be best for that small space. Simple to build as well. Check out Wolfmanzen's perpetual locker he did a lot with a an even smaller space.



thefeast said:


> Newgrowth,
> 
> what size water pump do i need? im pumping water into a manifold that is kind of a grid thats about 6' long and would be three sections wide(as in sort of a honeycomb grid) of the 1/2" pvc...hope im explaining it well enough...it will aslo have to pump it up lets say 3ish feet..from a 5gal bucket or similar tub.


When you buy a pump they should tell you the Max head pressure rating. This will be the maximum height that the pump can effectively work. For what you are talking about you would be safest going with a pump with at least a 6ft head rating.

Also when you check the Max head pressure take into account pipe diameter. Some pumps will list had rating for 1\8th " others 1\4" some will list for 1\2".


----------



## thefeast (Apr 2, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> When you buy a pump they should tell you the Max head pressure rating. This will be the maximum height that the pump can effectively work. For what you are talking about you would be safest going with a pump with at least a 6ft head rating.
> 
> Also when you check the Max head pressure take into account pipe diameter. Some pumps will list had rating for 1\8th " others 1\4" some will list for 1\2".


 
Thanks alot....also wondering how many plants youd put in a 73.5"x25.25"


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## NewGrowth (Apr 2, 2009)

thefeast said:


> Thanks alot....also wondering how many plants youd put in a 73.5"x25.25"


One plant per square foot in SOG, sometimes more with good lighting


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## spagettiheady420 (Apr 3, 2009)

I have a question, Im using AN 3-part grow, micro, and bloom. I have a 70 gallon res and a 4x4 flood table that I flood 3 x's when lights on for a period of 12 mins. How much grow, micro and bloom exactly should I be using? Or what ration should I use them?


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## firegrower (Apr 3, 2009)

Hey Guys....thanks ahead of time for all the info!!! I'm a first time grower, starting dwc system in 3 gallon buckets...all from seeds and under 1 600W hps after they sprout. I'm using Technaflora Plant Products Recipe for Success....supposed to be everything I need for each stage of growth for my babies. First, have you heard of or used this product, have any recommendations about it? Second, i followed the directions EXACTLY but I still want to make sure my solution is safe for the seedlings. What should the optimum pH level be? I just checked mine and it was 7.2. Also, if I'm using this supposedly "dummy proof" kit for nutes, and following the directions exactly, do I still need to check my ppm?? I don't have any kind of a meter for that....what would you recommend? (I'm using a simple test tube aquarium kit for my pH test).
Thanks so much for any help!


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## firegrower (Apr 3, 2009)

Holy shit! I just checked on my seedlings. Last night they were all healthy and about 2-3" high....this morning they are drooping and falling over 1 by 1.....seems like they are dying....help please!! (They've been under 24 hour light for the first few days....just switched to 18/6....last night was first time they saw darkness.....)
Please help!!!


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## NewGrowth (Apr 3, 2009)

spagettiheady420 said:


> I have a question, Im using AN 3-part grow, micro, and bloom. I have a 70 gallon res and a 4x4 flood table that I flood 3 x's when lights on for a period of 12 mins. How much grow, micro and bloom exactly should I be using? Or what ration should I use them?


I do not use AN, do you not have a ppm meter?

Try 1/4 recommended amounts and then fine tune using your PPM meter.

Here is an easy way to figure out your plants nutrient requirements:
Here are some general rules:
1.Water level drops PPM goes up: Drop your nutrient strength in relationship to the PPM rise. 
2. Water level drops PPM stays the same: You may be able to fine tune you nutrient strength, if growth is vigorous leave it alone.
3. Water level drops PPM drops: Raise you nutrient strength in relationship too PPM drop.
Like I said these are only general rules always monitor your plants growth and look for tell tale signs of nutrient burn like deep green fan leaves and yellow leaf tips. Nutrient deficient plants will usually yellow from the bottom up. Keep a journal,this will help you fine tune, waste less nutrients and improve your grow next time around.
__________________


firegrower said:


> Hey Guys....thanks ahead of time for all the info!!! I'm a first time grower, starting dwc system in 3 gallon buckets...all from seeds and under 1 600W hps after they sprout. I'm using Technaflora Plant Products Recipe for Success....supposed to be everything I need for each stage of growth for my babies. First, have you heard of or used this product, have any recommendations about it?


Never used this



> Second, i followed the directions EXACTLY but I still want to make sure my solution is safe for the seedlings. What should the optimum pH level be?


5.8 is optimal, some drift between changes is good to allow nutrient availbility across the spectrum. Fast fluctuations in PH indicate a problem.



> I just checked mine and it was 7.2. Also, if I'm using this supposedly "dummy proof" kit for nutes, and following the directions exactly, do I still need to check my ppm??


Ph is way to high for hydro.
I would highly recommend checking your PPM nothing is dummy proof . . . . take that advice from a dummy



> I don't have any kind of a meter for that....what would you recommend? (I'm using a simple test tube aquarium kit for my pH test).


Don't have a PPM meter? Aquarium kit will work fine to test your Ph



> Thanks so much for any help!


Always happy to help a fellow grower



firegrower said:


> Holy shit! I just checked on my seedlings. Last night they were all healthy and about 2-3" high....this morning they are drooping and falling over 1 by 1.....seems like they are dying....help please!! (They've been under 24 hour light for the first few days....just switched to 18/6....last night was first time they saw darkness.....)
> Please help!!!


Possibly damping off it is a fungus that attacks you seedlings and will kill 99% of them. Treat them quickly with a product called NoDamp, you should be able to get some a Wal-Mart. Allow the medium to dry out a bit too. If you treat now you may be able to save the remaining seedlings. Good luck


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## firegrower (Apr 3, 2009)

Thanks for the help! Seems like 50% of my seedlings are dying. I'm thinking that maybe the rockwool simply dried out before the roots could get down far enough to soak up the nutrient solution. I moved the hydroton away form the top of the rockwool and it seemed too dry...maybe I don't have enough bubbles cuz it doesnt' seem like it's soaking up into the hydroton very far. For now, I simply added some water to the rockwool cubes and recovered them with hydroton. Keeping my fingers crossed!! (and if it gets worse or spreads, I'll have to go try the NoDamp) Also, I'm in the process of adjusting the pH to a safer level.
I'm going to have to pick up a ppm meter.....what should I try to keep the ppm at?
Also, you say that some drift in pH level is healthy.....what range should I try to keep it in? 
Thanks so much....any help is greatly appreciated!


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## NewGrowth (Apr 3, 2009)

firegrower said:


> Thanks for the help! Seems like 50% of my seedlings are dying. I'm thinking that maybe the rockwool simply dried out before the roots could get down far enough to soak up the nutrient solution. I moved the hydroton away form the top of the rockwool and it seemed too dry...maybe I don't have enough bubbles cuz it doesnt' seem like it's soaking up into the hydroton very far. For now, I simply added some water to the rockwool cubes and recovered them with hydroton. Keeping my fingers crossed!! (and if it gets worse or spreads, I'll have to go try the NoDamp) Also, I'm in the process of adjusting the pH to a safer level.
> I'm going to have to pick up a ppm meter.....what should I try to keep the ppm at?
> Also, you say that some drift in pH level is healthy.....what range should I try to keep it in?
> Thanks so much....any help is greatly appreciated!


Glad to hear you figured it out.

Seedlings should not need any nutrients, start with a mild nutrient solution after the first set of true leaves form.

Ph drift should be between 5.8-6.8

NoDamp is a good thing to use when germinating all seeds as a preventive measure. Seeds can get expensive and loosing them due to damping off really sucks.


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## firegrower (Apr 3, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Glad to hear you figured it out.
> 
> Seedlings should not need any nutrients, start with a mild nutrient solution after the first set of true leaves form.
> 
> ...


 
Well...still not sure if it's figured out or not....little gals still havent' started to perk back up yet. It does suck cuz at least 2 of them are good expensive seeds that germinated and sprouted quickly and nicely. I'm trying to bring the pH down (using pH down that I've used for my aquarium before)...but it seems to really want to stay high. Do you think I should just change the solution and make it 1/4 strength? The solution is only 2/3 days old (but full strength) and the seedlings were first germinated then planted in rockwool until they sprouted and then put in the buckets 2 and 3 days ago once they had sprouted out of the rockwool. They all had one set of leaves after the little round ones. I'd like to post a pic...but I'm nervous to...


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## NewGrowth (Apr 3, 2009)

firegrower said:


> Well...still not sure if it's figured out or not....little gals still havent' started to perk back up yet. It does suck cuz at least 2 of them are good expensive seeds that germinated and sprouted quickly and nicely. I'm trying to bring the pH down (using pH down that I've used for my aquarium before)...but it seems to really want to stay high. Do you think I should just change the solution and make it 1/4 strength? The solution is only 2/3 days old (but full strength) and the seedlings were first germinated then planted in rockwool until they sprouted and then put in the buckets 2 and 3 days ago once they had sprouted out of the rockwool. They all had one set of leaves after the little round ones. I'd like to post a pic...but I'm nervous to...


Just run plain Ph adjusted water for seedlings not nutrients.


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## thefeast (Apr 3, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> One plant per square foot in SOG, sometimes more with good lighting


 I now have just aquired a barrowed 400w...so pumped!

what about if i dont do SOG?

in an aero system with SOG all i do is put a "netting" about a foot/foot and a half up? That the only diff from a regular aero grow?


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## doniawon (Apr 4, 2009)

got me a deee lema... my 8" can fan is too loud.. how should i insulate to keep the noise down... i was thinkin boxing it in and filling the space with great stufff... or stryofoam... any advice apprec.. heres the fan and the set up


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## GreenGold (Apr 4, 2009)

thefeast said:


> I now have just aquired a barrowed 400w...so pumped!
> 
> what about if i dont do SOG?
> 
> in an aero system with SOG all i do is put a "netting" about a foot/foot and a half up? That the only diff from a regular aero grow?


SOG means sea of green. Lots of plants with little veg time, fast turnover of high quality "cola buds"

SCROG involves netting not SOG


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## GreenGold (Apr 4, 2009)

doniawon said:


> got me a deee lema... my 8" can fan is too loud.. how should i insulate to keep the noise down... i was thinkin boxing it in and filling the space with great stufff... or stryofoam... any advice apprec.. heres the fan and the set up


Thats a nice room 3 600 watters??
I imagine the buckets are you own DIY ebb n flow?
You dont need an insulated blower, just buy a speed controller. Run it about 3/4 speed and notice a huge noise reduction


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## doniawon (Apr 4, 2009)

that came to mind at work today.. + rep.. im a rere.. 3 1000's


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## NewGrowth (Apr 4, 2009)

doniawon said:


> got me a deee lema... my 8" can fan is too loud.. how should i insulate to keep the noise down... i was thinkin boxing it in and filling the space with great stufff... or stryofoam... any advice apprec.. heres the fan and the set up





GreenGold said:


> SOG means sea of green. Lots of plants with little veg time, fast turnover of high quality "cola buds"
> 
> SCROG involves netting not SOG





GreenGold said:


> Thats a nice room 3 600 watters??
> I imagine the buckets are you own DIY ebb n flow?
> You dont need an insulated blower, just buy a speed controller. Run it about 3/4 speed and notice a huge noise reduction





doniawon said:


> that came to mind at work today.. + rep.. im a rere.. 3 1000's




Thanks for picking that one up bro 

Looks great doniawon, you blacking out the window more?

Some rooms I have nailed up that foam board over the dry wall too, helps insulate the room to control heat in the summer. Then just panda film over the foam.


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## doniawon (Apr 4, 2009)

big yes on blacking out the window ... i used strofoam insultion and firestone pond liner rubber stapled to the wall.. also added 20 more buckets .. suckers are takin off.. been to busy for new pic lately but im way due... foam board sounds like a good idea for future since ill be adding co2 with in a week... also i could not find the variable speed controler with a female receptacle at hd or lowes.. way bummed.. i hate them hydro shop visits


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## NewGrowth (Apr 4, 2009)

doniawon said:


> big yes on blacking out the window ... i used strofoam insultion and firestone pond liner rubber stapled to the wall.. also added 20 more buckets .. suckers are takin off.. been to busy for new pic lately but im way due... foam board sounds like a good idea for future since ill be adding co2 with in a week... also i could not find the variable speed controler with a female receptacle at hd or lowes.. way bummed.. i hate them hydro shop visits


Just re-wire it with a female plug, I did it to an HTG light. Not hard


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## orzz (Apr 5, 2009)

Thanks for starting this informative post.
It has taken days of reading to get here.

THANKS for all your insights.

I am starting my first indoor ebb & flow.

8 x 4 x 7 sunhut
2 4x4 trays
2 600 watt HDS
2 yield master II's
6in rw cubes
2 - 6 ln fans
75 gal res


2 res pumps w/ filter bags
1 air pump
2 airstones
pH meter, EC meter
using Botanicare 2 part CNS 17 grow & bloom

This will be the flowering chamber. It is set up and is running.
It has in it ....


8 - F13
4 - Sour Disel
4 - Purple Kush
4 - Purple Erckle
I am looking forward to getting enough cuttings to get the river of green going. I will be cloning with a Botanicare 25. I still have a 4 x 4 sunhut veg room to st up with 2 T5's with 4 bulbs each. But that is still in the future.

By reading the post on RIU I have gotten over most of my problems. Such as ....


Lights too close
pH off - too high
temps to high
and others
Here are a few pics.
peace and blessings.


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## doniawon (Apr 6, 2009)

orzz said:


> Thanks for starting this informative post.
> It has taken days of reading to get here.
> 
> THANKS for all your insights.
> ...


 
River of Green?? whats that?? .... your little girls looks very good and clean .. nice set up + rep ..what strain?/////////////// also thanks again NG.. i looked into that.. do i just cut the grounded cord on the can fan then wire a variable speed control ceiling fan dial in to the middle of the cord and then just plug it in the wall?? dont know if you pickin up what im puttin down but ???? can i see a pic of yours??


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## NewGrowth (Apr 6, 2009)

orzz said:


> Thanks for starting this informative post.
> It has taken days of reading to get here.
> 
> THANKS for all your insights.
> ...


I love how you set up the res outside the ten, great set-up man glad I could help!

Your plants look great and you set-up is well done, lets celebrate



doniawon said:


> River of Green?? whats that?? .... your little girls looks very good and clean .. nice set up + rep ..what strain?/////////////// also thanks again NG.. i looked into that.. do i just cut the grounded cord on the can fan then wire a variable speed control ceiling fan dial in to the middle of the cord and then just plug it in the wall?? dont know if you pickin up what im puttin down but ???? can i see a pic of yours??


I see what you mean, I took a pic of mine but this is the fan controller I use.
http://www.hydroempire.com/store/product_info.php/cPath/90_92/products_id/326

It's called dial a temp.


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## toker 10 (Apr 6, 2009)

heres one for you new growth,
ive read to not water durring or right before dark time does that mean i should turn my air stones off at night ?
ive also read to keep it bubblin 24/7


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## ojjuu77 (Apr 6, 2009)

Hey Hoping I can get some help,

New grower here, I have about 15 plants that I started from seeds about 8 days ago in a DWC tupperware inside my custom built cabinet. I have the water about an inch below my net pots with 2 bubble stones. I also have a separate pump with lines directly into every net pot which runs on a circuit timer 1min on 4off. 
My plants had a little overwater damage in the beginning when I had them in my clone box. Now I switched them into my box and they aren't doing very well. Some have totally burnt out and died before I had the watering timing down. Now the healthy ones are discoloring and most of them don't have enough strength to stand on their own. I had them on 24hours but now I switched them to 18/6 because it was getting very dried out. I have the temp pretty steady around 80ish and the humidity around 30%
PPM is at 200 right now and water temps are around 80. PH is in between 5.5-6

I cant seem to keep these things healthy. Any ideas?


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## NewGrowth (Apr 6, 2009)

toker 10 said:


> heres one for you new growth,
> ive read to not water durring or right before dark time does that mean i should turn my air stones off at night ?
> ive also read to keep it bubblin 24/7


No watering at night rule applies only to passive systems like flood or drip set ups.

Active systems like DWC require constant aeration of the nutrient solution in order for root zone to have sufficient dissolved oxygen. There is no such thing as too much water to a plant just too little oxygen. A plant draws in oxygen through its roots.

In short your air-stones should never be turned off.



ojjuu77 said:


> Hey Hoping I can get some help,
> 
> New grower here, I have about 15 plants that I started from seeds about 8 days ago in a DWC tupperware inside my custom built cabinet. I have the water about an inch below my net pots with 2 bubble stones. I also have a separate pump with lines directly into every net pot which runs on a circuit timer 1min on 4off.
> My plants had a little overwater damage in the beginning when I had them in my clone box. Now I switched them into my box and they aren't doing very well. Some have totally burnt out and died before I had the watering timing down. Now the healthy ones are discoloring and most of them don't have enough strength to stand on their own. I had them on 24hours but now I switched them to 18/6 because it was getting very dried out. I have the temp pretty steady around 80ish and the humidity around 30%
> ...


What kind of lighting are you using? They look as if the were looking for light but never received the right type.

High reservoir temps can cause a reduction of dissolved O2 in your nutrient solution and cause root zone problems as well as pathogen build up. Dump the pump! You don't need it DWC works just fine without drip lines.

Also did you Ph adjust the rockwool?


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## orzz (Apr 6, 2009)

doniawon said:


> River of Green?? whats that??


ROG is a SOG that never stops. The river just keeps on running



doniawon said:


> .... your little girls looks very good and clean .. nice set up + rep ..what strain?




8 - F13
4 - Sour Disel
4 - Purple Kush
4 - Purple Erckle
OOPS! PE is now 3 dropped a bungiee cord on one and that one is now a clone again under CFLs 

peace and blessings


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## ojjuu77 (Apr 6, 2009)

I am running a 600 Watt HPS light. I was mistaken I dont really know if it technically is DWC or bubbleponics to be honest. The water sits about an inch underneath the netpots and I have 2 airstones in there. I didnt think that was enough water so I added a pump with individual lines to each net pots. Should I still lose the pump?> What do you think. I already lost about 3 or 4 that are definitely not coming back but I would really like to save as many others as I can. 
I did PH adjust the rockwool before i put the seeds in


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## livesoul (Apr 7, 2009)

Hello NewGrowth,

Hoping you got a second to maybe make a suggestion. I'm growing Sativa breed plants (Power Plant, Power Skunk, & Durbon Poison). I'm wondering if there is anything i can do to reduce the amount they are stretching when i'm flowering.

My setup is: Perpetual SOG

1000 watt HPS light
4x4 ebb and flow tray
1400ppm Organic Floranova Bloom
Bloom Booster from beginning of flower to harvest.
CO2 and temperature controller (hangs around 80 degrees)
Humidity usually around 50%
hydrotron grow medium
Clones once rooted go directly into flower after being under 24lights (perpetual SOG, two week cycles). Mothers also are always under 24hour 400watt MH. 

These ladies grow to over 4 feet tall, passing my light which hangs 48 inches from the tray. Thanks. Peace and blessings.


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## pinktakojuicer (Apr 7, 2009)

whats up .Ive been rackn my brain for days now trying to figer out this nute formula.Ive been up all night and I cant find it anywhere.I have GH 3part flora sys.I know your not realy familiar with these nutes but basically you have GROW(2-1-6)BLOOM(0-5-4)MICRO(5-0-1).Ive seen people post optimum N-P-K ratios of 20-5-5 and 10-7-8 I dont know wich is right or better or whatever but nomater how you look at it impossible to get those #s any way you mix it.GH recommends a 1-1-1 mix(G,B,M)and I also saw someone posted that too but that "1-1-1" mix comes out to be 7-6-11.doesnt look to me like good veg #s to me.GH has a "FLORA CALCULATOR" on their site but the close as i could come up with is 1 part GROW-3parts BLOOM to 5parts MICRO=an estimated 16-5-13 or 2parts BLOOM to 3parts MICRO(cut out the GROW)=an est 17-5-12.(the reason I say estimate is when u ad these things the #s get pretty high and loose .1 to maybe 2 dumbin the #s down) Both numbers are almost the same, toltal diff mix and still not 20-5-5 or 10-7-8.Is the mix close enuff(17-5-12)?
does it really make a noticable diff. or am I just being too anal?

(to tell you the truth id prob just buy a diff nute setup but when I bought my aeroflow 36 I bought nutes for it(the guy at the store recomended it)and I didnt know it came with some so now Ive got over a gal of each and this sh!t aint cheap)


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## NewGrowth (Apr 7, 2009)

ojjuu77 said:


> I am running a 600 Watt HPS light. I was mistaken I dont really know if it technically is DWC or bubbleponics to be honest. The water sits about an inch underneath the netpots and I have 2 airstones in there. I didnt think that was enough water so I added a pump with individual lines to each net pots. Should I still lose the pump?> What do you think. I already lost about 3 or 4 that are definitely not coming back but I would really like to save as many others as I can.
> I did PH adjust the rockwool before i put the seeds in


"Bubbleponics" is a marketing term used for DWC systems sold on the internet. The added water pump is just unnecessary.

As far as saving your plants, probably not worth it at this point just start over. Even if you were to save them their growth would be severely stunted. 



livesoul said:


> Hello NewGrowth,
> 
> Hoping you got a second to maybe make a suggestion. I'm growing Sativa breed plants (Power Plant, Power Skunk, & Durbon Poison). I'm wondering if there is anything i can do to reduce the amount they are stretching when i'm flowering.
> 
> ...


They do sell products that reduce internode space. A popular one is bushmaster. I have never used them myself, but some people complain of burning when using the recommended dosage. If you try it I would start with a very dilute solution.

Other than that you could try some LST or a screen.



pinktakojuicer said:


> whats up .Ive been rackn my brain for days now trying to figer out this nute formula.Ive been up all night and I cant find it anywhere.I have GH 3part flora sys.I know your not realy familiar with these nutes but basically you have GROW(2-1-6)BLOOM(0-5-4)MICRO(5-0-1).Ive seen people post optimum N-P-K ratios of 20-5-5 and 10-7-8 I dont know wich is right or better or whatever but nomater how you look at it impossible to get those #s any way you mix it.GH recommends a 1-1-1 mix(G,B,M)and I also saw someone posted that too but that "1-1-1" mix comes out to be 7-6-11.doesnt look to me like good veg #s to me.GH has a "FLORA CALCULATOR" on their site but the close as i could come up with is 1 part GROW-3parts BLOOM to 5parts MICRO=an estimated 16-5-13 or 2parts BLOOM to 3parts MICRO(cut out the GROW)=an est 17-5-12.(the reason I say estimate is when u ad these things the #s get pretty high and loose .1 to maybe 2 dumbin the #s down) Both numbers are almost the same, toltal diff mix and still not 20-5-5 or 10-7-8.Is the mix close enuff(17-5-12)?
> does it really make a noticable diff. or am I just being too anal?
> 
> (to tell you the truth id prob just buy a diff nute setup but when I bought my aeroflow 36 I bought nutes for it(the guy at the store recomended it)and I didnt know it came with some so now Ive got over a gal of each and this sh!t aint cheap)


I have used the GH three part mix. I just followed the manufacturer recommended feeding schedule for veg and flower but reduced it slightly and monitored nutrient usage with my PPM pen.

No need to overcomplicated nutrients, hydroponics should be about simplifying IMO. Each, strain, plant, set-up, ect will have its own nutrient requirements.
Once again:
Here is an easy way to figure out your plants nutrient requirements:
1.Water level drops PPM goes up: Drop your nutrient strength in relationship to the PPM rise. 
2. Water level drops PPM stays the same: You may be able to fine tune you nutrient strength, if growth is vigorous leave it alone.
3. Water level drops PPM drops: Raise you nutrient strength in relationship too PPM drop.
Like I said these are only general rules always monitor your plants growth and look for tell tale signs of nutrient burn like deep green fan leaves and yellow leaf tips. Nutrient deficient plants will usually yellow from the bottom up. Keep a journal,this will help you fine tune, waste less nutrients and improve your grow next time around.


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## pinktakojuicer (Apr 7, 2009)

If I use the GH aggressive growth feed program it calls for 3parts grow 2parts micro and 1part bloom.If I follow this mix it will be pushing more K than N,correct me if Im wrong but when your in veg you should be pushing more N and less P-K and the other way around when flowering.I have the whole PPM thing down its just the mix between the three bottles.
Im just lookin at it like no one would use flowering nutes for vegging,why would I mix the nutes to more of a flowering nute ratio for veg growth.As I under stand it GH states they made it a three part mix becauls diff plants call for diff nute needs and you need to modify the mix ratios for your own needs.The feed programs sate "Theses programs are starting piontsfor developing your own program."


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## racer3456 (Apr 7, 2009)

pinktakojuicer said:


> If I use the GH aggressive growth feed program it calls for 3parts grow 2parts micro and 1part bloom.If I follow this mix it will be pushing more K than N,correct me if Im wrong but when your in veg you should be pushing more N and less P-K and the other way around when flowering.I have the whole PPM thing down its just the mix between the three bottles.
> Im just lookin at it like no one would use flowering nutes for vegging,why would I mix the nutes to more of a flowering nute ratio for veg growth.As I under stand it GH states they made it a three part mix becauls diff plants call for diff nute needs and you need to modify the mix ratios for your own needs.The feed programs sate "Theses programs are starting piontsfor developing your own program."


That's why i like 1 or 2 part series. Go with Ionic, GH Flora Nova, or Dutch Masters. Anything else your wasting time or money.


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## orzz (Apr 8, 2009)

racer3456 said:


> That's why i like 1 or 2 part series. Go with Ionic, GH Flora Nova, or Dutch Masters. Anything else your wasting time or money.


What do you think about Botanicare CNS?


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## NewGrowth (Apr 8, 2009)

pinktakojuicer said:


> If I use the GH aggressive growth feed program it calls for 3parts grow 2parts micro and 1part bloom.If I follow this mix it will be pushing more K than N,correct me if Im wrong but when your in veg you should be pushing more N and less P-K and the other way around when flowering.I have the whole PPM thing down its just the mix between the three bottles.
> Im just lookin at it like no one would use flowering nutes for vegging,why would I mix the nutes to more of a flowering nute ratio for veg growth.As I under stand it GH states they made it a three part mix becauls diff plants call for diff nute needs and you need to modify the mix ratios for your own needs.The feed programs sate "Theses programs are starting piontsfor developing your own program."


They are three part because certain chemicals fall out of solution when mixed in high concentrations. 

The "aggressive growth" formula is just a guideline. Micro should contain mostly nitrogen. I don't think GH is calling for more P-K during vegetative growth.

Once again the mix ratios are just a guideline but don't get hung up on them.


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## Chumlie (Apr 8, 2009)

do you know anything about bluelab truncheon?
what about using a regular gardencenter seed starter solution for soaking RW cubes in?
Im about put the cubes in my system and since I've soaked them in some starter solution I was going to use just plain water for a week then switch to 1/4 strength of GH nutes.
How accurate do think cabbage pH testers are? (I know its not as great as a meter, but my don't work)


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## flipsidesw (Apr 8, 2009)

Sup Newgrowth!!

How's is been man? Its been pretty crazy around my way. Ive been dealing with the man. They tried to catch me slippin but i was smart enough to get out while i could. gonna be a while before i get some more ladies. Some time this year i think my state might adopt the med. mj act. Im look forward to that. Who know how long thats gonna take.

The reason i stopped by is im getting this new job and everything is going great. But they want me to take a piss test. I only have about 7 days to prepare. Any tried and true methods for passing a drug test? Any help would be greatly apprectiated.

I plan to do alot of cardio workouts and sauna time. Maybe some niacin. My buddy told me that i should drink a gallon of distilled water every day until the test. Anythoughts? He said it would help strip my body clean. kiss-assHelp!!!


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## Chumlie (Apr 8, 2009)

little heavy like me *flipsidesw *go to GNC and look for white bottles with a red top and a purple top. I can't rember the name of them something like formula 49. They're in a lock glass container in the store cost 50 or 60 bucks but worth it. See acording to what I've been told you can't get it out of your system completely, this just gives a 2 hour window. I used it to get my liscence back a year ago. You have to follow direction completely

Hey don't get the purple one are you have it comeing out of both ends, and maybe pee out all you can for the first 2 hours then maybe you want have to pee so bad at the show.


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## NewGrowth (Apr 8, 2009)

Chumlie said:


> do you know anything about bluelab truncheon?
> what about using a regular gardencenter seed starter solution for soaking RW cubes in?


Bluelab truncheon is hands down the best ppm meter you can buy. It never needs to be calibrated, is completely waterproof, and I have dropped mine many, many times. Still works like a charm.

I'm not sure what you mean by regular garden center solution. Rockwool needs to be Ph adjusted that is the purpose of the soak. I've been using rapid rooters lately.



> Im about put the cubes in my system and since I've soaked them in some starter solution I was going to use just plain water for a week then switch to 1/4 strength of GH nutes.


Sounds good, just make sure you soak was Ph adjusted.



> How accurate do think cabbage pH testers are? (I know its not as great as a meter, but my don't work)


Just as accurate as test strips or indicator solution.



flipsidesw said:


> Sup Newgrowth!!
> 
> How's is been man? Its been pretty crazy around my way. Ive been dealing with the man. They tried to catch me slippin but i was smart enough to get out while i could. gonna be a while before i get some more ladies. Some time this year i think my state might adopt the med. mj act. Im look forward to that. Who know how long thats gonna take.
> 
> ...


That is lame bro, good to hear from you. The way to pass 100% of the time and the way I use to pass a test is simple.

I buy the fake pee, re-hydrate it, strap it to my thigh act as if I did not just smoke a bowl in my car

The detox drinks are a shot in the dark lots of water works just as well.

The test looks for THC metabolites which are stored in "fat" cells. It may be good to do heavy exercise a week or so before the test but if your test is soon exercise could just release more metabolite into your system.

If you must use your own urine your motto should be dilute, dilute, dilute. Drink shitloads of water and if they ask for another sample later because its too dilute GOOD! You just bought yourself another few days of detox.

Good luck man, don't be a stranger.


----------



## Chumlie (Apr 9, 2009)

What up man, just wondering what nutes you use and how they rate with trucheon readings.
I'm using GH nutes, and so I called them up the other day and asked about me using the trucheon with their nutes. They said that I should go by the EC reading then multiply my reading by 640 to get the ppm of my solution cause the ppms on the trucheon are higher than theirs.
But correct me if I'm wrong it seems to me when I do that their number is higher.
What is your EC/ppm reading on your regular house water mine is .4 EC

To change the subject I'm using ebbnFlow and I know everyone on here ask about the watering times. Right now I have set up for five times a day every four hours I think thats how Al B. fuct had his. I may have to back the time down a little cause I thing your so pose to just reach the RW then drain. 

Thanks Fella


----------



## livesoul (Apr 9, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> If you must use your own urine your motto should be dilute, dilute, dilute. Drink shitloads of water and if they ask for another sample later because its too dilute GOOD! You just bought yourself another few days of detox.
> 
> Good luck man, don't be a stranger.


 
Just a word of caution. I was on probation a couple years back and had to get tested every so often. I was explained that an overly diluted sample would result in a fail. Not sure if that would stand up in court but just figured it was worth mentioning.


----------



## NewGrowth (Apr 9, 2009)

livesoul said:


> Just a word of caution. I was on probation a couple years back and had to get tested every so often. I was explained that an overly diluted sample would result in a fail. Not sure if that would stand up in court but just figured it was worth mentioning.


Maybe in the probation system, for employment purposes they will usually just call and ask for a new sample.


----------



## hendry (Apr 10, 2009)

My hydro grow is going very slow. Its my first time with dro and at 5 weeks my tallest of 6 plants is only 4 inches. I have had some problems with ph and recently a little nute burn but even with those factors it still seems really slow to me. Do have any idea what would cause such slow growth and what i could do to fix it?


----------



## orzz (Apr 10, 2009)

hendry said:


> My hydro grow is going very slow. Its my first time with dro and at 5 weeks my tallest of 6 plants is only 4 inches. I have had some problems with ph and recently a little nute burn but even with those factors it still seems really slow to me. Do have any idea what would cause such slow growth and what i could do to fix it?


Are the plants clones or from seeds?
Also would help to give some more info


growing medium
light type
wattage
watering schedule
ppm, pH
pictures
etc


----------



## hendry (Apr 10, 2009)

Somebody borrowed my camera so sorry no pics. They are all from some bagseed. Currently the ph is about 5.8 water temp 70 Room temp 81. The medium is some coco fiber surrounded by river rock in net pots. Its an 18 gallon storage container with 3 airstones. Two 6" stones set up on the outer part and one round disc stone in the middle. I change the water every 2 weeks. I have 3 50 watt hps lights and 4 cfls all 5500k 2 are 14w and 2 are 27w. Its all setup in a cabinet which is roughly 3 sq ft. I dont know the ppm but currently i've backed off from using any nutes due to some recent nute burn. I just changed the water yesterday so i figure there are enough micronutes in the tap water for a couple of days.


----------



## orzz (Apr 10, 2009)

hendry said:


> Somebody borrowed my camera so sorry no pics. They are all from some bagseed. Currently the ph is about 5.8 water temp 70 Room temp 81. The medium is some coco fiber surrounded by river rock in net pots. Its an 18 gallon storage container with 3 airstones. Two 6" stones set up on the outer part and one round disc stone in the middle. I change the water every 2 weeks. I have 3 50 watt hps lights and 4 cfls all 5500k 2 are 14w and 2 are 27w. Its all setup in a cabinet which is roughly 3 sq ft. I dont know the ppm but currently i've backed off from using any nutes due to some recent nute burn. I just changed the water yesterday so i figure there are enough micronutes in the tap water for a couple of days.


Nice set up!
It may the water u r using. Is it tap or RO?
U may have to high a solution, ppm.


----------



## hendry (Apr 10, 2009)

It is tap water.


----------



## orzz (Apr 10, 2009)

hendry said:


> It is tap water.


That may be the problem. Do an internet search for your water districts water quality,

CHLORINE is not good and most tap water has it.
A RO system, i use the Tall Boy from Hydro-Logic.


----------



## hendry (Apr 10, 2009)

I let the water sit out in different containers for 24 hours before i transfer it so that the chorline evaporates. Ive read thats what your supposed to do.


----------



## orzz (Apr 10, 2009)

hendry said:


> I let the water sit out in different containers for 24 hours before i transfer it so that the chorline evaporates. Ive read thats what your supposed to do.


I guess with enough aeration it should work, I have heard that also. Need to find out if u have alot of ppm in ur tap water.


----------



## hendry (Apr 10, 2009)

The tds in my area is a high of 198 and low of 145. Ph high of 7.71 low of 7.59. However i dont see chorline on here could it be listed as something else.


----------



## hendry (Apr 10, 2009)

I think i was reading the wrong report. Sorry


----------



## orzz (Apr 10, 2009)

I have seen my plants bounce back in my current (1st indoor) grow.
They were burned by lightsand water pH was way too high and they are about 6 ins high and doing better now that I am NOT killing them any more.

I am not sure why ur's are having a slow go.
Maybe the plant genotype, from seed takes longer. ....

DAMN DO NOT OVER SMOKE AND SET THE TIMER FOR YOUR PUMPS like i just did.
​OMG I just overflowed my table. Not a problem but I need to vaccum and I hate wasting my nutes 

DUH .... I am a weed baron like bugs ... well not quite as unlucky


----------



## orzz (Apr 10, 2009)

My buddy has the hose. I won't be back here till later tonight, I have to go to Homedepot and get the hose. arggggggghhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## OregonMeds (Apr 10, 2009)

I admit I did not read this whole thread and apologize if this has been covered...

I want to grow huge fucking trees over 8'tall with poundage. From what I've seen so far the top two setups for that would be krusty buckets or just ebb and flow in 5 gallon containers with coco.

Which would you say is the best way to go for the biggest fattest trees. One of these, or another? I will have multiple vertical 1000w fixtures just like krusty so I'm set for lights. Ea plant will have 1000w on two sides of it minimum.


----------



## hendry (Apr 10, 2009)

dude that sucks good luck. I just figured out how to use my camera phone since i dont have my camera


----------



## hendry (Apr 10, 2009)

some more pics of my setup


----------



## orzz (Apr 10, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> I admit I did not read this whole thread and apologize if this has been covered...
> 
> I want to grow huge fucking trees over 8'tall with poundage. From what I've seen so far the top two setups for that would be krusty buckets or just ebb and flow in 5 gallon containers with coco.
> 
> Which would you say is the best way to go for the biggest fattest trees. One of these, or another? I will have multiple vertical 1000w fixtures just like krusty so I'm set for lights. Ea plant will have 1000w on two sides of it minimum.


I like the ebb and flow and to get to that height you'll need to put up netting to hold up the plants.

I got the hose and the water is sucked up. I have a digital timer and I changed from 5.5 hour between waterings to 4 hours. Set one watering to flood at 4 pm and end @4:05 AM frak it was supposed to be PM not AM they had been in flood for an hour and a half. arggghhhhh


----------



## hendry (Apr 14, 2009)

Im having a problem with my bottom leaves any idea?


----------



## livesoul (Apr 15, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> I admit I did not read this whole thread and apologize if this has been covered...
> 
> I want to grow huge fucking trees over 8'tall with poundage. From what I've seen so far the top two setups for that would be krusty buckets or just ebb and flow in 5 gallon containers with coco.
> 
> Which would you say is the best way to go for the biggest fattest trees. One of these, or another? I will have multiple vertical 1000w fixtures just like krusty so I'm set for lights. Ea plant will have 1000w on two sides of it minimum.


To make it come off with poundage your going to need to trim and veg it for at least 3 months. Create a bunch of branches. Also, recommend using bushmaster to bush it up. This will help alot if you only have HPS spectrum lights. Using ebb and flow is how i would go, but just cause i've been doing it for so long now. Good luck dude, that will dope project.


----------



## NewGrowth (Apr 15, 2009)

hendry said:


> My hydro grow is going very slow. Its my first time with dro and at 5 weeks my tallest of 6 plants is only 4 inches. I have had some problems with ph and recently a little nute burn but even with those factors it still seems really slow to me. Do have any idea what would cause such slow growth and what i could do to fix it?



What he said VVVV


orzz said:


> Are the plants clones or from seeds?
> Also would help to give some more info
> 
> 
> ...





orzz said:


> I have seen my plants bounce back in my current (1st indoor) grow.
> They were burned by lightsand water pH was way too high and they are about 6 ins high and doing better now that I am NOT killing them any more.
> 
> I am not sure why ur's are having a slow go.
> ...






OregonMeds said:


> I admit I did not read this whole thread and apologize if this has been covered...
> 
> I want to grow huge fucking trees over 8'tall with poundage. From what I've seen so far the top two setups for that would be krusty buckets or just ebb and flow in 5 gallon containers with coco.
> 
> Which would you say is the best way to go for the biggest fattest trees. One of these, or another? I will have multiple vertical 1000w fixtures just like krusty so I'm set for lights. Ea plant will have 1000w on two sides of it minimum.



To grow plants of that size indoors you just need a long veg time and a system that will provide adequate root space. Dutch bucket systems are commonly used for plants around 5ft.

Medical growers often use dutch buckets to grow fewer plants but with a greater yield. 


hendry said:


> dude that sucks good luck. I just figured out how to use my camera phone since i dont have my camera


What are those rocks you are using? Many rocks/minerals will alter the Ph of your nutrient solution. Your plants just look fried either by a Ph problem or high nutrient salt concentrations. 



hendry said:


> Im having a problem with my bottom leaves any idea?


What is your Ph
What PPM and what nutrients?
What are those rocks!?


----------



## hendry (Apr 15, 2009)

What is your Ph
What PPM and what nutrients?
What are those rocks!?
[/quote]

My ph is under 6. 
No nutes right now. 
The rocks are a combination of whats in the pictures.
The third picture is of a small plastic pot with coconut fiber that hasnt been watered. The fiber expands to the size of the pot when its watered.


----------



## orzz (Apr 15, 2009)

Hendry got any new pics?


----------



## hendry (Apr 15, 2009)

Im stepping out right now ill have them in about 4 to 5 hours best i can do sorry.


----------



## orzz (Apr 15, 2009)

hendry said:


> Im stepping out right now ill have them in about 4 to 5 hours best i can do sorry.


NP ... be safe


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## NewGrowth (Apr 15, 2009)

hendry said:


> What is your Ph
> What PPM and what nutrients?
> What are those rocks!?


My ph is under 6. 
No nutes right now. 
The rocks are a combination of whats in the pictures.
The third picture is of a small plastic pot with coconut fiber that hasnt been watered. The fiber expands to the size of the pot when its watered.[/QUOTE]

I would do away with the rocks they are probably altering your Ph. Also adding a mild nutrient solution would help. Not sure what the picture of the aquatic plant soil was for.


----------



## racer3456 (Apr 16, 2009)

Is your resevoir lightproof??? That was my problem once and it took me a while to figure out... But my plants were stunted as hell and the roots would not grow into the solution. That's how I finally figured out light was coming in (even though I spray-painted it black 3 times!)


----------



## plantman969 (Apr 16, 2009)

whats up. I am a fairly new to personal growing and have started out with a full line of botanicare nutes, plus a few additives.

Nutrients I Run - For a 250w Conversion (MH flower/HPS Bloom) 14gallon, DWC rubbermade tote w/two 15" air stones with a water rez level of 9 gallons for 3 plants. in a 2x2x6 Homebox S. 4" 170cfm carbon filer exaust, two 4" 80cfm inline fans for air intake straight from humidifier, and two 6" clip fans for interior air movement. temps 67 night - low 84-87 high day with a low - 35% humitity all times. RO or Distilled Water 

how can i improve or got any ideas on helping me with better flowering nutes or somthing you have used or have noticed benifits from.



Botanicare:

PBP Grow - From 5ml pre-soaking rockwool for seeds - end of week 2 15ml grow/bloom of flowering

PBP Bloom - week 1 of flowering 10ml grow 15ml bloom till buds start to form the only bloom - 1 1/2 week before harvest

Calmag - 2.5ml gal presoaked rockwool for seeds - harvest never going higher than 8ml

Liquid Karma - 15ml presoaking rockwool for seeds - 12ml gal veg 15ml gal bloom - harvest

Sweet - 5ml presoaking rockwool for seeds - 10-12ml for veg, 12-20ml bloom to harvest - Dont care great for seed germination and all the way through imo helps keep plant nice and compact during veg use both calmag and sweet keeping it close to 60 - 40 sweet-calmag

Silica Blast - Start adding at 2.5 ml a gal after fist set of tru leafs. Great natural ph Up No more than 5ml a gal at any given time.


Advanced Nutrients:

B52 - 1ml a gal for presoaking rockwool for seeds - 2-4ml a gal veg to transistion of 12/12 stop for 3 weeks and back to 2-4ml a gal bloom

Voodoo Juice - From start to finish/flush Great ****ing Stuff dont care whtany one says. its all in how you apply it i think. Granted i wasted a good chunk of change but i feel now every crop could benifit. I took some trial and error but imo there are a few ways one can benifit from it. at first
i went with the 30ml a gal for the full res and went half stength on nutes worked great no **** 3 hours i noticible root growth the next day double.
But 30ml a gal is way too much. i could explain this prosses of trail an error but that is for a diferent post. In the end i mix 1-2ml PER PLANT in a liquid siringe and then suck up some rez (filling the 60ml siringe) water after a day of the nutes sitting in the tote mixing - make sure pH is between 5.5 - 6.3 I then shake siringe and inject 20ml directly to the base of plant and rockwool. after this i usully add 10 - 15 ml a gallon based on total rez gallons not the number of gallons with mxed nutes so for me 90ml every rez change - for me 3 times a grow. baby-veg, veg-end of first month bloom, and bloom to flush 

Sensizym - Next purchase and will use with every rez change, when needed, and for flush

pH Up 
pH Down

Nutes I am going to purchase:
Collosal Bud Blast or Wet Betty Organic
Big Bud.


Nutrients must be mixed i a certin order so as to not lock other nutes out.
THIS IS THE BIGGEST AND BEST THING I HAVE LEARNED IN HELPING ME MAINTAIN MY LEVELS. If mixed in the right order very little pH up or down will be needed. For me after mixing I have to use a couple drops of pH up because of PBP Grow or Bloom when added lower pH significantly.

This is my mix and order for current veg and transition: Last two gallon mixes

RO Water - pH 7.1/75f/.32ec/220ppm/TDS 7 
then add
10ml Liqiud Karma- ph 5.9/75f/.46ec/320ppm/TDS 226
+
10ml Sweet - forgot to get readings
+
7ml Calmag- pH 5.91/75f/1.38ec/960ppm/TDS 713
+
2ml B52- pH 5.8/75f/1.5ec/1040ppm/TDS 753
+
2ml Silica Blast- pH 6.5/75f/1.5ec/1070ppm/TDS 771
+
15ml PBP Grow- pH 5.35/75f/2.71ec/1890ppm/TDS 1440
my gallon mixes before transition

Transition Mix: Best Mix Yet
1 Gallon RO Water - ph 7.27/76f/.16ec/120ppm/TDS 12
+
12ml Liquid Karma- pH6.38/74f/.48ec/330ppm/TDS 241
+
12ml Sweet- pH 6.02/74f/.94ec/660ppm/TDS 487
+
6ml Calmag- pH 6.04/74f/1.47ec/1020ppm/TDS 763
+
10ml PBP Grow- pH 4.99/74f/2.38ec/1660ppm/TDS 1220
+
3ml Silica Blast- pH 5.73/74f/2.41ec/1680ppm/TDS 1310
+
12ml PBP Bloom- pH 5.23/74f/3.18ec/2220ppm/TDS 1790
+
2 drops pH Up- pH 5.51/74f/3.18ec/2220ppm/TDS 1790
Final Readings.

I start my rez with low nutes and add 1/2 - full strength nutes premixed in gallons as the water level lowers to my add back and if i feel the plants are getting to manny nutes i just take out a 1/2 - 1 gal rez water and add some pH balanced RO water then go back an hour later empty a gl of rz water add some pH down and dump it back in.

this is what i am working with hope it helps i will throw some pics up soon

OH DONT USE ROOTS ORGANIC TRINITY IN YOU DWC FOAMS/BUBBLES AND THE PLANTS DONT SEEM TO LIKE IT - BUT I BET IT IS GREAT IN SOIL.

1)Tap water is also a great way yo add natural ph up to your rez.

2)In which order and how do you mix your nutes? I read that the best way to take full advantage of your feeding program was to manage your nute mixing. So you would mix your additives/macros LK Sweet Carbo Load B52 ect, then your NPK Nutes PBP grow/bloom then your benificials voodooo, taranjula, pirana, sub -b sub-m ect. In doing so you will not lock any nutes out in the mixing process. also benificals should be added after the rez and nutes have had time to mix properly. I have had great succes with this and RO water statrting at ph 7 ending in 5.3-5.9

3)Also true you should definitally use PBP Grow in the first 3 weeks of bloom or till buds start to form. To get over the phos problem i was told using B52 after buds start to form will help this problem.

4)Side Note Try Sweet in veg i think you will like it. Just use a little less calmag. i use both together - sweet because it says if used in veg it will help keep plants from becoming soft stemed and lengthy. And my plants are short stocky bushes.


Like i said i start low and add high. My res is not that high that was the total of my add back mixes my rez sets at

Currently :

Bloom Box - Sprouted 3/8 - pH 5.78/74f/2.34ec/1630ppm/TDS 1330

Veg Box w/2- 2 week old plants from seed started 4/1- pH 5.91/71f/1.51ec 1050ppm/TDS 828

next will be a list of question i am still pondering.


----------



## orzz (Apr 16, 2009)

Nicely laid out and documented


----------



## plantman969 (Apr 17, 2009)

Whats going on? So i have a few question.

I have my 2x2x6 grow space with my 250
3 plants in 9gal dwc. The plants look wonderful with no problems. (hopefully)

So my question - I have been doing a lot of reading and so forth and have noticed my plants are so much diff than most. 1st they are on day 6 of veg total of 4-7 in with more growth and root mass than most. The problem lies in the amount of space. i have 1 barneys farm nightshade in the front (indica)
small comparied to the others both Super Lemon Haze- 1 showing sativa phenos and the other more of the indica pheno.
These are the two i am concerned about. 
From the beginning they have been veged under the MH250 and now on the HPS250, yet the whole time my light is about 4-6 in above the plant. Because of this along with the multipule toppings they have become bushes. Yet they are short. I place my light really low because i have good air flow and have yet to burn the plants. i also dont have that large space between the stock and starting of growth like most do. Maybe 1" from tote to foliage. I did raise my light so it sits about 9" from the plants to help them strech. Once they reach 1.5 feet from the tote my screen will come into play SCROG
My buddy said because they area is so small once my buds fill out the screen it will be like a rainforest. Lush tops shitty undergrowth. I plan on trimming larger fan leafs throughout flowering to get more light penitration. and also installing 4 small cfls for suplamental lighting under the screen. Are my bushes going to make this really dificult? 

This is my first real grow and have had my bumps in the road - all most killed the plants in flower when i switched them to 12/12 the first time. they got nute lock out from low ph ended cutting off most of the plant and reveged for about a week and a half to get them recovered. Well in doing so they grew back and are super healthy but just really bushy. So maybe i over topped them?


I feel i have the process down pat for what works for me from seed to begining of flowering. But have never gone futher than that and dont quite know what to expect during the flowering process.

so any ideas comments that would help facilitate this learning please voice your opinions.


----------



## NewGrowth (Apr 19, 2009)

plantman969 said:


> whats up. I am a fairly new to personal growing and have started out with a full line of botanicare nutes, plus a few additives.
> 
> Nutrients I Run - For a 250w Conversion (MH flower/HPS Bloom) 14gallon, DWC rubbermade tote w/two 15" air stones with a water rez level of 9 gallons for 3 plants. in a 2x2x6 Homebox S. 4" 170cfm carbon filer exaust, two 4" 80cfm inline fans for air intake straight from humidifier, and two 6" clip fans for interior air movement. temps 67 night - low 84-87 high day with a low - 35% humitity all times. RO or Distilled Water
> 
> ...


Wow thanks man very detailed.



> 1)Tap water is also a great way yo add natural ph up to your rez.


I agree i don't use RO myself just have a good supply of Ph down.



> 2)In which order and how do you mix your nutes? I read that the best way to take full advantage of your feeding program was to manage your nute mixing. So you would mix your additives/macros LK Sweet Carbo Load B52 ect, then your NPK Nutes PBP grow/bloom then your benificials voodooo, taranjula, pirana, sub -b sub-m ect. In doing so you will not lock any nutes out in the mixing process. also benificals should be added after the rez and nutes have had time to mix properly. I have had great succes with this and RO water statrting at ph 7 ending in 5.3-5.9


I'm really old school so tons of additives are foreign to me. I sue Ionic nutrients and H2O2, sometimes hygrozyme instead. Thats it.

I mix like this:

1. Ionic Grow/Bloom
2. H2O2 or Hygrozyme
3. Adjust Ph

That's it, I don't really use that many nutrients either. Many cultivated Cannabis strains are very efficient with nutrient uptake and don't nee tons of nutrients. 



> 3)Also true you should definitally use PBP Grow in the first 3 weeks of bloom or till buds start to form. To get over the phos problem i was told using B52 after buds start to form will help this problem.


Couldn't tell you, like I said don't use all that much. Hydroponics really need not be a complicated science project. Plants need a well oxygenated rootzone, and a healthy growing environment. Tons of nutrients and additives are really cool and seem to work well for some but simplicity has worked well for me.



> 4)Side Note Try Sweet in veg i think you will like it. Just use a little less calmag. i use both together - sweet because it says if used in veg it will help keep plants from becoming soft stemed and lengthy. And my plants are short stocky bushes.


I don't even use calmag. Tap water contains enough of these micronutirents in my experience. Sometimes I run into water that needs a little mag, this becomes apparent pretty quickly and is easily corrected with a little epsom salt. 




> Like i said i start low and add high. My res is not that high that was the total of my add back mixes my rez sets at
> 
> Currently :
> 
> ...


Ok onward!!



plantman969 said:


> Whats going on? So i have a few question.
> 
> I have my 2x2x6 grow space with my 250
> 3 plants in 9gal dwc. The plants look wonderful with no problems. (hopefully)
> ...


Stop you there, don't trim fan leaves. They collect light that becomes energy to make big buds shaded or not. Trim beneath the screen however because that foliage will be shaded by the canopy and you want to concentrate growth in the screen.



> and also installing 4 small cfls for suplamental lighting under the screen. Are my bushes going to make this really dificult?


Putting lights under a screen kind of defeats the purpose of the screen and is rather counter-productive. Raise your light a bit and cut back on the nutes a bit and your bushes will stretch out a bit and be easier to screen.



> This is my first real grow and have had my bumps in the road - all most killed the plants in flower when i switched them to 12/12 the first time. they got nute lock out from low ph ended cutting off most of the plant and reveged for about a week and a half to get them recovered. Well in doing so they grew back and are super healthy but just really bushy. So maybe i over topped them?


Maybe, let them grow try not to push them in to many directions.



> I feel i have the process down pat for what works for me from seed to begining of flowering. But have never gone futher than that and dont quite know what to expect during the flowering process.
> 
> so any ideas comments that would help facilitate this learning please voice your opinions.


Sounds good, your style is different than mine but the best teacher is experience. Good luck bro keep me updated


----------



## flipsidesw (Apr 19, 2009)

Sup Newgrowth!

I cant sleep so ive been wondering on the web. I read this guys post using pbp. I had some opinions that i would like to

share. Sweet and liquid karma shouldnt be raising you ppm that much. With those doses a 50ppm raise would suprise

me. I dont believe in the "carbs" for plant fad. Maybe on an apple tree. I also believe those ppms could be reduced and

have the same effects. Liquid karma is the shit tho! Thats where your getting your resiliance. The best thing a pbp user

can do for his plants his doing the switch that botanicare recomends. After 4 wks switch pbp soil formula. (Its actually a

hydro formula) It will give you much better taste. In the future i would just use the soil formula. PBP hydro better for aeroponics.
Another thing, skip the b-52 yes its good stuff no its not worth it. Liquid karma is doing the same things at half the price.

Get ur res just a lil bit cooler. Youll save nutes and ur plant will love you for it. 65-68 is GREAT. More times than not using

alot of additives will hinder your progress. Dwc with only the basic NPK and pathogen control will produce very nice

results. Just remember your not an alchemist. Give the plants what they need and theyll return the favor. I dont believe

you should even experiment with additive until you know what the basic nutrients can do. Youll find that most growers

with good dope have very simple nutrient profiles. I wouldnt even use cal mag until the plants start showing a deficiency.

You shouldnt even need to do add backs. Just add water til its time to change. Small ress' needs changed more. Add backs 

can throw everything off. Once the res has been used for a couple days theres no telling whats in the water any more. 

Ok time for sleep now. Ill be on tomorrow peace


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## howak47 (Apr 19, 2009)

hey newgrowth can u tell me if iam using right kind of nutrients? iam using a water solubale 20-20-20-mix for veg and a 10-54-10 bloom plus for flowering heres my thread check it out tell me what u think https://www.rollitup.org/aerogardeners/170475-aerogarden.html


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## NewGrowth (Apr 19, 2009)

flipsidesw said:


> Sup Newgrowth!
> 
> I cant sleep so ive been wondering on the web. I read this guys post using pbp. I had some opinions that i would like to
> 
> ...


Very well said flip good to see you around, how id your test go?



howak47 said:


> hey newgrowth can u tell me if iam using right kind of nutrients? iam using a water solubale 20-20-20-mix for veg and a 10-54-10 bloom plus for flowering heres my thread check it out tell me what u think https://www.rollitup.org/aerogardeners/170475-aerogarden.html


Are you using the tabs? I see SICC is on your thread he uses those and did a couple aerogarden grows.


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## sophanox (Apr 19, 2009)

hey newgrowth, I was just wondering if you could give me some advice...

I'm gonna invest in a 8 plant nft system, but as this is my second grow, I'm gonna be starting from seed. Thus, I was wondering what I should do with the seeds, because when they sprout they wont have long enough roots for the NFT. Should I make a temporary dwc or something?

Also, as I'm growing from seed, I'll obviously end with some males - will I be alright just removing them as best I can, then use sensi Zym to remove the dead roots?

Thanks a lot for your help =)


----------



## plantman969 (Apr 19, 2009)

flipsidesw said:


> Sup Newgrowth!
> 
> 1)Sweet and liquid karma shouldnt be raising you ppm that much. With those doses a 50ppm raise would suprise me.
> I also believe those ppms could be reduced and have the same effects.
> ...



1) I dont understand? what ppms are you getting with those dosages. Sweet-10mL on bottle says it will give you 50ppm (MG), 75 ppm Sulfur (S), and 2ppm Iron (I) per 10ml total 127ppm. so 12ml yes should only give me a ppm shift of no more than 150ppm - My shif was 330ppm. What else have we learned with ANY NUTE PRODUCT dont trust the bottle-use 1/4 strength ect. So a swing of 330ppm not really a surprise. LK does not list a suggested ppm but at .1% (N), .1% (P), and .5% (K) along with the .01%Humic Acid, and the .01% Yucca extract there will be a shift in your ppm/tds. And again do you trust the suggested bottle dose? From my understanding with "organic" based nutes ppm reading along with ec and tds are going to be different because of the "organic matter" in the spicific nutes. This is why i have posted the info. I am trying to understand the "chemistry" of growing along with growing its self. 

2)Please explain i have been reading somthing along those lines. I have heard that for the soil its best to use during flowering and use PBP Grow for veg. Or are you saying it is better to use the PBP Soil all the way through? 

3) NO they are not the same thing: Sorry do you read your bottles? Seariously, But I do agree i got screwed with the price. I will not buy in the future, but i will get a shit ton of uses out of 1 bottle. I feed and use this very sparingly. Because Nutes are useually in a concintrate form and are stronger or can very from bottle to bottle. 
Also any AN nute can deffinitally be cut down as far as total mL used.

B-52: is 2-1-4 NPK - Fertilizer Booster
LK: .1-.1-.5 NPK - Growth Stimulant

B-52: used in first growth-veg, stop during trans period, and if you want you can continue to use during bloom if you feel your plants can benifit from them. 

LK: Used throughout your plants life because YES it is the shit.

4) Yes they may like it a bit cooler and they did when i was not using mycos. but with the use of mycos such as Voodoo Juice AN, Myco-madness Humboldt Nutes, OrganisimXL from roots organic. The benificals in these products will thrive on slightly higher temps. Which in turn allows your plant to uptake nutes better. So for my situation lower rez temps would hinder the products. So yes ou are right plants like the cooler rez temps if you are using benificals its better to go little higher as long as they dont pass 78-80 + range because then you are running a much higher risk of bad bactiria/alge.

5) I do understand what basic nutes do. I am not new to growing just new to cultivating cannibus. All my life my family has grown up with growing our own veggies and fruits. But i also understand the positive side of using benificials which are proven to help plants grow, create a larger root mass hence allwoing for a larger nutrient uptake healthyer plants larger stronger stocks. So maybe you should look into improving your nutes. and making your plants happier. Where are your photos and nute listing along with the the info on your nutes and how they effect what? That is why i posted to help more people understand exactly how and what each thing can do. Its a nice table to compare to. Granted my spelling sucks. Againg you are correct in that most growers with good dope have simple nutes sheduals look at newgrowth his is super simple and he gets results. But IMO anyone can benifit in using benificals i trully think they are along with lk are the keys to my success up to this point. But you cannot use H2O2 when using benificals because it will kill them.

6) I use RO/Distiled water which would requier Calcium and Magnisium. Hence the Use of Calmag and Sweet- which puts a little more Mg in the mix which is removed faster during early growth. Also Sweet as stated on the bottle if used during veg it prevents plants leggy and soft stemed in the presence of high N levels also helps during trans period to help in the presence of low N levels. why wait for the plant to show a defficency problem when you can avoid it by having no problems? Also seems counter productive to allow your plant to get to the point of showing the defficency problem.

7) So I Ask: Are you quoting from shit you read or Shit you know. Because If i changed my res as often as you suggest my plants would never have time to take in the full effect of my nute ccombo and it would be a waste of nutes. I mix full strenght - half sstrength nutes for add back because i start each res with ver little nutes. I take my readings and see what newgrowth is always having to state because most people dont read the whole log before posting. and that is

ppm goes up, ph goes down=less nutes
ppm goes down, ph goes up=more nutes
ppm stable, ph goes up= normal h2o/nute uptake.

so with this i just add back till i reach the 3rd point ppm stable ph going up

but in the past week with add backs eveything s stable so i can give you my new #'s alog with the weekly numbers for each day along with add back totals and how they were mixed. 

1-what size res are you using to the total number of gallons accually used in the res. Ie my tote 14gal tote - but H2O/nutes gallons used 9. For my 10gallon tote i use 6gallons of water.

2-What nutes do you use how do you mix them, in what order, what happens when you mix them, why do you use them what is you #'s when adding each nute? and How offten do you check your res #'s?

3- What are your water - nute ratios?


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## NewGrowth (Apr 19, 2009)

sophanox said:


> hey newgrowth, I was just wondering if you could give me some advice...
> 
> I'm gonna invest in a 8 plant nft system, but as this is my second grow, I'm gonna be starting from seed. Thus, I was wondering what I should do with the seeds, because when they sprout they wont have long enough roots for the NFT. Should I make a temporary dwc or something?
> 
> ...


What medium are you using to start seeds? Usually the water level is adjustable on NFT systems. Sometimes I hand water for a week or so and let the medium dry out a bit between waterings so the roots grow downward seeking water.


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## NewGrowth (Apr 19, 2009)

I thought I would post this link here. I'm building some aeroponic tubs.https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/185418-how-cheat-high-school-math.html


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## sophanox (Apr 20, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> What medium are you using to start seeds? Usually the water level is adjustable on NFT systems. Sometimes I hand water for a week or so and let the medium dry out a bit between waterings so the roots grow downward seeking water.


I'm going to use grodan rockwool cubes. Can I just leave the seedlings in there and water the cubes untill they are tall enough to be put in the nft?

Thanks a lot man


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## NewGrowth (Apr 20, 2009)

sophanox said:


> I'm going to use grodan rockwool cubes. Can I just leave the seedlings in there and water the cubes untill they are tall enough to be put in the nft?
> 
> Thanks a lot man


Yeah that will work as well


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## howak47 (Apr 21, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Very well said flip good to see you around, how id your test go?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you using the tabs? I see SICC is on your thread he uses those and did a couple aerogarden grows.


no iam not using tabs i have pic of nutrients on thread its a water soulable 20-20-20 mix


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## NewGrowth (Apr 21, 2009)

howak47 said:


> no iam not using tabs i have pic of nutrients on thread its a water soulable 20-20-20 mix


Sorry man just been busy. I looked through your grow journal and saw the nutrients. I think those will cause you problems b/c they are for soil not hydroponics.

Try to find something made for hydroponics, even those Aerogardens tabs seem to work well for some people.


----------



## plantman969 (Apr 22, 2009)

Newgrowth,

can you please help me understand the flower phase. 

what i mean is i am in week 2 of bloom and all is good but want to understand before i get there. 

1)How does the nute intake differ. I know you trans from grow to bloom mixing both during this time and then once buds start you can lay off the grow and focus on the bloom nutes. Because the plant no longer needs (N), and needs more (P) and (K).

2) I guess what would be the best way to help stack buds and keep flavor. Some bump up the (P) and (K) levels the last 3 weeks before flush. Am i correct?

3) Or can u explain the concept of say (example only) AN - bud blood, big bud, overdrive, final phase or Foxfarms - open sesame, bestie blooms, and cha ching. Both are "Formulas For Success."


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## NewGrowth (Apr 22, 2009)

plantman969 said:


> Newgrowth,
> 
> can you please help me understand the flower phase.
> 
> ...


It depends, in early flower I usually make sure they have enough Nitrogen. There is a stretch period when you change the light cycle for flowering. The plants have a growth spurt and then start forming buds. It is a good idea to provide some nitrogen throughout flower just not too much or you will get leafy bud. A good bloom nutrient should have some nitrogen as well.




> 2) I guess what would be the best way to help stack buds and keep flavor. Some bump up the (P) and (K) levels the last 3 weeks before flush. Am i correct?


This is kind of a myth. Plants are not like animals that can be "fattened" with extra food. A plant will only use as much nutrient as it needs to grow, a little extra can be stored in the leaves. The trick is to find the "sweet" spot where your plants are getting exactly what they need and no extra. Hydroponics makes that easy because you can track your ppm levels.



> 3) Or can u explain the concept of say (example only) AN - bud blood, big bud, overdrive, final phase or Foxfarms - open sesame, bestie blooms, and cha ching. Both are "Formulas For Success."


I don't use any of those products although some people have success with them. The idea of a "bloom booster" is to provide more readily available P-K in mid to late stage flowering. I've seen a lot of people burn their plants using bloom boosters and then exclaim how great they are.
Keep it simple and be sure you have a good understanding of basic hydroponics before you jump into tons of additives. Good luck bro!


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## sophanox (Apr 22, 2009)

Hey newgrowth,

I'm gonna be growing from seed in an NFT and thus will have males which I will need to remove. I was thus wondering will I be alright to just pull them out carefully and then use sensi zym or something similar to kill off the dead roots? 

Also I have a general question if that's ok - I was thinking of forcing the plants to show sex as soon as poss by covering a lower branch with a black plastic bag, thus puttin that branch into flowering. I was wondering how early you'd recommend doing this? Like after 3 nodes or something?

Thanks a lot man =)


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## NewGrowth (Apr 22, 2009)

sophanox said:


> Hey newgrowth,
> 
> I'm gonna be growing from seed in an NFT and thus will have males which I will need to remove. I was thus wondering will I be alright to just pull them out carefully and then use sensi zym or something similar to kill off the dead roots?


Try to remove as much as possible but the enzyme should clear up the rest, hygrozyme works well for me.



> Also I have a general question if that's ok - I was thinking of forcing the plants to show sex as soon as poss by covering a lower branch with a black plastic bag, thus puttin that branch into flowering. I was wondering how early you'd recommend doing this? Like after 3 nodes or something?
> 
> Thanks a lot man =)


How old are your plants? Mature plants (a month or older) should start to show some pre-flowers. It usually occurs right after you see alternating nodes. Look 3-4 nodes up for them. You could do the bag at any time, I would just put over one branch.


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## sophanox (Apr 22, 2009)

Wicked, cheers man




> How old are your plants? Mature plants (a month or older) should start to show some pre-flowers. It usually occurs right after you see alternating nodes. Look 3-4 nodes up for them. You could do the bag at any time, I would just put over one branch.


I haven't got them yet, I'm just planning ahead - i'll be planting 16-20 seeds in the hope of getting 8 females, but they'll all be in my NFT gro tank which is designed for 6-8 plants - thus I need to get the males out of there asap to give the females plenty of room =)

Cheers!


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## Downward Spiral (Apr 22, 2009)

I have a refractometer and was wondering if I could use it for my reservoir/plant and or if it would even tell me anything beneficial


----------



## Downward Spiral (Apr 22, 2009)

the brix scale that is...


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## sophanox (Apr 23, 2009)

Hey Newgrowth, I was wondering about the importance of using distilled water? I've had a look round and water distillers cost like two hundred pounds, and then they only distill a gallon every four hours!

Thanks man


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## NewGrowth (Apr 23, 2009)

Downward Spiral said:


> I have a refractometer and was wondering if I could use it for my reservoir/plant and or if it would even tell me anything beneficial





Downward Spiral said:


> the brix scale that is...


Not sure never used one myself. I think some people are able to identify specific nutrient levels using a refractometer.



sophanox said:


> Hey Newgrowth, I was wondering about the importance of using distilled water? I've had a look round and water distillers cost like two hundred pounds, and then they only distill a gallon every four hours!
> 
> Thanks man


Tap water works fine. Sometimes tap water with really high ppm or ph is mixed with RO or distilled water. I doubt you will have much problem with you tap water though.


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## cowboylogic (Apr 23, 2009)

Just came across this thread. Thanks NG. I look forward to reading through it start to finish. Anyway I am a old dirt grower. But my next grow will be hydro. Here is a pic of my hpickly jar hydro experiment. Before and after. Ghetto yes. But the plant in it I victimized playing with topping methods. I know, shame on me! So for the hell of it I pulled it from the dirt and stuck her here. Happy ever After! Already working on my hydro sys for this summers grow. In advance, thanks. I am sure I will have a few ?. +REP


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## whatapothead (Apr 24, 2009)

NewGrowth.... can i change this system into a DWC bubbler system? and still keep 32 sites on it as long as i have enough air flowing thru the water?
https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/156863-grow-2-lbs-2-x.html

i'm not happy with the growth i'm getting out of it as is.

also not sure if its been done yet but someone should make a sticky with every single type of hydro setup there is and put a name to it.... theres so many combinations that i don't know what to call each one.

like this 32 site... DWC aeroponics? 

lemme know


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## sophanox (Apr 24, 2009)

Cheers newgrowth!


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## NewGrowth (Apr 24, 2009)

whatapothead said:


> NewGrowth.... can i change this system into a DWC bubbler system? and still keep 32 sites on it as long as i have enough air flowing thru the water?
> https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/156863-grow-2-lbs-2-x.html
> 
> i'm not happy with the growth i'm getting out of it as is.
> ...


I'm sure you could. The ones I built recently are pretty similar to that thing but I use and ultrasonic fogger. Here check it out https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/185418-how-cheat-high-school-math.html


sophanox said:


> Cheers newgrowth!


Back at yah bro


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## oysta007 (Apr 25, 2009)

hi names short.....i m new to the hydro thing and i need some advice...my plants are very leggy at 5 days under t5 fluorescent lights and its about 3 inches tall and all stem with a tiny four leaf clover......any advice for the newbie?????? my light fixture is set about 2 inches from the plants....




[/IMG]


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## oysta007 (Apr 25, 2009)

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## oysta007 (Apr 25, 2009)




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## NewGrowth (Apr 26, 2009)

oysta007 said:


> hi names short.....i m new to the hydro thing and i need some advice...my plants are very leggy at 5 days under t5 fluorescent lights and its about 3 inches tall and all stem with a tiny four leaf clover......any advice for the newbie?????? my light fixture is set about 2 inches from the plants....
> 
> 
> 
> ...





oysta007 said:


> [/IMG]





oysta007 said:


>


Your pics seem to have a broken link. I need more info, what kind of set-up any nutrients?


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## oysta007 (Apr 26, 2009)

i am using the ebb and flow method and my nutes are dyna-gro grow 7-9-5 and dyna-gro bloom 3-12-6.....


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## NewGrowth (Apr 26, 2009)

Looks pretty good to me a little stretched. Just watch them, not much you can do but add more light.


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## sophanox (Apr 26, 2009)

Yo Newgrowth, so I'm about to place my hydro order but I was just wondering if there are any other nutes I need other than GHE bloom, GHE micro and hygrozyme? Gonna be using an nft! 

Cheers man!


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## NewGrowth (Apr 27, 2009)

sophanox said:


> Yo Newgrowth, so I'm about to place my hydro order but I was just wondering if there are any other nutes I need other than GHE bloom, GHE micro and hygrozyme? Gonna be using an nft!
> 
> Cheers man!


Did you get the growth formula as well? That should be all you need.


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## armlengthbuds (Apr 27, 2009)

BMO Nutes , super teas that work perfect in hydro... E bay " Super Plant Tonic" Blue Mountain Organics 35$ ebay shipped.... Look uo threads on her about em. They are unbelieveable! i've had no clogging at a 1min t- 5 min misting schedule. no nute burn, easy PH. Just sayin, if you want organic goodness go BMO!!!! Happy Growing


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## FrankThaDank (May 2, 2009)

Which hydroponic system is the easiest to operate


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## NewGrowth (May 2, 2009)

FrankThaDank said:


> Which hydroponic system is the easiest to operate


That is really dependent on the grower. Coco coir seems pretty simple, DWC is pretty easy to set-up but requires close monitoring compared to flood tables.

Everyone has their own style but if you are looking for low maintenance go soil. Unless you have money to spend on auto-dosing systems that maintain your Ph and nutrient levels.


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## GypsyBush (May 2, 2009)

Hey NG..

What do you think of this... lol...

Like I was just thinking that I have an area in my op that has enough light to warrant a few more ladies...

But I am kinda strapped for cash right now so I went looking around the house...

I found...

1 - 185 gph water pump

2 - 5ft of flexible hose

3 - 18 gallon tub (the res)

4 - bottom half of a 32 gallon rubbermaid (the tray)

5 - 11 6" pots

6 - some string

7 - some gravel from the driveway ( I would have preferred using hydroton, but the gravel was free, we'll see how it works)

It is a recirculating drip/squirt sytem...

The water gets pumped to the individual pots via holes in the hose.. and returns to the res via holes in the bottom of the tray...

I plan on running it 4 hours on 15 min off... during lights on...

Simple as it gets, and although it was not free, most people here have this stuff at home...

Here is the picture...

and I'll make sure to bring updated pics when the time comes...

Cheers...


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## NewGrowth (May 2, 2009)

Awesome Gypsy! I'm a big fan of home-made hydro systems and I am guilty of scrounging myself.


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## GypsyBush (May 2, 2009)

I think I am stretching it a little bit with the driveway's gravel, but.. I see no reason for it not to work just fine...


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## NewGrowth (May 2, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I think I am stretching it a little bit with the driveway's gravel, but.. I see no reason for it not to work just fine...


Probably work just make sure you rinse it really well and sanitize it with bleach water or H202. Some gravel will alter the Ph though.


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## GypsyBush (May 2, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Probably work just make sure you rinse it really well and sanitize it with bleach water or H202. Some gravel will alter the Ph though.


I wonder how plastic shavings might work...

I am not sure I like the weight of the gravel...

I am a little afraid it will collapse the res under it... making a mess...


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## NewGrowth (May 3, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I wonder how plastic shavings might work...
> 
> I am not sure I like the weight of the gravel...
> 
> I am a little afraid it will collapse the res under it... making a mess...


 I bet the plastic would work but they might get into the pump. I'm trying to think of what else you could use but I'm too high . . .


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## mrduke (May 3, 2009)

you ever tried growing in styrofoam like the shipping popcorn shit?


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## bob4eva (May 3, 2009)

How do you think i should germinate my seeds in a drip system. In the system or outside and how?


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## NewGrowth (May 3, 2009)

bob4eva said:


> How do you think i should germinate my seeds in a drip system. In the system or outside and how?


Start them in your starting media aka rockwool, rapid rooters, coco, ect. I like to hand water my seedlings until roots begin emerging from the starting media then I transplant into my system.


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## NewGrowth (May 3, 2009)

mrduke said:


> you ever tried growing in styrofoam like the shipping popcorn shit?


Only problem is it might float away and make a mess.


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## plantman969 (May 4, 2009)

NewGrowth-

Hows everyone doing? Good I hope. Dropped by for little input.

I am running my 250 but decided to add a little more light to the mix . I hve a homebox s 2x2x6 and added 2 42w cfls 2600lumens at 2700k, 1 23w cfl at 1750lumens @ 2700k and 2 23w cfl uva/uvb reptile/lizard lights from the pet store putting out 5.0 uva/uvb rays. Read that uva/uvb rays are good during the bloom/flower cycle to help produce moe resin and hairs due to the radiation like effects of the bulbs. Can say that since putting these two bulbs in the tent i have seen a change in the bud production. The areas on the plant in the most direct path of these lights have shown significant hair prodution over the other parts of the plant. I have 3 plants in the bloom tent. 2 Super Lemon Haze (1 showing the sativa pheno and the other more of the indica phenos) from Greenhouse Seeds and 1 Barneys Farm Nightshade (This Plant is crazy Big leafed indica, even from early veg the leafs are huge i mean the size of fat basil leafs each part of the leaf not just the whole leaf .) 

So this is my first true grow and have noticed some strange growth with my plants (not bad). I know everyone has there own tecnique but i have yet to see any plants like mine on any grow forum (grasscity, icmag, and here). For the best explination here goes.

Started with 16 seed and had never grown before and had terrible problems with the time from cracked seed to planting and sprouting. I could get the seed to crack but never sprout. I mean i tryed everything - tap water, ro/distiled water light no light, i mean everything.
So in the end what worked for me is the compleat opposit of what everyone suggest on these forums. For me to get past this stage here is what i did.

The day i put my seeds in papertowels (germed in wet paper towels sealed in a ziplock and set on my dresser) I also presoaked my rockwool and hydroton in a pre mixed gallon of 1/4 strength nutes)

PBP Grow, Calmag, Liquid Karma, Sweet, a touch of B-52, and Mycos - Stared with voodoo juice but now use humboldt nutes myco madness. 

the next night all the seeds had cracked and it was time to plant. shook out the rockwool and drained the hydroton. Next instead of waiting for roots the plnts went directly into my dwc (at 300ppm/tds 19 with water filled to the second notch on the bottom of the net pots. Next i place some small plastic containers over each net pot acting like a humidome for each plant. Once the plant had removed the shell (sometimes with some very crafull help) and started on its second set of real leafs so the third set 1-water leaf - 2- 1st set of feeder/fan leafs - 3- 2nd set of fan leafs i removed the domes. This was all before the ddition of the cfls in the tent - so just the 250 was in there at the time.

This is where it gets different. i wanted to run only 2-4 plants (currently 3 plants) insted of the six on average for the size. I also wanted to top, supercrop, and lst all in the same grow. Didnt start this way but this is where i am at now. I started with topping my plants so as to keep them short bushes so the plant takes up the area of two. next i lowered my 250 to 4-6 inches above my plants just above the point i could feel the heat - so as low as i could go befor feeling the heat of the lamp. In doing this the plant remained short i mean short. I veged for 6 weeks from 3/3 - 4/12 before swithcing to 12/12. At this time the plants were only 9-10 inches tall max. On 4/3 i changed res water and damn near killed the plants ph was at 4.75 over night. Did another res change ending at ph 5.75 with ph nute lock out and over watered plants. cut off all affected plant matter and reveged till 4/12 when they recovered with all new leafs. 4/12 finallyswitched to 12/12.


because of almost killing the plants i ended up supercropping them when i removed all but the new grothw shoots. So at that point they had been topped and suppercroped, well as they recovered more for the first week of 12/12 i noticed a shit ton of growth. Worred i would run out of room and end up with a lot of smaller bud, i decided to lollipop all the brnches to one node below each top (each plant has a min of 12-16+ tops)
after this i added some tiedowns to a few branches and instaled an area for My scrog screen. Which will be installed in the next day or two as the plants are starting to reach the area designated for the screen. 

So Lets Recap- Plants have been
1- Topped
2- suppercroped
3- Lollipoped
4- LSTed
5- and soon to be screened

in doing this my plants are crazy looking I mean they looked like mini trees. one plant my largest is different. i have net pot covers and straigt out of the top there is not really a stalk/ stem it branches out right out of the top. 
the other two ave about 2-3 inches of stalk before the branching out. at each section of the plant where growth sprouts from the branches are swollen i mean nottie just huge. They have finnal reall started to strech and brought a friend by that has his own plants- to take a look and tell me what he thinks- This is whyi have posted he told me that he had never seen a cannibis plant that looked like mine - not in person or on any video he has seen. And i should post a video and pics to see if anyone has any input. 

Now i know that i have tryed to much on my first grow (simplest is easyest and learn the basics), also if in the end crop is no good or small i will have a hrder time narrowing down what might have been wrong, but i am a really fast learner and like to experiment. No excuse! but ta all i got. so if you have any ideas on the possible outcome or ideas please let me know.

To late for pics as it is past lights out for my babies but i will post some tomarrow to give you some visuals to go with this long post.


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## hazee (May 4, 2009)

NewGrowth,
I have a rez with a 290gph ecoplus pump running water through my mister setup 15min on - 30 min off. It is 6.5 gal rubbermaid. Do you think I would need another smaller pump with tubing and airstones connected? What would I need?

ThankS!


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## NewGrowth (May 4, 2009)

plantman969 said:


> NewGrowth-
> 
> Hows everyone doing? Good I hope. Dropped by for little input.
> 
> I am running my 250 but decided to add a little more light to the mix . I hve a homebox s 2x2x6 and added 2 42w cfls 2600lumens at 2700k, 1 23w cfl at 1750lumens @ 2700k and 2 23w cfl uva/uvb reptile/lizard lights from the pet store putting out 5.0 uva/uvb rays. Read that uva/uvb rays are good during the bloom/flower cycle to help produce more resin and hairs due to the radiation like effects of the bulbs.


The UVA/UVB thing is a theory to try to explain why cannabis plants produce such a heavenly resin. Most experiments I've seen have show little to no increase in production when people try to add UV light. I personally would not use it, UV radiation is pretty damaging to most plants. The "hairs" are pistils and having more does not mean better bud. A good example is trainwreck it grows huge calyx's and few hairs compared to something like white widow. The amount of resin produced has mostly to do with the strain .


> Can say that since putting these two bulbs in the tent i have seen a change in the bud production. The areas on the plant in the most direct path of these lights have shown significant hair prodution over the other parts of the plant. I have 3 plants in the bloom tent. 2 Super Lemon Haze (1 showing the sativa pheno and the other more of the indica phenos) from Greenhouse Seeds and 1 Barneys Farm Nightshade (This Plant is crazy Big leafed indica, even from early veg the leafs are huge i mean the size of fat basil leafs each part of the leaf not just the whole leaf .)


Sounds tasty 

So this is my first true grow and have noticed some strange growth with my plants (not bad). I know everyone has there own tecnique but i have yet to see any plants like mine on any grow forum (grasscity, icmag, and here). For the best explination here goes.



> Started with 16 seed and had never grown before and had terrible problems with the time from cracked seed to planting and sprouting. I could get the seed to crack but never sprout. I mean i tryed everything - tap water, ro/distiled water light no light, i mean everything.
> So in the end what worked for me is the compleat opposit of what everyone suggest on these forums. For me to get past this stage here is what i did.


I prefer to germinate my seeds directly in my media of choice as well, paper towels, pre-soaking, ect only cause problems and make it more complex than it should be IMO. Glad you found a way that works for you. My last couple batches from Greenhouse have been slow to germ however.



> The day i put my seeds in papertowels (germed in wet paper towels sealed in a ziplock and set on my dresser) I also presoaked my rockwool and hydroton in a pre mixed gallon of 1/4 strength nutes)
> 
> PBP Grow, Calmag, Liquid Karma, Sweet, a touch of B-52, and Mycos - Stared with voodoo juice but now use humboldt nutes myco madness.


That's a lot of*stuff!~



> the next night all the seeds had cracked and it was time to plant. shook out the rockwool and drained the hydroton. Next instead of waiting for roots the plnts went directly into my dwc (at 300ppm/tds 19 with water filled to the second notch on the bottom of the net pots. Next i place some small plastic containers over each net pot acting like a humidome for each plant. Once the plant had removed the shell (sometimes with some very crafull help) and started on its second set of real leafs so the third set 1-water leaf - 2- 1st set of feeder/fan leafs - 3- 2nd set of fan leafs i removed the domes.


I don't recommend humidity domes for any purpose really. They promote damping off, stunt growth and slow cloning. A moist media works just fine.



> This was all before the ddition of the cfls in the tent - so just the 250 was in there at the time.
> 
> This is where it gets different. i wanted to run only 2-4 plants (currently 3 plants) insted of the six on average for the size. I also wanted to top, supercrop, and lst all in the same grow. Didnt start this way but this is where i am at now. I started with topping my plants so as to keep them short bushes so the plant takes up the area of two. next i lowered my 250 to 4-6 inches above my plants just above the point i could feel the heat - so as low as i could go befor feeling the heat of the lamp. In doing this the plant remained short i mean short. I veged for 6 weeks from 3/3 - 4/12 before swithcing to 12/12. At this time the plants were only 9-10 inches tall max. On 4/3 i changed res water and damn near killed the plants ph was at 4.75 over night.


Grow drama



> Did another res change ending at ph 5.75 with ph nute lock out and over watered plants. cut off all affected plant matter and reveged till 4/12 when they recovered with all new leafs. 4/12 finallyswitched to 12/12.


 It's a weed and grows like it too!




> because of almost killing the plants i ended up supercropping them when i removed all but the new grothw shoots. So at that point they had been topped and suppercroped, well as they recovered more for the first week of 12/12 i noticed a shit ton of growth. Worred i would run out of room and end up with a lot of smaller bud, i decided to lollipop all the brnches to one node below each top (each plant has a min of 12-16+ tops)
> after this i added some tiedowns to a few branches and instaled an area for My scrog screen. Which will be installed in the next day or two as the plants are starting to reach the area designated for the screen.
> 
> So Lets Recap- Plants have been
> ...


 You into bondage? S&M?  Just kidding . . .


i


> n doing this my plants are crazy looking I mean they looked like mini trees. one plant my largest is different. i have net pot covers and straigt out of the top there is not really a stalk/ stem it branches out right out of the top.
> the other two ave about 2-3 inches of stalk before the branching out. at each section of the plant where growth sprouts from the branches are swollen i mean nottie just huge. They have finnal reall started to strech and brought a friend by that has his own plants- to take a look and tell me what he thinks- This is whyi have posted he told me that he had never seen a cannibis plant that looked like mine - not in person or on any video he has seen. And i should post a video and pics to see if anyone has any input.


I'll bet after all that you've got some bonsai weed, I've had old mothers that ended up looking like you described after so many cuttings.



> Now i know that i have tryed to much on my first grow (simplest is easyest and learn the basics), also if in the end crop is no good or small i will have a hrder time narrowing down what might have been wrong, but i am a really fast learner and like to experiment. No excuse! but ta all i got. so if you have any ideas on the possible outcome or ideas please let me know.


Sounds like you have a had a great learning experience. I would love to see those pictures. It's pretty had to predict an outcome with all that has happened so far . . . .



> To late for pics as it is past lights out for my babies but i will post some tomarrow to give you some visuals to go with this long post.


Keep me updated bro sounds like you are having fun!



hazee said:


> NewGrowth,
> I have a rez with a 290gph ecoplus pump running water through my mister setup 15min on - 30 min off. It is 6.5 gal rubbermaid. Do you think I would need another smaller pump with tubing and airstones connected? What would I need?
> 
> ThankS!



I assume you are talking about an air-pump? If so it's always a good idea to oxygenate you reservoir.


----------



## hazee (May 4, 2009)

Would (3) 4inch airstones do in a 17 gal rez?


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## sophanox (May 4, 2009)

Hey newgrowth,

I'm gonna be vegging in a rubbermaid bubblebox DWC and flowering in an NFT. The NFT uses grodan rockwool cubes, whilst the bubbler uses netpots. Can i just squeze the rockwool cubes into the netpots, or will I have to come up with a better solution?

Thanks very much


----------



## plantman969 (May 4, 2009)

Newgrowth you hit the nail on the head bonsi plants for sure- 

So here are the pics - its alot but here goes

part 1 of 2


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## plantman969 (May 4, 2009)

plantman969 said:


> Newgrowth you hit the nail on the head bonsi plants for sure-
> 
> So here are the pics - its alot but here goes
> 
> part 1 of 2



part 2 of 2

some of these are from my veg box 1 super lemon haze and a chiesel the one in the front with the cord on it is the SLH and the one in the back is the chiesel


----------



## NewGrowth (May 4, 2009)

hazee said:


> Would (3) 4inch airstones do in a 17 gal rez?


Yeah that should be more than enough.



sophanox said:


> Hey newgrowth,
> 
> I'm gonna be vegging in a rubbermaid bubblebox DWC and flowering in an NFT. The NFT uses grodan rockwool cubes, whilst the bubbler uses netpots. Can i just squeze the rockwool cubes into the netpots, or will I have to come up with a better solution?
> 
> Thanks very much


Why not put the cubes into the net pots before hand then just transfer them to your DWC flower space pot and all? 



plantman969 said:


> Newgrowth you hit the nail on the head bonsi plants for sure-
> 
> So here are the pics - its alot but here goes
> 
> part 1 of 2


Great pics man! Lets see the buds! Looks like they will have quite a few bud sites and the stems are impressive. I think if you keep it simple and watch the Ph through flowering you will be very satisfied with the results. The screen is a good idea as well, you don't have much headroom in there and they are going to start a growth spurt very soon.

Good Luck bro I'm rolling up some Nor-Cal outdoor from '08 for ya


----------



## plantman969 (May 5, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Great pics man! Lets see the buds! Looks like they will have quite a few bud sites and the stems are impressive. I think if you keep it simple and watch the Ph through flowering you will be very satisfied with the results. The screen is a good idea as well, you don't have much headroom in there and they are going to start a growth spurt very soon.
> 
> Good Luck bro I'm rolling up some Nor-Cal outdoor from '08 for ya


Thank you. as far as head space they accutally have alot so to speek the bloom tent is 2x2x6. Including the dwc tote and light they have about 4 feet of grow space. I plan on putting the screen about half that. 

And yes i have learned ALOT and is more fun than imaginable. 

Once again thank you for your input.


----------



## trdank (May 5, 2009)

I don't have rockwool in my area. I want to know if perlite and hydroton are good enough to use from start to finish when using a homemade DWC bubbler? sysytem


----------



## NewGrowth (May 5, 2009)

trdank said:


> I don't have rockwool in my area. I want to know if perlite and hydroton are good enough to use from start to finish when using a homemade DWC bubbler? sysytem


Yes that will work fine if you are using cuttings. For seed you will have to use a starting media (rockwool, rapid rooters, ect.)


----------



## sophanox (May 5, 2009)

> Why not put the cubes into the net pots before hand then just transfer them to your DWC flower space pot and all?


Thanks newgrowth - so could I put netpots in an NFT? Sorry it hasn't actually arrived yet, I'm just trying to plan things hypothetically - cheers!


----------



## GypsyBush (May 5, 2009)

Thought I'd share with everyone...

Started in Ebb/Flow under 600 HPS...

Transplanted to soil last weekend...


----------



## plantman969 (May 6, 2009)

NewGrowth check this out and tell me what u think. Do you think it is worth it and do you think it will work in a dwc

This first-of-its-kind system generates the CO2 needed for aquatic plants to perform photosynthesis.


http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754083

Hagen CO2 Natural Plant System provides plants with a key nutrient that is lacking in most aquariums, Carbon Dioxide (CO2). This self-contained system generates the CO2 needed for aquatic plants to perform photosynthesis. This natural fermentation system has been designed to provide a simple and effective approach to providing dissolved CO2. Using a proven concept, every component has been carefully conceived to enhance performance. The level of CO2 generated by this system is ideally suited to most planted aquariums illuminated with fluorescent lighting.


Designed for tanks up to 20 U.S. gallons (75 l), for larger aquariums use multiple units
Dramatic results in 15-20 days
Enhances growth, condition and color of aquatic plants
Creates healthier aquatic eco-system
 *Size:* 3" diameter x 7¾" high (8¼" with airline adapter)
*Includes:* a fermentation canister, bubble diffuser and 90 days' worth of activator and stabilizer. Simply add water and regular table sugar (not included) to begin the process.


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## NewGrowth (May 6, 2009)

sophanox said:


> Thanks newgrowth - so could I put netpots in an NFT? Sorry it hasn't actually arrived yet, I'm just trying to plan things hypothetically - cheers!



Maybe depends on how the system is designed.



plantman969 said:


> NewGrowth check this out and tell me what u think. Do you think it is worth it and do you think it will work in a dwc
> 
> This first-of-its-kind system generates the CO2 needed for aquatic plants to perform photosynthesis.
> 
> ...



I know they sell fermentation kits similar to this that Generate CO2. I personally have never used CO2. I doubt this little kit would generate enough CO2 to actually be beneficial. Real results are seen at 1200-1400 ppm.

Gypsy-

Thanks for more beautiful pictures. Sunflowers are really cool


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## GypsyBush (May 8, 2009)

Thought I'd share and ask your views on this article...

Cheers....


----------



## GypsyBush (May 8, 2009)

I also wonder what you make of this post...



Major Tom said:


> Holy shit I think I know why my plant was having a hard time to bloom!!!!
> 
> The fucking CLF's glow for HOURS after you turn them off!
> 
> ...


----------



## onthedl0008 (May 8, 2009)

GB I didnt read the whole entire article man. Figured id just ask ya straight out. Does that end with a bad conclusion or what bro. Because ive been supplementing my tubs with 3-5 mL of 3% peroxide for the longest time and never seen any ill effects.
Matter of fact its very beneficial to plants in early seedling and clone stages.. Furthermore. Ive saved non taproot germing seeds with it as well.
Ive heard alot of bad stuff about peroxide man especially lately. Maybe not for the beginner but deffinetely the cheapest alternate to whatever the more expensive oxygen enriching supplements are supposed to do.
It helps PH fluctuations as well. Im not sure if the expensive stuff does that tho ive never splurged on it.


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## GypsyBush (May 8, 2009)

You gotta read it dude...

I am just an ignorant bastard trying to make heads and tails of it all...

I don't know shit.. that is why I posted, asking people's thoughts...lol...

Take a second to read it, you will not regret it...


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## NewGrowth (May 8, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Thought I'd share and ask your views on this article...
> 
> Cheers....


Is that from Urban gardener Gypsy? I'm pretty sure I read that article.  I'm still not sure about that magazine. I'll have to read a few more issues to see if they are not just shamelessly endorsing products they advertise.
I really like Hygrozyme it is a great product.

That said H202 also has it's place and yes it can damage roots in high concentrations. But it is the best product to clear out excess salts and really clean out any hydro system.

I think that article was too harsh, when used properly H202 is a great addition to hydro. Most people run too low concentrations to have any effect anyway. I have yet to see a thread where someone killed their plants with too much h202 . . . .



GypsyBush said:


> I also wonder what you make of this post...


Jeeze, I just ignore stuff like that man. If people an not even type in a normal sized font and be coherent I just ignore them. And CFL's don't glow after you turn them off that's just retarded.



onthedl0008 said:


> GB I didnt read the whole entire article man. Figured id just ask ya straight out. Does that end with a bad conclusion or what bro. Because ive been supplementing my tubs with 3-5 mL of 3% peroxide for the longest time and never seen any ill effects.
> Matter of fact its very beneficial to plants in early seedling and clone stages.. Furthermore. Ive saved non taproot germing seeds with it as well.
> Ive heard alot of bad stuff about peroxide man especially lately. Maybe not for the beginner but deffinetely the cheapest alternate to whatever the more expensive oxygen enriching supplements are supposed to do.
> It helps PH fluctuations as well. Im not sure if the expensive stuff does that tho ive never splurged on it.


You run way to low concentrations to ever damage your plants. The "bad" stuff you hear happens from time to time. Stick with what works for you man.



GypsyBush said:


> You gotta read it dude...
> 
> I am just an ignorant bastard trying to make heads and tails of it all...
> 
> ...


I thought the article on mycorrhizal inoculum was better. Did you read that one gypsy?


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## GypsyBush (May 8, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Is that from Urban gardener Gypsy? I'm pretty sure I read that article. I'm still not sure about that magazine. I'll have to read a few more issues to see if they are not just shamelessly endorsing products they advertise.


It is...

That is the reason I brought it over here..

I don't know this shit and I don't want to take some dude's word for it just because he has a billboard...lol... I mean a magazine...




NewGrowth said:


> I really like Hygrozyme it is a great product.


I use it and love it too... my clones now have glow in the dark noodles for roots...lol....

but... check this thread...

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/182651-anyone-have-problems-hygrozyme.html




NewGrowth said:


> I thought the article on mycorrhizal inoculum was better. Did you read that one gypsy?


Not yet... but I will...

Thanks NG..!!


----------



## onthedl0008 (May 8, 2009)

Thanks Bro. Hope all is well. Peace.


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## GypsyBush (May 10, 2009)

Need some more Gypsy clutter?

Here...lol..

I did a partial harvest on one of the trays...

The stash is getting low, so it's time to do some drying...

I didn't weigh them wet, but I know this will be my lowest yield so far....

These are some of the clones that I accidentally spilled some of my miniaturizing potion on, so while they are not full blown miniatures, they are pretty dang small...lol...

I expect no more than 10g each on average.. and that sucks!!!

Anyways.. here is the drying rack...


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## motif (May 10, 2009)

2 seperate strains growing in same area, the taller ones new growth leaves at the top seem to be abnormally skinnier, and seems like this is only happening torwards the top bud sites. Temps are about 30 C daytime, water about 68 F. any guesses what this is? week 4 flowering


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## GypsyBush (May 10, 2009)

NG... I want you opinion...

I am seriously considering retrofitting my trays with a fogger...

I would still flood and drain, but I would have the fogger on all times (lights ON only right?)

The plants would be on netpots hanging from a tray lid with the holes cut out..

This is what I have been reading over and over..lol..

Thanks!

http://nutramist.com/retrofit.html


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## NewGrowth (May 11, 2009)

motif said:


> 2 seperate strains growing in same area, the taller ones new growth leaves at the top seem to be abnormally skinnier, and seems like this is only happening torwards the top bud sites. Temps are about 30 C daytime, water about 68 F. any guesses what this is? week 4 flowering


Have any pictures? Skinnier how? Are the curling or burnt?



GypsyBush said:


> NG... I want you opinion...
> 
> I am seriously considering retrofitting my trays with a fogger...
> 
> ...


That was interesting Gypsy. I've had good experience with fog improving growth rates and reducing the amount of nutrients I use. Those Nutramist foggers are pretty cool but WAY overpriced. You can get the same fogger for 1/4 the cost @ mainlandmart.com The only problem is figuring out how to direct the fog, I wish I could look at one of those nutramist set-ups to see how the fog is directed. I assume a small fan?


----------



## motif (May 11, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Have any pictures? Skinnier how? Are the curling or burnt?


the leaves are like blades, super skinny. Some are curling but i think thats because my tarp was leaning on em. And there is a slight curl AND burnt tips on most higher leaves. Like tiny bit. but the tips (not side margin of leaves) curl UP and are slightly browned i think from a slight nute burn.

pictures dont do justice with my phone camera.

Im using a 600watt HPS Hortilux bulb, and the light is about 15" above the top of the canopy. I have a fan level with the reflector blowing the heat off the canopy. Also the length of the white hairs are much longer towards the lower/middle of the plant. The higher up the plant you look, the shorter the length of the hairs get. 

heres a picture, but it really doesnt show much of the problem i have....

Any suggestions?


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## NewGrowth (May 11, 2009)

motif said:


> the leaves are like blades, super skinny. Some are curling but i think thats because my tarp was leaning on em. And there is a slight curl AND burnt tips on most higher leaves. Like tiny bit. but the tips (not side margin of leaves) curl UP and are slightly browned i think from a slight nute burn.
> 
> pictures dont do justice with my phone camera.
> 
> ...


They look healthy to me, most leaf deformation is caused by a Ph problem. From what i can see your plants look great. You may jut have some sativa genetic resulting in thinner leaves.


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## motif (May 12, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> They look healthy to me, most leaf deformation is caused by a Ph problem. From what i can see your plants look great. You may jut have some sativa genetic resulting in thinner leaves.


thanks NG, i think the shorter hairs on the top were just because my tarp kept leaning on em and breaking em off.

But as far as the VERY TIPS of the leaves turning brown and curling up, is this a heat related symptom, or slight nute burn??


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## NewGrowth (May 12, 2009)

motif said:


> thanks NG, i think the shorter hairs on the top were just because my tarp kept leaning on em and breaking em off.
> 
> But as far as the VERY TIPS of the leaves turning brown and curling up, is this a heat related symptom, or slight nute burn??


Can really be a lot of things. It is usually indicative of slight burn like you said, it is also characterized by very dark green leaves. Heat stress usually involves leaf rolling and crisp, burnt leaf margins.


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## magilla gorilla (May 12, 2009)

hey, i got a 50L rez. feeding only 1 plant atm. how often should i empty and refill my rez? i use a dripper system, growing in coco


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## NewGrowth (May 12, 2009)

magilla gorilla said:


> hey, i got a 50L rez. feeding only 1 plant atm. how often should i empty and refill my rez? i use a dripper system, growing in coco


Every two weeks is best sometimes longer if there is minimal Ph flux and you are running enzymes.


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## Tweeds (May 12, 2009)

Hey NG!
I am planning a basement grow with a flowering room inside a (240cm x 120cm x200cm) grow tent. I want to do a sog similar to Al's but cannot afford to set up a second tent so i will only be using two 4ft x 4ft tables.

1. Is it in my best interests to run a sog with 2 week intervals with only two reservoirs? Running weeks 1-2 & 2-4 in the same tray and similarly with weeks 4-8. Or is it much more efficient to use four different trays?

2. Also, I was planning on using (1) 1000w HPS on a light mover over the two ebb and flow tables. I didn't think about the varying plant heights so will I be able to use one high over both tables or would it be better to use (2) 600w HPS?

3. Would i be a problem if my mother plants were grown in soil and clones grown in hydro?

Ha sorry for all the questions I have been reading up on and off for the past year or so and just want to figure out these last few things!


----------



## NewGrowth (May 12, 2009)

Tweeds said:


> Hey NG!
> I am planning a basement grow with a flowering room inside a (240cm x 120cm x200cm) grow tent. I want to do a sog similar to Al's but cannot afford to set up a second tent so i will only be using two 4ft x 4ft tables.
> 
> 1. Is it in my best interests to run a sog with 2 week intervals with only two reservoirs? Running weeks 1-2 & 2-4 in the same tray and similarly with weeks 4-8. Or is it much more efficient to use four different trays?


You can use just two trays, just have a lower yield than the four trays.



> 2. Also, I was planning on using (1) 1000w HPS on a light mover over the two ebb and flow tables. I didn't think about the varying plant heights so will I be able to use one high over both tables or would it be better to use (2) 600w HPS?


Two 600's will give you more light and more yield. A 1000 has pretty good canopy pentration and should work well for just two trays especially if it is air cooled.



> 3. Would i be a problem if my mother plants were grown in soil and clones grown in hydro?


Nope that's what I do.



> Ha sorry for all the questions I have been reading up on and off for the past year or so and just want to figure out these last few things!


Glad to help good luck man


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## magilla gorilla (May 13, 2009)

thanks for the reply about rez changes. 

i got another question for ya.

what is the optimum temperature for my rez?
because there are massive differences in my 'ppm' readings depending on temp.


----------



## NewGrowth (May 13, 2009)

magilla gorilla said:


> thanks for the reply about rez changes.
> 
> i got another question for ya.
> 
> ...


Optimum is 68 F. You should not be getting different ppm readings, meters are made to adjust to temperature changes. Unless you need a new meter or it needs to be calibrated.


----------



## magilla gorilla (May 13, 2009)

seeing as though you're on a roll (thanks again) can you just tell me if my baby is doing ok? 

today i just noticed that are leaves are drooping down a fair bit.. just wanna know if it's normal or what.

i water 4 times a day for 1 minute each time and i'm growing in coco.


also, when can i start to trim the lowest branches?

View attachment 416244


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## NewGrowth (May 13, 2009)

magilla gorilla said:


> seeing as though you're on a roll (thanks again) can you just tell me if my baby is doing ok?
> 
> today i just noticed that are leaves are drooping down a fair bit.. just wanna know if it's normal or what.
> 
> ...


Looks pretty good to me, coco is pretty good a holding a proper air to water ratio even when saturated. Wait a couple weeks and you will understand which branches need to be trimmed.


----------



## sophanox (May 14, 2009)

hey newgrowth, I've got my seedlings in small rockwool cubes, they're about 5 or 6 days old and about 5cm in height. I was just wondering when I should start giving them a weak nutrient solution? 

Thanks man


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## GypsyBush (May 14, 2009)

I'm littering again..lol...

KIEF... a Silent Diary... by GypsyBush


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## motif (May 14, 2009)

Hey NG, check out my (what appears to be sativa dom) plant and see if the burnt tips curling up looks like nute burn.

Also, the leaves up on the top two tallest branches, have only 3 lobes?! The lower you go down the plant, the more lobes (up to 9) Is this jusst retarded genetics or what??

Aside from that, how does everything else look??


----------



## NewGrowth (May 14, 2009)

sophanox said:


> hey newgrowth, I've got my seedlings in small rockwool cubes, they're about 5 or 6 days old and about 5cm in height. I was just wondering when I should start giving them a weak nutrient solution?
> 
> Thanks man


I usually wait until the second set of true leaves start to form. You can always do a weak solution every other watering too.



GypsyBush said:


> I'm littering again..lol...
> 
> KIEF... a Silent Diary... by GypsyBush


I love it man, nice work 



motif said:


> Hey NG, check out my (what appears to be sativa dom) plant and see if the burnt tips curling up looks like nute burn.
> 
> Also, the leaves up on the top two tallest branches, have only 3 lobes?! The lower you go down the plant, the more lobes (up to 9) Is this jusst retarded genetics or what??
> 
> Aside from that, how does everything else look??


I would say that is genetic, they look great !


----------



## orzz (May 14, 2009)

Been learning alot from this thread. Thanks NG 
Here is a snapshot of one of my ladys, F13.
I am amzed how fast things happen FOR ME in hydro as compared to dirt.
I feel a bit behind ... lol ... a lot behind, and they got BIGGER than I wanted.


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## orzz (May 14, 2009)

No pic ???? 

trying again.


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## NewGrowth (May 14, 2009)

orzz said:


> No pic ????
> 
> trying again.


Very nice man good work!


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## orzz (May 15, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Very nice man good work!


Thanks NG and that is the Purple Kush not the F13. Not my night for posting pictures. I had problems on my thread also.

Here is the F13


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## motif (May 15, 2009)

orzz said:


> Thanks NG and that is the Purple Kush not the F13. Not my night for posting pictures. I had problems on my thread also.
> 
> Here is the F13


that looks a lot like my sativa dom plant, it was a chronic bagseed tho so i dunno what it is exactly


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## NewGrowth (May 15, 2009)

Very nice picture, thanks for posting it!


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## orzz (May 15, 2009)

NG have you seen this .... ICE BOX Water-Cooled Heat Exchanger?


----------



## NewGrowth (May 16, 2009)

orzz said:


> NG have you seen this .... ICE BOX Water-Cooled Heat Exchanger?


Yes I have seen those. The $26,000 grow journal has a guy using them, still waiting for him to update to see how well he says they work, check it out.


----------



## motif (May 16, 2009)

^^^link???


----------



## orzz (May 16, 2009)

motif said:


> ^^^link???


*LINK* This is how we do it on the other side (was the $26.500 thread)


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## motif (May 16, 2009)

Hey NewGrowth,

can you find out the ppm per doseage of these three products?

1.) Plant Food with an Attitude = *Super B+
*2.) Technaflora = *MagiCal
*3.) Technaflora = *Awesome Blossoms*


----------



## NewGrowth (May 16, 2009)

orzz said:


> *LINK* This is how we do it on the other side (was the $26.500 thread)


Thanks man I was way too high for that 



motif said:


> Hey NewGrowth,
> 
> can you find out the ppm per doseage of these three products?
> 
> ...



I don't use any of those products myself, PPM will vary depending on your water anyway.


----------



## motif (May 16, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Thanks man I was way too high for that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah i know, the bottles dont tell me what the ppm is per gallon and im trying to guess what my ppm is....grrr

just the micro/grow/and bloom, week 5 flower ppm = 800. so im trying to figure out what the final ppm is after i dose it up with my additives... oh well

Also i have been having a couple healthy leaves (sometimes big fan leaves) fall off. They arent withered or anything and look perfectly fine sometimes. 

Is this a sign of magnesium and/or calcium defeciency??


----------



## NewGrowth (May 16, 2009)

motif said:


> yeah i know, the bottles dont tell me what the ppm is per gallon and im trying to guess what my ppm is....grrr
> 
> just the micro/grow/and bloom, week 5 flower ppm = 800. so im trying to figure out what the final ppm is after i dose it up with my additives... oh well
> 
> ...


Remember to still take into account your water PPM. For example if your plants are a low nutrient strain like Satori lockout may occur at as low as 1600ppm. If you have a tap water with 200ppm and you add 800ppm worth of nutes and 600ppm in additives you can still cause lockout.

I'm starting to become a fan of RO water even though I have preached for so long that tap water is just fine. I have found that to be true but RO makes it a lot easier to Ph and take PPM readings. So tap water is fine but RO water is great.

How old are your plants? Sometimes old growth will die off as the plant ages.


----------



## motif (May 16, 2009)

i thought nute lock out was only caused by topping off with nutes, not allowing your nutes to mix individually when pre-mixing them, and by off balanced pH levels.... what am i forgetting??


.::.Another Question.::.

Can you tell what what exact model of hood this is? i got it used from my friend and i think the sun system sticker was just stuck on there by him..
I wanna get a glass lens for my reflector, but i cant find out what model reflector i have....here some pics


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## NewGrowth (May 17, 2009)

motif said:


> i thought nute lock out was only caused by topping off with nutes, not allowing your nutes to mix individually when pre-mixing them, and by off balanced pH levels.... what am i forgetting??
> 
> 
> .::.Another Question.::.
> ...


Where did you find that bro? its missing the glass, and the flanges for cooling.

What wattage is that lamp? I'm looking at the bulb and it looks like a 400 w bulb to me. That is not a sun systems ballast though.

I'm looking at this although its not a sun systems set up its pretty close to what you have and some parts have already been swapped out on your system like the ballast. I would think it would work, http://www.hydroempire.com/store/product_info.php/cPath/3_20_62/products_id/165


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## motif (May 17, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Where did you find that bro? its missing the glass, and the flanges for cooling.
> 
> What wattage is that lamp? I'm looking at the bulb and it looks like a 400 w bulb to me. That is not a sun systems ballast though.
> 
> I'm looking at this although its not a sun systems set up its pretty close to what you have and some parts have already been swapped out on your system like the ballast. I would think it would work, http://www.hydroempire.com/store/product_info.php/cPath/3_20_62/products_id/165


yeah i got it from my friend... This is what he told me he was selling me:

1.) Sun System Hood w/ Diamond spreader 95% German Reflective Aluminum
2.) 25 ft ext. cord to ballast
3.) 600w Hortilux Bulb (never used)
4.) Cheap ballast (doesnt get hot tho, and works. So i guess thats fine, right?)

...All this for $250. Think i got ripped?


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## GypsyBush (May 17, 2009)

NG...

The Gypsy's Bush has crabs... 

Freaking mosquitoes in my mom's water...

I am going to get one of these, as I have in the flowering res... it filters solids (i have carpet...) and keeps the water moving in the res...







And treat with H2O2 after multiple flushes...

You would be amazed at how much crap it catches on my res...

And there is something to the filters ability to retain beneficial (any) bacteria... I still have to do some more investigating, but that is what they claim ... that you can re-recolonize the aquarium from a clean-up, with the bacteria that have colonized the filter...

But I want it to keep the water from being just a puddle...lol...

Comments???

kiss-ass


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## NewGrowth (May 17, 2009)

motif said:


> yeah i got it from my friend... This is what he told me he was selling me:
> 
> 1.) Sun System Hood w/ Diamond spreader 95% German Reflective Aluminum
> 2.) 25 ft ext. cord to ballast
> ...


Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Maybe you can just take measurements and get glass cut somewhere.



GypsyBush said:


> NG...
> 
> The Gypsy's Bush has crabs...
> 
> ...



Looks good to me, let me know how that thing works out.


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## GypsyBush (May 17, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> I know that thing works pretty good, I have had 2 in my flower room for 4 months now...
> 
> i was wondering what you thought of my plan to erradicate the beats...lol...
> 
> Cheers!!! and thanks NG..!!!


----------



## NewGrowth (May 17, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I know that thing works pretty good, I have had 2 in my flower room for 4 months now...
> 
> i was wondering what you thought of my plan to erradicate the beats...lol...
> 
> Cheers!!! and thanks NG..!!!


Well Mosquitos can only breed in stagnant water to I'm sure agitating the reservoir will do the trick.


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## MaryJane777 (May 18, 2009)

First I just hafta say....
EWWWWWWWWWWW Gypsy! Bugs have no place in the house or in your grow, LOL Know you down enough to have a plan or have it controlled by now but those pics gave me the willy's. MJ




Hi Mr./Ms. Newgrowth...I am new here to RIU & on my 1st grow. I know!!! Another damn newbie...sorry, but here I am I have read lots of your threads/posts & have great respect ..+ rep just for your patience & knowledge base. I'm having a helluva time with my plants...mostly my own doings (have had mold, overwatering, was misting plants with seaweed & PH'd water, etc...) Have read lots here on RIU & feel I have culled out most of the BS & trying to retain the basic knowledge just to get through this first grow experience. Just wondering if you'd maybe check out my last page of my thread & take a look at my pics? I trust the help I've been recieving thus far but I'd just like for you to take a lil looksey if you wouldn't mind? I'm a female grower & well sometimes we don't get taken very seriously around here <SIGH>



Here's the pertinent info...
Growing stealth DWC in Bloombox by BC Nothern Lights. Seperate veg & flower recirculating reservoirs with top drips (Have this currently turned off second to advice from DWC club member) 150W CFL in veg, 400W HPS in flower. 
Dedicated AC in grow closet & 3 muffin fans. Using Connosieur flower nutes (A & B) and carbo load for now with 35% H2O2 1.7ML/GAL. Have CO2 capabilities but haven't figured out a supplier for such just yet. Temps in grow box avg. ~ 75F & humidity ~40%.
Currently have very short roots due to root pruning by H2O2 after appearance of mold although these plants are close to 40 days from popping seed. They are currently in flower under 12/12/ HPS lamp. I have water in res maybe 1/4" from bottom of pots which are full of rockwool (promise there will be some rocks in bottoms next time, GRRRR) so my roots are in water with 4 12" airstones. I have one plant that is growing great but has never really had many roots outside of rockwool. Currently growing Maple Leaf Inica by Sensi seeds. I will go take fresh pics from today now & post. kiss-ass 

Peace, MJ


----------



## motif (May 19, 2009)

Hey NG,

i got a broad question just about indica vs sativa...

What are the pros and cons to growing sativa? I know they take longer to flower than indicas and grow taller and are harder to grow..

- But are sativas more desirable?

- Are they better smoke/high?

- Since they take so damn long to flower, are they going to yeild more than an indica?

- What are the pros vs cons of growing sativa?


----------



## MaryJane777 (May 19, 2009)

Nevermind Newgrowth...I have algae & it's bad. Plan to get Physan 20 & treat. Bleached my grow res out & will add beneficials per Hygozime but my plants look awful...not sure they'll make it. Thx anyway, MJ


----------



## NewGrowth (May 20, 2009)

motif said:


> Hey NG,
> 
> i got a broad question just about indica vs sativa...
> 
> ...


Most plants today are hybrids. I like a sativa in the morning and to smoke throughout the day. Sativa's are something you can keep smoking and just get higher and higher. Unlike heavy Indica's that get you really stoned to the point you can't move or you just go to sleep.



> - Are they better smoke/high?


Depends on what you like, head high confused soaring type (sativa) or stoned, eat a lot (indica)



> - Since they take so damn long to flower, are they going to yeild more than an indica?


Usually yes, sativas tend to grow larger and have a large yield. A lot of pure sativas will have lighter fluffy buds. However like I said most seed stock sold today are hybrid varieties. The benefit is what is call "hybrid vigor" a indica/sativa cross will grow faster, yield more, ect. 



> - What are the pros vs cons of growing sativa?


Pros- Larger plants, often higher yields, great smoke for being active. 

Cons- Longer flowering time, some people prefer to be stoned not super high.




MaryJane777 said:


> Nevermind Newgrowth...I have algae & it's bad. Plan to get Physan 20 & treat. Bleached my grow res out & will add beneficials per Hygozime but my plants look awful...not sure they'll make it. Thx anyway, MJ


I'll check out your journal now Mary. Physan 20 works great but it foams so if you add to much to a res with an air stone it will make a huge mess . . . . that is from experience


----------



## sophanox (May 20, 2009)

hey NG, i asked you a few pages back when do i begin nutes on seedlings in rockwool cubes. you said when the see the second set of true leaves, however I was just wondering do you mean as soon as I can see the tips of the second set of leaves poking through, or when they are actually firmly established? thanks a lot!


----------



## NewGrowth (May 20, 2009)

sophanox said:


> hey NG, i asked you a few pages back when do i begin nutes on seedlings in rockwool cubes. you said when the see the second set of true leaves, however I was just wondering do you mean as soon as I can see the tips of the second set of leaves poking through, or when they are actually firmly established? thanks a lot!


I wait until the second set of leaves start growing then add a little nitrogen. The don't need much.


----------



## MaryJane777 (May 20, 2009)

Newgrowth I was just wondering how much of that Physan 20 to put in my soup if I start with 6 gal distilled water? & Hygrozime? Sorry, have no experience with these but it obviously worked for you so maybe it'll work for me. Can you believe the same people who make Hygrozime also make the seaweed? Kinda makes ya go HMMMMMMMMMM!!!! Much obliged ...I appreciate youkiss-ass <<<<<<<<<<<MJ


----------



## NewGrowth (May 21, 2009)

MaryJane777 said:


> Newgrowth I was just wondering how much of that Physan 20 to put in my soup if I start with 6 gal distilled water? & Hygrozime? Sorry, have no experience with these but it obviously worked for you so maybe it'll work for me. Can you believe the same people who make Hygrozime also make the seaweed? Kinda makes ya go HMMMMMMMMMM!!!! Much obliged ...I appreciate youkiss-ass <<<<<<<<<<<MJ


I think I posted this on your thread but I would try 1/2 ml daily for about four days. Just watch for too much foam.


----------



## MaryJane777 (May 22, 2009)

Thx NewGrowth


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## Cropster (May 23, 2009)

Only new to this hydro scene my tap water has a ppm of 0600 will I have to buy bottled water? It seems far to high going by what I'm reading.


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## Leilani Garden (May 23, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Most plants today are hybrids. I like a sativa in the morning and to smoke throughout the day. Sativa's are something you can keep smoking and just get higher and higher. Unlike heavy Indica's that get you really stoned to the point you can't move or you just go to sleep.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Put me in the INDICA camp. 

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but sativa strains seem to be more in demand--is it the "speed" effect? I gave up caffeine years and years ago, including soft drinks. I get way too wired off them. 

So based on that extensive  background, does anyone reading this have any clue as to why certain personality types/ physical types would prefer the UP or the DOWN of anything? 

Yes, I'm serious. i don't like caffeine. Alcohol is strictly okay in my book (I"ve had enough hang over morning, thanks). BUT .... a clue. Back in the day . . . when "they" still made quaaludes? I LOVED them. I'm a downer lover. Anyone know or have a clue as to why? And yes, I'm a real high energy person. Would love to hear op's on this.

Sorry NG, to .... chatter about nonsense in your journal. Forgive? kiss-ass

Oh ... you know me and I know you, so this is okay, right? I hope so. 

To all new lurkers? NG is THE MAN. 

Yup, you heard it here first and from a soil person. Yup, NG is the man. 


Signing out now. But does anyone know of any reliable patterns about people and their preferred types? I'm serious, not being silly (as I have been want to do lately, heh heh)

Night all.


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## olscratchy (May 23, 2009)

I am trying to find some information on cloning with ultrasonic fogger.
1. how long should the fogger run?
2. should I use a Dome over the cuttings?
3. should I use nutrient?
4. should I use medium other than neoprene & a 3" basket?
5. can fogger be in same container or piped in?
And any other info would be great, Thanks


----------



## headbandrocker (May 23, 2009)

Hi Ng
would a 24k btu window a/c keep a 11 x 13 room w 6k cool?
I can also air cool the lights,im looking for ideal temps in there


----------



## NewGrowth (May 24, 2009)

Leilani Garden said:


> Put me in the INDICA camp.
> 
> Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but sativa strains seem to be more in demand--is it the "speed" effect? I gave up caffeine years and years ago, including soft drinks. I get way too wired off them.
> 
> ...


You must have gotten a hold of some hash oil LG. I still love ya though 

I like downers myself but sativa is a more mild "upper" kind of mellows the world but lets ideas and energy flow. I like to do creative things when I smoke sativas.



olscratchy said:


> I am trying to find some information on cloning with ultrasonic fogger.
> 1. how long should the fogger run?




24/7



> 2. should I use a Dome over the cuttings?


No using a dome inhibits rooting and promotes rot. Let the plants search for water a little and the will root faster. A fog environment works well.



> 3. should I use nutrient?


No nutrients. You can use a rooting hormone like clonex in the reservoir.



> 4. should I use medium other than neoprene & a 3" basket?


Depends on how you want your plant supported. Without a medium the plant will have to be tired or supported as it grows.



> 5. can fogger be in same container or piped in?


Yes this is how I run with the fogger in the same container. I'm not sure how I would pipe it in. Make sure you use the correct size fogger. I'm having some problems now because I tried to use smaller foggers in larger reservoirs. Not producing enough fog can cause problems. I'm going to fix my problem by installing drip lines.

[/QUOTE]And any other info would be great, Thanks [/QUOTE]

Foggers work well IMO. It is important that you choose the correct size fogger for your application. I made the error of using a smaller foggers in my system and the plants are suffering as a result. 

Check out mainlandmart.com for the cheapest bulk supply of foggers I can find yet.



headbandrocker said:


> Hi Ng
> would a 24k btu window a/c keep a 11 x 13 room w 6k cool?
> I can also air cool the lights,im looking for ideal temps in there


Yes with cool tubes and with out. I highly recommend cool-tubes they will lower your electric bill dramatically. Running an A/C unit 24/7 can cost a lot. Also consider insulating your room, it will help reduce heating and cooling cost.

Running your lights at night helps tremendously, and basements are ideal unless you have really cold winters.

Good luck to you bro


----------



## motif (May 24, 2009)

does lollipopping decrease your yeild a lot by cutting off the bottom 1/3 of the plant? Did i just lose a 1/3 of my yeild by cutting this bottom 1/3 off?


----------



## NewGrowth (May 25, 2009)

motif said:


> does lollipopping decrease your yeild a lot by cutting off the bottom 1/3 of the plant? Did i just lose a 1/3 of my yeild by cutting this bottom 1/3 off?


Depends on your set-up. In a SOG the loss is not much and it is only small buds. If the plant has plenty of space around it to grow removing the bottom one third will probably decrease yield quite a bit.

The point of removing the bottom foliage in a SOG is to increase air-circulation around the plants and create a single large, dense cola that is easy to trim.


----------



## wannabee (May 25, 2009)

hi - i was just wondering what the difference is between air pumps and water pumps. Where do you find the foil tape? thanks


----------



## NewGrowth (May 26, 2009)

wannabee said:


> hi - i was just wondering what the difference is between air pumps and water pumps. Where do you find the foil tape? thanks


Air pumps pump air and water pumps pump water. Foil tape is probably near the ducting/HVAC section of you local hardware store.


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## doniawon (May 26, 2009)

just got back from cali for tha first time and now i feel special so im sharing it with the class .. hit up the blue sky and got some blue dot.. awsome.. dj's blue satelitte.. cut a little early but very nice.. gorilla frost nice and purple alien green haze gods gift and a gram of og kush bubble... the whole experience .. getting the license the clubs the beaches and mountains.. well worth the money spent.. everyone should grow a couple more plants for a cali trip..


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## motif (May 27, 2009)

is this a a symptom of rapid pH fluctuation? Nute burn? Something else?

DWC (lollipopping) 5 gallon bucket day 42 flower under 600w hps (currently day 3 flush to get rid of salt buildup etc)

Any ideas?


----------



## NewGrowth (May 27, 2009)

motif said:


> is this a a symptom of rapid pH fluctuation? Nute burn? Something else?
> 
> DWC (lollipopping) 5 gallon bucket day 42 flower under 600w hps (currently day 3 flush to get rid of salt buildup etc)
> 
> Any ideas?


Hard to say without more info. What has your Ph been? Why not just change out your reservoir, and run a mild bloom solution and some H2O2 or hygrozyme? Hydro responds fast so if you don't see improvement with in 48 hrs you have another issue.


----------



## Leilani Garden (May 30, 2009)

Y*ou must have gotten a hold of some hash oil LG. I still love ya though *

Probably, since I have no recollection whatsoever of that post. Eeek. Should I be glad it's all gone? I dunno. Make some more? Umm, dunno. 

I do know this: I'm going to bed.


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## GypsyBush (May 30, 2009)

My solution to the mosquito problem...

No more puddles... no more algae.. no more bugs...

And I have a spare water pump circulating within the res to make sure the little pests don't move in there..

Here is the new tray and res...

Cheers!


----------



## sophanox (Jun 1, 2009)

hey newgrowth,

I was just wondering what's the easiest way to keep motherplants in a hydroponic setup. Can I just leave them in 4 inch rock wool cubes and hand water them a weak nute solution when necessary? Thanks a lo!


----------



## iloveit (Jul 29, 2009)

Hey there NewGrowth could you take a look at this issue with my plants please: https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/218702-never-had-problem-blueberry-clones.html


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## GypsyBush (Jul 29, 2009)

sophanox said:


> hey newgrowth,
> 
> I was just wondering what's the easiest way to keep motherplants in a hydroponic setup. Can I just leave them in 4 inch rock wool cubes and hand water them a weak nute solution when necessary? Thanks a lo!


I keep mine like this... super convenient...


----------



## sophanox (Jul 29, 2009)

how does that work gypsybush? are they just in hydroton in normal pots?


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 29, 2009)

it's called ebb/flow or flood and drain...

pots with hydroton get flooded as the animation below depicts...

a lazy stoner's best friend...


----------



## NewGrowth (Jul 31, 2009)

Nice animation bro . . . .


----------



## GypsyBush (Jul 31, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Nice animation bro . . . .



it's from Al B. Fuct's gallery....

​


----------



## chemicalsword (Aug 3, 2009)

urgent problem!! so I have 4 mothers (2 strawberry cough and 2 blue cheese) in a 2 ft X 2 ft flood and drain tray. didn't intend to flower them.. wanted to keep them for clones but due to circumstances I need to flower them. 8 weeks in no problems until yesterday I noticed the leaves were drooping and the one's closest to the top colas were browning and becoming brittle. checked my drain and saw roots had grown into it clogging it... not allowing the tray to drain properly. so I'm sure the problems I'm having are due to overwatering and possible early root rot signs. what can I do for my plants??? I flushed the roots w/ water. should I stop feeding them for a day or should I continue them on their regular schedule w/ full strength nutes??? they feed 3 times a day for 20 mins. any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!


----------



## NewGrowth (Aug 4, 2009)

chemicalsword said:


> urgent problem!! so I have 4 mothers (2 strawberry cough and 2 blue cheese) in a 2 ft X 2 ft flood and drain tray. didn't intend to flower them.. wanted to keep them for clones but due to circumstances I need to flower them. 8 weeks in no problems until yesterday I noticed the leaves were drooping and the one's closest to the top colas were browning and becoming brittle. checked my drain and saw roots had grown into it clogging it... not allowing the tray to drain properly. so I'm sure the problems I'm having are due to overwatering and possible early root rot signs. what can I do for my plants??? I flushed the roots w/ water. should I stop feeding them for a day or should I continue them on their regular schedule w/ full strength nutes??? they feed 3 times a day for 20 mins. any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!


Let them dry out and run a high concentration of H2O2 for a couple days. You can lengthen the dry cycle and flood less often, then resume your regular flood schedule when they come back.

2-3 ml/L 35% H2O2


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

figured I'd share the last pics of these girls in veg...

I'll prolly flip them this week...


----------



## NewGrowth (Aug 4, 2009)

Damn Gypsy growing some monsters . . . . . I hope you have a chainsaw you will need it in about nine weeks.


----------



## doniawon (Aug 4, 2009)

gypsy, nice plants... I thought you were doing dwc, sog??? are you growing trees now.. did you have better yield with your trees or sog? are you still doing dwc.. or is that a flood and drain???


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

doniawon said:


> gypsy, nice plants... I thought you were doing dwc, sog??? are you growing trees now.. did you have better yield with your trees or sog? are you still doing dwc.. or is that a flood and drain???



I have not touched DWC in a long time.. 10 months or so...

The SOG has been ebb/flow from day one...

The trees are still vegging as you can see, so I cannot compare yields...

But the zero veg SOG is way more efficient... I did not like having my big lights on so long just to veg...

Everything I have and had going on in the last 8 months has been ebb/flow... including the trees...

Cheers...


----------



## grownavy1091 (Aug 4, 2009)

what's going on guys? I'm a noob and I'm trying to figure out if it's "safe" to order hydro supplies online with my own information, i'm working on my first grow pretty soon, I've been just reading, and studying since I joined the site, by the way it's awesome keep up the good work, I'll probably be using the supercloset deluxe as well, thanks in advance


----------



## chemicalsword (Aug 4, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Let them dry out and run a high concentration of H2O2 for a couple days. You can lengthen the dry cycle and flood less often, then resume your regular flood schedule when they come back.
> 
> 2-3 ml/L 35% H2O2


 
thanks a million man. I've fed them one time in the last 24 hours. I've cut off the severely damaged fan leaves.... hoping I'll be able to tell if my plants are showing signs of improvement. I'll start w/ the high concentration of hydrogen peroxide immediately... twice a day??
about how many ml/ gallon???


----------



## NewGrowth (Aug 4, 2009)

chemicalsword said:


> thanks a million man. I've fed them one time in the last 24 hours. I've cut off the severely damaged fan leaves.... hoping I'll be able to tell if my plants are showing signs of improvement. I'll start w/ the high concentration of hydrogen peroxide immediately... twice a day??
> about how many ml/ gallon???


A gallon is 4 liters so just multiply by 4.

2-3ml/L is 8-12ml/G

Once a day should be fine and cut back when they start to show improvement.


----------



## NewGrowth (Aug 4, 2009)

grownavy1091 said:


> what's going on guys? I'm a noob and I'm trying to figure out if it's "safe" to order hydro supplies online with my own information, i'm working on my first grow pretty soon, I've been just reading, and studying since I joined the site, by the way it's awesome keep up the good work, I'll probably be using the supercloset deluxe as well, thanks in advance


Yes it is safe . . . hydroponic supplies are completely legal 

Sometimes you can get better deals if you buy loyally from a local hydro retailerkiss-ass


----------



## grownavy1091 (Aug 4, 2009)

cool, thanks alot man you've saved me some fingernails. lol. I can't wait to get started. one more question, If I get the 600 watt HPS I should probably get the CO2 injection kit that comes with the setup as well huh? (supercloset.com) the deluxe. i'm just worried about getting refills of the co2 if I need it. it comes with a 400 watt, and I'll be growing between 8-10 plants maybe 2.5'-3.5' ft. is the 400 watt enough? or should I grab the 600 watt?


----------



## NewGrowth (Aug 4, 2009)

grownavy1091 said:


> cool, thanks alot man you've saved me some fingernails. lol. I can't wait to get started. one more question, If I get the 600 watt HPS I should probably get the CO2 injection kit that comes with the setup as well huh? (supercloset.com) the deluxe. i'm just worried about getting refills of the co2 if I need it. it comes with a 400 watt, and I'll be growing between 8-10 plants maybe 2.5'-3.5' ft. is the 400 watt enough? or should I grab the 600 watt?


I would wait on the CO2 until you have done a few grows, CO2 makes things happen fast . . . .

Those things are cool but kind of pricey and there is not much space in there for plant growth, keep them small and harvest more often.

For a cheaper alternative build your own . . . . check out Kilobit's grow he built some cabs for a much more reasonable price that work great for him.


----------



## grownavy1091 (Aug 4, 2009)

he's got a nice setup, and if there was a setup that I could follow then I guess I would give it a try and save the money, I mean I've got it to burn, and I'll be doing it right outta my single car garage, but I don't have any tools, so thats why it was an option i guess. thanks for the advice and the quick response. so do you think 3 ft. is short enough?


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## NewGrowth (Aug 4, 2009)

grownavy1091 said:


> he's got a nice setup, and if there was a setup that I could follow then I guess I would give it a try and save the money, I mean I've got it to burn, and I'll be doing it right outta my single car garage, but I don't have any tools, so thats why it was an option i guess. thanks for the advice and the quick response. so do you think 3 ft. is short enough?


Three foot plants as a final size maybe if you start flowering at three feet then expect 6-7 ft plants . . . .


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

grownavy1091 said:


> he's got a nice setup, and if there was a setup that I could follow then I guess I would give it a try and save the money, I mean I've got it to burn, and I'll be doing it right outta my single car garage, but I don't have any tools, so thats why it was an option i guess. thanks for the advice and the quick response. so do you think 3 ft. is short enough?


I'd recommend a single cola SOG...

DeweyKox has an awesome 600w set up...

and his 5" clones give him up to 1 oz...

check...

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/175322-white-rhino-belladonna-27.html



DeweyKox said:


> DeweyKox
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And here are some of my examples of SOG...

4 plants per square foot is the common single cola lollipop spacing for SoG...



here... clones.. packed tight in RW cubes..














































as the clones get rooted, the get poted into 5.5" square pots... 






















then the pots are packed in as tight as I can get in my tray...

7 rows of 7, minus one for the fittings...

like this... SoG...



























did that make sense?

4 plants per square foot is the max recommended without crowding...

regardless of size light...

choose your tray for the light...

1k 4x4 - 63 lollipops

600 3x3 - 48 lollipops


never used a 400 so I dunno...

I hope that helps...



Another resource for SOG is Al B. Fuct's https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/6592-get-harvest-every-2-weeks.html

Remember you can scale this style of grow from one plant every 2 weeks to 10 thousand... your imagination is the limit..

My SOG has run on a daily basis... putting out an oz a day, everyday...

Anyways.. here is some of Fuct's PROVEN ideas...




Al B. Fuct said:


> Al B. Fuct
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And I should also mention that all this has been accomplished using ebb/flow...

like the animation illustrates...

 



Another thread worth mentioning is https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/122687-gypsys-600-watt-home-made.html








I built the tent itself for about $50... with no tools necessary...


I hope this helps out...

Sorry to butt in NG... I can delete the post if you want...

I was just a lil' bored...
​


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## GypsyBush (Aug 5, 2009)

ohoh was I a party pooper???

I can delete it NG...


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## NewGrowth (Aug 5, 2009)

Naw your posts are great Gypsy . . . .  I remember your homemade tent!

Maybe you can take over this thread soon too . . . . I'm going to the other side after my current grow. All organic soil . . .


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## GypsyBush (Aug 5, 2009)

WOW...

Right on...

But we both know that I do not know nearly enough to run a thread like this...

Thanks though...

I am sure someone will step up...

But you are doing coco now right???


----------



## NewGrowth (Aug 5, 2009)

I would be happy to keep answering hydro questions but I would feel kind of bad after switching to soil. Also I've got quite a few other projects planned as well.

Yeah the Vertical room is coco-coir on a drip irrigation system, drain to waste.

It should be done on friday when my pump gets delivered. Hopefully these cuttings will root soon . . .


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## GypsyBush (Aug 5, 2009)

do you clone in the coco?


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## NewGrowth (Aug 5, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> do you clone in the coco?


No the clones are in peat moss then I'm going to transfer them to the coco-coir. The coco I have is too course for cloning . . . its got chunks of coconut that hold water mixed in with the coir strands.

Seems like really good stuff, super light weight and holds plenty of water but never seems to get over saturated.

Some of my clones are wilting right now but this strain did the same thing last time, it wilted for a few days and then rooted.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 5, 2009)

I hear you...

So coco is coconut fibers...

what about the coir?


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## NewGrowth (Aug 5, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I hear you...
> 
> So coco is coconut fibers...
> 
> what about the coir?


Coco coir is coconut fibers, I think coir just means fiber. First time with coco so we will see how it goes . . .


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## GypsyBush (Aug 5, 2009)

Right right...

I have a buddy about to start a grow using natural fibers from coconuts he gets at the beach...

So I was wondering if there was anything else...



He is also trying Xaxim...

Are you familiar with it?







They make all kinds of pots with the trunk...




















It's kinda like coco... orquids LOVE it...

But it is the trunkof a plant/tree...


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## NewGrowth (Aug 5, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Right right...
> 
> I have a buddy about to start a grow using natural fibers from coconuts he gets at the beach...
> 
> ...



That's pretty cool Gypsy!

I've seen that medium, I don't think it is recommended for fruiting or flowering plants mostly for orchid like you said. I would like to play around with it though.

I like coco because it is renewable and almost 100 % inert. It releases small amounts potassium naturally and takes on the ph of the solution you water it with (no adjustment period or pre-soaking like rockwool).

My plan is to use my regular Ionic regiment with a little cal-mag. I'm also going to innoculate with mychorrizal fungi (coco holds beneficials well). I'll hand water the inoculation with some mollasses.

I wish I could collect my own coir from the beach! They use a huge grinding machine to break up the hulls and then it has to be rinsed well with fresh water to get rid of any salt.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 11, 2009)

what do you think of this?

Me likey...

but to make not to buy...


now this is pretty interesting... even if way overpriced...


http://www.everestgardensupply.com/index_HYGS.php


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## NewGrowth (Aug 14, 2009)

Dude I saw your post earlier today that thing is pretty awesome. My light tube is similar to the one on that.

The only drawback to that thing is it costs $5000 not cheap . . .


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## wholearth (Aug 17, 2009)

How do you do bending, im afraid my ww will get to tall


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## NewGrowth (Aug 17, 2009)

wholearth said:


> How do you do bending, im afraid my ww will get to tall


Just use string and pull the plant where ever you want it to go. Don't be afraid you can bend them quite a bit.


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## maddawg13 (Sep 17, 2009)

Hello NewGrowth .

I have DWC question . I am in the final week of flushing .

When its time to cut them do I leave the air stones going while the plants are in the 24 hour no light prior to cutting them ? 

This is my first DWC grow , Was not sure to leave the roots sitting in water for 24 hours with out the air stones on .


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## NewGrowth (Sep 19, 2009)

maddawg13 said:


> Hello NewGrowth .
> 
> I have DWC question . I am in the final week of flushing .
> 
> ...


Just flush them and cut them. No magic or voodoo before harvest in hydro. flush for 3 days to a week and cut them when they are ripe


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## GypsyBush (Sep 19, 2009)

HIJACK...

Please spread this video....

Let's help them SEE...

[youtube]BBNyuf533Go[/youtube]


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## flipsidesw (Sep 19, 2009)

HI Newgrowth!


I have a plant started from a seed from a sack of brick weed.. It 2 months old now,, sitting in my kitchen window.. I was hoping to yield about 2lbs.. Is there anyway to increase this?

Also,, Can i foliar feed with grape kool aid to make it purple? Or should i use food coloring...

Thanks in advance for you help!!!


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## GypsyBush (Sep 19, 2009)

flipsidesw said:


> HI Newgrowth!
> 
> 
> I have a plant started from a seed from a sack of brick weed.. It 2 months old now,, sitting in my kitchen window.. I was hoping to yield about 2lbs.. Is there anyway to increase this?
> ...


 *USE BRAWNDO!!!...*

*It's got ELECTROLYTES...!!!!
* 
[youtube]y0O7_3o3BrI[/youtube]

​


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## flipsidesw (Sep 19, 2009)

Go Away!!! Beatin''!!!


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## NewGrowth (Sep 19, 2009)

I have a bunch of brick weeds seeds, I'm moving again . . . . they are putting up notices about the smell. I should have much more space after this move and then I can start the Brick #1 breeding project


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## GypsyBush (Sep 20, 2009)

Gotta question Bro...

If my plant has thirps, and I stick in the freezer...

What dies first? thirp or plant???

Do you have any idea?


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## flipsidesw (Sep 20, 2009)

I know cuttings can last 2 weeks in the fridge before health declines... Dont know about the freezer tho..


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## 123petey999 (Sep 20, 2009)

hello people how do i use a NFT setup thanks


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## NewGrowth (Sep 20, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Gotta question Bro...
> 
> If my plant has thirps, and I stick in the freezer...
> 
> ...


I would think the plant bugs tend to stick around, I'm having spider mite problems myself recently. Try somoe pyrithrin


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## GypsyBush (Sep 20, 2009)

I'm gonna harvest what I go going...

And I am going to KILL every plant and clone in the house...

NUKE THE HOUSE 3 TIMES WITH SOME BADASS SHIT.. (I'll stay somewhere else for a week)..

And start winter with a PEST FREE GROW...

Yup.. that is a lot of fucking work...

And I will loose some EXCELLENT strains...

But I will not rage in war with bugs.... I refuse...

I'll just GET RID OF THEM 100% for sure...

THREE TOXIC BOMBS per room oughta kill everyone of the little fuckers...


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## flipsidesw (Sep 20, 2009)

Yo newgrowth are you one any other sites? Im completely done with this site....... im gonna pm you email maybe we can stay in contact... Im on Cannabis.com, icmag and a couple others.. Hope to see you there... laters


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## caddyluck (Sep 20, 2009)

yo NG! just got as computer at my house--kinda, I got a little HP MINI--so far so good, I don't need much outta this little guy but hey--I'm around more now LOL


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## NewGrowth (Sep 20, 2009)

caddyluck said:


> yo NG! just got as computer at my house--kinda, I got a little HP MINI--so far so good, I don't need much outta this little guy but hey--I'm around more now LOL


Is that a laptop? We almost found a perfect house and then the guy called back and said someone rented it already

When you get that PS3 hooked up let me know, cause I'm stopping by


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## NewGrowth (Sep 20, 2009)

flipsidesw said:


> Yo newgrowth are you one any other sites? Im completely done with this site....... im gonna pm you email maybe we can stay in contact... Im on Cannabis.com, icmag and a couple others.. Hope to see you there... laters


Nah I have enough reading here but I'll drop you a line bro


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## caddyluck (Sep 20, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Is that a laptop? We almost found a perfect house and then the guy called back and said someone rented it already
> 
> When you get that PS3 hooked up let me know, cause I'm stopping by


 
yeah, it's a little laptop, kinda cute ya know! I think it will serve it's purpose well. just need something to access the internet while away from work. The good news is I saved enogh for a PS3 but I'll have to wait till I get a couch! LOL sucks about that house but things will pan out for ya...you'll be back at it in no time


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## KingInDaCloset (Oct 31, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> I have reading a lot of confusion with hydroponics systems, nutrients,ect. It is often difficult to answer people's questions about hydroponics after a thread has been hijacked and false information has been posted.
> I thought I would start a thread where people could ask hydroponics questions. No question is dumb and if it is well I'll tell you. I will also not tolerate any myths or false information.
> I'm certainly no expert but I have been growing for years with hydroponics and have set-up and help manage grow operations in quite a few places. One of the best ways for me to continue to learn is to answer your questions so POST AWAY!!


If you're still taking posts I was wondering if you've had any pH issues when adding aeration stones to the nutrient reservoir. It seems that since I added aeration to my mother's bucket (about 3.5 gallons) the pH has dropped pretty quickly compared to without the stone. Is there a relation? I am changing the nutrients solution weekly. Keeping algae to a minimum...any thoughts? thanks! Happy gardening!


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## NewGrowth (Oct 31, 2009)

KingInDaCloset said:


> If you're still taking posts I was wondering if you've had any pH issues when adding aeration stones to the nutrient reservoir. It seems that since I added aeration to my mother's bucket (about 3.5 gallons) the pH has dropped pretty quickly compared to without the stone. Is there a relation? I am changing the nutrients solution weekly. Keeping algae to a minimum...any thoughts? thanks! Happy gardening!


How much of a pH drop are you experiencing? A large drop usually indicates a nutrient solution that is too strong IF the roots are healthy. I assume your roots are healthy because you just added another air-stone.

If the drop is gradual and minor it is probably just result of increased nutrient uptake by your plant. What nutrient brand are you using? Some have better pH buffers than others.


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## scooby83 (Oct 31, 2009)

hi i am useing aqua farms and canna nutrient my plants 2weeks into flower ands getting way to big its in a full size room its over 4ft well with the aqua farm it nearly 6ft how can i stop it gettin any bigger or im gonna have to make a hole in the ceiling to higher the light any more

also do you rate canna and what do you think of aqua farms


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## NewGrowth (Oct 31, 2009)

scooby83 said:


> hi i am useing aqua farms and canna nutrient my plants 2weeks into flower ands getting way to big its in a full size room its over 4ft well with the aqua farm it nearly 6ft how can i stop it gettin any bigger or im gonna have to make a hole in the ceiling to higher the light any more
> 
> also do you rate canna and what do you think of aqua farms


Aqua farms are great products from what I have seen and it sounds like your plants are quite the testament to that. I've never used Canna, I know Al B Fuct used that nutrient line and that mans threads taught me how to grow years ago.

You can't really stop your plants from growing the only thing you can do is tie them down and since they sound healthy and you are not to far into flower you can super-crop the main branches. A trellis works well to control height. I would try tying first and don't be afraid to break a few branches super-cropping works great. Depending on your strain you should be nearing the end of your stretch phase around 3-4 weeks horizontal growth will slow to a halt and your bud will start to fill out.

Share some pictures of your monster!


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## KingInDaCloset (Nov 1, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> How much of a pH drop are you experiencing? A large drop usually indicates a nutrient solution that is too strong IF the roots are healthy. I assume your roots are healthy because you just added another air-stone.
> 
> If the drop is gradual and minor it is probably just result of increased nutrient uptake by your plant. What nutrient brand are you using? Some have better pH buffers than others.


Hi Thanks for the quick reply! I am seeing a drop from 6.5 to 4.0 in a day or less. I adjust it up using Mad Farmer UP, usually a couple of eye droppers full does it. I'm using Fox farms grow big and a dash of Big Bloom. In almost 4 gallons I add 4 tsp Grow Big and a tsp of Big Bloom, about half the recommended amount. TDS when fresh is usually around 650ppm on a Hanna meter. I've been using this mix successfully for about 6 months and had no big pH issues, the only new change is the air stone and a little green algae. This may still not be a big issue but...I am wondering if a little green algae in my clone tray (which drains into the mother reservoir) is having an effect as well. Anyway thanks again for the in-put. Happy Gardening!


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## scooby83 (Nov 1, 2009)

heres some pix for you have upgraded to a 600w hps as my 400w was all burnt out


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## NewGrowth (Nov 1, 2009)

KingInDaCloset said:


> Hi Thanks for the quick reply! I am seeing a drop from 6.5 to 4.0 in a day or less. I adjust it up using Mad Farmer UP, usually a couple of eye droppers full does it. I'm using Fox farms grow big and a dash of Big Bloom. In almost 4 gallons I add 4 tsp Grow Big and a tsp of Big Bloom, about half the recommended amount. TDS when fresh is usually around 650ppm on a Hanna meter. I've been using this mix successfully for about 6 months and had no big pH issues, the only new change is the air stone and a little green algae. This may still not be a big issue but...I am wondering if a little green algae in my clone tray (which drains into the mother reservoir) is having an effect as well. Anyway thanks again for the in-put. Happy Gardening!


Sounds like you are running a pretty mild nutrient solution. The problem with organic nutrients and hydro is getting a good balance of beneficial microbes in the solution. I've not heard much success from people using fox-farm brand nutrients in hydroponics. Do your plants look healthy? Have you checked the calibration on your pH meter? 

The only other thing I can think of is trying a microbial inoculant and maybe a humic acid additive. Clean out your pumps filters too, sometimes crap can build up inside your pumps and cause pH issues. Such a large drop sounds like a bad pH meter though.


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## NewGrowth (Nov 1, 2009)

Looks great scooby! I would take that plant and bend down it as far as it will go without breaking it. Just anchor it to something with string, I like to train my mothers like that to spread out the branches and promote lateral growth.


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## scooby83 (Nov 1, 2009)

wont that effect the main bud growth of the plant by bending it


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## NewGrowth (Nov 1, 2009)

scooby83 said:


> wont that effect the main bud growth of the plant by bending it


Nope not at all, actually it will expose the side you have bent down to more light so you will get more lateral branching on one side. It will definitely increase your yield too. Tying it in a couple places is sometimes necessary to get it bent down far enough.

Trust me bend it down and you can lower your light a bit


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## scooby83 (Nov 1, 2009)

will do will post pix and pix of the knacked 400w bulb


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## scooby83 (Nov 2, 2009)

i went to check my plant 2 day and 1 leave from new growth right at the top of my plant was half droopy like soggy paper or somet 

read up on it and it say from over watering but im using a aqua farm that constantly feeds them pulled it out today and the roots have gone into the res boot the roots are bright white

here is some pix any help out there or any one who has had this problem

plus rep for help


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## NewGrowth (Nov 2, 2009)

Scooby your posts are huge man it takes me like 5min just to scroll down to the reply button on this little lap-top. 

 Don't worry your plant looks great they never grow 'perfectly' from what I can see your plant is super healthy, did you tie it down yet?

Make sure you post some big bud shots here in a few weeks


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## KingInDaCloset (Nov 2, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Sounds like you are running a pretty mild nutrient solution. The problem with organic nutrients and hydro is getting a good balance of beneficial microbes in the solution. I've not heard much success from people using fox-farm brand nutrients in hydroponics. Do your plants look healthy? Have you checked the calibration on your pH meter?
> 
> The only other thing I can think of is trying a microbial inoculant and maybe a humic acid additive. Clean out your pumps filters too, sometimes crap can build up inside your pumps and cause pH issues. Such a large drop sounds like a bad pH meter though.


Hi, Thanks for the response. I think you had it earlier when you suggested that the uptake of the plants was greater than I thought. pH meter is working, human operator is f*cking up. Looked in my note journal and saw I forgot to top off that reservoir. 
Big plan is to switch to Earth Juice soon for the micro blast & true organics. My plants have been happy as hell with the Fox Farms except for when I goof. 
Happy gardening! GrowIT!


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## NewGrowth (Nov 3, 2009)

KingInDaCloset said:


> Hi, Thanks for the response. I think you had it earlier when you suggested that the uptake of the plants was greater than I thought. pH meter is working, human operator is f*cking up. Looked in my note journal and saw I forgot to top off that reservoir.
> Big plan is to switch to Earth Juice soon for the micro blast & true organics. My plants have been happy as hell with the Fox Farms except for when I goof.
> Happy gardening! GrowIT!


Cool glad to hear it! I had heard good stuff about people using it in soil but no one in hydro. Earth Juice is good stuff I know people that like their Meta-K to bulk up flowers.


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## KiloBit (Nov 26, 2009)

hey bro I just found this...I gotta cut down on my smoking....

anyhow, I got a question but not sure if this thread is the place to post it....but seeing as we kinda know each other I figured I'd give it a shot....this is more to do with DWC and nutrients....the nutrients I am using are the General Hydroponics suite of nutes....they have a chart for measuring in reference to a US gallon ie. 5ml micro 7.5ml grow 2.5ml bloom etc.....do these need to be adjusted for DWC ?.....thinking these measurements are with hydroponics in mind....I do believe they are different grow types...


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## NewGrowth (Nov 26, 2009)

KiloBit said:


> hey bro I just found this...I gotta cut down on my smoking....
> 
> anyhow, I got a question but not sure if this thread is the place to post it....but seeing as we kinda know each other I figured I'd give it a shot....this is more to do with DWC and nutrients....the nutrients I am using are the General Hydroponics suite of nutes....they have a chart for measuring in reference to a US gallon ie. 5ml micro 7.5ml grow 2.5ml bloom etc.....do these need to be adjusted for DWC ?.....thinking these measurements are with hydroponics in mind....I do believe they are different grow types...


What's up Kilo? Good to see you man, I think you are well experienced and accomplished in DWC. GH is made for hydroponic systems as you can see by your beautiful buds and DWC is a "pure" hydroponic system. There is little to no difference in the rate of nutrient absorbtion between a recirculating hydro system and a good DWC system.

Have you tried GH Kool Bloom? Great product from GH


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## Consciousness420 (Dec 19, 2009)

Nice to find this Q/A thread.. 
NewGrowth, I noticed you have grown the white widow max strain so I wanted to ask you a question about that strain because I am at about the 7th week of flowering and I know you suggested that instead of going to merely the 8th week, one should let it go to about the 10th week. So I think I will do that, but what about the nute mix? Im using GH Flora series.. at this point, I have weened it off of the FloraGro and so now only using a two part mix of FloraMicro and FloraBloom (20mL/Gallon of Micro and 40mL/Gallon of Bloom).. do you think this is an ok mix - what do you think is the best amount of nutrients in mL/Gallon and at what ratio for the last few weeks of flowering this strain? Also, I've noticed that at this point, it looks as though the yield is decent BUT the bud itself does not seem to be terribly dense, I clipped off a sample and dried it for 3 days, and it's a bit airy with long pistils, like a chia pet bud. Any tips on this strain would be awesome.. Thanks man..


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## NewGrowth (Dec 19, 2009)

Consciousness420 said:


> Nice to find this Q/A thread..
> NewGrowth, I noticed you have grown the white widow max strain so I wanted to ask you a question about that strain because I am at about the 7th week of flowering and I know you suggested that instead of going to merely the 8th week, one should let it go to about the 10th week. So I think I will do that, but what about the nute mix? Im using GH Flora series.. at this point, I have weened it off of the FloraGro and so now only using a two part mix of FloraMicro and FloraBloom (20mL/Gallon of Micro and 40mL/Gallon of Bloom).. do you think this is an ok mix - what do you think is the best amount of nutrients in mL/Gallon and at what ratio for the last few weeks of flowering this strain? Also, I've noticed that at this point, it looks as though the yield is decent BUT the bud itself does not seem to be terribly dense, I clipped off a sample and dried it for 3 days, and it's a bit airy with long pistils, like a chia pet bud. Any tips on this strain would be awesome.. Thanks man..


I just copy and pasted this but I think it will answer your question pretty well. The Lucas formula is basically the perfect GH 3 part formula for growing pot and has been used by growers for years. That white widow sounds awesome, one of my favorite strains.

General Hydroponics Flora Series Feeding Strategy - Lucas Formula 

G-M-B (Grow-Micro-Bloom) 
0-5-10 - For Vegetative cycle (18/6) 
0-8-16 - For Flowering cycle (12/12) 

The numbers above indicate the number of milliliters (ml) of Flora Grow, Micro or Bloom formulas that I use in one gallon (US Liquid) of nutrients. 

You will notice I dont use any of the Flora &#8220;Grow&#8221; formula, do not need to, the Flora "Micro" provides plenty of Nitrogen. 

There are two ways to work with this formula: 

1. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected water solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. After adding back an amount of water equal to the amount of your reservoir capacity you should change the reservoir and put in fresh solution. 

2. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected 100% strength nutrient solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. Continue to use this nutrient solution without dumping the tank unless the PPM rises above acceptable levels. 

Between vegetative and flowering cycles you should dump your nutrients, then flush (possibly with Clearex) to remove salt buildups, then change to the other feeding program. Always shake your GH nutrient bottles before using them! 

For young plants, just transplanted into the hydro setup, give them 50% strength nutrient mix to prevent overfeeding them while their young. Gradually bring up the mix to full strength as they grow over the next few weeks or so. 

The lucas formula is normally intended for use with RO or near 0 PPM water. 

NOTE: The Lucas formula eliminates the need for Epsom salts to correct (Magnesium) Mg deficiencies in most normal feeding programs recommended by manufacturers. Cannabis needs a lot of Magnesium to thrive. 

The Flora Micro is providing the Nitrogen and the Magnesium in the proper balance, thus there is no need for the Grow formula and little or no room under the maximum acceptable ppm limit of 1600 @ 0.7 conversion. 

Calculated EC/TDS levels: 

EC microsiemen: 
0-4-8: 946 µS 
0-5-10: 1184 µS 
0-8-16: 1894 µS 

TDS @ 0.5 conversion: 
0-4-8 = 473 ppm 
0-5-10 = 592 ppm 
0-8-16 = 947 ppm 

TDS @ 0.7 conversion: 
0-4-8 = 663 ppm 
0-5-10 = 829 ppm 
0-8-16 = 1326 ppm 

Addback Calculator - (For Advanced Users) 

Say you were running the 0-8-16 formula, at 0.7 conversion with a 22 gallon res. When you first fill it up, your ppm will be around 1330. 

Now you have been growing for a week, and some of the water has been taken up by the plants, some has evaporated, and now your res is at 947 ppm. You need to get your ppm from 947 to 1330. Here is the equation: 

((target - current) / target) * 8 ml per gallon * res gallons = Flora Micro (ml) double this figure to get Flora Bloom (ml) 

Example: 

((1330 - 947) / 1330) * 8 * 22 
(383 / 1330) * 8 * 22 
0.3 * 8 * 22 = 53 ml Flora Micro 

53 ml Flora Micro, double that and you get 106 ml Flora Bloom. So 53 ml Flora Micro and 106 ml Flora Bloom to add back to your 22 gallon res to get you from 947 to 1330. 

Using Hard Water GH Micro 

I had been experimenting with using the Hard water Micro as a substitute for the normal Flora Micro, this to account for my hard 350 PPM water and the lack of a large enough RO filter at the time. It has worked well for me. I just kept my reservoir below 1150 PPM @ .5 conversion and its all good. 

One tip - do not pH down this stuff, the hard water micro will drop pH gradually over the next 24 hours, for example I mix up a batch, it is at like 6.2, the next day, its at 5.6-5.8 after running in the system for a while. If I pH downed that to 5.7 before putting it in the system, it ended up as low as 4.8-5.2 by the next day. 

My conclusion, the hard water micro was buffering the alkaline crud in my water, it just doesnot do it ASAP fast like the phosphoric acid.


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## Consciousness420 (Dec 20, 2009)

aha, perfect article - exactly the info I was looking for, thanks again!


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## KiloBit (Dec 20, 2009)

can't rep you again yet...but that was fecking great bro...as Mr. Burns would say, "Excellent!"


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## Crispyone (Dec 22, 2009)

Hi just found this thread and it great. i understand you dont do hydro now but please take a look at my girls. saturday i moved them from the tent to under the 1000hsp to fill out for the next couple weeks. they were under 400 of cfl's. theres 10 WW and 10 fem. BB im working with on my 1st grow with help from others. 

nutes WERE AN organic iguana juice. they werent doing well till i added hygrozine and superthrive to the resi which was 12 gallons. then the greened up and looked great. leaves were pointing straight up and just doing well. 

my resi was always nasty smelling with foam on the top. really hated it. 

they were in 4" rockwool with a couple inchs of hygroton. now there under 1000hsp, 18 of light, in 8" net pot with hygroton 2" from the top. 

New resi is 40 gallons. right after i made the new resi i fed them, then later in the day the resi turned smelly with the foam. SHIT. the whole place stunk real bad. 

i noticed right before i moved them a couple started showing signs of mag lock out. i panicked cause i let the ph go to the high 6's. im religious about my ph and always keep it between 5-6.3. one reason why i moved them. 

i found this thread and thought exactly what i needed was a simple nute. my ppm gauge didnt work with organic so that was hit or miss. 

sooo i dumped the shitty res rinsed for and hour, flushed the plants for about 3 gallons of ph water from the top. went to the hydro store and bought some ionic and h2o2. 

i mixed them up the correct amount of h2o2 for my resi size, ionic grow, the bottle wanted 4 tsp per gal. i gave it 54 tsp. 160 tsp would be full strength . my ppm was 300.

they showed signs of to much water so i let them go over a day without a feeding and tonight there worse. so here i am doing the one thing i said i would never do post pictures on the internet. 

i dont know if there over watered or under fed. my brain is drained from dealing with work and now this is keeping me up. these are netherlands seeds that i paid alot for so id hate to start over.

what 1st appeared to be mag lock out now is looking like burn to me but the ppm is low 400's now. But are they starving? plants are 3 weeks into my so called veg and 5 weeks from seeds. all 20 of these seeds popped in less then 24 hours after sitting in my desk for 2 years. 

just remembered i added AN cal mag when they 1st showed what i thought was mag def. 


so if i missed something lmk

thanks so much and boy do i hope someone is reading this lol. 

crispy


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## NewGrowth (Dec 23, 2009)

Crispyone said:


> Hi just found this thread and it great. i understand you dont do hydro now but please take a look at my girls. saturday i moved them from the tent to under the 1000hsp to fill out for the next couple weeks. they were under 400 of cfl's. theres 10 WW and 10 fem. BB im working with on my 1st grow with help from others.
> 
> nutes WERE AN organic iguana juice. they werent doing well till i added hygrozine and superthrive to the resi which was 12 gallons. then the greened up and looked great. leaves were pointing straight up and just doing well.
> 
> my resi was always nasty smelling with foam on the top. really hated it.


Well for a bit there I was messing with organics but it was just too damn messy. I'm still a hydro guy though, I grow in coco-coir now. Still dabble in organics though. 



> they were in 4" rockwool with a couple inchs of hygroton. now there under 1000hsp, 18 of light, in 8" net pot with hygroton 2" from the top.
> 
> New resi is 40 gallons. right after i made the new resi i fed them, then later in the day the resi turned smelly with the foam. SHIT. the whole place stunk real bad.


I assume this is a flood table? Could not tell from your pics . . .



> i noticed right before i moved them a couple started showing signs of mag lock out. i panicked cause i let the ph go to the high 6's. im religious about my ph and always keep it between 5-6.3. one reason why i moved them.


I don't think it a mag problem, root-zone problems can cause yellowing like this, especially when old roots are dying off and the plant is trying to regenerate new roots to survive. 



> i found this thread and thought exactly what i needed was a simple nute. my ppm gauge didnt work with organic so that was hit or miss.
> 
> sooo i dumped the shitty res rinsed for and hour, flushed the plants for about 3 gallons of ph water from the top. went to the hydro store and bought some ionic and h2o2.
> 
> i mixed them up the correct amount of h2o2 for my resi size, ionic grow, the bottle wanted 4 tsp per gal. i gave it 54 tsp. 160 tsp would be full strength . my ppm was 300


Not enough Ionic for your size plants, I like to measure in ml it is just easier for me. 10ml/gal is half dose and what your should be running along with a bit of superthrive to help with the stress.



> they showed signs of to much water so i let them go over a day without a feeding and tonight there worse. so here i am doing the one thing i said i would never do post pictures on the internet.
> 
> i dont know if there over watered or under fed. my brain is drained from dealing with work and now this is keeping me up. these are netherlands seeds that i paid alot for so id hate to start over.


First step, calm down don't try to overdo it. Your plants don't look too bad, they are DEFINITELY overwatered. I think the other symptoms you are seeing (yellow leaves) are also being caused by overwatering. How often are you flooding your table? Rockwool can hold a lot of water so being so small they may only need to be fed every other day. You do however have to be sure that when they are watered they receive the correct amount of nutrients. Bump up you Ionic grow to 10ml/gal, add some superthrive, and flood less often. They will not bounce back right away and the damaged foliage may die totally but if it is showing healthy green new growth in a few days you are on the right track.



> what 1st appeared to be mag lock out now is looking like burn to me but the ppm is low 400's now. But are they starving? plants are 3 weeks into my so called veg and 5 weeks from seeds. all 20 of these seeds popped in less then 24 hours after sitting in my desk for 2 years.


I think you can pull them back just be patient . . .



> just remembered i added AN cal mag when they 1st showed what i thought was mag def.
> 
> 
> so if i missed something lmk
> ...


The cal-mag is fine just be sure to use a little less Ionic Grow if your Cal-Mag also has some nitrogen. For example the Cal-Mag I use is 2-0-0.


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## Crispyone (Dec 23, 2009)

great thank you so much. ill fix the nutes with 10ml per gallon. 

ill let them sit for a couple days 1st to dry out ???

yes a flood table. 

i cant believe how clean my resi looks. looks like drinking water  compaired to what it was like .

when i transplanted them the roots were beautiful looking. nice and hairy white roots. some broke off of each plant when i lifted them from the tent to the new net pots. 

ill report back in a few days with an update and some new pix. 

thank you




NewGrowth said:


> Well for a bit there I was messing with organics but it was just too damn messy. I'm still a hydro guy though, I grow in coco-coir now. Still dabble in organics though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## NewGrowth (Dec 23, 2009)

Crispyone said:


> great thank you so much. ill fix the nutes with 10ml per gallon.
> 
> ill let them sit for a couple days 1st to dry out ???
> 
> ...



I would not wait a couple days go ahead and up your Ionic to 10ml/gal then flood once and wait a day. Check to see how wet your rockwool is the next day if it is still wet don't water. If you waited now they would just be nutrient deprived . . . .


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## jnuggs (Dec 23, 2009)

consciousness420 - 20mL micro and 40mL bloom per GALLON?? What is your e/c?? 
I use R/O water.. it's at 25 ppm. I add 5mL grow, 5mL micro, 5mL bloom, and my e/c is already up at like 1.3.
Newgrowth - is it possible that my GH Flora series are more potent than advertised? I have been wondering this for months now. I can't even feed following anything close to the "vigorous growth" schedule. And I feel they are vigorously growing (2 foot high, 3 foot wide..and almost too dense with foliage. drinking 1 1/2 - 2 gallons per day)


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## NewGrowth (Dec 23, 2009)

jnuggs said:


> consciousness420 - 20mL micro and 40mL bloom per GALLON?? What is your e/c??
> I use R/O water.. it's at 25 ppm. I add 5mL grow, 5mL micro, 5mL bloom, and my e/c is already up at like 1.3.
> Newgrowth - is it possible that my GH Flora series are more potent than advertised? I have been wondering this for months now. I can't even feed following anything close to the "vigorous growth" schedule. And I feel they are vigorously growing (2 foot high, 3 foot wide..and almost too dense with foliage. drinking 1 1/2 - 2 gallons per day)


You are feeding the right amount but did you see the Lucas formula? It tends to work better for cannabis and only used Micro and Bloom the whole way. I posted some info on the Lucas formula of the page before this if you want to check it out.


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## Crispyone (Dec 25, 2009)

Merry Christmas Everyone

Newgrowth we have a new problem it looks like.

they've had 2 feeding in 2 days at the new half straight nutes. they still look droppy and check out the pictures. a couple are real bad and i can see that its starting on a couple of others also. 
last photo shows 10 WW on left and 10 fem big buds on right.

EDIT
just checked the resi. 2 days ago at half nutes ppm was 523 and ph was 5.4. now before topping the resi off ppm was 625 and ph was 4.0, holy shit. last nite at 6pm they eat and i wasn't home to check ph so it could of been to low. normally my res rises in ph but now it went way down. 

i just topped off with 2 gallon and ppm is 603 and i brought the ph up to 5.8. i think the 1st time i checked the ppm i didnt leave the meter in the resi long enough. now i see i have to leave it in for a few minutes to settle on a reading. so i think that 523 ppm reading is low to start. 

can you specify when to take ppm reading? before top off or after? 

these ppm reading are including my water ppm which fluctuates between 85 - 200. when i filled resi it was at 86.

thanks again

crispy


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## NewGrowth (Dec 25, 2009)

Looks kind of like they are coming out of it, Keep running your H202. Don't worry too much about the ppm but watch your pH close especially right after you change your reservoir. Some nutrients take a day or so to stabilize in pH when in put into solution. If you keep seeing wild pH flux you may have a rootzone disease. The damaged foliage will never fully recover so keep an eye on that new growth!

Check your ppm before and after you top off because it can give you a good idea how much nutrient your plants are using. 

Merry Christmas!


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## Crispyone (Dec 29, 2009)

Newgrowth can you please check out my thread in the sick plant forum.
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/287292-can-us-alittle-help-please.html


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## Crispyone (Jan 5, 2010)

Newgrowth

plants are doing well except for one WW which is yellowing. im in the 1st week of flower and im switching to hard water ionic bloom in a few days. 

im still at 10ml per gallon when should i start to up the nutes and will i ever get close to full strength?

2 weeks ago i tryed upping the nutes and right away they showed signs of nute burn so i put it back to 10ml.

plants are 10-12 inchs now and so bushy its crazy. i cut 32 clones yesterday so hopefully they take. lol.

thanks for all your help it really paying off now.


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## resinraider (Jan 5, 2010)

i made an arocloner out of a 18gal tote... i have a 396gph pump and 10 sprayers... my clones will not root, none of my strains... out of 18 cuttings, im lucky to get 8 to root... i have a 5 week old cuttings in there still green and healthy but no roots... res temp at 23, pump 15 on/15 off.... small cfl above it... i dont wanna spend more $ on this, any tips???


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## NewGrowth (Jan 5, 2010)

Crispyone said:


> Newgrowth
> 
> plants are doing well except for one WW which is yellowing. im in the 1st week of flower and im switching to hard water ionic bloom in a few days.
> 
> ...


Looks great crispy! Glad everything is starting work out. With Ionic I hardly ever go above 10ml/g some strains can take 15ml and rarely 20ml. I think you are reading you plants well now 



resinraider said:


> i made an arocloner out of a 18gal tote... i have a 396gph pump and 10 sprayers... my clones will not root, none of my strains... out of 18 cuttings, im lucky to get 8 to root... i have a 5 week old cuttings in there still green and healthy but no roots... res temp at 23, pump 15 on/15 off.... small cfl above it... i dont wanna spend more $ on this, any tips???


Are you using anything beside water in your cloner?

Aero cloners also have to be VERY clean to work well, make sure you are cleaning it out really well with bleach and hot water before your use it.

Also running a mild nutrient seems to help a lot, I run a product called "Kick Start" in my ez-cloner.


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## resinraider (Jan 5, 2010)

NewGrowth said:


> Looks great crispy! Glad everything is starting work out. With Ionic I hardly ever go above 10ml/g some strains can take 15ml and rarely 20ml. I think you are reading you plants well now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ya I run a kelp based nute called jumpstart. I change the water every week and wipe it out but haven't disinfected it. Well I guess ill try that. If u can think of anything else jus PM me. Do u think it could jus be a shitty cloning strain? I've found the 1s that have rooted ezer r 1s that were cut from flowered plants but I'm trying to keep moms around. I'm workin with sum new strains now that I have. Not yet cloned. The strains r, TGAs 3D, GHSs church and big bang, and twista 108 from ducthman. Have u had any cloning experience on these?


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## NewGrowth (Jan 5, 2010)

resinraider said:


> Ya I run a kelp based nute called jumpstart. I change the water every week and wipe it out but haven't disinfected it. Well I guess ill try that. If u can think of anything else jus PM me. Do u think it could jus be a shitty cloning strain? I've found the 1s that have rooted ezer r 1s that were cut from flowered plants but I'm trying to keep moms around. I'm workin with sum new strains now that I have. Not yet cloned. The strains r, TGAs 3D, GHSs church and big bang, and twista 108 from ducthman. Have u had any cloning experience on these?


I've never cloned any of those in the ez cloner, seems like some strains just root faster than others though.


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## cruzer101 (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi New Growth,

I want to start like a hempy grow on the bottom of my cab and heard of schults aquatic soil. 
After searching I was pointed to this journal I havent read the whole thing but have you used it?


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## NewGrowth (Feb 7, 2010)

cruzer101 said:


> Hi New Growth,
> 
> I want to start like a hempy grow on the bottom of my cab and heard of schults aquatic soil.
> After searching I was pointed to this journal I havent read the whole thing but have you used it?


No I've never used that, but before we could get Foxfarms, Gen Hydro, ect Sunshine #4, or Miracle Grow potting mix with Shults Orchid bloom was what a lot of people were using. I would not be surprised if it is a great medium.

It is composed of this stuff:
Arcillite - baked montmorillonite clay, sold as Turface, Schultz Aquatic Soil, and other products. Arcillite has an attractive reddish color that darkens to brown when wet. It has high nutrient-retention properties, and is very stable and long-lasting.


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## mightyboogie (Feb 20, 2010)

hi
i sprouted some LSD seeds in rockwool cubes.there about 2 3 weeks old.some of them have brows spots on the leaves.what do you think might be problem?

thanks























...sorry for the huge picture


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## NewGrowth (Feb 20, 2010)

Hey Mighty, 
Are you feeding them any nutrients? Rockwool is also easy to over-saturate make sure you are letting it dry a bit too.


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## mightyboogie (Feb 20, 2010)

thanks.no nutes. just root stimulator.


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## cruzer101 (Feb 20, 2010)

Got one for ya New Growth,
I am in 7th week flower on some Purple Kush. They are on FF nutes and I want to add GH Kool bloom the last couple weeks here. You think I would be alright or have issues with micro nutrients. Maybe better off not adding it at all. whadaya think?


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## NewGrowth (Feb 20, 2010)

mightyboogie said:


> thanks.no nutes. just root stimulator.


Ok be careful not to overwater and I would recommend you start some mild nutrients. Rockwool contains no nutrients and your seedlings are going to need a little something to get them going.



cruzer101 said:


> Got one for ya New Growth,
> I am in 7th week flower on some Purple Kush. They are on FF nutes and I want to add GH Kool bloom the last couple weeks here. You think I would be alright or have issues with micro nutrients. Maybe better off not adding it at all. whadaya think?


Some people really like Kool Bloom and I think it definitely adds weight. The only problem I've seen is that if the plants are not flushed really well after it makes the buds kind of harsh to smoke.

I personally like Humboldt's Own Gravity, I can get better results without heavy P-K Bloom boosters.


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## mightyboogie (Feb 21, 2010)

thanks! always find help here


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## cruzer101 (Feb 22, 2010)

Ya know, the last time I used Kool bloom i did taste nutes.
Thanks for reminding me. Gravity huh? gonna check it out.


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## cadence (Feb 24, 2010)

Here is a question. I would love some input.

I am starting a medical grow. 1000 hps for flower and 400mh for veg.

I will be going DWC for flower using 6 inch netpots in the 5gallon buckets (6 of them flowering).

I am thinking about veggin in a flood and drain using small rockwool cubes in hydroton in 6" net pots. That way when they are done vegging in the Flood tray I can just drop them into the tops of ready to go DWC buckets.

Does that sound like a plan? I was also thinking maybe doing a drip for the veg, but I don't want to worry about clogging etc.. so I think I am going to go with flood and drain...

My main concern is the easy transfer from veg to flowering buckets.

using the 6" netpots to veg will make it easy to drop straight into the DWC buckets...

What ya think? Also.. Kudos on this thread!

peace


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## NewGrowth (Feb 25, 2010)

cadence said:


> Here is a question. I would love some input.
> 
> I am starting a medical grow. 1000 hps for flower and 400mh for veg.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a great idea man!


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## mightyboogie (Mar 13, 2010)

hi newgrowth
im using an aeroflo system with RO water and nutrients from GH.(soft water micro).do you think i need a calcium supplement or just the fact that im using soft water micro will do it?
thanks


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## NewGrowth (Mar 13, 2010)

mightyboogie said:


> hi newgrowth
> im using an aeroflo system with RO water and nutrients from GH.(soft water micro).do you think i need a calcium supplement or just the fact that im using soft water micro will do it?
> thanks


You should be fine, GH micro contains plenty of calcium and the Lucas formula alone has been working for YEARS.


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## $weet james jones (Mar 15, 2010)

hey dude...im about to move from dirt to a ebb n grow type setup. this is the only kit availble where im at..
my question is about the control box.
i havent seen one like this before? whats the diff between this and the small expensive ones ya see on here?
i plan on growing 12 plants......any help much appreciated.....


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## GYO (Mar 20, 2010)

first off i want to thank you for starting this thread. i've been researching this topic for months now and im interested in starting a fog\DWC combo system similar to the one i've sen you run. im am new to hydroponics and was wondering if this configuration could sustain the flowering process and what percentage of your tote filled water/air? any other helpful suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 20, 2010)

GYO said:


> first off i want to thank you for starting this thread. i've been researching this topic for months now and im interested in starting a fog\DWC combo system similar to the one i've sen you run. im am new to hydroponics and was wondering if this configuration could sustain the flowering process and what percentage of your tote filled water/air? any other helpful suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Hey GYO, the fog works great but it will not support a full sized plant. My tubes were about half full when I was using the foggers as opposed to just DWC where I leave a 3-6" air-space.

When the plants are smaller the water height has to be higher up so the roots don't dry out.

Make sure you get the teflon coated fogger discs and give them a quick wipe when you change out your reservoir because gunk will build up on them over time. 

You can see my thread "How to Cheat on a High School Math Test" for full build instructions and more info on my long retired fog tubs.


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## Mr. Optimo (Mar 21, 2010)

new growth, what is the cause of leaves cupping? im in week 4 of veg and my leaves at the top of my plants are cupped, curling upwards along the middle veins. also they are dark green and feel thin.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 21, 2010)

Mr. Optimo said:


> new growth, what is the cause of leaves cupping? im in week 4 of veg and my leaves at the top of my plants are cupped, curling upwards along the middle veins. also they are dark green and feel thin.


Upwards can indicate heat stress but curling can also indicate pH issues got any pics?


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## doniawon (Mar 23, 2010)

I gettin that kinda thing too. I think chem burn so i flushed and also i plan on going 1/4 strength nutes and a little more flora red, before the switch to bloom


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## Xcon (Nov 10, 2010)

What's up guys!!! I have a few soil grows under my belt and I'm making the jump to hydro. I'm making a flood and drain table out of an 8" deep pvc tub and I have a few questions....

I've decided to go with coir because of it's low ph and rave reviews but I'm confused as to what kind of pots to use. I'll be putting the pots on a coir mat so I want the roots to grow down, not out the sides like a net pot. Can I just cut out the bottoms of some pots I already have? Will the coco mat eliminate the need for large (5gal) pots? (I will be flowering in this tray)

I see a lot of people filling the empty spaces in their tables with hydroton (or expanded clay?), what purpose does this serve other than added stability? Will it inhibit algae growth on top of my coco mat? How deep should it be?

I apologize if these questions have been asked already, I've done a lot of research and 99% of the info I pull up on flood tables is all about how to build and run them without getting into the specifics of each medium and their drawbacks/unique properties and applied solutions. 

+Thanks!!!


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## NewGrowth (Feb 12, 2011)

Looks like I neglected this thread a bit sorry guys. I would not fill the flood table with hydroton it's heavy and a waste IMO. Just use block covers or B&W poly to cover the top of the table if algae is a problem.


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## doniawon (Feb 15, 2011)

welcome back NG.. how's the garden?


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## NewGrowth (Feb 15, 2011)

Doing well, vertical lighting kicks ass


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## killa killa kk (Feb 15, 2011)

I am looking to set up a flood and drain table under a 400 watt MH to use for veg and a 9 site bucket system for a flower room. Do you see any issues transferring the plants from one to the other? (ive never done hydro before)


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## NewGrowth (Feb 15, 2011)

killa killa kk said:


> I am looking to set up a flood and drain table under a 400 watt MH to use for veg and a 9 site bucket system for a flower room. Do you see any issues transferring the plants from one to the other? (ive never done hydro before)


Sounds like a great plan I was going to set that up here myself. I use 4x6x6 rockwool to veg under 600w. For flower they would get transplanted into the bucket system filled with hydroton.


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## killa killa kk (Feb 15, 2011)

What size buckets do you use in your ebb and flow system. I have been doing alot of reading and plan on making the controller unit myself but im thinking 5 gallon buckets might be a little too big and ill go through way too much nutrients so I was gonna use 3 gallon bucket inside another 3 gallon black bucket..Does that work?


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## NewGrowth (Feb 15, 2011)

Bucket size can be any you want, I use 5gal but grow trees. I would just use the size bucket that works best for your planned plant size. 3gal is pretty standard though.


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## killa killa kk (Feb 16, 2011)

Thank you for all the unlimited knowledge on this thread. Like I was asking before regarding a 10 site bucket system and a flood and drain table my plan is to have 5 plants in veg on the flood and drain and 10 plants in the buckets( 2 rows of 5) What kind of veg and harvest schedule is gonna be needed if I want to be fully stocked? My medical limit is 15 in WA so I wanna do my maximum with the best yield in the most efficient way.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 16, 2011)

Depend on the strain, how much you smoke, and how often you want to harvest. For example if you had an 8 week strain you could harvest every 10weeks or so adding about 2 weeks for veg. Or you could stagger plants in three or four at a time every couple weeks so that you harvest a few plants every three weeks and replace them with new plants. A perpetual system is going to be more work though.


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## anewhydrogrower (Feb 22, 2011)

I am VERY new, first grow. I am using Hydroponics. I put 6 seeds in moist paper towel, then in ziplock bag and dark warm place. Only 1 'popped'.(like 1/4" sprout)

What does that mean are the other seeds bad? (like 96 hours total)

if I put the 1/4" sprout into like a 1" rockwool I am afraid it will break, I have some little like 1/4 rockwool....should I put it in the little Hydroponics system basket and put some of those in it and some of the clay pellets on top? Or do I need to do something else before I put it into the Hydro system.

Thanks


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## sdwgoblue (Feb 22, 2011)

Hello,
Trying to get as much feed back as possible on the watering schdl on a 3x4 flood table. I am new to the whole thing and have heard many answers on this topic. The girls (6) where started from seed and now have a root structure and has been potted with hydroton. I started the first flood 30mins after the cfls came on, (i am running 200w bright wing on the ceiling, and T5 around the walls) and the second flood 2 hours before the lights go out. I am running 18 on 6 off. I noticed the leaves to be a bit dry after the first day and increased to a 3rd flood 7 hrs in, and still showing signs of dryness after the second day. My PH is 6.3 and tds 450. Using fox farm nuts. Is it possible the girls need 4 floods at such a early stage? Room temp is 75f and 42% humidity. All feedback would be appreciated.


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## Stoner Smurf (Feb 22, 2011)

Why do you refuse to call yourself an expert? If you have truly been growing for years, well then that makes you an expert. Why such modesty in the growing community. Most master growers will not refer to themselves as such, and if one does they get ripped apart on forums like these. If you've been growing for years and are a master grower why not call yourself as such?

Edit: For the record I am no expert. But if I were... Every expert grower I know is so modest.


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## Stonetech (Feb 22, 2011)

NewGrowth said:


> Doing well, vertical lighting kicks ass


Hey NG, I'm trying vert for my first time and i got a question. How high do you keep your light in relation to your canopy? I think I kept my light too low in flower, didn't get any stretch at all. The center of my bulb was about level with the tops of the plants, the buds (even the lower ones) are nice an compact, but no stretch. Do you raise your light to encourage stretch? if so by how much and at what stage?

Thanks in advance.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 22, 2011)

anewhydrogrower said:


> I am VERY new, first grow. I am using Hydroponics. I put 6 seeds in moist paper towel, then in ziplock bag and dark warm place. Only 1 'popped'.(like 1/4" sprout)
> 
> What does that mean are the other seeds bad? (like 96 hours total)
> 
> ...


 The other seeds may just be old I would give them a little longer and if they don't pop try gently cracking the seed coat so it splits along the seam sometimes this will make old seeds sprout. 

I'm not a big fan of the paper towel system for the reason you mentioned. Just pull the rockwool cube apart gently and place your sprouted seed in the center.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 22, 2011)

sdwgoblue said:


> Hello,
> Trying to get as much feed back as possible on the watering schdl on a 3x4 flood table. I am new to the whole thing and have heard many answers on this topic. The girls (6) where started from seed and now have a root structure and has been potted with hydroton. I started the first flood 30mins after the cfls came on, (i am running 200w bright wing on the ceiling, and T5 around the walls) and the second flood 2 hours before the lights go out. I am running 18 on 6 off. I noticed the leaves to be a bit dry after the first day and increased to a 3rd flood 7 hrs in, and still showing signs of dryness after the second day. My PH is 6.3 and tds 450. Using fox farm nuts. Is it possible the girls need 4 floods at such a early stage? Room temp is 75f and 42% humidity. All feedback would be appreciated.


 Not sure what you mean by the leaves being dry? Are they crispy and dead? This is generally a sign of salt build up. Hydroton can be flooded more often than more absorbabt media. If you are getting droopy leaves go ahead and increase your food interval but also make sure you're getting sufficient drainage.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 23, 2011)

Stoner Smurf said:


> Why do you refuse to call yourself an expert? If you have truly been growing for years, well then that makes you an expert. Why such modesty in the growing community. Most master growers will not refer to themselves as such, and if one does they get ripped apart on forums like these. If you've been growing for years and are a master grower why not call yourself as such?
> 
> Edit: For the record I am no expert. But if I were... Every expert grower I know is so modest.


I know a few guys who tell me they're master growers all the time. They grow mediocre weed inefficiently but don't tell them otherwise!
I would say ego can be a huge enemy to your garden, the plants simply do not care how 'badass' you think you are  Cannabis cultivation has humbled me over the years, just when you think everything is perfect something goes wrong. I would say that when something goes wrong, 90% chance I caused it. If I get a big head it's hard to see the problem and correct it in time. In short the more I learn about cannabis the more I realize I know very little.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 23, 2011)

Stonetech said:


> Hey NG, I'm trying vert for my first time and i got a question. How high do you keep your light in relation to your canopy? I think I kept my light too low in flower, didn't get any stretch at all. The center of my bulb was about level with the tops of the plants, the buds (even the lower ones) are nice an compact, but no stretch. Do you raise your light to encourage stretch? if so by how much and at what stage?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I think you will really like vertical lighting! Bulb placement can be tricky, I try to drop them down into the canopy and any tops that get too tall I just break over. The main issue is light burn, there is literally a 6" space between having the bulb to far or too close. The goal with this style of lighting is to have the light completely surrounded by plant so that no light is wasted.
As far as stretch goes I try to limit it and much as possible, raising the light above the cannopy would probably cause a little stretch but I've seen better yields when the plants stay bushy and compact. It's hard to explain the placement in words so I'll post a few pictures of a vertical grow we recently started setting up. Pics shortly . . .


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## eli1 (Feb 23, 2011)

Hey, whats up? I think I have a rather dumb question. Is it bad to smoke cigs around the plants?


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## eli1 (Feb 23, 2011)

[video]http://iphone.dailymotion.com/video/k78Cqc9qawZYfM1X1TP[/video]

Those r me babies. They rnt much but tell me what u think. The ppm is 950 temp 77 and rh around high 35.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 23, 2011)

Eli1 I'm sure cigarettes are not good for the plants but I doubt you would notice an effect. 
Your plants look a bit nutrient burned, I think your clone
may have died as well. Rockwool can be a little tricky to clone in be sure not To overwet it. Also make sure you don't squeeze it either just shake it out to remove excess moisture. Good luck mang


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## NewGrowth (Feb 24, 2011)

Here is the picture I promised you can see the light placement in relation to the canopy.View attachment 1460527


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## Stonetech (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks for the help. +rep. 

So you never raised it higher early in flower to encourage stretch? Not that your plants look like they needed any encouragement LOL. I guess i did something else to stunt its growth. Not surprising really, everything i'm doin right now is new too me except the strain. Hopefully soon there will be a vert section at riu.


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## highonbud (Feb 24, 2011)

Growing Aero how long is the mist cycle supposed to be? 15on 15off?


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## NewGrowth (Feb 25, 2011)

I like the long mist cycle you mentioned but it's more dependent on how much water stays in your system or how fast/slow it drains. Early on with my wall experiment I misted more often; when the plants and roots got bigger they tended to grow down into the drains, so it took longer to completely drain. You can buy a decent adjustable cycle timer from CAP it's called the ART-Dne. I've got a genesis high pressure aerosystem that only comes on for 3 sec every 20min so cycle time is also dependent on the type of aero system you're using.
Stonetech-
Nope I just adjust the lights in relation to the plants and vice versa. There is not much room to move around in there, raising it above the plants will just waste it in a vertical set-up. Best luck to you!


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## 4 the love of ganja (Feb 25, 2011)

this is a little off subject but i am fairly new to all this but i have been thinking about purchasing an aeroponic system. i have done alot of research and im debating on which on would be better for me i am in a 4x4 closet with a 400 watt hps.

botanicare aeroponic system
3x3 1 tray with 9 5" pots 

or C.A.P 8dwc hydroponic aeroponic system
4"x26"x16" with 8 3.75" pots

any information would be very helpful..


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## NewGrowth (Feb 25, 2011)

Cap makes good products, I've heard that the botanicare power cloner is quite leaky too. Botanicare does have a gooD line of other products but I'm not sure about the unit you mentioned. I'm sure it's possible to grow fantastic hydro with either.


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## anewhydrogrower (Feb 28, 2011)

When a website gives a yield "Yield : up to 15.5 ounces / 400 grams m2" I know that is only appx, but is that "dry weight'?

What can you do with male plants if you don't want to produce more seeds with a female plant? Do they have anything in their leaves that you can use or do you just toss them? I understand male plants often have a higher level of THC, but what good is it if you can't use the plant?


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## Energi2DmaxX (Feb 28, 2011)

First Post... Long time reader.... 

100% organics in hydroponic systems, I get mixed thoughts and opinions on the subject, some say its best of both worlds and some say its a nightmare slime city, do to aeration of nutrients in the res... throwing off the fungi to bacteria ratio and making ph adjustments a nightmare?... I know most folks that use hydroponics use salt based "chemicals" or a mix of chemicals and bio derived nutrients, nothing wrong with other non organic nutrients, just would like to go the natural route

I would like to get going on a flood and drain system in hydroton, and go 100% organic with all the beneficial microbes, strengths plants immune system and make nutrients uptake more efficient.

Do you think I might run into these problems, erratic PH fluctuation, Microbial overload, nutrient lockout, rancid smells, clogged pump ect..... I was planing on using Blue Mountain Organic Nutrients, <---- if that makes a diffrence, price is great and a few folks say they love the stuff.

If it did cause some problems my only thoughts were to time the duration of oxygenating the solution (only when flood cycle start) in the Rez or leave it stagnant as roots get amble amount of oxygen in the hydroton. The Rez will be light tight and chilled with frozen water bottles to around 65f and be made out of portable insulated cooler.

Any input and feed back from you or any experienced member would be great....thanks, keep it safe, fun and enjoy!!


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## NewGrowth (Feb 28, 2011)

anewhydrogrower said:


> When a website gives a yield "Yield : up to 15.5 ounces / 400 grams m2" I know that is only appx, but is that "dry weight'?
> 
> What can you do with male plants if you don't want to produce more seeds with a female plant? Do they have anything in their leaves that you can use or do you just toss them? I understand male plants often have a higher level of THC, but what good is it if you can't use the plant?


I think seed companies are talking about the yield indoors with a well managed canopy, and yes this should be dry weight. The yields claimed are often 'master grower' status or someone who has grown cannabis long enough to understand how to properly prune and manage a canopy. 

Male plants are best for pollen  You can extract some THC from them by drying out the plant matter grinding it up and soaking it in Iso Alcohol. Strain out the plant matter and evaporate the alcohol you'll be left with a low grade hash oil that I would not recommend smoking. The oil can be eaten (tastes horrible) but I would recommend using it topically for sores, acne, ect. The extraction is only worth it if you have a good amount of pant matter or are really hard up


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## NewGrowth (Feb 28, 2011)

Energi2DmaxX said:


> First Post... Long time reader....
> 
> 100% organics in hydroponic systems, I get mixed thoughts and opinions on the subject, some say its best of both worlds and some say its a nightmare slime city, do to aeration of nutrients in the res... throwing off the fungi to bacteria ratio and making ph adjustments a nightmare?... I know most folks that use hydroponics use salt based "chemicals" or a mix of chemicals and bio derived nutrients, nothing wrong with other non organic nutrients, just would like to go the natural route
> 
> ...


I think organic hydroponics is rather silly but if you are tempted to go for it choose your medium well.. Hydroton is probably a poor medium choice for 'organic hydro', I would try CoCo coir or a peat based mix. You want a medium with good porosity and the ability to support a good population of microbes. Recirculating hydroponics and organics have no place unless you like unreliable set-ups and funky smells. Earthworm casting are also a staple they will provide you with an army of nematodes to eat the baddies, you can make a tea by steeping the castings in a 5gal bucket of water with 2-3ml molasses and then aerating for 12-24hrs. Keep everything aerated and watch for funky smells should smell like fresh soil or compost.
Good luck! 
PS- Earthworm casting tea worked really well in my ez-cloner


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## Energi2DmaxX (Feb 28, 2011)

NewGrowth said:


> I think organic hydroponics is rather silly but if you are tempted to go for it choose your medium well.. Hydroton is probably a poor medium choice for 'organic hydro', I would try CoCo coir or a peat based mix. You want a medium with good porosity and the ability to support a good population of microbes. Recirculating hydroponics and organics have no place unless you like unreliable set-ups and funky smells. Earthworm casting are also a staple they will provide you with an army of nematodes to eat the baddies, you can make a tea by steeping the castings in a 5gal bucket of water with 2-3ml molasses and then aerating for 12-24hrs. Keep everything aerated and watch for funky smells should smell like fresh soil or compost.
> Good luck!
> PS- Earthworm casting tea worked really well in my ez-cloner



Thanks for the insight, seen Stinkbud use a NFT or Areo for his organics seems he does well, for simplicity i should go with soiless mix with added guano and castings and use organics in buckets, that way when weather and coverage in my favor i could put plants outside to get real light, Boost my results but could bring unwanted pest into my tent, Catch 22 i suppose, all said...until i get a few grows under my belt and get a good feel for what I am doing, going to keep it simple and frugal, thank you again NewGrowth


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## anewhydrogrower (Mar 1, 2011)

[FONT=&quot]I looked at a "kit" http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/product.php?xProd=2&xSec=54&jssCart=a13fc67cb532827ce4e6b17d1ccfa9be the price seemed a little high so I did not go this route, but I notice they have a "Veg light" and a "Bloom light" on at the same time, I emailed them to see if this was correct or if this was just the pic, they said it was correct, so I have set up my system in the same manner. 

I have been at this for a week but I am wondering if the "Bloom light" should really be turned on now??[/FONT]


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## NewGrowth (Mar 1, 2011)

Looks like stealth hydro is still successfully ripping people off.  what they're selling on their website for $189 I could build for $30. Their lighting is 'dual spectrum' AKA a warm CFL and cool white CFL . You should be able to run both lights through bloom
and veg. Take note of what they give you in the kit I assume even if you bought all those components from a retailer it would still cost you $50 or less.


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## anewhydrogrower (Mar 1, 2011)

Thanks, I found it for $36 on Ebay without the lights!! Are you familiar with this company http://theseedsstore.co.uk/cannabis.html I can get 60 female seeds for $69, sounds to good to be true, but to cheap not to try!
60 FEMINIZED MARIJUANA SEEDS, Made up of 20 White Widow, 20 Himalayan Gold, 20 Super Silver Haze


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## NewGrowth (Mar 1, 2011)

guess my estimate was pretty close then. Not sure about that seed company, I look for reputable breeders when seed shopping. If you want cheap quality go with Nirvana, you'll get a little souvenier from them too. Attitude has a good selection and seem to be reliable as well.


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## anewhydrogrower (Mar 1, 2011)

and that guy on Ebay made a profit!! So you were right on!


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## suspendedinair (Mar 1, 2011)

Please help!!! These are about a month old. They started sagging 2 days ago they will perk up alittle during the day but for the most part this is what they look like. I am using Botanicare PureBlend ProGrow half strength. Had a problem with mg deficiency used one tsp per gallon. I'm using 3 gallons of water with a ph of 5.5, 2 airstones on a 600 dual pump and a 150w hps. temps usually stay around 80. Any help would be great. Thanks


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## anewhydrogrower (Mar 2, 2011)

I need some food!! I read most of your posts in this thread and learned a lot. I think I recall you saying don't use organic food in hydroponics?

When I bought my system, they through in a bag of 'powder' food in a ziplock bag, but no instructions....so I am not sure what I have, my plants are about 2" now, nice leaves. Since this is my first grow, i was thinking of maybe something to help me in the "Bloom" phase as well.

I don't really have a Hydro store near me, is there something from Home Depot? or what is the cheapest place online (in the USA) to buy supplies? I also order a lot off of Amazon they have a big selection. What do you think of BC Boost? http://www.amazon.com/Technaflora-BC-Boost-1L/dp/B0002JU8OC/ref=pd_sim_k_2


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## NewGrowth (Mar 2, 2011)

suspendedinair said:


> View attachment 1470362View attachment 1470361View attachment 1470360
> Please help!!! These are about a month old. They started sagging 2 days ago they will perk up alittle during the day but for the most part this is what they look like. I am using Botanicare PureBlend ProGrow half strength. Had a problem with mg deficiency used one tsp per gallon. I'm using 3 gallons of water with a ph of 5.5, 2 airstones on a 600 dual pump and a 150w hps. temps usually stay around 80. Any help would be great. Thanks


 Try dropping your nutrient strength a little more Ca/Mg deficientcy can usually be solved by using tap water and allow the Ph to drift between 5.5-6.5. Roots look healthy though.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 2, 2011)

anewhydrogrower said:


> I need some food!! I read most of your posts in this thread and learned a lot. I think I recall you saying don't use organic food in hydroponics?
> 
> When I bought my system, they through in a bag of 'powder' food in a ziplock bag, but no instructions....so I am not sure what I have, my plants are about 2" now, nice leaves. Since this is my first grow, i was thinking of maybe something to help me in the "Bloom" phase as well.
> 
> I don't really have a Hydro store near me, is there something from Home Depot? or what is the cheapest place online (in the USA) to buy supplies? I also order a lot off of Amazon they have a big selection. What do you think of BC Boost? http://www.amazon.com/Technaflora-BC-Boost-1L/dp/B0002JU8OC/ref=pd_sim_k_2


 There have certainly been advancements in 'organic hydroponics' in the end the plants are still recieving the same basic minerals they get from a refined mineral nutrient. The whole point of water culture is to maximize uptake of nutrients, water, and oxygen to the root zone. With organics you have to depend on microorganisms to break down complex organic compounds into refined minerals the plants can use. I've also seen plenty of funky smells, clogged drip rings, slime, ect. If you are heart set on using Organics with water culture go for it. I prefer easilly dissolvable mineral nutrients that are clean and easy to flush from the medium/system. My goal when growing cannabis is to maximize potency and flavor. I prefer pot that tastes like pot so I don't use any sweeteners or flavor additives, just give it a nice flush and let it ripen nicely. This results in a very pure product, it does not taste like soil or additives, it does not crackle a pop just burns slow and even. The taste and smell tends to be specific to the strain (IE Skunk smells and tastes like skunk). Some people like the 'complex' taste of organic bud I prefer a cleaner taste and that is the main reason I grow hydroponically.
The powder you have sounds like a
mineral nutrient, BC Boost is part of their three part system and works great.
Ok rant over


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## suspendedinair (Mar 2, 2011)

Thanks for the help really hope i get some beautiful girls out of these.


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## T.riddle (Mar 2, 2011)

Hey im starting a DWC for my first hydro grow, I have most of what i need to do down but im a bit fuzzy in some aspects, Ive read that you need lower ppm and slowly increase the ppm from seedling up to week 5 of veg, can anyone give me a rough estimate of what ppm to start out at and how much/when to increase it as well as how to measure it? I alsowanted to know if there were any nutes that are mostly agreed upon to show the best results i was thinking of going with fox farm and following its feeding schedule


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## NewGrowth (Mar 2, 2011)

You need a ppm pen they cost about $35. PPM is just a general measurement guideline. Nutrient strength is more dependent on Conditions (ie light, co2, plant size,ect). I would not recommend foxfarm nutrients for DWC. Try a simple mineral nutrient its much easier to manage.


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## suspendedinair (Mar 2, 2011)

Great Advice!! About 24 hours after the other pics. When would you suggest is a good time to flower? I'm kind of impatient but want a decent yield. Correct me if i'm wrong but i believe this is a Indica strong strain...Again thanks for the help.


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## suspendedinair (Mar 3, 2011)

Ok i know i'm asking alot of questions but you seem to be the only one on here that's not arrogant and you know what you are talking about. Should i flush during veg cycle? If so how often, and what is the proper technique to flush? Also with the help you've given me they have grown an inch in about 36 hours. Thanks again.


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## mikeq (Mar 4, 2011)

Hello and thanks for helping everyone one on this thread. 
Does using H202 counteract the use of Voodoo Juice?
I am using advanced nutes + voodoo,bid bud and overdrive.
I dont think i have root rot (in week 5 of flowering now) but want to use a preventative.
I used it a little bit this round and am just thinking about what i want to do next round.
I change res (12gal) about once a week. Its a aero/DWC hybrid system.
thanks.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 5, 2011)

suspendedinair said:


> View attachment 1471946View attachment 1471945
> 
> Great Advice!! About 24 hours after the other pics. When would you suggest is a good time to flower? I'm kind of impatient but want a decent yield. Correct me if i'm wrong but i believe this is a Indica strong strain...Again thanks for the help.


Looks great! Glad to see they are recovering well. You should not need to flush during veg with DWC just change out your nutrient solution every 2 weeks and top it off with fresh water in between change outs.
I'm not sure what your strain is they are really young to tell still. Cannabis is best flowered when the plant reaches maturity which is indicated by alternating nodes. From your pics the plants look like they still have symmetrical nodes.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 5, 2011)

mikeq said:


> Hello and thanks for helping everyone one on this thread.
> Does using H202 counteract the use of Voodoo Juice?
> I am using advanced nutes + voodoo,bid bud and overdrive.
> I dont think i have root rot (in week 5 of flowering now) but want to use a preventative.
> ...


 I would not use Voodoo juice and H2O2 together. Hydrogen peroxide does not kill selectively so it will kill all the beneficials you are adding. Changing your Rez out often is also a great preventative, which you are already doing


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## anewhydrogrower (Mar 5, 2011)

is a PPM pen the same as a TDS meter? 

I received a TDS Meter in one of those ZeroWater filtration systems.......How can I use this to benefit me in my grow?


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## NewGrowth (Mar 5, 2011)

Yep, same thing. PPM is just a general measurement guideline to help you better adjust nutrient strength to the plant's needs.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 8, 2011)

Purple Hash Plant
6weeks 5days in Sunshine #4, Gen Hydro Lucas Formula. Harvested yesterday can't wait for the final weight on this plant it was a big plant.
We're going to do a photo shoot with some naked hotties and this bud
View attachment 1482838


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## anewhydrogrower (Mar 9, 2011)

I have a PH of about 6.0. I bought a "starter grow kit" becausse it was cheaper then buying separately, it has the BC Boost, BC Grow, BC Flower, Awesome Blossoms, Thrive Alive, MagiCal and Sugar Daddy, with instructions of how much to add to each gallon of water.

Will this change my PH level? If it does should I readjust it to 6.0, or just make sure the water is 6.0 before I start adding these things?


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## NewGrowth (Mar 9, 2011)

Mix all your nutrients and additives then Ph the solution don't worry about adjusting before


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## anewhydrogrower (Mar 10, 2011)

In the future for basic * nutrients and additives, instead of expensive things like BC Bloom, can I just go to Home Depot, and where the main ingredients of BC Bloom are 1-4-7, just look for another gardening blooming product with those #'s and get appx the same result at a fraction of a cost?
*


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## NewGrowth (Mar 10, 2011)

You can but but hydroponic nutrients are specially formulated for water culture, theY include chelated elements that would not normally be water soluble or would precipitate out of the solution over time.


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## Encomium (Mar 10, 2011)

First of all I'd like to say thank you for all the help you've been giving! I'm currently reading this thread in hopes of finding relevant tips/tricks to my first grow. I have a few questions that may have been answered so I apologize if they have been already...

My set up is ebb and flow w/ 250 W HPS/MH in a 3x3 grow area in 5x5 inch pots using trimmed 6" rockwool slabs (so the total height of the medium is 6'). I purchased 1 microgarden ebb and flow system that came with a bundle of nutrients (Flora grow/ Liquid karma / flora bloom) and then made 2 more ebb and flow systems myself. I'm using distilled water for the time being until I install a RO filter. 

Here are my questions:

1. I've heard a lot of ppl referring to "Ph'd" water. I assume this means water where the exact Ph is known (like distilled water @ 7)? Is there a way I can use tapwater and Ph balance it instead so I don't have to use 3-4 gallons of distilled water when flushing or pre-treating rockwool/hydroton?

2. In an earlier post you said that 4" pots would be sufficient for a plant from veg to harvest as the root would grow past into the flood tray. I'm using 5" pots with rockwool slabs with a total height of 6" (I had to trim a 6" slab of rockwool to fit into the 5" pots). My problem is that my flood tray doesn't drain 100% and small amounts of water pool in the ridges/valleys of the flood tray. Should I be thinking of transplanting into larger pots? (My estimate is that by harvest my plants will be roughly 2 ft tall). 

3. You've repeatedly stated that ionic nutrients are better suited to hydroponics and from your reasoning I'd tend to agree: How should I go about switching over from organic nutes to ionic? Just basically flushing my medium with ph'd water and washing out my reservoir/flood table?

4. Lastly, my home made ebb and flow system is using some Home Depot storage bins: Should I be worried about what kind of plastic it is?

Thanks in advance for all your help.

PS - I do *not* have a TDS meter at the moment.


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## smok3y1 (Mar 10, 2011)

I've never done grows before but plan on building a 21 site do you think it would be difficult for me to get 2 oz per plant vegging for 1 month or to around 18 inch's which ever comes first in a Co2 sealer room. Also I plan on buying a good chunk of AN line are they good for aeroponic's? My reservoir is going to be outside the grow room would that be ok or would i need to cool it down more? Any tips in general to help achieve my goal would be MUCH appreciated and sorry if you've posted something similar before can't read through 80+ pages lolol


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## NewGrowth (Mar 10, 2011)

Encomium said:


> First of all I'd like to say thank you for all the help you've been giving! I'm currently reading this thread in hopes of finding relevant tips/tricks to my first grow. I have a few questions that may have been answered so I apologize if they have been already...
> 
> My set up is ebb and flow w/ 250 W HPS/MH in a 3x3 grow area in 5x5 inch pots using trimmed 6" rockwool slabs (so the total height of the medium is 6'). I purchased 1 microgarden ebb and flow system that came with a bundle of nutrients (Flora grow/ Liquid karma / flora bloom) and then made 2 more ebb and flow systems myself. I'm using distilled water for the time being until I install a RO filter.
> 
> ...


1. Tap water should work fine if you are worried order a water quality report from your utility.

2. As long as its just a little water at the bottom of the tray it should not cause too much of a problem. Sometimes angling the tables slightly helps them drain better. The plants can go into larger pots but if the roots have room to migrate out (net pots or bottom) they should be fine.

3. Ionic is just a brand there are plenty of good mineral nutrients on the market, I a currently using General Hydroponics. Soon I'll be transferring to Nutrifield Coco nutrients. The transition is easy just go light at first because they are generally more fast acting than organic sludge.

4. Nah plastic should not worry you

Don't worry about the TDS pen it can be a useful measuring tool but if you watch your plants then you should not need one. They'll tell you what they need


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## NewGrowth (Mar 10, 2011)

smok3y1 said:


> I've never done grows before but plan on building a 21 site do you think it would be difficult for me to get 2 oz per plant vegging for 1 month or to around 18 inch's which ever comes first in a Co2 sealer room. Also I plan on buying a good chunk of AN line are they good for aeroponic's? My reservoir is going to be outside the grow room would that be ok or would i need to cool it down more? Any tips in general to help achieve my goal would be MUCH appreciated and sorry if you've posted something similar before can't read through 80+ pages lolol


One month veg is a pretty long time but it depends on your veg lighting too. I can get a pound off some strains after a month of veg so yah anything is possible. Advanced are overpriced and the additives are just confusing but if you are stuck on them go for it. There are really no tips to yield just consistently give the plants exactly what they need. Gardening is a labor of love and is the culmination of a million tedious tasks performed on a regular basis. If you learn to pay attention and recognize the signals plants will tell you exactly what they need. Beyond that proper canopy management is also key. Good luck!


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## smok3y1 (Mar 10, 2011)

Thank you for the speedy reply I was planning on using 600w Mh for veg. And I don't mind spending that extra little bit as long as I get that extra bit back. Also would 2 600w Hps be okay for the 21 site 3 rows of 7 and what size res would I need?


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## NewGrowth (Mar 10, 2011)

600w with a decent reflector will light a 3x3 area optimally so it depends on your system layout


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## smok3y1 (Mar 11, 2011)

Okay thank you NewGrowth


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## NewGrowth (Mar 11, 2011)

No worries man, good luck!

Cool avatar BTW


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## anewhydrogrower (Mar 11, 2011)

thanks for all your good advice. I ran across a GE bulb that is 9325K, the brightest I had seen before that was 6500k, any advantage to the 9325k?


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## NewGrowth (Mar 11, 2011)

K = Kelvin, it's the color spectrum emitted by the bulb not how bright it is.


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## anewhydrogrower (Mar 11, 2011)

One more thing on lighting, I run a small 6-plant hydroponic, so I have a 2ft T5 (1 3000k & 1 6500k) everything seems to be growing fine, but since I recently bought it I do have the opportunity to exchange my light, would I get any better results from an HTG PL-55? and if so would four bulbs be even better, or just two, or just keep what i've got?

I don't want to go overboard because I will never be growing a ton of plants, but if something will benefit me a little more as a newbe and its not gonna cost to much more....


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## kblcljack (Mar 11, 2011)

im using tap water with a ppm of approx. 240ppm. If the nutrientss call for 740ppm and my water is 240 ppm. should i add just 500ppm of solution?


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## NewGrowth (Mar 11, 2011)

anewhydrogrower said:


> One more thing on lighting, I run a small 6-plant hydroponic, so I have a 2ft T5 (1 3000k & 1 6500k) everything seems to be growing fine, but since I recently bought it I do have the opportunity to exchange my light, would I get any better results from an HTG PL-55? and if so would four bulbs be even better, or just two, or just keep what i've got?
> 
> I don't want to go overboard because I will never be growing a ton of plants, but if something will benefit me a little more as a newbe and its not gonna cost to much more....


 Not sure the pl-55 is a two tube t-5. How many tubes is your t-5 now? More light can't hurt unless is causes to much heat.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 12, 2011)

kblcljack said:


> im using tap water with a ppm of approx. 240ppm. If the nutrientss call for 740ppm and my water is 240 ppm. should i add just 500ppm of solution?


240ppm is fairly high you can order a water quality report from

your local water utility. I would not subtract the initial 240ppm just because we're not sure what exactly is in the water.


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## smok3y1 (Mar 12, 2011)

Hey NewGrowth am back for 2 last questions! looool what size reservoir would i need for the 21 site setup and do you think 2 sprayers per pot is fine? Thanks again! i really do appreciate your help!


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## anewhydrogrower (Mar 12, 2011)

NewGrowth said:


> Not sure the pl-55 is a two tube t-5. How many tubes is your t-5 now? More light can't hurt unless is causes to much heat.


 I just have two tubes one 3000k, and one 6500k, but it's only 6 plants. happy to spend a few extra $ if the PL-55 will help but I may have enough for my small garden?


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## NewGrowth (Mar 12, 2011)

smok3y1 said:


> Hey NewGrowth am back for 2 last questions! looool what size reservoir would i need for the 21 site setup and do you think 2 sprayers per pot is fine? Thanks again! i really do appreciate your help!


I shoot for about 1gal/plant. So a 20-25gal reservoir
should be adequate. I'm sure two sprayers would work as well.

On the pl-55 question: Go for it!


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## Encomium (Mar 12, 2011)

NewGrowth said:


> 2. As long as its just a little water at the bottom of the tray it should not cause too much of a problem. Sometimes angling the tables slightly helps them drain better. The plants can go into larger pots but if the roots have room to migrate out (net pots or bottom) they should be fine.


Thank you very much. + Rep in appreciation as always. 

Ok, my plants would technically have room for roots to migrate out below the pots but them I'm faced with either the exposed roots getting light exposure and/or the roots drying out (since the bulk of the roots are in rockwool). 

Also, I don't suppose you have a general rule for ideal pot container size for hydroponics with end plant height (ie. harvested height) of roughly 2.5 feet? I'd prefer never having to transplant my babies after the initial transplant from seedling/clone to veg. 

Cheers!


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## NewGrowth (Mar 12, 2011)

A gallon per foot of plant height is usually pretty adequate. Hydroponics allows for a smaller root zone however. Generally hydroponic plants have a smaller root mass than soil plants because the plant can feed so readily.


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## gr33ndude (Mar 13, 2011)

hi NG. congrats on this thread bro, i think this is awesome. i read over half of it and it solved many of my questions. i still want to ask u something. im planning on running 2x600w hps, and im planning to make my own hidro sistem. so here goes the avalance of questions 

1. im planning on using adjustawings medium with my lights. the site sais i could cover 1.25x 1.75 meters. thats about 2 square meters per light kit. Do u think the bucket sistem works good with this light coverage, or maybe i should make a pvc pipe sistem that would sustain more and smaller plants, rather than few large plants ? both sistems are drip based sistems

2. on both sistems (pvc pipe and buckets) there will be a small ammount of water so the roots can stand in it. would that level of water be the same componence as the main nutrient solution in the tank ? i'm thinking maybe the nutrient level may increase as the water evaporates. my main concern is that when the roots stay in that bottom solution they wont get damaged or something.

3. regarding the bucket sistem, does the size of the top bucket filled with expanded clay pellets make any difference ? i.m planning on vegging for 4-6 weeks. i mean can i grow the same plant and same yield with both 10liter top bucket as with a 20 liter ? 

4. do clay pebbles retain water, because i dont know how the plants will get thru a power shortage(may happen, but not often).

5. regarding the bottom water level the roots stay in, should i run air lines to oxigenate that water, or will 2-3 airstones in the tank be sufficient ? 

6. also could u aproximate the power the pump needs to have for this sistems(buckets & PVC) ?

also if u have any sugestion on what should i choose or add in this hidro design would be greately apreciated. also the room im setting this up is at least 10 square meters, so im gonna put mylar on 2 walls that should take care of one side of the grow space, and for the other 2 sides i will be setting up easy to move mylar walls (cardboard with mylar on a vertical structure to act as walls for grow area) also how powerfull should a pump be to work for 13-15 bucket or the pvc pipe design. also is it posible to overwater in dripper sistems ? i dont think its possible but still worth a question. sorry about being unorganised at the end of message but the haze is starting to kick in lol. also i would like to thank you in behalf of the forum for helping inexperienced growers. peace bro. 

LATER EDIT: what mediium should i use to start seeds or clones in this kind of sistem ? im asking because i dont know if i should drip around the rockwool or on it ? also if i drip around the rockwool cube, the roots in the rockwool wont become dry, causing problems for the plant ? sorry for bad spelling and bad english and poor exprimation skills, but english is not my native language. peace bro and tx again for helping the forum out.


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## anewhydrogrower (Mar 13, 2011)

For a first time grow, they are starting to look pretty good at 3 weeks. My understanding is that when it is time, I initiate the final growth/harvest by cutting the lights back to 12/12 and turning off the 6500K and just using 3000K. Is that correct?


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## gamebreaker81 (Mar 13, 2011)

Hi I am using a ebb and grow 12 plant sight how many times a day and for how long should i feed the plants? i was thinking 4 times a day in 15 min intervals while running the lights 18/7. Also should i drop a air pump in the rezzy to oxigenate the water??


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## tokenallthetime (Mar 13, 2011)

I have my flood set up ready... 8k watts i can wait to flip the on switch.. now i have these clones i got from a shop and they are in soil cups ... have you ever rinsed roots from soil and replanted in hydro?


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## NewGrowth (Mar 14, 2011)

gr33ndude said:


> hi NG. congrats on this thread bro, i think this is awesome. i read over half of it and it solved many of my questions. i still want to ask u something. im planning on running 2x600w hps, and im planning to make my own hidro sistem. so here goes the avalance of questions


Guess I'm going to have to start doing this again to make sure I catch everything 
I'm glad I could help, after April I'll be going outdoors for a bit so I will not be on as much soooo I'll let you guys take advantage of me now 


> 1. im planning on using adjustawings medium with my lights. the site sais i could cover 1.25x 1.75 meters. thats about 2 square meters per light kit. Do u think the bucket sistem works good with this light coverage, or maybe i should make a pvc pipe sistem that would sustain more and smaller plants, rather than few large plants ? both sistems are drip based sistems


Sounds about right, its up to you on the plant size you can get the same yield. I prefer fewer larger plants but that also requires proper canopy management.



> 2. on both sistems (pvc pipe and buckets) there will be a small ammount of water so the roots can stand in it. would that level of water be the same componence as the main nutrient solution in the tank ? i'm thinking maybe the nutrient level may increase as the water evaporates. my main concern is that when the roots stay in that bottom solution they wont get damaged or something.


Don't leave roots in standing water if you can avoid it. Roots don't need to be constantly soaked, doing this only promotes rot. Unless your solution is constantly circulating or aerated. The plants generally take up more water than nutrients hence some of the reasoning behind topping with plain water between change outs. Look into ebb&grow systems or waterfarm buckets if you prefer the drip rings.




> 3. regarding the bucket sistem, does the size of the top bucket filled with expanded clay pellets make any difference ? i.m planning on vegging for 4-6 weeks. i mean can i grow the same plant and same yield with both 10liter top bucket as with a 20 liter ?


 Yes eventually the root mass will fill the top bucket and clog drainage holes, ect. So the answer is you can grow a bigger plant in a 20l bucket. 



> 4. do clay pebbles retain water, because i dont know how the plants will get thru a power shortage(may happen, but not often).


 Some water through capillary action. Hand watering during an outage is not out of the question for hydroponics 



> 5. regarding the bottom water level the roots stay in, should i run air lines to oxigenate that water, or will 2-3 airstones in the tank be sufficient ?


 Yes, unless your solution is being circulated enough to aerate it.



> 6. also could u aproximate the power the pump needs to have for this sistems(buckets & PVC) ?


 Depends on a lot of factors but ebb & grow buckets systems of this size use a 350GPH pump.



> also if u have any sugestion on what should i choose or add in this hidro design would be greately apreciated. also the room im setting this up is at least 10 square meters, so im gonna put mylar on 2 walls that should take care of one side of the grow space, and for the other 2 sides i will be setting up easy to move mylar walls (cardboard with mylar on a vertical structure to act as walls for grow area) also how powerfull should a pump be to work for 13-15 bucket or the pvc pipe design. also is it posible to overwater in dripper sistems ? i dont think its possible but still worth a question. sorry about being unorganised at the end of message but the haze is starting to kick in lol. also i would like to thank you in behalf of the forum for helping inexperienced growers. peace bro.
> 
> LATER EDIT: what mediium should i use to start seeds or clones in this kind of sistem ? im asking because i dont know if i should drip around the rockwool or on it ? also if i drip around the rockwool cube, the roots in the rockwool wont become dry, causing problems for the plant ? sorry for bad spelling and bad english and poor exprimation skills, but english is not my native language. peace bro and tx again for helping the forum out.


Not really possible to overwater hydroton unless there is a bunch of standing water. Starting clones is up to you use whatever medium you have most luck with.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 14, 2011)

anewhydrogrower said:


> For a first time grow, they are starting to look pretty good at 3 weeks. My understanding is that when it is time, I initiate the final growth/harvest by cutting the lights back to 12/12 and turning off the 6500K and just using 3000K. Is that correct?


I would use both light all the way through and just switch to 12/12


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## NewGrowth (Mar 14, 2011)

gamebreaker81 said:


> Hi I am using a ebb and grow 12 plant sight how many times a day and for how long should i feed the plants? i was thinking 4 times a day in 15 min intervals while running the lights 18/7. Also should i drop a air pump in the rezzy to oxigenate the water??


Depends on how big the plants are, its hard to say because it depends more on what the plant wants. You can oxygenate the reservoir but the circulating action of the pump flooding and draining the system should be adequate to oxygenate the solution.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 14, 2011)

tokenallthetime said:


> I have my flood set up ready... 8k watts i can wait to flip the on switch.. now i have these clones i got from a shop and they are in soil cups ... have you ever rinsed roots from soil and replanted in hydro?


Yeah it usually works fine just be gentle breaking up the rootball. Some plants just don't take though.


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## Neumann (Mar 14, 2011)

Do you prefer to measure EC, TDS or both?


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## Encomium (Mar 14, 2011)

After cleaning out my grow tent and ebb and flow reservoirs I've placed my 4 babies back in to start flowering. I used the "transition" phase nutrient chart and set everything up for flowering. 

However I did NOT Ph my reservoir's until after 1 watering cycle and noticed that they were Ph'd @ 4.6! I then added a bit more water and some Ph Up. 

My question is: I've read that dramatically shifting the Ph is bad but I believed that this was info I'd read about for soil grows. Is this also true for Hydro?


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## gr33ndude (Mar 14, 2011)

NG i dont know how much of u hero u are in this thread bro. thank you for the best advices and responses. hope that ur outdoor will be very good plants. can u give me an idea how long to drip for small pots, and how long for the big bucket sistem? or really some experience if u grown with drip sistems...or just anything that u want to advice on ?also, if a power shortage does occur and lasts 2-3 hours, what sistem between those 2 sistems have the ability to pass the shortage ?and it would be a great help if you could tell me the spacing between plants u use or recomend, and also how much should i veg the clones for ur setup. this is my last post bugging you, i swear...peace bro . tx big time. 

@ Encomium ... hope ur babies grow into outstanding women  peace bro


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## anewhydrogrower (Mar 14, 2011)

Being a new user, I went with the "Recipe for success starter kit" by Technaflora. It calls for adding "Sugar Daddy" at every level, and more of that then any other ingredient. It is also the most expensive I notice at almost $50 a Gallon. If I got even a 10% better yield I would keep doing it, but not having grown before, I don't know. 

What do you think?


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## CHUCKTYLAH (Mar 17, 2011)

Have a question for Newgrowth if you have the time. Growing in a 4ish gallon resevior bubbleponics system with 4 5-15 gallon air pumps and 4 bubble curtains. Hydroton medium. I adjust my Ph (Hanna digital calibrate once a day check PH atm 5-6 times a day) after all additives to 5.8 let it sit for a day or more and check PH again before I put it in. After a couple hours its back up to 7.1 or 7.2 I put a teaspoon of PH down in with some water to dilute it so it doesnt drop all my calcium out of my nutes when I put it in and the teaspoon will get me down to about 6.3 but in a couple hours its back to 7.1 I can do this all day. Been running the system for 5 weeks now. Plants are growing steady and bushy some of the huge bottom fan leaves are a bit droopy and the very top new growth comes out with a serious curl down that gets better as it gets bigger but the very tips stay pointing a bit down and a bit discolored throughout the grow. No leaves dying No serious distortion. But many of the leaves have a cupping going on they have the small curl down on the end and the sides are curling just a bit. I dont believe any of this is caused by nute burn because I started the nutes out very low and slowly worked them up and when I check PPms during the day the plant is using them as well as water im slowly catching up with the amount of nutes it uses but not in a hurry to increase because they are growing well. I moved the light (400w hps) 3 1/2 feet away just incase this cupping and curling was due to it but I haven't noticed a change in it. The hydroton says its PH balanced to 7. I messed up and didnt soak it in a 5.8 ph solution so my rookie assumption is that the hydroton is raising my ph. I guess my questions are: is the hydroton raising my PH? Is it going to keep doing it throughout the grow? Is 7.1 PH going to cause the curling and cupping I speak of? Is lowering it throughout the day good? bad? Should I start my Solution at a lower than desirable knowing in 2 hours it will go up like 5.5. I just started flowering and I believe flowering likes a tad higher PH should I just leave it like I been doing it and clean my hydroton better next grow?


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## smok3y1 (Mar 19, 2011)

Hey NewGrowth if i kept the reservoir out of the grow room for my aeroponic setup would that be fine heat wise or would i need a chiller am avoiding a chiller at all cost at the moment cause its damn expensive!!!
Also I was looking to put pump timer on 1on 4 off but will that kill my pump fast? If yes how long roughly?


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## NewGrowth (Mar 20, 2011)

I'll get to your questions soon just busy getting ready for spring


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## NewGrowth (Mar 20, 2011)

Neumann said:


> Do you prefer to measure EC, TDS or both?


 Does not matter, I use TDS because I'm in the US and that is the most common here.


Encomium said:


> After cleaning out my grow tent and ebb and flow reservoirs I've placed my 4 babies back in to start flowering. I used the "transition" phase nutrient chart and set everything up for flowering.
> 
> However I did NOT Ph my reservoir's until after 1 watering cycle and noticed that they were Ph'd @ 4.6! I then added a bit more water and some Ph Up.
> 
> My question is: I've read that dramatically shifting the Ph is bad but I believed that this was info I'd read about for soil grows. Is this also true for Hydro?


Yes Ph shift can cause a lot of damage. Make sure you are using the correct nutrient concentration and your roots are not diseased both can cause Ph Flux.



gr33ndude said:


> NG i dont know how much of u hero u are in this thread bro. thank you for the best advices and responses. hope that ur outdoor will be very good plants. can u give me an idea how long to drip for small pots, and how long for the big bucket sistem? or really some experience if u grown with drip sistems...or just anything that u want to advice on ?also, if a power shortage does occur and lasts 2-3 hours, what sistem between those 2 sistems have the ability to pass the shortage ?and it would be a great help if you could tell me the spacing between plants u use or recomend, and also how much should i veg the clones for ur setup. this is my last post bugging you, i swear...peace bro . tx big time.
> 
> @ Encomium ... hope ur babies grow into outstanding women  peace bro


Thanks bro, drip timing is variable and also dependent on the medium you are using. If its drain to waste I prefer a more absorbant media that requires less water. If it is recirculating then hydroton is an excellent media that can't really be over watered. Power outages can be solved by battery backups on pumps or hand watering.



anewhydrogrower said:


> Being a new user, I went with the "Recipe for success starter kit" by Technaflora. It calls for adding "Sugar Daddy" at every level, and more of that then any other ingredient. It is also the most expensive I notice at almost $50 a Gallon. If I got even a 10% better yield I would keep doing it, but not having grown before, I don't know.
> 
> What do you think?


I think its another marketing ploy 



CHUCKTYLAH said:


> Have a question for Newgrowth if you have the time. Growing in a 4ish gallon resevior bubbleponics system with 4 5-15 gallon air pumps and 4 bubble curtains. Hydroton medium. I adjust my Ph (Hanna digital calibrate once a day check PH atm 5-6 times a day) after all additives to 5.8 let it sit for a day or more and check PH again before I put it in. After a couple hours its back up to 7.1 or 7.2 I put a teaspoon of PH down in with some water to dilute it so it doesnt drop all my calcium out of my nutes when I put it in and the teaspoon will get me down to about 6.3 but in a couple hours its back to 7.1 I can do this all day. Been running the system for 5 weeks now. Plants are growing steady and bushy some of the huge bottom fan leaves are a bit droopy and the very top new growth comes out with a serious curl down that gets better as it gets bigger but the very tips stay pointing a bit down and a bit discolored throughout the grow. No leaves dying No serious distortion. But many of the leaves have a cupping going on they have the small curl down on the end and the sides are curling just a bit. I dont believe any of this is caused by nute burn because I started the nutes out very low and slowly worked them up and when I check PPms during the day the plant is using them as well as water im slowly catching up with the amount of nutes it uses but not in a hurry to increase because they are growing well. I moved the light (400w hps) 3 1/2 feet away just incase this cupping and curling was due to it but I haven't noticed a change in it. The hydroton says its PH balanced to 7. I messed up and didnt soak it in a 5.8 ph solution so my rookie assumption is that the hydroton is raising my ph. I guess my questions are: is the hydroton raising my PH? Is it going to keep doing it throughout the grow? Is 7.1 PH going to cause the curling and cupping I speak of? Is lowering it throughout the day good? bad? Should I start my Solution at a lower than desirable knowing in 2 hours it will go up like 5.5. I just started flowering and I believe flowering likes a tad higher PH should I just leave it like I been doing it and clean my hydroton better next grow?


 Do you have any pictures? Your Ph shift is no the hydroton. Do you have any root disease?



smok3y1 said:


> Hey NewGrowth if i kept the reservoir out of the grow room for my aeroponic setup would that be fine heat wise or would i need a chiller am avoiding a chiller at all cost at the moment cause its damn expensive!!!
> Also I was looking to put pump timer on 1on 4 off but will that kill my pump fast? If yes how long roughly?


 Probably would not need a chiller either way as long as the reservoir is properly aerated you should be fine.


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## CHUCKTYLAH (Mar 21, 2011)

> *Do you have any pictures? Your Ph shift is no the hydroton. Do you have any root disease?*


Tank is clean roots are white as snow. The PH drops are slowing down alot. PH doesn't go above 6.3 anymore. The curling isn't affecting the new growth (haha) anymore. I think I have a jealous botany ghost that has now givin up messin with my girls. Thanks for the reply and thanks for all the information you have provided on these forums it is of great help even to a rather experienced grower.


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## anewhydrogrower (Mar 28, 2011)

I am using the T5-PL55 108w, it has one 3000k bulb and one 6500k bulb, is it a coincidence that the plant under the 3000k bulb has about 6 times as many leafs. (this is about 3 weeks old) Also I saw a light I had never seen before, that has 1 HQI Bulb, 4 t5 bulbs and an LED, can you give me your opinion on this. http://www.aquatraders.com/24in-Metal-Halide-HQI-T5-Aquarium-Light-p/54261.htm


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## MediMary (Mar 28, 2011)

*Were having a hydroponic give away over in toke n talk, everyone should stop by! 

https://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/419507-rollitup-2011-giveaway-contest-who-5.html*


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## bigdaadio (Mar 30, 2011)

NG thanks for all the great info!!


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