# Scientific improvement on yield and potency



## potlike (Aug 28, 2007)

I have an educational background in economics and statistics; so if anyone had any theories they would like to test on ways we can improve various aspects of our growing I would be willing to work with you and intrepret data on a scientifically sound level so we could setup experiments in whatever theory it may be.

Could be nutrient vs nutrient efficiency, EXACT optimal lumens for given strain, trichome development.... you name it - I can interpret the data to laymen terms in exact percentages of efficiency etc etc.

-pot


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## th3bigbad (Aug 28, 2007)

if you get bored enough id like to know what the exact % of cost of ele used to bud would be from this grow. its not a big deal just kinda wondering
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/8513-cfl-vs-floro-vs-hps.html


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## potlike (Aug 28, 2007)

can you be more specific ?
Are you meaning cost of materials to grams of bud per yield? If so that wouldn't require hypothesis testing or regressions but I would be happy to figure it up for you.

-pot


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## th3bigbad (Aug 28, 2007)

im sorry im 1/2 assed stoned,. what im trying to see is how cost effective each room was based only on ele used. so yeah i guess the cost per gram would work, or oz. doesnt matter to me its just something ive been wondering and im really bad with math. all my cost figures where just ballparks.


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## potlike (Aug 28, 2007)

yeah my roommate and I are baked too- i love graduate school


if you want that I need your costs outlined and a grow to compare that to using similar parts to be a true test


ps: love the monkey picture in the profile


-pot . . . . st0ned


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## th3bigbad (Aug 28, 2007)

ok lets see, i used
6 x 13 watt cfl lights 12 hours a day for 6 weeks and yielded 1.25oz/dry
1 x 1000 watt HPS 12 hours a day for 6 weeks and yielded 2.25oz/dry 
decent hydro goes for about 200 an oz around here, and my ele is 14.6 cents per kwh. i think thats all you need but i might be wrong. let me know if you need something else,,,, thanx

P.S. 
my monkey parties like a rockstar lol


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## SmokerE (Aug 28, 2007)

th3bigbad said:


> ok lets see, i used
> 6 x 13 watt cfl lights 12 hours a day for 6 weeks and yielded 1.25oz/dry
> 1 x 1000 watt HPS 12 hours a day for 6 weeks and yielded 2.25oz/dry
> decent hydro goes for about 200 an oz around here, and my ele is 14.6 cents per kwh. i think thats all you need but i might be wrong. let me know if you need something else,,,, thanx
> ...


 

Get to work schoolboy! j/k


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## th3bigbad (Aug 28, 2007)

lol he offered,,,, i just wanted to see if he would really do it


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## potlike (Aug 29, 2007)

CFL:

6x13x12=936 watts per day

6 weeks * 7 days a week = 42 days

936*42=39312 watts per growing period

39312/1000= 39.312 kw per growing period

39.312 x .146 = $5.73 per growing period on CFL lighting all other things equal

5.73/1.25= 4.58 per ounce in electricity

HPS
1x1000x12=12000 watts per day or 12kw per day
12kw per day x 42 days =504 kw per growing period

504 X .146 = $73.584 PER growinrg period on hps all other things equal
73.58 / 2.25 = $37.70 per ounce on hps

4.58/200 = .0229 or 2% of street cost CFL
37.70/200 = .1885 or 18% of street cost HPS

16% differential in cost


hrmm that is VERY INTERESTING

as I said I didn't do any hypothesis testing or regressions but this looks significant enough to look into
-pot


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## potlike (Aug 29, 2007)

to conduct that experiment properly I think we would need to run them side by side at the same time and make sure nearly everything else is the same as far as dimensions and equipment, nutrients, venting, humidity, ph etc etc.

I just did some math it would take about 181 CFL @ 13w each to = lumen output of a 1000w hps

13w* 181 = 2353/1000 = 2.35 kw per hour compared to 1 kw per hour from 1000w hps

that would be rated at 145,000 lumens each way

it would be interesting to see what yields are produced at each level then getting true price per ounce with everything else close to equal

other issues would be the quality of the bud itself? Are the buds on each tight and compact? Tons of questions here - let me know if you would like to further this experiment with me and we can come up with some real results

Wish I could publish this for my vita- however, I am afraid the academic world wouldn't really appreciate my fondness for herbal cultivation.


-pot


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## UncleSunny (Aug 29, 2007)

What I would like to know is about the collection of energy in solar panels, and if a set up with an LED light modified to the green spectrum can maintain a mother plant with Sunlight and the LED solar discharge, in the green spectrum with plenty of Mylar, without letting that mother plant flower. 
Basically, can you fool the light cycle with enegry given out of an inexpensive solar set up, if you maintain the maxium hours of sunlight for a vegatative plant?


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## dustimus (Aug 29, 2007)

potlike said:


> I have an educational background in economics and statistics; so if anyone had any theories they would like to test on ways we can improve various aspects of our growing I would be willing to work with you and intrepret data on a scientifically sound level so we could setup experiments in whatever theory it may be.
> 
> Could be nutrient vs nutrient efficiency, EXACT optimal lumens for given strain, trichome development.... you name it - I can interpret the data to laymen terms in exact percentages of efficiency etc etc.
> 
> -pot


I really really agree with your main goals. This site is used far too much to bash the same issues over and over again. When most of the time, all the questions can be found easier and faster in the GrowFAQ. 

The main members do not spend enough time working on ways to increase things like strain strength, cost reduction, yield, or other main goals that we as growers need to help advance our science

It's really nice that we have you as a member now, that has the motivation and the mind to help advance us semi-seasoned growers. Good luck!

Dustin


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## potlike (Aug 29, 2007)

well like I said sunny I do not have the resources to run these experiments by myself I am just interpreting the results for you in real understandable terms based on sample or population evidence.

if you want to do this test give me some raw data to interpret on the subject or do the experiment yourself and give me the data at that point.


-pot


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## Kant (Aug 29, 2007)

This is a pretty cool idea. When i first went through your calculations i was almost positive you did something wrong. the line " 6x13x12=936 watts per day" threw me off because that would be an estimate for running those 6 cfls for 12 sec not 12 hours. then it hit me, you're doing it in w-h not watts and then divide by kwh and not kw. thank you for making me over think this problem.


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## th3bigbad (Aug 29, 2007)

potlike said:


> CFL:
> 
> 6x13x12=936 watts per day
> 
> ...


 very cool thank you very much for figuring that out. like i said before i was just ball parking. 
the link i posted in my first post on this thread was a head to head grow i did a while back just for shits and giggles. i was trying to see if floros or CFLs could really keep up with a HPS as far as being cost effective, and what the pros and cons are for each. alot of the newer growers try to use floros or not enough CFLs and have probs, so i thought i would put myself in their shoes. 
to see what all probs i would run into. i had an extra HPS so i tossed it in to show the differences in useing floros and HID lighting. mostly just to have a better feel for what im talking about.
everything was ran exactly the same and i do mean everything. the same totes, nutes, clones, room temp, res temp, size rooms, ph, ppm, and same additives added at the same time. the lights were the only thing that was different. 
i was going to do a head to head where 1000watts of HPS would grow side by side with 1000watts of CFLs, but i desided not to do it after i built the cabnet. it wouldve been way to much work to move 40 x 26watt CFLs everyday. 
and about what you said about needing enough CFLs to have 140,000 lumans to grow next to a HPS,,,, you really wouldnt need that many to do it. you lose something like 1/2 your luman power per foot. they did a write up on this on OG. so a 140,000 luman HPS light hanging 1 foot over the plant will only have 70,000 lumans hittin the plants. and 1 foot is really honkin close for a 1000watt HPS. the CFLs are no more than 2 or 3 inches away, so more of the lumans per watt reach the plants.


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## Kant (Aug 29, 2007)

to determine how many lumens your plants are getting it's :

L/(d^2) = Lumen/(distance squared)

then to figure out lumens per watt that your plants are getting it would be:

L/((d^2)*w)

it'd be really cool if we could collect a whole bunch of data to plot out the efficiencies of lights. i'd be more than glad to help you out potlike if you need/want it.


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## potroast (Aug 30, 2007)

Something like that was done 10 years ago, on the original forum. We named it the Yield-O-Rama. Growers would submit specific info about their crops, and it has been compiled. See it here:

Indoor Yield-O-Rama - Home Page


HTH


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## fdd2blk (Aug 30, 2007)

dustimus said:


> I really really agree with your main goals. This site is used far too much to bash the same issues over and over again. When most of the time, all the questions can be found easier and faster in the GrowFAQ.
> 
> The main members do not spend enough time working on ways to increase things like strain strength, cost reduction, yield, or other main goals that we as growers need to help advance our science
> 
> ...



you obviously haven't seen any of my posts.


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## wafflehouselover (Aug 30, 2007)

what makes trichomes production? How can we induce the plant to produce more tri?


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## fdd2blk (Aug 30, 2007)

people, it's all genetics. you can't make a short man tall. but he can marry a tall chick and have tall babies.


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## Kant (Aug 30, 2007)

fdd2blk said:


> people, it's all genetics. you can't make a short man tall. but he can marry a tall chick and have tall babies.


genetics are only the instructions. we're here to give figure out what are the best tools for the job.


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## th3bigbad (Aug 30, 2007)

wafflehouselover said:


> what makes trichomes production? How can we induce the plant to produce more tri?


 while fdd is right you can do some things that will make more trichomes. your not going to take a plant with 2% THC into a monster 50% superuberdooper skunk, but you can make some better by useing more UV rays. there was a study done way back on the effects of plants of the same strain grow in different places around the world. the plants closer to the equator or at high altitude had a higher THC content. because those 2 places have more UV rays than most. 
the resin (THC) is the plants way of fighting of the UV rays. it keeps the seeds (or lack of there of) from getting cooked by the sun. 
other than that 1 study i havent been able to find much on the subject, so it may all be a load of poo. but it does make since to me that it "could" work. how much better it could be or how much extra UV rays you could add without toasting your plants i dont know. 

P.S.
if any1 has any more info on this i would love to see it. P.M. me please


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## Kant (Aug 30, 2007)

i do feel like a copycat now and it's kinda depressing.


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## wafflehouselover (Aug 30, 2007)

th3bigbad said:


> while fdd is right you can do some things that will make more trichomes. your not going to take a plant with 2% THC into a monster 50% superuberdooper skunk, but you can make some better by useing more UV rays. there was a study done way back on the effects of plants of the same strain grow in different places around the world. the plants closer to the equator or at high altitude had a higher THC content. because those 2 places have more UV rays than most.
> the resin (THC) is the plants way of fighting of the UV rays. it keeps the seeds (or lack of there of) from getting cooked by the sun.
> other than that 1 study i havent been able to find much on the subject, so it may all be a load of poo. but it does make since to me that it "could" work. how much better it could be or how much extra UV rays you could add without toasting your plants i dont know.
> 
> ...


awsome dude, that makes more sense then the crap people say about lowering the humidity will trick the plant into producing more tric.


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## SmokerE (Aug 30, 2007)

fdd2blk said:


> people, it's all genetics. you can't make a short man tall. but he can marry a tall chick and have tall babies.


 
You can make a skinny guy/girl stronger, just weird side effects like a bigger head and smaller....ummm....manhood. All you gotta do is just stick a needle in his/her butt. We have HGH, they just need to make MGH.


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## potlike (Aug 30, 2007)

please don't let this thread get off topic; It is common sense you can not wave your magic wand and turn schwag into high quality 30% thc bud.... however you can maximize the potential of a given strain using the proper lighting, nutrients and care simulating the optimal environment for that strain.

Yes, genetics plays a major role however there are a shit ton of other influences and if you tell me there aren't you are a hypocrite with your 400w-1000w hps lights,hydroponic systems, mylar sheeting/flat white painted walls, nutrient mixtures, tds calibrations, ph meters, and whatever else the fuck you have. You are trying to optimize the growing environment for the plant. Even if you have optimized to a 99% efficiency(I would guarantee anyone here is probably not over 80-85% because of what is currently still unknown) then you still have that 1% chance of improving the plant's environment. That is the reason for this post and my OFFER to help both for my own benefit and everyone else's here.

If you don't care to improve your baby's don't worry about this thread and ignore it. For those of you that do I will not conduct most experiments for you as I do not have the time/resources, however what I will do is interpret your results and help you run the experiment with proper procedure so we can determine as much as we can about this beautiful plant.


-pot 

ps: on a sidenote to bigbad I purchased some reptile lights and will eventually experiments with and without them but my space is limited at this moment to do it all at once. I will post my results and run regressions as well as hypothesis testing with various questions relating to the claim that they can improve resin production in plants. I really found one or two studies I read fascinating so I wish to test the validity myself with a 5% level of significance to know if it really does work.

pss: wafflehouse the theory that has been going around goes something like this:
The sun emits a few classes of Ultraviolet rays
UVA: the bulk of what we get from the sun
UVB: highly toxic to humans and somewhat to plants
UVC: absorbed by ozone layer

UVB rays seem to be more apparent in different parts of the world- it just so happens in these parts of the world is where some of the best marijuana is grown outdoors.

Supposedly marijuana produces more thc as a defense mechanism to deal with the stress of the uvb radiation

that is a basic rundown as my understanding on it is limited
you can google uvb marijuana 
or watch this


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## wafflehouselover (Aug 30, 2007)

the reason i asked this is because i got 2 plants that i took clones from and one plant produced alot of resin and the other one didn't. I know its different phenotype but i was wondaring if theres something i can do about it.


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## potlike (Aug 30, 2007)

yours was a very valid question wafflehouse and I would be glad to work with you on an experiment and translate the data in real delta(change) percentages and optimal exposure of uvb if there is any at all. If you are interested contact me and we'll setup an experiment with everything else the same other than one sample of plants being exposed to uvb and another set not or we could do multiple levels of exposure if you have the room. As well as proper procedure for experiment and for your safety as well you may want to shut off the uvb lamps when you are in the room 


-pot


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## th3bigbad (Aug 30, 2007)

dont the reptile lights have a huge amount of IR heat? seems like a tanning bed bulb would work better. just food for thought


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## fdd2blk (Aug 30, 2007)

i guess this is the indoor only club. sorry for the sidetrack.


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## potlike (Aug 30, 2007)

nah that's cool fdd it's not indoor only, however it is alot harder to control the environment outside so it is harder to get accurate results. If we can do anything to help the end product of marijuana then that is what we are after.


bigbad: I have actually considered tanning bulbs as well, but I wonder how much uvb they give off compared to reptile lights- it is something I will look into. The other issue would be cost. It seems that reptile lights give off a better percentage of uvb and if you added cooling you would still be WAY better off costwise compared to tanning bed lamps.

-pot


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## th3bigbad (Aug 30, 2007)

the reason i said something about a tanning bed bulb is i have a tanning bed that i bought for my X. shes gone and its just in the way. it has 26 bulbs that are 100 watt. i havent been able to find any specs on them as far as color temp or UV rating. i wont use all of them, but im sure some of them will make it into a grow before long. 
i also just got a order of gibberellic acid that im going to try in different stages of plant life as soon as i have my clone count up.


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## PlasmaRadio (Aug 30, 2007)

I just glad Im not the only dork getting stoned and doing math.


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## fdd2blk (Aug 30, 2007)

i'm glad i'm stoned. this is all to much for me.


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## wafflehouselover (Aug 30, 2007)

this is awsome, sorry pot i can't do a side by side comparison experiment with you but i sure can try out these uv light theory. Go ahead and do your study and let me know what bulb i need to get and stuff.


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## potlike (Sep 8, 2007)

bump... I wanna see some questions and ideas here please

oh and plasma I do studies and schoolwork MUCH better when I am stoned then when I am not... go figure



-pot


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## JESSE (Sep 9, 2007)

allright heres a question...ive never grown a pure sativa before but i want to do it indoors ive got some columbian gold seeds and i want to use those spiral energy saveing flouros how many should i use and how tall should i let it get before i put it under flowering if i want atleast two-three ounces.i understand that flouros produce small fluffy buds but can you change that by just using alot off them on the sides and above the plant? i have great ventilation but still havent found a hid bulb i can keep cool.


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## potlike (Sep 9, 2007)

Soil grow? Hydroponic- if so which kind? Space involved? How many trees are you wanting to plant... you can get 2-3 ounces out of one plant EASY. These are all prerequisites needed to answer your question.


-pot


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## JESSE (Sep 10, 2007)

soil its just easier to me,got some bat guano in the mix with perlite its real airy fluffy and rich.i gotta place thats ten foot ceilings but the lights will probly take up atleast a foot so the maximum height i can get is like nine feet but i like being able to reach my shit so ill probly start flowering when they get three feet tall.i only want to grow enough for me to survive on because i am not a dealer.i believe everyone should fucking grow there own.i want to use cfls cause the heat and they are easily available to me but i know they are weak.i smoke two ounces a weak so how many should a plant to get what i need.once i determine what seeds are what i will grow what i like breed them the way i like and adapt.should i use bonemeal i hear there is controversy over the stuff but i have a batch...?


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## Kant (Sep 10, 2007)

potlike, i found this light for birds that gives off UVB. i'm not sure how much but i figure some is better than none and it's relatively cheap.

Bird Lighting: Zoo Med AvianSun 5.0 Compact Fluorescent Bulb at Drs. Foster and Smith


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## Kant (Sep 10, 2007)

actually here's a better light intended for reptiles.

20 WATT DESERT 7% UVB COIL LAMP


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## potlike (Sep 10, 2007)

I still don't know your other dimensions available to you jesse other than 9-10 foot ceilings...and everything I found about columbian gold heights have varied greatly but height for you will not be an issue.

What is your length and width of the room that you are doing. If you have the space I would suggest investing in a HPS as you will spend WAY more money lumen for lumen in electricity and with that space setup multiple "stations" which you rotate your crop so that you have 1-2 plants harvest every 2 weeks to a month. 

Honestly if every month you added a new plant to a rotation system I think you would have plenty to smoke nonstop and would actually be able to use the excess from the last harvest making hash oil - keeping a perpetual harvest and a smile on your face.


-pot


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## potlike (Sep 10, 2007)

Kant: I can't help but to think supplementing your crop with 5-10 of these would do nothing but give you fat resiny THC filled buds, and if you grow out a few generations of that crop it would become a trait. Grow it out- pollinate one to two buds then harvest those seeds and do the same thing. After a couple generations high thc will be in the genetics of that seed. 


-pot


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## JESSE (Sep 10, 2007)

five foot by five foot ten foot tall sorry i dint give these earlier as i was saying i cant handle the heat of the hps i got and i cant find any near where i live right at the moment so i wanted to use the spiral cfls.ill put them all around if need be they are cheap and warranteed so i dont mind i just want to know if there is away they can produce better buds?


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## JESSE (Sep 10, 2007)

the hps i have is meant to use for a short while apparently cause it gets hot as hell and almost melted the electrical casing thingy.it doesnt have a cooling system but im afraid to rig it so ill just keep shopping.


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## potlike (Sep 10, 2007)

here I took a picture of my stanley fan this morning. If you hooked this up to the light and built a cooltube(example of cooltube diy), then you would have little to NO heat at all from that hps and one hell of a less electricity bill when compared to the cfls. Btw you'd be able to TOUCH and hold the cooltube which is less than an inch from the bulb with this setup.

To mod the Stanley fan(from walmart 39.99) all you do is get a 6 inch to 4 inch reducer. Duct tape the reducer to the casing of the fan then you can attach either pvc or duct work with more duct tape and run that to the HPS lamp

Also keep in mind take the freaking ballast away from the lamp and remotely mount it with some cut off electrical cable. To do a professional job... some 12/2 or 12/3 however 16/2 or 16/3 works as well. This would ensure one hell of a setup. The wiring diagram is usually printed inside anyways. It isn't rocket science just requires some patience to make sure you get it right then the next time you'll know EXACTLY what you are doing.



Enjoy!

-pot


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## JESSE (Sep 10, 2007)

the one i have really isnt that large anyways if im going to go shopping for supllies like the ones i would need for that ventilation system id just go ahead and buy another light but energy isnt much of a problem.if i knew how many bulbs or watts i would take i could figure out how high the bill will be or ask someone who is allready doing the same.....you really dont support cfls much do ya?sorry to sound rude if i do im not meaning to i just want to use whats allready available to me if i can.


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## potlike (Sep 10, 2007)

Ok, words aren't getting through to you... cfl's are fine but here is the math:

5x5=25 square feet
5000 recommended minimum lumens per square foot

5000x25= 125,000 MINIMUM lumens total

CFL: 40w= 2650 lumens=47.16 lights ~ 48 lights

48x40w=1920 Watts per hour

1920watts per hour x 12 hours=23040

23040 x 30 days in a month = 691200 watt hours a month

691200/1000 kw per hour=691.2

691.2 kw per hour times my cost of .18 a kwh = $124.000 a month
also = more of a red flag to power company = jail time for jesse


-pot


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## JESSE (Sep 10, 2007)

words arent getting thru cause you were using the wrong words instead of throwing a sales pitch,try facts they are easier to reason with.thankyou for finally getting to the point tho you have succeeded in convincing me i have some shopping to do what do you recomend?for that amount of space all of the last info inverted to whatever light you suggest would be helpful.thanx!


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## potlike (Sep 10, 2007)

Couple other questions.

1. Would you be happy splitting and shortening the grow room into separate vegetative areas and flowering areas.

2. How do you feel about having a few stations within your flowering, so that you can have a continual harvest. Maybe with any excess, just make hash?

3. What kind of budget constraints are you looking at here? We can still go cheap and get quality buds MUCH better than you have smoked on a consistent basis before.

4. How handy are you?

If you are handy how would you feel about modifying 






to work in soil grow. Looks badass, but take a closer look it is just pvc and you could put regular pots with soil and tilt the pvc to drain.

You could even just forget the pvc and sit potted plants in a circle around one HPS light all in one container to make sure they don't. With plants being strategically placed you optimize the efficiency of that light per plant even allowing lower branches to bloom.

Give me some input on those questions and ideas. If you are able to do it yourself on a few things(hardest one being lighting) you can save LOTS of money and have nothing but high quality dense stinky buds that knock you on your ass with one hit.

-pot


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## JESSE (Sep 11, 2007)

that could possibly be the most beautiful and ingenious thing ive seen since the grow wheel (the original grow wheel where the guy had like five in his garage and was busted)i can fucking build it too!!!ive got plenty enough cash to build twenty of those! do you have to rotate the plants so that they dont bend towards the light or are they just good to go? last night i had totally thought out what i believed was perfect to grow what i need now i donbt give a daqmn about that setup because it totally ruined a beautiful china cabinet that is probly older than i am.and i just found out an aquarium near my home sells lights of all different kinds i was going to have a look tonight.and if they dont have the light you need they will order it for ya!but as i said i gots four months of things to do first.DAMN IT ALL!


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## JESSE (Sep 12, 2007)

SHIT THAT AQUARIUM RULES!! they have all kinds of goodies,co2 administers,plant food and everylight you could think of exept cfls.the cheapest metal halide they have is 100$ with hookups,fans and everything. i dont ahve time to grow right now but in four and a half months im gonna be over there all the fuckin time.they even had a display of a metal halide setup that had those bulbs that emit daylight and has a blue spectrum bulb built in the normal one the setup had six of these bulbs that are over a foot long each and had built in intake and exhaust fans. the whole thing was maybe ten feet long and a foot thick but it emited a huge load of light.store said it cost them a couple grand when they bought it but prices have lowered since then.apparently each bulb was like 90$the store can order ANY light from anywhere with no questions or names asked if i pay cash.when i get back from training what is the cheapest fixture i should get i told you my demensions earlier but if you forgot then here it is 10 foot tall,5 foot by five foot wide plus deep.my closets gonna be purty.plus i want to make a tiny veg space out of a little dressor the demensions are19 inches tall,28 inches wide,and 14 inches deep.what lights should i use there?


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## natmoon (Sep 13, 2007)

th3bigbad said:


> the reason i said something about a tanning bed bulb is i have a tanning bed that i bought for my X. shes gone and its just in the way. it has 26 bulbs that are 100 watt. i havent been able to find any specs on them as far as color temp or UV rating. i wont use all of them, but im sure some of them will make it into a grow before long.
> i also just got a order of flibbertigibbets acid that im going to try in different stages of plant life as soon as i have my clone count up.


Those tanning bulbs do add a good amount of uv light into the grow room but apparently you have to be careful with them,the info i have is that running a 20 minute tanning cycle every 1-2 hours depending on the size of your grow room.
They should only be used from the second week of flowering as well.

This is all smalltalk that i have heard and i have not experimented with tanning tubes yet i plan to get a small facial tanner for my little cupboard and give it a try next grow


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## th3bigbad (Sep 13, 2007)

"flibbertigibbets acid" WTF LMAO
maybe some1 should tell Mr rollitup the quoter is drunk again lol


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## natmoon (Sep 13, 2007)

I knew that would get your attention,i is using firefox browser and if it sees a spelling error it underlines it in red and if i right click on it,it makes spelling correction suggestions,that was the suggestion for gib acid thought it might make ya laugh lol


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## th3bigbad (Sep 13, 2007)

i use fire fox 2, but i didnt know about the spelling corrector. learn sumthin new every day i guess huh lol
from what ive read useing uv bulbs should only be done for a max of 1 hour per day. you can brake that up anyway you want. i was thinking 10 mins every 2 hours. keeping the time the lights are on short and spaced out seems like it would give the plants time to recover some. something else to think about is upping the time the lights are on slowly to say 20 mins in the last week or so of flowering to pack on the tris. but its all just talk and thoughts for now. when i get enough plants to play with ill be doing a few different things to see what works and what kills. 
if you start to use any kind of uv adders pm me. id love to see how things work out for ya.


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## natmoon (Sep 13, 2007)

Way i had figured it is that the sun blazes down on them all day long with uv so using them even all day long wouldnt be a problem as long as they are at the correct distance to emit just enough uv to be usefull to the plants and not be so close as to give them a tan.

I think the real question here is how far they should be away to maintain uv absorption and not get sunburn so to speak and this would also depend on the exact bulbs rating that were used,not to mention the heat issues generated from the unit itself.

Im going to use a small facial tanner very cheap and im going to aim it at most 12" away from the tops on one side of the grow room and see what happens,i will start of with the 20 minute cycle every hour and see what happens if this is ok i will increase it until i see any sign that they dont like it,then decrease accordingly.

Should be fun lol.


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## potlike (Sep 14, 2007)

I can't find it again but I found a chart with uvb levels at various times of the day. At noon the UVB was highest so my thinking was what if we were able to put the lights on a dimmer and control that. Then again at noon is when the sun will expose uvb at the most useful readings to us around 315nm.... Since a reptile light is already there it wouldn't serve much of a purpose dimming... My guess on optimal exposure though would be around the 4-5 hour range.

Something else that came to mind was large amounts of UVB is absorbed by ozone in nature. What happens when we introduce ozone generators for smell in our grow rooms?

-pot


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## th3bigbad (Sep 14, 2007)

potlike said:


> Something else that came to mind was large amounts of UVB is absorbed by ozone in nature. What happens when we introduce ozone generators for smell in our grow rooms?
> 
> -pot


good point pot.
there are some oder killers that use uv rays to kill smells, some tattoo shops use uva to kill germs. a wide range uv bulb may have some added side bonuses.


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## brainstorm (Sep 14, 2007)

just out of interest how many plants did you grow


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## th3bigbad (Sep 14, 2007)

brainstorm said:


> just out of interest how many plants did you grow


who are u asking?


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## potroast (Sep 15, 2007)

potlike said:


> Something else that came to mind was large amounts of UVB is absorbed by ozone in nature. What happens when we introduce ozone generators for smell in our grow rooms?
> 
> -pot



We don't use ozone generators IN our growroom, we use them to treat the exhausted air as it is leaving. Using ozone around your plants will rob the plants of odor, too.

On another note, one thing I remember reading about UV tubes is that the UV rays are good for close to a meter away from the tube, rather than the 6 inches that light is beneficial.

HTH


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## potlike (Sep 15, 2007)

other benefits of ozone though is that it kills fungus and other bacteria.... also heard somewhere act as a deterrent for spidermites.

-pot


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## bill (Sep 30, 2007)

You say you have a background in statistics.

If so, are you familiar with Minitab data analysis software?

I would try a designed experiment using a response surface design. Specifically, I would at least start with a face-centered central composite design since you probably want to "maximize" more than one response. There might be an issue because the responses would be categorical data and it would would be hard to get certified "panelists" to judge, say, "high" and "taste". 

Then use stepwise regression to optimize the model.

Gather your data and use multiple response optimzation to get the "magic formula"

I suppose you could try to extract and quantify the THC and CBD content via GCMS or HPLC, but discreet access to that analytical hardware might be tough as well as finding a qualified person to use it and interpret the resulting spectra.

I am available for contract consultation if you want to PM me


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## Slothrules (Jun 8, 2009)

potlike said:


> I have an educational background in economics and statistics; so if anyone had any theories they would like to test on ways we can improve various aspects of our growing I would be willing to work with you and intrepret data on a scientifically sound level so we could setup experiments in whatever theory it may be.
> 
> Could be nutrient vs nutrient efficiency, EXACT optimal lumens for given strain, trichome development.... you name it - I can interpret the data to laymen terms in exact percentages of efficiency etc etc.
> 
> -pot


Hey Potlike, Great idea!! triggered mine  I am trying to get a grower group together to do research. Statistics is not my strong point would be great to have you on board!! I have a thread in this forum


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## born2killspam (Jun 8, 2009)

The problem with analyzing dope growing (especially over the internet) from a statistical POV is that a giant number of things sum themselves up to create a huge standard deviation of expectation value.. Thats why the show Numb3rs pisses me off so much.. If you know statistics, you understand the importance of variable control, and can't just send guys with guns somewhere after doing a tidbit of arithmetic on a partial data set..
Ben Franklin said "There are three types of lies in the world.. Lies, DAMDED LIES, and statistics..
Weeding through anecdotes has brought growing a long way though, and although I skimmed through alot, thats what this thread seems to be..


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## woodsmantoker (Jun 10, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> The problem with analyzing dope growing (especially over the internet) from a statistical POV is that a giant number of things sum themselves up to create a huge standard deviation of expectation value.. Thats why the show Numb3rs pisses me off so much.. If you know statistics, you understand the importance of variable control, and can't just send guys with guns somewhere after doing a tidbit of arithmetic on a partial data set..
> Ben Franklin said "There are three types of lies in the world.. Lies, DAMDED LIES, and statistics..
> Weeding through anecdotes has brought growing a long way though, and although I skimmed through alot, thats what this thread seems to be..


 
Hey

Thought I would drop a note, I was considering running an experiment using two separate Phenos from the same mother to determine "statistical consistency?" of each. Once the data is in, Finding, breeding, and crossing could result in an improved strain. You up for it? 
I am working with Arjans Haze #2.

THREAD https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/199600-under-cabin-woods-ak-auh-8.html


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## born2killspam (Jun 10, 2009)

What do you mean?? Run some numbers through some stats software??


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## potlike (Sep 7, 2009)

Sorry, I've been inactive for awhile everyone but if you wish I'll help out wherever I can. If you have any efficiency or data that you want me to run let me know or maybe we can do mutual experimenting.



-potlike


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## Gamberro (Sep 7, 2009)

potlike said:


> I just did some math it would take about 181 CFL @ 13w each to = lumen output of a 1000w hps


Have to take into consideration that luminosity is increased due to the close-distance output of the light.


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## potlike (Sep 7, 2009)

Gamberro said:


> Have to take into consideration that luminosity is increased due to the close-distance output of the light.


You also have to take into consideration the Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density of the CFL vs the 1000w hps and 1000's of other variables.


-potlike


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## born2killspam (Sep 8, 2009)

Who cares about lumens, you're not a city engineer planning a street light layout.. Whats the PAR ratio like??


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## xXkillerklownXx (Sep 11, 2009)

i just planted my aurora indica seeds yesterday and watered them yesterday, should i wait till tuesday to water again or keep them alittle damp?


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## potlike (Sep 11, 2009)

xXkillerklownXx said:


> i just planted my aurora indica seeds yesterday and watered them yesterday, should i wait till tuesday to water again or keep them alittle damp?


this really isn't the place for this question, but water when your soil starts to feel dry to the touch and water it until it comes out your drainage holes in the bottom of your container.


-potlike


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