# Roots Above Ground



## Beansly (Sep 17, 2010)

I know its an old school technique; I dont know the official technique name, but
basically, when you transplant your growing plant into another larger one, and instead of planting the rootball completely with soil, you make it so the top part of the root ball above the soil line so the actually show. The roots turn into some thick stem looking things.

My question is, what, if any impact does growing this way have on the yield/speed/size.quality?
I've heard ppl do this to better aerate the roots but idk


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## Auzzie07 (Sep 17, 2010)

I'm no expert, but this just doesn't sound like a good idea for a couple reasons: 1.) Roots would be exposed to light. 2.) Exposed roots would be more likely to rot/mold.

Maybe I'm wrong. But it would look more like an old ass tree with roots partially above ground. It'd look like a cool bonsai tree.


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## Beansly (Sep 18, 2010)

Auzzie07 said:


> I'm no expert, but this just doesn't sound like a good idea for a couple reasons: 1.) Roots would be exposed to light. 2.) Exposed roots would be more likely to rot/mold.
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong. But it would look more like an old ass tree with roots partially above ground. It'd look like a cool bonsai tree.


Youd think so, but there was an article in High Times a few years ago about how great it was i just cant remember what it said,


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## Killer Vanilla (Sep 18, 2010)

the only obvious advantage i see is just extra room... i imagined the old soil root ball only 1/4 in the new pot so its quite abit higher than the pot instead of only having abit more room to go downwards it would have even extra 

but then again the bigger pot you transplant into the less need for it

i bet theres a better reason thou thats all i could see


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## genisis (Sep 18, 2010)

I do this all of the time when transplanting from 3 gallon pot to 7 gallon. I leave the root ball exposed about 6-8 inches. All that happens is the roots stop growing out and resume growing down. The only problem I have had is water spilling over the top of the 7 gallon pot, if you do not center the transplant.


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## bigv1976 (Sep 18, 2010)

This is actually beneficial for a grow. The light will dehydrate the exposed roots promoting root branching on the parts of the roots that remain in the soil unexposed.


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## GNOME GROWN (Sep 18, 2010)

buddy of mine does this and grows some killer buds!..like you said in the first post,the roots turn into these solid thick roots,almost looks like roots from a big ass tree that are on the top of the dirt before they go down!...ive never tryed it just cause i dont like the looks of it at all and im a strong beliver that roots DONT LIKE LIGHT!....but like i said a buddy of mine grows killer buds and his roots always show at the top!

WITH ROOTS ABOVE AND BRANCHES BELOW (The Devil Wears Prada)


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## Beansly (Sep 18, 2010)

GNOME GROWN said:


> buddy of mine does this and grows some killer buds!..like you said in the first post,the roots turn into these solid thick roots,almost looks like roots from a big ass tree that are on the top of the dirt before they go down!...ive never tryed it just cause i dont like the looks of it at all and im a strong beliver that roots DONT LIKE LIGHT!....but like i said a buddy of mine grows killer buds and his roots always show at the top!
> 
> WITH ROOTS ABOVE AND BRANCHES BELOW (The Devil Wears Prada)


I respect your devotion to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is *nudge*nudge jk lol


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## GNOME GROWN (Sep 18, 2010)

whats so wrong about it?....


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## Beansly (Sep 18, 2010)

GNOME GROWN said:


> whats so wrong about it?....


it was a joke...

I dont know that you are wrong. It was recommended by high times for some reason. Theres gotta be some value to it.


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## GNOME GROWN (Sep 18, 2010)

i agree....


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## mushroom head (Sep 18, 2010)

Hmmm weird, might try it.


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## Beansly (Sep 18, 2010)

Well i looked for pics but I dont know the name of the technique. I just wish you could see it.......theres gotta be _some_thing to it.


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## Auzzie07 (Sep 18, 2010)

I will gladly change my ways and begin to use that technique if we can find some scientific evidence or even a grow journal that supports the idea.


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## Beansly (Sep 20, 2010)

Auzzie07 said:


> I will gladly change my ways and begin to use that technique if we can find some scientific evidence or even a grow journal that supports the idea.


 _i will gladly change my way if you blah blah blah...
_
Why does everything some says on this site has to be "proven" with some sort of citation? This isn't college, your just a stoner on this site, no matter how smart or how many degrees you have. If I wanna give a citation I will, otherwise, if you care so much about trying it (or proving me wrong) look it up your self on that_ big world wide web thingie.
_All I said was that i saw it in high times, and HT is like the pot head news (no matter how many bullshit advertisments they stick in it). People who have grown a lot longer, and probably a lot more, than you use this technique. You can do whatever you want my little huckleberry.

All I can say I growing is a science and an art, you cant just stop leaning shit because you have figured out a way that works for you. Theres information and techniques out there to be learned that can open your eyes to things you never thought you try. So read a book...


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## Jungle Crown (Sep 20, 2010)

This technique sounds interesting. Does it shock the roots into rapid growth right after a transplant. I might try this.


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## Auzzie07 (Sep 21, 2010)

Beansly said:


> _i will gladly change my way if you blah blah blah...
> _
> Why does everything some says on this site has to be "proven" with some sort of citation? This isn't college, your just a stoner on this site, no matter how smart or how many degrees you have. If I wanna give a citation I will, otherwise, if you care so much about trying it (or proving me wrong) look it up your self on that_ big world wide web thingie.
> _All I said was that i saw it in high times, and HT is like the pot head news (no matter how many bullshit advertisments they stick in it). People who have grown a lot longer, and probably a lot more, than you use this technique. You can do whatever you want my little huckleberry.
> ...


Whoa, calm down, amigo. I'm just saying that there is probably some evidence on whether or not this is a good idea on the internet. Whether it be at RIT, or on another forum, or on a university's horticulture department website. The information is certainly out there somewhere with some evidence.

And as far as some stoner on a site...that doesn't simplify a person down to simply that. Everyone of us is a complex person beyond the stoner persona you've given us. But anyway, didn't want to step on your toes, it just sounds unnatural. That's all I'll leave it at.


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## sirwolf (Sep 21, 2010)

i did this on accident to one of my plants a while ago. she seems very well tho. 6 weeks into 12/12. she does have some gnarly thick roots, very pretty, really.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 21, 2010)

Beansly said:


> Youd think so, but there was an article in High Times a few years ago about how great it was i just cant remember what it said,


HT is full of cheese. It's just a bad idea for this particular plant species. You don't need adventitious (anchoring) non feeding roots. That root profile works well for corn farmers who have to deal with wind damage from storms. Having said that, it is common for cannabis to produce adventitious roots later on in its life cycle, doesn't mean it does the plant any good. It's usually a result of soil in the pot settling over time and the exposed root mass lignifying. I just add soil to bring the level back up in the pot while maintaining at least an inch watering well.

The proper way to upcan, the "Bendejo Way",  is to strip the bottom most leaf petioles off the plant, at least those that are marginally healthy, and bury that sucker as deep as you can. Anyone that has grown tomatoes (or cannabis) knows the value of this drill - it produces an incredible mass of roots along the submerged trunk which results in increased uptake of water and salts. Burying the trunk deep is a product of common sense botany, not some bullshit gimmick designed to sell magazines to noobs.

As a gardener, your focus should only be on the development and maintenance of roots and foliage. 

Good luck,
UB


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## genisis (Sep 21, 2010)

Having used this technique for the last 6 years, and having not read high times since the second issue, I believe calling this technique a bad idea is - well, a bad idea. I originally started to step transplanted root balls to give the tap roots more room to stretch. The result is a solid bud ball that fills the second pot. The plants grow well and the harvest weight is acceptable, so I would call it a success - not a bad idea.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 21, 2010)

genisis said:


> Having used this technique for the last 6 years, and having not read high times since the second issue, I believe calling this technique a bad idea is - well, a bad idea. I originally started to step transplanted root balls to give the tap roots more room to stretch. The result is a solid bud ball that fills the second pot. The plants grow well and the harvest weight is acceptable, so I would call it a success - not a bad idea.


Apples and oranges. Your issue is one of using too small a pot. Simple - use a larger pot.

Setting the rootball high when upcanning aint gonna do a thing but harden off and dessicate the exposed roots. Your goal (should be) to increase the root mass, not decrease it. One method is root tip termination via chemical or air pruning means, such as this: https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html Give me a scientific explanation regarding the botanical benefits of raising the rootball and I may buy into it. I won't buy into forum anecodotal evidence, member parroting, popular opinion, personal feelings, etc.

There are varying degrees of success. One's wonderful yeild of popcorn buds may be another's huge disappointment.

UB


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## Magnificient (Sep 21, 2010)

I worked at a nursery when I was a kid. We had a saying, plant it high, it won't die, plant it low and it won't grow. That's true for most nursery plants, but not especially true for plants like marijuana and tomatoes. It's usually better to plant the roots and a little bit of the stem.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 21, 2010)

Magnificient said:


> I worked at a nursery when I was a kid. We had a saying, plant it high, it won't die, plant it low and it won't grow. That's true for most nursery plants, but not especially true for plants like marijuana and tomatoes. It's usually better to plant the roots and a little bit of the stem.


Perenials versus annuals, reason why I made that distinction.


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## anomolies (Sep 22, 2010)

I think it really doesn't matter. I have plants that naturally do this. If the roots are exposed they harden and thicken. If stems are partially buried they start growing roots.

I wish people would spend more time doing controlled experiments to test things like this and come back with the results (aka pictures, proof)
rather than starting pointless threads that go no where.


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## Beansly (Sep 22, 2010)

anomolies said:


> I think it really doesn't matter. I have plants that naturally do this. If the roots are exposed they harden and thicken. If stems are partially buried they start growing roots.
> 
> I wish people would spend more time doing controlled experiments to test things like this and come back with the results (aka pictures, proof)
> rather than starting pointless threads that go no where.


It doesnt go nowhere....
You take every jerk-offs opinion for what its worth, evaluate all the little opinions and answers to your question or thread, and you decide what you believe. 
You know what they say about opinions and assholes..

_Now im just gonna go down to my spare laboratory and start my controlled experiments.. that I have.._


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## anomolies (Sep 22, 2010)

Beansly said:


> It doesnt go nowhere....
> You take every jerk-offs opinion for what its worth, evaluate all the little opinions and answers to your question or thread, and you decide what you believe.
> You know what they say about opinions and assholes..
> 
> _Now im just gonna go down to my spare laboratory and start my controlled experiments.. that I have.._


all you need to do is do this method on a couple plants, and compare it with the ones which you didn't do anything with the roots... jerkoff... just kiddin


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 22, 2010)

anomolies said:


> I think it really doesn't matter. I have plants that naturally do this. If the roots are exposed they harden and thicken. If stems are partially buried they start growing roots.


You made my point. In general, higher amounts of root mass (and leaves) = higher yields. I don't know why folks get all worked up about bud production when they should be focused ONLY on good root and foliage production/maintenance. Time to think outside of the box folks!

I think some may get confused because of popular tree planting guides where it is believed that planting a little too high will not be harmful but planting deep will not only reduce vigor but may kill it. Your call.....

I'm beginning to think there are no tomato growers here. I have taken a tall tomato seedling, dug a 2" deep trench, laid about 8" of the trunk in the trench with the little rootball, covered with soil and later inspected the root system come frost. Needless to say, there is a huge flush of roots along the buried stem. As an aside, my caged tomato plants are now a wimpy 7' tall and 6' wide. 

Stay rooted in common sense,
UB


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## jewgrow (Sep 22, 2010)

My most successful transplant: Dads castings have tomato seeds. So next to the sunflowers a nice 9" tomato plant went about unseen until I decided to rip it out. I ripped it out quite perfectly and felt bad so i decided to just plant the thing in the ground. Those are gonna be my late tomatoes


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## genisis (Sep 22, 2010)

You know, this is one of the reasons I hesitate to respond to posts here. When you do respond - with real life cannabis growing experience - to try to help someone out, you get lessons in technical speak about growing tomatoes. You also tend to get snarky comments like, "One's wonderful yeild of popcorn buds may be another's huge disappointment." 
Although I do not know what a yeild is, I sure can recognize an attempted put down when I read one. So I feel all chastised now, and am on my way to my garden, to tell my plants how stupid they are - for not being tomatoes.


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 22, 2010)

genisis said:


> You know, this is one of the reasons I hesitate to respond to posts here. When you do respond - with real life cannabis growing experience - to try to help someone out, you get lessons in technical speak about growing tomatoes. You also tend to get snarky comments like, "One's wonderful yeild of popcorn buds may be another's huge disappointment."
> Although I do not know what a yeild is, I sure can recognize an attempted put down when I read one. So I feel all chastised now, and am on my way to my garden, to tell my plants how stupid they are - for not being tomatoes.


Sounds like someone has a bean up his butt hehe.


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## jewgrow (Sep 22, 2010)

genisis said:


> You know, this is one of the reasons I hesitate to respond to posts here. When you do respond - with real life cannabis growing experience - to try to help someone out, you get lessons in technical speak about growing tomatoes. You also tend to get snarky comments like, "One's wonderful yeild of popcorn buds may be another's huge disappointment."
> Although I do not know what a yeild is, I sure can recognize an attempted put down when I read one. So I feel all chastised now, and am on my way to my garden, to tell my plants how stupid they are - for not being tomatoes.



I'm sorry...did you say you don't know what a yield is...?


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## littleflavio (Sep 22, 2010)

my cheese is doing these by itself...theres nothing i can do but to pile soil on top of it, but whenever i water eventually the soil will run-off...i guess its just normal if you ask me, cant fight mother nature. anyways my cheese use to look lame, now it kinda gets bushy. for some reason i dont know if that helps or its just maturing into flowering...other than that it doesnt really damage ur plant. oh btw im planting on the ground


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## rsharp (Sep 27, 2010)

genisis said:


> You know, this is one of the reasons I hesitate to respond to posts here. When you do respond - with real life cannabis growing experience - to try to help someone out, you get lessons in technical speak about growing tomatoes. You also tend to get snarky comments like, "One's wonderful yeild of popcorn buds may be another's huge disappointment."
> Although I do not know what a yeild is, I sure can recognize an attempted put down when I read one. So I feel all chastised now, and am on my way to my garden, to tell my plants how stupid they are - for not being tomatoes.


 
WOW, i dont post i would much rather read. ive done a lot of reading on this site and 90% of it is ignorance. ignorance comming from ignorant growers. I am no fanboy i just like the facts. One person that knows their facts is Uncle Ben. if u take someones info over Uncle Bens then you just need to stop growing b/cyour not gonna get anywhere. i finally got tired of hearing non-sence posts. come on now. you dont make any sence. if you dont know what a yield is then your behind me. you deff. dont need to post anything. read up buddy! read up!


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## Magnificient (Sep 27, 2010)

genisis said:


> You know, this is one of the reasons I hesitate to respond to posts here. When you do respond - with real life cannabis growing experience - to try to help someone out, you get lessons in technical speak about growing tomatoes. You also tend to get snarky comments like, "One's wonderful yeild of popcorn buds may be another's huge disappointment."
> Although I do not know what a yeild is, I sure can recognize an attempted put down when I read one. So I feel all chastised now, and am on my way to my garden, to tell my plants how stupid they are - for not being tomatoes.


If you can grow a tomato, you can grow marijuana. Don't know what your problem is man, but it's all about growing.


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## Kevdogg5555 (Sep 28, 2010)

interesting because i have a topped plant right now and when i transplanted i messed up and had the main top roots sticking out. Its been over two months roots have been exposed to sun and have turned a greenish tint. They dont look like the healthiest roots by this sucker has the massive buds with lots of weight and the plant over it doing good


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## Noobmeister (Sep 29, 2010)

If anybody has a bean up their ass it's Uncle Ben. I guess he didn't fry his rice right. Buddy is asking for help and you come out all high and mighty right away with blockhead comments and pretty insulting at that. This form RIU, is for people to learn and for people to practice new techniques or other ideas that other people have suggested or even that one has considered or discovered on their own. It's not for cutting people up, telling them how stupid they are, or making ignorant ass remarks. Yes, it's not logical that pulling the roots out would help the plant in any way, and frankly I agree with you, Uncle Ben, but this is a pot form, not a heroin addiction form, so there is no need for snap comments and rude remarks.

Stay happy - learn to grow, teach to grow, and just fucking grow!


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## Uncle Ben (Sep 29, 2010)

Noobmeister said:


> If anybody has a bean up their ass it's Uncle Ben........ so there is no need for snap comments and rude remarks.


Shut the fuck up.

Hope that helps,
UB


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## Noobmeister (Sep 30, 2010)

Your intelligence and lack of ignorance astounds me! Take that STFU out of your ass and stick it up your nose!


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## ghb (Sep 30, 2010)

Noobmeister said:


> Your intelligence and lack of ignorance astounds me! Take that STFU out of your ass and stick it up your nose!


you got them the wrong way round i think, but i agree, always with the high and mighty i know everything, you are wrong bullsh*t


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## Rollbluntz (Sep 30, 2010)

This kind of is happening to me. Whats weird though is a sprout of some kind is coming from exposed roots. It looks just like a seedling but this is just a main stalk. When I lst'd this plant it pulled it up a little bit because I was stoned and didn't tie the countertie right. Anyone ever seen this shit before?


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## tsky (Sep 30, 2010)

its not a problem at all outdoors its even an advantage in wet weather as if soil becomes waterlogged some roots are above the soil and can always get oxygen.
3/4 fill a pot when the plants rootbound pull it out add the remaining 1/4 soil put the plant back in and the soil above the level of the pot is eroded away by rain ect leaving exposed roots.
btw i heard this from a video of soma talking about some of his techniques on youtube search soma speaks theres about 6 parts each around 10mins each, i havnt personally done it but that mother fucker knows his shit.


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## Beansly (Oct 1, 2010)

Yeah, I'm gonna look into it a little ore myself, cause the ones I accidentally did plant that way (it's called step transplanting I think), turned out a little more vigorous and healthier looking. Then again one did turn out to be male, but take that for what you will.

I think the point is to get more oxygen to the roots...idk--
Exposing the roots to more and more air through each transplanting must be the point. With all the new mediums like coco and new grow techniques like DWC, it seems a little antiquated, but still a simple technique for soil growers.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 1, 2010)

Beansly said:


> ....Exposing the roots to more and more air through each transplanting must be the point. With all the new mediums like coco and new grow techniques like DWC, it seems a little antiquated, but still a simple technique for soil growers.


If it's not an accepted, normal practice performed by professional greenhouse managers or nurserymen (and it's not), then it's more of the same old cannabis bullshit. BOG who has/had a pulpit for noobs to preach to, started the stair-stepping transplanting hype back at the old OG site...... whereby those too afraid to use conventional upcanning methods would cut out the bottom of their pots and set them in a larger pot of fresh soil the intent being that the roots would move downward into the fresh soil. Like much of such <cough> "advanced techniques", this lame practice comes with a host of problems - plant stability, fact that the feeder roots are not 2' deep but rather closer to the top, effectiveness, etc.

Coco is not new, it's been used by orchid growers (me) for over 40 years. 

There is nothing "new" in this biz of growing plants, unless you want it to be. It's a "feel good" thingie.

UB


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## kingofqueen (Oct 1, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Shut the fuck up.
> 
> Hope that helps,
> UB


LMAO ! I'll take UNcle Ben's advice right along with snard remarks, bean up his butt or not you will learn from him ! Hell everyone who is serious about growing practices on tomatoes got a mess of them outside myself !  Love all the drama ! lol


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## cowell (Oct 1, 2010)

I have no clue about it- my plants- whether MJ or tomatoes or corn etc all have their roots covered....but I do have enough respect for UB as a grower - with more than enough experience under his belt to be able to tell someone "don't do it-it's pointless" - and assume there's likely something sound behind it. 

His topping guild is everyone's point of reference on the topic so it seems.. and I know I used it my first time to achieve the expected results. I wish he would chime in on some of my "advanced growing technique" questions - although I'm sure what his answers would be from his other posts. (example -defoliation.. I know he would say "bad idea" as he always says totes the "roots and leaves are the most important thing").. I find it amusing that such new growers (notice I didn't say noobies... as I just joined a site the other day and am a noobie there.. but I have enough grows under my belt to try and be a useful source of info -or so I like to think-) dismiss his advice so readily. 

I am still of the mindset that I don't know enough to NOT try certain things to find out results for myself - I still value the input of proven growers offering sound advice.

and UB is far from being chastising when he said "some people's popcorn harvest is some people's... whatever he said".. but it made me laugh when I read it because it's accurate. When you read some people's threads where they harvest 5g's fluff from an LED grow and think they are a pioneer who just proved how amazing you can grow with a flashlight and some aerated molasses - they are happy with that.. but I'm pissed if I don't get at least half lb every 3 weeks out of my perpetual grow. I would have been WAY more condescending and likely not give you as concise a reply. 

I just think it's funny when guys like UB, RIU, Potroast, FDD get told to go fuck their hat by people who don't know what a yield is... thanks for the chuckle.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 1, 2010)

cowell said:


> I have no clue about it- my plants- whether MJ or tomatoes or corn etc all have their roots covered....but I do have enough respect for UB as a grower - with more than enough experience under his belt to be able to tell someone "don't do it-it's pointless" - and assume there's likely something sound behind it.
> 
> His topping guild is everyone's point of reference on the topic so it seems.. and I know I used it my first time to achieve the expected results. I wish he would chime in on some of my "advanced growing technique" questions - although I'm sure what his answers would be from his other posts. (example -defoliation.. I know he would say "bad idea" as he always says totes the "roots and leaves are the most important thing").. I find it amusing that such new growers (notice I didn't say noobies... as I just joined a site the other day and am a noobie there.. but I have enough grows under my belt to try and be a useful source of info -or so I like to think-) dismiss his advice so readily.
> 
> ...


LOL. Thanks for the witty post.


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## Noobmeister (Oct 1, 2010)

I was being sarcastic about the intelligence part. . .


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## Noobmeister (Oct 1, 2010)

Ya, I laughed about it too, but I am not gonna be an ignorant pretentious prick about it. I agree with what UB said, it's the manner in which he said it. BTW - topping is a noob technique. It hurts and stalls the growth just as much as this questioned technique of pulling the plant out a bit to expose the roots. Neither is worse than the other really. You want to increase colas, bend the damn thing, don't cut it. You know the saying, "Leaf the leaves alone". But shit, who am I to say that. I only get half a p of 1 litre to 2 litre pop bottle sized colas (Usually 4 of them) off my 1 to 1 and 1/2 foot tall bent P.O.S. plants. . . Topping is great if you are limited in plant quantity and you don't care about the extra week it costs you, sometimes two. . . but for those of us that have a consistent and reliable schedule and more beauties which we could need and ask for, topping is a pain in the ass and just slows us down and reduces the yield, read a book about it and you'll understand what I am talking about. But, for those of you that do like to top and have the time and means to do so and don't care about the extra harvest you could be getting in a year's time, then shit, I have read UB's topping thread and I like it too. nothing wrong about it, although personally I would rather FIM, you get MORE colas that way if you do it right.

Now, in regards to pulling the plant out a bit, this is actually a great technique for larger plants (6 feet + typically) as long as you cover the base of the plant with black garbage bags, cardboard, a wood box with an adjustable hole covering that you can assemble around the stalk and over the roots |-| if you get what I mean, keep in mind it does have to have holes drilled into it so that the air can be constantly exchanged for the roots underneath. . . My recommended method would be to use a small garbage can, cut it in half and cut out a nice sized hole in the bottom of it, flip it upside down and throw this around the base of the plant. If there is too much space between the stalk and the hole you cut for it, fill in the gap with garbage bag or something else that works, and don't forget to drill those holes in the side. The purpose of this garbage can or wooden box shield is to keep the light from damaging the roots and forcing them to begin to produce chlorophyll and other chemicals and hormones that will convert the root to stem.

Hope that answers your question and helps some of the curious people out there. I read about a technique like this in a medical marijuana bible which I have.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 2, 2010)

Noobmeister said:


> Ya, I laughed about it too, but I am not gonna be an ignorant pretentious prick about it. I agree with what UB said, it's the manner in which he said it.


If you had read and put up with corrective posts regarding all the cannabis forum bullshit, feel-good tech talk for 15 years, you'd be short on patience too. Now.........if you need some warm fuzzies and touchy-feely action from The Herd, you best stay away from me and my posts. 

Also, there's nothing I dislike more than posers (and that includes parrots). IOW, if I feel up to the chase.......

*For example (& here we go again).........*



> BTW - topping is a noob technique. It hurts and stalls the growth just as much as this questioned technique


No it doesn't. If your plant doesn't respond within 24 hours with new output, then you've got problems other than topping techniques witness my first photo in the 4 main cola sticky. 



> Topping is great if you are limited in plant quantity and you don't care about the extra week it costs you, sometimes two. . . but for those of us that have a consistent and reliable schedule and more beauties which we could need and ask for, topping is a pain in the ass and just slows us down and reduces the yield, read a book about it and you'll understand what I am talking about.


"Extra week"? Sorry, but you don't know shit. I've been growing thousands of plant materials for 40 years, and that includes cannabis. Having said that, what "book" are you referring to, "How to apply gimmicks and snake oils in order to fail?" by IBeeAhNewb




> But, for those of you that do like to top and have the time and means to do so and don't care about the extra harvest you could be getting in a year's time, then shit, I have read UB's topping thread and I like it too. nothing wrong about it, although personally I would rather FIM, you get MORE colas that way if you do it right.


FIM, sheesh, that says it all. According to the accepted forum *F*uck *I* *M*issed technique, it's nothing more than conventional topping methods. The REAL FIM technique (not that I would endorse or practice it as it's about as questionable and unreliable as can be) was cutting midway thru a node to induce multiple outputs just below the cut.



> .....The purpose of this garbage can or wooden box shield is to keep the light from damaging the roots and forcing them to begin to produce chlorophyll and other chemicals and hormones that will convert the root to stem.


Is that right? And just how much hormones and chemicals do they produce LOL?

I quit........

UB


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## kingofqueen (Oct 2, 2010)

Oh shit thats funny stuff , I feel you there UB I,m sure you answer a buttload of questions and it gets makes you mad when ppl chime in without reading everything . So that guy was downing on topping then ended with supporting FIMing . LOL I"d quit too ! 

I think every one ends up with different techniques that work for them and their enviroment and space limitations. Hell I,m doing all LST I can say it works great but with one grow using I<M no expert right ? , so I,m not gonna say it's the best way shit if you got no patience it will drive you nuts all the tieing and re tieing sure i,m gonna have to support my colas too. But I got the time and I,m enjoying working with the plants .

I got a runt I havent trained yet mabey I,ll top it to see how it works for me . I,m sure in the future I,d like a leave it alone technique.
I"M still a newb I,d guess you'd say but thats the fun part right being facinated with all the newness and learning different stuff I,m having a ball growing and appying what I learn from RIU . 

As for some of these mythical tecniques I stick with advice my Dad gave me a long time ago " If it works so damn great everyone would be doing it " It would be the norm like you say if it's not somthing you see in nurserys or commercial growing it's bullshit !


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 2, 2010)

kingofqueen said:


> ....I think every one ends up with different techniques that work for them and their enviroment and space limitations.


That pretty much sums it up. Good on ya!




> As for some of these mythical tecniques I stick with advice my Dad gave me a long time ago " If it works so damn great everyone would be doing it " It would be the norm like you say if it's not somthing you see in nurserys or commercial growing it's bullshit !


Yep, something like...... "If sugar was so wonderful it would be sold as fertilizer." I network and hang with professional growers and have seen every trick in the book. 

I think my favorite forum paradigm is the flushing drill LOL. Next would come, say......"you can't give a plant too much light." 

UB


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## DankBudzzz (Oct 2, 2010)

I've noticed something wierd on my second grow and I attribute it to superthrive, My roots are growing new shoots above ground goin up to the first set of true leaves....Everytime I bury it more it continues to grow new root shoots...This is not stressful to the plant is it?


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 2, 2010)

DankBudzzz said:


> I've noticed something wierd on my second grow and I attribute it to superthrive, My roots are growing new shoots above ground goin up to the first set of true leaves....Everytime I bury it more it continues to grow new root shoots...This is not stressful to the plant is it?


No, not stressful. Got a photo? 

You must realize that there are dormant buds located at different points along the plant, most being at the nodes. Bury a node and it will produce root output (which results in increased yields all else equal). Apply certain hormonal actions above ground and you may get foliar output.

Superthrive and other external hormonals/chemicals can produce weird results, most time not what you want. There is no need to use Superthrive. If it makes you feel better, use 10 drops/gal. as a drench after an upcanning session. No need for it thereafter (in spite of the label hype).

UB


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## Smrt (Oct 2, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Superthrive and other external hormonals/chemicals can produce weird results, most time not what you want. There is no need to use Superthrive. If it makes you feel better, use 10 drops/gal. as a drench after an upcanning session. No need for it thereafter (in spite of the label hype).
> 
> UB


Right on UB. So many people think SuperThrive is the answer to everything that grows. I keep saying it's not. The label hype is just that, no real proof of everything they claim on the label. I dont use the stuff anymore, stopped buying it years ago. I use very little of anything, I stick to my nutes mainly and maybe the odd shot of humic/fulvic and my h2o2. Waste of money, thats just my opinion but when I see someone like you backing up what I think in my head, all the more reason for me not to use the crap. Thanks.


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## Noobmeister (Oct 2, 2010)

Wowie, they say ignorance is bliss. . . You prove it time and time again. Ya, okay, so it takes 24 hours to resume growing after topping, and the growth you will arrive at in a weeks time will be half that if you had chosen not to cut it at all, that is, depending how quickly or late you chose to top.

To answer your ignorance is bliss comments, I will refer to the "Marijuana Horticulture: The Indoor/Outdoor Medical Grower's Bible by Jorge Cervantes, judging by your ignorance I wouldn't be surprised that you have no idea who that is. . .

If you have the book (Which any basic, newb, ammature grower should always have at LEAST one book similar if not this exact one to begin your collection with) you can turn to page 51, and continue on to page which will cover everything from Pruning and Bending, Pruning (Pinching is better than topping actually, read a book or two, you learn a bit no matter how ignorant you are. . . OH LOOK, what does it say here: "Topping diffuses floral hormones. The hormones (Auxins) prevent the lateral buds from growing very fast." Above this you will find, "The MOST SUCCESSFUL growers do NOT top at all, especially if growing a short clone crop that is only two to three feet (61-91cm) tall. Short clone crops require no pruning to increase light to bottom leaves or to alter their profile. "NO PRUNING AKA TOPPING" is the easiest and most productive method when growth short cash crops."
Following, "*Not pruning* has several advantages. Floral hormones are allowed to concentrate in tips of branches causing buds to grow stronger and denser."

Gee, call me a fucking idiot, but that sounds pretty damn straight forward for me, doesn't it Ubernoober Ben? Why don't you read a book instead of fantasizing yourself with your own thoughts. Also, a page later in the FIM Technique section: "The technique became legendary on www.overgrow.com, ever since the grower wrote: 'This pruning technique could revolutionize indoor gardening.'"

The section Bending (As I previously mentioned, but here's the book for your ignorant smart ass):

"Bending is similar to pruning, in that it alters the flow of hormones. Bending is much easier on plants than prunning/topping" - I WONDER WHERE I GOT THAT IDEA FROM UB???. After this he teaches people like you how to bend.

Oh and then it gets into Root Pruning using light and the effect it has on hormones, ironically these are all in the same chapter of the book - Chapter THREE, one of the first chapters in the books, just to teach noobs how to grow really. . .

Bottom line, I am not going to waste any more of my time flipping through books to prove things that I have learned to somebody who thinks they know it all.

King, UB, re-read what I said. I said, IF ANYTHING "I would prefer". . . That does not mean I support it, that means I think FIMing is better than topping (Go ahead, read again, just to double check so you both don't look any more ignorant than you already do), which, if you knew how to read and had a couple books on marijuana growing, you would find that to be the truth.

Truth is, when some things work so damn good, not everybody would do it. You want to know why, kingofqueen?" Because when it comes to gardening, people do what they THINK is the best or what they THINK gives them the best result, very few gardeners/growers such as myself, actually follow scientific principles and common logic. How do you think stressing a plant by cutting it's top off is more healthy than pinching or bending? I dunno, ignorance never ceases to amaze me. When it comes to things like this, UB and you will continue to do what you THINK is best, even though there are dozens of books, marijuana related or not, that refer to the topics we have covered. I mean these are the most basic of gardening principles, maybe it would help you both if you went to your FRIENDLY neighborhood library, picked up a book on gardening OR pot, and READ it, at the least, find somebody who can read and get them to read it to you. . .


"Oh shit thats funny stuff there"

Do some research, read a book, then tell me I am wrong. Until that day, I will take my degree in biochemistry and biology and shove it up my ass and into my brain where it belongs. . . 

Sincerely,
Noobs...


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## Noobmeister (Oct 2, 2010)

kingofqueen: "I think every one ends up with different techniques that work for them and their enviroment and space limitations."

Yes, you're right, and that is exactly why your following contradictory statement of "If it works so damn great everyone would be doing it" is inaccurate. Because people do what they think is best for their set-up, environment, conditions, etc.

BTW - KingofQueens is a sweet TV show. I like it. And don't take what I said personally on you, I was simply responding to the kindness I was being shown, OR as UB would call it "warm fuzzies and touchy-feely action from The Herd"

Bottom line, and *I will say it again,* RIU is here to help the uninformed become informed as well as for sharing ideas and the like. It isn't supposed to be used for bashing people or promoting one's own ideologies. Just because I have 24 posts and you have 2,400 posts, does not mean I have no idea what I am talking about. What, I gotta sit behind a computer screen and brag about how heat-score my production is? I'd think not. Only recently have I become a medicinally approved grower and as such I have no more concerns with posting my opinion. Shit UB - You have been around RIU as long as I have.

BTW - as I stated previously, yes, topping is great if you don't care about getting one less cycle or having massive plants that take much longer to harvest from - as is apparent by your picture that you point out. I will be posting one of my own similar to yours, only using bending instead of topping, and we will see the difference of yield in regards to the plant size. The plant I bent is 1, maybe 1.5 feet tall. Yield 10 oz. What about yours? Yes, yes, I know you will want pictures, I am getting there. Keep in mind this posting business is fairly new for me.

Noobskie


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 2, 2010)

Smrt said:


> Right on UB. So many people think SuperThrive is the answer to everything that grows. I keep saying it's not. The label hype is just that, no real proof of everything they claim on the label. I dont use the stuff anymore, stopped buying it years ago.


The only thing "that is an answer to everything that grows" is knowing what a makes a plant tick, and it sure as hell aint Superthrive. 

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/294633-superthrive-superjive.html


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 2, 2010)

Noobmeister said:


> To answer your ignorance is bliss comments, I will refer to the "Marijuana Horticulture: The Indoor/Outdoor Medical Grower's Bible by Jorge Cervantes, judging by your ignorance I wouldn't be surprised that you have no idea who that is. . .


My ignorance? I'm credited for helping Jorge with his book - credits on preface page IV and page 69-70 as well as being mailed a signed, free gratis copy before its release from the man himself.

I guess they aren't teaching kids how to read these days. Either that or you don't own the book. If you did and was as familiar with it as you pose to be, you wouldn't have made such an (smart) ass out of yourself.

UB


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 3, 2010)

OK, so much for theory, books, and cheesey cannabis mags....this is where the rubber meets the road. I just took these pictures of a recently harvested outdoor's grown plant. This is what I'm talkin' about fellers.

Pot showing high soil level. I did two additions of soil to the pot after it was put into the field to bring the level to where it's shown.(You really need to open up these photos to see the detail!)



Here's a couple of shots showing a dense mass of roots induced by burying the plant deep. I blasted the soil off the top of the rootball "for your viewing pleasure". 





Rootball popped out. Notice the roots that grew through the drain holes? There's a method to my madness. 

I dug a 3" deep hole, dropped the pot in, packed native soil around it in order to increase root mass/uptake. This Bendejo drill has several advantages - it provides for a convenient watering well and it "recycles" your additions of salts and water. IOW, the foods and water I place into the pot goes into native soil, the root system grows out of the drain holes and uptakes the water/salts. Viola, reduced maintenance and better plant health/vigor!

Was this plant potbound or what!?




Tio Bendejo

.


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## kingofqueen (Oct 3, 2010)

Noobmeister said:


> Wowie, they say ignorance is bliss. . . You prove it time and time again. Ya, okay, so it takes 24 hours to resume growing after topping, and the growth you will arrive at in a weeks time will be half that if you had chosen not to cut it at all, that is, depending how quickly or late you chose to top.
> 
> To answer your ignorance is bliss comments, I will refer to the "Marijuana Horticulture: The Indoor/Outdoor Medical Grower's Bible by Jorge Cervantes, judging by your ignorance I wouldn't be surprised that you have no idea who that is. . .
> 
> ...



You need to do some research man Jorge Cervantes didn't even write that book none of the pictures are of anything he grew . I can tell you haven't been doing much research because you are quoting a bullshit book . I got the bible but what you dont know is that book is a copy cat of another book by the same author and publisher it was remarketed to be appealing to new medical growers .
I have the original to prove it if ya like ! I just wiped the dust off mine haven't needed since I,ve found it's a bullshit ripoff! 

And you claim to be a biologist ? where did u learn to research ?
Now thats funny shit keep it up I need the laughs ! Peace love and shut the fuck up !


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## Beansly (Oct 3, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> The only thing "that is an answer to everything that grows" is knowing what a makes a plant tick, and it sure as hell aint Superthrive.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/294633-superthrive-superjive.html


Duh, plants crave electrolytes.
BRONDO works wonders for me.

Alrigt, seriously though damn it. This is about me and my grow not us'e guys'z---lol

SO what ive learned about step-transplanting;

-Im an idiot 
-I should do it
-Its pointless
-Thers nothing wrong with it
-It creates massive buds
-It's forum folklore made famous by someguy on an old shut-down weed forum
-It's a noob technique
-Growing w/ coco coir is not new, its been used by some old guy for 40 years

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All that being said, are these really fights necessary?
At the risk of drawing all the attention of the flames....quit fighting please....were on the same team....everyone just wants to get high

...im gonna say this again too...again; You shouldn't take any one source of information at face value. It doesn't take a community college course on Critical Thinking (i.e. making a fucking decision w/o letting your little emotions get in the way)
Every book, every movie, every "expert" (academic and self-proclaimed) opinion, every thread on some bullshit forum, every textbook, every label on a bottle, every claim made by a company- were all made by people.
People who have their own life experiences and opinions and "norms." 
People with opinions.
Just because it's in a book, doesn't make it true or relevant.
I mean who the fuck is Jorge Cervantes anyways? (Rhetorical question trolls...)
What does jorge cervantes know about my closet, in my house, in las vegas?
What does jorge cervantes know about how much money I make, and have to spend on my grow?
Jorge Cervantes knows a lot about growing weed, but he don't know shit about me, and neither do most people on this board. 
Don't get me wrong, his was the first book I bought,
_but it's not the only one._

As far as the "if it's not used by commercial growers or nurseries" comment, i'm not sure thats entirely accurate. Commercial growers and nurseries main goal is to move their product, not _really _to create the most productive, beautiful plants possible. They just have to make the plants good enough to move it out the door. For example, it's debated still, but most growers in the know, realize what good unsulphured blackstrap molasses can do for a grow. But molasses are relatively expensive. Im sure that when nurseries fertilize, they do so with cheaper choices.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 3, 2010)

kingofqueen said:


> You need to do some research man Jorge Cervantes didn't even write that book none of the pictures are of anything he grew . I can tell you haven't been doing much research because you are quoting a bullshit book . I got the bible but what you dont know is that book is a copy cat of another book by the same author and publisher it was remarketed to be appealing to new medical growers .
> I have the original to prove it if ya like ! I just wiped the dust off mine haven't needed since I,ve found it's a bullshit ripoff!


I need to piggyback on your comments. I have the book before its release, with a note of thanks from the man himself. I'm not gonna go into the politics, biz deal and all of it, but you are correct, most (if not all) of the contents of that book was contributed by Jorge's friends and mainly OG members, myself included. As an active member at OG, I was pissed when I heard of what was going down, essentially taking the work of OG members, lifting the text and photos, and then making money off it. I got over it. Jorge DID credit every one that contributed to his Bible in the preface.

There is some inaccurate, incorrect info like the popularly held value of molasses. Jorge got the technique of Spin-Out root control incorrect, it does not turn roots up as he stated in the book. At least my photos on pages 69 - 70 show the intended effect, which were lifted directly from a thread at OG. BUT, all in all, the photos are worth their weight in gold and the chapter on Lighting is about the best I've seen any where. My favorite book for its accuracy and down-to-earth, accurate, leveled headed botanically sound material is Mel Frank's book - The MJ Insiders Grow Guide. IMO, Cervantes and the others can't hold a candle to that "old" book.

My only fight is to challenge the all prevailing hype in this biz. I showed you my results Beansly, let's see the evidence that yanking a rootball out of its natural environment has any merit. It's all about root mass, uptake, efficiency and effectiveness.... is it not? Of is "it" another cheesey gimmick without any real world merit or explanation which can not be linked directly on a cause/effect basis? Like I said, if it's not a widely accepted practice by the (_normal_) commercial gardening trade, it has no merit, PERIOD. Also, it's a scientific fact that your bud yield is directly driven by the mass and health of the root system and foliage (all else considered like genetics, etc.) .....a (common sense) concept some can't wrap their mind around. There are empirical scientific gardening trials available on the web. No opinion, no HT cheese - science.

As an aside, plants don't need outside electrolytes, hormones, enyzmes. They manufacture their own. It's gullible kids who need the snake oils and salesmen who tell them what they want to hear. 

*"We're all dreamers, and conmen fulfill that dream."*

UB


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## Ursus (Oct 3, 2010)

anomolies said:


> I think it really doesn't matter. I have plants that naturally do this. If the roots are exposed they harden and thicken. If stems are partially buried they start growing roots.


I haven't posted here in ages! This post pretty much sums up the whole thread. Good to see UB spreading his knowledge again  Ben, i wanted to ask tho, if you frequented icmag or not, have you heard of the defoliation method for cannabis?


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## Noobmeister (Oct 3, 2010)

I never said all the information in the book was his, I said he's the author of it. An author is - somebody who compiles either his own story and account or uses other's stories. The first couple pages of the book accredit respect and the ideas to the people he acquired them from I think it is two pages of names. I never said all of the information in the book was his, I said he was the author of the book. When a book comes into circulation, usually there is an author behind it. Usually, the author, if it is a journal of other people's work, would have to accredit the people who he acquires the information from. IT doesn't say on those pages, "I got this information from this person", so how could I properly accredit credit where it is due? Now, because y'all were proven wrong on the issues I was referring to, you have to pull out some pathetic attempt at making me look like a "smart ass"??? The only people looking like smartasses are yourselves. . . Really. Y'all really need to grow up and use some common sense. You guys take things so personally, all of you, and you let your immatured ego's get in the way of common sense and being able to compromise what is important and what is the topic of discussion. Now, because you see your arguement lacked certain validity, we pull in, "He didn't write that book", etc, etc. Well, yes, he did, he is the author of it, no, not all of the information is his own, and yes, as any AUTHOR does, he accredited credit where it was due - even to you UB, in this age in time it is common sense that nobody can write a book on any topic without the ideas within the novel being somebody else's. . . Are you kidding me that this is the childish argument you have now pursued?

I never once argued about the significance of root mass and vigor, I also commented on this importance. You can refer to both the MJ Insiders, and Medical Bible (_As I stated I have a library of novels_, I was simply referring to the simplest and most basic of the books - Jorges Cervantes' medical Bible - though you will continue to find an arguement in anything and everything I say and say there are more basic novels than that, and again I would agree and again nor was that the point I was making) and you will also find information in both about the significance of oxygen uptake on the roots. By increasing the oxygen flow to the roots and the amount of oxygen uptake by the roots you can also effectively nearly or more than double production (Depending on techniques, nutrients, plants size (By plant size I mean leaves and roots and everything in-between). Hence, why aeration has become so popular in recent years. I never said anything about plants needing "electrolytes, hormones, or enzymes either", although, yes they need hormones, electrolytes and enzymes. If it were not for hormones within the plant, the plant would not grow roots, or leaves seperately, it would be either a mass of leaves and stem or a ball of roots, but you need one to have the other, and hormones regulate this. Enzymes are crucial in the breaking down and absorption of energy and nutrients VIA the roots (As they produce certain chemical changes in organic substances by catalytic action resulting in the decomposition and conversion of nutrients for their uptake into the plant). Also, just like the other two, without electrolytes, life would cease to exist as they are any of certain inorganic compounds, mainly sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium, (Potassium and magnesium we feed to the plants to encourage rapid and healthy growth - do we not???) chloride, and bicarbonate, that dissociate in biological fluids into ions capable of conducting electrical currents and constituting a major force in controlling fluid balance within a living organism (Plant or animal).

I don't know how we could grow a plant without electrolytes as they are responsible for the distribution of nutrients throughout the plant, and by distributing them throughout the plant where they are needed, the plants grow IE Magnesium, Potassium, Calcium, etc.
I don't know how we could grow a plant without enzymes as they are responsible for the uptake of nutrients INTO the plant so that the electrolytes can move them around throughout the plant where the HORMONES tell the plant the nutrients (Absorbed as a result of enzymes) where they are needed.
I don't know how we could grow a plant without hormones, as the plant wouldn't grow, because it wouldn't think it needed to! 

Hormones tell the plant where nutrients are needed! The Electrolytes are the driving force or energy which circulates the nutrients throughout the plant. The enzymes are responsible and accredited to the uptake of nutrients through the roots!!! Holy crap people, these are fundamentals once again! Grade 6 science for Pete's Sake!

*Without OUTSIDE enzymes, electrolytes, and hormones, the plant would not be able to create its own and would not grow and would cease to exist. This is why you FEED your plants A and B nutes when growing hydroponicly, this is why you grow your plants in soil instead of in plain hydroton rocks or rockwool cubes, because without those OUTSIDE enzymes, electrolytes and hormones, the plant cannot create enzymes, cannot create electrolytes and cannot create hormones. It's all interconnected*, I don't see your logic in the matter.

You try growing a plant in a pillowcase without watering it or giving it nutrients and fertilizers and tell me how that goes. What do fertilizers provide? N-P-K, The three fundamental building bones of electrolytes, therefor hormones, and coincidentally, therefor enzymes.

Lastly:



> What does jorge cervantes know about my closet, in my house, in las vegas?
> What does jorge cervantes know about how much money I make, and have to spend on my grow?


WHAT the hell does that have to do with ANYTHING?!? His book is a GUIDE, not a reflection of your life FFS, grow up brotha. . . Seriously!

He doesn't know you, so he doesn't know anything about your closet in your house and how much you made and can use towards your illegal grow operation. That isn't the point of the book either. The purpose of the book is to be an amature grower's guide on the most simplistic and basic of principles in regards to growing medical grade marijuana so that you can come up with your own ideas on how to spend your money and how to use your closet for your illegal or legal grow operations. Let's grow up a little and think about things before we say them. . . PLEASE, ALL OF YOU!

For fuck sake, before I ever bother to respond on this thread again, I am going to have to sit here and read, then re-read, and super extra re-read my posts to make sure there is no slight way in which my opinion can be manipulated and misconstrued. We were talking about lifting roots out of the ground, now you are talking about "


> What does jorge cervantes know about my closet, in my house, in las vegas?
> What does jorge cervantes know about how much money I make, and have to spend on my grow?


"

C'mon guys, for those of us who completed high school, high school died years ago, as did it's drama and character.

"We're all dreamers, and conmen fulfill that dream." and that is why I tried to mellow the mood earlier and present some logical and scientifically reinforced information to help the rest of us that are the same, however there is little appreciation for this "We're all dreamers, and conmen fulfill that dream" on this thread. It's "I am the dream maker, and I am the only one that can fulfill that dream". . . . apparently. . .


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## kingofqueen (Oct 3, 2010)

This would all make sense if someone could say that the name Jorge Cervantes is an alias for George F. Van Patton because the bulk of the book is exactly the same a the 5th Edition Gardening Indoors with Soil and Hydroponics by George F. Van Patton originally written in 1986.
When I say the same I mean verbatim .


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## kingofqueen (Oct 3, 2010)

That is my only beef here , whats the relation between the two books ? I bought the first one just on whim i saw it at my nursery. Then about 2 weeks later low and behold they sell the Medical Bible at Barnes and Nobles , shit let me scrape up what few dollars I have and go and buy it I was excited as hell that I was purchasing some bonafide original growing information .

So to my disappointment I find that I,m reading the same paragraphs and chapters as the other book the chapter list is even the same.
I felt so ripped off almost 60 dollars between the 2 books , so I hope this clears up where I,m coming from with all this on my end , I can't be the only person this has happend to . All u get in the 2nd book is pictures, they replace the word plant with marijauna.,and added chapters on hash making .


Sorry your thread is getting effed up Beansly


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 3, 2010)

Ursus said:


> I haven't posted here in ages! This post pretty much sums up the whole thread. Good to see UB spreading his knowledge again  Ben, i wanted to ask tho, if you frequented icmag or not, have you heard of the defoliation method for cannabis?


I was quickly banned for getting into BOG's and Rezdog's shit plus there was alot going doing down between the PoM and Gypsy debacle.

Gypsy and I were tight at one time, such that he sent me Zamal seeds and such and hooked me up with his breeder friend on La Reunion. Haven't been back to the place in a long time.

Heh, cannabis forums are all the same.

UB


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 4, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> OK, so much for theory, books, and cheesey cannabis mags....this is where the rubber meets the road. I just took these pictures of a recently harvested outdoor's grown plant. This is what I'm talkin' about fellers.
> 
> Pot showing high soil level. I did two additions of soil to the pot after it was put into the field to bring the level to where it's shown.(You really need to open up these photos to see the detail!)
> 
> ...


What, no comments on post #59 from the "Roots High Klan"? 

UB
.


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## doc111 (Oct 4, 2010)

Noobmeister said:


> I never said all the information in the book was his, I said he's the author of it. An author is - somebody who compiles either his own story and account or uses other's stories. The first couple pages of the book accredit respect and the ideas to the people he acquired them from I think it is two pages of names. I never said all of the information in the book was his, I said he was the author of the book. When a book comes into circulation, usually there is an author behind it. Usually, the author, if it is a journal of other people's work, would have to accredit the people who he acquires the information from. IT doesn't say on those pages, "I got this information from this person", so how could I properly accredit credit where it is due? Now, because y'all were proven wrong on the issues I was referring to, you have to pull out some pathetic attempt at making me look like a "smart ass"??? The only people looking like smartasses are yourselves. . . Really. Y'all really need to grow up and use some common sense. You guys take things so personally, all of you, and you let your immatured ego's get in the way of common sense and being able to compromise what is important and what is the topic of discussion. Now, because you see your arguement lacked certain validity, we pull in, "He didn't write that book", etc, etc. Well, yes, he did, he is the author of it, no, not all of the information is his own, and yes, as any AUTHOR does, he accredited credit where it was due - even to you UB, in this age in time it is common sense that nobody can write a book on any topic without the ideas within the novel being somebody else's. . . Are you kidding me that this is the childish argument you have now pursued?
> 
> I never once argued about the significance of root mass and vigor, I also commented on this importance. You can refer to both the MJ Insiders, and Medical Bible (_As I stated I have a library of novels_, I was simply referring to the simplest and most basic of the books - Jorges Cervantes' medical Bible - though you will continue to find an arguement in anything and everything I say and say there are more basic novels than that, and again I would agree and again nor was that the point I was making) and you will also find information in both about the significance of oxygen uptake on the roots. By increasing the oxygen flow to the roots and the amount of oxygen uptake by the roots you can also effectively nearly or more than double production (Depending on techniques, nutrients, plants size (By plant size I mean leaves and roots and everything in-between). Hence, why aeration has become so popular in recent years. I never said anything about plants needing "electrolytes, hormones, or enzymes either", although, yes they need hormones, electrolytes and enzymes. If it were not for hormones within the plant, the plant would not grow roots, or leaves seperately, it would be either a mass of leaves and stem or a ball of roots, but you need one to have the other, and hormones regulate this. Enzymes are crucial in the breaking down and absorption of energy and nutrients VIA the roots (As they produce certain chemical changes in organic substances by catalytic action resulting in the decomposition and conversion of nutrients for their uptake into the plant). Also, just like the other two, without electrolytes, life would cease to exist as they are any of certain inorganic compounds, mainly sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium, (Potassium and magnesium we feed to the plants to encourage rapid and healthy growth - do we not???) chloride, and bicarbonate, that dissociate in biological fluids into ions capable of conducting electrical currents and constituting a major force in controlling fluid balance within a living organism (Plant or animal).
> 
> ...


Wow, that was quite a post! I just want to address the part I highlighted. I've got some bad news for you. Plants don't take up enzymes and hormones. They make them. Plants need a few things; Water, light, air (CO2), and nutrients (N,P,K, and the secondary and micronutrients). Plants use all of these things combined to produce carbohydrates, sugars, proteins, enzymes and hormones, among other things. I am not going to debate the efficacy of certain MJ specific plant additives and boosters. I personally think most of them are bunk or simply a nutrient or nutrients that most of us are already giving the plants. When it comes to growing cannabis, there are a lot of myths and mystique because of its elicit nature. These myths are very hard to debunk because of this. I've tried a few of these "boosters" and miracle plant tonics and I've noticed virtually no improvement in yield or quality. Why? Because I try to provide my plants with the right things at the right times, in the right amounts and create as natural an environment for them as possible. If everyone would just do these simple things there would be a lot more success stories on here and not a bunch of newbs with a laundry list of additives and no clue as to why their plants are sick.


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## doc111 (Oct 4, 2010)

Here is a great article on the structure of roots and how they function:

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/R/Roots.html

Here is another one that goes a little more in depth and talks about how roots take up water and nutrients:

http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/sciences/botanicalsciences/PlantsStructure/Roots/Roots.htm

And finally I pasted this link which talks about osmosis:

http://www.purchon.com/biology/osmosis.htm



*Definition*
Osmosis is the passage of water from a region of high water concentration through a semi-permeable membrane to a region of low water concentration.



The definition contains three important statements:
Osmosis is *the passage of water* from a region of high water concentration *through a semi-permeable membrane* to a region of low water concentration.

Osmosis is *the passage of water from a region of high water concentration* through a semi-permeable membrane to a region of low water concentration.

Osmosis is *the passage of water* from a region of high water concentration through a semi-permeable membrane *to a region of low water concentration*.
I wanted to put the definition of osmosis in here because it is so important in how a root functions. Understanding this basic scientific principle also helps us understand that roots don't necessarily take in everything that we give them. A semi-permeable membrane allows certain molecules through while not allowing others. I am oversimplifying a bit but a semi-permeable membrane basically has tiny holes in it that are just big enough and the correct shape to take up the specific molecules it needs. Most sugars, enzymes, and proteins will not even come close to fitting through that membrane. Nothing you can do will force these things through without killing the plant. It has to have this semi-permeable membrane in order to select the good and prevent the bad stuff from getting in. Hope this helps. 

Edit: I just wanted to add that what I have included here is a simplified version of how roots work. Within the second link I provided are some more links which discuss plant nutrition, water and nutrient uptake, plant hormones and their functions and a whole bunch of other really good stuff on botany. Enjoy.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 4, 2010)

Good stuff doc111


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## NovusSpiritus (Oct 5, 2010)

Noobmeister said:


> *Without OUTSIDE enzymes, electrolytes, and hormones, the plant would not be able to create its own and would not grow and would cease to exist. This is why you FEED your plants A and B nutes when growing hydroponicly, this is why you grow your plants in soil instead of in plain hydroton rocks or rockwool cubes, because without those OUTSIDE enzymes, electrolytes and hormones, the plant cannot create enzymes, cannot create electrolytes and cannot create hormones. It's all interconnected*, I don't see your logic in the matter.


LMFAO...I love when people attempt to bullshit others when they have no idea what they're talking about. 

But really, I need to go to the store now. I have to pick up some glucose oxidase, (an enzyme) a shit ton of gatorade (for electrolytes) and I have to ask the guy at the nursery about hormone replacement therapy for my plants


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 6, 2010)

NovusSpiritus said:


> LMFAO...I love when people attempt to bullshit others when they have no idea what they're talking about.
> 
> But really, I need to go to the store now. I have to pick up some glucose oxidase, (an enzyme) a shit ton of gatorade (for electrolytes) and I have to ask the guy at the nursery about hormone replacement therapy for my plants


.....and don't forget to drop by the Quantum Biofeedback Lab.


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## canefan (Oct 6, 2010)

doc111 said:


> Here is a great article on the structure of roots and how they function:
> 
> http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/R/Roots.html
> 
> ...


doc111 Thanks for the links. I have many volumes of books but for posting here it is always nice to have some quick links to share instead of typing out of a book to explain a point. Also need to include Uncle Ben with his links and words of wisdom.
Happy Growing to all and everyone keep reading and learning.


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## phyzix (Oct 6, 2010)

Uncle Ben is absolutely correct.


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## fooshizzle (Oct 8, 2010)

Noobmeister said:


> I never said all the information in the book was his, I said he's the author of it. An author is - somebody who compiles either his own story and account or uses other's stories. The first couple pages of the book accredit respect and the ideas to the people he acquired them from I think it is two pages of names. I never said all of the information in the book was his, I said he was the author of the book. When a book comes into circulation, usually there is an author behind it. Usually, the author, if it is a journal of other people's work, would have to accredit the people who he acquires the information from. IT doesn't say on those pages, "I got this information from this person", so how could I properly accredit credit where it is due? Now, because y'all were proven wrong on the issues I was referring to, you have to pull out some pathetic attempt at making me look like a "smart ass"??? The only people looking like smartasses are yourselves. . . Really. Y'all really need to grow up and use some common sense. You guys take things so personally, all of you, and you let your immatured ego's get in the way of common sense and being able to compromise what is important and what is the topic of discussion. Now, because you see your arguement lacked certain validity, we pull in, "He didn't write that book", etc, etc. Well, yes, he did, he is the author of it, no, not all of the information is his own, and yes, as any AUTHOR does, he accredited credit where it was due - even to you UB, in this age in time it is common sense that nobody can write a book on any topic without the ideas within the novel being somebody else's. . . Are you kidding me that this is the childish argument you have now pursued?
> 
> I never once argued about the significance of root mass and vigor, I also commented on this importance. You can refer to both the MJ Insiders, and Medical Bible (_As I stated I have a library of novels_, I was simply referring to the simplest and most basic of the books - Jorges Cervantes' medical Bible - though you will continue to find an arguement in anything and everything I say and say there are more basic novels than that, and again I would agree and again nor was that the point I was making) and you will also find information in both about the significance of oxygen uptake on the roots. By increasing the oxygen flow to the roots and the amount of oxygen uptake by the roots you can also effectively nearly or more than double production (Depending on techniques, nutrients, plants size (By plant size I mean leaves and roots and everything in-between). Hence, why aeration has become so popular in recent years. I never said anything about plants needing "electrolytes, hormones, or enzymes either", although, yes they need hormones, electrolytes and enzymes. If it were not for hormones within the plant, the plant would not grow roots, or leaves seperately, it would be either a mass of leaves and stem or a ball of roots, but you need one to have the other, and hormones regulate this. Enzymes are crucial in the breaking down and absorption of energy and nutrients VIA the roots (As they produce certain chemical changes in organic substances by catalytic action resulting in the decomposition and conversion of nutrients for their uptake into the plant). Also, just like the other two, without electrolytes, life would cease to exist as they are any of certain inorganic compounds, mainly sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium, (Potassium and magnesium we feed to the plants to encourage rapid and healthy growth - do we not???) chloride, and bicarbonate, that dissociate in biological fluids into ions capable of conducting electrical currents and constituting a major force in controlling fluid balance within a living organism (Plant or animal).
> 
> ...



It would be a lot easier to take a non-biased fair view of Noobmeisters post if he was polite and courteous. When someone like that starts talking like a asshole its hard to comprehend and find the good parts in what they say. I was always told that you have to learn how to listen before you learn how to be heard. Thanks UB for all the great advice from what has worked for you over all these years. Everyone's process is different, whether good or bad, it only matters in what works for you.


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## secretweapon (Oct 10, 2010)

maybe they were going for something like this. i just bought a bunch of pots. 
[video=youtube;-NUjNBKex0I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NUjNBKex0I[/video]


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## GrowinSmoke (Nov 26, 2012)

Sorry for reviving an old thread, but I see no point in making a new one when there is so much good information here.

One question I do not see answered specifically: Assuming the same size pot, is there benefit to re-potting your root mass higher if you can generate more roots? I understand the argument that roots at the surface do not function like roots below the surface. I question if the additional soil utilized below the "surface roots" can improve the overall yield of the plant despite the inefficiencies of the "surface roots".

My particular situation does not allow me to grow tall pants, and transplant the rootball/stalk lower like I see uncle ben has done with great success.


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## ricky6991 (Nov 26, 2012)

My plants have top roots showing last 4 weeks in flowering cause didnt pack my soil when transplanting so after watering so many time it compacted down. Had me nervous until i read this thread... plants are healthy an seem to not be bothered by it.


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## ghb (Jan 4, 2013)

getting back to the original subject, i have tried this and it has it's benefits and draw backs.

benefits: it makes it a lot harder to overwater and eventually you will have a larger root mass.

draw backs: plants are less stable and more likely to lean or fall over and you will take longer to grow a large root mass.


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## IlovePlants (Jan 6, 2013)

I agree and disagree with a lot of things on this thread.
I agree that placing the roots at the top of the pot will create the largest root mass when dealing with a transplant.
I agree that roots shouldn't be intentionally exposed.
I disagree with anyone saying air-roots are counter productive once established, in my opinion it provides a larger surface area for sturdy vascular roots/gallon.

Water birthing, and I'm not sure if that was the technique discussed in high times, is one of my favorite techniques for advanced up-potting. Most likely high times did a story on someone doing something very similar. A while back there were a few threads that touched on this in the hydro section, but ultimately they never went anywhere because they didn't need a larger root surface area.

Essentially you wash away the soil from the roots and place the root-mass 1-1.5" below the surface of the soil. Air roots are a side effect, and they help to prevent root rot and increase total root surface area, which ultimately increases the water exchange rate.

I have been doing this for the last few years and I didn't realize it wasn't common practice. I could whip up a simple pictorial by tonight, but I'm working on a compendium of growing information that should be done in a few days that will include all the info. Your original story makes me wonder, because a few years back I picked this up from an article somewhere. It was all about how Air-roots did wonders for plant vigor. I don't like placing pots or root mass above soil, so I started washing out the soil before I transplanted the roots. That technique I got from the hydro section of RIU for soil growers who wanted to go hydro. 

Anyway, cannabis is in no way related to tomatoes, my cannabis is a much more woody plant regardless. I personally prefer water birthing to stem-rooting because it grows new roots faster. What makes more sense, roots taking a week to grow from a stem, or transplanting all the roots to the top of the pot so they can grow down again?


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