# Get your Geek on and control your grow room with Arduino!



## Timezone (Jan 11, 2020)

Fourteen months ago, I got a Raspberry Pi (3 b+) and I started on a quest to automate my grow.

It was an idea that began as a discussion with a small group of friends at the now defunct Cannabis Culture forum. Topics ranged from the usual temperature and humidity blah blah, to a robotic hand that could roll a joint and "deliver it lit to your lips". When CC went away, I had some time on my hands so I began by myself. I'd had some experience with an Arduino Uno, so my first attempt began there.


I had to wait for the parts to arrive, but it didn't take long to cobble together the above controller capable (in theory) of handling a heater, air conditioner, a humidifier, a dehumidifier, an exhaust fan, CO2 (sensor not shown), a water chiller and a water heater.


Then I add the Pi,


and figured out how to store and display data, collected over time.

When I arrived here in January of '19, I looked up an old friend from CC, @OldMedUser , and we've continued discussing this project for control. He's just picked up a Pi 4 and has an Arduino Mega, the Uno's bigger brother, on order. I thought it was time to move the conversation here.

As this is my first thread here, I hope to ask questions, answer questions, discuss different microcontrollers, you know, the kind of thing you want to discuss stoned, and learn a few things together. 

This topic will definitely discuss the Arduino controllers, Uno and Mega, the ESP8266, and any others that come up.

*This will be for educational purposes only, not a guide or how to. If you try any instruction here, you do so at your own peril. Some of the discussion concerns mains power which can be fatal. Be Ye Forewarned!*


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 11, 2020)

Oh this is gonna be fun...count me in


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## ilovereggae (Jan 11, 2020)

Subbed. I have an Arduino Uno and a soil temp/humidity sensor from Adafruit sitting in my desk drawer. Will start with that sometime soon but really interested in your full setup.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 11, 2020)

Like TimeZone said above I just got a Pi kit a few days ago and got it working and surfing the web so far. Comes with Chromium for a browser but basically a dumbed down version of Chrome which I hate on the PC platform. Yesterday I got FireFox installed and it's just like the version on my Desktop PC. 

The kit I got was $150, Amazon of course, and came with everything you need to get it up and running except a monitor, mouse and keyboard. Shipped from Canakits in Vancouver and I could have got it there from real people for the same price and not from some soulless entity like Amazon.






CanaKit Raspberry Pi 4 4GB Starter MAX Kit - 64GB Edition : Amazon.ca: Electronics


CanaKit Raspberry Pi 4 4GB Starter MAX Kit - 64GB Edition : Amazon.ca: Electronics



www.amazon.ca





On Thursday I ordered an Arduino kit that has all sorts of little projects to do to get up to speed on how this stuff works. Gonna have to learn some programming too. Not good with languages other than English myself. After a bit I'll figure out a decent challenging project to work on and have at it. A big drone would be cool.






SunFounder Mega 2560 R3 Project Super Starter Kit with Mega 2560 Board Compatible with Arduino Mega 2560 R3 Mega328 Nano,25 Tutorials Included: Amazon.ca: Electronics


SunFounder Mega 2560 R3 Project Super Starter Kit with Mega 2560 Board Compatible with Arduino Mega 2560 R3 Mega328 Nano,25 Tutorials Included: Amazon.ca: Electronics



www.amazon.ca





Next thing I'm getting is one of those work trays like TZs in the OP. Only $10 which means I only need to spend $25 more to get free shipping! Hmmm . . . 

Between the holidays and new hobbies the old VISA card is taking quite the beating. lol

Oh yeah. Got a new 8" inline fan for the grow room too.


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## Timezone (Jan 11, 2020)

First relays... no mains power (120Vac 15A in my zone) was ever applied to the relay module shown on the Arduino setup above nor will it ever be. While the relays are rated for 10 amps at both 125Vac and 250Vac, and 30Vdc, the electrical connection between the board and mains are rated at less than 5 amps. I will have a 12Vdc project in the future that does put one of these relays to work. For now, I will rely...


on the relay module shown on the left. The label on the relay reads:

30A 250VAC 30VDC
1HP 120VAC
1-1/2 HP 240 VAC 

It has a well protected mains power area with 25A screw terminals, has its own 5Vdc power supply (pulls nothing from the Arduino), easy to mount etc. I use the 2 gang mainly, which should be good for the mains power in my zone. In better weather, I will test several of these with a 1500W heater, outdoors.  Maybe have an Uno switch the load off and on over a period of time. Sorry to say, I don't recognize any of the certifications on the label. I was looking fo UL, but no such luck. Anyone recognize the certifications?

Beware of using relay modules that have relays that are rated 30A on boards with connectors that won't carry the load, such as the board on the right.


When working with mains power I heavily insulate the traces that carry the higher voltages, on the boards with a glue gun. Just do not desolder anything with the tip of the glue gun.  Questions?

*This will be for educational purposes only, not a guide or how to. If you try any instruction here, you do so at your own peril. Some of the discussion concerns mains power which can be fatal. Be Ye Forewarned!*


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## OldMedUser (Jan 12, 2020)

This will be easier to look for those certifications.


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## Timezone (Jan 12, 2020)

Welcome Mak'er Grow, ilovereggae, OldMedUser and anyone else viewing this. Thanks.


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## Timezone (Jan 12, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> This will be easier to look for those certifications.


Yeah, I shoulda done that! I didn't know wether to insert the full photo or the thumbnail. What do you think? Too big?


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## OldMedUser (Jan 12, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Yeah, I shoulda done that! I didn't know wether to insert the full photo or the thumbnail. What do you think? Too big?


Nah. It's only 1.4meg. Would fit on a 1.44meg floppy. Now that I upgraded my wifi to twice the speed and 3X the data I don't care about picture size except for guys that have to upload a bunch all maxed out close to 10meg each. I just close the page. Much smaller and you wouldn't be able to read the printing. Cropping closer would allow a smaller file size without losing detail too.


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## Timezone (Jan 12, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Comes with Chromium for a browser but basically a dumbed down version of Chrome


I meant to tell you, I believe it's the other way around, Chrome is a commercialized version of open-source Chromium.




OldMedUser said:


> not from some soulless entity like Amazon.


I'm a firm believer in supporting the local economy but all of the Radio Shacks are gone from my zone. Try to find a PZEM-004T-100A-R3 in your zone. Amazone comes in real handy sometimes. Besides, they have a large local presence in my zone, providing many jobs. I get an idea and need parts to start fast. Amazone gives me that. After that, if a project goes well, I might order parts from Banggood or AliExpress in quantities for manufacture.


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## Timezone (Jan 12, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Next thing I'm getting is one of those work trays


That tray helps me keep things together when the kitty comes around.


Here, she uses my Pi as a heated pillow... until the new dual fan case gets here. She'll learn quick. 

I built a lot of Arduino stuff just on the calendar on the desktop. The tray comes with the screws to mount either an Arduino Uno or Mega and/or a Raspberry PI 3, don't know about the Pi 4, and a 830 point solderless breadboard. I'll provide more information if requested.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 12, 2020)

Timezone said:


> I meant to tell you, I believe it's the other way around, Chrome is a commercialized version of open-source Chromium.
> 
> I'm a firm believer in supporting the local economy but all of the Radio Shacks are gone from my zone. Try to find a PZEM-004T-100A-R3 in your zone. Amazone comes in real handy sometimes. Besides, they have a large local presence in my zone, providing many jobs. I get an idea and need parts to start fast. Amazone gives me that. After that, if a project goes well, I might order parts from Banggood or AliExpress in quantities for manufacture.


If you wanted lots of them then where else can you get them cheap but from China. Same ones they sell off of Amazon anyway.


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## Dougnsalem (Jan 12, 2020)

Looks like this will be a good one to watch! I've been wanting to get into stuff like this, but just haven't made the time....


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## Timezone (Jan 12, 2020)

Thanks and welcome @Dougnsalem. I think this will end up being an informative thread, hopefully deserving of your time.


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## Timezone (Jan 12, 2020)

There are a lot of sources of information out there and one of my favorites is Random Nerd Tutorials.

From Google:
*"Random Nerd Tutorials* is a blog where we share electronics projects, *tutorials* and reviews. We help makers, hobbyists and engineers build electronics projects. We make projects with: ESP32, ESP8266, Arduino, Raspberry Pi, Home Automation and Internet of Things."

I'll probably be referring you there often... like now, take a look at Nine Arduino Compatible Temperature Sensors for Your Electronics Projects, and then Comparing Temperature Sensors: DHT11 vs DMT22 vs LM35 vs DS18B20 vs BME280 vs BMP180. Pay close attention to the communication protocol, voltages, range and such.

I know that @OldMedUser has a DHT11 in his immediate future and he might have questions. I'm using the DHT22 sensor and the waterproof version of the DS18B20 sensor, on the Uno layout above, and am looking into the BME280 for it's barometric sensor as well as temperature/humidity sensors.






If you want to measure temperature and humidity, I suggest this 3 output pin DHT22 board with DHT22 mounted to a board with resistor and 3 pins out. Note the surface mount black resistor and brown capacitor at the end of the 4 DHT22 pins.






Don't be fooled, these have no on board resistor and capacitor, and you will have to add at least the resistor at some point in the circuit.


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 12, 2020)

Timezone said:


> There are a lot of sources of information out there and one of my favorites is Random Nerd Tutorials.
> 
> From Google:
> *"Random Nerd Tutorials* is a blog where we share electronics projects, *tutorials* and reviews. We help makers, hobbyists and engineers build electronics projects. We make projects with: ESP32, ESP8266, Arduino, Raspberry Pi, Home Automation and Internet of Things."
> ...


I have tried the DS18B20 and found the readings jump up and down a lot and just didn't seem to stay at a proper reading.
I have purchased the BMP280 4 pin boards and a I2C multi chip so I can connect 8 I2C devices into the 1 I2C port on the Mega2560 board. From what I read the 4 pin boards are 5v and the 6 pin boards are 3.3v, but not sure...is there anyway to figure out what is what?
Also I read the BMP280 are 5v and BME280 are 3.3v


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## OldMedUser (Jan 12, 2020)

I used to shun geeks and nerds in high school and now I'm becoming one! More like getting deeper into my geekhood as I've been nerding out on computers for the last 30+ years while still engaged in manly pursuits like pounding down ice roads in Super-B tankers and water trucks.

Good to know the differences between the quality and usefulness of the different sensors and parts like relays TimeZone. I was looking at a set of 37 sensors for only $25 or so and I bet they are the lowest quality at that price. Good enough to learn with maybe but not the kind of things you want for regular or accurate use. 

I gave up my email addy at RNT and downloaded the freebies for later perusal. Want to get my hands on that Arduino so I can start geeking out on that now. Almost lost interest in the Pi atm but still have lots to learn there too. 

I just learned from looking at the 5 min tutorials at Robot Shop that the software to program the Arduino IDE with Sketch runs on my PC so downloaded that and next week will have the Arduino and the actual book, ( Programming Arduino: Getting Started with Sketches, Second Edition ), and be up and running pretty quick. WooHoo!


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 12, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> I used to shun geeks and nerds in high school and now I'm becoming one! More like getting deeper into my geekhood as I've been nerding out on computers for the last 30+ years while still engaged in manly pursuits like pounding down ice roads in Super-B tankers and water trucks.
> 
> Good to know the differences between the quality and usefulness of the different sensors and parts like relays TimeZone. I was looking at a set of 37 sensors for only $25 or so and I bet they are the lowest quality at that price. Good enough to learn with maybe but not the kind of things you want for regular or accurate use.
> 
> ...


You shouldn't have a problem at all...the Arduino IDE is so simple to use...about as hard as making a website page...lol
What Arduino are you getting ?


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## OldMedUser (Jan 12, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> You shouldn't have a problem at all...the Arduino IDE is so simple to use...about as hard as making a website page...lol
> What Arduino are you getting ?


The Mega 2560 R3 Project Super Starter Kit 

I'm just checking out the Arduino.cc site. Really good stuff there and their products page in the link shows all the different types of boards and add-ons. Click on them to get a decent description of the uses of each. For some projects you could buy an earlier cheaper board to set it up rather than a more advanced one that would be overkill for what you need. Good list of distributors all over the world, tutorials etc etc.

After getting my diploma in chemistry I went to school for a diploma as a webmaster but that was all almost 30 years ago and times have changed while most of it has been forgotten. Once learned it comes back quickly once I sink what's left of my teeth into it. 

These days you don't need to get a formal education in many things to become good at it. So much free stuff on the interweb now and when I went back to school in '87 there was just USENET and Bulletin Board Sevices. I was active on a lot of BBSs in the Vancouver area dealing with environmental and other subjects. Still have my flip-up phone directory with all my usernames and passwords from back then. Still wander around the news groups using NewsHosting but it's really got to pot with not a lot of new content and a lot more spam. Plenty of porn tho!


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 12, 2020)

Ohhhh the days of BLAZING speeds of the, what was it, 9600 modems...lol
Thats a very nice kit you'll have there...loads of projects can be made.
I was going to buy a kit, but figured most of it would end up in the drawer eventually and went basic UNO R3 and a bread board shield...also got a RTC with SD slot, but have upgraded a bit since then to the Mega2560 mostly due to I ran out of space for my code with the UNO before I even got to adding in the temp sensors...lol
Formal education...blahh...lol. I dont even have a grade 12 diploma, but have college credits and my pc tech cert so never bothered to finish. 
I use the net for most things I can't figure out on my own...my favorite saying when someone asks me something..."Did you google that yet?"...then I tell them "If you want me to do it it will be $20/hr and I'll get back to ya in a couple days"...lol


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## OldMedUser (Jan 12, 2020)

My first modem was a 300 baud that you stuck the handset into. 9600 was my first upgrade and it was broken out of the box. Luckily I was at BCIT at the time and after 2 days of hair-pulling frustration took it to the computer science dept and a couple days later got it back and was told it was dead. Back to Future Shop for a new one.

I only upgraded here from dial-up 7 or 8 years ago. Max download speed was 5Kb/sec and now I'm getting 800-1000.

I never got my Grade 12 diploma either. My chem diploma is/was good for 2 years university credit and I went into it as a mature student and took a 6 week math upgrade course in the summer prior to classes starting in Sept. Grades 9, 10, 11, and 12 in 6 weeks of 3 hour days and I managed 87% overall. Figured school would be a breeze until I started with 7 different classes and very poor time management skills. Being out of school for 15 years or so leaves you ill-equipped for the rigors of academic life. Not that I was much of a student back then either. I had gone back to high school at age 20 too. Being the only guy in the school old enough to go to the liquor store made me a lot of cool friends real fast. Many of them were female too.


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## ilovereggae (Jan 12, 2020)

Can anybody recommend a good free online electrical primer/course? 100% honest I have limited knowledge of what all of these components even do in an electrical circuit. I googled enough about electricity basics to wire up my LED/drivers, and can do the math to figure out watts/amps on a breaker, but not much beyond that.

I am a software engineer tho and have no problem spending the time learning if someone can point me in the right direction. I feel like I need a Electrical 101 class so that I can make better use of all this knowledge and be able to think about it on my own. Unless you all think that my best bet is to jump in and learn as I go? I very much prefer applied learning to reading manuals, but I know theres some basic foundation that will help me get a better headstart.

Thanks!


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 12, 2020)

ilovereggae said:


> Can anybody recommend a good free online electrical primer/course? 100% honest I have limited knowledge of what all of these components even do in an electrical circuit. I googled enough about electricity basics to wire up my LED/drivers, and can do the math to figure out watts/amps on a breaker, but not much beyond that.
> 
> I am a software engineer tho and have no problem spending the time learning if someone can point me in the right direction. I feel like I need a Electrical 101 class so that I can make better use of all this knowledge and be able to think about it on my own. Unless you all think that my best bet is to jump in and learn as I go? I very much prefer applied learning to reading manuals, but I know theres some basic foundation that will help me get a better headstart.
> 
> Thanks!


There are so many...its hard to pick just 1, but if you google "electronics 101" theres tons of sites and videos that will explain components, how things work and so on. (not "electrical", but "electronics")
Maybe choose a simple project to build and start learning about its components and then go from there.
In school we built small projects on breadboards and copper clad board that we etched and soldered components to...was lots of fun.
What do you have for components on hand...any old electronics you can rip apart for some parts?


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 12, 2020)

Good thread here


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## ilovereggae (Jan 12, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> There are so many...its hard to pick just 1, but if you google "electronics 101" theres tons of sites and videos that will explain components, how things work and so on. (not "electrical", but "electronics")
> Maybe choose a simple project to build and start learning about its components and then go from there.
> In school we built small projects on breadboards and copper clad board that we etched and soldered components to...was lots of fun.
> What do you have for components on hand...any old electronics you can rip apart for some parts?


thanks @Mak'er Grow

Funny thing, I actually have a whole Arduino kit, and when I looked, I think its literally made for what I want lol.








ARDX - The starter kit for Arduino


ARDX - The starter kit for Arduino is perfect for beginner to get started with Arduino programming and understand hardware. The kit includes 13 circuits and each one has a breadboard layout.




www.seeedstudio.com





Literally printed on the outside of the box is:
"ARDX is a comprehensive Arduino learning kit for beginners who want to easily dive into the world of electronics."

I am definitely going to start my research with your suggestions and some other resources @ChiefRunningPhist sent me just now.

My specific goals for the next few months:


Setup Adafruit soil temp/humidity sensor and wire up to Arduino, initially just logging data, eventually adding more sensors and having some type of app logic that turns on a pump to a drip system to add supplemental watering as needed during flower.
Setup a PiCam or other cameras in my flower and veg spaces.
Be able to control the potentiometers of my Meanwell drivers via an app.
Look into possibility of splicing a connection into my AC Infinity cloudline controllers, or making my own controller for them that will allow me to control fan based on my own temp/rh recipes. their V2 controller for the cloudline does not allow you to ramp up the speed based on temps (ie at 70F speed 2, 75F speed 3, 80F speed 4 etc). Once you hit you min temp it just raises it to one specific fan speed. Annoying bc the V1 controller worked as I am describing
*** BONUS - be able to build a pulley system for my lights and control w an app that would let me raise and lower precisely to specific PPFD of canopy 

As far as electronics to tear apart, I have purged pretty much all of my e-waste recently. I guess I could just look on Craigslist for some junk electronics in the Free section and tear those apart.


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 12, 2020)

ilovereggae said:


> thanks @Mak'er Grow
> 
> Funny thing, I actually have a whole Arduino kit, and when I looked, I think its literally made for what I want lol.
> 
> ...


That kit is a very good place to start. It should give you a great start with understanding components and programming Arduinos.
I live in an apartment so I find old equipment around the trash bins sometimes...I only grab useful things tho...vacuums dont have many useful parts...lol
You should have all those projects you want to do completed by next week...lol...no, but really you can do every one of them in time I'm sure and we are here if you need some help along the way.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 12, 2020)

ilovereggae said:


> thanks @Mak'er Grow
> 
> Funny thing, I actually have a whole Arduino kit, and when I looked, I think its literally made for what I want lol.
> 
> ...


A lot of the parts you can buy online from amazon etc cheap. Been trying for years to get some capacitors to fix a power supply for a nice Viewsonic 24" monitor. Kind of moot now as I've bought 3 monitors from thrift stores and garage sales since but I got a 500pc box of caps online for $15 and 2600 resistors for about the same. Now I'm going to try fixing it using my battery powered heatless soldering iron. Bought that 5 years ago and never had a use for it 'til now. I have a few other soldering irons from 20 to 80W and a soldering gun too. Good wwith all of them.

You have a nice bunch of projects lined up already.

I don't know much about electronics either but in a year from now . . .


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 12, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> A lot of the parts you can buy online from amazon etc cheap. Been trying for years to get some capacitors to fix a power supply for a nice Viewsonic 24" monitor. Kind of moot now as I've bought 3 monitors from thrift stores and garage sales since but I got a 500pc box of caps online for $15 and 2600 resistors for about the same. Now I'm going to try fixing it using my battery powered heatless soldering iron. Bought that 5 years ago and never had a use for it 'til now. I have a few other soldering irons from 20 to 80W and a soldering gun too. Good wwith all of them.
> 
> You have a nice bunch of projects lined up already.
> 
> I don't know much about electronics either but in a year from now . . .


I've wore out 3 soldering pencils in the past year myself...just ordered another from China a few weeks ago...hope it gets here soon the tip on my current one is only about 1/4" long now and cant find a replacement for it.
I have a little USB one too, but tip broke and I haven't ordered a new one yet for it.
Well if you can't fix the monitor you can always rip some good parts from it for projects


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## Timezone (Jan 13, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> I have tried the DS18B20 and found the readings jump up and down a lot and just didn't seem to stay at a proper reading.


Sampling too fast for the resolution maybe? Here's a guide for DS18B20 temperature sensor with Arduino board...



Mak'er Grow said:


> From what I read the 4 pin boards are 5v and the 6 pin boards are 3.3v, but not sure...is there anyway to figure out what is what?


While I've never used one, after some quick reading, it is my understanding that the 4 pin boards use the I2C protocol where as the 6 pin boards use the I2C or SPI protocols.

The BMP280 chip is a 3,3Vdc device. When you got the chip on the 4 pin board, the board may or may not have contained a regulator to allow use with 5Vdc. Where did you get it, or what brand?

I haven't worked with pressure yet but may be adding something to my control, I've something in mind...


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 13, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Sampling too fast for the resolution maybe? Here's a guide for DS18B20 temperature sensor with Arduino board...
> 
> 
> While I've never used one, after some quick reading, it is my understanding that the 4 pin boards use the I2C protocol where as the 6 pin boards use the I2C and SPI protocols.
> ...


Since the Mega2560 only has 1 set of I2C inputs and I have a I2C RTC I needed to add a 1 to 8 I2C multiplexer.








1.52C$ 18% OFF|1pcs MCU 9548 TCA9548A 1 to 8 I2C 8 way multi channel expansion board IIC module development board|development board|board developmentboard module - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com




My setup has 4 boxes/tents so I purchased 4 of these sensors.








2.8C$ |GY BME280 BME280 Pressure Temperature Sensor Module for Arduino 3.3V/5V|Integrated Circuits| - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com




It makes more sense now that the SPI uses 6 pins and I2C uses 4 pins...I didn't even think of that...thanks.
I believe these are BME280 boards now I look back at the listing and it says it can use 3.3 or 5v. Where I will be using them at 5v...well trying them at 5v...lol

As far as the DS18B20 goes I'm now thinking it may be a different model...the ones I bought were 2 wires and waterproof...will go back and find out what I actually bought.
I thought they were analog devices so I used them on analog pins to the Arduino...hrmmm...got me thinking again...lol


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## Timezone (Jan 13, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Good thread here


Welcome and thanks, @ChiefRunningPhist


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## Timezone (Jan 13, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> Where I will be using them at 5v...well trying them at 5v.


With the Arduino Uno or Mega or other 5Vdc based microcontrollers. The two ESPs that I use and the Pi are 3.3V.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 13, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> I've wore out 3 soldering pencils in the past year myself...just ordered another from China a few weeks ago...hope it gets here soon the tip on my current one is only about 1/4" long now and cant find a replacement for it.
> I have a little USB one too, but tip broke and I haven't ordered a new one yet for it.
> Well if you can't fix the monitor you can always rip some good parts from it for projects


What are you doing to your soldering pencils? I've had my smallest for 50 years and it's still fine. Bought it to do a project in grade 8 electricity shop.


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 13, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> What are you doing to your soldering pencils? I've had my smallest for 50 years and it's still fine. Bought it to do a project in grade 8 electricity shop.


I have a bad habit of leaving them on for days. I sometimes forget to unplug them and then notice like 3 days later...yup I know, I know...lol
For some reason the tips started to slowly dissolve/shrink. 2 Did this over the past few years, but came to find out I couldn't buy a replacement tip due to the age of them. I had them for 20+ years tho.
The USB one wasn't made well and the tip snapped...think it may have had a crack in it from the start...over a few months the tip started bending and eventually just broke.
Maybe some day I'll find and order new tips for them all since they still heat up...just no tips...lol
I think I paid like $10 each for the 2 @30w and the USB was like $6 from China...so for the price of $5-10 for a new one I figured I just start again and this time also order a couple spare tips.


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 13, 2020)

Timezone said:


> With the Arduino Uno or Mega or other 5Vdc based microcontrollers. The two ESPs that I use and the Pi are 3.3V.


My project is all run from Mega2560...so kinda stuck at 5v unless I run another supply.

I have changed things a little now from the above pics...analog lines are not used due to the sensors are now I2C.


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## Timezone (Jan 13, 2020)

I got kits mailed to me when I was eight or ten, one a month for several months. Neat projects like a cat's whisker radio, wind your own motor and run it on a lemon, nickel plating a penny, that kind of kit. I hadn't thought about those... I guess that was my first introduction to electricity, although now that I think of it, there was an earlier event... something to do with a fork and an outlet.  Buy the kits if you have the money, especially if it has projects or instructions for the different components. I wouldn't buy kits that are just a bunch of parts that you'll never use. I gave two Unos to a couple of kids I know, for Christmas, maybe stir up some interest in a new generation. @OldMedUser, I can't wait for you to get your Mega.

By the time I graduated high school, back when old school was new, I was a stoner with an old motorcycle and freedom. I've grown cannabis off and on since then and about two years ago had to stop. While I have been waiting for the zone I live in to catch up, I've built a wireless control system for the original specifications shown above (except the water chiller and a water heater), as well as wireless automatic watering system for seven plants. I am working on a version for hydroponics as that's where I shine. It's the same control without the soil sensors, pump, etc., but including the water chiller/heater controls, as well as water level, automatic feeding and ph controls. There may be more features in the future.

I don't know it all by far but I've come a long way in a year and I'm excited. I'm now using C/C++ that the Arduino IDE uses to program the ESP8266s, Python for the Pi, and MQTT and Node-RED. 


This is one of my wifi controlled boxes before being labeled. Each outlet is individually controlled and rated (by me) 120Vac 15A 1800W (total) from plug, through box, to outlets. You plug this into the wall and plug two devices, such as an 1500W heater and air conditioner into the two outlets, set a few limits on the Pi and let it run.


This is the inside with an ESP8266 controller and power supply on the green board, and the relays below.


This is the black box containing all the sensors and seven soil moisture sensors on 1M cables (not shown).


and the inside...


and the Node-RED on the Pi.

Later...


----------



## Timezone (Jan 13, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> My project is all run from Mega2560...so kinda stuck at 5v unless I run another supply.


Not necessarily, there are bidirectional level shifters that convert signals from 3.3Vdc to 5Vdc and back. Signals not voltages.


----------



## Mak'er Grow (Jan 13, 2020)

Timezone said:


> I got kits mailed to me when I was eight or ten, one a month for several months. Neat projects like a cat's whisker radio, wind your own motor and run it on a lemon, nickel plating a penny, that kind of kit. I hadn't thought about those... I guess that was my first introduction to electricity, although now that I think of it, there was an earlier event... something to do with a fork and an outlet.  Buy the kits if you have the money, especially if it has projects or instructions for the different components. I wouldn't buy kits that are just a bunch of parts that you'll never use. I gave two Unos to a couple of kids I know, for Christmas, maybe stir up some interest in a new generation. @OldMedUser, I can't wait for you to get your Mega.
> 
> By the time I graduated high school, back when old school was new, I was a stoner with an old motorcycle and freedom. I've grown cannabis off and on since then and about two years ago had to stop. While I have been waiting for the zone I live in to catch up, I've built a wireless control system for the original specifications shown above (except the water chiller and a water heater), as well as wireless automatic watering system for seven plants. I am working on a version for hydroponics as that's where I shine. It's the same control without the soil sensors, pump, etc., but including the water chiller/heater controls, as well as water level, automatic feeding and ph controls. There may be more features in the future.
> 
> ...


Looks very nice. I'm still in the construct/testing phases with mine so no fancy enclosures or boxes just yet...lol
As a kid I ripped apart my toys that stopped working to see how they worked and to see if I could fix them...most of the time I failed, but now and then I got lucky...lol
When I hit highschool I took electronics and 2nd year the teacher asked if I wanted to build a Heath kit robot that had been there for a few years. Most of the students in the class were just there to get a credit and had no interest, but myself and 2 other students built the robot and it worked for the most part...was a blast.


----------



## Mak'er Grow (Jan 13, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Not necessarily, there are bidirectional level shifters that convert signals from 3.3Vdc to 5Vdc and back. Signals not voltages.


I just think more parts/converters then more possible failures are possible.


----------



## Timezone (Jan 13, 2020)

The enclosures and cables and labeling can get costly but makes it safer to use.


----------



## Timezone (Jan 13, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> I just think more parts/converters then more possible failures are possible.


Think of them as Legos.


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 13, 2020)

Timezone said:


> The enclosures and cables and labeling can get costly but makes it safer to use.


Yes it is much safe for sure. The only ones I really need to get enclosed as of now are the relay boards running the lights and main pumps.

The Mega can wait since its only 5v and a few in/out signal lines.


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 13, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> I just think more parts/converters then more possible failures are possible.


I see it like this...
I can do converters and so on and know how it all works and fix what ever goes wrong, but if I make one for my semi-dumb cousin that just wants to grow and something fails then I'm the one fixing it for him, but if I keep parts simple and limit it to a minimum then he may be able to just replace a simple board here or there if need be.
I just wouldn't want him to be replacing parts until it worked...it could get costly.


----------



## Timezone (Jan 13, 2020)

Much heat coming off those solid state relays? I was thinking about those instead of relays but was concerned about the heat when carrying a 15A load. The ones I considered required large heat sinks.


----------



## ToFarGone (Jan 13, 2020)

I’ll be honest way to many posts and so much information to fully read through  however I’d love to see some of the codes you guys are running


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 13, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Much heat coming off those solid state relays? I was thinking about those instead of relays but was concerned about the heat when carrying a 15A load. The ones I considered required large heat sinks.


The SSR's only run the 120v pumps that draw I think 8W. The SSR's are only rated for 2amps...thats why I swapped 2 of the 4 out for 5amp relays...didn't pay attention when I bought them and my lights pull about 3.5amps so they fried after about a day...lol
Larger SSRs are hard to find at a reasonable cost I find. They also get very big...5amp SSR was like +4cm compared to these at about 2cm...in length.


----------



## Timezone (Jan 13, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> I can do converters and so on and know how it all works and fix what ever goes wrong, but if I make one for my semi-dumb cousin that just wants to grow and something fails then I'm the one fixing it for him, but if I keep parts simple and limit it to a minimum then he may be able to just replace a simple board here or there if need be.
> I just wouldn't want him to be replacing parts until it worked...it could get costly.


I understand.


But sooner or later you may require one or two.


----------



## Mak'er Grow (Jan 13, 2020)

ToFarGone said:


> I’ll be honest way to many posts and so much information to fully read through  however I’d love to see some of the codes you guys are running


I'd post mine, but its a mess still...lol
I have lines in there that really doesn't do anything besides adjust values on the fly...like I can input "h" and it adds an hour to the time...used for my 2nd test mega that doesn't have a RTC so I can test on/off times and not have to wait hours.


----------



## Mak'er Grow (Jan 13, 2020)

Timezone said:


> I understand.
> 
> View attachment 4455886
> But sooner or later you may require one or two.


Oh I know I will for sure. I bought 2 tiny cameras that run at 3.3 and the little bit of reading I have done on them says they run at 3.3...so when I get to them I'm sure its either buy more/new or use converters...lol
And something about non-fifo...would have to go back and re-read, but they aren't needed yet.


----------



## Timezone (Jan 13, 2020)

ToFarGone said:


> I’ll be honest way to many posts and so much information to fully read through  however I’d love to see some of the codes you guys are running


Welcome @ToFarGone , we've just begun... and eventually I will get to coding.


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 13, 2020)

I have only managed to get the relays working properly, the 2.8" LCD, RTC showing date and time, temp sensors reading/displaying...but now these will be getting updated, reading info from SD for timers and just started coding the touch screen.
So far its @ 603 lines...lol


----------



## Timezone (Jan 13, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> I'd post mine, but its a mess still...lol


So are parts of mine.

We need to talk about time and how it's handled on the various microcontrollers, SOCs (System On Chip)
and SBCs (Single Board Computer).


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 13, 2020)

Timezone said:


> So are parts of mine.
> 
> We need to talk about time and how it's handled on the various microcontrollers, SOCs (System On Chip)
> and SBCs (Single Board Computer).


Not sure what you mean. I'm using a RTC (real time clock) shield that runs from a 2032 battery if power goes out.
When Arduino boots up it reads the shield and then displays the time on the LCD.
Works great unless the battery dies.


----------



## Timezone (Jan 13, 2020)

I'm working with five Arduino IDE, C/C++, programs on the four ESP8266s and an ESP32, and one Python program on the Pi. I'm running the Pi as a MQTT broker/server and Node-RED to tie everything together.


----------



## Mak'er Grow (Jan 13, 2020)

Timezone said:


> I'm working with five Arduino IDE, C/C++, programs on the four ESP8266s and an ESP32, and one Python program on the Pi. I'm running the Pi as a MQTT broker/server and Node-RED to tie everything together.


YIKES...I find just the Arduino IDE takes enough of my time...lol


----------



## friedguy (Jan 13, 2020)

I had a crazy, over-developed system that I made with arduinos as remote sensor controllers and a pi as the head using SQL for communication between them all. User variables were set using a control and monitoring website. Controlled EC, pH, water pumps, fans, co2, IR (for phytochrome manipulation), UV, auto switched to flower mode at a user set interval, logged all data every minute, etc. Worked great but was way overkill.

I made a new, simpler system that only controls temp, rh and co2. My lights are now controlled with a standard timer and no more phytochrome manipulation. UV is on as long as the lights are on. Gone organic, so watering is ro using blumats. Less is sometimes more.

What sensors are you running for the grow room environment? I played with quite a few but settled on the K30 for co2 and the sht-31 for temp/RH.


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 13, 2020)

friedguy said:


> I had a crazy, over-developed system that I made with arduinos as remote sensor controllers and a pi as the head using SQL for communication between them all. User variables were set using a control and monitoring website. Controlled EC, pH, water pumps, fans, co2, IR (for phytochrome manipulation), UV, auto switched to flower mode at a user set interval, logged all data every minute, etc. Worked great but was way overkill.
> 
> I made a new, simpler system that only controls temp, rh and co2. My lights are now controlled with a standard timer and no more phytochrome manipulation. UV is on as long as the lights are on. Gone organic, so watering is ro using blumats. Less is sometimes more.
> 
> What sensors are you running for the grow room environment? I played with quite a few but settled on the K30 for co2 and the sht-31 for temp/RH.


I'm tryig to keep mine simple as well.
I use basic temp/humidity/pressure/altitude all in 1 sensors...BME280.
I don't use CO2 so no need for that sensor myself.


----------



## Timezone (Jan 13, 2020)

Welcome @friedguy, sounds like a lot of wiring involved.


----------



## Timezone (Jan 13, 2020)

friedguy said:


> What sensors are you running for the grow room environment? I played with quite a few but settled on the K30 for co2 and the sht-31 for temp/RH.


I'm using a DHT22 for temperature and humidity, and a DFRobot Gravity: Analog Infrared CO2 Sensor. I'm using capacitive soil sensors. In progress is adding a PZEM-004T-R3 to each outlet box to track electrical consumption.


----------



## Timezone (Jan 13, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> I find just the Arduino IDE takes enough of my time


I'm retired... and my system is simple, ESP8266s instead of Arduinos.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 13, 2020)

Timezone said:


> ESP8266s instead of Arduinos.


How's that work? I was just going to order a 2nd knock-off Arduino that has good reviews, and a couple of those esp6366s and the 822s?

Where does a guy get those little PC boards that you can mount your own stuff on. I need a couple of small ones for that circuit for my colloidal silver generator. I've seen the copper clad ones but not the pinstripe tape stuff for covering the conductive bits you want to keep after etching. They used to make a liquid like WhiteOut you painted on, let dry for a bit then dunked in the etching fluid. I see a couple of pre-made ones in a couple of your pics last page @Timezone. Everything I click on Amazon.ca says can't ship to my location. Coming from China and a lot of electronic and computer stuff Amazon won't ship from there. Might have to rip a TV or something apart and grab a piece there.

Supposed to finally get those current limiting chips I need for the project.

And what is that Node-Red stuff all about?


----------



## TrippleDip (Jan 13, 2020)

ilovereggae said:


> Unless you all think that my best bet is to jump in and learn as I go?


Yes. Your crash course is V=IR and everything basic is just that reordered. Imho, you will get further with a goal that you can work towards and learning as you encounter obstacles. Just not giving up when things don't work out is the key - you will fry many devices before you will consider yourself intermediate, and then you will probably fry even more.


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## TrippleDip (Jan 13, 2020)

I've been working on something similar for my grow. Decided to go with the raspi, basically have two four outlet electrical boxes side by side. The first has the relays, the second has 8 outlets. Used the 7" touchscreen display in portrait mode for basic functionality. Four screens which can be swept between. First is a history of the temp and humidity displayed over 1,2, or 7 days. I used the dht22 for the sensor.


Second is the main screen and displays from top to bottom: The date and time. Readings from the three temp/humidity sensors and the min/max since the last reset. A button for resetting the min/max to current values. A list of the current relay states - a tap on the on-off button turns the outlet on or off. Tapping the name, allows you to customize the name. The two bottom devices are variable voltage out with 5 speeds for my pwm fan controller. Bottom of the screen is a list of rules that are executed from top to bottom. The "i" beside the one rule means it is currently inactive


The rules can be added or edited in a simple dialog.


Last two pages are calendars. Text can be added to the days and the title can be changed by tapping on them. The calendars can be loaded and saved for future reference. Two calendars because 4 plant limit = 2 plants in veg and 2 in flower always.


I can upload the code/schematics somewhere if anyone's interested. Also for the pwm motor controllers, and for a dosimeter/nutrient liquid dispenser. But if you're tech savvy I basically used the max595 to shift out to the relays or resistor ladder for the variable voltage out. This allows the pi to be power cycled without losing the outputs momentarily. The goal is to build a power manager / power supply that can be in communication with the pi and that either can reset the other if things go weird. The dosimeter is literally the circuit from the 555 datasheet on the back of a relay x 4.


----------



## TrippleDip (Jan 14, 2020)

Timezone said:


> We need to talk about time and how it's handled on the various microcontrollers, SOCs (System On Chip)
> and SBCs (Single Board Computer).


NTP, ie update over wifi and forgo the clock was the solution I used.



Mak'er Grow said:


> I've wore out 3 soldering pencils in the past year myself...


soldering pencils?







Timezone said:


> I got kits mailed to me when I was eight or ten, one a month for several months. Neat projects like a cat's whisker radio, wind your own motor and run it on a lemon, nickel plating a penny, that kind of kit. I hadn't thought about those... I guess that was my first introduction to electricity, although now that I think of it, there was an earlier event... something to do with a fork and an outlet.  Buy the kits if you have the money, especially if it has projects or instructions for the different components. I wouldn't buy kits that are just a bunch of parts that you'll never use. I gave two Unos to a couple of kids I know, for Christmas, maybe stir up some interest in a new generation. @OldMedUser, I can't wait for you to get your Mega.
> 
> By the time I graduated high school, back when old school was new, I was a stoner with an old motorcycle and freedom. I've grown cannabis off and on since then and about two years ago had to stop. While I have been waiting for the zone I live in to catch up, I've built a wireless control system for the original specifications shown above (except the water chiller and a water heater), as well as wireless automatic watering system for seven plants. I am working on a version for hydroponics as that's where I shine. It's the same control without the soil sensors, pump, etc., but including the water chiller/heater controls, as well as water level, automatic feeding and ph controls. There may be more features in the future.
> 
> ...


That is a very nice solution, the waterproof boxes look like something you would find in industry.


----------



## Mak'er Grow (Jan 14, 2020)

Good to see more people having an interest in these projects and welcome @TrippleDip
Nice idea, but when soldering 300 LEDs I don't think its very practical...600 solder points...lol
I'd probably spend more buying pencils then an actual soldering pencil. 

Thats a nice setup you have made. I hope to create a similar device, but it will be a little more limited mainly due to smaller and cheaper parts I'm using...lol
I'm still learning the programming/coding side of the touch screens, but I have figured out how to show different screens depending on where its touched (now that just sounds wrong...lol)...next I may try to figure out swipes, but I'm not sure where I'd use it in mine...yet.
My device is just doing a few basics for now until I get more time to do the code side of things...I go researching for one thing and end up learning how to teach elephants sign language some how.


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 14, 2020)

Found a place in Winnipeg that sells copper clad PC boards for not much. $10 will get me enough to do a dozen of the little circuits I need for my 4 component circuit. Then I need the circuit transfer sheets to print the circuit on then use an iron to stick it to the copper. Pack of 10 - 8.5 x 11" is $25. One sheet would make me a dozen boards. 500ml bottle of etching fluid is another $15 then shipping another $20 probably. I want to make one little board about 2x3" for fug sake!!



Did a little looking around on the web and skip the etching fluid, acid will do. I have conc. sulphuric and nitric acids so that's covered. I can make aqua regia with that and it'll eat almost anything.

Still need something to mark out the lines and we used to use stuff like pinstripe tape and little circle ends to stick on where you wanted to leave copper. Those sheets. Way overkill.

Found this real ghetto circuit board a guy did with tinfoil, tape, piece of plastic to stick the lines of foil on to make a simple flashlight. Goofy as hell but it worked. Then the proverbial light bulb went off over my head and I remembered some copper foil tape used in stained glass making stuck in the back of a drawer in the workbench in the shop. Strong adhesive, temperature resistant backing on copper foil. 4 rolls in the drawer with 7/32(5.56mm) being the thinnest and still wide compared to normal lines. I figure I can use it on some hard, thin non-conductive material like a piece of countertop formica. Going to be a lot bigger than a nice neat PCB but I betcha I can make it work.

EDIT: Just after I posted this I tried cutting an 8" strip lengthwise and it was dead easy so just shrunk my PCB a bunch. 



I have this cool little battery powered Cold Heat soldering iron with this really fragile looking double electrode tip. Both ends have to be in contact with the copper and solder to cause them to heat up and fuse. I bought it years ago and never got around to using it. Was $30 I think.



My chance to bust a tip and end up with a useless tool now eh @Mak'er Grow ! lol



I'll fall back on old faithful if that gizmo won't do it. Bought this for a grade 8 electric class project to make a kit that would flash lights in time to the music. Got an A+ for it and used to sit down in the basement at home with my buddies all tripping on 'cid and zoning out on the 3-D lights grooving with Jimi or the Doors. 23.5W and I can plug it into my variac to control the heat but used to use an 80W iron with that tape back when I did stained glass. Been using it to melt extra holes in those flimsy 3" pots my little plants are in so need to re-tin it. Get it hot and stick it in my one pound tub of flux and once clean put a drop of solder on it. I stole that tub from grade 8 metal shop class. 



I'll take pics of the build once my LM334Z chips get here with my Arduino Wednesday maybe.


----------



## Dougnsalem (Jan 14, 2020)

TrippleDip said:


> .......soldering pencils?


I need to go back and start at the begining of the thread again. Man, lots of great info. I just have to say- I've done tons of electronic stuff over the years, and I've never seen the pencil deal done before. That's hilarious!!! I am going to remember it though. I have a major problem finding an iron, when I need one..... Lol


----------



## spek9 (Jan 14, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> Oh I know I will for sure. I bought 2 tiny cameras that run at 3.3 and the little bit of reading I have done on them says they run at 3.3...so when I get to them I'm sure its either buy more/new or use converters...lol
> And something about non-fifo...would have to go back and re-read, but they aren't needed yet.


In many cases when you need to shift voltage in a circuit, you can use a simple voltage divider instead of a transistor or voltage level shifter. A voltage divider means nothing more than adding a couple of resistors to your circuit. You can learn about them right here.

I just started viewing this thread yesterday. I've been engineering and building things (grow room automation, home security, community-based water purification systems etc) with Arduino, ESP, Raspberry Pi etc for several years, and will likely become more active in this forum.

I've written libraries in several languages for dozens of microcontrollers, SBCs, sensors and ICs of all types, so I'll do my best to help out here whenever I can.


----------



## HolyAngel (Jan 14, 2020)

This looks really promising! Great work so far!

On a side note tho, have you seen this?





r/Pigrow


r/Pigrow: The Pigrow is an open-source device for managing a growbox or greenhouse, with programmable power sockets that can be used to control …




www.reddit.com


----------



## Timezone (Jan 14, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> How's that work?


Get to know your Mega first and I'll show you.



OldMedUser said:


> Where does a guy get those little PC boards that you can mount your own stuff on?


Try an Amazone search for PCB breadboard, I'm going to try these next as I think they will be easier to work with.



OldMedUser said:


> And what is that Node-Red stuff all about?


Node-RED is a programming tool that I use to connect everything wifi, together. It's probably on your Pi.


----------



## Timezone (Jan 14, 2020)

TrippleDip said:


> I've been working on something similar for my grow. Decided to go with the raspi


Good to have another Pi fan, welcome @TrippleDip.

That's a nice interface, Python?



TrippleDip said:


> I can upload the code/schematics somewhere if anyone's interested.


I'm interested but it's probably too early. How many lines of code? Pictures?



TrippleDip said:


> But if you're tech savvy I basically used the max595 to shift out to the relays or resistor ladder for the variable voltage out. This allows the pi to be power cycled without losing the outputs momentarily. The goal is to build a power manager / power supply that can be in communication with the pi and that either can reset the other if things go weird. The dosimeter is literally the circuit from the 555 datasheet on the back of a relay x 4.


You must be into this stuff more than I am! Is max595 a 74HC595? and I know what a 555 is... 

As far as NTP, Network Time Protocol, I was referring to time keeping on the devices without network access. Counting seconds and/or milliseconds to time things on say, the Mega. One of the earlier request from @OldMedUser was a controller with no connection to the internet.



TrippleDip said:


> That is a very nice solution, the waterproof boxes look like something you would find in industry.


Thanks, that's what I'm shooting for.


----------



## Timezone (Jan 14, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> Good to see more people having an interest in these projects and welcome @TrippleDip
> Nice idea, but when soldering 300 LEDs I don't think its very practical...600 solder points...lol
> I'd probably spend more buying pencils then an actual soldering pencil.
> 
> ...


It is good to see more people, isn't it? and thanks, I seldom put the money into the extras like cases and lasered cutouts and labeling, but I want to take this project all the way.


----------



## Timezone (Jan 14, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Found a place in Winnipeg that sells copper clad PC boards for not much. $10 will get me enough to do a dozen of the little circuits I need for my 4 component circuit. Then I need the circuit transfer sheets to print the circuit on then use an iron to stick it to the copper. Pack of 10 - 8.5 x 11" is $25. One sheet would make me a dozen boards. 500ml bottle of etching fluid is another $15 then shipping another $20 probably. I want to make one little board about 2x3" for fug sake!!









Though many years ago I etched my own boards, in the last year, I've used boards like this. You could get a kit of 50, in different sizes, from you know where. Just look at the different sizes, you could use the smallest for your 4 component circuit.






I'm going to try this type of board next for a prototyping project.



OldMedUser said:


> Did a little looking around on the web and skip the etching fluid, acid will do. I have conc. sulphuric and nitric acids so that's covered. I can make aqua regia with that and it'll eat almost anything.
> 
> Still need something to mark out the lines and we used to use stuff like pinstripe tape and little circle ends to stick on where you wanted to leave copper. Those sheets. Way overkill.


If it's for one board, why go through the hassle of etching?



OldMedUser said:


> Found this real ghetto circuit board a guy did with tinfoil, tape, piece of plastic to stick the lines of foil on to make a simple flashlight. Goofy as hell but it worked. Then the proverbial light bulb went off over my head and I remembered some copper foil tape used in stained glass making stuck in the back of a drawer in the workbench in the shop. Strong adhesive, temperature resistant backing on copper foil. 4 rolls in the drawer with 7/32(5.56mm) being the thinnest and still wide compared to normal lines. I figure I can use it on some hard, thin non-conductive material like a piece of countertop formica. Going to be a lot bigger than a nice neat PCB but I betcha I can make it work.


I bet you can, go for it, but I want pictures.



OldMedUser said:


> I'll take pics of the build once my LM334Z chips get here with my Arduino Wednesday maybe.


Cool!


----------



## Timezone (Jan 14, 2020)

spek9 said:


> In many cases when you need to shift voltage in a circuit, you can use a simple voltage divider instead of a transistor or voltage level shifter. A voltage divider means nothing more than adding a couple of resistors to your circuit.


Welcome @spek9 and thanks for that tip. I've used simple voltage dividers while shifting individual 3.3Vdc digital signals to 5Vdc.



spek9 said:


> I just started viewing this thread yesterday. I've been engineering and building things (grow room automation, home security, community-based water purification systems etc) with Arduino, ESP, Raspberry Pi etc for several years, and will likely become more active in this forum.
> 
> I've written libraries in several languages for dozens of microcontrollers, SBCs, sensors and ICs of all types, so I'll do my best to help out here whenever I can.


Thanks, we can use the input/help/expertize. We are all on a path of knowledge leading towards better cannabis cultivation.


----------



## Timezone (Jan 14, 2020)

HolyAngel said:


> This looks really promising! Great work so far!


Thanks and welcome @HolyAngel.



HolyAngel said:


> On a side note tho, have you seen this?


No, but I'll take a look... it goes on forever but something to look at guys.


----------



## spek9 (Jan 14, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Welcome @spek9 and thanks for that tip. I've used simple voltage dividers while shifting individual 3.3Vdc digital signals to 5Vdc.
> 
> 
> Thanks, we can use the input/help/expertize. We are all on a path of knowledge leading towards better cannabis cultivation.


Thanks for the welcome!

Currently, I'm building an alarm system for when my power goes out. All of my grow tents and cabinets (other than my clone tent) are down in my basement that sits at about 50F. However, it's gotten very cold lately, so it's closer to 40F (no heat in the basement).

I needed a system to alert me if the power goes off when I'm sleeping, so that I can either bring the plants upstairs where I have gas heat, or go fire up the generator to keep the lamps and fans running. Otherwise, the plants will surely be damaged.

For this, I'm using one of my many Pro Minis. It runs off of an 18650 3.7V battery. The battery is connected to a charge controller, then to a step-up converter to 5V. The Mini is connected to the converter. When the charger is plugged in, the circuit is off, but the battery is being charged (charging stops when the battery is at capacity).

If the power to the charger is disconnected (ie. power goes out), the circuit goes live (on battery), and sounds a piezo buzzer alarm.

Because it's meant to sit on my nightstand, I've incorporated nine WS2812 neopixels in a 3x3 matrix, where you can switch between red or white illumination, and between 10 levels of brightness (using tactile switches). This "lamp" I'll be using to read in bed.

Because there's only power if the battery is disconnected, the lamp only works when the alarm technically would be going off. I put a five second delay after disconnect and before alarm, with another tactile button to disable the alarm before switching on the light. Using the light utilizes the battery so it doesn't sit stagnant forever.

When reconnected, the Mini shuts off, resetting the sketch variables, so it immediately returns to alarm mode.

Very, very simple. Today I'm migrating from the breadboard prototype to PCB. I'll be using thin, clear plexiglass as well as a tiny dollar store kitchen container to store it all.


----------



## friedguy (Jan 14, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Welcome @friedguy, sounds like a lot of wiring involved.


Wasn't bad. Arduino ethernet shields made it easy. I could have gone wireless but I had the shields already so I got lazy. I cheat and used the CAT5 for all the I2C decives too... each of the 4 twisted pairs worked great for +5, gnd, clock and data connections. Plus I get all zen when I'm stoney and wiring.


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## Timezone (Jan 14, 2020)

Cool (40F) project @spek9.  



friedguy said:


> Wasn't bad. Arduino ethernet shields made it easy. I could have gone wireless but I had the shields already so I got lazy. I cheat and used the CAT5 for all the I2C decives too... each of the 4 twisted pairs worked great for +5, gnd, clock and data connections. Plus I get all zen when I'm stoney and wiring.


I got it, and I'm the same way...


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## OldMedUser (Jan 14, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Try an Amazone search for PCB breadboard, I'm going to try these next as I think they will be easier to work with.


I was looking at those and wondering how they worked for connecting the different components. Do you have to use wires underneath to connect or break the copper connections where you don't want them? My ignorance abounds! lol

Anything that ships from overseas computer or electronics related Amazon won't ship. They claim it's their policy for security reasons. Tried over at BangGood and Ali and got the same notice when I clicked on things to view them. Red letters saying they can't ship this item to my location. Goes to the Post Office so that may be it but that's my only pick-up point around here. Very frustrating.

I'll have to see if I reset to Purolator or FedEx if things like that will ship OK. PITA!

This place in Winnipeg has some stuff. https://www.tiptopelectronics.com/home.asp?MENU=Chemicals&lCategory=141

Not finding a suitable substitute for my PCB but have yet to plumb the depths of the junk around here.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 14, 2020)

spek9 said:


> Currently, I'm building an alarm system for when my power goes out. All of my grow tents and cabinets (other than my clone tent) are down in my basement that sits at about 50F. However, it's gotten very cold lately, so it's closer to 40F (no heat in the basement).
> 
> I needed a system to alert me if the power goes off when I'm sleeping, so that I can either bring the plants upstairs where I have gas heat, or go fire up the generator to keep the lamps and fans running. Otherwise, the plants will surely be damaged.


Welcome to the thread!

I have a similar basement grow room. Nice not to need AC and it doesn't cool off fast if the power goes out but a decent flood alarm would be top of my list. Sprung a leak just a couple weeks ago. Light bulb I was using to keep the water from freezing up in one top corner where weasels removed some insulation was resting against the plastic water line to the house and melted a pinhole in it. Patched it up with Shoe Goop, inner-tube rubber. plastic pipe over that and a couple hose clamps. Holding fine but water was all over the floor down there. Bought a small alarm that sits on the floor but can't hear it upstairs. Pressure tank is 30 years old and if it blows then I got real problems. It's all below the water level of my dugout and the basement could fill to the top. Would need scuba gear to fix that. lol

Stupid wall mount fan won't come on when plugged into my light timer power bar. Have to push the power button if the power is interrupted so I think I can open it up and just bypass the power switch then it should turn on when the timer flips on the light. Another PITA.


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## Timezone (Jan 14, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> I was looking at those and wondering how they worked for connecting the different components. Do you have to use wires underneath to connect or break the copper connections where you don't want them? My ignorance abounds! lol


No, you got it right, you do both. On the green boards above, you wire between components, the brownish board has groups of five holes connected together to make interconnections easier. They wire the same way, just uses less wiring. On the full strip board, not shown, you do have to cut the traces to interrupt signal flow. Check out this on Stripboard.



OldMedUser said:


> Not finding a suitable substitute for my PCB but have yet to plumb the depths of the junk around here.


How about Radio Shack?


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## Timezone (Jan 14, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Stupid wall mount fan won't come on when plugged into my light timer power bar. Have to push the power button if the power is interrupted so I think I can open it up and just bypass the power switch then it should turn on when the timer flips on the light. Another PITA.


That can make trying to control things really hard to do, having to push a button every time the timer turns on. Or a reset. Maybe a plunger type solenoid over the button...


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## OldMedUser (Jan 14, 2020)

Timezone said:


> How about Radio Shack?


No such thing anymore. Called The Source now and don't have much in the way of components. I checked last night. The Radio Shack up here changed to All Source andhave no connection to RS or The Source. I do recall seeing breadboards there and a few other things but that was a while ago and I wasn't looking for stuff like that at the time.

I just checked at Amazon and there's a 100pc kit for cheap so might add that to my Cart to get it over $35 and hit Send!






Smraza 100 Pcs PCB Board Kit with 30 Pcs Double Sided Prototype Boards set and 30 Pcs 40 Pin 2.54mm Male and Female Header Connector for DIY Soldering and Electronic Project and Extra 10pcs Screw Terminal Blocks and 30pcs Jumper Caps : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement


Smraza 100 Pcs PCB Board Kit with 30 Pcs Double Sided Prototype Boards set and 30 Pcs 40 Pin 2.54mm Male and Female Header Connector for DIY Soldering and Electronic Project and Extra 10pcs Screw Terminal Blocks and 30pcs Jumper Caps : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement



www.amazon.ca


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## Timezone (Jan 14, 2020)

Nice kit.


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 14, 2020)

I've a chart built in excel that I'd like to transfer to the esp32. I'm not sure how to compile or convert the data into arduino. Its a rather large data set and the chart is active and updated by only a few fields in excel, while all other cells are used for place holding and computational purposes. Im thinking I'll need to add memory to the esp32 and store the file there, like a peripheral sd card, because I'm using the existing memory on the dev board for the HTML page of the webserver. If anyone has any insight or pointers, please do post, thanks.

First glances looks like I'll need to have some java experience along with HTML and C/Arduino. I'm pretty beginner in all.

The broader goal is similar to one or 2 of the designs posted here already. Using a web interface to update and control various functions on the esp32. I'd rather use the screens and tech found in cellphones than build extra LCD screens and control ccts that some designs use to signal an MC.


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 14, 2020)

TrippleDip said:


> I've been working on something similar for my grow. Decided to go with the raspi, basically have two four outlet electrical boxes side by side. The first has the relays, the second has 8 outlets. Used the 7" touchscreen display in portrait mode for basic functionality. Four screens which can be swept between. First is a history of the temp and humidity displayed over 1,2, or 7 days. I used the dht22 for the sensor.
> View attachment 4456047
> 
> Second is the main screen and displays from top to bottom: The date and time. Readings from the three temp/humidity sensors and the min/max since the last reset. A button for resetting the min/max to current values. A list of the current relay states - a tap on the on-off button turns the outlet on or off. Tapping the name, allows you to customize the name. The two bottom devices are variable voltage out with 5 speeds for my pwm fan controller. Bottom of the screen is a list of rules that are executed from top to bottom. The "i" beside the one rule means it is currently inactive
> ...


I'm building a power supply right now with good power factor and efficiency as my main goals. I was trying to develop an arduino program that would control the power factor correction cct, but I think I'm just going to use a dedicated controller. I'm not sure exactly what you're building (you use the max595 to take over while the raspi cycles?) but if you're developing a power supply over 75W we may be on similar paths. Cool project btw, I'd like to use cellphones but essentially what you've built with your raspi + LCD is pretty much what I'm looking to build with an esp32 + web interface.


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## Timezone (Jan 14, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> If anyone has any insight or pointers, please do post, thanks.


Idk Chief, maybe someone has a suggestion?

That's kind of what I'm doing only I'm using a Pi to do the computing required to control everything, as well as data storage on a 32G usb drive, and display and user interface.


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 14, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Idk Chief, maybe someone has a suggestion?
> 
> That's kind of what I'm doing only I'm using a Pi to do the computing required to control everything, as well as data storage on a 32G usb drive, and display and user interface.


Hmmm I went with the esp32 over the raspi initially due to price, but I didn't see the raspi zero, maybe it'll be enough. Don't know much about any of it. Im not partial, I just was trying to route control and graphics through a cellphone.

Are you using python for your raspi? Or how are you coding it?


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## Timezone (Jan 14, 2020)

The difference between a SOC, and SBC. The Pi/Raspbian comes with LibreOffice installed, a suite that includes LibreCalc which you might make use of. Your chart might fit in the Pi a lot easier than in the esp32. 



ChiefRunningPhist said:


> graphics through a cellphone


You mean a web page hosted by the esp32?


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 14, 2020)

Timezone said:


> You mean a web page hosted by the esp32


Ya. Web interface, not necessarily a cell phone, but using the esp32 as a webserver.


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 15, 2020)

Heres an example using the protoboard instead of a breadboard. You solder your traces on the back of the protoboard after you've pushed your "through hole" (TH) components in. You can solder jumpers also. You can use a straight edge and snap the protoboards in half or snap/break them along the perforations/holes to any size you need to start out with. Kinda like skoring sheetrock and snapping at the skor, but with protoboard no skoring is needed.

Here you can see where I scratched away some of the copper on the back of the protoboard just to be safe that there wasn't any conduction between the traces I was a bit uncertain of...

This little board was originally being used to test LED ccts, its a rudimentary capacitive dropper. It was wrapped in electrical tape so to isolate the user from the energized cct. I don't use it anymore, if I were to use it Id want to add a fuse, maybe a MOV, ect. You have to be careful with un-isolated mains power supplies, that's one reason transformers are so widely used, isolation from mains.



Breadboard is great for testing your schematics because you don't need to solder, just push your components into the breadboard and then use jumper wires to connect it all together. Each row is isolated from the next but the holes in each row are all connected together with a metal trace hidden under the holes in the breadboard, they are not very visible from looking down through the holes, but maybe you'll see a bit of a metallic shimmer at the right angle.

Here on the left, 2 little breadboards are linked together to build a bigger cct, the breadboard on the right has an esp32 on it with several LEDs being PWMed by the ESP32 via a seperate power source and switching MOSFETs on/off (PWM) to allow the other power source to power the LEDs. The gate of each MOSFET is linked to a different GPIO...


Looking at someone else's breadboard will be confusing, especially at first. Same with schematics. Most times people design a cct or schematic and then explain how it operates in steps when posting online or even in the data sheets it gets explained thoroughly. I guess what I'm saying is don't feel bad if you don't know what's going on in a cct when you first look at it, break it down into its baser components that you are aware of and read the descriptions on how the cct works to gain an understanding. Pretty much everything is made up of resistors, capacitors, diodes, inductors, and transistors. You arrange these base components in different configurations using different quantities, different sizes, ect. These little groups of components or ccts then get strung together to create more complex ccts. You'll see block diagrams in data sheets, most every block or shape will be representing a small cct, and all these smaller ccts are connected together to provide the end user with the final product. The SSR I saw someone writing about is actually a cct, its not just a simple component but an entire cct with all sorts of components ect, you can build them yourselves if you wanted.

EDIT (more stuff on capacitive droppers):
If your mains is 120VAC and 60Hz, then 0.04524 × μF = Amps of constant current. Otherwise if your mains is not 120VAC, then use the capacitive reactance formula to determine how much current will flow.

Capacitive reactance = 1 ÷ (2·PI·Hz·F)

PI = 3.14...
Hz = mains frequency, ie 50Hz or 60Hz
F = farads, need to convert the μF into F, ie divide μF by 1,000,000.

In the posted cct, there's 8 capacitors in parallel (typically only 1 or 2 are used but I needed all the caps I had to achieve ~50mA of constant current, I could have just used 1 cap rated for 1.08μF but all the safety capacitors I had were very small so I had to wire them in parallel to make a bigger "X2" capacitor, "X2" is a safety capacitor) which means you'd add all the capacitors capacitance up together to arrive at a total capacitance to determine the current flow. I only had 8 safety capacitors (X2 style) laying around, 5 × 0.15μF, and 3 × 0.11μF. Together they add up to 1.08μF. The 0.11μF caps didn't state 0.11μF, rather they were rated in Joules, so I found their 0.11μF capacitance using algebra.


Capacitive reactance = 1 ÷ (2 × PI × Hz × F)

2 × PI × 60Hz × 0.00000108F
=
0.00040715

1 ÷ 0.00040715
=
2,456.1Ω

Ohms law:
V = I·R
V/R = I


120VAC ÷ 2456.1
=
0.0488A; 48.8mA

The cct will flow 48.8mA regardless the load. The current will begin to drop as the load voltage increases. If you had 1 LED then 48.8mA would flow, if you had 10, then almost 48.8mA would flow, but once you start getting into high voltages needed, like if you had 30 LEDs in a row then the current will drop even more depending on the size of the capacitor. You'll want some way to limit in rush current so that if you coincidentally energized the cct at peak mains voltage your LED or LOAD won't blow, like perhaps some series resistance possibly.


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## Timezone (Jan 15, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Heres an example using the protoboard instead of a breadboard


Thanks for this great prototyping example and explanation.



ChiefRunningPhist said:


> You have to be careful with un-isolated mains power supplies, that's one reason transformers are so widely used, isolation from mains.


To be a little more specific, when working with mains power, use an isolation transformer such as this,






true isolation transformer. There are a lot of look-alikes that are not true isolation transformers like this,






non-isolated transformer from Amazone.

The isolated output provides galvanic isolation that protects from electric shock, and power transmission between circuits. The isolation transformer is not a cure all and there are still ways to electrocute yourself. That's why, *This will be for educational purposes only, not a guide or how to. If you try any instruction here, you do so at your own peril. Some of the discussion concerns mains power which can be fatal. Be Ye Forewarned!*



ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Breadboard is great for testing your schematics because you don't need to solder, just push your components into the breadboard and then use jumper wires to connect it all together. Each row is isolated from the next but the holes in each row are all connected together with a metal trace hidden under the holes in the breadboard, they are not very visible from looking down through the holes, but maybe you'll see a bit of a metallic shimmer at the right angle.


Here's a good article on breadboards, and how to work with them. It's long but complete and worth a look.



ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Looking at someone else's breadboard will be confusing...


I'm confused after all of that, I was writing this and about to respond when you added more. Let me reread...


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## Timezone (Jan 15, 2020)

Here's my prototype for the black box shown earlier. On the left of the breadboard, is a self contained 5Vdc and 3.3Vdc power supply and the DHT22. On the right is an ESP8266-12E. In the middle is a multiplexer that allows eight adc devices on the 8266, which only comes with one, and an eight channel level shifter. Above the board is one of seven soil moisture sensors and below is my CO2 sensor (0 to 5000 ppm).



ChiefRunningPhist said:


> This little board was originally being used to test LED ccts...


What is cct?


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 15, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Thanks for this great prototyping example and explanation.
> 
> 
> To be a little more specific, when working with mains power, use an isolation transformer such as this,
> ...


Nice, that's a variac, or a variable voltage transformer. I don't have one yet. :/

Here's an example of some transformers used in smaller electronics..
HF transformer (high frequencies, 1kHz+) can be very small, for high power density...


Traditional transformer (50-60Hz) much larger, being less and less common...


Transformers come in all sizes, cm2 to the big metal cans that you see on telephone poles. All transformers operate by induction. Current flows through a wire and creates a magnetic field and then when another coil of wire is placed in the mag field created by the first coil with current flowing through it, then voltage/current is induced into the second coil. In the transformers posted, the 2 coils of wire are wrapped around the center of an E-core, 1 coil wrapped first, then another coil wrapped on top. The E is the core, but the 2 coils never touch or electrically conduct to each other. The wires making up the coils don't conduct to the core or touch the core either (its magic lol). This means theres no electrical connection going from the energized coil into the second coil. Only a magnetic field is connecting the 2 coils. So you're isolated from the input power, or mains. 

A transformer is typically 1 of the first components that mains goes through before heading on down to the rest of the cct. If you were using a capacitive dropper that doesn't require a transformer, then anywhere in your cct you'd have the possibility of having lots of power flow through, if any component failed or you touched/probed the wrong part of the cct you could potentially be directly connected to mains, if you were touching a hot cct with failed components or you were providing a path of conduction with your hand, it would be like sticking your fingers in a socket, it would not be good. Transformers are typically used to step down the voltage in electronics, and your body, blood, skin, ect has a certain resistance to flow current, so if you've stepped the voltage down first then your at less risk of flowing current through your body if you were to accidentally touch the wrong spots, vs if you didn't use a transformer and touched the wrong spots, then your body would be in direct contact with a much higher power source.

The coils have certain resistance associated with them, so if a coil flowed more current than it could handle or was rated for, the coil will melt and then the cct stops working. It would act like a slow burn fuse. "Mains" is just a word for what comes out of the wall socket. If the cct were shorted then the coil would melt and after its deterioration the cct can't possibly flow any more current or very little current depending on how it melted. The components after the transformer would most likely be fried unless there was some sort of power limiting capable of handling the surge that melted the transformer, but most likely all of it would be fried.


E Core...



With coils wound...


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 15, 2020)

Timezone said:


> View attachment 4456998
> Here's my prototype for the black box shown earlier. On the left of the breadboard, is a self contained 5Vdc and 3.3Vdc power supply and the DHT22. On the right is an ESP8266-12E. In the middle is a multiplexer that allows eight adc devices on the 8266, which only comes with one, and an eight channel level shifter. Above the board is one of seven soil moisture sensors and below is my CO2 sensor (0 to 5000 ppm).
> 
> 
> What is cct?


cct = circuit

That looks cool, nice project, does it output to the serial monitor or where do you display your data?


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 15, 2020)

Timezone said:


> *This will be for educational purposes only, not a guide or how to. If you try any instruction here, you do so at your own peril. Some of the discussion concerns mains power which can be fatal. Be Ye Forewarned!*


I like your disclaimer, Ill copy + paste for me too haha


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## Timezone (Jan 15, 2020)

Nice work on transformers. I was referring specifically to isolation transformers which can save one's life. @OldMedUser has a variac though I don't know if it isolates the output or not. I hope not to get into mains too much as too much chance of injury. The only transformers I've had to use so far are the current transformers, CTs, that measure electrical consumption in each of my boxes.

Really bad photos of my interface. This is provided by Node-RED...

an older version...


the latest version has the electrical consumption on the right.


Once the settings are set, they will become the default settings whenever powered up, but you can adjust at any time.


This is the Node-RED part...

I gotta step out, BBL.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 15, 2020)

What am I getting myself into here!

I'm having a hard enough time laying out a little schematic for my 4 component circuit much less build a rat's nest of wires and parts like those above. lol

Did some hunting on old circuit boards for the diode I need and found one that for sure will work. And went thru my new 2600 pack of resistors and found the 43 and 430ohm one so all I need now are the LM334Z chips that should be waiting at the PO now. Too cold at -35 today, (-38.1 for a new record low here last night since 2009).

Found a site to look up the diodes and other parts that gave me the info I needed. Small signal diode. Was hard to find that out for sure on other places I tried.






1N914B Datasheet, PDF - Alldatasheet


1N914B Datasheet SIGNAL DIODE - Rectron Semiconductor HIGH SPEED SWITCHING DIODES, SynSemi, Inc.



www.alldatasheet.com


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## OldMedUser (Jan 15, 2020)

Timezone said:


> @OldMedUser has a variac though I don't know if it isolates the output or not.


Doesn't say anything about isolating on it so I better watch out eh. Was using it last night to plug my soldering iron into for de-soldering parts. Little 45W iron works pretty good for that job.


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## Timezone (Jan 15, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> What am I getting myself into here!
> 
> I'm having a hard enough time laying out a little schematic for my 4 component circuit much less build a rat's nest of wires and parts like those above. lol


Too late now.  Glad you found that diode.



OldMedUser said:


> Doesn't say anything about isolating on it so I better watch out eh.


Really!


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 15, 2020)

Relays are great and offer physical isolation due to their mechanical operation, but if you don't need isolation, just need a switch, then MOSFETs are real nice and easy components to work with, they are smaller and cheaper than relays and can switch at very fast speeds, like 1MHz+, or on & off at 1 million times a second.

They can be rated up to 600V and higher, though mostly are 200V or less for power MOSFETs (bigger beefier switches), and 60V or less for LL MOSFETs (LL = logic level). They require much less power to operate (LL = 5V or less but microamps, or millionths of an amp, power FETs typically need 10V - 18V to work but again at only millionths of an amp, so total power is very low). This allows for you to PWM or control loads that require more power than the esp can produce at each of its GPIO pins.

A GPIO might be able to power an LED or 2, but much more and you're not going to have enough power. So you'd wire your load or LEDs in series with a bigger PS, like a battery ect, and then also wire the MOSFET in series. This way when the MOSFET is on, the cct flows current through the load/LED, but when the MOSFET is off the cct is broken and can't complete so the load/LEDs aren't energized and off. By varying how many times you turn the MOSFET on in a second, as well as how long you turn it on per switching cycle (1 on/off event) you can very how much current is flowed on average. Increasing your PWM duty cycle to be ON for longer than its OFF will make more current flow, and by reducing duty cycle so that your MOSFET is OFF for longer than its ON will reduce current flow, or dim. The quicker you switch, or the more on/off events per second, then the less noticeable the switching is. If you turned an led on for half a second, and then off for half a second, you'd see a strobe rather than a smoothly dimmed light, but if you switched many times in a second you'll see less strobe and more of a smoothly dimmed light. PWM is not just for lights but for anything requiring a dimming transition, like motors ect. You can trigger MOSFETs with your arduino without a shield and your MOSFETs can then be the gatekeeper for your other devices getting power or not or dimming them via PWM ect.

Just like relays, MOSFETs come in all sizes and electrical parameters, so you'll want to shop for FETs that can handle the voltage and current of your cct. N channel MOSFETs are placed after your cct, or close to ground or negative, and P channel MOSFETs are placed before your cct or close to positive. There's all sorts of FETs, some that are initially on (depletion) some that require voltage to turn on (enhancement). P channel MOSFETs have greater resistance when they are switched on and allowing current to flow, so they are less used over their cousin the N - channel MOSFET which has very low resistance when it's on and allowing current to flow.

Armed with a bit of code and utilizing MOSFETs or other switches, you can turn on/off several devices that require more power than the esp can produce. You can dim as well with the PWM function. Imo pretty much all the grow room stuff can be controlled by on/off or PWM (fan speed ect).

Here's a quick schem/graphic showing a MOSFET in series with a seperate power source and a single LED. The MC or microcontroller (esp), and the peripheral cct both share the same ground. The MC GPIO pin is attached to the gate of the MOSFET and in this particular example once a small voltage is sent to the gate the MOSFET turns on and allows current to flow from the batteries, then through the LED, then through the MOSFET, and then to the negative side of the batteries, or GND (ground).


EDIT:
Its a good idea to use some resistance, ie a resistor, in series with LEDs in case your cct isn't current regulated. So in this example I'd want to add a resistor somewhere in the loop because its a voltage source. Voltage source means the voltage is the fixed variable while as much current can flow as the cct will allow, a Current source means current is the fixed variable and voltage will adjust automatically to whatever is needed to flow the fixed current of the current source.


----------



## spek9 (Jan 15, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Too cold at -35 today, (-38.1 for a new record low here last night since 2009).


You're in BC or Alberta, yes?


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## OldMedUser (Jan 15, 2020)

spek9 said:


> You're in BC or Alberta, yes?


Northern Alberta outside a little town called BumF**K! lol Hate it here.


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## spek9 (Jan 15, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Northern Alberta outside a little town called BumF**K! lol Hate it here.


I figured. We're the only two provinces that are getting hammered. I live on the Shuswap in BC now, but up until late last year, I lived way up near Alaska (only moved because I was forced out due to forest fires). That was far outside of BumF**k as well. Sparsely populated, several KM between neighbours. Was starting a self-sufficient lifestyle until the damned fires. It's -45C up that way today (a balmy, t-shirt wearing -16C only where I am now  ).


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 15, 2020)

Most transformers are isolated. Sometimes theres a capacitor connecting both coils but in general the way the transformer works actually creates isolation naturally. If the 2 coils were connected with a jumper or weren't isolated from each other, then you'd have no step up or step down possible because the current flowing through 1 coil would be the same as the current flowing through the other coil. The voltage would be almost the same and the only difference would come from the voltage drop in the resistance of the coils which would be very small. There wouldn't be 2 coils anymore, just 1 coil with a jumper connecting both halves.

A variac is big because it has to operate mechanically and you can get better precision working with mechanical devices when you increase the size. The variac has 2 coils, but also has an arm that slides along the second coil to change the voltage being output. Its hard to explain in words, but transformers' voltage is in relation to the number of turns per coil.

Vout = Vin (turns on coil 2)/(turns in coil 1)

So if you had 120VAC mains, and you had a transformer with 2 coils, the first coil (primary) had 20 turns around the core, the second coil (secondary) had 10 turns or wraps around the core, then your voltage out will be 60VAC. You will have stepped down the voltage.

A variac has 2 coils, both have a set number of turns that doesn't change, but when you rotate the dial, a lever/wiper arm slides along the wires making up the second coil, such that you're essentially changing the number of turns on the second coil, which then produces a different voltage from the input. Most transformer coils are insulated with plastic or some coating (like with magnetic wire, it looks like bare wire but its actually insulated), but with a variac you're actually using bare wire for 1 of the coils so that when your lever/wiper arm slides over the wraps it shorts the current to the lever/arm rather than going through the entire coil.



Whether you're using an isolated transformer or not, you're still at risk for shock. Imo using a transformer for isolation is not about safety but more about culture. If you've a cct that uses a transformer you can be electrocuted just as easily. If your fingers create a less resistive path for current to flow then current will flow through you regardless if your cct has a transformer or not. Without isolation, you'd sill have to insert yourself in series with the cct to electrocute yourself, this is no different for a cct with a transformer.
Inserting yourself in series can be made difficult (or rather, even more difficult than it already is lol) by insulating parts of your board with electrical tape or hot glue (saw here, good idea), or using conduit boxes or project boxes to insulate the whole board from yourself.


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 15, 2020)

spek9 said:


> I figured. We're the only two provinces that are getting hammered. I live on the Shuswap in BC now, but up until late last year, I lived way up near Alaska (only moved because I was forced out due to forest fires). That was far outside of BumF**k as well. Sparsely populated, several KM between neighbours. Was starting a self-sufficient lifestyle until the damned fires. It's -45C up that way today (a balmy, t-shirt wearing -16C only where I am now  ).


I almost moved to Stewart, BC in '92 but didn't get the job at the gold mine doing environmental monitoring. I would have loved living up there. Got Hyderized at the Glacier Inn in Hyder, AK when I went up for the final interview Thanksgiving of that year. Got some great fishing in outside Terrace on a small river at a campground the guy at the airport drew me a map of. Got it around here somewhere in case I ever went back.

Let's not hijack this thread now.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 15, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> A variac has 2 coils, both have a set number of turns that doesn't change, but when you rotate the dial, a lever/wiper arm slides along the wires making up the second coil, such that you're essentially changing the number of turns on the second coil, which then produces a different voltage from the input. Most transformer coils are insulated with plastic or some coating (like with magnetic wire, it looks like bare wire but its actually insulated), but with a variac you're actually using bare wire for 1 of the coils so that when your lever/wiper arm slides over the wraps it shorts the current to the lever/arm rather than going through the entire coil.


I figured they worked something like that. Handy units and I use mine mainly to overheat a small crock pot to decarb the pot in the coconut or other oil that I'm making my medicine in. Now for the soldering iron and sometimes to control a fan's speed. I can go to 140% line power and I go to 120% when making my cocobudder. Haven't burned out a crock pot yet and have used it on a full sized one as well.

It's going to be some time before I can design a circuit if ever but I'll plod along once all my stuff is here.

Good info @ChiefRunningPhist but way over my head for the most part. Googled MOSFETs and wikipedia had way more infor than I needed. lol


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 15, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> I figured they worked something like that. Handy units and I use mine mainly to overheat a small crock pot to decarb the pot in the coconut or other oil that I'm making my medicine in. Now for the soldering iron and sometimes to control a fan's speed. I can go to 140% line power and I go to 120% when making my cocobudder. Haven't burned out a crock pot yet and have used it on a full sized one as well.
> 
> It's going to be some time before I can design a circuit if ever but I'll plod along once all my stuff is here.
> 
> Good info @ChiefRunningPhist but way over my head for the most part. Googled MOSFETs and wikipedia had way more infor than I needed. lol


Lol ya, all these components get super detailed. I build a basic schematic and then once I know the functional parts I need, I break it down into the exact functional part needed. That's a sweet way to do your crock pot btw! Never thought of increasing the line V to increase the temp, haha very nice. 

Relays have at least 4 pins, 2 that the load current flows through, and 2 that the signal current flows through. MOSFETs, also have 2 pins for the load current to flow through, but only 1 pin needed for the signal current (some current, but MOSFETs are thought of as switches controlled by voltage, and transistors are thought of as switches controlled by current), and very small amount of current is needed. MOSFETs care about which way they're flipped, ie theres a positive side and negative side of the switch, but that's pretty much the jyst. A small signal to the gate pin turns on the MOSFET, just like a small signal to the relay turns on the relay. I'm not pushing anyone to switch their relays to MOSFETs (though when I read my comments it kinda sounds like that lol), I'm just trying to show an additional way to switch things. Each component has its place.

I've puked up a little bit on this tread lol and it's probably not all going to be widely remembered but just for ppl kinda getting into it. I'm not an expert by any means and just passing some of my info that I thought was valuable or pertained to the topic.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 15, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> I've puked up a little bit on this tread lol and it's probably not all going to be widely remembered but just for ppl kinda getting into it. I'm not an expert by any means and just passing some of my info that I thought was valuable or pertained to the topic.


Don't worry about that. Gives nOObs like me direction about where to hunt down further info pertinent to what I'm trying to do.

Sure wish there were stores like the old Radio Shack we had in Richmond, BC where I grew up. Walls and flip over racks of every kind of part or component that you needed often in singles for a couple pennies each. Now you got to buy whole sets like the 2600 resistors and 500 capacitor sets I got now. Only $10 - $20 each but when you only need a few it's a lot that's going to go to waste eventually.

At least I have lots of older analog type junk around I can scrounge parts off of.


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 15, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Don't worry about that. Gives nOObs like me direction about where to hunt down further info pertinent to what I'm trying to do.
> 
> Sure wish there were stores like the old Radio Shack we had in Richmond, BC where I grew up. Walls and flip over racks of every kind of part or component that you needed often in singles for a couple pennies each. Now you got to buy whole sets like the 2600 resistors and 500 capacitor sets I got now. Only $10 - $20 each but when you only need a few it's a lot that's going to go to waste eventually.
> 
> At least I have lots of older analog type junk around I can scrounge parts off of.


Haha ya I liked going to radio shack too, always had cool RC cars and stuff growing up. And you'll be surprised how fast you go through those resistors. I like the big China TH assortments for breadboarding but Id buy the smd or final components from mouser or digi-key. Then a tacklebox or small plastic storage container can keep them organized (as possible lol).


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## spek9 (Jan 15, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Now you got to buy whole sets like the 2600 resistors and 500 capacitor sets I got now.


Do yourself a favour. Get or make a component tester. When you're dealing with hundreds or thousands of parts, they inevitably get mixed up. A tester like that is a wonderful tool to have in the toolbox. If not for identification, it's invaluable as a validation tool (am I *sure* this is a 1.5k resistor?). Much easier and quicker for testing, as it's all dynamic... no need to set up and change your multi-meter and fudge around. Just plug the part in, and be informed immediately as to what it is, and the specifications.

For my diodes, ceramic capacitors, resistors and other small things, I use hockey card books with the plastic pages with nine pouches per page. Each value of the component goes into a pouch, with a label.

My larger components (capacitors, transistors, leds etc) go into small containers with 9-12 compartments. The larger the items (servos, motors, steppers) go into yet larger flat compartmentalized containers (all stackable).

I have numerous of these types of bins full of a ridiculous amount of electronic trinkets, components, ICs, sensors etc.

It has taken me several years to get to a point where everything is organized in a sane fashion, and where I can literally walk into my lab (my home office backs as my electronics lab) and find exactly what I want without thinking about it.


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## Timezone (Jan 15, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> I've puked up a little bit on this tread lol and it's probably not all going to be widely remembered but just for ppl kinda getting into it. I'm not an expert by any means and just passing some of my info that I thought was valuable or pertained to the topic.


What are you smoking?


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## Timezone (Jan 15, 2020)

Nothing wrong with working on a component level, heck, @OldMedUser probably makes his own resistors, LOL. You guys talk all the component stuff you want, I'm gone for the evening.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 16, 2020)

spek9 said:


> Do yourself a favour. Get or make a component tester. When you're dealing with hundreds or thousands of parts, they inevitably get mixed up. A tester like that is a wonderful tool to have in the toolbox. If not for identification, it's invaluable as a validation tool (am I *sure* this is a 1.5k resistor?). Much easier and quicker for testing, as it's all dynamic... no need to set up and change your multi-meter and fudge around. Just plug the part in, and be informed immediately as to what it is, and the specifications.
> 
> For my diodes, ceramic capacitors, resistors and other small things, I use hockey card books with the plastic pages with nine pouches per page. Each value of the component goes into a pouch, with a label.
> 
> ...


I got myself a pretty good multimeter recently that does all that stuff the tester does except not so easily I bet. I'm probably good for now and if I do get into it deeper then I can one. This one I just got does diodes, capacitors, transistors. reads voltages thru the wall for tracing wires. Non Contact Voltage. Infrared and a temp probe that's good to 750C. I just used it last week to monitor the temp inside a double wrapped oz of I decarbed to make RSO with.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 16, 2020)

Just checked on Amazon and found the same tester. Comes in an acrylic case so they want more money for it. I don't feel like getting PayPal to use Ebay so put it on my Wish list at amazon.






Multifunction Meter DIY kit, kuman Mega 328 Graphic transistor Tester, NPN PNP Diodes Triode Capacitor ESR SCR MOSFET Resistor Inductance LCD Display Checker with case and screwdriver K77, Multi Testers - Amazon Canada


Multifunction Meter DIY kit, kuman Mega 328 Graphic transistor Tester, NPN PNP Diodes Triode Capacitor ESR SCR MOSFET Resistor Inductance LCD Display Checker with case and screwdriver K77 in Multi Testers.



www.amazon.ca


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## Timezone (Jan 16, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Just checked on Amazon and found the same tester. Comes in an acrylic case so they want more money for it. I don't feel like getting PayPal to use Ebay so put it on my Wish list at amazon.


You need one for each hand.  The only thing you put together is the case, easy kit.






I recently bought this digital oscilloscope kit and found the case was the only thing that required assembly, another easy kit.






I got these probes to use with it. One for each hand!

Now if I can figure out how to use it... and start saving up for a good dual channel oscilloscope in the future.


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 16, 2020)

Timezone said:


> You need one for each hand.  The only thing you put together is the case, easy kit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol I got 1 too, can't go wrong at ~$20, you're right a dual channel is the way to go. You can build a multichannel O scope with an arduino and your computer, I use to do it that way. Really doesn't take much at all.








Arduino - Multi-Channel Oscilloscope (Poor Man's Oscilloscope)


Arduino - Multi-Channel Oscilloscope (Poor Man's Oscilloscope): I am presenting software upgrades for the Arduino Oscilloscope (Poor Man's Oscilloscope) that allow to visualize two or three data channels simultaneously. The main features are identical to the original oscilloscope with exception...




www.instructables.com






I might pick one of these up. Only $55 and they look pretty decent from the description. It uses your computer or android phone to output signal, and it's dual channel...








Android&PC Virtual Digital USB Oscilloscope Handheld Dual Channel 20MHz/50MHz | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Android&PC Virtual Digital USB Oscilloscope Handheld Dual Channel 20MHz/50MHz at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


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## Timezone (Jan 16, 2020)

I use VNC Viewer to run my Pi from my pc desktop. Had to do some quick research on how to take a screenshot of the PI and then transfer it from the Pi to the pc. Results:


A command line, a part of a Python program, and the Node-RED Dashboard. There are 19 settings that have to be set in the first column from the left. In the second column are three 24 hour graphs. Note how my heater kicks in and out over 24 hours. Below that is the efco, exhaust fan/CO2, power consumption panel. It shows there is currently nothing running on that outlet box.  Third column has current temp/humi/co2 readings. The fourth and fifth columns display the seven soil moisture sensors' readings, five showing high readings as they're hanging in air, and two disconnected. The last column, Status, shows what's on or off. It looks like a column of switches but they're not, just indicators. There is no manual override for any of the controlled devices at this time. Just those 19 settings.

In line 22 of the Python code, notice that the default setting for co2 is 300 (ppm). This is normally much higher when co2 is in use and is set in the Settings column. It's about average for my zone, 300 ppm.

In the shell below the code, you'll notice a status report being generated. This report along with the messages could be sent to one's phone... Later


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## OldMedUser (Jan 16, 2020)

I think I'll hold off on the scope for now. Is this really needed and for what?

We're supposed to maybe get up to 70cm of snow tonight so I'm running to town today for my goodies, transistors are supposed to be in now, and stock up on water and tobacco! Hope the Arduino is in too!


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## spek9 (Jan 16, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Is this really needed and for what?


Primarily, I use my oscilloscope when I'm writing drivers and communication software for various ICs and devices. It allows me to verify that I'm clocking in data according to a device's datasheet specifications (I2C, SPI etc), that I'm manipulating a select pin surrounding the transferring of data (SPI) properly, monitoring and verifying signal timing, monitoring interrupt edge changes and watching for signal interference.

They're not required when first starting out in electronics. Once you get in deep enough and gain experience, you'll just naturally learn when one is needed (or will be of significant benefit).


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## Timezone (Jan 16, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> I think I'll hold off on the scope for now. Is this really needed and for what?


No, I wasn't saying get one,



OldMedUser said:


> Just checked on Amazon and found the same tester. Comes in an acrylic case so they want more money for it. I don't feel like getting PayPal to use Ebay so put it on my Wish list at amazon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This kit you mention, is assembled except for the case. i.e. no soldering required, as was the oscilloscope I bought. Not real kits where one soldiers components in place. One just has to figure out how to assemble the case. That's why I mentioned it.


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## spek9 (Jan 16, 2020)

Timezone said:


> No, I wasn't saying get one,
> 
> 
> This kit you mention, is assembled except for the case. i.e. no soldering required, as was the oscilloscope I bought. Not real kits where one soldiers components in place. One just has to figure out how to assemble the case. That's why I mentioned it.


The link to the tester I recommended was the actual link I used to order mine. It requires no assembly either, but there's no case. I simply wired up three 12" lengths of wire attached to alligator clips to make connecting them to components a little easier.

Kits that require assembly can get quite overwhelming for people just starting out. Many have very tiny soldering locations that require at least some decent experience.


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## Timezone (Jan 16, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> We're supposed to maybe get up to 70cm of snow tonight so I'm running to town today for my goodies, transistors are supposed to be in now, and stock up on water and tobacco! Hope the Arduino is in too!


Drive safely and hope the Mega and the LM443Z chip you needed, are there.


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## Timezone (Jan 16, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> It's going to be some time before I can design a circuit if ever but I'll plod along once all my stuff is here.


Take a look at circuito, run the ~40 second video, and try it out by running the app. As you add components, you will instantly get a detailed bill of materials, wiring guide and test code for your electronic circuit. I've used this several times and I like everything except the limited number of components.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 16, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Drive safely and hope the Mega and the LM443Z chip you needed, are there.


Got those! Plus the powered USB3 hub with the Getting Started with Sketches book for the Arduino and my car manual came in from Haynes too.

Popped into the electronics store in town and picked up a small 47 x 71mm PCB to solder my components to for the colloidal silver circuit. Once I figure out how to use the breadboard that came with the Arduino kit I'll set it up on there first then test it and solder it up on the PCB. Got a project for the weekend and didn't pick up any vodka. 

Have to hook the Arduino up and see if I can get it ready for playing with too.

Why is it you can never put back the stuff you get in these kits and have a hope of shutting the lid?


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## Timezone (Jan 16, 2020)

Cool, trip uneventful otherwise I hope.



OldMedUser said:


> Once I figure out how to use the breadboard that came with the Arduino kit...


Did you see this from an earlier post:


Timezone said:


> Here's a good article on breadboards, and how to work with them. It's long but complete and worth a look.





OldMedUser said:


> Got a project for the weekend and didn't pick up any vodka.


Glad to hear it. This should keep you busy for awhile, LOL


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## spek9 (Jan 16, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Why is it you can never put back the stuff you get in these kits and have a hope of shutting the lid?


LOL. Wait until you've done it for 10 years 

Here's a picture of one of my IC/sensor unit test hardware platforms. The Raspberry Pi runs the unit tests for the low-and-high level software I've written for each piece of hardware attached, including the Pi itself. There are several ICs (ADC, DAC, digital potentiometer, Arduino Metro, an ATMega328P, several various OLED displays, RF serial transceivers, stepper motor, GPIO expanders etc. The tests run any time I make a single change to any of the various software modules. This ensures that I catch any problems that crop up while updating or adding features to the software.

The shadow boxes I made to store the platform have plexiglass windows, but they're not in place here. There's also a pine cap like the sides that are removed as well.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 16, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Cool, trip uneventful otherwise I hope.
> Did you see this from an earlier post:
> Glad to hear it. This should keep you busy for awhile, LOL


Little icy on the highway and in town it's like a skating rink by

There's a whole weekend just to figure out how to use the thing that puts it all together for you. lol

I'm bookmarking all these links too on my PC. I'll have to copy them and stick them in an email to myself then go to my email on the Pi computer and open/save them there too. Thinking I might buy into that FireFox sync stuff and my phone can have them too without all the fussing around with emailed links.

Lots of reading to do.


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 16, 2020)

I use the oscope anytime I need to see what's going on exactly. If I'm generating a PWM signal I'll want to look at the oscope to see what the waveform is doing, ie how fast (frequency or Hz), or what the duty cycle is, ect. 

A multimeter is great but it only gives you the average values, for example in the states our mains is typically 120VAC, if you stick your multimeter probes in the socket it'll display something around 120VAC. The actual waveform though osscilates from -170 to +170 (approx), your multimeter just gives you the average, some give the RMS value (root mean square). Whatever mains is listed at, say 120VAC (other countries have different mains voltages), it's actually an RMS value. To get the peak or amplitude you'd multiply the RMS value by (2^(0.5)), or square root of 2 (1.414), so the peak of an RMS of 120VAC is actually 169.70V. The difference between the average and RMS is something not to get too worried about, RMS values are what get multiplied to calculate total power. Some components are more sensative than others to fluctuations. Knowing the amplitude or peak voltage of a waveform or seeing current spikes can allow you to pick components properly or add to your cct to mitigate. You can see if your triggering correctly, rising/falling edge. You can determine/see phase angle, they are pretty handy but a multimeter is needed just as much. Personally I use my multi more than I need to view waveforms at this point in my electronics journey lol


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 16, 2020)

spek9 said:


> LOL. Wait until you've done it for 10 years
> 
> Here's a picture of one of my IC/sensor unit test hardware platforms. The Raspberry Pi runs the unit tests for the low-and-high level software I've written for each piece of hardware attached, including the Pi itself. There are several ICs (ADC, DAC, digital potentiometer, Arduino Metro, an ATMega328P, several various OLED displays, RF serial transceivers, stepper motor, GPIO expanders etc. The tests run any time I make a single change to any of the various software modules. This ensures that I catch any problems that crop up while updating or adding features to the software.
> 
> ...


Cool project, whats the laser for? Are those shift registers on the board under your yellow screen?


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## spek9 (Jan 16, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Cool project, whats the laser for? Are those shift registers on the board under your yellow screen?


The laser sits atop of the stepper motor. In that three-sided wood wall surrounding it are three photo-resistors (back from the face of the wood a half inch to keep it dark), one on each side, and one at the top. One of the tests swings the stepper from top, to left, to right, then top again. At each position, I take an analog measurement of the light intensity at the photo-resistor. When the laser is pointed dead-on, it'll be at peak intensity, and that's how I confirm that the stepper motor is at exactly the proper position for the number of steps the software told it to turn.

Under the digital volt/Amp meter (yellow OLED) is a real time clock board (sans battery), a shift register, and an MCP3008 analog to digital converter.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 17, 2020)

OK, I think I have my little circuit all set up properly. Tried testing for continuity and got nothing but when I switched to diode test I got a reading of 1.266v so something's getting thru.

I drew it out by hand triple checking what I laid out on the breadboard and if it looks good the next step is figuring out how to get it soldered onto the PCB which has a different pattern of connections.

Hoping the professors give me a pass for my efforts and any constructive criticism is encouraged! 





Got the Arduino set up with it's drivers and using the Sketch program played around with the timing of that annoying onboard LED then set time on at 1 millisecond and time off at 100,000 so I don't even see the blink when it happens. Programs like that can just be deleted off the onboard chip right? 

On my way. Looks like a bumpy road ahead. lol


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## spek9 (Jan 17, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Programs like that can just be deleted off the onboard chip right?


Yes. Essentially, in very general terms, you delete (by overwriting) the old sketch when you upload a new one.

As far as moving off of the breadboard, take your time. Remember that the rows on the breadboard are connected together, which is unlike the protoboard. I'm sure you have many spare boards, so strip a bunch of wire, and do a bunch of test soldering before you start soldering real components to your prototype. Ensure you get some practice with connecting the through-holes together where components need to be in the same path.

Solder your components to the board in order. For example, get the LM334 in place. Then do a resistor, then connect the LM leg to the resistor by soldering the through holes together (if you don't use the pre-connected holes). Then do a continuity test from the LM leg to the far end of the resistor to ensure solid contact between the components. Do this for every solder joint. It's easier to find now than it is after you've done everything and you're scratching your head as to why it won't work.

Triple check that you're putting your components in place in the proper direction (diode for example). Ensure that you're putting the proper resistor in its required space.

The two long strips in the middle of the board are typically used for your + and - rails. Utilize them to minimize soldering. Utilize the already-linked 2 and 4 hole strips to your advantage. For example, a 3-hole strip can be used to interconnect the middle (from your picture's perspective) leg of the LM to the resistors. A two-hole can be used for the LM leg to power-rail. This minimizes the number of interconnections you must solder by hand by connecting the through holes (which can get awful messy and prone to failure).

Document the whole thing out on paper before you begin. More than once if you have to. The idea is to maximize the benefits of the board, and reduce the number of interconnects you have to solder yourself. Once you've drawn it by hand once, flip that paper over and do it again without looking, then compare the two. Are they the same? Good, you're on your way! Are they different? Do it a third time, then compare them all together and take the good from each one.


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 17, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> OK, I think I have my little circuit all set up properly. Tried testing for continuity and got nothing but when I switched to diode test I got a reading of 1.266v so something's getting thru.
> 
> I drew it out by hand triple checking what I laid out on the breadboard and if it looks good the next step is figuring out how to get it soldered onto the PCB which has a different pattern of connections.
> 
> ...


Good work on getting arduino IDE installed. That's kinda meticulous but you'll not have to do again. Also, if you loaded the "blink" sketch, everytime you give power to the esp, the blink sketch will run. If you want it to stop then you'd load up a blank sketch or a new sketch. The esp runs whatever its been sent as long as it has power. If you want it to do something else then send it something else to loop, ie a blank sketch will loop nothing lol. You may need to have a few default lines, ie void setup () - void loop (), but you may not, I've never loaded a blank sketch, just loaded new sketches over old sketches.

Your LM334 is backwards. You've got the positive rail from the breadboard going into the negative terminal of the LM334. When you look at it with the flat side up, + is on the left, - on the right.


Also I could be wrong, but it looks like your left resistor is a 43.6Ω resistor, but your right most resistor looks like a 436MΩ resistor, which is 10,000,000 greater, as opposed to "10×" greater. I could be wrong though its hard to tell.

That's also a zener diode (see attached for a typical diode used, the attached has a Vf of around 0.6V). The zener can work, but depending on the avalanche voltage, or zener size (1V, 2V, 3V,...ect), your 0.134V constant to determine your set current will change. It can't be over a 5V zener.

What is your zener value and what mA are you looking to produce? 3mA? It can go up to 10mA.

Depending on your Vin, or input voltage, and your Iout, or output current, your LM334 may get warm.

EDIT:
Insert Raspi where I've said "esp" if you're using a raspi...


----------



## Timezone (Jan 17, 2020)

spek9 said:


> Here's a picture of one of my IC/sensor unit test hardware platforms.


Clean layout, @spek9. Are you an electronics teacher or something? 



OldMedUser said:


> I'm bookmarking all these links too on my PC. I'll have to copy them and stick them in an email to myself then go to my email on the Pi computer and open/save them there too. Thinking I might buy into that FireFox sync stuff and my phone can have them too without all the fussing around with emailed links.


Sounds cumbersome, isn't there a better way? How is your Pi connected to your pc? wired or wireless? There is a way to transfer the files back and forth between the two without emailing. I use *RealVNC*.

"Virtual network computing (*VNC*) is a type of remote-control software that makes it possible to control another computer over a network connection. ... It also interprets commands coming from the *viewer* and carries them out on the remote computer. *VNC* is platform independent and is compatible with any operating system."

I log into both of my Pi s in separate windows on my pc, using one keyboard, mouse, and monitor. 3 in 1. I loaded VNC Connect onto the Pi and VNC Viewer on the pc. Makes it easy to transfer files.

Btw, does the Arduino IDE come preinstalled on the Pi4? The Pi 3 had it.



OldMedUser said:


> Lots of reading to do.


You're not alone there pal!



ChiefRunningPhist said:


> I use the oscope anytime I need to see what's going on exactly.


Exactly!



OldMedUser said:


> OK, I think I have my little circuit all set up properly.


I'm gonna check it out in more detail in a minute.
How many of those LM443Z chips did you get? 



OldMedUser said:


> I drew it out by hand triple checking what I laid out on the breadboard and if it looks good the next step is figuring out how to get it soldered onto the PCB which has a different pattern of connections.


What is your power source? Do I see 1-40 Vdc? Did you power it up while on the breadboard?



OldMedUser said:


> Hoping the professors give me a pass for my efforts and any constructive criticism is encouraged!


I pass you just for the effort... did I miss it or did you explain what this circuit is for? Especially in relation to the cultivation of cannabis...



OldMedUser said:


> Got the Arduino set up with it's drivers and using the Sketch program played around with the timing of that annoying onboard LED then set time on at 1 millisecond and time off at 100,000 so I don't even see the blink when it happens. Programs like that can just be deleted off the onboard chip right?


Cool and funny, the "set time on at 1 millisecond and time off at 100,000 so I don't even see the blink" part, at the same time. No worries with deletion, newer overwrites older.



spek9 said:


> As far as moving off of the breadboard, take your time...


Great write up @spek9. Btw, are you keeping a "grow log" @OldMedUser?



ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Good work...


Good catches @ChiefRunningPhist, I think. Let me look again.


----------



## spek9 (Jan 17, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Clean layout, @spek9. Are you an electronics teacher or something?


No. I've just been into electronics for a very long time. I used to be a residential electrician, and I'm just good with all things electrical and DIY.

Most of my projects are for myself and for fun (home security, automation, GPS tracking systems for theft tracking etc), but I've done some large jobs as well. This past year I built a water purification system for a private 30-cottage vacation community. It included mixing and monitoring chlorine on a large scale, managing four 100 gallon tanks, pressure tanks, mixing tanks, pH levels, three under-water submersible pumps (from the lake), an ozone system etc, with remote monitoring and adjustments.

Used an Arduino Metro Mini inside the "pump house" that did all of the work. It was connected via cable to an ESP8266-NodeMCU-12e in a waterproof case on the outside of the building (communication between the two microconrollers was via serial) which relayed via WiFi to an access point on another building to a webapp hosted on the Internet.

I design and build random stuff all the time, and write my own software for the vast majority of all components I utilize.


----------



## Timezone (Jan 17, 2020)

Nice boxes, looked like a display... how often do you change components or software? How are things wired on the back?



spek9 said:


> Most of my projects are for myself and for fun (home security, automation, GPS tracking systems for theft tracking etc), but I've done some large jobs as well. This past year I built a water purification system for a private 30-cottage vacation community. It included mixing and monitoring chlorine on a large scale, managing four 100 gallon tanks, pressure tanks, mixing tanks, pH levels, three under-water submersible pumps (from the lake), an ozone system etc, with remote monitoring and adjustments.
> 
> Used an Arduino Metro Mini inside the "pump house" that did all of the work. It was connected via cable to an ESP8266-NodeMCU-12e in a waterproof case on the outside of the building (communication between the two microconrollers was via serial) which relayed via WiFi to an access point on another building to a webapp hosted on the Internet.


Sounds like someone that might understand some of my programs. Real messes, but what's there, is working 90% of the time. The Pi hangs occasionally due to the Node-RED's display staying on all the time, but that's a Chromium problem I believe and something in my Python code that, under certain circumstances, causes the exhaust fan to come on while the CO2 is on. I really banged them out.

Isn't it amazing what these Arduinos are capable of, the ESP s and the Pi s too? Are you doing anything along the "Arduino controlling my grow theme"?



spek9 said:


> I design and build random stuff all the time, and write my own software for the vast majority of all components I utilize.


Very cool. I do the same things, only not at the component level. No more than I have too. There are sensors, modules, relays ( both coil and ss types) and wifi enabled SOCs and Pis, already built and assembled in neat little 5Vdc or 3.3Vdc packages, like Legos, waiting to be assembled.


----------



## TrippleDip (Jan 17, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Found a place in Winnipeg that sells copper clad PC boards for not much. $10 will get me enough to do a dozen of the little circuits I need for my 4 component circuit. Then I need the circuit transfer sheets to print the circuit on then use an iron to stick it to the copper. Pack of 10 - 8.5 x 11" is $25. One sheet would make me a dozen boards. 500ml bottle of etching fluid is another $15 then shipping another $20 probably. I want to make one little board about 2x3" for fug sake!!


Some things I do when I need a quick board are:

Spraypaint the copper and just freehand draw the separations between the different nets. 
For simple circuits like that deadbug style is fine, I reinforce it with hot glue or silicon if I'm worried. 
You don't need the transfer sheets, you can do it with heat and magazine or photo paper - it will be frustrating trying to find a paper and toner that work, but give it a try you might get lucky with your toner. 
Getting pcbs made is cheap now from places like jlpcb and pcbway. Recently got 40 boards for under 50c a board shipped and arriving in less than two weeks. Do your panelization yourself or they will charge you like $15 for that.


----------



## TrippleDip (Jan 17, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> If anyone has any insight or pointers, please do post, thanks.


You can add an sd card really easily with only a few resistors dividers to change the 5v to 3v and a zener diode to provide a 3.3v supply. 4MB should be fine if you just store the data you need and generate the table on the fly (see below). It also might be easier to just store the data you need rather than the whole chart; in my app a weeks worth of temp and humidity measurements from one sensor with one point for every five minutes takes up less than 4kB.



ChiefRunningPhist said:


> First glances looks like I'll need to have some java experience along with HTML and C/Arduino.


HTML is static content, to display dynamic content you would probably need java, javascript, or maybe php. If you really want to store the whole chart then you could run a php server and use prebuilt libraries to just display the chart. Your code would only really consist of adding data to the file. Alternatively you could just provide the data and let the user display it (through a static web page with javascript - I think javascript would be enough for your purposes).

I have used appinventor in the past to create low/no effort android apps, but a web page is more flexible.



ChiefRunningPhist said:


> I'm not sure exactly what you're building (you use the max595 to take over while the raspi cycles?)


It's just backup. If there's a brownout or some sort of program crash then the fans keep running and the lights stay on/off as required. (edit: see TimeZone's comment about the pi hanging sometimes) Basically I just want to move two clicky timers, three switches, two potentiometers, three thermometers (12 aaa batteries a year!) and one fan controller all to one box. Having it be able to adjust settings for me is icing on the cake.


----------



## TrippleDip (Jan 17, 2020)

spek9 said:


> Primarily, I use my oscilloscope when I'm writing drivers and communication software for various ICs and devices. It allows me to verify that I'm clocking in data according to a device's datasheet specifications (I2C, SPI etc), that I'm manipulating a select pin surrounding the transferring of data (SPI) properly, monitoring and verifying signal timing, monitoring interrupt edge changes and watching for signal interference.
> 
> They're not required when first starting out in electronics. Once you get in deep enough and gain experience, you'll just naturally learn when one is needed (or will be of significant benefit).


Do you think you could give a recommendation on an oscilloscope that I can connect with a computer and use for fast (~2MHz signals)? I actually have one of those $20 one which claims it will read a 1MHz signal but I can't get the trigger to display it. I used to have one of the better handheld units but I don't want to spend $400 on a new one.



spek9 said:


> For my diodes, ceramic capacitors, resistors and other small things, I use hockey card books with the plastic pages with nine pouches per page. Each value of the component goes into a pouch, with a label.


This is fucking genius! I currently have parts in loose baggies (one per part #) organized into bags (one per device type and related devices eg the microcontroller bag has shift registers, dacs and crystals). I might have to upgrade now because it's a nightmare sometimes.


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 17, 2020)

TrippleDip said:


> You can add an sd card really easily with only a few resistors dividers to change the 5v to 3v and a zener diode to provide a 3.3v supply. 4MB should be fine if you just store the data you need and generate the table on the fly (see below). It also might be easier to just store the data you need rather than the whole chart; in my app a weeks worth of temp and humidity measurements from one sensor with one point for every five minutes takes up less than 4kB.
> 
> 
> HTML is static content, to display dynamic content you would probably need java, javascript, or maybe php. If you really want to store the whole chart then you could run a php server and use prebuilt libraries to just display the chart. Your code would only really consist of adding data to the file. Alternatively you could just provide the data and let the user display it (through a static web page with javascript - I think javascript would be enough for your purposes).
> ...


Thanks, and that sounds like an efficient project! I've since realized I can condense much of the data set and have started to design with JS. We'll see how it goes lol

Referencing this video on the procedure.




Ill have to look into how to reference values that are being input on the html page for the JS chart to use, but just getting familiar atm.


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 17, 2020)

spek9 said:


> Yes. Essentially, in very general terms, you delete (by overwriting) the old sketch when you upload a new one.
> 
> As far as moving off of the breadboard, take your time. Remember that the rows on the breadboard are connected together, which is unlike the protoboard. I'm sure you have many spare boards, so strip a bunch of wire, and do a bunch of test soldering before you start soldering real components to your prototype. Ensure you get some practice with connecting the through-holes together where components need to be in the same path.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the great advice man. At this point I'm mainly concerned with it all being lined up so it works. Pretty can come later but I will definitely take you points about how to connect everything neatly into consideration and will either have this page open for reference or print it out.


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 17, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Good work on getting arduino IDE installed. That's kinda meticulous but you'll not have to do again. Also, if you loaded the "blink" sketch, everytime you give power to the esp, the blink sketch will run. If you want it to stop then you'd load up a blank sketch or a new sketch. The esp runs whatever its been sent as long as it has power. If you want it to do something else then send it something else to loop, ie a blank sketch will loop nothing lol. You may need to have a few default lines, ie void setup () - void loop (), but you may not, I've never loaded a blank sketch, just loaded new sketches over old sketches.
> 
> Your LM334 is backwards. You've got the positive rail from the breadboard going into the negative terminal of the LM334. When you look at it with the flat side up, + is on the left, - on the right.


When I first plugged the Arduino in Windoze popped up with the usual 'installing drivers for new device' and shortly after the onboard LED started blinking which they say means the board is working properly so that was easy enough. Went to bed at 4am reading the Getting started with Sketches book instead of Stephen King. lol

The kit has all sorts of sensors, parts, motors etc for me to practice with. Think I'll skip the blinking LED #1 project as I feel I'm beyond that already. 

About that LM334. I've double, tripple and now quadruple checked it and I'm 95% certain it's oriented properly. According to your diagram and the one on the sheet with the schematic I'm set up right. Looking from the bottom, (legs pointing toward me), and the flat side up I have the + leg connected to + rail and it's the one on the left when looking from the left side of my breadboard. Got me nervous now.



ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Also I could be wrong, but it looks like your left resistor is a 43.6Ω resistor, but your right most resistor looks like a 436MΩ resistor, which is 10,000,000 greater, as opposed to "10×" greater. I could be wrong though its hard to tell.


The resistors are all labelled and I checked with the meter and both are within spec as 43 and 430ohm but I'll check them again. I got no problem with checking it out until I'm 100% certain all my ducks are in a row.

I gather from the sheet that the actual #s aren't critical and if all I could get to meet the 10X rule were 40/400 or 50/500 that combination should work too? That 2600 pack of resistors has a shitload of sizes with 20 per strip so 130 different values.



ChiefRunningPhist said:


> That's also a zener diode (see attached for a typical diode used, the attached has a Vf of around 0.6V). The zener can work, but depending on the avalanche voltage, or zener size (1V, 2V, 3V,...ect), your 0.134V constant to determine your set current will change. It can't be over a 5V zener.
> 
> What is your zener value and what mA are you looking to produce? 3mA? It can go up to 10mA.
> 
> Depending on your Vin, or input voltage, and your Iout, or output current, your LM334 may get warm.


I took a few diodes off of old gear and then looked up what type they were. Not that easy to find out something basic like 'small signal' diode but this link says it is one like that and the original sheet says 'any' small signal diode will do so you think this one should work?

Maybe I should order a diode kit but really only need the one for now. I also have these. 2 x 1n4004, 1 - 1n49373143, 1 - 1n4762A305 and 1 - 1n4146 that is listed as a general purpose that I marked as a possible. I got other stuff laying around that I can strip for parts too.






1N914B Datasheet, PDF - Alldatasheet


1N914B Datasheet SIGNAL DIODE - Rectron Semiconductor HIGH SPEED SWITCHING DIODES, SynSemi, Inc.



www.alldatasheet.com





I'm not really sure of what the zener value is or what mA this is supposed to produce. I'm just going by what the original schematic lays out. Is there some way to get a reading from my meter that can help make sure it's a useful diode? I checked it for polarity and the current only goes one way with + on the end with the black band. This is a heck of a lot more involved that running new power lines around the house. That I can handle. lol

I got a brand new zener diode I bought for my old 1970 Bonneville chopper back around '82. Wonder if it would work? 

Please double check that LM334 for me OK. The picture and my drawing show the way it is physically oriented on the board.


----------



## spek9 (Jan 17, 2020)

TrippleDip said:


> Do you think you could give a recommendation on an oscilloscope that I can connect with a computer and use for fast (~2MHz signals)? I actually have one of those $20 one which claims it will read a 1MHz signal but I can't get the trigger to display it. I used to have one of the better handheld units but I don't want to spend $400 on a new one.


I can do my best, but I'll need to know your budget


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 17, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Sounds cumbersome, isn't there a better way? How is your Pi connected to your pc? wired or wireless? There is a way to transfer the files back and forth between the two without emailing. I use *RealVNC*.
> 
> "Virtual network computing (*VNC*) is a type of remote-control software that makes it possible to control another computer over a network connection. ... It also interprets commands coming from the *viewer* and carries them out on the remote computer. *VNC* is platform independent and is compatible with any operating system."
> 
> ...


I haven't got to the part about connecting the Pi to my PC via wifi yet. The PC is hardwired for internet but I have a couple of wifi boards so could install one and try that way but I really don't have a lot of bookmarks that need sharing yet so it's not a huge deal. I'm trying to stay away from being part of the Cloud with all my devices shared all over Hell's Half Acre.

I have that esp8266 coming for the Arduino so can maybe figure it all out once that gets here next week sometime with my work trays and whatever else it was I ordered. Seems odd that there isn't some basic case or tray included in the Arduino kit. I'm using a small styrofoam tray that had liver in it at one time. You'd think they would have a very thin and flexible USB cable for that tiny, very light Arduino so it doesn't get flipped around so easy. My desk is getting buried and I need to take a day or two to get shit organized!

I'm thinking of switching to Win10. It's already on the other hard drive so just have to switch boot drives in the BIOS and reinstall some software to get up to speed on that. Found a good page of instructions to almost eliminate privacy leaks in Win10 and have already done many. This Win7 is flaky and no longer supported but I just switched from XP Pro and it hasn't been supported for years.

I downloaded the IDE I think. I just followed directions at arduino.cc and it all seems to be working OK. Windows installed the drivers when I plugged it in to USB but I'm not certain that they are the best ones. On COM4 and looks OK in Device Manager at least.

I'll look into that RealVNC along with the other 3 dozen things to delve into.


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 17, 2020)

Timezone said:


> I'm gonna check it out in more detail in a minute.
> How many of those LM443Z chips did you get?


10. You wanting to make CS too? I could send you 1 or 2 if that's the plan. I have been thinking of maybe making some up real pro like and flogging them on Kijiji or something but seems more trouble than it would be worth. Probably illegal without CSA approval or some such too.


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 17, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> When I first plugged the Arduino in Windoze popped up with the usual 'installing drivers for new device' and shortly after the onboard LED started blinking which they say means the board is working properly so that was easy enough. Went to bed at 4am reading the Getting started with Sketches book instead of Stephen King. lol
> 
> The kit has all sorts of sensors, parts, motors etc for me to practice with. Think I'll skip the blinking LED #1 project as I feel I'm beyond that already.
> 
> ...


Stephen king lol 

If you're using the 1n914b then you should be pretty close. It just looked like a zener diode. A traditional diode is like a 1 way valve only lets current flow 1 way. A zener diode is a special diode that is designed to only let current flow through at a certain voltage. Its a voltage limiting component. There's all sorts of different voltage Zener's. Your LM334 can't have greater than 5V between its mid-pin and negative pin (found on data sheet) so your not be able to use higher than a 5V zener because angering more the LM334 couldn't handle. They ask for a small signal diode because they are wanting a voltage drop of ~0.6V. The 0.134V figure used to determine the resistor sizes is based on a diode voltage consumption (drop) of 0.6V. So if you had a zener diode that regulated the voltage to greater than 0.6V, then your 0.134V constant wood need to change, and this would lead to different resistor sizes. But if the diode in question is a 1N914B then it has a forward voltage, or Vf, or voltage drop of 0.7V, so it's pretty damn close to the arbitrary diode they picked to come up with the 0.134V constant which your resistor sizes depend on.

About your orientation, its perfect! I was wrong previously.

Diode kits are cheap and handy. Look for 200V and less for small power DC ccts.

2 signal diodes and a rectifier diode is bottom...


Here's what a zener looks like...


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 17, 2020)

@OldMedUser ... this may help with your 1N4148 vs 1N914 diode questions.
"As the most common mass-produced switching diode, the 1N4148 replaced the older *1N914*. "
source...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1N4148_signal_diode


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## OldMedUser (Jan 17, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Stephen king lol
> 
> If you're using the 1n914b then you should be pretty close. It just looked like a zener diode. A traditional diode is like a 1 way valve only lets current flow 1 way. A zener diode is a special diode that is designed to only let current flow through at a certain voltage. Its a voltage limiting component. There's all sorts of different voltage Zener's. Your LM334 can't have greater than 5V between its mid-pin and negative pin (found on data sheet) so your not be able to use higher than a 5V zener because angering more the LM334 couldn't handle. They ask for a small signal diode because they are wanting a voltage drop of ~0.6V. The 0.134V figure used to determine the resistor sizes is based on a diode voltage consumption (drop) of 0.6V. So if you had a zener diode that regulated the voltage to greater than 0.6V, then your 0.134V constant wood need to change, and this would lead to different resistor sizes. But if the diode in question is a 1N914B then it has a forward voltage, or Vf, or voltage drop of 0.7V, so it's pretty damn close to the arbitrary diode they picked to come up with the 0.134V constant which your resistor sizes depend on.
> 
> ...


I'm even more certain that I have it the right way 'round. I think I bookmarked a page showing how to test each leg to make sure the thing was working properly so will check that out. I've always been good at visualizing things in 3D space and the more I look at it the more I'm convinced it's correctly placed. When I look at the breadboard from the side the + wire connects from I'm looking at the flat side of the LM where the + leg is on the left on the row with the + rail connection. Just like in the fine rotated pic you have above.

I just popped the diode out and tested it. Pretty sure now that it was in the wrong way round as the band should be on the COM or downstream side of the diode with the + coming in opposite the band. Had to do it that way to get a reading.

The COM lead is on the end with the black band.



I replaced the diode in the circuit flipped the other way and got a closeup from the + rail side. Nice clear pic.


----------



## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 17, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> I'm even more certain that I have it the right way 'round. I think I bookmarked a page showing how to test each leg to make sure the thing was working properly so will check that out. I've always been good at visualizing things in 3D space and the more I look at it the more I'm convinced it's correctly placed. When I look at the breadboard from the side the + wire connects from I'm looking at the flat side of the LM where the + leg is on the left on the row with the + rail connection. Just like in the fine rotated pic you have above.
> 
> I just popped the diode out and tested it. Pretty sure now that it was in the wrong way round as the band should be on the COM or downstream side of the diode with the + coming in opposite the band. Had to do it that way to get a reading.
> 
> ...


Good job on the diode. I was about to say something lol if it were a zener it would have been correct, haha just what you wanted to read, right(?), more shit on zener diodes!



EDIT:
Ya I was way off about those resistors, looks exactly as you said..


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 17, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Here's what a zener looks like...


Damn. The pics didn't show before and the one I have in now is definitely a zener from the pic. 

I have an old Shaw cable box and need a #10 Torx to get it open but just have the tips for a multi driver and it won't fit down the deep holes where the last 2 screws are but fug it. I'll drill out the plastic holes so I can get them out. Going to toss the case anyway and I have another one too. 

Gotta be a few diodes in that old thing.


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 17, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Good job on the diode. I was about to say something lol if it were a zener it would have been correct, haha just what you wanted to read, right(?), more shit on zener diodes!
> 
> If your voltage source is less than 30V try it both ways. See which way works as desired.
> View attachment 4458761


Now to me the way you have the thing flipped is backasswards to what it is according to the diagram on the original schematic or the original pics you posted. If I bent that LM back from the way it's positioned in the pic so the flat side is up and the legs pointed at me the + is the left leg in row 10. Your little pic on top of mine is turned around with the flat side down so the + and - are correct but the shape is flipped 180°.

Certainly not trying to argue but it sure seems to me that I'm right about this. Anybody else see what I'm seeing? 



I'll find that bookmark or hunt down that procedure to test these things.

Going to go drill that case out and have a peek inside. Can't read the damn numbers on those diodes until I get them out but I'll skip any that look like zeners.


----------



## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 17, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Damn. The pics didn't show before and the one I have in now is definitely a zener from the pic.
> 
> I have an old Shaw cable box and need a #10 Torx to get it open but just have the tips for a multi driver and it won't fit down the deep holes where the last 2 screws are but fug it. I'll drill out the plastic holes so I can get them out. Going to toss the case anyway and I have another one too.
> 
> Gotta be a few diodes in that old thing.


Lol nice, but as long as you're reading close to 0.6V on the multi then the diode should work. Also, the signal diodes you posted look very similar to a red zener diode. If it had the designation of 1N914B then it's a signal diode.


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 17, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> View attachment 4458761


It was my understanding that if the pins are drawn in a trans pic its view is from the bottom?
Where if you flip yours it matches perfectly.


----------



## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 17, 2020)

We'll maybe I am wrong. I've always viewed from top down, but I'm not an expert.


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 17, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> We'll maybe I am wrong. I've always viewed from top down, but I'm not an expert.


I'm far from one myself...lol
Trying to recall from electronics class @ 30+ years ago...my brain hurts now...lol


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 17, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> @OldMedUser


Well I was wrong, apologies, lol, smh... You have had it correct all along! 

Thanks @Mak´er Grow


----------



## Mak'er Grow (Jan 17, 2020)

@OldMedUser I was wondering what is this circuit going to do also?
Why not just use the correct size adapter to the electrodes...maybe add a fuse too if its just a safety thing.
I've read a few posts on making CS and as long as the amperage isn't really high pretty much any voltage from 9 to 28 seems to work.
One guy used 3 x 9 volt batteries...if memory serves me correct...lol


----------



## Mak'er Grow (Jan 17, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Well I was wrong, apologies, lol, smh... You have had it correct all along!
> View attachment 4458796
> Thanks @Mak´er Grow


Thats awesome to know for sure though...great work finding out the answer !!
I'm not sure how much sleep I would have gotten tonight not knowing the correct answer...lol


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 17, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Good job on the diode. I was about to say something lol if it were a zener it would have been correct, haha just what you wanted to read, right(?), more shit on zener diodes!


Total wash on that Shaw box. Probably lots of diodes in there but all those tiny surface mount ones so no use to me.

The descriptions of the 1N914B on that web page lead me to believe that I can use it.

SMALL SIGNAL SWITCHING DIODE 
500mW 100 Volt Silicon Epitaxial Diode 
75mA Axial Leaded High Speed Switching Diodes 
Small Signal Diode (lots of those)

Would be nice to know what kind of readings to expect once it's all hooked up with power supplied so I can confirm it's working correctly. Guess I'll have to make some CS and see if it passes the laser pointer test and the ppm rises over time once I actually solder this all up and give it the smoke test.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 17, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Well I was wrong, apologies, lol, smh... You have had it correct all along!


OK. Good to know. Basically once I know that diode will work I can start planning to move it over to the PCB and have a go at soldering it up. I think the glue gun will come in handy for that endeavor. 

Just took an old portable phone base apart and found a few diodes in there. Fire up the soldering iron and get them out so I can read the #s. Black ones with a grey band. Fingers crossed.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 17, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> @OldMedUser I was wondering what is this circuit going to do also?
> Why not just use the correct size adapter to the electrodes...maybe add a fuse too if its just a safety thing.
> I've read a few posts on making CS and as long as the amperage isn't really high pretty much any voltage from 9 to 28 seems to work.
> One guy used 3 x 9 volt batteries...if memory serves me correct...lol


It's to regulate the power to the silver anode so that only nano sized silver ions are produced. I'm using a 29v wall wart for a PS. Can't find it atm but a similar one I have at hand is 24v, 417mA. They are both power supplies for the wifi antenna like the one on my roof.

You can use the 9v batteries to get 27v but those suckers are expensive so a PS is better.


----------



## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 17, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Total wash on that Shaw box. Probably lots of diodes in there but all those tiny surface mount ones so no use to me.
> 
> The descriptions of the 1N914B on that web page lead me to believe that I can use it.
> 
> ...


Idk what you're building comepletely but if your cct demonstrates the same characteristics as the example from the datasheet, you should create a constant current source of about 3mA regardless of temp change (to a degree, lol pun intended!) with the cct posted.

View attachment 4458847

Most relevant equation is:

(Iset) = (0.134V)/(R1)

Iset is the current you desire in amps, and R1 is your small resistor size. You have 43Ω for your small R, or R1. 

0.134V/43Ω
=
0.00311A; 3.11 mA

If you wanted 1mA, you'd adjust your R1 to be ~134Ω, and your R2 would then be 1,340Ω.

0.134V/0.001A
=
134Ω

All that is assuming that you have a voltage of 67mV across R1, and a diode Vf of 0.6V. If your voltage drop across R1 is different than 0.067V, then your 0.134V constant will change, which changes the cct characteristics.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 17, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Idk what you're building comepletely but if your cct demonstrates the same characteristics as the example from the datasheet, you should create a constant current source of about 3mA regardless of temp change (to a degree, lol pun intended!) with the cct posted.
> View attachment 4458846
> View attachment 4458847
> 
> ...


I still don't know for sure what output I'm supposed to get and this is getting a lot more complicated fast.

I really just want to make and if I'm getting decent CS out of it consider it a done deal. The CS I'm making now seems to work fine for fighting infections etc but this is supposed to of better quality due to the smaller particle size.

For my setup I use a 1L flat-bottom boiling ball on a magnetic stirrer with a .9999 silver coin split in half hanging off the ends of 6" .9999 silver wire. Couple of plastic caps as spacers to keep the coins separated an inch apart. Seems to work pretty good. I fill it just below where the wires and coins join and crush the joint so there's good contact.



A look at the business end of it.


----------



## Mak'er Grow (Jan 17, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> I really just want to make and if I'm getting decent CS out of it consider it a done deal. The CS I'm making now seems to work fine for fighting infections etc but this is supposed to of better quality due to the smaller particle size.


This may help some.
From what I've read "the optimum particle size seems to be within the 10 to 20 nanometer diameter range. Below this and the silver becomes toxic to healthy human cells2, and above this becomes less effective. "
Theres info about swapping the leads and amount of current to time running for particle sizes too.
Is this you ???


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 17, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> It was my understanding that if the pins are drawn in a trans pic its view is from the bottom?
> Where if you flip yours it matches perfectly.


What would you say the temp coefficient of this is?

50mV/40°C
=
1.25mV/°C

That look right? It's the 1N914B.

If that's correct then @OldMedUser your 10× multiplier looks closer to 5× multiplier. Or you'd multiply your small R (R1) by only 5 (instead of 10) to determine what your big R (R2) would be.


This is my guess as to how it will work if your diode measured 0.625V.

@43Ω for R1, I'm guessing close to 4.7mA. Haha very curious how close I get.


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 17, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> What would you say the temp coefficient of this is?
> View attachment 4458865
> 50mV/40°C
> =
> ...


I've been raking my brain for the other diode number I used to know...1N457...lol
Ya that looks right to me, but is he making a multiplier...I thought it was more of a current limiter he was making...doh my bad.
See I should be going back to school...its all looking greek to me again...lol
Does it not work by the ratio of the resistor values so if the resistor values are x 10 of each other then it should be 10 times multiplier?


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 17, 2020)

Not sure how to explain this, but I think I see the 'issue'...theres a 5R1 under the 67.7 mV + 0.625V...should that be 10R1 since the resistors being used are times 10 of each other?
I think his notes said ~3mA, so even 4.7mA isn't far off.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 17, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> This may help some.
> From what I've read "the optimum particle size seems to be within the 10 to 20 nanometer diameter range. Below this and the silver becomes toxic to healthy human cells2, and above this becomes less effective. "
> Theres info about swapping the leads and amount of current to time running for particle sizes too.
> Is this you ???


The Smurf man drank lots of his home made CS that he used salt in to speed up the process creating silver nitrate that turns black with exposure to light and looks blue when it reacts in human skin. It's a permanent condition too and effects every organ in the body but not fatal.

At least you wouldn't have to decide on a costume every Halloween.  Papa Smurf every year! lol

Proper CS even in large quantities won't turn you blue. I think I'm going to try consuming a modest amount every day and see how or if it affects me.


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 17, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> Not sure how to explain this, but I think I see the 'issue'...theres a 5R1 under the 67.7 mV + 0.625V...should that be 10R1 since the resistors being used are times 10 of each other?
> I think his notes said ~3mA, so even 4.7mA isn't far off.


Voltage vs Temp of 1N914B...

(500mV - 450mV) = 50mV
(25°C) - (65°C) = -40°C

50mV ÷ -40°C
=
-1.25mV/°C


From datasheet...


Customized...


From datasheet...


Customized...


That's what I'm guessing (?), but a current measurement will tell you for sure. Its probably way off. If you use -40°C and 25°C instead of 65°C & 25°C, your tempco climbs up to ~-2.3mV/°C, so maybe 0.134V is closer to the correct value than 0.205V, lol idk


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## OldMedUser (Jan 18, 2020)

I decided to put some power to my circuit and see what kind of power readings I got if any. I dug up an old Radio Shack multi voltage wall wart. Supposed to be 3 - 12v but puts out 5 - 17.5v and is rated at 800mA. It has a removable tip so you can change polarity and at one time probably had an assortment of tips but I found it at a thrift store years ago sans extra tips.

Not sure how meaningful this data is but at least I know power is getting through so that part works. The No Load readings are straight off the end of the plug.


Volts mANo Load mA5.21.01.2 7.2 1.7 2.09.22.5 2.711.23.33.513.34.14.417.85.86.0



Anybody know what type of diode these clear ones are? No numbers on them and have what looks like a fine fuse wire inside.



PS: Those diodes in the phone base turned out to be 1n4003s so I got 5 of those but they are no use atm.

Bed time!


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## spek9 (Jan 18, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Nice boxes, looked like a display... how often do you change components or software? How are things wired on the back?


The display look was intentional. I needed it to keep dust out, be visible, and easily modifiable. It sits at the back of one of my work benches.

I don't change out the components. Once on there, they are there for good (that said, I do use sockets for absolutely everything, in case a component wears out someday, or I fry something by accident, they are easily replaced). Each newly added device becomes part of the entire test regimen.

When I have time, say every few months, I'll add new components I've written software for. I've got a list of devices I still need to add.

I only change the software for a few reasons; for each of the various software modules, if I add a new feature, or someone else who uses the software adds a new feature and I approve it, or they request a new feature and I decide it's worth adding in. If I find a bug, or one is reported to me by someone else, I update the software to fix the bug, and write tests to ensure it's fixed and I don't regress it later. Or, I decide to change the non-public-facing internals of the software for my own reasons (for example, I find an efficiency issue I want to correct).

Any change (commit) to any of the software modules triggers the test platform to run all tests against all hardware.

Here's a pic of the back of the boxes. It's very simple. All of the silver screws act as push-offs for the boards on the front. The circuit boards sit about 2.75" from the box.


----------



## Timezone (Jan 18, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> I haven't got to the part about connecting the Pi to my PC via wifi yet.


Though I'm connected wirelessly, it works wired also. I only suggest as it puts everything on one monitor, keyboard and mouse.



OldMedUser said:


> You wanting to make CS too?


Not yet but If I live long enough, and if my zone's rules catch up...



OldMedUser said:


> Anybody else see what I'm seeing?


Very sorry for not weighing in sooner, I've been distracted for a couple of days. Hope it's resolved now, I'm still catching up reading this. I thought from @OldMedUser's diagram, that he had the LM334 oriented correctly.

You guys are covering a lot of ground... I'm not doing the math though.



OldMedUser said:


> I think I'm going to try consuming a modest amount every day and see how or if it affects me.


Can we watch?



OldMedUser said:


> ...looks like a fine fuse wire inside.


If you look close, you can see that the "fine fuse wire" (anode) is connected to a little piece of silicon that sits on a base (cathode). Take a close look at a LED and you'll see the same "cat's whisker" attached to silicon that makes up the diode.



spek9 said:


> Here's a pic of the back of the boxes.


I meant the back of the boards. From the front, it reminded me of my wire wrap days. I suppose you soldered everything together... still a nice project, thanks.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 18, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Though I'm connected wirelessly, it works wired also. I only suggest as it puts everything on one monitor, keyboard and mouse.


That is a goal worth achieving. I've been trying to use the tiny CD that came with the Arduino as it has the instructions for the various things that came with the kit but my computer hangs and Explorer crashes. Thought the CD was no good but tried a regular disk in there and it won't read that either. The other drive which is a Blu-Ray burner just opens then immediately closes so I can't even get a disk in. This Win7 has gone right flaky after the last updates. Got a notice on the 14th that it's no longer supported which I knew was happening. Time to boot Win10 or go full Raspbian! lol

Any thoughts on my testing the circuit under power? I might be able to hook it up and run a batch of CS with it all still on the breadboard then if that works go ahead and solder it up on the PCB.


----------



## Timezone (Jan 18, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Any thoughts on my testing the circuit under power? I might be able to hook it up and run a batch of CS with it all still on the breadboard then if that works go ahead and solder it up on the PCB.


Go ahead, it's not like you're working with high voltages and a lot of complicated components. I just about always power up my projects though at 5Vdc...


----------



## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 18, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> I decided to put some power to my circuit and see what kind of power readings I got if any. I dug up an old Radio Shack multi voltage wall wart. Supposed to be 3 - 12v but puts out 5 - 17.5v and is rated at 800mA. It has a removable tip so you can change polarity and at one time probably had an assortment of tips but I found it at a thrift store years ago sans extra tips.
> 
> Not sure how meaningful this data is but at least I know power is getting through so that part works. The No Load readings are straight off the end of the plug.
> 
> ...


Idk, they look like little zeners. I think the tall 1 on the left standing vertical might be a fuse? 

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to hold a constant current regardless the input voltage applied (up to 40V I think I saw on data sheet) and regardless the size of the load (within reason).

Couple things to try:
1. Remove diode and large resistor. With 43Ω you should see ~1.5 mA (0.064 ÷ 43Ω = 0.00148A, 64mV comes from data sheet; room temp is assumed ~76°F, or 298°K; 298°K × 217μV/°K = 0.06466V). Try different voltages, see if the different voltage sources from your AC/DC adapter produce different mA measurements. I'm pretty sure it should stay relatively constant.

2. Replace red/clear diode with the 1n4003. Try cct again with different voltages and measure to see if mA changes. The equation for the R values and expected set current will change, but whatever the actual output mA ends up being, it shouldn't change with different voltage input applied, I think that's what I'm comprehending. If the mA output is constant throughout the gambit of different voltages applied, then your original diode is not functioning as intended. If your mA output changes with different voltages applied, well then, idk lol, perhaps you'd need a voltage regulator on the input of your LM334, but that just seems unideal..

The whole purpose of the second larger resistor + diode is to reduce the constant current fluctuation as the temperature changes. The constant current source can be made with only 1 set resistor, and should hold constant as long as the chip doesn't heat up or the ambient change temp much. 

The second large resistor can be changed out for bigger or smaller depending on the change in constant current with temperature rise. So if you heated the chip up and your constant current increased then you'd +/- the size of the big resistor (R2) to offset. A zero temperature coefficient means that theres 0 change in characteristics with temperature fluctuation. A positive tempco means as you increase in temp so does your mA or mV, and a negative tempo means as you increase in temp your mA or mV drop, in this cct we're only worried about mA. You'd add resistance, or use a bigger R2 if your mA were increasing with temp rise, and you'd reduce resistance or make your big resistor (R2) smaller if mA were decreasing with temp rise. Once you dial in your R2 size needed for 0 tempco (using a 1kΩ POT for R2 could be an easy way of determining R2 value, you'd measure mA at ambient, then use a hairblowdryer or something and increase temp, then rotate the POT till you measured the same mA as with ambient), then you could calculate your R2:R1 ratio, and from that you should be able to derive your Iset equation..

Iset 
= 
*{*[(0.067V)×(R2:R1 ratio)] + (Vf of diode) + (0.067V)*} * / * [*R1 × (R2:R1 ratio)*]*

All of this can be done without the math, and by trial and error. If you know your desired mA or desired constant current needed for your CS factory then you'd just build your cct with the diode you have (1n4003), then use a 100Ω pot for R1, and a 1kΩ POT for R2, then you'd set up your multimeter to measure output current, and then adjust POT R1 till your output matched the desired current you'd like. Then heat up the chip and adjust POT R2 to match the same mA output that was observed with no heat applied. At least that's my comprehension. I don't have any lm334's or I'd be breadboarding and trying to determine for myself.


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 18, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Go ahead, it's not like you're working with high voltages and a lot of complicated components. I just about always power up my projects though at 5Vdc...


I started at the 5v and went through them all to 17.5. The PS I use to make the CS is 29.5v @ 460 mA.


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 18, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> All of this can be done without the math, and by trial and error.


That's the ticket!

Think I'll hook it up and run a batch of CS and see how it goes. I still have the 1N914B in the circuit and will go with that for now as it's the only one I could find that says it's a silicon small signal diode and the sheet says any of that type will do.

Need to figure out why my DVD/BluRay burners aren't working so I can read the little CD that came with my Arduino and get the libraries for the various projects.

May just switch over to Win10 and reinstall some software.

Thanks for all the help with this but the math part will have to wait. Just getting into programming the Arduino for the sensors etc I have now will be enough for my head I think. Lots of stuff in that kit to figure out. Wishing I'd ordered some more breadboards with this last order now. Cheap enough.


----------



## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 18, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> That's the ticket!
> 
> Think I'll hook it up and run a batch of CS and see how it goes. I still have the 1N914B in the circuit and will go with that for now as it's the only one I could find that says it's a silicon small signal diode and the sheet says any of that type will do.
> 
> ...


Haha ya, whenever I come to a problem I always try to figure it out because if I don't it will bug me forever lol. 90% of my commentary is less than neccessary but just trying to give insight to where my train of thought is. Its peculiar that input V is not used in any of the equations for output current in the data sheet, but experimentally you observe mA output to be dependent on Vin. Lol idk anymore.. I wasn't sure about that little red/clear diode and that's why I suggested the 1n4003, but after your confidence of it being a 1N914B and seeing your voltage : mA chart, maybe the lm334 provides a constant current source based on R values, but also based on input V? Well whatever the relationship is, good luck, I'm going to dig a little more because I'm not satisfied with my understanding, if I figure it out I'll post here.


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## spek9 (Jan 18, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Need to figure out why my DVD/BluRay burners aren't working so I can read the little CD that came with my Arduino and get the libraries for the various projects.


Did you/can you link to the kit you bought? It's likely we can source an online version of the CD contents for you, or provide you with alternates.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 18, 2020)

spek9 said:


> Did you/can you link to the kit you bought? It's likely we can source an online version of the CD contents for you, or provide you with alternates.


I was just checking my downloads folder and seem to have downloaded the stuff that is listed on the front of the CD so should be OK. I can always put it in the wife's laptop and copy it over to a thumb drive too.

What's bugging me more is why the hell aren't my drives working properly. Device mamnager says they are OK so I think I'll just delete them from there and do a reboot to see if they fix themselves. Not sure if it was the last Win7 updates I did the night before I noticed they weren't working but I lost my desktop background pic and it's not letting me put it back up.


----------



## Timezone (Jan 18, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> I was just checking my downloads folder and seem to have downloaded the stuff that is listed on the front of the CD so should be OK. I can always put it in the wife's laptop and copy it over to a thumb drive too.


That works.

If you make a batch of CS, is there a way of testing it for the properties you wish to obtain? What properties do you wish to obtain? stronger solution? CS seems to be readily available here, can you not get it there?

That computer has been going for some time now...


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 18, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> I was just checking my downloads folder and seem to have downloaded the stuff that is listed on the front of the CD so should be OK. I can always put it in the wife's laptop and copy it over to a thumb drive too.
> 
> What's bugging me more is why the hell aren't my drives working properly. Device mamnager says they are OK so I think I'll just delete them from there and do a reboot to see if they fix themselves. Not sure if it was the last Win7 updates I did the night before I noticed they weren't working but I lost my desktop background pic and it's not letting me put it back up.
> 
> View attachment 4459429


Upgrading to win10 is a bit of a necessary evil anymore. I don't like it, but I think you'll find more compatibility with newer software. You should be able to download any necessary drivers and Arduino related files from online, and there's tons of little beginner projects from hackaday or instructables ect.

I found a vid... He has implented POTs where Rs would normally be...





If you *FF to 28:05*, you can see how temperature change effects the cct - with and without the big R2 + diode tempco offset.

Far Left multimeter = LM334 current in mA
Far Right multimeter = Voltage input

If you* FF to 30:52*, you can see how input voltage doesn't effect the current source of the LM344 (as I was originally anticipating). There's still 22μA running through the LM344 (because R1 was set at ~3kΩ, and 0.0677V/3000Ω = 0.00002256A; 22.56μA) regardless the V being input.

I'm assuming the LED current fluctuation noticed with temp rise (you'll see the LM334 doesn't really fluctuate while tempco circuitry is plugged in) is because the transistor gain has a positive tempco, so as temp rises, the transistor gain increases a bit. He stated an hFE of 334×, but if you notice the current running through the LED is actually 8.4mA as opposed to 7.5mA. The transistor gain, or the hFE, or β, or the amount that the small signal current is amplified by, seems to be a bit different than 334.

0.000022A × 334 = 0.007348A; 7.348mA

0.0084A ÷ 0.000022 = 381.81

It looks like his transistor gain, or hFE, is actually closer to 382. This calculated 382 gain matches up pretty spot on with his ambient temp readings but looks to increase as the temp rises.

I'm not sure why the LED mA drops as Vin drops but while the base current is maintained at 22μA. ??? Maybe transistor hFE is also slightly dependent on V?

Idk how much voltage is burnt over the transistor or the LM334, but it seems (at least at this point in time lol) that the Vin should not mess with the current out. The transistor could be keeping the LM334 voltage constant though, so I'm not completely convinced that the current output is unchanged by Vin, just more so convinced. Also, I looked up the diode he is using and it seems to give a 1.5mV/°C tempco using the method which I tried to implement with the 1N914B (which gave me a 1.25mV/°C). I wish he'd measure his R2 POT resistance because I'd really like to see what its set at. In his explanation before the breadboarding he referenced a 10× constant used to multiply R1 by to arrive at an R2 value/size. But then in his breadboarding he reverts to POTs, which makes me wonder if his static R values derived from a 10× multiplier was giving less than stable results, thus why he switched to POTs. If we knew the the POT resistance values, we could calculate R2:R1 ratio and we could see how far off or how close the 10× multiplier was.


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 18, 2020)

Timezone said:


> That works.
> 
> If you make a batch of CS, is there a way of testing it for the properties you wish to obtain? What properties do you wish to obtain? stronger solution? CS seems to be readily available here, can you not get it there?
> 
> That computer has been going for some time now...


I test the ppm before I start. Should be zero as I'm using distilled, de-ionized water I buy at the drug store in 4L jugs for about $4. Then I add an oz of a previous batch to help kick off conductivity. Really slow to get going with water that pure. After a while if you shine a laser pointer thru it you can see the beam in the water where you won't at first. The laser pointer on my infrared thermometer will do it. After a while I stop to clean the coins off as they build up a fluff on them, Mainly on the Anode I believe. That fluff should be a lot less with this circuit in there.

When I stop to clean I check the ppm and generally stop when it reads 6 or 7. You don't get a true reading but can figure 2 - 2.5X the reading is close to the real ppm and is really strong enough for most uses. When it starts going all grey then you're just eating up the silver and putting actual atoms in clumps in there instead of ionic silver.

When I figure it's done I run it through an unbleached coffee filter and fill up a 4L jug or now have some brown glass bottles I can use but need 2 for the STS sol'ns. Got to get more. Jug is OK if kept in the dark.

This PC is pissing me off. Most of the time when I put it to sleep it hangs and I have to hold down the power button to force it off. Reboots OK but then all my progs like FireFox are off. At least FF keeps the tabs I had open when it was forced off.

I have Win10 on the drive that came with this PC and used it a bit at first but didn't like the lack of privacy. Found a good page of how to cut off almost all of the things used to spy on you so will go with that and my ProtonVPN to hide my goings on which are mainly what I do on pot forums. Win7 helped so I could access my phone's files and move stuff back and forth but is so lacking in current tech that I almost don't have any other choice than Linux.

I'm pretty sure my little circuit is going to work fine but I'll take a look at that video about it. @ChiefRunningPhist

Having a bit of a low day again today. Haven't been eating much lately. Off my feed I guess.


----------



## spek9 (Jan 18, 2020)

Timezone said:


> If you make a batch of CS, is there a way of testing it for the properties you wish to obtain? What properties do you wish to obtain? stronger solution? CS seems to be readily available here, can you not get it there?


I make my CS so it's 40 PPM. This is very high strength. My wife and I use it topically, for ear aches, orally in small doses when ill etc.

Myself though, primarily, I use it to force female plants to produce pollen, which I then use to pollinate other plants to make feminized seeds.

I can make four quarts in the matter of five hours of 40ppm Colloidal Silver for less than a couple of dollars. That's pennies per gallon compared to buying it at that PPM.

I clean off my silver and softly stir the solution every 25 minutes. This reduces blackening. I store it in amber 50-600mL eye dropper bottles (I bought a whole bunch of random sizes from Amazon a few years ago).

As @OldMedUser does, I start with a base of previous product to get the conductivity going, and use only distilled water (0 PPM). Everything is sterilized thoroughly. I do 2-4 one-quart jars at a time, in my large crock pot that acts as the outside boiler of a double boiler system. This is how I maintain a constant temperature throughout the proces.

The jars that aren't in use, are stored down in the cold root cellar in my basement along with my seed and pollen store.


----------



## spek9 (Jan 18, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> I almost don't have any other choice than Linux.


I use Linux nearly exclusively (Linux Mint for my non-server systems). I have a couple of Windows virtual machines for developing a couple of my specific Windows-only open source software programs. The only other time I use Windows is when I'm deploying or testing on client servers and systems.


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 18, 2020)

spek9 said:


> I make my CS so it's 40 PPM. This is very high strength.


That's strange because once I get mine reading 6 or 7 and keep running after that it starts going grey. I bought a new ppm pen that does single digits until it goes over 1000ppm and diluted 1000ppm calibration fluid to 20ppm and use that to calibrate the pen for better accuracy when testin sub 20ppm sol'ns.

PPM pens do not accurately read CS ppm.

Alfred Searle used a Tyndall meter to measure how many particles of silver were present in a solution. It is a device that uses light to test for hue and reflection, which are used to determine the particle count and their size. These devices use light wavelengths as the means of measurement. Most modern sellers of silver products instead purchase an electronic device that measures the conductivity of the finished product. The conductivity of different solutions will always vary greatly, so these meters cannot possibly do what they are advertised to do. For example, if salt were added to the water, then it would have a different effect on the conductivity than if copper were added, because of their differing electrical properties. Yet the sellers of these meters claim that they are able to get accurate results measuring particle counts regardless of a solution's ingredients. If salt or another electrolyte exists in the water, the conductivity of the water will increase dramatically, even whilst the number of particles will stay roughly the same. Particle size and the temperature of the solution also effect the conductivity, which the meter has no way of determining. Even a gust of wind will give a different reading, due to the electrostatic effect upon the surface of the solution. In the case of colloidal metals, electrically gauging the concentration is even more futile than it is for other types of solutions, because the metallic liquid is an electrolytic capacitor with a constantly changing capacitance. Electricity cannot be used to measure the amount of metal in a solution when the surface area of the metal cannot be verified, and when the capacitance of the solution is ever-changing. It is like trying to get a consistent light measurement from a fireworks display. The capacitive solution itself will produce its own tiny currents, and it will block currents from the meter, which makes electronic testing an exercise in absurdity. The only way to accurately measure concentration in a fluid with metallic colloids is by using light. Thus, the parts per million rating given by most colloidal and ionic silver sellers is meaningless. Since colloidal silver changes the color of the water, clear colloidal solutions are frequently just expensive water, regardless of any measurement that sellers purportedly get. In the case of ionic silvers, it is impossible to measure the particle count, since the particles are too small to reflect light.

TDS Meter, the _de facto_ manufacturer of the new testing equipment, even acknowledges the uselessness of its own meters on its website, in an amusing attempt at damage control:



> _" ...temperature changes by a tenth of a degree may increase or decrease the conductivity. Additionally, the temperature coefficient (what the reading is multiplied by to adjust for temperature differences) changes slightly depending upon the range of ppm... Even a tiny air bubble that has adhered to one of the probes could potentially affect the conductivity, and thus the reading... Electrical charges off fingers, static eletricity off clothes, etc. on the meter and lingering electrical charges in the water will affect the conductivity of the water... Plastic cups retain lingering electrical charges more than glass. If the meter touches the side of the glass or plastic, it could pick up a slight charge. If the plastic is retaining a charge, it could also affect the water... The amount of water in the sample may affect the conductivity. Different volumes of the same water may have different levels of conductivity. Displacement may affect the conductivity as well... The depth and position of the probe in the water sample may also affect the conductivity. For example, if a meter is dipped into the water, removed and then dipped into the water again, but in a different spot, the reading may change..."_


The expensive methods of testing colloidal solutions that are utilized by modern laboratories are likewise grossly flawed. Flame atomic absorption spectroscopy is one of the leading laboratory methods for analyzing colloidal solutions. It uses extreme temperatures to destroy a colloidal solution, and then observers rate the colors of the flames, in an attempt to visually gauge the metal concentration. Fire is impossible to control with the precision that is needed for a valid analysis; and of course, the test results are in the eyes of the beholder. These machines cost about $50,000 (U.S.), so it is unlikely that anyone outside of the chemical industry actually owns one. There are similar devices which utilize a beam of light that is projected through the flames during the analysis. These devices have the same inaccuracy issues, and they are even more expensive.









Making and Using Genuine Colloidal Silver


This is a comprehensive guide about medicinal colloidal silver and how to safely create it or purchase it.




healthwyze.org


----------



## spek9 (Jan 18, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> That's strange because once I get mine reading 6 or 7 and keep running after that it starts going grey. I bought a new ppm pen that does single digits until it goes over 1000ppm and diluted 1000ppm calibration fluid to 20ppm and use that to calibrate the pen for better accuracy when testin sub 20ppm sol'ns.
> 
> PPM pens do not accurately read CS ppm.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that info. I honestly didn't know a TDS meter didn't show the actual PPM of the silver. Never really researched that angle of it.

Either way, it's always worked for me without any problems, but I am now curious as to the real potency of what I make, so I'll have to go down that rabbit hole. Thankfully, I have made some good friends in testing labs, thanks to my work on the water purification system I built this past summer, so I think I'll send an email and see if this is something they are able to test for me.


----------



## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 18, 2020)

VPNs are maybe not as secure as they advertise. Your traffic can still be sold by the VPN company ect. I use Tor Browser if I'm looking for privacy. It's free.

@OldMedUser, no sweat, look at it or don't ever worry about it again lol 

This is a bit like me sometimes...


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 18, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> VPNs are maybe not as secure as they advertise. Your traffic can still be sold by the VPN company ect. I use Tor Browser if I'm looking for privacy. It's free.


I've used TOR for years but it's no more secure than a good VPN. ProtonMail/VPN is based in Switzerland and one of the highest rated for security and privacy. All email is encrypted and I actually got it installed in Raspbian for the Pi but it's command based in that. I asked and they say they are working on a Linux GUI for it. I bought a 2 year plan and can select what country I want to look like I'm from from 40+ and some servers run thru TOR and I can use secure core servers as well.

I don't like letting my ISP know where I'm going and the places I go not knowing where I'm from. I've been fighting back against invasions to my privacy since I was young and some a-hole at a store wanted my SIN as identification for a cheque cashing card. He didn't get it but I got my card. It bugs the hell out of me that I have to use my real name etc to buy stuff online. When I go shopping in the city I get enough cash from the bank to cover it so they can't track my shopping habits. The wife has any rewards program cards in her wallet.

Personally I'm glad I won't be here in 30 years. I've lived thru all the good times and can leave the mess for others to clean up under the watchful eye of Big Brother. I'm not at all happy the way the world is going now and getting worse fast.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 18, 2020)

spek9 said:


> I think I'll send an email and see if this is something they are able to test for me.


That would be sweet. I'll send you a sample of mine to slip in. 

I found the bookmark I was looking for. This site has tons of info about CS. They sell generators but also have a page on how to make your own so not predatory like most sites.






Measuring PPM of Colloidal Silver - Concentration in Parts per Million


Information on Measuring the PPM of Colloidal Silver for Home Producers: Laser Pens, Hanna PWT Meters.



www.silvermedicine.org


----------



## Timezone (Jan 19, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> PPM pens do not accurately read CS ppm.


Here's something I read this morning concerning Determining The Properties of Colloidal Silver By Francis S. Key and George Maass, PhD


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## Cx2H (Jan 19, 2020)

Nice thread, thanks for sharing the knowledge guys.


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## Timezone (Jan 19, 2020)

Thanks and welcome @Cx2H


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## OldMedUser (Jan 19, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Here's something I read this morning concerning Determining The Properties of Colloidal Silver By Francis S. Key and George Maass, PhD


Good one!


----------



## Timezone (Jan 19, 2020)

A few pages ago, I posted photos of my controlled boxes, the black box with the sensors, and


the Node-Red dashboard. If you noticed in the Status column, the "aircool" and "soilsolenoid2" were turned on. The "aircool" turns on a relay in one of the controlled boxes, that's pretty straight forward. The "soilsolenoid2" does things a little different as I had to separate the mains power from the water contact components.


I did this by filling two boxes with stuff.  Stuff like a 12Vdc pump and 7 solenoids in the larger box, and the power supply and all the controls in the smaller box, with an umbilical cord between them. Here're some details in photos.


I chose a pump and manifold and started by drawing up models of components, which I then manipulated to fit into this box. 


A bit of aluminum with holes for aerodynamics, gives me a platform I can build something on.


On the bottom go the terminal strips for all the wiring,


and on the top are the pump and solenoids.


The wiring is almost finished. Notice the diodes connected to the solenoids. That keeps them from causing arcing at the contacts in the relays.


The plumbing is beginning. I'm using this tubing.


Big box is finished for now.


This is the business end with a pickup tube, feeding the self priming pump, and discharge tubes feeding the plants. The electrical cable delivers 12Vdc to each solenoid and the pump.

More later as I have hit a "photo limit" for this post...


----------



## Timezone (Jan 19, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Good one!


Anything you can use?


----------



## rustyshaclkferd (Jan 19, 2020)

Timezone said:


> A few pages ago, I posted photos of my controlled boxes, the black box with the sensors, and
> 
> View attachment 4460128
> the Node-Red dashboard. If you noticed in the Status column, the "aircool" and "soilsolenoid2" were turned on. The "aircool" turns on a relay in one of the controlled boxes, that's pretty straight forward. The "soilsolenoid2" does things a little different as I had to separate the mains power from the water contact components.
> ...


sick dude, nice tutorial


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## Timezone (Jan 19, 2020)

Thanks @rustyshaclkferd and welcome.


This is the smaller, control box. Mounted on the back of the box, and not shown, is this 12Vdc 10A power supply and 12Vdc to 5Vdc converter. On the back panel, is an 8 channel 5Vdc relay module and a fuse box. Finally is the green board mounted to the top. That contains a 5Vdc to 3.3Vdc IC, an 8 channel logic leveling IC, and an ESP-32 development board. Then there is the wiring and programming and...


----------



## rustyshaclkferd (Jan 19, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Thanks @rustyshaclkferd and welcome.
> 
> View attachment 4460400
> This is the smaller, control box. Mounted on the back of the box, and not shown, is this 12Vdc 10A power supply and 12Vdc to 5Vdc converter. On the back panel, is an 8 channel 5Vdc relay module and a fuse box. Finally is the green board mounted to the top. That contains a 5Vdc to 3.3Vdc IC, an 8 channel logic leveling IC, and an ESP-32 development board. Then there is the wiring and programming and...


I love the innovation and your attention to detail is impressive


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 19, 2020)

After reviewing the literature from the links posted and some googling, it seems that the mA flowed during the CS generation determines the time of electrolysis (15mA × 1min = 1mg Ag, thus 3mA × 5min = 1mg Ag, or 15mA·min = 1mg Ag; _I'm not sure how true or accurate this rate is_), and this mA setting is also loosely dependent on how well the solution is stirred during the process. A higher stir rate keeps solution concentration more uniform and if a higher current is used the solution could have a greater local concentration between the electrodes compared to the rest of the solution, which could result in bigger particle size than wanted (<-- why they say to increase stirring at higher currents I'm hypothesizing?).


Ag particle size seems to be of interest by the majority of amateurs, but whether the size needs to be large, small, or ionic seems to be majority contended. The academic studies show that ionic Ag is actually the most anti-microbial form of Ag. They also seem to suggest that the AgNP (silver nano-particles) mode of action is very similar to the ionic Ag and that this is due to the AgNP's transforming into Ionic with time ect. I've not been able to find any academic studies on Ag and plants. So perhaps a larger Ag particle size is wanted for MJ hermaphoditism, but all I could find on the topic was forum based and only MJ forums. The academic world points to ionic as the main beneficial form, but that's with humans and antimicrobial in mind, so I can't really give an opinion on Ag particle size when it comes to forcing female plants to hermaphrodite. (See link below)


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5855666/#!po=6.63717




I did read up that the most common method described is not creating a pure AgNP mixture, but it seems it's some sort of bro-science. This is the adding of Sodium Carbonate and Corn Syrup method. (See link below)








Posted 4/7/2015 - making ionic silver and thinking its colloidal silver


Hello Mike, Here is a link I recently found on the making of Colloidal Silver. This guy seems quite scientific in his approach to making the colloid. He seems to have some background in electricity and chemistry or both. What I hope you will tell me, is what he is doing sound? He never...




lifeforcecolloidalsilver.com








It looks like maybe you could repurpose and recalibrate your pH pens to determine Ag ionic ppm. You could use your TDS meter but you'd have to deduce the EC reading from the ppm (EC = ppm ÷ 500, or EC = ppm ÷ 700) and multiply this by 1.1, and best case scenario would be 10% - 25% off. But as far as AgNP or suspended Ag particles, a laser with a photodiode measuring the intensity of the Tyndall effect would be a pretty accurate way to determine size of suspended Ag, or AgNP size, and a ppm of AgNP's, or suspended Ag particles, could be deduced from subtracting the ionic ppm from the total ppm derived from a Nitric acid wash followed by a HCl wash and filter process described in the link @timezone added. (See links below)
1.


Tyndall


2.


http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/CSProperties.PDF


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## OldMedUser (Jan 19, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Anything you can use?


Probably lots of things I'm not aware of yet. Spent the last few hours getting Win10 fixed up and 3 of those hours were getting my bookmarks moved over into FireFox on Win10. Got 'er done!

Still have to install the Arduino software and a few more. 

DVD and Blu-Ray burners working perfectly now!


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## Sfrigon 1 (Jan 19, 2020)

Not quite ready for this but soon I hope


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## Timezone (Jan 19, 2020)

rustyshaclkferd said:


> I love the innovation and your attention to detail is impressive


Thanks @rustyshaclkferd, stop by anytime, I'll be here until I'm not.


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## Timezone (Jan 19, 2020)

Sfrigon 1 said:


> Not quite ready for this but soon I hope


Welcome @Sfrigon 1. We hope to be here for awhile so when you're ready...


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## Sfrigon 1 (Jan 19, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Welcome @Sfrigon 1. We hope to be here for awhile so when you're ready...


Thanks I appreciate it. I'm old school , just came back in the game so I will see where I end up


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 19, 2020)

Timezone said:


> A few pages ago, I posted photos of my controlled boxes, the black box with the sensors, and
> 
> View attachment 4460128
> the Node-Red dashboard. If you noticed in the Status column, the "aircool" and "soilsolenoid2" were turned on. The "aircool" turns on a relay in one of the controlled boxes, that's pretty straight forward. The "soilsolenoid2" does things a little different as I had to separate the mains power from the water contact components.
> ...


Nice looking setup.


----------



## Sfrigon 1 (Jan 19, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Nice looking setup.


I like big bulbs


----------



## Sfrigon 1 (Jan 19, 2020)

Sfrigon 1 said:


> I like big bulbs


HpS all the way lol


----------



## Timezone (Jan 19, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Probably lots of things I'm not aware of yet. Spent the last few hours getting Win10 fixed up and 3 of those hours were getting my bookmarks moved over into FireFox on Win10. Got 'er done!
> 
> Still have to install the Arduino software and a few more.
> 
> DVD and Blu-Ray burners working perfectly now!


Glad you "Got 'er done!", good luck with 10. I hope you've loaded all the patches and have it up to date, I've heard some things lately... you'll be done in no time now.


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## Mak'er Grow (Jan 19, 2020)

And there goes the thread now....sighhhh
Well good luck folks...I'm out.


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## Timezone (Jan 19, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> And there goes the thread now....sighhhh
> Well good luck folks...I'm out.


???


----------



## cannabineer (Jan 20, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> I started at the 5v and went through them all to 17.5. The PS I use to make the CS is 29.5v @ 460 mA.


That is a surprisingly high voltage difference. The actual electrochemistry can be driven by three volts or maybe less. Can you tell me what the benefit of the higher voltage is ? I may be missing something obvious for which my med-chem bias hasn’t set me up.

If you are interested, I can give you the recipe for making an ionic chelated silver solution that has proven efficacious for sex-changing female plants. My grow partner has done the bioassay on that solution. I like that starting with ionic components, I get known silver concentrations in the active ionic form. The laser test only gives you a yes/no read on the presence of nanoparticles. You’d need expensive analytical equipment to get the concentrations of the material of interest. The analytical need does not apply with ionic silver made from Amazon chemicals, and removes the can of worms implied by needing to manage nanoparticle size.


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 20, 2020)

cannabineer said:


> That is a surprisingly high voltage difference. The actual electrochemistry can be driven by three volts or maybe less. Can you tell me what the benefit of the higher voltage is ? I may be missing something obvious for which my med-chem bias hasn’t set me up.
> 
> If you are interested, I can give you the recipe for making an ionic chelated silver solution that has proven efficacious for sex-changing female plants. My grow partner has done the bioassay on that solution. I like that starting with ionic components, I get known silver concentrations in the active ionic form. The laser test only gives you a yes/no read on the presence of nanoparticles. You’d need expensive analytical equipment to get the concentrations of the material of interest. The analytical need does not apply with ionic silver made from Amazon chemicals, and removes the can of worms implied by needing to manage nanoparticle size.


I used that multi-voltage wall wart just to see what the different voltages put out through that circuit but will most likely just use the 29.5v one I have been using all along. Close to the output that people get using 3 - 9V batteries and from all the research I did to make my own system that range seemed best. Takes about 6 hours per batch.

I read about some chelated type silver on a forum I joined. They were really pushy about systems like mine not being any good and it was their way or the highway so I chose the highway. 

Wouldn't mind seeing what you have tho.


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## cannabineer (Jan 20, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> I used that multi-voltage wall wart just to see what the different voltages put out through that circuit but will most likely just use the 29.5v one I have been using all along. Close to the output that people get using 3 - 9V batteries and from all the research I did to make my own system that range seemed best. Takes about 6 hours per batch.
> 
> I read about some chelated type silver on a forum I joined. They were really pushy about systems like mine not being any good and it was their way or the highway so I chose the highway.
> 
> Wouldn't mind seeing what you have tho.


I can totally see being turned off by a high-handed attitude. I dislike when a good message is shot by bad messengers.

My biggest worry with electrically-prepared colloidal silver is the several variables that matter and could yield very different concentrations of active silver despite identical protocol for each batch. This is a blue-sky guess on my part, but it could be one particle size where most of the activity resides. It could imaginable be much more potent than an equivalent weight of chelated ionic silver. I am daunted by the difficulty/expense of doing the analytical chemistry on so complex a system.

Would you like my recipe/procedure? I am not sure if you asked, and I don’t want to join the pushies.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 20, 2020)

cannabineer said:


> Would you like my recipe/procedure? I am not sure if you asked, and I don’t want to join the pushies.


I asked for it so you're not being pushy.


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## cannabineer (Jan 20, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> I asked for it so you're not being pushy.


Here it is!
Water is distilled (preferred) or RO.

Two stock solutions:
Solution A is 2.00 g silver nitrate in 500 ml water.
Solution B is 12.9 g sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate in 500 ml water.
The stock solutions are stable in the dark.

To make the working solution, add 1 part stock A (silver) to 3 parts water.
Then add 1 part stock B (thiosulfate) to the above solution. Mix well and pour into a clean spray bottle.

This solution is the same silver strength every time, and the ready mix should last several months if stored in the dark.

I would be fascinated to see a potency comparison of ionic silver with different size fractions of the polyatomic silver nanoparticles.
I could see a botany master’s thesis coming of this work.


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## OldMedUser (Jan 20, 2020)

cannabineer said:


> Here it is!
> Water is distilled (preferred) or RO.
> 
> Two stock solutions:
> ...


Ok. That's STS which is what I'm going to use pretty soon here to make fem seeds with. Different recipe tho. 0.8g silver nitrate in 500ml for part A and 3.16g of anhydrous sodium thio in 500ml for Part B. My instructions say to mix A into B slowly with rapid stirring to make a stock sol'n which you dilute 9:1 so 100ml of the stock sol'n into 900ml of RO or distilled to make a litre of spray.

Rather than do that I'll keep A & B separate and use 50ml of each blended just before adding the 100ml to the 900 for a litre of spray as I need it. The two sol'ns should keep a lot longer if not mixed together. A very nice fellow who has been doing this for years sent me enough of both chem to make one batch as I couldn't get hold of the sodium thio. I just a few days ago found a chem company in Ontario that will sell to guys like me and ordered 500g of it. $22 for the chem and Purolator is charging me $69 to get it here. What a rip-off but stuff like that can't legally be sent through the PO. I made 12g of silver nitrate with a .9999 silver coin from the PO and conc nitric acid so I have lots of that and another coin and more acid too if I need more.

That's not a colloidal silver tho. Just a standard silver containing mineral salt. Totally different critters.


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## cannabineer (Jan 20, 2020)

OldMedUser said:


> Ok. That's STS which is what I'm going to use pretty soon here to make fem seeds with. Different recipe tho. 0.8g silver nitrate in 500ml for part A and 3.16g of anhydrous sodium thio in 500ml for Part B. My instructions say to mix A into B slowly with rapid stirring to make a stock sol'n which you dilute 9:1 so 100ml of the stock sol'n into 900ml of RO or distilled to make a litre of spray.
> 
> Rather than do that I'll keep A & B separate and use 50ml of each blended just before adding the 100ml to the 900 for a litre of spray as I need it. The two sol'ns should keep a lot longer if not mixed together. A very nice fellow who has been doing this for years sent me enough of both chem to make one batch as I couldn't get hold of the sodium thio. I just a few days ago found a chem company in Ontario that will sell to guys like me and ordered 500g of it. $22 for the chem and Purolator is charging me $69 to get it here. What a rip-off but stuff like that can't legally be sent through the PO. I made 12g of silver nitrate with a .9999 silver coin from the PO and conc nitric acid so I have lots of that and another coin and more acid too if I need more.
> 
> That's not a colloidal silver tho. Just a standard silver containing mineral salt. Totally different critters.


I made my silver nitrate also - from a silver eagle coin and ACS nitric acid.

I recommend the stronger spray based on Annie’s results. The original instructions were 1 part A, 1 part B and 18 parts water. It didn’t seem to do much.
Double strength 1:1:8 -same story.
Quadruple strength 1:1:3 - positive result.

So that is why I’m spec’ing such a high concentration of STS in the working solution.

I bought my sodium thiosulfate from Amazon. The pentahydrate comes as beautiful columnar crystals.
I do wonder if polysilver ions are more potent.


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 20, 2020)

There seems to be quite the discrepancy about how strong the sol'n should be. When I was looking into it I was surprised. This Sebring guy has been doing it for a long time and basically gives away his seeds for the price of postage. I got 4 strains of his creations for $15US. He uses a 1/8tsp measure for the seeds so I got from 17 - 37 seeds in the packs. Nice snap on lids on shallow plastic tubs with a pillow of cotton in each so they don't bounce around if the package gets shook. He's based in WA.

He says that stronger sol'ns can burn the plants pretty bad so I'll mix this first batch per his direction then when my chem gets here mix up a stronger batch and do a little comparison. Look for damage but also look for efficacy. I'm likely going to be spraying a half dozen different strains in the next little while.


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 21, 2020)

There are some positive contributions being made here. Good work!



cannabineer said:


> That is a surprisingly high voltage difference. The actual electrochemistry can be driven by three volts or maybe less. Can you tell me what the benefit of the higher voltage is ? I may be missing something obvious for which my med-chem bias hasn’t set me up.


The electrical potential is dependent on the electrode spacing and surface area as well as the solution EC. The farther the electrode spacing, smaller the electrode surface area, lower the EC, the greater the voltage needed to pass a set current.

V = I·Ω
Ω = ρ·(L/A)

V = voltage in volts
I = current in amps
Ω = resistance in ohms
ρ = 1/EC
L = distance between electrodes
A = electrode surface area

EC = 1/ρ = [(submerged electrode Surface Area)/(distance between electrodes)]·Ω

As Ag concentration increases so does the EC. lf a voltage source were implemented, the reaction rate would increase with time. If a current source were utilized the reaction rate would maintain at a constant rate.

EDIT:
Temperature (& pH) also effects EC. Utilizing a current source mitigates this as well.


----------



## cannabineer (Jan 21, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> There are some positive contributions being made here. Good work!
> 
> 
> The electrical potential is dependent on the electrode spacing and surface area as well as the solution EC. The farther the electrode spacing, smaller the electrode surface area, lower the EC, the greater the voltage needed to pass a set current.
> ...


I found this reference


https://www.scientificbulletin.upb.ro/rev_docs_arhiva/fullf22_863962.pdf


which describes in poor detail the preparation of stabilized silver particles in water with two stabilizers (polyvinylpyrrolidone and sodium dodecyl sulfate). The Romanian team used a homemade “current pulse generator” to drive the synthesis.

From this I guess/deduce that the voltage has less to do with the minimum needed to push Ag(0) to Ag(+) and back to Ag(0c) with the last symbol denoting elemental silver colloid. Overvoltage drives the reaction _kinetics_ to a practically acceptable value, with electrode area and spacing contributing as your post describes.

My training is in synthetic organic chemistry, so my knowledge of electrochemistry never advanced beyond the undergraduate level. It has since receded considerably, so your electrochemical primer is useful; thank you.

I lack the chemical knowledge andor intuition to answer where the optimum in particle size, and thus the tuning of the key parameters: electrode size, electrode spacing, current per area (current density) that drive the system toward an optimal nanosilver particle size distribution. So I cannot comment usefully on best preparation or use of the colloid. “Above my pay grade.”

For me, the take-home lesson is that applied voltage is not a thermodynamic but a kinetic control, one that sets the important I/A value.

I wonder if a pulse current generator would be of benefit here. It allows control of I and thus I/A better than using a fixed input voltage. All this is based on my assumption that achieving a certain particle size and concentration matters to get the final effect: sex-reversing female Cannabis.

Thoughts?


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## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 21, 2020)

cannabineer said:


> I found this reference
> 
> 
> https://www.scientificbulletin.upb.ro/rev_docs_arhiva/fullf22_863962.pdf
> ...


It would seem as though the addition of "PVP 55" at 5g/L, as well as the addition of "Na-LS" at 0.5g/L, will provide for a more consistent distribution of particle size (10nm - 55nm), but I'm not sure exactly how reactive (for feminizing) the resultant molecule will be as opposed to ionic Ag or Ag compounds without the stabilizers utilized. Perhaps your background can further this ambiguity to a point of more certainty for me.

I liked the idea of reversing polarity of the electrodes, but I'm not sure if this reversal is contributing to a greater colloidal content aside from distributing the reaction site within the solution more evenly, allowing for the stabilizers to have more impact? I'm curious how an increased stir rate might offset, or if the purpose stems from other intricacies at play?

Reversing the polarity essentially reverses which electrode is plated and which is oxidized. I'm guessing the addition of the stabilizers helps to reduce the reduction at the cathode while enveloping the Ag oxidized at the anode. This reversal, along with the stabilizer addition would ultimately reduce the plating effect noticed at the cathode, as well as what I'm partially assuming is the "film build up" at the anode (I've never made CS and just started to learn about it) from microbubbles ect.

Interesting the absorption spectra derived. It seems it was attained using a 7g/L PVP 55 stabilizer addition (no mention of Na-LS) and an electrolysis duration of 3hrs & 5hrs. The peak moved little while the absorption % was more influenced. Perhaps a 420nm laser/LED and a similarly wavelength sensative photodiode would give a decent estimate as to how much colloidal silver is present (with calibration).

I'm not sure how cyclic voltammetry, or the reduction of anodic current with polarity reversal, is evidence of increasing colloidal Ag content. Its my understanding that Ag will disassociate from the probes as Ag ions first, but then into Ag compounds as time progresses and these compounds are then being adsorbed by the stabilzers. This process of AgNP forming from Ag ions will ultimately reduce the EC which would drop the conventional current flow if voltage were constant, but if you're continually electrolizing the solution, shouldn't the current observed maintain (assuming the solution is initially in equilibrium)? Or are the stabilizers contributing to the overall EC, such that when they absorb to the AgNP's they are effectively reduced, and the ion concentration of the entire solution drops which then reduces the observed current flow as well?


----------



## cannabineer (Jan 21, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> It would seem as though the addition of "PVP 55" at 5g/L, as well as the addition of "Na-LS" at 0.5g/L, will provide for a more consistent distribution of particle size (10nm - 55nm), but I'm not sure exactly how reactive (for feminizing) the resultant molecule will be as opposed to ionic Ag or Ag compounds without the stabilizers utilized. Perhaps your background can further this ambiguity to a point of more certainty for me.
> 
> I liked the idea of reversing polarity of the electrodes, but I'm not sure if this reversal is contributing to a greater colloidal content aside from distributing the reaction site within the solution more evenly, allowing for the stabilizers to have more impact? I'm curious how an increased stir rate might offset, or if the purpose stems from other intricacies at play?
> 
> ...


The way I read the cyclic voltammetry result is thus: CV gives a read of how much electrochemically active silver (which I would formalize as [Ag(+)] or the concentration of silver monoanion) is present. Total silver is up but CV read is down = most of the silver is unreactive and thus putatively colloidal neutral silver. So the curves that go low fast and stay low correlate with effective conditions for producing and maintaining detectable nanosilver.

The rest of your post contains questions that mirror my own. Just what is the correlation between nanoparticle size (silver atoms per) and biological activity using a basic measure like total silver ppm mass/volume?

Combine this with an investigation of ethylene-bonding thermodynamics and kinetics, and I think we have the grist here for a full-monkey Ph.D. thesis.

Add to this questions of nanosilver particle morphology. I’ve read about nanocubes and nanowires. I don’t imagine they’ll have a similar activity in terms of ethylene-binding speed or capacity. Ethylene is the hormone that silver selectively takes out of play by complication. Investigation of that bonding constant v. particle size and shape is work that is begging to be done (imo) in order to define what CS parameters are important to us weed handlers.

It is my intrinsic laziness that has me go with the much simpler ionic-silver tech for this use.

I like the 420-nm absorbance info. This means that with a student Spec-20 (a “student-rated“ unit that in skilled hands can give precise colloidal silver concentration values. I’ve had direct contact with them as an instructor, and remain in awe of the students’ capacity to test them into destruction and the plucky little unit’s will to survive.) one can get a good read on colloidal silver concentration. This datum will allow the interested amateur to correlate chemical species with success in shemaling weed.

On a personal note, now that you’ve seen that I play nice outside of Toke&Talk, you may want to quote your calumny against me in that thread and post a revision. That would be kind of cool, if it is credibly real. Tag you’re it.


----------



## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 21, 2020)

cannabineer said:


> The way I read the cyclic voltammetry result is thus: CV gives a read of how much electrochemically active silver (which I would formalize as [Ag(+)] or the concentration of silver monoanion) is present. Total silver is up but CV read is down = most of the silver is unreactive and thus putatively colloidal neutral silver. So the curves that go low fast and stay low correlate with effective conditions for producing and maintaining detectable nanosilver.
> 
> The rest of your post contains questions that mirror my own. Just what is the correlation between nanoparticle size (silver atoms per) and biological activity using a basic measure like total silver ppm mass/volume?
> 
> ...


TBH I was just being truthful, but lets maintain this thread for what it is and if there are things that you feel you'd like to discuss outside of the general intention of this thread feel free to IM me. Objectively speaking, you've contributed positively and it has been noted, and speaking for myself, valued. 

I didn't know that ethylene was a hormone, interesting.


----------



## cannabineer (Jan 21, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> TBH I was just being truthful, but lets maintain this thread for what it is and if there are things that you feel you'd like to discuss outside of the general intention of this thread feel free to IM me. Objectively speaking, you've contributed positively and it has been noted, and speaking for myself, valued.
> 
> I didn't know that ethylene was a hormone, interesting.


You were not being truthful, and this deployment of your dishonesty to further your false witness disappoints me.

Ethylene is a plant hormone. They use it commercially to ripen fruit that was more cheaply transported firm and green, and then is locally forced ripe. I am ignorant of the underlying biochemistry. But the effect is that intercepting ethylene with silver ion (silver metal and silver ion are peculiarly good at binding ethylene) and thereby denying it to the relevant receptor drives the weed plant’s sex reversal phenomenon.


----------



## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 21, 2020)

@TrippleDip @ilovereggae 
Attached is the graph Im trying to add to the web interface. Just wanted to show and tell a little lol..


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## Timezone (Jan 22, 2020)

My 2 cents:
*Colloidal Silver the easy way*


----------



## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 29, 2020)

Anyone good with inductors?
...


ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Ive been stuck on how an induced magnetic field collapses after initial current has been cut and not sure if the rate of collapse is dependent upon the amount of resistance/impedance in the electrical circuit in which the inductor is part of.
> 
> So if you're boosting voltage in a conventional boost topology, and lets say there's 2 scenarios, 1 scenario your storage cap is at 385V, and the 2nd scenario your storage cap is 40V, does the induced magnetic field about the boost inductor collapse at the same rate, regardless the opposing voltage in the inductor discharge path (from storage cap), or is the mag field collapse dependent on oppositional voltage? I think all the graphs and charts I've seen on inductor discharge characteristics are representing a discharge across a linear resistance, or linear load, and Ill be dealing with non linear loads so I'm not sure how this effects the discharge rate. I can determine energy stored in a magnetic field but I need to determine the rate at which that enegy is discharged so I can calculate switching Hz and PWM for the desired power needed. I think I can just assume that a 50% duty cycle will result in sufficient OFF time to allow a full inductor discharge. Its hard to get the answers for specific small details from Google sometimes, so I'm leaning towards just using a dedicated PFC IC, but I feel like I've put a bit of time into comprehending what's needed, so I'd like not to give up when I feel like I'm close, but then more time goes by so..


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## Timezone (Jan 30, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> Anyone good with inductors?


Not me. I am curious though. What's up? A power supply or something?

Could your answer be here in this article, Automatic PFC for Single Phase Loads by Means of Arduino Based TRIAC Control of Capacitor Banks?


----------



## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 31, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Not me. I am curious though. What's up? A power supply or something?
> 
> Could your answer be here in this article, Automatic PFC for Single Phase Loads by Means of Arduino Based TRIAC Control of Capacitor Banks?


Yep offline SMPS, and thanks, that looks interesting. It's using a different method than I'm working on, but I need to look it over in more depth, if it's more efficient then I'll use it. I've not built an SMPS with PFC before so trying to determine the most efficient solution first, then the most cost effective. Right now I'm designing based on a bridgeless dual boost converter operating in CCM managed by an esp32. Maybe use an AT tiny, that would probably be better if it's capable, I've not messed with them at all though yet.


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 31, 2020)

It's all Greek to me man!


----------



## Timezone (Jan 31, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> ...trying to determine the most efficient solution first, then the most cost effective.


Why not just buy one? It sounds like you're reinventing the wheel or is this a learning thing? TRC Electronics is a good source.



OldMedUser said:


> It's all Greek to me man!


@ChiefRunningPhist is building a switch mode power supply (*SMPS*), with power factor correction (*PFC*), running in constant current mode (*CCM*), probably for led lighting.


----------



## ChiefRunningPhist (Jan 31, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Why not just buy one? It sounds like you're reinventing the wheel or is this a learning thing? TRC Electronics is a good source.
> 
> 
> @ChiefRunningPhist is building a switch mode power supply (*SMPS*), with power factor correction (*PFC*), running in constant current mode (*CCM*), probably for led lighting.


There's a few types of operation possible for boost converters. CCM means continuous conduction mode, DCM means discontinuous conduction mode, BCM means borderline conduction mode, ect. The terms point to how the current is being flowed through the boost inductor during PFC operation. 

Haha and ya, mainly just a learning thing. I'd liken it to building a CS generator over buying one, or building an environmental control system over buying one. I could buy an SMPS but the efficiencies are lower than what I could build myself, also cost and form factor, or the actual shape. I could buy dedicated PFC chips to manage the waveform that achieve 99% efficiency (PFC stage), and they are not expensive, but I'd like to determine the how. It will translate into other areas of electronics and Id like not to think of them as little magical black boxes that somehow work, I'd like to understand fully. It will help with troubleshooting on top of me also just being super curious lol. I get why and what but the how is what I'm trying to re-invent as part of a test of my comprehension as well as satisfying other design requirements in the process. Ill take a peek at that link, max of ~93% efficiency is what I'm seeing (so far) from the models I've looked over. I'm designing for 97%+. Typically prebuilt PS's use more lossy components to cut costs and this results in lower efficiency. They aren't designing for uber efficiency in a 100W or 60W or 200W PS ect, because the cost would be more and saving 5% more power on a 100W PS doesn't really make much differnce in cost per kWh, and if you need a 100W PS for a stereo or something you're not concerned with the 9% efficiency loss, you just want your device to be powered, so intended consumer application also leads to designing for less than maximum efficiency. LED drivers are becoming more and more prevalent, but most LED are not used for horticulture applications so the drivers aren't designed with the intent on maximizing μmol/J, and again cost comes into play, if you just need a display light at your store you really don't care about the extreme efficiency so cost would factor in your PS decision more than efficiency.


----------



## etruthfx (Feb 1, 2020)

ToFarGone said:


> I’ll be honest way to many posts and so much information to fully read through  however I’d love to see some of the codes you guys are running


Here is a simple python script to control the relay and co2 meter via serial uart connection.
i've posted this in another thread but i'll post it here too for you all to take a look. It's a touchscreen Rpi with IOT Relay and Co2/temp/humidity sensor completely customizable with python. Uses teamviewer to be easily monitored and controlled by my laptop from anywhere.


```
#import dependencies
#!/usr/bin/python
import serial
import time
import datetime
import os
import RPi.GPIO as GPIO

#functions for relay
GPIO.setmode(GPIO.BCM)   #initilize gpio to bcm number system
PWR = 17                 #Set input pin
GPIO.setwarnings(False)  #turn warnings off
GPIO.setup(PWR,GPIO.OUT) #initiate output mode
GPIO.output(PWR,False)   #turn off at start
ser = serial.Serial("/dev/serial0")
ser.write("M 4\r\n") # set display mode to show only CO2
ser.write("K 1\r\n") # set operating mode
ser.flushInput()
time.sleep(1)
i=0
def runTime():
    #time in seconds
    x = 300
    return x
    
def co2ppm():
    #value of ppm to set
    y = 1100
    return y

def readSerial():
    ser.flushInput()
    ser.write("Z\r\n")
    resp = ser.read(10)
    resp = resp[:8]
    multiplier = 10
    try:
        z = float(resp[2:])
    except:
        print("Error fltCo2 Is invalid")
        z = 0
    return z*multiplier

def checkStatus():
    print("Checking status.")
    if (GPIO.input(PWR) == True):
        relayStatus = True
        print("Relay status:",relayStatus)
    else:
        relayStatus = False
        print("Relay status:",relayStatus)
    return relayStatus
    
def dispenseGas():
    print("Dispensing Gas")
    relayStatus = checkStatus()
    #Check status
    if(relayStatus==True):
        #Shut off if already active
        stopRelay()
    else:
        #Dispense gas for X seconds
        GPIO.output(PWR,True)
        print("dispensing")
        relayStatus = checkStatus()
        timeAmmount = runTime() #seconds to activate
        for t in xrange(timeAmmount,0,-1):
            fltCo2 = readSerial()
            print(str(t),"CO2 PPM = ", fltCo2,"Running")
            time.sleep(1)
    #Shut off
    stopRelay()
            
def outputDateTime():
#Calculate day of week and time
    print("Printing day and time info")
    if (day==1):
          strWeek = "Monday"
          print(day,":",hour,":",minute,":",second, strWeek)
    elif (day == 2):
          strWeek = "Tuesday"
          print(day,":",hour,":",minute,":",second, strWeek)
    elif (day == 3):
          strWeek = "Wednesday"
          print(day,":",hour,":",minute,":",second, strWeek)
    elif (day == 4):
          strWeek = "Thursday"
          print(day,":",hour,":",minute,":",second, strWeek)
    elif (day == 5):
          strWeek = "Friday"
          print(day,":",hour,":",minute,":",second, strWeek)
    elif (day == 6):
          strWeek = "Saturday"
          print(day,":",hour,":",minute,":",second, strWeek)
    elif (day == 7):
          strWeek = "Sunday"
          print(day,":",hour,":",minute,":",second, strWeek)
    return strWeek
    
def stopRelay():
    print("Stopping Relay")
    #Stop RPi Power and error check
    GPIO.output(PWR,False)
    relayStatus = checkStatus()
    if(relayStatus==True):
         print("Cannot dispense, turning off")
         GPIO.output(PWR,False)
         while (relayStatus == True):
             GPIO.output(PWR,False)
             if(relayStatus==True):
                  #Shutdown Pi On critical Error
                  print("Critical error. Performed emergency Quit safety feature")
                  os.system("sudo shutdown - r now")
    


###############
#Call functions
print("Calling functions")
fltLast = 0
first = True
while True:
    if first==True:
        stopRelay()
        time.sleep(1)
        fltCo2 = readSerial() #Buffer first result
        
        #Create date/time variables
        day = datetime.datetime.today().weekday() #as int
        hour = datetime.datetime.now().hour
        minute = datetime.datetime.now().minute
        second = datetime.datetime.now().second
        
        #store variables for when script is first started
        timeStartedHr = hour
        timeStartedMn = minute
        print("Hour:",hour,"Minute:",minute)
        first = False
    else:
        #Create date/time variables
        day = datetime.datetime.today().weekday() #day as int
        hour = datetime.datetime.now().hour
        minute = datetime.datetime.now().minute
        second = datetime.datetime.now().second
        time.sleep(1)
        i = i+1                 #Value for seconds elapsed
        fltCo2 = readSerial()
        co2Ammount = co2ppm()
        
        #Check co2 vs last and output if changed
        if fltLast != fltCo2: 
            fltLast = fltCo2
            print(i,":", "CO2 PPM = ", fltCo2)
        #Compare co2 to threshold
        if ((fltCo2 < co2Ammount) & (fltCo2 != 0)):
            status = checkStatus()
            dispenseGas()
            stopRelay()
            status = checkStatus()
        #Check error
        elif (fltCo2 == 0):
            print("could not dispense")
            time.sleep(1)
```


----------



## Timezone (Feb 2, 2020)

etruthfx said:


> Here is a simple python script to control the relay and co2 meter via serial uart connection.


Welcome @etruthfx and thanks for the contribution. I'm new to Python but I think I can follow what's happening. What CO2 sensor are you using?


----------



## TrippleDip (Feb 2, 2020)

spek9 said:


> I can do my best, but I'll need to know your budget


Ok, my previous scope was similar to the allsun 2 in 1 that's $325 on amazon right now. It has everything I want: class 3, 2 inputs, handheld, and >50MSPS

Right now I am working on something with nearly 30 data lines and two clocks and corresponding analog voltages up to 400V that are obviously well isolated from the electronics. More than 2ch would be nice but not necessary because I want to verify timings not logic. The clock rate is 4MHz which I believes requires a minimum of 40MSPS and in the future I might want to go higher.

Other options I have seen are the cheap sainsmart 4ch (big plus) units that vary from 150 to 250 dollars. The big downside is that they're not class 3 and I feel like they would be easier to break than the standard handheld units. Also the hantech pc oscilloscopes that are around 100-150 which are not portable and again have a low voltage range but they supply x10 to x1000 probes.

Is there any way to get something similar to the standard, heavy duty, class 3 oscilloscopes for under $250? Are the hantech pc oscilloscopes reliable? Everything that looks good seems like its more than $300.


----------



## TrippleDip (Feb 2, 2020)

ChiefRunningPhist said:


> After reviewing the literature from the links posted and some googling, it seems that the mA flowed during the CS generation determines the time of electrolysis (15mA × 1min = 1mg Ag, thus 3mA × 5min = 1mg Ag, or 15mA·min = 1mg Ag; _I'm not sure how true or accurate this rate is_),


This is actually something I know something about. One thing to understand is that electrons are not moving from the metal to the water and back to the metal like in an electronic circuit.

At the cathode we have mostly
2H2O +2e -> 2OH- + H2(g) occuring at -0.8v

At the anode we have mostly
Ag(s) -> Ag+(aq) + e- occuring at 0.8v, and
2Ag(s) + 2OH- -> Ag2O(s) + H2O +2e- occuring at 0.3v
Ag(s) + 2H2O > Ag2O2(s) + 4H+ +e- occuring at 1.8v
This last equation should tell you immediately why higher voltages are bad - less silver in solution and more black oxidation on the wires. It should also tell you there is a minimum voltage required (~1.6v after accounting for other losses) It would be interesting to run experiments between 1.7v and 2.6v to see how much oxidation is produced but I believe it will increase significantly after 2.6v. If you want further reading look up an electrochemical series for silver and you can see why ac current is much preferred - it takes less energy to release electrons from the silver oxide than it does to split water.

Regarding how many ppms vs time and current. From the above you can see that ideally one electron is transfered per one silver molecule. To transfer 1mg of silver into solution you would need 9umol of electrons. 9 umol of electrons is 96C or 96 Amp-seconds (faraday constant). Thus under ideal conditions to prepare 1L of a 10ppm solution you would need to pass 96As or 100mA for 2.7h

Hope that helps. Also I like that you mentioned the tyndall effect / nephelometry. It would be interesting to know if anyone has rigged up a photodiode at 90 degrees to a laser beam to measure concentration or how one could go about separating concentration from particle size. I figure it would have to be calibrated by making large quantities of CS (10s of L) and evaporating the liquid to determine the mass of silver.


----------



## spek9 (Feb 18, 2020)

I started putting some of my grow monitoring, automation and security systems online this morning.

So far I've got temperature and light monitoring for two of my four tents, temperature and light monitoring for the basement the tents are in, basement motion sensor, basement door sensor, and an alarm button that shows whether the alarm is on or off (and allows me to toggle it).

The alarm is automatically enabled 30 minutes after lights-on (giving me 30 minutes to do my work), and disabled 30 minutes before lights-off (again, time to do any work). It's disabled throughout the day, but I enable it any time we're not at home (it's armed automatically when we arm my separate home security alarm). The alarm sounds a buzzer, enough to let someone know something has happened, a camera is enabled and streams video remotely, the basement lights turn on, and I get both email and text message notifications (including pictures).

Still need to add humidity sensors, widgets for all of the relays (humidifiers, fans etc), widgets for my nutrient tank mixture levels, my other flower tent, my clone tent, aerocloner water level, and everything I've forgotten to mention. Just testing the reliability of the IoT system before I add much more.

You can view the system as it is, here: https://cayenne.mydevices.com/shared/5e4c824733ed91791a9d83ec


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## etruthfx (Feb 28, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Welcome @etruthfx and thanks for the contribution. I'm new to Python but I think I can follow what's happening. What CO2 sensor are you using?


I'm sorry for the delay I missed this. I'm using Cozir K30 from here.








ExplorIR®-WV 20% CO2 Sensor


**Important Supply Note** - The sensor manufacturer has informed us of component supply shortages that may extend lead times past 52 weeks. Contact [email protected] for additional information or help sourcing an alternate sensor. The ExplorIR®-WV (formerly known as CozIR Wide Range) is a...




www.co2meter.com


----------



## spek9 (Mar 12, 2020)

I've done more work on my grow environment automation/monitoring system.

My basement is a consistently stable 52F, and 75% RH. Flower exhaust stays on low when the light is off. Veg tent light is 24/0. When temp gets above 77F in veg, it enables the exhaust fan until the temp goes back below 76F. The hot air is blown into the flower tent to keep the temp up above 56F.

When the flower lamp is on, the exhaust turns on at 78F, and turns off at 76F, keeping the temp stable at ~77F. I have a little fan running constantly exhausting just a slight amount of air in order to keep a minimum of negative airflow in the flower tent.

Although I have the dehumidifier code tested, I haven't implemented it into this prototype as of yet. Probably tomorrow. For now, it's just the fans that are automated.

Here's the main dashboard of all of the important pieces. Note the "Shroom" widgets. That's a new mushroom cabinet I built... my wife wants to do micro-dosing. I haven't yet added in my main production flower tent yet... the one being tested is my experiment flower tent, where I do breeding and such. If something goes horribly wrong, it's not that big of a deal:



Dashboard for my basement security:



Here's the dashboard for the important bits of the shroom cab:



I've added in some basic emergency alerting as well. So far, all I've added in is if one of the readings from a hygrometer is out of whack, it adds to the issue count of the specific element, and sends me an email and a text. Also, if there's a reading error, it enables the fan for the respective tent as an emergency measure to protect against a runaway heat situation:



Because everything is logged and can be visualized by graph over short or long periods, it makes it trivially easy to test out changes for efficiency and stability purposes and get immediate and long-term information on what works, and what doesn't. The data is also downloadable in a format that allows for programmatic analyzation and inspection.

One last thing to note... all of the automation is done locally on the microcontroller, and the Internet is not required for any operation. The only role the Internet plays is allowing the storage and visualization of data.


----------



## Mak'er Grow (Mar 12, 2020)

spek9 said:


> I've done more work on my grow environment automation/monitoring system.
> 
> My basement is a consistently stable 52F, and 75% RH. Flower exhaust stays on low when the light is off. Veg tent light is 24/0. When temp gets above 77F in veg, it enables the exhaust fan until the temp goes back below 76F. The hot air is blown into the flower tent to keep the temp up above 56F.
> 
> ...


Show Off !!
Lol...just kidding...its looking great !
I wish I could code this well...I can do what I need to, but this is a few levels up from my ability at this point.


----------



## etruthfx (Mar 12, 2020)

spek9 said:


> I've done more work on my grow environment automation/monitoring system.
> 
> My basement is a consistently stable 52F, and 75% RH. Flower exhaust stays on low when the light is off. Veg tent light is 24/0. When temp gets above 77F in veg, it enables the exhaust fan until the temp goes back below 76F. The hot air is blown into the flower tent to keep the temp up above 56F.
> 
> ...


Nice. I posted mine in another RPi thread before but here it is again. CO2/RH/Temp logging and control all in this 1 sensor. Programmed the relay and sensor myself, has logging capabilities and error detection, Soon to have web functionality but for now I use teamviewer.
Coded myself.


----------



## spek9 (Mar 12, 2020)

etruthfx said:


> Nice. I posted mine in another RPi thread before but here it is again. CO2/RH/Temp logging and control all in this 1 sensor. Programmed the relay and sensor myself, has logging capabilities and error detection, Soon to have web functionality but for now I use teamviewer.
> Coded myself.
> View attachment 4502740View attachment 4502741


Yeah, I saw that before. Nice!

All of the grow room areas in my basement are controlled with an ESP8266 NodeMCU-12e micro controller.

The shroom cabinet, which operates a single heater to keep the temp between 24-27C is controlled by an Arduino Pro Mini micro controller, which sends all the data to a RPi3b via a USB serial connection, and the RPi uploads the data to the Internet.

I'm building two more devices, one to monitor my nutrient mix tanks (I'll use another ESP8266 here), and one to monitor my cloner tent (temp and humidity, and water temp). I'll probably use an RPi ZeroW for this, with an ADC1115 analog-to-digital converter to read the analog water temperature.


----------



## etruthfx (Mar 13, 2020)

spek9 said:


> Yeah, I saw that before. Nice!
> 
> All of the grow room areas in my basement are controlled with an ESP8266 NodeMCU-12e micro controller.
> 
> ...


I think RPi implementation into cloning is a really good idea and been thinking of ways to do it myself. Growing buds is easy, anyone can do it just give them a few nutes and some time and you got buds. But the true art is cloning, duplicating 1 plant and creating more life than before. And that's where the money comes from. So you do not want to play around when it comes to taking clones. You can always add misters, or fans with humidity controllers and see what works best.


----------



## Mak'er Grow (Apr 15, 2020)

Been wondering about connecting a digital reset pin of sorts for my mega2560 project and wondered if anyone has done anything where say...turning pin 44 high activates a transistor or mosfet or something to short/connect reset pin so arduino resets...like pressing the reset button.
So when errors come up we can software option for a reset. 
I looked around for any code and only found info saying the reset is not connected beyond the button basically and in my project its under the LCD and theres no way to press it...I have to unplug and plug in again.
I finally did some code edits for the new multiplexer and sensors and the tests have gone fine so soon I will install them again and have better temp/humidity readings.


----------



## spek9 (Apr 15, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> Been wondering about connecting a digital reset pin of sorts for my mega2560 project and wondered if anyone has done anything where say...turning pin 44 high activates a transistor or mosfet or something to short/connect reset pin so arduino resets...like pressing the reset button.
> So when errors come up we can software option for a reset.
> I looked around for any code and only found info saying the reset is not connected beyond the button basically and in my project its under the LCD and theres no way to press it...I have to unplug and plug in again.
> I finally did some code edits for the new multiplexer and sensors and the tests have gone fine so soon I will install them again and have better temp/humidity readings.


There are a few ways to reset the board. Here are two. The first is software only, and requires no GPIO pins:


```
void(* resetFunc) (void) = 0;

void setup () {
    Serial.begin(9600);
}

void loop () {
    Serial.println(F("Doing nothing but rebooting... la-la-la"));
    resetFunc();
}
```
The next way requires a GPIO pin. Essentially, connect the RESET pin on the board to another GPIO (eg: 12). digitalWrite() pin 12 to HIGH and then pinMode() it as OUTPUT in setup(). When you want to reset the board, simply set pin 12 LOW.


----------



## XDabxdoubx (Apr 22, 2020)

If anyone is interested, I got a set up involving a few seperate arduino, a camera, some actuators for the pumps, common EC/PH sensors and some computer vision models that allow you to test n.p.k autonomously. Soil, hydro, or aquaponics(yes computer vision aquaponic models to track fish). Just let me know with a message.


----------



## XDabxdoubx (Apr 22, 2020)

Also outside of the computer vision, it relies on machine learning to maximize the growth of the plant based on sensor constraints


----------



## Mak'er Grow (Apr 22, 2020)

XDabxdoubx said:


> If anyone is interested, I got a set up involving a few seperate arduino, a camera, some actuators for the pumps, common EC/PH sensors and some computer vision models that allow you to test n.p.k autonomously. Soil, hydro, or aquaponics(yes computer vision aquaponic models to track fish). Just let me know with a message.


I'm just about to start working on 2 little cams I bought about a year ago. What cams are you using?


----------



## spek9 (Apr 22, 2020)

XDabxdoubx said:


> If anyone is interested, I got a set up involving a few seperate arduino, a camera, some actuators for the pumps, common EC/PH sensors and some computer vision models that allow you to test n.p.k autonomously. Soil, hydro, or aquaponics(yes computer vision aquaponic models to track fish). Just let me know with a message.


Is the code Open Source? Is it available on Github?


----------



## XDabxdoubx (Apr 22, 2020)

Mak'er Grow said:


> I'm just about to start working on 2 little cams I bought about a year ago. What cams are you using?


Standard usb cameras or raspberry pi IR camera. Though I'm working on adding flir IR phone cameras to the software once I buy one and figure it out.


----------



## XDabxdoubx (Apr 22, 2020)

spek9 said:


> Is the code Open Source? Is it available on Github?


It currently isnt open source or on github anymore because I'm working on selling it soon as a grow system and getting the software thoroughly updated. Once that's out there I will open source on github again so other makers can use it out of box. I dont mind helping someone trouble shoot their designs or answer coding/hardware questions.


----------



## Mak'er Grow (Apr 22, 2020)

XDabxdoubx said:


> Standard usb cameras or raspberry pi IR camera. Though I'm working on adding flir IR phone cameras to the software once I buy one and figure it out.


I picked up 2 OV7670 cams and will be trying to connect at least 1 to my mega 2560.
Waiting on the voltage converter board/chip, but have read a little on them here and there...always looking for new info tho.


----------



## XDabxdoubx (Apr 22, 2020)

It really depends on how you use the cameras. 



 check that out if you end up connecting your mega to a raspberry pi and know some python.


----------



## 4ftRoots (May 3, 2020)

I don't know if it has been mentioned. Mycodo here: https://github.com/kizniche/Mycodo
It's a great environmental controller software that runs on a RPI. Supports a ton of input devices. Could help a lot of growers automate their space.


----------



## XDabxdoubx (May 6, 2020)

4ftRoots said:


> I don't know if it has been mentioned. Mycodo here: https://github.com/kizniche/Mycodo
> It's a great environmental controller software that runs on a RPI. Supports a ton of input devices. Could help a lot of growers automate their space.


I really like that !


----------



## ilovereggae (May 19, 2020)

I was about to buy another SensorPush for a new setup I am working on, and decided to see if Adafruit or anyone had something simple for temp/humidity that I could get setup quickly and get into the Arduino world. Most everything I saw would require that I either wire up my own bluetooth or wifi module though in order to capture the data, and I need to get this installed asap.

I stumbled across this one, and it looks pretty awesome for $30! Anyone seen or tried one of these out yet?






Development Tools - Silicon Labs


Software and hardware development tools to help you use our 8-bit and 32-bit microcontrollers, interface, sensors, USB ToolStick, wireless and RF devices.




www.silabs.com





It is like their starter / demo 'puck' that showcases what some of their components can do. Think I might grab one just to try it out. Seems like it will give me the temp/rh I need, but also has an ambient light sensor to measure lux (which if you read some of my original posts on this thread was another goal). I figure this gets me up and running with included app on day 1, but I can then extend the functionality or add to it over time. Waiting on your feedback before I pull the trigger.


----------



## 4ftRoots (May 19, 2020)

ilovereggae said:


> I was about to buy another SensorPush for a new setup I am working on, and decided to see if Adafruit or anyone had something simple for temp/humidity that I could get setup quickly and get into the Arduino world. Most everything I saw would require that I either wire up my own bluetooth or wifi module though in order to capture the data, and I need to get this installed asap.
> 
> I stumbled across this one, and it looks pretty awesome for $30! Anyone seen or tried one of these out yet?
> 
> ...


Check out the SHT31 dev pack on mouser for temp and humidity logging. I use it, works great with Rpi and a usb bluetooth dongle. Should be like 40 bucks I think.

This one really has my interest: https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/miflora/
Haven't had to time to get and test. but it would be great for working with blumats. and keeping them dialed in


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## ilovereggae (May 19, 2020)

4ftRoots said:


> Check out the SHT31 dev pack on mouser for temp and humidity logging. I use it, works great with Rpi and a usb bluetooth dongle. Should be like 40 bucks I think.
> 
> This one really has my interest: https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/miflora/
> Haven't had to time to get and test. but it would be great for working with blumats. and keeping them dialed in


The SHT31 looks rad. Its only $22 and actually has BLE already so could I just use that to capture data on my laptop?


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## 4ftRoots (May 19, 2020)

ilovereggae said:


> The SHT31 looks rad. Its only $22 and actually has BLE already so could I just use that to capture data on my laptop?


Yep! I'm not sure if they have a PC application. But you can connect with your phone and pull data that way. Coupling with Mycodo is my general recommendation


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## ilovereggae (May 19, 2020)

4ftRoots said:


> This one really has my interest: https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/miflora/
> Haven't had to time to get and test. but it would be great for working with blumats. and keeping them dialed in


Those MiFlora look great too. I have an Adafruit soil temp/humidity sensor but it doesnt have BLE onboard so I never got around to using it yet.

Only question is the first Gearbest site says they are discontinued?


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## 4ftRoots (May 19, 2020)

ilovereggae said:


> Those MiFlora look great too. I have an Adafruit soil temp/humidity sensor but it doesnt have BLE onboard so I never got around to using it yet.
> 
> Only question is the first Gearbest site says they are discontinued?


I know. What a bummer. I found some on ebay and amazon. Little expensive though.

I'd love a BLE sensor to measure soil moisture...


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## spek9 (May 28, 2020)

I've moved to Wemos D1 Mini units for my production grow tents. I've also wired in several sensors that guard my house and property. Here's a collection of a few various sensors while I'm in transition:



Again, that's a collection of various sensors only. It does not depict all of them.

My "breach" sensors alert me via text and email (with camera motion) when things move when they shouldn't. Also, I have a significant 120V alarm sound when my house is breached. Since I live on a lake, the alarm isn't something a B&E person wants to hear as they come within 15" of any window or entry point. If the audible doesn't bust ear drums, it'll send shock waves.


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## 4ftRoots (May 29, 2020)

spek9 said:


> I've moved to Wemos D1 Mini units for my production grow tents. I've also wired in several sensors that guard my house and property. Here's a collection of a few various sensors while I'm in transition:
> 
> View attachment 4579275
> 
> ...


What software are you using? Very nice!


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## hot_box_enthusiast (Jun 12, 2020)

(edited to add - I will re-read all of this thread now that I will be able to understand more of it - I realize some of my questions are covered here! thanks for your patience)

Would love a nudge in the right direction from some of the experts here. I am VERY new (2 days) to Arduino. My first "project" was to try and use nodemcu with bme280 to get the data output to local a webpage (one of the wesbites I used https://lastminuteengineers.com/bme280-esp8266-weather-station)

LOL. I didn't realize the bme280 had to be soldered to the header pins, you would have laughed seeing me wondering why my first attempts weren't working with the bme just balancing on header pins in a breadboard. haha. So yesterday I did my first attempt at soldering, and got the basic project working. its been hanging all night in my tent, and I've been comparing to my INKBIRD (temp/humidity controller) and generic device. (aside - now I want to take the inkbird and my generic device apart to see what sensors they use... I would guess possibly the less accurate dht11 or 22)

next - *DATA LOGGING. Please help me*. I started googling this last night, and see there are many different ways to approach. Onboard sd card storage, more complex web servers etc. For my setup - my nodemcu are in my house on local wifi. all i need to do is log the basic data (could my pc on local network do this instead of the added cost and hassle of putting a sd card on the nodemcu?). I am good with excel, and for the time being would be content just to get a log of the data so I can graph and analyze. I plan to add multiple sensors in different rooms.

*What is the easiest/cheapest way to log this data* (keeping in mind I want to build up to 10 sensors)?

other quick easy questions I plan to go on to google right now - please add if you have expert thoughts;
- best way to power these little units
- cheap ways to mount/contain them
- any issues i'll run into with multiple bme280? I see that two can be run on one nodemcu by changing address on one to 0x77, but I suspect I will have a separate nodemcu for each sensor.

Thanks in advance!


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## hot_box_enthusiast (Jun 16, 2020)

Ok I re-read the thread, and learned most of you are doing way more than I am after right now, and I am not sure I saw a "cheap and cheerful" way to log data for my application. 

After posting the last time, I was thinking that perhaps I could just get excel to ping the local ip address of the nodemcu (on wifi) and pull the data at set intervals. I will look into that but would love to hear from any of you.


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## graying.geek (Nov 16, 2020)

I'm just getting started using a raspberry pi with various sensors to monitor my grow room, but would like to leverage the rpi to control temp/humidity and to switch the lights, but am obviously getting into high power territory. Which relays are you folks using to switch high power devices; e.g. heater, lights, etc.


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## shimbob (Nov 16, 2020)

Tasmota-flashed devices work great for controlling AC


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## TrippleDip (Nov 17, 2020)

hot_box_enthusiast said:


> I am not sure I saw a "cheap and cheerful" way to log data for my application.
> 
> After posting the last time, I was thinking that perhaps I could just get excel to ping the local ip address of the nodemcu (on wifi) and pull the data at set intervals. I will look into that but would love to hear from any of you.


In case you haven't figured out a solution yet, I am just having the ucontroller join the network and send a udp packet to broadcast. A script listens on a separate device and writes any data received to file or displays it. There are many udp libraries for android if you want phone display - idk the name of the drag and drop one offhand, where you don't need to know programming. Mit inventor or something.




graying.geek said:


> Which relays are you folks using to switch high power devices; e.g. heater, lights, etc.


Choose normally open (lights) or normally closed (fans) as necessary for failsafing?


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## Timezone (Nov 17, 2020)

graying.geek said:


> I'm just getting started using a raspberry pi with various sensors to monitor my grow room, but would like to leverage the rpi to control temp/humidity and to switch the lights, but am obviously getting into high power territory. Which relays are you folks using to switch high power devices; e.g. heater, lights, etc.


Look back on page one of this thread. I'm still using those/these 30 amp/240Vac relays.

Even though they both have 30A relays, I use the big one with it's own 5Vdc power supply and the cover over the 25 Vac rated connectors, not the smaller one with the 5Vac connectors. I get 5 at a time from AliExpress or Bangood if I don't mind waiting a few weeks for delivery. If I need one right away, there's always Amazon. If I remember correctly, the high output signal from the Pi is 3.3 Vdc. That will be enough to turn these relays on without even though they normally require 5Vdc. I'm using them with both ESP-8266s and 32s, both outputting 3.3 Vdc high signals, and have had no problems. If you do have problems, put a 3.3Vdc to 5Vdc logic level converter in between the Pi and the relay. Good Luck.


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## graying.geek (Nov 18, 2020)

Timezone said:


> Look back on page one of this thread. I'm still using those/these 30 amp/240Vac relays.
> View attachment 4745360
> Even though they both have 30A relays, I use the big one with it's own 5Vdc power supply and the cover over the 25 Vac rated connectors, not the smaller one with the 5Vac connectors. I get 5 at a time from AliExpress or Bangood if I don't mind waiting a few weeks for delivery. If I need one right away, there's always Amazon. If I remember correctly, the high output signal from the Pi is 3.3 Vdc. That will be enough to turn these relays on without even though they normally require 5Vdc. I'm using them with both ESP-8266s and 32s, both outputting 3.3 Vdc high signals, and have had no problems. If you do have problems, put a 3.3Vdc to 5Vdc logic level converter in between the Pi and the relay. Good Luck.


Exactly what I'm looking for -- Thanx!


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## solakani (Nov 18, 2020)

hot_box_enthusiast said:


> next - *DATA LOGGING. Please help me*. I started googling this last night, and see there are many different ways to approach. Onboard sd card storage, more complex web servers etc. For my setup - my nodemcu are in my house on local wifi. all i need to do is log the basic data (could my pc on local network do this instead of the added cost and hassle of putting a sd card on the nodemcu?). I am good with excel, and for the time being would be content just to get a log of the data so I can graph and analyze. I plan to add multiple sensors in different rooms.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Describe your hardware, software and network if you need help with webserver. I would just change the output in the sample code to a html page with a table and scrape it into excel.


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## 4ftRoots (Nov 21, 2020)

PSA. Everyone here should be using Mycodo. Absolutely amazing software and free!


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## pahval (Nov 21, 2020)

4ftRoots said:


> PSA. Everyone here should be using Mycodo. Absolutely amazing software and free!


i sign for the mycodo... its amazing! it has data logging included, here is a link to blog about it:






Automated Hydroponic System Build – Projects | Kyle Gabriel







kylegabriel.com





and to github page:






Mycodo


Documentation for Mycodo, an open source environmental monitoring and regulation system.




kizniche.github.io





very, very capable machine!

im also doing my own automation system, but ill be using nodes with one master, sensor node for air temp and humidity, co2 and leaf temp near canopy, relay node for controlling vents, humidifier and dehumidifier, heater, (ac will keep outer temps lower, so if i need lower temp i just pull one from room), all pid tuned of course, with nutrient doser which would be mix of these ones:











and light node for my custom led lights, with spectrum picker and supplement light management (uvr8 t12 bulbs 15 min on 15 min off for xy duration), ir light after main light for 10 mins for that emmerson effect (and longer main light), all connected to openHab user interface module with data logging for some future ai shit... hope this sparks some ideas and put you on good track! happy growing <3


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## zombievirals (Jan 20, 2021)

Timezone said:


> Fourteen months ago, I got a Raspberry Pi (3 b+) and I started on a quest to automate my grow.
> 
> It was an idea that began as a discussion with a small group of friends at the now defunct Cannabis Culture forum. Topics ranged from the usual temperature and humidity blah blah, to a robotic hand that could roll a joint and "deliver it lit to your lips". When CC went away, I had some time on my hands so I began by myself. I'd had some experience with an Arduino Uno, so my first attempt began there.
> 
> ...


I love this, I've been wanting to do something similar myself due to my love for technology. I'm fairly familiar with computer programming due to my work as a developer, but I'm completely in the dark about Arduino. I do have a Pi I use to emulate old games, but I think it would be better off for this. My eyes will definitely be on this. I did get a pair of bluetooth temperature/hydrgometers in the mail earlier at least, so I'm already getting my foot in the door. My next move is to see if I can set up my old smart phone in the area with them, and maybe even see if the company I bought them from could get me an API key so I can do more with the data.


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## Kervork (Feb 21, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> Those MiFlora look great too. I have an Adafruit soil temp/humidity sensor but it doesnt have BLE onboard so I never got around to using it yet.
> 
> Only question is the first Gearbest site says they are discontinued?


Had some, hated them. Measuring the top couple inches for moisture was next to worthless. Sticking them into the bottom of the pot maybe.


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## 2com (Jun 22, 2021)

Any developments?


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## 2com (Jul 20, 2021)

@Timezone What's happenin with your automation?


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