# Questions about useing Gavitas in tent....



## FamMan (Feb 12, 2015)

Whattup RUI!!! I have a couple questions concerning my first grow that i will be ordering equipment for in the next couple weeks and starting soon there after. I will be using a 5x9 Gorilla tent and I am seriously leaning towards using 2 600/750 DE Gavitas. I have done some research on using these in tents and from what I have read it is possible. However being that these are open air reflectors i know that i have to to change my design around some. I know that i will have to vent the whole tent to keep the heat in check however im not 100% sure on how to do that. I will be growing in my basement (7.9 foot ceilings) that has two sub-level windows. My questions are:

How do i vent a open reflector tent?
Where would my my carbon filter fit into this setup (im guessing before the exhaust fan but not sure if that would be correct in a setup like this)
How large of an intake and exhaust fans would i need to properly vent a tent that size considering those lights are gonna get hot in there?
Do i only need two fans(exhaust and intake)?
Im assuming I will need AC(most likely portable unfortunately cuz i live in a rental) at least during the hot months(I live in southeast CO). Will i need AC all the time or will the fans keep it cool enough when its not 60+ degrees outside?
Im sure I have a few more questions but cant remember them ATM. As always thank you for ur time, advice, and any criticisms. Peace.


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## FamMan (Feb 12, 2015)

One question i forgot....i know there is the Solis Tek DE MH 1000w bulb. Is there a 600w? or at least one that can fit in the 600/750?


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## jijiandfarmgang (Feb 12, 2015)

According to Gavitas room calcuation sheet, which gives a very general estimate,

You should use 4 - 600 watt fixtures or 3 1000s and 12,000 btu's of AC.

I doubt you want to go this route because of height/heat/cost.

Also, I don't know, but I assume these calculations are only based on sq ft of your room size, the smaller the room, the less options you have for ideal light footprint layout.

I would only use gavita/phillips bulbs in their lights.

- Jiji


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## jcommerce (Feb 12, 2015)

I don't know a ton about Gavita other than what I've read (no personal experience), but you would think they'd have remote ballast (so you could keep ballast out of tent or room) and reflector cooling options by now. People sure seem to like them, but I see them more as industrial/commercial grow options with massive amounts of cooling and ventilation. I, personally, wouldn't gamble a whole tent setup just to find that I'm battling heat after spending all that money on their gear, and AC unit and expense to boot. Just my opinion...


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## WeedFreak78 (Feb 13, 2015)

I looked into them, they are designed more for large/commercial type grows. They are designed to be used in banks of multiple lights in high head applications(8'+ceilings). You'd be better off with a single 600 or 1000 and a cool tube/ AC hood in a small tent.

Gavita does have a remote ballast option, i believe it's only the 1000's, though i could be wrong.


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## DirtyMcCurdy (Feb 13, 2015)

I think there are better and cheaper options out there for growing in a tent IMO. Gavitas look awesome but they would be hell to cool in a tent


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## FamMan (Feb 13, 2015)

Thanx for all the responses everyone. Really appreciate it. I guess I will hold off on the gavitas and go with some air cooled fixtures. Anyone have any expierence with Solis tek DE or power box ballast?


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## Sativied (Feb 13, 2015)

FamMan said:


> My questions are:


See this post for answers to some of your questions: http://rollitup.org/t/12-step-program-for-closet-virgins.860295/

Gavitas work fine in tents for thousands of growers, they are often sold as part of a complete tent set here, i.e.
 

1k watt for 5x5, 600 for nearly 4x4. 4x4 can however use a little more than 600, making the 750 such a nice addition. They don't include cooling fans for the simple reason it doesn't need it. Just make sure you have a good matching exhaust at the proper location. Intake is optional. 

I do know _a_ grower who got heat problems, he used 2x 1kW in a 4x8tent, but 5x9 is nearly a perfect fit for 2x 600/750 DE Gavitas. Run them on 600 during hot months. Unless your (intake) temps far exceed the ideal temps in the tent you don't need an AC for just a 2-bulb tent.


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## FamMan (Feb 13, 2015)

Wow thanx sativied! Definitely goin to read that thread. I'm sure I will have more questions then. Thanx for taking the time out to help a noob like me...... Happy growing peeps!!!


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## jcommerce (Feb 13, 2015)

Also, keep in mind that Gavitas are designed for 220+ volts AND, if you want to run the Gavita or Phillips bulb, you'll need a 400V compatible ballast as these DE lamps are 400V. If you're in the USA, you'd better already have 220/240 wired or be prepared to pay an electrician some healthy coin to get you there.

If I were you, I'd go with two, in-line, air cooled 600W hoods. Depending on the air temp of your intake, even that may be challenging in 45 square feet. Another thing to keep in mind is the amperage available to the room where you'll have the tent. 2 X 600W is really more than 1200W with the ballast, etc. Then, if you'll have a veg area in the same room, you'll have more lights, fans, etc. If your room is on the same circuit as, say, the bathroom next door, get ready to be blowing fuses every time the wifey turns on her hair dryer, curling iron, etc. If your room is only on a 20AMP fuse, be ready for problems unless the room is truly dedicated, even then....in this case, then I'd run a single 750W in a large footprint AC reflector and give yourself some room to walk around the plants (i.e. you won't use all 45 sq. feet, more like 35. The bonus is that you'll have one less ballast and reflector to buy and less heat. You'd be surprised what a 750W can produce in a 45sf tent if you do it correctly. If you want the ability to have more light, just get a 1000W dimmable ballast and run it at 750W on hotter days or when temps are spiking and at 1000W when the tent can handle the heat.

Lastly, that's great that Gavita's ballasts run cool. But so do many others in today's e-ballast world...mine are cool/warm to the touch. Nevertheless, the Gavita's are still using single or double ended HPS lamps. That's where the real heat comes from...and it's not just from the lamp's surface heat. rather, it's the energy that the lamp is putting out which is absorbed by every single thing in the tent. Even air cooled reflectors can only help to a certain extent. The ambient air in the tent, even with an AC reflector may be 76F, but put a laser thermometer on your buckets, totes, the floor, the walls, the cords, the fans, and you're more likely to see 80s - 90s.

As always, just my opinion.


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## FamMan (Feb 13, 2015)

Im working on the electrician. Had one lined up but he fell through. I knew I definitely would need one. 
Sounds like I need to do some more research on this. This would be an expensive investment and I need to be sure I'm not setting myself up for failure.
The temps get pretty hot during the summer. Not like Cali or Florida but it gets hot. Thank you for all the useful info Jcommerce! If u had to recommend an air cooled setup what ballast would you go with?


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## jcommerce (Feb 13, 2015)

FamMan said:


> Thank you for all the useful info Jcommerce! If u had to recommend an air cooled setup what ballast would you go with?


No problem. If you've already bought the 9' x 5' tent, cool. But if you're still in the market, I'd go for a square tent. 5' will be pretty narrow once your canopy spreads out. I've had numerous tents and my latest is a Gorilla 8' x 8'. I went with this for numerous reasons, not the least of which is the ability to move around the sides of the canopy. Sure, they have back doors and what not, but the back side of mine is against a wall, so the doors have no use until the day I put it in a larger room. Gorillas are more expensive, for certain, but they are much stronger than a lot of others out there, the poles and the material itself. They also come with a height extension kit for if and when you have a taller room.

Back to your question about a ballast, I'd certainly get one that doesn't have an internal cooling fan. Not only is it the most likely part to fail, but it also allows dust to enter the unit (just like a CPU tower). You will also want dimmable option...I like to ease my plants in from their pre-veg room with a day or two at 600, a few days at 750, and 1000 with the switch to 12/12. Another thing to factor is if it's 120/240 compatible, can fire MH & HPS, and has dual outlets for different plug types. I personally like the Phantom series (the new version 2 look really nice and have some upgrades) and they are among the most reliable. I have a Phantom 1 and it's been great...I was pretty bummed when the 2s came out not long after I got my 1 series. They are dimmable and have dual fuse resets, no fans, and they have dual sockets for the different brand plugs. Lumateks are nice and pretty reliable, but I've heard bad things about their customer service. SolisTek are apparently quite reliable as well. The older Galaxy models were nice (no fan), but the new switchable's do have fans, but if I had to get one with a fan, it would be a Galaxy. The Hortiliux series, I'm sure, are very nice, but damn expensive and I don't believe they are dimmable. Powerbox has a new line of ballasts that run 120/240, and can fire MH, HPS, and DE lamps...and they are a great company (I've used their control boxes and everything is top of the line). I can't speak to the Gavitas, but their Digistars do look nice.

If I had to combine value, quality, and reliability, I'd probably go: 1) Phantom II, 2) Lumatek, 3) Powerbox, 4) SolisTek 5) Galaxy fanless, 6) Quantum (has fan). I'd stay away from ExtraSun, Digilume, and NanoLux based on reading about them and hearing from many a different shop owner...even the ones that carry them.

For reflectors, I have the old Raptor 8s and they don't have hinges, which means cleaning the glass, changing bulbs, etc is a bitch, especially if you have ducting (you have to reach in through the duct tube because the glass gasket is not designed to be opened. I also have the Sunlight Supply XXXLs and they do have hinges and safety cables. The new Raptors apparently have hinges and safety cables. These two reflectors have among, if not, the largest light footprints on the market.

For carbon filtration, I would never buy anything other than a Phresh filter. MUCH smaller, lighter, and longer lasting that the competition. Been using them since 2012 and never looked back. Their Hyperfans kick ass too. Super small in size, but very powerful (there are comparison tests on YouTube), and they come with a speed controller so you can slow them down to 35%. I run them around 40 - 45% and it's plenty. I'd used several different brands before and they never cut the muster.

Just so you know I'm not blowing smoke up your ass, I've averaging 2.5 units off of a single 1000W (on a light rail with T5 side lighting) in this 8' x 8'. I made some modifications and I'm hoping for 3 on the next run.


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## chuck estevez (Feb 13, 2015)

jcommerce said:


> I don't know a ton about Gavita other than what I've read (*no personal experience*), but you would think they'd have *remote ballast* (so you could keep ballast out of tent or room) and *reflector cooling options by now*. People sure seem to like them, but I see them more as industrial/commercial grow options with massive amounts of cooling and ventilation. I, personally, wouldn't gamble a whole tent setup just to find that I'm battling heat after spending all that money on their gear, and AC unit and expense to boot. Just my opinion...


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## chuck estevez (Feb 13, 2015)

AND, GAVITA now comes in 120/240 volt options, JUST SAYIN!!!


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## jcommerce (Feb 13, 2015)

^^^ @chuck estevez - I've seen that Monster Garden vid. It's a Sunlight Supply reflector with a Lumatek ballast. Just curious as to what that has to do with Gavita?? Nice to know they're 110/240V compatible though.

Okay, in doing some research, I just found out that, unbeknownst to me, I indeed *HAVE HAD PERSONAL* experience with Gavita. The Humboldt Lighting Micromole ballasts are just Gavita Digistars, renamed by Humboldt. Gavita was manufacturing them for Humboldt, but then Gavita just took over selling them directly. (I sure thought they looked VERY similar when I saw pictures...LOL). We have 8 of the 1000 watt Micromoles in my 8000 watt room. They are very good, cool running ballasts, but we did have one fail after 7 or 8 runs. We were able to get a replacement from the retailer.

Here they are in our 8000 room.


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## Curly333 (Feb 13, 2015)

The sun system AC/DE is sweet hood. It's made in Woodenville, WA. The only thing the hood has to do with Gavita is you can run gavita double ended bulbs in this hood. That's where the DE in the name comes from. The advantage to these hoods in a tent is that they are air cooled. That's the AC part of the name. There aren't many hood available right now that are double ended and air cooled. If temps might be a problem and you want to go double ended look in this hood. I'm running 4 in a 9x9 guerrilla tent. Its specail


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## jcommerce (Feb 13, 2015)

Curly333 said:


> If temps might be a problem and you want to go double ended look in this hood. I'm running 4 in a 9x9 guerrilla tent. Its specail


FOUR of these hoods in a 9' x 9' ??!!?? What wattage and why would you ever need that many hoods in a 9' x 9' ?? Seems like a complete waste of money for equipment and power if you ask me.


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## WeedFreak78 (Feb 14, 2015)

jcommerce said:


> Also, keep in mind that Gavitas are designed for 220+ volts AND, if you want to run the Gavita or Phillips bulb, you'll need a 400V compatible ballast as these DE lamps are 400V. If you're in the USA, you'd better already have 220/240 wired or be prepared to pay an electrician some healthy coin to get you there.


From the way I understand it the Gavitas were originally designed for commercial op's, thats why the bulbs are rated at 400V, The ballast takes in 120/240 and outputs it at 400V. Any house in USA has 240V, it's no different than running a 120v line, Won't cost much to run a 240V line, I just did a 30' run myself for under $100.


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## Cowboy Kahlil (Feb 14, 2015)

Monster Gardens had the Gavita rated as best. with Solis Tek and Phantom DE second best. However, one large grower I know is completely sold on Nanolux and likes it better than Gavita.


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## a senile fungus (Feb 15, 2015)

So... If I made up a 5x5 box would I just put the gavita right up on the ceiling? Or can it get closer than that? Let's say the box is 5x5x8.

Or fuck it, let's build a box around the light. What are the ideal specs? I think I might bite the bullet and get one if they're really all that awesome. It'll pay for itself eventually...


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## Sativied (Feb 15, 2015)

a senile fungus said:


> So... If I made up a 5x5 box would I just put the gavita right up on the ceiling? Or can it get closer than that?


The common rule here is 10cm ( 4inch ) distance for every 100 watt hps. Works from 250w to gavita 1k-watters. 60cm for 600watt, 1meter (40inch) for 1kW. 4inches less is doable, lower than that is above all unnecessary. 

Coincidentally, that forum admin now working for gavita posted here a few times too and addressed two issues mentioned:


whazzup said:


> sorry? 9 ft? 90 cm comes closer for the 1000W, and they will never give you a square footprint.


Search the username on some other large grow forums for a lot more info/facts.


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## Sativied (Feb 15, 2015)

I just checked a few local grow journals to make sure but yes, it's common to just hang it on the ceiling and not care about the distance. Some start from seed... no additional stretch cause plenty of light even up to 5 feet and plants just grow closer getting more intense/dense light higher up so it all works out. I'd run into height problems with my hydro setup though...

Sannie, from sannie seeds, who owns that forum that whazzup is/was admin at, mentioned this when they tested the 1000DE in 2010 already: "To be honest I should mentioned that it's advisable to use a space of 1.50x1.50m (5x5') with this 1000 watter but I'm very stubborn and like a lot on small spaces and then this is a challenge ". And then went on to test it in 4x4, which plenty of people still do too, but then they typically don't boost it to 1150 or run it at 825w. Same thing with a typical larger setup, 4x 1k watt in a 240cmx240cm (neatly 8x8feet) tent not boosted, or in a 300x300cm (over 9x9) boosted.

My comment about 5x5 being perfect for the 1k watter is based on picking between 4x4 and 5x5 tents or closets. If you can buy a 4.5x6' tent or build your own custom closet about that size it's probably worth it especially if you plant to stick with rectangular hps bulbs (it's not specific to gavita). If you hang the lamp in the middle however and got the typical 4-9 plants the light would on average per plant be divided in a similar way in 5x5.

Edit, those last parts where meant for a different thread, the 2000w in a 5x5...


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## a senile fungus (Feb 15, 2015)

Sativied said:


> I just checked a few local grow journals to make sure but yes, it's common to just hang it on the ceiling and not care about the distance. Some start from seed... no additional stretch cause plenty of light even up to 5 feet and plants just grow closer getting more intense/dense light higher up so it all works out. I'd run into height problems with my hydro setup though...
> 
> Sannie, from sannie seeds, who owns that forum that whazzup is/was admin at, mentioned this when they tested the 1000DE in 2010 already: "To be honest I should mentioned that it's advisable to use a space of 1.50x1.50m (5x5') with this 1000 watter but I'm very stubborn and like a lot on small spaces and then this is a challenge ". And then went on to test it in 4x4, which plenty of people still do too, but then they typically don't boost it to 1150 or run it at 825w. Same thing with a typical larger setup, 4x 1k watt in a 240cmx240cm (neatly 8x8feet) tent not boosted, or in a 300x300cm (over 9x9) boosted.
> 
> My comment about 5x5 being perfect for the 1k watter is based on picking between 4x4 and 5x5 tents or closets. If you can buy a 4.5x6' tent or build your own custom closet about that size it's probably worth it especially if you plant to stick with rectangular hps bulbs (it's not specific to gavita). If you hang the lamp in the middle however and got the typical 4-9 plants the light would on average per plant be divided in a similar way in 5x5.



Wow, thank you for checking for me. I searched the name but lots of stuff in dutch it seems...

I've found a new place to grow, and its a horse barn, specifically in a stall or two. So, I'm going to be building my own rooms inside of the stalls and going from there. I can build the space around the lights, and will probably have 4 or 5 plants underneath it. 

I was originally planning on going full out vert and doing a 4plant vert scrog with a 315w CMH and 600/1000w HPS hung stacked in the center. I would veg the plants under horizontal HID to around 2.5-3ft then they'd get vertical lighting to flower.

But now I'm wondering if I can fit as many big plants underneath the gavita and just not have to worry about the "vertical" aspect because of the shear intensity/penetration ability of the unit.

@OP sorry for the hijack but I think you got a couple great answers. I'm happy to picked sativied's brain for a moment and maybe you can also benefit from our dialogue. 

Sativied, if you had a fresh start how would you do it? Moderate budget in mind, I am considering gavitas after all...


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## Dr.Pecker (Feb 15, 2015)

This is all I could think about when i was reading this thread sorry no help here.


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## Sativied (Feb 15, 2015)

a senile fungus said:


> Wow, thank you for checking for me. I searched the name but lots of stuff in dutch it seems....


He posted good info without the 'h' in the username at icmag. Probably also at opengrow.



a senile fungus said:


> Sativied, if you had a fresh start how would you do it? Moderate budget in mind, I am considering gavitas after all...


Will be making one myself sooner or later, I got a gavita hood (tripplestar, pretty neat allowing for different beam width settings basically but not good enough for 4x4, more for 3x4) and use a phillips magnetic ballast. I think I will got for the new 600/750 series, need to keep it small to keep a low profile (rental, electricity use...)

I wouldn't dare to really make a comparison with vertical growing, but one of the reasons gavita got so popular (in greenhouses, i.e. professional growers) is because their systems did a better job with phillips bulbs than phillips did itself, especially when it comes to penetration. It genuinely a classic, people being surprised with how low the hard buds go.

It's past bed time for me, I'll leave this thread open and post a few classic examples from 1-4 bulb "bread growers" tomorrow. One of the better examples I've seen here of similar grows is from @AlphaPhase. Once you got buds side-to-side like that the only way to increase yield is grow 'deeper' colas. You mentioned 4-5 plants, which is actually quite common here for 1k watt because 5 plants is sort of decriminalized. Many growers have a tent or closet at multiple friends who just water the plants. It's how many coffeeshops here are supplied so they try to push the most out of 5 plants while still doing 5 or more cycles a year. They don't pull 1.5gpw though, that's rare, but 2lbs/1gpw is not uncommon especially with strains like the popular amnesia haze that is suitable to grow tall colas.

This thread sums up many of the basics, it's very rough, but a common starting point on this side of the pond where space is scarce: http://rollitup.org/t/12-step-program-for-closet-virgins.860295/#post-11311162


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## Dr.Pecker (Feb 15, 2015)

Sativied said:


> He posted good info without the 'h' in the username at icmag. Probably also at opengrow.
> 
> Will be making one myself sooner or later, I got a gavita hood (tripplestar, pretty neat allowing for different beam width settings basically but not good enough for 4x4, more for 3x4) and use a phillips magnetic ballast. I think I will got for the new 600/750 series, need to keep it small to keep a low profile (rental, electricity use...)
> 
> ...


Is sannie and crew doing ok man? Any recommendations as far as strains? I'm going to crack a pack of caramel candy kush the pics they have aren't very good I'll see if I can get some better ones up.


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## Cowboy Kahlil (Feb 16, 2015)

I'm getting plenty confused in this thread (but I'm a newb, so that's easy). I thought I read elsewhere that DE bulbs are NOT supposed to be directly air-cooled, as that limits what they put out, so indirect cooling should be used on the DE Gavita setups.

Did I miss something?


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## Sativied (Feb 16, 2015)

Cowboy Kahlil said:


> I'm getting plenty confused in this thread (but I'm a newb, so that's easy). I thought I read elsewhere that DE bulbs are NOT supposed to be directly air-cooled, as that limits what they put out, so indirect cooling should be used on the DE Gavita setups.
> 
> Did I miss something?


The fact they are not supposed to be directly air-cooled doesn't mean they need to be indirectly cooled. And yes, running at a certain temperature range is makes a difference in output and even skews some tests. 

I have actually never seen a cooltube irl. Been going to growshops for decades. A common mistake I see in these forums is the lack of a proper located exhaust. Warm air rises, with a proper exhaust (1m3/h per 1watt hps) and intake it doesn't bother the plants.


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## Sativied (Feb 16, 2015)

Dr.Pecker said:


> Is sannie and crew doing ok man? Any recommendations as far as strains? I'm going to crack a pack of caramel candy kush the pics they have aren't very good I'll see if I can get some better ones up.


I don't really know, the crew has changed a little over the years. That admin now working for gavita, new admins, new mods, I haven't been active there for over a year. Sannie and that admin used to post good stuff but aren't that active anymore, and I got the impression they care more now about opengrow than their dutch forum.

The dutch forums are similar yet different in a couple of ways. Can't post anything, whether it's a question, comment or journal, without getting tons of advice. It's like a match, a competition of who can point out most thing that went wrong or will go wrong. They always find something to bitch about. Replies usually start with "you should...." followed by a lot of parroting and unasked advice. A real herd mentality. It's not just forums though, growshops too. That works bad when it comes to myths etc., but has led to rather standardized grow setups and setting up a decent environment makes letting the plant grow bud rather easy.

I have no recommendations from Sannie strains, well, except maybe Sugar Punch, really liked that one, especially the SSH pheno (but sweeter than SSH). Shackzilla is popular for pretty much the same reason, a good ssh cross.

I've always considered sannie's seeds to be good reliable stuff for beginners, it's not something I can recommend to those who want to run something more special/exclusive. I've noticed over the years clearly that Sannie isn't just all about making money but also about keeping customers happy so by itself not a bad choice at all.





^^1000watter gavita in 4x4 tent. Plus shows nicely how many of the forum-growers here grow, Sannie's organic style.
@a senile fungus: I'll post some more pics later but this video shows the typical setup nicely (well, except the co2... and the airplane water )

Also shows THE difference of grows in US and NL, timing the switch to 12/12, to prevent doing it too late, is part of that basic parroted advice. Very common in journals "when are you going to switch to 12/12?" "have you switched to 12/12 yet" "you should switch to 12/12" "you are way too late switching to 12/12, now it will get too full and you'll get more fluff than colas". Pretty sure I don't have journal there where it's not debated. While it's true growing to full maturity or months can lead to more potent bud, it's not worth 4-8 weeks of vegging, and becomes irrelevant with clones. H&G specifically released an N booster for vegging for the US market with a very similar explanation, ya'll grow trees, fill up the space, and then switch to 12/12 while we do most of the vegging during transition. Same reason for scrogs often not turning out as nicely as I see them in NL.


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## Sativied (Feb 16, 2015)

Sativied said:


> and post a few classic examples from 1-4 bulb "bread growers" tomorrow.


Images are watermarked but dutch forum, no competition for riu so didn't bother removing it...
9x amnesia haze under 1000watt gavita, he ran eventually 600w because plants got too tall, yielded over 700gr
  

5x African Pineapple Queen, grow from "Krasi", mod at that forum now, supercrop master. 1000watt gavita, 1500m3h exhaust, 2000m3h filter (using that large allows for dimming the exhaust). And yes, freaking seedling under 1000watt DE gavita (surely dimmed at the point and no recommendable imo, more efficient to start under T8/T5/Fluo or mh.
 not a great run, better example, same grower, different tent:

-Secret Jardin Intense 120 Mammoth tent 240x120x215cm (*8x4* feet roughly).
-*1x* Gavita 1000watt DE.
-Intake 1500m3, exhaust 2500m3 icm 2500m3 Phresh filter. (again note the focus on ventilation).
8 plants, so 4 on each side, Uruzghani Kush, fast and low yielding strain but 8x4 filled...
     

More in next post, can't attach more images...


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## Sativied (Feb 16, 2015)

yeah obviously not fed probably, had rot too, but damn.. massive yield.

5x amnesia haze in tent:


From a girl, 5x5 tent with gavita 1000 and a gavita plasma. 20x jackberry plants, 1100gram (hey.. first time gavita in tent... not bad at all).
 Yes, fog. Designed to run in very humid greenhouses...
 day 44:

750w gavita in 4x4, ran out of space, dimmed but still nearly 600gram:


5 amnesia haze under 1000watt gavita in 4x4 tent, 970gram dry (dry and ready for sale, none of that wishfulthinking dry)
 Bulb eventually at only 24inch from plants, plants 100cm (3 feet tall, 80% of that is hard buds).  yellow harvest... they call it "ripe".

The highest yielding growers here, growers who've been pushing out 6 even 7 cycles a year for years, at multiple locations, seem to agree that horizontally, in a tent/closet, 1.2-1.3 is a sort of realistic maximum. 1.5gpw is... well, given the right strain (hard dense nugs, colas that fill in from top to bottom , perfect bud site spacing and veg length... Just aim for 1gpw, be happy if you get that or more, look for improvements if you get less. If you get 0.5gpw or so, see that closet virgin thread I linked to earlier.


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## Sativied (Feb 16, 2015)

Ok one more...

Old:  -> grow, harvest, sell, make money, buy new:
New: 
 <-controller, allows them to dim automatically when it gets to hot (like over 86f)




^^Strawberry Diesel. Did produce 5kilo dry (5x 1000w gavita according to post, I see 6...), but cappy budstructure, shaved clean for coffeeshop (1gram bags requires good bag appeal with mini buds) only 3.3kilo.

And again get a proper exhaust. Once you got a decent HPS lighting setup, that's the most important item. Better get overcapacity and dim most of the year (except hot months).


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## Sativied (Feb 16, 2015)

Good exhaust for single bulb setup of typically 600watt or less, company that makes the original is Ruck in Germany. I got one of these with thermostat, 4 speeds, chooses it based on temp. Some clones/knockoffs (in europe) are known to fail or even burn. Downside is noise.


Good exhaust for high end setups with 1k watter(s), snail house torin:
 I got one in a metal box in my closet for a year already, 1200m3h, not connected yet cause it's overkill..., "softbox" prevents snitching neighbors from hearing it. Gets noisy, hums, when dimmed with cheap dimmers.

There are exceptions, but generally fans that look like the following are crap and not suitable. They don't create the pressure the first one above does and usually don't have the capacity the larger snails offer.

With these bathroom thingies being the worst:


The diameter, 6" or 8" doesn't mean as much as is implied in threads here. That's not the spec you should care about.


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## Cowboy Kahlil (Feb 16, 2015)

Wondered about fans, especially these:


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## FamMan (Feb 16, 2015)

Wow. Thank you all for so many replies and useful info. I am a cook and working in two restaurants ATM and i didn't have many opportunities to respond much this weekend....but i read them all. I really am grateful and appreciative to you all(especially SATIVIED and JCOMMERCE ....seems like you guys really got this down and im sure are producing some fire dank). 
After reading all the responses and doing more research.....im not sure i want to go with the Gavitas. They seem like awesome lights however I dont think cooling a whole tent is the smartest option for me considering this is my 1st run. Summer seems to get hot here and i want to give myself the best chance for success. Down the road maybe.
So I am doing my research now on a powerbox 1000w hd ballast and the ac/de reflector. What do you think about that combo? Still gives me the DE but i can air cool the fixture(i know.....not the lamp). I have a few questions.
1. Can a well built DE lamp/ballast(not a Gavita) still get as good of results as the Gavita? I know they are number one...but im wondering if its the double ended technology that gets them the great results or is it somehing else?
2. I know the powerbox switch box is made in USA.....Are their ballast too?
3. Anyone have any experience with powerbox ballast(or anything negative to say about them)? Anyone running Double Ended bulbs with them?
Thanx again everyone. Peace.


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## Sativied (Feb 16, 2015)

FamMan said:


> 1. Can a well built DE lamp/ballast(not a Gavita) still get as good of results as the Gavita? I know they are number one...but im wondering if its the double ended technology that gets them the great results or is it somehing else?


They probably are number 1, overall, but that doesn't mean everything in their line is the best out there, at least, I think so. Like I said in one of the posts they are amongst others popular for doing a better job at running the DE than the creators of the DE (phillips) (because of their fixtures, ballast+hood), BUT that doesn't mean they are the only one. If I remember correctly a sun lec hood provided a better par output on a 36x36" footprint than a gavita at growershouse.com (see test and review section there, no idea how reliable, but seems proper).

Perhaps an option is to get a HortiStar HR 96 Miro (the hood from gavita) separately, that's partly their strength but again, that sun lec de system sure looks good on paper.

All that said, I can definitely see the problem if you live in hot summers. But as some pointed out, they come with remote ballasts too. People tend to get a little stronger exhaust with a gavita, but it's not the reason for a good exhaust in the first place.


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## Sativied (Feb 16, 2015)

Cowboy Kahlil said:


> Wondered about fans, especially these:


Like I said with my pics of those inline fans, there are exceptions. That 710cfm version of the hyper fan from Phresh (I use their filters) is 1200m3h and could be a very nice fit for a 1kW hps.


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## a mongo frog (Feb 16, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Ok one more...
> 
> Old: View attachment 3352695 -> grow, harvest, sell, make money, buy new:
> New: View attachment 3352697
> ...


is there an A/C used in lets say using 6 of those or is it total ventilation system? and at 24 inches can 1000 watts be fully used? and some one was telling me at running even less then a 1000 watts he was seeing better lighting then his previous 1000 watt set ups. would you say that is true. sometimes its hard to believe gardeners around my area. every one seems to shoot their mouth off about this and that.


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## Sativied (Feb 16, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> is there an A/C used in lets say using 6 of those or is it total ventilation system?


For 4 or more it''s not uncommon to have an A/C unit. The "Opticlimate" is a popular one for larger setups, does it all.


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## a mongo frog (Feb 16, 2015)

Sativied said:


> For 4 or more it''s not uncommon to have an A/C unit. The "Opticlimate" is a popular one for larger setups, does it all.


thats fucking boss dude. thanks for that. have you seen one in action? and that can handle lets say a 4 burner or 8 burner? wow man. thats fucking cool. and here i bought a 3 ton split system. going to google the price now on those.


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## Sativied (Feb 16, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> and at 24 inches can 1000 watts be fully used?


That seemed to be the case in that example but no generally that would be a good reason to dim it. I don't want to downplay the heat issue, just saying it's workable. Best (for a typical 5x5 surface) is roughly 90cm / 36" or a little more.



a mongo frog said:


> and some one was telling me at running even less then a 1000 watts he was seeing better lighting then his previous 1000 watt set ups. would you say that is true. sometimes its hard to believe gardeners around my area. every one seems to shoot their mouth off about this and that.


As I mentioned in another thread, the local forums here are full with myths and parroting so I get the shooting their mouth off, but it's a classic, and it being so consistent (people noticing significant improvements) is why it's so popular. Usually not for beginners cause it's pricey, but once you grow for money... It would certainly not surprise me if 825w gavita >= 1000watt average hps setup. It's a few years old, from a test from 2011, but the data showed clearly that after a year use a gavita and philips DE 1kW still outperform a new average cheapo hps.[/QUOTE]


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## Sativied (Feb 16, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> thats fucking boss dude. thanks for that. have you seen one in action? and that can handle lets say a 4 burner or 8 burner? wow man. thats fucking cool. and here i bought a 3 ton split system. going to google the price now on those.


Not in real life, I've seen them at growshops and in the local forums. 4x600watt used to be the safe max here to remain stealth, so the growers that do post online are usually the smaller ones who don't need it. Yet is has been mentioned 2170 times at the local grow forums according to google. That's how popular it is. They also tested several models, many growshops offer test gear to review online. I've done root riot plugs once - lucky me... I've never seen another A/C being use though, not irl, not online, not in growshops.

A common one is the 3500 serie, which is for 6x600 watt or 3x900.

The 6000 is for 10x600watt so 6x1000watt too.Probably around $4K.


Like the gavita setups, not a toy, professional horticulture equipment.


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## a mongo frog (Feb 16, 2015)

i wonder how much water it uses and how much one needs to due away with. too much water usage here id have someone knocking on my door. not sure if they've even lifted water restrictions here or not.


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## jcommerce (Feb 16, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Like I said with my pics of those inline fans, there are exceptions. That 710cfm version of the hyper fan from Phresh (I use their filters) is 1200m3h and could be a very nice fit for a 1kW hps.


This is exactly what I'm using and I'm running the Hyper at around 40% in winter and 45% in Summer. At 100%, it's ridiculous.


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## Sativied (Feb 16, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> i wonder how much water it uses and how much one needs to due away with. too much water usage here id have someone knocking on my door. not sure if they've even lifted water restrictions here or not.


Good question... ideally you got a pool or w/e outside and use a pump to recirculate.

A quick check shows the 6000 (for 6x 1kw) uses 2-4L per min... roughly a gallon on the high end. They say: "on a normal tapwater connection you can attach 45-60kW in units (so for up to 60x 1kW bulbs...) and double the amount if you run 12/12.

I'm not sure what the common method here is for smaller growers who do use it. It's doable to suck in air at room temp most of the year so usually a good exhaust does most. We all go that problem of someone possibly knocking on the door though but haven't heard of raids because high water bills yet. Stealth is one of the reasons it's popular, no heat to exhaust out a window allowing easy detection with heath cameras.

You can hide the bulb enough (with good reflection and walls) but the exhaust needs to go somewhere. Some blow out under the rooftiles to spread it out. We barely get a month snow, but spread out over 3-4 months. Another classic:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/02/06/dutch-police-reveal-a-simple-way-to-tell-if-your-neighbor-is-illegally-growing-pot/


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## jcommerce (Feb 16, 2015)

Sativied said:


> View attachment 3352934
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/02/06/dutch-police-reveal-a-simple-way-to-tell-if-your-neighbor-is-illegally-growing-pot/


LOL, I saw this on Huff Post the other day (the snow-less roof). I was surprised to see it was in the NL of all places.


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## a senile fungus (Feb 16, 2015)

Thank you so much @Sativied

You've been very helpful and have supplied tons of info in this thread.

I'm gonna let it brew in my mind for a while, and I may return with more questions.


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## Sativied (Feb 16, 2015)

jcommerce said:


> LOL, I saw this on Huff Post the other day (the snow-less roof). I was surprised to see it was in the NL of all places.


It's such a cliche really, I had a neighbor nearby who grew in his garage... till some snitching neighbor noticed the missing snow... (lots of anti-grower propaganda, we're firehazards and criminals...) usually people who are blinded by money or got sloppy. But roughly 10% of the estimated amount of grows (50K, I think that number is very naive) is raided per year so for many it's a matter of time. And that's why many including me keep it small so the fine is too.


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## DirtyMcCurdy (Feb 16, 2015)

FamMan said:


> Whattup RUI!!! I have a couple questions concerning my first grow that i will be ordering equipment for in the next couple weeks and starting soon there after. I will be using a 5x9 Gorilla tent and I am seriously leaning towards using 2 600/750 DE Gavitas. I have done some research on using these in tents and from what I have read it is possible. However being that these are open air reflectors i know that i have to to change my design around some. I know that i will have to vent the whole tent to keep the heat in check however im not 100% sure on how to do that. I will be growing in my basement (7.9 foot ceilings) that has two sub-level windows. My questions are:
> 
> How do i vent a open reflector tent?
> Where would my my carbon filter fit into this setup (im guessing before the exhaust fan but not sure if that would be correct in a setup like this)
> ...


I think you'd be better off buying something more budget friendly, unless thats not a concern. Gavita's are made for Professional greenhouses. Buying a Gavaita would only marginally help your yeild, if at all, compared to a more economical ligh setup. Don't think just cause they are top quality that it will be that much of a difference.


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## jijiandfarmgang (Feb 17, 2015)

DirtyMcCurdy said:


> I think you'd be better off buying something more budget friendly, unless thats not a concern. Gavita's are made for Professional greenhouses. Buying a Gavaita would only marginally help your yeild, if at all, compared to a more economical ligh setup. Don't think just cause they are top quality that it will be that much of a difference.


Agreed.

If anyone recommends Gavita, its me. However sometimes I forget peoples goals, and financial/growing stance. Comparing the Gavita to a decent digital ballast and HPS bulb, we are talking maybe %10 difference. To me that’s a lot, in someone else’s shoes it could matter much less.

Most people could probably benefit more from dialling in their growing environment better.

- Jiji


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## FamMan (Feb 17, 2015)

You all are amazing!!!! So informative. This site rocks!!!! BTW thanks Jiji for commenting.


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## Cowboy Kahlil (Feb 17, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> Agreed.
> 
> If anyone recommends Gavita, its me. However sometimes I forget peoples goals, and financial/growing stance. Comparing the Gavita to a decent digital ballast and HPS bulb, we are talking maybe %10 difference. To me that’s a lot, in someone else’s shoes it could matter much less.
> 
> ...



With that in mind, what's the next level? Avoiding ballasts with an inboard fan? Choosing another DE brand?

I figure to be at Gavita soon enough, but for my first run, I was trying to determine what #2 was.


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## Sativied (Feb 17, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> i wonder how much water it uses and how much one needs to due away with. too much water usage here id have someone knocking on my door. not sure if they've even lifted water restrictions here or not.




"opgenomen vermogen" = actually wattage use
"verwarming" = heating

Main reason I'm posting this is the note at the bottom:
"water usage only during cooling. Use depends on the tapwater temp and is based on the Dutch climate."

I can definitely see that could become an issue in warmer climates. It's not THAT cold here though, but also doesn't get very hot except for maybe a month (and like the month of snow spread out over 3-4 months). Not sure how much it really matters with 6x1000 in a closed room.

One guy with the 15000 series uses a "vaporizer cooler" (huge, so is the OC 15000 though).


The same question, about wateruse has been asked here several times and there's never a simple answer. It depends on several factors. It's also sometimes dismissed as irrelevant because while the water usage can be high people get a lot of stealth in return. It's also illegal to dump warm water... thermic pollution... perhaps aerate and give some to the plants.


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## jijiandfarmgang (Feb 17, 2015)

Cowboy Kahlil said:


> With that in mind, what's the next level? Avoiding ballasts with an inboard fan? Choosing another DE brand?
> 
> I figure to be at Gavita soon enough, but for my first run, I was trying to determine what #2 was.


This is all opinion. But all the DE stuff is expensive as of now, and it can't be air cooled. Personally I haven't been impressed enough with other DE competitors yet, to purchase their gear.

So second choice would be standard digital ballast, I like the ones that aren't fan cooled, some lumatek, solis tek, etc. With a hortilux or ushio bulb.

People seem to have their favorite ballast but as long as they work I can't tell the difference.

If your in a pinch a cheapo bulb will get you by.

- Jiji

Edit - btw there were a few bad egg digital ballasts when they were first coming out, and some cheapo ones have emf problems.


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## DirtyMcCurdy (Feb 17, 2015)

Cowboy Kahlil said:


> With that in mind, what's the next level? Avoiding ballasts with an inboard fan? Choosing another DE brand?
> 
> I figure to be at Gavita soon enough, but for my first run, I was trying to determine what #2 was.


So this is your first attempt at growing? If so, anything "high end" should be the last of your concerns. Learn how to grow, detect/correct deficiences and perfect your environment first. Pushing your plants with maximum light while not exctly knowing what your doing will end unsuccessfully.

And I don't know what this whole #1 and #2 stuff is? A lot of things can work. There's a guy on here by the name RM3 that grows killer looking bud using nothing but T5's! Your worried too much about one aspect of your environment. Focus on the whole picture.


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## Cannasutraorganics (Feb 18, 2015)

Get the Boss hood. Same reflector as the AC/DE without the air cooled case. It's square and gives the most even footprint. Get the Digilux DE bulb, it's brighter and cheaper. Use a good digital ballast. Or get the AC/DE. It pulls heat from the reflectors back. Not cooling the light. Don't dim the bulbs unless you have to for heat. Dimming bulbs on DE hoods takes them out of their proper heat range and lowers lumens. Both of these hoods can be recessed in most ceilings between the beams.


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## Cannasutraorganics (Feb 18, 2015)

I've ran Gavati and boss and AC/DE. Gavati has worse footprint. And it's not square. The other two are designed for square gardens.


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## Cowboy Kahlil (Feb 18, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> This is all opinion.
> 
> - Jiji
> 
> Edit - btw there were a few bad egg digital ballasts when they were first coming out, and some cheapo ones have emf problems.


I figured I'd look for fan-less ones with a 5 yr guarantee, for my first small grow, then consider ramping up to Gavitas once I have a more suitable grow space. Thanks Jiji.


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## jcommerce (Feb 18, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> This is all opinion. But all the DE stuff is expensive as of now, and it can't be air cooled. Personally I haven't been impressed enough with other DE competitors yet, to purchase their gear.


Edit: I didn't notice canna already addressed the part about the cooling of the AC/DE.

Not debating with Jiji, just putting it out to the world...the AC/DE hood is air cooled, but the air doesn't run across the lamp, just over the reflector insert, so they can be run w/o the glass/lens. But, I agree...overpriced and too much hype around DE right now. While DE grow gear is "new" and the "latest/greatest" to the grow world, they've been around for a long time. I ran DEs on my reef tanks starting well over a decade ago. While they did a good job, I actually preferred the mogul based lamps. Moguls can be directly cooled whereas DEs cannot due to their casings. I also don't like replacing DEs, it can be nerve racking. The ceramic bases can crack (I've had it happen) and the bulbs can shatter...it was very lame seeing all that shit fall into my reef tank and have to go fishing for it. This also forced me to have to buy a new mount for the lamp, which was not easy with the reef MH/T5 reflector I had.


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## CC Dobbs (Feb 18, 2015)

You could keep the gavitas outside the tent and use mirrors to reflect the light into the tent. Heat stays out and the light goes in. I use this technique all the time and get about a pound.


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## jcommerce (Feb 18, 2015)

CC Dobbs said:


> You could keep the gavitas outside the tent and use mirrors to reflect the light into the tent. Heat stays out and the light goes in. I use this technique all the time and get about a pound.


Whuhhh?? Responses on this one should be interesting.


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## CC Dobbs (Feb 18, 2015)

jcommerce said:


> Whuhhh?? Responses on this one should be interesting.


I know, I can't wait.


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## jcommerce (Feb 18, 2015)

CC Dobbs said:


> I know, I can't wait.


Pics?


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## CC Dobbs (Feb 18, 2015)

jcommerce said:


> Pics?


It is a proprietary method that I teach as part of my consulting business.


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## Sativied (Feb 18, 2015)

CC Dobbs said:


> I know, I can't wait.


You should use white chalk instead of mirrors for better diffusion.


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## CC Dobbs (Feb 18, 2015)

Sativied said:


> You should use white chalk instead of mirrors for better diffusion.


I have a unique talcum powder dust that is kept constantly in motion by the use of induction fans and hover ties. This is similar but better than chalk.


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## jcommerce (Feb 18, 2015)

CC Dobbs said:


> You could keep the gavitas outside the tent and use mirrors to reflect the light into the tent. Heat stays out and the light goes in. I use this technique all the time and get about a pound.


Okay, okay....I didn't catch the sarcasm the first time. Got the joke.


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## Sativied (Feb 19, 2015)

Sativied said:


> but it's a classic, and it being so consistent (people noticing significant improvements) is why it's so popular.





Sativied said:


> It is genuinely a classic, people being surprised with how low the hard buds go.





hicountry1 said:


> Buy Gavita 750/600's they are crushing for me. Ck out my journal for pics, just pulled some of the fattest nuggets I have grown in 20 years w them. Surprised no one else has mentioned them.


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## a senile fungus (Feb 19, 2015)

OK OK jeez I'll buy one!


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## a senile fungus (Feb 19, 2015)

CC Dobbs said:


> You could keep the gavitas outside the tent and use mirrors to reflect the light into the tent. Heat stays out and the light goes in. I use this technique all the time and get about a pound.



Psh. Fiber optics bro.


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## Sativied (Feb 20, 2015)

a senile fungus said:


> OK OK jeez I'll buy one!


Ok.... 8 more to go to get a bonus


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## Cowboy Kahlil (Feb 23, 2015)

The local hydro stores tell me some of the 5 yr guaranteed ballasts wear out in 4th or 5th year and can be a hassle to get mfr replacements. One suggested I go with a magnetic ballast (which she preferred b/c of rf interference). Another mentioned a 3 yr digital dimmable ballast they carry and pointed out a key thing: if it fails, they'll swap it out on the spot in the first 3 years. That made sense to me, so that's my likely course during this first tent grow.

So now it's figuring out the lamp. Since it won't be DE, I'm guessing it'll have to be swapped out every 8-9 months, so are the cheapies ($35-$45) gonna be as good as something like a higher end Ushio within that time-frame?

Since I'm starting from seed with this one, I'm hoping to harvest in July. By then, I plan to move to a site with more growspace and more height, and will consider all the potential upgrades for that second grow.


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## Sativied (Feb 23, 2015)

Cowboy Kahlil said:


> Since it won't be DE, I'm guessing it'll have to be swapped out every 8-9 months, so are the cheapies ($35-$45) gonna be as good as something like a higher end Ushio within that time-frame?


With possible exceptions, no, the difference between a good one and a bad (cheap shit) one can be larger than the difference between an old and a new one.


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## a senile fungus (Feb 24, 2015)

@Sativied

The sales guy at the hydro shop spent about 30min attempting to explain how a batwing reflector will out perform a gavita hands down, every time. He talked about how it has better reflectivity (German engineered aluminum man) and more of this and more of that. 

Then I shut his mouth when asking about umols and ppfd. He'd never heard of them.

But he's confident that the batwing will totoally outperform gavita, he's very confident in my purchase...

What a fool.

I explained to him that he could use about 30% less light and increase harvests if he went with a few of my suggestion. He actually started taking notes, I drew him a couple pics... Then I left once he started trying to sell me organic nutes. "This bottle has every amendment on your shelf in it and more, totally all natural!"

Interesting experience nonetheless. I've got two new batwings (German engineered aluminum man) for my 315w CMH so I can veg with them horizontally.

Played with the gavita in the store, I'm leaning towards just making the purchase...


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## Sativied (Feb 24, 2015)

Besides from bad advice not a great salesman either, can't imagine much of a profit on a batwing.

German aluminium huh, wouldn't surprise me if the gavita reflector comes out of a factory in germany too. Regardless, he's a fool indeed, one of the key features of the gavita pro is the hortistar 96 reflector, made from some special micro aluminium and "96" because it results in 96% of the light to be directed towards the plants. It technically cannot be cleaned without damaging it (they litterally mention that on the site), soft dry or damp cloth if you have too. The reflector itself should be replaced (easy job) ideally once a year.


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## Cowboy Kahlil (Feb 25, 2015)

a senile fungus said:


> @Sativied
> 
> 
> 
> But he's confident that the batwing will totoally outperform gavita, he's very confident in my purchase.


Yeah, but you'll be wishing you'd bought the batwing if the Penguin attacks Gotham.


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## Sativied (Feb 25, 2015)

a senile fungus said:


> Played with the gavita in the store, I'm leaning towards just making the purchase...


Me too... the 750 that is... and then my car broke down on the way to the grow shop and it sounds more expensive to repair than a gavita... 

I don't sell harvest, already have good enough gear, and since I'm pollinating every round... I don't really need it. Probably still going to get it though, I would need a new 600w bulb and new aluminium inlay strips for my gavita tripplestar hood anyway... and want to replace my old mag ballast with something dimmable/boostable. Might as well add $100 and get the complete 750 DE, which should work very well for my 16sqft / 1.5m2 "_Lights more than 1,5 square meters with 1000 μmol m-2 s-1_". I'll probably run it lower than 750 a large part of the cycle, and boost at critical weeks. 

3 more days till the grow shop law goes in to effect...

I just noticed the prices for replacement reflectors and cheapest is 24 euro for the HR96 reflector, and 25 euro for the tripplestar strips I'd need. Roughly 30 USD.


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## whazzup (Mar 2, 2015)

Lighting... Can't live with it, can't live without it right?


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## Dadioski (Mar 2, 2015)

Sativied said:


> Not in real life, I've seen them at growshops and in the local forums. 4x600watt used to be the safe max here to remain stealth, so the growers that do post online are usually the smaller ones who don't need it. Yet is has been mentioned 2170 times at the local grow forums according to google. That's how popular it is. They also tested several models, many growshops offer test gear to review online. I've done root riot plugs once - lucky me... I've never seen another A/C being use though, not irl, not online, not in growshops.
> 
> A common one is the 3500 serie, which is for 6x600 watt or 3x900.
> 
> ...


Looks familiar, this was my first grow with 4 of the 6/750de fixtures and 2 of the new supplemental plasma's on light movers. I put them all on the Gavita EL1 controller which is really handy. The 375w to 825w adjustable range is good and the automatic watt reduction at a room temperature set point with a hard shut down at another set point saved my ass twice when the A/C circuit blew a fuse.
I vegged this grow too long, it got out of control but gave me 10 lb. 30" is about as close to the plants as I want to get from the lamps. Very efficient too consumption wise, 1/2 hp chiller, 2 tons of A/C, pumps, fans,and lights added up to $250.00 additional to my electric bill.


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## dakinelove (Mar 9, 2015)

Monster Gardens does a lot of the beta testing for Nanolux. The independent test results I've seen show a slight edge Nanolux has on Gavita...although they are very close.

Also, DEs are designed to work in tandem with other DEs. The secret to DEs and their increase in crop yield is not just about the lumens or PAR value, but rather the fact that the hood is designed to work with other lights. DEs produce what's known as horizontal light penetration in addition to the usual vertical penetration most are familiar with. This interlacing of light patterns increases the light penetration deep into the canopy by entering at multiple angles, averting the leaves that block vertical light.

Companies are coming out with hoods that will do a 5'x5' solid footprint, but this will simply be too much light for such a small area. Way beyond the plant's ability to utilize that much light. 

People that have tried to use it as a single light will mount it closer to the canopy. This is analogous to making the footprint more concentrated with a new hood designed to do so. What happens when someone does this is that the plant starts to bleach, and if the light and heat are concentrated enough into one area, the plants shut down completely.

If you decide to use a DE in a tent I would seriously consider buying an air cooled hood like the AC/DE hood from Sunlight. If you use the open reflector, you will end up spending just as much money on ventilation each month as running the DE, and there's no guarantee that this will even work.


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## Dadioski (Mar 9, 2015)

dakinelove said:


> Monster Gardens does a lot of the beta testing for Nanolux. The independent test results I've seen show a slight edge Nanolux has on Gavita...although they are very close.
> 
> Also, DEs are designed to work in tandem with other DEs. The secret to DEs and their increase in crop yield is not just about the lumens or PAR value, but rather the fact that the hood is designed to work with other lights. DEs produce what's known as horizontal light penetration in addition to the usual vertical penetration most are familiar with. This interlacing of light patterns increases the light penetration deep into the canopy by entering at multiple angles, averting the leaves that block vertical light.
> 
> ...


I agree with above, too intense for a tent without additional cooling.


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## dakinelove (Mar 9, 2015)




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## Sativied (Mar 10, 2015)

Yet thousands of growers use them successfully to grow 1gpw commercial quality bud in tents and single bulb closets without "additional" cooling. 

You're also not supposed to cool HPS bulbs, air cooled hoods significantly reduce the light output, from both the glass and the temp fluctuations. 

Well said on the light from different angles for better crop penetration though...


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## Dadioski (Mar 10, 2015)

Well goddammit after Sativied's post, I recant, it was my judgement, based on my room with a shit load of other heat sources, so, forget what I said, I do not have a tent and do not fucking know. The DE fixtures do run pretty cool, the plasma's are a major heat sink though.


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## FamMan (Mar 10, 2015)

What do you mean heat sink??


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## Dadioski (Mar 10, 2015)

I mean they the plasma ballast get pretty warm, warmer than you want on your skin for more than say 10-20 seconds. The ballast get much warmer on the plasmas than the 6/750DE ballasts. The light emitted from the plasma is cool where most of the heat from the HPS DE is in the light and the ballast remain fairly cool. If this makes sense.


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## FamMan (Mar 10, 2015)

Yes it does. I didn't know that about plasmas. Thank u.


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## TrimmersDlite (May 23, 2015)

Hey guys!.. Just my two cents.. I recently upgraded my gorilla 4x4 with 2ft extension making it 8'11" tall.. I bought the 6/750 flex w/EL2 controller..I also added the new can max pro 6" multi flow fan(awesome)that I have turned all the way up to 420cfm hooked to a 6x24 phresh and its blowing straight outside.. My temps are sky rocketing.. At 750w it will run about 9 degrees warmer than bladder room.. So I added a 4"vortex inline blowing air inside at the bottom which helped a bit. Needless to say, my hut runs about 79-84* at 600w.. 750 just runs to hot.. I run it at night and temps have been cool around 45* outside.. We've had nights that only go to 65* and the hut will get to 86* until the el2 starts backing it dwn.. One wk away from chop and I do notice a more outdoor look to the buds however I think heat stress made my prefaces throw huge bananas that seeded everything.


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## a mongo frog (May 23, 2015)

TrimmersDlite said:


> Hey guys!.. Just my two cents.. I recently upgraded my gorilla 4x4 with 2ft extension making it 8'11" tall.. I bought the 6/750 flex w/EL2 controller..I also added the new can max pro 6" multi flow fan(awesome)that I have turned all the way up to 420cfm hooked to a 6x24 phresh and its blowing straight outside.. My temps are sky rocketing.. At 750w it will run about 9 degrees warmer than bladder room.. So I added a 4"vortex inline blowing air inside at the bottom which helped a bit. Needless to say, my hut runs about 79-84* at 600w.. 750 just runs to hot.. I run it at night and temps have been cool around 45* outside.. We've had nights that only go to 65* and the hut will get to 86* until the el2 starts backing it dwn.. One wk away from chop and I do notice a more outdoor look to the buds however I think heat stress made my prefaces throw huge bananas that seeded everything.


Good info. Thanks for your feed back. Sorry about the heat stress.


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## FamMan (May 23, 2015)

Dude thanx for the info!!!! sorry to here that about ur grow. so are you goin to try and change ur setup or tweak it?


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## TrimmersDlite (May 23, 2015)

Thanks mfrog.. Shit happens.. It was only one of the two phenos that did it and thankfully the one I'm not keeping.. Moving next month and I want to run two flex Gavitas in a gorilla 4x8 but I'll def need to run at same time with a window ac unit in window running the whole time w/lights on.. I want these Gavitas to work if you can't tell..


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## TrimmersDlite (May 23, 2015)

Thanks famman.. Yeah if I have to run the two lights on flip schedules I'm not sure what I'm going to do cause I don't want to run ac 24/7.. We had to quickly get in and get out cause rental company was supposed to give 24hr notice and didn't to look at it.. So of course I forgot to look if breakers were in place so I'll find out next month what I'll be able to do.. Also, sunlight supply rep told me about issues w/ indicator lights not working on some units.. My flex ran for a month and shorted out blowing my breaker.. Thank god I had another one and shop just rma'd it but there's no stock out there to replace atm


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## FamMan (May 23, 2015)

hope you get dialed in on ur next run. really appreciate the info.


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## TrimmersDlite (May 23, 2015)

Solis tech rep came in and spoke about the issues they've had over the last year with the ballast, New mfg plant was the problem he said.good news I hope cause they were good at one point.. He also showed my buddy the new DE bulbs they have and one is a finisher bulb that looks like it wrks pretty well.. Kinda cool for the DE peeps


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