# Flushing....Whats your technique?



## k5kreep (Dec 10, 2011)

I want to get everyone opinion on how to properly flush before harvest. Do you use a solution? Fresh water? PH adjusted water? How long? Im curious for all mediums, so let me know what works for you fellas.


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## tip top toker (Dec 10, 2011)

When i did, it was simply ph'ed water for about a week. Then i stopped altogether and noticed no difference.


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## djlifeline (Dec 10, 2011)

My technique is not too  I grow organic in soil so no need and never should be any need unless you mess up. Yes this statement will cause an arguement so I will finish it by saying this is MY OPINION. Preference thing. Do a side by side experiment and find out for yourself.


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## SmeLLyTreeZ (Dec 10, 2011)

My opinion is the same as above, flush if you have to. I only flush with straight water at the very end the last watering if I don't it doesn't seem to make much of a difference. I'm also in soil, when I switch over to dro I will have to try both ways..


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## DST (Dec 10, 2011)

No argument from me, I use a mix of fresh coco and my own compost and only water the last couple of days as normal, with rain water I collect. Flushing is important for hydro especially, and like djlifeline say's, if you are doing is correct flushing is for toilets, lol.


djlifeline said:


> My technique is not too  I grow organic in soil so no need and never should be any need unless you mess up. Yes this statement will cause an arguement so I will finish it by saying this is MY OPINION. Preference thing. Do a side by side experiment and find out for yourself.


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## KushDog (Dec 10, 2011)

last 2 week nothing except water (soil ) Last week /week &ahalf for hydro


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## El Superbeasto (Dec 10, 2011)

Why? ........



KushDog said:


> last 2 week nothing except water (soil )  Last week /week &ahalf for hydro


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## Harrekin (Dec 10, 2011)

Just wipe, then pull the handle...don't forget to wash your hands.


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## JEEP1 (Dec 10, 2011)

k5kreep said:


> I want to get everyone opinion on how to properly flush before harvest. Do you use a solution? Fresh water? PH adjusted water? How long? Im curious for all mediums, so let me know what works for you fellas.


hey K5,this is what i do ,i use addvanced nutes pretty much the whole line with a two part base coni a and b,i grow in pro mix,and run my ph at 6.3.when it comes time to flush i use final faze from addvanced nutes.its easy to use and works great.you apply it to your plnts until you get about 10%run off from your plants,empty out the run off and wait 6 hours and do it again,thats it your done now the rest of the week i water with just ph adjusted water,and the other reason i like it is because i can feed them right up to the last three days of flow if i wanted to.hope this helps.

peace JEEP1


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## Harrekin (Dec 10, 2011)

JEEP1 said:


> hey K5,this is what i do ,i use addvanced nutes pretty much the whole line with a two part base coni a and b,i grow in pro mix,and run my ph at 6.3.when it comes time to flush i use final faze from addvanced nutes.its easy to use and works great.you apply it to your plnts until you get about 10%run off from your plants,empty out the run off and wait 6 hours and do it again,thats it your done now the rest of the week i water with just ph adjusted water,and the other reason i like it is because i can feed them right up to the last three days of flow if i wanted to.hope this helps.
> 
> peace JEEP1


 If you pay for AN Connissuer as a base nute then you're not the kinda guy to be giving advice out to people.


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## JEEP1 (Dec 10, 2011)

hey harrekin,just letting the guy know what works for me i wasnt giving addvice to any one,whats up with an why do you dislke them ?if you know somthing bad about them please share.are you talking about an altogether or just the base?
what do you use your plant looks great.not looking for a fight just looking to learn and share.

peace JEEP1


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## Rrog (Dec 10, 2011)

If you're growing in a natural soil there's no flushing. Anyone who says otherwise simply doesn't know better. Nutrients are locked up IF the soil is natural and active. If however you are using some sort of soil-like medium and pouring ferts on top that's not soil and who knows what you have going on in that pail so flush away, I guess.


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## bigv1976 (Dec 10, 2011)

I love how people say flushing does nothing or is not needed when all of the top breeders in the world ALL do it.


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## Rrog (Dec 10, 2011)

Then they're not growing in real soil. And...really kermie? They ALL do it? Really? 

Maybe look up Cation Exchange Capacity. Check out Humus and clay.


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## bigv1976 (Dec 10, 2011)

Rrog said:


> Then they're not growing in real soil. And...really kermie? They ALL do it? Really?
> 
> Maybe look up Cation Exchange Capacity. Check out Humus and clay.


I am not going to argue this point with you as it has been argued on here a thousand times but I read High Times religiously and I have yet to see a reputable breeder that doesnt flush their soil. FACT!!!


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## Sunbiz1 (Dec 10, 2011)

k5kreep said:


> I want to get everyone opinion on how to properly flush before harvest. Do you use a solution? Fresh water? PH adjusted water? How long? Im curious for all mediums, so let me know what works for you fellas.


Every October I rent a front end loader and a city water truck to flush my guerrilla grows, I'm running out of woods to clear. All kidding aside, you should not have to flush before harvesting unless the medium was either poor to begin with(Miracle-Grow etc)or has been screwed up with additives etc. over time.


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## KushDog (Dec 10, 2011)

El Superbeasto said:


> Why? ........


 it's just how i have done it, i stop feeding acouple weeks before harvest. 

I also know someone that grows in hydro and does not flush at all, feeds them till the end, And it is good smoke.


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## Rrog (Dec 10, 2011)

Exactly Sunbiz. The information is available. Try Teaming With Microbes. Explains it very well and very simply. Assuming one can read vs. just look at the pictures.


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## Stillblazinit (Dec 10, 2011)

i think the way you should think of flushing is that you know the plant has fed on only clean water for the past week instead of chemical-filled water. Its a great thought people. just like instead of even USING nutes throughout the grow, to go to completely organic or veganic mixes for the purest and most "habitat natural" taste, ya dig?


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## Illegal Smile (Dec 10, 2011)

It's never been proven that flushing does anything. It doesn't matter how many people believe otherwise. It's a feelgood thing. If it makes you feel good, do it.


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## Rrog (Dec 10, 2011)

As Stillblazinit mentioned, if you're pouring ferts on soil, probably best to run straight water through, since poured ferts are not natural and it's pretty assured that a natural micro-life web has not been established.

And yes, if it feels good do it by all means. Thank you for pointing that out Smile. A guy shouldn't incorrectly parrot what they've read and then recruit others that this is a necessary function. I'd like to hear from one person that has read literature that is more than pseudo science that still feels the need to use bottled ferts or flush. When someone truly understands what is going on at the microbial level you will see. 

Again I recommend reading Teaming With Microbes and come into the light.


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## Sunbiz1 (Dec 10, 2011)

Rrog said:


> Exactly Sunbiz. The information is available. Try Teaming With Microbes. Explains it very well and very simply. Assuming one can read vs. just look at the pictures.


Hi Rrog,

I've often wondered what flushing does to whatever microbial life is existing. Do they cling onto soil molecules or get flushed out along with everything else?. Either way, I cannot image that drowning microbes would be of any benefit.


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## Rrog (Dec 10, 2011)

No benefit to drowning the helpers.

If the soil is half worth a crap, it will have clay and humus, both having huge negative electrical charge (due to microscopic particle size) to hold cations (Ca++, K+, Na+, Mg+, Fe+, NH4+, H+). They are locked tight to humus and clay, unable to wash away. The process of chelation is required to remove them and make the ions available for the roots. Some Fungi can perform this chelation, assuming there's a broad and diverse micro-life that is in a normal relationship with the plant. Pouring and flooding the "soil" with bottled ferts does not promote a normal microbial relationship


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## thump easy (Dec 10, 2011)

when i flush i just look back with persision grab ahold of the handle n pull down word becarful the chain is lible to break.. lolz just kidding


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## Rrog (Dec 10, 2011)

Yes! Don't get me wrong... I don't avoid flushing of all types...


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 10, 2011)

bigv1976 said:


> I love how people say flushing does nothing or is not needed when all of the top breeders in the world ALL do it.


Those same top breeders that are pumping out generation after generation of unstable genetics? I think F-1 pollen chucking guess work is the technical term they use in the biz....


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## wbd (Dec 10, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> Every October I rent a front end loader and a city water truck to flush my guerrilla grows, I'm running out of woods to clear. All kidding aside, you should not have to flush before harvesting unless the medium was either poor to begin with(Miracle-Grow etc)or has been screwed up with additives etc. over time.


Except there's a huge difference between a plant growing in the ground and one in a container. Containers accumulate salts/minerals over time, that's the key factor here.

I know you were just making a joke, but really it has no basis.


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## Sunbiz1 (Dec 10, 2011)

wbd said:


> Except there's a huge difference between a plant growing in the ground and one in a container. Containers accumulate salts/minerals over time, that's the key factor here.
> 
> I know you were just making a joke, but really it has no basis.


LOL, we actually beat this topic to death before you came along....now I'm off to flush the earth!.


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## wbd (Dec 10, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> LOL, we actually beat this topic to death before you came along....now I'm off to flush the earth!.


 You still don't get it. I agree with you, no reason to "flush the earth".

Flushing a container, it's a different set of circumstances. Do you see why?

P.S. Just as an aside, outdoor plants are flushed all the time by mother nature. It's called rain.


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## Sunbiz1 (Dec 10, 2011)

wbd said:


> You still don't get it. I agree with you, no reason to "flush the earth".
> 
> Flushing a container, it's a different set of circumstances. Do you see why?
> 
> P.S. Just as an aside, outdoor plants are flushed all the time by mother nature. It's called rain.


You're beginning to annoy me with your condescending attitude. Unless you have been growing for a decade and have some back round in horticulture prior to that(as I do), there isn't anything you can teach me. 

Again, this topic has been thoroughly discussed.


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 10, 2011)

I have mentioned this before. If you want to know what sort of microbial life you have going in your teas and medium, go to Hobby Lobby or such and get a microscope and some slides. Simple samples of runoff and your medium or teas you can see for your own eyes. its actually pretty cool to see the herd you are tending first hand.....


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 10, 2011)

In the old days before the internet and ready access to pH/ppm/ec meters we knew we had salt build up when a white, crystal like things starting forming on the top of the medium. Not because we had sick plants. Then we would leach our pots but really didnt happen that often. ........


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## Rrog (Dec 10, 2011)

wbd said:


> Except there's a huge difference between a plant growing in the ground and one in a container. Containers accumulate salts/minerals over time, that's the key factor here.
> 
> I know you were just making a joke, but really it has no basis.


Salts will buildup if you're using some bottled fert product, which isn't natural soil, and so a flush would probably be a great idea.



wbd said:


> You still don't get it. I agree with you, no reason to "flush the earth".
> 
> Flushing a container, it's a different set of circumstances. Do you see why?
> 
> P.S. Just as an aside, outdoor plants are flushed all the time by mother nature. It's called rain.


Incorrect. Rain will not flush a plant like is done with containers. Plants aren't flushed in nature. 

If you have been using ferts, then flush. If using natural soil, no flush.


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 10, 2011)

Bottled, bagged, compost, pelletized, castings, bird or bat shit, fish guts. Ferts are ferts and they all pretty much end up a salt...you know, a basic element.......


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## Rrog (Dec 10, 2011)

Now we disagree.


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## Sunbiz1 (Dec 10, 2011)

Rrog said:


> Salts will buildup if you're using some bottled fert product, which isn't natural soil, and so a flush would probably be a great idea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm convinced at least half of the threads in plant problems could be avoided by eliminating ferts/bottled products.


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## Sunbiz1 (Dec 10, 2011)

watchhowIdoit said:


> Bottled, bagged, compost, pelletized, castings, bird or bat shit, fish guts. Ferts are ferts and they all pretty much end up a salt...you know, a basic element.......


Yet how does one compare an in-ground with a container?...we modified nature and expect better results??.


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## SirLancelot (Dec 10, 2011)

pot heads have too much time on their hands and are always looking for something to do even when it's not needed... i.e flushing, trimming many healthy fan leaves, etc.. 

Marijuana isn't as special as you all make it out to be, it's a plant. and in the history of agriculture no one flushes before harvesting veggies or fruits. go ahead and starve your plants before harvest. thinking of that I don't think any living thing on earth benifits from being starved...


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## Sunbiz1 (Dec 10, 2011)

SirLancelot said:


> pot heads have too much time on their hands and are always looking for something to do even when it's not needed... i.e flushing, trimming many healthy fan leaves, etc..
> 
> Marijuana isn't as special as you all make it out to be, it's a plant. and in the history of agriculture no one flushes before harvesting veggies or fruits. go ahead and starve your plants before harvest. thinking of that I don't think any living thing on earth benifits from being starved...



Marijuana is a pervasive weed, a weed people think they can improve. 

See my sig


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## wbd (Dec 10, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> You're beginning to annoy me with your condescending attitude. Unless you have been growing for a decade and have some back round in horticulture prior to that(as I do), there isn't anything you can teach me.
> 
> Again, this topic has been thoroughly discussed.


And I imagine it will continue be discussed again and again. If you're tired of talking about it or aren't willing to hear what other people have to say, don't participate in the discussions. So simple.

If you can't see why flushing might be more necessary in a container than in the earth, then I'd say there's at least one more thing you can be taught. I have a background in common sense, they don't teach that you know... (oh how I wish they did)


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## wbd (Dec 10, 2011)

Rrog said:


> Salts will buildup if you're using some bottled fert product, which isn't natural soil, and so a flush would probably be a great idea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fair enough and agreed, but moot as you point out there's really no comparing a container plant to one in the earth -- they are completely different environments worthy of different considerations. Bottom line, the argument that "I don't flush my in-ground plants therefore flushing is also useless in container plants" doesn't really stand on its own.

+rep for getting it.


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## Sunbiz1 (Dec 10, 2011)

wbd said:


> And I imagine it will continue be discussed again and again. If you're tired of talking about it or aren't willing to hear what other people have to say, don't participate in the discussions. So simple.
> 
> If you can't see why flushing might be more necessary in a container than in the earth, then I'd say there's at least one more thing you can be taught. I have a background in common sense, they don't teach that you know... (oh how I wish they did)


Heard you the first time, I'll be flushing all container grows from now on...not.


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## Killer Sativa (Dec 10, 2011)

All you people need to smoke a bowl!


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## Filthy Phil (Dec 10, 2011)

I always flush, and as people say, I have done side by sides and I can deffinately tell the.difference in many areas. I feed with flora clean followed by five days to a week of straight water, ph.d to 6.0. To be honest...im.glad most people dont flush, it only makes my bud comparatively that much more valuable.

Also, I use promix and cutting edge solutions 3 part with various.additionals


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 11, 2011)

Bottle ferts are not the problem. Lack of basic plant nutrition is. Marketing and pretty labels are what make plants grow fat, sticky buds, right?


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 11, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> I always flush, and as people say, I have done side by sides and I can deffinately tell the.difference in many areas. I feed with flora clean followed by five days to a week of straight water, ph.d to 6.0. To be honest...im.glad most people dont flush, it only makes my bud comparatively that much more valuable.
> 
> Also, I use promix and cutting edge solutions 3 part with various.additionals


Flushed weed more valuable, heard it all now...........


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## Illegal Smile (Dec 11, 2011)

When people buy a product, or buy in to a technique, they "want" to believe it works. So they do.


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 11, 2011)

Illegal Smile said:


> When people buy a product, or buy in to a technique, they "want" to believe it works. So they do.


Exactly, mind over matter in a less than completely factual way......


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## SirLancelot (Dec 11, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> I always flush, and as people say, I have done side by sides and I can deffinately tell the.difference in many areas. I feed with flora clean followed by five days to a week of straight water, ph.d to 6.0. To be honest...im.glad most people dont flush, it only makes my bud comparatively that much more valuable.
> 
> Also, I use promix and cutting edge solutions 3 part with various.additionals


It's arguments like these that have caused me to do 3 seperate flushing experiments and after a 2wks cure no one can tell a difference. did you wait untill the cure was over? did you participate in the blind taste test? 

Most the time I think everyone is too stoned and they think they notice a difference in plants by the nutrients in the buds when there isn't one. were you using seperate strains? you realize mariuaja is a plant and it's going to differ like how one human differs from another. I've got 3 types of nug right now and they all taste different and I didn't flush one. Like I said go ahead and starve your "better buds" because you flush. lol great advise.


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## SirLancelot (Dec 11, 2011)

So you think that the nutrients you poor into the soil are just sucked up through the roots into the plant and they chemicals store in the nugs untill you smoke it? instead of listening to hear say do some research on how plants work.


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## Illegal Smile (Dec 11, 2011)

SirLancelot said:


> So you think that the nutrients you poor into the soil are just sucked up through the roots into the plant and they chemicals store in the nugs untill you smoke it? instead of listening to hear say do some research on how plants work.


Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!

This is exactly what they think. It goes with the belief that you can add flavorings that somehow make their way to the buds. Plants take what they need from the soil or water and they metabolize it. At the point most of you are flushing (unless you are doing it too early) the plant has probably stopped uptaking anything, and there is no evidence it can leech anything back out. So I keep asking the question - the gunk that is supposedly being flushed out, where is it being flushed "to?"


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## Loaded for bud (Dec 11, 2011)

Yep Im 100% organic and it is so smooth and tastes great,


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## Filthy Phil (Dec 11, 2011)

SirLancelot said:


> It's arguments like these that have caused me to do 3 seperate flushing experiments and after a 2wks cure no one can tell a difference. did you wait untill the cure was over? did you participate in the blind taste test?
> 
> Most the time I think everyone is too stoned and they think they notice a difference in plants by the nutrients in the buds when there isn't one. were you using seperate strains? you realize mariuaja is a plant and it's going to differ like how one human differs from another. I've got 3 types of nug right now and they all taste different and I didn't flush one. Like I said go ahead and starve your "better buds" because you flush. lol great advise.


Theres no need to insinuate things.aboit a person because they say they notice things you cant. I can tell the difference between english and french thyme, italian and thai basil, potatoes put into water amd boiled vs potatoes put into boiling water, the diff betqeen ginger and galangal, and yes, between flushed and unflushed 
weed. Its ok if you cant. A few things I notice from my flushed buds, same strain grown many many times, 
same time, same light, same nutes, some flushed some.not, t he flushed buds burn better, are smoother on mymy throat, and yes, have a more pronounced cleaner flavor. And they dont make a cracking sizzling sound. But again, its cool if you cant tell the difference, not everyone can...


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## Harrekin (Dec 11, 2011)

That's bullshit bro, there is no taste difference, why would there be? Tell me what flushing does to make your buds taste better? Explain to me exactly how and why it works instead of just implying the rest of us can't taste properly?


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## SirLancelot (Dec 11, 2011)

How come farmers don't flush their veggies or fruits? why is Mj so magically different? I just don't get it. But no one knows what works best for you except for you. I will note that every time I did the experiment I couldn't tell which was flushed and which wasn't regardless if you grow fire nugs your gonna have fire nugs.


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## Filthy Phil (Dec 11, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> That's bullshit bro, there is no taste difference, why would there be? Tell me what flushing does to make your buds taste better? Explain to me exactly how and why it works instead of just implying the rest of us can't taste properly?


I cant man...i cant explain to you exactly how it works. Just in my oppinion, it does work. I will always flush mine, I honestly can no longer be convinced it does nothing.

You dont need to approach this as a challenge buddy. You can do yours your way, and I'll do mine my way. Chilllllll

I didnt say the rest of you cant taste properly,i simply said I taste things others dont. Perhaps its I who taste improperly, yet I do taste a subtle difference.

Have you ever heard of super tasters? I am not saying I am one of them, but I bring it up to illistrate that there are varrying degrees among people of taste experience. Not everyone can taste things equally, some more some less than others.

Again....chillllllll....its not an attack on you simply because I said about you exactly what you say about yourself, that you cant taste the difference....


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## Filthy Phil (Dec 11, 2011)

Oh, and also, my friend is a level two somalie (professional taster), and yes, she can blindly tell the difference.....


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## Illegal Smile (Dec 11, 2011)

Some people think things taste better if you pray over them or perform some other ritual.

I'm beginning to think flushing is just that - a ritual performed by true believers.


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## SirLancelot (Dec 11, 2011)

ok super taster I'll give you that, but that's like only 25% of the population. SO i guess if your in that 25% you would be able to tell a differnence and I guess im not since I can't tell a taste difference...


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## Filthy Phil (Dec 11, 2011)

SirLancelot said:


> ok super taster I'll give you that, but that's like only 25% of the population. SO i guess if your in that 25% you would be able to tell a differnence and I guess im not since I can't tell a taste difference...


Do you notice that about 3/4 of responses say they cant taste the difference?


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## Harrekin (Dec 11, 2011)

SirLancelot said:


> ok super taster I'll give you that, but that's like only 25% of the population. SO i guess if your in that 25% you would be able to tell a differnence and I guess im not since I can't tell a taste difference...


The "super taster" thing is bullshit too, flushing doesn't work the way it's advertised, so regardless of your sense of taste, there is no difference. Buds don't store nutes, and all nutes are the same chemicals (regardless of brand or synthetic/organic) once they're metabolized... These are facts. The plant doesn't "use up" nutrients when you stop feeding. 

Its not a matter of taste, it's a matter of it doesn't work like that.


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## Filthy Phil (Dec 11, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> The "super taster" thing is bullshit too, flushing doesn't work the way it's advertised, so regardless of your sense of taste, there is no difference. Buds don't store nutes, and all nutes are the same chemicals (regardless of brand or synthetic/organic) once they're metabolized... These are facts. The plant doesn't "use up" nutrients when you stop feeding.
> 
> Its not a matter of taste, it's a matter of it doesn't work like that.


Oh, well im glad we cleared that up. Do leaves store nutes, do stems and roots? Yes...they do. But i guess if some people can tell the difference they must be wrong because YOU cant tell the difference o end-all-of-growing-information...but thanks for clearing that up, im going to go tell everyone, "hey, so harrakin said that flushing is bullshit, and after all HE is the authority on all things growing, so we dont need to flush anymore.

By the way, I have been called out by club owners in the past for not flushing when I didnt flush. Never been accused of it when I DID flush, and only been accused of not flushing when I didnt flush. Id call that a pretty blind test.

But I'm glad we have harrakin here to set us straight.

You should go occupy the hydro shop with a sign that says "we are the 75%!"


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## SirLancelot (Dec 11, 2011)

Filthy Phil said:


> You should go occupy the hydro shop with a sign that says "we are the 75%!"


haha

Im glad Im in the "75%" I don't have to starve my plants from what they need in the last crucial weeks because the supposed taste bothers me. I just had a group of northern lights finish and seriously 3 of them tasted different. regardless if flushing improves taste or not each plant has it's own distinct characteristics.

Like we've agreed on though what works for you doesn't for others and vis versa


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## Filthy Phil (Dec 11, 2011)

SirLancelot said:


> haha
> 
> Im glad Im in the "75%" I don't have to starve my plants from what they need in the last crucial weeks because the supposed taste bothers me. I just had a group of northern lights finish and seriously 3 of them tasted different. regardless if flushing improves taste or not each plant has it's own distinct characteristics.
> 
> Like we've agreed on though what works for you doesn't for others and vis versa


You are totally correct about that, that even plants with the same treatment can have differences. That does throw a whole other variable into the controversy. Happy tending


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## k5kreep (Dec 11, 2011)

Hey fellas I appreciate all the responses. I only have 5 crops under my belt so far and have tried Rockwool/Hydrton and Coco, both with flood and drain. I have had pretty decent result thus far but I know I have tremendous room for improvement. With all my crops I just cant seem to get the taste I'm after, hence the reason for the question. All my crops have been flushed, but flushed differently every time due to some experimentation process. The guy that started me out pretty much sucks so I have had to learn on my own. He started me out with GH Nutes (2 Part), then I Moved into the 3 part of GRO, MICRO, & BLOOM along with some additives. So with the taste issue, I don't really know what the deal is. So far I have grown Afgooey, BlueBerry, God Bud, BlueDream and HinduKush, all of which looked good, smelled good when broke open, but just didn't have the taste that grabs you like others I have tried. Any more Info would be awesome.


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## Filthy Phil (Dec 11, 2011)

k5kreep said:


> Hey fellas I appreciate all the responses. I only have 5 crops under my belt so far and have tried Rockwool/Hydrton and Coco, both with flood and drain. I have had pretty decent result thus far but I know I have tremendous room for improvement. With all my crops I just cant seem to get the taste I'm after, hence the reason for the question. All my crops have been flushed, but flushed differently every time due to some experimentation process. The guy that started me out pretty much sucks so I have had to learn on my own. He started me out with GH Nutes (2 Part), then I Moved into the 3 part of GRO, MICRO, & BLOOM along with some additives. So with the taste issue, I don't really know what the deal is. So far I have grown Afgooey, BlueBerry, God Bud, BlueDream and HinduKush, all of which looked good, smelled good when broke open, but just didn't have the taste that grabs you like others I have tried. Any more Info would be awesome.



Ahhhhh taste, the final frontier. I say that because it seems to be for a lot of people the hardest one to master. When yoir shit is sparkling like wet diamonds, you'll still be trying to get the taste more intense.

Overall health is what it really takes. I find not experiencing any defficiencies of potassium, magnesium, and sulferoften leaves me with the best tasting buds. I know thats a backward way of saying it....


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## potpimp (Dec 11, 2011)

watchhowIdoit said:


> I have mentioned this before. If you want to know what sort of microbial life you have going in your teas and medium, go to Hobby Lobby or such and get a microscope and some slides. Simple samples of runoff and your medium or teas you can see for your own eyes. its actually pretty cool to see the herd you are tending first hand.....


I don't think Hobby Lobby sells microscopes strong enough to see bacteria. And you can't see them unless you use staining techniques. Also, to know "what sort" they are, you need to be trained; there are basically two types but there are thousands or millions in each morphology. When I studied microbiology in college we used 1500 power microscopes. But it is very cool to see.


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 12, 2011)

http://shop.hobbylobby.com/products/microscope-set-with-case-717918/ Only 40 bucks, up to 900x power, plenty strong to see bacteria and fungi. Even contains some stain. I never said each and everyone of us could identify exact specimens. But you sure can get a feel for the populations your maintaining. And if the 'bug' gets you then identification of each becomes the next step.......continual learning Barney, continual learning...

Strep under 900x....


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## potpimp (Dec 12, 2011)

watchhowIdoit said:


> http://shop.hobbylobby.com/products/microscope-set-with-case-717918/ Only 40 bucks, up to 900x power, plenty strong to see bacteria and fungi. Even contains some stain. I never said each and everyone of us could identify exact specimens. But you sure can get a feel for the populations your maintaining. And if the 'bug' gets you then identification of each becomes the next step.......continual learning Barney, continual learning...
> 
> Strep under 900x....


Yep, good ole beta strep, very nasty shit; I studied that in depth. You can see the bacteria under a 900 x but that doesn't get you enough detail for identification - even if you're a bacteriology guru. There are a lot of things that are very cool to look at under 900. Many little critters look like alien creatures. Check out talcum powder under the scope!


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## hydromaster666 (Dec 13, 2011)

Has anyone seen this video on youtube? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sr58DBJ0Dw&feature=related

Its a video showing how unflushed weed burns to black ash. While clean, flushed weed burns to a gray ash. So flushing cant be pointless... Id rather smoke the cleaner looking one, even if you cant tell the diff taste wise. I dont want whatevers turning it black in my body.


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## lordjin (Dec 13, 2011)

Stillblazinit said:


> i think the way you should think of flushing is that you know the plant has fed on only clean water for the past week instead of chemical-filled water. Its a great thought people. just like instead of even USING nutes throughout the grow, to go to completely organic or veganic mixes for the purest and most "habitat natural" taste, ya dig?


There is nothing for the plant to 'feed on' in plain water... But you still have it under your light, so it's still trying to grow without food. This reduces potency.


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## RawBudzski (Dec 13, 2011)

I always flush before I chop.. now whether I flush soon enough is another question..I use mostly organic ferts and nutes.. I love Bat Guano, I add it to my water & it automatically sets PH @ 6.8ish so no need to use my meter.. Though I have gotten lazy before & used ONLY bat guano for an entire grow for a few plants.. not all. & I still got some good bud I could hardly distinguish it from the rest.. 

I say, if your plant is a good shade of green and not yellowing too fast. your ok. 


Now back on topic. I NOW give my plants a large plain watering 1month into bloom then 1-2 wks before chop. while using plain water + molassass in between flushes. Might add more nutes for any plant that shows signs of needing it.


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## SirLancelot (Dec 13, 2011)

hydromaster666 said:


> Has anyone seen this video on youtube? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sr58DBJ0Dw&feature=related
> 
> Its a video showing how unflushed weed burns to black ash. While clean, flushed weed burns to a gray ash. So flushing cant be pointless... Id rather smoke the cleaner looking one, even if you cant tell the diff taste wise. I dont want whatevers turning it black in my body.



http://youtu.be/btPI1QuWsRI

Not everything on the internet is true...


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## lordjin (Dec 13, 2011)

hydromaster666 said:


> Has anyone seen this video on youtube? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sr58DBJ0Dw&feature=related
> 
> Its a video showing how unflushed weed burns to black ash. While clean, flushed weed burns to a gray ash. So flushing cant be pointless... Id rather smoke the cleaner looking one, even if you cant tell the diff taste wise. I dont want whatevers turning it black in my body.


That's interesting, but incorrect. My leaves are translocating N and are yellowing nicely... and it's not because I'm flushing.

Flushing only makes sense if the plant one day says, "Okay I'm not gonna grow anymore, I'm done, flush me." Now we all know this doesn't happen and the plant tries to grow until the very end. So how does it help anything to starve it? Isn't that like forcing an althete to go exercise in the sun without breakfast?

I used to totally buy into that white ash thing. But the ash is black because the lazy grower used chemical pesticides, not because he didn't flush. In hydro, if you change your water regularly and flush between water changes, you eliminate salt buildup and get clean smoke.

Edit:
Flushing with soil and flushing with hydro are two completely different matters. I only speak for hydro when I say it's not necessary... and in fact can hurt your potency.


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## Harrekin (Dec 13, 2011)

Again I'll put three questions to the toilet cultivators...

1. How exactly does flushing remove nutrients from the plant? Plants don't store raw chemical nutes nor do they "use them up". 

2. How exactly is organic N (for example) any different to say Nitrate Nitrogen once it's been absorbed by the roots and metabolised?

3. Why do tobacco or fruit/veg growers not need to flush their plants but we apparently do?

The flushing thing is illogical, it's starving your plants in their most important phase of life. 

No more bullshit and I'm not claiming to know everything, just flushing doesn't logically or scientifically make the slightest lick of sense.


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## RawBudzski (Dec 13, 2011)

I see where you're coming from, but instead of leaning totally on.. Flushing wont help, it starves your plant. Why not think positive about your product & promote it as such, especially if using alot of chem nutes. I allow my plants 2-4days of Darkness before I chop, I flush heavily before last lights out. I know for Certain..my bud wont lose potency or gain much in that short period of time.. I know the long darkness may not add many more trichs or make a noticable diff.. but it is nice also Knowing that your bud you smoke had fresh water being ran through it even if for a short period of time before chop. One of those things. Nothing to lose, but you have a chance @ gaining something, even if it is minute.


lordjin said:


> That's interesting, but incorrect. My leaves are translocating N and are yellowing nicely... and it's not because I'm flushing.
> 
> Flushing only makes sense if the plant one day says, "Okay I'm not gonna grow anymore, I'm done, flush me." Now we all know this doesn't happen and the plant tries to grow until the very end. So how does it help anything to starve it? Isn't that like forcing an althete to go exercise in the sun without breakfast?
> 
> ...


aside from that ramble..

When I have my bud around vet growers, when I bring it to the dispense. they always ask that it be flushed properly.


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## lordjin (Dec 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Again I'll put three questions to the toilet cultivators...
> 
> 1. How exactly does flushing remove nutrients from the plant? Plants don't store raw chemical nutes nor do they "use them up".
> 
> ...


I Agree, Harrekin.


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 13, 2011)

lordjin said:


> I Agree, Harrekin.


100%........


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## lordjin (Dec 13, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> I see where you're coming from, but instead of leaning totally on.. Flushing wont help, it starves your plant. Why not think positive about your product & promote it as such, especially if using alot of chem nutes. I allow my plants 2-4days of Darkness before I chop, I flush heavily before last lights out. I know for Certain..my bud wont lose potency or gain much in that short period of time.. I know the long darkness may not add many more trichs or make a noticable diff.. but it is nice also Knowing that your bud you smoke had fresh water being ran through it even if for a short period of time before chop. One of those things. Nothing to lose, but you have a chance @ gaining something, even if it is minute.


Appreciated, but I've not come to my decision based on available information I've read. I've come to my conclusion based on the empirical evidence of my past grows. I've seen a direct link between flushing and reduced quality bud. But as I explained in my journal, my system is hyper accelerated, so even a few days with nothing but water can hurt my plants. The same may not be true for others.


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## Sunbiz1 (Dec 13, 2011)

watchhowIdoit said:


> http://shop.hobbylobby.com/products/microscope-set-with-case-717918/ Only 40 bucks, up to 900x power, plenty strong to see bacteria and fungi. Even contains some stain. I never said each and everyone of us could identify exact specimens. But you sure can get a feel for the populations your maintaining. And if the 'bug' gets you then identification of each becomes the next step.......continual learning Barney, continual learning...
> 
> Strep under 900x....


Hobby Lobby also carries glass canning jars, they were on sale for a buck each a few weeks ago.


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## SirLancelot (Dec 13, 2011)

Another question for those who flush is do you cure properly? I know everyone is going to say they do even if they don't but that could play a major role in ("sparky bud" lol oh because the chemicals are in the bud) or maybe it was dried a little too fast and is harsher a dryer than you prefer. just thinkin out loud. 

Try looking at the plant this way. The nutrients are like a steak for you and me. It's put onto your plate = the nutrients are put into the medium. 
you cut it up with a knife and chew it = your roots and all living things in your soil breaking the nutrients down to be eaten
You swallow a broken down piece of the steak = your plants break down the nutrients in the soil so it can be eaten by the plant. 

You can't certainly eat a 12oz in one bite it's gotta be broken down...


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 13, 2011)

With the availability of those little aquarium hygrometers everyone should be curing properly... No longer the art it use to be. Now just another controlled stage in the grow.....


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## SirLancelot (Dec 13, 2011)

unless you go cheap on hygroms...

Which i too was guilty of at first. but Im sure theres many others. there just too wildly innacurate.


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## RawBudzski (Dec 13, 2011)

I don't cure properly.. if you mean by the book curing. I have yet to get me a sealed area with perfect temp & humidifier / dehumid. Though right now with it being winterish & cool here in so cal. like 99% humidity right now up in the hills outside 41 degrees, raining slightly and cold as hell. My girls are much happier & when drying it takes twice as long to hang dry than in peak summer with 0 humidity & hot as hell.


SirLancelot said:


> Another question for those who flush is do you cure properly? I know everyone is going to say they do even if they don't but that could play a major role in ("sparky bud" lol oh because the chemicals are in the bud) or maybe it was dried a little too fast and is harsher a dryer than you prefer. just thinkin out loud.
> 
> Try looking at the plant this way. The nutrients are like a steak for you and me. It's put onto your plate = the nutrients are put into the medium.
> you cut it up with a knife and chew it = your roots and all living things in your soil breaking the nutrients down to be eaten
> ...


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 13, 2011)

SirLancelot said:


> unless you go cheap on hygroms...
> 
> Which i too was guilty of at first. but Im sure theres many others. there just too wildly innacurate.


definitely worth spending 10 bucks or so on them. You are so correct, the 3 dollar budget models suck....
If you want superb accuracy then get a high end desk top cigar humidor and steal the hygro out of it......


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## wbd (Dec 13, 2011)

watchhowIdoit said:


> definitely worth spending 10 bucks or so on them. You are so correct, the 3 dollar budget models suck....
> If you want superb accuracy then get a high end desk top cigar humidor and steal the hygro out of it......


This was my first garden using the hygrometers in the jar for curing. Man, what insight you get into the drying process... you're right, it's takes all of the guessing out. A real gamechanger.


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## bigv1976 (Dec 13, 2011)

For me it all boils down to this. Every profesional grower that I have ever read about and have respect for flushes their crop wether it be a soil or hydro grow. People love to argue the flushing debate on here til they are blue in the face many of whom have never completed a grow but if you read High Times you will not find 1 single pro that will tell you that you should not flush. I flush.


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## Harrekin (Dec 13, 2011)

bigv1976 said:


> For me it all boils down to this. Every profesional grower that I have ever read about and have respect for flushes their crop wether it be a soil or hydro grow. People love to argue the flushing debate on here til they are blue in the face many of whom have never completed a grow but if you read High Times you will not find 1 single pro that will tell you that you should not flush. I flush.


High Times also promote Advanced Nutrients and Grow Hermie Seed Company...they the authority on growing now? 

Or are the real pro's the farmers who have been growing all sorts of plants for generations who laugh heartily at this flushing before harvest bullshit that the far less horticulture-knowledgable general cannabis grower swallows hook, line and wink-wink even tho it has no basis in horticulture whatsoever?

Its not an "I think it works/doesn't" debate, it's more of a "go read how plants actually work before believing old bullshit hippy myths" debate.


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## lordjin (Dec 14, 2011)

Mad respect to flushers. I used to be one of them.

But I've done both, man. My plants not only didn't benefit from the flush, but taste, smell, and potency have been reduced by this plant starvation. It's really a simple matter of the mechanics of plant biology. When you give the plant light and air, it will grow... or at least it will try to grow because that's what every cell of it is programmed to do in light and air. Now if you give it nothing to feed on it will 'implode' in a sense as it feeds on itself in a desperate last ditch effort to reproduce. That's artificially induced stress. Light and air + no nutrients = stress. Not good for the plant, not good for the animal. Stressed livestock make for poor eats. 

Also, I have a hyper accelerated hydro system, so if I just run them with water even for a few days, the plants will eat themselves alive.

Lastly, consider the ganja plant (or any plant) growing in the wild. Is the earth ever flushed of its nutrients? Pow!


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## wbd (Dec 14, 2011)

lordjin said:


> Lastly, consider the ganja plant (or any plant) growing in the wild. Is the earth ever flushed of its nutrients? Pow!


If everyone grew ganja in the wild, this statement would be conclusive. But they don't, and plants growing in containers have different needs.


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 14, 2011)

Besides nutrient ratios, what does a container plant need that a plant in the ground does not need?


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## wbd (Dec 14, 2011)

watchhowIdoit said:


> Besides nutrient ratios, what does a container plant need that a plant in the ground does not need?


OK, let's start with transplanting. Discuss.


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 14, 2011)

What does transplanting have to do with flushing? And you dont have too transplant. Plant a bean in a 5 gallon bucket or 3 gallon pot and grow until harvest...


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## SirLancelot (Dec 14, 2011)

Don't forget to to a wear a loin cloth and do a chant around your plants when you flush I heard it can increase yield...


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## wbd (Dec 14, 2011)

watchhowIdoit said:


> What does transplanting have to do with flushing? And you dont have too transplant. Plant a bean in a 5 gallon bucket or 3 gallon pot and grow until harvest...


You have an answer for everything. 

I'd have to be a damn fool to go thru all this with you again. Dead horse.


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 14, 2011)

If you cant stand the heat then get out of the kitchen....


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## wbd (Dec 14, 2011)

watchhowIdoit said:


> If you cant stand the heat then get out of the kitchen....


It's not that I can't stand it, it's that it's redundant and boring. I don't see the point in having the same conversation more than once, do you? It's not like you'll be swayed, or are interested in reciprocal conversation. I say something, then you tell me how I'm wrong, rinse and repeat. I get it, it's OK.


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## SirLancelot (Dec 14, 2011)

Im always open to facts, but hesitant on theorys...


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## wbd (Dec 14, 2011)

SirLancelot said:


> Im always open to facts, but hesitant on theorys...


...but nothing beats firsthand experience!


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## lordjin (Dec 14, 2011)

wbd said:


> If everyone grew ganja in the wild, this statement would be conclusive. But they don't, and plants growing in containers have different needs.


My statement is conclusive whether people grow indoors, in pots, or in their kitchen sinks. Plants have been around and growing long before man developed fertilizers and long, long, long before man developed hydroponics. How is my statement that plants growing naturally in the earth never get flushed a conditional assertion true only if everyone is growing in the earth?

Debating isn't your strong suit.


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## SimonD (Dec 14, 2011)

bigv1976 said:


> For me it all boils down to this. Every profesional grower that I have ever read about and have respect for flushes their crop wether it be a soil or hydro grow. People love to argue the flushing debate on here til they are blue in the face many of whom have never completed a grow but *if you read High Times you will not find 1 single pro that will tell you that you should not flush*. I flush.


I'm a professional grower. Look me up on IC. Since you like to hear the voice of authority, my tutorials are posted all over the net, my plants and extracts have been used in advertising, and I do not flush. I do control the plants' nutrient intake and gear it appropriately toward harvest.

Simon


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## rocknratm (Dec 14, 2011)

has anyone posted side by side studies?
then do what works for you and shutup


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## wbd (Dec 14, 2011)

lordjin said:


> My statement is conclusive whether people grow indoors, in pots, or in their kitchen sinks. Plants have been around and growing long before man developed fertilizers and long, long, long before man developed hydroponics. How is my statement that plants growing naturally in the earth never get flushed a conditional assertion true only if everyone is growing in the earth?
> 
> Debating isn't your strong suit.


Containers are more likely to accumulate salts, therefore containers are more likely to require periodic flushing to eliminate excess salt buildups. You're not going to have that problem in the earth unless you're *way* overfeeding, and even then there's still no container to facilitate the kind of mineral buildups that get people into trouble.


You can call it corrective or preventative, whatever you prefer it's still a consideration for container plants above and beyond plants growing in the earth.


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## RockCreekRanger (Dec 14, 2011)

JEEP1, why are the leaves on the plant in your avatar so yellow?


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## lordjin (Dec 14, 2011)

RockCreekRanger said:


> JEEP1, why are the leaves on the plant in your avatar so yellow?


Translocation in late bloom.


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## bigloc (Dec 14, 2011)

well I dont have running water so I just dump a bucket of water into the bowl after I take my shits


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## lordjin (Dec 14, 2011)

wbd said:


> Containers are more likely to accumulate salts, therefore containers are more likely to require periodic flushing to eliminate excess salt buildups. You're not going to have that problem in the earth unless you're *way* overfeeding, and even then there's still no container to facilitate the kind of mineral buildups that get people into trouble.
> 
> 
> You can call it corrective or preventative, whatever you prefer it's still a consideration for container plants above and beyond plants growing in the earth.


I agree. One must periodically flush their system to prevent toxic salt buildup. But that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about the prolonged week to two week flush people do at the end of flower. I don't agree with it anymore, but still purge my system weekly between water changes.

As fanciful as it sounds for someone who relies so heavily on technology, I like to think that I'm artificially simulating ideal outdoor conditions 24/7. That means I try to fool my plants into thinking the water filled tub is actually the cold, fertile soil of the ground, the naturally occurring soil of the earth that is never flushed of all its nutriment.


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## midijunkie (Dec 14, 2011)

plants love a good flush whether in soil or h20. my plants always look alot better a week after a good flush. when it rains, your plants get flushed. plants grow naturally outside. recreate nature for A+ buds.


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## SirLancelot (Dec 14, 2011)

rocknratm said:


> has anyone posted side by side studies?
> then do what works for you and shutup


I have three times! but what would be the point in posting the results. If I came to a conclusion you didn't agree with on say taste how can I proove this too you over the internet? this is why I haven't wasted the time to do a journal. I've done it 3 times each time I had bomb as nug and couldn't tell a single difference in yield nor could I tell a single difference in plants that were flushed and not. SO how can I do the test and get you to believe the results? If I say I can't taste a difference it's not something you can see in a forum.


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## potpimp (Dec 14, 2011)

midijunkie said:


> when it rains, your plants get flushed. plants grow naturally outside. recreate nature for A+ buds.


In nature, plants do not get salt buildup. After reading the last few posts I may have come up with something good. I know LordJin does true aero and is a master at it (if you're not you just have dead plants). I love growing in hydro for many reasons, control being #1. I can see there being a buildup on salts in soil, but not hydro. What if someone growing in containers flushed two weeks before the chop, getting rid of all the buildup, then went right back to giving nutes. Would that be beneficial? Would it not solve both problems of flushing _and_ giving the plants their nutes to the end? It's just an idea that I would like to see discussed.


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## Impman (Dec 14, 2011)

FLUSH YOUR BUD for god sake!!! it is the fifference between top shelf and cheaper meds at my club. hey organic people flush your damn bud! no one likes the taste of bat shit. Flushing is freaking key to healthy fresh tasting buds and not to mention flushing ADDS PoTENCY!


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 14, 2011)

Impman said:


> FLUSH YOUR BUD for god sake!!! it is the fifference between top shelf and cheaper meds at my club. hey organic people flush your damn bud! no one likes the taste of bat shit. Flushing is freaking key to healthy fresh tasting buds and not to mention flushing ADDS PoTENCY!


Its a shame you dont know what your talking about. thank goodness for the ignore function....


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## k0ijn (Dec 14, 2011)

SirLancelot said:


> Im always open to facts, but hesitant on theorys...


As are most experienced growers.
The newbies however, that's a different story.

Didn't you hear about the theory on putting juice in your reservoir to improve taste and trichome production?
To me, these kinds of theories go along side the theories people put out saying leaching or flushing improves taste, trichome production and envigors plant growth.

All serious growers do experiments, and all I know have come to the same conclusions, doing side by side experiments, leaching is only good for removing mineral buildup or correcting reservoir errors.


I recently did an experiment with leaching on my G13 x Haze plants (I had 3). 
1 was given regular nutrient rich water, no leaching, no special remedies.
1 was given pure RO water for the last 13 days.
1 was given a lowered EC solution (less nutrients).

All were dried and cured in the same room, in completely similar conditions, with the same glasses.

There was no difference in taste, colour, odour, harshness or high.
I had 4 people testing the weed afterwards (close friends). 

This is the 4th time I've done this experiment over many years, not once has there been any difference in the final product.
Neither have outsiders with zero growing experience been able to tell any difference.


Since people believe so much bullshit these days however, without any rational or logical arguments to its merit, it doesn't surprise me how many people believe in leaching.

The same questions are posed 10 times each week and it'll never stop.


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## SirLancelot (Dec 14, 2011)

lol no I haven't heard that one but I could see people believeing it. 

My favorite is the people who use flushing chemicals to flush the chemicals out of their soil. HA what sense that makes.


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## potpimp (Dec 14, 2011)

I've heard that if you drive a rusty nail through the stalk, then add some cat piss, on a full moon, standing on your left leg, with your eyes crossed that it increases the THC by 10%. Noobs talk this shit that they have read on forums as if it is gospel truth. No wonder it takes so long to learn this. After finding some true master growers I have embraced their philosophy: it's a fucking plant, just like every other fucking plant. We're dealing with basic botany and growing, not some strange unknown plant from Mars.


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## lordjin (Dec 14, 2011)

midijunkie said:


> plants love a good flush whether in soil or h20. my plants always look alot better a week after a good flush. when it rains, your plants get flushed. plants grow naturally outside. recreate nature for A+ buds.


When it rains your plants gets flushed? And does God remove all the nutrients from the earth during this flush?


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## lordjin (Dec 14, 2011)

potpimp said:


> I've heard that if you drive a rusty nail through the stalk, then add some cat piss, on a full moon, standing on your left leg, with your eyes crossed that it increases the THC by 10%. Noobs talk this shit that they have read on forums as if it is gospel truth. No wonder it takes so long to learn this. After finding some true master growers I have embraced their philosophy: it's a fucking plant, just like every other fucking plant. We're dealing with basic botany and growing, not some strange unknown plant from Mars.


You know how many grows I fucked up before I figured out flushing is bullshit? Frustrating. In my system flushing not only doesn't improve anything, it causes the plants to rapidly feed on themselves, which reduces final potency. That 's what I get for believing all these myths about flushing. There was even a point when I was preaching the virtues of flushing at one of the local clubs. What an idiot. Good thing there weren't any growers around at the time. Lol.


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## potpimp (Dec 14, 2011)

lordjin said:


> You know how many grows I fucked up before I figured out flushing is bullshit? Frustrating. In my system flushing not only doesn't improve anything, it causes the plants to rapidly feed on themselves, which reduces final potency. That 's what I get for believing all these myths about flushing. There was even a point when I was preaching the virtues of flushing at one of the local clubs. What an idiot. Good thing there weren't any growers around at the time. Lol.


I'm right there with you bro. I've said many times that I've discovered probably every possible way to fuck up a grow; I've done it all. Fortunately I've learned from those mistakes and not made them again. Even harder than growing is sorting out the junk on here. There are so many myths that are just plain wrong. Take a gardening class and become a "Master Gardener" like Uncle Ben; that will teach you more about how to grow this stuff than anything.


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## Sunbiz1 (Dec 14, 2011)

lordjin said:


> You know how many grows I fucked up before I figured out flushing is bullshit? Frustrating. In my system flushing not only doesn't improve anything, it causes the plants to rapidly feed on themselves, which reduces final potency. That 's what I get for believing all these myths about flushing. There was even a point when I was preaching the virtues of flushing at one of the local clubs. What an idiot. Good thing there weren't any growers around at the time. Lol.


I knew there was a valid reason I don't flush in-ground grows. Flushing is necessary for Fox Farms apparently though, they sell there own flush...gee I wonder why.


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## SirLancelot (Dec 14, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> I knew there was a valid reason I don't flush in-ground grows. Flushing is necessary for Fox Farms apparently though, they sell there own flush...gee I wonder why.


Marketing at it's finest


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## Sunbiz1 (Dec 14, 2011)

SirLancelot said:


> Marketing at it's finest


Their sales reps keep calling on local nurseries/supply centers...aggressive company right now.


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 14, 2011)

But Grow Big and Tiger Bloom are still great products to use. I just love them. The rest of the lineup is pretty much just tossing cash dont the drain...


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## wbd (Dec 14, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> I knew there was a valid reason I don't flush in-ground grows. Flushing is necessary for Fox Farms apparently though, they sell there own flush...gee I wonder why.


To make more money.

But it's worth pointing out they didn't always have their flushing product... but periodic flushing has always been a recommended part of their feeding schedule.


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## potpimp (Dec 14, 2011)

I think most companies have their own "snake oil" and "rocket fuel" that growers can't live without. I'm one of the suckers that plunked down about $500 for nearly the full line of advanced nutes. I just happened to be doing a soil grow in the same cabinet and it outperformed the AN. They should give a complimentary lab coat with their shit; I felt like a scientist with my chart, calculator, pipet and graduated cylinder; every two days it was nearly an hour of worthless effort.


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## wbd (Dec 14, 2011)

lordjin said:


> You know how many grows I fucked up before I figured out flushing is bullshit?


Huh?

I used to flush for harvest, but eventually tried without and like k0ijn didn't notice a difference... so I stopped. All things being equal, simpler is better -- especially in growing.

But I never fucked up anything from flushing, what do you mean by that? Just not happy with the final product?


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## Sunbiz1 (Dec 14, 2011)

wbd said:


> To make more money.
> 
> But it's worth pointing out they didn't always have their flushing product... but periodic flushing has always been a recommended part of their feeding schedule.


Have you taken a good look at how many growers have gotten themselves into the problem section here with FF?...quite a few. Their soil blends are loaded to begin with, and adding anything on top of them is overdosing a weed.


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## mr. green thumb 01 (Dec 14, 2011)

If no one can tell a difference in flushing or not flushing then your wasting money on nutes at the end imo. I flush for 3 days though. 1st day with flushing agent 2 days ro water. Un flushed seems to burn not as smooth and hurts my throat after smoking large quantitys. Im not saying flushing doesnt decrease yield but thats why i only do it for 3days. I swear all the commercial shit I get from CALI from you PROFESSIONALS isn't flushed. It always hurts my throat and never burns smooth. What makes you a professional? lol how do I become one? Farmers dont flush because they cant. They do rinse though and we cant. Stuff you grow and eat is different than stuff you grow and smoke. If you want to pump out mad commercial weight by all means dont flush and let your shit get over ripe (a whole different argument) But imo if you want connoisseur quality you flush.


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## wbd (Dec 14, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> Have you taken a good look at how many growers have gotten themselves into the problem section here with FF?...quite a few. Their soil blends are loaded to begin with, and adding anything on top of them is overdosing a weed.


If you ever take some of their Grow Big or Tiger Bloom ferts and spill a little and let it evaporate, there is a ton of salt left behind. There's no way that all of shit is getting rinsed out of a container by normal waterings, it will accumulate. I can understand their recommendation to flush periodically...


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## wbd (Dec 14, 2011)

For a bottle of flushing agent you can get 1, maybe 2 nice hygrometers. Easy choice. It's all in the cure.


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## IntrepidTraveler420 (Dec 14, 2011)

Very nice posts guys! Solves my dilemma, I don&#8217;t think the ladies could have handled a 2 week flush. The harlequin has been what looks to be calcium deficient for some time, and the Pre98Bubba looks to be hurting for some nutes too. I&#8217;m 4 days into the flush, but think its time to put &#8216;em back on the good shit&#8230; at least up until the 4th day before harvest. yyyyeeeeeehhhhhaaaaaaaaa!!!


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## SirLancelot (Dec 14, 2011)

wbd said:


> For a bottle of flushing agent you can get 1, maybe 2 nice hygrometers. Easy choice. It's all in the cure.


just wanted to like this twice, lol I feel that not flushing gets a bad wrap mostly due to an inproper cure.


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## potpimp (Dec 14, 2011)

Cure??? My son bought some weed here in Anchorage and it was still soft and supple; it had just been cut!! I'm letting it dry now. Oh well, at least it's good pot.


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## CheapJoe (Dec 14, 2011)

How many here have actually read a biology book; otherwise opinions are like assholes, and there is a lot of ass on this thread.


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## potpimp (Dec 14, 2011)

I've had several years of biology, just not botany.


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## SirLancelot (Dec 14, 2011)

CheapJoe said:


> How many here have actually read a biology book; otherwise opinions are like assholes, and there is a lot of ass on this thread.


Please enlighten us


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## CheapJoe (Dec 14, 2011)

Get over yourself

I doubt anyone here has done a true scientific test/approach covered all the variables or even half of the opinions has a hypothesis on how this shit works, let alone could describe a hypertonic solution or water potential.

BUT WHATEVER

I don't give a shit on your opinion, I'm saying is no one on earth knows the real depths of cell chemistry as most is yet to be discovered.

Recently photosynthesis has had some interest on how quantum physics plays a role in photosynthesis so while you down play your roots THE ROOTS OF MANKIND AND ALL LIFE ON EARTH, the roots that make up the very fabric of our lives when you don't have the slightest idea of the the INCREDIBLY complex processes at work underneath your nose.

Biology is the key to our future it holds medical secretes, cures, the means to develop efficient rebuild-able supplies of food and energy.




You SIR can shove it!


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## potpimp (Dec 14, 2011)

*asshole alert!!! Asshole alert!!!*


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## SirLancelot (Dec 14, 2011)

CheapJoe said:


> Get over yourself
> 
> 
> Recently photosynthesis has had some interest on how quantum physics plays a role in photosynthesis so while you down play your roots THE ROOTS OF MANKIND AND ALL LIFE ON EARTH, the roots that make up the very fabric of our lives when you don't have the slightest idea of the the INCREDIBLY complex processes at work underneath your nose.


Ohhh really? like what? Im always open to hearing something new. Since you seem to have emense knowledge of the subject you shouldn't have a problem shedding some light. 

BTW no one ever down played roots im confused? I understand roots are essential and break down the nutrients in the soil so the plant can use it as food/energy.


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## potpimp (Dec 14, 2011)

CheapJoe said:


> Get over yourself
> 
> I doubt anyone here has done a true scientific test/approach covered all the variables or even half of the opinions has a hypothesis on how this shit works, let alone could describe a hypertonic solution or water potential.
> 
> ...


This thread is about "flushing", in case you didn't notice. I realize that the OP's post may not be as important as your need to show your pedantic knowledge, but if you persist in flaming other members - long-standing members, you're going to have a very short stay here Einstein.


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## SimonD (Dec 14, 2011)

CheapJoe said:


> Get over yourself
> 
> I doubt anyone here has done a true scientific test/approach covered all the variables or even half of the opinions has a hypothesis on how this shit works, let alone could describe a hypertonic solution or water potential.
> 
> ...


Your comments piqued my curiosity, so I took a quick look at your other posts, including the one where you advocate the use of aluminum foil as a reflective material based on a citation in Wikipedia. Fortunately, cultivation is an applied pursuit, not theoretical. As such, one's competence is easily assessed by a representation of his work. Can you please post a few pics of the plants you have grown and harvested (including something for scale)? 

Simon


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## Sunbiz1 (Dec 14, 2011)

wbd said:


> If you ever take some of their Grow Big or Tiger Bloom ferts and spill a little and let it evaporate, there is a ton of salt left behind. There's no way that all of shit is getting rinsed out of a container by normal waterings, it will accumulate. I can understand their recommendation to flush periodically...


Miracle grow potting soil does the same, you can see the salt residuals left on top after watering....not a good thing imho.


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## CheapJoe (Dec 14, 2011)

SimonD said:


> Your comments piqued my curiosity, so I took a quick look at your other posts, including the one where you advocate the use of aluminum foil as a reflective material based on a citation in Wikipedia. Fortunately, cultivation is an applied pursuit, not theoretical. As such, one's competence is easily assessed by a representation of his work. Can you please post a few pics of the plants you have grown and harvested (including something for scale)?
> 
> Simon


Dear Simon,

Science has been and will always be based on theories before proven factual. Theories are the cognitive thought based on hefty amounts of analysis and record keeping to thoroughly and rigorously test and defunct true and false ideas, which often lead to new discoveries and new equations that could change the entire way of looking at and perceiving things.
So yeah no sht; but without rigorous testing and analysis how can anyone here advocate anything. What based on Manufactures? Salesmen will say whatever to get what they want, just look at the presidency.

There's a lot too it; people can get the basics down; but it takes a lifetime to master a field with so much unknown ground to cover only now has society allowed us to make _some_ breakthroughs.

Who knows if you'll ever see anything from me, thanks anyway though. Perhaps some melons or my berries.


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## CheapJoe (Dec 14, 2011)

well here is a bone:

View attachment 1935758View attachment 1935759View attachment 1935760View attachment 1935761View attachment 1935762View attachment 1935763View attachment 1935764View attachment 1935765


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 15, 2011)

mr. green thumb 01 said:


> If no one can tell a difference in flushing or not flushing then your wasting money on nutes at the end imo. I flush for 3 days though. 1st day with flushing agent 2 days ro water. Un flushed seems to burn not as smooth and hurts my throat after smoking large quantitys. Im not saying flushing doesnt decrease yield but thats why i only do it for 3days. I swear all the commercial shit I get from CALI from you PROFESSIONALS isn't flushed. It always hurts my throat and never burns smooth. What makes you a professional? lol how do I become one? Farmers dont flush because they cant. They do rinse though and we cant. Stuff you grow and eat is different than stuff you grow and smoke. If you want to pump out mad commercial weight by all means dont flush and let your shit get over ripe (a whole different argument) But imo if you want connoisseur quality you flush.


I am a farmer, have been all my life. We wouldnt flush if we could. We want to get the most out of our crops as possible. And the only thing I 'rinse' around the farm are my tractors. And yes, my tractors are very sexy......


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## SirLancelot (Dec 15, 2011)

CheapJoe said:


> Dear Simon,
> 
> Science has been and will always be based on theories before proven factual. Theories are the cognitive thought based on hefty amounts of analysis and record keeping to thoroughly and rigorously test and defunct true and false ideas, which often lead to new discoveries and new equations that could change the entire way of looking at and perceiving things.
> So yeah no sht; but without rigorous testing and analysis how can anyone here advocate anything. What based on Manufactures? Salesmen will say whatever to get what they want, just look at the presidency.
> ...


You've avoided my question? I am very curious to hear your knowledge. 

Infact you've pretty much avoided all positive inputs for this thread. Whats your point of being here to show you know wht the definition of science is? I was hoping you had some insight on flushing, you act like you do. no one ever claimed to be master nor did anyone ever say they have got it completely figured out. But us who have taken the time to control a few variables possible and try to expirement are way ahead of you my friend. We are doing something about it not just talking about it.


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## Illegal Smile (Dec 15, 2011)

I keep asking this question and it is never answered. I think the lack of an answer ought to tell you all you need to know about flushing. The question:

"Where is the "stuff" that flushing supposedly removes flushed TO?"

No-one can answer because roots cannot leech anything back into water (or soil). The only way flushing can remove anything is if the plant is starved for weeks so that the nutes are metabolized out. That's about as smart as using leeches to suck the blood from a patient.


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## SimonD (Dec 15, 2011)

CheapJoe said:


> Dear Simon,
> 
> Science has been and will always be based on theories before proven factual. Theories are the cognitive thought based on hefty amounts of analysis and record keeping to thoroughly and rigorously test and defunct true and false ideas, which often lead to new discoveries and new equations that could change the entire way of looking at and perceiving things.
> So yeah no sht; but without rigorous testing and analysis how can anyone here advocate anything. What based on Manufactures? Salesmen will say whatever to get what they want, just look at the presidency.
> ...


You don't seem to understand the difference between a theory and a hypothesis, and the nature of the scientific process as a whole. Ironic to say the least. 



> Who knows if you'll ever see anything from me, thanks anyway though. Perhaps some melons or my berries.


Right, no plants.



CheapJoe said:


> well here is a bone:


I'm sitting here wondering how anyone could post something like this, aimed at folks who actually grow weed, and think that he has the bull by the balls. Boggles the mind.

I come to this forum to help folks with curing, so I usually stay away from threads like these. Now I find myself talking to someone who's, in essence, full of crap. I hope you understand if this is the last you hear from me.

Simon


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## wbd (Dec 15, 2011)

Sunbiz1 said:


> Miracle grow potting soil does the same, you can see the salt residuals left on top after watering....not a good thing imho.


Definitely not, left unchecked it will cause all sorts of problems. Flushing every 30 days (and I still use an organic fert during these flushes, to keep the soil rich) seems to keep any trouble at bay.


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## Sunbiz1 (Dec 15, 2011)

wbd said:


> Definitely not, left unchecked it will cause all sorts of problems. Flushing every 30 days (and I still use an organic fert during these flushes, to keep the soil rich) seems to keep any trouble at bay.


I should be fine with my organic soil, worm castings, and mushroom compost. I see no reason why I would want to drown my poor microbes.


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## KushDog (Dec 15, 2011)

From what i understand is when the plant is in it final stages, it is makeing all the good stuff, and you dont want to give it ferts when it is in the final stages. You can all smoke your nasty unflushed pot, whille i smok my nice smotth organic cannabis. more power too the uninformed LOL smh


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## Harrekin (Dec 15, 2011)

How exactly do organic and chemical nutrients differ once absorbed by the roots? Is organic Nitrogen not Nitrogen or something? Is organic phosphorous not phosphorous?

Organic is great if youre "into" that sort of thing, but it's way overhyped. I find it an inexact, slow delivery system for nutes, some people like it more, but the plant ultimately uptakes and utilises the same elements in the same way regardless of whether it came from shit or from a rock.


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## anotherdaymusic (Dec 15, 2011)

I like to give my plant water until i chop it... it really doesnt make sense to me or mother nature to starve it for a week or more before harvest, it slows down growth and the buds wont keep growing... seems like a horrible idea...


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## Harrekin (Dec 15, 2011)

With all Iv said I'll point out that even tho I said I feed to harvest, you can reduce the amount of feed provided purely cos the plant doesn't use as much at the end. Still no need to flush tho


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## RawBudzski (Dec 15, 2011)

Anytime I have donated to a clinic or to an older hippie they always Ask & make sure I flushed.. So even if someone could change my mind in flushings effectiveness.. People here in cali who are Serious about bud normally poo-poo bud that has not been flushed. Whether you like how it smokes or not, that's great. But whether it is able to satisfy others who medicate is also a bid deal to me. 

So I flush. If flushing is pointless & I am saving a little nutes.. oh well I can @ least give people the answer they wanna hear when medicating w/ me.


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## KushDog (Dec 15, 2011)

ok, so you should feed full streath all the way to harvest for best tasteing/ burning weed.

DO not flush at all, keep feeding till the end. make sure all your leave stay dark green . insted just give the plants some ferts in stead. it won't hurt be cause plants don't aborb ferts... 

Why do people give bad advise???? what ever, i do it my way , and you can do it the wrong way


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## Harrekin (Dec 15, 2011)

KushDog said:


> ok, so you should feed full streath all the way to harvest for best tasteing/ burning weed.
> 
> DO not flush at all, keep feeding till the end. make sure all your leave stay dark green . insted just give the plants some ferts in stead. it won't hurt be cause plants don't aborb ferts...
> 
> Why do people give bad advise???? what ever, i do it my way , and you can do it the wrong way


You're way oversimplifying what I said there man. I said reduce ferts at the end because the plant uses less ferts at the end than it does at peak flower. 

And flushing is stupid, just don't overfeed (burn foliage) and dry/cure properly. It'll end up the exact same product. 
Let me hit you with a simple one, try quick drying some of your "flushed" weed and smoke it. It'll be exactly the same as the unflushed, cos your smoothness and taste come from slow drying and curing.


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## Harrekin (Dec 15, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> Anytime I have donated to a clinic or to an older hippie they always Ask & make sure I flushed.. So even if someone could change my mind in flushings effectiveness.. People here in cali who are Serious about bud normally poo-poo bud that has not been flushed. Whether you like how it smokes or not, that's great. But whether it is able to satisfy others who medicate is also a bid deal to me.
> 
> So I flush. If flushing is pointless & I am saving a little nutes.. oh well I can @ least give people the answer they wanna hear when medicating w/ me.


You could just say it is, if they believe it and you've dried and cured properly it may aswell be flushed, cos its all in the dry and cure, not the mythical "handle pull".


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## RawBudzski (Dec 15, 2011)

Why lie for a pointless reason. Do you believe feeding till the last day will make that bud more potent than had it been fed with water the last wk or two. Because once you begin feeding water, there are still nutes in the soil so that could be considered feeding less towards the end.. & the last wk or few days would be Mostly clean soil. It's not like when you are two weeks out and begin watering plain water, BAM the plant is starving and losing its ability to grow.. The plant finishes up what is in the soil then moves onto the fan leaves. I consider that flushing, & the plant still getting nutes but at a less amount. Perfection  

& you CAN smell the diff in Hydro if one was to use the Full line of AN to the last day full stregnth It smells chemmy..which some mistake as being "potent".


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## lordjin (Dec 15, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> Anytime I have donated to a clinic or to an older hippie they always Ask & make sure I flushed.. So even if someone could change my mind in flushings effectiveness.. People here in cali who are Serious about bud normally poo-poo bud that has not been flushed. Whether you like how it smokes or not, that's great. But whether it is able to satisfy others who medicate is also a bid deal to me.
> 
> So I flush. If flushing is pointless & I am saving a little nutes.. oh well I can @ least give people the answer they wanna hear when medicating w/ me.


You could also take the opportunity to educate those you're medicating with that they're misguided. 

I'd like to meet the patient or collective who will poo poo on this bud when I tell them it wasn't flushed.





What I'm doing is letting them drink on 650ppm of base and calmag for the last week or so. As they drink and lower the ppm, I'm not replenishing... simply letting my external auto top dilute it down as it drinks. It's down to 590ppm from Sat when I performed the final 30 minute flush and water change. The plants are loving this. The leaves are yellowing nicely, but they're not drying up and dying off. This is what you want to see. And if a patient or collective questions my method of not flushing, I'll simply educate them with my dankest of OG. My OG will change your mind and set you free.


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## Harrekin (Dec 15, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> Why lie for a pointless reason. Do you believe feeding till the last day will make that bud more potent than had it been fed with water the last wk or two. Because once you begin feeding water, there are still nutes in the soil so that could be considered feeding less towards the end.. & the last wk or few days would be Mostly clean soil. It's not like when you are two weeks out and begin watering plain water, BAM the plant is starving and losing its ability to grow.. The plant finishes up what is in the soil then moves onto the fan leaves. I consider that flushing, & the plant still getting nutes but at a less amount. Perfection
> 
> & you CAN smell the diff in Hydro if one was to use the Full line of AN to the last day full stregnth It smells chemmy..which some mistake as being "potent".


Because keeping your leaves green keeps photosynthesis at its highest possible level? Why lower the effectiveness of what your plant uses to make food? For what is a glorified "feel good factor"?


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## RawBudzski (Dec 15, 2011)

That is my point, Regardless of what it looks like, it would be looked down on. Looks are not everything my friend. I too have plenty of sexified pix & grown plenty of dank. 

Flushing in soil takes loner than hydro imo you can get away with several days to a week of plain water with hydro and be fine.. with no leaves falling off.

That was what I was trying to point out, many people grow dank bud that looks amazing.. many have diff opinions on flushing. Unflushed bud looks no prettier than flushed bud when properly cured ^_^..thus when the Question is Asked.. what will you say. :O


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## lordjin (Dec 15, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> Why lie for a pointless reason. Do you believe feeding till the last day will make that bud more potent than had it been fed with water the last wk or two. Because once you begin feeding water, there are still nutes in the soil so that could be considered feeding less towards the end.. & the last wk or few days would be Mostly clean soil. It's not like when you are two weeks out and begin watering plain water, BAM the plant is starving and losing its ability to grow.. The plant finishes up what is in the soil then moves onto the fan leaves. I consider that flushing, & the plant still getting nutes but at a less amount. Perfection
> 
> & you CAN smell the diff in Hydro if one was to use the Full line of AN to the last day full stregnth It smells chemmy..which some mistake as being "potent".


But that's what it means in hydro. Two weeks in, bam, no nutes, bam the plant is starving and feeding on itself. That's hydro, though. I already made the comment that the two (hydro and soil) should be treated differently on this topic.

The gradual nute reduction with hydro that I'm doing is probably pretty analogous to pouring water in soil the last week or so. So when you think about it, we're doing the same thing in different mediums. It's just a matter of semantics at this point.


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## lordjin (Dec 15, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> That is my point, Regardless of what it looks like, it would be looked down on. Looks are not everything my friend. I too have plenty of sexified pix & grown plenty of dank.
> 
> Flushing in soil takes loner than hydro imo you can get away with several days to a week of plain water with hydro and be fine.. with no leaves falling off.
> 
> That was what I was trying to point out, many people grow dank bud that looks amazing.. many have diff opinions on flushing. Unflushed bud looks no prettier than flushed bud when properly cured ^_^..thus when the Question is Asked.. what will you say. :O


You're being unrealistic, dude. No one is gonna poo poo on my bud. Why? because in the real world, people are realistic and don't give a fuck about a flush as long as your shit looks and smells killer. Let's be real. Most heads in the scene don't even know what a flush is.

I've been vending to snobby fucking LA shops for years. Guess how many times a buying shop has asked if I flushed? You got it. Zero. "Regardless of what it looks like?" Now you're talking out of your ass. How else do those skeptical fuckers you're trying to vend to evaluate your bud? That's right. Appearance, aroma, and maybe a light squeeze of a nug or two. They can't smoke it right then and there. So I'm calling that you're pretty much bullshitting. And even if they did take a hit right there on the shop floor, that still doesn't tell a person immediately what finishing process the bud underwent.

That's like saying a shop manager will say, "I'll take this one that looks shitty and heat-stressed and has hardly any crystals because it was flushed. That super dense frosty shit that wasn't flushed I don't need."

Let's take a vote. How many people would refuse my bud because it wasn't 'flushed' by Raw's definition of it? I'm waiting...

Edit:
Wait just a minute. You're instructing me on hyroponic growing now? After I said I stopped flushing through direct physical evidence that it was hurting my plants? You're stepping out of line real quick.


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## anotherdaymusic (Dec 15, 2011)

flushing should only apply in hydro soil has nutes in it so flushing soil would be pointless


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## RawBudzski (Dec 15, 2011)

Which is why I ask, do you really believe that darker shade of green fan leaves will leave you with More Potent Bud? When talking about days to a week of growth. I highly Doubt the Effects of the THC would/could be detected by even a lab when comparing a 1wk flushed compared to a non flushed. So when if it comes down to people just "thinking" they are smoking cleaner bud. Why not. It is the way it is, some people don't mind a mite or two.. Clinics will put your Bud on the BIG SCREEN TV and POINT OUT EVERY FLAW. 


Harrekin said:


> Because keeping your leaves green keeps photosynthesis at its highest possible level? Why lower the effectiveness of what your plant uses to make food? For what is a glorified "feel good factor"?


I personally have not noticed a diff in my bud when using soil from 1wk to a 2wk flush of plain water+ molasses. But I have had a fellow grower show me a batch of Bud he Regretted not flushing in Hydro. He fed full serving of AN till the chop day & it was not the same as his last batch of the same bud. It smelled more chemically, many smokers who diddn't know better would mistake it as being Super dank gasoline smell.. which was not the case.


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## lordjin (Dec 15, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> Which is why I ask, do you really believe that darker shade of green fan leaves will leave you with More Potent Bud? When talking about days to a week of growth. I highly Doubt the Effects of the THC would/could be detected by even a lab when comparing a 1wk flushed compared to a non flushed. So when if it comes down to people just "thinking" they are smoking cleaner bud. Why not. It is the way it is, some people don't mind a mite or two.. Clinics will put your Bud on the BIG SCREEN TV and POINT OUT EVERY FLAW.
> 
> 
> I personally have not noticed a diff in my bud when using soil from 1wk to a 2wk flush of plain water+ molasses. But I have had a fellow grower show me a batch of Bud he Regretted not flushing in Hydro. He fed full serving of AN till the chop day & it was not the same as his last batch of the same bud. It smelled more chemically, many smokers who diddn't know better would mistake it as being Super dank gasoline smell.. which was not the case.


He fucked up because he gave it too much at the end, not because he didn't give it nothing at all.


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## lordjin (Dec 15, 2011)

anotherdaymusic said:


> flushing should only apply in hydro soil has nutes in it so flushing soil would be pointless


Wrong again.


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## Izoc666 (Dec 15, 2011)

i will flush my soilless or soil when its come to def issues that i fucked up by overfeed. I dont flush for harvest...like lordjin i do graually nutes down every water before i harvest.

666


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## RawBudzski (Dec 15, 2011)

You are correct, I was referring to soil. Hydro will visibly decline & die off fast with 2wks plain water.  


lordjin said:


> But that's what it means in hydro. Two weeks in, bam, no nutes, bam the plant is starving and feeding on itself. That's hydro, though. I already made the comment that the two (hydro and soil) should be treated differently on this topic.
> 
> The gradual nute reduction with hydro that I'm doing is probably pretty analogous to pouring water in soil the last week or so. So when you think about it, we're doing the same thing in different mediums. It's just a matter of semantics at this point.


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## RawBudzski (Dec 15, 2011)

His solution was to go back to plain water for several days to a week.  
Trying to find the perfect calculation of how much to add within that week as to keep the leaves green yet not smell funny.. seems like pointless wrk.  its only a week, & there is MORE than Enough Energy stored in the plant to finish up over several days.


lordjin said:


> He fucked up because he gave it too much at the end, not because he didn't give it nothing at all.


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## KushDog (Dec 15, 2011)

why do people give bad info, are they trying to make sure people have bad meds or what. SMH


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## SirLancelot (Dec 15, 2011)

It's kind of rediculous to argue flushing increases or decreases anything because whenver side by side no one can tell. I thought the argument was on taste? Which is also rediculous to argue if flushing improves taste or not. because NO ONE! can tell a blind taste test difference. and when you truly do one not just say you do then you will understand. I bought into flushing because "thats what all the cool kids did" untill I started taking matters into my own hands. After 3 seperate tests with almost the exact same variables for every plant (or atleast everything I could control) Everytime someone does a blind tasting you know what i get.... "Uuhhhh man idk there all good" I get people guessing the bud that isn't flushed is and the one that is isn't. It's a fucking plant, like every other living fucking plant. nothing new or special about it


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## RawBudzski (Dec 15, 2011)

I wouldn't call it bad. ^_^ I call it, info nobody is certain of. So why not play is safe & make things less complicated? Like Less is More, especially when it comes to new growers. 
I understand if a vet has his strain dialed in, & he knows exactly how much to feed and what his plant can take to produce the best buds.. But for someone beginning a new strain or growing all together, I do not understand why anyone would tell them not to flush. Assuming there grow was not PERFECT, I would play it safe & run some clean water past those roots before chop.


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## SirLancelot (Dec 15, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> But for someone beginning a new strain or growing all together, I do not understand why anyone would tell them not to flush. Assuming there grow was not PERFECT, I would play it safe & run some clean water past those roots before chop.


good point


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## KUShSOurSMOKEr (Dec 15, 2011)

So thats like the 100th person who said they cant tel the difference..

I think ima at least water a few purified water thru my plats before chop like rawbud said! 

sour.


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## SirLancelot (Dec 15, 2011)

KUShSOurSMOKEr said:


> So thats like the 100th person who said they cant tel the difference..
> 
> I think ima at least water a few purified water thru my plats before chop like rawbud said!
> 
> sour.


That's the only way to find out what works because none of these assholes not even me (yes an asshole too) knows what works best for you nor what taste you prefer. note that I've grown out plants before and not flushed two of them and they both tasted different. Their is alot more to a buds taste than we know, and flushing is just the first attempt to understand.


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## idontlikefoxnews (Dec 15, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> How exactly do organic and chemical nutrients differ once absorbed by the roots? Is organic Nitrogen not Nitrogen or something? Is organic phosphorous not phosphorous?
> 
> *Exactly See Below*
> 
> Organic is great if youre "into" that sort of thing, but it's way overhyped. I find it an inexact, slow delivery system for nutes, some people like it more, but the plant ultimately uptakes and utilises the same elements in the same way regardless of whether it came from shit or from a rock.


"
*Phosphorus(III) compounds*

Phosphine (PH[SUB]3[/SUB]) and its organic derivatives (PR[SUB]3[/SUB]) are structural analogues with ammonia (NH[SUB]3[/SUB]) but the angles at phosphorus are closer to 90° for phosphine and its organic derivatives. It is an ill-smelling, toxic compound. Phosphine is produced by hydrolysis of calcium phosphide, Ca[SUB]3[/SUB]P[SUB]2[/SUB]. Unlike ammonia, phosphine is oxidised by air. Phosphine is also far less basic than ammonia.
All four symmetrical trihalides are well known: gaseous PF[SUB]3[/SUB], the yellowish liquids PCl[SUB]3[/SUB] and PBr[SUB]3[/SUB], and the solid PI[SUB]3[/SUB]. These materials are moisture sensitive, hydrolysing to give phosphorus acid. The trichloride, a common reagent, is produced by chlorination of white phosphorus:
P[SUB]4[/SUB] + 6 Cl[SUB]2[/SUB] &#8594; 4 PCl[SUB]3[/SUB] The trifluoride is produced by from the trichloride by halide exchange. PF[SUB]3[/SUB] is toxic because it binds to haemoglobin.
Phosphorus(III) oxide, P[SUB]4[/SUB]O[SUB]6[/SUB] (also called tetraphosphorus hexoxide) is the anhydride of P(OH)[SUB]3[/SUB], the minor tautomer of phosphorous acid. The structure of P[SUB]4[/SUB]O[SUB]6[/SUB] is like that of P[SUB]4[/SUB]O[SUB]10[/SUB] less the terminal oxide groups.
Mixed oxyhalides and oxyhydrides of phosphorus(III) are almost unknown.
*Organophosphorus compounds*

Main article: organophosphorus compounds
Compounds with P-C and P-O-C bonds are often classified as organophosphorus compounds. They are widely used commercially. The PCl[SUB]3[/SUB] serves as a source of P[SUP]3+[/SUP] in routes to organophosphorus(III) compounds. For example it is the precursor to triphenylphosphine:
PCl[SUB]3[/SUB] + 6 Na + 3 C[SUB]6[/SUB]H[SUB]5[/SUB]Cl &#8594; P(C[SUB]6[/SUB]H[SUB]5[/SUB])[SUB]3[/SUB] + 6 NaCl Treatment of phosphorus trihalides with alcohols and phenols gives phosphites, e.g. triphenylphosphite:
PCl[SUB]3[/SUB] + 3 C[SUB]6[/SUB]H[SUB]5[/SUB]OH &#8594; P(OC[SUB]6[/SUB]H[SUB]5[/SUB])[SUB]3[/SUB] + 3 HCl Similar reactions occur for phosphorus oxychloride, affording triphenylphosphate:
OPCl[SUB]3[/SUB] + 3 C[SUB]6[/SUB]H[SUB]5[/SUB]OH &#8594; OP(OC[SUB]6[/SUB]H[SUB]5[/SUB])[SUB]3[/SUB] + 3 HCl"





*You see** what you don't seem to understand is how proteins work. Protein molecular structures that potentially require several precursors to form inside a cell. When you take just any P, you then need to perform several steps to convert it to a molecule that is usable to form plants structures. You end up using more sugar ATP/Ect to do the same task as if it was organic P, which can be hydrolyzed to make P acid to form several compounds of the plant. Organic will leave less bi products as key steps and processes in metabolism is Already DONE!



*


Harrekin said:


> You're way oversimplifying what I said there man. I said reduce ferts at the end because the plant uses less ferts at the end than it does at peak flower.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Flushing is a means of improving taste of air cured bud. and I whole heartily believe in at-least reduced 10-25% ferts at the end.


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## KushDog (Dec 15, 2011)

I have tasted unflushed bud, Nasty

I know people that grow and there shit is full of ferts. 

I guess i have super powers to be able to tell the difernts.

why does the guy that runs the compasion club want everyone to flush there grow? i complaned about the un flushed bud, and he agreed and gave me my money back and started not buying unflushed bud.... I guess he has no idea what he is talking about... LOL yaeh right. lol 

I can tell when i get black ash and it pops and burns my thort 

I know for a fact that if you keep feeding full streath till the end, it will leave black ash, pop, and hurt your thort, or maybe i am the only one that it bothers


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## KUShSOurSMOKEr (Dec 15, 2011)

For sure kush ..

So how exactly do u flush in what is the best way to have ur ash white n super smooth smoke?

Sour


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## laserbrn (Dec 15, 2011)

There is a potential taste difference that I have noticed between flushed and unflushed buds. The unflushed buds have more clorophyl as the plant has not started feeding off itself or isn't doing so as heavily and photosynthesis has not slowed down. When you flush, you deprive the plant of the nutrients that it needs to continue healthy growth. Because the plant has begun it's senesence (as annuals do) it feeds off of the stores "leaves" to get the nutrients that it needs. As part of this process photosynthesis is slowed. The plant won't grow as vigourously and chlorphyl production is greatly reduced.

I have found that very green buds from plants that were very green (not flushed) need to be cured very slowly and carefully to remove all of the chlorophyl while plants that I have harvested that have been flushed and therefore aren't as green and don't have as much chlorophyl production are a bit smoother with a faster cure.


After a proper month of curing, I can't tell the difference anymore, so I stopped flushing and now just cure longer. The greener, healthier plants in the end produced bigger, stronger buds. Curing or Flushing...Curing. Flushing is for toilets.


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## lordjin (Dec 15, 2011)

laserbrn said:


> There is a potential taste difference that I have noticed between flushed and unflushed buds. The unflushed buds have more clorophyl as the plant has not started feeding off itself or isn't doing so as heavily and photosynthesis has not slowed down. When you flush, you deprive the plant of the nutrients that it needs to continue healthy growth. Because the plant has begun it's senesence (as annuals do) it feeds off of the stores "leaves" to get the nutrients that it needs. As part of this process photosynthesis is slowed. The plant won't grow as vigourously and chlorphyl production is greatly reduced.
> 
> I have found that very green buds from plants that were very green (not flushed) need to be cured very slowly and carefully to remove all of the chlorophyl while plants that I have harvested that have been flushed and therefore aren't as green and don't have as much chlorophyl production are a bit smoother with a faster cure.
> 
> ...


You're talking about translocation when you talk about that leaf yellowing that results in less grassiness. I don't think it's altogether accurate to credit translocation to plant starvation. I'm using AN Sensi (supposedly mixed and balanced specifically for cannabis growth patterns and needs). Instead of a sudden plain water flush, I'm letting them feed on the AN Sensi bloom base at lower than peak flower ppm for the final stage. I'm not replenishing as my external auto top diltues. The PPM is decreasing steadily and translocation (yellowing of leaves) is occuring nicely but not too rapidly to cause leaves to drop dead overnight. This is the proper balance imo. Translocation to the point of leaves dropping like flies is too extreme and will likely impact final potency. I clipped a lower nug last night to examine, and not a hint of grassiness. The rest of the plant is still feeding and growing ever so slightly.

I think it's the correct balance of NPK that promotes the plant to translocate properly at the proper stage. Not deprivation. We're so worried about deficiency all through the growth cycle, it doesn't make sense to me to force it at the end. And too much chlorophyll causing grassiness is more a result of too much N in the mix rather than no starvation. 

You said it yourself perfectly:
"When you flush, you deprive the plant of the nutrients that it needs to continue healthy growth."

The plant is programmed to live a certain length and do things at a certain time. We all know it's not just gonna keep growing to infinity if we keep feeding them. You're not really telling the plant what to do at a certain time by starving it. If you feed it properly, it knows exactly what to do and when.


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## SirLancelot (Dec 15, 2011)

KushDog said:


> I can tell when i get black ash and it pops and burns my thort
> 
> I know for a fact that if you keep feeding full streath till the end, it will leave black ash, pop, and hurt your thort, or maybe i am the only one that it bothers


Yea I had this happen when I improperly cured once. 
Just curious how come when I don't flush I don't get black ash and it doesn't burn my throat yet is smooth and clean as fuck? Im just curious what this means? Unless I just keep getting lucky...


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## Sunbiz1 (Dec 15, 2011)

SirLancelot said:


> It's kind of rediculous to argue flushing increases or decreases anything because whenver side by side no one can tell. I thought the argument was on taste? Which is also rediculous to argue if flushing improves taste or not. because NO ONE! can tell a blind taste test difference. and when you truly do one not just say you do then you will understand. I bought into flushing because "thats what all the cool kids did" untill I started taking matters into my own hands. After 3 seperate tests with almost the exact same variables for every plant (or atleast everything I could control) Everytime someone does a blind tasting you know what i get.... "Uuhhhh man idk there all good" I get people guessing the bud that isn't flushed is and the one that is isn't. It's a fucking plant, like every other living fucking plant. nothing new or special about it


So we're not growing Orchids nor African Violets?...lol...by the way some baby a weed(and one used for crop control at that)you would think so.


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## k0ijn (Dec 15, 2011)

wbd said:


> Huh?
> 
> I used to flush for harvest, but eventually tried without and like k0ijn didn't notice a difference... so I stopped. All things being equal, simpler is better -- especially in growing.
> 
> But I never fucked up anything from flushing, what do you mean by that? Just not happy with the final product?



Since minerals are being removed from the reservoir and thus plants are put on a forced hypotonic osmosis, which is only detrimental , you could end up with the plants being worse after a flush.
Since you are basically starving them, forcing them to consumes themselves (especially sugar leaves) and thus reducing potential productivity.

With osmosis there are three possible reactions:

*

If the medium is hypotonic &#8212; a dilute solution, with a higher water concentration than the cell &#8212; the cell will gain water through osmosis.
If the medium is isotonic &#8212; a solution with exactly the same water concentration as the cell &#8212; there will be no net movement of water across the cell membrane.
If the medium is hypertonic &#8212; a concentrated solution, with a lower water concentration than the cell &#8212; the cell will lose water by osmosis.
​​
*The isotonic stage is the only (and therefore optimum) desirable solute ratio.


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## midijunkie (Dec 15, 2011)

plants can have a salt buildup in nature of course they can. youve never seen plants that are over fertilized outside? poor drainage would cause this.


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## midijunkie (Dec 15, 2011)

the idea of flushing two weeks prior to harvest is to force the plant to use up all available nutes within the plant itself so no, flushing and then adding MORE nutes would be counterproductive. nutes in the bud = bud that tastes like metal, doesnt stay lit, doesnt burn cleanly, doesnt burn to a grey ash, etc... 



potpimp said:


> In nature, plants do not get salt buildup. After reading the last few posts I may have come up with something good. I know LordJin does true aero and is a master at it (if you're not you just have dead plants). I love growing in hydro for many reasons, control being #1. I can see there being a buildup on salts in soil, but not hydro. What if someone growing in containers flushed two weeks before the chop, getting rid of all the buildup, then went right back to giving nutes. Would that be beneficial? Would it not solve both problems of flushing _and_ giving the plants their nutes to the end? It's just an idea that I would like to see discussed.


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## SirLancelot (Dec 15, 2011)

midijunkie said:


> the idea of flushing two weeks prior to harvest is to force the plant to use up all available nutes within the plant itself so no, flushing and then adding MORE nutes would be counterproductive. nutes in the bud = bud that tastes like metal, doesnt stay lit, doesnt burn cleanly, doesnt burn to a grey ash, etc...


how exactly does the nutrients get into the bud?
and your starving the plant forcing it to eat itself away. You wouldn't starve a cow before you slaughtered it would you?


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## k0ijn (Dec 15, 2011)

midijunkie said:


> the idea of flushing two weeks prior to harvest is to force the plant to use up all available nutes within the plant itself so no, flushing and then adding MORE nutes would be counterproductive. nutes in the bud = bud that tastes like metal, doesnt stay lit, doesnt burn cleanly, doesnt burn to a grey ash, etc...



Again a new grower fails to grasp the facts of the Cannabis plant.

Nutrients are _not_ stored in the buds.
Nutrients are stored in the leaves.

And flushing doesn't force the plant to "use up all available nutes", it just forces a hypotonic osmosis, which is detrimental to not only bud production but the entire plant and it's well being.


If you get bad tasting bud = failed at curing.
If it doesn't stay lit = failed at drying.
Doesn't burn cleanly (I suppose you mean evenly) = failed at drying.

I could go on but I think the point has been made.


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## KushDog (Dec 15, 2011)

my flushed buds burn fine any way i dry it, and i dont cure it, no need if you flush, just tose it on a heater and dry it out roll it up and enjoy your home grown goodness, I guess you dont have to flush if your are going to cure your meds for a long time, but i like to smoke it rite off the plant. But I guess i take more pride in my cannabis than some of you.


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## SirLancelot (Dec 15, 2011)

KushDog said:


> my flushed buds burn fine any way i dry it, and i dont cure it, no need if you flush, just tose it on a heater and dry it out roll it up and enjoy your home grown goodness, I guess you dont have to flush if your are going to cure your meds for a long time, but i like to smoke it rite off the plant. But I guess i take more pride in my cannabis than some of you.


WHA?? your going to argue about the difference in taste and you don't even cure? lol if your buds burn fine from tossin it on a heater and rollin it up you truely will be SHOCKED in the difference of smoke if you cure it properly. Then you will see flushing doesn't matter Im just curious where you got this info?


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## k0ijn (Dec 15, 2011)

KushDog said:


> my flushed buds burn fine any way i dry it, and i dont cure it, no need if you flush, just tose it on a heater and dry it out roll it up and enjoy your home grown goodness, I guess you dont have to flush if your are going to cure your meds for a long time, but i like to smoke it rite off the plant. But I guess i take more pride in my cannabis than some of you.


First of all, pride? Are you kidding me?

You dry your weed on a heater and smoke it 'rite' off the plant?

If you had any respect for your Cannabis you would know to dry it right and cure it right, not smoke it straight off the plant after a quick dry on a heater.


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## KushDog (Dec 15, 2011)

Why does my weed not pop, and leave black ash like unflushed weed??? LOL I didn't flush soon enough once and it poped and burned my nose and throat intill it was cured.


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## laserbrn (Dec 15, 2011)

Why are you guys still arguing with this guy about this? He dries his bud on a heater, he "flushes" his buds and he looks down on those that grow their plants to full maturity, properly cure and dry their cannabis and smoke it. He's a joker. An all too typical these days, joker.


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## midijunkie (Dec 15, 2011)

ha new grower. i like that. are you smoking pure flower seed capsules when you smoke bud? im thinking youre probably smoking some small leaves in there. which are close to the actual seed pods which were not pollinated. and flushing the plant moves all nutrient salts (which are nutes) out of the growing medium which means they are not brought up to the leaves. i dont see one point you made other than repeating what others have already said holmes. so please... "go on". 



k0ijn said:


> Again a new grower fails to grasp the facts of the Cannabis plant.
> 
> Nutrients are _not_ stored in the buds.
> Nutrients are stored in the leaves.
> ...


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## midijunkie (Dec 15, 2011)

the plant uses nutes at its disposal in an aeroponic grow right? does it do the same when you put it in soil? if you put too much into a plant in any of its processes seedling veg or flower.. what does it do with them? nothing. they sit in the soil. flushing removes salts that would otherwise be detrimental to your buds in numerous ways one including in my opinion.. the overall quality of the dope after harvest. good pot does not come from harvesting at the correct time.. drying... curing methods. i believe most of it is in the growers hands while it is still alive and even more so.. the last few weeks of growth.


SirLancelot said:


> how exactly does the nutrients get into the bud?
> and your starving the plant forcing it to eat itself away. You wouldn't starve a cow before you slaughtered it would you?


 you know.. its better to get a clean shot on a deer and drop it right where it stands so it doesnt run and taint the meat with adrenaline and nastiness..


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## k0ijn (Dec 15, 2011)

laserbrn said:


> Why are you guys still arguing with this guy about this? He dries his bud on a heater, he "flushes" his buds and he looks down on those that grow their plants to full maturity, properly cure and dry their cannabis and smoke it. He's a joker. An all too typical these days, joker.



I'm not sure really, sometimes I forget to feed the trolls.
I shouldn't have bought the big bag of troll food.


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## k0ijn (Dec 15, 2011)

midijunkie said:


> ha new grower. i like that. are you smoking pure flower seed capsules when you smoke bud? im thinking youre probably smoking some small leaves in there. which are close to the actual seed pods which were not pollinated. and flushing the plant moves all nutrient salts (which are nutes) out of the growing medium which means they are not brought up to the leaves. i dont see one point you made other than repeating what others have already said holmes. so please... "go on".



Since I smoke female plants I usually smoke calyxes. I leave few sugar leaves on my buds but nothing compared to the amount of calyx structures.
I don't know why you are smoking seed capsules primarily, perhaps you should harvest females instead of males 



> ...which are close to the actual seed pods which were not pollinated.


Again, I don't pollinate my crop, I'm not a seed producer.



> flushing the plant moves all nutrient salts (which are nutes) out of the growing medium which means they are not brought up to the leaves.


And?
That's my point (and many other experienced growers point), removing the minerals effectively starves the plant(s) at the most critical phase in flowering.
Thus reducing the potential of the plants and lowering production of everything from new growth to calyx formation.


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 16, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> How exactly do organic and chemical nutrients differ once absorbed by the roots? Is organic Nitrogen not Nitrogen or something? Is organic phosphorous not phosphorous?
> 
> Organic is great if youre "into" that sort of thing, but it's way overhyped. I find it an inexact, slow delivery system for nutes, some people like it more, but the plant ultimately uptakes and utilises the same elements in the same way regardless of whether it came from shit or from a rock.


I doubt there is a single grower on this forum that actually is growing 'organic'. Who knows what those cows where fed that the blood meal comes from. What sort of ferts where used on the alfalfa field. Many of you may be trying to grow in a more 'natural' way. But true organic, not unless you produce every single thing you use on your plants yourself......

Plants eat what plants eat. Coming from a chemical bottle or 'organic' bag, same-same. Some foods and certain sources are just more readily available than others........


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## midijunkie (Dec 16, 2011)

is that your grow? on your sig? just curious. do you veg under 24 hours of light?



k0ijn said:


> And? That's my point (and many other experienced growers point), removing the minerals effectively starves the plant(s) at the most critical phase in flowering.
> Thus reducing the potential of the plants and lowering production of everything from new growth to calyx formation.


i do what works for me. imo.. flushing my plants about a week before i harvest gives me and has always given me better results overall especially with taste. i dont want my herb to have a "green" taste or smell after harvest. i find that flushing really takes that away.


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## Harrekin (Dec 16, 2011)

midijunkie said:


> is that your grow? on your sig? just curious. do you veg under 24 hours of light?
> 
> 
> i do what works for me. imo.. flushing my plants about a week before i harvest gives me and has always given me better results overall especially with taste. i dont want my herb to have a "green" taste or smell after harvest. i find that flushing really takes that away.


That's called starving your plant so it can't produce chlorophyll...the stuff it uses to produce energy? Genius man,pure genius.


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## anotherdaymusic (Dec 16, 2011)

it just starts killing your plant, the only benefit of it is a quicker dry time. the plant smell goes away with dry and cure... lmao


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## Harrekin (Dec 16, 2011)

The plant doesn't change in the amount of water it has/uses, so how does starving it speed up drying time?


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## anotherdaymusic (Dec 16, 2011)

umm. because the plant is drying and dying naturally? is that hard to believe?


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## anotherdaymusic (Dec 16, 2011)

and plants use the nutes as energy, the nutes don go into the bud. do some research on botany... gigantic tomato farmers dont "flush" their crops do they? no they dont.


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## KushDog (Dec 16, 2011)

I never tryed Smoking tomatos before! whats the best way to smoke a tomato? should i remove the seeds?


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## anotherdaymusic (Dec 16, 2011)

KushDog said:


> I never tryed Smoking tomatos before! whats the best way to smoke a tomato? should i remove the seeds?


stick it up your ass, best way hands down


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## laserbrn (Dec 16, 2011)

KushDog said:


> I never tryed Smoking tomatos before! whats the best way to smoke a tomato? should i remove the seeds?


Tobacco growers don't flush their plants either.


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## KushDog (Dec 16, 2011)

anotherdaymusic said:


> stick it up your ass, best way hands down


I didn't ask what you do with them.


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## KushDog (Dec 16, 2011)

laserbrn said:


> Tobacco growers don't flush their plants either.



why would they, they are just going to add hundeds of chemicals to it anyway... LOL


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## laserbrn (Dec 16, 2011)

Obviously I didn't reserach how Phillip Morris does it you. I'm talking about the tobacco equivalent of pot farmers. Nobody talks about flushing anything else that I've been able to find. Tobacco is also cured for 1-2 years (for good shit, ~3 months for making your own cigarettes). As long as your bud has had an opportunity to fully cure, flushing is unnecessary. If you want to turn your bud over quick and have it less harsh, yes, starving it will also slows chlorophyl production and in the absence of a good cure you will be able to see a noticeable difference.

Anybody who cares about the quality of their product above anything else though will properly dry and cure to achive the best final product. THAT is true about both marijuana and tobacco. And as with tobacco (since it's done for the same reason), the longer the cure, the smoother the smoke and the better the product.


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## midijunkie (Dec 16, 2011)

starving my plant would entail removing it from the medium completely and leeching every mineral and nutrient out of everything including stem leaves everything. moving it from the medium to the sewer forces it to use what its got stored. but thanks for trying and thanks for the tact! real classy guy you and k0ijn.. heh



Harrekin said:


> That's called starving your plant so it can't produce chlorophyll...the stuff it uses to produce energy? Genius man,pure genius.


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## midijunkie (Dec 16, 2011)

just out of curiousity.. im wondering why arjan.. cervantes.... hans.... many others recommend flushing your plants? im gonna take their word for it and my own experience. these guys have grown more dope than i can shake a stick at. like i said.. do it your own way. this forum isnt for bashing people and calling them "new growers" and "pure genius".. its for helping people and supporting fellow growers. i know everyone has to grow up sometime and realize thats not the way that real people do it.. you know being sarcastic and having no tact whilst criticizing others. do it the way that works for you and do it good. whats the reason to come on a forum thats designed to talk, share ideas, and help others and one.. name call.. two... tell others theyre completely wrong based upon opinions that have no solid ground? come on people.. if youre going to use the net to do that.. i think yahoo chat is for you. if youre gonna say what you want to say.. be cool about it.


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## midijunkie (Dec 16, 2011)

i also flush one time during veg which after.. the plants look healthier than they ever did before it and actually get a little growth spurt. roots love o2. bog them down with salts and just sitting there and my theory is they have to fight to get to it. flushing works mate. you should try it!




Harrekin said:


> That's called starving your plant so it can't produce chlorophyll...the stuff it uses to produce energy? Genius man,pure genius.


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## k0ijn (Dec 16, 2011)

midijunkie said:


> just out of curiousity.. im wondering why arjan.. cervantes.... hans.... many others recommend flushing your plants? im gonna take their word for it and my own experience. these guys have grown more dope than i can shake a stick at. like i said.. do it your own way. this forum isnt for bashing people and calling them "new growers" and "pure genius".. its for helping people and supporting fellow growers. i know everyone has to grow up sometime and realize thats not the way that real people do it.. you know being sarcastic and having no tact whilst criticizing others. do it the way that works for you and do it good. whats the reason to come on a forum thats designed to talk, share ideas, and help others and one.. name call.. two... tell others theyre completely wrong based upon opinions that have no solid ground? come on people.. if youre going to use the net to do that.. i think yahoo chat is for you. if youre gonna say what you want to say.. be cool about it.



"New grower" is not offensive or in any way negative, it's explanatory and descriptive.

If you find those two words criticizing, well then that purely reflects on you.


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## IntrepidTraveler420 (Dec 16, 2011)

^ agree 

and as quoted from DJ Shorts Cultivating Exceptional Cannabis

&#8220;I end all nitrogen supplementation four to five weeks prior to harvest,and end all additives two to three weeks prior to harvest. I supply B-vitamin hormone such as "Super Thrive&#8221; up to the last week. I highly recommend a pure water flush for at least the last two watering times.&#8221; 

I&#8217;m going with the last two as mentioned above, but think that I will definantly be conducting a flush experiment in a couple grows. I got some Chernobyl all lined up


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## SirLancelot (Dec 16, 2011)

midijunkie said:


> starving my plant would entail removing it from the medium completely and leeching every mineral and nutrient out of everything including stem leaves everything. moving it from the medium to the sewer forces it to use what its got stored. but thanks for trying and thanks for the tact! real classy guy you and k0ijn.. heh


WHen anything "starves" it begins to eat away at itself. If you don't eat for a couple days your body will begin to eat off of itself. That's not healthy.


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## SimonD (Dec 16, 2011)

midijunkie said:


> just out of curiousity.. im wondering why arjan.. cervantes.... hans.... many others recommend flushing your plants? im gonna take their word for it and my own experience. these guys have grown more dope than i can shake a stick at.


This is how Jorge's book was written: he hung out on Overgrow for ~18 months and asked us a lot of questions. This isn't meant to take anything away from Cervantes. He's a reporter.

Your posts piqued my curiosity, so I took a look at your other comments. You're new to this, have virtually zero experience, from what I can tell have never harvested a thing. Having looked at the posts by several other individuals in this thread, they, too, have never harvested a thing. Really, I'm baffled by this. How in the world can you argue so adamantly and so aggressively, when you have no actual experience with this topic? Many folks come to this forum for information. What value can this so-called information have, when it's being asserted by folks who simply parrot a bunch of hearsay? Tell me this is a joke. Please. 

Simon


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## rocknratm (Dec 16, 2011)

SimonD said:


> This is how Jorge's book was written: he hung out on Overgrow for ~18 months and asked us a lot of questions. This isn't meant to take anything away from Cervantes. He's a reporter.
> 
> Your posts piqued my curiosity, so I took a look at your other comments. You're new to this, have virtually zero experience, from what I can tell have never harvested a thing. Having looked at the posts by several other individuals in this thread, they, too, have never harvested a thing. Really, I'm baffled by this. How in the world can you argue so adamantly and so aggressively, when you have no actual experience with this topic? Many folks come to this forum for information. What value can this so-called information have, when it's being asserted by folks who simply parrot a bunch of hearsay? Tell me this is a joke. Please.
> 
> Simon


to simply call Cervantes a reporter is underestimating his stature. I stand by what I said- in some cases flush is necessary, ie heavy synthetic nutes (humbolt count was found to have a carcinogen in one of their nutes) or heavy nutes in general. If there is an imbalance causing poor ph, flushing with just water the lat couple weeks would even it out to allow the plants to better absorb nutes (Im sure plenty of growers including me have used too much nutes w out adjusting and checking ph).

There are uses. If your organic, have ur ph right on, ect, maybe its not so needed. But to each his own. I use fox farm trio and cal mag, somemolassis, and havent noticed much different between flushing and not. But Im more on the natural, organic side than alot of nute brands imo. 

that said, there are situations where just water the last week or two will help. It is not always needed. Compromise?


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## midijunkie (Dec 16, 2011)

so what made you think i was a new grower? does creating an account on rollitup mean someone just started growing to you? that post said a lot mate. calling me a new grower is offensive.. yes. i asked you earlier on if thats YOUR grow in your sig? i was just wondering.



k0ijn said:


> "New grower" is not offensive or in any way negative, it's explanatory and descriptive.
> 
> If you find those two words criticizing, well then that purely reflects on you.


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## midijunkie (Dec 16, 2011)

a dying plant is healthy? this is purely removing what we as humans dosed it with. its going to die anyways. of course a human not eating is unhealthy. i dont see one thats planning on suicide not eating as unhealthy though.



SirLancelot said:


> WHen anything "starves" it begins to eat away at itself. If you don't eat for a couple days your body will begin to eat off of itself. That's not healthy.


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## midijunkie (Dec 16, 2011)

alright big guy. youre right. ive never harvested a thing. i just read tons of books and grow begonias. hahaha.. dude how could you gather that from the 20 something posts ive made? thats quite ignorant in my opinion. i think youre like a lot of these other kids. just want to be heard and if it takes arguing with the new guy.. then thats it. im sorry you were ignored as a child, which was obviously not long ago.. simon, who are you? you just bust into a thread and by seeing my other posts gathered that ive not harvested a thing? man.. its all good. youre obviously a highly intelligent member of the community whom is a master grower. your comments baffle me bro. really.. an honest question. how many harvests have you had? were they large (if youve had any).. howd they taste? you obviously dont flush. tell me more about your last two weeks of growth. what do YOU do my friend? are your harvests superior to everyones in town? you should write a book with your astuteness.. 

also, have you ever seen a video made by cervantes? read a book by him? what are you basing your opinions of this man off of? 



SimonD said:


> This is how Jorge's book was written: he hung out on Overgrow for ~18 months and asked us a lot of questions. This isn't meant to take anything away from Cervantes. He's a reporter.
> 
> Your posts piqued my curiosity, so I took a look at your other comments. You're new to this, have virtually zero experience, from what I can tell have never harvested a thing. Having looked at the posts by several other individuals in this thread, they, too, have never harvested a thing. Really, I'm baffled by this. How in the world can you argue so adamantly and so aggressively, when you have no actual experience with this topic? Many folks come to this forum for information. What value can this so-called information have, when it's being asserted by folks who simply parrot a bunch of hearsay? Tell me this is a joke. Please.
> 
> Simon


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## SimonD (Dec 16, 2011)

midijunkie said:


> alright big guy. youre right. ive never harvested a thing. i just read tons of books and grow begonias. hahaha.. *dude how could you gather that from the 20 something posts ive made?*


On 11/5 you started a thread asking about the basics of setting up a veg room

On 11/18 you stated a thread asking about a basic setup for the fan/filter you just bought, hoping to have it running for flowering

Today is 12/16

Clearly, you're brutally dishonest, which brings us back to your claims. At this point there's no reason to believe a word you say.



> simon, who are you?


This is who I am:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=156237

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=187887

Feel free to look through my gallery.

Simon


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## midijunkie (Dec 16, 2011)

the basics? are you serious? i asked what the best option would be to set up a t5 and a 400w. i just moved into a new house. i built a box and went to a bigger fan. wow.. i mustve not harvested a thing considering i asked a few questions from experienced growers. i bow to you man.. you copied and pasted some info on curing.. which ive read actually.. and youre basing this on another thread ive also read. youre saying this was all from your mouth? i dont feel like i have to copy and paste info and create a thread on curing based on what ive read .. calling it your own is false man. i can go ahead and find that other thread with the rh notes that you "wrote". 
brutally dishonest. go ahead and tell me what gives you this opinion. go ahead and copy and paste some more. id love to know what youve based this off of.
"this is who i am" you obviously dont like to be threatened. you da man! dont worry bud! youre the coolest here!!
the cervantes ? have you read, viewed anything by him? seems to me.. youre just a common folk.. repeating what youve heard. basing opinions off of what YOU think is right. let me guess.. youre always right. cervantes is a "reporter" na man.. hes a big dawg. bigger than you guy. bet that.

etuff.


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## midijunkie (Dec 16, 2011)

that last link you left there etuff.. with the 6 tops.. not impressed. ill show you something impressive in about 2 weeks. itll give you something to look forward to. ;D


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## SimonD (Dec 16, 2011)

midijunkie said:


> the basics? are you serious? i asked what the best option would be to set up a t5 and a 400w. i just moved into a new house. i built a box and went to a bigger fan. wow.. i mustve not harvested a thing considering i asked a few questions from experienced growers.


Dates don't lie, but you do.



> . you copied and pasted some info on curing.. which ive read actually.. and youre basing this on another thread ive also read. youre saying this was all from your mouth? i dont feel like i have to copy and paste info and create a thread on curing based on what ive read .. calling it your own is false man.


I wish you could see my face right now.



midijunkie said:


> that last link you left there etuff.. with the 6 tops.. not impressed.


It's a pruning tutorial that shows how to pull 2-3oz/ft2 (dry/cured) with no popcorn. You didn't even have the brains to look through all the pics. Par for the course.



> ill show you something impressive in about 2 weeks. itll give you something to look forward to. ;D


And here we go! Of course you'll show something in a matter of time, because you've never harvested anything before. We've come full circle. Liar is as liar does.

Simon


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## midijunkie (Dec 16, 2011)

you didnt answer one of my questions. dont feel threatened. dude.. like i said.. who are you? what gives you the impression that im a liar? go ahead and give me some factual evidence. back up your big claims. ill find the other thread from another site that you copied and pasted.
"i wish you could see my face right now.. im so tuff" haha. little boys are cute. i wish you could see MY face right now. big smiles. dont get mad man.. i want some factual evidence. dont just call someone a liar and have nothing to back it up with. ive got an answer for everything just like you . like i said.. 6 tops from lst and a prune is kinda small time... stay tuned for some real shit grown in soil. organically. thats been FLUSHED. 



SimonD said:


> Dates don't lie, but you do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## dannyboy602 (Dec 16, 2011)

CheapJoe said:


> How many here have actually read a biology book; otherwise opinions are like assholes, and there is a lot of ass on this thread.


I still have mine from school. I like to read it when I'm high. It's more interesting now than when I had to read it then.


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## midijunkie (Dec 16, 2011)

http://www.cannabisgrowguide.net/2010/10/harvesting-curing-harvest-cure.html

http://www.growmedical420.com/452/a-simple-process-for-curing-medical-marijuana/

let me guess.. these guys copied and pasted this info from your thread? dont call me a liar dude.


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## SimonD (Dec 16, 2011)

midijunkie said:


> http://www.cannabisgrowguide.net/2010/10/harvesting-curing-harvest-cure.html
> 
> http://www.growmedical420.com/452/a-simple-process-for-curing-medical-marijuana/
> 
> let me guess.. *these guys copied and pasted this info from your thread*?


Yes. You wanted to know who I am. Well, that's your answer.

Simon


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## midijunkie (Dec 16, 2011)

i believe you man. youve given me no reason to think youre a liar.


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## midijunkie (Dec 16, 2011)

yea man.. ill take that. its my first grow. they look this good. on my first grow. yay me! im on my way to stardom just like you dude! pot superstar like simon! w00t! i honestly think you like to argue man.. dont you have a wife or girlfriend you can argue with? its amazing youd rather sit on a forum and call someone a liar that youve never met. wow man. another amazing moment by you mr. simon. youre the coolest man! everybody likes you!! ha. heh.



SimonD said:


> Dates don't lie, but you do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## midijunkie (Dec 16, 2011)

thats quite an amazing claim to fame mate. you should love more than hate simon. youll get a lot more out of your life. give respect where respect is due. dont jump on bandwagons.. its bad news. and lastly.. if youre going to call someone a liar.. at least have some evidence why you think that. other than that.. man.. youre awesome dude. youre a grower. you grow indo. thats cool in its own man. running around a forum calling people liars and jumping on bandwagons.. whats the score mate? not too cool bro. not too cool at all. 



SimonD said:


> Yes. You wanted to know who I am. Well, that's your answer.
> 
> Simon


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## SimonD (Dec 16, 2011)

<grin> I gave you a Like for the entertainment value. Had I known, I would have posted to you sooner.

Simon


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## WhiteWidowsBf (Dec 17, 2011)

well, i don't comment much but this is widespread :S only reason to flush if using nutrients like flora grow series, etc. 2 weeks before harvest to flush all chemicals that remain in soil out. you should flush 2 times your pot size if i had 5 gallon pot flush with 10 gallon water do it right in bathtub. and than give it 2 weeks of just proper phed water and it will taste better more natural. besides that does nothing else to the plant. 

I Lie And those are based on educational guesses. yep


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## watchhowIdoit (Dec 17, 2011)

midijunkie said:


> you didnt answer one of my questions. dont feel threatened. dude.. like i said.. who are you? what gives you the impression that im a liar? go ahead and give me some factual evidence. back up your big claims. ill find the other thread from another site that you copied and pasted.
> "i wish you could see my face right now.. im so tuff" haha. little boys are cute. i wish you could see MY face right now. big smiles. dont get mad man.. i want some factual evidence. dont just call someone a liar and have nothing to back it up with. ive got an answer for everything just like you . like i said.. 6 tops from lst and a prune is kinda small time... stay tuned for some real shit grown in soil. organically. thats been FLUSHED.



I would have to say you less than truthful at the least. To both yourself and the forum......


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## SimonD (Dec 17, 2011)

WhiteWidowsBf said:


> I Lie And those are based on educational guesses. yep


Are you trying to troll me?

Here is the other guy lying through his teeth:



midijunkie said:


> hey if you dont like to flush then dont flush. just seems like another reason to argue here. *my buds are flushed. they taste look and smell better than ones that ive not*. same strain.. same mama... same growing environment. i feed the hell out of my plants.. if i didnt flush... wow.





midijunkie said:


> yea man.. ill take that. *its my first grow. they look this good. on my first grow.* yay me! im on my way to stardom just like you dude! pot superstar like simon! w00t! i honestly think you like to argue man.. dont you have a wife or girlfriend you can argue with? its amazing youd rather sit on a forum and call someone a liar that youve never met. wow man. another amazing moment by you mr. simon. youre the coolest man! everybody likes you!! ha. heh.


It's his first grow, he hasn't harvested yet, but he claims his "buds taste look and smell better than ones that ive not [flushed]." That's called lying. This all started with a denial of it being his first grow, which of course it is. That's called lying, too.



WhiteWidowsBf said:


> well, i don't comment much but this is widespread :S only reason to flush if using nutrients like flora grow series, etc. 2 weeks before harvest to flush all chemicals that remain in soil out. you should flush 2 times your pot size if i had 5 gallon pot flush with 10 gallon water do it right in bathtub. and than give it 2 weeks of just proper phed water and it will taste better more natural. besides that does nothing else to the plant.


As for you, you started your first grow over the summer with 4 CFLs. Can you post a pic of what you grew?

Just so you understand, I really don't care whether you flush or not. Since you decided to troll me by asserting a degree of competence, I'd like to see what you can do as a grower. Please post some pics of your work. Those CFLs must do wonders.

Simon


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## aftershock (Dec 17, 2011)

I just started growing recently, but I have harvested a couple plants so far. I don't flush. I was worried about chemical taste in my weed so I use water with no nutes for the last week. No chemical taste so far


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## Harrekin (Dec 17, 2011)

WhiteWidowsBf said:


> well, i don't comment much but this is widespread :S only reason to flush if using nutrients like flora grow series, etc. 2 weeks before harvest to flush all chemicals that remain in soil out. you should flush 2 times your pot size if i had 5 gallon pot flush with 10 gallon water do it right in bathtub. and than give it 2 weeks of just proper phed water and it will taste better more natural. besides that does nothing else to the plant.
> 
> I Lie And those are based on educational guesses. yep


Youre another example of a person who does stuff without actually understanding why they do it. 

So you try stop the plant uptaking nutrients from the soil by using pH adjusted water...why exactly do you pH your water? Do you understand that the reason we pH our water is to allow for nutrient uptake?

Why is it "flushers" have no clue as to how plants work?


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## SirLancelot (Dec 17, 2011)

WhiteWidowsBf said:


> well, i don't comment much but this is widespread :S only reason to flush if using nutrients like flora grow series, etc. 2 weeks before harvest to flush all chemicals that remain in soil out. you should flush 2 times your pot size if i had 5 gallon pot flush with 10 gallon water do it right in bathtub. and than give it 2 weeks of just proper phed water and it will taste better more natural. besides that does nothing else to the plant.
> 
> I Lie And those are based on educational guesses. yep


Im assuming this is what you heard. You shouldn't give such sound advice on such little knowledge


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## KushDog (Dec 17, 2011)

aftershock said:


> I just started growing recently, but I have harvested a couple plants so far. I don't flush. I was worried about chemical taste in my weed so I use water with no nutes for the last week. No chemical taste so far


you should feed all the way to harvest. dont use straight water, you need to feed till the end. you are compermising your yeild, dont ever use just water you need to keep feeding till the end..... BAHAHA I feel like a Pot star now... lol


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## wbd (Dec 17, 2011)

KushDog said:


> you should feed all the way to harvest. dont use straight water, you need to feed till the end. you are compermising your yeild, dont ever use just water you need to keep feeding till the end..... BAHAHA I feel like a Pot star now... lol


I've never heard of a study or experiment that found conclusively that yield or quality is in any way affected by flushing. Have you? If so, please share.

I realize the theory behind "starving" a plant before harvest suggests that yield and quality would be affected, but from what I can gather for myself it seems most people who experiment conclude that there is "no difference" between flushed and unflushed bud. Myself included.

And to be honest, because of how much variance there is in nature, if someone here did claim to notice a difference in yield between flushed and unflushed, I would disregard as bullshit anyhow. You'd need a LOT of plants in such a study to reach any sort of acceptable statistical group.


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## SirLancelot (Dec 17, 2011)

wbd said:


> I've never heard of a study or experiment that found conclusively that yield or quality is in any way affected by flushing. Have you? If so, please share.
> 
> I realize the theory behind "starving" a plant before harvest suggests that yield and quality would be affected, but from what I can gather for myself it seems most people who experiment conclude that there is "no difference" between flushed and unflushed bud. Myself included.
> 
> And to be honest, because of how much variance there is in nature, if someone here did claim to notice a difference in yield between flushed and unflushed, I would disregard as bullshit anyhow. You'd need a LOT of plants in such a study to reach any sort of acceptable statistical group.


and even then the genes in each plant play such a strong role in how a plant develops even with hundreds I don't see how anyone could come with a sound conclusion on increased/decreased yields.


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## k0ijn (Dec 18, 2011)

If we can at least keep it factual and informational instead of turning it into a poo throwing fight.
I have had to delete some posts, name calling, harassment etc will not be tolerated. 
Please just keep it an informational and grown up discussion.


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## bluntdocter (Dec 28, 2011)

i think flushing a lil like once a month threw the whole grow will help prevent salt build up and nute lock out. Yeah if ur doin it right the build up shouldnt be a problem but we all make high mistakes every once in a while ; a lil too much nutes here or there. For the end of the grow season i just cut back on the nutes i use and for the last few days i just use my honey and sweetners till finish... i dont kno bout you guys but i can tell a nicely flushed plant compared to a not flushed at all plant, theres extra salts and additives dat the greenery taste alot better without these high levels of salts.. SN: if ur flushing with jus water u dont need to ph control the water because the ph level is what absorbs ur nutrients thru the roots. So plain water will make the plant use more of its built up ferts. MY OPINION FROM EXPERIENCE AND READING THOUSANDS OF PAGES ABOUT GROWING MARYJANE AND OTHER PLANTS.


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## Sunbiz1 (Dec 28, 2011)

bluntdocter said:


> i think flushing a lil like once a month threw the whole grow will help prevent salt build up and nute lock out. Yeah if ur doin it right the build up shouldnt be a problem but we all make high mistakes every once in a while ; a lil too much nutes here or there. For the end of the grow season i just cut back on the nutes i use and for the last few days i just use my honey and sweetners till finish... i dont kno bout you guys but i can tell a nicely flushed plant compared to a not flushed at all plant, theres extra salts and additives dat the greenery taste alot better without these high levels of salts.. SN: if ur flushing with jus water u dont need to ph control the water because the ph level is what absorbs ur nutrients thru the roots. So plain water will make the plant use more of its built up ferts. MY OPINION FROM EXPERIENCE AND READING THOUSANDS OF PAGES ABOUT GROWING MARYJANE AND OTHER PLANTS.


Grow right in a soil medium, and flushing becomes as irrelevant as...

[video=youtube;eUyLwXhqlWU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUyLwXhqlWU[/video]


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## thump easy (Dec 28, 2011)

dam im high that triped me out.. i dont get it...


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## Sunbiz1 (Dec 28, 2011)

thump easy said:


> dam im high that triped me out.. i dont get it...


LOL, it was a sarcastic joke towards the entire concept and numerous threads devoted to flooding plants.


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## DutchKillsRambo (Dec 28, 2011)

Jesus the only end to this fight is doing it for yourself. Ive smoked from my garden flushed and unflushed and didn't notice a difference. My friend that grows literally down the street from me flushes and he notices a big difference. Its all personal preference people. So try out both and see what YOU think. Thats the only way.

Its an amazing plant that will never cease to amaze you. Once you realize it only goes as far as you want it to, everything changes. Flush or not flush its all personal preference. Just like lights, nutes, temps, strain etc. So stop arguing and just enjoy how truly amazing this plant is. I know I am.


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## Harrekin (Dec 29, 2011)

DutchKillsRambo said:


> Jesus the only end to this fight is doing it for yourself. Ive smoked from my garden flushed and unflushed and didn't notice a difference. My friend that grows literally down the street from me flushes and he notices a big difference. Its all personal preference people. So try out both and see what YOU think. Thats the only way.
> 
> Its an amazing plant that will never cease to amaze you. Once you realize it only goes as far as you want it to, everything changes. Flush or not flush its all personal preference. Just like lights, nutes, temps, strain etc. So stop arguing and just enjoy how truly amazing this plant is. I know I am.


That's the biggest crock of $h1t Iv ever read...lights, nutes, temps are NOT personal preference as you seem to claim. They need strong lights, a sufficient level of certain nutrients and perfect temperatures to grow properly. Yes you can 
make it about "personal preference" if you want, but giving advice contrary to how plants are supposed to grow is stupid. 

Too many stupid noobs that think it's all about getting a medal just for participating...no there is a clearly defined right and wrong way to grow plant, why does everyone insist their way is supposedly special?


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## DutchKillsRambo (Dec 29, 2011)

How are lights, nutes etc. not personal preference? Is someone forcing you to use a particular light setup or brand of nutes? Please explain what bad advice I gave.




Harrekin said:


> That's the biggest crock of $h1t Iv ever read...lights, nutes, temps are NOT personal preference as you seem to claim. They need strong lights, a sufficient level of certain nutrients and perfect temperatures to grow properly. Yes you can
> make it about "personal preference" if you want, but giving advice contrary to how plants are supposed to grow is stupid.
> 
> Too many stupid noobs that think it's all about getting a medal just for participating...no there is a clearly defined right and wrong way to grow plant, why does everyone insist their way is supposedly special?


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## wbd (Dec 29, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> That's the biggest crock of $h1t Iv ever read...lights, nutes, temps are NOT personal preference as you seem to claim. They need strong lights, a sufficient level of certain nutrients and perfect temperatures to grow properly. Yes you can
> make it about "personal preference" if you want, but giving advice contrary to how plants are supposed to grow is stupid.
> 
> Too many stupid noobs that think it's all about getting a medal just for participating...no there is a clearly defined right and wrong way to grow plant, why does everyone insist their way is supposedly special?


Could you point me to the study that demonstrates actual, measured (not theoretical) loss of productivity in crop due to pre-harvest flush?

I'm getting tired of checking these threads every day looking for actual evidence of this. All I see is people copying and pasting from botany books and expressing their feelings.


Any day now...


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