# Vertical Bare Bulbs for Tall Plants



## collective gardener (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm looking for input from growers who have grown, or even better, are currently growing very tall plants by using bare hanging vertical bulbs.

I have been seeing more and more of this method in various media. We have a medical op that we like to keep to under 99 plants. That is really our only limitation. I'm currently running 10 - 1000 watt lights, but will add 4 more this week. All of these lights are currently being used in air cooled reflectors over short wide plants. 

In addition to the stuff above, I have set aside a 12' x 8' area in the flower room to try some of this vertical bare bulb lighting I have seen. We'll grow the plants in 10 - 20 gallon containers (or maybe larger?). I have enough cooling power to run about 6000 watts in this area.

I would love to hear any ideas or experiences with light spacing, height, yield, etc...

Or, if anyone has links to some pics or threads detailing this method.

Thank you all in advance.

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/407048-20-000-watt-medical-grow.html


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## Mother's Finest (Feb 20, 2011)

I remember reading an article by Kyle Kushman where he was saying that he could fit more plants under a vertical bulb than a horizontal. We've always used 400w's and you should have 600w or better for a vertical, so we've never tried them ourselves. They work very nicely in hexagonal pot configurations. Obviously, open bulbs don't have the heat removal possibilities that isolated ones do and so are best in very large grow areas where the heat isn't as trapped around the plants.

A stationary, vertical 1000w can support 19 plants in 5gal buckets using a hexagonal pattern. Roughly the same quality would be had using a 1000w horizontal for 16 plants in a 4x4 pattern, just a little less yield..


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## collective gardener (Feb 20, 2011)

Anyone have anything else on this???


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## weldergrowingreen (Feb 21, 2011)

i run some my ladies vertical to. you can get more plants around the light plus put some shorties underneath it too. i notice one good thing about vertical growing is that all those buds that really wouldnt amount to anything at the bottoms actually had some mass to them.


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## Wolverine97 (Feb 21, 2011)

collective gardener said:


> Anyone have anything else on this???


If you haven't already, I'd check out Urban Gardener on Youtube. I don't like his methods, but he gets great plant structure and seems to pull quite a nice yield in the end.


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## collective gardener (Feb 22, 2011)

Wolverine97 said:


> If you haven't already, I'd check out Urban Gardener on Youtube. I don't like his methods, but he gets great plant structure and seems to pull quite a nice yield in the end.


A grow on Urban Gardener gave me the idea for this bare bulb system. It was a 40 bulb x 40 bulb flip. OMG...it was legit. The plants looked like an elbow a piece. It was hard to tell the light spacing. Also, the plants had alot of "claw" going. I was suprised since it was such a high dollar grow. 

Thanks for the input. Anything else you come up with would be great.

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/407048-20-000-watt-medical-grow.html


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## rosecitypapa (Feb 22, 2011)

I don't have much experience with vertical as this is my first grow with it. I have to say though, after getting used to the new orientation, I like it much better. The first thing I noticed was the dramatic difference in temp. and air quality. I used to pull my air through a cool tube on a horizontal reflector, now it's just the vertical light with the cool tube still mounted but not connected to venting. The exhaust now pulls directly from the top of the room. I keep the cool tube mounted for I find it useful as I brush up against it working in the garden. The other thing that I noticed is a that my older leaves don't yellow and die out. Some of my plants still have their first set of fan leaves still lush and green and I'm ~32 days into flower (I also feed my plants nitrogen in flower too). I run a 600w 21" from plant centers. Some of my plants have leaves that are 4" away from the cool tube's 6" diameter and loving the increase in lumens without suffering any type of temp burn. 

There are some tweaks in the system to be sure. For one, I'm developing a vertical light mover that works by mounting the light on a rotating disk with the ability to move up and down a predefined distance. My intuition says that having the light move will increase the growth rate in the plant by creating energy pulses by illuminating leaf area that was previously shaded.

The main benefit that I wanted and received from going vertical is removing the light ceiling. I'm running 4 different strains, with one being really legging and showing the claw (black domina). It's the only one with the claw and the same plant in veg doesn't have the claw. I don't know if it's the nute ratio yet or the effects of the lighting. In any case, all 4 strains are at different vertical heights yet they are all in my vertical's "sweet spot" of 21" to plant centers with some branches and leaves 6" away from the light bulb. The added benefit of deeper penetration of my light into the plant's biomass is giving me larger bud sites on the majority of the plant.


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## collective gardener (Feb 22, 2011)

rosecitypapa said:


> I don't have much experience with vertical as this is my first grow with it. I have to say though, after getting used to the new orientation, I like it much better. The first thing I noticed was the dramatic difference in temp. and air quality. I used to pull my air through a cool tube on a horizontal reflector, now it's just the vertical light with the cool tube still mounted but not connected to venting. The exhaust now pulls directly from the top of the room. I keep the cool tube mounted for I find it useful as I brush up against it working in the garden. The other thing that I noticed is a that my older leaves don't yellow and die out. Some of my plants still have their first set of fan leaves still lush and green and I'm ~32 days into flower (I also feed my plants nitrogen in flower too). I run a 600w 21" from plant centers. Some of my plants have leaves that are 4" away from the cool tube's 6" diameter and loving the increase in lumens without suffering any type of temp burn.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



While my intended grow is a little different than yours, thank you for the info. How is the size and density of your main top cola, compared with overhead lighting???


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## Saerimmner (Feb 22, 2011)

this is who you need if your going vertical-- https://www.rollitup.org/search.php?searchid=12726825


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## rosecitypapa (Feb 22, 2011)

I don't even know if I can compare them. I have changed so many different parameters for this grow so I don't know how much the vertical lighting in and of itself is contributing to the increase size and density of my main colas. They are growing faster and thicker but I just can't say right now that it's primarily due to the vertical lighting. I notice that the vertical is bathing the entire length of the cola with some of the light hitting the undersides of the sugar leaves. At times, I think a reflector would be useful but not as they are currently designed. Even if the illumination is the same, the difference in heat makes vertical very appealing.

btw, I admire your grow, I have similar aspirations.


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## collective gardener (Feb 22, 2011)

Saerimmner said:


> this is who you need if your going vertical-- https://www.rollitup.org/search.php?searchid=12726825


Link was busted


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## collective gardener (Feb 22, 2011)

Thanks for all the advise on my upcoming vert style. Please, everybody, read the thread cafefully to see what it is I'm trying to do here. I don't want to just grow vert. I want to grow TREES amongst vertical hanging bulbs. The idea is to get as much yield per plant, therefore maximizing our yield with under 99 plants. We are currently trying the "bend them down and out" approach to make large diameter short plants. The idea with the vertical is to make tall trees that get close to an lb/plant.

Thank You, Guys.


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## Saerimmner (Feb 22, 2011)

collective gardener said:


> Link was busted


 sorry try this one


https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/101347-critical-mass-tree-grow-x.html


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## [email protected] (Feb 22, 2011)

booooooya this is just what i needed to see to give me the motivation and confidence to setup my 1000w mh/hps cooltube with these fans i already have. that guy had no cooling?my exhaust and light cooling will be seperate to promote good airflow still.i will be using fans from airhockey tables one pushes one pulls the one pulling is hooked to 4" duct routed out of room.how does this sound?


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## [email protected] (Feb 22, 2011)

id really like a response on this as i have done everything besides hanging the shit.thanks and again excellent thread


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## Wolverine97 (Feb 22, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> booooooya this is just what i needed to see to give me the motivation and confidence to setup my 1000w mh/hps cooltube with these fans i already have. that guy had no cooling?my exhaust and light cooling will be seperate to promote good airflow still.i will be using fans from airhockey tables one pushes one pulls the one pulling is hooked to 4" duct routed out of room.how does this sound?


Not even close to enough airflow. Quadruple that amount, and _maybe_...


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## [email protected] (Feb 22, 2011)

*rosecitypapa*

don't have much experience with vertical as this is my first grow with it. I have to say though, after getting used to the new orientation, I like it much better. The first thing I noticed was the dramatic difference in temp. and air quality. I used to pull my air through a cool tube on a horizontal reflector, now it's just the vertical light with the cool tube still mounted but not connected to venting. The exhaust now pulls directly from the top of the room. I keep the cool tube mounted for I find it useful as I brush up against it working in the garden


rosecitypapa used no venting and it worked fine. surely a 1000w with DECENT venting is running cooler than a 600w with NO venting right? rosecitypapa could you chime in here and clear up any errors in judgement or misunderstandings?


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## [email protected] (Feb 22, 2011)

(both airhockey fans as light cooling) and a good squirrel cage for room exhaust for fresh air didnt know if that was clear.


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## Wolverine97 (Feb 22, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> (both airhockey fans as light cooling) and a good squirrel cage for room exhaust for fresh air didnt know if that was clear.


Oh. Hey, what's that over there (points)?...


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## [email protected] (Feb 22, 2011)

yeah? sweet i cant wait to run that big boy ive been veging with my 400w mh cause scared to run my precious 1000w to hot and break it.


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## [email protected] (Feb 22, 2011)

yeah sorry about that i got a problem about not being very specific.


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## rosecitypapa (Feb 23, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> *rosecitypapa*
> 
> don't have much experience with vertical as this is my first grow with it. I have to say though, after getting used to the new orientation, I like it much better. The first thing I noticed was the dramatic difference in temp. and air quality. I used to pull my air through a cool tube on a horizontal reflector, now it's just the vertical light with the cool tube still mounted but not connected to venting. The exhaust now pulls directly from the top of the room. I keep the cool tube mounted for I find it useful as I brush up against it working in the garden
> 
> ...


There was venting for the room but through the light. When I removed the venting from the light (Ducting running out of the top of the cooltube in the vertical orientation), the room exhaust was not pulling through the light or ducting any more, thereby increasing it's efficiency. The airflow around a vertical bulb with no reflector is much better than one that has a horizontal hood. Heat becomes a much minor issue. With lower heat stress, the plants can get closer to the bulb thereby making more use of the lumin output at a given distance - the lighting sweetspot. I feel that's the elegance of vertical, how close you can get the plant to the light.

In other words, it gives the plant the ability to actively move toward the light for increased metabolism or move away due to heat and slow metabolism. It doesn't get trapped in the 'heat ceiling' of a horizontal set-up, trying to grow but forward into harsh conditions.

I think collective gardener's biggest problem once he goes vertical will be curbing his enthusiasm. On a side note, figuring out the right combination of growth medium around a vertical is my current holy grail.


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## [email protected] (Feb 23, 2011)

yeah awesome i will def be adequately moving air in room with squirrel cage exhaust and seperately ventilated vertical cooltube i also love the thought of the light being so close and making so much energy for plants. i also love the idea of some sort of crazy sideways/vertical low stress training thing. what do you think about that? i have a big room and strong light with good ventilation so lots of room to experiment huh?


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## collective gardener (Feb 23, 2011)

Alright. It took a bit, but we finally have a real discussion on this deal. And, so far, no Ass Clowns mucking up the thread with negative energy. Thank you, people. so much for rising above.

Have you guys seen some of the big ops like I've been talking about? The 40/40 light flip on Urban Gardener? All of these ops are bare bulb no air cooling. I think that we can get away with this in a larger room setting. The 10' ceiling helps a bunch. 

Keep bring inbg it on gang. I haven't seen perfection, yet.


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## rosecitypapa (Feb 23, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> yeah awesome i will def be adequately moving air in room with squirrel cage exhaust and seperately ventilated vertical cooltube i also love the thought of the light being so close and making so much energy for plants. i also love the idea of some sort of crazy sideways/vertical low stress training thing. what do you think about that? i have a big room and strong light with good ventilation so lots of room to experiment huh?


Just make sure that the cooltubes intake isn't at the bottom of the room where co2 likes to hang, it might not make any difference but to me the air quality changed in my room from where I was drawing air to exhaust from. 

I had a similar idea in vertically training. Set everything up, but in the end I enjoyed the natural form of cannabis and chose not to train.


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## [email protected] (Feb 23, 2011)

i would have 1 1000w in a 7.5ft by 7.5 by 8ft height so should i go ,vertical ,bare, no fan, vertical cooltube with slightly weak fans from air hockey table which would exhaust 20-30" below the celing not the top on rosecitypapas recomendation, or...this may be a bad mofo....vertical bare bulbs with the airhockey fans for it and stanley lasko squirrel cage fan for exhaust? i think it could be money fellas? vertical bare bulbs with fans as well for collectivegardener and rosecity papa maybe even?


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## [email protected] (Feb 23, 2011)

the fans at the bottom would be providing the plants with co2 rather than taking it right?with the bare bulb and fans i mean?


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## Gastanker (Feb 23, 2011)

7' plants with a double cool tube (2kWs) between each grouping. Maintenance would be a bitch though. 







Sealed room and c02 all the way - might as well if running cool tubes.


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## Wolverine97 (Feb 23, 2011)

Gastanker said:


> 7' plants with a double cool tube (2kWs) between each grouping. Maintenance would be a bitch though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes it would.


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## rosecitypapa (Feb 23, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> i would have 1 1000w in a 7.5ft by 7.5 by 8ft height so should i go ,vertical ,bare, no fan, vertical cooltube with slightly weak fans from air hockey table which would exhaust 20-30" below the celing not the top on rosecitypapas recomendation, or...this may be a bad mofo....vertical bare bulbs with the airhockey fans for it and stanley lasko squirrel cage fan for exhaust? i think it could be money fellas? vertical bare bulbs with fans as well for collectivegardener and rosecity papa maybe even?


Sure that framework would work, you'll just improve as you go along. I currently do not run a fan pulling air through the cool tube but I'm rethinking that. One of my colas is almost touching the cool tube, don't want to burn it! 
I'm on the fence about keeping my focus on a single light in the center or a field of lights within the canopy. In either case, I like the idea of protection from exploding lights, but you do sacrifice some lumens.

I'd like to try having a fan above a bare bulb sucking air past the bulb. It would stimulate a tube torus of airflow that's pretty trippy when you think about it. It reminds me of viktor schauberger's research with vortex energy and water. 

Fan underneath blowing up or one at the top sucking, these natural responses to cooling the light also has an unintended benefit of certain type of dominant airflow. An airflow that energizes and vitalizes the immediate area.

The vertical reflectors on the market now don't accommodate for that current of air flowing up past the bulb. It's a missing piece of tech.

And if you are growing trees you'll need a bulb every 3 ft of vertical space.


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## rosecitypapa (Feb 23, 2011)

Gastanker said:


> 7' plants with a double cool tube (2kWs) between each grouping. Maintenance would be a bitch though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you dropped a plant or two to provide access to the inner rings, what's there to maintain? 

btw Cool drawing !


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## Gastanker (Feb 23, 2011)




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## collective gardener (Feb 23, 2011)

Gastanker said:


> 7' plants with a double cool tube (2kWs) between each grouping. Maintenance would be a bitch though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice graphic, man. Well done.


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## Gastanker (Feb 23, 2011)

collective gardener said:


> Nice graphic, man. Well done.


Certain things must be taken into consideration.







Looks good. A ton of light in the center, floor and ceiling quite a bit less and the walls very little.


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## [email protected] (Feb 25, 2011)

what about not a sealed room but one where the fans intake from outside the room and exhaust outside it? thatd be good temp control and heat the basement cause the air doesnt get in the room only the cool tube. still having a passive intake and power exhaust though so the cooltubes just like a heater. and rosecitypapa that rhauberg vortex shit is pretty wild sounding and its reassuring to hear you like the sounds of fans on bare bulb too.


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## [email protected] (Feb 25, 2011)

viktor schauberger's

rosecitypapa that rhauberg vortex shit is pretty wild
lol i tried to remember instead of checking


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## rosecitypapa (Feb 25, 2011)

Gastanker said:


>


yep *Gastanker* that looks like my next grow. Although with that many plants around a 600w, they can only be about 6" tall before they are put into flower, otherwise they grow through each other too much. I haven't tried it with a 1000w.

That lighting software is pretty cool, however the parameters that is gives are misleading. The vertical bulbs throw light everywhere including the ceiling. I do think a reflector based loosely on a magnetron would work well. Essentially, it would be a parabolic reflector above each plant in the above configuration linked together as a ring. The vertical bulb would (as it is hung lower) have a clear direct path of light into each reflector. The reflector's design is such that it takes the vertical bulb's path of light and redirects it down onto the top of the plants. That way one can enjoy the benefits of the vertical lighting side lighting the plants as well as capturing light thrown up to the ceiling and channeling it back down to the top of the plants. The challenge is to create the reflector array with a large inner open ring so the benefits of the vertical's airflow dynamic is enjoyed. I have an intuition that a fresnel type design with intermittent reflector surfaces and air gaps would work.

I suppose the room ceiling itself could be modified to be somewhat of a parabolic reflector.

*[email protected]*, yes, researching viktor is the one of those rabbitholes that can flip your thinking inside out!


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## collective gardener (Feb 26, 2011)

I put in 2 bare bulb 600's in the grow today. We;re going to add 4 more and slide them around the 12 - 1000's in reflectors. I have about 20 plants in veg that I'm not topping. Once they're about 4 feet tall, we'll move em into the bloom room and pack em around the 6 - 600's. I chose 600's to start so I can see what the heat load will be. If it works well, we'll move in some 1000's and remove some of the 1000's in reflectors. It comes a time where we just have to start trying shit out. Thanks for all the input, and please keep it coming.,


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## [email protected] (Feb 26, 2011)

thats the shit dude.


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## [email protected] (Feb 26, 2011)

i made amazingly strong cannabutter on my first time trying that today! lol just remembered that. but really,i had 14oz of schwag trim and put it to 2lbs butter cause the trim was free and it was all i had any way. it was good schwag leaf if that makes any sense,it was sugary ya know.


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## rosecitypapa (Feb 27, 2011)

collective gardener said:


> I put in 2 bare bulb 600's in the grow today. We;re going to add 4 more and slide them around the 12 - 1000's in reflectors. I have about 20 plants in veg that I'm not topping. Once they're about 4 feet tall, we'll move em into the bloom room and pack em around the 6 - 600's. I chose 600's to start so I can see what the heat load will be. If it works well, we'll move in some 1000's and remove some of the 1000's in reflectors. It comes a time where we just have to start trying shit out. Thanks for all the input, and please keep it coming.,


*collective gardner*, that's an awesome grow you have happening, it's exciting!

btw, what kind of ballasts and bulbs do you run and what was your thinking around it?


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## collective gardener (Feb 28, 2011)

rosecitypapa said:


> *collective gardner*, that's an awesome grow you have happening, it's exciting!
> 
> btw, what kind of ballasts and bulbs do you run and what was your thinking around it?


I started with a couple lumatek 1000's. The next 2 I bought were bad out of the box. I switched to Phantoms for the next 16 - 1000's and 4 - 600's. I like the Phantoms for a couple reasons: They are sold by Hydrofarm so any probs we have my hydro store can get dealt with directly from Hydrofarm (Lumateks are 3rd party). They come with the adaptor to work with either Sun System or Hydrofarm reflectors (Lumateks only come with 1 or the other). The mounting system on the Phantoms holds them a couple inches off the wall, increasing air flow and reducing heat. I get the 1000's for $289 vs $299 for the Lumateks.

I'm kind of anal with my veg lighting. People concentrate so much on bloom lighting that they forget how importan a good veg is. This is especially true in my grow because I need my plants to really yield with my limitted numbers. From cutting the clone till going into bloom is 8 weeks.

I start with the clones under a T-8 flourrescent grow light. Cheap, not too bright.

Once rooted they go under a T-5 in a 4" rockwool block for a week. This is to develope enough roots to deal with the real lights. By the end of that week, the T-5 is almost touching the tops. 

Next, we transplant into 5 gallon pots and go onto a 4x8 table with 2 - 1000 watt Hortilux Daylight Blue's in Adjustawing Reflectors. I like the daylight Blues because of the VERY tight node spacing they provide. The Adjustawing is my favorite reflector, bar none. If it was somehow air cooled, I'd have 20 of them in the room. I use it at this stage because I feel this first 2 weeks of serious veg growth is the most important. These tight nodes will ultimately be my main branching...and I want alot of it.

After these plants start crowding, the go on the floor under 4 - Sun Pulse 6.4k Pulse Start Metal Halides in Sun System Block Buster Reflectors. These bulbs are made for digital ballasts, are really bright, and stay bright for close to a year. The 6.4k color temp provides enough true blue for tight nodes. But the real reason I choose these is for penetration. The plants are getting bushy now and I need a light that can get down in the nooks and crannys. The daylight blue is a better spectrum, but not as bright as a pulse start.

For Blooming I use the Digilux HPS. Once again, it's designed for digital ballasts. The color has some blue (much like the Hortilux Eye HPS), and it pumps out 155,000 lumens. I chose this over the Hortilux (a bulb I've used for many years) because I believe that the hortilux was not designed for digital ballasts and will fade early. 

I hope this answers your questions.


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## mellokitty (Mar 1, 2011)

sorry i only read the first page but is this what you mean?:

few things: 1) can you *tell we're mid build? 
2) the t5s are temporary/supplemental 
3) upgrading to 'code' for our medigrow, i'll let you know when it's done and i start a grow diary... we're doing 'vertical bare bulbs with trees' just like you asked for....


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## collective gardener (Mar 2, 2011)

mellokitty said:


> sorry i only read the first page but is this what you mean?:
> View attachment 1470122
> few things: 1) can you *tell we're mid build?
> 2) the t5s are temporary/supplemental
> 3) upgrading to 'code' for our medigrow, i'll let you know when it's done and i start a grow diary... we're doing 'vertical bare bulbs with trees' just like you asked for....


Yeah. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Have you used this method before? I'd love to hear all the greasy details: light spacing, plant size, training, plant/light layout, yield per plant, yield per watt, light height.

We are also a legal med grow. Currently running 12 - 1000 watt lights in the bloom room, and 6 - 1000 watt lights in veg. I keep roughly 45 plants in veg and 45 in bloom at any point in time. That's roughly 4 plants/light. Needless to say, we're trying to get the most yield per plant as possible. Yield/watt and per sq ft are not as important. I can always add lights and space, but I can't add plants. Our current crops are FIM'd and tied down and out, giving us 3 foot plants that are very wide. We're trying to determine if we'd be better off with a settup like yours.

Check out our grow so you can see what we're dealing with. Any info would be great. You are exactly the person I have been wanting to talk to.

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/407048-20-000-watt-medical-grow.html

AND, the op looks fantastic so far. I am all too familiar with how much work you guys have done.


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## mellokitty (Mar 3, 2011)

sorry for the delay, i just realized i forgot to sub to this thread.... (subbed now)
just quickly, because i have to run out the door soon:
we've used this method for years, and know a few people that have/do. the magic ratio seems to be 3 or 4 plants/light; i've seen this in dirt and hydro, large and small scale, and it seems to be the best for light dist/yield/ease of use, especially since you seem to have some shrubby ladies ready to go (sorry i only skimmed the first couple pages)? we're in rush mode right now because our own ladies are getting, um, 'unruly' where they're being babysat, and we don't want to ask the nice folks who are already doing us a favour to do our LST for us too . 

so jealous. our plant allowance is less than half that. 

the vertical donkey dicks have certain disadvantages as well:
1) if you're not careful where you put your plants back, you can come back to singed branches.
2) since you're moving away from vented hoods/cooltubes/etc. (again, sorry, i haven't taken a good look at your room...) you need to adjust your vent capabilities to accomodate the extra heat.
3) it's not a party until you stand back up and take one of them to the back of the neck/ear/shoulder....fun!

that said, most of us who've tried it have never looked back. ^these become somewhat moot once you've adjusted to them, and it's nice to see all the light getting used efficiently by everyone.

gotta run for now but keep up the good work! (and thank you!) looking forward to swapping more notes....


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## collective gardener (Mar 3, 2011)

Thanks Kitty. We're going to finish up the Bubbas we have in bloom under the reflectors. This will give me a chance to study your grow (you WILL be posting pictures, I hope). We have 20 Lavander X Afgan X Purple Kush vegetating un-topped. These will be our test bed for the vertical bulbs. I think we'll start with about 6 bulbs. I can get the added vent capacity when we disconnect the lighting venting for those 6 lights. That venting will then be room venting. I'm really exited to try this. 20+ years in this game and I can still get exited. Yipeee.

Looking forward to seeing your grow in full operation. Good luck with your code compliance...it can be a bitch.


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## mellokitty (Mar 4, 2011)

hopefully the in-house committee approves enough of what happens to the girls to let me post them...  they really are kind of lanky and out-of-hand right now (not the best way to make a first impression, you know? lol) and i know hubby's not happy about that. we shall see.... 
right now we're working with mostly og with a smattering of bubbas.... definitely good to start with a smaller sample; i'm a big fan of 'comfort zone' style gardening.

will let you know when i start my grow journal for sure....


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## collective gardener (Mar 4, 2011)

mellokitty said:


> hopefully the in-house committee approves enough of what happens to the girls to let me post them...  they really are kind of lanky and out-of-hand right now (not the best way to make a first impression, you know? lol) and i know hubby's not happy about that. we shall see....
> right now we're working with mostly og with a smattering of bubbas.... definitely good to start with a smaller sample; i'm a big fan of 'comfort zone' style gardening.
> 
> will let you know when i start my grow journal for sure....


Most of our grow is Bubbas. They aren't a real bushy plant. I'm always suprised how much they yield despite looking lanky during veg. I've never had a Bubba form a true cola. It's more individual nuggets. I'm sure with the amount of light you have those nuggets will be rock hard and heavy. Tell the hubby to show em off with a qualification. Everyone has had a grow that got off to a less than perfect start. Either way, good luck fellow Bubba growers.


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## mellokitty (Mar 4, 2011)

omg *tell me about it.... just finished helping a friend of mine do stalk-support on some bubbas. it's like the never-ending plant when you're looking at it from underneath. 
looking forward to working with more bubbas though. our og is a starting to be a bit 'tired' i think.

hubby *is a bit of a perfectionist lol.... on the one hand, he's kind of grumpy about the girls being so lanky, on the other hand, it's part of his set of murphy laws that the first run out of a room is bound to be a bit of a write-off (especially when you end up building around the babies towards the end, like we have....*sigh*)


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## collective gardener (Mar 4, 2011)

mellokitty said:


> omg *tell me about it.... just finished helping a friend of mine do stalk-support on some bubbas. it's like the never-ending plant when you're looking at it from underneath.
> looking forward to working with more bubbas though. our og is a starting to be a bit 'tired' i think.
> 
> hubby *is a bit of a perfectionist lol.... on the one hand, he's kind of grumpy about the girls being so lanky, on the other hand, it's part of his set of murphy laws that the first run out of a room is bound to be a bit of a write-off (especially when you end up building around the babies towards the end, like we have....*sigh*)


Know all about building around live plants. The original plan was to complete room 100% before any plants. Well, a friend offered 30 buubas just after we painted. They were about 1 foot tall...I couldn't resist. So, the rest of the build is goig at 1/4 speed. Then he shows up with 25 of the Lavader cross. I took those too. Yesterday we were installing carbon filters while working around 30 big ass blooming plants...saw dust all over them. Today, we're running ducting and watering and pruning and bending and transplanting and cutting clones and installing more light and installing an AC and and and...I'm tired just writing it.

We're lucky in that this 1st grow will not be a write off. We have enough space and light to just use brute force to get us through these. We'll work on fine tuning technique next batch.


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## mellokitty (Mar 5, 2011)

collective gardener said:


> We're lucky in that this 1st grow will not be a write off. We have enough space and light to just use brute force to get us through these. We'll work on fine tuning technique next batch.


indeed. and ours isn't going to be a WRITEOFF writeoff either (hopefully), lanky means tall and that could be good (just more canopy control). stunted babies, or if we hadn't had reliable babysitters up to this point. now *that would be a writeoff.... *knocking wood*

this has been a week of collecting karma points, everybody and their dog needs some sort of hand with their show, and i'm happy to oblige, but seriously, when it rains it pours eh? i wish they would just up and legalise it so i can start whoring out my 'cannabis service service' better and have consistent work instead of being booked 'can-you-get-here-yesterday' at half a dozen places only every so often. janitorial, botanical, 'landscaping' (or an extended haircut if you wish), electrical, plumbing, all manner of repetetive tasks, talking in from the ledge, we do it all....


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## Wolverine97 (Mar 5, 2011)

mellokitty said:


> indeed. and ours isn't going to be a WRITEOFF writeoff either (hopefully), lanky means tall and that could be good (just more canopy control). stunted babies, or if we hadn't had reliable babysitters up to this point. now *that would be a writeoff.... *knocking wood*
> 
> this has been a week of collecting karma points, everybody and their dog needs some sort of hand with their show, and i'm happy to oblige, but seriously, when it rains it pours eh? i wish they would just up and legalise it so i can start whoring out my 'cannabis service service' better and have consistent work instead of being booked 'can-you-get-here-yesterday' at half a dozen places only every so often. janitorial, botanical, 'landscaping' (or an extended haircut if you wish), electrical, plumbing, all manner of repetetive tasks, talking in from the ledge, we do it all....


Hello kitty, good points all.


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## collective gardener (Mar 5, 2011)

mellokitty said:


> indeed. and ours isn't going to be a WRITEOFF writeoff either (hopefully), lanky means tall and that could be good (just more canopy control). stunted babies, or if we hadn't had reliable babysitters up to this point. now *that would be a writeoff.... *knocking wood*
> 
> this has been a week of collecting karma points, everybody and their dog needs some sort of hand with their show, and i'm happy to oblige, but seriously, when it rains it pours eh? i wish they would just up and legalise it so i can start whoring out my 'cannabis service service' better and have consistent work instead of being booked 'can-you-get-here-yesterday' at half a dozen places only every so often. janitorial, botanical, 'landscaping' (or an extended haircut if you wish), electrical, plumbing, all manner of repetetive tasks, talking in from the ledge, we do it all....


Sounds like your plants are going to be fine. With your lighting I don't see tall plants being a problem. Hell, that may even work for you!

You're preaching to the choir on "up and legalize it". Here in US, medical is legal in state, but not federal, some counties say no, some counties want huge grow ops, but the feds say no, in my county no dispenaries are zoned for, if you advertise a delivery service they will bust you, but if you keep your head down it's ok. In Los Angeles, they zoned 200 dispensaries for closure AFTER charging them all a huge fee to be in business...now if they try to enforce the zoning they will get sued. It goes on and on.

Great idea on "hired gun" cannabis services that extend beyond trimming.


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## mellokitty (Mar 6, 2011)

same here, wading through cannabis laws has been like sloughing through gray sludge for the last few years. one of the municipalities in our area is facing a class action suit right now because the local police were raiding *anybody with a suspected indoor garden (legal, illegal, cannabis, non-cannabis) and then slapping the homeowners with a not-to-be-sneezed-at 'inspection fee' in the $5k range (as in, making innocent people pay for the service of having their homes turned upside down) (because of course they did *worse things to the people who actually had cannagardens). one ornery survivalist with an indoor veg garden put his foot down, a bunch of folks jumped on the bandwagon, and now the city's up shit creek from what i hear. 
the common sense among medigrowers here is to stay definitively on the right side of the rules, err on the safe side, because it's much easier to say, "look, you can see i'm obviously following all the rules now smeg off and bring me a warrant," than to have them come in on reasonable cause, fuck your shit up, revoke your card, and have to spend years fighting it in court. most cardholders/caregivers i know have gone to the police themselves to give them a head's up, and our police here certainly seem to appreciate that. what i want to know is if i can call them if the door comes flying off the hinges and it's *not them. (i also hope to never have to find out. *knocking wood*) (if it happens i'm calling them anyway and fighting all the way down the river to set a precedent that makes them HAVE to protect us) (still *knocking*)

the majority of riu are probably members of that choir, eh ? i just envision a world where growers don't have to be afraid to hire an experienced stranger (off an ad, say, or the phone book) to do the part i glory in. i mean, as far as whoring my canna-knowledge out, i cut my teeth on trimming as most of us did. but i didn't know i was *alive* until i'd leaf-plucked so much i developed an unfamiliar-looking callous on the side of my index finger; or taken apart, bleached, scrubbed, and put back together a barn worth of aeroponics with only the cd in my discman because i forgot to pack any others.... (i'm pretty sure i can still whistle the entire melody of "the four seasons" from memory if i try hard enough...) *roflmao*. and how many of us could have at some point used a hand with something other than trimming and still had to slug it ourselves because the available help was lacking in either skill or trustworthiness?

speaking of which... our girls finally had to come home a couple days ago. most of them are as tall as i am; we have our work cut out for us....


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## collective gardener (Mar 6, 2011)

Kitty,

Sounds like the Gestapo is alive and well there, as well. The police here do a little thing where they sieze your gear, but do not charge you. HOWEVER, if you try to get your gear back, they will charge you. Most people are afraid of the fight, so they just go away. I don't blame them. 

Colorado seems to have their shit together. They regulate the shit out of the med industry, but everything is out in the open. I can deal with the fees, the fines, the inspections, the code compliance, and the taxing. I can't take the "one day it's ok" and"one day it's not" legal atmosphere that's prevailing here. My lawyer tells me we're legal and cool, yet a med grow like my own got busted and the grower charged last month. They had 600 patients and all the paperwork. Cops entered without a warrant, took all the gear, and arrested the worker. They aren't charging the collective...just the worker. My god. We are living in so much fear. I'm just hanging on, hoping that things will continue to head in the right direction.


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## mellokitty (Mar 7, 2011)

collective gardener said:


> They aren't charging the collective...just the worker.


i can *feel helper d's look of alarm....


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## mellokitty (Mar 7, 2011)

ok, so *this makes everything a bit more of a pain in the butt.....


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## TheLastWood (Mar 7, 2011)

We should all sell our houses, pool our cash and move to an island where we can grow together year round and be a cannabis society.

Its such a shame because there's so many things you can learn about life and nature from growing. From the healthiness of your water supply to all the beneficial micro-organisms that make our world go round that non growers know nothing about. The info banks are endless and in any other application the knowledge would be reverred. People can't get past the "generalization" of marijuana and marijuana users. I know its changed my life and I will grow for the rest of it. 

Sorry to hijack gardener I was reading yours and kittys convo and felt inspired.


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## collective gardener (Mar 7, 2011)

mellokitty said:


> i can *feel helper d's look of alarm....


No worries. Helper D prides himself on his ability to stay medicated beyond any chance of "alarm".


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## collective gardener (Mar 7, 2011)

mellokitty said:


> View attachment 1480388ok, so *this makes everything a bit more of a pain in the butt.....


 
Oh yes. Building the grow during the grow. So much fun. You aren't a grower until you've cleaned sawdust off of 30 plants.


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## collective gardener (Mar 7, 2011)

TheLastWood said:


> We should all sell our houses, pool our cash and move to an island where we can grow together year round and be a cannabis society.
> 
> Its such a shame because there's so many things you can learn about life and nature from growing. From the healthiness of your water supply to all the beneficial micro-organisms that make our world go round that non growers know nothing about. The info banks are endless and in any other application the knowledge would be reverred. People can't get past the "generalization" of marijuana and marijuana users. I know its changed my life and I will grow for the rest of it.
> 
> Sorry to hijack gardener I was reading yours and kittys convo and felt inspired.


I hear ya, Wood. You know, it's a double edged sword. On the one hand, full legalization would be great. On the other, that could invite a virtual corporate takeover of this industry. One of the most amazing things about the "info banks" you speak of is that they're mostly from the research of small ops like yours, mine, and kitties. What other science is dominated by 10,000 garage size home operations, linked together by forums like this one. It's fucking amazing when you consider it.


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## mellokitty (Mar 7, 2011)

collective gardener said:


> Oh yes. Building the grow during the grow. So much fun. You aren't a grower until you've cleaned sawdust off of 30 plants.


...or drywall dust, or you've broken a borrowed bulb with a screwdriver in your pocketclap....*sigh* i'm sure you know all too well....
and i really have to give the credit to my poor overworked man. i just have to make sure to feed and water the two-legged offspring.


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## Sr. Verde (Mar 9, 2011)

Hey collective! You got me out of bed this morning, to find this thread for you! 

>> http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f131/mr-dizzles-doubleds-mpb-style-jockin-log-14921 <<

3 week veg. 4 POUND plants.


http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/attachments/57225d1260143749-mr-dizzles-doubleds-mpb-style-jockin-log-004.jpg.att

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/attachments/58584d1261117673-mr-dizzles-doubleds-mpb-style-jockin-log-001.jpg.att

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/attachments/60953d1262855467-mr-dizzles-doubleds-mpb-style-jockin-log-002.jpg.att

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/attachments/66230d1265496434-mr-dizzles-doubleds-mpb-style-jockin-log-003.jpg.att


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## collective gardener (Mar 9, 2011)

Sr. Verde said:


> Hey collective! You got me out of bed this morning, to find this thread for you!
> 
> >> http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f131/mr-dizzles-doubleds-mpb-style-jockin-log-14921 <<
> 
> ...


 
SHit Fuck Howdy! Gotta be some sativas, eh? We go 4000K vertical in T-Minus 25 days. I have 11 bubbas coming out April 5. We're gonna dump the reflectors, crank up the AC and put in 10 Lavanders that will have vegged for 60 days. This is only 33% of my bloom area....so it's kind of a big test. We'll leave 8 lights in reflectors until we nail down the vert thing. Every large op i know of is going the bare bulb route. I like the fan facing up in the pics. Thank you a million for these.


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## mellokitty (Mar 11, 2011)

started my journal: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/416008-mellokittys-mellow-medigrow.html

things are going at a snail's pace right now; hopefully i'll have more to talk about soon....


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## mellokitty (Mar 28, 2011)

found another baverber:
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/419280-vertical-tree-grow.html


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