# Upside-down growing



## Hernandez248 (May 11, 2008)

So, I know that it makes no sense to actually put a put plant upside to grow it toward the ground because of geotropism, so I was wondering about planting the plants right-side up but putting them on a scrog where the light is underneath and the buds grow towards them. 

the plants would grow from the sides in regular hydro buckets, clipped to the top of the screen, with a 1000watt hps on the floor. 

I want to do this for a couple reasons. Foliar feeding (Most stomas are on the underside of the leaves). Easier than maintaining an 8-10ft half-circle scrog pointing upwards. 

Comments?


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## big200 (May 11, 2008)

electrocution


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## Hernandez248 (May 11, 2008)

Not even close.


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## DWR (May 11, 2008)

Maybe the water will drop on the hps screen.... causing hotspots....

dunno try it..


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## intensive (May 11, 2008)

you would have to keep moving the plants up as the buds grew down, seems kinda tricky but try it


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## Hernandez248 (May 11, 2008)

why would I move the plants up? Why don't I just have it up to begin with?


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## anhedonia (May 11, 2008)

Im only on my second grow, but doesnt it seem funny that nbody grows like that? I would imagine that its not the way to go simply by observing that you dont read about great harvests by growing with a light upside down.


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## Hernandez248 (May 11, 2008)

Saying not to do something because no one does it when there is no evidence that it wouldn't work, isn't a great statement.

The reason no one has tried it is because most people have tried to put the entire plant upside down, which doesn't work like I said because of geotropism


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## anhedonia (May 11, 2008)

so why would people who grow vegitables or other sunloving plants with HID's use the method your talking about? It doesnt take a genious to think of your idea. You want to tie down your crop and see what happens when you put the lamp upside down?
Ive personally havn't heard of this except for that stupid ad in high times that has that carocell/vertical light thing. I cant think of a bigger waste of money. I just wouldnt want you to ruin your crop trying a bunk idea just because no one know anything, supposedly.
But please correct me if im wrong. Have you tried searching the forums yet? I know Ive seen shit about growing upside down but have never bothered with the idea just because the simple basics of plant growth and maintaining a healthy crop, i dont have any interest in subverting that process. I would think that if it was efficacious in any way, even to cannabis you would know of it. thats just my guess.


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## Unique (May 11, 2008)

Something like this....but bigger.


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## Hernandez248 (May 11, 2008)

yeah no it's cool, I'm not sure about it so I don't think you're wrong, the thing is, I don't know if you're right either. The only reason I want to do this is for height restrictions(with a big dished scrog), I also wanted to know if geotropism affects the buds too. If not, the buds themselves might be a little bigger.


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## losthere (May 11, 2008)

I guess it will depend on which force is grater geotrophism or phototrophism. the plant is going to have two different growth tendincies working against eachother. seems like a lot of stress to put a plant through. however just my opinion. only way to know for sure is to try it.


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## Phrasty (May 12, 2008)

I remember seeing this on an infomercial the other night... I dunno if this will open up ideas for u or if it helps at all.. just something i saw... they growing "tomatoes" too.. lol Its called "Topsy Turvy"








What you all think? Dont think I'd be doing it though.
Phrasty.


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## titanium3g (May 12, 2008)

Phrasty said:


> I remember seeing this on an infomercial the other night... I dunno if this will open up ideas for u or if it helps at all.. just something i saw... they growing "tomatoes" too.. lol Its called "Topsy Turvy"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You could use it, stick a rooted clone in one of those holes on the side of that thing, put a light under it shining towards the ceiling and it will grow upside down. It's been discussed before.....


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## iBLaZe4tozErO (May 12, 2008)

Phrasty said:


> I remember seeing this on an infomercial the other night... I dunno if this will open up ideas for u or if it helps at all.. just something i saw... they growing "tomatoes" too.. lol Its called "Topsy Turvy"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


dude there's a journal with fdd doing this already. Search topsy turvy. Or better yet someone link it for them .. I don't have a cut and paste on my phone.


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## outlawcustombikes (May 12, 2008)

Just a thought,....for what it's worth.....with heat rising, would the heat radiated from a HID be to intense passing by the plant as it was raising? My thought would be to try it and see what happens....keeping the temps down during "lights on" may be the biggest challenge possibly... It's worth a shot though to see what happens. ~Outlaw~


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## TMB77 (May 12, 2008)

ha, its funny that you're asking this question.

Just on the science aspect...you're (as you've already stated) pitting gravitropism against phototropism. I did a similar experiment with pea plants growing in agar. ultimately gravity won, and the plants grew upwards and spread out along the surface of the agar. I can only assume they would have grown up further if the dishes had been placed on their side instead of directly upside down.

so, what happened first was that the seeds were sprouted till about an inch high. I then inverted the dish (called a magenta box, even though its clear) and blocked out the light except coming from below. so the plants had to choose between light and gravity. 

what happened was that they stressed out, their growth was much delayed, they turned upwards and grew away from the light, got kind of chlorotic, and the abaxial (lower side) leaf surface was facing the light...not the greatest thing, the palisade mesophyll under the adaxial (upper) side of the leaf is most efficient for photosynthesis, lots of chlorophyll all in one spot.  just look at the color difference from the top of the leaf to the bottom.

the lowest bend of their stem before they turned back upwards sprouted roots, which traveled downwards towards the light. they simply arent able to ignore the gravitropic response. since the light still got to them even though they grew upwards...it wasnt as determining as gravity.

hope this helped at all.


oh, also, obviously if your HPS is under your plants...you're gonna have to have it covered with a pane of glass, you cant have stuff falling on the light.


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## iBLaZe4tozErO (May 13, 2008)

iBLaZe4tozErO said:


> dude there's a journal with fdd doing this already. Search topsy turvy. Or better yet someone link it for them .. I don't have a cut and paste on my phone.


www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/68065-anyone-know-where-my-topsy.html


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## Hernandez248 (May 13, 2008)

Here's a quick little diagram in paint of what I mean.

The rectangles on the outside are my hydro buckets, the spray paint represents the plants and buds growing over a half-circle screen. The circle in the middle surrounded by the triangle is my bulb with a modified reflector. I didn't feel like drawing in the fans, but they will be there. 

Foliar feeding would be done on the top , with the leaves pointing down the stomas are wide open for feeding and since they aren't being hit by any light.

Geotropism and Phototropism don't work against each other, they are separate. If you put an entire plant upside down geo tropism will make the bud grow up and the roots try to grow down which fucks a lot of stuff with bud plants. With my thing the plants would be growing more horizontally with the buds hanging down towards the light.


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## dak1b (May 13, 2008)

mmmmm get high stay high mmmm


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## TMB77 (May 13, 2008)

Hernandez248 said:


> Geotropism and Phototropism don't work against each other, they are separate. If you put an entire plant upside down geo tropism will make the bud grow up and the roots try to grow down which fucks a lot of stuff with bud plants. With my thing the plants would be growing more horizontally with the buds hanging down towards the light.


you're right, photo and gravi-tropism dont usually fight each other. but your system seems like it would pit them against each other.

I'm not saying it wont work, I hope it does and I look forward to watching your grow progress....but I have a feeling you'll be stressing the girls a bit too much.


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## raeman1990 (May 13, 2008)

well have you ever LST'ed a weed plant?

it automatically grows upwards evern if you point it down... it knows which way is up


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## Hernandez248 (May 13, 2008)

That's because the light is always above it. I've never done it this way, so I'm not sure how it will react.


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## Drrift&Smoke (May 13, 2008)

if you read fdd's journal on the topsy turvy hes got a pic that shows that the roots dont care (about growing upwards) to answer that question


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## babygoat17 (May 15, 2008)

i have seen a setup like that for tomatoes on tv works great


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## ORECAL (May 15, 2008)

Hernandez248 said:


> Here's a quick little diagram in paint of what I mean.
> 
> The rectangles on the outside are my hydro buckets, the spray paint represents the plants and buds growing over a half-circle screen. The circle in the middle surrounded by the triangle is my bulb with a modified reflector. I didn't feel like drawing in the fans, but they will be there.
> 
> ...


what about having a light both underneath that, and a couple above them?
that way the entire plant gets light, not just the underside.


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## WormSlayer (May 16, 2008)

Hernandez248 said:


> That's because the light is always above it. I've never done it this way, so I'm not sure how it will react.


I'm doing my first vertical grow, and as long as they have enough light, they still grow straight up rather than towards the bulbs.


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## ganjagoddess (May 20, 2008)

Wont work, they will turn upward...

the only way is to have them spinning in a cylinder like the bonsai that is pictured above...


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## iwannamarry-juana (Nov 3, 2008)

i think it will definitely work. in essence all he's doing is an inverted scrog. and like he said its more horizantal rather than completely upside down. i honeslty believe if you train these plants correctly,(extreme training, mind you) you can skew all the haters.


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## DaveTheNewbie (Nov 4, 2008)

i just wanna see the evidence instead of all the negativity


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## jashua (Nov 14, 2008)

This thread answered a question I posted elsewhere...

'I have heard stories about an INVERTED aeroponics system, where the root-ball is elevated and the plants grow downwards towards the floor. I have heard this lets the plant grow with gravity, not against it. Is there any truth in this? I have seen hanging soil planters like that for tomato vines. It sounds challenging with aero or hydroponic, like it would drip all over the place. Would the light source be pointing upwards? Anyone heard of this method?'

I have a friend who knows someone who claims to have seen it work. But that's a couple degrees seperate from eyewitness...
What happens to plants in zero gravity? does geotropism disappear?

Also Marijuana is not exactly a hanging vine, like a tomato plant. But, those Topsy-Turvy planters are only $10 it may be worth an attempt. I figured it was a way to keep animals off your tomatoes.


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## tryintogrow (Nov 15, 2008)

looks interesting but why stop there. put lights on top as well and just bud out both sides of the screen......would be kind of sick to have an arch made out of weed......


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## fdd2blk (Nov 15, 2008)

growth was much slower then the 2 plants of the same strain that were grown in regular pots. i'm thinking maybe veg them then flip them upside-down just as they go into flowering.


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## dazed76 (Nov 15, 2008)

thats becasue you light source was the sun facing the opposite way if you had a light on the ground facing up the plant wouldnt get stressed


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## fdd2blk (Nov 15, 2008)

dazed76 said:


> thats becasue you light source was the sun facing the opposite way if you had a light on the ground facing up the plant wouldnt get stressed



that's why the sun shone on them all day long. 

you do know that the leaves and branches move towards the light source? don't you?


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## dazed76 (Nov 15, 2008)

yes but if the light source was down and not up all the energy bending towards the light would have made them shhot towards the light source on the ground and the stems would b longer and thicker as they grow towards the light instead of a 180 then shoting towards the sun wasting energy, also absorbtion rates are supposed to b higher.


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## dazed76 (Nov 15, 2008)

the sun is doing all ur work there indoors is much more complicated btw outdoor weed can b good but not nearly as super kron in perfect environments.


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## fdd2blk (Nov 15, 2008)

dazed76 said:


> the sun is doing all ur work there indoors is much more complicated btw outdoor weed can b good but not nearly as super kron in perfect environments.



in your opinion. 


stop stalking me please, thanks.


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## tryintogrow (Nov 15, 2008)

lol looks like you got a special friend


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## dazed76 (Nov 17, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> in your opinion.
> 
> 
> stop stalking me please, thanks.


just returning the favor


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## seedtoweed420 (Dec 6, 2008)

never know till you try it. nothing wrong with experimenting.


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## TMB77 (Dec 6, 2008)

I find it really annoying how people post topics on here ASKING FOR OPINIONS or even experiences other people have had, and then when they are TOLD these experiences or opinions, they basically start arguing and saying they are right.

Botany texts arent that expensive people.


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## 7th1der (Dec 7, 2008)

Dude, I'm with you on this! My high ass was thinking this same shit but was afraid to make the post. lol Thanks and +rep just for asking. lol But I think you could attempt this by using a cfl's around and above the pot ata wide diameter. this method would cause the plants to stretch like fcuk and the stems would fall beside the pot as they began to not hold their weight. Or you could tie em down that way. Then as you reached your desired lenth switch to 12/12 with the lights at smaller diameter under the pot. Just a theory while high!

But what do I know, I'm only on my first grow. lol


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