# How To Make A Sativa Short



## Thedillestpickle (Dec 18, 2011)

Does anyone know what conditions are good for a plant to reduce stretching? Im trying to figure out how I can make a sativa as short as possible without physically touching the plant, no lst/fim/topping/supercropping

Just the perfect conditions for a plant to make it not want to stretch, Im thinking Lots of light, lower temperatures, a fan that pushes it lots. basically opposite of things that cause stretching, but are there any less obvious tricks? 

any ideas are welcome


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## devk (Dec 18, 2011)

Hello
SNAKE OILS <<<<<< I can Add that 
Some off them work but letting it grow natural will be the best thing you can do....


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## Gastanker (Dec 18, 2011)

Very very large amounts of wind would help a ton but you're sacrificing energy towards support versus other areas. Why not a very very simple LST? I LST just the very top cola and I always end up with 3' bushy plants versus 6+' spindly ones.

Days 20-25 I staked down just the main stem - for just around 5 days. Turned what would be 6+' sativa doms into shorter bushes. I should mention that side lighting helps them grow out versus just up. 

*Progression - day from seed entering soil













Day 1,5,9














Day 13,18,20














Day 22, 29/5, 32/7














36/11 - 2 plants removed, 39/15, 41/17




























48/22, 51/25, 58/32













62/36, ​ 

*


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## KushDog (Dec 18, 2011)

Metal hailid light close to plant. Hps will make a sativa wanna stretch. big fan blowing on her. You could probaly do something with the nuterents ex:more of 1 thing and less of enother to try to make it not wanna grow tall, but I dont know how you would do that


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## OutlawR6 (Dec 18, 2011)

Keep the lights close as you can without burning your girls. When mixing food go less N and more P-K. Use Bushmaster. Thats all I got, hope it helps.


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## Thedillestpickle (Dec 18, 2011)

good ideas guys, side lighting is an easy option, Ill probably use CFL's for that becuase id end up breaking the long tubes bumping around in my 4x6 room. I cant understand people growing purely from CFL but I see it as an excellent light supplement can hang a few in between the plantes even. 

Gastanker: did you only bend them between day 20-25 and thats it? I didnt realize that could have a lasting effect throughout the rest of growth! I will try this. I will probably try a combination of a couple techniques to really push them into bushing out. 

Basically I would like them to grow into the same profile as an Indica strain(short and bushy with thicker nuggs). The strain im working with is 90% sativa so its going to be tough. 


I will keep the lights close, I am vegging right now with MH, was going to switch to HPS for flower but perhaps not? Ive heard that the UV light can hurt the plant? what If I ran 100% MH and had ALOT of light happening in there would I be hurting them with the UV? also heard you get more THC with MH. this is a foggy topic, with different ideas floating around. efficiency of the lights is not an issue for me so if I can burn alot of MH and get bushier plants Ill do that. Or do they still need some of that warmer HPS light in flower? 


My nutrients are house and garden cocos A and B ratio is 6.5/3.4/9.1 ...seems a bit high in potassium? I wonder why, all I know is its formulated for a coco medium is that a low nitrogen ratio compared with other formulas? Ive heard people recommending ratios around 15-5-5 for vegg. 

I will look into getting bushmaster for flowering. I will find out what snake oil is supposed to do, maybe try it on one of the plants and see how it goes so I know for next time. 

Also I could just put them into flower earlier but Id rather max out the harvest from these plants and my space, while still having something that resembles a marijuana plant in the end. 

thanks for the help!


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## Gastanker (Dec 18, 2011)

One of my plants I staked down for ~10 days but the rest were just 5-7days. If you bend down the main top during their initial growth spurt going into flowering it triggers them to bush out - old horticulture technique. Once the side shoots overtake the main top by a little you can let it go and you have a fairly even canopy with a bunch of tops.


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## cannawizard (Dec 18, 2011)

**have lots of air circulation, SC 24/7 till your fingers hurt  high humidity 65/70% looks like it helps... LEDs also seem to have helped with the stretching on some of the SAT DOMs.. just all speculation.. but if your taking bets; feel free to bet against me  .. lolz

(o yea.. c02 lvls above 7k/8k looks like it could be also a factor to account for  )

merry Christmas~

--cheers


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## Gastanker (Dec 18, 2011)

Oh yeah - I use MH and HPS and I've noticed better results including closer node intervals using the MH for the first two weeks of flower (or however long the initial stretch lasts). After that I switch to HPS and the stretch doesn't seem to continue.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Dec 18, 2011)

top the hell out of them. or do some lst


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## cannawizard (Dec 18, 2011)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> top the hell out of them. or do some lst


*that chick in your ava M.J doesnt smile enuff.. too bad  she'd look better~


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## Da Almighty Jew (Dec 18, 2011)

cannawizard said:


> *that chick in your ava M.J doesnt smile enuff.. too bad  she'd look better~


I didn't notice that but your right. Her ass looks so delicious though.


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## cannawizard (Dec 18, 2011)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> I didn't notice that but your right. Her ass looks so delicious though.


**yes it does  but w/o a smile, that ass is useless.. lolz


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## Brick Top (Dec 18, 2011)

cannawizard said:


> **yes it does  but w/o a smile, that ass is useless.. lolz



What are you talking about? Her vertical smile looks pretty happy and friendly to me. Isn't that enough?


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## cannawizard (Dec 18, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> What are you talking about? Her vertical smile looks pretty happy and friendly to me. Isn't that enough?


*lmfao.... cheers


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## Thedillestpickle (Dec 19, 2011)

Gastanker said:


> Oh yeah - I use MH and HPS and I've noticed better results including closer node intervals using the MH for the first two weeks of flower (or however long the initial stretch lasts). After that I switch to HPS and the stretch doesn't seem to continue.


thats smart, it makes sense and I think Ill do that, Im gunna have some damn short sativas if I combine all these tricks! 

was that high co2 supposed to increase or reduce the stretch?? and 7k-8k sounds like super toxic levels from what ive been hearing, your not supposed to go above 2k? I was planning to use co2 though, can that increase stretch?


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## yesum (Dec 20, 2011)

I wanted my Panama Red from ACE to stretch more. I used LED with a lot of blue in it and supercropped them at first, but stopped after I saw hardly any stretch. So I would say use a MH or other very blue light for veg and flower.


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## FreedomSunshine (Dec 20, 2011)

I love t5's in veg to keep a plant short with close internodes but when I want to keep a plant from stretching too much in flower with out hormonally altering the plants via chemical or physical manipulation, I induce a period of 36 hours of complete darkness right before my 12/12 cycle.


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## Thedillestpickle (Dec 20, 2011)

I was planning to do a 36 hour of darkness already, just to kick em straight into flower when at the time I choose, I didnt know that had the benefit of reducing stretch. I Was just talking to a guy who has grown the same strain I have(I have Kali Mist its 90% sativa) and he said he LST'd his girls and they gave him nothing but popcorn buds. Something I probably have to watch out for when dealing with Kali mist regardless of if I top or LST or not... My intention is to make the plant concentrate all its bud into smaller area and make tighter fatter buds than having them stretched and all whispy bud. So I know I 
dont exactly have the right strain for this, but im not expecting perfection. Just minimizing popcorn bud
So I guess I should have mentioned at the start that any techniques Id be using should not have the side effect of causing bushy growth. I still want a dominant main cola. I just want it to be shorter and produce more per vertical inch. Is this even possible?

is early flower my only real choice from these options or were any of them likely to give me the result I just described? Thanks alot you guys, I know this is a pretty tough question.


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## laserbrn (Dec 20, 2011)

Sticking to MH will keep them shorter. It's funny that people ask if it's possible to flower with MH. That used to be the only option and people did it just fine. I'm sure that there are still hold outs that haven't switched to HPS.


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## Thedillestpickle (Dec 20, 2011)

Yes I noticed that in some of the older books I have, I also noticed that max THC content has gone from 5% to 20+% since the 80's, according to what I'm reading.


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## laserbrn (Dec 20, 2011)

That has nothing to do with growing under MH/HPS. That's genetic.


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## Thedillestpickle (Dec 20, 2011)

oh, I actually just started a thread on that topic in the newb central to find out why that is, I figured genetics is the answer, but that really is shocking. Im really glad I learned about the option for using MH during start of vegg to prevent stretch, sounds like a really usefull tool in what im trying to do, Too bad they dont make 600w MH or at least I havent heard of it, Im not gunna have enough light unless I buy another 400watt MH


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## laserbrn (Dec 20, 2011)

Yeah, that's always been the biggest deterrent for me. 600w is just so perfect isn't it?


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## CanBud (Dec 20, 2011)

Thedillestpickle Im quite new to the MJ growing game but Im also in the opposite boat, I want a little more height out of my plants. So if it helps I was running high 60's temps and high 60's humidity while direct fanning. Mine seem to wanna be around 15 inches and thats it, although they are filling out more after a temp increase. Ive grown lots of food but not much MJ but in in my experience let your natural gut feeling lead the way and results will show, input is always great from other people but sometimes you gotta go with what YOU think will be the answer......best way to learn! Cheers man!!


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## karr (Dec 20, 2011)

Umm...there are lots of 600watt metal halide bulbs. Or did I miss some sarcastic joke somewhere?


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## Thedillestpickle (Dec 21, 2011)

no sarcasm and Ill take a look now that you said that, I just remember seeing MH in small sizes and then 400 and then 1000... HPS made a recent innovation with the 600 and I dont think MH has done that yet, but I could be wrong(and hope I am)

ok just did a quick google and yes they are around... my jorge cervantes book fails me again... 

Thanks for pointing that out Karr I probablyl wouldnt have looked into that since I was already convinced they werent around.


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## karr (Dec 21, 2011)

No worries. It's rumored that they will be making a pubicly available 600w CMH sometime too, so that's cool, although i have a digi ballast so no go.


On topic, really not a lot you can do without touching the plant but, frankly, I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to touch the plant. A simple bending of the top towards the bottom can increase yield quite a lot situationally.


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## Thedillestpickle (Dec 21, 2011)

I actually plan on topping once above the second node, and that should give me a shorter plant as is, I guess the reason is I dont want to trigger the plant to bush too much as Its going to be 90% sativa strain(kali mist) and this strain has light airy buds usually and i dont want to to have popcorn buds growing on a shrub. I also dont want to have lolipop or buds that reach up to the bulbs. Id like to have some impressive colas on my plants. Ive been looking at hobbes' thread in the strain reviews on his grows with Kali mist. Its extremely impressive, I wish he was around still so I could get some advice on nutes from him as he seemed to have his plants growing really nice, he was getting 2 gpw with his setup(with a light over) Im not looking for GPW, more "grams per plant" I have a room 6x4x6 and I am thinking of running 2 600's and a 400 if I can manage the temps with cool-tubes. its concrete on two walls and 10-13 degrees celcius through the winter down in the basement so I think I might be able to pull it off. right now Im burning almost that just on the baseboards to keep it warm so I might as well be doing it with light. With what hobbes has got going on I might just do the LST like you see with his, except given that I have more room and only 5 plants(assuming 50% turn out female) than I can probably use something a bit wider than his tomato cage setup, so thatll let me vegg for longer and have them wrap around a larger diameter, heres his thread so youll know what I mean https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/244207-kali-mist-serious-seeds-strain.html . until now I had been thinking of doing a setup like this https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=221265&page=10 Now Im not sure what I should do, I do have a 6 foot ceiling and it may be possible to mount my lights even higher if I can get a hood with a narrow reflector as that is only the height to the ceiling joists and there is another foot to the top of those that I can squeeze things like ballasts and fans and possible the hoods into . 
great thread btw and the nutes used here are something worth looking into, apparently they will be available in January. 

still got quite a bit of veg time to decide which way Ill make this spin, so any advice will be given consideration. Pictures are being taken along the way so hopefully the results will be worthy of a grow journal


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## CEAhaze (Dec 21, 2011)

Thedillestpickle said:


> Does anyone know what conditions are good for a plant to reduce stretching? Im trying to figure out how I can make a sativa as short as possible without physically touching the plant, no lst/fim/topping/supercropping
> 
> Just the perfect conditions for a plant to make it not want to stretch, Im thinking Lots of light, lower temperatures, a fan that pushes it lots. basically opposite of things that cause stretching, but are there any less obvious tricks?
> 
> any ideas are welcome


You are better off with indica or hybrid with dominant indica if you're worried about stretching. Plants stretch if there is not enough light, they may also do this if they have too much light or heat because the light is too close. Or it may be just genetics. Satiivas are meant to be big to be mature for better yield and high effect. Note that they have 11-12 week flowering time. Most of my sativas/hybrid w/sativa dominant end up 6ft and up.


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## OGEvilgenius (Dec 21, 2011)

laserbrn said:


> That has nothing to do with growing under MH/HPS. That's genetic.


THC levels are definitely effected by the spectrum of light. MH tends to produce more potent buds. HPS tends to produce bigger buds.


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## laserbrn (Dec 21, 2011)

OGEvilgenius said:


> THC levels are definitely effected by the spectrum of light. MH tends to produce more potent buds. HPS tends to produce bigger buds.



While that's true, it's not the reason that years ago people had bud that was 5% THC and now it's often closer to 20%. That does make a difference, but in general, it's the genetics that have gotten better. You can still dig a hole in the summer and plop a plant in the ground and it'll come out better today than it did 30 years ago.


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## karr (Dec 21, 2011)

I feel like the testing methods have changed as there are some heirloom strains out there that date back to the 70s that pack quite the punch..

To accomplish your goal I have two ideas. 

Firstly top the plant like planned and once tops are developed go ahead and pinch the stems between your fingers. This will slow upward growth, and make the plant bush out a bit. So to combat this, about a week before flower just prune off all the lower buds that you don't want, you can prune it down quite a bit, this will cause the tops you have to get all the plants effort and boom, packed buds. 


In that area i Would consider vert lighting for sure.

Second ideas to research the alternative light schedules to see if there is something that helps on sativas. If you could find out what spectrum of light produces the hormone that identifies length of night you could add a light that is not in that spectrum at night to combat stretching for light.

Haha just ideas


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## Thedillestpickle (Dec 21, 2011)

Hey thanks Karr sounds like some pretty solid advice, Im wondering if you can show me a link to a 600w metal halide bulb. From what I can tell you can only get 600w HPS conversion. Its an HPS but gives off more of the blue spectrum. Not ideal for me because the balanced spectrum means stretching my plants in first few weeks of flower. I had a talk with the guy at my hydro store and he was telling me there are no true 600w MH bulbs, so unless you can show me otherwise... 

kindof unfortunate, an MH/HPS ballast and HPS and true MH bulbs would be awesome


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## Thedillestpickle (Dec 21, 2011)

Gastanker said:


> Oh yeah - I use MH and HPS and I've noticed better results including closer node intervals using the MH for the first two weeks of flower (or however long the initial stretch lasts). After that I switch to HPS and the stretch doesn't seem to continue.



what Kelvin rating should I shoot for with the MH? I was thinking 7000k but there is also the option of 10,000k bulbs... do you know which would be ideal?


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