# VHO, very high output from advanced nutrients



## krippo (Sep 29, 2008)

i have used it before on an outdoor grow. just wondering if any one on here knows of it or uses it.


----------



## krippo (Sep 30, 2008)

When you have valuable female motherplant genetics that are worth their weight in gold, you want to clone them over and over so you can keep the gold mine open a long time. 
 But cloning success depends on the vitality of your motherplant. It also depends on how you treat your clone source material before and after the cut, and on whether you feed Advanced Nutrients Very High Output (VHO) to your clones and motherplants. 
*Listen to what our customers are saying about VHO.*​
Very High Output is the only formula that makes motherplants and clones work together for guaranteed cloning success. Making clones that survive cloning, grow to adulthood and give you predictably profitable hydroponics harvests takes more than just cutting and rooting. 
VERY HIGH
OUTPUT
*·* Increases Clone survival rate

*·* Faster Motherplant Recovery

*·* Produces Stems Perfect For Cloning

Before you clone, you have to prime your motherplants so they give you the most and best cloning material. Give your motherplants VHO so that cuttings contain root-stimulating, stress-resistant elements that ensure cloning success.


----------



## earlymorninstonepeomp (Sep 30, 2008)

krippo said:


> When you have valuable female motherplant genetics that are worth their weight in gold, you want to clone them over and over so you can keep the gold mine open a long time.
> But cloning success depends on the vitality of your motherplant. It also depends on how you treat your clone source material before and after the cut, and on whether you feed Advanced Nutrients Very High Output (VHO) to your clones and motherplants.
> *Listen to what our customers are saying about VHO.*​
> Very High Output is the only formula that makes motherplants and clones work together for guaranteed cloning success. Making clones that survive cloning, grow to adulthood and give you predictably profitable hydroponics harvests takes more than just cutting and rooting.
> ...



Gimme a break.....anyone who uses common sense and the correct procedures is gonna clone with a 9/10 success rate WITHOUT an overpriced Advanced Nute product. This is my problem with these companies, they make these bullshit claims of "perfect stems for cloning" and shit like that. Its a MIRACLE PRODUCT ...yeaaaah right......Pleeeeeeease gimme one, just one ingredient in this stuff that is unique and merits the 40-50 bucks you'll pay for it. Only thing "VHO" is the bullshit on the label. Amazing that some people actually believe this shit. I think its hydro store owners that post this trash. Buuuuut......thats just my opinion.


----------



## Londoner (Sep 30, 2008)

earlymorninstonepeomp said:


> Gimme a break.....anyone who uses common sense and the correct procedures is gonna clone with a 9/10 success rate WITHOUT an overpriced Advanced Nute product. This is my problem with these companies, they make these bullshit claims of "perfect stems for cloning" and shit like that. Its a MIRACLE PRODUCT ...yeaaaah right......Pleeeeeeease gimme one, just one ingredient in this stuff that is unique and merits the 40-50 bucks you'll pay for it. Only thing "VHO" is the bullshit on the label. Amazing that some people actually believe this shit.


............ AN is BS +rep


----------



## HippieMan (Sep 30, 2008)

i used well like i dont remember... like water and nothing basically in one grow, everyone said it was ok weed like regs

i used an 1 grow with the same strain and everyone said it blew their minds
but i didnt really get any bigger of a yield, like 3/4 quart jar off of the water only compared to 2 quart jars AN iunno is that a big increase, not really compared to the price of the nutrients

i did burn the plant 3 weeks before the big boom though, so thats prob why it was so low ummm i dont even know where i am i am like rambling


----------



## HippieMan (Sep 30, 2008)

oh ya VHO cost like 18 dollars so where you gettin this 40 50 dollar exaggeration, come on lol where is the florabloom VHO equilverent oh ya right there isnt one

i guess its sorta for the larger grows, like it kinda says on the bottle (i got it)

these are the instructions:

USE VHO AS FOLIAR ONLY!!!!!

mix vho to 300 PPM above your normal water; 
so if your normal water is 200, than you want your PPM to be 500 for the first 4 days.

keep raising, every 4 days, the ppm of vho by 300 above your normal water
300 PPM above 4 days, 600 PPM above 8 days, 900 PPM above... so on until you get to 1200 PPM

VHO stiffens stems, increases internode length, and produces more shoots, which could be useful in a heavy indica strain where internode is clustered, or if you wanted spacerier branches for some reason w/e its got its uses.

the NPK is 5-0-2


----------



## krippo (Sep 30, 2008)

thanks man, people can have their own oppinions on VHO but i was told to get it for my outdoor grow last summer by a way older grower who has been growing for years. he told me it was like crack for plants. lol but anyays i got it and used it with pretty damn good results, My plants got killed by rats but they were exploding while i was useing the VHO. I thought it was good stuff.


----------



## aeroman (Oct 3, 2008)

sum pepul always bag on 1 nute company or another and advanced nutrients is always a popular target for hatin

i used VHO and it worked reel gud 4 me but i like to rotate my clones alot so i do ok with base nutes only so it depends on what u wanna do

i dont clone a plant all teh time so it is ok if it takes awhile to recover and such but VHO def will crank them up and if u wanna really veg a plant fast it can do that 4 u like nothin else

up 2 u

its gud stuff 2 try and see how u like it


----------



## NewGrowth (Oct 3, 2008)

I am SOOO tired of Advanced Nutrients marketing


----------



## 415medical (Oct 4, 2008)

I like them. I've used them before. You can see a difference overnight. Just spray it everday till you hit 1200ppm


----------



## dazed76 (Oct 5, 2008)

ill tell guys a litle story about advanced nutrients

they used to run thousands of pounds into the us with a helicopter till the dea busted them with bad warrants, they sued the us government and won. Thus the creation of advanced nutrients,btw all their shit is tested on marijuana gardens across bc canada


----------



## NewGrowth (Oct 5, 2008)

dazed76 said:


> ill tell guys a litle story about advanced nutrients
> 
> they used to run thousands of pounds into the us with a helicopter till the dea busted them with bad warrants, they sued the us government and won. Thus the creation of advanced nutrients,btw all their shit is tested on marijuana gardens across bc canada


Do you have a reliable source for that info?


----------



## specialkayme (Oct 7, 2008)

dazed76 said:


> ill tell guys a litle story about advanced nutrients
> 
> they used to run thousands of pounds into the us with a helicopter till the dea busted them with bad warrants, they sued the us government and won. Thus the creation of advanced nutrients,btw all their shit is tested on marijuana gardens across bc canada


I would love to hear where you got that from.

Anyway, as has been already stated, throwing shit on one nute company or another is fairly common on threads like this. For some reason AN is more often then not the one taking the fist in the face. This is usually due to it's price.

Personally, I have used GH's 3 part nute. It did mediocre results. So I started looking into other nute companies, and AN's Sensi two part solution was about the same price as GH's, so I tried it, and was super impressed. So I went out and got their bud blood, big bud, and overdrive. I havn't tried them yet, but can't wait.

I did go to the store the other day and asked the guy about jumpstart, their clone booster, and they were totally against it. They talked me into getting Root Juice instead. Probably because it was 2.5x the price. But we'll see how it works.

The bad thing about AN, for one is their price, and for two is all of their add ons. If you go to their nutrient calculator, they have like 14 different additives, and they claim everyone is just as important as the last. I find that hard to believe. The good thing is all of their stuff has a guarantee on it. If you don't like it, just bring it back to where you bought it from for a full refund. You really can't go wrong with that guarantee.


----------



## NewGrowth (Oct 7, 2008)

I use Ionic two part nutes and H202. I have tried plenty of additives and have not been impressed. A lot of my grower buddies have sworn by advanced nutes and all these silly additives. But they can not deny how simple and yet effective my nutrient package is, with a cleaner reservoir and at half the price.  There is so much marketing out there that it gets hard to sort out the BS.


----------



## Londoner (Oct 8, 2008)

To grow good big buds, you need a few very simple basic things.

1. The correct photoperiod (the right amount of light hours)

2. Proper lighting

3. A good environment in terms of temp and humidity and fresh air.

4. A good well suited growing medium to you and your plants needs.

5. The right amount of base ferts N P K for the plants needs at any given stage of the plants life.

6. The right ratio of secondary and trace nutrients.

Thats it! 

There is no need for all these stupid additives, huge buds have been grown indoors for decades, long before this crazy idea that wasting loads of money and throwing everything but the kitchen sink at your plants not to mention making the fatcats wallets much heavier will give you better yields and or healthier plants, its just rediculous!

I too have used all sorts of additives and iv yet to find one that actually does what it says it does, i get good buds with two bottles, grow and bloom, and i feel like a mug for spending money on the other shit.

But carry on, spend your hard earned money on waste and useless by-products of the sugar refining and chemical industry, because thats all these products are, shit that nobody else wants!

Maybe AN and other over-priced and over-rated products may be good if you dont understand the above requirements that your plants need or you dont have the experience or just the plain old common sense to get this right but to an experienced and established grower theyre just BULLSHIT, end of.

And remember, all this shit you throw at your plants you are smoking at the end of the day in the final product!  And you wanna pay through your teeth for this privaledge?? lmfao


----------



## specialkayme (Oct 8, 2008)

Londoner said:


> To grow good big buds, you need a few very simple basic things.
> 
> 1. The correct photoperiod (the right amount of light hours)
> 
> ...


You say you have used all sorts of additives before. What kinds? Have you ever used VHO? or any of AN products? If so, which ones? You also say you only use two nutes, which ones?

The reason why I'm asking, is alot of people say 'AN is shit, don't waste your money' bla bla bla .... but have never actually tried it. If you have and havn't noticed a difference that is one thing, but if you have tried Fox Farm's bloom enhancers and didn't notice a difference, then say so and don't shit on AN.

And yeah, plenty of people have grown great buds before all of these fancy additives. That's for sure, but then again there were times that people were cured from the flu with leaches. Doesn't mean that was the actual reason why.


----------



## Londoner (Oct 8, 2008)

specialkayme said:


> You say you have used all sorts of additives before. What kinds? Have you ever used VHO? or any of AN products? If so, which ones? You also say you only use two nutes, which ones?
> 
> The reason why I'm asking, is alot of people say 'AN is shit, don't waste your money' bla bla bla .... but have never actually tried it. If you have and havn't noticed a difference that is one thing, but if you have tried Fox Farm's bloom enhancers and didn't notice a difference, then say so and don't shit on AN.
> 
> And yeah, plenty of people have grown great buds before all of these fancy additives. That's for sure, but then again there were times that people were cured from the flu with leaches. Doesn't mean that was the actual reason why.


  Please.


----------



## specialkayme (Oct 8, 2008)

Londoner said:


> Please.


Please what? How about an actual contribution?

I'm not trying to insult you, just asking what your experience is and what you have used. I don't think that's too much to ask.


----------



## Londoner (Oct 8, 2008)

My contribution.



Londoner said:


> To grow good big buds, you need a few very simple basic things.
> 
> 1. The correct photoperiod (the right amount of light hours)
> 
> ...


----------



## specialkayme (Oct 8, 2008)

Londoner said:


> My contribution.


What a cop out. Answer the questions or just leave it be.


----------



## aeroman (Oct 8, 2008)

no kidding thats weak

"if u cant grow monster bud w/o supplies then ur just stupid"
easy 2 say

yup yup every but u is a chump ur so frikkin brilliant and ur stickin it 2 teh man and so on
must b nice 2 b u

do u poop rainbow sherbert?


----------



## NewGrowth (Oct 8, 2008)

aeroman said:


> no kidding thats weak
> 
> "if u cant grow monster bud w/o supplies then ur just stupid"
> easy 2 say
> ...


Are you talking in code? I'm so confused


----------



## krippo (Oct 8, 2008)

Que? thats spanish for what?


----------



## nathenking (Oct 10, 2008)

I run AN and dont have any problems at all. If you have issues with them then thats your issue. But for me they have worked tremendously. I run connissour, overdrive, bigbud, voodoo juice, carboload, sensizyme and B52. I would like to see a comparison of this nute schedule to just a normal N-p-k nutrient schedule ran in the same environment. I would bet my life that the yield on the AN schedule would be better than just the N=P=K schedule. my 2 cents


----------



## specialkayme (Oct 10, 2008)

hey nathenking. I'm wondering what your take is on voodoo juice in particular. It's rather costly. I'd like to try it, but I'm just not sure yet.


----------



## 415medical (Oct 10, 2008)

nathenking said:


> I run AN and dont have any problems at all. If you have issues with them then thats your issue. But for me they have worked tremendously. I run connissour, overdrive, bigbud, voodoo juice, carboload, sensizyme and B52. I would like to see a comparison of this nute schedule to just a normal N-p-k nutrient schedule ran in the same environment. I would bet my life that the yield on the AN schedule would be better than just the N=P=K schedule. my 2 cents


 
I've used Bud Blood, Big Bud, Gravity, and General Hydrophonics 3 part. I'm waiting on the results now. Just chopped them.. I did see a big differnence with and without the Big Bud.


----------



## unity (Oct 11, 2008)

NewGrowth said:


> I use Ionic two part nutes and H202. I have tried plenty of additives and have not been impressed. A lot of my grower buddies have sworn by advanced nutes and all these silly additives. But they can not deny how simple and yet effective my nutrient package is, with a cleaner reservoir and at half the price.  There is so much marketing out there that it gets hard to sort out the BS.


Hi New Growth, do you mind letting me know how much H202 you use? 
I use 1.7ml per litter (30% food grade) every 3-4 days. I have 2 ak47's that have a hard time holding on to their fan leafs, I was wondering if the h2o2 could have anything to do with it, maybe it's too hot?

Unity


----------



## NewGrowth (Oct 12, 2008)

unity said:


> Hi New Growth, do you mind letting me know how much H202 you use?
> I use 1.7ml per litter (30% food grade) every 3-4 days. I have 2 ak47's that have a hard time holding on to their fan leafs, I was wondering if the h2o2 could have anything to do with it, maybe it's too hot?
> 
> Unity


Yeah I use the same amount 35% @ 1.7ml/L. I have found Ak-47 to be a very sensitive plant and it doe snot tolerate anything less than optimum conditions. It could be heat, nutrient strength, or god knows . . . what a pain in the ass that grow was! We did White Widow and AK-47 the widow was pretty tolerant but everytime we turned around I felt like the Ak had another "issue. It turned out well in the end though.


----------



## unity (Oct 12, 2008)

NewGrowth said:


> Yeah I use the same amount 35% @ 1.7ml/L. I have found Ak-47 to be a very sensitive plant and it doe snot tolerate anything less than optimum conditions. It could be heat, nutrient strength, or god knows . . . what a pain in the ass that grow was! We did White Widow and AK-47 the widow was pretty tolerant but everytime we turned around I felt like the Ak had another "issue. It turned out well in the end though.


Hey thanks mate! The only good thing coming from my current grow is that in a feeble attempt to solve my ak problem I have learned to grow with canna substra, cal mag, pk13/14 and h202 only (thanks to Al). 
No more 'magic sauces' for me,lol!
Thanks for the info NG!


Unity


----------



## aeroman (Oct 17, 2008)

nathenking said:


> I would bet my life that the yield on the AN schedule would be better than just the N=P=K schedule. my 2 cents


u sed it man
its just 2 easy 2 get awesome results with teh Advanced Nutrients stuff



specialkayme said:


> hey nathenking. I'm wondering what your take is on voodoo juice in particular. It's rather costly. I'd like to try it, but I'm just not sure yet.


FWIW i like it alot

remember it might cost a bit but u dont use it everytime
like every 3 or 4 res changes is good
i herd 1 dude actually split his bucket he grew so many roots 1 time



415medical said:


> I did see a big differnence with and without the Big Bud.


thats why i always tell people 2 get that
nothin even comes clsoe


----------



## specialkayme (Oct 17, 2008)

the guy at my shop said use Root Juice. He claims hands down, Root Juice is so much better than Voodoo juice. Any opinions on this?


----------



## drogrower (Oct 17, 2008)

advanced doesnt lie. they say its good its probably good. and all you can do is try it...then lend an opinion. otherwise your opinion, as Harry G. Frankfurt would say, is bullshit.


----------



## Londoner (Oct 17, 2008)

A few of my plants just 4 wks into 12/12 on nothing but bio bizz grow and bloom base ferts, £10.00 sterling per 1ltr bottle.


Why would i want to go and blow my bank balance on AN shit?


----------



## dannyking (Oct 20, 2008)

ive just started on an AN schedule, im just using the sensi grow at the moment and even with just the base nutrients i am delighted with the results. My plants are 4 weeks in veg as of tomorrow and they are about a foot tall and very bushy and healthy looking. I cant wait to start flowering and use sensi bloom, big bud and possibly another addative.
I have used bio bizz's products in the past but i was a bit dissapointed with the results.
In my opinion AN is the way to go, Its not that expensive considering the final product.


----------



## Londoner (Oct 20, 2008)

dannyking said:


> ive just started on an AN schedule, im just using the sensi grow at the moment and even with just the base nutrients i am delighted with the results. My plants are 4 weeks in veg as of tomorrow and they are about a foot tall and very bushy and healthy looking. I cant wait to start flowering and use sensi bloom, big bud and possibly another addative.
> I have used bio bizz's products in the past but i was a bit dissapointed with the results.
> In my opinion AN is the way to go, Its not that expensive considering the final product.


Are you in hydro? If you had dissapointing results with bio bizz you must have been doing something wrong.

If your in compost/soil, why was you feeding in veg???? That would give you poor results.

Do my above pics look dissapointing for just 4wks of 12/12?


----------



## flipsidesw (Oct 21, 2008)

My .02......... The more aggressive the advertising the more bullshit they are trying to hide.

Ive never tried An stuff and prolly never will. 

Pot grows very vigoursously with only npk. 

Ive always felt AN users were also members of the Hair club for men!!

Isnt big bud just a kool bloom knock off? Or are they completely diff?


----------



## dannyking (Oct 21, 2008)

Londoner said:


> Are you in hydro? If you had dissapointing results with bio bizz you must have been doing something wrong.
> 
> If your in compost/soil, why was you feeding in veg???? That would give you poor results.
> 
> Do my above pics look dissapointing for just 4wks of 12/12?


Oh no I'm not putting bio bizz down, im sure they have great potential, a lot of it was probably my lack of experience at the time, i just expected more.

Your buds dont look dissapointing at all either, im simply stating that the AN nutes do absolute wonders for me and I will never look back, Perhaps when I have more space and more grows under my belt Ill be able to get such good results from nutes like bio bizz. but for now AN are giving me those results.


----------



## specialkayme (Oct 21, 2008)

dannyking said:


> ive just started on an AN schedule, im just using the sensi grow at the moment and even with just the base nutrients i am delighted with the results. My plants are 4 weeks in veg as of tomorrow and they are about a foot tall and very bushy and healthy looking. I cant wait to start flowering and use sensi bloom, big bud and possibly another addative.
> I have used bio bizz's products in the past but i was a bit dissapointed with the results.
> In my opinion AN is the way to go, Its not that expensive considering the final product.


I totally agree. I used GH's 3 part base nutes for starters, and was totally disappointed. I was wondering how everyone could say that hydro grew faster, my plants grew slow, looked weak, and shitty. Could be my growing though, not saying it was the nutes. But then I switched to AN's Sensi 2 part and it was like night and day.

I've never used bio bizz's though. The price was about the same, so I figured i'd give AN a shot, and I too will never look back. The performance guarantee helped in my decision as well.



Londoner said:


> Are you in hydro? If you had dissapointing results with bio bizz you must have been doing something wrong.
> 
> If your in compost/soil, why was you feeding in veg???? That would give you poor results.
> 
> Do my above pics look dissapointing for just 4wks of 12/12?


Not to put you down or anything Londoner, but just because you had amazing results with one product doesn't mean that everyone will. Likewise, if I have amazing results with the AN line doesn't mean that everyone else will either. But to tell dannyking he must have been doing something wrong if he didn't get amazing results with bio bizz is just plain arrogant. There are a million different factors that could involve bad results from that product. And there are a million different factors that could influence your grow and how good it is, other than the nutes.

Not to say you didn't grow great bud, that's not what I'm trying to say. Just be easy on putting someone else's grow down. Let him get results the way he wants. Believe it or not, your nutes weren't given to you by god himself, and neither was mine.


----------



## Londoner (Oct 21, 2008)

specialkayme said:


> I totally agree. I used GH's 3 part base nutes for starters, and was totally disappointed. I was wondering how everyone could say that hydro grew faster, my plants grew slow, looked weak, and shitty. Could be my growing though, not saying it was the nutes. But then I switched to AN's Sensi 2 part and it was like night and day.
> 
> I've never used bio bizz's though. The price was about the same, so I figured i'd give AN a shot, and I too will never look back. The performance guarantee helped in my decision as well.
> 
> ...


Well, GH is well known over here to be shit, and *dont* call me arrogant, i havnt flung any insults at you have i??

And if you did your homework youd have realised this before you wasted your money on it.

I wasnt putting Dannys grows down in any way shape or form mate, i havnt seen any of Dannys grow so im not in a position to, virtually every organic grower over here uses bio bizz ferts, just grow and bloom, with good results, its extremely easy to use, and very forgiving, very hard to go wrong with it, so thats why i was saying that if he didnt get good results there must have been something wrong, its not some so called spectacular over hyped over priced product like AN's line of mickey mouse crap, its just a good all round organic fert with proven results for decades, and CHEAP, dunno where you got the idea from that its the same price as AN??? 

I know bio bizz isnt distributed as widely in the US like it is in europe, maybe thats why its more expensive there, i dunno?

Like iv said before, if AN dropped their prices dramatically, and got some organic certification, for which bio bizz carries several, then i might someday consider switching.

But im sorry, im *still* yet to see any results from AN's line that i cant replicate or beat with my two cheap bottles of tried tested and proven basic ferts.

Besides growing big good buds is more about a good growing environment than the food you feed, you give the plant the basics of what it needs in terms of feed plus the ideal growing environment and itl reward you greatly, regardless of what brand you feed it.

One day il do a side by side grow, 20 clones from the same plant, 10 on bio bizz, 10 on the full range of AN shite, and blow the AN crap out of the water, youl see, il expose it for the over priced over marketed over hyped bollox that it really is, end of.


----------



## specialkayme (Oct 21, 2008)

Londoner said:


> Well, GH is well known over here to be shit, and *dont* call me arrogant, i havnt flung any insults at you have i??
> 
> And if you did your homework youd have realised this before you wasted your money on it.


First, I know GH is crap, I knew it when I went and bought it, but cheap is cheap.

Second, Chill bro. I mean't no offense, and I did not intend to call you arrogant, just that your post, or more specifically, your comment was an arrogant one. If I offended you, I'm sorry, wasn't my intention. 

And you havn't started insulting _me yet, but I don't have a problem talking to you about something you said before you start insulting me.



Londoner said:



I wasnt putting Dannys grows down in any way shape or form mate, i havnt seen any of Dannys grow so im not in a position to, virtually every organic grower over here uses bio bizz ferts, just grow and bloom, with good results, its extremely easy to use, and very forgiving, very hard to go wrong with it, so thats why i was saying that if he didnt get good results there must have been something wrong, its not some so called spectacular over hyped over priced product like AN's line of mickey mouse crap, its just a good all round organic fert with proven results for decades, and CHEAP, dunno where you got the idea from that its the same price as AN??? 

I know bio bizz isnt distributed as widely in the US like it is in europe, maybe thats why its more expensive there, i dunno?

Click to expand...

Hydroempire, Organic Hydroponic Nutrients, Indoor Grow Lights and Supplies - Sensi-Grow (Part A&B) - Liter - $29.95 $30, Hydroempire, Organic Hydroponic Nutrients, Indoor Grow Lights and Supplies - BIOBIZZ GROW ? Liquid Fertilizer - Gallon - $44.95 $44. And yes, I realize it is a Liter vs. a Gallon. I weighed that into comparison, but $30 out of my pocket is cheaper than $44 out of my pocket, and I figured if I paid $30 and didn't like it, I'd only be out 30 and be over with the nutes soon enough, if I paid $44 and didn't like it, I would be out an extra 14 and have to deal with the ferts I didn't like for much longer. That's why I went with AN. I know liter for liter Bio Biz is cheaper, but if I found it sold in liters I probably would have went with Bio Biz first.



Londoner said:



Like iv said before, if AN dropped their prices dramatically, and got some organic certification, for which bio bizz carries several, then i might someday consider switching.

But im sorry, im *still* yet to see any results from AN's line that i cant replicate or beat with my two cheap bottles of tried tested and proven basic ferts.

Besides growing big good buds is more about a good growing environment than the food you feed, you give the plant the basics of what it needs in terms of feed plus the ideal growing environment and itl reward you greatly, regardless of what brand you feed it.

Click to expand...

AN is way over priced, I'll give you that, and they way over hipe their shit, a known fact. This, in combonation with the fact that they have like 50 damn additives does piss me off, but their basic nute seems to work well for me, that's all I'm saying.

But if it is much more about a good growing environment than it is about what you fed them, as long as you give them the ideal growing environment and the basic npk that they need, then why can't you do anything with GH's 3 part?

The environment does a lot, probably way more than anything else, but nutes really do matter in my opinion. And you get what you pay for, generally speaking.



Londoner said:



One day il do a side by side grow, 20 clones from the same plant, 10 on bio bizz, 10 on the full range of AN shite, and blow the AN crap out of the water, youl see, il expose it for the over priced over marketed over hyped bollox that it really is, end of.

Click to expand...

I would *love* to see that. Seriously. You do a side by side, unbiased experiment, from clone, in the same environment, and if you can change my mind I'll switch. I'm not preaching the gospel of AN, I have just seen it work.

I'll give you mad props if you do it though. All those additives are expensive as shit! I stick with the sensi, big bud, overdrive, and that's too costly for me. I can't even think about buying voodoo, pirana, tarantula, b52, bla, bla, bla._


----------



## drifter1978 (Oct 21, 2008)

hello people i do not use AN. i use canadian express with a super flowering additive as well called head master and get great results.i did use some stuff called ozi-magic and ozi tonic for a while which was great to but not as good as head master although it is expensive it does pay for itself and they buds are just amazing in size and taste just my 2 cents worth


----------



## Londoner (Oct 21, 2008)

Its cool man, its a debate at the end of the day, and debating is good for everyone, newbies and exp growers alike, even if they do get a bit heated.

Yea i will do that grow mate, although il need to take out a second mortgage to pay for the AN range , and il use the entire range as they reccomend.

Quite looking forward to it now!




I mean't no offense, and I did not intend to call you arrogant, just that your post, or more specifically, your comment was an arrogant one. If I offended you, I'm sorry, wasn't my intention.


----------



## drifter1978 (Oct 21, 2008)

Confucious say - He who goes to bed with itchy arse wakes up with smelly finger

thats funny-Confucious say "man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day"


----------



## Londoner (Oct 21, 2008)

drifter1978 said:


> Confucious say "man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day"


 ya know what, i was gonna use that one next mate lmao


----------



## Londoner (Oct 21, 2008)

Confucius say - Man with one chopstick goes hungry.

Confucius say - Man who farts in church, sits in his own pew!

Confucius say - Man who run in front of car get tired.

Confucius say - Man who run behind car get exhausted.

Confucius say - Man who fishes in other mans well, catches crabs.

Confucius say - Too damn much.


----------



## drifter1978 (Oct 22, 2008)

hey guys just started a journel check it out tell me what you think

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/122840-multi-strain-grow-journal.html


----------



## aeroman (Oct 23, 2008)

specialkayme said:


> I would *love* to see that. Seriously. You do a side by side, unbiased experiment, from clone, in the same environment, and if you can change my mind I'll switch. I'm not preaching the gospel of AN, I have just seen it work.
> 
> I'll give you mad props if you do it though. All those additives are expensive as shit! I stick with the sensi, big bud, overdrive, and that's too costly for me. I can't even think about buying voodoo, pirana, tarantula, b52, bla, bla, bla.


only problem is that side by side wuld prove nuthin

if u want a result and u get it u cant say u proved somthin becuz u might have tipped teh results without meaning 2

scientist has 2 b impartial
u gotta b open 2 all results or u wont b fair

and Advanced Nutrients aint taht expensive round here i dunno what the fuss is


----------



## krippo (Nov 11, 2008)

this thread was originally on advanced nutes VHO, the folliar spray. i want to see a side by side with vho and one without


----------



## specialkayme (Nov 11, 2008)

krippo said:


> i want to see a side by side with vho and one without


So get started.


----------



## Londoner (Nov 12, 2008)

aeroman said:


> *only problem is that side by side wuld prove nuthin*
> 
> if u want a result and u get it *u cant say u proved somthin becuz u might have tipped teh results without meaning 2*
> 
> ...


How would it not prove nothing?? 20 clones, grown in the same environment, from the same mother, the same age, under the same light, 10 fed on the whole AN range, 10 fed on my usual two bottles??? 

It would prove alot in my opinion, if i get near enough the same results from both feeds then AN isnt worth the money they charge, if i get spectacular results from the AN line up, and all the shit they say it will do for your plants then i might even switch to AN myself, but this i doubt very much, if i get much better results from my usual two bottles of certified organic ferts, then it just proves that AN is BS?

And where is round here to you?? For me to switch to the whole AN range itd cost me about £250 every couple of harvests, as opposed to £20 every couple of harvests, in comparison it seems rather expensive to me?


----------



## potpimp (Nov 12, 2008)

I would not doubt that AN got started with lawsuit money but if they were smuggling *thousands* of pounds... holy shit; that's a LOT of loonies baby! Anyway... it's good stuff; I have almost everything they sell but I think they are really big on marketing. I don't doubt their sincerity or the quality of the product but, for me, I just want big fat sweet tasting buds that don't require $100 per plant in nutes. I'm doing my next grow with Ionic 2 part.


----------



## krippo (Nov 12, 2008)

specialkayme said:


> So get started.


haha i would but i gotta get outta my living arrangements with this bogart roomate of mine.

when im outta here and getting some steady income from my job i think i might just try it


----------



## aeroman (Nov 20, 2008)

Londoner said:


> How would it not prove nothing??


bcuz if u want the expiriment 2 come out 1 way u arent objective

ask any scientist
u know that whole "double blind" expiriment thing they do where the test subjects and the test givers dont know who got the new drug and who got the fake drug? cause if the test givers know which is which they might accidentally mess up teh results

same kinda thing
u want ur favorite 2 be teh best and ur more familier with it so u will b more likely 2 get the results u want no matter how fair u try 2 b.




Londoner said:


> And where is round here to you?? For me to switch to the whole AN range itd cost me about £250 every couple of harvests, as opposed to £20 every couple of harvests, in comparison it seems rather expensive to me?


lol let me just mail in my address 2 teh cops

just say they aint gotta put stuff on a boat to get it 2 me, k?

i dunno conversion or nuthin but 4 my stoner math i get more green at teh end of a grow than it costs extra 4 the advanced nutrients
4 me it costs more not 2 use AN


----------



## Jonus (Nov 20, 2008)

Ive tried about every different variety of nutrient available in my country and unfortunately Advanced Nutrients isnt being sold here or else I would have tried it. Out of all the brands available to me I've decided on the most expensive one purely because I got good results consistently while using it. But that is not to say that some other brands have certain products that outperform the one I currently use.

However for cloning, I used to get 100% success when I was using willow juice, but that ended when I moved house and....no more willow tree. So now I am forced to use shop bought cloning and rooting products and the success rate is pretty much like everyone else, 9 out of 10.

Anyways, to all those AN fanatics, does anyone know how many winners of the Cannabis Cup used Advanced Nutrients in their grows?


----------



## alex420cali (Feb 3, 2009)

OK everyone stopped talking about VHO. BACK TO THE TOPIC.

I was desperate for fast results and I bought VHO. It was thursday night. On friday I watered my 4 day old plant with VHO at about 10ml per gallon water. I over watered and let the water come out the bottom of the soil pot and partially fill the small plastic saucer. The soil pot was only about the size of a party cup. I over watered because I would be away for the weekend and I didn't want the plant to wilt or dry out. So I went to visit my family 4 hours north. I left on friday morning after the watering. I came back on Sunday morning and rushed to the plant to make sure it wasn't dry. When I opened my small grow box with 150 watt hps bulb........SHOCK AND AWE.....I could not believe my eyes.....OMGOSH..............For a moment I thought this couldn't be possible. VHO had turned my 4 day old seedling into a mini bush in 48 hours at 18 hr light. I was so surprised I called my girlfriend and told her. THIS IS THE MOST AMAZING NUTRIENT EVER. I then went out and bought a lot more AN. Sucess from day one, i then bought b-52 and added to VHO....I was even more amazed at the results. So people, try VHO alone and see yourself. I dont advertise or work for AN, I just want to use what works the best. This is true and I will never stop using VHO. The one week old plant started growing branches!!! In two weeks of using VHO it made my plant a huge bush! time to flower early!!!


These pics are the first two weeks from seedling.


----------



## headbandrocker (Feb 3, 2009)

Dang! hmmmmm do i need it?


----------



## Londoner (Feb 3, 2009)

alex420cali said:


> OK everyone stopped talking about VHO. BACK TO THE TOPIC.
> 
> I was desperate for fast results and I bought VHO. It was thursday night. On friday I watered my 4 day old plant with VHO at about 10ml per gallon water. I over watered and let the water come out the bottom of the soil pot and partially fill the small plastic saucer. The soil pot was only about the size of a party cup. I over watered because I would be away for the weekend and I didn't want the plant to wilt or dry out. So I went to visit my family 4 hours north. I left on friday morning after the watering. I came back on Sunday morning and rushed to the plant to make sure it wasn't dry. When I opened my small grow box with 150 watt hps bulb........SHOCK AND AWE.....I could not believe my eyes.....OMGOSH..............For a moment I thought this couldn't be possible. VHO had turned my 4 day old seedling into a mini bush in 48 hours at 18 hr light. I was so surprised I called my girlfriend and told her. THIS IS THE MOST AMAZING NUTRIENT EVER. I then went out and bought a lot more AN. Sucess from day one, i then bought b-52 and added to VHO....I was even more amazed at the results. So people, try VHO alone and see yourself. I dont advertise or work for AN, I just want to use what works the best. This is true and I will never stop using VHO. The one week old plant started growing branches!!! In two weeks of using VHO it made my plant a huge bush! time to flower early!!!





headbandrocker said:


> Dang! hmmmmm do i need it?



No, you dont lol






Two of my plants at around two weeks old on nothing but straight tap water, just in a good quality multi purpose organic compost.


----------



## alex420cali (Feb 3, 2009)

my two week was a lot bigger than yours regardless. check the forth photo i just added.


----------



## alex420cali (Feb 3, 2009)

Londoner said:


> No, you dont lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...



mine where much bigger at two weeks. this was with a 150 watt HPS solo.

plus what power light did you use? or outdoor?


----------



## Londoner (Feb 3, 2009)

alex420cali said:


> mine where much bigger at two weeks. this was with a 150 watt HPS solo.
> 
> plus what power light did you use? or outdoor?


The point im making is not "my plant is bigger than yours" lol the point im making is that it is NOT needed to grow a healthy fast growing plant.


----------



## alex420cali (Feb 3, 2009)

Londoner said:


> The point im making is not "my plant is bigger than yours" lol the point im making is that it is NOT needed to grow a healthy fast growing plant.



True, which your plants are nice. Imagine with your skills what you could do with VHO? It works alone no need for all the AN. I use the rest cause they are also awesome.


----------



## alex420cali (Mar 9, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> I am SOOO tired of Advanced Nutrients marketing



maybe its time you tried them and see for yourself then. I have a GIANT beast plant from AN with 300 watt HPS. easily over 10 oz. want proof? check out 
supergrowplants on youtube.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Mar 9, 2009)

earlymorninstonepeomp said:


> Gimme a break.....anyone who uses common sense and the correct procedures is gonna clone with a 9/10 success rate WITHOUT an overpriced Advanced Nute product. This is my problem with these companies, they make these bullshit claims of "perfect stems for cloning" and shit like that. Its a MIRACLE PRODUCT ...yeaaaah right......Pleeeeeeease gimme one, just one ingredient in this stuff that is unique and merits the 40-50 bucks you'll pay for it. Only thing "VHO" is the bullshit on the label. Amazing that some people actually believe this shit. I think its hydro store owners that post this trash. Buuuuut......thats just my opinion.


Growers are dreamers, and conmen attempt to deliver that dream.

All "cannabis specific" products with their glorious parts A, B, and Z are bullshit...mostly poorly designed marketing schemes aimed at fools.

UB


----------



## Uncle Ben (Mar 9, 2009)

HippieMan said:


> VHO stiffens stems, increases internode length, and produces more shoots, which could be useful in a heavy indica strain where internode is clustered, or if you wanted spacerier branches for some reason w/e its got its uses.
> 
> the NPK is 5-0-2


Interesting. P is the main macro used by a plant for producing strong stems, and VHO has no P? 

I have to laugh at the crap in this industry that shuns botany in favor of scams.

UB


----------



## hooked.on.ponics (Jun 26, 2009)

If you'd ever used VHO you wouldn't question whether it works or not. It's awesome.

And it's easy to point the finger, but there has to be something to the Advanced Nutrients line or Big Mike wouldn't be putting up a million dollar challenge to prove him wrong.

http://www.growersunderground.com/milliondollarchallenge

Check it out. That confidence has to come from somewhere.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jun 27, 2009)

hooked.on.ponics said:


> If you'd ever used VHO you wouldn't question whether it works or not. It's awesome.


A plant food void in P does not work for shit. Who are you trying to kid?



> And it's easy to point the finger, but there has to be something to the Advanced Nutrients line or Big Mike wouldn't be putting up a million dollar challenge to prove him wrong.
> 
> http://www.growersunderground.com/milliondollarchallenge
> 
> Check it out. That confidence has to come from somewhere.


Like being a good pimp?


----------



## born2killspam (Jun 27, 2009)

Does that product contain those long chain fatty acids derived from boa constrictors that I've heard such good things about??


----------



## StoneInLove (Jun 27, 2009)

hooked.on.ponics said:


> Advanced Nutrients line or Big Mike wouldn't be putting up a million dollar challenge to prove him wrong.
> 
> http://www.growersunderground.com/milliondollarchallenge
> 
> Check it out. That confidence has to come from somewhere.


At their prices, that's like a day of sales, right? 12 years ago, these $50-250 jugs of stuff weren't even in a hydro store. I saw these prices the other day and almost had a seizure. For soil, I never foliar fed or used anything in my water. I made my own soil with dirt, peat, cow manure, perlite, blood meal, bat guano, seabird guano, fish emulsion. You can actually put some stuff deeper in a big bucket or ground so your girls hit it at a certain point in their grow. If it sounds like a pain, it was. I got off my snobby organic kick(although I will always love organic smoke the best) and went hydro. Even did organic hydro with rockwool(stinkiest reservoir I ever dealt with. You would almost puke). So synthetic it was. I used eco-grow and bloom and learned how to combine the two in varying proportions for different stages. It can be difficult comparing products as one product might naturally compensate for water or soil problems where the other product doesn't. When someone says product x is better than product y, did you check ph and ppc/ec before and after for both? Did they match? In soil, did you do the same? I don't doubt that people get amazing results from this over that. I just think you might have achieved the same result using your original product and adjusting what was wrong soil/waterwise when you were using that.
S.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jun 29, 2009)

Messsa said:


> .....No, cause in reality it's gunna grow $20,000 of weed.


....and so will a $3 box of Walmart plant food. Knowing exactly what you're getting in the box is nice too.


----------



## TheKing (Jul 2, 2009)

I am using it right now. It does what it is supposed to do. FYI, Advanced Nutrients is the best line on the market. Ask any professional grower and they will tell you the same thing. There is a lot of BS on the internet regarding cannabis and how to grow it for yield, quality and all the rest. The fact is, AN is the best fertilizer on the market. Bar none. Some of their nutes are pricey. However, they always perform as advertised. If price is a factor, my suggestion is to buy in bulk. Connoisseur is about the same $$ as Sensi Bloom when purchased in the 4 litre size. Good luck.


----------



## born2killspam (Jul 2, 2009)

I still like Shultz's etc for soil..


----------



## syze (Jul 3, 2009)

earlymorninstonepeomp said:


> Gimme a break.....anyone who uses common sense and the correct procedures is gonna clone with a 9/10 success rate WITHOUT an overpriced Advanced Nute product. This is my problem with these companies, they make these bullshit claims of "perfect stems for cloning" and shit like that. Its a MIRACLE PRODUCT ...yeaaaah right......Pleeeeeeease gimme one, just one ingredient in this stuff that is unique and merits the 40-50 bucks you'll pay for it. Only thing "VHO" is the bullshit on the label. Amazing that some people actually believe this shit. I think its hydro store owners that post this trash. Buuuuut......thats just my opinion.


have you treid it or done any side by side experiments or anything? didnt think so other wise you would have stated so. it doesnt depend on what "ingredient" but the combination. also, the end product depends on how the plant grew during clone and through the veg stage before 12\12. and i know for myself that it greatly improves the clones health and growth vigor. try stuff before you talk it down. so many people forget about the 100's of strains that exist that all need diff amounts of nutes and so forth if you only knew what kind of control AN gives. But i would recommend it only for advanced growers who are looking for more control and those that are beggining should go with the "others" Since they are simple and also do their job, i dont mean all others because i know there are other great nutes. And HESI is unbelievable, i combine the two


----------



## syze (Jul 3, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Interesting. P is the main macro used by a plant for producing strong stems, and VHO has no P?
> 
> I have to laugh at the crap in this industry that shuns botany in favor of scams.
> 
> UB


i believe that they researched the ingredients and came up with that exact formula through trial, not just what you think, its not an ordinary fert. so not wierd that it differs from what you logically think would work, but whats tested and does what it says to do is something diff, we arent talking about just producing strong stems, more then just strong stems, stems to be used for cloning


----------



## born2killspam (Jul 3, 2009)

Maybe it contains ground up Philospher's stone and transmutes the toxic salts from the disproportions of N&K to phosphorous containing compounds..


----------



## bushmang (Jul 5, 2009)

sounds like to me your a bit of a hater. I agree with you AN is a strong marketed product, but so is atami. AN makes some very nice prdocuts that will out yield the other nutes. I have tried GHE, and atami before i switched to AN. I have had bigger yeilds with AN period. i stay away from their powders since they get my tanks fucking dirty and its not exactly easy to clean or swap out the tanks. So i stay away. The most problem people have with AN is over feeding. Please understand that AN is highly concetrated. So dont use the medium or heavy feeding since you will nute lock your shit. their chart says max ppm at 1600 for the medium feeding but my ppms are above 2000 when i use that schedule. 

2 part with everything they offer excpet piranha and tarrantuala with a light feeding schedule and these babys flurish, i am also in NFT so they flourish very fast. 
Just remember to leav your system every two weeks with plain water for two days know a thing or two before giving them fresh nutes. I do this to get al the old salts and minerals of the roots some hydrogen peroxide and my roots are white and booming again ready to uptake more nutes. SO yes i agree AN is for the pros that want big yields. If you were in EU you would see hwo the big growers have all switched since 1gpw in SOG with GHE and Atami is not possible. Ask anyone and if they came close 1 gpw with under 15 days fo veg. 

So i would say try it befor yo mock it. cause if you have ever read any of the lables you will find a full money back gurantee. I thought about using this before but all though it didnt liv up to the hipe they greated it did out perform the competitors. so yes they are not all that they calim but they are much muc better than the rest. Since no toher company offers bud blood and i can show you pics of ap lants on week 4 ith buud blood and with out and the difference is a week to two more of bud production. 
I used i t on a 21 day veged plant and at the end of week one i had bud pistils. by week 4 the cola had almost filled. I mean dont be a jew and spend some mone o your nutes. 200 to 400g more per harvest more makes it weel worth it to me. Good luck with your farm boy nutes. its time to get hi tech.





earlymorninstonepeomp said:


> Gimme a break.....anyone who uses common sense and the correct procedures is gonna clone with a 9/10 success rate WITHOUT an overpriced Advanced Nute product. This is my problem with these companies, they make these bullshit claims of "perfect stems for cloning" and shit like that. Its a MIRACLE PRODUCT ...yeaaaah right......Pleeeeeeease gimme one, just one ingredient in this stuff that is unique and merits the 40-50 bucks you'll pay for it. Only thing "VHO" is the bullshit on the label. Amazing that some people actually believe this shit. I think its hydro store owners that post this trash. Buuuuut......thats just my opinion.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jul 5, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Maybe it contains ground up Philospher's stone and transmutes the toxic salts from the disproportions of N&K to phosphorous containing compounds..


It's the of eye of newt tonic and dried frog scrotum that make them so good.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jul 5, 2009)

TheKing said:


> I am using it right now. It does what it is supposed to do.


....and so does hundreds of other products, for alot less money. It's all about nutrients, not half naked ladies on their website's front page for a draw, silly product names, marketing designs requiring you buy many rather than one (for da really big buds").....it's a racket.



> FYI, Advanced Nutrients is the best line on the market. Ask any professional grower and they will tell you the same thing.


I'm a professional grower and wouldn't touch the line with a ten foot pole.  I grow a commercial crop using miles of drip irrigation line to water and inject plant food. I also grow veggies, pot, nut and fruit trees, premium quality wine grapes of the finest clones available, roses, citrus, etc. and I will only buy high quality salts (plant foods) that cost me as little as $1.00/lb. in 25 or 50lb. bags. The salts I buy are so pure that they literally dissolve by themselves with the slightest agitation. The best food I use is a slow release 10 month Polyon product, a 18-4-9 with micros. 

Most of the cannabis specific foods can't even get the macros right, with K being much higher than N 90% of the time for the so called "Grow" foods.

Enjoy your snake oils,
UB


----------



## born2killspam (Jul 5, 2009)

K does add resiliency, but it comes at a price.. If I was making a gimmicky plant food and wanted to claim the things they do I'd toss in alot of K.. Buds will still grow, and vegitative growth will typically look prettier.. Nobody who buys it needs to know they're defacto reducing their yield potential.. Their plants will look pretty and they'll be gung-ho to believe whatever.. Its like selling rain..


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jul 6, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> K does add resiliency, but it comes at a price.. If I was making a gimmicky plant food and wanted to claim the things they do I'd toss in alot of K.. Buds will still grow, and vegitative growth will typically look prettier.. Nobody who buys it needs to know they're defacto reducing their yield potential.. Their plants will look pretty and they'll be gung-ho to believe whatever.. Its like selling rain..


My point being, for most of these vendors to pass off a "Grow" food of say, a 3-5-8 is ridiculous. The N and K values are always reversed for some strange reason. A good "Grow" food is more like a 30-10-10, 18-5-9, or a 9-3-6.

When I amend my potting soils, I never add anything that includes K, like greensand. The plant gets all it needs from the compost.


----------



## Oneshot7126 (Jul 7, 2009)

Well my 2 cents on the whole AN discustion is that I think it works great. I personally havent tried it but I have a good friend that uses it and he was the one that actually gave me the idea to try to grow myself. I mean his purp kush plants came out superb all the leafs and it seems like the stems were all crystial-ly, but I guess in the end all it comes down to is that if it works for u than stick wit it, but if not than try sumtin new. Watever floats ur boat becuz ur the captain of ur own ship rite? Me personally, AN gots too many add-ins that make no sense too me so im good on using it. I decided to try B' Cuzz seeing as how this would be my first grow. I dont wanna fuk off my money now if things dont go rite this time around. I mean in total it still cost me around 2 sumtin for everything from a-b hydro to root, growth, bloom, flavor.. ect.. still need to buy their bloomstatic line but hey im ownly in my 3rd week of veg and considering the difference from week 2, Highly noticable. Like i said in the end YOUR ur Own captain so take it for wat it is sum things work better for others and sum dont.


----------



## GrowTech (Jul 7, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Do you have a reliable source for that info?


I can vouch, Gino and Robert were both in very serious trouble for trafficking, not only by helicopter, but airplanes, tunnels, etc. I'll see if I can find a little information on Google for you... gimme a minute.


----------



## GrowTech (Jul 7, 2009)

http://mail.psychedelic-library.org/pipermail/theharderstuff/20070219/002281.html

and this link has some information...

http://www.zoominfo.com/people/PersonDetailLimited.aspx?PersonID=1191527085&lastName=Yordanov&firstName=Eugene&id=1191527085&searchSource=page&page=2

doesn't matter though...


----------



## fat sam (Jul 7, 2009)

the ones that bag on AN are either to broke and cant afford it or they are stuck in the stone ages and use shit like peters and miracle grow.... i mean yeah they are pricy but it is a pot specific product.....unlike a lot of others


----------



## born2killspam (Jul 7, 2009)

Which pot is that?? Sativa?? Indica?? Strains that evolved in equatorial regions?? In the mountains?? Anybody who has ever grown out a pack of seeds knows that plants have individual appetites.. And distant genetics can have VASTLY different nutrient needs.. Thats why alot of ppl prefer to grow an entire table of identical clones rather than mess with individuals..
Its actually not that easy to find MSDS on AN products, but when you do its pretty fucking hilarious... I'm surprised they don't sell that stuff off the back of a wagon while travelling from town to town..


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jul 8, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Its actually not that easy to find MSDS on AN products, but when you do its pretty fucking hilarious... I'm surprised they don't sell that stuff off the back of a wagon while travelling from town to town..


I have never found that much difference between genotypes regarding nutritional requirements, and I have grown pure sativa to indica dom clones and everything in between in the same garden. Everyone gets the same treatment. I prefer potting mixes rich in organic nutrients like the meals, ONLY because they are slow release and that's what growing premium quality plants is all about - giving them a little over a long period of time.

Having said that, some of the best plants I ever grew indoors was using cheap off the shelf plant food like Miracle Gro (see my avatar) or something I picked up at Walmart. "Cannabis specific" foods are a joke, appealing to the naive and those that dream of da big bud that don't know any better. After all, "we're all dreamers, and con men fulfill that dream."

Wean yourself off the charts and the hype and learn what makes a plant tick people. 

UB


----------



## born2killspam (Jul 8, 2009)

I actually found individuals from the same pack of NL5 to be fairly finicky compared to siblings, but then again that was in hydro, so none of that nice soil compensation.. Aside from Mg, which some wanted and others didn't, it was more about ppm than ratios though.. And there are a few strains known to like more/less concentration, I haven't done them myself, but autos are apparently really light eaters.. Does AN make special considerations for these??


----------



## syze (Jul 10, 2009)

not on the label but when you inform yourself through them they tell you this


----------



## born2killspam (Jul 10, 2009)

I hope Shultz's does the same in the near future..


----------



## born2killspam (Jul 12, 2009)

Everything works, shoot distribution is about genetics and auxin distribution.. I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm sating that all that K is there for appearance sake, it does make a plant look vigourous and healthy, but in the end it will actually reduce the yield your plants could have had if they were grown well with better proportions..
To make an analogy its like a person who digs ditches during the day, and body builds as a hobby.. Sure the body building can let them mold their body to appear more proportionally Adonis like, but really they'd be more productive if they used that time/energy to dig more ditches..


----------

