# Jack's 321 Questions



## Skybound420 (Aug 29, 2018)

Hi, I'm new to RIU, but have been growing and blogging on 420 for a few years. I'm looking to get into making my own nutes to better learn what I've been giving my plants, but also to have the ability to make minute adjustments to the ratios so as to get out ahead of the minor deficiencies I've been plagued with for a about a year now. I'm growing Kush, and have been using GH Flora series and all of their supplements, minus Diamond Nectar. I learned the hard way that both Liquid Koolbloom and Flora Blend can become moldy and unusable which is really sad seeing as how I'm paying for mostly water anyways. Still though, I need to get ahead of things like that.

I found GreenGene's YouTube page, and also noticed that he posts here too, but I was hoping to maybe gather still more info on top of what Gene shared in his video on this topic. For starters, I'd like to view the 321 recipe, but also have the popular supplements used with that line. I'd also like to know if anybody has created some baseline recipes for specific strains? 

And finally, from what I've read or saw thus far, Jack's 321 is worth it's own thread IMO.


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## mmjmon (Aug 29, 2018)

I thought there already was a thread.


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## rkymtnman (Aug 29, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> and have been using GH Flora series and all of their supplements,


that's probably what's causing issues.

the flora or the maxi series are all you really need. you start adding cal/mg and pk boosters and that usually causes lockout or toxicity as it messes with the NPK ratios.


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## Skybound420 (Aug 29, 2018)

mmjmon said:


> I thought there already was a thread.


I searched, this and other forums and only found scattered bits on the topic.



rkymtnman said:


> that's probably what's causing issues.
> 
> the flora or the maxi series are all you really need. you start adding cal/mg and pk boosters and that usually causes lockout or toxicity as it messes with the NPK ratios.


My deficiencies are very minor, but still noticeable. I've tweaked my feed to a minor degree, but it's difficult to isolate a specific component that you want elevated. I'm looking for more precise control. For a few years, I've been working on a growroom automation system and built and coded a fairly reliable dosing system with peristaltic pumps. I'd like to be able to tweak for instance phosphorus, or maybe magnesium. Assuming that each component can be liquefied and stored in that state, I'll be able to dose it out in very small quantities or save recipes in memory like a preset or set of presets, stuff like that.

As it relates to Maxi, has someone taken the time to build it out the way Jack's 321 has been? If I understand correctly, Jack's 321 has a standardized recipe and depending Veg or Bloom will dictate which supplements are added, much like regular hydro nutes.


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## rkymtnman (Aug 29, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> As it relates to Maxi, has someone taken the time to build it out the way Jack's 321 has been? If I understand correctly, Jack's 321 has a standardized recipe and depending Veg or Bloom will dictate which supplements are added, much like regular hydro nutes


i've been using just maxi bloom from start to finish. i'm going to try to mess around with maxi gro for more of veg and transition. end up with a mix of the two.

i just add a powdered kelp, fulvic, humic and micro mix as my one supplement. other than a root rot preventative


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## Kami Samurai (Aug 29, 2018)

You run jacks @ 321 all the way through and greengene has a video that he breaks down ratios and puts his own modified formula up as well as his formula plus MOAB.
I have a log on my Kens GDP where I go over what additives I’ll be using with jacks 321. You’ll need at least 2 injectors as well or you’ll end up with gypsum.






If this doesn’t make sense you should read more into dry nutrients (fatmans guide) and ratios. He goes Over ratios pretty well in this video

Silica and a Rooting enhancer are all that’s missing and you can supplement Fulvic/Humic depending on media.

Rooting enhancers are a subject on their own there are several products available but mostly products are made with enzyme fermentation of organics such as kelp or extraction methods like cold pressing. Other subjects on Rooting are Cytokins, IBA, etc.

I’m also going to be making my own sweet raw for a flavor enhancer.


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## Skybound420 (Aug 29, 2018)

I believe it was Fatman's guide that I tried to read through, but the content was either too long, I was too stoned, or a mixture of the two gave me a headache and I tried searching other leads. I comprehend the ratios, I use my own ratios to convert GH's feed schedule to a canna friendly regimen that tops out @850ppm. As for clone juice, I just mix a ferment (Flora Blend) and regular GH bloom nutes (0-5-4) equally to 250ppm and I get 100% success. It's slow, but works every time. None the less, I've done my best with GH and I still seem to not get things quite right and I just want to try something else that's much cheaper and also more controllable. I'm watching Gene's video for the 3rd time now. Any chance you can link me to the comparison chart he's using (32:00)? Also, just so I know, J321 is a 2 part solution. 3 and 2 combine into Part A and 1 is Part B?

Is anybody using sweeteners such as molasses or Terpinator? I'd like to keep using Flora Nectar till I'm done with the Kush in a few months. I'm growing Triple Cheese next. IDK if molasses will complement cheese the way it does Kush.


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## Kami Samurai (Aug 29, 2018)

I use GH too we’re on the same page bud, here’s a link to my thread it’s actually terpinator I’ll be making:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/kens-gdp-indoor-dwc-grow.971800/

Silica doesn’t mix with terpinator either so I plan to drop Silica in flower


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## CannaCountry (Aug 30, 2018)

When using Jacks 321, you mix the base nutrient first (Part A) until it's completely dissolved, then add your Epsom (Part C) and mix this until it's completely dissolved and then add the Calcium Nitrate (Part B). GreneGenes explains this pretty clearly in his video, not to mention the directions on the label note the same as does Peter's website.


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## Skybound420 (Aug 30, 2018)

CannaCountry said:


> When using Jacks 321, you mix the base nutrient first (Part A) until it's completely dissolved, then add your Epsom (Part C) and mix this until it's completely dissolved and then add the Calcium Nitrate (Part B). GreneGenes explains this pretty clearly in his video, not to mention the directions on the label note the same as does Peter's website.


The other videos I saw for mixing had just 2 buckets and that's what's confusing me as there are 3 main ingredients. So, if I understand you correctly, Part A is added to RO and mixed thoroughly. Then the Epsom is added to that Part A mix? Then Part B is made with RO by itself and the two stay apart until being mixed with more RO in the res?



Kami Samurai said:


> I use GH too we’re on the same page bud, here’s a link to my thread it’s actually terpinator I’ll be making:
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/kens-gdp-indoor-dwc-grow.971800/
> 
> Silica doesn’t mix with terpinator either so I plan to drop Silica in flower


Thanks, I'll start in on your thread now!


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## CannaCountry (Aug 31, 2018)

I don't use RO water so I can't speak in terms of that. Simply put, I put tap water in a bucket, add part A, mix this until it's completely dissolved, then I add my Epsom to the same bucket of water (now containing part A) and mix until the Epsom (Part C if you will) is completely dissolved, then I add the Calcium Nitrate (Part B) to the same bucket (now containing Part A and Part C) and mix until dissolved. Then I pH it and I'm off to the races.


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## Skybound420 (Aug 31, 2018)

Thanks @CannaCountry I think I get it, but I'm guessing that's your weekly mix. I'm wanting to make concentrates to be used to change out 4 weekly res changes for my 3 bloom rooms and veg closet.


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## thenasty1 (Aug 31, 2018)

https://www.rollitup.org/t/opinions-on-chem-gro-4-20-39-and-other-cheap-dry-nutes.956242/

i got a lot of good info from this thread. i switched to jacks a few months ago, very happy with my results. i switch the ratios up a bit throughout the cycle, and i run fulvic acid, silica, mkp, and a few microbial products


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## CannaCountry (Sep 1, 2018)

Skybound420...I mix up nutrient to last me @ 4 days at a time. I've gone as long as 7 days, but find algae begins to form at this point, so I've opted for less time between reservoir changes, unless it becomes absolutely necessary to go longer. I can't speak in terms of making a 'concentrate'. I simply mix it as directed and go. Sounds like you have a pretty healthy operation going; mine is small and for my personal use only, anything larger is out of my league if you will. I'm sure you could mix up a 'concentrate' and then dilute it back with water when you're ready to use it, though I don't know how well the 3 parts to this formula will mix the more concentrated you get. Perhaps someone here can chime in with some experience. Anyhow, good luck my friend; I'm sure you'll work it out.


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## Skybound420 (Sep 1, 2018)

CannaCountry said:


> Skybound420...I mix up nutrient to last me @ 4 days at a time. I've gone as long as 7 days, but find algae begins to form at this point, so I've opted for less time between reservoir changes, unless it becomes absolutely necessary to go longer. I can't speak in terms of making a 'concentrate'. I simply mix it as directed and go. Sounds like you have a pretty healthy operation going; mine is small and for my personal use only, anything larger is out of my league if you will. I'm sure you could mix up a 'concentrate' and then dilute it back with water when you're ready to use it, though I don't know how well the 3 parts to this formula will mix the more concentrated you get. Perhaps someone here can chime in with some experience. Anyhow, good luck my friend; I'm sure you'll work it out.


Yes, I aim to make concentrates to replace the GH line. Assuming the parts can be mixed and be able to remain stable while being stored, that's my intention. Here's a video from a year ago that should show my need for liquid nutes. With my pumping system, I could set the machine to draw precise doses from any of various liquid sources, so essentially, I can draw from a concentrate, pump it to a res of plain RO and mix it, then add in the next part, mixit and so on. Since I made this video, I got a 3D printer and have designed new boxes for the relays and outlets, as well as the housing for the pumps. I've also printed a shit load of other cool stuff for the grow and IMO, every grower should get a cheap $150 printer.


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## CannaCountry (Sep 2, 2018)

Skybound420...yeah, you're on a completely different level than I. Kudos to you for your set up and your tech savvy skills. I'm old and slow and tend to keep things a bit more simple for this brain...haha. You're obviously pretty competent so I'm sure you'll work things out. Have a great Holiday weekend.


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## Skybound420 (Sep 2, 2018)

CannaCountry said:


> Skybound420...yeah, you're on a completely different level than I. Kudos to you for your set up and your tech savvy skills. I'm old and slow and tend to keep things a bit more simple for this brain...haha. You're obviously pretty competent so I'm sure you'll work things out. Have a great Holiday weekend.


Yeah, the tech stuff is definitely an uphill battle. Circuit building and coding are definitely not my strong suit, but I seek to make my grow autonomous so that I can solely focus on the plants and never have to deal with the typical concerns of hyrdo growers. I even redesigned a part for my ActiveAqua 160gph pump so it sucks out damn near every drop of water from my res. That thing works flawlessly. All of that aside though, I too seek simplicity. I placed an order for 1 pound of each, part A 5-12-26, part B cal nit, MKP, and a fulvic/humic/kelp blend. Aside from still needing to get Epsom salt, is there anything else I need to get started?

Is the NPK value correct for MKP? Because 'KP' in MKP is spelled in reverse of nPK, that leads me to believe that the PK values may have switched places.

Also, would I be fine if I switched out the nutes I'm using mid grow? Like if a plant has been eating GH in bloom for 5 weeks, then start right in with Jack's for week 6?


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## CannaCountry (Sep 2, 2018)

I can only tell you that I use the 5-12-16, the Calcium Nitrate and Epsom. I don't use anything else in my grow at this time. Unfortunately I can't speak in terms of the MKP or switching nutrients mid stream; I have no experience with either. If I had to surmise and really it's just my thoughts; switching nutrients in general shouldn't hurt anything. I don't think the plants care about manufacturer, packaging or the like. Give them what they want regardless of who made it and I would think they'd be fine.


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## CannaCountry (Sep 2, 2018)

Skybound420...I almost forgot. Do you have a pic of your 'redesigned' pump part? I use a fountain pump and the inlet to it is on the side of the pump, so I generally end up with about 3 gallons of feed that can't be pumped out of the reservoir. Not that this 3 gallons is wasted; I have vegetable gardens, orchids and potted plants that all enjoy it, so there's no waste. But if a modified part could be slid over the inlet on my pump that would allow me to pump darn near all the feed out of the reservoir...well, that would be great! Anyhow, you have my curiosity.


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## Atomizer (Sep 2, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> Is the NPK value correct for MKP? Because 'KP' in MKP is spelled in reverse of nPK, that leads me to believe that the PK values may have switched places.


MKP stands for Mono Potassium Phosphate, it has nothing in common with NPK and doesnt contain N


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## Skybound420 (Sep 2, 2018)

CannaCountry said:


> Skybound420...I almost forgot. Do you have a pic of your 'redesigned' pump part? I use a fountain pump and the inlet to it is on the side of the pump, so I generally end up with about 3 gallons of feed that can't be pumped out of the reservoir. Not that this 3 gallons is wasted; I have vegetable gardens, orchids and potted plants that all enjoy it, so there's no waste. But if a modified part could be slid over the inlet on my pump that would allow me to pump darn near all the feed out of the reservoir...well, that would be great! Anyhow, you have my curiosity.


I don't have a pic now bu can get you one in a half hour when Veg wakes up. My needs were identical to yours in that the ActiveAqua pump inlets from the side as well. So I pulled the twist in bung that centers the drive shaft and impeller, and I rev engineered that, added a 90º elbow to it and put a baseplate on with 2 holes for the rubber feet to be inserted. In this image, you can also see the groove for the Oring, and I also added some ribs to the inlet that catches any large debris, such as the Grodan mini cubes I use with my system. Prior to having this upgrade, I would use the feed pump to move the spent nutes right into the house drainage lines and suck off what my pump couldn't discharge, with a Super Soaker. I did this for better than a year before I got the idea to design this part. Now I can use my regular feed pump to completely empty my reservoirs right into the the house drainage lines.



Atomizer said:


> MKP stands for Mono Potassium Phosphate, it has nothing in common with NPK and doesnt contain N


Ok thanks, I just wanted to make sure that the naming of the product doesn't conflict with the listing of product ratios.


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## CannaCountry (Sep 2, 2018)

Very ingenious my friend! Kudos to you. Now you have me thinking about 3d printers; damn you! haha. Thanks for the picture, the conversation and now the demented thoughts I'm having on being a 3d engineer. Ha! Have a great Holiday weekend!


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## Skybound420 (Sep 2, 2018)

CannaCountry said:


> Very ingenious my friend! Kudos to you. Now you have me thinking about 3d printers; damn you! haha. Thanks for the picture, the conversation and now the demented thoughts I'm having on being a 3d engineer. Ha! Have a great Holiday weekend!


Engineering came easy to me thanks to the very basic code skills I picked up doing the other thing in the video. Most people that design things to print use point and click software like Fusion 360, but I found it easier to jump into the app most people frown upon, the one that uses code to define the object being designed. It's all just XYZ dimensions applied to basic shapes, and moving them around or deducting one from another. The good thing about my designs is that they're easily editable. I just need to alter the basic dimensions and I can output a different file to be used for printing. Same deal with my custom drip ring. I made that to sit inside of the small one gallon pots. Also notice the red bracket holding some dosing syringes, also made a dumb bracket to mimic a pocket to hang meters from. IMO, every serious grower needs a printer to make that which the market simply does not have. I'm also trying to recreate a ball valve to be controlled with servos, but so far that's a bust. 

All that aside, you can get a Creality Ender 3 for $150 from China or $230 on Prime, and of all the cheap Chinese printers I've seen on the market, this one is easy to assemble and produces great prints right from the start. FWIW, I have a Tevo Tarantula which came out before the Ender, but mine was and still is a royal pain in the ass for the same price.


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## thenasty1 (Sep 2, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> Yeah, the tech stuff is definitely an uphill battle. Circuit building and coding are definitely not my strong suit, but I seek to make my grow autonomous so that I can solely focus on the plants and never have to deal with the typical concerns of hyrdo growers. I even redesigned a part for my ActiveAqua 160gph pump so it sucks out damn near every drop of water from my res. That thing works flawlessly. All of that aside though, I too seek simplicity. I placed an order for 1 pound of each, part A 5-12-26, part B cal nit, MKP, and a fulvic/humic/kelp blend. Aside from still needing to get Epsom salt, is there anything else I need to get started?
> 
> Is the NPK value correct for MKP? Because 'KP' in MKP is spelled in reverse of nPK, that leads me to believe that the PK values may have switched places.
> 
> Also, would I be fine if I switched out the nutes I'm using mid grow? Like if a plant has been eating GH in bloom for 5 weeks, then start right in with Jack's for week 6?


npk value for your mkp (KH2PO4) is correct. im pretty sure mkp is shorthand and reflective of the pronunciation rather than the chemical formula. if you got it from customhydronutrients.com, you can email them with questions. ive hit them up a few times with questions and always got a reasonably prompt and detailed response. i also run growsil amorphous silica (also from customhydro) at .05g/gal, but this is not essential. i run a bunch of microbial stuff, you might want to look into that unless you intend to run a sterile res. 
i switched nutes mid run when i got my new stuff in. no adverse effects, and i think it was a major contributor factor in saving that run
got any easily digestable links regarding 3d printing? printer recommendations? i am curious about this and its application to growing


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## Skybound420 (Sep 2, 2018)

thenasty1 said:


> npk value for your mkp (KH2PO4) is correct. im pretty sure mkp is shorthand and reflective of the pronunciation rather than the chemical formula. if you got it from customhydronutrients.com, you can email them with questions. ive hit them up a few times with questions and always got a reasonably prompt and detailed response. i also run growsil amorphous silica (also from customhydro) at .05g/gal, but this is not essential. i run a bunch of microbial stuff, you might want to look into that unless you intend to run a sterile res.
> i switched nutes mid run when i got my new stuff in. no adverse effects, and i think it was a major contributor factor in saving that run
> got any easily digestable links regarding 3d printing? printer recommendations? i am curious about this and its application to growing


I too use bennies, Recharge now but plan to go back to Heisenberg Tea, this time maybe with some of that P rich bat guano, or something like that. I'm also using silica currently, and have read that silica conflicts with Terpenator. I tried Terp, but didn't notice any sweetening, so I switched to GH Flora Nectar and my smoke is super sweet now. I suppose I'll have to try other dry sweeteners or even plain ole molasses?

As far as 3D printers are concerned, there's 2 general approaches and each is determined by your budget. That said, the cheap Chinese models range from $100 up to about $800. Anything more pricey will likely fall into the Proprietary category. The quality is usually somewhat better, but the major markup is usually due to the brand and the private firmware.

I'm a cheap fuck, so I of course have the Chinese model. All of these ones are based from the same open source design called "i3". The 3 major names in Chinese "i3" printers are Creality, Tevo, Anet and the other popular brand names escape me at this time. Off course, each of those brands have various models, each offering slightly larger "build volume", and some with extended functionality. I forgot to mention that another brand of "i3" that is not Chinese is the "Prusa i3". Prusa invented the i3 design and chose to make it open source. Prusa printers come mostly assembled and are known to be in a class of their own. The Prusa Mk2 and Mk3 I think start at $800, but those models are amazing and there's plenty of content on YouTube.

I suggest also researching youtube for Tevo, Creality, and Anet and see what you learn. For me, the Tevo Tarantula arrived completely disassembled and assermbly took me a very long time, and if not for all the tools I have, I wouldn't have finished the build successfully. I chat privately with another grower that I convinced to get a printer and his research lead him to get a Creality Ender 3. That model requires about 10 minutes of basic assembly and right off the gate his printer produces better results than mine. It's my opnion that Creality gave more thought to their models than Tevo did.

Once you boil it down to which possible models you're interested, you can then search facebook for a 3d printer group for the specific model(s) you're thinking about buying and join each. Once approved, you can then ask actual owners for opinions of their printer and suggestions for other models if they're not satisfied. In the Tarantula group, there are well over 50,000 members, and the same thing in the Creality CR10 group, Creality Ender3 group etc etc etc. Your questions will never fall on deaf ears.

Model ----------------------- volume ---------- price range
Anet A8 --------------------- 220x220x240 -- $200~
Tevo Tarantula ------------ 200x200x200 -- $200~
Tevo Tornado -------------- 300x300x400 -- $300-500~
Creality Ender 3 ---------- 220x220x280 -- $200~
Creality CR10 ------------- 300x300x400 -- $300-500~

Here's a link to one of my Thingiverse accounts and the designs I've shared there. I plan to soon share the pump mod design, as well as some of the other random things I designed for the hobby. My other account is just for Tarantula upgrades I've designed, but those would be useless here.

Skybound's Things


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## ttystikk (Sep 2, 2018)

M = mono
K = potassium
P = phosphate

It's a nutrient double salt.

Its NPK value is 0-52-32

N = nitrogen
P = phosphate
K = potassium

This really isn't difficult but it is to the advantage of water bottle nutrient makes to confuse things so they can charge uneducated people outlandish amounts of money for basic nutrients.

Then those very same people wonder why real farmers don't take them seriously.


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## Skybound420 (Sep 6, 2018)

Does anybody have a link to the table Green Gene uses in his video to illustrate the ratio differences between basic 321, Gene's 321, Lucas Formula etc?

I got the basics, 5-12-26(A). 15-0-0 CalNit (B), Epsom Salt (C), as well as a Fulvic/Humic/Kelp blend, soluble Seaweed powder, Ancient Forest and the remaining contents to make Heisenberg Tea. I got the 2 part and Epsom yesterday, so I went ahead and mixed up a single 10 gal res for week 3 of bloom. When I went in today to add some of the blend, I noticed many splotches floating on the water. I guess some nutes bonded as I mixed the salts into the res instead of premixing a concentrate. So I cycled while adding in the blend (1.5 TSP for 10 gals) and corrected the pH and I'm confident the acids will help break apart any bonds.

I also tested 321 last night and the ppm seemed pretty high, almost 1000 ppm for just adding together the result of each component per gallon, and I didn't even do 3.6, 2.4 and 1.2. I've since mixed up a gallon of concentrate of each part @3.6, 2.4, 1.2. 200 grams per each gallon, and I'll use those to mete in the respective dose. I can then adjust the numbers if needed, not have to worry about breathing dust or potentially have another bonding session in the reservoir. I should be able to mix around 8 bloom weeks before needing to mix up A again. I also discovered when pouring the part A into the RO that the heavy particles sink fast and create a lot of heat, so much that the jug was beginning to soften. I would estimate 150º F, maybe 175º hot. Thankfully I didn't decide to put more than 200 grams in there. I mean next time I will, but I'll do so in a location suitable should something go awry. 

I'm asking for educated guesses here, but I bought the Seaweed because I read on MaxYield that someone linked to another thread that seaweed and humic acid make an auxin encouraging foliar spray at 5 parts humic to 2 parts seaweed, but my humic is also mixed with kelp and fulvic acid, so I want to ask for an educated guess how to mix up a batch as I have 2 in veg that are plenty tall and wide, but need to fill up. Also, what PPM should I mix to for a foliar spray? Only for veg only.


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## Kami Samurai (Sep 7, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> Does anybody have a link to the table Green Gene uses in his video to illustrate the ratio differences between basic 321, Gene's 321, Lucas Formula etc?
> 
> I got the basics, 5-12-26(A). 15-0-0 CalNit (B), Epsom Salt (C), as well as a Fulvic/Humic/Kelp blend, soluble Seaweed powder, Ancient Forest and the remaining contents to make Heisenberg Tea. I got the 2 part and Epsom yesterday, so I went ahead and mixed up a single 10 gal res for week 3 of bloom. When I went in today to add some of the blend, I noticed many splotches floating on the water. I guess some nutes bonded as I mixed the salts into the res instead of premixing a concentrate. So I cycled while adding in the blend (1.5 TSP for 10 gals) and corrected the pH and I'm confident the acids will help break apart any bonds.
> 
> ...







It’s toward the end just pause.

You could make a 1 gallon solution and measure E.c of each component to understand levels that should be added to your reservoir. As for as the spray I’m doing a lot of reasearch on building your own rooting compound. The tea itself encourages root growth. I’ll post clear results on my test w/ recipes and dosage ratios. I’ll start in a few weeks and run 20 recipes at a time using 4 week gauges on clones, seedlings, & vegging plants.


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## Skybound420 (Sep 7, 2018)

Kami Samurai said:


> It’s toward the end just pause.
> 
> You could make a 1 gallon solution and measure E.c of each component to understand levels that should be added to your reservoir. As for as the spray I’m doing a lot of reasearch on building your own rooting compound. The tea itself encourages root growth. I’ll post clear results on my test w/ recipes and dosage ratios. I’ll start in a few weeks and run 20 recipes at a time using 4 week gauges on clones, seedlings, & vegging plants.


I've watched Gene's video a few times and believe I'm on page with him more or less. In the video, he stated to stick with our PPM levels as like with other nutes, just to keep the ratios of the components which I am doing. I am just adjusting the concentration levels of each part into a gallon of water so I can then use that gallon of water respectively according to the recipe.

I have a sketchy memory, but I could've sworn it was you that linked to MaxYield on another thread regarding the topic of Fulvic/Humic Acids. Anyway, in that article which I've also read several times, it states that Fulvic, Humic, Kelp and/or Seaweed combos add auxins which stimulate root growth. I mixed up 5 parts of THIS Fulvic/Humic/Kelp Blend with 2 parts Soluble Seaweed into a quart of RO. Each part is 1/4 TSP. My plan is to use some of that mixed with RO to use as a foliar spray for Veg plants to encourage growth where applied, but in my years growing, I've never really got into mixing foliar sprays and I don't know what would be a safe range to mix to. Do you think 100-200 ppm would be good for foliar sprays?

The 5:2:quart mix is 1430ppm, 8.86pH

Edit - I added 10ml of the above blend to a quart of RO and that went to 40 PPM @ 7.65pH. The color is pretty dark, maybe a little darker than Heisenberg Tea or Recharge, so I just left it at that. If someone believes I can add more, I will, but just to have something to experiment with, I'll stay there. I sprayed two clones that are yet to root since 8/25, and also the lowest branch of one the moms. I hope to see changes in a week or so.


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## Ryante55 (Sep 7, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> Hi, I'm new to RIU, but have been growing and blogging on 420 for a few years. I'm looking to get into making my own nutes to better learn what I've been giving my plants, but also to have the ability to make minute adjustments to the ratios so as to get out ahead of the minor deficiencies I've been plagued with for a about a year now. I'm growing Kush, and have been using GH Flora series and all of their supplements, minus Diamond Nectar. I learned the hard way that both Liquid Koolbloom and Flora Blend can become moldy and unusable which is really sad seeing as how I'm paying for mostly water anyways. Still though, I need to get ahead of things like that.
> 
> I found GreenGene's YouTube page, and also noticed that he posts here too, but I was hoping to maybe gather still more info on top of what Gene shared in his video on this topic. For starters, I'd like to view the 321 recipe, but also have the popular supplements used with that line. I'd also like to know if anybody has created some baseline recipes for specific strains?
> 
> And finally, from what I've read or saw thus far, Jack's 321 is worth it's own thread IMO.


His 40 min video didn't answer all your questions?


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## Skybound420 (Sep 7, 2018)

Ryante55 said:


> His 40 min video didn't answer all your questions?


For the most part it has.


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## Kami Samurai (Sep 7, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> I've watched Gene's video a few times and believe I'm on page with him more or less. In the video, he stated to stick with our PPM levels as like with other nutes, just to keep the ratios of the components which I am doing. I am just adjusting the concentration levels of each part into a gallon of water so I can then use that gallon of water respectively according to the recipe.
> 
> I have a sketchy memory, but I could've sworn it was you that linked to MaxYield on another thread regarding the topic of Fulvic/Humic Acids. Anyway, in that article which I've also read several times, it states that Fulvic, Humic, Kelp and/or Seaweed combos add auxins which stimulate root growth. I mixed up 5 parts of THIS Fulvic/Humic/Kelp Blend with 2 parts Soluble Seaweed into a quart of RO. Each part is 1/4 TSP. My plan is to use some of that mixed with RO to use as a foliar spray for Veg plants to encourage growth where applied, but in my years growing, I've never really got into mixing foliar sprays and I don't know what would be a safe range to mix to. Do you think 100-200 ppm would be good for foliar sprays?
> 
> ...


Maybe, I have a few post on the subject. I wouldn’t worry about e.c./Ppm too much they’re organic components that would throw off your reading. I’d start with 1/4 recommended dose and move up from there. You can alway do multiple feedings.


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## firsttimeARE (Sep 8, 2018)

I do 2.4g Jack's, 1.6g CaNO3 and don't use Epsom (my plants never miss it)

In mid flowering I've been reducing CaNO3 levels

I incorporate MKP from weeks 2-5. Then potassium sulfate I've been using to increase terps and bulk later flower. From weeks 6 and on.


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## Skybound420 (Sep 8, 2018)

firsttimeARE said:


> I do 2.4g Jack's, 1.6g CaNO3 and don't use Epsom (my plants never miss it)
> 
> In mid flowering I've been reducing CaNO3 levels
> 
> I incorporate MKP from weeks 2-5. Then potassium sulfate I've been using to increase terps and bulk later flower. From weeks 6 and on.


I'll have to order PotSul, I only have MKP for now. What is the reason for switching out MKP with PotSul? I admit being novice, but my studies suggest that P is most important in late bloom for fattening. Is this incorrect?

Do you have a mix for rooting clones? I'm thinking some Fulvic/Humic/Kelp blend with a small amount of MKP. When using GH, I'd mix FloraBlend (acids) and Flora Bloom equally to about 300ppm and that gave me 100% success, though took 14 days steadily. I'd like to speed that up with a better mix if I can.


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## firsttimeARE (Sep 8, 2018)

K is most important in late flower.

There has been research suggestion sulfates increase smells (terpenes) in plants.

I have read to reduce phosphates late flower and wanted to try it out. The idea being improved burn and taste. But I'm still testing to see if it's a load. So far my plants haven't missed it.

Plus the mix has some


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## Skybound420 (Sep 8, 2018)

firsttimeARE said:


> K is most important in late flower.
> 
> There has been research suggestion sulfates increase smells (terpenes) in plants.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the intel. Some quick added research on the topic also shows my error in understanding.


> During heavy fruit and flower production, the plants continue to need higher levels of phosphorus to help provide energy for the developing fruit, but higher levels of potassium are also important for increased carbohydrate metabolism. Generally speaking, phosphorus and potassium are both important during the fruiting and flowering stage, but increased phosphorus is particularly beneficial during the early generative stage, while increased potassium is particularly beneficial during the final stages of fruit and flower production.


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## Kami Samurai (Sep 8, 2018)

firsttimeARE said:


> K is most important in late flower.
> 
> There has been research suggestion sulfates increase smells (terpenes) in plants.
> 
> ...


Terpinator is suppose to be potassium sulfate and Dark Brown Sugar. I actually just got a 5lb bag, You’d be adding your sulfate with that (p.sulfate) instead of using Epsom which is (Mag. sulfate)
Sweet raw is suppose to be magnesium sulfate and cane sugar.
I was going to drop Epsom 50% and add 5ml of a 10% diy terpinator solution.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-correct-homemade-terpinator-resinator-formula.915401/

In place of just MPK powder I’ll make my own Moab with MPK and a bit mono-ammonium. And a homemade Hammerhead

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/hammerhead-0-9-18-making-my-own.76527

Since Hammerhead is just MPK/ P.Sulfate/ & Epsom I’ll have to figure out ratios and drop terpinator on weeks with Hammerhead.


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## Skybound420 (Sep 8, 2018)

I tried Terpenator a few months back and was not impressed, but mostly because of the high price, but it smelled so good I was tempted to drink it, lol. I'll give it another go DIY style. After I stopped with that, I switched to GH Flora Nectar Fruit-n-Fusion and I definitely noticed the influence in taste of my smoke. I'd like to one day recreate this product. It has 1%K2O, 0.5%M, 0.5%S, 17.5% Kane Sugar and 5% molasses. I'm inclined to believe that it also has raspberry esters in it because it smells like raspberry iced tea.

I have one in early bloom with the standard 321 mix, and another in late bloom that I'll finish up using firsttimeARE's 2.6/1.4/0 and see how that goes. I'll have to use MKP in place of Potassium Sulfate, so maybe I'll still have to use some epsom to get elevated sulfur?

FWIW, I'm using 5-12-26 Jack's which has about twice the Mg and S as 5-11-26, so maybe I could get away with no Epsom?


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## firsttimeARE (Sep 8, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> I tried Terpenator a few months back and was not impressed, but mostly because of the high price, but it smelled so good I was tempted to drink it, lol. I'll give it another go DIY style. After I stopped with that, I switched to GH Flora Nectar Fruit-n-Fusion and I definitely noticed the influence in taste of my smoke. I'd like to one day recreate this product. It has 1%K2O, 0.5%M, 0.5%S, 17.5% Kane Sugar and 5% molasses. I'm inclined to believe that it also has raspberry esters in it because it smells like raspberry iced tea.
> 
> I have one in early bloom with the standard 321 mix, and another in late bloom that I'll finish up using firsttimeARE's 2.6/1.4/0 and see how that goes. I'll have to use MKP in place of Potassium Sulfate, so maybe I'll still have to use some epsom to get elevated sulfur?
> 
> FWIW, I'm using 5-12-26 Jack's which has about twice the Mg and S as 5-11-26, so maybe I could get away with no Epsom?


I used to use the 5-11-26 and needed Epsom with it. But there's enough Mg in the 5-12-26 where plans haven't missed it.

I've reduced the CaNO3 to 1.2 around week 5 and 0.8 at week 7. First time I'm doing it. Just experimental. I did run into some Ca deficiencies. I picked up some calcium sulfate (gypsum) to get a source of calcium in late flower when I'm trying to reduce nitrogen levels but the folks at JR Peter's tells me it's only partially soluable in hydro. So I'm back to the drawing board on how I can reduce N levels but still maintain proper Ca levels.

My plants are finally being cropped with light to mid green leaves instead of dark green. Just chopped a few days ago so I'll see in a week if it helps taste


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## Skybound420 (Sep 8, 2018)

firsttimeARE said:


> I used to use the 5-11-26 and needed Epsom with it. But there's enough Mg in the 5-12-26 where plans haven't missed it.
> 
> I've reduced the CaNO3 to 1.2 around week 5 and 0.8 at week 7. First time I'm doing it. Just experimental. I did run into some Ca deficiencies. I picked up some calcium sulfate (gypsum) to get a source of calcium in late flower when I'm trying to reduce nitrogen levels but the folks at JR Peter's tells me it's only partially soluable in hydro. So I'm back to the drawing board on how I can reduce N levels but still maintain proper Ca levels.
> 
> My plants are finally being cropped with light to mid green leaves instead of dark green. Just chopped a few days ago so I'll see in a week if it helps taste


Would something like this straight calcium work? I looked up calcium sulfate and it said it can't be mixed in a storable solution and is only soluble to 2 grams per liter. I don't fully understand that yet, but it does give me a sense of concern because I'm using a recirculating system and will need something that can be available for about a week at least, but ideally (for me), I hope to settle on a recipe that allows me to liquefy everything into concentrates.


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## CannaCountry (Sep 9, 2018)

This is just me; I use the 3 2 1 formula throughout the plant's life, with nothing else added. Under my growing conditions, using my tap water and considering the strain I'm working with, literally 3g; 2g; 1g is what I consider my 100% mix or the maximum my plants can take without showing ill effects. With that being said, I simply adjust this formula according to where the plant is in its life, but the ratio always remains at 3 2 1. For example when I take clones, I use a 25% mix of the 100% formula above (.75g ; .5g; .25g per gallon), at the peak of their lives (last week or so in Veg and the first 2-3 weeks of flower) they'll get exactly 3g; 2g; 1g; I then slowly ramp them down from this to a 5% mix by the time they're ready for harvest. This has produced the heaviest, stickiest, smelliest, most beautiful flowers I've experienced, and while I won't post pics, they are in every way comparable to the best flowers out there. Once I compile enough data (ie. grow the same strain, under the same conditions, while keeping very good notes, at a minimum of 5 times) I will then experiment with those products that might give an individual an additional 5% gain. But until I can verify a baseline, adding all the 'beneficials and bloom boosters' won't tell me much. But again, this is just me.


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## Atomizer (Sep 9, 2018)

firsttimeARE said:


> I used to use the 5-11-26 and needed Epsom with it. But there's enough Mg in the 5-12-26 where plans haven't missed it.
> 
> I've reduced the CaNO3 to 1.2 around week 5 and 0.8 at week 7. First time I'm doing it. Just experimental. I did run into some Ca deficiencies. I picked up some calcium sulfate (gypsum) to get a source of calcium in late flower when I'm trying to reduce nitrogen levels but the folks at JR Peter's tells me it's only partially soluable in hydro. So I'm back to the drawing board on how I can reduce N levels but still maintain proper Ca levels.
> 
> My plants are finally being cropped with light to mid green leaves instead of dark green. Just chopped a few days ago so I'll see in a week if it helps taste


Ca EDTA (9.5% Ca), 1.05g in 10L will give you 10ppm Ca.


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## Skybound420 (Sep 9, 2018)

CannaCountry said:


> This is just me; I use the 3 2 1 formula throughout the plant's life, with nothing else added. Under my growing conditions, using my tap water and considering the strain I'm working with, literally 3g; 2g; 1g is what I consider my 100% mix or the maximum my plants can take without showing ill effects. With that being said, I simply adjust this formula according to where the plant is in its life, but the ratio always remains at 3 2 1. For example when I take clones, I use a 25% mix of the 100% formula above (.75g ; .5g; .25g per gallon), at the peak of their lives (last week or so in Veg and the first 2-3 weeks of flower) they'll get exactly 3g; 2g; 1g; I then slowly ramp them down from this to a 5% mix by the time they're ready for harvest. This has produced the heaviest, stickiest, smelliest, most beautiful flowers I've experienced, and while I won't post pics, they are in every way comparable to the best flowers out there. Once I compile enough data (ie. grow the same strain, under the same conditions, while keeping very good notes, at a minimum of 5 times) I will then experiment with those products that might give an individual an additional 5% gain. But until I can verify a baseline, adding all the 'beneficials and bloom boosters' won't tell me much. But again, this is just me.


It's beginning to appear that there's a fairly wide margin of flexibility based around Jack's 321. So far, and by mistake, my first res in week 2 is getting multiples of 321 and reduced by .7 to stay in my preferred ppm range, but I noticed an awful lot of growth on a Kush. So much so that I raised my light to the max and stripped about 40-50 large fan leaves off hoping to chill out the stretch and general growth. Well, the stretch stopped, but the inner canopy seemed to fill right back up with foliage inside of a day. 

TBH though, I am a BIG fan of less is more. I think I'm going to try the (2.6/A, 1.4/B, 0/C) recipe, but not until I get some more materials and information. Till then I'll run 321.


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## firsttimeARE (Sep 9, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> Would something like this straight calcium work? I looked up calcium sulfate and it said it can't be mixed in a storable solution and is only soluble to 2 grams per liter. I don't fully understand that yet, but it does give me a sense of concern because I'm using a recirculating system and will need something that can be available for about a week at least, but ideally (for me), I hope to settle on a recipe that allows me to liquefy everything into concentrates.


Well calcium and sulphur percipitate to form calcium sulphate. So they are saying anymore would be concentrated enough to cause that percipitate


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## firsttimeARE (Sep 9, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> It's beginning to appear that there's a fairly wide margin of flexibility based around Jack's 321. So far, and by mistake, my first res in week 2 is getting multiples of 321 and reduced by .7 to stay in my preferred ppm range, but I noticed an awful lot of growth on a Kush. So much so that I raised my light to the max and stripped about 40-50 large fan leaves off hoping to chill out the stretch and general growth. Well, the stretch stopped, but the inner canopy seemed to fill right back up with foliage inside of a day.
> 
> TBH though, I am a BIG fan of less is more. I think I'm going to try the (2.6/A, 1.4/B, 0/C) recipe, but not until I get some more materials and information. Till then I'll run 321.


321 is way too hot for me. It mixes at like 1.8EC.

I even add a little extra water to the 2.4-1.6


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## Skybound420 (Sep 9, 2018)

firsttimeARE said:


> Well calcium and sulphur percipitate to form calcium sulphate. So they are saying anymore would be concentrated enough to cause that percipitate


Even if kept separate until mixed with a lot of water and chelates?



firsttimeARE said:


> 321 is way too hot for me. It mixes at like 1.8EC.
> 
> I even add a little extra water to the 2.4-1.6


Irregardless of which recipe I settle into, I will always dilute till it's within safe ppm ranges. It's just a matter of identifying which ratios will jive best with my plants which will soon be predominantly Indica (Cheese x Blue Cheese).


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## Kami Samurai (Sep 9, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> Even if kept separate until mixed with a lot of water and chelates?
> 
> 
> Irregardless of which recipe I settle into, I will always dilute till it's within safe ppm ranges. It's just a matter of identifying which ratios will jive best with my plants which will soon be predominantly Indica (Cheese x Blue Cheese).


I run 4 gallon in each dwc system so instead of dropping the ratio I plan to just add a 1 gallon measurement.
Cheese strains are some of my favorite I just threw up a thread in seed & strain review a couple days ago on the best cheese strain.
As well you can’t mix potassium sulfate and silica.


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## Skybound420 (Sep 10, 2018)

If 1 US Gallon = 3785.412ml,
to make 1 gram become 10 ml, would the math be;
3785.41/10=378.54? Add 378.54 grams of a mix to a gallon,
so I could then attribute 1ml to 1/10 of a gram?


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## CannaCountry (Sep 10, 2018)

Skybound420...your math sounds about right, although I think you're going to play hell getting all that salt into solution, but that is not a road I've traversed, it's just my less than perfect logic working...haha...so please keep us updated. It will be interesting to see how this works out for you.


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## Skybound420 (Sep 10, 2018)

CannaCountry said:


> Skybound420...your math sounds about right, although I think you're going to play hell getting all that salt into solution, but that is not a road I've traversed, it's just my less than perfect logic working...haha...so please keep us updated. It will be interesting to see how this works out for you.


I now have 200 grams into a gallon, so this would just be almost twice that amount. I do remember that adding 200 grams to gallon made the water chemically heat up and it began softening the jug. Next time I'll do a gallon in a bucket and add it slower.


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## CannaCountry (Sep 10, 2018)

Sounds like a plan. I had read earlier in your post about the solution heating up, and I wasn't quite sure if I was understanding you, but yeah, I guess I can see that happening. 178.5 grams to go. I do like where you're going with this so, yeah, let us know how it works out.


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## Skybound420 (Sep 10, 2018)

After I added the 200, I took from it to build 3 reservoirs, so I'll need to use it all up first and then start a new batch. 

edit - @200 g/Gal, 18.92ml = 1 gram, if my math is correct.


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## Skybound420 (Sep 10, 2018)

I was thinking of starting a new thread, but maybe I can get an answer here. Has anybody ever used HydroBuddy? If yes, is it possible for me to create profiles for products like Jack's Pro 5-12-26 or Jack's Cal-Nit 15-0-0? I want to save these products so I can recall them as needed in doses from each as needed. Also, I see people sharing their recipes and giving PPM data values and I was wondering how these values are learned since Jack's is listed as percentage of weight. It's as if I need to know the PPM of each element to input into HydroBuddy, but that is the kind of info I hope to get out of it.


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## Atomizer (Sep 13, 2018)

You would enter it into the substance database as a custom item. It can then be used as a selectable component/ingredient (along with others) to acheive a target nutrient formulation. It can also be used on its own via the concentration by weight function which gives the elemental ppm based on the weight you allocate to that item and the amount of water (eg, 1g of in 1L off water)


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## Skybound420 (Sep 13, 2018)

Atomizer said:


> You would enter it into the substance database as a custom item. It can then be used as a selectable component/ingredient (along with others) to acheive a target nutrient formulation. It can also be used on its own via the concentration by weight function which gives the elemental ppm based on the weight you allocate to that item and the amount of water (eg, 1g of in 1L off water)


I've since figured out how to use the app, at least enough to create custom substances (eg Jack's A, Epsom etc), set the weight for each, and create a gallon of concentrate. I presume it's just a matter of understanding the math, which I am now starting to wrap my mind around.


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## Atomizer (Sep 13, 2018)

When dealing with concentrated stock solutions be mindful of compatability and solubility and dont use tapwater to make them  Make sure the calcium nitrate you have is Yara liva calcinit not tetrahydrate.


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## Skybound420 (Sep 13, 2018)

I just got Jack's Cal Nit, is this fine?


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## Atomizer (Sep 13, 2018)

It will be alright but from a calculation point of view if its not yara calcinit you wont get the right result.


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## Billy Liar (Sep 16, 2018)

firsttimeARE said:


> I have read to reduce phosphates late flower and wanted to try it out.


I've done this with success.

I make my own copy of jacks (MgS, MKP, Potassium Nitrate, Calcium Nitrate and a micronutrient blend) I find it's perfect for adding potassium sulphate in the final weeks, whilst reducing the MKP, to lower P and raise K with the benefits of additional S, I believe the results are increases in resins!

Peace
BL


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## Skybound420 (Sep 30, 2018)

I've been making a shit load of headway thanks to the knowledge and wisdom that @im4satori shared with me and just wanted to link my feed charts and 7 components I'll be using (also linked in the post).

http://www.rollitup.org/t/jacks-jr-peters-nutrients.850683/page-35#post-14501526


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## Kami Samurai (Nov 4, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> I've been making a shit load of headway thanks to the knowledge and wisdom that @im4satori shared with me and just wanted to link my feed charts and 7 components I'll be using (also linked in the post).
> 
> http://www.rollitup.org/t/jacks-jr-peters-nutrients.850683/page-35#post-14501526


Where are you at with this bud. I just re read through all this and saw you transition to an understanding and I’m in the same process currently.
After the initial switch I had 1 strain go slightly Ca Deficient, but I can tell my plant are already as high on Nitrogen as I’d like to take it. I added Cal-Mag Plus @ 2ml a Gallon and am ordering the Calcium EDTA. Working on understanding how to use the HydroBuddy as well. My RO water Ph is about 6.2. After adding @ 2.4 A/ 1.6 B/ 0.8 C my ph was 5.1 then brought to 5.8. After 2 days the largest plant ppm dropped around 200ppm and and ph raised to 6.4. Redropped today to 5.8.


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## Skybound420 (Nov 4, 2018)

I made a post on my home forum on how to use HydroBuddy. I have a bunch of notes too, but I collected and shared them here as well. Here's the HB thread,

https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/making-your-own-nutrient-concentrates.455187/


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## Kami Samurai (Nov 4, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> I made a post on my home forum on how to use HydroBuddy. I have a bunch of notes too, but I collected and shared them here as well. Here's the HB thread,
> 
> https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/making-your-own-nutrient-concentrates.455187/


Thank you.


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## shimz (Nov 12, 2018)

Didn't see this mentioned here, so I thought I'd chime in.

Users of calcium nitrate need to be aware that this salt really likes to collect water from the air, so much so that it throws the weight off. You end up using less calnit than is called for. One way around this is to weigh the Jack's, then use an equal amount by VOLUME of calnit. This will get you very close to the 3/2 ratio. Weighing the calnit will leave you lacking.


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## Skybound420 (Nov 12, 2018)

shimz said:


> Didn't see this mentioned here, so I thought I'd chime in.
> 
> Users of calcium nitrate need to be aware that this salt really likes to collect water from the air, so much so that it throws the weight off. You end up using less calnit than is called for. One way around this is to weigh the Jack's, then use an equal amount by VOLUME of calnit. This will get you very close to the 3/2 ratio. Weighing the calnit will leave you lacking.


It's my experience that all salts will pull moisture from the surrounding air, but that was a good point to make. I notice epsom salt likes to clump up in the bag too. I store all my dries in a tote with desiccant packs and that helps some. If I feel that the desiccants aren't helping enough, I'd spread the salt on a cookie sheet and bake on low for an hour or two. I once built a compressed air dryer that used silica and I had to do this to dry that material, and also need to do this with 3D printer filament in the humid months. I think baking salts would be a safe and viable way to reconstitute the weights.


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## shimz (Nov 12, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> I think baking salts would be a safe and viable way to reconstitute the weights.


Agreed. Once happy with the dried weights, one can go by volume afterward and not have to worry about the extra water weight.


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## Kami Samurai (Nov 12, 2018)

shimz said:


> Agreed. Once happy with the dried weights, one can go by volume afterward and not have to worry about the extra water weight.


I’m going to have to measure how much it takes to get the ec/ppm I require per gallon and just multiply from there see how far off it is.


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## shimz (Nov 12, 2018)

Yep, another good method is to mix to EC targets and forgo weighing and volume measuring entirely.


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## thenasty1 (Nov 13, 2018)

i keep my salts in gamma seal buckets, this has done me well so far


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## Purpsmagurps (Nov 14, 2018)

Jacks 321 all the way!


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## Kami Samurai (Nov 14, 2018)

The only problems I’ve had with jack are N and calcium but after reading the previous post about dry weights I adjusted. Ph swings were a pain to get under control. I read this article about Ammonium nitrogen and nitrate nitrogen and the affects they have on ph. And that the positive and negatives affect ph and how they react with your water. I just raise from 4.6 to 5.4 next day I’m 5.8 wait for it to drift to 6.1. Drop to 5.8 and It sits flat 5.8-6.1 for the next 3-4 days till change.


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## CannaCountry (Nov 15, 2018)

Nice plants...321 blast off!


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## Skybound420 (Nov 17, 2018)

Purpsmagurps said:


> Jacks 321 all the way! View attachment 4233404


 

I have mixed feelings about Jack's Hydro, as well as both versions of 321. Using Jack's the way I do, with cal nite, mag nite, mkp, calcium, epsom and micros, I am able to better target all elements, and even using the higher end of the range of P that I found in another thread, I still contracted a minor P deficiency with the rust spots on old larger leaves, red/purple stems, mild blotches and a bit of bluishness in the green. For the record, Jack's 321 has 41ppm of phosphorus, what I am currently using has 65ppm, and tomorrow when I change my res, I'm bumping that up to 70 ppm.

This Triple Cheese is looking lovely, but I still notice minor P def creeping in and the last thing I want to do in mid bloom is deprive her of her P.


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## Kami Samurai (Nov 18, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> View attachment 4234972
> 
> I have mixed feelings about Jack's Hydro, as well as both versions of 321. Using Jack's the way I do, with cal nite, mag nite, mkp, calcium, epsom and micros, I am able to better target all elements, and even using the higher end of the range of P that I found in another thread, I still contracted a minor P deficiency with the rust spots on old larger leaves, red/purple stems, mild blotches and a bit of bluishness in the green. For the record, Jack's 321 has 41ppm of phosphorus, what I am currently using has 65ppm, and tomorrow when I change my res, I'm bumping that up to 70 ppm.
> 
> ...


Have you tried supplementing mpk at 1 gram per gallon? The most successful recipe I have so far is:
For a 9 Week Strain sized at (1x1) 4 plants in a 4x4 space

Week 1
Jacks 3.6/2.4/1.2 at 75% Strength usually pretty loose with the Calcium Nitrate it’s more like 2.7 per gallon.

Week 2-6
Jacks 321 @ 50%, Diy Terpinator 50% (2ml per Gallon), DIY Hammerhead 2ml per Gallon

Week 7-8
Jacks 321 @ 50%, DIY Hammerhead 2ml per Gallon, DIY MOAB 1 gram per gallon.

Week 9
Flush

I’ll plug the numbers as soon as I can. I was going to pick up jacks trace elements and calcium chloride as well. I’ve been addin about a gallon of tap to my Ro Rez But my tap ppm is 170. Want to up the calcium without going any higher on nitrogen and notice the flora Micro has trace elements not in the 321 formula such as cobalt hence the need for jacks most.

I essentially use jacks hydro, calcium nitrate, magnesium sulfate, Monopotassium Phosphate/ monoammonium phosphate, potassium sulfate, dark brown sugar, and hydroguard in flower. But will have to change again once I add the Jacks MOST and Calcium Chloride. If I decide to that is, this recipe has been quite successful. To much Nitrogen for Sativa though I’ve been having to supplement cal-mag plus at 2 ml per gallon for my Super Lemon Haze plants and keep 321 @ 50 percent for the first week. It’s to much nitrogen not enough calcium.

Have you read capulators thread on Jacks?


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## firsttimeARE (Nov 18, 2018)

I've never had my calcinit absorb water.

I made the mistake of leaving the Jack's out and that clumped up.

Maybe I should check on the 16# I have left that's just sitting their ziptied up


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## shimz (Nov 18, 2018)

firsttimeARE said:


> I've never had my calcinit absorb water.


Yes you have, it's not that obvious. Try this: weigh an amount of calcinit before and after warming to 200F for 30 minutes.


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## Skybound420 (Nov 18, 2018)

I first began trying to rev engineer various products, but then after discussing mixing various things with @im4satori I quickly learned that all of these various nutrient lines all use the same building blocks that we already are using so it then seemed redundant to make a nutrient, then try to build a feed regimen based around the constraints of that nutrient. My current approach is merely to pinpoint the ideal elemental range for all macros and micros/trace elements and so far am seeing great results.

I too had some difficulty with Cal Nite, but found another more refined source of calcium in a product called Biomin Calcium Powder sold at CustomHydro. It is still cal nite, but it has 15% chelated calcium and only 5% N. This product alone enables me to jack the Ca way up without affecting the N levels too much. At the end of it all though, Hydro Buddy does all the math for me and outputs the weights/doses of each component I have, just by the targets I input. So when I aim for 85PPM of N, 65PPM of P and 150PPM of K, I get exactly that much. If I were to begin with GH Flora Whatever, or Hammerhead, or Botanicare This/That, I would be locked inside the constraints of each, and the results would likely be far away from my targets. IMO, Hydro Buddy is more valuable to my grow than the nutrients I use as I can pretty much use any brand, wet or dry to hit my targets nearly spot on. Then it's just a matter of tweaking my targets like I'm about to do to my P later today. Here are the results of FH Flora line at full strength, 70% strength, Jack's 3.6/2.4/1.1 next to Jack's 3/2/1 for comparison. IMO, both are P deficient, but the levels of the micros produced from Jack's at 3 grams per gallon are near ideal as best I can tell, so I guess that's the trade off, great micros, but lacking P. My goal is to mitigate the tradeoffs where possible.


----------



## CannaCountry (Nov 18, 2018)

shimz said:


> Yes you have, it's not that obvious. Try this: weigh an amount of calcinit before and after warming to 200F for 30 minutes.


I would think anything holding moisture would lose weight after being in an oven. Does anyone know what the 'true' percentage of water content the Cal Nit is supposed to have? Dry Ca is very hygroscopic, and I suppose leaving it out uncovered for a prolonged amount of time would cause it to pull the water out of the ambient air. A test would be to fill a small container with Cal Nit and weigh it. Then leave said container of Cal Nit uncovered and weigh it each day to see if it gains weight. Long story short; proper storage is essential.


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## Skybound420 (Nov 18, 2018)

CannaCountry said:


> I would think anything holding moisture would lose weight after being in an oven. Does anyone know what the 'true' percentage of water content the Cal Nit is supposed to have? Dry Ca is very hygroscopic, and I suppose leaving it out uncovered for a prolonged amount of time would cause it to pull the water out of the ambient air. A test would be to fill a small container with Cal Nit and weigh it. Then leave said container of Cal Nit uncovered and weigh it each day to see if it gains weight. Long story short; proper storage is essential.


The point of baking the CalNite is to lose weight so that our measurements on the scale are more accurate. I forget who first raised the question, or which thread, but that guy noted that our doses are likely less accurate due to the added weight of absorbed water. So what my scale tells me is a gram, it doesn't know that maybe 25% of that is water leaving me only 75% cal nite. I think this makes for a better case to make concentrates, so the user doesn't have to bake the Cal Nite every week before weighing.


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## shawnery (Nov 18, 2018)

Sorry but I just started reading this,

What about the weight of epsom salts then?


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## Skybound420 (Nov 18, 2018)

IMO, all salts will leach moisture from the air if possible.


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## shawnery (Nov 18, 2018)

I know this is a Jack's thread but does anyone have experience with Masterblend 4-18-38, calnit and epsom salts or perhaps can help me with understanding what tweeks it needs. Below is a print out of the analysis.


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## im4satori (Nov 18, 2018)

even if the salts do hold a small amount of moisture its not enough to throw your weights off to a degree that it would cause a change worth noting


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## im4satori (Nov 18, 2018)

shawnery said:


> I know this is a Jack's thread but does anyone have experience with Masterblend 4-18-38, calnit and epsom salts or perhaps can help me with understanding what tweeks it needs. Below is a print out of the analysis.


that mix ratio will work for late bloom
youll want to bump the Mg to 50ppm or to half the Ca

this formula works well for late bloom but, it does have a very high level of P proportionately

and the mix ratio you have is fine but the overall EC is going to be about 25% to high so id recommend diluting it so the ratio looks the same but with lower numbers

for example

75 N
75 P
150 K
75 Ca
40 Mg

EC 1.3 or 1.4 im guessing

personally id not run N that low or P that high in early bloom but its good for late bloom


heres what id shoot for in early bloom

85 - 90 N
50 P +/- 20ppm
140 K
75 Ca
40 Mg


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## shawnery (Nov 18, 2018)

What do I need to do for veg because that's what I'm using at this moment


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## Skybound420 (Nov 18, 2018)

shawnery said:


> What do I need to do for veg because that's what I'm using at this moment


Here is Master Blend, Cal Nite and Epsom targeted for mid veg. I saw that you had a bunch of other stuff in your quiver and I started to add some, but Hydro Buddy doesn't have fields for things like cobalt and nickle, plus chasing down the Density of liquid nutes I find to be a PITA, so I just whipped up a veg mix for the 3 part. If you want more, or want to tweak, retweak, reretweak etc, you'll have to get Hydro Buddy, read my tutorial, input all the details your self and get to tweaking. To figure out Density, you have to divide the net weight in kg, by the number of ml in that bottle.



https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/making-your-own-nutrient-concentrates.455187/


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## im4satori (Nov 18, 2018)

shawnery said:


> What do I need to do for veg because that's what I'm using at this moment


for veg I personally run (at full strength)

N 117
P 50 (high for veg but ive got hard water and im adding in my ph adjustment)
K 132
Ca 80
Mg 40


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## Skybound420 (Nov 18, 2018)

FYI, the numbers with 0% gross error, I did not give targets. I just targeted N-P-K-Ca-Mg-S


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## jimihendrix1 (Nov 18, 2018)

shawnery said:


> I know this is a Jack's thread but does anyone have experience with Masterblend 4-18-38, calnit and epsom salts or perhaps can help me with understanding what tweeks it needs. Below is a print out of the analysis.



While we don't use 4-18-38 ( + Cal/Nitrate/Mg.... we use something quite close.
Chem Gro...4-20-39. Also with Calcium Nitrate, and Epsom Salts

While its my buddy doing the mixing, he uses Promix BX as a Medium.

But in the earliest stages he uses basically 10%-15% of recommended dose per 5 gallons water, and feed each watering. As the seedlings get bigger, PPM goes up.
Im pretty sure he starts with 1/2 tsp per 5 gallons water for base nutrients, and Cal/Nitrate. And 40% of a TSP Epsom Salts. Feed each watering.

Heres the Chem Gro schedule, but like I said he uses a modified version, as ours is Promix BX, and will hold more fertilizer salts vs many other Hydr Type Mediums, so to compensate, we give much less food, but more often.
Its also a myth plants flowering need LESS NITROGEN. Exact Opposite is true.

All Nitrogen to a plant, is Protein. Humans eat meat/fish, beans/rice to get protein, and we turn it into Nitrogen, so its totally illogical to think when your doing your fastest growth, its logical to limit Nitrogen.
In a 8 weeks flowering strain, Nitrogen is needed all the way until the 6thweeks, and then are only Slightly cut back. Thing is back in the 80s a myth started that Nitrogen in flower will fuck with flowering, of which it 100% WILL IF you give it to much, or out of balance. It can totally stop flowering, but its still crucil for bud development.

As is P/K/Mag, and they all also keep going up in PPM until weeks 6.

In weeks 3-4 MPK is added for 2 weeks only. They don't need MPK after week 4, but, the base formula does still slightly increase. But you miss the window if you don't concentrate on MPK in weeks 3-4 in an 8 weeks flowering strain.

In weeks 5-6, Magnesium is greatly increased. Weeks 7-8, its slightly backed off of everything.

These people have been making Plant Specific fertilizer since the 60s, and use Tissue Analysis for their determinations.

They also offer a Tissue Analysis option.

Heres the guide we use.

4-20-39 Recipe 2017


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## im4satori (Nov 18, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> Here is Master Blend, Cal Nite and Epsom targeted for mid veg. I saw that you had a bunch of other stuff in your quiver and I started to add some, but Hydro Buddy doesn't have fields for things like cobalt and nickle, plus chasing down the Density of liquid nutes I find to be a PITA, so I just whipped up a veg mix for the 3 part. If you want more, or want to tweak, retweak, reretweak etc, you'll have to get Hydro Buddy, read my tutorial, input all the details your self and get to tweaking. To figure out Density, you have to divide the net weight in kg, by the number of ml in that bottle.
> 
> View attachment 4235290
> 
> https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/making-your-own-nutrient-concentrates.455187/


try that again but raise the master blend up a pinch until the K is 135ppm and then lower the Calinte to bring the N back in range if needed


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## Skybound420 (Nov 18, 2018)

im4satori said:


> for veg I personally run (at full strength)
> 
> N 117
> P 50 (high for veg but ive got hard water and im adding in my ph adjustment)
> ...


Here's MB 3 part with these targets


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## Skybound420 (Nov 18, 2018)

By adding in the Dyno-Gro and other products you have, Hydro Buddy will be able to better refine everything to get you much closer to your targets. FWIW, as far as I know, the micro ranges I have for bloom can also be used for Veg if you want to target any of them. When I mix, aside from targeting Iron, I also target my Zinc to 0.2ppm, and the app figures out the best ratio of Jack's - GH Flora Micro (or whatever supplemental source of micros used).


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## shawnery (Nov 18, 2018)

Why is my calculator giving me slightly different numbers but close on most of it? My plan is to add 4g of masterblend, 16g of Cal/Nit and 14g of epsom salt. That will get me to the doses supplied on the analysis sheet below if I add the above to my 24/24/16 per 20gal already mixed. Is there something I'm missing or am I seeing this right?

Then my plan is to replace half the nutrient solution in my system with distilled(waiting for ro filters) to better match my ec to high pressure aeroponic and should be around 350 or so.


----------



## im4satori (Nov 18, 2018)

shawnery said:


> Why is my calculator giving me slightly different numbers but close on most of it? My plan is to add 4g of masterblend, 16g of Cal/Nit and 14g of epsom salt. That will get me to the doses supplied on the analysis sheet below if I add the above to my 24/24/16 per 20gal already mixed. Is there something I'm missing or am I seeing this right?
> 
> Then my plan is to replace half the nutrient solution in my system with distilled(waiting for ro filters) to better match my ec to high pressure aeroponic and should be around 350 or so.


I just checked the math
theres something wrong with that calculator your using


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## im4satori (Nov 18, 2018)

*veg*

4-18-38 mix 1.5 grams per gallon
calcium nitrate 1.75 grams per gallon
magnesium sulfate 1 grams per gallon
magnesium nitrate 1 gram per gallon
N 117
P 31
K 125
Ca 88
Mg 52

*early bloom*

4-18-38 mix 1.75 grams per gallon
calcium nitrate 1.75 grams per gallon
magnesium sulfate 1.5 grams per gallon

N 90
P 36
K 148
Ca 88
Mg 38

*late bloom*

4-18-38 mix 1.75 grams per gallon
calcium nitrate 1.4 grams per gallon
magnesium sulfate 1.5 grams per gallon

N 75
P 36
K 146
Ca 70
Mg 38


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## Skybound420 (Nov 19, 2018)

You can figure the ACTUAL amount of P by multiplying the label# by 0.44 and the K amount by 0.83.


----------



## shawnery (Nov 19, 2018)

Thanks!

I I got to redo my math, 

I HATE MATH!


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## Skybound420 (Nov 19, 2018)

shawnery said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I I got to redo my math,
> 
> I HATE MATH!



Download Hydro Buddy. It does all the math.


----------



## shawnery (Nov 19, 2018)

So I went by the veg numbers and added,

6g to 24g of fert to make 30g or 1.5g per gal for 20gal.
11g to 24g of calnit to make 35g or 1.75g per gal for 20gal.
4g to 16g of epsom to make 20g or 1g per gal for 20gal.

Ended with a 459ppm, .5 scale, which is still a bit on the high end for aero but atleast the percentages are better. Hopefully this will help with the purple branches and streaking on the stem.

Thanks guys!


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## im4satori (Nov 19, 2018)

shawnery said:


> So I went by the veg numbers and added,
> 
> 6g to 24g of fert to make 30g or 1.5g per gal for 20gal.
> 11g to 24g of calnit to make 35g or 1.75g per gal for 20gal.
> ...


I didn't follow or figure your math on the weights

but on the 459ppm on 5 scale

that's a conversion of EC 0.9 which is usually low for a full sized and or established plant in veg

id expect your magic number to be somewhere around EC1.2ish for aero

treat your reservoir with these rules and keep a daily log or journal so you can see the changes over a long time span

*EC goes up and or PH goes down = over feeding or root disease

EC goes down fast and ph goes up fast = under feeding

ideal;
EC goes down slowly and ph drifts up slowly over time*

the speed at which these changes take place are also directly related to your reservoir size... an under sized or over sized reservoir can be a big factor in how fast the reservoir changes


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## shawnery (Nov 19, 2018)

I've always believed and read is,

a perfect system will have a ph rise, water fall and ec flat.

Some people like to see the ec drop but I am not one of them. I like to see my ec stable and my ph rise while my water drops. In theory wouldn't you want your plant to drink and eat at the same rate?


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## im4satori (Nov 19, 2018)

shawnery said:


> I've always believed and read is,
> 
> a perfect system will have a ph rise, water fall and ec flat.
> 
> Some people like to see the ec drop but I am not one of them. I like to see my ec stable and my ph rise while my water drops. In theory wouldn't you want your plant to drink and eat at the same rate?


ok
that's about the same thing as what I said unless your splitting hairs lol


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## im4satori (Nov 19, 2018)

shawnery said:


> I've always believed and read is,
> 
> a perfect system will have a ph rise, water fall and ec flat.
> 
> Some people like to see the ec drop but I am not one of them. I like to see my ec stable and my ph rise while my water drops. In theory wouldn't you want your plant to drink and eat at the same rate?


that's absolutely fine

personally I prefer to see the slight and slow EC fall

that's just my preference because id rather slightly under feed than over feed

for me it feels like there is some grey area in the flat zone and imho theres nothing worse than over feeding even a little

but if I ran it a bit tighter or flat im sure it would be fine also....close enough lol


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## shawnery (Nov 28, 2018)

I should have put this here considering I started here initially.

I'm running the mix ratio for veg that @im4satori put up and if anything it seems I'm showing more signs of a cal/mag deficiency of some fashion.

What do you guys think?

The below pics are of the newest growth with clearest signs.


----------



## Skybound420 (Nov 28, 2018)

shawnery said:


> I should have put this here considering I started here initially.
> 
> I'm running the mix ratio for veg that @im4satori put up and if anything it seems I'm showing more signs of a cal/mag deficiency of some fashion.
> 
> ...


Exactly what numbers/ratios are you feeding? It might be more helpful to relate the photo to the feed.


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## shawnery (Nov 28, 2018)

Here are the numbers and ratios that were given to me by im4satori from hydrobuddy. I have been reading that there is some concern that LEDs can require the use of more cal and mag. If this is true, which I have resd some conveincing experiences, it could explain my symptoms.

*veg*

4-18-38 mix 1.5 grams per gallon
calcium nitrate 1.75 grams per gallon
magnesium sulfate 1 grams per gallon
N 117
P 31
K 125
Ca 88
Mg 52


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## Skybound420 (Nov 28, 2018)

Iron looks low on Hydro Buddy



Edit - magnesium looks very low as well.


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## shawnery (Nov 28, 2018)

I'm confused how to people give me calculations and they come up different.

How is it you and satori came up with different numbers?

Phuck!

I don't use a pc anymore just my phone and there is no hydrobuddy for the phone.


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## shawnery (Nov 28, 2018)

Should have just stuck with what I knew!


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## rkymtnman (Nov 28, 2018)

i'll ask again: how accurate is your scale? if you are doing dry weight measurements, i'd want something accurate to 0.01 grams

my 2 cents.


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## shawnery (Nov 28, 2018)

Scale is one issue I agree but its the same one I've been using with no issue. Will buy a better one just to be safe though.

As to the issue of two people stating the same dosages ending up with different nutrient ppms is a big problem in its own.

My dosages are either close as satori wrote or they're off as sky has stated.


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## rkymtnman (Nov 28, 2018)

shawnery said:


> As to the issue of two people stating the same dosages ending up with different nutrient ppms is a big problem in its own.


i found the problem:

skybound didn't have mag nitrate in his calculations. @im4satori has that and mag sulfate on the previous page


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## shawnery (Nov 28, 2018)

rkymtnman said:


> i found the problem:
> 
> skybound didn't have mag nitrate in his calculations. @im4satori has that and mag sulfate on the previous page


That's my fault, I thought it was a reprint by accident, i do not have or use mag nitrate, I see and thank you both. Sometimes I miss having a computer but this is the first time in a long while.

Would adding calimagic help or will that increase calcium to much?


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## Skybound420 (Nov 28, 2018)

To fix Mg, use 1.75g/Gal of Epsom instead of just 1gr. There are still concerns with low Iron though. This is why I was not a fan of Jack's 321 and opted to use as many other products as I'd need to afford myself the ability to produce the best possible regimen. It's more brain work (and the need for a computer), but my goal is to grow the best pot.


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## im4satori (Nov 29, 2018)

rkymtnman said:


> i found the problem:
> 
> skybound didn't have mag nitrate in his calculations. @im4satori has that and mag sulfate on the previous page


good catch

without the magnate the formula is imbalanced using those particular reagents and that's why his plants are N and Mg deg....


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## im4satori (Nov 29, 2018)

shawnery said:


> Should have just stuck with what I knew!


remind me what reagents you have so I can build you a mix without he magnate (if its possible)


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## Skybound420 (Nov 29, 2018)

All he referenced was master blend, cal nit and epsom.


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## shawnery (Nov 29, 2018)

If we can get it right with adding calimagic I canndo this and honestly already did. It's only going to matter till monday though when I get my mag nit on Monday. I added the calimagic before the post from sky. At the time I figured I'm going to switch it out soon anyways.

Thanks guys and sorry for misunderstanding!


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## im4satori (Nov 29, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> All he referenced was master blend, cal nit and epsom.


I no longer have the master belnd % info

anbody got it?


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## shawnery (Nov 29, 2018)

Here's the right one.


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## im4satori (Nov 29, 2018)

shawnery said:


> Here's the right one.


I cant make an acceptable veg mix using just the three reagents ... just too much calcium to get the N up!!

whats the % info on your calmag

N%
Ca%
Mg%

I doubt itll work but I will try


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## shawnery (Nov 29, 2018)

1%n
5%c
1.5%m
.1%i

I hate to waste your time considering I'm switching out on mon/tue but i find this very interesting.


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## Skybound420 (Nov 29, 2018)

im4satori said:


> I no longer have the master belnd % info
> 
> anbody got it?


Scroll down to and click on "Description".

https://customhydronutrients.com/master-blend-41838-tomato-special-1-pound-container-p-718.html?cPath=1_43_451&zenid=8b1d90e0ca56f94b05dc2b71a8c8abf2


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## Skybound420 (Nov 29, 2018)

This is the closest I can get with MB, calnit, magnit, epsom and calimagic.


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## shawnery (Nov 29, 2018)

No mag nit at the moment just calimagic, once i get the mag nit I shouldnt need anything else like calimaguc, right?

What would my final numbers be with this

4-18-38 mix 1.5 grams per gallon
calcium nitrate 1.75 grams per gallon
magnesium sulfate 1 grams per gallon
1ml per gal calimagic


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## Skybound420 (Nov 29, 2018)

Hydro Buddy chose to not even use calimagic and did it's best with MB, calnit and epsom.


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## shawnery (Nov 29, 2018)

You guys are simply awesome!


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## Skybound420 (Nov 29, 2018)

shawnery said:


> No mag nit at the moment just calimagic, once i get the mag nit I shouldnt need anything else like calimaguc, right?
> 
> What would my final numbers be with this
> 
> ...


Are you in the USA? Where can you order ferts from? Can ya share a link?

I've been beating my head the past few days in search of a micro formula, but to predict which will work best with our preferred part A is a lesson in futility and I'm wondering if it would just be better to build the entire fert line from chelated elements like nxsov does. This we can perfectly dial in the micros which would make it a lot easier to adjust the macros.


----------



## shawnery (Nov 29, 2018)

Everything I got I picked up from good old Amazon unfortunately.


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## Skybound420 (Nov 29, 2018)

shawnery said:


> Everything I got I picked up from good old Amazon unfortunately.


I tried mixing in varying components that I saw on Amazon and have in the app and nothing I could put together when using Master Blend worked all that well. I haven't tried the Peters Pro 5-11-26 yet, but it is in shipping now and will begin using it when I use up the last of my Jack's mix in a few more res changes. If you insist on sticking with the MB, I foresee a lot of headaches in your future, but if you'll switch to the 5-11-26, and also get the mag nite, MKP and STEM, the results are all generally very close to the desired targets of each. The same list minus mag nite also got fairly close, much closer than when tried with master blend.


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## Skybound420 (Nov 29, 2018)

I couldn't find STEM on Amazon, but I found MOST


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## Skybound420 (Nov 29, 2018)

Side note, when mixed 1 gram to 10ml of RO, that dose of 0.024 g/Gal would equate to 2.4ml/Gal when mixing which makes it easier to extract precise weights week to week.


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## shawnery (Nov 29, 2018)

Im4satori seems to be very close with his mix of,


*veg*

4-18-38 mix 1.5 grams per gallon
calcium nitrate 1.75 grams per gallon
magnesium sulfate 1 grams per gallon
magnesium nitrate 1 gram per gallon
N 117
P 31
K 125
Ca 88
Mg 52,


No, yes, seems so?


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## Skybound420 (Nov 29, 2018)

shawnery said:


> Im4satori seems to be very close with his mix of,
> 
> 
> *veg*
> ...


----------



## Skybound420 (Nov 29, 2018)

I use snipping tool in Windows, or print screen works too.

The numbers look good to me, but iron looks very low and I already suspect you have an iron deficiency from your pic yesterday. 1.2 might be ok for veg, but not bloom. Also, make sure the numbers in those stock solutions are the same as your product labels. They don't always agree. I've already deleted some so I don't confuse myself.


----------



## Skybound420 (Nov 29, 2018)

Except the boron which looks high, all of the other micros look deficient too.

Edit - these are the targets I gleaned from another thread and when compared with all of the other notes I've been taking, they look about spot on to me.

Fe 2.0
Zn 0.3
B 0.3
Mn 1.0
Cu 0.2
Mo .05


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## shawnery (Nov 29, 2018)

I'm not really getting this program. Is there a way to put in your grams of nutrients and then see the ppm outcome?

Basically doing it backwards. I would like to know what it looks like when they are used how masterblend says to.

Masterblend 12g 
Calnit 12g
Epsom 6g

Per 5 gallons.


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## Skybound420 (Nov 29, 2018)

then [X] out that page and on main page change the Calculation Type to "Concentrations from Weights".


----------



## Skybound420 (Nov 29, 2018)




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## shawnery (Nov 29, 2018)

Look at how crazy these numbers are for 5 gallons unless I screwed up again and look at what my last good grow looked like with these ratios.

Those numbers seem way off, why did my plants love it so much during veg but not so much in flower?


----------



## im4satori (Nov 30, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> Are you in the USA? Where can you order ferts from? Can ya share a link?
> 
> I've been beating my head the past few days in search of a micro formula, but to predict which will work best with our preferred part A is a lesson in futility and I'm wondering if it would just be better to build the entire fert line from chelated elements like nxsov does. This we can perfectly dial in the micros which would make it a lot easier to adjust the macros.


not chelated


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## Purpsmagurps (Nov 30, 2018)

first time seeing masterblend. cheaper than jacks for sure! 
and I do like the extra p and k vs N the original 321 was really N heavy and not enough P for me,
I'm thinking about just switching the formula to that at 2g. 
I always mixed the regular 321 in flower after caps 321 recipe for veg.


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## Skybound420 (Nov 30, 2018)

shawnery said:


> Look at how crazy these numbers are for 5 gallons unless I screwed up again and look at what my last good grow looked like with these ratios.
> 
> Those numbers seem way off, why did my plants love it so much during veg but not so much in flower?


I think you did something wrong because your P was over 100 in your readout. I just did your 12-12-6 with MB and the stock solutions and though a few of the numbers were high, the results all in range more or less.



Edit - ^That is for 5 gallons


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## Skybound420 (Nov 30, 2018)

im4satori said:


> not chelated


Why not chelated? When perusing available products, it seems most of the individual micros are chelated in the package.


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## shawnery (Nov 30, 2018)

Isn't mg way to low? It looks like it's less than 1/2 of the least required.

And I don't know how the hell my numbers were off so bad.


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## Skybound420 (Nov 30, 2018)

The numbers I have are 40-50ppm for both veg and bloom. 34 is low, but 6ppm less than the minimum.


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## Purpsmagurps (Nov 30, 2018)

30G over 5 gallons? you now I never went over 600ppm with jacks 321. how are you putting that much in and not burning? are you diluting into your res?


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## Purpsmagurps (Nov 30, 2018)

like, in the heat of flower not over 600ppm.


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## Purpsmagurps (Nov 30, 2018)

actually nvm im high. u gud fam


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## shawnery (Nov 30, 2018)

I figured out I had to switch p and k to the other option. Also my nutes are slightly different,

Epsom
S - 12.8
Mg - 9.7

Calnit
No3 - 15.5
Ca - 19

How's this looking? Been messing around with the dosages backwards. Switching out fluid as we speak. I know most people have a much busier life than I but I need an opinion soon.


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## Purpsmagurps (Nov 30, 2018)

looks a little low on mg if you are doing the 2-1 ca-mg ratio, some plants need more than that .


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## im4satori (Nov 30, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> Why not chelated? When perusing available products, it seems most of the individual micros are chelated in the package.


not all the chelated powders are compatible in a concentrate
hydro buddy wont even let you use some
I use Fe dtpa which might be considered chelate I cant recall....
I think you can get away with zinc and or Mn chelate but ive not had good luck with changing it up

personally I just prefer the Zn sulfate and Mn sulfate... for me they dissolve bteer in the concentrate

I ran my micro nutes 50/50 one time chelate/sulfate and it was fine but I didn't see any improvements over not using it that way

I know many nutes have chelates and advanced uses it as advertising but ive just not seen the need


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## Skybound420 (Nov 30, 2018)

im4satori said:


> not all the chelated powders are compatible in a concentrate
> hydro buddy wont even let you use some
> I use Fe dtpa which might be considered chelate I cant recall....
> I think you can get away with zinc and or Mn chelate but ive not had good luck with changing it up
> ...


When compiling Jack's with STEM, I find my Iron to land around 1.7 ppm which from my studies might lead to improper use of sulfur and P I think as well. I'd "like" to get that closer to your recommended 2 for peace of mind and wanted to shop for the Iron. I guess what I'm asking is should I not buy Iron that is chelated? I know in the STEM, 4 of the 6 trace elements are chelated, and Iron is one of the chelated, so I just assumed a little more of the same would fit right in.


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## Skybound420 (Nov 30, 2018)

shawnery said:


> I figured out I had to switch p and k to the other option. Also my nutes are slightly different,
> 
> Epsom
> S - 12.8
> ...



IMO, that mix looks REALLY good. The K looks a little high, but N and K being the most abundant, I presume the added few PPM will make no difference at all. All the micros look great too. If I were you, I'd stick with that one till you can expand your options with other products.


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## shawnery (Nov 30, 2018)

Awesome and thanks again everyone!


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## shawnery (Nov 30, 2018)

The numbers are kind of deceiving though since I mix it at 50% for high pressure aeroponics. I'm worried more about the ratios in relation to one another. Right now I'm amazingly right at 1.0ec which is exactly where I was with my old mix, coincidence.

Thanks again.


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## im4satori (Nov 30, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> When compiling Jack's with STEM, I find my Iron to land around 1.7 ppm which from my studies might lead to improper use of sulfur and P I think as well. I'd "like" to get that closer to your recommended 2 for peace of mind and wanted to shop for the Iron. I guess what I'm asking is should I not buy Iron that is chelated? I know in the STEM, 4 of the 6 trace elements are chelated, and Iron is one of the chelated, so I just assumed a little more of the same would fit right in.


I cant really recall exactly
ive had issues with getting chelates to fully dissolve in concentrates and did some reading on the subject but this was a long time ago so I don't recall enough... i just know some will work and some wont

i use iron dtpa and it goes in the same stock tank as the calcium nitrate ... but if using edta it may need to be in stock tank B ... im just not sure again i don't recall without looking it up in some reference... like i said much of this info ive read but don't have enough recall to speak on it intelligently or fully

i know ... some reagents are not compatible...


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## Skybound420 (Dec 1, 2018)

FWIW, I haven't mixed any of my products until the weekly res change and my concentrates are very diluted at 1 gram to 10ml, and everything now is in 9 different bottles. I have my eye on this Iron that turns out to be the same Iron you're using. Do you think it would be ok to mix into the STEM? 

https://customhydronutrients.com/sprint-chelated-iron-fertilizer-c-1_50_100.html?zenid=9c09ba135633c88b922336900a63ac21

Edit - scratch that, IDK WTF I was looking at, but after rereading the bottle, there's no chelates in it, so I'll just add more iron sulfate till I can get a 2 out of it.


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## shawnery (Dec 1, 2018)

Can't you just use fulvic acid for organic chelation instead of looking for nutrients that are chelated or am I missing something?


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## Skybound420 (Dec 1, 2018)

shawnery said:


> Can't you just use fulvic acid for organic chelation instead of looking for nutrients that are chelated or am I missing something?


When I started with the salts I was adding a fulvic/humic/kelp blend, but it would only stay suspended for about a day, then just settle on the bottom of the res. I now just use that in my compost teas.


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## im4satori (Dec 1, 2018)

shawnery said:


> Can't you just use fulvic acid for organic chelation instead of looking for nutrients that are chelated or am I missing something?


yes you can

but I don't because I don't like the scum the fulvic creates in my reservoir

if your mix is balanced you really don't need chelates.... I keep some around that I never use but it would be handy if every I needed a foliar spray of something specific for some reason or if I feel like experimenting

but mostly I just use the stem on rare occasion as a foliar and it works great


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## im4satori (Dec 1, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> FWIW, I haven't mixed any of my products until the weekly res change and my concentrates are very diluted at 1 gram to 10ml, and everything now is in 9 different bottles. I have my eye on this Iron that turns out to be the same Iron you're using. Do you think it would be ok to mix into the STEM?
> 
> https://customhydronutrients.com/sprint-chelated-iron-fertilizer-c-1_50_100.html?zenid=9c09ba135633c88b922336900a63ac21
> 
> Edit - scratch that, IDK WTF I was looking at, but after rereading the bottle, there's no chelates in it, so I'll just add more iron sulfate till I can get a 2 out of it.


I use the dtpa and it goes in the stock tank with calcium nitrate

if my memory serves I believe that's the correct and only way to use it in concentrate

again I don't want to speak out of turn but I think at least one of the other types of iron can be used in the sulfur stock tank and I want to say its iron edta but im not positive
again..its been a while since I refereshed my memory on reagents im not really using or haven't used in over a decade but for what its worth that should give you enough info to research it or just use the dtpa in the calcium stock side like I do

if your bent on adding it to the sulfur tank you may look into the other options...but I seem to also remember something about iron edta not being as safe to handle....but again I could be recalling incorrectly


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## im4satori (Dec 1, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> When I started with the salts I was adding a fulvic/humic/kelp blend, but it would only stay suspended for about a day, then just settle on the bottom of the res. I now just use that in my compost teas.


humic acid isn't water soluble it is for soil

I know I know
recently humic acid has been advertised and sold for hydro!!! it shouldn't be!!

fulvic acid and kelp are fine and if not over used will be soluble...but I don't use organic materials as a preference because I like to see my reservoir crystal clear without the scum and foam the organic additives will leave

so for that reason I don't bother with fulvic and I foliar feed kelp on rare occasions


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## Skybound420 (Dec 1, 2018)

They must've saw me coming as they say. Kelp4Less advertises it as water soluble. I found that out the hard way and no longer use it except in my compost tea. This is actually a lesson I learned the hard way years back about mixing synthetic nutes with organic nutes when I tried supplementing calimagic for CaMg+ which is General Organic's calmag. That shit hardly dissolved and left me with snot everywhere.

I think I'll just go with Iron Sulfate and stay clear of the chelated stuff. Looking at the label for Jack's, I can see where I got the idea for chelated metals, yet the STEM is all sulfates. I find that I need to up STEM's iron contents from 7.5% to 11%. Do you think you can help me figure out the math? I also must relive the PH nightmare from a few weeks back regarding my insistence to use silica. I grabbed some Potassium Silicate and hole shit that stuff is highly base. When using GH silica, I only needed to add minimal amounts of PH down, and usually not till 2 days after initial mix. With Potassium Silicate, it requires 1.5ml/Gal of PH down right from the start.

Fulvic-Humic-Kelp-Blend

Potassium Silicate


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## im4satori (Dec 1, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> They must've saw me coming as they say. Kelp4Less advertises it as water soluble. I found that out the hard way and no longer use it except in my compost tea. This is actually a lesson I learned the hard way years back about mixing synthetic nutes with organic nutes when I tried supplementing calimagic for CaMg+ which is General Organic's calmag. That shit hardly dissolved and left me with snot everywhere.
> 
> I think I'll just go with Iron Sulfate and stay clear of the chelated stuff. Looking at the label for Jack's, I can see where I got the idea for chelated metals, yet the STEM is all sulfates. I find that I need to up STEM's iron contents from 7.5% to 11%. Do you think you can help me figure out the math? I also must relive the PH nightmare from a few weeks back regarding my insistence to use silica. I grabbed some Potassium Silicate and hole shit that stuff is highly base. When using GH silica, I only needed to add minimal amounts of PH down, and usually not till 2 days after initial mix. With Potassium Silicate, it requires 1.5ml/Gal of PH down right from the start.
> 
> ...


I really think you should just use the stem at 0.1 grams per gallon and call it good


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## Skybound420 (Dec 2, 2018)

im4satori said:


> I really think you should just use the stem at 0.1 grams per gallon and call it good


As it is now, all doses are 0.043 grams per gallon, .1 would be astronomically more. Maybe I can bump it up to an even 0.05 though?


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## im4satori (Dec 2, 2018)

Skybound420 said:


> As it is now, all doses are 0.043 grams per gallon, .1 would be astronomically more. Maybe I can bump it up to an even 0.05 though?


puts the iron at 2ppm

used it for years with no problem and many people have been using it for years

im currently using it on veg for my direct addition veg reservoir

I been using it for well over a decade

your doing great and you learn fast but don't over complicate things


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## Skybound420 (Dec 3, 2018)

"over-complicate" is my middle name!


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## shawnery (Dec 3, 2018)

Thanks again!

I didn't think leaves changes for the better but the younger leaves are certainly showing more green. Everything else is as it was and old nute damage. My plants went from eating very little to ravenously consuming 200ppm in 3 days at the same ec level as with the old mix.


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## shawnery (Dec 10, 2018)

Since all this info is here.

Any chance one of you would double check my figures? I'd rather admit I doubt my understanding of the app and my tendency to get things wrong then screw my girls.

KoolBloom,
N-2.0%
P2o5-45%
K2o-28%
Mg-1.0%
S-1.5%

Last grow I just used the same mix the entire grow and it did pretty well so I'm not sure of when to switch. Do I switch to bloom nutes the minute I switch or wait till the stretch is done?


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## Skybound420 (Dec 10, 2018)

I lost all of my saved solutions when trying to edit the program files in an editor, so I had to reinstall, but didn't add any GH back in. Generally speaking though, when adding a custom solution, just transfer the percentages from the label into the respective fields in the app, but ensure to select P2O5 and K2O from the drop down menus, and the app will convert each respectively. This rule also applies to SiO2 if using silica. If the product label lists the contents as P, K or Si, then leave the drop downs alone, but if listed as P2O5, K2O or SiO2, then the drop downs are needed.


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## cleverpiggy (Jan 5, 2019)

Does anyone have an opinion about switching from Dyna Bloom to Jacks 321 3 weeks into bloom. I am thinking probably not a good idea, why create trouble when all is going fine.


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## Skybound420 (Jan 5, 2019)

cleverpiggy said:


> Does anyone have an opinion about switching from Dyna Bloom to Jacks 321 3 weeks into bloom. I am thinking probably not a good idea, why create trouble when all is going fine.


I see no problem switching things mid way. I've done it several times with various components as I switched over to mixing my own concentrates.


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## thenasty1 (Jan 5, 2019)

cleverpiggy said:


> Does anyone have an opinion about switching from Dyna Bloom to Jacks 321 3 weeks into bloom. I am thinking probably not a good idea, why create trouble when all is going fine.


ive switched mid flower without issue
but if you are not out of your current nutes, and things are going well, id just let it ride and start the new stuff next run


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## Skybound420 (Jan 6, 2019)

If you learn how to use Hydro Buddy, you can input all of the percentages listed on your bottles (except AN) and use Hydro Buddy to create a new feed chart with your existing nutes and create the same type of numbers you'd get from Jack's 321 or any other recipe. They all use the same materials, except with the Jack's you're cutting out the buying of water, but since you already bought it, might as well keep using it till you have all the other salts and stuff. Shortly after starting with the salts, I found myself including certain liquids from my reserves of GH. I used GH Flora Micro as a micro amendment for a while till I got STEM, also used Armor Si for a while till I bought Potassium Silicate. I also stopped using Jack's and went with Peter's Pro 5-11-26 as that's easier for me to order. Ordering from Jack's directly is sketchy b/c their packaging has Jack's Hydroponic Nutrients stickered all over the box. When I got it, I was like WTF bro??? I'm not learning that lesson twice, but I was fortunate that Custom Hydro sells the Peters.

https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/making-your-own-nutrient-concentrates.455187/


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## Gno702 (Oct 2, 2019)

firsttimeARE said:


> I do 2.4g Jack's, 1.6g CaNO3 and don't use Epsom (my plants never miss it)
> 
> In mid flowering I've been reducing CaNO3 levels
> 
> I incorporate MKP from weeks 2-5. Then potassium sulfate I've been using to increase terps and bulk later flower. From weeks 6 and on.


Question for you are you still running Jack's hydro ?? And are you still putting the mkp in ? And at how much are you putting in grams per gallon ?
I'm running at 3.6 Jack's 
2.4 cal nit 
1.2 Epsom 
I'm at day30 anyways curious when to switch was thinking of running 
2 g of Jack's 
2 g cal nit 
2 g Epsom 
1.2 m. K. P 
.5 most trace 
Anu help would greatly appreciated


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## icetech (Oct 7, 2019)

Just curious if someone could post a pic of their roots with jacks? or tell me if their roots are bright white or slightly tan? My plants are healthy and i don't see anything bad in the roots/buckets but the roots are a bit off white and not bright white, i'm not sure if it's the jacks staining them or if i have a issue that just hasn't kicked in fully yet. 

P.S. I run sterile with H2O2.. are there any root boosters that work with jacks in a sterile setup? or just stay with jacks alone like i have?


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## Ryante55 (Oct 7, 2019)

icetech said:


> Just curious if someone could post a pic of their roots with jacks? or tell me if their roots are bright white or slightly tan? My plants are healthy and i don't see anything bad in the roots/buckets but the roots are a bit off white and not bright white, i'm not sure if it's the jacks staining them or if i have a issue that just hasn't kicked in fully yet.
> 
> P.S. I run sterile with H2O2.. are there any root boosters that work with jacks in a sterile setup? or just stay with jacks alone like i have?


When I use Jack's I use microbes for a feeding or 2 then I do a feeding with hydrogen peroxide then back to the microbes so I basically try to sterilize like twice a month. I run in coco with autopots so I don't ever look at my roots


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## icetech (Oct 7, 2019)

Ryante55 said:


> When I use Jack's I use microbes for a feeding or 2 then I do a feeding with hydrogen peroxide then back to the microbes so I basically try to sterilize like twice a month. I run in coco with autopots so I don't ever look at my roots


 Ah thanks, yeah i'm using H202 and no microbes. plants are happy just wondering bout the coloring.. i'm sure it's fine


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## Ryante55 (Oct 7, 2019)

icetech said:


> Ah thanks, yeah i'm using H202 and no microbes. plants are happy just wondering bout the coloring.. i'm sure it's fine


Microbes seem to keep the plants healthier in late flower in my experience I've always had yellowing earlier without the microbes. But if your doing dwc its probably different


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## CannaCountry (Oct 8, 2019)

Gno702 said:


> Question for you are you still running Jack's hydro ?? And are you still putting the mkp in ? And at how much are you putting in grams per gallon ?
> I'm running at 3.6 Jack's
> 2.4 cal nit
> 1.2 Epsom
> ...


At more than 4 weeks in, I would be careful adding new fangled approaches. I would have made this switch earlier on, by running it the first 2-3 weeks and then going back to your standard 3.2.1 ratio. Consider what your plant is trying to do and the why behind it...steady goes the course friend.


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## Renfro (Oct 9, 2019)

Gno702 said:


> Question for you are you still running Jack's hydro ?? And are you still putting the mkp in ? And at how much are you putting in grams per gallon ?
> I'm running at 3.6 Jack's
> 2.4 cal nit
> 1.2 Epsom
> ...


So I ran the numbers and here is what I got

Here is your current jacks mix:


Here is the proposed mix:



I'm liking it. That added phosphorous should give you better yields.


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## arctic farmer (Oct 9, 2019)

hmmm, Why don't my number match yours - I'm running v2.04 of your spreadsheet. Even for 321 (3.6,2.4,1.1) the numbers are different.





Thank you for building this ss - it is really helpful


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## Skybound420 (Oct 9, 2019)

Here's some charts I did with Hydro Buddy.


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## icetech (Oct 9, 2019)

Arctic, just curious.. from your chart it looks like you are running jacks 1-1-1 not 3-2-1? why is that? And did you actually notice a difference by adding phos?


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## arctic farmer (Oct 9, 2019)

Well, I was just putting in numbers from the above post - ie; jacks at 2-2-2 and MKP 1.2 and Most at .5, it should have looked like @Renfro 's*?*

I use basic 3.6-2.4-1.1 until about week 2 then I want to drop the N, and maybe increase the P but I'm not sure how yet. I get some N tip burning and curl even at low rates when I drop down to something like 2-1-1 but then the Ca is to low also not to mention the P.

My interest is a way to increase the P and drop the N (maybe with N <60PPM) from Jacks 3.6-2.4-1.1 after week 2.5.

does that make sense?


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## icetech (Oct 9, 2019)

arctic farmer said:


> Well, I was just putting in numbers from the above post - ie; jacks at 2-2-2 and MKP 1.2 and Most at .5, it should have looked like @Renfro 's*?*
> 
> I use basic 3.6-2.4-1.1 until about week 2 then I want to drop the N, and maybe increase the P but I'm not sure how yet. I get some N tip burning and curl even at low rates when I drop down to something like 2-1-1 but then the Ca is to low also not to mention the P.
> 
> ...


Makes sense.. i was just wondering., i'm too lazy for all of that.. i run 3g-2g-1g and end up around 800ppm from start to finish.. cause easy  i found 3.4g a bit hot for dwc (which is what i use)


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## TintEastwood (Oct 9, 2019)

Here's some Jacks nute profiles. Some I copied from interwebs and put into a view what works for me.

Disclamer: I qualify, possible errors, for sure not as accurate as @Renfro ppm calc tool. Always open to constructive.





My first Jacks run - headed into week 8 with these cocktails on tap.


So you know. Below are values for a single (1) gram/ml as I entered them. (!common for ME to have errors in N type calcs)


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## arctic farmer (Oct 10, 2019)

I'm in coco, 3gal and three watering a day in late flower. Do you get burning and such after week 2? Mostly its gg#4 and blue dream, both need more ca and less N. I've gone as low as 550 (my water is 130ppm .500 scale) but then ca is really short.


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## arctic farmer (Oct 10, 2019)

TintEastwood said:


> Here's some Jacks nute profiles. Some I copied from interwebs and put into a view what works for me.
> 
> Disclamer: I qualify, possible errors, for sure not as accurate as @Renfro ppm calc tool. Always open to constructive.
> ...


Nice, Thanks!

You guys do much prettier spreadsheets than I..


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## Gno702 (Oct 10, 2019)

TintEastwood said:


> Here's some Jacks nute profiles. Some I copied from interwebs and put into a view what works for me.
> 
> Disclamer: I qualify, possible errors, for sure not as accurate as @Renfro ppm calc tool. Always open to constructive.
> 
> ...


Question boss ? What formula are you running exactly for bloom? are you switching it up any time in bloom any speific weeks?


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## Gno702 (Oct 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So I ran the numbers and here is what I got
> 
> Here is your current jacks mix:
> View attachment 4405493
> ...


Bro lo in the thread you started getting lots of info and feed back good looking out on this


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## Gno702 (Oct 10, 2019)

arctic farmer said:


> Well, I was just putting in numbers from the above post - ie; jacks at 2-2-2 and MKP 1.2 and Most at .5, it should have looked like @Renfro 's*?*
> 
> I use basic 3.6-2.4-1.1 until about week 2 then I want to drop the N, and maybe increase the P but I'm not sure how yet. I get some N tip burning and curl even at low rates when I drop down to something like 2-1-1 but then the Ca is to low also not to mention the P.
> 
> ...


Could you just add a water soluable phosphorus


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## icetech (Oct 11, 2019)

BTW.. since we are talking jacks.. anyone got any tricks to get it to dissolve faster? I grind all 3 elements in a coffee grinder to turn them more into dust. but still takes awhile.


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## TintEastwood (Oct 11, 2019)

Gno702 said:


> Question boss ? What formula are you running exactly for bloom? are you switching it up any time in bloom any speific weeks?


I'm using the week 8 mix posted above. Still learning.


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## TintEastwood (Oct 11, 2019)

icetech said:


> BTW.. since we are talking jacks.. anyone got any tricks to get it to dissolve faster? I grind all 3 elements in a coffee grinder to turn them more into dust. but still takes awhile.


My only trick is to get it dissolved before I need it. Hours to days ahead of time.

I fill a mason jar 3/4 full and stir in the Part A then set is aside.

In a different jar I do the same with Part B cal-nit.

I use 2 sets of mason jars.

And I cheat a lil with a magnetic stirrer from Amazon at times.


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## icetech (Oct 11, 2019)

TintEastwood said:


> My only trick is to get it dissolved before I need it. Hours to days ahead of time.
> 
> I fill a mason jar 3/4 full and stir in the Part A then set is aside.
> 
> ...



well... i should have just thought of that  I am bad at planning ahead.


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## Ryante55 (Oct 11, 2019)

icetech said:


> BTW.. since we are talking jacks.. anyone got any tricks to get it to dissolve faster? I grind all 3 elements in a coffee grinder to turn them more into dust. but still takes awhile.


You are dissolving in the correct order right? Hydro then Epsom then nitrate? Using warm water helps but isn't necessary


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## thenasty1 (Oct 11, 2019)

icetech said:


> BTW.. since we are talking jacks.. anyone got any tricks to get it to dissolve faster? I grind all 3 elements in a coffee grinder to turn them more into dust. but still takes awhile.


i use a drill with a long mixing bit, it gets the job done reasonably quickly


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## icetech (Oct 11, 2019)

Ryante55 said:


> You are dissolving in the correct order right? Hydro then Epsom then nitrate? Using warm water helps but isn't necessary


 yeah.. only took a couple of months to learn to not mix them in the 3-2-1 order no more lumps at least now though.


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## icetech (Oct 11, 2019)

thenasty1 said:


> i use a drill with a long mixing bit, it gets the job done reasonably quickly


I might have to try that thanks.


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## Ryante55 (Oct 11, 2019)

icetech said:


> yeah.. only took a couple of months to learn to not mix them in the 3-2-1 order no more lumps at least now though.


Haha yeah I did the same thing in the beginning the only thing that doesn't mix well for me is the Epsom so I dissolve that in hot water


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## thenasty1 (Oct 11, 2019)

icetech said:


> I might have to try that thanks.


psa- 2 gallons of water in a 5 gallon bucket is plenty for mixing, any more and you may end up sloshing half your nutes onto the floor


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## arctic farmer (Oct 11, 2019)

icetech said:


> BTW.. since we are talking jacks.. anyone got any tricks to get it to dissolve faster? I grind all 3 elements in a coffee grinder to turn them more into dust. but still takes awhile.


 I mix 198 grams in 5 gals of warm water with 66 grams of Epsom- goes pretty quick? Why are you grinding it? Did it get wet? The Cal-nit gets it own 5 gal bucket and they are both poured into a 55 gal drum with 45 gals of water.


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## TintEastwood (Oct 11, 2019)

arctic farmer said:


> I mix 198 grams in 5 gals of warm water with 66 grams of Epsom- goes pretty quick? Why are you grinding it? Did it get wet? The Cal-nit gets it own 5 gal bucket and they are both poured into a 55 gal drum with 45 gals of water.


Should have noted I'm only mixing for 7 to 15 gallons at a pop.

If I had a big boy res, I would be using 5gal buckets vs mason jars like you are doing.


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## 2com (Oct 11, 2019)

TintEastwood said:


> My only trick is to get it dissolved before I need it. Hours to days ahead of time.
> 
> I fill a mason jar 3/4 full and stir in the Part A then set is aside.
> 
> ...


I was trying to think exactly how you use it the other day. I guessed right.


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## 2com (Oct 11, 2019)

TintEastwood said:


> Should have noted I'm only mixing for 7 to 15 gallons at a pop.
> 
> If I had a big boy res, I would be using 5gal buckets vs mason jars like you are doing.


5Gal buckets with a mixing pump at the bottom?


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## TintEastwood (Oct 11, 2019)

2com said:


> 5Gal buckets with a mixing pump at the bottom?


Then I would want 2 mixing pumps. Lol


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## 2com (Oct 11, 2019)

Ryante55 said:


> You are dissolving in the correct order right? Hydro then Epsom then nitrate? Using warm water helps but isn't necessary


Really? I would've probably assume epsom last. Thanks for that. Haha.


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## icetech (Oct 11, 2019)

arctic farmer said:


> I mix 198 grams in 5 gals of warm water with 66 grams of Epsom- goes pretty quick? Why are you grinding it? Did it get wet? The Cal-nit gets it own 5 gal bucket and they are both poured into a 55 gal drum with 45 gals of water.


 I grind it cause the mag and cal are pretty big pellets for lack of a better term.. so i try to turn it into dust which helped speed up dissolving


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## arctic farmer (Oct 11, 2019)

my point was I mix at x concentration and temperature, and it mixes pretty quick, less than 30 minutes. 

Epsom can be mixed in the same bucket with Jacks, not the Cal-Nit.



icetech said:


> I grind it cause the mag and cal are pretty big pellets for lack of a better term.. so i try to turn it into dust which helped speed up dissolving


Jacks? That sounds like Mega Crop?


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## 2com (Oct 11, 2019)

arctic farmer said:


> my point was I mix at x concentration and temperature, and it mixes pretty quick, less than 30 minutes.
> 
> Epsom can be mixed in the same bucket with Jacks, not the Cal-Nit.
> 
> ...


I've found Megacrop (v1) dissolves extremely quickly. Maybe completely dissolved in..20-30 seconds.
I didn't know about this, Jacks taking so long to dissolve. Good to know.


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## arctic farmer (Oct 11, 2019)

Jacks is a lot faster than MC


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## TintEastwood (Oct 11, 2019)

arctic farmer said:


> Jacks is a lot faster than MC


Agreed.
I've used MC V1 and V2. Have V2.1 on shelf for future.
First time using Jacks.
Compared to MC, Jacks weighs, and dissolves easier. (RO water)

Jacks being a 2-part, no worry about ratio of powder ("part-a") to balls (cal-nit).

All that aside, I do like both, and look forward to seeing which works better for my grow.
Always pros and cons.


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## Ryante55 (Oct 11, 2019)

2com said:


> I've found Megacrop (v1) dissolves extremely quickly. Maybe completely dissolved in..20-30 seconds.
> I didn't know about this, Jacks taking so long to dissolve. Good to know.


Yeah same for me


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## 2com (Oct 11, 2019)

arctic farmer said:


> I mix 198 grams in 5 gals of warm water with 66 grams of Epsom- goes pretty quick?


We're not using warm water.



arctic farmer said:


> my point was I mix at x concentration and temperature, and it mixes pretty quick, less than 30 minutes.
> 
> Epsom can be mixed in the same bucket with Jacks, not the Cal-Nit.


Your jack mix take "less than" 30 minutes to dissolve, in warm water? What's that mean then, 20 minutes, being generous?



arctic farmer said:


> Jacks is a lot faster than MC


...What? You're not making sense, or I misunderstood you. I said above MC V1 takes about 20-30 seconds (max) to completely dissolve, and that's in cool-to-ambient temp. water.

You've said you mix Jacks in warm water (purposefully warm water to aid in dissolving) and it takes "less than" 30 minutes.

I just don't follow you reasoning there.
Edit: I mentioned how long I've found that MC takes to dissolve because, I think, somewhere back earlier, someone said something about 30mins to an hour. I think Tinteastwood, maybe.


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## 2com (Oct 12, 2019)

TintEastwood said:


> Agreed.
> I've used MC V1 and V2. Have V2.1 on shelf for future.
> First time using Jacks.
> Compared to MC, Jacks weighs, and dissolves easier. (RO water)
> ...


Greenleaf has said they have plans to release a new "2 part". It'll be a part A with all the good stuff like megacrop has now, and then a Calnit - basically. Something like that. As soon as the end of the year. Sounds more ideal in my opinion than a 1 part.


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## Skybound420 (Oct 12, 2019)

TintEastwood said:


> Agreed.
> I've used MC V1 and V2. Have V2.1 on shelf for future.
> First time using Jacks.
> Compared to MC, Jacks weighs, and dissolves easier. (RO water)
> ...


This is why I often tell growers to just buy salts as you can make EVERY nute line on the market so long as it has a Guaranteed Analysis. With that GA, you can program all of those products in Hydro Buddy, set the prescribed dose for each, and calculate the results. For instance, I recently began running Megacrop Vegan (5g/Gal) with CalMag (5ml/Gal), except I did not purchase Megacrop or Calmag, I merely typed in the same elemental ppm targets and Hydro Buddy tells me how much of each salt I need to make that formulation. A few months after starting this thread, I chased down some really good info and shared it on 420. I mix my own chelated micro nutrient concentrates as well as all of the macros and secondaries into concentrates as well. I used to use Gypsum, but I had to keep that as a powder until use, but thankfully to make Megacrop, I no longer need the Gypsum or Epsom salt. Here's my thread on 420 on how to use Hydro Buddy, plus all the other shit I learned.

https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/making-your-own-nutrient-concentrates.455187/


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## TintEastwood (Oct 12, 2019)

Skybound420 said:


> This is why I often tell growers to just buy salts as you can make EVERY nute line on the market so long as it has a Guaranteed Analysis. With that GA, you can program all of those products in Hydro Buddy, set the prescribed dose for each, and calculate the results. For instance, I recently began running Megacrop Vegan (5g/Gal) with CalMag (5ml/Gal), except I did not purchase Megacrop or Calmag, I merely typed in the same elemental ppm targets and Hydro Buddy tells me how much of each salt I need to make that formulation. A few months after starting this thread, I chased down some really good info and shared it on 420. I mix my own chelated micro nutrient concentrates as well as all of the macros and secondaries into concentrates as well. I used to use Gypsum, but I had to keep that as a powder until use, but thankfully to make Megacrop, I no longer need the Gypsum or Epsom salt. Here's my thread on 420 on how to use Hydro Buddy, plus all the other shit I learned.
> 
> https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/making-your-own-nutrient-concentrates.455187/


I'm with ya on this. 
Except for the micro nutrients, no desire to chelate my own.

Excellent hydro buddy primer. I've enjoyed it in the past. And will probaby revisit next time I get the urge.


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## 2com (Oct 12, 2019)

Skybound420 said:


> This is why I often tell growers to just buy salts as you can make EVERY nute line on the market so long as it has a Guaranteed Analysis. With that GA, you can program all of those products in Hydro Buddy, set the prescribed dose for each, and calculate the results. For instance, I recently began running Megacrop Vegan (5g/Gal) with CalMag (5ml/Gal), except I did not purchase Megacrop or Calmag, I merely typed in the same elemental ppm targets and Hydro Buddy tells me how much of each salt I need to make that formulation. A few months after starting this thread, I chased down some really good info and shared it on 420. I mix my own chelated micro nutrient concentrates as well as all of the macros and secondaries into concentrates as well. I used to use Gypsum, but I had to keep that as a powder until use, but thankfully to make Megacrop, I no longer need the Gypsum or Epsom salt. Here's my thread on 420 on how to use Hydro Buddy, plus all the other shit I learned.
> 
> https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/making-your-own-nutrient-concentrates.455187/


I'm gonna have to try real hard to not delve into that 420 thread. I don't have the time, what are you trying to do to me!?
Anyway - _*thank you*_ so much for the hydrobuddy how to. I had a quick poke at the program but couldn't sort it out before I had to run. Plus I don't really use windows. But I'll be reading that and give it another go soon.

Thanks.
(Edit: Also, you're grounded!)


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## 2com (Oct 12, 2019)

TintEastwood said:


> I'm with ya on this.
> Except for the micro nutrients, no desire to chelate my own.
> 
> Excellent hydro buddy primer. I've enjoyed it in the past. And will probaby revisit next time I get the urge.


Hydrobuddy only does what these spreadsheet calculators do...right? Just wanted to make sure.


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## TintEastwood (Oct 12, 2019)

2com said:


> Hydrobuddy only does what these spreadsheet calculators do...right? Just wanted to make sure.


Well, my spreadsheet is home grown, just a collection of numbers for products I use, from places like Greenleaf, Angelfire calc, hydro buddy, @Renfro etc......fancied up to work for me. Since I go back to Lotus 123, I forgot more than I can remember about spreadsheets. 

I was just dicking around with a Jacks clone using MC.


Want some Magphos to play with.


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## Renfro (Oct 12, 2019)

TintEastwood said:


> Well, my spreadsheet is home grown, just a collection of numbers for products I use, from places like Greenleaf, Angelfire calc, hydro buddy, @Renfro etc......fancied up to work for me. Since I go back to Lotus 123, I forgot more than I can remember about spreadsheets.
> 
> I was just dicking around with a Jacks clone using MC.
> View attachment 4407376


I remember MS Spreadsheet for my old Apple II. lol Came in that cool smokey grey plastic box. Man it would seem so primitive now.


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## 2com (Oct 12, 2019)

TintEastwood said:


> Well, my spreadsheet is home grown, just a collection of numbers for products I use, from places like Greenleaf, Angelfire calc, hydro buddy, @Renfro etc......fancied up to work for me. Since I go back to Lotus 123, I forgot more than I can remember about spreadsheets.
> 
> I was just dicking around with a Jacks clone using MC.
> View attachment 4407376
> ...


I bet you were doing this at the same time as I was, the other day, lol.

I decided to have a second (eighteenth) look, and rewatched/read a couple things, compared profiles. I don't know why I was so focused on that 100-100-200-60 profile - I liked that it had plenty of P though.
Anyway, I looked at jacks and noticed it's not even that high in P compared to, say, megacrop at all...

When I enter the info you have there in your spreadsheet into RenfroCal v2.04 (lol), I get this:

CalculatedElemental PPMNitrogen (N)124.4Phosphorous (P)47.3Potassium (K)198.7Calcium115.5Magnesium79.6Silicon0.9Sulfur101.2Chlorine0.0Sodium0.0Iron2.3Molybdenum0.1Zinc0.7Manganese0.9Boron0.3Copper0.5Cobalt0.0

I duno why this table is so damn huge...


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## Skybound420 (Oct 15, 2019)

TintEastwood said:


> I'm with ya on this.
> Except for the micro nutrients, no desire to chelate my own.
> 
> Excellent hydro buddy primer. I've enjoyed it in the past. And will probaby revisit next time I get the urge.


I don't chelate micros, I buy them already chelated. I can then mix them to GH's Flora Micro formulation, or Jack's/JRPeter's micro formulation, my own formulation, Megacrop's micro formulation, but the concept is the same as macros. IME, a micro regimen remains constant throughout the grow and it is only the macros that are adjusted, if at all. When you mix your own micro concentrate, you are completely free to target your macros with great precision. I achieve my macro targets 100% of the time, but only because I first did the same to the micros and whipped up a half gallon of concentrate that itself will make me 500 gallons of reservoir. FWIW, I'm now running Megacrop Vegan with Calmag, except I didn't buy either, I just used all my own salts that I buy for a fraction of the cost of any one nutrient line. No bullshit, you buy one gallon each of GH 3 part with all supplements, and my salts cost less, I have 100% control, and they'll produce more nutrients than the 1 gal of GH, a LOT more.

In my 420 thread, there is a Bill of Materials on the top of page 3 and all products listed comes to under $200 before shipping from the midwest including all needed chelated micros and enough macros to last a year more or less. For comparrison, I use 40 gals a week. I started out with Jack's, I made this thread, and my growth can be tracked on this site as it is here wher I learned, mostly from @im4satori and @nxsov180db though I took it to the furthest extent I could. I wasted a lot of money searching for the cheapest most workable products and 99% of it comes from Custom Hydro Nutrients. I have plenty of products that I will not use, like the rest of Jacks and Peters, plus all of the metallic sulfates are trash unless I score me a farm one day.

If you're gonna go with Jack's or Megacrop, it don't matter, with salts you can try them both and still have the option to try other things. Its a no brainer IMO.


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## Skybound420 (Oct 15, 2019)

Hydro Buddy and spreadsheets are both programmed to handle the various math problems to calculate elemental ppm. IMO, the spreadsheets have the potential for unlimited functionality, yet Hydro Buddy was created by a skilled botanist. His lack of coding skills is evident in the way his app is laid out, but I do trust his math, plus it has a nice big database with common reagents already recorded as well as a plethora of formulations already programmed, but still there is a limited number of elements considered, so the app is restricted in that regard. It's a tradeoff either way.


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## Gno702 (Oct 16, 2019)

2com said:


> I bet you were doing this at the same time as I was, the other day, lol.
> 
> I decided to have a second (eighteenth) look, and rewatched/read a couple things, compared profiles. I don't know why I was so focused on that 100-100-200-60 profile - I liked that it had plenty of P though.
> Anyway, I looked at jacks and noticed it's not even that high in P compared to, say, megacrop at all...
> ...


If you dont mind me asking at what strength are you using Jack's hydro


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## Renfro (Oct 16, 2019)

One thing that could be done when adding a PK booster is simply add it and then cut the mix with water if the PPM is higher than desired.


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## 2com (Oct 16, 2019)

Gno702 said:


> If you dont mind me asking at what strength are you using Jack's hydro


Me? I'm not.


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## 2com (Oct 16, 2019)

Skybound420 said:


> I don't chelate micros, I buy them already chelated. I can then mix them to GH's Flora Micro formulation, or Jack's/JRPeter's micro formulation, my own formulation, Megacrop's micro formulation, but the concept is the same as macros. IME, a micro regimen remains constant throughout the grow and it is only the macros that are adjusted, if at all. When you mix your own micro concentrate, you are completely free to target your macros with great precision. I achieve my macro targets 100% of the time, but only because I first did the same to the micros and whipped up a half gallon of concentrate that itself will make me 500 gallons of reservoir. FWIW, I'm now running Megacrop Vegan with Calmag, except I didn't buy either, I just used all my own salts that I buy for a fraction of the cost of any one nutrient line. No bullshit, you buy one gallon each of GH 3 part with all supplements, and my salts cost less, I have 100% control, and they'll produce more nutrients than the 1 gal of GH, a LOT more.
> 
> In my 420 thread, there is a Bill of Materials on the top of page 3 and all products listed comes to under $200 before shipping from the midwest including all needed chelated micros and enough macros to last a year more or less. For comparrison, I use 40 gals a week. I started out with Jack's, I made this thread, and my growth can be tracked on this site as it is here wher I learned, mostly from @im4satori and @nxsov180db though I took it to the furthest extent I could. I wasted a lot of money searching for the cheapest most workable products and 99% of it comes from Custom Hydro Nutrients. I have plenty of products that I will not use, like the rest of Jacks and Peters, plus all of the metallic sulfates are trash unless I score me a farm one day.
> 
> If you're gonna go with Jack's or Megacrop, it don't matter, with salts you can try them both and still have the option to try other things. Its a no brainer IMO.


Do you mix in all the extra ("bio stimulants") that mega crop has in it when you make that/have made that in the past? It must be crazy all the bags of stuff, lol. Chitosan and everything?


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## 2com (Oct 16, 2019)

Renfro said:


> One thing that could be done when adding a PK booster is simply add it and then cut the mix with water if the PPM is higher than desired.


One of the things I'd never thought of until recently about cutting the base (for example MC) is that you also cut all the micros.


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## Skybound420 (Oct 16, 2019)

2com said:


> Do you mix in all the extra ("bio stimulants") that mega crop has in it when you make that/have made that in the past? It must be crazy all the bags of stuff, lol. Chitosan and everything?


No, though Custom Hydro sells most of those biostimulants as well, but that's another topic. All I add outside of the salts is a soluble blend of fulvic, humic, kelp that I get from Kelp4Less. FWIW, I also use foliar sprays, and I add triacontanol @ 5-25ppm every other spray.


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## Renfro (Oct 16, 2019)

2com said:


> One of the things I'd never thought of until recently about cutting the base (for example MC) is that you also cut all the micros.


Yeah, one could add a pinch of MOST to get those.


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## 2com (Oct 16, 2019)

Skybound420 said:


> No, though Custom Hydro sells most of those biostimulants as well, but that's another topic. All I add outside of the salts is a soluble blend of *fulvic, humic, kelp that I get from Kelp4Less*. FWIW, I also use foliar sprays, and I add triacontanol @ 5-25ppm every other spray.


Same, lol. Plus their yucca and amino.
I don't think CH sells to canada, so they don't exist.


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## 2com (Oct 16, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah, one could add a pinch of MOST to get those.


That's what I'd been thinking. Cool.
Man, I didn't even realize it was you. New avatar/icon.


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## Skybound420 (Oct 16, 2019)

2com said:


> Same, lol. Plus their yucca and amino.
> I don't think CH sells to canada, so they don't exist.


I used to use the Aminos too but found my plants slowed down their grow speed. Now I only use the AA in my foliars.

I'm following a Canadian that's in the same boat as you, unable to track down good materials up there and getting murdered with shipping charges from CHN. You can track down certain salts up there, but ultimately you're going to either have to bite the bullet and pay the insane shipping charges to get the materials, or keep buying branded nutes. IMO, your best bet is to just get Megacrop Vegan and either Greenway Calmag, or Botanicare calmag if you don't mind buying water, but both have the same formulation except one is wet, the other dry. Those 2 products alone will set every grower straight. I am very impressed with my reformulation of MC with CM.


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## Skybound420 (Oct 16, 2019)

I used STEM which is the same as MOST, and both suck IMO. Best bet is to buy chelated micros and mix your own blends.


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## Renfro (Oct 16, 2019)

Skybound420 said:


> I used STEM which is the same as MOST, and both suck IMO. Best bet is to buy chelated micros and mix your own blends.


Can you elaborate what it is about those products that you dislike?


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## Skybound420 (Oct 16, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Can you elaborate what it is about those products that you dislike?


They're made from sulfates which means you can't mix them into concentrates which means you have to weigh out your needs each week which involves a dust mask at least. I favor going through all of that once to make a liquid concentrate.

Also, if you desire to change the formulation, you can't. It's either add more or add less, but no tweaking. Having all of the micros individually enable you to control how much is added and thus you control the blend.


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## Renfro (Oct 16, 2019)

Skybound420 said:


> They're made from sulfates which means you can't mix them into concentrates which means you have to weigh out your needs each week which involves a dust mask at least. I favor going through all of that once to make a liquid concentrate.
> 
> Also, if you desire to change the formulation, you can't. It's either add more or add less, but no tweaking. Having all of the micros individually enable you to control how much is added and thus you control the blend.


Makes sense. You have a list of the micros you like to use?


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## 2com (Oct 16, 2019)

Skybound420 said:


> I used to use the Aminos too but found my plants slowed down their grow speed. Now I only use the AA in my foliars.
> 
> I'm following a Canadian that's in the same boat as you, unable to track down good materials up there and getting murdered with shipping charges from CHN. You can track down certain salts up there, but ultimately you're going to either have to bite the bullet and pay the insane shipping charges to get the materials, or keep buying branded nutes. IMO, your best bet is to just get Megacrop Vegan and either Greenway Calmag, or Botanicare calmag if you don't mind buying water, but both have the same formulation except one is wet, the other dry. Those 2 products alone will set every grower straight. I am very impressed with my reformulation of MC with CM.


Thanks. Yea, I just double checked; shipping insane at CHN.
Ever used/hear of this (I'm sure you have) "Polyphosphate" 5-31-40 stuff? CHN has some interesting phosphorus products, and other stuff.
When you call it Megacrop Vegan, you mean Megacrop.. V2.5 or the current formula stuff?
Did I ask what sort of nutrient profile, or targets are you aiming for or do you like?
-When you mix kelp/fulvic/humic/(amino) what ratio do you mix them at?


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## Skybound420 (Oct 24, 2019)

2com said:


> Thanks. Yea, I just double checked; shipping insane at CHN.
> Ever used/hear of this (I'm sure you have) "Polyphosphate" 5-31-40 stuff? CHN has some interesting phosphorus products, and other stuff.
> When you call it Megacrop Vegan, you mean Megacrop.. V2.5 or the current formula stuff?
> Did I ask what sort of nutrient profile, or targets are you aiming for or do you like?
> -When you mix kelp/fulvic/humic/(amino) what ratio do you mix them at?


No, never heard of Polyphos....
Megacrop's 3rd formula is called Vegan (9-6-17), and if you calculate 5grams of the MCV plus 5ml of Botanicare Calmag, those results are what I set my targets to and my plants love it.
I mix the fulvic/humic blend according to instructions, 1/4 TSP/Gal. The amino is the same, though I halve that dose to not go down a familiar road.



The first one is Em Dog, both of the pair are Pineapple Chunk. The plants in croutons eat emulated Megacrop Vegan. The soil plant, I'm experimenting with reverse engineering high brix soil.


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## Skybound420 (Oct 24, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Makes sense. You have a list of the micros you like to use?


In my 420 tutorial, on the top of page 3 is a Bil Of Materials with links to everything, but generally it's 

Boric Acid 
Sodium Molybdate
Iron DTPA 
Manganese EDTA
Zinc EDTA
Copper EDTA
Sodium Benzoate (preservative that prevents an algae outbreak in the micro concentrates)

With those, I can make ANY micro nutrient formula, and once you have a micro concentrate, hitting your macro targets is flawless. So then it's like 2 different regimens, micros and the other shit. Sulfur doesn't matter at all, just not below 25, but beyond that, it's only your NPK, Ca & Mg. Those are easy to target once the micros have been worked out.


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## Skybound420 (Oct 24, 2019)

Here's what I make now. FYI, for every gallon I make, I add 3.8ml of micro concentrate per gallon. When I work out my micros, I no longer consider them in hydro buddy.



And here's one where I tried to resolve the above targets, but using only the GH 3 part. It came fairly close, but the point is to demonstrate how to make Megacrop with GH.


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## Skybound420 (Oct 24, 2019)




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## 2com (Oct 31, 2019)

Skybound420 said:


> Megacrop's 3rd formula is called Vegan (9-6-17)


Interesting, I've never heard it called that (megacrop "vegan"). 9-6-17 is not what they say their *current* formulation is though. I checked and they have a thread on og forums as well. That's the npk from one of the oldest packaging though. I don't even want to get into their labeling and nonsense though. It's a bit of a farce. Haha.


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## Dougs Nugs (Nov 3, 2019)

Hey Eveeyone great stuff here, i’m a Mac guy and can’t find hydro buddy that’s MAC compatible. any suggestions for a work around?

Many thanks 

Best

Doug


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## TintEastwood (Nov 3, 2019)

Dougs Nugs said:


> Hey Eveeyone great stuff here, i’m a Mac guy and can’t find hydro buddy that’s MAC compatible. any suggestions for a work around?
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> ...


They have some MAC notes on this page... Hope it helps.






HydroBuddy v1.80 : The First Free Open Source Hydroponic Nutrient Calculator Program Available Online – Science in Hydroponics







scienceinhydroponics.com





Dang. Involves compiling the source code.
Flashback to the 80's when I was compiling COBOL programs on mainframes.


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## Renfro (Nov 4, 2019)

Dougs Nugs said:


> any suggestions for a work around?


Grab a cheap used PC off craigslist.


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## NeWcS (Nov 4, 2019)

Can't you run a virtual box on a mac?


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## Skybound420 (Nov 5, 2019)

2com said:


> Interesting, I've never heard it called that (megacrop "vegan"). 9-6-17 is not what they say their *current* formulation is though. I checked and they have a thread on og forums as well. That's the npk from one of the oldest packaging though. I don't even want to get into their labeling and nonsense though. It's a bit of a farce. Haha.


It's kinda hard for me to ignore the word right there, but if it's helpful, we can just call it their 3rd formulation.


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## Skybound420 (Nov 5, 2019)

Dougs Nugs said:


> Hey Eveeyone great stuff here, i’m a Mac guy and can’t find hydro buddy that’s MAC compatible. any suggestions for a work around?
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> ...


As far as I know, Hydro Buddy only runs on Windows or Linux, so if the Mac is all you have, you'll either need to install a "virtual machine" app on Mac and then run Windows on the VM, then you could use Hydro Buddy. Otherwise you could use the Excel Spreadsheets, but those, you'll have to individually validate the values of everything, as well as all related math associated with counting up elemental ppm which itself is not all that difficult. It's just tedious as the math does a lot of decimal calcs, but you you'll run into a lot of situations where you need to track down the density of liquid nutes or purity of solid nutes.

Me personally, I would take the VM route, install Windows on it, then use Hydro Buddy as everything was already structured properly by the creator (Daniel Fernandez).


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## arctic farmer (Nov 5, 2019)

I've been using this guy for individual products on a smaller scale (like 1lb bags) purchases.






Dry Fertilizer - Individual Fertilizer - NilocG Aquatics







nilocg.com





I started with planted tanks but its all the same stuff.


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## Skybound420 (Nov 5, 2019)

arctic farmer said:


> I've been using this guy for individual products on a smaller scale (like 1lb bags) purchases.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a good start, though their products are extremely limited, so the potential is equally as limited. If you live in the lower 48, I'm hard pressed to find another distributor other than CustomHydroNutrients.com that has as extensive of a selection of plant food at such a cheap price per weight. Where CHN really hurts is their shipping charges. They are more than the materials being bought. Shipping fees aside, CHN has not only all of my hydro salts, but a shit ton of natural amendments for soil such as Planters II and Soil Menders Minerals Plus. Aside from peat moss, perlite and worm castings, I can get everything else needed to make high brix soil from CHN.


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## TintEastwood (Nov 5, 2019)

Skybound420 said:


> That's a good start, though their products are extremely limited, so the potential is equally as limited. If you live in the lower 48, I'm hard pressed to find another distributor other than CustomHydroNutrients.com that has as extensive of a selection of plant food at such a cheap price per weight. Where CHN really hurts is their shipping charges. They are more than the materials being bought. Shipping fees aside, CHN has not only all of my hydro salts, but a shit ton of natural amendments for soil such as Planters II and Soil Menders Minerals Plus. Aside from peat moss, perlite and worm castings, I can get everything else needed to make high brix soil from CHN.


I hear ya. Ordered some magphos and haifa cal-nit for my xmas stocking. Lucky me, the shipping was only half the cost of the salts I ordered. 
Worth it.


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## Dougs Nugs (Nov 5, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Grab a cheap used PC off craigslist.


well found a funny workaround, asked work for a PC for a home machine...

We are good to go!

Happy Growing

Doug


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