# Scrog help



## ligrow (Jan 21, 2016)

Hi RIU,

Im using 4*4 tent
two 5 Gal bucket DWC with two plant
one 400 MH one 600 HM 18/6

Last week I just got them into scrog net.
As in picture you can see. I think my plant is too short. Do I need to lower the screen? put light higher to let them stretch (cool hood14.5" above the screen)? I might need another month for fill the screen right? Really dont want wait another month for veg. Whats the most efficiency way to veg? BTW do I need that much watt of light in Veg?
Any feedback will help. thanks in advance


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## THCBrain (Jan 21, 2016)

Just keep going as you are your plants will soon fill the screen, just keep an eye on your roots, once they start going bad it will cripple you (it did me) leave your net at the height it's at and don't forget when you flip them over they'll fill your net even more good luck!


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## THCBrain (Jan 21, 2016)

I have previously used a 400watt hps to veg, it's quicker than using cfls but temps are a bugger if you don't run the hps with a cool tube/hood I'm currently vegging under a 200 watt cfl 4 individual cfls that mount to another 100 watt then a little cheap led panel next week I'll hopefully have a mars hydro in there aswell


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## ligrow (Jan 21, 2016)

THCBrain said:


> Just keep going as you are your plants will soon fill the screen, just keep an eye on your roots, once they start going bad it will cripple you (it did me) leave your net at the height it's at and don't forget when you flip them over they'll fill your net even more good luck!


Thanks for your feedback!
I know I fill more after flip. It stretch a lot!
What about the light distance? Do I need to put it higher? As a lot of lower branches seems need to be cut. I don't think they gonna make it over the net in a week or so. That's why I'm thinking if I should lower the net.


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## ligrow (Jan 21, 2016)

THCBrain said:


> I have previously used a 400watt hps to veg, it's quicker than using cfls but temps are a bugger if you don't run the hps with a cool tube/hood I'm currently vegging under a 200 watt cfl 4 individual cfls that mount to another 100 watt then a little cheap led panel next week I'll hopefully have a mars hydro in there aswell


How big is your grow space? Do u think single 400 or 600watt mh would be good enough for veg? I'm planning to flip in the end of the month. So I was hoping if they can grow faster under 400 and 600watt mh. Anyway do you think they can fill the net in the end of the month?

I can feel that CFL grow much slower than hps. Just got a 4 feet t5 set for 8 tubes in clone and early veg tent. Don't see much grow since I change it from 400mh, but it's good for clone tho. Let me know what you think about Mars hydro. I want to switch to led so bad. But not sure about the results and heard a lot of crippy shit in the market. So I choose hps and mh for safety...


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## ligrow (Feb 13, 2016)

Hi guys,
Im into 13days after flip. This is what they look right now. Im wondering if I am doing it right. compare with other scrog picture, I think they are kind of short.
I keep fit them to screen after flip. Am i on the right track?
any feedback and input are welcome
thanks!


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## verticalgrow (Feb 13, 2016)

ligrow said:


> Hi guys,
> Im into 13days after flip. This is what they look right now. Im wondering if I am doing it right. compare with other scrog picture, I think they are kind of short.
> I keep fit them to screen after flip. Am i on the right track?
> any feedback and input are welcome
> thanks!


g'day ligrow,

Plants are growing well but you could prune some of the thin inner branches to allow more light to get in
to the main colas.

 VG


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## ligrow (Feb 13, 2016)

verticalgrow said:


> g'day ligrow,
> 
> Plants are growing well but you could prune some of the thin inner branches to allow more light to get in
> to the main colas.
> ...


Good day Verticalgrow,
Thanks for the feedback

I did cut some lower branch when I flip and last few day too. It almost two weeks 12/12 do you think I should still train them? Or I just cut the thin branches and let it grow without fit them into screen?

Wondering when is the best time to cut thin branches without shocking them?


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## verticalgrow (Feb 13, 2016)

ligrow said:


> Good day Verticalgrow,
> Thanks for the feedback
> 
> I did cut some lower branch when I flip and last few day too. It almost two weeks 12/12 do you think I should still train them? Or I just cut the thin branches and let it grow without fit them into screen?
> ...


keep training until theres no more gaps in the net.
Also cut the thin inner branches asap as it will let the main branches get bigger, theres no shock


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## ligrow (Feb 13, 2016)

verticalgrow said:


> keep training until theres no more gaps in the net.
> Also cut the thin inner branches asap as it will let the main branches get bigger, theres no shock


I'm not sure how much will they grow, since it's almost two weeks after flip.
What I worried about is more branches I fit into screen more lower need to be cut off.
Do you think I should cut everything lower then net right now?

Much appreciate for your feedback


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## verticalgrow (Feb 13, 2016)

ligrow said:


> I'm not sure how much will they grow, since it's almost two weeks after flip.
> What I worried about is more branches I fit into screen more lower need to be cut off.
> Do you think I should cut everything lower then net right now?
> 
> Much appreciate for your feedback


Not yet cuz light penetrates thru to the bottom leaves


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## ligrow (Feb 13, 2016)

verticalgrow said:


> Not yet cuz light penetrates thru to the bottom leaves


Good day Verticalgrow

Thanks for your feedback again!

I will keep training them to fit the screen as much as possible.
so when do I cut the lower branches? wait for another week until they are not stretching? 

This is my third time runing with scrog net setup. I think there should have something I miss.
I can not train them like what you guys do, with all the tops almost look with the same size fit into each screen.
only the first top bud getting big enough. lower buds which is also above the net can not grow big.
Sorry for lots of dummy questions if its annoyed. I wlll keep it update when in third week after flip
Much appreciated with your feedback


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## verticalgrow (Feb 14, 2016)

ligrow said:


> Good day Verticalgrow
> 
> Thanks for your feedback again!
> 
> ...


g'day ligrow,
u can lolli-pop plants 2-3 weeks after flipping


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## ligrow (Feb 15, 2016)

verticalgrow said:


> g'day ligrow,
> u can lolli-pop plants 2-3 weeks after flipping


Thanks for the video.
I did loli-pop them when veg and when I flip 12/12
Seems like it's not enough. I cut some this afternoon. Don't sure how much more it's gonna grow. I will cut all the branches under the net in day 21. Change to 2 600watt hps. (600watt 400watt mh right now)

Much appreciated


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## Anon Emaus (Feb 15, 2016)

I'd suggest lowering the net next time if you are going for a shorter veg, it will help you begin training much sooner so you can fill the screen much quicker(hence flip to 12/12 sooner). I ran with a 4" height because I want the shortest veg possible as well, I was able to fill the net pretty quickly and now have a very nice even canopy. After the flower stretch I'm left with it being a little higher than expected over the net but really doesn't matter because my goal is to just have an even canopy with tons of bud sites, goal accomplished...


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## budolskie (Feb 16, 2016)

I'm 10 days into flower also on my first scrog




I plan on just filling holes now and trimming everything below net


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## ligrow (Feb 16, 2016)

Anon Emaus said:


> I'd suggest lowering the net next time if you are going for a shorter veg, it will help you begin training much sooner so you can fill the screen much quicker(hence flip to 12/12 sooner). I ran with a 4" height because I want the shortest veg possible as well, I was able to fill the net pretty quickly and now have a very nice even canopy. After the flower stretch I'm left with it being a little higher than expected over the net but really doesn't matter because my goal is to just have an even canopy with tons of bud sites, goal accomplished...


I wanted to set the net lower when I veg them, but the room between net and bucket was too close. I can not have enough room do the res. change. Next time I might Veg them higher or change my setup
When do you stop train them?im in 16 days, im afraid its not gonna stretch enough for the main colas, im I doing fine or if there is anything I can do to fix it?

Much appreciated with your feedback

I just read your grow journal, do you cut off all the small branches and only leave the main colas for the top?
Isn't it a little too high for scrog? can be harvest good on lower site? 
No disrespect, just trying to learn this technique right. correct me if im wrong.



budolskie said:


> I'm 10 days into flower also on my first scrog
> 
> 
> I plan on just filling holes now and trimming everything below net


Nice setup! is it a 4 by 4 setup? whats the light you use?
Good luck with your grow


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## budolskie (Feb 16, 2016)

3x3 my closet with a 600hps a 6in extraction


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## ligrow (Feb 16, 2016)

budolskie said:


> 3x3 my closet with a 600hps a 6in extraction


 you can update your grow, maybe we can learn something while exchange experienced


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## budolskie (Feb 16, 2016)

I m8 a keep u updated


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## ligrow (Feb 16, 2016)

Day 16 after 12/12


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## Anon Emaus (Feb 16, 2016)

ligrow said:


> I wanted to set the net lower when I veg them, but the room between net and bucket was too close. I can not have enough room do the res. change. Next time I might Veg them higher or change my setup
> When do you stop train them?im in 16 days, im afraid its not gonna stretch enough for the main colas, im I doing fine or if there is anything I can do to fix it?
> 
> Much appreciated with your feedback
> ...


You could attached the net to the bucket lid/net pot like i do. Stop training either when the net is full or when about 2 weeks into flower since you'll be able to take advantage of flower stretch. Once you get first sign of female like hairs appearing it will really start stretching so you have time. 

I don't cut any bud sites above the net. I let them grow up and become part of the canopy. I do cut the lil straglers under the net that will never amount to anything and just waste energy. Not sure what you mean, do you mean how mine stretched so high above the net? If so then yeah thats technically a bit high for a proper scrog but it worked for what I wanted and needed, basically just wanted a nice even spread out canopy. I didn't factor that much stretch in, could raise my net a bit next time but then again i liked it low so i could start training sooner, so idk. This is my first scrog so i'm still learning, really just gotta find what works best for your space to maximize it.


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## Anon Emaus (Feb 16, 2016)

ligrow said:


> Day 16 after 12/12


Looking good, keep it up! Do you see signs of flower yet? Little hairs at armpits or pistils on bud heads?


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## ligrow (Feb 16, 2016)

Just got their close look. Is it consider sign of flower you mentioned?
*
You could attached the net to the bucket lid/net pot like i do*
How do you actually raise or lower your net when its attach on bucket？ Thats a really nice net btw.

*
Stop training either when the net is full or when about 2 weeks into flower since you'll be able to take advantage of flower stretch. Once you get first sign of female like hairs appearing it will really start stretching so you have time. *
Really!? I thought I stretching most at 1-3 week, and when see flow signs they stop.
Do you have think I should stop train by now let them grow vertical at this point?
into day 17 by the way.

*Not sure what you mean, do you mean how mine stretched so high above the net?*
Yes, I was wondering how lower side can get enough light when they have that much branches cover.
This is not my first time grow, I think I still not getting the point of scrog technique.
Hope I can have better result this run.


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## Anon Emaus (Feb 16, 2016)

ligrow said:


> Just got their close look. Is it consider sign of flower you mentioned?
> *
> You could attached the net to the bucket lid/net pot like i do*
> How do you actually raise or lower your net when its attach on bucket？ Thats a really nice net btw.
> ...


It's attached to the lid so to get to the res you just lift the lid and everything goes with it. I followed this DIY: https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-dwc-5-gallon-scrog.510210/

My current grow was at the net when it first showed signs of flower, that was Feb 1st, it has grown 18" since. I think for scrog you want like 8" so yeah i'm quite tall. I'd keep training if I was you if you havnt seen signs of flower yet. 

Yeah my lower growth won't get a ton of light, i do have a 42w cfl to rotate around and help provide some side lighting but that not really much. Anything not worthy looking down low I rid of but not really too much, i got the majority of bud sites high enough.


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## ligrow (Feb 17, 2016)

Anon Emaus said:


> It's attached to the lid so to get to the res you just lift the lid and everything goes with it. I followed this DIY: https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-dwc-5-gallon-scrog.510210/
> 
> My current grow was at the net when it first showed signs of flower, that was Feb 1st, it has grown 18" since. I think for scrog you want like 8" so yeah i'm quite tall. I'd keep training if I was you if you havnt seen signs of flower yet.
> 
> Yeah my lower growth won't get a ton of light, i do have a 42w cfl to rotate around and help provide some side lighting but that not really much. Anything not worthy looking down low I rid of but not really too much, i got the majority of bud sites high enough.


Really nice thanks for the link!
Im kind of tired making scog net( lazy haha...) i saw some net from some site, its for grow some plants that needs to climb like tomato or something. Wonder if I can just attach on the PVC tube.

I think mine have some flower signs after I compare with your grow
Im going to change them to HPS ASAP

I got you now. I have saw some grow with two layer net. I thought you were doing some kind of training like that.
Dont know how it works with two layer also

Thanks for your input!!


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## Anon Emaus (Feb 17, 2016)

ligrow said:


> Really nice thanks for the link!
> Im kind of tired making scog net( lazy haha...) i saw some net from some site, its for grow some plants that needs to climb like tomato or something. Wonder if I can just attach on the PVC tube.
> 
> I think mine have some flower signs after I compare with your grow
> ...


Looking closer at that pic it looks like you have pistils so she probably showed maybe a week ago. 
Yeah I'm lazy as shit too haha the worst part was i had a shitty old hand saw to cut the pvc and then threading the net with yarn through the holes took a lot longer than expect haha

Yeah a two layer would have really been my best bet, that would work nicely, train early and train later.


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## ligrow (Feb 17, 2016)

Anon Emaus said:


> Looking closer at that pic it looks like you have pistils so she probably showed maybe a week ago.
> Yeah I'm lazy as shit too haha the worst part was i had a shitty old hand saw to cut the pvc and then threading the net with yarn through the holes took a lot longer than expect haha
> 
> Yeah a two layer would have really been my best bet, that would work nicely, train early and train later.


So i probably should stop training a week ago, isnt it?
from now, I just change to HPS and no training? do I cut the lower that under the net right now?

Yes it really took longer than expect...hope I can get one just attach on each side of the tent for my next grow.

btw whats the proper EC range for me right now? now its 0.6 Isnt it too low?
I have order koolbloom both liquid and powder( early and late flowering stage)
but it probably take 10-15 days to get here. Do you think thats too late for using liquid koolbloom for extra push?


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## Anon Emaus (Feb 17, 2016)

ligrow said:


> So i probably should stop training a week ago, isnt it?
> from now, I just change to HPS and no training? do I cut the lower that under the net right now?
> 
> Yes it really took longer than expect...hope I can get one just attach on each side of the tent for my next grow.
> ...


Let me first define what I'd say "Flowering" start is. I wouldn't consider it beginning the moment you turn to 12/12 because I have had a grow take 4-5 days after 12/12 to show signs of female and the current one take 18-19 days. Thats a big difference, so I just figure "Flower" starting when I first see signs of female, ie: hairs at elbows and obviously pistils appearing. 

Most scrog tutorials will say to continuing tucking 2-3 weeks into flower. With a final result goal being 6-8" above the net. Now of course every grow is different so you gotta dial your own grow in and of course one strain will be different from the next but let's just take mine for example. In 2 weeks of flower mine grew 18" high(it's still going but slowly now), so if I wanted 6-8" above I should have continued tucking(of course I didn't have room to though so i could have technically raised my net or whatever) for a little over a week. Now that's nothing for you to really go by though since you have different light, strain and so on so you'll just have to use this grow as your test and I would say to follow what the tutorials mostly say as its probably the best general advice and tuck for about 2-3 weeks into flower. Just continue letting them grow 3" up, then tuck under, if growth slows a lot then you can always bring them back to a closer hole that will allow it to go back to being higher above the net for the desired result. Just monitor the stretch and make some educated assumptions on when you should stop tucking, no real solid answer.

You could switch to HPS now, the MH will help reduce some stretch though and I've read a lot of folks continuing MH for a couple weeks in flower for that reason. I switched to HPS sooner than I will in the future because I had expected mine to flower sooner like my past grows. Yeah if you see some straglers under the net that will never amount to anything then just rid of them now. Be careful when removing anything in that you only want to do a small amount at a time and give it a break in between, too much to fast will stress the plant and stunt/slow growth, stress can also just domino other issues so take care. 

I couldn't tell ya what the proper EC is for your plant, your plant can tell you though. To explain, in DWC you should measure your EC at the time of applying nutrients. A few days later you should measure the EC again. If the EC rises you have too much nutes because the plant is drinking more water than it is taking in nutrients. If EC lowers you have too little nutes because it is uptaking more nutes than it is water. I aim to get that EC to stay right about the same, of course nothing is perfect so you will have some fluctuation so I would say to be happy with a tiny lowering and not have any rising. That way you aren't overferting and aren't technically underferting since its such a small drop and with a 5 gal you'll feed again soon. 

I can't advise on those nutes, I never used anything other than the gh flora series and now with my current grow i'm only using FloraNova Bloom as my only nutrient source. I never researched anything on anything else either so couldn't help or say anything about em.


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## budolskie (Feb 17, 2016)

Be a good week before I stop pulling under net no pistols yet


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## ligrow (Feb 17, 2016)

Anon Emaus said:


> Let me first define what I'd say "Flowering" start is. I wouldn't consider it beginning the moment you turn to 12/12 because I have had a grow take 4-5 days after 12/12 to show signs of female and the current one take 18-19 days. Thats a big difference, so I just figure "Flower" starting when I first see signs of female, ie: hairs at elbows and obviously pistils appearing.
> 
> Most scrog tutorials will say to continuing tucking 2-3 weeks into flower. With a final result goal being 6-8" above the net. Now of course every grow is different so you gotta dial your own grow in and of course one strain will be different from the next but let's just take mine for example. In 2 weeks of flower mine grew 18" high(it's still going but slowly now), so if I wanted 6-8" above I should have continued tucking(of course I didn't have room to though so i could have technically raised my net or whatever) for a little over a week. Now that's nothing for you to really go by though since you have different light, strain and so on so you'll just have to use this grow as your test and I would say to follow what the tutorials mostly say as its probably the best general advice and tuck for about 2-3 weeks into flower. Just continue letting them grow 3" up, then tuck under, if growth slows a lot then you can always bring them back to a closer hole that will allow it to go back to being higher above the net for the desired result. Just monitor the stretch and make some educated assumptions on when you should stop tucking, no real solid answer.
> 
> ...


thanks for you input with that much detail.

If you grow it tall, why not setup another layer net?
*
no real solid answer. *
I guess this is why people say experience is priceless 

I just switch to HPS tonight. Will have my picture update shortly.
whats the benfit for have MH lights long when flowering?
I heard people switch back MH at last two weeks. Have you ever heard of that?

For my current tent I am flowering its Kosher kush. For hydro grow, I saw people go over 2.0 when flowering.
Im using GH flora with micro and Bloom now. I just raise my EC to 1.1 and correct my PH 5.8
When I have it with 0.5 0.6 EC. EC didnt drop, does that mean they have enough?

Do you use any bloom nutes with extra push? or just base nutrients from clone to harvest?

Have a nice day


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## ligrow (Feb 17, 2016)

Quick update
into day 18 flowering.
Just switch to HPS tonight.
Also raise EC from 0.6 to 1.1
Correct my PH from 6.2 to 5.8

too bad have my duct tube broken. gotta get another one for hook up with carbon filter


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## ligrow (Feb 17, 2016)

budolskie said:


> Be a good week before I stop pulling under net no pistols yet View attachment 3610420


Nice It looks like you dont have much branches below the net. which is what I want them to be train like


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## Anon Emaus (Feb 17, 2016)

ligrow said:


> thanks for you input with that much detail.
> 
> If you grow it tall, why not setup another layer net?
> *
> ...


Welcome. Yeah I'm kinda thinking about that now, as this was my first scrog this is kinda my learning process of using a net. It sucks that I'm in a tight space, a closet, so adding more bulk with another layer net could just be more of a headache so we'll see. 

Experience sure is, it's just constant learning. 

MH has a better more "spring time" like light spectrum, where HPS has a more "fall time" light spectrum. Veg in spring and flower in fall, so just follow nature, right. Yeah I've heard of that as well as using both lights together throughout the grow to provide both light spectrums to cover all bases. Never looked into it too much so idk, read some people seeing advantage of the switch back to MH and others see no advantage so who knows. If you think about it, it's not like it happens in nature so idk The using both for both spectrums makes more sense but again never looked into it and couldn't do it personally anyway.

Yeah if it was drinking the water and the EC wasn't fluctuating you had enough nutes. Last week i started at a 2.1 EC and it only slightly lowered throughout week so it was where I wanted it but this week I started at 2.1 again but it's too much and it's rising and showing signs of overfert so I just diluted my solution down to 1.7. Some plants like more and some like less so the only way to know is measuring it's usage by EC. My last grow I was trying to match EC numbers to the previous grow, didn't know to just measure its intake, and ended up burning it a good bit. 

Nah I never used any extra nutes for bloom or anything. I just followed the ratios of the GH trio my last two grows and now am just using FloraNova Bloom all the way through. I'm really lazy so only opening one bottle instead of 3 is great haha! I probably should have used flora nova grow in veg but i don't veg too long and didn't have any issues at all so oh well. Only ever read people saying the extra bloom stuff is just gimmicks so never cared to look into them. And if there is some magic extra thing out there that boosts yeild then why isn't it already in my bloom nutes lol so idk. Once I get this scrog nailed down and I know what I can expect I might try experimenting with them to see if they actually do anything for me or not. For now I prefer to just keep it simple, don't want to many variables, that just adds more variables to deal with if I run into a problem.


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## Anon Emaus (Feb 17, 2016)

ligrow said:


> Quick update
> into day 18 flowering.
> Just switch to HPS tonight.
> Also raise EC from 0.6 to 1.1
> ...


Looking good! I'm only about 2 weeks ahead of you so this will be fun to watch! Once your buds really start bulking up I'm sure you'll surpass me with your bigger light though!


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## 2ANONYMOUS (Feb 17, 2016)

raise your table then reset it back and stretch out the tops that stretched more then others Goal is to have every bud site equal not allowing others to shade others 
Good practice is to super crop all tops during the 2 week stretch phase this helps control stretch and keep them even then all bud sites will be in fact even


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## ligrow (Feb 17, 2016)

Anon Emaus said:


> Looking good! I'm only about 2 weeks ahead of you so this will be fun to watch! Once your buds really start bulking up I'm sure you'll surpass me with your bigger light though!


Thanks
I really hope so, but from my previous grow also with the scrog net. Only pull 60 grams dry each plant. That's why I think I miss something.


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## ligrow (Feb 17, 2016)

2ANONYMOUS said:


> raise your table then reset it back and stretch out the tops that stretched more then others Goal is to have every bud site equal not allowing others to shade others
> Good practice is to super crop all tops during the 2 week stretch phase this helps control stretch and keep them even then all bud sites will be in fact even


Look real nice!
Sorry my English is not good. 
When u say raise the table. Do u mean net? I'm not quite sure what u mean.
So do I super crop them now?

Thanks for your feedback


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## 2ANONYMOUS (Feb 17, 2016)

yes raise net up then set it back down so all buds sites are level spread out the ones that that has stretched more then others and if she is now in full bloom phase then do not bother with cropping, while you take net off get under plants and start removal of lower bud sites stem shoots n leafs atleast 1/4 0f plant lower part then re set netting your good to go remember them sucker buds will keep trying to grow below canopy you must keep taking them off 
This will send all energy to top buds


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## ligrow (Feb 18, 2016)

Anon Emaus said:


> Welcome. Yeah I'm kinda thinking about that now, as this was my first scrog this is kinda my learning process of using a net. It sucks that I'm in a tight space, a closet, so adding more bulk with another layer net could just be more of a headache so we'll see.
> 
> Experience sure is, it's just constant learning.
> 
> ...


it takes me time to write in English, and it was late.
Sorry, for the late replied.

Yeah man! I after bunch of reading, I think I almost forgot they are plant, they grow in the nature. Its always better when you have indoor grow room's environment more like nature.

I see what you mean, but in my grow. I usually have ph raise when veg/ drop when flower. dont have swings for EC, unless I fill nute or water.

I never used that before, let me see if I can have bigger buds.

I just order a tent and some supplies today for my next grow.
it would be awesome if you can give me some feedback!
https://www.rollitup.org/t/need-some-advice-for-ebb-and-flow-setup.899582/

still confused about all lighting controller
http://rollitup.org/t/electricity-safety-help.897993/

Also I just started my journal this week, still try to figure how this blog works.
feel free to come stop by
http://rollitup.org/Journal/ligrow.787195/

Hey bro! do you live in Denver? what a lucky guy you are.
I live in the place with extremely strict marijuana law, and very expensive price.
Wish i could live in Denver too.

Still appreciated all the knowledge and experience you shared.
have a nice day


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## ligrow (Feb 18, 2016)

2ANONYMOUS said:


> yes raise net up then set it back down so all buds sites are level spread out the ones that that has stretched more then others and if she is now in full bloom phase then do not bother with cropping, while you take net off get under plants and start removal of lower bud sites stem shoots n leafs atleast 1/4 0f plant lower part then re set netting your good to go remember them sucker buds will keep trying to grow below canopy you must keep taking them off
> This will send all energy to top buds


Thanks for your feedback with that much detail.
that me get this clear.
I take off the net, have all lower buds, branches, leaves off.
reset the net that I can set them more equally
Is that what mean?

Do i have the net lower or the same height when I set it back?
I am afraid I will have them broke when I take the net off.

When you said sucker buds, do you mean small bud sites that can not get enough light?

Have a nice day, happy grow


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## ligrow (Feb 19, 2016)

Flower Day 20 

Have some lower popcorn buds cut last night. Still have lots of bud sites under the net. Do I have them cut off? I don't think they can make a through unless I have my net lower or something.

I have my leaves wet like last picture showed. What is that liquid on the leaf coming from?


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## budolskie (Feb 21, 2016)

I am now leaving mine to grow upwards


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## ligrow (Feb 21, 2016)

Day 20
Wonder if I need to have some trimming to have some fan leaves off.
I think I also veg too much side branches. should have them cut off earlier


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## ligrow (Feb 22, 2016)

Have one fan leaves trimmed today.
Leave another one to see what will happen.


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## Anon Emaus (Feb 23, 2016)

ligrow said:


> Have one fan leaves trimmed today.
> Leave another one to see what will happen.


Ouch, you skinned that poor girl pretty rough. That might be a bit overboard on the trimming, to say the least, that was probably very stressful for the plant. Whenever you trim you only want to do a little at a time or you'll stunt the growth, stress it out and whatnot. Obviously it's too late now to do anything but don't pull another hair off that girl for a while.


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## ligrow (Feb 23, 2016)

Anon Emaus said:


> Ouch, you skinned that poor girl pretty rough. That might be a bit overboard on the trimming, to say the least, that was probably very stressful for the plant. Whenever you trim you only want to do a little at a time or you'll stunt the growth, stress it out and whatnot. Obviously it's too late now to do anything but don't pull another hair off that girl for a while.


Yes I know I took off too much after I done that...but it's too late
How you take off your leaves to have them get more light?
Do you take off fan leaves that block during whole cycle?
What's gonna end up when I have them stress like this? Do I loose weight or just longer time to harvest?

I lower the net and still lots of buds can not have enough lights. It was like how my previous run look like. Only top nugs got bigger. I saw read some thread and watch some video on youtube. Found people grow very big buds by using a method call defoliation with scrog net. This is pretty much what I end up have it try with one of my girl.

Thanks for the notice, learning from mistake I'm sure it will never happen again


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## Anon Emaus (Feb 23, 2016)

ligrow said:


> Yes I know I took off too much after I done that...but it's too late
> How you take off your leaves to have them get more light?
> Do you take off fan leaves that block during whole cycle?
> What's gonna end up when I have them stress like this? Do I loose weight or just longer time to harvest?
> ...


It's good you did one and not the other, that'll be good for you to see the difference between the final result and continued growth you see. It's like an expirement. Biggest thing I can say is that you did too much at once and probably too much overall by what i can tell, next time just space out any defoliation. 

Defoliation is one of those touchy subjects where some people really hate it and others really like it. With scrog you kinda don't have a choice because all that stuff under the net and so out of the light will die off anyway so why let the plant waste the energy on it. From the view that picture was taken it looked like you went too far. I think you could have left more leaves without them causing any shade. I personally don't like too much defoliation because my experience, which honestly is limited, was negative in that i saw negative results(but that wasnt a scrog grow, i do pull under net growth in my scrog because i see it just dies anyway).
Keep in mind leaves are important to a plants growth so limiting them is limiting the plants potential so you don't want to go overboard. Above the net I remove as little as possible, some people remove for airflow reasons to reduce chances of mold as well so i see benefit in that obviously. Like everything I think you gotta just try shit and find what works for your specific grow, everyones grow is so different so you gotta find what works for you. 

As for whats going to happen, I never did exactly that so I don't really know. From what I've learned is that you will most likely stunt growth(longer flower time) and possibly lose yeild as well since you are inhibiting the plant by taking away pieces that help in plant growth. Along with the stunting comes stress, which could possibly lead to a domino effect of other problems but like i said i never did exactly that so I'm not sure whats going to happen. At least when you're all said and done you'll have the knowledge of what it causes.

Keep in mind with scrog your goal is to get all of the bud sites to the same height so you don't technically have "lower bud sites" because you trained all those lower branches up.


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## ligrow (Feb 24, 2016)

Anon Emaus said:


> It's good you did one and not the other, that'll be good for you to see the difference between the final result and continued growth you see. It's like an expirement. Biggest thing I can say is that you did too much at once and probably too much overall by what i can tell, next time just space out any defoliation.
> 
> Defoliation is one of those touchy subjects where some people really hate it and others really like it. With scrog you kinda don't have a choice because all that stuff under the net and so out of the light will die off anyway so why let the plant waste the energy on it. From the view that picture was taken it looked like you went too far. I think you could have left more leaves without them causing any shade. I personally don't like too much defoliation because my experience, which honestly is limited, was negative in that i saw negative results(but that wasnt a scrog grow, i do pull under net growth in my scrog because i see it just dies anyway).
> Keep in mind leaves are important to a plants growth so limiting them is limiting the plants potential so you don't want to go overboard. Above the net I remove as little as possible, some people remove for airflow reasons to reduce chances of mold as well so i see benefit in that obviously. Like everything I think you gotta just try shit and find what works for your specific grow, everyones grow is so different so you gotta find what works for you.
> ...


thanks for these much detail. 
I can tell the one I hurt its grow slower than the other one I did not do defoliation 
Will have some picture update this weekend.

would you defoliation during veg stage? just read a thread he did have very excellent result with defoliation in veg stage.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/how-to-scrog-up-bushy-nl-5xhaze-girls.891365/page-11#post-12355400
so much experts here in RIU. wish I can grow one like he did.
the thing that frustrated me most, is he didnt use as much watt as I do now.
I think your grow is going to have me hurt again, since I spend more money on power, and less harvest


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## calliandra (Feb 25, 2016)

ligrow said:


> Have one fan leaves trimmed today.
> Leave another one to see what will happen.


Yeah ouch, extremely clean lol

Though I must say this:
the extreme defoliation guys have plants that actually look like this, and somehow they still get yields -- BUT you have to consider

they start defoliating *very early on*. 
They say that if a plant is used to getting stripped, it "learns" to replace those leaves more quickly. 

their plants look like yours does now *much earlier* - nearing end of veg.
So yes, doing this was way too late and you will get just the yield of the budsites you see now  -- she probably won't be growing any new ones anymore...

Yep you grow you learn -- good call you only did it to one of them!
And who knows, maybe she'll grow really fat buds on those few sites 
Cheers and good luck!


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## budolskie (Feb 25, 2016)

19 days of 12/12 I hope it turns out ok 


I have been just pulling a few leafs off every few days but left branches alone for about 6 days now


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## ligrow (Feb 25, 2016)

calliandra said:


> Yeah ouch, extremely clean lol
> 
> Though I must say this:
> the extreme defoliation guys have plants that actually look like this, and somehow they still get yields -- BUT you have to consider
> ...


Thanks for checking my grow!

*they start defoliating very early on. *
I did realized that right after I got her hurt...
They said only do it if you have already defoliating in veg.

*their plants look like yours does now much earlier - nearing end of veg.*
Sorry im not quite sure what do you mean.
I got it defoliating first time in about day 21 after I flip.

*So yes, doing this was way too late and you will get just the yield of the budsites you see now  -- she probably won't be growing any new ones anymore...*
Yes I did know that. This is not my first time scrog. I thought I am going to have the same yield compare with my previous grow which is really bad. Only pull 120 grams for two plants in 4 x 4 tent.
My previous grow, only first bud on the top got bigger, anything below then first bud are small.
I wonder how can people have the buds all over the branch, its like baseball bat or something.
so this is pretty much why I decided start defoliating this late.

You have mentioned you defoliating in veg, may I know how often you do it?

really appreciate your check out and the knowledge you share.
Have a nice day


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## ligrow (Feb 25, 2016)

budolskie said:


> 19 days of 12/12 I hope it turns out ok View attachment 3616384
> View attachment 3616385
> 
> I have been just pulling a few leafs off every few days but left branches alone for about 6 days now


look nice!
What do you going to deal with the buds sites below the net?


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## budolskie (Feb 25, 2016)

I'm unsure yet I'm hoping for advice aswell but I will see how much Is growing underneath through next week and start trimming the lower stuff off


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## ligrow (Feb 28, 2016)

Got home early today, had a chance take some pics before lights on.
Almost 28 days after flip
Got my gh liquid and powder kool bloom arrived. Had my res changed with gh flora two parts 8 ml micro 16 bloom per gal. Before I add kool bloom ec was 1.4 after I add 2ml per gal kool boom it raise 0.1 to 1.5. Not sure if I should add more kool bloom or just gh two part to take up the ec?

First pic the one that I hurt them by took off all the fan leaves.



The other one that does not hurt
 
Both of them


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## ligrow (Mar 2, 2016)

Good day guys, 
Into 32 days after flip
I found I some sign on leaves, don't know what problem am I having. 
Please see pics below.
I have leaves kind of turning yellow and show brown at the edge. 
Could any one help me to identify if my girls are not feeling well.

After couple weeks watch differences between two of my plants. I would say not much different on buds size so far. One you that I cut all the fan leaves off actually have better production on trichom. Still not sure what sure I do for next run. Maybe defolaiting during whole cycle? Any advice?
Cheers


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## Anon Emaus (Mar 2, 2016)

ligrow said:


> Good day guys,
> Into 32 days after flip
> I found I some sign on leaves, don't know what problem am I having.
> Please see pics below.
> ...


Just a hair of nute burn maybe, pics look so minimal i wouldn't worry about it unless it progresses or unless others look much worse than those and therems a lot of them. I say wait until this grow is done and use your best judgement on what you think works best for you and just continue to improve and improve, you can only get better!


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## 714steadyeddie (Mar 3, 2016)

ligrow said:


> Got home early today, had a chance take some pics before lights on.
> Almost 28 days after flip
> Got my gh liquid and powder kool bloom arrived. Had my res changed with gh flora two parts 8 ml micro 16 bloom per gal. Before I add kool bloom ec was 1.4 after I add 2ml per gal kool boom it raise 0.1 to 1.5. Not sure if I should add more kool bloom or just gh two part to take up the ec?
> 
> ...


I hope you're not always bugging the plants during lights off


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## ligrow (Mar 3, 2016)

714steadyeddie said:


> I hope you're not always bugging the plants during lights off


Thanks for the notice. I dont always bugging plants during lights off.
I took pics only like ten minutes before lights on. that should be fine right?


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## ligrow (Mar 3, 2016)

Anon Emaus said:


> Just a hair of nute burn maybe, pics look so minimal i wouldn't worry about it unless it progresses or unless others look much worse than those and therems a lot of them. I say wait until this grow is done and use your best judgement on what you think works best for you and just continue to improve and improve, you can only get better!


Thanks for the feedback again
I actually have same symptom last run. the leaves turned yellow much earlier then it should. thats why I worry about it right now. I will keep looking to see if it gets worst.


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## Anon Emaus (Mar 3, 2016)

ligrow said:


> Thanks for the feedback again
> I actually have same symptom last run. the leaves turned yellow much earlier then it should. thats why I worry about it right now. I will keep looking to see if it gets worst.


If you have worse looking leaves throw up some pics of them so we can see. Over and under feeding is really easy to do in dwc so it's common for someone new to see some burning and/or nute deficiencies/toxicities. Just gotta learn how to identify the beggining of problems and stop them before they become worse.


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## ligrow (Mar 5, 2016)

I think I am having the same problem that I had last run.
fan leaves turn brown as pic shows.

I messrued PH and EC last night. can tell the PH and EC swing a bit.
The one that I did not do defoliation shows more signs of deficiency.
two days ago: PH5.9 EC 1.5 last night: PH6.1 EC 1.2

The other that I defoliation do not have much sign of deficiency, but that one I amlost took all the fan leaves off already. I can see some left fan leaves show some sign of deficiency too
two days ago: PH 5.9 EC 1.5 last night: PH6.2 EC 1.8

use tap water EC 0.1
I use GH flora two part mix with 1:2 Micro: Bloom
Koolboom liquid 2ml/ gal

I used to follow Lucas formula. go 8:16 ml/ gal
I can only get my EC to 1.2, I think a lot of guys here go much stronger EC than that
so I simply just fellow 1:2 and go more then 8:16 ml/ gal
EC 1.5 would be my base nutrients. after adding koolbloom EC raise 0.1 to 1.6
Am I feeding too much or they are actually hungry.

I know if fan leaves turn yellow in last few weeks.
Im 34 days after flip, still feeding them. fan leaves should not turn brown or yellow this eari

this is my first run running 600watt hid. I can tell buds fatten much faster then 400watt.
Want to get everything right to have good yields. Any feedback are appreciate
happy grow


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## Anon Emaus (Mar 5, 2016)

ligrow said:


> I think I am having the same problem that I had last run.
> fan leaves turn brown as pic shows.
> 
> I messrued PH and EC last night. can tell the PH and EC swing a bit.
> ...


You don't want EC to rise so lower the EC on the one with the rising EC. Never try to match the EC that someone else runs, every grow is different. 
Other than that i don't really know what else could be causing that brown.


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## GreenThumbsMcgee (Mar 11, 2016)

hey guys and gals...
I am among other first timers here, so i figured this would be a good place to look for help. Just built my screen yesterday, and got it installed, and I am just wondering if when placing the plant under the screen, do most growers keep all the branches completely under the net, or do they let them grow vert, then tuck over, under thru the netting? when i placed it under, i kinda let a few of them grow upward, to be pushed down as it grows, but i am seeing pics, and i cant really tell what most people are doing.
any feed back is greatly appreciated.
Thanks 
GTM


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## budolskie (Mar 11, 2016)

I just let my tops grow through the net till they were long enough to pull back under to the next hole or 2 away..

Here they are mid flower


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## GreenThumbsMcgee (Mar 12, 2016)

budolskie said:


> I just let my tops grow through the net till they were long enough to pull back under to the next hole or 2 away..
> 
> Here they are mid flowerView attachment 3629068


very nice. and thanks for the reply. This is just my first scrog, so just am curious. It looked a little stressed after putting it under the screen. I always over think new things when trying new techniques, and end up realizing it after I catch on and look back..sure it will be self-explanatory.
Looking at my pic i posted above, about how long would you wait until flipping it?
thanks again'
GTM


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## ligrow (Mar 12, 2016)

Anon Emaus said:


> You don't want EC to rise so lower the EC on the one with the rising EC. Never try to match the EC that someone else runs, every grow is different.
> Other than that i don't really know what else could be causing that brown.


Sorry for the late reply.
41 days after flip. Not much sign showing stress lately.
The one it took off all the fan leaves still look better production on trichom.
I think I need to low the RH its 60% avg. it get to high 70's to 80% when in raining days.
Its Spring now it gonna get hotter soon. I will have portable A/C running hopefully next week to keep the RH down and avoid the heat.

btw I am confused about when ppl say flowering time. or the harvest time reccomend from those seed banks. Do they mean i count from the day I flip? or count from the day I see pistols?
cheers


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## ligrow (Mar 12, 2016)

budolskie said:


> I just let my tops grow through the net till they were long enough to pull back under to the next hole or 2 away..
> 
> Here they are mid flowerView attachment 3629068


They look nice bro!
How did you do with those lower buds sites?
I think I have three more weeks to go. cant wait!!


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## ligrow (Mar 12, 2016)

GreenThumbsMcgee said:


> very nice. and thanks for the reply. This is just my first scrog, so just am curious. It looked a little stressed after putting it under the screen. I always over think new things when trying new techniques, and end up realizing it after I catch on and look back..sure it will be self-explanatory.
> Looking at my pic i posted above, about how long would you wait until flipping it?
> thanks again'
> GTM


Good day @GreenThumbsMcgee
thats a nice net!
I am no expert here, still learning. Please correct me if I am wrong.
As I know, you dont want to wait till your girl fully fit with the net. because when you flip plant will stretch.
I would wait a week or two
happy grow


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## budolskie (Mar 12, 2016)

I would flip now,
your net is more then 60% full already?




ligrow said:


> Sorry for the late reply.
> 41 days after flip. Not much sign showing stress lately.
> The one it took off all the fan leaves still look better production on trichom.
> I think I need to low the RH its 60% avg. it get to high 70's to 80% when in raining days.
> ...


I count from day switch light but that is just a rough idea sum seeds of same strain may still vary


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## ligrow (Mar 15, 2016)

update pics from last weekend.
Six weeks after flip.
As some fan leaves still turn brown.
I think still some problems there, and I can not find out how to solve it.
dont know if it slow down any buds development.


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## budolskie (Mar 15, 2016)

Have u tried dropping the strengths of your feed..


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## ligrow (Mar 15, 2016)

budolskie said:


> Have u tried dropping the strengths of your feed..


Yes I change res last weekend. hava EC down from 1.8 to 1.5.
same sign as my last run...Hope it dont get any worst..


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## budolskie (Mar 16, 2016)

I'm no hydro expert but I can't see how dropping the strengths will harm.

Have u posted a pic of your leafs in the hydro threads to see what the pros say,

I'm about 6 weeks in myself due about the 2nd next month


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## Anon Emaus (Mar 16, 2016)

ligrow said:


> Yes I change res last weekend. hava EC down from 1.8 to 1.5.
> same sign as my last run...Hope it dont get any worst..


What nutes are you running and what kinda of water? You running RO or tap water?
Is EC staying stable throughout the week or dropping or rising?
How much is one plant drinking in 5 days time?


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## ligrow (Mar 19, 2016)

Anon Emaus said:


> What nutes are you running and what kinda of water? You running RO or tap water?
> Is EC staying stable throughout the week or dropping or rising?
> How much is one plant drinking in 5 days time?


I am using tap water with EC 0.1

One plant thats I did defoliation drink more than the other one. I would say half of 5 gal bucket in 5 days.
That one EC remain stable.

The other one I did not defoliation drink much more. Half of 5 gal bucket in three day.
This one EC raise. I thought I might overfeed them. I cut my EC from 1.8 to 1.5 and its 1.2 now.

I found my PH drop this week. I set around 5.5- 5.6 when I change res. After a week. I drop to 5.2-5.3


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## Anon Emaus (Mar 19, 2016)

ligrow said:


> I am using tap water with EC 0.1
> 
> One plant thats I did defoliation drink more than the other one. I would say half of 5 gal bucket in 5 days.
> That one EC remain stable.
> ...


Keep the nutes at 1.5 for now, just let it ride it out. Don't let the little things bother ya too much, just keep an eye on them and learn how the plant reacts to everything and you'll learn to read what to give attention to or not.


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