UFO LED or HPS 250w
- Thread starter rayver
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malignant
Well-Known Member
your shit wont load
The best way to use LEDs is to take full advantage of the fact
that you have several light sources that produce very little heat.
You can have them touching the tops of your plants and your plants will be thrilled...
If you get a UFO, then you have to pull it away from your plants to get some coverage,
and thats a waste... both of light and space (and time, your time)
ScrOG is best suited to this type of growing.
And if your LED panels are built right (like mine)
and don't get hot, you can use the lights to ScrOG for you.
Once they hit the lights they just grow sideways.
You don't have to really mess with them at all until you're ready to flower...
then you have to either ScrOG or tie the branches down
(so you can keep the bud from touching the lights and getting resin on them...)
-Loki
Unless you're using 10mm LED panels and ScrOG, or DIY LEDs, I'd have to agree.
LEDs will get much much better in time.
Built in timers, variable wavelengths, more complete spectrums, etc...
-Loki
SpruceZeus
Well-Known Member
Personally i've NEVER seen pictures of a fat bud grown with LEDs. If someone can show me one i might have a different opinion.
Every LED grow i've ever seen goes the same way.
-"Hey guyz, i just got me $750 of xmas tree lites, watch mi gro ten poundz!!!!lolzorx!!!!!!!1!!!111!!!!1one11!!!two111!!!!"
-"Luk mi seedz sprouted, fuk yeh"
-"itz bin 2 monthsx n mi plantz r only 4" wut do i do"
(everyone) "Try using some high intensity lighting"
Now its at this point that our diode weilding protagonist has to make a life changing decision.
Either they:
a)Stay the course! "I red in hi-timez that it wurkz so it does"
This course of action inevitably results in our ufo space cadet finishing their grow and being thouroughly disappointed in the final result, which time and time again proves to be wispy, airy buds that are sparse on the tops of plants and practically non-existant below the 6" throw of these "space age" little blips.
OR
b)Heed the advice of many who've made the mistakes before them.
It is in this scenario that our quick learning friend ditches the "kool LEdZ" for a proven and effective High intensity discharge light. Almost immediately we see a drastic turnaround in the blissful botanist's success. The end result being big, tight nugs. And the gleeful gardener will go on to spread the good word, that one can overcome these dreadful diodes and move on to a better place, haleluja, praise the lord, oh yea.
The book of Zeus 4:20
LEDs are great for plants, just not marijuana. I'm sure the future holds bright things, but atm they are just not good enough to warrant the price. Maybe in a situation where you cant get ahold of an HID or any flourescents or cfls and you happen to have a spare $2000 LED grow light kicking around you could probably veg with it, but for flowering they just dont make sense.
its a tossup butim gonna say go with the HPS!
Every LED grow i've ever seen goes the same way.
-"Hey guyz, i just got me $750 of xmas tree lites, watch mi gro ten poundz!!!!lolzorx!!!!!!!1!!!111!!!!1one11!!!two111!!!!"
-"Luk mi seedz sprouted, fuk yeh"
-"itz bin 2 monthsx n mi plantz r only 4" wut do i do"
(everyone) "Try using some high intensity lighting"
Now its at this point that our diode weilding protagonist has to make a life changing decision.
Either they:
a)Stay the course! "I red in hi-timez that it wurkz so it does"
This course of action inevitably results in our ufo space cadet finishing their grow and being thouroughly disappointed in the final result, which time and time again proves to be wispy, airy buds that are sparse on the tops of plants and practically non-existant below the 6" throw of these "space age" little blips.
OR
b)Heed the advice of many who've made the mistakes before them.
It is in this scenario that our quick learning friend ditches the "kool LEdZ" for a proven and effective High intensity discharge light. Almost immediately we see a drastic turnaround in the blissful botanist's success. The end result being big, tight nugs. And the gleeful gardener will go on to spread the good word, that one can overcome these dreadful diodes and move on to a better place, haleluja, praise the lord, oh yea.
The book of Zeus 4:20
LEDs are great for plants, just not marijuana. I'm sure the future holds bright things, but atm they are just not good enough to warrant the price. Maybe in a situation where you cant get ahold of an HID or any flourescents or cfls and you happen to have a spare $2000 LED grow light kicking around you could probably veg with it, but for flowering they just dont make sense.
its a tossup butim gonna say go with the HPS!
cseidler420
Active Member
If you have the extra cash get the UFO and see how it does, theres a lot of people who talk shit about it but they've never used one (most anyways). I bet it would do great with two plants in a highly reflective grow area
I've got a 400w HPS sitting in my closet.
I haven't used it in over 3 years, because LEDs are better.
My LED setup cost me less than $1/watt to build.
Here's a little bit of insider info for you Zeus... marijuana IS a plant.
There's a lot of expensive LED junk out there, but that doesn't mean LEDs
themselves can't grow bud. You just have to do it right.
For anyone interested in stealth or micro growing, LEDs are fucking amazing.
They take up barely any room and make barely any heat.
So, you can grow a decent size plant in something as small as a PC case.
Hell, with a PC case, if it has a PSU, you can drive your lights off it.
And forget about noisey fans...
The ones I use in my totes are smaller than a pack of cigarettes
and rated for something like 12 cfm... and that's plenty.
LEDs are todays technology, if you can DIY...
-Loki
SpruceZeus
Well-Known Member
Apologies to the person who started this thread.
What kind of yields do you get with these leds?
Could you show me a picture of a fat, tight bud grown with them?
I'd like to believe that Leds are useful, i really would, i just haven't EVER seen a large, dense bud grown with them.
Its awesome that they're really cool, but i'd rather have to deal with some heat than deal with airy bud.
You say your fans are really tiny. I need a good breeze blowing on my plants to strengthen my stalks to hold up the fat buds my HPS will grow.
Heres a couple pics of some marijuana grown with HIDs
Now please, if you would, show me some proof.
SHOW ME!!!! Pictures talk, bullshit walks! Sorry thats pretty cheesy, and i'm not trying to be a dick, just engage in some spirited debate. But in all seriousness I wont be convinced until i see some evidence.
I should have specified, Leds are good for some plants, just not marijuana. I hope you're just breaking balls and not actually convinced i think marijuana is not a plant. Either way, kind of petty.
What kind of yields do you get with these leds?
Could you show me a picture of a fat, tight bud grown with them?
I'd like to believe that Leds are useful, i really would, i just haven't EVER seen a large, dense bud grown with them.
Its awesome that they're really cool, but i'd rather have to deal with some heat than deal with airy bud.
You say your fans are really tiny. I need a good breeze blowing on my plants to strengthen my stalks to hold up the fat buds my HPS will grow.
Heres a couple pics of some marijuana grown with HIDs
Now please, if you would, show me some proof.
SHOW ME!!!! Pictures talk, bullshit walks! Sorry thats pretty cheesy, and i'm not trying to be a dick, just engage in some spirited debate. But in all seriousness I wont be convinced until i see some evidence.
I was just busting your balls. I think you know marijuana is a plant, but you don't know dick about lights. What you SHOULD have done, was say why you think LEDs aren't good for marijuana. And then we'd be able to discuss it. But as anyone who both knows how to grow weed and has used both HPS and LED (CFLs too actually) knows, LED light kicks ass.
Sure, you can go on utube and find shitty LED grows, but I can show you lots of shitty grows using HIDs too. I'll get at least 2 grams per watt, more if I make good use of my space by training/ScrOGing.
If those plants you've got there are under your full 1400 watts, I'm not really impressed. They are definately decent, just nothing to write home about.
If I'd had known LEDs had such a bad rep, I'd have taken pics of past crops done with LEDs. I've got a grow going now that I'm logging and have posted a couple videos of it as well. Once its done, you'll see buds like you wouldn't believe. I've got a Jack Herer that, when its done, will look like its dipped in powdered sugar...
I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. You can read my log and make up your own mind.
grow log
Jack in the Box or Loki's LED Hydro totes... - Cannabis Culture Forums
video
Cannabis TV :: Video :: Smoke from all around!
-Loki
SpruceZeus
Well-Known Member
I dont know dick about lights? What i do know is that I still haven't seen fat buds grown under LED lights.
Why do i think LEDs are no go for marijuana? Because i've never seen anything but mundane, unimpressive grows with very little final product from them. If you are growing big fat monsters with them then that is awesome, but i havn't seen em, so that makes them as good as non-existant.
some of the buds i posted were grown with a 400w some with 1000w hps, i don't think they're necissarily that impressive, just some fat, thick buds, all of which are denser and bigger than any LED grown bud i've ever seen.
I checked out your growlog, i've gotta say its pretty interesting, you strike me as someone who has some idea what they're doing. So i was pretty disapointed I didn't see anything to convince me that LEDs are anywhere comparable to HIDs. I have to wonder if you're not just so intent on wanting LEDs to be great that you've got the love goggles on.
I'm not senselessly hating on your peticular lighting choice. Hell, i'd love to see something to make me a believer, but sadly, so far all i've seen is alot of claims of great things and no of documentation of them.
Well, what is it about LEDs that makes them bad for growing pot? You said they were good for other plants, but not pot. You stated that as a fact, yet the best you've come up with to back it up is "I aint never seen no good LEDs grows". Lets talk about the light. Did you know todays Cree dye LEDs will put out 4x the photons per watt of the best HPS? What about wavelengths? You HPS growers are always bringing that up when someone mentions flowering with MH HIDs.
From the pics of your grow room, and lack of mylar, I'd say your gardening skillz still need some work. This isn't my first LED grow. I know they work and I know how they work best. My colas aren't huge, but that has more to do with the grow style (ScrOGish) than the lights.
You mention you need lots of air movement to strengthen your stalks. If you had more blue, your plants wouldn't be so stretchy and that wouldn't be an issue. But of course, if you didn't have a lot of air flow, your plants would fry...
That Jack Herer has 16 branches, plus the top. Each one will produce about a dry 1/8th... This one may do less, because I sprayed 2 branches with ionic silver to force it to make male flowers... so I can make some feminized seeds... I'm hoping to still hit the 2 oz mark though...
I know you want to reply, "but show me buds!". If you do, you will end up on my ignore list because you clearly aren't reading/understanding my posts. I'm posting a grow log now, there will be lots of pics of the harvest, but you have to wait... If that's not good enough for you, then that's too bad. LEDs don't make the plant grow any faster... It won't stop my buds from growing if you don't believe in them... I'll get just as high weither you like LEDs or not, lolz...
Seriously though, get some mylar. Proper reflection and you can double the amount of light your plants get... And it adds side light, which will lower your red/far red ratio and your plants will stretch less...
-Loki
smppro
Well-Known Member
Funny that you take time to take pictures of building the lights, vegging, but no finishing flowering? most people have never seen a descent grow from LEDS and here you are doing better than HID guys, this is pretty amazing and you dont want to show it? You even showed the plants after they were cut down. I mean 2g per watt is good for any light. Have you been featured in CannabisCulture or anything?
Funny, you need to do some more reading there Sherlock. If you had paid attention, you'd see the bud that is pictured in that grow log is from an outdoor grown GDP. I helped a buddy harvest and thats what I got out of it.
And if you follow the fine details of the grow, you might notice I started out taking pictures with my cell phone. This is the first grow I've kept a log of, and IMHO I think its a pretty decent grow log. I bought a 10 megapixel camera and I even posted 2 videos. You can bet I'll show the finished buds, once they're done. Until then, you guys can speculate on LEDs and in 2 months, I'll show you how wrong you were.
In the meantime, since I can't make my plants grow any faster than they grow, if someone wants to point out an LED grow that looks shitty, please do so and we can talk about that whats right and wrong about that particular grow. I've never seen a LED setup with UV, other than mine. I've seen lots where the lights are home made... a dozen 5watt LEDs 4 feet above the plants, no mylar, probably feeding the miracle-gro. And the guy was thrilled when his plants stretched 10cm in one day... Holy Fuck! And he was pleased as punch at that, "amazing growth" he said... unfrigginbelievable...
2 grams/watt is hella good. I never broke 1 gram/watt with my HPS, but I didn't do any training or ScrOGing, and that's where you really see the difference.
I honestly get a kick out of you LED doubters. You're like the straights who think pot will turn people into pycho killers... Those who have been growing a long time will remember CFLs coming of age. This is the same thing, just different characters. HID growers like to scare the noobs away from other lights. Its probably for the best when it comes to LEDs because there aren't many decent comercial units yet. You can grow bud with a LED UFO, but it ain't going to be any where near a 400 watt HPS, but that's because of its design. You'd do just as well with 15watts of LEDs in the same foot print that the UFO has, because 80% of that light is going to be wasted.
-Loki
FLOWER PIMP
Well-Known Member
it looks like i will be standing by waiting for the 2 months to pass. in the mean time keep us updated.
i don't take a serious stance because i think if you have the time and patience you can grow with candles. i mean seriously anything is possible. its just what you put in to it.
i'm soooo glad that i dont have to adjust the cfl's lights anymore now that i have an hps. i would prefer to come in and water give a good look over smell the air, and leave my plants to growing.
make me a believer and we can jam out together. i'm about 2 months away from a harvest.
and i agree, do keep the noobs away from leds. hell keep em away from cfl's. i wish i would have never tried these things. they work, but not as easy as a good ol bright ass hps. that is unless you don't have a setup to disapait the heat, then you gotta do what you gotta do
i don't take a serious stance because i think if you have the time and patience you can grow with candles. i mean seriously anything is possible. its just what you put in to it.
i'm soooo glad that i dont have to adjust the cfl's lights anymore now that i have an hps. i would prefer to come in and water give a good look over smell the air, and leave my plants to growing.
make me a believer and we can jam out together. i'm about 2 months away from a harvest.
and i agree, do keep the noobs away from leds. hell keep em away from cfl's. i wish i would have never tried these things. they work, but not as easy as a good ol bright ass hps. that is unless you don't have a setup to disapait the heat, then you gotta do what you gotta do
You'd like my totes because they are even lower maitenance. When I veg, I have the base floating 4 inches from my lights. When the water level drops 2 inches, I top it back off and check my pH. 9 times out of 10 its right on. Sometimes its a bit high, so I add a touch more nutes to bring it down a tad and that's it... Once I start flowering, I'll tie the branches down or ScrOG them and as the bud develop, I'll lower the base to give them room to grow into... Its nice not having to deal with watering. I check my plants usually once a day, if only to smell them.
I agree about CFLs too. They work in some places a HID can't, but over all HIDs are better. Of course, I've smoked buds grown under T5HOs that were fucking amazing. I think seperates good bud from awesome bud is usually the grower.
-Loki
marchold
Well-Known Member
I have been growing with HPS, CFL, and LED. The stuff about 90w=400w is simply not true. The UFO is good at because I can have it in a little 1/5'x1.5'x4' grow tent with almost no ventilation. I also have 4 20w florecent tubes in there. The thing is there is no comparison with the HPS. I mean I need a ventilation system for my 400w HPS but it covers a space that is 2.5'x3'x5' and the plants grow way fater under the HPS. Now to make things worse for the UFO, my HPS had a 2 year old bulb and the glass was dirty so the light output was greatly diminished, still the old dirty HPS outperformed the UFO. Even worse my UFO broke after 3 months and I had to send it in to be replaced. Now I use the UFO to cover that little space next to my HPS under the ventilation tube that does not get much light. I think my plants really like the HPS+LED mix.
In the summer it gets to hot for me to grow, this is where the LED lights are useful, here is how I use them: I keep my light cycle with the LED's and cut back my HPS to 2 to 4 hour on cycles depending on heat.
If you don't care about money buy a 150w HPS and a 90w UFO and use them together. You will have A LOT more buds to smoke with a single 400w HPS. If you get a nice reflector that cools well that would be my recommendation.
The other good use for LED's is side lighting. you can mount those 48w/55w panels on the wall where the HPS in not powerful enough to penetrate. Those $150 panels work really well. They are the only LED lights I will still buy. My plans will be bear stems on the bottm with just a HPS light but with side LED lighting the bottoms stay healthy.
The thing to keep in mind when buying LED panels is that high output LED's produce much more light than regular LED's. In fact the regular LED's are sort of a joke. So if a panel has 225 LED's and uses 13w it sucks. But if it has less LED's and used more watts that is a diecent light.
Also another thing to keep in mind is the LED light will need a power supply. If you get a built in power supply like the UFO it is hard to replace if it breaks. Those panels have a external power supply (which is just a laptop power supply) so if it breaks it is easily replaced.
The UFO is loud! It has 3 cooling fans built in and it makes noise. So if you dont want to vent a HPS because the fans make noise, the UFO is no better.
In the summer it gets to hot for me to grow, this is where the LED lights are useful, here is how I use them: I keep my light cycle with the LED's and cut back my HPS to 2 to 4 hour on cycles depending on heat.
If you don't care about money buy a 150w HPS and a 90w UFO and use them together. You will have A LOT more buds to smoke with a single 400w HPS. If you get a nice reflector that cools well that would be my recommendation.
The other good use for LED's is side lighting. you can mount those 48w/55w panels on the wall where the HPS in not powerful enough to penetrate. Those $150 panels work really well. They are the only LED lights I will still buy. My plans will be bear stems on the bottm with just a HPS light but with side LED lighting the bottoms stay healthy.
The thing to keep in mind when buying LED panels is that high output LED's produce much more light than regular LED's. In fact the regular LED's are sort of a joke. So if a panel has 225 LED's and uses 13w it sucks. But if it has less LED's and used more watts that is a diecent light.
Also another thing to keep in mind is the LED light will need a power supply. If you get a built in power supply like the UFO it is hard to replace if it breaks. Those panels have a external power supply (which is just a laptop power supply) so if it breaks it is easily replaced.
The UFO is loud! It has 3 cooling fans built in and it makes noise. So if you dont want to vent a HPS because the fans make noise, the UFO is no better.
Yeah, the UFO sucks. I can't believe people buy them, if only because they're like $600... Even if it was as good as a 400watt HPS, $600 is way too much.
-Loki
redirasta
Well-Known Member
But how much have you spent on reflectors and ventilation? I've got $1.50 sunk into a 12vdc 12cfm fan... What are you using?
I wouldn't touch any of the comercial LED systems either. They're poorly designed and over priced... But that isn't always going to be the case.
-Loki