The Treadmill of Atheism

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
Here are some of my Gods, not EVIDENCE of Gods, not WORKS of Gods, here are some of my actual Gods, please prove that they don't exist.

if anyone here wants to say "I have never seen a God", you simply don't understand the world around you. If you REALLY don't know of any Gods, then you can go ahead and stop considering different rotations of the Earth to be "Months", because that is all based on Mnemonic God mapping. March = Mars, June = Jupiter/Zues etc.

And have you ever heard of a Movie? Most if not ALL movies are based on Greek and Roman Plays (which were all based on the stars in the sky, and how they interact with the sun and the Earth's rotation) The most "in your face" example of this is the movie "Prometheus", they took the story of Prometheus, and put it in space. So when you watch a movie, you are usually watching a new interpretation of an ancient story. Even when it's just explosions. War has always been a theme, and their are different situations that happen to Mars in the sky that were interpreted by ancient actors in the sky. So without "God", Media would get pretty boring. We would just have the news then.

And you can go ahead and stop using clocks. Because those are both based on Automatons that people made 2000 years ago (so they must be useless right?) and they are based on "Chronos" aka "The Measuring of Time" aka Chronology, Chronology MEANS "From Chronos" or "The Study of Chronos".

And if you have ever heard of "The Scientific Method". That comes out of what is known as "Philosophy", which is where Demonstrations and Debate come from. Sophy in "Philosophy" comes from the Goddess "Sophie" she is the Goddess of Wisdom. When you "Philosophize" you are "Loving Sophie Actively". And since Science only exists because of the "Philosophy of Science", in extension, you are "Loving Sophie Actively" when you do science.

I could keep going, but these are some REAL Gods you can see on Earth or being Interpreted on Earth, if you wanted a magic man in the sky that in kinda your own problem.
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
Isn't that like an hour long debate?

When does what you're referring to happen?
The whole time. Matt expects the presup, Sye Ten gives him the presup. Then Matt "wins" by saying that he could be in the Matrix, but if he is in the Matrix, he has to live by the rules of the Matrix and so does Sye. But that is not really a clear win, because Sye just at that point was like "You're face down in an asylum".
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Here are some of my Gods, not EVIDENCE of Gods, not WORKS of Gods, here are some of my actual Gods, please prove that they don't exist.

if anyone here wants to say "I have never seen a God", you simply don't understand the world around you. If you REALLY don't know of any Gods, then you can go ahead and stop considering different rotations of the Earth to be "Months", because that is all based on Mnemonic God mapping. March = Mars, June = Jupiter/Zues etc.

And have you ever heard of a Movie? Most if not ALL movies are based on Greek and Roman Plays (which were all based on the stars in the sky, and how they interact with the sun and the Earth's rotation) The most "in your face" example of this is the movie "Prometheus", they took the story of Prometheus, and put it in space. So when you watch a movie, you are usually watching a new interpretation of an ancient story. Even when it's just explosions. War has always been a theme, and their are different situations that happen to Mars in the sky that were interpreted by ancient actors in the sky. So without "God", Media would get pretty boring. We would just have the news then.

And you can go ahead and stop using clocks. Because those are both based on Automatons that people made 2000 years ago (so they must be useless right?) and they are based on "Chronos" aka "The Measuring of Time" aka Chronology, Chronology MEANS "From Chronos" or "The Study of Chronos".

And if you have ever heard of "The Scientific Method". That comes out of what is known as "Philosophy", which is where Demonstrations and Debate come from. Sophy in "Philosophy" comes from the Goddess "Sophie" she is the Goddess of Wisdom. When you "Philosophize" you are "Loving Sophie Actively". And since Science only exists because of the "Philosophy of Science", in extension, you are "Loving Sophie Actively" when you do science.

I could keep going, but these are some REAL Gods you can see on Earth or being Interpreted on Earth, if you wanted a magic man in the sky that in kinda your own problem.
You are using the word "God" incorrectly

 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
The whole time. Matt expects the presup, Sye Ten gives him the presup. Then Matt "wins" by saying that he could be in the Matrix, but if he is in the Matrix, he has to live by the rules of the Matrix and so does Sye. But that is not really a clear win, because Sye just at that point was like "You're face down in an asylum".
I'm not really sure what you mean, could you be more specific?

What is the 'presup'?
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
I'm not really sure what you mean, could you be more specific?

What is the 'presup'?
The presup is when a Christian asks you "What is your world view" then they ask "What do you use to rationalize your world view?" or something like that. You say "My Reasoning" and they say "What do you use to make sure that is correct?" and you say "My reasoning". And they say "You have no basis for Morality or even logic without God, and you therefor are incapable of reasoning"
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
No, YOU are. No Greek that was grown and had their full faculties thought Zeus lived in the sky and had lightning bolts. They KNEW Zeus existed, because Zeus is JUPITER.
I'm using the formal definition of "God";

- the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

- the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam.

- (lowercase) one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.

- (often lowercase) a supreme being according to some particular conception: the god of mercy.

- Christian Science. the Supreme Being, understood as Life, Truth, Love, Mind, Soul, Spirit, Principle.

- (lowercase) an image of a deity; an idol.

- (lowercase) any deified person or object.
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
I'm using the formal definition of "God";

- the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

- the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam.

- (lowercase) one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.

- (often lowercase) a supreme being according to some particular conception: the god of mercy.

- Christian Science. the Supreme Being, understood as Life, Truth, Love, Mind, Soul, Spirit, Principle.

- (lowercase) an image of a deity; an idol.

- (lowercase) any deified person or object.
That is not the formal definition, that is just the Christian God.

If we go to India there are people that worship Shiva by getting high. We call it "I'm so high right now" they call it "Shiva". Just because these are not Gods that fit the Christian definition does not mean they are not Gods.
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
The first Atheists were "Atheos" in Rome and Greece. These were people that rejected the popular Gods. Back then the MAIN atheos were Jews and Christians, because they worship the God you defined. And that is not a God. That is Atheism.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
The presup is when a Christian asks you "What is your world view" then they ask "What do you use to rationalize your world view?" or something like that. You say "My Reasoning" and they say "What do you use to make sure that is correct?" and you say "My reasoning". And they say "You have no basis for Morality or even logic without God, and you therefor are incapable of reasoning"
Seems like a pretty clear win to me..

All Ten seems to say is that you can't be moral without God because morality comes from God, Dillahunty is correct when he says morality comes from reason
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
That is not the formal definition, that is just the Christian God.

If we go to India there are people that worship Shiva by getting high. We call it "I'm so high right now" they call it "Shiva". Just because these are not Gods that fit the Christian definition does not mean they are not Gods.
The second definition refers to any religion;

"the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam. (or Christianity, or Judaism, or Jainism, or Greek mythology, or ... you get the point)
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
Seems like a pretty clear win to me..

All Ten seems to say is that you can't be moral without God because morality comes from God, Dillahunty is correct when he says morality comes from reason
You are simplifying it too much and taking out all nuance, and this is what is called confirmation bias.

I agree, Sye Ten is an idiot and he is wrong. But I disagree that Matt "clearly won" to anyone watching, or even to Sye Ten. I am pretty sure there were no Christians that left there thinking "Maybe God isn't real", they all left thinking "We have morals and they live in the Matrix". That is not a "Clear win".
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
The first Atheists were "Atheos" in Rome and Greece. These were people that rejected the popular Gods. Back then the MAIN atheos were Jews and Christians, because they worship the God you defined. And that is not a God. That is Atheism.
You cannot be an atheist if you believe in God, any god/s.

"Atheist" literally means "without gods"
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
The second definition refers to any religion;

"the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam. (or Christianity, or Judaism, or Jainism, or Greek mythology, or ... you get the point)
So are you now telling me that my God doesn't fit your definition of God, so it's not a God, but it's a god.

See, this is why I don't debate atheists, you are not willing to accept new information, you are only defending your beliefs . Atheism is almost as bad as Christianity now. I was Atheist in Highschool, but damn am I glad I found Shiva.
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
You cannot be an atheist if you believe in God, any god/s.

"Atheist" literally means "without gods"
That is true today. But I am talking about the root of the word "Atheist" since you decided that this was a debate about Formality and not substance.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
You are simplifying it too much and taking out all nuance, and this is what is called confirmation bias.

I agree, Sye Ten is an idiot and he is wrong. But I disagree that Matt "clearly won" to anyone watching, or even to Sye Ten. I am pretty sure there were no Christians that left there thinking "Maybe God isn't real", they all left thinking "We have morals and they live in the Matrix". That is not a "Clear win".
There's your problem, no amount of debate will make a Christian doubt Christianity, that's the exact purpose of faith

That's not what wins the debate. You win the debate by presenting better answers than your opponent, and Dillahunty very clearly did that

There is no confirmation bias in that answer
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
Atheist comes from "Atheos" which was talking about the Jews and Christians, because they "Had no Gods" and worshiped Israel and Jesus.
 

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
There's your problem, no amount of debate will make a Christian doubt Christianity, that's the exact purpose of faith

That's not what wins the debate. You win the debate by presenting better answers than your opponent, and Dillahunty very clearly did that

There is no confirmation bias in that answer
By saying "God does not give us morals, and Reasoning does, so Matt won" you are showing confirmation bias.

People don't win debates by being right, they win debates by proving the other person wrong. You can't have a "Clear win" as you yourself put it, without someone actually being proven wrong.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
So are you now telling me that my God doesn't fit your definition of God, so it's not a God, but it's a god.

See, this is why I don't debate atheists, you are not willing to accept new information, you are only defending your beliefs . Atheism is almost as bad as Christianity now. I was Atheist in Highschool, but damn am I glad I found Shiva.
What you are referring to as "Gods" are not Gods because they do not fit the formal definitions. You don't get to just pick random words and say that's what things are. What's stopping me from calling my dog a cat? It wouldn't fit the formal definition.
 
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