Israel. Oh yeah this makes sense

earnest_voice

Well-Known Member
UK, France, Germany, and so on.

I suspect all of the usual players have their intelligence officers in place.

Just because the Mossad does it the best doesn't make it a bigger offense. ;)

Allies and enemies spy on each other alike, this is the game of nation hood.
Allies do spy on each other to a limited degree. These days it is done by diplomats etc as there are really no domestic subversive groups that require a foreign intelligence agency to monitor them or interact with them. The host countries apparatus is, in most cases, sufficiently tasked/resourced with handling those kinds of things. Most allies actually have agreements in place not to conduct covert operations against each other

Mossad goes well above the accepted norms, they frequently use duplicate passports of foreign nationals that are still alive. A big concern for western governments is Israels use of dual nationals - Some countries allow you to legally change your name once a year, mossad exploits this by having their foreign assets change names, gain a new passport to allow them to travel to countries where an Israeli citizen would be denied entry.

The pro Israel groups also seem to be intertwined with Mossad, some of their members were convicted of passing classified US documents to Israel, they were not registered with Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA)
 

Holylander

Well-Known Member
just one of those dead giveaways.
Well I replied to your comment above, and tried to address your concerns. Hopefully you will read it. It would be quite upsetting to 1.2 million Palestinian Israeli Arabs, the way they are dismissed in this fashion here as not being Palestinians! I afford them that respect, they are my fellow citizens, Palestinian Israelis. They identify as such. This minor detail is not so minor and is being overlooked by many here -> My 1st paragraph talking about Palestinians who helped build our country, who chose Israel and to be Israelis, that everyone has conveniently dismissed in my 'racism against Palestinians'. The real dead giveaway was that the 1st thing I said, was that Palestinian Israelis are full valued members of Israeli society. While other Palestinians have chosen stagnation and conflict, and violence. The point was the contrast between these 2 realities and that Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank could be as successful and advanced and contribute both to themselves and the world just as their Israeli brothers have, if only they so chose, but the tragedy is that they don't.

That's not racism, contrasting between Palestinians themselves: Israeli Palestinians, contrasted to Gazan Palestinians, and West Bank Palestinians. Because they are all Palestinians.
 

AlecTheGardener

Well-Known Member
Well I replied to your comment above, and tried to address your concerns. Hopefully you will read it. It would be quite upsetting to 1.2 million Palestinian Israeli Arabs, the way they are dismissed in this fashion here as not being Palestinians! I afford them that respect, they are my fellow citizens, Palestinian Israelis. They identify as such. This minor detail is not so minor and is being overlooked by many here -> My 1st paragraph talking about Palestinians who helped build our country, who chose Israel and to be Israelis, that everyone has conveniently dismissed in my 'racism against Palestinians'. The real dead giveaway was that the 1st thing I said, was that Palestinian Israelis are full valued members of Israeli society. While other Palestinians have chosen stagnation and conflict, and violence. The point was the contrast between these 2 realities and that Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank could be as successful and advanced and contribute both to themselves and the world just as their Israeli brothers have, if only they so chose, but the tragedy is that they don't.

That's not racism, contrasting between Palestinians themselves: Israeli Palestinians, contrasted to Gazan Palestinians, and West Bank Palestinians. Because they are all Palestinians.
Out if context and a deflection.

Nice! A rare talent to try and pull off two together in the same cyclic-say-nothing post.


I was specifically identifying Palestinian Israelis who have citizenship and the Palestinians who live outside if Israel who do not. If you wish to put words in my mouth you may take credit for them friend.

You deflect like some sort of device . . . For deflecting . . . So good!

Where did you learn to deflect like that? It comes off so natural, do you use a leave in conditioner

What about your nations leading political party?

Some charter eh?

Crazy that it DIRECTLY compared to Hamas'.

You could go so far as to say they both kill innocents who are underserving of their violence and hatred.
 

Holylander

Well-Known Member
Nice chatting with ya, come back when you can respond with inputs and not deflections.
I responded to every point. I addressed both Palestinian who are Israelis, and those whom are not specifically. Including every other point in your post You responded to none, and then talked about deflection.. Anyone who choses to read the posts can see for themselves. It's quite clear actually.

*Edit - I will add, the whole part about your selective critique of Israel, but not Palestinian governments (as a non fan of governments) was ignored, deflected as you would say.
 

skunkd0c

Well-Known Member
The point was the contrast between these 2 realities and that Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank could be as successful and advanced and contribute both to themselves and the world just as their Israeli brothers have, if only they so chose, but the tragedy is that they don't.
This is not unique, its quite similar to the situation long ago between Ireland, Northern Ireland and England

the same kind of sentiments would of been expressed
"why will those barbaric people not join us"
"we will give them citizenship and rights, bring them out of the dark ages"

some of them will join some will not , try to accept this as their freedom of choice
rather than looking at them as barbaric and non progressive

if you are not with us you are against us ?
 

AlecTheGardener

Well-Known Member
I responded to every point. I addressed both Palestinian who are Israelis, and those whom are not specifically. Including every other point in your post You responded to none, and then talked about deflection.. Anyone who choses to read the posts can see for themselves. It's quite clear actually.

*Edit - I will add, the whole part about your selective critique of Israel, but not Palestinian governments (as a non fan of governments) was ignored, deflected as you would say.
I will respond again, both of your governments are trash.

I compared both governments, both are violent warmongering assholes who what to control the people who voted them there.

The chief parties of each group hate and despise each other. The actively pursue destruction of one another.

My critique was directly with the Israeli government because they are the ones imposing apartheid like conditions upon Palestinians who live in Gaza, etc.

You tried to confuse me and wiggle away by differentiating, that is the reason for the apartheid.

You completely miss this it seems.
 

AlecTheGardener

Well-Known Member
I responded to every point. I addressed both Palestinian who are Israelis, and those whom are not specifically. Including every other point in your post You responded to none, and then talked about deflection.. Anyone who choses to read the posts can see for themselves. It's quite clear actually.

*Edit - I will add, the whole part about your selective critique of Israel, but not Palestinian governments (as a non fan of governments) was ignored, deflected as you would say.
You never mentioned the charters. Please explain how the parties are different.

Their charters could almost be mixed up if you replaced words like Zion, Allah, etc that would identify them religiously.

Two murdering governments, like peas in a pod.
 

Holylander

Well-Known Member
Nice chatting with ya, come back when you can respond with inputs and not deflections.
You never mentioned the charters. Please explain how the parties are different.

Their charters could almost be mixed up if you replaced words like Zion, Allah, etc that would identify them religiously.

Two murdering governments, like peas in a pod.
You seem to have this major issue with the government of Israel, what you really mean is the Likud party, and what you seem to misunderstand is that the govt of Israel is a coalition of parties, including the big dove of Israel, Tzipi Livni. The Government of Israel, including Likud official position is the support of a 2 state solution. This is not debatable, it's a fact.

As for the charter of the govt of Israel it is quite clear in its principles and is right here : http://www.knesset.gov.il/docs/eng/megilat_eng.htm
There's nothing untoward about it, Hamas' charter calls for the murder of all Jews. The comparison is absurd.
 

Holylander

Well-Known Member
This is not unique, its quite similar to the situation long ago between Ireland, Northern Ireland and England

the same kind of sentiments would of been expressed
"why will those barbaric people not join us"
"we will give them citizenship and rights, bring them out of the dark ages"

some of them will join some will not , try to accept this as their freedom of choice
rather than looking at them as barbaric and non progressive

if you are not with us you are against us ?
I think understand your point, I think we also maybe have a miscommunication which is understandable too these are complex issues for a forum. The choice I tried to outline for Gaza and West Bank Palestinians is not to join Israel, or Israeli Arabs/Palestinians. They will never do so clearly, and I can understand why. The choice I am outlining that they have been rejecting so far, is to merely embrace peace, and end to the conflict, a Palestinian state recognized by not only Israel but the whole world in return for peace. IE the peace deals they have been offered and reject in favor of continual conflict/war.

This is not just my position, or Israel's, it is the position of most of the world, including all the other Arab States (save maybe Syria + Persian Iran). A position wholly rejected wholesale by Hamas/Gaza who seek total destruction of Israel, and equally sadly until now these deals have also been rejected by the Palestinian Authority, 1st by Yasser Arafat, now by Mahmoud Abbas. I believe that the majority of West Bank Palestinians would embrace this, but Mahmoud Abbas would probably be killed if he did, by Palestinian extremists, namely Hamas. So It seems far off still.
 

AlecTheGardener

Well-Known Member
You seem to have this major issue with the government of Israel, what you really mean is the Likud party, and what you seem to misunderstand is that the govt of Israel is a coalition of parties, including the big dove of Israel, Tzipi Livni. The Government of Israel, including Likud official position is the support of a 2 state solution. This is not debatable, it's a fact.

As for the charter of the govt of Israel it is quite clear in its principles and is right here : http://www.knesset.gov.il/docs/eng/megilat_eng.htm
There's nothing untoward about it, Hamas' charter calls for the murder of all Jews. The comparison is absurd.
Fuck! Again!
Your shield is fuckin' vibranium dude.

Gotcha, I do not know the language so I am misplacing my blame in my confusion. My point still stands that the Likud party charter clearly states that it cannot stand for a two state option.

The US is also composed of multiple parties, I was projecting the powers our executive branch can execute, my mistake.
 

AlecTheGardener

Well-Known Member
I think understand your point, I think we also maybe have a miscommunication which is understandable too these are complex issues for a forum. The choice I tried to outline for Gaza and West Bank Palestinians is not to join Israel, or Israeli Arabs/Palestinians. They will never do so clearly, and I can understand why. The choice I am outlining that they have been rejecting so far, is to merely embrace peace, and end to the conflict, a Palestinian state recognized by not only Israel but the whole world in return for peace. IE the peace deals they have been offered and reject in favor of continual conflict/war.

This is not just my position, or Israel's, it is the position of most of the world, including all the other Arab States (save maybe Syria + Persian Iran). A position wholly rejected wholesale by Hamas/Gaza who seek total destruction of Israel, and equally sadly until now these deals have also been rejected by the Palestinian Authority, 1st by Yasser Arafat, now by Mahmoud Abbas. I believe that the majority of West Bank Palestinians would embrace this, but Mahmoud Abbas would probably be killed if he did, by Palestinian extremists, namely Hamas. So It seems far off still.
This I agree on.

Also, yes forums are difficult to get proper tone and intended message. Body language is lost completely.
 

Holylander

Well-Known Member
Fuck! Again!
Your shield is fuckin' vibranium dude.

Gotcha, I do not know the language so I am misplacing my blame in my confusion. My point still stands that the Likud party charter clearly states that it cannot stand for a two state option. The US is also composed of multiple parties, I was projecting the powers our executive branch can execute, my mistake.
The Likud platform rejects a 2 state solution, I am not shielding anything. I gave you the charter for the State of Israel, not one of its 25 political parties which you are singling out. So the Prime Minister Netanyahu (who embraces a 2 state solution) is from the Likud party which doesn't want one, but Likud party does not run the govt, that isn't how Israel's political system works. The various parties whatever their own various positions, must conform to the jointly agreed official position of the Government in order to be a part of the coalition in the 1st place. You are hitting on a straw man, because the government position is full open support of a 2 state solution, and that same govt just finished attempted peace talks to that end less than 3 months ago just before the Palestinians formed a unity govt with the Hamas terror org. Further, the Likud charter in no way shape manner or form calls for the death, murder or killing of anybody.
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Haha, apartheid. What comedy show you are. Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza have full autonomy, they control their own elections, governments, their own financial systems, they have their own passports, they control their education system, taxation, they control their own justice system, police, and security forces, they have their own full self determination, local and state govt. The only thing they do not control is their borders, because Jordan and Egypt and Israel have agreed that it's too dangerous, insecure until these autonomous Palestinians can accept peace, Israel, and receive formal statehood, which if you read my informative post above they have rejected numerous times n favor of continued perpetual conflict. Nice try though, unfortunately I'm a little more informed LIVING HERE than the usual rube.
Full autonomy?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHSHSHSHSHAHWHWHWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

I hope Isis wipe retarded fuckers like you out.

Even most normal Israelis are starting to feel disgust at the bloodshed in Gaza.
 

greenlikemoney

Well-Known Member
The Likud platform rejects a 2 state solution, I am not shielding anything. I gave you the charter for the State of Israel, not one of its 25 political parties which you are singling out. So the Prime Minister Netanyahu (who embraces a 2 state solution) is from the Likud party which doesn't want one, but Likud party does not run the govt, that isn't how Israel's political system works. The various parties whatever their own various positions, must conform to the jointly agreed official position of the Government in order to be a part of the coalition in the 1st place. You are hitting on a straw man, because the government position is full open support of a 2 state solution, and that same govt just finished attempted peace talks to that end less than 3 months ago just before the Palestinians formed a unity govt with the Hamas terror org. Further, the Likud charter in no way shape manner or form calls for the death, murder or killing of anybody.
You'll never convince anyone ( i.e. brainwashed liberals who only know what they have been told they know ) here who is arguing with you. You're wasting your time.
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Except UncleBuck it is sadly true, it isn't pleasant to hear or watch granted I agree. I wish it were otherwise, but if someone can name a contribution from this now almost 10 year old independent Palestinian entity known as Gaza I'm all ears. The whole world is willing to pitch in, excited I would say even to help them including Israel, which supplies aid to Gaza, including water and electricity and medicine and food. Nothing is holding them back except themselves. Keep in mind, I am a citizen of Israel and tens of thousands of rockets have been launched at me from that place with the express intent of killing me.

Yet I still support supplying and aiding them, a rather unique thing. These aren't my buddies, I don't sugar coat. If they were electing terrorists trying to kill you, you might be harsh in your descriptions as well. I am always open to hear what their contribution has been other than the 3 wars I mentioned, in 2009, 2012, and last month to their endless detriment and mine. I am a resoanble person who desires peace and quiet and open to hearing from reasonable people, not the anti semite upvoting in this thread earnest_voice.
So why'd Israel attack an aid convoy in international waters that was carrying medical supplies and bags of concrete?

They killed unarmed aid workers, like dirty pirates.
 
Top