Enter The Scrog/Scroggers United Post Page

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
Red and White Cedar as far as I know. Cost can certainly be an issue for most folks. I can suggest countless materials that work just fine in its place. I do enjoy the cedar and use it in outdoors locations where little else lasts. For me it’s just nice. Flower boxes, seedling tables, arbors, lattice/ trellis, closet shelves, siding, shingles, dressers, etc.
 

ninjagaiden

Well-Known Member
learning about SCROG, thanks for putting this post together! Was wondering, so basically all you are doing is guiding the tip of the plant to it stays under the screen right? Where ever leaves grow will hopefully rise up to go through the screen or with a little bit of coaxing with string.

Is this correct? or are you actually weaving the tip of the plan up and through the screen then back down?

thanks
 

businessmen

Active Member
Sometimes as Ive learned it is more helpful to weave under and over and under. From reading scrog how to's I didnt know that, but some of the guys here do it. I doubted that you needed to until my first attempt here. Its obvious once you get a few weeks in that you need to weave!
 

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
Weaving is actually what I discourage. Several reasons but here are a few: The basket it leaves for you to remove in the end is a pain in the ass. The plant is less pliable and thus less workable when crowding begins and the need to move branches occurs (not all plants will grow the same and you wont predict them all however, you can work them all if you plan for it). Weaving requires sturdy screen of which is not always used or preferable.

I suggest training you’re plants to become bushes prior to screening; this can be done more efficiently using other methods rather than using the screen to accomplish LST. (Read up on the method, it should be your first step in training for scrog.) Learning how to manipulate the plants growth pattern via light stretch (moving the lights away from the canopy to result in stretch between internodes) and various response techniques, LST, FIMM, Topping, Super cropping, etc. take time and experience to master. Experience knowing the strains used, the environment that you are growing in, how the environmental controls such as nutrients and additive will effect each plant how and when, how what lighting will effect the plant and why etc. are all things that greatly effect the outcome of every crop and create the successful professional. Though it may always seem that there is an easy way to master anything and everything, those that have will tell you it took time to create experience and there is no easier way around that.
In soil, I drill holes at every quarter inch around the top of my pot/bucket. I use those holes as an anchor point for pliable yet sturdy stainless steel wire to attach. I then use the appropriate length to secure a branch or stem that I have pulled down and away from center, in order to bring the tops of each to the same height as the lower parts of the plant on a horizontal plane. The result is light penetration to all the lower and newer internodes and growth (each node is a bud site/top) and a natural response of vigorous growth from all parts of the plant via the stress.
Hydro, I use improvised anchor points to accomplish the same effect. Typically training is less aggressive in hydroponics. Branches tend to snap more easily and thus furthers the need for larger clones from a pre trained and already “bushed” mother. I take 3 to 4 foot clones from mothers that have branches fully bushed ready for the screen size and dimensions I plan to run. Once the clones have rooted, they are introduced to a screen. I spend a few weeks allowing the plant to adjust and fill however the clone’s size prior to introduction is as large as it needs to be to fill the space, just not the right “shape” if you will. Once the plant has filled the screen and has become the level plane that we are looking for, flowering begins. It is typically those few weeks before that point that I do all of the “Scogging”.
Basically I have boiled it down to a few weeks of “Screen training”. The rest is pre training mothers, and budding. Or pre-training seed plants in order to be large enough to fill a screen and skip veg screen time.
 

KayAreOEnnEyeSee

Active Member
Woodsman... would it make much of a difference in yeild for a personal grower to take the time to tie down a plant (LST style) in many places rather than to use a screen? What I'm really trying to ask is could the screen just a replacement for a ton of tiedown points?
 

businessmen

Active Member
I think the screen is more consistant. And an excellent template or guide so you dont shortchange yourself and flower too soon. Before all of your horizontal space in the light field is filled. Its easy to see your screen isnt filled when your hand placing a bud in every hole, but with LST you might tie a branch down every direction and think it looks full, with all the fan leaves filling up your room.

Ive been braking branches lately weaving in flower. THey get so stiff. Lukily theyve all hung on by a part of the skin and Ive taped them back up to heal. I'll have to do even more Scraining next time, thanks woodsman.
 

businessmen

Active Member
So Ive got a strain thats taking forever to train, its a very short indica. I think I need to stretch it in a bad way. Im also veggin outside since the days are long, and my grow are is still very limited indoors. (I know its risky, but I spray some oil/pyrethrin before bringing them back in) You think putting it in full shade would work good to stretch those nodes out?

Also for some crazy reason my plants are wanting to flower outside, even tho the days are as long as can be. Only thing I can think is I keep taking clones from clones instead of mothers, cus Im a small grow. And I end up taking them a few weeks into flower.... Messed them up somehow? Take a look at this thread real quick if you can please, thanks guys! https://www.rollitup.org/outdoor-growing/338781-my-plants-flowering-why.html
 

mrboots

Well-Known Member
i dont think putting them in the shade will streach them out, I dont know what to say about them flowering early, but shouldnt that streach them out? I take clones from plants that are a few weeks into flower all the time and have never had that happen, they go back into veg right about when they get rooted. If your plants are big enough to get a good yeild, I would just roll with it, If they are too small to get much off of i would still roll with it, I would just get some more seeds/clones going. keep us posted on what happens with you plants.
 

businessmen

Active Member
Thanks, Im bringing them inside and leaving a light on in the house all night to snap em outa it. One plant is almost ready, Im giving her 3 nights inside since shes not quite ready, and then into flower.
 

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
My experience with LST bushes for scrog: When a stem is "supper cropped" there is damage to the inner core of the plants branch. The repairs made by the plant are a response mechanism that can also be achieved through aggressive bending without the actual damage to the plant. In supper cropping, most folks soon realize that the repair done by the plant is quick and the response is aggressive. The same is true of LST however, the response is uniform and throughout the entirety of the plant. During the first part of vegetative growth my plants receive a main stem bend that I do by hand. I am trying to achieve an even curve that leaves the top nearly touching the surface of the growing medium. I typically use stainless steel wire do this. The response is seen within a few hours when the plants leafs begin to turn and receive light at a normal position horizontally. Within a short period of time after, the plants branches from the base of the main stem to the top begin to shoot outward from the plant in order to become the new top. I view it like a competition for first place. When the actual winner of the race (the top) is pulled back below, the rest compete to be the top with great speed. The focus of the training efforts then is reverted to similar practice on all branches with an emphasis on overall symmetry (ie. “Bush”).

Now, to answer many other questions with a concept that points out the obvious:
The fastest flowering plant is say 40-50 days. Now I am quite sure the better scrog plants are not in that range but maybe say 50-60 respectively. Even in that short time frame of 40-50 days, you can train quite a bush. So it boils down to this: What can you do with a plant in the time frame that it takes you to finish flowering your plants a step ahead in your cycle? Or further, what is the fastest way to get your clones to fill your space in that time? I would like to see a plant fill my screen in 60 days with only the help of a screen! I would certainly pay well for that strain, granted its better medically than that which I already use. J

I would suggest to the new scrogger however, learning to understand how your light and hood create a foot print with a shape. Light is measured in intensity and thus learn to use the shape of the foot print, and the distance necessary, to deliver equal lumens at the same or near intensity to all parts of the growing surface area. And rather than trying to fill a screen in that space, try to create a plant that fills the space. Then screen the plant and let the focus be on adjustments and growing buds vertically to fill the space between the screen and height restrictions of your growing area. That is complete maximization of space available in my opinion, the point of scrog. (not: scrog = screening/trellising a plant).
 

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
I would suggest leaving your plants unless conditions suggest otherwise. I don’t know how long your plants have been reverting from being a clone off a flowering plant, but it could take several weeks depending on numerous variables. Roots don’t mean veg. You can clone and root under a flowering light cycle. We can see the obvious that’s working against us in that scenario and thus use a vegetative cycle typically, but the point is roots happen regardless.
 

businessmen

Active Member
Thank you for answering. I will take clones in veg from now on. But they revegged a few weeks. They started a few inches tall, under 20/4 indoor light. Moved outside under about 16/8 natural light as soon as they started growing and they vegged to the point where they reached my 8 inch tall screen and started filling it in. Then they started flowering. They arent stopping yet either, and theyve been coming in at night under a light. One Im going to let flower now, shes filled the screen nicely, it had 3 nights inside with the others, dont know if that did anything. Luckily that one hasnt shown any hermie inclinations ever....

Id love to see some more pictures of your techniques, are you saving them all for your book? I want to see those 3 foot clones! I keep taking clones too small also I think, and takes forever to root. Do you think putting my short indica in complete shade outside would stretch it?
 

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
Ive been braking branches lately weaving in flower. THey get so stiff. Lukily theyve all hung on by a part of the skin and Ive taped them back up to heal. I'll have to do even more Scraining next time, thanks woodsman.[/QUOTE]

I agree scraining will help you lessen the need for training when flowering. You are right in that branches become easier to break once flowering begins. You should also be able to see then that weaving is not as effective and greatly increases your chance of problems. Your plants will be fine and your yield should be similar regardless of how you achieved the full screen, however it can be easier! ;)
 

CabinetBuds

Active Member
This thread is AMAZING!!!

From what we have learned in a small environment, we will use the screen to tie down the plants so they can be further adjusted during veg and flower. I guess this is a combination of scrog and LST!!! I am not sure how this will work for us but we plan on growing up through the screen then tieing it down and moving it across the top of the screen until its full. Our first attempt seems to be going very well and our second will be Scrog/LST

Thanks for all the helpful insight!!
 

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
Thank you for answering. I will take clones in veg from now on. But they revegged a few weeks. They started a few inches tall, under 20/4 indoor light. Moved outside under about 16/8 natural light as soon as they started growing and they vegged to the point where they reached my 8 inch tall screen and started filling it in. Then they started flowering. They arent stopping yet either, and theyve been coming in at night under a light. One Im going to let flower now, shes filled the screen nicely, it had 3 nights inside with the others, dont know if that did anything. Luckily that one hasnt shown any hermie inclinations ever....

Id love to see some more pictures of your techniques, are you saving them all for your book? I want to see those 3 foot clones! I keep taking clones too small also I think, and takes forever to root. Do you think putting my short indica in complete shade outside would stretch it?

We are saving as many as we can for the book; we need thousands and thousands to choose from. Its very time consuming. We are learning all about how hours can be spent trying to achieve the one shot your looking for. I would be happy to do a tutorial however I need a bit of time before I will be able to get that together. I commend Subcool on his ability to multi task and manage the infinite amount of things he has going, I am far different.
 

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
This thread is AMAZING!!!

From what we have learned in a small environment, we will use the screen to tie down the plants so they can be further adjusted during veg and flower. I guess this is a combination of scrog and LST!!! I am not sure how this will work for us but we plan on growing up through the screen then tieing it down and moving it across the top of the screen until its full. Our first attempt seems to be going very well and our second will be Scrog/LST

Thanks for all the helpful insight!!
Certainly! Thanks for your visit and response. I agree it will work. As I have said before, once the concept of what is being achieved by doing a scrog is understood, you can make it your own. Make it adapted to your own preferences and circumstances. GL and I hope you can swing us a few photos some time! Thanks again.
 

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
Businessmen: "I will take clones in veg from now on"

I have found that taking clones in the first week or two of flowering gains faster rooting responses. I believe it is related to the vigor that the plant exhibits during that time (aka preflowering stretch).
 

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
I am so ridiculously warped on a friends hybrid I am having trouble wrapping my brain around your questions enough to create an intelligent response....Ill return shortly .:eyesmoke:

WhiteRhino x ArjansUltraHaze X Blue Mystic x Haze = Dumb dumb feeling.
 
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