An Open And Civil Debate Before 11:00 AM

Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
jahbrudda said:
Curious, was Obama and the dems losing the past six years?
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I find it deliciously ironic that all the Dems here were in UPROAR about how bad fracking is and how it ruins the environment...

Yet it starts to filter through and all of a sudden the price at the pump drops and it's "thanks Obama!!".
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
jahbrudda said:
Your original argument was that the pipeline would be detrimental to the environment, I supplied a citation from the state department that counters your claim, are you refuting it?

Now you jump to the subject of jobs since your environmental argument fell flat on it's face.
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Padawanbater2 said:
"Approximately 4,715 acres of prime farmland soil would be directly impacted by construction of the proposed pipeline."

"The proposed Project would impact waterbodies across the states of Montana, South Dakota, and Nebraska. The proposed Project route would avoid surface water whenever possible; however, the proposed Project route would still cross approximately 1,073 waterbodies, including 56 perennial rivers and streams, as well as approximately 25 miles of mapped floodplains."

http://keystonepipeline-xl.state.gov/documents/organization/205719.pdf

The potential environmental issues go from ES-8 - ES-11 in that report from the State Dept., and that doesn't include the endangered animals risk, so when you say they say it's 100% safe, that's a lie. That's not what the State Dept. reports.
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jahbrudda said:
So lets look at your job claim argument.

Anyone with a little common sense could figure out that "37 permanent jobs in maintenance and inspection"
refers to just those specific jobs in maintaining and inspecting the pipeline itself.

The 37 permanent job meme doesn't account for residual jobs.

The pipeline ends in Houston TX where it will be refined.
Adding 500,000 barrels a day of crude oil that needs to be refined.
That alone creates thousands of permeant jobs, dipshit
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Show me evidence of "thousands of permanent jobs", every single source, even the one you provided says 37 jobs. No other source available says "thousands of permanent jobs", you're a liar.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
nitro harley said:
Pada.

Sense when is 41,000 jobs a bad thing? I don't get it. It sounds like it will be built whether the Dems like it or not because most of it is done already. I happen to burn fuel for a living so I hope it floods the market and keeps the price down for everybody. Win/Win.
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The oil/gas enriches TransCanada, not the USA. It does nothing for American citizens except pollute our environment and cost us money. You only support it because Republicans do and you're a partisan citizen like jahbrudda (beenthere) is. You two have no reasons for supporting it other than because the republicans do, and you don't want to admit it because you know it would prove it.

No permanent jobs, bad for the environment, Americans pay for it and don't get anything in return and it enriches another corporation, everything republicans love.
 
nitro harley

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
The oil/gas enriches TransCanada, not the USA. It does nothing for American citizens except pollute our environment and cost us money. You only support it because Republicans do and you're a partisan citizen like jahbrudda (beenthere) is. You two have no reasons for supporting it other than because the republicans do, and you don't want to admit it because you know it would prove it.

No permanent jobs, bad for the environment, Americans pay for it and don't get anything in return and it enriches another corporation, everything republicans love.
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Pada.

If I were you I would be kissing Canada's ass for supplying such a great resource. You might want to look up how much oil we burn that comes from Canada. Or would you rather buy it from the arabs?

You sound like you have a strong opinion of a Democratic talking point instead of common sense. This pipe line is almost done already and next month it will have another vote and then it will pass and life goes on. There is nothing you can say that will change that fact. I burn 250 gallons of diesel per day when I work so crude oil is very important to me, the more that is available world wide will keep prices down, if there is less it will cost more.. See how that works?
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
nitro harley said:
Pada.

If I were you I would be kissing Canada's ass for supplying such a great resource. You might want to look up how much oil we burn that comes from Canada. Or would you rather buy it from the arabs?

You sound like you have a strong opinion of a Democratic talking point instead of common sense. This pipe line is almost done already and next month it will have another vote and then it will pass and life goes on. There is nothing you can say that will change that fact. I burn 250 gallons of diesel per day when I work so crude oil is very important to me, the more that is available world wide will keep prices down, if there is less it will cost more.. See how that works?
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All the oil coming from Canada through keystone is being exported, it's not being used by America. Perhaps you should do a little bit of research. You won't see a drop of that shit.
 
nitro harley

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
All the oil coming from Canada through keystone is being exported, it's not being used by America. Perhaps you should do a little bit of research. You won't see a drop of that shit.
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Pada.

I could care less if it is exported. When it hits the world market it affects the price right here in america and all around the world. You got to know that. If you don't there is nothing I could do for you.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
The oil/gas enriches TransCanada, not the USA. It does nothing for American citizens except pollute our environment and cost us money. You only support it because Republicans do and you're a partisan citizen like jahbrudda (beenthere) is. You two have no reasons for supporting it other than because the republicans do, and you don't want to admit it because you know it would prove it.

No permanent jobs, bad for the environment, Americans pay for it and don't get anything in return and it enriches another corporation, everything republicans love.
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If for no other reason that to cut into the OPEC cartel, it's worth it.

You are missing that pesky supply and demand LAW (not a theory). The world benefits from decreased prices with increased supply. OPEC is knocked down a peg.

I want stringent testing though, no seepage, no water supply contamination. If that's proven to be negligible then it's a slam dunk.
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
http://keystonepipeline-xl.state.gov/documents/organization/221135.pdf

Sorry for not being able to link this, but it's the US State Dept study. It's pretty fascinating actually. Here is who was involved and they disagree with Mr. Worstall

United States Department of State
Final
Supplemental
Environmental Impact Statement
For the
KEYSTONE XL PROJECT
Applicant for Presidential Permit:
TransCanada Keystone Pipeline, LP
Executive Summary
Genevieve Walker
Project Manager
United States Department of State
Bureau of Oceans and International Environmental
and Scientific Affairs
2201 C Street NW, Room 2726
Washington, DC 20520
Cooperating Agencies
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE)
U.S. Department of Agriculture—
Farm Service Agency
(FSA)
U.S. Department of Agriculture—
Natural Resource Conservation Service (NRCS)
U.S. Department of Agriculture—
Rural Utilities Service (RUS)
U.S. Department of Energy
(DOE)
U.S. Department of Interior—Bureau of Land Management (BLM)
U.S. Department of Interior—
National Park Service (NPS)
U.S. Department of Interior—U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS)
U.S. Department of Transportation—Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration,
Office of Pipeline Safety (PHMSA)
U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (
USEPA)
Assisting Agencies
U.S. Department of the Interior, Bureau of Reclamation
(BOR)
Nebraska Department of Environmental Quality (NDEQ)
Various State and Local Agencies in Montana, South Dakota, Nebraska, and Kansas
 
jahbrudda

jahbrudda

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Show me evidence of "thousands of permanent jobs", every single source, even the one you provided says 37 jobs. No other source available says "thousands of permanent jobs", you're a liar.
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Are you kidding me?
500,000 barrels a day to be refined in south texas and you can't figure it out.
 
jahbrudda

jahbrudda

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
All the oil coming from Canada through keystone is being exported, it's not being used by America. Perhaps you should do a little bit of research. You won't see a drop of that shit.
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Obama says Keystone XL is for exporting oil outside the U.S., experts disagree.

"America gets more crude oil from Canada than any other country. Nearly all of Canada’s exports go to the United States, and this accounts for about a thirdof America’s total crude oil imports. Much of its oil already makes it to the United States by rail and existing pipelines.

We asked several energy economics experts, and they believe that quite a bit -- if not most -- of the Keystone XL crude oil will be bought and used by American refineries."http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/nov/20/barack-obama/obama-says-keystone-xl-exporting-oil-experts-disag/
 
heckler73

heckler73

Well-Known Member
CDN$1.279 per Liter * 3.785 Liters/Gallon * 0.89 US$/CDN$ = US$4.308 /Gal

That's considered "on sale" around here.

 
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