bernie and jane are lawyering up!

[Fogdog]

African Americans in droves support Sanders' message. You bury your head in the sand and ignore it because it opposes your false narrative

"in droves"

Funny how you would use that line to describe African American voters. Is a drove less than 30% of the "herd"?

 

[UncleBuck]

Less than half of all states had exit polling, so any analysis would be skewed to them.

Exit polling data mostly just look at race, gender, age and who the voter chose. One NBC poll showed that Bernie did better with young black voters and the analysis I read said that this was a problem for Bernie because young black voters aren't voting at any where near their proportion of the population. Even so, about 67% supported Clinton. Older black voters show up and they supported Clinton at higher proportions. But that's the only shred of analysis I could find that took a stab at ferreting out reasons using statistics, as flawed as those stats are. And, that bit about Sanders polling better with young black votes stretches the truth. In fact, a Sanders didn't do well with that group either.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/huge-split-between-older-younger-blacks-democratic-primary-n580996


Bottom line numbers:
In 21 states, the adjusted exit polls report the presidential preferences of the black portion of the Democratic electorate. In 10 of these 21 states, all in the South, Hillary Clinton reportedly received 80% to 91% of the black vote, and 67% to 75% elsewhere.

Between February 27 and March 8, primaries were held in nine southern states (Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia). In these nine primaries, Clinton won 499 pledged delegates to 212 for Sanders, a lead that has proven insurmountable.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/28/upshot/exit-polls-and-why-the-primary-was-not-stolen-from-bernie-sanders.html

Here's reference to what Sanders supporters' said about that and what the analyst thinks:

Clinton won every contest with at least a 10 percent black population, except Michigan, and each state where Latinos make up at least 10 percent of eligible voters, except Colorado, according to Harry Enten of FiveThirtyEight.com. On top of that, they have been mocked by some Sanders supporters for supposedly “voting against their self-interest” because they refuse to believe a political revolution is at hand.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-democrats-race-racial-divide-213948

Also from the same article:
“That refusal to accept the necessity of compromise in a winner-take-all two-party system (and an electorate in which conservatives still outnumber liberals) is characteristic of a certain idealistic style of left-wing politics. Its conception of voting as an act of performative virtue has largely confined itself to white left-wing politics, because it is at odds with the political tradition of a community that has always viewed political compromise as a practical necessity. The expectation that a politician should agree with you on everything is the ultimate expression of privilege.”

We don't have good analytical data and so have only commentator's views to help explain. Here is one from an African American who is or was a Sanders supporter:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/03/bernie-sanders-failure-diversity-hispanic-black-voters

An extract:
On Sunday, I went to Bernie Sanders’s press conference in Washington DC. As a black voter who has “felt the Bern”,

I left the press event extremely disappointed. Sanders lectured us about super-delegates. He obsessed over the possibility of Hillary Clinton failing to win enough pledged delegates. He spoke of a contested convention, and he recycled his well-worn talking points about inequality.

Two things he failed to mention: black and Hispanic voters, two constituencies whose support he has failed, repeatedly, to gain.

I get that he thinks the lives of people of color will be improved by reining in Wall Street, curbing financial inequality and confronting climate change. But any democratic socialist should know that the economic violence of capitalism is specifically gendered and racialized, that Wall Street explicitly harms black and brown people and that the effects of climatechange are racist. Indeed, Sanders knows this and his platforms address it.

How, then, can Sanders still be failing to talk about racism, anti-blackness and anti-Latino sentiment at every turn, especially heading into the primary in California, a state with more Latinos than whites? If you listen to what Sanders is actually saying in this late stage of the game, he seems much more interested in open primaries, independent voters and super-delegates than he is in voters of color or the disenfranchised. That’s unsettling.

The key criticism I've heard about Bernie from African Americans is they don't hear him talk about their issues. The same complaint was voiced by Vermont African Americans prior to the election season. It was as if they didn't exist, nor did their particular problems. As the author of the Guardian article said:

votes aren’t owed to anyone, and if Sanders doesn’t win the black vote, it’s his own fault (and, possibly, that of the people he has chosen to advise him). You can’t blame the Clintons – they have handed Sanders one unforced error after another

bernie sanders does not give one shit about hispanic or latino people.

i mean, he literally voted to dump vermont's nuclear waste in the hispanic town of sierra blanca texas. he voted against comprehgensive immigration reform, and he voted against raising visa caps.

he said racism was over because obama won and also said black people only liked obama because of "racial pride".

oh, and he believes in fluoride conspiracy theories.

bernie is a racist loon. i'm glad he is 97 years old and therefore ineligible to run again due to his mental health.

 

[Padawanbater2]

You mean my theory that you have never once rebuked any of the blatant and obvious racist trolls that have been posting all over the forum for years? You mean how you showed your disdain everytime I criticized privileged white guys and even made irate posts in my thread about it? You mean your MRA bullshit?

Just quit dude, you have been here a long time, we know you.

So it shouldn't be too hard for you to post examples of your accusation, then, right?

What's the hold up?

Let's see the evidence

 

[UncleBuck]

African Americans in droves support Sanders' message. You bury your head in the sand and ignore it because it opposes your false narrative

of the 374 majority black counties in the south, he won 4 of them.

who do you blame for that? bernie and his message, or do you blame black voters for having a "herd like mentality"?

 

[Padawanbater2]

"in droves"

Funny how you would use that line to describe African American voters. Is a drove less than 30% of the "herd"?

Now we can't use the word 'droves' in context of African Americans because you think it's somehow racist?

lol

 

[st0wandgrow]

Less than half of all states had exit polling, so any analysis would be skewed to them.

Exit polling data mostly just look at race, gender, age and who the voter chose. One NBC poll showed that Bernie did better with young black voters and the analysis I read said that this was a problem for Bernie because young black voters aren't voting at any where near their proportion of the population. Even so, about 67% supported Clinton. Older black voters show up and they supported Clinton at higher proportions. But that's the only shred of analysis I could find that took a stab at ferreting out reasons using statistics, as flawed as those stats are. And, that bit about Sanders polling better with young black votes stretches the truth. In fact, a Sanders didn't do well with that group either.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/huge-split-between-older-younger-blacks-democratic-primary-n580996


Bottom line numbers:
In 21 states, the adjusted exit polls report the presidential preferences of the black portion of the Democratic electorate. In 10 of these 21 states, all in the South, Hillary Clinton reportedly received 80% to 91% of the black vote, and 67% to 75% elsewhere.

Between February 27 and March 8, primaries were held in nine southern states (Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia). In these nine primaries, Clinton won 499 pledged delegates to 212 for Sanders, a lead that has proven insurmountable.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/28/upshot/exit-polls-and-why-the-primary-was-not-stolen-from-bernie-sanders.html

Here's reference to what Sanders supporters' said about that and what the analyst thinks:

Clinton won every contest with at least a 10 percent black population, except Michigan, and each state where Latinos make up at least 10 percent of eligible voters, except Colorado, according to Harry Enten of FiveThirtyEight.com. On top of that, they have been mocked by some Sanders supporters for supposedly “voting against their self-interest” because they refuse to believe a political revolution is at hand.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-democrats-race-racial-divide-213948

Also from the same article:
“That refusal to accept the necessity of compromise in a winner-take-all two-party system (and an electorate in which conservatives still outnumber liberals) is characteristic of a certain idealistic style of left-wing politics. Its conception of voting as an act of performative virtue has largely confined itself to white left-wing politics, because it is at odds with the political tradition of a community that has always viewed political compromise as a practical necessity. The expectation that a politician should agree with you on everything is the ultimate expression of privilege.”

We don't have good analytical data and so have only commentator's views to help explain. Here is one from an African American who is or was a Sanders supporter:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/03/bernie-sanders-failure-diversity-hispanic-black-voters

An extract:
On Sunday, I went to Bernie Sanders’s press conference in Washington DC. As a black voter who has “felt the Bern”,

I left the press event extremely disappointed. Sanders lectured us about super-delegates. He obsessed over the possibility of Hillary Clinton failing to win enough pledged delegates. He spoke of a contested convention, and he recycled his well-worn talking points about inequality.

Two things he failed to mention: black and Hispanic voters, two constituencies whose support he has failed, repeatedly, to gain.

I get that he thinks the lives of people of color will be improved by reining in Wall Street, curbing financial inequality and confronting climate change. But any democratic socialist should know that the economic violence of capitalism is specifically gendered and racialized, that Wall Street explicitly harms black and brown people and that the effects of climatechange are racist. Indeed, Sanders knows this and his platforms address it.

How, then, can Sanders still be failing to talk about racism, anti-blackness and anti-Latino sentiment at every turn, especially heading into the primary in California, a state with more Latinos than whites? If you listen to what Sanders is actually saying in this late stage of the game, he seems much more interested in open primaries, independent voters and super-delegates than he is in voters of color or the disenfranchised. That’s unsettling.

The key criticism I've heard about Bernie from African Americans is they don't hear him talk about their issues. The same complaint was voiced by Vermont African Americans prior to the election season. It was as if they didn't exist, nor did their particular problems. As the author of the Guardian article said:

votes aren’t owed to anyone, and if Sanders doesn’t win the black vote, it’s his own fault (and, possibly, that of the people he has chosen to advise him). You can’t blame the Clintons – they have handed Sanders one unforced error after another

Interesting read.

Your post got me to thinking, so I started googling, trying to find what exactly Hillary (or Bill) have done for the African American community. Looks like they've paid them a lot of lip service, but not a whole lot in actual legislative help. In fact, this (black) author thinks that the Clintons have done the black community more harm than good.

https://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/

 

[UncleBuck]

Now we can't use the word 'droves' in context of African Americans because you think it's somehow racist?

lol

"in droves" would not describe how black people voted with respect to bernie. they did not vote for him in droves. he was calling out your incorrect usage of a word, not your blatant racism of saying black people have a "herd like mentality".

 

[abandonconflict]

So it shouldn't be too hard for you to post examples of your accusation, then, right?

Decihering...

"I demand you wade through years of forum posts and spend the rest of your night proving a generalized statement that reflects a well known truth..."

So now you're a feminist who cares about BLM, idpol and has at the very least expressed solidarity with persecuted and oppressed demographics? So now you're saying you have never shown disdain for someone criticizing white privilege? IS that the conclusion you hope people will draw if I don't take the time to meet your stringent definition of proof for a generalized statement?

I stand by what I said, but I just want to know exactly how far your denial of it goes, I still might take the time to bring up some of your posts. I'm sure some of the other posters remember some as well buried in the years of your posting history. Like I said, you've been here a while, we know you.

 

[Fogdog]

bernie sanders does not give one shit about hispanic or latino people.

i mean, he literally voted to dump vermont's nuclear waste in the hispanic town of sierra blanca texas. he voted against comprehgensive immigration reform, and he voted against raising visa caps.

he said racism was over because obama won and also said black people only liked obama because of "racial pride".

oh, and he believes in fluoride conspiracy theories.

bernie is a racist loon. i'm glad he is 97 years old and therefore ineligible to run again due to his mental health.

Yeah, you said about what I posted in much fewer words.

I get that he thinks the lives of people of color will be improved by reining in Wall Street, curbing financial inequality and confronting climate change. But any democratic socialist should know that the economic violence of capitalism is specifically gendered and racialized, that Wall Street explicitly harms black and brown people and that the effects of climatechange are racist. Indeed, Sanders knows this and his platforms address it.

How, then, can Sanders still be failing to talk about racism, anti-blackness and anti-Latino sentiment at every turn,

The author of those lines (not mine) was a black bernie supporter yet he could hear and was disappointed by Mr B's silence regarding people of color.

So it shouldn't be too hard for you to post examples of your accusation, then, right?

What's the hold up?

Let's see the evidence

This all brings to mind @Padawanbater2 's rant after the election where he said "social justice warriors" should be "kicked to the curb". Very consistent with Bernie's strategy to capture white worker votes. Bernie knew of the racism in that group and didn't want to offend them by addressing racism in his talks. Unless cornered or directly asked, he didn't.

And so, Bernie didn't garner many votes from 40% of the Democratic Party electorate.

Oh and pad, this social justice warrior will not just let you kick him. Nor will any that I know. Words of warning.

 

[Fogdog]

Interesting read.

Your post got me to thinking, so I started googling, trying to find what exactly Hillary (or Bill) have done for the African American community. Looks like they've paid them a lot of lip service, but not a whole lot in actual legislative help. In fact, this (black) author thinks that the Clintons have done the black community more harm than good.

https://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/

Oh yeah, Clinton handed opportunities to Bernie. Bernie isn't stupid. I can only conclude that he chose not to go after black or brown voters. Which is why he lost the primary.

 

[Padawanbater2]

his accusation is that you refuse to rebut racists. so the lack of evidence proves him right.

you can post where yo have actually rebutted any of the racists we've seen on this forum over the years to disprove him, if any examples even exist. i doubt they do.

You don't like Obama because he's black

Your party is filled with racists and it's come to light ever since Obama was elected president. Highlighted by rampant police abuse and demands for birth certificates.

You want to sit there and act like racism in America doesn't exist.

Got news for ya bud..

Racism got worse after the civil war, and especially after reconstruction, too

Black people were given the right to vote and white people didn't like that. How do you think the KKK originated?

Today we have a fraction of the population who still harbor racist/sexist/homophobic/xenophobic ideologies, so when measures get passed that limit or restrict the majorities ability to discriminate - as have been during the Obama administration - the power structure fights back. We saw it in South Carolina with the conservative statehouse flag removal, in Illinois and Indiana with the refusal to acknowledge equal rights among homosexuals despite the Supreme Court decision, and in the many different riots involving innocent, unarmed (usually) black men being killed by white cops.

Racists/sexists/Islamophobes don't like that our government is cracking down on their bullshit, and some of them have actually taken up arms against it because they're so entrenched in their own nonsensical beliefs.

The country "struggles more" because silly racist fucks refuse to acknowledge that even the gay's and Arabs share the same rights they do. They want to live in a world where only straight, white men enjoy American rights.

If your 80-year-old grandpa who grew up during the civil rights era is telling you you're racist, you're probably much more racist than anyone here actually knows

 

[UncleBuck]

lol, 6 posts.

i make more than 6 posts a day laying out racist assholes.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Decihering...

"I demand you wade through years of forum posts and spend the rest of your night proving a generalized statement that reflects a well known truth..."

So now you're a feminist who cares about BLM, idpol and has at the very least expressed solidarity with persecuted and oppressed demographics? So now you're saying you have never shown disdain for someone criticizing white privilege? IS that the conclusion you hope people will draw if I don't take the time to meet your stringent definition of proof for a generalized statement?

I stand by what I said, but I just want to know exactly how far your denial of it goes, I still might take the time to bring up some of your posts. I'm sure some of the other posters remember some as well buried in the years of your posting history. Like I said, you've been here a while, we know you.

What is "stringent" about asking for proof?

You made the claim. It's your responsibility to provide the proof of said claim otherwise rational people will dismiss it.

Provide the evidence or dismiss the claim. Pretty simple.

 

[Padawanbater2]

if any examples even exist. i doubt they do.

lol, 6 posts.

Moving the goal posts

So obviously abandonconflicts accusation is wrong, right Unclubuck?

 

[UncleBuck]

Moving the goal posts

congrats on calling out the republican party as racist once every two years or so.

 

[abandonconflict]

You make it sound like a rhetorical question but your posting history indicates this is exactly how you feel.

I will prove this, thanks for not defining proof. Also, your pleas regarding freeze peach and that one time you called one obvious troll racist doesn't really make up for your comments about black people having a herd-like mentality.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Moving the goal posts

congrats on calling out the republican party as racist once every two years or so.

Is abandonconflict wrong that I "refuse to rebut racists?" or not?

 

[Fogdog]

Racism got worse after the civil war, and especially after reconstruction, too

Race-based chattel slavery wasn't as extreme as Jim Crow? You mean the kind of society where a black person could never be free and their children by birthright were owned by the mother's master. The condition of black people got worse after slavery?

Dude, you just exhibited the proof you were asking for.

 

[UncleBuck]

Is abandonconflict wrong that I "refuse to rebut racists?" or not?

he's totally wrong. every couple of years or so, you make an impotent attempt.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Race-based chattel slavery wasn't as extreme as Jim Crow? You mean the kind of society where a black person could never be free and their children by birthright were owned by the mother's master. You are basically saying that the condition of black people got worse after slavery.

Dude, you just exhibited the proof you were asking for.

I didn't say slavery got worse. I said racism got worse.

But you will gravitate towards anything you think will make my argument look bad.

Because your ego is in control of your life