bernie and jane are lawyering up!

Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
I'm antifa. A radical leftist. You're not, you are a fake progressive in a fascist country. A coward.
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Why would straight, white males care about inequality if they sit pretty in privilege? According to you, we got what we want, right? So why would we care about inequality?

The narrative you've created inside your head can't answer that simple question, and your ego won't let you without resorting to personal attacks
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
Speaking of, have you seen any exit polling or other data to explain this? Was it specific policy positions of Hillary that they liked? Specific policy positions of Bernies that they didn't like? Name recognition alone?

This has kinda baffles me. Medicare for all, tuition free university, raising the minimum wage to $15, putting an end to the drug war/mass incarceration. All things that disproportionately affect minorities.
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Less than half of all states had exit polling, so any analysis would be skewed to them.

Exit polling data mostly just look at race, gender, age and who the voter chose. One NBC poll showed that Bernie did better with young black voters and the analysis I read said that this was a problem for Bernie because young black voters aren't voting at any where near their proportion of the population. Even so, about 67% supported Clinton. Older black voters show up and they supported Clinton at higher proportions. But that's the only shred of analysis I could find that took a stab at ferreting out reasons using statistics, as flawed as those stats are. And, that bit about Sanders polling better with young black votes stretches the truth. In fact, a Sanders didn't do well with that group either.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/huge-split-between-older-younger-blacks-democratic-primary-n580996


Bottom line numbers:
In 21 states, the adjusted exit polls report the presidential preferences of the black portion of the Democratic electorate. In 10 of these 21 states, all in the South, Hillary Clinton reportedly received 80% to 91% of the black vote, and 67% to 75% elsewhere.

Between February 27 and March 8, primaries were held in nine southern states (Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia). In these nine primaries, Clinton won 499 pledged delegates to 212 for Sanders, a lead that has proven insurmountable.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/28/upshot/exit-polls-and-why-the-primary-was-not-stolen-from-bernie-sanders.html

Here's reference to what Sanders supporters' said about that and what the analyst thinks:

Clinton won every contest with at least a 10 percent black population, except Michigan, and each state where Latinos make up at least 10 percent of eligible voters, except Colorado, according to Harry Enten of FiveThirtyEight.com. On top of that, they have been mocked by some Sanders supporters for supposedly “voting against their self-interest” because they refuse to believe a political revolution is at hand.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-democrats-race-racial-divide-213948

Also from the same article:
“That refusal to accept the necessity of compromise in a winner-take-all two-party system (and an electorate in which conservatives still outnumber liberals) is characteristic of a certain idealistic style of left-wing politics. Its conception of voting as an act of performative virtue has largely confined itself to white left-wing politics, because it is at odds with the political tradition of a community that has always viewed political compromise as a practical necessity. The expectation that a politician should agree with you on everything is the ultimate expression of privilege.”

We don't have good analytical data and so have only commentator's views to help explain. Here is one from an African American who is or was a Sanders supporter:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/03/bernie-sanders-failure-diversity-hispanic-black-voters

An extract:
On Sunday, I went to Bernie Sanders’s press conference in Washington DC. As a black voter who has “felt the Bern”,

I left the press event extremely disappointed. Sanders lectured us about super-delegates. He obsessed over the possibility of Hillary Clinton failing to win enough pledged delegates. He spoke of a contested convention, and he recycled his well-worn talking points about inequality.

Two things he failed to mention: black and Hispanic voters, two constituencies whose support he has failed, repeatedly, to gain.

I get that he thinks the lives of people of color will be improved by reining in Wall Street, curbing financial inequality and confronting climate change. But any democratic socialist should know that the economic violence of capitalism is specifically gendered and racialized, that Wall Street explicitly harms black and brown people and that the effects of climatechange are racist. Indeed, Sanders knows this and his platforms address it.

How, then, can Sanders still be failing to talk about racism, anti-blackness and anti-Latino sentiment at every turn, especially heading into the primary in California, a state with more Latinos than whites? If you listen to what Sanders is actually saying in this late stage of the game, he seems much more interested in open primaries, independent voters and super-delegates than he is in voters of color or the disenfranchised. That’s unsettling.

The key criticism I've heard about Bernie from African Americans is they don't hear him talk about their issues. The same complaint was voiced by Vermont African Americans prior to the election season. It was as if they didn't exist, nor did their particular problems. As the author of the Guardian article said:

votes aren’t owed to anyone, and if Sanders doesn’t win the black vote, it’s his own fault (and, possibly, that of the people he has chosen to advise him). You can’t blame the Clintons – they have handed Sanders one unforced error after another
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
His supporters don't want to hear about that. Poor oppressed white guys...
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I've seen (or maybe I'm seeing what I want to see) a gradual shift in st0w's rhetoric. At least he's asking questions and giving answers.

tty and pad are hopeless though. They keep referencing propaganda in the form of lies and false news to justify their claims. Entrenched in their ignorance.
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
In other words, you have no evidence to support your theory
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You mean my theory that you have never once rebuked any of the blatant and obvious racist trolls that have been posting all over the forum for years? You mean how you showed your disdain everytime I criticized privileged white guys and even made irate posts in my thread about it? You mean your MRA bullshit?

Just quit dude, you have been here a long time, we know you.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
how can you disagree with my factual statement? bernie lost, and badly. 4 million votes, 55%-43%. no one wanted him.
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Now Buck. "no one wanted him".

upload_2017-7-19_15-53-32.jpeg

Young white male voters want him so badly they are willing to re-write history. And claim 43% >> 55%, the election was stolen by 4 million votes. And black people refuse to vote in their own interest. And the country is thirsting for white liberalism. And adopt fake news propaganda techniques invented by Nazis. Because what's good for them is good for the country.

or some such nonsense
 
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