Uncle Ben's Topping Technique to Get 2 or 4 Main Colas

DALE199595 said:

What height did you switch them over? And did you cut of any of the bottom

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Who?

Please use quote feature, especially if you're the first poster on a new page.

plants showed apical dominance and top node left the lower trailing behind so lower node was removed (u can see where it was in the pics)

both plants over 40 inches in height and have had some defoliation up top and a little lollipop down below.

medium used 100% fytocell one in normal hempy bucket and the other in a superoots airpot with a bucket bottom cable tied on for a airpot hempy

nutes- lucas formula with occasional dash of grow, roots excelerator, silicon

45 days after topping and day 17 flower
plant A Moby dick










45 days after topping and day 17 flower
Plant B Moby dick














both at home together

I've used Uncle Buds technique starting from seed, and it works great. The question I have is about clones. My clones have a lot more growth on bottom than do starting from seed. Could I just trim all branches off but 4 then top, and get the four colas? Thanks

rollyouron said:

I've used Uncle Buds technique

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Is that Bens alter ego LOL

rollyouron said:

I've used Uncle Buds technique starting from seed, and it works great. The question I have is about clones. My clones have a lot more growth on bottom than do starting from seed. Could I just trim all branches off but 4 then top, and get the four colas? Thanks

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I believe you can 4 top them only if your nodes are not alternating. If they are alternating nodes then you can't use the 4 topping technique.

randybishop said:

I just topped at the 2nd node, hope it works!

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only if your seedling is healthy & stress free..

Uncle Ben said:

Here's the FAQ, again, from another website:

FAQ

Q - Can I cut above the 3rd or 4th node?

A - You can, but you won't get the same effect regarding bulked up main colas. I came up with this simple technique in order to increase main cola production from 1..... to 2 or 4. If you want a lot of bud sites and a bushier plant, then top at say.....the 8th node, but, that's not my technique as described.

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This is my first post in this forum and I hope it fits with this thread because a lot of other topics are mentioned too...if not I’ll gladly open a new thread.

I’m seeking advice, especially from Uncle Ben, regarding topping for outdoor plants in order to turn them into a bush full of budding sites. I’ve read most of UB's topping posts and a few other and I’m really impressed with your thinking UB (by reading the correct advice from the start it seems I’m lucky I’ll not get dragged into Marijuana Forum paradigms, hopefully!!). Thanks for all your valuable contributions to the forum! Unfortunately I couldn’t quite find what I was looking for…a topping plan & guideline for the whole growing cycle. I figured this post would also help other fellow growers and hopefully respond to many more side questions. So I thank all of you and UB in advance.

So here is my plan for this year’s outdoor guerilla grow, which is also my first! (Indoor I completed 3 grows spread over a 5-6 year period but the last dates back to 2002!)

I live in Rome, Italy, about 6-7 miles from the sea where I can grow from March to October. I think the weather here is similar to certain parts of California. The summer is pretty hot (highs: 90-95°F, lows: 64-70°F), with very little rainfall during June, July and August (less than 2” rain on average for all 3 months) but quite high relative humidity (min 40% – max70%) for the period. In Fall/Winter it’s even more humid.

I plan to grow seedlings outdoors directly in pots for about 1-1,5 months before transplanting to the final guerilla location. As with every guerilla location security is of the utmost importance, therefore I’ll need to hand water the plants mostly at night. When specific work is needed (transplanting, bug spraying, etc.) I’ll need to go there during the day.

The guerilla patch receives plenty of sun each day, it is exposed to the south-east. By the way check out this really helpful online tool which combines Google maps with sunrise/sunset timetables and direction towards the horizon, sun height over the horizon, etc., to verify a location’s sun exposure. It’s really great, try it: http://www.suncalc.net/.

I will install a 55 gallon green reservoir, 12V timer, 12V submersible pump and a 12V 7,2Ah battery for automatic watering (I have a back-up battery when the other is charging, in order to minimize trips to the patch and to ensure the pump be always in service if needed). I estimate I’ll need to carry 55 gallons of water every other week during the dry months (consider the plants will be quite large by then). Any feedback on this estimate is more than welcome (approx. 4,5 gallons/week per plant). I sized my 12V battery and reservoir hold-up on the fact that I should be leaving for 2 weeks for holidays. I know leaving the plants unattended for 2 weeks (except for watering of course) is not the best thing to do but they should not suffer. A good watering with nutrients and heavy dose of bug sprays (neem oil, etc.) should do….I hope!

Right now I’m monitoring the area with a gaming/trail camera which can detect animals/humans via the infrared heat emitted. It will automatically take night/day pictures and video. Some cameras can SMS/MMS or email the pictures/vids to you. In a way this feature increases security as one doesn’t need to go to the patch to download/view the material, discovering in real time any rippers, law enforcement or animal which is destroying your crop. On the other hand you need a SIM card inside the camera to be able to SMS/email. In Italy SIM cards need to be registered so, unless you can provide fake ID, if police find the device and plants you’re in big trouble! Another downside to this feature is that you may receive hundreds of SMS/MMS/emails in a short time period depending on where you install it and on the selected parameters like sensitivity and waiting time between detections. It is a good idea to have a flat SMS/MMS service on your cell phone rather than pay for all those SMS/MMS individually. After the plants have been transplanted the camera will monitor the patch 24/7 only.

These are my strains:

• 3 x Dinafem Critical+ (feminized)
• 2 x Sensi Seeds Super Skunk (feminized)
• 9 other feminized strains I received from The Attitude Seed Bank for free during this December’s promotion [Sharksbreath (DNA Genetics), Skunk 47 (World of Seeds Legend Collection), Dinachem (Dinafem), Green Crack (Cali Connection), Purple Trainwreck (Humboldt Seed Organization), Girl Scout Cookies (BCBD), Sage n Sour (TH Seeds), Kosher Tangie (DNA Genetics), Silver Kush Reserva Privada)]

I will germinate the seeds directly outdoors around April 15[SUP]th[/SUP] and transplant from mid-May to June 1[SUP]st [/SUP]depending on the outcome of the topping, plant size, etc.. My goal is to have 6 bushes maximum 7 feet high (for security reasons) once ready for harvest. My 6 candidate strains will be the 3 Critical+ and the 2 Super Skunk, chosen for their fast finishing times and other good traits of course! My sixth and last plant will surely be another indica dominant cross. However, for a successful plan
I will plant 10 seeds total and decide which sixth strain will be worthy of being transplanted into the soil depending on the topping outcome, size, any issues with hermies due to feminized seeds, etc. Recommendations on which 6[SUP]th[/SUP] strain I should transplant are more than welcome as what should be the other 4 “back-up strains”, which I’ll probably finish in bigger pots together with the 6 (not throwing away anything of course!).

I will dig 6 cylindrical holes about 60cm in diameter (approx. 2’ feet) which converge into a cone towards the bottom [approx. 45–50 cm deep (approx. 18-20” inches)], fill them with a good mix (approx. 21 gallons per hole) and install 2” x 3” mesh cages about 32” in diameter to sustain growth and prevent animal attacks. The holes will be lined up with chicken wire fencing 1’ foot deep and the fencing will stick out another foot from the ground for extra protection from small animals.

The mix for the 6 plants will be made up of (here too any advice is welcome):

• 400 Liters (approx. 107 gallons) of Biobizz Light Mix (Peat based substrate with perlite, slightly fertilized)
• 40 Liters (approx. 11 gallons) of Biobizz worm castings
• Approx. 3 kg (6,6 pounds) of Bat Guano Kalong
• 50 Liters (approx. 13 gallons)
• Maybe other good stuff (fish meal, bone meal, blood meal, mycorrhizae, tricoderma)

I plan to use use liquid organic fertilizers (grow and bloom) to supplement during the cycle as needed, following UB’s advice “Keep those leaves green” and others…
Given the planting time (mid April), the hole sizes, strains, sun exposure and good plant care I think I shouldn’t have problems growing plants up to 6-7 feet high. Maybe quite the opposite is true, I might have trouble containing them! What do you outdoor growers think?

Bug & mold prevention will be handled by alternating sprayings of (again advice and tips welcome) some or all of:

• Neem oil
• Homemade solution of tobacco, garlic and chili peppers
• Pirethrum
• B.T. (Bacillus Thurgensis) during the right period for caterpillars

Now comes my primary concern/goal: how, when, where and with what frequency to prune/top the plants to stimulate lateral growth and therefore grow the plants into a bush? I know it depends on the strain, the growing conditions, the weather/exposure, etc., but I’m seeking general advice and guidelines. I know I’ll have to carefully observe each plant/strain and decide on the course of action for each individual plant/strain but it would really help me (and others I’m sure) to follow a guideline similar to the following made up example (do not use as a reference, but has some logic to it):

1. At the end of month 1 (approx. mid May) top the plant at the last node or maybe two/three nodes down (but I doubt it as there’ll be fewer lateral branches). After 1 month the plant will probably have 4-6 nodes total. Top only if there are at least 3 nodes
2. After month 2 (approx. mid June) top the 2 main stems obtained from the previous step 1 and top only main shoots at the tip of long branches, as needed (or top only the main shoots at the tip of the first branches shooting from under step 1 topping, or top only the lowest branches from the ground. This sounds stupid though…). Don’t top/pinch too many main shoots from branches or it will stress the plants too much. Consider topping the main stem at different times respect to topping/pinching the main shoots on branches
3. After month 3 (approx. mid July) top the 4 main stems obtained from step 2 and top only main shoots at the tip of long branches, as needed (or some other technique…). Don’t top/pinch too many main shoots from branches or it will stress the plants too much. Consider topping the main stem at different times respect to topping/pinching the main shoots on branches
4. Stop topping after step 3 as flowering is approaching by the time the plants will have responded to the topping (with new growth/bud sites). It’s never good to top when the plant is about to pre-flower/flower. The result will be 8 main topped stems and numerous topped/pinched side branches.

Without any advice (ok I’ve watched many Youtube vids on topping/supercropping/LST and read many RIU posts/articles) that’s exactly how I would do it. IOW, top 2 or 3 times the main stems and top main shoots from longer branches as needed. Maybe only 2 steps of main stem topping (yielding just 4 main tops from the main stem) are enough on some plants or on a particular strain, so observing the plant will help to decide.

I’m sure supercropping fits in the picture too, particularly as an alternative/option to topping main shoots on branches (at least that’s my take on the technique). Besides reinforcing the branches (which is good because they will support more bud weight), I don’t get how supercropping helps with bushing as it should not produce more branching, just widen/open the plant if you get what I mean. Any explanations/thoughts?

I admit that while writing this post I realize I do have a reasonable idea (but maybe not winning) on how to get bushes but, you know, receiving UB’s and the Forum’s blessing provides added awareness and certainty to what I’m about to do.

Thank You!
Outdoor Fan

The last plant I had in the garden last year was a supercropping/UB top technique as an experiment. It will be my model this year as it did not grow tall and was strong enough to withstand quite a bit of weight without support. I think I will try some chicken wire over the top or something to contain/protect it.

Outdoor Fan said:

This is my first post in this forum and I hope it fits with this thread because a lot of other topics are mentioned too...if not I’ll gladly open a new thread.

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Welcome to the thread. Got to say, you have a lot planned, lot's of "ifs". I hope your site is almost 100% secure where you can tend to it freely and without too much trouble. If not, I wouldn't bother. Indoor is a lot more convenient and trouble free. You'll see some of my threads where I grow outdoors but it's easy for me except for the very high wind conditions and storms. Now, compare MY conditions with the challenges you'll face, and see if you really want to do this:

My setup - get the seedling up to 3 or so nodes, top, bury as deep as I can in a 12 liter or so pot. Work into the top of the soil about 1 Tblsp. of a slow release 18-4-9 food. At the site I dig a 3" deep hole big with enough diameter to drop the pot into it so that the roots will eventually grow out of the 6 drain holes into the native soil thereby "re-purposing" water and minerals that wash out of the pot. I cover up the bottom of the pot with the soil removed using my foot. I run a 2 gph emitter off an irrigation line into the pot. Done! Very little cost or maintenance for the life of the plant. I'll post some pix.

Note: you'll see in the first photo where I played games with mama natur again. Instead of topping above the 2nd node, I stripped off all leaf petioles below the top 2 nodes to get the same effect. 1/2 dozen of one, 6 of the other. Why? I wanted more root mass while getting to where I wanted to go. This plant was hit by strong winds splitting the crotch to just below soil level and with a little asphalt spray and duct tape, did just fine. (photo #5)

You can top any time. All you need to understand is how the plant is going to react and then top. Topping to my 4 cola method will work fine.

Good luck!

The2TimEr said:

You just opened the thread and were hit with this? really strange, never known that to happen before.
I'm not enjoying these ads all over the pages now though.
here are the ladies last night 1 week 5 days since the first hairs, i could have vegged a little longer now it seems but they look happy enough.

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smidge on my phone camera left side

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How many plants is that and did you top all of them? I will be doing a DWC bucket grow pretty soon in a 3x3 tent with 3 plants and was also wondering if I topped all 3 plants using UB technique, will I have enough room for 12 colas in a 3x3 tent?

Hey Uncle Ben, great thread you've made here, excellent information.

I have a question for you, I'm confused at which point my 2nd "true" node is at... would you please point me in the right direction?




Never mind, after reading through some of the 5000+ posts in this thread have come to the conclusion that the lower red arrow is where I want to make my cut. (Skip the cotyledons node, skip the next node, then cut above the next node.)

Also, I was thinking UB......after it growing to about 6 nodes the stem would be quite strong. I know its better to pinch it off with your fingers, but is it possible or is it too strong? Would cutting it with the scissors be ok?

Topped my crew 2 days ago, coming along nicely, little early for some but they will make it.
I accidentally decapitated 1 of the future colas on one of my girls 3 Cola plant I presume? lol

Thanks Uncle Ben for all the info you've shared over the years.

@Chargermane I use small trimming scissors

Uncle Ben said:

Welcome to the thread. Got to say, you have a lot planned, lot's of "ifs". I hope your site is almost 100% secure where you can tend to it freely and without too much trouble. If not, I wouldn't bother. Indoor is a lot more convenient and trouble free. You'll see some of my threads where I grow outdoors but it's easy for me except for the very high wind conditions and storms. Now, compare MY conditions with the challenges you'll face, and see if you really want to do this:

My setup - get the seedling up to 3 or so nodes, top, bury as deep as I can in a 12 liter or so pot. Work into the top of the soil about 1 Tblsp. of a slow release 18-4-9 food. At the site I dig a 3" deep hole big with enough diameter to drop the pot into it so that the roots will eventually grow out of the 6 drain holes into the native soil thereby "re-purposing" water and minerals that wash out of the pot. I cover up the bottom of the pot with the soil removed using my foot. I run a 2 gph emitter off an irrigation line into the pot. Done! Very little cost or maintenance for the life of the plant. I'll post some pix.

Note: you'll see in the first photo where I played games with mama natur again. Instead of topping above the 2nd node, I stripped off all leaf petioles below the top 2 nodes to get the same effect. 1/2 dozen of one, 6 of the other. Why? I wanted more root mass while getting to where I wanted to go. This plant was hit by strong winds splitting the crotch to just below soil level and with a little asphalt spray and duct tape, did just fine. (photo #5)

You can top any time. All you need to understand is how the plant is going to react and then top. Topping to my 4 cola method will work fine.

Good luck!

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Uncle Ben, thanks for your reply, I appreciate it!You really are the beacon of this forum!
In general I think my plan stands a good chance to be successful...that's why Iinvested in the trail camera to be extra sure of what I'm doing. Neverthelessas you say no site is 100% secure!

What I like about your setup is you're saving quite a lot of money and troubleby using only 12 liter pots. Most of all I like your considerations aboutwater+nutes leaching from drainage holes into the native soil. Sounds very wisebut isn't this "symbiosis" (you will allow me to use this improperterm yeah!?) mainly recommended for sites which have a good native soil (likenot too much clay, etc)? I have not tested the native soil but I've seen thereis some clay in it, however I haven't dug the holes so I've not done the"drainage test" yet (timing how fast a hole full of water takes). Ialso know of some sort of visual test with sample soil put in a transparentbottle with water, mix a little and observe the behavior of sediments of thebottle (at the bottom and on the sides). If my experiment goes smooth, nextyear I will amend (manure, etc) the native soil in November so that for thenext grow it'll be just perfect maybe making your method even more worthwhile.Or maybe your method is good regardless of native soils because by the time theroots reach the native soil they will be strong, big and healthy and they willeasily be able to supply nutrients to the plant and they will easily dig theirway through the native soil. Is this a valid argument?

When transplanting I'll go with burying the plant as deep as possible whetherit be in the pot or directly into the soil. Extra root development will bestimulated and I can only buy into that. Great tip!

Regarding topping to shape the plants into a bush, I understand I'll need tofind my own way, get a feeling for it. I'll experiment, maybe some will gettopped to your 4 cola method, others differently so I'll evaluate the outcome.

One last thing: could you be so kind to provide links to your outdoor grows youmention (indoor also welcome), preferably with pics to document them? I haveseen your journal related to your great article on Spin-out chemical rootpruning but I don't think anything else.

By the way very impressive root mass you got there!
Ciao
Outdoor Fan

Just do it.

Uncle Ben said:

Just do it.

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UB, do you think there would be enough room for 3 plants in a 3x3 tent using your topping method?

Chargermane said:

UB, do you think there would be enough room for 3 plants in a 3x3 tent using your topping method?

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Don't have a clue, just do it and see. Plants are dynamic, tents are restrictive. I would never use a tent but that's just me.

Chargermane said:

UB, do you think there would be enough room for 3 plants in a 3x3 tent using your topping method?

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[video=youtube;cB5K8HgbBmI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB5K8HgbBmI[/video]

my first and only run in my 3x3 tent, I use it to veg my plants now... I think I got around 9 or 10 oz from that run the video was made halfway through budding...all the plants were 12/12 from seeds, 9 plants. If you are to veg them you could easily veg 4 plants and flip in that space using the topping method. I say 4 because its much easier to fill a square with a square number of plants, its hard to get the same coverage with 3 plants.

Uncle Ben said:

Welcome to the thread. Got to say, you have a lot planned, lot's of "ifs". I hope your site is almost 100% secure where you can tend to it freely and without too much trouble. If not, I wouldn't bother. Indoor is a lot more convenient and trouble free. You'll see some of my threads where I grow outdoors but it's easy for me except for the very high wind conditions and storms. Now, compare MY conditions with the challenges you'll face, and see if you really want to do this:

My setup - get the seedling up to 3 or so nodes, top, bury as deep as I can in a 12 liter or so pot. Work into the top of the soil about 1 Tblsp. of a slow release 18-4-9 food. At the site I dig a 3" deep hole big with enough diameter to drop the pot into it so that the roots will eventually grow out of the 6 drain holes into the native soil thereby "re-purposing" water and minerals that wash out of the pot. I cover up the bottom of the pot with the soil removed using my foot. I run a 2 gph emitter off an irrigation line into the pot. Done! Very little cost or maintenance for the life of the plant. I'll post some pix.

Note: you'll see in the first photo where I played games with mama natur again. Instead of topping above the 2nd node, I stripped off all leaf petioles below the top 2 nodes to get the same effect. 1/2 dozen of one, 6 of the other. Why? I wanted more root mass while getting to where I wanted to go. This plant was hit by strong winds splitting the crotch to just below soil level and with a little asphalt spray and duct tape, did just fine. (photo #5)

You can top any time. All you need to understand is how the plant is going to react and then top. Topping to my 4 cola method will work fine.

Good luck!

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ub your seedling soil mix is atleast 6" and another 6" from top soil to the first true node am i right? so lets say 12" buried huh

papajohn said:

ub your seedling soil mix is atleast 6" and another 6" from top soil to the first true node am i right? so lets say 12" buried huh

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Probably 5-6" of the trunk buried on that one. Doesn't really matter.