Uncle Ben's Gardening Tweeks and Pointers

DaveCoulier

DaveCoulier

Well-Known Member
jjfoo said:
I mean salt deposits. It is everyone in my salt based hydro set up and I've seen it on pots where salts are used.

I know people who grow in boxes with no drainage at all, they tell me that there is never salt buildup because they don't use anything but RO water and compost.

Will they get salt buildup? If so, it appears to be very slow and the plants are growing fine so it doesn't seem like they are being underfed.

just to be clear, I'm not promoting organic or saying anything bad about salts, just looking to know a bit more...

I found a big bag of salts at my dad's and told him this is like poison, it will ruin the ground. This was about 2 months ago. Now I am glad I didn't do something stupid and throw it out. I actually now plan to use it in moderation, so I am changing my views, just want to learn what is really going on.
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The guys growing without drainage holes are only doing themselves a disservice. That's plainly idiotic.

Regarding salt buildup. It doesn't happen overnight. They'll likely experience no problems with it, and not because they are using compost. I use mostly synthetic ferts plus tap water, and plants dont have any buildup on the soil, nor have they reacted in anyway that would make me think I have salt buildup in the soil. And this is with most of them never being flushed in the 2-4 months they've been in the pots.

jjfoo said:
In the link you posted it says this:

Manures and composts contain inorganic salts, organic salts, and insoluble organic forms of nutrients. But their salt content per unit of nutrient may not differ much from fertilizer, since their nutrient content is a lot lower, and they contain salts not necessarily needed for the crop. Also, as they decompose, the nutrients turn into salts.


This is part of my answer... It says that composts and organic materials eventually become salts. Like you first had said.

my question is do organics leave less residue or spent salts behind?

Just checking my understanding, can you confirm this statement?

When a salt is in the right environment (correct pH) it gives off an ion to the root, right? the ion is replaced with Hydrogen then then new (not fert) salt is useless to the plant and needs to be flushed.
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By the slow nature of organic ferts breaking down, it will leave less salts behind.

This will help you some:

http://www.staugorchidsociety.org/PDF/IPAFertilizers.pdf

jjfoo said:
I use smart pots if that matters (quicker drying)


If I plan to flower in five gallon pots, what should I veg in and do I need more than one transplant?


I have some 1 gallon and 2 gallon pots. It seems that going from 2 to 5 would be better than 1 to 5. Is there a good ratio to use for this?

Would it be best to go 1,2, 5? or even buy a different size to be in the middle for 3 transplants?
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Going from 1-2 is a waste of time. If you were using organic ferts, I think going from 1-5 would be best, as you now have 4 gallons of fresh soil to feed the plant as opposed to 3.
 
madcatter

madcatter

Active Member
As for the question about pots, I go straight from party cups to 5 gallons,,,, nature doesn;t up size its pots so I figure give the room and don;t transplant more than necessary.... seems to work for me....
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
kineticz06 said:
Hey there Uncle Ben,

I was told you may be able to help me. I am in my 3rd lowryder 2 grow (auto flowering strain) and im running into an issue with one of my plants. About a week ago it started rapidly yellowing on the larger lower fan leaves, and is now spreading through out all the the leaves (especially on the tips).
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What did you change, or what have not been giving them that they require?

What plant foods and NPK values?

Manures and composts contain inorganic salts, organic salts, and insoluble organic forms of nutrients. But their salt content per unit of nutrient may not differ much from fertilizer, since their nutrient content is a lot lower, and they contain salts not necessarily needed for the crop. Also, as they decompose, the nutrients turn into salts.
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That's a good way to describe organics. For some strange reason, probably ignorance or the need to believe, organic purists think their way is some how better, more environmentally friendly than a guy with a box of fertilizer.

UB
 
J

jjfoo

Active Member
madcatter said:
As for the question about pots, I go straight from party cups to 5 gallons,,,, nature doesn;t up size its pots so I figure give the room and don;t transplant more than necessary.... seems to work for me....
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I grow indoors. So I'd have to run a lot of lights to cover all the extra soil. I can fit way more plants under my 400 mh in veg.
 
madcatter

madcatter

Active Member
I was commenting on the fact that I grow in 5 gals direct from party cups.... I am limited to 15 plants by my license... so I choose not to go thru the replanting stresses,,,,
 
notoriousb

notoriousb

Well-Known Member
I know youre a big proponent of Schultz plant foods, but I was having a discussion with a buddy who also grows organically and we came to the topic of chelated minerals in organic soils. he thinks that the chelated minerals kill the microbeasties we all want in our organic soil. what do you think UB cuz I have some Schultz 20-20-20 that I really want to use but still want to keep it organic and steer clear of chem ferts. I grow in half FF Ocean Forest and half FF Light Warrior for the humic acid.

thanks in advanced
 
DaveCoulier

DaveCoulier

Well-Known Member
notoriousb said:
I know youre a big proponent of Schultz plant foods, but I was having a discussion with a buddy who also grows organically and we came to the topic of chelated minerals in organic soils. he thinks that the chelated minerals kill the microbeasties we all want in our organic soil. what do you think UB cuz I have some Schultz 20-20-20 that I really want to use but still want to keep it organic and steer clear of chem ferts. I grow in half FF Ocean Forest and half FF Light Warrior for the humic acid.

thanks in advanced
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Notorius, read the last couple pages. Theres plenty of discussion regarding organic and non-organic.
 
notoriousb

notoriousb

Well-Known Member
DaveCoulier said:
Notorius, read the last couple pages. Theres plenty of discussion regarding organic and non-organic.
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just read, thanks. thats what I was looking for. I told my friend that just because it wasn't "organic" as carbon matter doesnt mean that chelated minerals arent still natural. thanks again bongsmilie

another question then. if I use the Schultz 20-20-20, how would I use that in conjunction with Bio Bizz Bloom all organic liquid bloom fert? water them in separately or is it ok to mix them together in a res?
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
notoriousb said:
just read, thanks. thats what I was looking for. I told my friend that just because it wasn't "organic" as carbon matter doesnt mean that chelated minerals arent still natural. thanks again bongsmilie

another question then. if I use the Schultz 20-20-20, how would I use that in conjunction with Bio Bizz Bloom all organic liquid bloom fert? water them in separately or is it ok to mix them together in a res?
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Do the jar test. Combine the two with some water, shake, and see if anything precipitates out. If not, you're good to go.
 
J

jjfoo

Active Member
madcatter said:
I was commenting on the fact that I grow in 5 gals direct from party cups.... I am limited to 15 plants by my license... so I choose not to go thru the replanting stresses,,,,
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so when they go from the cups to the pots you are running, how may watts are you using?

and how many did you veg in cups with?
 
J

jjfoo

Active Member
notoriousb said:
he thinks that the chelated minerals kill the microbeasties we all want in our organic soil. what do you think UB cuz I have some Schultz 20-20-20 that I really want to use but still want to keep it organic and steer clear of chem ferts. I grow in half FF Ocean Forest and half FF Light Warrior for the humic acid.

thanks in advanced
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wow, I see me in your post, I used to feel a lot like this

There are inorganic chemicals in your grow already. Mainly, water.

I know how you feel. The same chemicals you have fear of hurting your micro heard are things that will be there anyway I think. I am trying to better understand this, too.


UB,

is it accurate to say that the same chemicals will be present no more, no less?

I mean will spent salts be something that will be there with compost from say fruit and grass, eventually? Or are there different byproducts from the salts breakdown than from compost breakdown?

I hope I am being clear, I feel like I'm having difficulty explaining my question...:wall:
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
jjfoo said:
UB,

is it accurate to say that the same chemicals will be present no more, no less?

I mean will spent salts be something that will be there with compost from say fruit and grass, eventually? Or are there different byproducts from the salts breakdown than from compost breakdown?

I hope I am being clear, I feel like I'm having difficulty explaining my question...:wall:
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Yep, try again, or, try not to dissect this thing too much.
 
notoriousb

notoriousb

Well-Known Member
how about chelated mineral ferts sprayed as a foliar, does that work? or do you just feed the roots with them?
 
J

jjfoo

Active Member
Uncle Ben said:
Yep, try again, or, try not to dissect this thing too much.
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setup:

say you had two pots that had the exact medium

then in one you added some compost that you knew the ingredients.

After this broke down and fed the plant you sample the soil and call it A

then you prove the same nutrients that the compost did using salts let it feed the plant, sample it and call it B


questions:

1. will samples A and B have the same byproducts? Or more specifically do salt nutes in general leave more to flush than organic nutes.

2. Also, when salts give up their ions to the plant what is left? I've been under the impression that what is left is spent salt or a salt that no longer contains what you need and you don't want it in your soil.
 
S

sherriberry

New Member
so if i am running advanced nutes basic 3 part, and just running their micro and their bloom.

micro is 5-0-1
bloom is 0-5-4

and i use equal parts during veg, and i keep the ratio the same for bloom, but start using advanced nutes Big Bud, which is like a 0-1-3 or something i think?

and im in hydro, with sprayers, and a large chamber, and a bit of dwc at the bottom...

what other supliments should i use? WHere should i keep the ph? i keep it around 5.5-5.9 right now

id consider trying dirt, but hydro is so much easier as far as clean, wieght of dirt, and, able to correct chamicals quickly by re-filling the res with a new mixture at any moment.

thanks in advance
 
DaveCoulier

DaveCoulier

Well-Known Member
jjfoo said:
I'm sure you've reads the other docs here:

http://www.staugorchidsociety.org/culturewater.htm


Just wanted to post this for the benefit of others.

I never new about Alkalinity (a measure of how much acid it
takes to lower the pH below a certain level, also called
acid-buffering capacity)

thanks for the link
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Before UB actually put up a link to the homepage of that 5 part series, I had no idea there was more than the one I had previously linked in here. I should probably learn to read those big numbers at the beginning of the articles next time. :oops:

sherriberry said:
so if i am running advanced nutes basic 3 part, and just running their micro and their bloom.

micro is 5-0-1
bloom is 0-5-4

and i use equal parts during veg, and i keep the ratio the same for bloom, but start using advanced nutes Big Bud, which is like a 0-1-3 or something i think?

and im in hydro, with sprayers, and a large chamber, and a bit of dwc at the bottom...

what other supliments should i use? WHere should i keep the ph? i keep it around 5.5-5.9 right now

id consider trying dirt, but hydro is so much easier as far as clean, wieght of dirt, and, able to correct chamicals quickly by re-filling the res with a new mixture at any moment.

thanks in advance
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Why are you wanting to use additives? They're crap. Big Bud is just amino acids, yet plants create their own. AN wants you to think your plants can't properly flower without them, yet common sense tells you its complete bullshit.

Plants in nature just need water, sunlight, and the correct nutrients to flourish. They dont need amino acid additives, or bloom boosters, or whatever other crap AN and other nutrient companies are trying to make you think are vital.
 
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