The Universe!!!

Proof enough? Hardly at all, you could be talking about your brother. I could tell you anything I like, does it make it true?

So, you say my knowing that there is no god is ignorance because i do not believe what you believe. You believe in tinkerbell for example, or at least creatures like tinkerbell could exist. I've underlined it for you this time. This, to me, is ignorance. fairies were made up, and guess what frth', so was belief in gods. I know there are no gods the same way I know there are no fairies.

My logic seems sound enough, so sound in fact that you call me ignorant rather than argue against it. Rather post that I only believe in things that I can see. A deliberate misinterpretation of my words. Which wouldn't be so bad if not for the fact you knew you were doing it, and in fact had done it before and apologised to me for it.

Your logic is that we cannot know anything for a fact. This is not logical at all. There is much we (well most of us) know. Like the fairy thing frth', trust me mate... they don't exist.

frthnkr85 said:

... but fire with fire right...

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right on. hail satan!

7xstall said:

EBM, about the more than one Earth theory, you'll like this:

when i was a kid i had a theory that this is the 4th Earth. the biblical number 666 represented not six hundred sixty six but 6, 6, 6. three consecutive previous attempts of evil to overthrow God (7) but falling short. somewhat corallary i noticed that there are 3 major pre-historic eras on this planet, according to sedimentary records. three major catastrophic events have occured and left an entire ecosystem as nothing more than a shadow...

...

the moral i learned, as you hinted in your last post, was to keep things as simple as circumstances will allow; over complicating things, even your own perspective, can cause you to miss the point.

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ive also made a theory based on the simple numbers. after many painfully bad trips on different dissociatives, ive come to this conclusion (its kinda scattered but bare with me):

humans are the devil. and this is the age of satan.

3 has a been a very important number in human society. it represents the tangible universe. mind body and spirit. the holy trinity. you, whats not u, and whats connecting it all. the three spatial dimensions. the pentagram used in the occult, 5 is the third prime number. even 'third times the charm'.

earth is the third planet closest to the sun

in the christian world, 3 represents god. the perception we hold distorts the world around us in the sense that we view our reality rather than whats really there. this is obvious when u see how u assumed God to be 7. u created a view that already accepted the existence of god and the devil, and put god one step higher than lucifer. (maybe this is why many people subconsciously hold 'lucky number 7' as a significant number). but 3 is actually god.

1-father (god in the eye of humans)
2-son (jesus, humans connection to god)
3-the holy spirit (god in his tru form)
lucifer, in a mockery of god, holds 6.
7-human males
8-human females (females are a more solid version the human strain. theyre more structurally sound being they hold two x chromozomes, rather than and x and a y. they are more symmetrical in a way. there are more females on the planet because they are naturally more resistant to disease and mutation. generally, males act more socially dominant out of competition. they have to work a lil harder to find a mate.((i find it interesting that the infinite symbol is a sidewase 8. if we do 'live' after death, our mother physically connects us to the universe during our creation)))
two more pares left, 4&5, and 9&0.
i attributed the pair of 4&5 to representing perception and the duality of life. they sit in the first half of the number scale with the rest of things that are out of our control. naturally, when u compare two things, their traits are always going to be the same or opposite, because when u compare u construct a theoretical universe in which only the two things exist. when u examine one thing, there is always polar opposite in its traits. some things are more obvious than others. spheres and other symmetrical objects seem unique because of this. human perception is based on a complicated collection of dualistic thoughts.
i attributed 9&0 to continuing the duality in a more literal way, representing existence and non existence. life and death. 9 is reality and 0 is nil. nine (an upside down 6) holds prominence over both 6&3 and god and lucifer. no matter how strong ur faith is in a deity, the only real truth of reality is ur perception. everything else is dependent on u perceiving. 0 is the ending of perception, 0 is death. but 0 starts a new cycle.

humans are the devil. the bible has been distorted over the years. jesus's teachings of peace have been bastardized into supporting a system of oppression. because of original sin, people are taught to believe that they are inherently evil. just as lucifer descended from god's realm, we will one day return back to the source of all things.

in death, there is no perception. there is no good and bad, no happiness, no torture. without perception, reality is irrelevant. true singularity.

people say that its impossible for something to be created from nothing. but actually nothing is the only thing that can create, otherwise its just something changing. only death can become life.

i believe our faith forms the way our world will be in our next life. true faith, not somebody saying they accept jesus as their savior in hopes to going to "heaven". tru faith comes from a clear idea of the world around u and ur interactions in it. if u feel guilty and ashamed, u may be born into "hell". if u have a happy life and u have a good conscience, the next life may be enjoyable.

anyway... back to the number theory. this is the age of satan. satan represents humans as animals. acting without the 'will of god' is seen threw the churches eyes as defying Him. human kind is slowly reverting back into the animalistic mindset. throwing away the self-righteous belief that we are more than animals, we let go of the faith of a benevolent, all-knowing creator. sinning is popular in most cultures. the urge for instant-gratification is propelled by science, each generation becomes more and more indulgent.

the apocalypse is the death of God, not the destruction of earth, necessarily. but it very well may be. if 666 represents attempts to over throw god, there have been two. first time lucifer got kicked out, second time human kind got kicked out. we are living in the third age right now, and "third times the charm".

with the theory of relativity, einstien dissected the fourth dimension, time. proving that time fluctuates, and it is not static, changes things. with a static timeline, a beginning and end is needed. people often assumed that there had to be a Creator in order for a beginning to exist. but if time is an illusion, if it carries no real importance, if it is just a natural byproduct of perception, there was no real beginning. without a static timeline, the standard boundaries of existence are thrown out the window.

by understanding the nature of time, we move into the fourth age of science. most scientists do not believe the Holy Bible's blatant literal version of god's nature as conscious creator of the universe.

death is enlightenment. with the ending of this life, a new age of knowledge is applied. people all over the world meditate by concentrating on nothing. removing all thoughts from the mind and reflecting on the nothingness they attempt to create. threw this type of meditation, tranquility and clear consciousness is achieved.

the number 666 is used by many to predict the coming of the antichrist and the beginning of the apocalypse. apocalypse is now. i am the antichrist. u are the antichrist if u accept what is right in front of u.

over the years, god has changed. he now supports war. his words now work parallel with evil intentions. many people believe that the 3rd world war will bring mass destruction, fulfilling biblical predictions. our science, which has evolved past the need of god, will allow us to destroy everything humans have built. at this point i believe that we must throw away our back-water view of reality in order to save our history.

conservative thought insists we must all conform to the ideals of the past, rather than adapt to the ever-changing reality. human society has always been a vicious creature, and holding onto outdated ideals will never change that.

the rapture following the nuclear holocaust will not be be followed by millions arriving at the pearly gates. the rapture will be widespread enlightenment threw singularity. the great equalizer.

so as far as i can figure, we can give up our belief in this cosmic babysitter, or we will surely be meeting him soon, and many will be disappointed to see that theyve personally known him the whole time.

in the biggest picture, we are all one.

skunkushybrid said:

If you didn't care you wouldn't bother writing in this thread. It is only natural to search for answers. Ignorance is not bliss.

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I posted in this thread not because I care about knowing if God exists or not, I've gotten well past caring. I posted here to point out that no one knows, and saying that you do know for sure is irrational. Plus it doesn't even matter anyways, so why even say god exists or god doesnt exist. To me there is no point. As stated I feel prepared for whatever it turns out to be, so when it comes to the subject of God, ignorace might as well be bliss for me. Knowing wouldn't change a single thing, except I guess it would just make me that much more prepared.

Your main reasoning behind God not existing seems to be that because he was made up, he couldn't exist. This makes sense in a way. It makes it easy to lump God into the same category as say, Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, fairies, similarly made up figures, etc...The main difference between these figures though, and what puts them in a different category alltogether, are the reasoning behind creating them. Santa Clause and the like were made up for entertainment's sake, mainly for children. belief in God, on the other hand, was formed out of rationale. People observed the world around them, making note of the perfect equilibrium of nature, the awestrucking beauty of it all, and said to themselves, "how could this NOT have been made by someone, something...". The greeks did a similar thing in predicting that the earth was round. None of them had actually been into outer space to see earth, but they knew, or rather theorized that the earth was round based on their widespread travels. Granted, this comparison is somewhat of a stretch, since the greeks had some sort of physical evidence to fuel their belief ("natures equilibrium" is a little abstract to be considered physical evidence I guess), but the fact still remains that they had not seen the earth in it's entirety for themselves, much less had been able to travel the entire surface of the planet (Or had they? historical records/maps can be lost to time forever...). They weren't 100% positive, yet they turned out to be right. That fact alone doesn't atleast make you question a teeny little bit?

Oh and to fully answer your question, Fairies could possibly exist, either in the past, the future, in another galaxy, etc... How is it not possible for them to have existed at one but now be extinct? Historical records can be lost after all... Do you think it's physically impossible (but again, very unlikely) for a being to evolve over time to have the exact same characteristics as the fairies described in childrens tales? Ever heard of a coincidence?

eatinbabybrains said:

I posted in this thread not because I care about knowing if God exists or not, I've gotten well past caring. I posted here to point out that no one knows, and saying that you do know for sure is irrational. Plus it doesn't even matter anyways, so why even say god exists or god doesnt exist. To me there is no point. As stated I feel prepared for whatever it turns out to be, so when it comes to the subject of God, ignorace might as well be bliss for me. Knowing wouldn't change a single thing, except I guess it would just make me that much more prepared.

Your main reasoning behind God not existing seems to be that because he was made up, he couldn't exist. This makes sense in a way. It makes it easy to lump God into the same category as say, Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, fairies, similarly made up figures, etc...The main difference between these figures though, and what puts them in a different category alltogether, are the reasoning behind creating them. Santa Clause and the like were made up for entertainment's sake, mainly for children. belief in God, on the other hand, was formed out of rationale. People observed the world around them, making note of the perfect equilibrium of nature, the awestrucking beauty of it all, and said to themselves, "how could this NOT have been made by someone, something...". The greeks did a similar thing in predicting that the earth was round. None of them had actually been into outer space to see earth, but they knew, or rather theorized that the earth was round based on their widespread travels. Granted, this comparison is somewhat of a stretch, since the greeks had some sort of physical evidence to fuel their belief ("natures equilibrium" is a little abstract to be considered physical evidence I guess), but the fact still remains that they had not seen the earth in it's entirety for themselves, much less had been able to travel the entire surface of the planet (Or had they? historical records/maps can be lost to time forever...). They weren't 100% positive, yet they turned out to be right. That fact alone doesn't atleast make you question a teeny little bit?

Oh and to fully answer your question, Fairies could possibly exist, either in the past, the future, in another galaxy, etc... How is it not possible for them to have existed at one but now be extinct? Historical records can be lost after all... Do you think it's physically impossible (but again, very unlikely) for a being to evolve over time to have the exact same characteristics as the fairies described in childrens tales? Ever heard of a coincidence?

Click to expand...

Yes. fairies were made up by an author, by a man, from a man's imagination. I'm not sure of the author that created them, maybe barrie or tolkien. My argument isn't against the basis of any mythical belief. My argument is that just as I know there are no such thing as fairies, I know there are no gods. It seems quite a few people have a problem with this, and are quite willing to admit that fairies could exist.

Hey preo, we are also god. The struggle is within us both individually and as a whole. The bible tells us this in a very cryptic way. We will not destroy ourselves (apocolypse). At least, I don't believe we will.

alright, alot of people seem to think that beleiving in a god just because it may be possible is a reasonable mindset. if it didnt have such a solid tradition, christianity would be considered a paranoid delusion by doctors.

eatinbabybrains said:

belief in God, on the other hand, was formed out of rationale. People observed the world around them, making note of the perfect equilibrium of nature, the awestrucking beauty of it all, and said to themselves, "how could this NOT have been made by someone, something...". The greeks did a similar thing in predicting that the earth was round. None of them had actually been into outer space to see earth, but they knew, or rather theorized that the earth was round based on their widespread travels.

Click to expand...

its not at all a stretch to compare the two. the greeks came to a logical conclusion after looking at the facts. but believing that this physical world was physically created by somebody because of how complex it is an illogical conclusion. children believe in santa because they are told that if they are good, good things will happen to them. because they are inexperienced and gullible, they believe all the flying raindeer crap.

seeing the complexity of the universe does not prove the existence of god. it proves how complex humans, and more directly, you, have become at viewing reality.

gods have never been more than a representation of human perception. and this is what skh and i have been saying since day one.

views of spirituality have always been restricted by social terms and ideals.

even if u attempt to form spiritual ideas urself, they are restricted to ur view of the universe. they are irrelevant to the 'real world'.

if u continue to separate urself from the rest of things, u do not conserve ur right to believe what u are experiencing is real. to hold spiritual beliefs, they must pertain to the universe as a whole.

u cant use physical proof of ur existence to logically prove anything about something that is bigger than u. u do this when u say that the universe is too complex to not be created by somebody, something somewhere.

eatinbabybrains said:

I posted in this thread not because I care about knowing if God exists or not, I've gotten well past caring. I posted here to point out that no one knows, and saying that you do know for sure is irrational. Plus it doesn't even matter anyways, so why even say god exists or god doesnt exist. To me there is no point. As stated I feel prepared for whatever it turns out to be, so when it comes to the subject of God, ignorace might as well be bliss for me. Knowing wouldn't change a single thing, except I guess it would just make me that much more prepared.

Click to expand...

alot of people allow themselves to have a bias in these discussions, this is obvious with both thnkr and skh. if u really "dont care", pat urself on the back, ur halfway there. now apply this mindset to ur rationale instead of entertaining a childish view.

eatin and thnkr, u arent theists, per say. skunk and i wont argue this, what is being said is that ur silly. ridiculous even. u entertain the idea of creationism because is seems logical threw by-proxy reasoning.

skh is an atheist. re doesnt call himself one out of spite, but thats what he is. the label we give somebody that doesnt believe in a deity an atheist. and id say he is a person of faith. skunk has faith in the non-existence of god.

i say, sure it might be possible something created us. but u cant stop it there, something had to create our creator. so the relationship between us and Him shouldnt be considered relevant in describing the universe. if this supposed god were to judge me id tell him to piss off.

i dont believe that true choice exists tho, so that molds my view a bit. this is my assumption. this is my faith. i believe that the physical universe can only exist in a neutral, limitless fashion, and the falsehood of choice is a rational continuation of the same idea. perception isnt even real in a way. we feel the changing of perception, not perception itself. the transition between existence and nonexistence and back. just as our bodies will eventually decompose to nothing, or change into something else rather, our perception will change into something completely unrecognizable by us.

im pretty sure that the next life will be shaped in part by what i am doing right now, but i wont be me to experience it. it seems to me that death is simple. when i die i will end. completely. something new might emerge, so i follow my conscience, ensuring that i fully enjoy my life now and i dont complicate the way of things.

fuck im starting to ramble.. so my point is that even maybe believing in god is foolish. use that piece of mind for something more productive/enjoyable.

skunkushybrid said:

Hey preo, we are also god. The struggle is within us both individually and as a whole. The bible tells us this in a very cryptic way. We will not destroy ourselves (apocolypse). At least, I don't believe we will.

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i agree. that last post was in an attempt to connect with those trying to take messages out of the bible. the bible, and the church surrounding it even more, want to make us think we are inferior and that we should be ashamed. money makes the world go round.

heaven and hell are just representations of our future. nothing deeper. if u have a conscience follow it, because ull answer to urself tomorrow in one form our another. theres a direct reaction because the only thing that separates now from the future is time and our perception of it.

i hope we dont destroy ourselves, but if people still fight wars over social differences, each day the chances get higher that we will. religion needs to evolve into a flexible social code instead of this old-school metaphysics bs. tolerance between societies will be the key to peace, but theres no fun in peace all the time. self-preservation should be the law of the land, but people are still getting snagged by fear of the afterlife.

when all the bs religions die out (and they will, as i assume ull agree) the "real world" will be that much more to deal with i bet. the ups and downs in life will still be there, but it wont exist in all this rhetorical, theoretical way. alot of people may freak out without big brother telling them everythings going to be alright.

u cant know peace till uve had suffering

jumping back and forth, and forth and back
once more oblivious to what it is im looking for

preoQpydDlusion said:

alright, alot of people seem to think that beleiving in a god just because it may be possible is a reasonable mindset. if it didnt have such a solid tradition, christianity would be considered a paranoid delusion by doctors.



its not at all a stretch to compare the two. the greeks came to a logical conclusion after looking at the facts. but believing that this physical world was physically created by somebody because of how complex it is an illogical conclusion. children believe in santa because they are told that if they are good, good things will happen to them. because they are inexperienced and gullible, they believe all the flying raindeer crap.

seeing the complexity of the universe does not prove the existence of god. it proves how complex humans, and more directly, you, have become at viewing reality.

gods have never been more than a representation of human perception. and this is what skh and i have been saying since day one.

views of spirituality have always been restricted by social terms and ideals.

even if u attempt to form spiritual ideas urself, they are restricted to ur view of the universe. they are irrelevant to the 'real world'.

if u continue to separate urself from the rest of things, u do not conserve ur right to believe what u are experiencing is real. to hold spiritual beliefs, they must pertain to the universe as a whole.

u cant use physical proof of ur existence to logically prove anything about something that is bigger than u. u do this when u say that the universe is too complex to not be created by somebody, something somewhere.



alot of people allow themselves to have a bias in these discussions, this is obvious with both thnkr and skh. if u really "dont care", pat urself on the back, ur halfway there. now apply this mindset to ur rationale instead of entertaining a childish view.

eatin and thnkr, u arent theists, per say. skunk and i wont argue this, what is being said is that ur silly. ridiculous even. u entertain the idea of creationism because is seems logical threw by-proxy reasoning.

skh is an atheist. re doesnt call himself one out of spite, but thats what he is. the label we give somebody that doesnt believe in a deity an atheist. and id say he is a person of faith. skunk has faith in the non-existence of god.

i say, sure it might be possible something created us. but u cant stop it there, something had to create our creator. so the relationship between us and Him shouldnt be considered relevant in describing the universe. if this supposed god were to judge me id tell him to piss off.

i dont believe that true choice exists tho, so that molds my view a bit. this is my assumption. this is my faith. i believe that the physical universe can only exist in a neutral, limitless fashion, and the falsehood of choice is a rational continuation of the same idea. perception isnt even real in a way. we feel the changing of perception, not perception itself. the transition between existence and nonexistence and back. just as our bodies will eventually decompose to nothing, or change into something else rather, our perception will change into something completely unrecognizable by us.

im pretty sure that the next life will be shaped in part by what i am doing right now, but i wont be me to experience it. it seems to me that death is simple. when i die i will end. completely. something new might emerge, so i follow my conscience, ensuring that i fully enjoy my life now and i dont complicate the way of things.

fuck im starting to ramble.. so my point is that even maybe believing in god is foolish. use that piece of mind for something more productive/enjoyable.

Click to expand...

Great post, You bring up some very good points and I will contemplate your words. But there's a few things I want to bring up. For one thing, you said it's possible for someone to have created us, which is as far as my belief goes, yet you also said that even maby believing is foolish.

Also, I am a firm believer in newton's law stating that every action must have an equal reaction. Using this logic I assume that there must be some equal force behind the universe (not necessaily God, or what we define as "god"). That's really the main reason I havn't fully accepted God as non-existant. If Newton's law held true for the universe, that would mean that something equal to the universe would also have to exist. But for it to exist, it would have to exist outside of the universe correct? if it was inside the universe, it would simply be part of it. And if it existed outside of the universe, that would mean we wouldn't be able to percieve it. It would be physically impossible (for now). So in conclusion, god could exist, hell anything could exist if we can't percieve it, but we currently do not have the means to confirm it. Does this make any sense???

Isn't newton's law that every action must have an equal but opposite reaction? I need to know this before I post any more.

skunkushybrid said:

Isn't newton's law that every action must have an equal but opposite reaction? I need to know this before I post any more.

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oh shit

nope. as far as i kno, newton never wrote that. thats the abridged version taught to folks in school. i find it very interesting that the word 'opposite' was used as well. newton wrote formulas and such, the education system has interfered and added a certain amount of duality into the picture.

ive spent countless paranoid hours basing theories using this 'equal but opposite' bit, and now i feel even worse, because the scientific reasoning behind it was never sound. never thought about it till now.

eatinbabybrains said:

Great post, You bring up some very good points and I will contemplate your words. But there's a few things I want to bring up. For one thing, you said it's possible for someone to have created us, which is as far as my belief goes, yet you also said that even maby believing is foolish.

Also, I am a firm believer in newton's law stating that every action must have an equal reaction. Using this logic I assume that there must be some equal force behind the universe (not necessaily God, or what we define as "god"). That's really the main reason I havn't fully accepted God as non-existant. If Newton's law held true for the universe, that would mean that something equal to the universe would also have to exist. But for it to exist, it would have to exist outside of the universe correct? if it was inside the universe, it would simply be part of it. And if it existed outside of the universe, that would mean we wouldn't be able to percieve it. It would be physically impossible (for now). So in conclusion, god could exist, hell anything could exist if we can't percieve it, but we currently do not have the means to confirm it. Does this make any sense???

Click to expand...

i see how the first part can be considered contradictory. i dont know how i worded it (sorry im too lazy to look) but the misconception may have been constructed by ur mind as a pre-eminent rebuttal against my logic. if u read somebodies thoughts that u dont agree with, make sure u try to understand them with the best of ur abilities. its possible that the contradiction is only existent in ur interpretation in some cases.

i think its foolish to stop belief at the point u did. for all i know a big white-bearded man in a white robe created everything that directly pertains to human existence. but He didnt make himself, and he didnt make the realm of our universe and the realm of his. people that feed into the babysitter mindset ("God has a plan. He works in mysterious ways. if i was baptized and i consider myself an underling of Christs, i will live in a city of clouds after i die") are too afraid to see the idiocy here. if we cant create ourselves, neither can the robe dude.

i apologize for not reading enough of ur posts to form a good idea of what ur beliefs seems to be. i often use this forum for releasing feelings, and i tend to jump down any1s throat who uses the word "God" in faith. as i have done with thnkr in the past, i assumed u were a subscriber to the literal interpretation of the holy bible. i see now that these type of people nowadays are few and far between. skunk and i should celebrate this.

i also believe there must be an equal force in the universe, but the force is also part of the universe in my model. these can be two very different ideas for some. the equal force is irrelevant because it is inherent to the nature of reality. the force is perception.

my definition of universe includes everything. universe = everything (including the opposite- nothing). i have respect for spiritual models that hold ur type of definition of god. (thnkr has also spoke of a tire-spoke model that i respect, for the record) its the only one that makes sense imo. u describe god as the power that holds everything together. it might not have consciousness right?

i dont think its appropriate to say u believe in god. because of the people of the past, God is a man. in the US and Europe the christian religion monopolizes the use of the words "God" and "Lord" and to use them to describe anything but a monotheist rationale is simply misleading to others.

but in this thread i see that its just practical to call a great 'spiritual' power "god".

as for ur universal model, its just a matter of miscommunication once again. u look at things as being "the universe" and "god". i just call this the universe. to me, the universe encompasses the physical plain as well as what holds it together.

as far as i can tell (as long as im understanding what ur saying) i dont have any arguments with u.

FOR THE RECORD- MY BELIEFS INCLUDE (but may not necessarily be confined to)

- nobody made "the real" universe
- choice is an illusion
- time is an illusion
- the existence of ones perception is the only truth
- the underlying pattern that connects everything in ones life is directly reflective of ones own "choices"

have u guys seen the movie "I (heart) Huckabees"? i really need to see that again...

So let me get this straigth preo, you believe the "real" universe has allways existed and allways will, and because it was never actually "created" it has no force behind it designated by newton's law other than itself. Is this a correct assumption of your beliefs? It sounds like a very likely possibility to me.

There is only one universe. How could there be a fake one?

The universe wasn't created it came into being. Just as a deity worshipper believes that their god did.

God is everywhere, this is what we are taught. What is everywhere?

The universe.

the fake ones are the ones we experience every day. we all live in alternate universes because what we see is limited to our abilities. our perception is skewed by our opinions, which will never be infallible when pertaining to a neutral, boundless universe.

eatin, yeah what u wrote is exactly what i believe. most creationist believe the same thing, they just complicate things by saying that the rational being that 'creates' everything is God while i say its me.

i mold my own views every day. i create my reality every day. my reality is completely disconnected from your reality, so while i consider my self God in my own right, i still honor the views and wishes of other 'gods'.

the only thing that connects everybodys realities is the faith that the real world exists. the faith that what you are seeing, feeling, etc. is actually based on something else.

this is the faith that almost everybody holds. on a semi-regular basis (at least twice a month) i take large amounts of cough syrup. i get fucked up, have fun, but it also effects my mind in a very interesting way. when i reach a certain point of the trip (the effects of the trip usually lasts up to five or so hours) the dissociative effects peak, forcing me to have a very simplistic view of the world around me, and the anesthetic effects take hold, making me completely numb. my eyes dilate and everything is very vivid and sharp. (this period is usually 2 hrs or so. curiously, it feels exactly like half the trip)

at this point the delusions take hold. somehow the combination of drugs make me know that i am all alone. i am God and everybody around me is just a figment of my imagination.

they are created in my likeness. when i am not around they dont exist.

when i first started receiving the delusions i was paranoid out of my mind. i usually had smoked too much at the point of feeling this, so the feeling it could sometimes could start a spiraling effect in my mind and everything wold start looping. id obsess about it for hours. never reflecting on it, my mind paralyzed in aw of it.

when i stopped smoking weed as much i was surprised to see that feeling came back, this time without the paranoia. i starting reflecting on the implications of my feelings and started to see how truthful it is.

every body's seen the matrix. the whole 'mind in a vat' idea is nothing new. we all might be a disconnected brains is jars, and i started entertaining the idea that we only experiencing the waves in the jar that we are making.

this is tru when u consider that the world model around u in your mind is a big comparison to u and ur feelings.

but u didnt choose to be born. so i started dissecting the possibility of the non-existence of choice.

while u can conclude u are completely separate from ur surroundings, nothing really separates u from ur surroundings. in the physical world, u are a natural product of the forces around u. as u gain force urself, u effect the world. but when u get down to it, ur creation and ur death is determined by the real world as much as u.

so i gather, in the big picture, the universe as a whole is limitless, without boundaries, without perception. because it is perception.

the real world doesnt really exist, its just us perceiving perception. when we disconnect ourselves from it by comparing part of it to another, we complicate things 3 fold. it distorts the big picture by giving a fuzzy definition for whats u, whats not u, and what separates/keeps it all together.

separating ourselves from and believing in god only fixes a problem that we caused in the first place. having faith in the nonexistence of one still leaves u disproportionate to the rest of the world, because labels are not finite. everything is made of something, labels are never ending, and very between different views.

i actually created a graph supporting all this using my trip experiences as proof. this proof is only completely obvious to me, but those who experience deja vu when tripping on dxm find it very interesting.

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the number three is really cool. when i was paranoid id say "everything happens twice" all the time. id remember dreams from childhood that resembled my present, real life. id wake up the next day with a more sound mind and discredit the line, attributing it too insane judgment, but id entertain it by seeing the duality in everything around me. the duality obsession helped me explain some things, but the number three completed it.

everything happens thrice. in one of my "despace" graphs (a buddy of mine named the delusional period of the coricidin trip "D-space, referring to Dxm. i now reffer to the phase as 'de-space' because of my theory.) when u loose ur ability to perceive, u become like a child. your perception is simple, and if ur memory goes back far enough, u might be able to remember past experiences that u reacted to in a similar way. the numbness of despace is similar to the feeling of sleeping. id experience horrific childhood nightmares in real life during my phase of paranoia. some of the dreams were reoccurring. (as in id dreamt it several times, and i tripped threw it several times. these were usually when i was fuckin around with salvia) the feeling of deja vu was obvious beyond the shadow of a doubt.

picture a graph with only X and Y axis. this graph will represent my life. X equals time, and Y equals the depth of my perception. normally, the graph holds a positive pattern in both axis, but at times it dips. i would assume these dips do be representations of bodily harm, psychological damage, etc. behind my jagged line, a fluid line makes a similar path.

when my line on the graph dips down, it passes through the other line more than normal. if u dont log the positive gain of brain function over time (gained threw growing, getting wiser) my line will instead of tracing the other line, it will dissect it at least three times. the other line is what i actually experience in life. my reality.

i said 'everything happens twice' because i was in a dark place and i dreaded being alive. i thought i was going to die at times. now living a positive, happy life i see the importance of the number three.

2 & 3. 23. people have obsessed about this number in the past as well. it pops up in really weird places sometimes, but the actual events dont have much in common, its the peoples reaction. its the perception


that is a complete version of my ideas. i practically wrote my biography. what do u guys think?

Back when I was taking a lot of stimulants I suffered very similar delusions. I believed that I was at the centre of the earth, that I had created everything, every body. This is common when the body is run down and your head is absolutely mashed with stimulants over a long period of time.

I believe in psychological circles it even has a name... god complex or something. The extreme in this line of thinking leads to insanity, a complete disassociation from reality. Not you though preo', i think you have it down to a tee... except maybe the thing with choice. I believe choice is the creator of these realities.

The fake universes only exist in the mind of the individual (I was being a little pedantic with the (uni)verse thing). So even people apparently sharing the same universe (co-habiting) will be living their own individual reality. These realities are brought about by choice, and what we choose to believe. We make these choices subconsciously, without awareness, all the time. We may also choose to be born, what separates us from the other however-millions of sperm that swam for that egg? Even at this stage of our development we are presented with choices, I think it's something like 90% of a man's sperm will swim the wrong way.

i never thought about that. but just because u are a male, dont forget u are also ur mother. egg just sits there.

i agree that choice does exist in a way, but its not as black and white as it normally is portrayed. its an illision, its only half there. so ill agree that choice is the creator, tho creation really isnt all that important because of the whole static timeline deal.

everyone is always trying to figure it out... whats it all about??? This will never change and no one will ever know... If we were meant to understand in life then someone would have figured this out long ago... and since we will never know knowledge is only what you perceive it to be... If in fact everyone shapes their own reality then why isn't the world perfect... Simple answer ying and yang... where there exists the will for positive there is also the will for negative... therefore people travel through lives trying to achieve their goals and when choices come up there is a fork... this fork represents ying and yang... now when another fork comes up the choices made prior loop back around and your new set of choices either has a stronger lean towards positive or negative... And when you make yet another choice the tally is redone and your overall positive energy can increase or the opposite... Creation and destruction... However in a true sense time does not exist... because as far as we are concerned the universe always was and always will be... This makes time null and void because for time to have meaning there has to be a beginning and end... Time is a tool of humans and our perception of it is as those who came before us saw it... However if one were to look at time as a circle then it comes more clearly into view... this is what time and life truly is and why eternity is represented as a circle... Things just keep happening over and over again and the only things that change are the choices made... De ja vu for instance is caused when a circle comes back around to the beginning.... That is your brain saying hey i've been here before and indeed you have.... just as a cd will start playing again when it hits the end however it will not play at the same time nor the same way... so it is starting over yet it is older and the sequence won't be in the same time frame as it was before... Thats all for now...

And of couse since I am a philosopher of universal reality (seriously) I can settle the agruement. Ordained minister thru universal life church. Date of ordination 11/18/2004.

I don't believe in deja vu. Not in the respect of actually having been somewhere before when you haven't. The answer is quite simple and it's geography and architecture. You could go to a strange place and you may walk down a street that has similar buildings in a similar setting to somewhere you have been before. The street may even be from a dream or a confusion of places you know.

It's a nice feeling when you allow that shiver to travel the length of your spine. An excited fear, as you know deep down that there isn't really anything to fear at all.

frthnkr85 said:

everyone is always trying to figure it out... whats it all about??? This will never change and no one will ever know... If we were meant to understand in life then someone would have figured this out long ago... and since we will never know knowledge is only what you perceive it to be... If in fact everyone shapes their own reality then why isn't the world perfect

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thnkr, ur so negative. ppl do know what its all about. children are born with the knowledge. there is no point. if anything, simply perceiving is the "point".

"if we were "meant" to understand..."
"then whey isnt the perfect"
this is the type of stuff that u say that has me refuse to call u frthnkr. the world is perfect, theres no scale to judge it. we arent meant to do anything, wording stuff like that assumes that another being created us with a reason.

i like ur cd on repeat analogy for deja vu. but the cd of perception gets distorted over time, by the time u listen to it again, it has changed. deja vu only seems identical to those with fuzzy feelings. as in not being able to get a clear view. experience is applicable to all aspects of life, and deja vu is no exception. ive felt over-whelming deja vu countless times. id guess around 200+, with all honesty. the first handful of times i sat awestruck, but after a while i saw distortion.

deja vu is def an illusion, but so is everything else. my deja vu is based on experiencing dreams i had a long time ago, and it definitely happens. i think its impossible to "see" more than half of the real world at a time, the two experiences are identical, but different.

when i dreamt of my friends that i hadnt met yet as a child, (funny enough, i had 3 close friends at the time) i didnt see their faces. when i was tripping out i rarely looked directly into ppls eyes. sometimes id get a view of buddy C's eyeglass rims, not much more than that. the dreams were very uncomfortable when i was a child, i got strong feeling of being compressed (part of a coricidin trip gives this feeling) and when i re-experienced them, i felt the same thing. i never have felt this feeling before in my life, so it can be easy to remember the nightmares from 15 years ago.

so, mogie, are u going to present ur view? i really cant see a flaw in mine, ill bet that ours are similar.

first of all do you guys read posts or do you just skim??? first of all i'm anything but negative i just know that we can't figure this topic out we just can all give our opinions and learn from each other... skunk do you believe that there is a beginning to the universe??? answer that question for me??? see i know that reality is about perception and we all see reality as we perceive it individually so we all have different ideas what the purpose of life is and how we all got here etc.... So since we are not all robots and don't all think the same and do the same things then reality is flawed as it is meant to be.... there is no such thing as perfect just as there is no such thing as imperfect... Overall reality is grey because there is a mix of good and bad creation destruction good and evil... And the choices that we all make are not scripted but are random for each person and each situation... The universe works on this same scale... the choices instead are not good and evil but creation and destruction... you see sometimes the universe creates sometimes it destroys once again all completly random depending on the situation... one last thing even if you don't believe in a soul you still never really die... you just fail to live in this reality anymore... because your atoms that make up your body will not deteriorate... they will be released back into the world and continue to exist... and i am a frthnkr preo but i don't need drugs to make me that way... i view the universe as it is and i think with a sober mind... nuff said...