The Final Days of the Trump Administration.

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
there's a comma in there....the other, fascist groups....not the other fascist groups...

i guess i missed the last one, not actually quoting numbers, just saying what it looks like when they cover it, always looks like at least three proud boys for each antifa member
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Nope.

We are Anti-fascist just like the skinny kids in black. We are one. At each and every counter demonstration Anti-fascists have outnumbered the fascists by between 3-to-5 to their one.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Nope.

We are Anti-fascist just like the skinny kids in black. We are one. At each and every counter demonstration Anti-fascists have outnumbered the fascists by between 3-to-5 to their one.
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Think of all the allies you have and don't disappoint them, the national security and law enforcement communities as well as the legal profession are in the democratic camp now and are leading the fight for the country and constitution. For example I don't think there are many republicans left in the FBI or CIA by now, do you? It's hard for cops to be against protesters who are led by lawyers and who carry signs supporting the rule of law and FBI!

I expect a continuous "LOCK HIM UP!" chant by large crowds on the WH lawn one day as the heat gets dialed up, I don't think you'll see any fascists among that crowd, though there might be torches and pitch forks too...
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
As to why this "has taken so long"? There is such a thing as the first amendment and past efforts to de-certify protests were blocked by the courts. The city is trying to find a way to block the demonstrations AND stay within the legal confines of our constitution. This takes political will. The pressure we are putting on the mayor make it necessary for him to find this will. Not just him either. The other city leaders need to be pressured too.

Politics aren't linear processes. I'm not surprised that the Portland government has taking two years to find a spine. We have to keep up the pressure and eventually it will happen. It will seem as if nothing is happening then all of a sudden it will be done.
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good answer...i can accept that. keep it up.....i think you need a better organized front at the actual events, but the political pressure is good, keep it up.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Nope.

We are Anti-fascist just like the skinny kids in black. We are one. At each and every counter demonstration Anti-fascists have outnumbered the fascists by between 3-to-5 to their one.
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i know you aren't into the whole "organization" thing, but at three to one odds, you could be very effective if you could get people to train together minimally....two or three people are usually more of a hindrance to each other, than an asset, because they get in each other's way, and a skillful opponent can turn them against each other. with a few hours of training, your guys could be a lot safer, and a lot more effective at deflecting attacks without "escalating" a confrontation. when you can block every blow, they get tired of swinging, when there's enough of you to take their weapons away...they lose interest in confronting you....
 
zeddd

zeddd

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
but you don't have a majority....as far as i've seen, antifa is always present in smaller numbers than the other, fascists groups...
i'm not trying to discourage you, do as your conscience directs you to do....why do you suppose it's taken this long for your city government to take a single useful step? one of the more liberal cities in the country...how long do you think it will take in the least liberal cities? think they'll get around to it before trump is out of office?
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So you think antifa is a brand like trump steaks?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
i know you aren't into the whole "organization" thing, but at three to one odds, you could be very effective if you could get people to train together minimally....two or three people are usually more of a hindrance to each other, than an asset, because they get in each other's way, and a skillful opponent can turn them against each other. with a few hours of training, your guys could be a lot safer, and a lot more effective at deflecting attacks without "escalating" a confrontation. when you can block every blow, they get tired of swinging, when there's enough of you to take their weapons away...they lose interest in confronting you....
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Anti-fascists aren't an organization. We don't train for combat. We don't want violence. We don't criticize the few who engage in it. We are a anarchic political movement that oppose fascists.

You completely don't understand what's going on. It's not about war. Think about it for a second. Last year there was footage showing a dozen or so people going at it. They don't show the thousands who stand peacefully in the way of the fascists and block them from marching in our streets. We have clowns, we have people in wheelchairs, we have seniors, we have women carrying. We are the people of Portland standing up to the goons who fly in from all over the country. Three or four people were hospitalized, all Anti-fascists because the goons are pretty good at cracking skulls. We are playing an entirely different game, uncle. The whole point is NOT to defeat the goons through martial might. The point is to create a fuss when the fascists try to take our streets and force the police to come in and break it up. The media is playing up the fracas as though that was the main show. It's not. Maybe for the fascists it is but not for the Anti-fascists.

We are winning too.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
Think of all the allies you have and don't disappoint them, the national security and law enforcement communities as well as the legal profession are in the democratic camp now and are leading the fight for the country and constitution. For example I don't think there are many republicans left in the FBI or CIA by now, do you? It's hard for cops to be against protesters who are led by lawyers and who carry signs supporting the rule of law and FBI!

I expect a continuous "LOCK HIM UP!" chant by large crowds on the WH lawn one day as the heat gets dialed up, I don't think you'll see any fascists among that crowd, though there might be torches and pitch forks too...
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Actually, the cops are on the side of the fascists. At least in Portland they are. They stand by and watch while the fascists charge our blockade and only come in when it's clear we aren't going to give them the excuse of imposing martial law. When the do finally act, they fire their flash grenades at us, not on the ground or at the violent fascists.

ACLU, other groups say Portland police targeted counter-protesters, used 'excessive force'
Portland police are accused of being heavy-handed and reportedly injuring people who were protesting a rally by extreme-right demonstrators on Saturday.
https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/aclu-other-groups-say-portland-police-targeted-counter-protesters-used-excessive-force/283-580470042

August 6, 2018
PORTLAND, Ore. — Police were accused Sunday of being heavy-handed against people protesting a Portland rally held by extreme-right demonstrators. Officers reportedly injured some counter-protesters, prompting the city's new police chief to order a review of officers' use of force.

Police in riot gear tried to keep apart the opposing groups, many of whom had arrived on Saturday dressed for battle, in helmets and protective clothing. Dozens of the extreme-right protesters were bussed to Portland, one of America's most liberal cities, from nearby Vancouver, Washington.

Saturday's clashes were the most recent of several this year in the city as right-wing militants converged, met by counter-protesters, including members of anti-fascist, or "antifa," groups. City officials have struggled with striking a balance between free speech and keeping events from spiraling out of control.

But on Saturday, some said police acted mostly against those protesting the presence of the extreme-right demonstrators, using stun grenades and what appeared to be rubber bullets against them.

I get it, you and others see the video and think we are creating this situation. We are not. The fascists come from all over the country. The police are infiltrated by fascists. The chief of police has even come out and said:

She told conservative talk-radio host Lars Larson she thought the protesters were acting like children who lost a schoolyard fight and had gone of to "whine and complain" after police fired flash-bang grenades, rubber bullets and pepper spray into a crowd of demonstrators. (At least two people were sent to the hospital with serious injuries after being hit directly with stun grenades launched by police, and many more have reported being hurt.)

So, we aren't going to "let you down", we are standing in front of violent people and showing them they are not only totally outnumbered but they cannot win. We will block their movements, take their shots and if they can't stop their own violence we will eventually find a way to end it all legally. Their own violence is becoming justification for the ordinance we want the Mayor to pass through the city council.
 
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Lord Kanti

Lord Kanti

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Food prices to the US consumer are the only thing that will go down under Trump's tariffs. It's fine with me if a Trump farmer loses his farm. Maybe a hard working Hispanic family will take it over.
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spoken like a true Bolshevik. :clap:
 
Unclebaldrick

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
Trump is sliding into a pit of despair. He now claims that voters in Florida were illegally voting, running out to vans where they changed clothes and, presumably put on wigs and fake noses and glasses, and then running in to vote again. Of course Trump supporters, who are mentally enfeebled, accept this because - "prove it didn't happen".

These are the last days, even it it takes two years. You just can't be this stupid without alienating every American with a brain.

Maybe it is a good thing that Melania is starting to take charge.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Unclebaldrick said:
Trump is sliding into a pit of despair. He now claims that voters in Florida were illegally voting, running out to vans where they changed clothes and, presumably put on wigs and fake noses and glasses, and then running in to vote again. Of course Trump supporters, who are mentally enfeebled, accept this because - "prove it didn't happen".

These are the last days, even it it takes two years. You just can't be this stupid without alienating every American with a brain.

Maybe it is a good thing that Melania is starting to take charge.
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I was discouraged to find out from Trump that I need an ID to buy a box of cereal. I will make sure now to show the clerk my ID when I buy Honey Nut Cheerios moving forward
 
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