The Final Days of the Trump Administration.

BarryBwana

BarryBwana

Well-Known Member
I thought these farmer types were the deplorable half of America and thus, as I've heard countless times of those types, deserve any and all misfortune that might befall them...
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
I think Donald is in a frantic fight for survival and his appointment of Whitaker will not survive a court test or senate inquiry and I figure the GOP senate will be forced into acton by Trump's behavior. I don't think he's gonna be sending "goons" anywhere, but freaking out trying to avoid humiliation, impeachment and jail. Look out, cause he's capable of literally anything, it looks like the AG, the chief of staff for the POTUS, the head of home land security and the secretary of defense, all senate confirmed positions, could all be missing soon. What would happen in the event of an emergency with all these cabinet members and officials missing? Oh yeah, "I alone can fix this", where have I heard that before...
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His goons visited Portland several times this year. Do you think that's just going to end? Why is that?

In speeches this year, Trump endorsed violence upon liberals as a precursor to more. I think it's a signal that the violence is going to get worse next year. People should start thinking about what they should do about it.

I don't think there is any condition that will cause them to remove Trump from office. The GOP has become a cult of Trump. We will just have to continue to disagree on our predictions about what the GOP Senate is going to do.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
His goons visited Portland several times this year. Do you think that's just going to end? Why is that?

In speeches this year, Trump endorsed violence upon liberals as a precursor to more. I think it's a signal that the violence is going to get worse next year. People should start thinking about what they should do about it.

I don't think there is any condition that will cause them to remove Trump from office. The GOP has become a cult of Trump. We will just have to continue to disagree on our predictions about what the GOP Senate is going to do.
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Trump is an idiot, not Machiavelli, though he does have a talent for "low cunning".

In America the police control the streets, not brown shirts, If these "goons" break the law they will be arrested.

I tend to agree with you about the senate, but it will get so bad as Trump panics and thrashes around that they might have to act before January 2019.

Going into 2020 the GOP senate is gonna be panicking themselves with 30 seats up for grabs, Mueller's impeachment case(s) will be air tight slam dunk affairs, Trump and crowd were arrogant, stupid and sloppy. Also Mueller won't be alone, the Stormy stuff is coming from the southern district of NYC and it is an absolute slam dunk case of an impeachable offense (the founders were quite particular about this one), cheating to win office, the evidence is overwhelming.

As head of the GOP Donald is turning red states blue at an alarming rate for the GOP, those republican senators who are up for reelection in 2020 should be squirming soon. The GOP is even having trouble in Dixie as Trump blows up the political map right down to the gerrymandered districts.
 
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Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
LOL

OK then do something instead of sit on the sidelines and tell me what I should do.
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they don't hold a lot of rallies around Knoxville...and i don't travel well.
when they do hold a rally within driving distance, i'll show up...and i'll see what i can do to stop any fuckery.....
best i can do at the moment
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
Trump is an idiot, not Machiavelli, though he does have a talent for "low cunning".

In America the police control the streets, not brown shirts, If these "goons" break the law they will be arrested.

I tend to agree with you about the senate, but it will get so bad as Trump panics and thrashes around that they might have to act before January 2019.

Going into 2020 the GOP senate is gonna be panicking themselves with 30 seats up for grabs, Mueller's impeachment case(s) will be air tight slam dunk affairs, Trump and crowd were arrogant, stupid and sloppy. Also Mueller won't be alone, the Stormy stuff is coming from the southern district of NYC and it is an absolute slam dunk case of an impeachable offense (the founders were quite particular about this one), cheating to win office, the evidence is overwhelming.
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low cunning is still dangerous....it's what moves masses...appealing directly to the lowest common denominator...in this case, it seems to be fear. it makes me wonder what all of these people are afraid of? i've lived in Knoxville, Tampa, Chicago, Minneapolis, Fargo....i've known lots of people from all over the world, and most of them are just like us. they just want to take care of their families, make a living, try to see that their kids get to go to school...a few are terrorists, here to do evil things.....so it becomes a matter of who do you blame? the people who are just like you, or the few evil bastards that slip in with them? is it fair to condemn people for something they may do? isn't the main tenet of our legal system that a person is presumed to be innocent until they are proven guilty? then that makes us hypocrites if it only applies to those it's convenient to apply it to.....which is exactly what trump is trying to do, make the law selective, and he's using this unreasonable fear to do it

a lot of the police in America would be more comfortable in brown shirts....and white sheets...not all of them, the large majority are decent people, putting themselves in danger to keep the rest of us safe...but enough are bigots, racists, proud boys.....that in some places, it wouldn't be a good idea to count on them to vigorously enforce the law against people they're very sympathetic to...
 
Unclebaldrick

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
low cunning is still dangerous....it's what moves masses...appealing directly to the lowest common denominator...in this case, it seems to be fear. it makes me wonder what all of these people are afraid of? i've lived in Knoxville, Tampa, Chicago, Minneapolis, Fargo....i've known lots of people from all over the world, and most of them are just like us. they just want to take care of their families, make a living, try to see that their kids get to go to school...a few are terrorists, here to do evil things.....so it becomes a matter of who do you blame? the people who are just like you, or the few evil bastards that slip in with them? is it fair to condemn people for something they may do? isn't the main tenet of our legal system that a person is presumed to be innocent until they are proven guilty? then that makes us hypocrites if it only applies to those it's convenient to apply it to.....

a lot of the police in America would be more comfortable in brown shirts....and white sheets...not all of them, the large majority are decent people, putting themselves in danger to keep the rest of us safe...but enough are bigots, racists, proud boys.....that in some places, it wouldn't be a good idea to count on them to vigorously enforce the law against people they're very sympathetic to...
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True that. Al Capone was kind of a dumbass. He went far on it but it bit him in the ass eventually.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Lord Kanti said:
Unless of course they wake up early and grow food.
:roll:
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i don't paint all trump voters with the same brush....some were hoping to get a fresh voice into office, an outsider that would shake things up for the better. i understand that sentiment. however, by now, it should be obvious to all but the thickest of heads, that trump isn't what they were looking for, that he's a racist, a misogynist, that he has no political ability, that his gains in the economy are temporary, and are slipping away as we watch....that he's a traitor to the country that elected him, and publicly toadies to the greatest enemy of our country that currently exists....that he's a hateful little man, who is trying to cripple the press of our country, so his lies will go unchallenged.....so anyone who STILL supports trump....is a fucking idiot....no other way to call it...
whether they get up and grow food for me or not....so yeah, farmers that support trump deserve what they get from now on.....just like all the other traitor supporting deluded idiots
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
Trump is an idiot, not Machiavelli, though he does have a talent for "low cunning".

In America the police control the streets, not brown shirts, If these "goons" break the law they will be arrested.

I tend to agree with you about the senate, but it will get so bad as Trump panics and thrashes around that they might have to act before January 2019.

Going into 2020 the GOP senate is gonna be panicking themselves with 30 seats up for grabs, Mueller's impeachment case(s) will be air tight slam dunk affairs, Trump and crowd were arrogant, stupid and sloppy. Also Mueller won't be alone, the Stormy stuff is coming from the southern district of NYC and it is an absolute slam dunk case of an impeachable offense (the founders were quite particular about this one), cheating to win office, the evidence is overwhelming.

As head of the GOP Donald is turning red states blue at an alarming rate for the GOP, those republican senators who are up for reelection in 2020 should be squirming soon. The GOP is even having trouble in Dixie as Trump blows up the political map right down to the gerrymandered districts.
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OK, so you believe what you want. You hope Republicans will act differently and I hope so too. So, let's look for signals that they are willing to change. I don't see any and here is why:

Violent Trump backed goons visited Portland and other liberal areas many times last year to bust heads and I see no ratcheting down of the rhetoric by the fascists anywhere. Without any different behavior by the violent fascists today, there is no reason to believe they are going to behave any different next year. Not to say there is no hope. Just saying there should be no hope that the Fascist GOP will take action to reduce goon violence. There is movement in the office of the Mayor of Portland to give him the power to cancel demonstrations by these violent fascist groups. My belief is that mass counter demonstrations and legal actions against fascists are the only way to stop them from doing worse next year. The legal process is slow, so we will have to put our bodies on the line until the process can be completed. Legal process might not be completed by summer of 2019. If so, then here we go again.

Same goes with the Trump controlled Senate. The Senate in 2019 is even more solidly entrenched in the cult of Trump. From everything I've seen both from the Mueller investigation and from the words and actions of Republicans, there is no sign that 2018 will be different in 2019 or maybe the Senate will be even more radical Trumpist if anything else. That said, I have no seat at the table in the Mueller investigation so, I'm not a lawyer, I'm just listening to the same stuff you are and formed a different opinion. I hope that we can just respectfully disagree about our predictions until the future becomes realized.

This is all just speculation. I'm predicting what will happen based upon what has happened and have no crystal ball. I'd like to be wrong too.

Yes, Trump is a sloppy, arrogant dick and a poor leader. Yet, 40% of this country loves him and his agenda. That is something else that has to change before we will move on to a better future.
 
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Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
they don't hold a lot of rallies around Knoxville...and i don't travel well.
when they do hold a rally within driving distance, i'll show up...and i'll see what i can do to stop any fuckery.....
best i can do at the moment
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OK then, I will just nod at the obnoxious uncle at my Thanksgiving table who tells me how it should be done by violence when I'm out there peacefully taking action and he is not leaving the comfort of his home. I've told you what I'm going to do and still believe that political pressure by the majority, not violence is the best course of action.

The strategy is,
Locals show up in very large numbers to counter demonstrate against the hate group that flies in from all over the country.
At those events, this crowd of local citizenry blocks fascists from marching through our streets to project fascist power and hate.
When the fascists become violent, which they always do, we do whatever we can to defend ourselves and our streets.
The police move in to break up the fascist demonstration and order the fascists to go home.
Use the violent actions by fascists to put pressure on the politicians to find legal means to stop them from coming back.

The strategy is working.

Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler is introducing a controversial ordinance that would give him the power to dictate the location and length of protests. He might have the votes to pass it.
OPB Nov. 8, 2018 11:03 a.m. | Portland, Ore.
https://www.opb.org/news/article/portland-ted-wheeler-regulate-protests-vote/

Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler is introducing a controversial ordinance Thursday that would give him the power to dictate the location and length of protests if he fears they pose a threat to public safety.

The ordinance could go to a vote next week.

Wheeler said the ordinance is a response to escalating violence between opposing protesters in Portland’s streets — and to the criticism and negative headlines that follow each brawl.

“Just last week NBC Nightly News ran a 60-minute piece, and during the entire 60 minutes, it just showed people beating the bejesus out of each other on the streets of our city,” Wheeler said in an interview Wednesday. “The implied question is: Where the heck is the mayor and where the heck is the police chief in trying to prevent this kind of thing from happening?”

Though the mayor generally avoids mentioning the groups by name, the ordinance is a response to two years of protests, counter-protests, and occasional brawls between the groups Patriot Prayer and Antifa.

Portland Police Chief Danielle Outlaw said she asked the mayor for “new tools” to deal with protesters after an Aug. 4 march in Portland that drew right-wing extremist groups from across the country and was dubbed “the next Charlottesville” by national media.

We are winning without taking on the same violent tactics the right uses. Just saying, let's give peace a chance.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
OK then, I will just nod at the obnoxious uncle at my Thanksgiving table who tells me how it should be done by violence when I'm out there peacefully taking action and he is not leaving the comfort of his home. I've told you what I'm going to do and still believe that political pressure by the majority, not violence is the best course of action.

The strategy is,
Locals show up in very large numbers to counter demonstrate against the hate group that flies in from all over the country.
At those events, this crowd of local citizenry blocks fascists from marching through our streets to project fascist power and hate.
When the fascists become violent, which they always do, we do whatever we can to defend ourselves and our streets.
The police move in to break up the fascist demonstration and order the fascists to go home.
Use the violent actions by fascists to put pressure on the politicians to find legal means to stop them from coming back.

The strategy is working.

Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler is introducing a controversial ordinance that would give him the power to dictate the location and length of protests. He might have the votes to pass it.
https://www.opb.org/news/article/portland-ted-wheeler-regulate-protests-vote/

Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler is introducing a controversial ordinance Thursday that would give him the power to dictate the location and length of protests if he fears they pose a threat to public safety.

The ordinance could go to a vote next week.

Wheeler said the ordinance is a response to escalating violence between opposing protesters in Portland’s streets — and to the criticism and negative headlines that follow each brawl.

“Just last week NBC Nightly News ran a 60-minute piece, and during the entire 60 minutes, it just showed people beating the bejesus out of each other on the streets of our city,” Wheeler said in an interview Wednesday. “The implied question is: Where the heck is the mayor and where the heck is the police chief in trying to prevent this kind of thing from happening?”

Though the mayor generally avoids mentioning the groups by name, the ordinance is a response to two years of protests, counter-protests, and occasional brawls between the groups Patriot Prayer and Antifa.

Portland Police Chief Danielle Outlaw said she asked the mayor for “new tools” to deal with protesters after an Aug. 4 march in Portland that drew right-wing extremist groups from across the country and was dubbed “the next Charlottesville” by national media.

We are winning without taking on the same violent tactics the right uses. Just saying, let's give peace a chance.
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but you don't have a majority....as far as i've seen, antifa is always present in smaller numbers than the other, fascists groups...
i'm not trying to discourage you, do as your conscience directs you to do....why do you suppose it's taken this long for your city government to take a single useful step? one of the more liberal cities in the country...how long do you think it will take in the least liberal cities? think they'll get around to it before trump is out of office?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
but you don't have a majority....as far as i've seen, antifa is always present in smaller numbers than the other, fascists groups...
i'm not trying to discourage you, do as your conscience directs you to do....why do you suppose it's taken this long for your city government to take a single useful step? one of the more liberal cities in the country...how long do you think it will take in the least liberal cities? think they'll get around to it before trump is out of office?
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Antifa is anti fascist. At the last visit by the fascists to Portland, there were about 700 fascists to 3,000 anti fascists.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
OK, so you believe what you want. You hope Republicans will act differently and I hope so too. So, let's look for signals that they are willing to change. I don't see any and here is why:

Violent Trump backed goons visited Portland and other liberal areas many times last year to bust heads and I see no ratcheting down of the rhetoric by the fascists anywhere. Without any different behavior by the violent fascists today, there is no reason to believe they are going to behave any different next year. Not to say there is no hope. Just saying there should be no hope that the Fascist GOP will take action to reduce goon violence. There is movement in the office of the Mayor of Portland to give him the power to cancel demonstrations by these violent fascist groups. My belief is that mass counter demonstrations and legal actions against fascists are the only way to stop them from doing worse next year. The legal process is slow, so we will have to put our bodies on the line until the process can be completed. Legal process might not be completed by summer of 2019. So, here we go again.

Same goes with the Trump controlled Senate. The Senate in 2019 is even more solidly entrenched in the cult of Trump. From everything I've seen both from the Mueller investigation and from the words and actions of Republicans, there is no sign that 2018 will be different in 2019 or maybe the Senate will be even more radical Trumpist if anything else. That said, I have no seat at the table in the Mueller investigation so, I'm not a lawyer, I'm just listening to the same stuff you are and formed a different opinion. I hope that we can just respectfully disagree about our predictions until the future becomes realized.

This is all just speculation. I'm predicting what will happen based upon what has happened and have no crystal ball. I'd like to be wrong too.

Yes, Trump is a sloppy, arrogant dick and a poor leader. Yet, 40% of this country loves him and his agenda. That is something else that has to change before we will move on to a better future.
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I'm here to have fun too and the only ones I give a hard time to are Trumpers and trolls. I just like to watch and try and predict which way the rats will run in the giant game of whack a rat that US politics has become in the age of Trump. Over 60 people went to jail over Watergate and this Trump situation is an order of magnitude bigger than that. All of this is interesting TV for a nerd like me, though I must confess, disheartening and enraging at times, we laugh and cry alternately at this dangerous heartless clown.

I don't think street violence is gonna help anybody's cause unless there is a complete social breakdown and civil war, not likely. The goons didn't help Trump much with the midterms, though I'm sure they are impressive at his rallies. The GOP senate might end up doing the right thing not because it's their duty, but out of political survival and personal spite. Even though those GOP senators up for reelection in 2020 will have the most to lose they won't speak or act, other republican senators might act against Trump though. The base might love this idiot, but the GOP elected leadership and donor class know they are on a death ride with Donald.

The 40% have always been there, but will diminish slightly over time especially with good social and political policy. The age of Trump has made American politics real clear and the difference between right and wrong couldn't be more stark.

Shakespeare would have written a humdinger of a play about Donald and the current situation I'm sure. However from a Canadian perspective it's like watching the drunk neighbors across the street through the living room window wrestle naked on their front lawn...:wink:
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Antifa is anti fascist. At the last visit by the fascists to Portland, there were about 700 fascists to 3,000 anti fascists.
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there's a comma in there....the other, fascist groups....not the other fascist groups...

i guess i missed the last one, not actually quoting numbers, just saying what it looks like when they cover it, always looks like at least three proud boys for each antifa member
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
but you don't have a majority....as far as i've seen, antifa is always present in smaller numbers than the other, fascists groups...
i'm not trying to discourage you, do as your conscience directs you to do....why do you suppose it's taken this long for your city government to take a single useful step? one of the more liberal cities in the country...how long do you think it will take in the least liberal cities? think they'll get around to it before trump is out of office?
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As to why this "has taken so long"? There is such a thing as the first amendment and past efforts to de-certify protests were blocked by the courts. The city is trying to find a way to block the demonstrations AND stay within the legal confines of our constitution. This takes political will. The pressure we are putting on the mayor make it necessary for him to find this will. Not just him either. The other city leaders need to be pressured too.

Politics aren't linear processes. I'm not surprised that the Portland government has taking two years to find a spine. We have to keep up the pressure and eventually it will happen. It will seem as if nothing is happening then all of a sudden it will be done.
 
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