Switching to LED from HPS

Kingrow1 said:

I give clear limits which come from cited work on the subject of 0.3 - 0.5m/s.

It is at the boundary where free convection becomes forced convection in terms of leaf cooling.

I just know this and other subjects at higher levels than the info on these sites, you might find a few others who say this and many scientific papers that also suggest the same after studies in these environments.

Weed stomata are linked to the environment, those that arent handle wind better like some broadleaved plants. Pinnate leaves are of a different class to some extent and most designed to create their own thermsal currents which again facilitates boundary layer transfer etc etc etc.

The info here is weak on a lot of subjects, the fact that you can grow in reasonably calm air means someone isnt telling the whole story....

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Thats still comes a slight breeze not still air, so now the topic is that at what point does the wind benefits to the plant outweigh the costs. You claim there is a cost to the plant via forced transpiration, and since I dont know I'll assume your right. So then we line up the benefits of wind, the wind at a minimum when make the plant stronger and able to produce more and larger buds. It make those buds denser. From my experience those buds will also be more covered in trichomes.

I'd call this forced transpiration issue a small one, because if your claim is correct in the first place, it's never hurt me. Wind doesn't hurt the plant as a whole until branded are breaking or the plant is wind whipped. If it was such a negative I wouldn't be getting 3-5 lb outdoor plants an nearly 2 lb indoor plants. At least to the extent I dont really care because these numbers are pretty good in my mind. Now if your getting plants larger than 2 lbs indoors I'll listen.

Mechanical movement cost a plant energy to become thicker, this dosent make for bigger yeilds over a non mechanical stressed plant as per all studies in the area.

Another myth perpetuated here, some pros will shoot you down on this point and others have written threads to support the science and stop newbies thinking making your plant sway equals bigger yeilds.

Im sorry to be so accurate, i learnt a lot through frustration here but i welcome corrections if it is cited and tested but not the old info thats stagnated here over the yeqrs.

growingforfun said:

Thats still comes a slight breeze not still air, so now the topic is that at what point does the wind benefits to the plant outweigh the costs. You claim there is a cost to the plant via forced transpiration, and since I dont know I'll assume your right. So then we line up the benefits of wind, the wind at a minimum when make the plant stronger and able to produce more and larger buds. It make those buds denser. From my experience those buds will also be more covered in trichomes.

I'd call this forced transpiration issue a small one, because if your claim is correct in the first place, it's never hurt me. Wind doesn't hurt the plant as a whole until branded are breaking or the plant is wind whipped. If it was such a negative I wouldn't be getting 3-5 lb outdoor plants an nearly 2 lb indoor plants. At least to the extent I dont really care because these numbers are pretty good in my mind. Now if your getting plants larger than 2 lbs indoors I'll listen.

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growingforfun said:

Having grown with and without fans, every single time the plants have been better with moderate airflow. I've gone so far as growing in completely still air conditions in cabinets 2x4 ft. They grow fine, but not as good as with moderate air movement.

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I've found d this to be true also. With no fans stems seem not to build up causing flopping which shades the lowers

Kingrow1 said:

Mechanical movement cost a plant energy to become thicker, this dosent make for bigger yeilds over a non mechanical stressed plant as per all studies in the area.

Another myth perpetuated here, some pros will shoot you down on this point and others have written threads to support the science and stop newbies thinking making your plant sway equals bigger yeilds.

Im sorry to be so accurate, i learnt a lot through frustration here but i welcome corrections if it is cited and tested but not the old info thats stagnated here over the yeqrs.

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This is going to be something where your going to have to do more than claim to be right... I've done years of testing.... so I'm going to need to see those links an those 2lb plus indoor plants.

growingforfun said:

Just as I thought, you never learned how to use hps.. I could point out where and why your wildly off the mark, but i don't think you'll even understand..

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That is never, ever the ethos of an argument by somebody who is fully confident.

growingforfun said:

This is going to be something where your going to have to do more than claim to be right... I've done years of testing.... so I'm going to need to see those links an those 2lb plus indoor plants.

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Im going to leave it there, if you dont want to do a little futher reading in any of the subjects and science ive put down then thats cool but its there when your ready to delve a little deeper.

I grow small plants with many small buds and not 2lb'ers, this may dissapoint you.

Flowki said:

That is never, ever the ethos of an argument by somebody who is fully confident.

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My only doubt is in you...

Kingrow1 said:

Id believe more if this site was clear on its science, until then i can point out inaccuracies and hope that one day this is cleared up.

I cant see a clear runner for all the chaff unfortunately, hps still yeilds at the forefront so ergo it is still a contender.

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It's not about the rest of this site, just the OP and now us, 4 people. Stop using this like a pawn in the house of commons.

If you can't see that hps is falling behind then you are blinded by invested ego or what ever is blocking the obvious. Hps is good, it got many people what they needed and still does today, notbody is disputing that. But, it's like i5 and i7 processors.. one still works almost as good as the next but the next is prepared for.. the next. Pay cheap for the past or pay more for the future, light tech is no different bar some pit falls you are warranted to point out. Cmh and cob are not pit falls.

growingforfun said:

My only doubt is in you...

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I've seen ignorant governments fuck up country's for century's.. yet you think you've got the future figured because you've had a decade of ''success'' with hps?. Vhs and dvd's.

Kingrow1 said:

Im going to leave it there, if you dont want to do a little futher reading in any of the subjects and science ive put down then thats cool but its there when your ready to delve a little deeper.

I grow small plants with many small buds and not 2lb'ers, this may dissapoint you.

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I think your claims should be framed in that light then. Small plants dont really exist in nature, they WANT to naturally grow over a lb. People have trained and stunted them to grow small indoors. Restricting airflow to grow small plants doesn't sound my like my cup of tea. Any plant under a lb is a disappointment to me an a signal I need to get back on track because I got lazy, like i will freely admit with my last one coming in at 12 oz, i was really mad about, and fixed hopefully. We will see here in around 8 weeks, just put her in flower last week.

Here's the thing though, you claim to be very scientific, exact, and well informed, but you wont back up your claims with links back to the science. I only value something written so much in the first place.. I'm results driven.. and I feel like my own tests have clearly shown me that a light breeze is key to a healthy plant that will support a healthy harvest. This may be a moment you could circle back and make sure your also doing your best work.

Flowki said:

It's not about the rest of this site, just the OP and now us, 4 people. Stop using this like a pawn in the house of commons.

If you can't see that hps is falling behind then you are blinded by invested ego or what ever is blocking the obvious. Hps is good, it got many people what they needed and still does today, notbody is disputing that. But, it's like i5 and i7 processors.. one still works almost as good as the next but the next is prepared for.. the next. Pay cheap for the past or pay more for the future, light tech is no different bar some pit falls you are warranted to point out. Cmh and cob are not pit falls.

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The OP isn't looking for the best money can buy though, he says over and over he is short on money and simply cant cool his light without AC and thus has a large power bill. He wants to buy a old tech led using almost the exact same number of watts. Did you look at the led he wants? It's over 5 years old. I'm not hating on LEDs outright, I even recommended quantum board for fucks sake. And I've said over and over cooling a hps is not hard, it just takes learning how to do, and as soon as you do it's very simple. I've even said how to do it a few times I believe. Fans. Moving air. Using ducted hoods.
Since you dont seem to have read much of what's been written I dont get why your even trying to talk about hps in this thread.
They op is trying to SAVE MONEY. Let's help him actually do that.

Flowki said:

I've seen ignorant governments fuck up country's for century's.. yet you think you've got the future figured because you've had a decade of ''success'' with hps?. Vhs and dvd's.

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Make sure you also read my comment above this one... but jesus christ man your failure to understand is amazing.. you have a agenda to push LEDs it seems like cuz your missing where I said in like the 2nd post of this thread that only the current gen LEDs are any good such as the quantum boards. For fuck sake this is exactly why I doubt your ability to understand. You dont read shit and you make a comment that doesn't represent the topic.

So last winter I switched from 1000 w HPS to DIY led's in an effort to calm down the electric bill. Much like the OP.
I did some homework and settled on a strip build using LED gardeners handy strip calculator tool to figure out the math.
RIU wont let me link, but if you search for it, easy to find.
Using 18 gauge solid core wire, it was almost all plug and play to assemble. I soldered 1 connection but you could use a plastic twisty connector. You do NOT need to be an electrician.
Using a kill o watt meter, the first light I built pulls 375 from the walls and the flower seems no different than when I had the 1000w HPS. I liked it so much I built a second light with max efficiency in mind for veg. That ones pulling less than 200 IIRC.
The first light was just over $300 between all the strips, driver and bits to make a frame. The second one was a good deal cheaper as I was able to recycle an old fixture.
I'm very happy with them, the elec bill paid for them in months, and it stays a lot cooler. Only big issue I had was humidity being up from no ac so now I have a little dehumidifier that seems to be keeping up.
There's a great thread here on RIU in the lighting section about DIY led's, maybe have a look in there as the tech might have gotten better since I built mine. Have not been keeping up as I'm happy with my current setup.

INF Flux said:

So last winter I switched from 1000 w HPS to DIY led's in an effort to calm down the electric bill. Much like the OP.
I did some homework and settled on a strip build using LED gardeners handy strip calculator tool to figure out the math.
RIU wont let me link, but if you search for it, easy to find.
Using 18 gauge solid core wire, it was almost all plug and play to assemble. I soldered 1 connection but you could use a plastic twisty connector. You do NOT need to be an electrician.
Using a kill o watt meter, the first light I built pulls 375 from the walls and the flower seems no different than when I had the 1000w HPS. I liked it so much I built a second light with max efficiency in mind for veg. That ones pulling less than 200 IIRC.
The first light was just over $300 between all the strips, driver and bits to make a frame. The second one was a good deal cheaper as I was able to recycle an old fixture.
I'm very happy with them, the elec bill paid for them in months, and it stays a lot cooler. Only big issue I had was humidity being up from no ac so now I have a little dehumidifier that seems to be keeping up.
There's a great thread here on RIU in the lighting section about DIY led's, maybe have a look in there as the tech might have gotten better since I built mine. Have not been keeping up as I'm happy with my current setup.

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I did the same with the Eb strips, built two two by four foot light fixtures each with 6 strips of 96 diodes each.
Get way better coverage and heat is never an issue with them.
Mine cost me about $500 Canadian I think.

INF Flux said:

So last winter I switched from 1000 w HPS to DIY led's in an effort to calm down the electric bill. Much like the OP.
I did some homework and settled on a strip build using LED gardeners handy strip calculator tool to figure out the math.
RIU wont let me link, but if you search for it, easy to find.
Using 18 gauge solid core wire, it was almost all plug and play to assemble. I soldered 1 connection but you could use a plastic twisty connector. You do NOT need to be an electrician.
Using a kill o watt meter, the first light I built pulls 375 from the walls and the flower seems no different than when I had the 1000w HPS. I liked it so much I built a second light with max efficiency in mind for veg. That ones pulling less than 200 IIRC.
The first light was just over $300 between all the strips, driver and bits to make a frame. The second one was a good deal cheaper as I was able to recycle an old fixture.
I'm very happy with them, the elec bill paid for them in months, and it stays a lot cooler. Only big issue I had was humidity being up from no ac so now I have a little dehumidifier that seems to be keeping up.
There's a great thread here on RIU in the lighting section about DIY led's, maybe have a look in there as the tech might have gotten better since I built mine. Have not been keeping up as I'm happy with my current setup.

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Are you going to post any pics?

Best I have, kinda old, a lots changed in there since then.

CD, that sounds very similar to what I did, except I went a bit crazier with the strip count in the interest of it being efficient. Watched to many Growmau5 and greengenes videos and then found the thread here.

unrelated to light, but proof being in the pudding and all that

INF Flux said:

Best I have, kinda old, a lots changed in there since then.

CD, that sounds very similar to what I did, except I went a bit crazier with the strip count in the interest of it being efficient. Watched to many Growmau5 and greengenes videos and then found the thread here.

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Dude... wtf?

Flowki said:

It's not about the rest of this site, just the OP and now us, 4 people. Stop using this like a pawn in the house of commons.

If you can't see that hps is falling behind then you are blinded by invested ego or what ever is blocking the obvious. Hps is good, it got many people what they needed and still does today, notbody is disputing that. But, it's like i5 and i7 processors.. one still works almost as good as the next but the next is prepared for.. the next. Pay cheap for the past or pay more for the future, light tech is no different bar some pit falls you are warranted to point out. Cmh and cob are not pit falls.

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led users use this site any which way so therefore i am not upsetting the balance.

If leds are that great then why has the UK pulled out of them, every hydro shop here thats good discontinued them and said they might look again one day when they stop bullshitting us all, this disclaimer written on three of the biggest hydro stores here.

Again its simply your word and i am always waiting for those that can actually delve deeper into the science not shut up shop and leave it at a lot of confusion.

It can go on until you realise that its nothing really to do with hps but simply the bs claims the led users have made all over this site, youd think they would keep that crap to their sub forum...

the truth is, 95% of the stuff on the market is shit.