Switching to LED from HPS

Discussion in 'General Marijuana Growing' started by JAMO_Grow, Jun 27, 2018.

  1.  
    JAMO_Grow

    JAMO_Grow Member

    Hello, I have been running a 600 HPS but the electricity bill is becoming way to expensive.
    I am aiming for a veg tent and a flowering tent however the LED light I have available in my country is the Apollo 8 (290w), so what I was considering was buying two but having one in each tent but how many plants (Normally do a 2 month veg with the HPS) can the light support with a topping training technique?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  2.  
    growingforfun

    growingforfun Well-Known Member

    The 600 watt hps is too expensive so your going to go BUY 580 watt worth of led? You'll save 20 watts and have another upfront cost.

    Have you worked out the math for what it costs to run by looking up what you pay per kwh? A 600w hps should be pretty easy to keep cool just running it at night so you shouldn't be needing a AC...
     
  3.  
    growingforfun

    growingforfun Well-Known Member

    It looks like this is a REALLY OLD style led. Those don't work very well. If your going the led route you almost have to buy the most recent model, right now the quantum boards are seen as worthwhile.. for me there's no reason to leave hps, best value imo.
     
  4.  
    coreywebster

    coreywebster Well-Known Member

    If its wattage your wanting to save then look at LEDgardeners strip builds.
    You would probably want 400-450w so only saving a quarter. But it will cost you a bit, if you google the above the costings for all his builds and list of everything needed are on his site.

    Cheap blurple lights are not better than HPS and you wont really save anything on electricity by going down that road unless you sacrifice grow area and yield.

    As far as how many plants those lights can support, should cover 2x3ft each based on about 50w per square foot rule
     
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  5.  
    Kingrow1

    Kingrow1 Well-Known Member

    At what point does your kilowat hourly rate become too exspensive for 7.2 of them a night? Im paying like £1.60 for my entire setup veg fans and lights a day, if it yeilds an oz a week at lowest i need to sell 1.3grams approx a week to pay for it and the other 26 and a joints worth is all profit.
     
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  6.  
    JAMO_Grow

    JAMO_Grow Member

    Yeah my country has electricity problems that result in higher prices and the temps are high so it is hard to cool the light.But thanks for the feed back.
     
  7.  
    growingforfun

    growingforfun Well-Known Member

    If you cant keep a 600 watt light cool by running it at night, and 600 watts is too expensive to run, then this may be a hobby you should avoid, I really don't see a route that's going to be worthwhile.... like... what are your energy costs per KWH?
     
  8.  
    growingforfun

    growingforfun Well-Known Member

    I've learned a lot of people literally have no idea how electricity is billed... if you don't know what your paying per Kilowatt hour then your not ready to grow...
     
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  9.  
    JAMO_Grow

    JAMO_Grow Member

    Yeah ill check it out.Thank you for the help.
     
    coreywebster likes this.
  10.  
    JAMO_Grow

    JAMO_Grow Member

    I understand how electricity is billed yes...I stated that it was to expensive to run the 600w HPS in my situation .Yes HPS is great and has served me well in my grows however I was wondering whether the Apollo 8 LED would be of any use as it is the easiest to acquire (and does not need to be cooled by an AC during the summer months) and how many plants it could support through a 2month veg process with a topping training technique (I hear alot of people talking about the poor light penetration of LEDs to that of the lower canopy of the trees.).
    Since this post I have learned that alot of people have no idea how to read and formulate an answer with relevance to the actual question asked...
     
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  11.  
    HydoDan

    HydoDan Well-Known Member

    The Apollo light you reference is old inefficient technology and should not be considered..
    It will produce the same heat and possibly less finished product.. 315 cmh maybe?
     
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  12.  
    JAMO_Grow

    JAMO_Grow Member

    Thanks for the feedback.
     
    HydoDan likes this.
  13.  
    JAMO_Grow

    JAMO_Grow Member

    Alright cmh sounds amazing!
     
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  14.  
    HydoDan

    HydoDan Well-Known Member

    I have personally never used cmh but I pay attention to what's going on and have seen great results from them.. Figured I'd throw it out there as an option..
     
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  15.  
    JAMO_Grow

    JAMO_Grow Member

    Im glad you did thanks
     
    HydoDan likes this.
  16.  
    Johnny Lawrence

    Johnny Lawrence Well-Known Member


    Ummm, in your first post, you mentioned getting 2 of these lights(580 watts) to replace a 600 watt light because of electricity cost. I, along with others, don't get this reasoning. You never mentioned room/tent size either. Perhaps you need to formulate your OP a bit better.

    Also, like mentioned, this is an outdated light that will probably perform about half as well as your 600.

    If seasonal heat is an issue, get a lower(than your 600) watt LED and only run it during the warmer months. Expect reduced harvests during this time.
     
    growingforfun likes this.
  17.  
    growingforfun

    growingforfun Well-Known Member

    Then since you have issues reading maybe you should read my replies again because all the information is there.
     
  18.  
    growingforfun

    growingforfun Well-Known Member

    I said the leds you linked at trash, suggested better leds, explained running the HPS at night so it didn't need cool, and tried to help you understand running costs vs initial investment. So yes... I believe the reading issues are on your end my dude.
     
  19.  
    Flowki

    Flowki Well-Known Member

    Yeah some pretty negative ''help'' around here.

    A 315 is similar to 500w of hps. W for W it seems like you will lose out but likely won't.

    Firstly the spectrum on the 315 is better for the plants and although it will give 100W less yield over 600hps the quality will be far better.

    Second is heat management. Although 315's efficiency puts out comparable 500W.. they don't run that hot so will save on cooling. The more important point is temp management. It will be easier to keep 315 in the right temp zone, the plants will produce more yield and quality than using a 600hps with temps too high. Regardless of what you plan to do with the end product higher quality smoke will always get priority. With that said a well grown shit strain is still a shit strain, contrary to popular belief it is possible to polish shit ;p.

    The 315 bulbs are not cheap, If you can, get a blue and a red. Use the blue strictly for veg and red for flower. Some people would suggest using the blue for 2 weeks into veg as well but given the longer prior veg time hours the blue bulb will be doing too much of the work and degrade faster. This will eventually hurt yield in the long run since the bulb will be doing a worse job at vegging/growing roots. You should replace both bulbs once a year, this is a happy medium between long term quality and over heads.

    Cobs and led's are good but they come with pro's and cons. Although W for W they are the same as a 600hps in terms of heat (not technically true) the cobs and leds send the heat up into the air and into your outake. Because of that your canopy temps will drop under cob vs hps.. however you can run your canopy temps a little higher with cobs anyway, around 80-85 fine. The downside with cobs comes in colder months, the canopy/root temps will drop too low and yield will suffer a lot, a damn lot. So then you need to supplement heating directly countering any savings you made in the summer months on cooling. Regardless of time of year it's always better to run lights over as much of the night time as possible. It gives plants the best chance at staying cool during summer and warm during winter.

    The way to hold onto most of those savings is to use a thermal fan cut off unit. A basic on/off one costs about 30-$50 and will cut off the out/intake when temps get too low. You still may need to supplement some heat even with the fans off but it will save a fair amount. All you need to be aware of is that the heating is enough to kick the fans on about once every 30 min to an hour, they will only stay on for about 5 min then cut off again as temp drops to your limit (70f root zone). This way you keep replacing co2. You may ofc lose a little yield if co2 levels are not keeping up but this should be a choice of responsibility. The alternative is continually blowing heating out to waste, for your size setup that would average about 2 to 300W waste 24/7. When the fans are off you will also see some condensing, having a de-huey is a must. It does however give off a fair bit of heat in operation so although it's costing W to maintain RH it is also heating the room. Still, it's going to run at a loss.. just far less than blowing out hot air 24/7.

    Quality, yield and running costs, Cobs and cmh W for W are about even if you consider such annual details above, imo. Hps should be walked passed unless on a budget.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
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  20.  
    growingforfun

    growingforfun Well-Known Member

    Honest help, tried being clear to help him understand what he's doing wont help his goal.

    And he clearly IS ON A BUDGET he said that several times. Hps can grow really well. He should be able to get dang near a lb with it. And if he learned how to use it properly he wouldn't have any issues cooling it with a couple fans instead of an AC.

    I asked him 2 times what he is paying per kilowatt hour and he wont answer, so likely doesn't know. And that goes right along with what I also said above. If you don't know what your paying per kwh you don't know how much if any measurable amount by cutting out 10% watts. And how long it will take to make a difference if you 400$ on a new fixture.
     

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