Should the US shed blood for Ukraine

Rottedroots said:

Ideally Russia will invade Ukraine and spend the next 20 years trying to suppress the people.

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Ideally, you'll be fucked by your own soullessness

Rottedroots said:

Ideally Russia will invade Ukraine and spend the next 20 years trying to suppress the people. They will never win decisively but it would sure be a drain on their already suffering lower classes and the economy. They just don't have the funds to throw a way like we did in Afghanistan.

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i don't have anything against anyone because of the country they were born in...i try to judge people by their behavior. i don't see it as an ideal condition to make the lower classes who have no say in any kind of policy suffer because their leaders make poor decisions.
and...i think they could suppress the people pretty well with a little effort. once they control the territory, they control the distribution of food, fuel, medical care, the basic necessities of life. with a good propaganda network in place, they'll have a relatively peaceful occupation...

Fogdog said:

Kazakhstan unrest: 'If you protest again, we'll kill you'

Activists in Kazakhstan say they are being arrested and beaten as police crack down after unrest.

www.bbc.com

This is why Ukraine will not accept Russian hegemony. They don't have to. Putin won't invade.

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Ya, no one reads the news. Putin has made it clear - the only reason he has any involvement is to protect Russian citizens. We didn't even do that for Americans in Afghanistan. Let's bite the tongue instead of saying War cause let's face it we all loose. Sanctions only rob us as citizens and do nothing to them. Not a working plan either. Let's let Ukraine decide for themselves and maybe everyone will coexist. Has any explored that theory yet. Ya, Woodrow Wilson thought of it way back when did but did any one hear him?

mooray said:

Russia is welcome to use sanctions and whatever other political means to pressure Ukraine from joining, but this method should not be tolerated.

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What method?

It's insane how the US keeps confidently repeating that Russia will invade Ukraine. But they will not, as they don't need to, nor do they want to attack the country. American rhetorics suggest they desperately want Russia to attack Ukr

smokin away said:

Ya, no one reads the news. Putin has made it clear - the only reason he has any involvement is to protect Russian citizens. We didn't even do that for Americans in Afghanistan. Let's bite the tongue instead of saying War cause let's face it we all loose. Sanctions only rob us as citizens and do nothing to them. Not a working plan either. Let's let Ukraine decide for themselves and maybe everyone will coexist. Has any explored that theory yet. Ya, Woodrow Wilson thought of it way back when did but did any one hear him?

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What is it that Ukraine should decide for itself?

Fogdog said:

The funny thing about that. His many violations of the Presidential Records Act is most likely to be the crime that will take him out as a potential presidential candidate.

That said, his childish plugging up of the toilet caused minor damage compared to what Putin's money launderer did to our democracy.

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At this point in time,ANYTHING that that derails him as a viable player in politics is fine w/me

Fogdog said:

CC,

I wasn't competing, I was adding to the discussion. We, in the US want to believe everybody else are like us. At some human level that's true. But, governments are very different animals and some are not even from a related species. Not from what I've managed to glean from it all.

Your moral code is strong but some places in this world, they aren't ready for it.

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Cool, just meant I don't possess worldly experience travelling to foreign lands that you have

Thanks for the compliment bro,I have a ego like anyone else but I strive to be fair and put myself in the shoes of others,there does come a time when compromise is not possible,some things are plainly wrong and some people are plainly bad and action is required,but a large % of misunderstandings can be diffused simply by placing ourselves in the shoes of others and in our country right now I think a lot of people would benefit from trying on some different shoes.

I'll admit to a bit of sarcasm which surprisingly Nappy missed because he is generally more intuitive that that. I'm definitely not supporting an invasion, I was tongue in cheek pointing out how both the Russians and the US failed with the same policy lasting 20 years with zero effect other than making the Afghans a nation of staving people willing to sell their daughters for cooking oil and rice. The same suffering is waiting in the Ukraine. How many people will the Muslim, Christians, Armenians kill.
I think I feel that ukrainians are best judge of whether or not Putin will invade the Ukraine.
It's interesting how many people actively support any US involvement. I know we the USA would under no circumstances allow nuclear weapons in our neighbor Cuban and the Russians simply want a barrier between NATO and Russia. Are we interested in the Ukraine or helping out the people. Fuck NO

smokin away said:

Ya, no one reads the news. Putin has made it clear - the only reason he has any involvement is to protect Russian citizens. We didn't even do that for Americans in Afghanistan. Let's bite the tongue instead of saying War cause let's face it we all loose. Sanctions only rob us as citizens and do nothing to them. Not a working plan either. Let's let Ukraine decide for themselves and maybe everyone will coexist. Has any explored that theory yet. Ya, Woodrow Wilson thought of it way back when did but did any one hear him?

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it's either sanctions or war, pick one. we either go in and fight them on the ground, lose a lot of men, but maybe end their threat to freedom once and for all...or we cripple them financially, so they cannot afford to do this again till pootin has been dead and in the ground for ten years...
sanctions do not rob us of anything, they rob thieves of their ill gotten gains.
Ukraine has decided for itself that they don't want to be russian citizens, and want to remain free...if a few of them would be happier under pootin's thumb, let them move to russia, and leave the free country of Ukraine the fuck alone
and actually, Wilson advocated the right for national self determination in the Balkans...and fought to form the league of nations, which essentially became NATO...

djumbir said:

What method?

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do you not read the news? INVASION....

djumbir said:

It's insane how the US keeps confidently repeating that Russia will invade Ukraine. But they will not, as they don't need to, nor do they want to attack the country. American rhetorics suggest they desperately want Russia to attack Ukr

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what would you call moving 100,000 military personnel to the border of a neighboring free state that you have already declared you want to claim as your own...that's not fucking provocative at all, countries do that every day, so that makes America a bunch of alarmist....

Roger A. Shrubber said:

do you not read the news? INVASION....

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Not gonna happen

djumbir said:

It's insane how the US keeps confidently repeating that Russia will invade Ukraine. But they will not, as they don't need to, nor do they want to attack the country. American rhetorics suggest they desperately want Russia to attack Ukr

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it's not us.

Putin is acting out and needs attention- will someone please give him attention? he's the new orange man. he will not invade..but he will run up to the border very fast. wow.

serious question: why does Media want to push us into a war? INVASION IMMINENT!!!

it's not us.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

it's either sanctions or war, pick one. we either go in and fight them on the ground, lose a lot of men, but maybe end their threat to freedom once and for all...or we cripple them financially, so they cannot afford to do this again till pootin has been dead and in the ground for ten years...
sanctions do not rob us of anything, they rob thieves of their ill gotten gains.
Ukraine has decided for itself that they don't want to be russian citizens, and want to remain free...if a few of them would be happier under pootin's thumb, let them move to russia, and leave the free country of Ukraine the fuck alone
and actually, Wilson advocated the right for national self determination in the Balkans...and fought to form the league of nations, which essentially became NATO...

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The most naive thing is to believe that America, or any other superpower has humanitarian motives for intervening in any dispute. They are all solely driven by profit and influence, and couldn't care less about democracy or human rights. It's interest above all.
I can smell polarizing tone in your post (good 'mericans / evil Ruskies), which tells me you are either a teenager or deeply (hopefully not irreversibly) drenched in American indoctrination.

djumbir said:

Not gonna happen

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i hope you're right, but i trust pootin's word...well, i can't think of anything small enough to compare to how much i trust pootin'.

djumbir said:

The most naive thing is to believe that America, or any other superpower has humanitarian motives for intervening in any dispute. They are all solely driven by profit and influence, and couldn't care less about democracy or human rights. It's interest above all.
I can smell polarizing tone in your post (good 'mericans / evil Ruskies), which tells me you are either a teenager or deeply (hopefully not irreversibly) drenched in American indoctrination.

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The most naive thing is to believe that America, or any other superpower has humanitarian motives for intervening in any dispute
not even close to the point, that's distraction
they are all solely driven by profit and influence, and couldn't care less about democracy or human rights. It's interest above all.
they who? Americans in general don't have a lot of time to worry about world politics, until it's shoved into their face and they cannot ignore it, like the people of most nations...if you're refering to American politicians, isn't Biden saying over and over again that we aren't going to start a war with russia, and isn't he trying to get Americans in Ukraine to leave, to avoid any conflict?....
can smell polarizing tone in your post (good 'mericans / evil Ruskies), which tells me you are either a teenager or deeply (hopefully not irreversibly) drenched in American indoctrination.
so you can smell my tone? then tell me what contempt and sadness smells like...you don't know fuck all. America has a lot to atone for, and so does russia, and almost every other country on the planet, name one with no scandals to hide, and i'll kiss your ass for each one...and i'm 56, and have seen the likes of you come and blow away in the wind many times

djumbir said:

The most naive thing is to believe that America, or any other superpower has humanitarian motives for intervening in any dispute. They are all solely driven by profit and influence, and couldn't care less about democracy or human rights. It's interest above all.
I can smell polarizing tone in your post (good 'mericans / evil Ruskies), which tells me you are either a teenager or deeply (hopefully not irreversibly) drenched in American indoctrination.

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then fucking leave because i can smell Borscht

Roger A. Shrubber said:

they who? Americans in general don't have a lot of time to worry about world politics, until it's shoved into their face and they cannot ignore it, like the people of most nations...if you're refering to American politicians, isn't Biden saying over and over again that we aren't going to start a war with russia, and isn't he trying to get Americans in Ukraine to leave, to avoid any conflict?....

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LOL, they're ever-present, constantly sticking their nose everywhere. And ofc I'm referring to politicians. I'm not defending Ruskies or taking sides, they're all imperialist evil, but even the military bases placement tells us that Russia has more right to feel threatened by the US, as their bases abroad are basically situated in bordering countries, mostly in Belarus and Kazakhstan, whereas Americans are getting real close to Russia, which again is strategically legitimate. Again, don't worry, the war will not happen, there will be no further escalations