Roto-Grow Journal

Just wanted to say excellent journal, thank you for posting this. I had a couple questions about your ppm readings.

1. How are you able to tell if the plants are absorbing the mix? Seeing that rockwool is so absorbent wont it take the solution up regardless and then it will be up to the plant to take it from that? I guess what I am asking is if the ppm's rise after a water cycle is that an indication there is a lot of evaporation or plants not uptaking the nutrients. I just wouldn't think you would be able to tell if the plants were taking in the nutrients because the rockwool absorbs so quickly. Curious about your thoughts on that.

2. Did you ever implement the automatic top off? Would you still recommend adding this? I just wonder if you would have to constantly adjust your nutrient ppms or would it balance out with evaporation?

aficionado said:

Notes:
Week 8 - beginning of Week 6 in flowering (May 14 - May 21) notes

PPM readings remain within 10% of original value throughout the week, indicating that water evaporation is not substantially altering concentration of ions from the nutrient salts in the reservoir. Also providing a strong indication that plant absorption of reservoir mix is increasing. No fresh water was added as dilution was not required.

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TheIron said:

Just wanted to say excellent journal, thank you for posting this. I had a couple questions about your ppm readings.

1. How are you able to tell if the plants are absorbing the mix? Seeing that rockwool is so absorbent wont it take the solution up regardless and then it will be up to the plant to take it from that? I guess what I am asking is if the ppm's rise after a water cycle is that an indication there is a lot of evaporation or plants not uptaking the nutrients. I just wouldn't think you would be able to tell if the plants were taking in the nutrients because the rockwool absorbs so quickly. Curious about your thoughts on that.

2. Did you ever implement the automatic top off? Would you still recommend adding this? I just wonder if you would have to constantly adjust your nutrient ppms or would it balance out with evaporation?

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Great questions!
1. I extrapolated that the plants were absorbing the nutrients by one, because they were growing rapidly, and two, the ppms in the reservoir, although climbing throughout the week, stayed within 10% of the original (and target) readings. The grow cubes would absorb the nutrients as well, but because this is not a chemical reaction, the cubes would stop absorbing the nutrients after equilibrium was achieved between the concentration of ions in the cube, and those present in the reservoir water. If this was not the case, and if the cubes continued to absorb additional ions throughout the grow, then the plants would continually be exposed to increased concentration of nutrients (salts), including the 'flushing' period - which would not make them very effective as grow mediums given this undesirable salt retention quality. That being said, I have not attempted to test the PPM present directly at the cubes to validate this assumption.

If the PPM readings continued to increase throughout the week, then I would deduce, based on the logic above, that the rate of evaporation in the grow room was higher than the rate of absorption by the plants. I am anticipating this trend will not be the case in these last few weeks given the plants biology where plant mass and rate of growth is significantly reduced as it enters its final stages of life. (less mass and active growth = less absorption of nutrients)

2. I did not implement the top-off due to the PPM readings. If the PPMs were to increase throughout the week, I would have needed to lower the concentrations through top off water. So far, that has not been the case. I also believe that strain and phenotype play important roles in balancing the PPMs throughout the grow, where some specimens absorb the salts much more readily than others. I also feel there is a direct correlation between overall mass (total) and PPM levels.

Hope this was what you were looking for. If not, let me know and I can expand further.

HAMandCHEEZ4life said:

sorry. i was gonna read through this thread tonight. didn't have time earlier. i'm interested in the rotogrow.

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No worries. Hope I did not come across as a dick - just trying to stay efficient.

Thank you!

aficionado i have the roto 312. i got it used. i was told im gonna need a chiller in my rez and u stated u had a heater ? could ya help me pls im a long time soil grower trying hydroponics.

mmd604 said:

aficionado i have the roto 312. i got it used. i was told im gonna need a chiller in my rez and u stated u had a heater ? could ya help me pls im a long time soil grower trying hydroponics.

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Welcome to the club.

I have not seen the need for cooling the reservoir. In fact just the opposite, with ambient controlled so that it never reaches over 85, and a concrete slab foundation, I have to heat the water to reach the 74-78 range.

If you are having to cool things down, I would recommend a drop in chiller (versus inline) connected to a temperature controller. You simply drop the coil into the tank and voila - chilled water! I use these extensively for my marine life tanks, where there are active intense MH lighting that heat the saltwater directly to unhealthy levels.

I ended up removing a small bud from the sample that was harvested a couple days ago and letting it dry outside the rest of the plant. It was obviously not cured, but my curiosity got the best of me and last night my back was acting up again.

First sample review:

1) Looks - Dried it looks even more impressive than wet. Very high concentration of trichomes, and although the bud was a lot smaller than I am used to seeing, each bud had more than enough to fill a bowl.

2) Smell - Since it was not cured, it had not had time to really bring out its smell. Understandably it smelled rather green but definitely had obvious signs of potent resin. Cured, this should be exceptional.

3) Usability - The smaller bud was very compact, and fit the bowl nicely. All leaf matter had already been removed, so this was nearly pure sinsimilla.

4) Burn - It was not completely dried or cured, so a little wet still, but burned with ease and evenly. No crackling or flare-ups. Bud burned evenly and resulted in white ash - all great signs.

5) Taste - I was expecting the worse - hydro, green, wet, uncured, and pulled early. That was not to be the case. The taste was incredibly smooth and was cool to the lungs. Aftertaste left you with a hint of savory fruit, almost sweet on your tongue. I was so surprised by the taste and the fact I have smoked much harsher stuff that was fully cured, I thought for a second that I had completely failed at growing this and it was not even usable as medicine. It was like almost using a vaporizer. That was until...

6) Effect - It did not hit you like a brick wall two seconds later. The effects came on over about 2-3 mins and quickly picked up pace for the next 15 mins until at its zenith, I was experiencing little to no pain, a pleasant and mild euphoria, and just an overall peace. That lead to mild psychedelic and heightened sensory input, but nothing too over the top. Overall, a more "head" high (likely due to the immaturity of the plant when it was harvested), and a very pleasant feeling all around. Very strong, comes on a little slower, but lasts for hours. Some constricting of the nasal cavity was experienced, but I am expecting that it is due to the lack of curing. I mistakenly left some fried chicken in the refrigerator from last night's dinner - yeah, its gone and tasted 10x better cold after medicating.

All in all - very strong, very dense, great smell and taste. Great effects, with a long lasting and slow, even burn. I'd say preliminarily, we have a success that will only get better the more she ages and is cured properly. Definitely a bit green, but you would not have been able to tell by taste alone. Soon, I will have some outside perspective to validate my experience and will post back on what they say.

Hey all -

So to help my decide whether or not to trim the fan leaves, I took one of the more prominent strains that has done rather well in this setup, and I trimmed off the primary fan leaves to see what was underneath (the one in the center of the three plant pic). I was duly impressed with what I saw, so here it is for your viewing enjoyment.

There are literally buds growing on top of buds

Now imagine - 240 of these going at the same time - all automated, and using 2000 watts of lighting. Starting to see the benefit in these types of non traditional grows? Yeah - me too.

P.S. - Note the coloration starting to appear in this strain? Pretty nifty, eh?

aficionado said:

Hey all -

So to help my decide whether or not to trim the fan leaves, I took one of the more prominent strains that has done rather well in this setup, and I trimmed off the primary fan leaves to see what was underneath (the one in the center of the three plant pic). I was duly impressed with what I saw, so here it is for your viewing enjoyment.

There are literally buds growing on top of buds

Now imagine - 240 of these going at the same time - all automated, and using 2000 watts of lighting. Starting to see the benefit in these types of non traditional grows? Yeah - me too.

P.S. - Note the coloration starting to appear in this strain? Pretty nifty, eh?

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That bud on bud growth you are seeing is called fox tailing.

Airwave said:

That bud on bud growth you are seeing is called fox tailing.

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I like to call it 'beautiful!'

Seriously though, I think the hormone additive I have opted to use in the last couple weeks of flowering is promoting this rather odd looking development. I am a little concerned that there may be uneven maturation with late stage bud develpoment, but it is too early to tell if that is indeed the case.

aficionado said:

Hey all -

So to help my decide whether or not to trim the fan leaves, I took one of the more prominent strains that has done rather well in this setup, and I trimmed off the primary fan leaves to see what was underneath (the one in the center of the three plant pic). I was duly impressed with what I saw, so here it is for your viewing enjoyment.

There are literally buds growing on top of buds

Now imagine - 240 of these going at the same time - all automated, and using 2000 watts of lighting. Starting to see the benefit in these types of non traditional grows? Yeah - me too.

P.S. - Note the coloration starting to appear in this strain? Pretty nifty, eh?

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is this from the roto?

sickstoner said:

is this from the roto?

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Yes - did you see that it was only a foot tall? This tray is of one of the strains I used for this round - one of the better producers.

Hi.. I would just like to introduce my self.. I am Jealous. thank-you..

ResidualFreedom said:

Hi.. I would just like to introduce my self.. I am Jealous. thank-you..

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Nice to have you aboard. They are beautiful, no? Glad to see you are enjoying seeing some of this as much as I am in growing it.

Stick around - finish line is right around the corner - should be fun.

After much consideration and observation, I have opted to clear out the remaining larger fan leaves on all specimens to promote coloration and advance the maturation process. This will be quite an undertaking given the sheer quantity of plants to work with, so I will post some updated pics this weekend of the effort. More to follow.

Just read pretty much all 16 pages, nice setup wish I had the location for one!

Can you list any problems you've had with the operation so far, including any problems you've had with the roto machine itself?
Of course, the proof is in the pudding, so we're all waiting for the final weight and quality.

aficionado said:

After much consideration and observation, I have opted to clear out the remaining larger fan leaves on all specimens to promote coloration and advance the maturation process. This will be quite an undertaking given the sheer quantity of plants to work with, so I will post some updated pics this weekend of the effort. More to follow.

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I have only personal anecdotal evidence that clearing the fans in the last 1-1/2 weeks of flower, seems to make the lower sections of the plant mature better.

As a man of science I am sure that your project could be used for more than one result. If you took the fans off only half of the circle and left the other half intact, a good controlled result could be used to answer this question once and for all.

I have seen some heated debates regarding this practice here on RUI and other forums. Personally I would love to see the benefit, or cost, be documented in this very controlled environment. What better controls than the same light, nutes, temps and overall conditions with the Roto-Gro?

Keep up the good fight bro, you are coming in on the finish line.

By the way, I like my smoke best fresh, and uncured, about 4-5 days from cut. So if I get to be on the judging panel that would be a good time to schedule. I won't even charge you or anything just let me know when and where.

kpw555 said:

I have only personal anecdotal evidence that clearing the fans in the last 1-1/2 weeks of flower, seems to make the lower sections of the plant mature better.

As a man of science I am sure that your project could be used for more than one result. If you took the fans off only half of the circle and left the other half intact, a good controlled result could be used to answer this question once and for all.

I have seen some heated debates regarding this practice here on RUI and other forums. Personally I would love to see the benefit, or cost, be documented in this very controlled environment. What better controls than the same light, nutes, temps and overall conditions with the Roto-Gro?

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Exactly! I will trim most of the plants, but leave at least two per strain untouched as the control group. In subsequent runs, I will isolate this as the test variable across different strains and see what the net effect trimming at various stages has on overall quality and output. (veg, early flowering, late flowering, and right before harvest). With all the experimentation I want to do - damn, might need a few more of these.

kpw555 said:

By the way, I like my smoke best fresh, and uncured, about 4-5 days from cut. So if I get to be on the judging panel that would be a good time to schedule. I won't even charge you or anything just let me know when and where.

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Ha! You have to love the byproduct of all this craziness - so much MJ! My fellow patient buddies are loving this.