Party leaders are not strategic geniuses, they just really like moderates, new research finds

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Through all of these contests, national party leaders have argued that their decision-making is not personal or ideological. They believe in the same progressive values as the grassroots activists, goes the argument, but more moderate candidates are needed to be able to win the general election and take the House back from Republicans

That argument was made most explicitly earlier this month in the New York Times, by Brookings senior fellow Elaine Kamarck, who endorsed the practice of political parties intervening in primary elections. Kamarck was responding to The Intercept’s coverage of House Democratic Whip Steny Hoyer attempting to push a candidate in Colorado out of a House race by appealing to party elites’ superior savvy (emphasis added):

Are party leaders always right? Of course not. But they are different from the activists who often dominate the party primaries because they are more concerned with electability than with ideological purity. Party leaders have the job of winning nationally; Democrats are painfully aware that not all congressional districts are Berkeley, Calif.

(where have we heard that before?)

Her contention, which mirrors conventional wisdom, is that party leaders — the loose network of campaign committees, consultants, elected officials, and key donors — are simply more strategic than activists, refusing to let ideology get in the way of their laser focus on winning elections.

That’s an assertion of fact, not opinion. And according to new political science research, it is incorrect.

A paper in this month’s edition of the peer-reviewed Legislative Studies Quarterly analyzes a decade’s worth of federal elections, finding that party organizations boost moderate candidates across the board, whether the general election is expected to be competitive or a long shot. In other words, party support for moderates does not appear to be strategic, but sincere.

“They’re not doing this to have a better shot at winning elections,” said the paper’s author Hans Hassell, assistant professor of politics at Cornell College in Iowa.

The evidence points more to the conclusion that party elites “have strong incentives to prefer loyalists who can be trusted to implement its preferred policies after the nomination,” Hassell writes.

The study not only breaks with other political science findings, but decades of rhetoric from party leaders. It’s obvious from the most casual survey of primary elections that parties support moderates, but the races that observers tend to watch closely are competitive contests in swing states, so it stands to reason that a moderate in such a district may indeed be the smarter strategic play. Indeed, in a series of high-profile battles with progressive activists, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee has consistently positioned itself as being pragmatic, willing to bend on its progressive principles if doing so can lead to victory.

Hassell’s work expanded the field of vision, looking at races in which the Democratic nominee is likely to cruise to victory. The full scope of the research indicates that party leaders are actually committed to elevating candidates with a narrow range of beliefs.

If party elites were merely strategic actors, the data would show higher support for moderate candidates in swing races, while not showing as much support in seats that were either safe or out of reach. That’s not the case.
In Hassell’s findings, parties consistently supported the more moderate primary candidate, regardless of the expected outcome of the general election. Even after excluding incumbents — which party committees almost always support — support for moderates holds. It’s also consistent regardless of party. And while this data set used Senate races, for his book Hassell also measured House races, finding the same result.

In Hassell’s findings, parties consistently supported the more moderate primary candidate, regardless of the expected outcome of the general election.

“Party elites are not systematically showing any preference for more moderate candidates in competitive districts,” Hassell writes. In fact, the pull for moderate candidates is stronger in noncompetitive districts.

“This shows that parties are not strategically moderating their preferences in attempts to win competitive districts.”

You should read the full article from the intercept
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
"The study not only breaks with other political science findings"

Yeah, so why don't other studies show similar findings? I'm glad "The Intercept" found a study that confirmed your bias.

I tried to access the original paper this biased article was based upon to find out what the researchers considered was the difference between "moderate" and "extreme" candidates. Didn't want to sign up for a subscription with Wiley Online do do so. Who in hell is Hans Hassell, assistant professor of politics at Cornell College in Iowa. Really, an assistant professor in Iowa. Where are all his accolades for this ground breaking work?

Given your history of quoting propaganda, I'd prefer a second and more well known source. Better yet, independent studies that confirm Hans Hassell's ground breaking work. You are a tool, Pad.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
"The study not only breaks with other political science findings"

Yeah, so why don't other studies show similar findings? I'm glad "The Intercept" found a study that confirmed your bias.

I tried to access the original paper this biased article was based upon to find out what the researchers considered was the difference between "moderate" and "extreme" candidates. Didn't want to sign up for a subscription with Wiley Online do do so. Who in hell is Hans Hassell, assistant professor of politics at Cornell College in Iowa. Really, an assistant professor in Iowa. Where are all his accolades for this ground breaking work?

Given your history of quoting propaganda, I'd prefer a second and more well known source. Better yet, independent studies that confirm Hans Hassell's ground breaking work. You are a tool, Pad.
Corroborating evidence has been posted here for months, you simply refuse to accept it, just like Republicans. The Democratic party supports moderate positions because that's what benefits their donors. They oppose actually progressive economic positions like adopting universal healthcare and raising the minimum wage to a living wage because their donors oppose it. They support moderate Democrats 100% of the time over actual progressive challengers. Democrats who will be kind to business interests and not rock the boat. They don't support progressives or progressive policies because they know if progressives win, they will be out a job. They would rather lose to Republicans like Trump than win with progressives.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
padawan is not a strategic genius, he just really likes "progressives".

and calling people fa***ts". and saying black people have a "herd like mentality". and saying more is expected of him because he is white. and asking if the sexual assault was "legitimate".
 

travisw

Well-Known Member
padawan is not a strategic genius, he just really likes "progressives".

and calling people fa***ts". and saying black people have a "herd like mentality". and saying more is expected of him because he is white. and asking if the sexual assault was "legitimate".
Still lives at home too.

Posted by
u/Padawanbater

1 month ago


Can I file a restraining order against my sisters "boyfriend"?

This is in California, Ventura County

Long story short, he's jobless, homeless, and utterly useless in every sense of the word. He's been unemployed for as long as I've known him (~5 years) and refuses to try to get a job. Any job he does happen to get he keeps for a week then quits. He has three kids, including a year old baby with my sister. He shows up to "take care of her" only when my sister has money he can sponge or if my family cooks dinner. Everyone in the family except my sister hates him.

He has assaulted me in the past, and he's caused multiple scenes at my house with my sister while drunk that required police presence to diffuse the situation, multiple times leading to an arrest.

My younger sister and I would like nothing more to do with him and my dad is a pushover when it comes to enforcing rules since my older sister is such an abhorrent human being. He'd rather deal with the minimal complaints from us than the giant, screaming to the top of her lungs complaints from her.

So since he won't do anything, I'm curious if we have any legal ground to file a restraining order against him to keep him away from the property. Any advice?

Thanks
 

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
"The study not only breaks with other political science findings"

Yeah, so why don't other studies show similar findings? I'm glad "The Intercept" found a study that confirmed your bias.

I tried to access the original paper this biased article was based upon to find out what the researchers considered was the difference between "moderate" and "extreme" candidates. Didn't want to sign up for a subscription with Wiley Online do do so. Who in hell is Hans Hassell, assistant professor of politics at Cornell College in Iowa. Really, an assistant professor in Iowa. Where are all his accolades for this ground breaking work?

Given your history of quoting propaganda, I'd prefer a second and more well known source. Better yet, independent studies that confirm Hans Hassell's ground breaking work. You are a tool, Pad.
His had Christmas colors.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Corroborating evidence has been posted here for months, you simply refuse to accept it, just like Republicans. The Democratic party supports moderate positions because that's what benefits their donors. They oppose actually progressive economic positions like adopting universal healthcare and raising the minimum wage to a living wage because their donors oppose it. They support moderate Democrats 100% of the time over actual progressive challengers. Democrats who will be kind to business interests and not rock the boat. They don't support progressives or progressive policies because they know if progressives win, they will be out a job. They would rather lose to Republicans like Trump than win with progressives.
I use the Congressional Record to tell me what Democratic Party leaders believe. Do you know why I believe Democratic Senators support reforming campaign finance laws? I don't just think it, I can point to the facts. Every Democratic Party Senator in 2014 voted for the repeal of Citizen's United. It's there in the record.

Do you know why I believe Democratic Party leadership supports universal access to healthcare? I don't just think it, I can point to facts. The Democratic Party's members of Congress stopped Republicans from shredding not only the ACA but Medicare, Medicaid and special allowances for children from low income families to have access to subsidized healthcare.

You? You cite a paper from an unknown Associate Professor who got his degree in 2012 and has reported "a study that breaks with other political science findings". Now, it's true that Enstein broke with other physicist's findings in his day, so maybe this guy is an Einstein, I don't know. All I know is that when I searched on google about him, his work was not supported anywhere. Not even debated anywhere. The report was published a year ago. Sounds fishy to me. Not denying it but not a believer either.

So, which are you going to trust? Trust the Congressional Record that does indeed demonstrate that Democrats vote for progressive bills or an unknown and wet behind the ears Associate Professor who has a contract to teach for a short while in Iowa?

It doesn't matter anyway, the primaries are almost over and we'll test the theory that Progessives have caused Democrats to lose their chance at winning the House by getting a few of their unelectable candidates onto the Democratic Party ticket in November. Or your theory that moderates can't win. Either way, stop telling me what I think. You have no idea.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Still lives at home too.

Posted by
u/Padawanbater

1 month ago


Can I file a restraining order against my sisters "boyfriend"?

This is in California, Ventura County

Long story short, he's jobless, homeless, and utterly useless in every sense of the word. He's been unemployed for as long as I've known him (~5 years) and refuses to try to get a job. Any job he does happen to get he keeps for a week then quits. He has three kids, including a year old baby with my sister. He shows up to "take care of her" only when my sister has money he can sponge or if my family cooks dinner. Everyone in the family except my sister hates him.

He has assaulted me in the past, and he's caused multiple scenes at my house with my sister while drunk that required police presence to diffuse the situation, multiple times leading to an arrest.

My younger sister and I would like nothing more to do with him and my dad is a pushover when it comes to enforcing rules since my older sister is such an abhorrent human being. He'd rather deal with the minimal complaints from us than the giant, screaming to the top of her lungs complaints from her.

So since he won't do anything, I'm curious if we have any legal ground to file a restraining order against him to keep him away from the property. Any advice?

Thanks
Should I tell him that most lawyers will give a free first consultation? He can even go to more than one if he isn't sure. I've done this before and found that I got very good advice. So good that when I left their office I knew what to do and didn't need to pay for additional counseling.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I use the Congressional Record to tell me what Democratic Party leaders believe. Do you know why I believe Democratic Senators support reforming campaign finance laws? I don't just think it, I can point to the facts. Every Democratic Party Senator in 2014 voted for the repeal of Citizen's United. It's there in the record.

Do you know why I believe Democratic Party leadership supports universal access to healthcare? I don't just think it, I can point to facts. The Democratic Party's members of Congress stopped Republicans from shredding not only the ACA but Medicare, Medicaid and special allowances for children from low income families to have access to subsidized healthcare.

You? You cite a paper from an unknown Associate Professor who got his degree in 2012 and has reported "a study that breaks with other political science findings". Now, it's true that Enstein broke with other physicist's findings in his day, so maybe this guy is an Einstein, I don't know. All I know is that when I searched on google about him, his work was not supported anywhere. Not even debated anywhere. The report was published a year ago. Sounds fishy to me. Not denying it but not a believer either.

So, which are you going to trust? Trust the Congressional Record that does indeed demonstrate that Democrats vote for progressive bills or an unknown and wet behind the ears Associate Professor who has a contract to teach for a short while in Iowa?

It doesn't matter anyway, the primaries are almost over and we'll test the theory that Progessives have caused Democrats to lose their chance at winning the House by getting a few of their unelectable candidates onto the Democratic Party ticket in November. Or your theory that moderates can't win. Either way, stop telling me what I think. You have no idea.
You can point to instances when the implementation of universal healthcare or the repeal of citizens united took place when it couldn't actually be passed. Congressional Democrats supported it specifically because they knew it couldn't be passed.

You cannot find any record of congressional democrats supporting the same positions when they had the opportunity to actually pass it.

They don't support it when it can be passed. They sell you lip service when they know it can't be passed..
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
You can point to instances when the implementation of universal healthcare or the repeal of citizens united took place when it couldn't actually be passed. Congressional Democrats supported it specifically because they knew it couldn't be passed.

You cannot find any record of congressional democrats supporting the same positions when they had the opportunity to actually pass it.

They don't support it when it can be passed. They sell you lip service when they know it can't be passed..
you ever gonna move out of mommy and stepdaddy's house?
 

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
"The study not only breaks with other political science findings"

Yeah, so why don't other studies show similar findings? I'm glad "The Intercept" found a study that confirmed your bias.

I tried to access the original paper this biased article was based upon to find out what the researchers considered was the difference between "moderate" and "extreme" candidates. Didn't want to sign up for a subscription with Wiley Online do do so. Who in hell is Hans Hassell, assistant professor of politics at Cornell College in Iowa. Really, an assistant professor in Iowa. Where are all his accolades for this ground breaking work?

Given your history of quoting propaganda, I'd prefer a second and more well known source. Better yet, independent studies that confirm Hans Hassell's ground breaking work. You are a tool, Pad.
If a website called fakenewsandstudies.com confirmed their bias, they would link to it. They cannot help it.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I predict... No response.
His argument sounded like that clip from The Princess Bride where the Sicilian trader argues with himself over which glass of wine contains the poison.

Something like:

If there were a chance that universal healthcare would pass, then the evil Establishment would prevent it coming to a vote. On the other hand, people might think that the evil Establishment would do this so they might write a bill that couldn't pass and planned to put it to a vote. But, that would be too obvious so they wrote a bill that they thought could pass but they were fooling everybody because they knew a key sponsor for the bill was about to be accused of molesting an aid thus discrediting the bill; So, which bill should I support?
 
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