opinions on chem gro 4-20-39 and other CHEAP DRY NUTES

Discussion in 'DWC/ Bubbleponics' started by Cold$moke, Jan 3, 2018.


    firsttimeARE Well-Known Member

    What's your thought on mixing stocks. I usually make 100:1 stocks with 100oz distilled water and use 1oz/gal. But with all these mix options I feel like I wouldn't be able to use them before they turn (usually 3-4 weeks for me before I notice baddies growing in it)
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    im4satori Well-Known Member

    try something different

    mix your veg like this 4:4:1 ratio

    2 grams jack (or slightly higher to achieve EC but in equal portion)
    2 grams calcium nitrate (or slightly higher to achieve EC but in equal portion)
    0.5 grams Epsom

    and set it at EC 1.4

    thatll lower the K in your mix a good bit and allow for the magnesium and calcium uptake to increase

    the twist might then go stop progression

    you really shouldn't need a full gram of Epsom salt per gallon.....
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    im4satori Well-Known Member

    if I see growth in my stock solution I just dump a bottle of h202 in it and skim it with a netted spoon thingy strainer
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    firsttimeARE Well-Known Member

    What you told me to use was the 2.5 mix 2 calcinit and 1 epsom
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    im4satori Well-Known Member

    that's fine
    that's the mix I use..but you said your getting leaf twist

    your not over feeding so that's ruled out.... your getting more than enough magnesium

    so my thought is perhaps the K is a little high... its a complete guess based on what I know about your nutrient ratios and I could be wrong

    the mix puts you in the ball park and the elements are all with in parameters that are close, each individual will want to make small tweaks to accommodate there specific plant and environmental needs

    someone with a room that runs real hot might do better with a wee bit more K

    if your source water has calcium it in that might adjust your formula marginally

    theres a balance of cations (cat- ions) between potassium, calcium and magnesium...................

    who knows maybe the twist is from being to close to the lights idk..but if you feel its nute related try the alternative mix that has slightly lower K and see if it solves it
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
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    rkymtnman Well-Known Member

    @im4satori you da man! gonna start reading the book once 2018 starts to settle down.
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    firsttimeARE Well-Known Member

    What book?

    Not sure what is causing it. Could lack of food cause it? Only thing I changed recently was the ratios. But the two plants I have in my other room are fine and getting same ratios except they are at 1.4EC

    My source water has like 16ppm Ca. And I thought this mix was close to the 4:2:1.

    I'll try increasing the feed and see if it sorts it out.
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    im4satori Well-Known Member

    ya that book is a mind full of over load lol
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    im4satori Well-Known Member

    its nice to have a bit of calcium in the source

    could be... if the others are good at 1.4 maybe that's it

    sounds logical to me

    but id have to look at a log of your reservoir changes to make

    typically or as a rule in hydro

    if the EC goes down and the ph goes up = feed more
    if the EC goes up (or stays flat) and or the ph doesn't climb = feed less

    if the EC drops real slow and the Ph climbs real slow = perfection

    but reservoir size also has a lot to do with how fast these changes occur so you got to get a feel for your set up over time
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    Cold$moke Well-Known Member

    Im still waiting till monday to hear back from hydro gardens to see if they have anything similar to the 5-11-26 ...

    All that said i like how quick the company responded.
    And their shipping prices are good with me :)

    I think im going to try a couple different formulas
    Hobby 10-8-22 for veg
    Strawberry 8-12-32 (also for my strawberrys :))
    And the 4-20-39 for bloom

    Plus cal nit, mag sul and mkp

    I also might grab a 5 lb of the jacks to try it as well . Cause you dont know till you try

    One of these will be my last nutrient for a while though after i run them :)

    Again appreciate all the input gents
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    im4satori Well-Known Member

    assuming the twist is nute related and not heat stress

    if your EC is dropping and your PH is climbing within your reservoir than id say yes
    raise the EC they want more food and thatll fix it

    if your EC is not dropping and your PH is not climbing (again assuming its nute related) id have to look at the K as a potential for lock out issues

    because your getting more than adequate proportions of calcium and magnesium
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    firsttimeARE Well-Known Member

    pH is rising 0.2 daily. I got a 42 gal rdwc for 6 plants.

    Res is about 2 weeks old. Not even.
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    im4satori Well-Known Member

    ya so maybe EC 1.4 might sound about right

    as long as your ph has got a little rise (before topping off) you can safely raise the EC

    if the Ph is flat it could be perfect or slightly too much ... so I prefer to see a slight rise

    that's a nice reservoir size for only 6 plants so 0.2 gives you room to raise it .... if your reservoir was half that size id say that's not too much of a rise but since your reservoir is ample its going to show the changes more slowly
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    Cold$moke Well-Known Member

    Orderd the chem gro
    4-20-39(for flower)
    Strawberry mix 8-12-32 (for veg)

    Cal nitrate
    Mag sulphate
    And mono potassium phosphate
    Will be here soon :)

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    just in case your don't know, but im sure you do

    magnesium sulfate is the same as Epsom salt that you can by at the grocery store or pharmacy real cheap and without shipping cost

    I like those

    real easy the way you have it using the strawberry for veg is perfect

    id mix it

    2 grams strawberry mix
    2 grams calcium Nite

    2 grams 420 mix
    2 grams calcium nite

    and dilute to desired EC/PPM

    the mkp booster you don't really need but if you want to boost P do it during the second half of flower

    id start at 0.25 grams per gallon and you can play with as much as up to 0.5 grams per gallon (which is basically the lucas formula)
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    im4satori Well-Known Member

    as for the Epsom salt.. I didn't fugure it in to the above listed formulas

    you will need it but I don't know how much mag is already in the strawberry mix or the 420 mix so I didn't list it in the recipes

    if you want to verify the % amounts listed I can suggest my opinion on the amount
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    Cold$moke Well-Known Member

    @im4satori thanks man, i am aware of the epsom salt being mag sulphate.

    I just didnt know if the stuff at the store was the same as they use so i went with it. :)

    Chem gro gives a decent feed chart but im sure it will need tweaking.

    I will try your suggestions for sure :)

    As far as the mpk is concerned i just got it to fill the flat rate box lol.

    As the first few runs i will use just the base formulas so i can get a good feel for them

    Then ill start adding the mkp in small doses .

    Ive always been a feed less but you can give them more kind of guy
    Instead of max ppms lol

    Look forward to bouncing ideas off of you
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    im4satori Well-Known Member

    yes, im also a fan of not over fertilizing and typically like to stay low on EC

    the amounts I gave you are likely around EC 1.3 im guessing just using the base nutes and Epsom

    the Epsom salt at the grocery store is the same thing just don't buy the kind with perfumes or fragrances
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    im4satori Well-Known Member

    I can get yara calcium nitrate at my local co-op for about $20 a bag

    and that also saves me on shipping so I get the Epsom and cal nite local
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    Cold$moke Well-Known Member

    Nice thanks.
    Yea ive never been much for maxing out feed

    Just takes longer to get rid if it at the end.

    Yes im a shameful flusher.

    But I like my weed to burn to a fine white ash and taste good to the end lol.
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