Oakland legalizing large scale grow ops

stonedmetalhead1 said:

The taste of the finished product from hydro will never compare to the taste of properly grow organic weed, I'm not saying hydro wont taste good just not the same. I compare marijuana to a fine wine and hydro will never compare to the all around quality of organics. It's not like compareing Coke and Pepsi, it's like comparing a Swisher to a Cuban.

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Well here's the thing about that. Properly grown organic bud does have the ability to provide a superior taste to hydro IF grown by a master grower. Hydro is superior in density and smell. Most people who grow organics are not master growers. Very few have mastered that science/art. Any idiot with internet access and a good nutrient feeding chart can grow A grade hydro. The first time I ever tried hydro it turned out outstanding. I had no skill at growing, I simply followed instructions. Also hydro is more profitable to grow + it's less work.

Because of how easy and profitable it is to grow top shelf hydro and how few people actually grow high quality organics, on the average hydro bud is better than organic bud. But yes, organic does have the potential to be better. It's just that the full potential is rarely reached.

stonedmetalhead1 said:

Once you form a corporation you end up with a board of directors that over time will change their vision for the company. No matter what intentions you start the company with, eventually the focal point will come down to the bottom line and your initial concepts will be pushed out for the "greater good" of the company by the board with or without you. It basically comes down to ethics which most Americans don't have. These corporations don't fully understand or care about the consequences of their actions.

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Nope. That's only true for publicly traded corporations. In a private corporation, the board of directors can be hand picked by the owners. Since there are no publicly traded shares, no one can buy influence. Your vision stays intact without being influenced by greedy investors.

Dan Kone said:

Well here's the thing about that. Properly grown organic bud does have the ability to provide a superior taste to hydro IF grown by a master grower. Hydro is superior in density and smell. Most people who grow organics are not master growers. Very few have mastered that science/art. Any idiot with internet access and a good nutrient feeding chart can grow A grade hydro. The first time I ever tried hydro it turned out outstanding. I had no skill at growing, I simply followed instructions. Also hydro is more profitable to grow + it's less work.

Because of how easy and profitable it is to grow top shelf hydro and how few people actually grow high quality organics, on the average hydro bud is better than organic bud. But yes, organic does have the potential to be better. It's just that the full potential is rarely reached.

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It's easier to grow organic than you think. That being said, Hydro out performs organics in speed of growth and yeild, that's it. Hydro is deffinately commercially vialble and I'm not saying it's complete dirt I'm just saying hydro is your average weed with properly grown organics being top shelf.

Nope. That's only true for publicly traded corporations. In a private corporation, the board of directors can be hand picked by the owners. Since there are no publicly traded shares, no one can buy influence. Your vision stays intact without being influenced by greedy investors.

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When that company starts making money, views will change. Greed is a mother fucker and if the company starts losing money people will do anything to maintain their lifestyles. I understand that only publicly traded company's get effected buy investors but say you build up a corporation. Somewhere down the road that corporation gets huge and is following your vision to a T. At some point after your gone that corporation is still around and bigger than ever. The people with the original vision aren't around and the corporation has built itself up enough to have major influence on the market, someone will take advantage and change the direction of the company. This could have major effects on marijuana as a whole. I'm talking long run not just the immediate future.

I think marijuana should be put on a pedestal like grapes for wine and laws should be enacted (not by the gov. but rather a board of peers looking to preserve this special plant) to maintain the diversity and quality of the herb. It should be governed by a national council and everyone that grows should have a say in what happens.

I think marijuana should be put on a pedastool like grapes for wine and laws should be inacted (not by the gov. but rather a board of peers looking to preserve this special plant) to maintain the diversity and quality of the herb. It should be governed by a national council and evewryone that grows should have a say in what happens.

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*pedastle
*enacted
*everyone

Not going to happen...

stonedmetalhead1 said:

It's easier to grow organic than you think. That being said, Hydro out performs organics in speed of growth and yeild, that's it. Hydro is deffinately commercially vialble and I'm not saying it's complete dirt I'm just saying hydro is your average weed with properly grown organics being top shelf.

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Yeah, you're probably right. Problem is most of the organics sold in the bay is just stuff from humboldt/mendo that's too shitty to sell up there. Combine that with the obvious increased profitability in growing hydro and now most talented commercial growers do hydro. Now people associate hydro with good buds and organics with schwagg.

stonedmetalhead1 said:

I think marijuana should be put on a pedastool like grapes for wine and laws should be inacted (not by the gov. but rather a board of peers looking to preserve this special plant) to maintain the diversity and quality of the herb. It should be governed by a national council and everyone that grows should have a say in what happens.

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Not a bad idea at all. If you ever run for president, you have my vote.

NLXSK1 said:

*pedastle
*enacted
*everyone

Not going to happen...

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It was like 4:00 in the morning when I posted that and I had just got up. I'm sorry I didn't check my grammar. It's only "not going to happen" if people don't do something about it and let corporations gain control of the most amazing plant on the face of the earth.

......... and it's PEDESTAL.

Dan Kone said:

Yeah, you're probably right. Problem is most of the organics sold in the bay is just stuff from humboldt/mendo that's too shitty to sell up there. Combine that with the obvious increased profitability in growing hydro and now most talented commercial growers do hydro. Now people associate hydro with good buds and organics with schwagg.

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Sure commercial growers are going to use hydro, it's the most cost effective way to grow and they could care less if it's top quality they just want money (people are greedy asshats). I grow 100% organic and I don't use nutes. I build my soil and use only water throughout the entire grow except for some sugars. It's easy to build a proper soil, I use Guano's, Bone Meal, Blood Meal, Epsom Salts, Powdered Humic Acid, Dolomite Lime, Azomite Trace Minerals, and Roots Soil as a base. All of this stuff is decently cheap and easy to use with a superior end product. I've experimented with about every grow method and proper organics is deffinately the way to go for headstash.

I'll put this up against hydro anyday. I might not yield as often as I would in hydro but the depth of flavors and the fullness of the smoke is incomparable. The potency of herb is determined by genetics so as long as the plant is grown to it's full potencial it doesn't matter how it was grown. For growing in soil I don't yeild horribly bad either, this crop yeilded me around 11 lbs. under 4000 watts without training the plants (I was looking for mothers this run so I let them grow naturally to see what they could do).

stonedmetalhead1 said:

Sure commercial growers are going to use hydro, it's the most cost effective way to grow and they could care less if it's top quality they just want money (people are greedy asshats). I grow 100% organic and I don't use nutes. I build my soil and use only water throughout the entire grow except for some sugars. It's easy to build a proper soil, I use Guano's, Bone Meal, Blood Meal, Epsom Salts, Powdered Humic Acid, Dolomite Lime, Azomite Trace Minerals, and Roots Soil as a base. All of this stuff is decently cheap and easy to use with a superior end product. I've experimented with about every grow method and proper organics is deffinately the way to go for headstash.

I'll put this up against hydro anyday. I might not yield as often as I would in hydro but the depth of flavors and the fullness of the smoke is incomparable. The potency of herb is determined by genetics so as long as the plant is grown to it's full potencial it doesn't matter how it was grown. For growing in soil I don't yeild horribly bad either, this crop yeilded me around 11 lbs. under 4000 watts without training the plants (I was looking for mothers this run so I let them grow naturally to see what they could do).

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Wow nice looking, can you share how you mix your soils. Sounds close to the high times artice i read in 2009.

http://hightimes.com/grow/subcool/5728

Yep I use Sub's recipe and it does wonders. I worked on a soil recipe for a couple years and never quite got it right. I tried Sub's soil mix and I was amazed.

stonedmetalhead1 said:

It's still going to come down to quality and I don't care what you hydro guys say, organic weed grown in dirt is always better. There will be a market for mass produced crap and there will be a market for the top shelf wares just like alcohol. It will change the supply and demand curve but only for mediocre weed. Headies will always fetch top dollar. I do agree that corperatizing weed is shameful and I think the herb should be held in the same respects as grapes for wine.

PS, this is also a city ordinance in accordance to SB420, watch how fast the feds bust these large scale grows if they get set up.

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I agree there will always be a demand for top shelf cannabis, and these massive operations will more then likely produce a mediocre product. I also agree that properly done well built organic soil is the best, without question. I'm just thinking about the scales of economy here. If we have four 10-12k square foot greenhouses pumping this stuff out, it's going to flood the market to a certain degree. Let's say there is an extra 1000 lbs in circulation in the bay area every 60-90 days as a result. At that scale (hypothetically) let's say supply and demand meet at $1200/lb...That's going to make it hard to continue to expect $3600 for a lb of perfectly done organic OG Kush. I just think that's too much of price gap, and it's going to drag down the top shelf stuff with it.

Gangaman your thoughts are really good but just a little flawed. In any given product line that has low, mid, and high offerings there will always be a call for the top shelf brand, such as in alcohol. Now if the market is flooded with mid range goods what usually happens is that the low range goods will be affected more than the top shelf. What happens is people start buying the mid range due to cost and skip the low range since the price difference is low.

Now if we follow this law of economics a little further a funny thing can happen. If people start rushing to buy the mid range product thereby ignoring the low and high range this causes the demand to drop for those products. In the case of low range products this usually results in price cuts or lowering the amount of product that's available on the open market.

The high range market will still chug along just fine because most people that already buy top shelf will continue to do so. Sure there might be some price lowering at the high end, but not much. The reason being this is a sought after product, lots of people I know in the MMJ community buy nothing but top shelf for their ailments. Sure we also buy the other cheaper varieties for differing ailments but watch when something like OG Kush becomes available at your local dispensary, it usually sells out very quick.

So to recap these growers growing on such a large scale are going to be selling their product cheaper, but their quality is also probably going to be lower. That's why I myself will be growing always, so that I can have a steady supply of my OG and not have to use the cheaper stuff.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

Peace out

stonedmetalhead1 said:

Sure commercial growers are going to use hydro, it's the most cost effective way to grow and they could care less if it's top quality they just want money (people are greedy asshats). I grow 100% organic and I don't use nutes. I build my soil and use only water throughout the entire grow except for some sugars. It's easy to build a proper soil, I use Guano's, Bone Meal, Blood Meal, Epsom Salts, Powdered Humic Acid, Dolomite Lime, Azomite Trace Minerals, and Roots Soil as a base. All of this stuff is decently cheap and easy to use with a superior end product. I've experimented with about every grow method and proper organics is deffinately the way to go for headstash.

I'll put this up against hydro anyday. I might not yield as often as I would in hydro but the depth of flavors and the fullness of the smoke is incomparable. The potency of herb is determined by genetics so as long as the plant is grown to it's full potencial it doesn't matter how it was grown. For growing in soil I don't yeild horribly bad either, this crop yeilded me around 11 lbs. under 4000 watts without training the plants (I was looking for mothers this run so I let them grow naturally to see what they could do).

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I'm impressed! Mighty fine garden you have there sir. Good work.

whiteflour said:

I beg to differ. We DO need a real corporation to get behind this. Corporations don't like taxes. Taxes cut into profits, therefore corporations fight is for the consumer. The tobacco industry is the only industry in this country with enough pull and resources to accomplish full scale rescheduling. Or would you rather have Merck or Bayer controlling this?

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I dont want any of them controlling this, especially big tobacco... Look at the shit they put in there cigs already... RUTHLESS

stonedmetalhead1 said:

They also want control of the plant and their goal isn't quality it's profit and I would rather have the people of America be able to grow marijuana as freely as they want. Why do we feel that corporations are the way to go, why completely sell out before we even try to make things right? When these marijuana corporations get big enough they are going to do what every other corporation does and take there buisness oversea's when Americans need jobs more than ever. I really don't care if someone starts a corporation, my problem is they are the ones writing the bills which regulate every day citizens while deregulating themselves. I know I'm idealistic but this is a plant and no one should have control over it except mother earth.

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Very well said

how did you pull 11lbs off of 4k watts?

nathenking said:

Very well said

how did you pull 11lbs off of 4k watts?

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Thats only 1.23 grams per watt over the entire grow (a little over 2 1/2 month veg and 70 days flowering give or take a few depending on the plant) wich is a little under the .5 grams per watt every 30 days of flowering benchmark. The plants were healthy and the buds on the plants were pretty heavy being as most of the plants were affie's (LA Confidential) or affie hybrids (BTK Kush - G13 x C99 x Cindy x LA Con) and with an average of around 3.75 ounces a plant from 48 plants and plant sizes ranging from 3 feet to 6 feet. It's not really that spectacular, most growers should be hitting those numbers.

stonedmetalhead1 said:

Thats only 1.23 grams per watt over the entire grow (a little over 2 1/2 month veg and 70 days flowering give or take a few depending on the plant) wich is a little under the .5 grams per watt every 30 days of flowering benchmark. The plants were healthy and the buds on the plants were pretty heavy being as most of the plants were affie's (LA Confidential) or affie hybrids (BTK Kush - G13 x C99 x Cindy x LA Con) and with an average of around 3.75 ounces a plant from 48 plants and plant sizes ranging from 3 feet to 6 feet. It's not really that spectacular, most growers should be hitting those numbers.

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Wow, that is still impressive man... Nice work

I heard that there will be space available to growers in these whare houses like renting a storage unit. I also heard that these warehouses are expected to produce up to70 million lbs per year.

I'm not a fan of the warehouse grows. It's not just necessarily about quality and top shelf vs. commercial, it's all just about money. IMO, the only reason to start a warehouse other than money would be if there was a shortage of medicine for people, but as far as i know there is no shortage. Once the government sees income taxes from growing marijuana on that level and they can keep everything in check, they won't want you to be able to grow your 6 plants per patient anymore.... They will eventually want you to buy it from a dispensary using a warehouse so that nearly every aspect of medical marijuana will be regulated, which gives them the most possible control over production and income from it. Then before you know it, you will need a business and one of the limited number of commercial licenses to grow medical marijuana just as you would if you wanted to grow your own tobacco or create your own pharmaceuticals. Instead of a lot of people making a decent living, there will be a few making a lot of money and paying people 10 dollars an hour to do all the work. This is just my $.02 on the direction things will go in with these warehouses, especially if marijuana is legalized for recreational use.

I love this song its called OAKLAND by TOOShort!!!

slomoking13 said:

I'm not a fan of the warehouse grows. It's not just necessarily about quality and top shelf vs. commercial, it's all just about money. IMO, the only reason to start a warehouse other than money would be if there was a shortage of medicine for people, but as far as i know there is no shortage. Once the government sees income taxes from growing marijuana on that level and they can keep everything in check, they won't want you to be able to grow your 6 plants per patient anymore.... They will eventually want you to buy it from a dispensary using a warehouse so that nearly every aspect of medical marijuana will be regulated, which gives them the most possible control over production and income from it. Then before you know it, you will need a business and one of the limited number of commercial licenses to grow medical marijuana just as you would if you wanted to grow your own tobacco or create your own pharmaceuticals. Instead of a lot of people making a decent living, there will be a few making a lot of money and paying people 10 dollars an hour to do all the work. This is just my $.02 on the direction things will go in with these warehouses, especially if marijuana is legalized for recreational use.

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Exactly, it will start to push out the small people, and for what, just so you can have an ounce on you? Pathetic

akgrown said:

I heard that there will be space available to growers in these whare houses like renting a storage unit. I also heard that these warehouses are expected to produce up to70 million lbs per year.

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that does make a lot of sense
look at this from the business perspective, i know many don't like to, but it's going to be the reality
on the one hand DEA has been told to leave MMJ alone, that is a reduction in risk, risk not gone, but less
if prop 19 should pass, add into the equation the possibility of many wannabe closet growers with no closets(so to speak)
at that point, the rewards are beginning to outweigh the risks by a lot
and this is what guys with big bucks do, they're looking for the hot opportunity
but you have to move fast,or the other rich bastards will beat you
and there is your California situation in the summer of 2010