Nutrient deficiency close to finish

This is my first organic grow using a well cooked globally amended mix. The only additions to my water only approach was some foliar feeding with kelp in the early vegetative stage, top Dressing with a worm casting, fish meal, kelp and alfalfa meal at week 3 of flowering and 4 balanced organic tea applications over the past 8 weeks with the last a week ago. Trichomes are clear and only about 20 % of pistils are brown withabout 3 weeks remaining until finish. As evident by the attached pics, it appears asthought I haven't supplied enough amendments in my mix for sustained nitrogen and I'm sure other nutrients. Should I just try to ride it out for the remaining 3 weeks with RO water as any attempts at a organic topdress likely won't provide any benefits before they fnish anyways?

Odd that the lower leaves aren't dropping off and that the problem didn't start at the bottom and progress upwards. These are usually signs of a nitrogen deficiency. Seeing as you use RO and no feed perhaps you might have an Iron deficiency?

Renfro said:

Odd that the lower leaves aren't dropping off and that the problem didn't start at the bottom and progress upwards. These are usually signs of a nitrogen deficiency. Seeing as you use RO and no feed perhaps you might have an Iron deficiency?

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Yes Renfro, it has me perplexed. I'm noticing that it is creeping into the sugar leaves now and as with all things TLO, any changes likely won't correct this late into the flower. It has been suggested to CalMag (having a hard time with this) or feed the microbes e.g. Sugar load, EM1 which would feed the microbes and break down my nutrient base further if there is even anything left in my mix.? Leads back to the same response......if I don't have the answer......do nothing.

How's your lights off temps?

It's normal for the plant to get fall colours towards the end of its life cycle.

May wanna use some tap water and hope there is some iron in there. Also if the pH is higher than 6.5 you may start to limit uptake but thats sorta rare unless it's really high.

I hope dropped slightly from veg so on average 78, lights on, 68 lights of. I have experiences to lower light temp colour changes with my previous chem nutes grows but this looks different. Pales leaves that starts out with browning at the tips then progresses to the leaf base.

Northern Boxer said:

Yes Renfro, it has me perplexed. I'm noticing that it is creeping into the sugar leaves now and as with all things TLO, any changes likely won't correct this late into the flower. It has been suggested to CalMag (having a hard time with this) or feed the microbes e.g. Sugar load, EM1 which would feed the microbes and break down my nutrient base further if there is even anything left in my mix.?

Leads back to the same response......if I don't have the answer......do nothing.

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That last statement tells me that you're going to do fine with *organic's* steep learning curve. I had over 35 years experience making my own mix and growing 'stuff' with Jack's Classic when I got into organics in 2009. I quickly figured out just how ignorant I was on how nature worked. Slowly started to grok it, mainly from observation and with some reading for the theory, but mainly observation after something was added or tried. The hardest part of that was the realization that it would be weeks or months before effects showed themselves. Quite different from using chems. Anything that happed fast was almost always really bad.

You are more than correct in doing nothing at this late stage. There is simply not enough time for organic correction.

IDK, but to me, it seems more mineral based lack than a NPK deal. The sugar leaf's mentioned is troubling. I've had plants (outdoors), that lost all the fan leaves from scenescence, but the buds and sugar leaves remained a healthy green until harvest and I mean every single fan leaf dropped after being sucked dry. Really amazing in the end, but it freaked me the hell out while it was happening. LOL

Could you swing a soil test after harvest and before any reamending is done? See just what you do or don't have left in the mix to give you a direction for reamending?

My tap water is close to RO (avg 28ppm), and it took some time to get the minerals sorted out instead of chasing NPK around. I kept looking in the wrong place.

If you haven't yet, starting a worm bin for your own VC should be a top priority. Likely the #1 thing you can do for any organic growing. Literally!

Wet

Northern Boxer said:

This is my first organic grow using a well cooked globally amended mix. The only additions to my water only approach was some foliar feeding with kelp in the early vegetative stage, top Dressing with a worm casting, fish meal, kelp and alfalfa meal at week 3 of flowering and 4 balanced organic tea applications over the past 8 weeks with the last a week ago. Trichomes are clear and only about 20 % of pistils are brown withabout 3 weeks remaining until finish. As evident by the attached pics, it appears asthought I haven't supplied enough amendments in my mix for sustained nitrogen and I'm sure other nutrients. Should I just try to ride it out for the remaining 3 weeks with RO water as any attempts at a organic topdress likely won't provide any benefits before they fnish anyways? View attachment 4272230

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Seeing yellowing in the tops like that, I'd be leaning towards pH of the medium being off rather than nutrient deficiency. you can do a quick check by taking 5grams of your soil and diluting it with 30ml of RO water and shaking it violently for 5 minutes. take a paper filter, such as a coffee filter (pre rinsed with RO), and filter the water solution and check the pH of that. This will give you a pretty good idea of where your pH is in the soil. take multiple samples and see what your average pH is across the board.

If I were you, I'd do nothing at this point and just let them ride it out and make adjustments for the next grow. topdressing will only delay your harvest and you won't really see much benefit by the time it starts working anyway. if you really want to do something, you could do a fish hydrolysate and kelp liquid application. that would be the most effective thing with the time you have left. But if the pH is off, then it doesn't matter. only very little of a liquid application will be absorbed before the soil pH takes over the pH of the feeding.

If you need iron you can just ferment stinging nettles. Really effective, just gather some stinging nettle leaves put them in a bucket, fill it with water, close the lid and wait atleast couple weeks. You can start using it after two weeks or maybe even after a week if you in hurry. You would have to just use more of it.

GentleCaveman said:

If you need iron you can just ferment stinging nettles. Really effective, just gather some stinging nettle leaves put them in a bucket, fill it with water, close the lid and wait atleast couple weeks. You can start using it after two weeks or maybe even after a week if you in hurry. You would have to just use more of it.

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but if the pH is off... it's not going to matter. A foliar would help, if cannabis can absorb Fe via a foliar spray. I'm not sure if it can or can't.

ShLUbY said:

but if the pH is off... it's not going to matter. A foliar would help, if cannabis can absorb Fe via a foliar spray. I'm not sure if it can or can't.

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People generally foliar feed with stinging nettle, so I would guess it can. It's not gonna fix everything bu it could help a little. Was just a suggestion.

I got one fermenting right now actually, got some cannabis leaves in it also. Smells like fucking shit though, I take a big inhale every time I open it because I ain't bitch. Definitely good stuff.

You gotta dilute it to atleast 30/1 if you gonna foliar feed depending on how well it fermented. Just a heads up.

Thanks to all of you for your input and advice. I do check my PH on a regular basis but done by testing my runoff, not the process you outlined shLUby. Wetdog, I believe soil testing has merit though some of the prices I have been quoted in Ontario are quite steep. What type of details were you provided and what did it cost you?

Soil ph comes in 6.2

Attached is a close up pic of the creep into the sugar leaves and new growth

Looks like Ca being insufficient or locked out

Northern Boxer said:

Attached is a close up pic of the creep into the sugar leaves and new growthView attachment 4272522

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ok close pictures are more helpful. it's difficult communicating between two different threads haha.

tell me what your recipe for the soil was exactly. lets start there.

ShLUbY said:

ok close pictures are more helpful. it's difficult communicating between two different threads haha.

tell me what your recipe for the soil was exactly. lets start there.

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Sorry for the ping pong I originally posted in general and then was advised to post in Organics LOL. I will stick with this thread moving forward and thanks for the feedback

Northern Boxer said:

My soil recipe consists of...
8 gallon organic soil mix
6 gal perlite
4 gal worm castings
1/2 cup Gaia Green 4-4-4
2 cups bonemeal
2 cups feathermeal
1/4 cup soft rock phosphate
1/4 cup oyster shell flower
3 cup alfalfa meal
2 cup kelp meal
1/2 cup gypsum
When I transferred to my flowering pot I used the same mix but layered the bottom of the pot with general purpose Gaia Green 2-8-4. I also Top dressed with 1/2 cup of worm castings into week 2 of flower as the fan leaves appeared lighter than normal otherwise I am 6 weeks into flower and all I have added was 2 applications of compost tea Since flower. The first at a ratio of 5-1 at week 2, the second at a ratio of 3-1. Since then I have watered once 4 days ago with straight RO. Need to water tonigh and debating if I should add some EM 1 so I'm not using straight RO. Am I incorrect to believe that straight RO will strip any remaining nutrients and minerals from my soil?

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ok my man, I found your recipe.

it's interesting that your friend is having no issues with the same recipe though, even though the lighting is what differs between you the most.

this thing looks potent. Most notably is the abundance of phosphate in the mix, which is known for locking up nutrients when it is in excess. I would have an extremely hard time thinking you have a deficiency in anything, and more of an excess.

let me ask you a few things.

1. What are your watering habits? Organic soils require consistent moisture all the time, no wet/dry cycles.
2. Are you watering to the point of runoff? Generally, you want to avoid runoff at all costs because you strip nutrients from your soil via leeching.
3. Are you never using just plain H2O? with your mix, you should pretty much only be using plain water all the way from start to finish.
4. What is your method for compost teas? Generally you'd be better off doing compost extracts, because teas are only as effective if you are proficient in using a microscope to analyze if your tea is any good. just cause you bubble some shit in a bucket, doesn't mean its good. Also, too much molasses can be bad for your soil and your plant/microbe relationships.

ApfelStrudel said:

Looks like Ca being insufficient or locked out

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After seeing his recipe, I'm inclined in that direction also.

OP, a couple of things. Your liming agent should be ~1cup/cf. You have 1/4 cup of OSF for a bit over 2cf. No surprise the soil pH is 6.2 and likely the Ca is mostly consumed. Should have been ~2cups of OSF.

OSF is nearly pure CaCO3. Good stuff but does not provide any Mg. I use dolomite which provides both Ca and Mg and the 'Cal Mag' issue never arises. Plus I don't need to go hunting a Mg source. The dolo is also stupid cheap locally, being ~$4.50 for a 40lb bag. The same size bag of OSF is nearly 10x as much, to me, due to shipping. It certainly doesn't work 10x better, but, YMMV. It's way too late to add any now, but don't forget it when you reamend after harvest.

Checking runoff is nearly useless for soil pH. Do the soil test like ShLUbY detailed for you for a much more accurate picture. Even using test strips with this method works well. I use them quite a bit for a quick 'ballpark' figure and dig out the meter very seldom.

That's about all I wanted to add, ShLUbY has already asked other questions that I had and no need to repeat them. LOL, don't think there is any need for more phosphates when you reamend, that should still be covered.

Wet