New system design. Does it suck?

desertbloom

desertbloom

Active Member
I'm looking for any input from all you hydroponic wizards to let me know if this design has any potenial or if it outright sucks and why.

I'm trying to eliminate the drip lines because I'm always re adjusting them so they drip in the right place and at the right rate. I'm away for up to 2 weeks at a time and can't be giving daily attention. I want to automate this system as much as possible. I've also had some problems getting enough O2 to my roots and have had some root rot in the past. I'd like to try and produce plants with a firm, strong and very white root system.

I drew out the diagram to help visualize this idea. I'd like to set up a seperate 4 gal nute reservoir with a pump (1). The pump would send the nute water thru the line and spray the roots and net pots (plant holders). The main grow chamber would be at a slight angle for drainage. The nute water would accululate at the bottom of the main grow chamber and drain back to the nute reservoir thru the return lines. I plan on running the pump on a timer so the sprays operate 5-10 mins per 1/2 hour.

The fresh water reservoir would be set up on a gravity feed so that the nute reservoir would remain full. I wanted to use a float valve to turn off the fresh water flow when the nute reservoir was full.

Here's my big problem. (I'm sure you folks will come up with others that I don't realize).

Whe the nutes are pumped up to the main chamber the float valve will drop and begin refilling the nute res. I want to avoid the possibilty of overflow when the main chamber drains back to the nute reservoir.
Any ideas?

Thanks,

DB :peace:
 

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VictorVIcious

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
desertbloom said:
I'm looking for any input from all you hydroponic wizards to let me know if this design has any potenial or if it outright sucks and why.

I'm trying to eliminate the drip lines because I'm always re adjusting them so they drip in the right place and at the right rate. I'm away for up to 2 weeks at a time and can't be giving daily attention. I want to automate this system as much as possible. I've also had some problems getting enough O2 to my roots and have had some root rot in the past. I'd like to try and produce plants with a firm, strong and very white root system.

I drew out the diagram to help visualize this idea. I'd like to set up a seperate 4 gal nute reservoir with a pump (1). The pump would send the nute water thru the line and spray the roots and net pots (plant holders). The main grow chamber would be at a slight angle for drainage. The nute water would accululate at the bottom of the main grow chamber and drain back to the nute reservoir thru the return lines. I plan on running the pump on a timer so the sprays operate 5-10 mins per 1/2 hour.

The fresh water reservoir would be set up on a gravity feed so that the nute reservoir would remain full. I wanted to use a float valve to turn off the fresh water flow when the nute reservoir was full.

Here's my big problem. (I'm sure you folks will come up with others that I don't realize).

Whe the nutes are pumped up to the main chamber the float valve will drop and begin refilling the nute res. I want to avoid the possibilty of overflow when the main chamber drains back to the nute reservoir.
Any ideas?

Thanks,

DB :peace:
Click to expand...
MOgie had addressed this topic with a Vacation Type float watering system, never really understood it. Sounds to me like what you really want is a ready made ebb and flow system. Uses a controller and a reservoir. Still two weeks is a long time with an aero type system with no nute and ph checks. VV
 
M

massbaster

Well-Known Member
run two float sensors. one for the res and one for the fresh. just set the fresh one to a level lower than the res one.
put them both in the res tank. i'm sure someone else will have a better way but that should work for simplistic terms
of course upon reviewing your design you would need another pump for the fresh or a control vavle for the gravity feed where the res floats keeps plants wet but when res drops significantly the fresh float will either turn on pump and fill res or open valve and let water gravitate in.
when fresh float reaches appropriate level it should turn off or close and res pump should start
 
desertbloom

desertbloom

Active Member
Thanks V.V. but from what I've read I didn't think an ebb & flow allowed for spray heads. Am I wrong? And yes, your right 2 weeks is a long time no nute and pH checks. I'm looking into systems that will add solutions based on set ranges but I don't know if they have them. If I find them they'll probably break the bank. How about a nice game of chess?

Massbaster: Great idea with the float sensors. Need to do a bit more research. The 2nd pump wouldn't be a problem. Simplistic is best and fits better into my brain.
 
desertbloom

desertbloom

Active Member
Hey gohydro

Maybe I'm missing something here. I understand why you'd run the pumps all the time but why use airstones? The main chamber containing the roots is designed to be a dry chamber (Rather than filled with nute water like a standard hydroponic system). When the spray heads turn on they hydrate, feed and airate the roots. The nute water drains back into the reservoir.
 
gohydro

gohydro

Well-Known Member
desertbloom said:
Hey gohydro

Maybe I'm missing something here. I understand why you'd run the pumps all the time but why use airstones? The main chamber containing the roots is designed to be a dry chamber (Rather than filled with nute water like a standard hydroponic system). When the spray heads turn on they hydrate, feed and airate the roots. The nute water drains back into the reservoir.
Click to expand...
Well...this is sort of a 2 part question and my answer is what works for me rather than a preferred way. I do not use one common resevoir....each of my tubs have a spray pump inside the tub. Although it's a pain in the ass mixing nutes in several resevoirs I do it for 2 reasons:

1. I want the redundancy and the safety it brings. If something screws up (root rot, pump failure, etc.) it doesn't affect my entire grow.
2. I often grow more than one strain and the nute mixes may be different in each tub.

With respect to system design, my tubs are usually about 60% full of areated water. The roots hang down in to the solution as well as being sprayed. IF a pump fails, and the roots have grown long enough to reach the solution (usually about 2 weeks old), I have a lot of time to get a replacement pump up and working. Soaking in the solution keeps them alive until such time.

Lastly....I believe that there is no such thing as too much oxygenated water. Each tub has it's own airpump with dual outlets and (2) 12" airstones in each tub. Yes the spray pumps oxygenate the water but the airstones help too. I connect 1 hose from each airpump to each of the two tubs. Again...redundancy. If the air pump fails I'm still getting air from a second pump.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/54294-papaya-hindu-kush-aerotub-journal.html
 
desertbloom

desertbloom

Active Member
That explaination was great! Thanks for taking the time. I thought a lot about what you said and this new design I'm planning. I've realized the design just won't work. I did decide to go with the spray heads rather than these stupid dip lines.

I checked out your journal and the pics of your system. I assume the big PVC on top of your tubs are supports for your lighting, correct? You also have some major plumbing for drainage I see. Cool setup!

If you don't mind, I have some questions.

Those are huge tubs you use and you said you keep them about 60%. Thats must be about 20 to 25 gallons of nute solution in each. Why so much?

I'm looking to create a mist rather than a spray, but the heads I got at the local nursery gernerate more of a mini sprinkler effect rather than a fine mist. I found heads they call aero microjet heads but I'm not sure if they would do the same thing. Which heads do you use? Do you have any experience with the ones shown on the link below?

HorticultureSource.com - Specialty Gardening Supplies - Advanced Search - Search Results - micro spray

I also use irrigation bubblers rather than air stones. I never had luck with airstones. They didn't seem to put out enough and from what I've leared, the size of the bubbles don't matter. I find the amount of O2 output is greater with the bubblers. My nute solution bubbles like a witches brew.

I have 2 seperate systems. 1 for veg and 1 for flower so I can have different nutes, lighting times, etc. I'm trying to get to the point where I'm constantly vegging, flowering and harvesting every few weeks. I also grow multiple stains and often wondered if different strains require different nutes but never saw any info that specifically said it was necessary. Do you find it makes a difference?

My flower tub is only 7 inches deep (about 13 gallons) and my nute solution comes almost up to the bottom of my net pots so most of the roots sit on solution.

Like you, I had a problems with my first cloning attempt but I'm still in the learning curve. No matter how much you read, nothing beats hands on experience.

Thanks again bro

DB
 
gohydro

gohydro

Well-Known Member
desertbloom said:
That explaination was great! Thanks for taking the time. I thought a lot about what you said and this new design I'm planning. I've realized the design just won't work. I did decide to go with the spray heads rather than these stupid dip lines.

I checked out your journal and the pics of your system. I assume the big PVC on top of your tubs are supports for your lighting, correct? You also have some major plumbing for drainage I see. Cool setup!

If you don't mind, I have some questions.

Those are huge tubs you use and you said you keep them about 60%. Thats must be about 20 to 25 gallons of nute solution in each. Why so much?

I'm looking to create a mist rather than a spray, but the heads I got at the local nursery gernerate more of a mini sprinkler effect rather than a fine mist. I found heads they call aero microjet heads but I'm not sure if they would do the same thing. Which heads do you use? Do you have any experience with the ones shown on the link below?

HorticultureSource.com - Specialty Gardening Supplies - Advanced Search - Search Results - micro spray

I also use irrigation bubblers rather than air stones. I never had luck with airstones. They didn't seem to put out enough and from what I've leared, the size of the bubbles don't matter. I find the amount of O2 output is greater with the bubblers. My nute solution bubbles like a witches brew.

I have 2 seperate systems. 1 for veg and 1 for flower so I can have different nutes, lighting times, etc. I'm trying to get to the point where I'm constantly vegging, flowering and harvesting every few weeks. I also grow multiple stains and often wondered if different strains require different nutes but never saw any info that specifically said it was necessary. Do you find it makes a difference?

My flower tub is only 7 inches deep (about 13 gallons) and my nute solution comes almost up to the bottom of my net pots so most of the roots sit on solution.

Like you, I had a problems with my first cloning attempt but I'm still in the learning curve. No matter how much you read, nothing beats hands on experience.

Thanks again bro

DB
Click to expand...
I'll try to answer each question.

Actually those tubs are 18 gallon Rubbermaid tubs and when I add nute solution it's usually about 12-14 gallons. During the first few weeks it is a waste of nutes but once they get going I don't need to worry about topping off each day due to the amount of water they use.

Here's the sprayheads I use. I don't like microjets...they clog up too easily
5 pack. 360 deg. pin sprayers @ FUTUREGARDEN.COM

I use these for 2 reasons.
1. If they get gunk in them you can pull the pin, spray the gunk out and put the pin back in.
2. After drilling the hole in the PVC you push in a rubber grommet and thread the nozzle in to that. It is so much easier.

Those people sell bulkhead fittings too which will be needed when you need to add a drain.

The PVC around the tubs is for plant support. They have proved invaluable when the plants get big.

Some strains can deal with higher concentrations of nutes.

I have a drain connected to the lower side of the tubs but the manifold PVC also pokes through the side of the tub. This works great! When the tubs become rootbound the PVC through the side is the strongest way to keep the manifold level. Secondly, when it comes time to change solutions I just turn off the pumps, unscrew the cap on the outside of the tub, connect a hose, turn the pumps back on and allow the spray pump to pump out the old nutes. The drain on the lower end is just to get the last little bit.

One piece of advise. When drilling your holes in the top of the tub do NOT make them just a fraction of an inch smaller than the diameter of your netpots (and expect that little rim to keep the pots from falling through). When the plants get big and start to lean a little the netpost will fall right in. The holes I drill are probably 1/4" smaller than the pot. This means the pot sits up a little (maybe 1/4"). Because the pots are tapered they won't fall through.
 
gohydro

gohydro

Well-Known Member
a pic is worth a thousand words. Still installing nozzles at this point. See the hose connection on the side of the tub? It makes emptying the tub easy.
 

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desertbloom

desertbloom

Active Member
Didn't see your earlier reply about the spray heads so forgive me repeating the question.

Your heads sound like the way to go. But I'm not sure if they will seat into the flex hose as well as the one I use.

Draining is not a problem for me. I'm lucky enough to be using a shower stall with a built in drain for the system. I just pull a rubber stopper from the bottom of the tub and drain in 5 minutes.

The only problem with the net pot that much smaller than the hole is getting the root ball thru the hole if you ever remove the plant.

I wasn't planning on using PVC for my spray head line. I'm going with 3/8 ID flex tubing. The head thread directly into the tub and form a tight seal. Routing the line around the bottom of the lid for total spray distribution is a snap.

Thanks again
 
desertbloom

desertbloom

Active Member
gohydro said:
a pic is worth a thousand words. Still installing nozzles at this point. See the hose connection on the side of the tub? It makes emptying the tub easy.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the pics. I'll pass some along when I start building. The tub that you show your journal looked bigger. Your tubs hold about as much nutes as mine.

How often do you change nutes. I use the Flora Nova series. What do you use?

DB
 
gohydro

gohydro

Well-Known Member
desertbloom said:
Thanks for the pics. I'll pass some along when I start building. The tub that you show your journal looked bigger. Your tubs hold about as much nutes as mine.

How often do you change nutes. I use the Flora Nova series. What do you use?

DB
Click to expand...

I switched from GH nutes to Advanced nutes. With respect to the rootball fitting through the hole you can forget about that once they get big. The roots become so entangled you'll never remove just one pot.
 

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desertbloom

desertbloom

Active Member
WOW, incredable roots. Very healthly looking. When I saw the pic of the system you're building I wondered if the roots get entangled in the the PVC and if that interfears with the spray heads. How the hell did you lift the lid with the (6?) plants? How do you like the Advanced (that is a brand, right) opposed to the GH?
 
gohydro

gohydro

Well-Known Member
desertbloom said:
WOW, incredable roots. Very healthly looking. When I saw the pic of the system you're building I wondered if the roots get entangled in the the PVC and if that interfears with the spray heads. How the hell did you lift the lid with the (6?) plants? How do you like the Advanced (that is a brand, right) opposed to the GH?
Click to expand...
Well, that picture was taken after I cut my babies down so there was no issue lifting the lids. In addition I only had 4 fems so the tub wasn't full.

This is my first grow with Advanced. I'm still muddling through it. They appear to be a little weaker than GH products or the plants process them better. When I was using GH I could never run above 600ppm or I'd get leaf burn. I am now at 700ppm with advanced and it appears that I can go a little higher. My only issue is that my local hydro shop doesn't sell Advanced. The owner seems to think there is a "stigma" attached to those nutes and says that "only 1 type of person buys Advanced" and doesn't want that stigma attached to his shop. I say " Yeah Right, like 99% of the people I see in here are growing tomatoes".
 
desertbloom

desertbloom

Active Member
LOL, right! Maybe when the bombs drop we'll all change over to veggies. I do most shopping on-line but knowing the local guy isn't a bad idea for something you need quick or to pick their brains. (Don't really like showing my face) I'm about 3 weeks out from my 1st totally successful harvest (even though I had some major root rot problems with this grow) My first was a complete failure and my 2nd yeilded only 1 small plant that I think I pulled too soon (live and learn). My 4th grow is 1 week into veg and so far so good. Hey, that AN stuff is pretty pricey. I just stocked up on GH. My TDS is holding at 1400 and all the girls look very happy. Good talking with ya!
DB
 
gohydro

gohydro

Well-Known Member
desertbloom said:
LOL, right! Maybe when the bombs drop we'll all change over to veggies. I do most shopping on-line but knowing the local guy isn't a bad idea for something you need quick or to pick their brains. (Don't really like showing my face) I'm about 3 weeks out from my 1st totally successful harvest (even though I had some major root rot problems with this grow) My first was a complete failure and my 2nd yeilded only 1 small plant that I think I pulled too soon (live and learn). My 4th grow is 1 week into veg and so far so good. Hey, that AN stuff is pretty pricey. I just stocked up on GH. My TDS is holding at 1400 and all the girls look very happy. Good talking with ya!
DB
Click to expand...
Want massive roots? Try Hygrozyme.....pretty pricey (about 30 bucks a litre) but works wonders. Root rot? Advanced has Pihrana. That will clear things up. Just don't let rez temps get too high. A buddy of mine is always adding this stuff and that stuff. Recently he put some shit in the rez (god only knows which additive caused that) and everything started to smell really funky. He got some pihrana and everything cleared up within 3 days.
 
desertbloom

desertbloom

Active Member
Educate me please. My current systems are what I guess you would call tranditional hydoponics (nute reservoir w/ drip heads, and water aeration). All I'm planning to do is switch from the drip heads on top of the lid to spray heads below the lid. Is that considered a aero system? Why would the nute requirements be different? My frist system was a Sunlight Shed system (costly mistake) and I'm pretty much using the nute schedule they laid out which instucts that nutes should increase with the plant height.
 
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