New High Times Suggests Harvesting Earlier...RIU Rejoice!

CaptainCAVEMAN

Well-Known Member
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Here is an excellent example of 'the plant saying it is ready to harvest.' This is Bubba Kush pre '98 at day 58. I agree with serapis. The calendar gets me close and then the plant will let me know when it is ready. This one really showed it's fall colors.
 

IXOYE

Active Member
What does "more potent" mean to the good Dr. Mahlberg?
My plants are a month into flower - all clear trichs of course - and I sampled/quick dried with my vape. The high was very nice, creative, busy bee kinda' high. But I agree with Tardis there was kinda' a "hung over" feel the next morning. A month is way early of course but curiosity was getting to me. I'll certainly be waiting til she fills out for another month at least before I try a sample again. I think it's best, though, to harvest a few branches in a couple stages (clear, cloudy and amber) to get different vibes.
 

Alex Kelly

Active Member
It's up to the grower and their personal preference, and the strain of weed as well. If my stigmas are all still white and the calyxes haven't swelled yet, I don't care what color the trichomes are, it ain't done.
Well then you obviously arn't trying to achieve the highest levels of THC but more weight and flavor. That's fine, but this thread is not for you so go somewhere else.
 

YungMoolaBaby

Well-Known Member
FROM SPRUCEZEUS'S OPINION ON HARVESTING:

Despite popular opinion to the contrary(and don't fool yourself, the jury is still out on this one) Recent studies have shown;contrary to what was previously believed, that THC itself (And its predecessor THC-A) are quite guilty of causing the confusion and drowsiness associated with burnout and other cannabinoids (our friend CBN, and a handful of others) to be the catalyst (along with THC) to being 'high' rather than 'baked'


Regardless, whether or not there is any substance to the aforementioned study, it's easy to get the high you want.


If you want a soaring 'cerebral' high: Get yourself a tropical Sativa that contains a high level of THC-V and grow it until it is ripe. If you want the narcotic couch-lock stone, grow a rugged Indica until it's ripe. Notice a pattern of growing it until it's ripe? It's a really good rule to live by. OF course we have to remember that there is more to a good high than just THC. At last count there are at least 66 cannabinoids, and we don't know what most of them do.

Now a lot of people will tell you that you should harvest based on the color of your trichomes. But (again, in my opinion) that is far too simplistic and there are too many variables to make that an effective strategy. I've made that point a million times before and I'm not going to re-hash it here, (maybe just a bit) but rest assured there is more to the picture than just trichome color.


A ripe marijuana plant will be filled in, will have an amber tinge to the buds. The pistils should have browned (or orange-d) off and receded into the buds. The seed bracts should be swollen and the trichomes should be sticking straight out with bulbous ends. Also, because you're coming close to the end of plant's life cycle, the leaves should have yellowed off and started to die.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
Well then you obviously arn't trying to achieve the highest levels of THC but more weight and flavor. That's fine, but this thread is not for you so go somewhere else.
This thread is for anyone that is a member in good standing of RIU that is capable of pulling up a web browser and typing in a user ID and password.

Only 24 posts in and you are already telling others what to do.... That's says a lot about your future here .... :roll:
 

Alex Kelly

Active Member
FROM SPRUCEZEUS'S OPINION ON HARVESTING:

Despite popular opinion to the contrary(and don't fool yourself, the jury is still out on this one) Recent studies have shown;contrary to what was previously believed, that THC itself (And its predecessor THC-A) are quite guilty of causing the confusion and drowsiness associated with burnout and other cannabinoids (our friend CBN, and a handful of others) to be the catalyst (along with THC) to being 'high' rather than 'baked'


Regardless, whether or not there is any substance to the aforementioned study, it's easy to get the high you want.


If you want a soaring 'cerebral' high: Get yourself a tropical Sativa that contains a high level of THC-V and grow it until it is ripe. If you want the narcotic couch-lock stone, grow a rugged Indica until it's ripe. Notice a pattern of growing it until it's ripe? It's a really good rule to live by. OF course we have to remember that there is more to a good high than just THC. At last count there are at least 66 cannabinoids, and we don't know what most of them do.

Now a lot of people will tell you that you should harvest based on the color of your trichomes. But (again, in my opinion) that is far too simplistic and there are too many variables to make that an effective strategy. I've made that point a million times before and I'm not going to re-hash it here, (maybe just a bit) but rest assured there is more to the picture than just trichome color.


A ripe marijuana plant will be filled in, will have an amber tinge to the buds. The pistils should have browned (or orange-d) off and receded into the buds. The seed bracts should be swollen and the trichomes should be sticking straight out with bulbous ends. Also, because you're coming close to the end of plant's life cycle, the leaves should have yellowed off and started to die.
A reference or where you got this info from would be nice. For now I'm going to have to go with the previous scientific articles posted that had some real credit.
 

Alex Kelly

Active Member
This thread is for anyone that is a member in good standing of RIU that is capable of pulling up a web browser and typing in a user ID and password.

Only 24 posts in and you are already telling others what to do.... That's says a lot about your future here .... :roll:
That guy just told all of us when our plants will be ready and that all of the science posted in this thread is wrong with no evidence or anything to back it up whatsoever.
LMAO "here" is an online marijuana cultivation forum that I use strictly for research (obv we are different in this way), I don't give a fuck about my future here....
 

clitlover

Member
Great debate, lets just maybe try something different for our next grow and choose for ourselves, lets just have proper etiquette while addressing are differences. time to cure the confusion.
 
Fantastic thread! I've looked up a couple other papers by Dr. Mahlberg and its fascinating. After reading through two weeks of academia research papers about soybeans and polymers, its that man that makes me love this shit again.
 

dirk d

Active Member
one thing i noticed is whenever i see pics of bud the trich's are not amber they are all clear to slightly milky.
 

Brick Top

New Member
New High Times has an article that says Dr. Paul G. Mahlberg has done a study proving that trichromes are most potent when clear-not milky and certainly not amber. Can anyone find this study without spending 3 days reading everything the guy ever wrote?
That is not really new news. Old time growers have known that for decades. Here is how the amber belief came to be.

At one time in many part of the world, the U.S. in particular, pure sativa strains were all there was to be found commercially and in that era if you grew you grew from the seeds you found in what you purchased. Indica's began to become more widespread and some people preferred the couch-lock stone they provided .. but 'The Dutch Masters' had to keep competing for high THC levels because growers/smokers believed, and many still do, that high THC levels are all important.

CBD is what causes a true couch-lock stone. For the most part conversion of CBG into CBD is controlled by a single gene (Bd) which is codominant with the gene that converts CBG into THC. For example a plant that inherits a Bd gene from one parent and a Bt gene from the other will have roughly equal content of CBD and THC. However, if the plant is homozygous for Bd it will have very little THCc and if its homozygous for Bt it will have very little CBD

To remain competitive in the THC race the gene to create CBD has been almost totally bred out of modern strains resulting in extremely low percentages of CBD. When THC breaks down, when it oxidizes it becomes CBN, a mildly psychoactive substance that causes a fuzzy head feeling, drowsiness, sleepiness, confusion and disorientation which mainly affects the body. So to get a fake couch-lock body stone growers began to grow their crops beyond levels of peak THC potency, throwing away THC/potency, trading it off for increased levels of CBN trying to find something somewhat like CBD provides and what they actually like.

Amber in glandular trichomes is a sign of oxidized THC, lost THC, degraded THC that has transformed into CBN and NOT into CBD.

I have climbed on my soapbox and have preached that sermon for years and years and people always reply claiming that amber equates to increased potency, that you want amber trichomes, some say 50/50 cloudy/amber and some say a higher percentage of amber is what is best. Seldom have ever believed me that peak potency in most modern crosses is reached when most glandular trichomes are cloudy/milky. You want to see about 5% to 10% amber and that is all. That is when the rest of the trichomes should be at or very close to maximum potency. If you harvest much earlier you risk having mainly precursor elements and you will get high but it will be short lived.

Where the cloudy/milky thing is not totally accurate is when someone is growing a pure sativa or a cross that is almost pure sativa, as in 90% or more sativa. In pure and almost pure sativas they reach maximum potency when the glandular trichomes are still clear. In those cases you would wait until you see roughly 5% to 10% cloudy/milky trichomes and that is a sign that the rest should be at or very close to maximum potency.

CANNABIGEROL (CBG)




CBG is a precursor of higher cannabinoids such as CBC, CBD, THC and there are very small amounts of it in drug strains although it occurs in greater concentrations in hemp. It's a non-psychoactive cannabinoid but it is known for lowering blood pressure and it is also useful for treating mood disorders.



CANNABICHROMENE (CBC)



CBC is nonpsychoactive and it is used as an "energy-storage" compound which is readily converted back to CBG if needed. Some evidence show that CBC may play a role in providing the anti-inflammatory effects of cannabis and that it may also contribute to the overall analgesic or pain killing properties, but further research is needed to verify these assumptions.



CANNABIDIOL (CBD)





CBD is generally considered to have more medicinal properties than THC. It appears to relieve convulsion, inflammation (and thereby also migraines), anxiety and nausea. That is why strains with a high concentration of CBD is suitable for medicinal use.

Although CBD has its own particular medicinal value it is not more important than THC when it comes to treating various afflictions. It is the interaction between the two that gives rise to the effect that sometimes alleviates the symptoms of various medical conditions.

CBD has a greater affinity for the CB2 receptor than for the CB1 receptor, meaning that its effect is mostly in the body and not so much in the head. CBD shares a precursor with THC and is the main cannabinoid in low-THC cannabis strains.

Landrace strains, usually of indica heritage, contain higher concentrations of CBD than recreational drug strains, which are usually bred towards a higher concentration of THC. This is the reason why strains containing high ratios of CBD can be difficult to find.



TETRAHYDROCANNABINOL (THC)





Tetrahydrocannabinol, also known as delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (Δ9-THC), is the primary psychoactive component found in the cannabis plant. It was first isolated by Raphael Mechoulam, Yechiel Gaoni, and Habib Edery from the Weizmann Institute of Science in Rehovot, Israel, in 1964.




This is the main compound that gives rise to the high that is tightly linked with the cannabis plant. It affects several areas of the brain simultaneously and can therefore give rise to an assortment of experiences, ranging from altered perception of time and the self, to feelings of euphoria and relaxation all through the body.


Medically, it appears to be analgetic, meaning that it is capable of alleviating even severe pain. It is also known to be neuroprotective, which rules out the possibility of brain damage, which was initially proposed to follow from heavy use of the plant. It has approximately equal affinity for the CB1 and CB2 receptors. By binding to CB1 receptors (the ones in brain) it produces the high that we are so familiar with. That is why the effects of THC is more cerebral, than the effect of CBD, which seems to have a greater affinity for the CB2 receptor.





TETRAHYDROCANNABIVARIN (THCV)





THCV is the propyl homologue of THC and is similar in structure. The propyl cannabinoids have so far been found in some varieties originating from Southeast and Central parts of Asia as well as Africa, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and Nepal. What are considered some of the most potent marijuana varieties also contain propyl cannabinoids. Some examples include traditional African landrace sativas as well as pure Thai varieties and various hybrids known as Haze.



CANNABINOL (CBN)




Cannabinol is the primary degradation product of THC and increases in concentration with plant age. The concentration of this product in the bud is heavily dependent on the time of harvest. Harvesting the bud at a late stage also means that the concentration of CBN in relation to THC will be higher when compared to the peak of THC production.

CBN content increases as THC degradesr. It is only mildly psychoactive and can cause "fuzzy head", drowsiness, disorientation and sleepiness in the smoker, properties that can be considered unpleasant in nature compared to the clear high of the THC. Its affinity to the CB2 receptors is higher than for the CB1 receptor, meaning that it mostly affects the body.


THC BIOSYNTHESIS




In order to fully understand and appreciate the most important cannabinoids, we first have to take a look at how they are produced inside the plant from lesser, precursor compounds.


By looking at this picture we get a better view of the metabolic pathway that leads to the desired psychoactive product called THC.


The metabolic chain that leads to THC starts when geranyl pyrophosphate combines with olivetolic acid, in order to create cannabigerolic acid (CBGA). This carboxylic acid is the shared precursor of all the three major cannabinoids that can be found in the plant; THC, CBD and CBC.

The cannabigerolic acid then forms into the carboxylic acid precursor of each of the named compounds. Cannabichromenic acid (CBCA) turns into the nonpsychoactive compound CBC. Cannabidiolic acid (CBDA) turns into the therapeutic cannabinoid CBD and finally tetrahydrocannabinolic acid (THCA) turns into the much sought after and highly psychoactive cannabinoid THC or tetrahydrocannabinol.

The carboxylic acids are characterized by the presence of the carboxyl group (-COOH). The carboxyl group splits off from the acid compounds through a process called decarboxylation, giving rise to CO2 in the process. This happens with age (curing) or when they are heated (smoked), effectively turning them into the final products. The curing process that the buds go through inside the jars, can actually be considered a slow decarboxylation process, so the result is the same. This however means that the plant can contain both the carboxylic acid form of THC as well as the finished product. More or less, depending on when it is measured. THC later oxidizes and is reduced into CBN further down the chain.

The capitate-stalked glandular trichome changes color as it matures. Newly formed and immature glands are clear, glands reaching optimum THC production are cloudy or milky and amber trichomes have already passed their peak. By looking at the trichomes you can also determine the best time to harvest your plants. When most trichomes have gone cloudy and a few amber ones have appeared, the plant is at its peak.




Us old timers have known that doe ages and ages but the puppies never accepted it and most refuse to believe it. But it is true. What the Beavis and Butthead stoner puppies never knew and never understood and refused to accept is what they want, according to their preference of a couch-lock body stone, is strains that are high in CBD but it is impossible to have high levels of both THC and CBD but Beavis and Butthead just had to have those high THC strains .. resulting in them picking strains that were not the best for their preference in a couch-lock body stone. To attempt to get a couch-lock body stone they attempted to play pot alchemist and transforming one element, THC, into something it cannot ever become, that being CBD, and ended up with CBN instead and believed they had turned lead into gold by growing their plants too long, growing them beyond peak potency and allowing THC levels to drop as THC oxidized into the CBN they mistook for being CBD.

And to make it more difficult for the Beavis and Butthead stoners to get what they wanted 'The Dutch Master's in their never ending insane quest to create 'The Holy Grail' bred almost totally bred CBD out of modern strains.

Juiced Marijuana Offered to Medical Users as Alternative to Smoking
June 15, 2010

A California physician is offering his medical-marijuana patients a liquefied version of the drug that he says won't produce much of a buzz but does contain chemicals helpful in treating a variety of illnesses, the Washington Post reported June 1.

Willets, Calif., physician William Courtney, M.D., said that marijuana with high levels of cannabidiol (CBD) seems to have the most medical potential; ironically, CBD levels seem to be lowest in marijuana strains of the plant that are highest in THC -- the main psychoactive substance in marijuana.

"What has happened is, almost all strains available in America through the black market are THC concentrates," said Ethan Russo, senior medical adviser to GW Pharmaceuticals, which is developing the marijuana-based pain medication Sativex. "The CBD in almost all cases has been bred out. The reason is cannabis in this country has been cultivated for its intoxicating effect."

Medical-marijuana advocates want to see more research into CBD. "The bridge to legalization is medical marijuana," said Addison DeMoura, one of the owners of the Steep Hill Medical Collective in Oakland. "I believe the bridge from medical marijuana to real science will be CBDs."
 

gumball

Well-Known Member
That is not really new news. Old time growers have known that for decades. Here is how the amber belief came to be....
very good post, informative, thank you :clap: i will definitely watch my plants more closely based off of this, and will begin partial harvests at 100% cloudy/milky :weed:
 

Total Head

Well-Known Member
no one has really touched on the fact that a pollinated plant will take longer to mature regardless of what the hairs or trichs are doing. right now i have a couple chiesel that i am dying to chop but they just don't look done. most of the hairs are all brown and it's not packing on the weight the way i would like, but the trichs are about 10% amber. if i can see the hairs sticking out and they haven't receeded into the bud it's just not done to me. the catch 22 is that if i let this (lightly) pollinated plant fully "mature" the way i want it to it will essentially be overripe. very annoying. in the pic you can see all the brown hairs (ignore all the necrosis lol. she's a trooper) but to me the plant is not done. it's actually throwing out more fucking pistils.
 

Attachments

Brick Top

New Member
A ripe marijuana plant will be filled in, will have an amber tinge to the buds. The pistils should have browned (or orange-d) off and receded into the buds. The seed bracts should be swollen and the trichomes should be sticking straight out with bulbous ends. Also, because you're coming close to the end of plant's life cycle, the leaves should have yellowed off and started to die.

Not every strain will have pistils that have turned orange or red or brown and receding when fully ripe. Sagarmatha's Matanuska Tundra is one of the strains where it is normal for most to all pistils to still be white and standing up/out when the plant is fully ripe. It is one of the strains that has proven that pistil color is not a truly accurate way to a judge ripeness as it is believed by most to be.
 
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